SCG and its not-as-lousy-as-WotC coverage

[Esper3k]

I was actually thinking about it the other day in another context. Ok so, SCG is super bias when it comes to who they put on camera. We all know this. They put on their content writers and/or familiar names first whenever possible. Now they are sometimes matchups of familiar name vs familiar name. Those are fine. But most of the time it is an SCG favorite vs average Joe. The content writers better be used to the streams by now but the average Joe is likely to be nervous. He will probably play worse because hes on camera, giving an unfair advantage to the SCG favorite. Now if they just selected random matchups to feature this would be not be an issue, but they don't. There is an intentional selection bias.

TL;DR: Is it fair that SCG hand picks their favorites to feature against possibly nervous/intimidated "nobody" players?

I don't find anything wrong with it - it's not like they do it with the intention of giving their named grinders an advantage.

In any large tournament, if you're doing well, you're going to have to get used to playing with a crowd watching you, under pressure, and likely against known good players.

I just see it as a good learning experience.

[Barook]

TL;DR: Is it fair that SCG hand picks their favorites to feature against possibly nervous/intimidated "nobody" players?
Can't you just decline to be on a feature match as long as it isn't Top 8 and thus unavoidable?

[easysantiago]

I don't find anything wrong with it - it's not like they do it with the intention of giving their named grinders an advantage.

In any large tournament, if you're doing well, you're going to have to get used to playing with a crowd watching you, under pressure, and likely against known good players.

I just see it as a good learning experience.

Yes! That's half the fun of it.

Additionally, whether you're playing at an FMN or SCG Open, I think there is a common thrill and anxiety associated with playing against a stranger in the public eye that is as positive as it is nerve-racking. I sometimes play terribly in a new setting with strange people watching; however, getting familiar with your deck, the format, and the meta-game solves this problem.

[Dice_Box]

Not sure, I am willing to bet you could ask, but I think part of playing at an event is agreeing that you may end up on cam.

I personally have never been in that situation, but I have been the last game going of the night in an event. You have everyone who is still there watching, but I do not know if they said a dam thing. I was so spaced in on just that one game, so much was riding on it I blocked everything else out. I feel like, if I was at a feature table this kind of mindset would come to me again. Now while I can not speak for others, I think that, if you take a breath, pause a moment and then pick up your cards then there is no reason you can't just block out everything else and play. Let the chips fall as they may, play that game and see what happens when it is all said and done.

No one is talking in your ear, twitter does not matter until afterwards. No reason to not just focus on that game and then worry about what shit people say till after.

[Megadeus]

In my one on camera match I feel like it made me actually focus harder on the game and not make any mistakes (other than my extremely loose keeps, which I knew were shaky).

[PirateKing]

SCG events have the whole participation waiver to have your image used for profit and you forfeiting any inclusion to that revenue. Which is why I found the whole asscrackgate thing so amusing, because those "victims" could claim no violation, in addition to being in public space, their participation amounted to consent.

I've never been in a camera match, so I won't speak to that, but I've found the apex of my nerves to be game 1 match 1. Playing with friends and just doing local practice for peanuts never bothers me, but as soon as I sit down across from someone who is actually playing to win, a little dose of adrenaline gets my heart going and palms moistened. Then that game sort of reminds me that all the practice is actually applicable to what I'm doing, and it all sorts itself out for the rest of the tournament. I experience the same sensation in baseball, no matter how many trips to the cage, that first at bat of the day against guy who is looking to sit you down gets me going, then I remember that I've actually practiced for this and everything goes smoothly.

So as long as there is no match 1 coverage, I think I'm safe from imploding from the though of having my play peer reviewed.

[Megadeus]

SCG events have the whole participation waiver to have your image used for profit and you forfeiting any inclusion to that revenue. Which is why I found the whole asscrackgate thing so amusing, because those "victims" could claim no violation, in addition to being in public space, their participation amounted to consent.



To be fair, wasnt Crack gate at a GP? Or was that at the GP that was SCG hosted? do they make you sign similar waivers at GPs hosted by them?

And honestly, I get much more nervous playing against locals that I know are good players than random SCG people. At SCG Opens, I generally just assume everyone is not as good as the people I play against on a weekly basis.

[nedleeds]

To be fair, wasnt Crack gate at a GP? Or was that at the GP that was SCG hosted? do they make you sign similar waivers at GPs hosted by them?

And honestly, I get much more nervous playing against locals that I know are good players than random SCG people. At SCG Opens, I generally just assume everyone is not as good as the people I play against on a weekly basis.

Thanks man.

[nedleeds]

I just feel bad for people that get put on camera to play. It has to be so disconcerting to know thousands of people are watching you're every move, down to the very way you draw cards. Every mistake gets magnified, as well.

It just seems sad people look to dissect things like that because of past-precedent on-camera shenanigans. I mean how stupid do you really have to be to cheat with thousands of watchful eyes on you?

I miss simpler times.

True, you have to have brass fucking balls to cheat on camera. I'm more critical of the table judges missing things like converted mana costs, whether something is summoning sick. You have this judge staring at your match and this stuff gets missed.

http://www.chrisdevlinwrites.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/glen-garry-glen-ross.jpg

[Arsenal]

TL;DR: Is it fair that SCG hand picks their favorites to feature against possibly nervous/intimidated "nobody" players?

Meh, my buddy Brian got paired up against Matthias Hunt on camera and straight CRUSHED Matthias so hard that Matthias basically ragedquit. I think the setup is fine.

[Dice_Box]

Meh, my buddy Brian got paired up against Matthias Hunt on camera and straight CRUSHED Matthias so hard that Matthias basically ragedquit. I think the setup is fine.

Link?

[Richard Cheese]

I just feel bad for people that get put on camera to play. It has to be so disconcerting to know thousands of people are watching you're every move, down to the very way you draw cards. Every mistake gets magnified, as well.

It just seems sad people look to dissect things like that because of past-precedent on-camera shenanigans. I mean how stupid do you really have to be to cheat with thousands of watchful eyes on you?

I miss simpler times.

Do thousands of people really watch that stream?

[Lord Seth]

Do thousands of people really watch that stream?I can't remember the exact number, but I remember when turning on the stream (I came in kinda late in the tournament) of their Legacy Open, the number of viewers was in the thousands. I think it was something like 5000-6000. Though maybe it got more viewers than usual due to increased interest from the Invitational.

