Flash Explorer

[FatPow]

So I don't know if this has been done before, but this is definitely a fun deck to play. I essentially wanted to play Dismiss in a Veteran Explorer deck, but to play with that card in a standard Nic-Fit style deck you really have to gamble on when you tap out and when you don't. The solution: be completely reactive, have all your spells other than Pernicious Deed come in at instant speed on their end step, so you leave up counter-magic at all times. It's a blast to play. Here's my initial list but feel free to make suggestions to make this deck better! It's definitely in the development stages. Once the opponent gets the hang of what you're doing, it's almost even worse for them, seeing all that open mana during their turn every turn. Serious mind games.


1 Underground Sea
2 Bayou
4 Tropical Island
2 Island
1 Swamp
2 Forest
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Verdant Catacombs

4 Cabal Therapy
4 Brainstorm
4 Veteran Explorer
4 Counterspell
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder
4 Pernicious Deed
1 Vendilion Clique
4 Dismiss
4 Drudge Reavers
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
4 Draining Whelk
2 Havenwood Wurm


Sideboard:


2 Golgari Charm
2 Scavenging Ooze
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Krosan Grip
1 Arcane Laboratory
2 Notion Thief
1 Bow of Nylea

[Megadeus]

Mystic Snake anyone? You could realistically play the snake here. Hell, get greddy, play 4 colors, and Restoration Angel your Mystic Snake for infinite value.

[Wanderlust]

Cool! This idea screams for Mystic Snake! Also, I'd consider adding more Vendilion Cliques. Clique and Venser are very nice with Karakas, it may be worth fitting one in. I think 4 Pernicious Deed is too many, and 4 Draining Whelk too. Drudge Reavers and Havenwood Wurm seem loose, I'm sure there are better options. Have you considered Spellstutter Sprite?

EDIT: Megadeus beat me to Mystic Snake :-)

[FatPow]

Cool! This idea screams for Mystic Snake! Also, I'd consider adding more Vendilion Cliques. Clique and Venser are very nice with Karakas, it may be worth fitting one in. I think 4 Pernicious Deed is too many, and 4 Draining Whelk too. Drudge Reavers and Havenwood Wurm seem loose, I'm sure there are better options. Have you considered Spellstutter Sprite?

EDIT: Megadeus beat me to Mystic Snake :-)

Thanks for the feedback. I don't know if I like Mystic Snake, it's just a 2/2 with no evasion, Draining Whelk on the other hand is a total blowout even against a 2 mana spell. The Drudge Reaver do the brunt of the work defending against aggro, and putting the pressure on combo to actually cast something to get Drained, I like them. Vendilion Clique is fragile and we want to Drain them anyway, but it does create huge value with Cabal Therapy, maybe there should be 3. It's too bad they die to Pernicious Deed. I think there need to be 4 Deed since we have no room for Abrupt Decay, and our counterspells don't hold off aggro. Maybe we can swap 1 Deed for 1 Abrupt Decay, but our counterspells already trade on single cards, and they can hit any casting cost. I'm definitely okay with cutting the Havenwood Wurm to 1, if not altogether. It is true you don't want to be stuck with multiple Draining Whelk in your hand, maybe we can cut to 3. I found one more good card that's for sure a one-of in this deck: Wydwen, the Biting Gale. Also, for the sideboard, Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir is strong against opponents with pyroblasts and force of wills. I don't know about including a white splash, 4 colors is too many for me. I thought about Spellstutter Sprite but I think you need a full on Faerie deck with Bitterblossom for them to work. Our deck has the 6 mana for Draining Whelk available, without a swarm of faeries, so using 2 mana on Spellstutter would mean we wouldn't need the Veteran Explorers and Sakura-Tribe Elders, we'd switch them for Bitterblossoms, and we'd take out all our high casting cost stuff, and remove Pernicious Deed altogether for Abrupt Decay, but I think that's a different deck.

I'm excited about this deck! I'll try it out on tonight's online daily and report back.

