View Full Version : BUG Control: A New Twist on an Old Favorite
Mansoor
02-17-2014, 12:21 AM
BUG Control was a deck that was a favorite among many players, to include many Pro level players, because it leveraged their ability to outplay the opponent and grind them out over longer games. The deck became less appealing as other fair decks would pull this deck in to the draw bracket, as its former way to win was only to grind the opponent out with Life From the Loam and Manlands or Jace Ultimate.
After this weekends results of GP Paris and the overwhelming success of the fair decks in its Top 8, it seems that BUG has once again returned to a place where it can be dominant again. The only question now is what keeps it out of the draw bracket? Well, thanks to the new interaction of Dark Depths and Thespian Stage we can now close the game much more quickly.
Below is the list I will be testing for SCG Open Atlanta in a few weeks:
1 Dark Depths
1 Thespian Stage
1 Wasteland
1 Forest
1 Swamp
2 Island
1 Bayou
3 Tropical Island
4 Underground Sea
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta
3 Snapcaster Mage
4 Deathrite Shaman
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Liliana of the Veil
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize
3 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
2 Ponder
1 Night of Souls' Betrayal
1 Life from the Loam
1 Intuition
1 Maelstrom Pulse
4 Abrupt Decay
2 Toxic Deluge
2 Counterspell
SB:
1 Notion Thief
1 Zur's Weirding
1 Force of Will
1 Raven's Crime
1 Pithing Needle
1 Flusterstorm
1 Dread of Night
1 Liliana of the Veil
1 Vendilion Clique
2 Spell Pierce
2 Golgari Charm
2 Surgical Extraction
We retain many of the same elements as the BUG Landstills of old, but no longer have need for Standstill or manlands that made our mana worse. We can now just kill them from 20 with ease! The Intuition acts as the second Life From the Loam, as well as a tutor for the entire combo, or answer for current board state.
As I move forward in testing and come up with more results I will be sure to share them here. If you have any input or prior experience with decks of this type in the past, feel free to input your ideas on the list and possible improvements.
Valtrix
02-17-2014, 01:05 AM
Your direction is similar to a direction that I've been considering for BUG control. As such, I'll share my list and some thoughts :)
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
3 Intuition
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Life from the Loam
4 Abrupt Decay
3 Counterbalance
2 Counterspell
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Innocent Blood
1 Drop of Honey
//24 Land (2 non-mana producing)
1 Dark Depths
1 Maze of Ith
1 Thespian's Stage
4 Island
4 Polluted Delta
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Swamp
2 Tropical Island
1 Bayou
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Underground Sea
SB: 3 Thoughtseize
SB: 3 Flusterstorm
SB: 2 Counterspell
SB: 1 Dread of Night
SB: 3 Deathrite Shaman
SB: 1 Drop of Honey
SB: 2 Vendilion Clique
First, no Sensei's Divining Top in a control deck like this is criminal! It's basically one of the best cards to generate advantage over time in a control deck, even if you're not running miracles to "abuse it more." Top also greatly improves your Liliana's, letting you play from the top three if your deck. I also use counterbalance since I use top. Obviously if you don't have top you won't run balance.
I really like Stage/Depths. The problem? It's hard to setup normally. I would recommend ramping up the number of Intuitions to 3. I used intuition a lot back many years ago in the days of countertop with goyfs as win-cons, and it was always fantastic even getting ruins + engineered explosives. Now that you can just setup a way to win the game I think it's power is massively improved. What I like about Intuition is that it's a very flexible card--playing control in the early game and then later you can cash it in to win the game. Plus, it's blue, which is awesome. It's only clunky if you have too many other clunky cards, but I think it's definitely the most powerful option for three mana you have.
I'm not sure about deathrite shaman. Should this be a mainboard card? If so, should I play it over innocent bloods? I really don't want to play bloods + shaman. I love overloading on creature removal, but maybe an extra threat + mana ramp is more worthwhile? This is something I have not figured out yet. I opted to use DRS as my graveyard hate in the board though, because that seemed like a powerful option to have additional threats out of the board when I need them. I think with 4x Abrupt Decay + 3x Liliana + 3x Intuition there might just be enough creature control. This is something I'm paying close attention to in particular.