[thecrav]

Hah seriously. My local group even made a joke about starting to stream Legacy at the store to make me practice playing on camera since I play so poorly when I'm on...

That wasn't a joke. We already have the camera and the computer set up.

[Megadeus]

I can't remember the exact number, but I remember when turning on the stream (I came in kinda late in the tournament) of their Legacy Open, the number of viewers was in the thousands. I think it was something like 5000-6000. Though maybe it got more viewers than usual due to increased interest from the Invitational.

Legacy on SUndays generally has anywhere from 3000-8000 Viewing at any one time.

[Tyrio]

Do thousands of people really watch that stream?

They usually average 4-7k iirc for the Legacy Open. Don't pay too much attention to standard.

edit: I like all of us gave slightly smaller ranges of viewership.

[ESG]

I was actually thinking about it the other day in another context. Ok so, SCG is super bias when it comes to who they put on camera. We all know this. They put on their content writers and/or familiar names first whenever possible. Now they are sometimes matchups of familiar name vs familiar name. Those are fine. But most of the time it is an SCG favorite vs average Joe. The content writers better be used to the streams by now but the average Joe is likely to be nervous. He will probably play worse because hes on camera, giving an unfair advantage to the SCG favorite. Now if they just selected random matchups to feature this would be not be an issue, but they don't. There is an intentional selection bias.

TL;DR: Is it fair that SCG hand picks their favorites to feature against possibly nervous/intimidated "nobody" players?

This isn't a fairness issue. If you're nervous on camera, that's your problem. You can work to improve it, like any part of your game. SCG features players who are leading the field. You don't see matches from 0-3 players. Commonly, the people you call SCG favorites are pros or semipros, and they're often at the top tables. I would wager that they would crush the average Joe most of time, with or without a camera running.

[PirateKing]

To be fair, wasnt Crack gate at a GP? Or was that at the GP that was SCG hosted? do they make you sign similar waivers at GPs hosted by them?

The waiver is going to be included by any competent organizer, SCG or Hasboro will both have symmetrical language covering their liability towards use of you image and likeness for their profit. Sometimes the waiver limits release to just that organization, others don't specify, granting the same protection from claim to the company as say, a bored attendee with a imgur account.

[Dice_Box]

Sometimes they throw a curve ball and put strange decks on. Imo, to date the best game they ever streamed was between Hypergenesis and a really wacked ass Elves build. Just because, well call that game before you watch it. Thing was nuts.

At the same time, flip the coin and we had a young lady (Who's name escapes me) play Elves on camera too. Picked because she was a woman I think. In the elves thread we where half seriously discussing asking her never to play the deck again.

[danyul]

That was Jackie Lee. She's like a semipro or something. She writes for TCGPlayer. K back to lurking!

:disappears into the Shadow (this creature can block or be blocked by only creatures with shadow):

[Megadeus]

The waiver is going to be included by any competent organizer, SCG or Hasboro will both have symmetrical language covering their liability towards use of you image and likeness for their profit. Sometimes the waiver limits release to just that organization, others don't specify, granting the same protection from claim to the company as say, a bored attendee with a imgur account.

Ah. Only played in one GP and that was my first major legacy event. GP ATL 2012. It was so long ago I dont really remember there being a waiver. BG Nic Fit. I beat Dredge because T2 Scavenging Ooze is too good, and some Metalworker Affinity deck because: Deed > Artifact Lands. I remember that was GP Reanimator. Shouldve played like 3 Main Deck Scavenging Oozes.

[Arsenal]

Link?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPyyoULYmLw

Hand propped under the chin, flipping cards around the battlefield, etc. God this was awesome.

[thecrav]

That was Jackie Lee. She's like a semipro or something. She writes for TCGPlayer. K back to lurking!


She tweeted that it was her first time ever playing with the deck, then she made several major misplays on camera, then she complained that the payout she got wasn't big enough when she got like 17th place. Most of the drama I saw about it was regarding that least part.

[Darkenslight]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPyyoULYmLw

Hand propped under the chin, flipping cards around the battlefield, etc. God this was awesome.

How the fuck do you draw two matches with High Tide?

[Dice_Box]

Some U/W/r deck that's running around these past few years I think might be able to answer that for you.

[mort-]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPyyoULYmLw

Hand propped under the chin, flipping cards around the battlefield, etc. God this was awesome.

I would also ragequit if I would be beat by a person wearing a YOLO shirt.

There are certain things you don't do.

Ever.

[Quasim0ff]

I would also ragequit if I would be beat by a person wearing a YOLO shirt.

There are certain things you don't do.

Ever.
It's actually even worse.

A dredge player wearing a Yolo shirt.

[JDK]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPyyoULYmLw

Hand propped under the chin, flipping cards around the battlefield, etc. God this was awesome.
:eyebrow:

[HammafistRoob]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPyyoULYmLw

Hand propped under the chin, flipping cards around the battlefield, etc. God this was awesome.

You wasted five minutes of my life and I want it back.

[Arsenal]

The "YOLO" thing is a inside joke among my crew. Basically, I HATE all things YOLO and they just go over the top the other way and put YOLO on everything; they dubbed my UW Stoneblade deck as "#YOLOSWAGBlade" whenever we enter tourneys.

[PirateKing]

The "YOLO" thing is a inside joke among my crew. Basically, I HATE all things YOLO and they just go over the top the other way and put YOLO on everything; they dubbed my UW Stoneblade deck as "#YOLOSWAGBlade" whenever we enter tourneys.

An ironic Dredge player, that's even better :laugh:

[Arsenal]

What made it even better was that Brian doesn't even play Dredge and audibled into at the last minute. Someone asked if it was unfair that SCG puts "name" players up against randoms on camera. I don't think it's unfair at all, and when you crush a "name" on camera, it makes it even sweeter.

[Lord Seth]

Oddly, one of the most questionable decisions I've seen by SCG was during Grand Prix Richmond, was when they opted to put Reid Duke vs. Patrick Dickmann as the backup feature match.

[thecrav]

Oddly, one of the most questionable decisions I've seen by SCG was during Grand Prix Richmond, was when they opted to put Reid Duke vs. Patrick Dickmann as the backup feature match.

