Cheat on camera in SCG Open Baltimore, really?

[Mister M.]

Guys,

I just finished watching the 7th round match between Rudy Briksza and Todd Anderson from yesterday's SCG Legacy Open for the third time. I am pretty sure, during the his third turn of the second game of the match, Rudy Briksza makes a second land drop after wastelanding his opponent. Coverage can be found here http://www.twitch.tv/scglive/b/498351187 , watch from the 9:44:45 mark.

Does anybody else see it or are my eyes deceiving me?

[Erdvermampfa]

Without watching the video, I'm sure that you're not being deceived. Cheating isn't much of a surprise nowadays as it's common practice even in small scale tournaments.

[Kage]

No you're completely right.

The fact that he taps his dual drops the strand, and THEN plays his needle makes it quite shady.

[deviant]

Without watching the video, I'm sure that you're not being deceived. Cheating isn't much of a surprise nowadays as it's common practice even in small scale tournaments.

I think that is the same guy who only has to pay for tabernacle when it is not overly inconvinient for him.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

I can't jump to the mark for w/e the reason. But I did this thing several times. It's becasue Wasteland, esp. when used immediately and under stress, doesn't feel like land drop, but more like a 0 mana Stone Rain. Thankfully my opponents always catched this... maybe.

[Megadeus]

No you're completely right.

The fact that he taps his dual drops the strand, and THEN plays his needle makes it quite shady.

Yeah the way that he like put the strand and the needle in play in one swift motion makes it seem pretty damn sketch.

All this while he is tapping and untapping random lands and moving his permanents around afterwards and such.

[CabalTherapy]

Yeah the way that he like put the strand and the needle in play in one swift motion makes it seem pretty damn sketch.

All this while he is tapping and untapping random lands and moving his permanents around afterwards and such.


What a scumbag.

[Mister M.]

Yeah,

the fiddling with his lands and the swift motion to drop needle and strand almost simultaneously and immediately passing the turn thereafter is what caught my eye.

[Julian23]

Almost the same thing "happened" to my opponent at the GP Prague Legacy sideevent. He Wastelands me, then drops a land and passes.

I just looked him in the eyes. Kept looking. Starring. Eventually he acted as if he had forgotten about the Wasteland and put it back into his hand.

[Kayradis]

So, should we call that move the "Julian's Gaze Of Death"?

Im tired of cheaters.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

Almost the same thing "happened" to my opponent at the GP Prague Legacy sideevent. He Wastelands me, then drops a land and passes.

I just looked him in the eyes. Kept looking. Starring. Eventually he acted as if he had forgotten about the Wasteland and put it back into his hand.

So instead of informing the dude he made a mistake, or instead of calling the judge, you've ClintEastwooded the guy? :rolleyes:
Again: I made this mistake several times, it's not like no one ever made any mistake in game of MtG. When you're under stress and think about your next, and next and next moves, Wasteland may simply turn into a :0: Stone Rain. I'm not saying that the guy you played against wasn't cheater, neither do I defend the video-boy, but you acting like you acted makes me dislike the whole community more and more.

[Mister M.]

One thing to notice is, that honest mistakes on the SCG feature matches are very frequently caught by either the commentators, the table spotter or the opponent.

[Julian23]

So instead of informing the dude he made a mistake, or instead of calling the judge, you've ClintEastwooded the guy?

I just wanted to find out whether he was aware of what he just did. Also felt rather annoyed by his very hasty and nervous way of playing so I decided to literally give him a break.

I feel I'm still to lenient with judge calls at times.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

[QUOTE=Bed Decks Palyer;786411]So instead of informing the dude he made a mistake, or instead of calling the judge, you've ClintEastwooded the guy? /QUOTE]

I just wanted to find out whether he was aware of what he just did. I feel I'm still to lenient with judge calls at times.