I'm not convinced discard in the main is where a deck like this wants to be. It loses so much value over time, and a deck like this tends to do best when it can always win the topdeck war. That said, there are a lot of valuable spells to protect, so it can be worthwhile. My main issue is that you need to have enough blue cards for force.
As for lands...I really don't like wasteland in a deck like this. I want my lands to help me color fix or help my game plan in some other way. I'm just not sure there's enough targets worth wastelanding to include it in the list. Sure, you can get loam/waste randomly at times, but that just doesn't seem like a super efficient way to spend your time. I also dislike the basic forest. There's just not enough green cards that you need to cast right away that warrants the card.
That's all I'll say for now, but I have a lot more to talk about still.
Mansoor
02-17-2014, 11:09 PM
Hey, Valtrix! Glad to see that you share a similar interest in bringing BUG Control back to the forefront. I really think the Depths package makes this deck a top contender, as it really doesn't have a bad match up and can now close games much more efficiently.
I do like Sensei's Divining Top quite a bit, and honestly hadn't incorporated it in to this list because I needed the blue spell count to be higher in order to have reliable FoWs. I have played my fair share of Miracles, and SDT often did an amazing job of sculpting a good long game, but it is also a bit slower than Ponder; in this deck that may not be an issue, but the blue count is currently my main concern. The top 8 of this Grand Prix has me very confused - PV played two Counterbalance, where everyone else opted for more. Miracles performed well, while BUG Delver (a deck with 4 Abrupt Decay) over performed. The fact that they both coexisted side by side came as very strange to me, as that coexistence seems to be at odds with one another. My main reason to avoid playing Counterbalance at the moment is the assured rise in popularity of the BUG decks, and incidentally Abrupt Decay as well.
I agree with you that the set up of Stage/Depths drawn naturally is very difficult, as it requires finding a specific combination of two cards in the 75. That said, I have played a fair bit with Intuition, and especially in control shells, its not a card you want to draw multiples of, as the first one does the job necessary for the problem at hand. Later on, a Snapcaster can Flashback the "answer" Intuition for the winning combo. As with BUG decks of the past, winning very quickly is not necessary, but ensuring that we stabilize and get to the point where we can win the game is very important. Multiple Intuition draws can be very clunky and slow, and will present more problems than solutions in games where immediate problems require more immediate answers.
I like DRS for a few reasons:
- We lack a good preboard way to gain life, which in this very aggressive and creature based metagame can be very important.
- It acts as a good preboard answer to Reanimator decks, controlling the size of Tarmogoyf, and controlling opposing Snapcaster Mages.
- Deathrite protects us from Wasteland-laden draws from the opponent, which would generally be problematic if not for DRS.
- Resolving turn 2 Lilianas and turn 3 Jaces are very difficult to beat for many decks.
As far as discard in the main, I can't really imagine trying to play the deck without it. Realistically, there are several very fast combo decks in this format that require Force of Will, yet at the same time are very quick to rebuild their hands and attempt to combo a second and even third time. Discard keeps them from assembling a critical mass of combo pieces, similar to Liliana. Snapcaster Mage ensures this game plan is executed in conjunction. Additionally, the ability to nab tutored up Batterskulls before a SFM sneaks it in to play is pretty important, as there are very few hard answers to the card in the 75. Using them like combo decks tend to, by protecting key spells like Jace from counters, also works very well. The blue card count I already mentioned, but at 18 I believe I am at the very breaking point of too few. That said, I have 18 in my list and you have 19 - the edges gained by their addition seem as though they would outweigh the benefit of one additional blue card would offer to FoW reliability.
As for lands...I really don't like wasteland in a deck like this. I want my lands to help me color fix or help my game plan in some other way. I'm just not sure there's enough targets worth wastelanding to include it in the list. Sure, you can get loam/waste randomly at times, but that just doesn't seem like a super efficient way to spend your time. I also dislike the basic forest. There's just not enough green cards that you need to cast right away that warrants the card.
I can certainly understand your reservations about playing Wasteland and the Forest; not being able to cast our spells is a huge dagger. That said, prior versions of BUG Control played 3 Wastelands. I will say that using Wasteland to try and cut a player out of a color by itself is very loose, and likely incorrect, but using it as an answer to problematic lands, like Grove of Burnwillows, Academy Ruins, or a Wasteland threatening to keep us off of Stage/Depths seems to merit the inclusion of one. The games that we get to Wasteland the opponent out with Loam are gravy, but I don't think they will be all that unusual. The Forest is somewhat a concession to the number of Wastelands that the fair and aggressive Delver decks are currently playing. We will need to cast our Abrupt Decays when we mean to, and certainly the Golgari Charms out of the board as well. It may be unnecessary, and I've had suggestions for it to be a Creeping Tar Pit instead, but losing when you're cut off from a color is completely avoidable, so for now I'll test with it unless it becomes problematic.