I don't know about this specific instance, but sometimes they'll put the more interesting match on backup because the expect the first match to end quickly, such as in a combo vs burn match.

[bakofried]

Any updates on the Vegas open? Interesting feature matches, etc.

[Megadeus]

Dont think they have started yet. Gotta remember they are on PST.

[bakofried]

So am I, haha.

Just at work and I can't check until later. Hopefully I see some familiar names, I know quite a few people who went.

[thecrav]

That was an awful series of plays for Mr Shippy there...

Feline: High tide > Time Spiral
Mike: Pyroblast
Feline: put SDT on top, trigger counterbalance to counter pyroblast
Mike: Mindbreak Trap (only 2 spells have been played)

Pass turn, Mike untaps and plays Thoughtseize, having already seen that a 1 is on top.

[mort-]

So Mindbreak Trap needs three spells in total cast now instead of three spells cast by your opponent.
I don't know what I find more shocking, the fact that the one who plays it doesn't know that, the fact that someone called a combo expert doesn't notice that, or that I'm watching Algeria - Korea and still notice the error immediately after having my attention drawn away by a goal.

Edited out false information :)

[Holly]

To be fair: the commentators catched it immediatly and wanted to stop the game, though until the judge could be informed the game advanced to far to back up.

[thecrav]

To be fair: the commentators catched it immediatly and wanted to stop the game, though until the judge could be informed the game advanced to far to back up.

In the last couple tournaments, I've noticed that if you listen carefully, you can hear Cedric talking to someone else (I assume their director?) During this match, he mentioned that they need to get some kind of "panic button" to allow them to instantly notify the table judge that they need to stop the match. Given the complaints above, I think this is actually a really good idea.

[Dice_Box]

I can really see that having a impact. Maybe they can test it.

[Barook]

In the last couple tournaments, I've noticed that if you listen carefully, you can hear Cedric talking to someone else (I assume their director?) During this match, he mentioned that they need to get some kind of "panic button" to allow them to instantly notify the table judge that they need to stop the match. Given the complaints above, I think this is actually a really good idea.
Sounds like a good idea to test.

The amount of cheating and broken rules on camera is embarassing sometimes.

[Julian23]

In the last Open, I saw a morphed Birchlore Ranger countered by Counterbalance with a 3 on top. I immediately went for the TWITTER-ALERT button but it was too late :cry:

[thecrav]

I'm not gonna try to tumblr up a point here, but Pat just compared activating SDT to war crimes...

[Zombie]

I'm not gonna try to tumblr up a point here, but Pat just compared activating SDT to war crimes...

And?

[Darkenslight]

I'm not gonna try to tumblr up a point here, but Pat just compared activating SDT to war crimes...

IT's a crime against round times, that's for sure! :eyebrow:

[Whippoorwill]

Burn mirror and both players are missing Goblin Guide triggers.:really:

[nedleeds]

Have any of these Walmart burn players read chain lightnin'?

[JDK]

Either new players or people trying to cheat. Seriously, if you are aware of it once and not a complete dumbface, you remember or just "train" pointing to the Little-GG-Guy as you tap him. Especially if you play a deck with 4 copies in it...

@Chain Lightning
Well, happens from time to time, as people are rarely in the position to copy it and it looks and feels so similar to Bolt. About a year ago I had Valentin Mackl sitting across me and frowning as he realized he just missed this exact interaction.
But yeah, if you play the card yourself, you should know.

[cdr]

Considering historically the commentators are wrong 9/10 times when they think something went wrong in the match, a panic button sounds like a terrible idea.

[lordofthepit]

I'm ecstatic to see a burn mirror, in the 5-0 bracket, no less.

[nedleeds]

Why?

[Megadeus]

I admittedly rooted for belcher vs BUG. I don't know why. I only root for burn if they play against death blade

[lordofthepit]

Why?

I generally like rooting for the underdog, especially a cheaper deck. Also, I feel Burn is a reasonable deck right now, but it gets no respect because most of its pilots are newer players.

[Tyrio]

Burn gets no respect because the deck is a steaming pile of feces.

[warfordium]

Burn gets no respect because the deck is a steaming pile of feces.

http://th07.deviantart.net/fs71/PRE/i/2013/133/4/5/troll_face_with_problem_high_quality__by_mioakiyama0112-d654qm5.png

[Quasim0ff]

Burn mirror and both players are missing Goblin Guide triggers.:really:
Well, you'd likely lose the mirror if you don't skip on your Goblin Guide triggers. That's the ONLY way to play it in the mirror, due to feeding cards otherwise.
Edit: I meta'd my own brain, and got it the wrong way around. Stupid fuckin school making my brain work overtime. Sorry Whippoor!

[menace13]

Well, you'd likely lose the mirror if you don't skip on your Goblin Guide triggers. That's the ONLY way to play it in the mirror, due to feeding cards otherwise.
In a burn mirror you want to take the Guide triggers to hopefully draw an extra card. And it is not a may skip trigger either.

Whenever Goblin Guide attacks, defending player reveals the top card of his or her library. If it's a land card, that player puts it into his or her hand.

[Quasim0ff]

In a burn mirror you want to take the Guide triggers to hopefully draw an extra card. And it is not a may skip trigger either.

Whenever Goblin Guide attacks, defending player reveals the top card of his or her library. If it's a land card, that player puts it into his or her hand.

I just reread my post, and obviously had it the other way around, since both of em did so. Sorry!

[Richard Cheese]

Burn wins an open, piloted by a guy in a Chive shirt? This is either some master-level trolling, or the format needs to take a good hard look at itself.

[TheAardvark]

Keep Calm & Burn On?

[danyul]

Burn wins an open, piloted by a guy in a Chive shirt? This is either some master-level trolling, or the format needs to take a good hard look at itself.

He was also super obnoxious on stream. He was only behaving himself in the final two matches of the Top 8, but in the Swiss rounds and the Quarterfinals, he was just acting like a spazz the whole time. Making dumb faces into the camera, taking forever to shuffle, making his Price of Progress crawl along the table while his opponent decided whether or not to Force it. Small stupid stuff like that, but nonstop. You can get a feel for some of that in his winner's interview too. The guy just needed to calm the fuck down. Even Cedric got mad. You can hear Cedric off-mic in the background during the Quarters tell the director to "Get this guy to finish shuffling and stop fucking around. This is fucking ridiculous." Or something to that effect.