But what would you do if he would just stare back? I think the proper way is to call judge immediatelly (see Bertoncini cause, we may only guess how many times he simply said "oh, sry, I'm stupid" and got away without warning), or at least quickly inform the guy he made mistake/cheated. (If you think he cheated, you should call the judge no matter what.) This way you gained nothing, only lost some time, which maybe didn't matter, but you can never know if you'll need those fifteen seconds.
Moreover, the dude has lost nothing, and he learnt nothing, except for the power of your deadly gaze... :smile: If he really cheated, he in fact got away without any harm. If he was just a newbie/stressed, he once again learnt nothing, and you weren't even nice (that's what the newbies MAY deserve) or strict (that's what MAY help to the newbies).

[Tammit67]

Posted two hours ago in Facebook:


Would like to apologize to everyone who saw my feature match against Todd and I would also like to apologize to him. After I wasted one of his lands I played a needle and then played a Flooded Strand. That was a huge mistake on my part and didn't realize it happened.

Regardless, I don't have a good excuse for it except that I was tired and nervous about the match up. I hope no one believes I did that on purpose. I'm sorry for my mistake. I will be more vigilant in the future. Make a mistake once, don't let it happen again.

If he was a cheater, he'd place more consistently. Rudy is a good guy.

To call someone a cheater is not something to take lightly.

[Purgatory]

I find it hard to believe he was cheating on purpose, it's not that well done, and it's something easily noticeable, and on camera at that. To think that anyone would attempt a new explore after Bertoncini is laughable, imo.

[Anen]

No you're completely right.

The fact that he taps his dual drops the strand, and THEN plays his needle makes it quite shady.

However he did not take advantage of this land drop. He did not use the land for this turn, and skipped a land drop next turn. Really sound like a mistake..

[bza]

However he did not take advantage of this land drop. He did not use the land for this turn, and skipped a land drop next turn. Really sound like a mistake..

Hey guys Rudy here. You are right I did play an extra land but it wasn't on purpose. I had less than 3 hours of sleep in the last two days and was very tired. As I'm sure many of you know magic can be a stressful game especially when you have many decision trees.

As some of you mentioned I fidddle a lot with my cards. This is something I did in every match I played and wasn't just in that match. I would suggest watching how I play first before you make assumptions about my motives.

I made a mistake and wasnt aware of it. In fact many peoe didn't including Todd and the table judge or the commentators.

I'm sorry I played an extra land it was an oversight and it isn't how I do things. I hope you can realize this was just a mistake and that not everyone can play perfectly all the time.

[Michael Keller]

What baffles me are the absolute ridiculously huge balls these scumbags who *purposely* cheat (like Bertoncini did) *on* camera. As if being watched by two or three judges isn't enough, you've got thousands of eyes on your every move at home.

It's actually mind blowing when you think about it. I mean, are these people really that dumb?

@Rudy: I'm not necessarily referring to you, but other people who are notorious for this. And as far as "forgiving" these people because they did their time: not good enough. I have no mercy or sympathy for individuals who cheat at anything. It's not only morally reprehensible, it's unhealthy for the integrity of the game and gives it a black eye.

[nedleeds]

Is this much different than the on camera City of Traitors == Better Mana Crypt stuff from a few months back? You are trying to judge intent. The answer to all of this is to call a judge on any GRV no matter how innocuous at any competitive REL event. This will

a) establish a pattern if the player is a cheater
b) scare some folks into tightening up their play if they aren't cheating
c) scare a cheater into not establishing a pattern
d) introduce an element of skill and concentration into the game

[Tammit67]

Hey guys Rudy here. You are right I did play an extra land but it wasn't on purpose. I had less than 3 hours of sleep in the last two days and was very tired. As I'm sure many of you know magic can be a stressful game especially when you have many decision trees.

As some of you mentioned I fiddle a lot with my cards. This is something I did in every match I played and wasn't just in that match. I would suggest watching how I play first before you make assumptions about my motives.

