B/W Tokens

[FTW]

Zealous Persecution seems like one of the best anti-TNN cards while also doubling as one of the best anti-anti-TNN cards. White also just got a Brainstorm hate-bear. Brainstorm hate also seems really good in tandem with black discard and Dark "I-don't-draw" Confidant

Maybe something like this could be strong..

Updated:

//Spells: 10
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Thoughtseize
4 Swords to Plowshares

//Token stuff: 15
4 Bitterblossom
4 Intangible Virtue
4 Lingering Souls
2 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant

//Other creatures: 11
4 Dark Confidant
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Brimaz, King of Oreskos

//Artifacts: 4
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
2 Sensei's Divining Top

//20 lands:
4 Marsh Flats
2 Verdant Catacombs
2 Windswept Heath
4 Scrubland
1 Godless Shrine
2 Swamp
2 Plains
1 Karakas
2 Vault of the Archangel

//Sideboard:
4 Rest in Peace
3 Zealous Persecution
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Vindicate
1 Sword of Fire and Ice

[Freggle]

Playing Spirit without MOM seems wrong to me.

I say:

-4 Swords to Plowshares
+4 Mother of Runes

I know your playing tokens, but let your Jitte do the crowd control. ,,,and mom invalidate blockers / protect your guys.

[FTW]

Playing Spirit without MOM seems wrong to me.

I say:

-4 Swords to Plowshares
+4 Mother of Runes

I know your playing tokens, but let your Jitte do the crowd control. ,,,and mom invalidate blockers / protect your guys.

True.
Could cut DRS and green splash instead. More stable manabase for one. Also, DRS is sad face when boarding in 4 RiP.

[AlbyLegacy]

Playing Spirit without MOM seems wrong to me.

I say:

-4 Swords to Plowshares
+4 Mother of Runes

I know your playing tokens, but let your Jitte do the crowd control. ,,,and mom invalidate blockers / protect your guys.

Mother of runes does go balls deep versus a lot of creature decks.

[FTW]

-4 DRS
+4 Mom

SB:
-3 Abrupt Decay
+2 Vindicate
+1 Revoker

Manabase adjusted accordingly. Sticking to just BW. DRS sucked when boarding in RiP. And with Abrupt Decay instead of Vindicate, 0 answers to kill Batterskull or Jace. SoBaM over FaI because it makes tokens and still gives pro-TNN.

[trollking21]

//Spells: 8
4 Thoughtseize
4 Swords to Plowshares

//Token stuff: 14
4 Bitterblossom
4 Intangible Virtue
4 Lingering Souls
2 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad

//Other creatures: 14
4 Mother of Runes
4 Dark Confidant
4 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Spirit of the Labyrinth

//Artifacts: 6
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Body and Mind
1 Batterskull
3 Sensei's Divining Top

//18 lands:
4 Marsh Flats
2 Verdant Catacombs
2 Windswept Heath
4 Scrubland
1 Godless Shrine
2 Swamp
2 Plains
1 Karakas

//Sideboard:
4 Rest in Peace
3 Zealous Persecution
1 Spirit of the Labyrinth
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Vindicate


Why thoughtseize over cabal therapy? With blossom or lingering souls it's pretty easy to get a second painless cast.

[FTW]

Why thoughtseize over cabal therapy? With blossom or lingering souls it's pretty easy to get a second painless cast.

On like turn 3/4 yes. But on turn 1 you have much higher variance with your disruption, good chance of missing. So Cabal over Thoughtseize seems like it would make your combo matchup much worse. I don't want turn 3 discard against combo. Maybe some mix of Cabal and Thoughtseize (with >4 total) would be good.

[CaptainTwiddle]

On like turn 3/4 yes. But on turn 1 you have much higher variance with your disruption, good chance of missing. So Cabal over Thoughtseize seems like it would make your combo matchup much worse. I don't want turn 3 discard against combo. Maybe some mix of Cabal and Thoughtseize (with >4 total) would be good.

Therapy is just so good. I'd run the full 4, as they increase each other's efficacy (the first lets you see what to name with the second, and so on). I'd cut the 2 Sorin for Thoughtseize. So a 2/4 split between Seize/Therapy. Turn one Thoughtseize is generally better, but there are those times when you'll Thoughtseize someone and make them discard one of multiple copies of something making you wish you would have just cast Therapy (Brainstorm/Ponder in particular).