[mort-]

Burn wins an open, piloted by a guy in a Chive shirt? This is either some master-level trolling, or the format needs to take a good hard look at itself.

Well.. his BUG quarterfinal opponent actively tried to throw the game away on many occasions and succeded in the end :D

[Michael Keller]

All just a microcosm of how truly shitty the overall level of competition at these Opens is and how immature people really are.

Welcome to the fucking future of Magic.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Welcome to the fucking future of humanity.

Fixed.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

[Richard Cheese]

He was also super obnoxious on stream. He was only behaving himself in the final two matches of the Top 8, but in the Swiss rounds and the Quarterfinals, he was just acting like a spazz the whole time. Making dumb faces into the camera, taking forever to shuffle, making his Price of Progress crawl along the table while his opponent decided whether or not to Force it. Small stupid stuff like that, but nonstop. You can get a feel for some of that in his winner's interview too. The guy just needed to calm the fuck down. Even Cedric got mad. You can hear Cedric off-mic in the background during the Quarters tell the director to "Get this guy to finish shuffling and stop fucking around. This is fucking ridiculous." Or something to that effect.

This is why I don't watch the streams.

[Koby]

This is what happens when I'm not at the event to crush noobtards.

[Julian23]

All just a microcosm of how truly shitty the overall level of competition at these Opens is and how immature people really are.

Welcome to the fucking future of Magic.

Not all is lost. We're sending a selected European task force over there in November. Finest of Danish, Austrian and German Legacy.

[bakofried]

In fairness, i'd be obnoxious too if I were taking down an Open with Burn.

[JPoJohnson]

In fairness, i'd be obnoxious too if I were taking down an Open with Burn.

If I ever decided to take burn to an open over any other deck, I probably would act different as well. Not sure I'd be as obnoxious as he was, but act like I didn't quite know what was going on. Of course you would have to bring crappy condition destroyed cards as well. Otherwise, not worth it. That last point is crucial. Must be destroyed.

Edit: That being said, I can't say I will ever bring burn to an open.

[Barook]

Burn wins an open, piloted by a guy in a Chive shirt? This is either some master-level trolling, or the format needs to take a good hard look at itself.
Like it or not, Burn is alot more viable than before due to getting two bombs in recent sets: Searing Blood for the board to complement Searing Blaze against creature decks and Eidolon of the Great Revel is the real deal which gives them alot of game against spell-based decks.

Just like the recent MODO results show, you don't need to be a good player to win with Burn. It sometimes get draws that just "get there". Considering how cheap the deck is compared to other decks, I would certainly expect more Burn in the future.

Be afraid. Be very afraid.

[thecrav]

Even Cedric got mad. You can hear Cedric off-mic in the background during the Quarters tell the director to "Get this guy to finish shuffling and stop fucking around. This is fucking ridiculous." Or something to that effect.

I was wondering if anyone else noticed that...

[Parcher]

Like it or not, Burn is alot more viable than before due to getting two bombs in recent sets: Searing Blood for the board to complement Searing Blaze against creature decks and Eidolon of the Great Revel is the real deal which gives them alot of game against spell-based decks.

Just like the recent MODO results show, you don't need to be a good player to win with Burn. It sometimes get draws that just "get there". Considering how cheap the deck is compared to other decks, I would certainly expect more Burn in the future.

Be afraid. Be very afraid.

The ToA tournament on Saturday was at least 12% Burn. I think maybe one made Top8. Considering the players, though, I beileve card availability had a lot to do with this.

[Megadeus]

He was also super obnoxious on stream. He was only behaving himself in the final two matches of the Top 8, but in the Swiss rounds and the Quarterfinals, he was just acting like a spazz the whole time. Making dumb faces into the camera, taking forever to shuffle, making his Price of Progress crawl along the table while his opponent decided whether or not to Force it. Small stupid stuff like that, but nonstop. You can get a feel for some of that in his winner's interview too. The guy just needed to calm the fuck down. Even Cedric got mad. You can hear Cedric off-mic in the background during the Quarters tell the director to "Get this guy to finish shuffling and stop fucking around. This is fucking ridiculous." Or something to that effect.

Funny you say this, in a Facebook post while I was watching an earlier game with him, I said,

"Am I the only one who is extremely annoyed with the way the dude on the left is shuffling?"

[danyul]

Funny you say this, in a Facebook post while I was watching an earlier game with him, I said,

"Am I the only one who is extremely annoyed with the way the dude on the left is shuffling?"

Twitter was not happy with him either. In the Semifinals he dropped his opponent's deck all over the table and I think on the floor after shuffle-cutting for a fetch. They had to have the table judge count the deck to check for missing cards so the director cut to Patrick/Cedric for chit-chat about random BS just to kill the time. It was gross.

I also didn't like his hat. And that might be the most important thing.

[lordofthepit]

Twitter was not happy with him either. In the Semifinals he dropped his opponent's deck all over the table and I think on the floor after shuffle-cutting for a fetch. They had to have the table judge count the deck to check for missing cards so the director cut to Patrick/Cedric for chit-chat about random BS just to kill the time. It was gross.

I also didn't like his hat. And that might be the most important thing.

"Camidge" rhymes with "damage", not "charisma".

[Quasim0ff]

Not all is lost. We're sending a selected European task force over there in November. Finest of Danish, Austrian and German Legacy.
Who from Denmark? Enevoldsen, Bonde and rest of Team Rocket? Or is it the Københavners?

[sdematt]

Twitter was not happy with him either. In the Semifinals he dropped his opponent's deck all over the table and I think on the floor after shuffle-cutting for a fetch. They had to have the table judge count the deck to check for missing cards so the director cut to Patrick/Cedric for chit-chat about random BS just to kill the time. It was gross.

I also didn't like his hat. And that might be the most important thing.

If he dropped my cards, I'd go Black Dynamite on his ass.

-Matt

[Quasim0ff]

Twitter was not happy with him either. In the Semifinals he dropped his opponent's deck all over the table and I think on the floor after shuffle-cutting for a fetch. They had to have the table judge count the deck to check for missing cards so the director cut to Patrick/Cedric for chit-chat about random BS just to kill the time. It was gross.