[Tao]

I like the Flash idea and only tapping a bit mana during our turn, it is pretty cool. But your creature choices seem suboptimal. I don't think Drudge Reavers or Havenwood Wurm are playable cards. Draining Whelk is better but also not good enough I think. But I do like the idea of a Flash deck in general, I think it might actually work. A few quick ideas:

- Brainstorm: Best card in the format and an Instant. Great in the deck, too, to get rid off things like Therapy, Explorer or Deeds that you don't need in that particular situation. Finding Therapy, Counterspell and Land and shuffling away 2 Deeds against Sneak and Show is pretty good I heard.
- Abrupt Decay: Great Instant, incolor, and it lets you use your mana when your opponent didn't play a spell you needed to counter.
- Snapcaster Mage. Good with Counterspell, Abrupt Decay and Brainstorm. Can be sacced to Therapy afterwards if you draw more Therapies than Explorers.
- 2-3 Venser, 2-3 Cliques and 2 Riptide Laboratories: Laboratory with Snapcaster, Clique or Venser is a nice mana sink that you can use EoT and that gives you good value.
- More Basic lands: with only 5 basics and a long-term game plan you run out of them too quickly. I would suggest 7 Basics.

[from Cairo]

Green Sun's Zenith seems better than Sakura-Tribe Elder as Explorers 5+. Coiling Oracle could do something too, especially in conjunction with Brainstorm. Snapcaster would be a good option with a few more Instants/Sorceries to use - Thoughtseize, Gitaxian Probe, Abrupt Decay or Ponder, maybe?

I agree there should be more basics. Nic Fit can usually afford 3-4 Duals with 6-9 Fetches and the rest Basics, give or take a utility land.

The Wurms and Skeletons seem horribly inefficient even with Flash. I agree with Megadeus that dipping into White gives you much better options to Flash in - Restoration Angel or Advent of the Wurm.

[FatPow]

Points taken Tao. How about this?


1 Underground Sea
1 Bayou
2 Tropical Island
3 Island
1 Swamp
3 Forest
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Riptide Laboratory

4 Veteran Explorer
3 Sakura-Tribe Elder
4 Snapcaster Mage
3 Vendilion Clique
2 Venser, Shaper Savant
3 Draining Whelk

4 Cabal Therapy
4 Brainstorm
3 Counterspell
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Dismiss
3 Abrupt Decay


Sideboard:


2 Golgari Charm
2 Scavenging Ooze
3 Krosan Grip
4 Flusterstorm
1 Arcane Laboratory
2 Notion Thief
1 Bow of Nylea
[/QUOTE]

[clavio]

What is the advantage of dismiss over cryptic command?

[Darkenslight]

What is the advantage of dismiss over cryptic command?

Colored costs? Cryptic is triple-blue, which means either adjusting the manabase considerably, or going straight UG. I'd actually consider Explore over STEve.

The biggest thing you want with the Explorer, is sacrifice effects. Therapy alone isn't really enough, but Mask of the Mimic seems quite comical. 1-cost Blue instant that can potentiaslly fetch another Explorer out. OR Primal Growth with a much more basic-heavy land base; that would allow you to play Back to Basics as a tempo card.

[FTW]

The biggest thing you want with the Explorer, is sacrifice effects. Therapy alone isn't really enough, but Mask of the Mimic seems quite comical. 1-cost Blue instant that can potentiaslly fetch another Explorer out.

I don't think it works the way you want. You sacrifice Explorer 1 to pay the cost, then put it on the stack and select targets. You would need a 2nd unused Explorer for it to find one. If you have 2 Explorers durdling around in such a mana-hungry deck, you've probably already lost. ANd otherwise, it can't fetch explorer.

HOWEVER, it can fetch Mystic Snakes and Spellstutter Sprites and Snapcaster Mages.

U: Counter target spell seems good

[Zupponn]

Mystic Genesis may be a little costly, but it fits the theme.

[Vacrix]

Your turn 2 lines of play are incredibly weak unless you get a really good hand. I'd make more room so that you can quickly solidify a board position with more powerful cards at 1cc particularly. Brainstorm isn't something you want to play turn 1, usually.. and Explorer/Therapy isn't enough to insure that you will be set up in time to stop combo's 'turn'.