[trollking21]

I rather like sorin as a curve topper. He makes you grind really well dodges abrupt decay and lightning bolt. He can also hold the ground game while you get lingering souls and bitter blossom online. Also lifelink is fairly relevant especially if you have an anthem.

[FTW]

4 Therapy + 2 Seize main sounds good.

I don't want to cut Sorin just yet though. Good for grindy games. Does both anthem and token maker at once.

Need to play around and figure out where to make room.

[trollking21]

4 Therapy + 2 Seize main sounds good.

I don't want to cut Sorin just yet though. Good for grindy games. Does both anthem and token maker at once.

Need to play around and figure out where to make room.

Possibly 1 top? Possibly the third equipment? I agree sorin gives this deck a lot.

[H]

4 Therapy + 2 Seize main sounds good.

I don't want to cut Sorin just yet though. Good for grindy games. Does both anthem and token maker at once.

Need to play around and figure out where to make room.

Does Intangible Virtue do enough here? You actually have more non-token creatures than token producers. Virtue seems like a poor top deck when you need something that adds a threat to the board. Also, there are a ton of 2 drops here, perhaps adding to your 3 drops?

Maybe minus four Virtue, plus 2 Seize, plus two Glorious Anthem. As bad as Anthem seems, it pumps all your creatures, so can preemptively save your board from a Golgari Charm.

Also, why no Wasteland here? The mana curve seems pretty low and I feel like the deck could use a little more disruption.

[Zupponn]

Could be sexy if you could fit the Thopter-Sword combo in here. I'm not sure if the blue would be worth it though.

[BoBoCTiberius]

How has SoB&M been for you? It seems like the token you get from connecting isn't worth using the sword with protection that isn't that much more relevant that the others and filling the graveyard can backfire on you in a big way. It seems like you'd have to board it out in a lot of match ups. Is this the case?

[Ish]

This appears to me to be just a Dead Guy deck with some tokens. This idea caught my interest, but when I start making adjustments, like losing intangable virture, it just becomes Deag Guy.

My rule of thumb when innovating... make sure the new deck does somthing substatially different, and/or better than what already exists... or attack the meta.

I think this deck wants to attack the meta, but Dead Guy may fall in the very similiar and "better" rule.

I'm not bashing this deck, nor arguing against it's innovation. Just always have to develop ANY deck with a critical eye.

[Freggle]

There was also this thread (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?23293-W-b-Token-Mania!&highlight=token) a few years back.

[trollking21]

This appears to me to be just a Dead Guy deck with some tokens. This idea caught my interest, but when I start making adjustments, like losing intangable virture, it just becomes Deag Guy.

My rule of thumb when innovating... make sure the new deck does somthing substatially different, and/or better than what already exists... or attack the meta.

I think this deck wants to attack the meta, but Dead Guy may fall in the very similiar and "better" rule.

I'm not bashing this deck, nor arguing against it's innovation. Just always have to develop ANY deck with a critical eye.

I think you're right perhaps we go deeper? maybe something that gets more advantage out of the tokens

//Artifact (2)
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte

//Creature (11)
3 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
4 Dark Confidant
4 Stoneforge Mystic

//Enchantment (4)
4 Intangible Virtue

//Instant (4)
4 Swords to Plowshares

//Planeswalker (4)
2 Liliana of the Veil
2 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad

//Sorcery (10)
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Lingering Souls
2 Thoughtseize

//Tribal Enchantment (4)
4 Bitterblossom

//Land (20)
1 Karakas
4 Marsh Flats
3 Plains
4 Scrubland
2 Swamp
2 Vault of the Archangel
2 Verdant Catacombs
2 Windswept Heath


i dropped mom as we won't always have a high impact hatebear after she is dropped i also dropped most of the tops which let me put in a liliana of the veil. 4 may be the right number of her though as cabal therapy and lingering souls both play well with her. Brimaz may just be cool right now but if he attack he puts a lot of power on the board and 2/2's with vigilance seem okay. I also added vault of the archangel, as this enables you to block goyf or swing through with lifelink, but it may be just a touch to expensive mana wise.

[trollking21]

Humility could be sweet sideboard sideboard tech

[KazinMtg]

How about hero of bladehold over sorin? Also I feel like cabal therapy needs to be in this deck to make it viable. Too much synergy not to play 4.

[FTW]

I like the above changes, and Spirit has proven to be worse than anticipated. Changing my list in the OP.