I also didn't like his hat. And that might be the most important thing.
I'd go completely mental on him, if he dropped my cards on the floor, jesus christ.
He sounds like a moron, who should only be allowed to play keeper draft and block constructed (i.e. anything w/o value)

[PirateKing]

You can hear Cedric off-mic in the background during the Quarters tell the director to "Get this guy to finish shuffling and stop fucking around. This is fucking ridiculous." Or something to that effect.

Link to this timestamp?

[danyul]

If he dropped my cards, I'd go Black Dynamite on his ass.

-Matt


I'd go completely mental on him, if he dropped my cards on the floor, jesus christ.
He sounds like a moron, who should only be allowed to play keeper draft and block constructed (i.e. anything w/o value)

Yeah I'd be on life tilt if my deck took a spill. It's likely more unpleasant than having your opponent riffle shuffle your deck without warning.


Link to this timestamp?

I'm heading out to my weekly Legacy event. But I'll try to hunt down the time stamps when I get back home.

[thecrav]

Link to this timestamp?

http://www.twitch.tv/scglive/b/540596603?t=1992m

~30s in at 33:12:30s

[Mr.C]

http://www.twitch.tv/scglive/b/540596603?t=1992m

~30s in at 33:12:30s

So I'm guessing Cedric will post an apology online soon. I chuckled, though.

[Jon]

So I'm guessing Cedric will post an apology online soon. I chuckled, though.

Geeze that burn player is a twat, pretty representative of all the burn players I have ever encountered.

[Zoomer3989]

http://www.twitch.tv/scglive/b/540596603?t=1992m

~30s in at 33:12:30s

I'm kind of amazed I didn't catch that. It was loud and clear when I tried rewatching it on the stream.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

So I'm guessing Cedric will post an apology online soon. I chuckled, though.
Screw that. I agree. Quit messing around and play competitive magic. Cedric said what I felt.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

[Michael Keller]

Kid just needs to grow up.

[conboy31]

Hopefully Bryan never gets another feature match. Cedric could probably feel the collective weight of 4k viewers sighing and tuning out of the coverage.

[Zllig]

Hopefully Bryan never gets another feature match. Cedric could probably feel the collective weight of 4k viewers sighing and tuning out of the coverage.

Cedric probably always feels the collective weight of 4k viewers. Ba dum tish

[JPoJohnson]

Screw that. I agree. Quit messing around and play competitive magic. Cedric said what I felt.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

Agreeed. The guy was a straight up dick.

[Lord Seth]

I looked for the part where Cedric's comment was heard, but the shuffling didn't seem like it was actually taking that long; did I miss some important context?

[thecrav]

I looked for the part where Cedric's comment was heard, but the shuffling didn't seem like it was actually taking that long; did I miss some important context?

Burn player shuffles, passes deck. BUG player shuffles, passes deck back. Burn player starts shuffling again. That + the other stuff from before

[JPoJohnson]

Burn player shuffles, passes deck. BUG player shuffles, passes deck back. Burn player starts shuffling again. That + the other stuff from before

And the stuff just after where he has the card dance around on the playing field.

[bakofried]

To be honest? I thought the dancing Searing Blaze was kind of funny. It wasn't hurting anyone, and it's a welcome break from the monotony of player behavior. Dropping the deck was a party fowl, but even so. Likely accidental.

[danyul]

It's starting to feel kinda slummy to keep picking on the guy. But I just got home and, as promised, here are the timestamps.

http://www.twitch.tv/scglive/b/540596603?t=1691m20s
Where our hero learns how the SCG cameras work and writes a short-but-meaningful missive to his mother on the back of his life pad. I believe many Goblin Guide triggers are missed in this match as well.

http://www.twitch.tv/scglive/b/540596603?t=1986m30s
Where our hero relearns how the SCG cameras work and plays an opening fetchland in the most annoying way possible.

http://www.twitch.tv/scglive/b/540596603?t=2071m45s
Where our hero drops his opponent's deck all over the table and floor after a fetchland activation, prompting a "Who really wants to watch that? Just an embarrassing state of affairs" from Cedric.

http://www.twitch.tv/scglive/b/540596603?t=2152m
Where our hero gives one of the most eloquent speeches ever crafted and delivers an assisted handshake for the ages.

Okay. I'm done with this guy. Let's talk about something else now.

[Lemnear]

It's starting to feel kinda slummy to keep picking on the guy. But I just got home and, as promised, here are the timestamps.

http://www.twitch.tv/scglive/b/540596603?t=1691m20s
Where our hero learns how the SCG cameras work and writes a short-but-meaningful missive to his mother on the back of his life pad. I believe many Goblin Guide triggers are missed in this match as well.

http://www.twitch.tv/scglive/b/540596603?t=1986m30s
Where our hero relearns how the SCG cameras work and plays an opening fetchland in the most annoying way possible.

http://www.twitch.tv/scglive/b/540596603?t=2071m45s
Where our hero drops his opponent's deck all over the table and floor after a fetchland activation, prompting a "Who really wants to watch that? Just an embarrassing state of affairs" from Cedric.

http://www.twitch.tv/scglive/b/540596603?t=2152m
Where our hero gives one of the most eloquent speeches ever crafted and delivers an assisted handshake for the ages.

Okay. I'm done with this guy. Let's talk about something else now.

I'm late to the party and kinda amused about the top 16, but what's wrong with this guy? AHDS? coffee injection into his brain? Something along these? Geeez!

Maybe a smooth slap to his cheek would have helped ... like with a fist ... between his eyes

[Barook]

It's starting to feel kinda slummy to keep picking on the guy. But I just got home and, as promised, here are the timestamps.

http://www.twitch.tv/scglive/b/540596603?t=1691m20s
Where our hero learns how the SCG cameras work and writes a short-but-meaningful missive to his mother on the back of his life pad. I believe many Goblin Guide triggers are missed in this match as well.

http://www.twitch.tv/scglive/b/540596603?t=1986m30s
Where our hero relearns how the SCG cameras work and plays an opening fetchland in the most annoying way possible.

http://www.twitch.tv/scglive/b/540596603?t=2071m45s
Where our hero drops his opponent's deck all over the table and floor after a fetchland activation, prompting a "Who really wants to watch that? Just an embarrassing state of affairs" from Cedric.

http://www.twitch.tv/scglive/b/540596603?t=2152m
Where our hero gives one of the most eloquent speeches ever crafted and delivers an assisted handshake for the ages.