[apple713]

Thanks for the feedback. I don't know if I like Mystic Snake, it's just a 2/2 with no evasion, Draining Whelk on the other hand is a total blowout even against a 2 mana spell. The Drudge Reaver do the brunt of the work defending against aggro, and putting the pressure on combo to actually cast something to get Drained, I like them. Vendilion Clique is fragile and we want to Drain them anyway, but it does create huge value with Cabal Therapy, maybe there should be 3. It's too bad they die to Pernicious Deed. I think there need to be 4 Deed since we have no room for Abrupt Decay, and our counterspells don't hold off aggro. Maybe we can swap 1 Deed for 1 Abrupt Decay, but our counterspells already trade on single cards, and they can hit any casting cost. I'm definitely okay with cutting the Havenwood Wurm to 1, if not altogether. It is true you don't want to be stuck with multiple Draining Whelk in your hand, maybe we can cut to 3. I found one more good card that's for sure a one-of in this deck: Wydwen, the Biting Gale. Also, for the sideboard, Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir is strong against opponents with pyroblasts and force of wills. I don't know about including a white splash, 4 colors is too many for me. I thought about Spellstutter Sprite but I think you need a full on Faerie deck with Bitterblossom for them to work. Our deck has the 6 mana for Draining Whelk available, without a swarm of faeries, so using 2 mana on Spellstutter would mean we wouldn't need the Veteran Explorers and Sakura-Tribe Elders, we'd switch them for Bitterblossoms, and we'd take out all our high casting cost stuff, and remove Pernicious Deed altogether for Abrupt Decay, but I think that's a different deck.

I'm excited about this deck! I'll try it out on tonight's online daily and report back.



bro, you can't really expect to play cards that expensive (CMC wise) and live to cast more than one. people are dropping griselbrands on t1 and you wanna hard cast a draining whelk?

I was very supportive of your deck idea until you dismissed Mystic Snake.... Instead of using dismiss as your inspiration, it should be mystic snake. Oh, and the deck screams for prophet of krux or whatever. There is also a GU mana drain for 4 mana.


maybe your post will get more attention in the Cavius-Casual-and-Budget-Forum (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?56-Cavius-Casual-and-Budget-Forum)

[CaptainTwiddle]

Mystic Genesis may be a little costly, but it fits the theme.

Mystic Genesis and Draining Whelk suffer from the same problems: a) They cost a lot of mana, and b) The reward isn't worth the investment, as the average cost of spell being cast in Legacy is something like 1.75 mana. That means you're paying 5-6 mana for what might be a 3/3.

I do kind of like the idea of a Flash deck in Legacy. I hadn't really thought about using the Explorer + Therapy engine in that strategy before though. I'm inclined to think that Bant is where you'd want to be for such a strategy, as U and G are a given and W gives you access to Swords to Plowshares (prime Snapcaster target), Restoration Angel, and powerful sideboard options. Perhaps a four color build of UGwb would work, with black being primarily for Cabal Therapy. I'm going to brew on this and come back with a list once I've given it some more thought.

[FatPow]

Mystic Genesis and Draining Whelk suffer from the same problems: a) They cost a lot of mana, and b) The reward isn't worth the investment, as the average cost of spell being cast in Legacy is something like 1.75 mana. That means you're paying 5-6 mana for what might be a 3/3.

I do kind of like the idea of a Flash deck in Legacy. I hadn't really thought about using the Explorer + Therapy engine in that strategy before though. I'm inclined to think that Bant is where you'd want to be for such a strategy, as U and G are a given and W gives you access to Swords to Plowshares (prime Snapcaster target), Restoration Angel, and powerful sideboard options. Perhaps a four color build of UGwb would work, with black being primarily for Cabal Therapy. I'm going to brew on this and come back with a list once I've given it some more thought.