I made a mistake and wasn't aware of it. In fact many people didn't including Todd and the table judge or the commentators.

I'm sorry I played an extra land it was an oversight and it isn't how I do things. I hope you can realize this was just a mistake and that not everyone can play perfectly all the time.

Sorry you felt the need to make an account to defend yourself.

[CabalTherapy]

I made a mistake and wasnt aware of it. In fact many peoe didn't including Todd and the table judge or the commentators.


Todd and the table judge were very inattentive. Strange that none of them noticed the play.

/: SCG commentators... well, they talk a lot of...


//: Sorry for my "Scumbag" post.

[Mister M.]

Nobody called Rudy Briszka a cheater. Whether his illegal action was intentional or not cannot be cleared up in hindsight. To me, it looked suspicious, and especially when performed by a semi-pro in a competitive setting with some money on the line, I think awareness should be raised.


However he did not take advantage of this land drop. He did not use the land for this turn, and skipped a land drop next turn. Really sound like a mistake..

Regarding this ^, it allowed him to keep up countermagic plus DRS activation/ double DRS. Since double Entomb is a common play by Reanimator vs. a single DRS, it might very well have altered Todd's play. Whether this additional land drop won him the game, nobody can tell for sure. But loosing this game would have probably knocked Rudy out of Top 8 contention.

If it was an honest mistake, Rudy's public excuse on facebook certainly is a respectable move.

Edit: post seems a little displaced, cause so many persons (incl Rudy) posted while I typed.

[davelin]

Nobody called Rudy Briszka a cheater.

Besides the several folks on this thread?

[Tammit67]

Besides the several folks on this thread?


I'm sure that you're not being deceived. Cheating isn't much of a surprise nowadays as it's common practice even in small scale tournaments.


No you're completely right.

The fact that he taps his dual drops the strand, and THEN plays his needle makes it quite shady.


Yeah the way that he like put the strand and the needle in play in one swift motion makes it seem pretty damn sketch


What a scumbag.


Im tired of cheaters.


And the title of the thread

[Mister M.]

Besides the several folks on this thread?

Well, I think many people agreed, that the action in question could very well have been cheating, regardless whether it actually payed out or not.
Just for the sake of the argument, lets assume a player who actually cheated in a similar situation was caught in the act afterwards by video footage. What would you assume, that player's reaction would be like?

Again, I get that Rudy Briszka is in a rough spot and if it's all been accidental I am sorry for him. But I think, the only viable attempt to keep the game clean is keeping the community vigilant. And if Rudy is in the same boat regarding this, I hope he is not overly sour about us discussing this.

[Anusien]

Cheating, in Magic, has a specific definition. You have to do something illegal, you have to do it on purpose, and you have to do it to try and gain an advantage. Can we stop rushing to assume people who make mistakes are cheaters?

Or would it not be as much fun to have a thread called, "Nitpicky error that didn't affect the match at all on camera"?

[sipes1946]

if you make a "mistake" and you realize you made that "mistake" you should correct it in whatever way that would require...if you do not I would say that you have transitioned from "mistaken" to "cheating"

[davelin]

Well, I think many people agreed, that the action in question could very well have been cheating, regardless whether it actually payed out or not.

Sure, and some already had jumped to the conclusion that the action was deliberate i.e. cheating.


Just for the sake of the argument, lets assume a player who actually cheated in a similar situation was caught in the act afterwards by video footage. What would you assume, that player's reaction would be like?

Sure, and some folks on this thread seem to have flipped their stance given this "predictable" reaction as well FWiW.

[Anusien]

Any reaction a player could give to being confronted with an error they committed, other than "Yes I did it on purpose, please disqualify me now", could just as easily be indicative of an accidental mistake as intentional cheating.

Catching cheaters is hard.