Okay. I'm done with this guy. Let's talk about something else now.
My gut feeling tells me that the guy suffers from ADHD.

[Purgatory]

It's starting to feel kinda slummy to keep picking on the guy. But I just got home and, as promised, here are the timestamps.

http://www.twitch.tv/scglive/b/540596603?t=1691m20s
Where our hero learns how the SCG cameras work and writes a short-but-meaningful missive to his mother on the back of his life pad. I believe many Goblin Guide triggers are missed in this match as well.

http://www.twitch.tv/scglive/b/540596603?t=1986m30s
Where our hero relearns how the SCG cameras work and plays an opening fetchland in the most annoying way possible.

http://www.twitch.tv/scglive/b/540596603?t=2071m45s
Where our hero drops his opponent's deck all over the table and floor after a fetchland activation, prompting a "Who really wants to watch that? Just an embarrassing state of affairs" from Cedric.

http://www.twitch.tv/scglive/b/540596603?t=2152m
Where our hero gives one of the most eloquent speeches ever crafted and delivers an assisted handshake for the ages.

Okay. I'm done with this guy. Let's talk about something else now.

What the hell did I just watch?

[mort-]

It's starting to feel kinda slummy to keep picking on the guy. But I just got home and, as promised, here are the timestamps.

http://www.twitch.tv/scglive/b/540596603?t=1691m20s
Where our hero learns how the SCG cameras work and writes a short-but-meaningful missive to his mother on the back of his life pad. I believe many Goblin Guide triggers are missed in this match as well.

http://www.twitch.tv/scglive/b/540596603?t=1986m30s
Where our hero relearns how the SCG cameras work and plays an opening fetchland in the most annoying way possible.

http://www.twitch.tv/scglive/b/540596603?t=2071m45s
Where our hero drops his opponent's deck all over the table and floor after a fetchland activation, prompting a "Who really wants to watch that? Just an embarrassing state of affairs" from Cedric.

http://www.twitch.tv/scglive/b/540596603?t=2152m
Where our hero gives one of the most eloquent speeches ever crafted and delivers an assisted handshake for the ages.

Okay. I'm done with this guy. Let's talk about something else now.

Now I feel sad. Explain to me why no one could beat this person.

[Barook]

Now I feel sad. Explain to me why no one could beat this person.
Because Burn is retard-proof and a viable deck now due to recent card additions.

Considering how easily distracted he was, I don't think he could have done well with any other deck, since even Sneak & Show requires a bit more playskill than Burn, although not that much.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

There is a reason I only play Vintage/Eternal: I end up mostly sitting across from reasonable, intelligent humans with diverse interests and decent manners, including lawyers, scientists, engineers, teachers, and various other responsible adults. But I suppose things may be different over there in your alternate reality with whatever magic pixie dust you're smoking.

[bakofried]

Burn is a predatory meta deck. Sure, it can just burn you out, but that's a small percentage of games. The deck has a much harder time against decks that don't walk into price of progress, or decks that don't play fast and loose with their life total. This isn't new information.

The meta was ripe for it. Oh well.

[Julian23]

My gut feeling tells me that the guy suffers from ADHD.

My immediate thought after watching these videos was that this guy had some kind of behaviour-altering disease.

[Lord Seth]

Burn player shuffles, passes deck. BUG player shuffles, passes deck back. Burn player starts shuffling again. That + the other stuff from beforeAh, got it.

And the stuff just after where he has the card dance around on the playing field.I didn't mind that so much, because his opponent really was taking his sweet time to decide whether to counter or not.

[Michael Keller]

My immediate thought after watching these videos was that this guy had some kind of behaviour-altering disease.

Even so, he is not exempt from the rules like everyone else shouldn't be.

That includes sportsmanship.

[bakofried]

Can we drop this? Dude fucked up, but being annoying shouldn't attract this much fascination.

As far as play goes, I'm way more confused by the Elves player grabbing Progenitus instead of Ruric Thar.

[Michael Keller]

Can we drop this? Dude fucked up, but being annoying shouldn't attract this much fascination.

As far as play goes, I'm way more confused by the Elves player grabbing Progenitus instead of Ruric Thar.

I actually think this does deserve some discussion. When you put a walking circus on camera, you're going to get people talking. And if this is the sort of behavior that is condoned by Star City, then I don't need to stay up watching this garbage and I'm sure others share the same sentiment.

At what point is enough enough? Cheating, horrible play, bad sportsmanship and immature behavior? Is there anything else I'm missing? Didn't the supposed "pro" Sam Black cheat on camera against Elves before, too? It's just mind-boggling that people can be that unprofessional sitting down in front of thousands of viewers and act like a complete joke without so much as having some pride in their performance.

And it is a big deal because going on camera for Star City can be a legacy killer or creator for who you are amongst your peers. [Sadly.]

[bakofried]

If you play well or get lucky, you could be on camera. They don't have prepped 'celebrities' to lunge in front of the camera to shield your special eyes. It's called an Open, after all.

Cheating is something they're working on and worth talking about. It's clear the table judges are busy with camera and streaming issues. They need to find a solution for this.

With re: horrible play, oh well. It's an open, even if someone terrible luck sacks there way into camera view, there's no sign saying they can't be there. And he quit that shit after he was called out on it.

I'm all for some jokes about this stuff, but it's getting to the point where it's distasteful. And don't get me wrong, I know the Source is kind of caustic, but most of the time there's some humor to it. Either make a funny, say something new, or move on.

Also, SCG has the most consistent streaming. When someone else does it, I'll watch that too. Maybe instead.

Also also, Ruric Thar. I'd really like an answer for that.

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk

[JPA]

If you play well or get lucky, you could be on camera. They don't have prepped 'celebrities' to lunge in front of the camera to shield your special eyes. It's called an Open, after all.

All the good players / "celebrities" were at GP Chicago. :/

[Michael Keller]

If you play well or get lucky, you could be on camera. They don't have prepped 'celebrities' to lunge in front of the camera to shield your special eyes. It's called an Open, after all.