Your list is very interesting, as well. Drop of Honey is certainly a sweet one, and I'm sure you garner several 2-for-1's with it. Is Karakas better than the Maze of Ith right now? I'm not sure what role the Maze is meant to fill.
Continued conversation about this deck feels warranted!!
Megadeus
02-17-2014, 11:22 PM
I'm glad that I'm not the only one who thinks night of souls betrayal in aBUG control shell is good
Valtrix
02-18-2014, 01:38 AM
I do like Sensei's Divining Top quite a bit, and honestly hadn't incorporated it in to this list because I needed the blue spell count to be higher in order to have reliable FoWs. I have played my fair share of Miracles, and SDT often did an amazing job of sculpting a good long game, but it is also a bit slower than Ponder; in this deck that may not be an issue, but the blue count is currently my main concern.
In my opinion you're splashing too heavily in black. Top is by far one of the most important cards in a control deck, and while ponder is "faster" most of what you do is still reactive. As such, the speed of ponder tends not to matter that much. However, being able to spend an extra mana to top every turn gives you an unreal huge edge over the course of the game. You can also run a couple ponders if you want, like the GP Miracles lists were doing. I know you really need force, but you also really want top in this type of deck.
The top 8 of this Grand Prix has me very confused - PV played two Counterbalance, where everyone else opted for more. Miracles performed well, while BUG Delver (a deck with 4 Abrupt Decay) over performed. The fact that they both coexisted side by side came as very strange to me, as that coexistence seems to be at odds with one another. My main reason to avoid playing Counterbalance at the moment is the assured rise in popularity of the BUG decks, and incidentally Abrupt Decay as well.
Think about it this way: swords to plowshares isn't bad because it's only answering a single creature, is it? Similarly, just because your opponent has a way to answer counterbalance, they still have to spend a card to do so. While it may take out one of your strongest cards over the course of a game, trading a 1-for-1 is still fitting with your game plan. On the other hand, when you run into decks without abrupt decay counterbalance tends to decimate those decks, which is why I think it's a very worthwhile inclusion. I also like balance on the principle that it gives your deck another axis to take control of the game on. For this type of deck, you have the advantage of tops, GY abuse with intuition, and planeswalkers--the more axes you use in your deck the harder it is for your opponent to find appropriate answers. Counterbalance is also a way for a deck like this to gain a huge edge in combo/control matchups.
I agree with you that the set up of Stage/Depths drawn naturally is very difficult, as it requires finding a specific combination of two cards in the 75. That said, I have played a fair bit with Intuition, and especially in control shells, its not a card you want to draw multiples of, as the first one does the job necessary for the problem at hand. Later on, a Snapcaster can Flashback the "answer" Intuition for the winning combo. As with BUG decks of the past, winning very quickly is not necessary, but ensuring that we stabilize and get to the point where we can win the game is very important. Multiple Intuition draws can be very clunky and slow, and will present more problems than solutions in games where immediate problems require more immediate answers.
Is Karakas better than the Maze of Ith right now? I'm not sure what role the Maze is meant to fill.
A few words on Intuition: when you run maze of ith, the card feels much less "clunky" in my experience. I actually like two mazes with intuition, because spending your turn three to setup loam + maze + maze lets you loam for two mazes on turn 4, which is perfectly acceptable. Even if they have a wasteland, you're up +2 removal (for most creatures) and a loam, so likely a fetchland as well. That said, I thought I would try only a singleton maze to try for maze + loam + stage instead. This package is probably less good than the double maze, but since I'm still testing things out. Also, do not discount the fact that many decks will have trouble simply dealing with a stage/depths combo, so you can afford to be aggressive and just set that up. Intuition is definitely one of the most powerful plays you can be making, in my opinion. I really like three, especially in a deck that can turn them into a quick win condition. Using it as a 3 mana force of will also is not awful, when you really need a counterspell.