[Parcher]

Besides, even if you didn't do it, I'm going to punish you, because I'm big and you're small, and I'm right and you're wrong, and there's nothing you can do about it. You're a liar and a cheat, and your father's a liar and a cheat! You're the most corrupt low-lifes in the history of civilization! Am I wrong? I'm never wrong.

Rudy's going into the Chokey!

[Phelix]

huge difference between making an illegal play, and cheating.

ive made many (waaaay to many) illegal plays. but i dont cheat.

[nedleeds]

The only real difference is the REL level. At professional isn't it just always a game loss?

[Tammit67]

The only real difference is the REL level. At professional isn't it just always a game loss?

No.

http://www.wizards.com/ContentResources/Wizards/WPN/Main/Documents/Magic_The_Gathering_Infraction_Procedure_Guide_PDF1.pdf

Out of curiosity, what leads you to believe that?

[Arsenal]

So this is a thing, but nobody is talking about Jeremy Hsu trying to get a freebie-win against Kurt Speiss game 1 by asking to see Kurt's sideboard the turn before losing, then tried to get another freebie-win game 2 by not understanding how big his own Goyf was the turn before losing?

[nedleeds]

I thought at professional the various infractions (detailed in the infractions guide) were more strictly enforced. I haven't played in enough Pro Tours to remember :|

http://www.wizards.com/ContentResources/Wizards/WPN/Main/Documents/Magic_The_Gathering_Infraction_Procedure_Guide_PDF1.pdf

If I ran the world I'd probably make it one mulligan at professional. Competitive it's 3.

"A third or subsequent Warning for a Game Play Error offense in the same category should be upgraded to a Game
Loss. For multi-day events, the penalty count for these infractions resets between days."

[nedleeds]

So this is a thing, but nobody is talking about Jeremy Hsu trying to get a freebie-win against Kurt Speiss game 1 by asking to see Kurt's sideboard the turn before losing, then tried to get another freebie-win game 2 by not understanding how big his own Goyf was the turn before losing?

That's just sad and desperate. I think anyone watching such a pitiful reach for a win recognizes that Jeremy values his "success" at MTG more than his personal pride. If he asked to count his opponent sideboard before each game 1 at competitive events I'd pay it no mind but I anticipate that isn't the case.

[Richard Cheese]

Hey guys Rudy here. You are right I did play an extra land but it wasn't on purpose. I had less than 3 hours of sleep in the last two days and was very tired. As I'm sure many of you know magic can be a stressful game especially when you have many decision trees.

As some of you mentioned I fidddle a lot with my cards. This is something I did in every match I played and wasn't just in that match. I would suggest watching how I play first before you make assumptions about my motives.

I made a mistake and wasnt aware of it. In fact many peoe didn't including Todd and the table judge or the commentators.

I'm sorry I played an extra land it was an oversight and it isn't how I do things. I hope you can realize this was just a mistake and that not everyone can play perfectly all the time.

Hey Rudy, welcome to The Source, where everyone is an expert on cheating, game design, economics, personal finance, self defense, statistics, and is generally smarter and better than you. Enjoy your stay, and be sure to stop by our Banlist thread for our perennial discussion of how Brainstorm is ruining the format but Survival can fix it.

[nedleeds]

It's actually Brainstorm that makes Survival over the top powerful. But yeah ... everything else Richard said.

[Megadeus]

I'd like to point out that I never actually Said he was a cheater. I said it seemed shady the way he did it, and regardless of intent, he did break the rules. I hate to make it seem like I'm implying that he is a cheater. I certainly have done this same thing before on accident. Luckily my opponents generally catch it. I'm just saying that from the knowledge that I had, which was seeing the extra land drop and the swift motion of doing multiple things at a time, it seemed shady.

[bza]

I'd like to point out that I never actually Said he was a cheater. I said it seemed shady the way he did it, and regardless of intent, he did break the rules. I hate to make it seem like I'm implying that he is a cheater. I certainly have done this same thing before on accident. Luckily my opponents generally catch it. I'm just saying that from the knowledge that I had, which was seeing the extra land drop and the swift motion of doing multiple things at a time, it seemed shady.