It may be called an Open, but their choice of on-camera talent is biased. It doesn't take a genius to see if an individual with an acute behavioral problem is going to make an ass of him or herself and the company on a live stream so thousands can see. Cedric shared that sentiment openly.


Cheating is something they're working on and worth talking about. It's clear the table judges are busy with camera and streaming issues. They need to find a solution for this.

It's becoming commonplace, and there needs to be someone assigned to watch over these matches to ensure the integrity of not only the game in hand but the business is protected. Seriously, how damaged is SC's reputation given everything that has occurred since Bertoncini? It's out of control, and hopefully they do do something about it because it's becoming more and more of a circus to watch these matches.


With re: horrible play, oh well. It's an open, even if someone terrible luck sacks there way into camera view, there's no sign saying they can't be there. And he quit that shit after he was called out on it.

But isn't that the exact problem with the Open Series? It seems people just relegated their thought process now to, "Well, it's an Open - I expect inferior competition or an egregious amount of mistakes." In the grand scheme of things, it's rather disappointing because we should expect to be treated to something better. If it means being selectively biased as to who they are putting on camera, I'm fine with that. As long as the play is tight and someone doesn't act like they missed their dose of Xanax for the day.

It is worth mentioning though I like the fact they're giving people exposure and the chance to play a big game on camera. I get people react differently when they're being streamed because a lot of folks can see their every move, so people will always be overly critical about every single play. That doesn't bother me. What bothers me are the intangibles that occur after someone goes under the microscope, like an unknown cheater or someone with intent to sabotage. At this point, nothing is far-fetched given what's happened on camera.


I'm all for some jokes about this stuff, but it's getting to the point where it's distasteful. And don't get me wrong, I know the Source is kind of caustic, but most of the time there's some humor to it. Either make a funny, say something new, or move on.

This thread predicated itself on identifying issues with SCG, its coverage and everything associated with its coverage. I apologize if it's bewildering to listen to such a backlash, but honestly, it is what it is.

That's what this was made for.


Also, SCG has the most consistent streaming. When someone else does it, I'll watch that too. Maybe instead.

I'm crossing my fingers and waiting until it becomes reality. I just wish people took some more pride in their performance. Mistakes are completely fine, and having fun is part of the game. I just hope they advise their on-camera performers to understand the repercussions of acting like an idiot on camera and blemishing their image.

[danyul]

While I agree that this might merit some discussion, that doesn't mean we gotta call the guy names. I'm starting to feel sorry that I made such a big hullabaloo about this in the first place.

Storytime -
There used to be this super annoying kid who played at our local shop. He was well-intentioned and objectively nice, but just rubbed everybody the wrong way so we gave him shit constantly. Then one day he stopped showing up. And for the longest time we all worried that the kid might have gone and jumped off a bridge or something. People do wild things these days. You never know. So when he finally showed up again a few months later, we were all relieved that our casual teasing did not turn into the worst kind of bullying.

Is this white knighting? I dunno. Whatever. I brought it up and I feel kinda bad about it. Let's just pretend the guy is reading this and try to be a little kinder with our words.

As far as the Ruric Thar play, I was also a bit shocked by that. You can tell he was thinking it over quite a bit, though. I think he was on the cusp of making the right play and for whatever reason choose the wrong monster. It's just that easy to make a mistake in this game. Last night I fetched out a Progenitus vs Pox with two other creatures in play. My opponent then matter of factly cast an Ensnaring Bridge into three sac effects. He later told me that Ruric Thar would have been a much better play. And he was right. But Progenitus often *feels* safer than it actually is. And when you have been playing for X rounds and it's damn near midnight, sometimes you find yourself playing by your gut. And that's not usually the best way to play.

[Megadeus]

http://www.twitch.tv/scglive/b/540596603?t=1992m

~30s in at 33:12:30s

I lol'd. I mean he isn't wrong... After two days, you want these matches to get over with and go the hell home.

[Arsenal]

I've always viewed SCG Opens as 300+ player FNMs, to be honest. The level of playskill, the personalities, etc are all about at the local FNM level. The notion, unfortunately perpetuated by some users of this very forum, that Legacy is some "gentlemen's" format teeming with mature, well-socialized, responsible adults is completely false.

[Dragonslayer_90]

I've always viewed SCG Opens as 300+ player FNMs, to be honest. The level of playskill, the personalities, etc are all about at the local FNM level. The notion, unfortunately perpetuated by some users of this very forum, that Legacy is some "gentlemen's" format teeming with mature, well-socialized, responsible adults is completely false.

I actually agree with Arsenal on this one, that legacy is not really a "gentleman's format" as much as I love it. This does not only apply to the level of star city opens. I've also had to play with people that I would rather not hang out with at various local game stores for legacy where I have to tolerate various kinds of crappy people. Vintage maybe the only format that can still claim that title since it's still vastly more expensive than legacy.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Nothing you do in Vintage should ever be construed as "gentlemanly."

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

[Dragonslayer_90]

Nothing you do in Vintage should ever be construed as "gentlemanly."

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

So what you're saying is that Vintage is the format where gentleman in real life let out their repressed primal rage and desires by doing ungentelmanly things?

[Arsenal]

Meh, I'm perfectly fine with the way SCG Opens are set up and ran. I just don't agree with others on this forum that believe Legacy is something it actually isn't and that SCG Open should be the gatekeeper of what is socially acceptable and not. Obnoxious douchetards are everywhere in every walk of life, Magic is no exception. You take the good with the bad, or take nothing at all.

[ESG]

But Progenitus often *feels* safer than it actually is.

Don't trust the hydra.

[Michael Keller]

I actually agree with Arsenal on this one, that legacy is not really a "gentleman's format" as much as I love it. This does not only apply to the level of star city opens. I've also had to play with people that I would rather not hang out with at various local game stores for legacy where I have to tolerate various kinds of crappy people. Vintage maybe the only format that can still claim that title since it's still vastly more expensive than legacy.

I do believe it is a fallacy to assume that just because you own dual lands or other expensive cards and play Legacy you are exempt from being considered childish or immature. A Magic: the Gathering format doesn't dictate the personality traits of an individual, no matter how much we would like to believe it's true.

Considering how expensive the barrier to Legacy can be, it's obvious a good percentage of people borrow cards or decks.

Or buy Walmart-esque Burn decks and win 300-person FNMs.