Riptide Laboratory is no Karakas. I'm now a bant and Mystic Snake convert. Here's what I've been testing, with pretty good results in tournament practice:


1 Savannah
1 Tundra
3 Tropical Island
1 Plains
2 Island
2 Forest
2 Karakas
4 Windswept Heath
4 Misty Rainforest

4 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
3 Wolfir Avenger
4 Mystic Snake
3 Stonecloaker
4 Restoration Angel
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder
3 Vendilion Clique

1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
4 Aether Vial



Sideboard:


4 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Gaddock Teeg
2 Venser, Shaper Savant
3 Veteran Explorer
4 Krosan Grip

[Qweerios]

I think the strength of a Flash deck would lie in its versatility. Having all of your spells at instant speed gives you control over the stack. However, you need to stabilize the board before you try and contain your opponent with 2+ CMC cards. Cards like Cryptic Command are worth leaving mana open for because you can get value out of them even if your opponent doesn't cast a spell for you to counter (Bounce + Draw). IMO, You can't really play a Flash deck without Snapcaster Mage. Other interesting and versatile cards for a Bant deck include:


Selesnya Charm
Bant Charm
Advent of the Wurm
Far // Away


I think a card like Miscalculation would be quite valuable as well because it it reliable by T2 and will counter anything while also sinking unused EoT mana with its cycling ability. Cycling a Misdirection also makes it available as a Snapcaster target.

Also, leaving your mana open early is very important if you intend on countering you opponent's spells throughout the game. For this reason I suggest using ramp with lower initial cost like Search for Tomorrow and Noble Hierarch.

Force of Will is another great card to have in this kind of deck for the simple reason that it you will eventually be able to hardcast it. This deck also needs all the available early disruption is can get because of its slow nature.

[Holly]

If I were to play a Flash-List I'm not sure green is where I want to be.
Sure you get Mystic Snake (and who doesn't love her?) but that's about it. Most other green flash cards are vastly underpowered. Wolfir Avenger? 3 mana 3/3? Advent of the Wurm is okay I guess..but cmc 4 for a Vanilla 5/5 isn't even a standard staple.

I'd probably would go down a more controllish-list with a creature base of:
4 Spellstutter
4 Snapcaster
2-3 Cliques
2-3 Resto Angels
1-2 Venser

These are not enough creatures for Vial so I'd probably leave that out, Spell Snare is needed since we're passing in our first turn most likely.

4 Spell Snare
4 Force of Will
Some number of Spell Pierce/Counterspell.
4 Brainstorm
4 StP
We could no splash Red to get Bolt for a faster clock & more removal. Red also gives us Sulfur Elemental in our sideboard.

So let's look:
4 Spellstutter,
4 Snapcaster
3 Cliques
3 Resto
1 Venser

4 Snare
4 Force
4 Brainstorm
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Lightning Bolt

= 35 cards.
You'll probably want around 21-22 lands so you'll still have 3 slots for Pierce/Counterspell/Snap or if you really want it Cryptic Command.
Sideboard: Some amount of REB's/Pyros, Sulfur Elementals, Wear/Tear.. hell you could even play Plumeveil since it blocks Mungos/Delvers and is bolt proof. Submerge if you want more tempo play.
Oh another good reason for red? Flash Gordon wears red.

[FatPow]

I agree that Wolfir Avenger is not powerful enough, and also he's double green which messes up the mana base. Also I agree on Noble Hierarch instead of Sakura-Tribe Elder. I didn't like Snapcaster when I tried him, especially with Riptide Laboratory. It's just too mana intensive, and you have to lose creature slots to instant slots. How about this?


1 Savannah
2 Tundra
2 Tropical Island
1 Plains
3 Island
1 Forest
2 Karakas
4 Windswept Heath
4 Misty Rainforest

4 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
4 Mystic Snake
2 Stonecloaker
4 Restoration Angel
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Vendilion Clique
2 Gaddock Teeg
2 Ethersworn Canonist

1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
4 Aether Vial



Sideboard:


2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Sylvan Library
2 Venser, Shaper Savant
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Rest in Peace
4 Krosan Grip

[Holly]

20 lands seems a tad low even with ponder, vial und hierach.. you have a really high curve with all those 4 drops.

How've been the sideboarded Explorers? You have no sac outlet so they're only good as blockers, don't know if thats good enough.

And how good are the stonecloaks? The second ability only really counts versus Reanimator and maybe Punishing Fire, have you thought about mindcensor in those slots?