Saying I was shady and I did it quickly to hide it was a strong implication that I was cheating. As I said if you watch my play all match and the 2 others I played on camera I play the same way.

[Megadeus]

Well, doing multiple actions at once such as putting your land into play, plus playing needle, while naming a card does tend to let things slip by someone if they arent vigilant. and by moving things around so quickly it could be thought of as misdirection which is a pretty commonly used tactic in cheaters. I'm sorry that you took it as me actually saying you were intentionally doing what you did, but you broke one of the basic rules of magic and I was just pointing out my thoughts of how it seemed shady.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

Hey Rudy, welcome to The Source, where everyone is an expert on cheating, game design, economics, personal finance, self defense, statistics, and is generally smarter and better than you. Enjoy your stay, and be sure to stop by our Banlist thread for our perennial discussion of how Brainstorm is ruining the format but Survival can fix it.

I love you.

[Kayradis]

Baby Jesus said we can forgive to sinners.

Well, fella over there explained and since his name is not Bertonchini (you know that Judas middle name was Bertonchini? Strange eh!) and I'm all in about the "shit happens" factor.

You may go in peace.

[Mr. Froggy]

Damn cheaters!

The way he played Needle and Strand simultaneously was obviously misdirection.

[danyul]

You should have read the previous...1 other page before you commented.

[Lemnear]

You should have read the previous...1 other page before you commented.

Daniel, if people would do that, we had only 50% of posts on TheSource and I would not have become such an ass responding to the ever same bullshit over and over again

[danyul]

LoL that's true. And then I would have nothing to read while at work.

[Fizzeler]

Posted two hours ago in Facebook:



If he was a cheater, he'd place more consistently. Rudy is a good guy.

To call someone a cheater is not something to take lightly.

I will support the good guy argument and fatigue + stress causes minor oversights like that, in the same tournament I almost made the exact play round 2, my opponent pointed it out after a second and I agreed and put the land back in my hand

[mishima_kazuya]

I can confirm this.

I played past in flames incorrectly last year en route to an SCG open top 8.
I might have casted Dark Rituals and Brainstorms twice from my hand after resolving Past in Flames to beat a few opponents. I also did not realize I cheated until a few weaks later

[HammafistRoob]

I've done the exact same thing before without realizing it until my opponent pointed it out, and I wasn't even tired and completely comfortable. It sometimes can happen when you immediately Waste them on your turn and then think about 6 different lines before doing anything.

Making land drops in your 2nd main has many advantages, including terminating this error from occurring. It just sucks that nobody caught it, intentional or not.

[lordofthepit]

Hey guys Rudy here. You are right I did play an extra land but it wasn't on purpose. I had less than 3 hours of sleep in the last two days and was very tired. As I'm sure many of you know magic can be a stressful game especially when you have many decision trees.

As some of you mentioned I fidddle a lot with my cards. This is something I did in every match I played and wasn't just in that match. I would suggest watching how I play first before you make assumptions about my motives.

I made a mistake and wasnt aware of it. In fact many peoe didn't including Todd and the table judge or the commentators.

I'm sorry I played an extra land it was an oversight and it isn't how I do things. I hope you can realize this was just a mistake and that not everyone can play perfectly all the time.

You have the benefit of the doubt from me.

I've played a lot of matches and made many game state violations unintentionally, as well as sitting across from a player committing such violations. Sometimes it's caught right away. Other times, not until several turns later, or even after the game is long over. There are even many times when my opponent or I will forget to do something beneficial (draw off Ponder or Probe), or other times where the error is largely irrelevant (creature moved to the graveyard after getting hit with Swords to Plowshares). And I'm sure there are many instances where this is not caught. I have seen this happen across from me with all sorts of players, ranging from novices to even Gold level pros.