Also, Maze of ith is a fantastic answer to any equipment. Nice batterskull, I guess I'll just maze it.
I like DRS for a few reasons:
- We lack a good preboard way to gain life, which in this very aggressive and creature based metagame can be very important.
- It acts as a good preboard answer to Reanimator decks, controlling the size of Tarmogoyf, and controlling opposing Snapcaster Mages.
- Deathrite protects us from Wasteland-laden draws from the opponent, which would generally be problematic if not for DRS.
- Resolving turn 2 Lilianas and turn 3 Jaces are very difficult to beat for many decks.
I agree that these are all good things, but he's not really a good clock given that we have no other creatures. So his main usage is splash graveyard hate and some ramping/fixing. I guess I'm just not completely sold on this yet. Remember that the deck is running a very low amount of creatures, so there's a good change DRS will eat some creature removal anyway.
As far as discard in the main, I can't really imagine trying to play the deck without it. Realistically, there are several very fast combo decks in this format that require Force of Will, yet at the same time are very quick to rebuild their hands and attempt to combo a second and even third time. Discard keeps them from assembling a critical mass of combo pieces, similar to Liliana. Snapcaster Mage ensures this game plan is executed in conjunction. Additionally, the ability to nab tutored up Batterskulls before a SFM sneaks it in to play is pretty important, as there are very few hard answers to the card in the 75. Using them like combo decks tend to, by protecting key spells like Jace from counters, also works very well. The blue card count I already mentioned, but at 18 I believe I am at the very breaking point of too few. That said, I have 18 in my list and you have 19 - the edges gained by their addition seem as though they would outweigh the benefit of one additional blue card would offer to FoW reliability.
I think discard is very important for some matchups, for which I have some in the sideboard. That said, your blue count can become very constrained by running too much discard. It's also a horrible topdeck; I think decks like this really gain a lot of power by being able to outdraw the opponent in topdeck mode. For these reasons I don't care for discard much in the main.
I can certainly understand your reservations about playing Wasteland and the Forest; not being able to cast our spells is a huge dagger. That said, prior versions of BUG Control played 3 Wastelands.
Which I think is a mistake. This deck is just as hungry as miracles, and nobody even considers wasteland in miracles. Is BUG control really so different from a miracles deck that suddenly wasteland becomes much better? I really don't think so. I really believe people just like to mise the loam + wasteland setup and because of that run wasteland.
I will say that using Wasteland to try and cut a player out of a color by itself is very loose, and likely incorrect, but using it as an answer to problematic lands, like Grove of Burnwillows, Academy Ruins, or a Wasteland threatening to keep us off of Stage/Depths seems to merit the inclusion of one.
In reality though, isn't it more likely we'll run into issues with our own mana base either from natural draws or because the opponent has a wasteland? I admit there are circumstances where wasteland is nice, but in my opinion the times where you really want colored land will far outweigh the benefits of a wasteland.
The games that we get to Wasteland the opponent out with Loam are gravy, but I don't think they will be all that unusual. The Forest is somewhat a concession to the number of Wastelands that the fair and aggressive Delver decks are currently playing. We will need to cast our Abrupt Decays when we mean to, and certainly the Golgari Charms out of the board as well. It may be unnecessary, and I've had suggestions for it to be a Creeping Tar Pit instead, but losing when you're cut off from a color is completely avoidable, so for now I'll test with it unless it becomes problematic.
This deck is hardly playing any green. You shouldn't play a basic for a 4-of card in the deck in my opinion (loam doesn't really count in my opinion, since you can usually just get a fetch back right when you cast it). The deck is also running a large number of nonbasics, so even if you're plan is to fetch out a basic vs. wasteland decks in all reality there is a very high probability that you'll have drawn a nonbasic anyway.
Your list is very interesting, as well. Drop of Honey is certainly a sweet one, and I'm sure you garner several 2-for-1's with it.
I appreciate your pun here. I like it as a pseudo-sweeper, because my biggest complaint about the BUG colors is that I don't have a powerful sweeper like terminus. Drop of Honey can be a nice card to buy a lot of time in the early game if you have it. I'm not sold on it exactly, but I think it's worth testing for now at least.
my biggest complaint about the BUG colors is that I don't have a powerful sweeper like terminus.
Are you sure? Try Toxic Deluge or Pernicious Deed.
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