[FatPow]

It's true I'm up to 21 lands now. The explorers are there for smallpox+liliana decks, where hierarch does pretty poorly. The Stonecloaks are very situational, and too risky to cast a lot of the time, I moved them to the board mainly for Life From the Loam decks. I found that Force of Will is really very good in this deck, and much more general purpose than Ethersworn and Gaddock Teeg, and that warrants putting in more blue cards, so Spellstutter is the replacement for some Ponders and Stonecloaks for now with the idea being that their purpose is to tag brainstorms and thoughtseizes, get sacrificed to edict effects, and possibly get equipped. Maybe these could be Miscalculation as pointed out earlier.



1 Savannah
2 Tundra
2 Tropical Island
1 Plains
3 Island
2 Forest
2 Karakas
4 Windswept Heath
4 Misty Rainforest

4 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
4 Mystic Snake
4 Restoration Angel
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Vendilion Clique
4 Spellstutter Sprite


1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Ponder
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Aether Vial



Sideboard:


1 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Stonecloaker
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Rest in Peace
4 Krosan Grip

[CaptainTwiddle]

It's true I'm up to 21 lands now. The explorers are there for smallpox+liliana decks, where hierarch does pretty poorly. The Stonecloaks are very situational, and too risky to cast a lot of the time, I moved them to the board mainly for Life From the Loam decks. I found that Force of Will is really very good in this deck, and much more general purpose than Ethersworn and Gaddock Teeg, and that warrants putting in more blue cards, so Spellstutter is the replacement for some Ponders and Stonecloaks for now with the idea being that their purpose is to tag brainstorms and thoughtseizes, get sacrificed to edict effects, and possibly get equipped. Maybe these could be Miscalculation as pointed out earlier.



1 Savannah
2 Tundra
2 Tropical Island
1 Plains
3 Island
2 Forest
2 Karakas
4 Windswept Heath
4 Misty Rainforest

4 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
4 Mystic Snake
4 Restoration Angel
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Vendilion Clique
4 Spellstutter Sprite


1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Ponder
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Aether Vial



Sideboard:


1 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Stonecloaker
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Rest in Peace
4 Krosan Grip


While I love all the cards in this list, there are a lot of 4 drops. With the inclusion of the Stoneforge package, I kind of have to wonder if you shouldn't just be playing True-Name Nemeis. You could probably trim a few Restos and Snakes for them. At that point, the deck kind of reminds me of the Bant deck that Sam Black was playing awhile back, but with a "flash" component instead of a Green Sun's Zenith package.

[FatPow]

While I love all the cards in this list, there are a lot of 4 drops. With the inclusion of the Stoneforge package, I kind of have to wonder if you shouldn't just be playing True-Name Nemeis. You could probably trim a few Restos and Snakes for them. At that point, the deck kind of reminds me of the Bant deck that Sam Black was playing awhile back, but with a "flash" component instead of a Green Sun's Zenith package.

It's true the mana curve is normal except for a spike at 4, but I think that works out since you can hold off until your vial hits 4, then you have a lot of consistency and options. Also vialing in a Noble Hierarch at turn 2 opponent's end step gets you to 4 mana, with a Stoneforge vial available. You can vial in the Stoneforge, and have Mystic Snake or Restoration Angel backup. Restoration Angel to save a Stoneforge that fetched Batterskull gets you the Sword of Fire and Ice as a bonus.

You might be right about True-Name with equipment, but he's not flash and he's vulnerable to all the -1/-1 hate that's out there now.

[FatPow]

With Spirit of the Labyrinth incoming I think it's time that you either adapt or join in on it.


Here's a potential list:


2 Savannah
2 Tundra
2 Tropical Island
2 Island
2 Forest
1 Plains
1 Karakas
1 Flooded Strand
4 Windswept Heath
4 Misty Rainforest

4 Spirit of the Labyrinth
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Noble Hierarch
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
4 Mystic Snake
3 Restoration Angel
3 Vendilion Clique

3 Force of Will
4 Dream Fracture
4 Aether Vial
2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Batterskull



Sideboard:


1 Sword of War and Peace
4 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Rest in Peace
3 Veteran Explorer
3 Krosan Grip