When I mess up and catch it immediately, I'll try the best to rectify the situation in a "fair way" if possible at a casual setting. I've conceded after realizing I Brainstormed with a Ponder (and the same opponent has done likewise when done against me), and I've offered to replay a game that I won after we realized afterwards that my Jitte-wielding creature should have died as a result of combat damage, even though I was very far ahead in the game. If possible, I think play mistakes regarding game state should be punished, even if cheating wasn't the intention; unfortunately, it's hard to enforce such punishment when no one realizes a mistake was made.

The absolute worst thing that I can imagine happening to me in a Magic game is not making an egregious punt on camera, but messing up in a way that will cause you to be labeled as a cheat. My very first camera match, I happened to get paired against a friend who was borrowing my deck (and the announcers mentioned that). In the late game, I used a Knight of the Reliquary activation without sacrificing a land, because I decided to float and then mentally forgot to move it to the graveyard. That land was absolutely irrelevant to the game state, and neither of us (nor the announcers) caught the mistake. After I won the match, I checked Twitter to see if there were any comments, and several people pointed out that I forgot to sacrifice the land.

Fortunately, because the announcers had already mentioned that I was paired against a friend, most people realized I didn't intentionally do this, but a few dimwits still labeled me a cheater. Here's a hint: if someone makes a mistake on camera, they're probably not doing it intentionally, especially against a friend, unless they're an absolute psychopath. Nonetheless, I felt really bad, and although I couldn't rewind the game state and offer to "fix" everything or receive some sort of punishment, the mistake tilted me enough that I ended up that I punted my way out of the tournament in the next few rounds. It was the only time I ever finished outside the money at SCG, which I'm completely fine with: in a way, I feel as though Justice punished me appropriately for messing up, even though I didn't do so on purpose.

[Kayradis]

Now that everybody shared their (useless and misinformed) opinion, can we talk about something constructive?
The poor fella screwed himself so hard he could have stabbed himself in the face on camera and we would have heard less whining.

Just fucking get over it.

[Richard Cheese]

Can this become a discussion on that move where people constantly shuffle their hand while they play. I know some of you do that and I'd love to hear if there's a reason or it's a nervous tick or what.

[DragoFireheart]

Can this become a discussion on that move where people constantly shuffle their hand while they play. I know some of you do that and I'd love to hear if there's a reason or it's a nervous tick or what.

Supposedly it increases the effectiveness of your counterspells and removal. Something about making the spell you stop/destroy causing the other player to rage hard and then make mistakes.

Or maybe just shuffling your hand is what causes them to rage. I do not know.

[Holly]

Can this become a discussion on that move where people constantly shuffle their hand while they play. I know some of you do that and I'd love to hear if there's a reason or it's a nervous tick or what.

A pro started with that very loudly (was it Finkel?).
A pro does it. You do it, you become a pro.
Make sense doesnt it?

Well that.. and nervous tick.. and some people claim it helpes them thinking.. to hide information what you drew before you play a land.. to distract the opponent..

I do it, too. Though I try to stop it if I catch myself. Its a bad habbit.

[bza]

Can this become a discussion on that move where people constantly shuffle their hand while they play. I know some of you do that and I'd love to hear if there's a reason or it's a nervous tick or what.

I shuffle my hand mostly because I have a lot of nervous tics and it helps me focus. In a format like legacy and now standard where discard is prominent, shuffling your hand can prevent your opponent from figuring out what you drew or memorizing your hand. You can also do this when they have no discard as you can feign whether or not you are land light or heavy or what you drew.

[lordofthepit]

Can this become a discussion on that move where people constantly shuffle their hand while they play. I know some of you do that and I'd love to hear if there's a reason or it's a nervous tick or what.

I've done that even before I knew pros do it.

I do it so that my opponents have a harder time reading what's in my hand. A lot of players will peel a land off the top of the deck on turn 2 and play it immediately. That's a good sign that I should just Wasteland you even if I have no action.

[danyul]

I'll admit it. I shuffle my hand around because it makes me feel like a cool kid. Often I'm doing it and just thinking about shit I have to do at home, like laundry or cooking or whatever. The hand-shuffling is like any other affectation - half of it is for style points, the other half is for bluffing I guess.

Also you can tell how long somebody has played by the way they handle their cards. Some guys are intimidating with the way they handle their shit. Like I know I'm gonna lose already because of how smoothly this guy shuffles and draws. That's some magician shit.

By the same token, I know I have the upper hand if my opponent shuffles and draws with all the dexterity of Edward Scissorhands.

I'm not sure what it all means, but it certainly means something.

[civet five]

In my last 2 tourneys I've committed stupid infractions that can only be chalked up to nervousness+dumbassery. In 1 case I caught it, in the other my opponent caught it.

In one case, I was using Fetch/Top/Fetch to see extra cards, and accidentally looked at 4 cards before cracking my first fetch. Obviously not good, and called a judge on myself. The other time, I Pondered and forgot to actually draw the card after shuffling (it was turn 1, i just passed after shuffling). This was easy to rectify. I've actually had this issue playing TurboLand also, where its *very* easy to lose track of land drops with Exploration, especially under the old land drop rules (where you could bounce and recast Exploration for additional land drops).

Luckily most mistakes are accidental in nature and the person really feels bad about it. But I also think that we as a community need to feel comfortable calling judges no matter what. As soon as we think of calling judges as tattle-tailing, the cheaters win. Judges are there to protect the integrity of the game and to find fair solutions to stupid things like the mistakes I list above.

[joemauer]

I've done that even before I knew pros do it.

I do it so that my opponents have a harder time reading what's in my hand. A lot of players will peel a land off the top of the deck on turn 2 and play it immediately. That's a good sign that I should just Wasteland you even if I have no action.

Heh, I almost always play a land that I immediately drew just to make it look like I desperately needed the land.

I have done the same with casting cards that I draw. I will let out a sigh of relief aftering drawing a StP, Bolt, or Whatever and immediately cast the card, irregardless of how many more copies are already in my hand.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

I Kibler-shuffle so that I may forgot to draw from Ponder and then may bitch how this format sucks cause I don't win.

I think I'll start to call judges no matte what. If nothing happened, they will just smile and go away. If something happened, they will solve the situation and even if this means I'll lose the game becasue of some mistake, at least I'll learn something.

[Deviruchi]

Can this become a discussion on that move where people constantly shuffle their hand while they play. I know some of you do that and I'd love to hear if there's a reason or it's a nervous tick or what.

I don't do that often because it distracts me. Only to hide information what I could have drawn or something like that but I do this quietly, not madly and once per need. And it scares my opponents that I'm so focus, don't shuffle like a psycho / Kibler fan. This attitude helps me a lot especially that I only play combo decks now. I don't understand how "shuffle, look, shuffle, look, shuffle, look at the board, shuffle, look" can help anyone to make a better decission in a limited time period. To some extend I can understand that it can help SOME players but this habit makes a mtg coverage a show I can not stand sometimes.

@bza

It was nice of you that you apologized for what you did. The best thing you could have done. I hope you won't have a reason to repeat that.

[Richard Cheese]

Generally when I play against people that infini-shuffle their hand, it's nerve wracking and makes me feel like they're getting impatient with me, so I generally force myself to slow down as a result. Of course, in my experience it's usually the guys that play fastest that do it. I'm the complete opposite, and will often just set my hand down during my opponent's turn.

[Lemnear]

http://www.quickmeme.com/img/35/35f7664c6e37d7f192f293fd79bcb301688ced76fd6320434c30e1721fe8495b.jpg

http://www.quickmeme.com/img/4b/4b9be563df420b0d1a34b7dd2af25627751536f39cf3d4af500f3d97116a4e9b.jpg