[Ace/Homebrew]

Let's just pretend the guy is reading this and try to be a little kinder with our words.
I heard he punches babies and hates our troops! :tongue:


Being annoying shouldn't attract this much fascination.
We're all familiar with Magic right? Abnormal IS normal... :rolleyes:

[ahg113]

I do believe it is a fallacy to assume that just because you own dual lands or other expensive cards and play Legacy you are exempt from being considered childish or immature. A Magic: the Gathering format doesn't dictate the personality traits of an individual, no matter how much we would like to believe it's true.

Considering how expensive the barrier to Legacy can be, it's obvious a good percentage of people borrow cards or decks.

Or buy Walmart-esque Burn decks and win 300-person FNMs.

Where is the Walmart I keep hearing about selling these complete, and now SCG Open winning, Burn Decks? Does Walmart sell any other type of established Legacy decks, like Reanimator?

All I see are new sealed product noob stuff, and a few singles packs of whatever the heck enclosed in a cardboard backer.

[Tormod]

Meh, I'm perfectly fine with the way SCG Opens are set up and ran. I just don't agree with others on this forum that believe Legacy is something it actually isn't and that SCG Open should be the gatekeeper of what is socially acceptable and not. Obnoxious douchetards are everywhere in every walk of life, Magic is no exception. You take the good with the bad, or take nothing at all.

QFT

I'm pretty entertained by the coverage when the pros are away. The same pros playing the same decks is fucking boring.

Calling out the guy seems lame. He's like what 23? 25? I turn 40 this year so kids being immature is something to be expected. No need for "Awkward nerd shaming?"

[bakofried]

Look, if you get greedy with your manabase or abuse your life total, you'll be punished by Burn. All that deck does is punish greed. Why is that a bad thing?

[Parcher]

Look, if you get greedy with your manabase or abuse your life total, you'll be punished by Burn. All that deck does is punish greed. Why is that a bad thing?

230

[Lord_Mcdonalds]

ITT: Neckbeards discussing their hatred for a spastic burn player

That said, none of the players in that top 8 were particularly high quality, better the spastic burn player who elicited a couple of decent laughs in that case

[JDK]

http://www.twitch.tv/scglive/b/540596603?t=2071m45s
Where our hero drops his opponent's deck all over the table and floor after a fetchland activation, prompting a "Who really wants to watch that? Just an embarrassing state of affairs" from Cedric.

A few minutes later he reveals another card from his opponent's deck while shuffling.

How did this guy not get buried in a pile of infractions? Is he the retarded kid of some SCG boss?

The burn mirror was like watching two potheads trying to play their first game of magic.

[Dragonslayer_90]

Look, if you get greedy with your manabase or abuse your life total, you'll be punished by Burn. All that deck does is punish greed. Why is that a bad thing?

I don't think people have a problem with burn punishing greed. It's just tilting how anyone can just pick up burn and crush other players who play decks vastly more decision intensive. If someone like Patrick Sullivan or some more respectable individual had won the open or the player who won didn't miss goblin guide triggers I'm sure people wouldn't be flaming him as much.

[Lemnear]

I don't think people have a problem with burn punishing greed. It's just tilting how anyone can just pick up burn and crush other players who play decks vastly more decision intensive. If someone like Patrick Sullivan or some more respectable individual had won the open or the player who won didn't miss goblin guide triggers I'm sure people wouldn't be flaming him as much.

Seriously, the game is already on a pathway where simple, streamlined decks wield a higher success rate than decks with a lot of options and complex decision trees spread over turns. It's not that Doomsday rewards playskill compared to how much easier and stonger S&T into Griselbrand is. It's a longterm design desaster that Burn.dec is a more successful Aggro-type than Zoo over a timeframe of 3 years now and that successful control starts with T1 Delver or SDT followed by durdling for the next 5 turns without more decisions than "keep Delver alive"

[Purgatory]

Seriously, the game is already on a pathway where simple, streamlined decks wield a higher success rate than decks with a lot of options and complex decision trees spread over turns. It's not that Doomsday rewards playskill compared to how much easier and stonger S&T into Griselbrand is. It's a longterm design desaster that Burn.dec is a more successful Aggro-type than Zoo over a timeframe of 3 years now and that successful control starts with T1 Delver or SDT followed by durdling for the next 5 turns without more decisions than "keep Delver alive"

You're saying Miracles doesn't have complex decision trees?

[Bed Decks Palyer]

Seriously, the game is already on a pathway where simple, streamlined decks wield a higher success rate than decks with a lot of options and complex decision trees spread over turns. It's not that Doomsday rewards playskill compared to how much easier and stonger S&T into Griselbrand is. It's a longterm design desaster that Burn.dec is a more successful Aggro-type than Zoo over a timeframe of 3 years now and that successful control starts with T1 Delver or SDT followed by durdling for the next 5 turns without more decisions than "keep Delver alive"

It was always like this. Tinker->Collosus, etc. I'm not saying skill-intensive decks were never present, or anything like that, but whenever you played a "hard to master, high learning curve, unforgiving of mistakes,etc." kind of deck, you asked for all sorts of trouble.

[Lemnear]

You're saying Miracles doesn't have complex decision trees?

No, I'm saying that we are looking at a deck with a very linear strategic approach which most current successful archetypes have in common.

Like BDP mentioned above, the simple training-wheel options are not only the most successful but also the most overpowered, which I feel is the wrong way for MTG as it rewards streamlined deckbuilding (see the usual Brainstorm + Ponder core in like every blue Legacy deck from control to combo) and dumbs down the game and players

[Bed Decks Palyer]

No, I'm saying that we are looking at a deck with a very linear strategic approach which most current successful archetypes have in common.

Like BDP mentioned above, the simple training-wheel options are not only the most successful but also the most overpowered, which I feel is the wrong way for MTG as it rewards streamlined deckbuilding (see the usual Brainstorm + Ponder core in like every blue Legacy deck from control to combo) to a pure choice of kill-option only

It'll be an interesting history lesson to make some list of successful decks of past and split them into linear and non-linear.
Decks like NQG, Burn, Affinity, were definitely linear. How about Goblins? Not exactly. Landstill was surely a non-linear deck, am I right? So was pre-Vengevine, toolbox-based SotF. Well, but there were hundreds of successful decks through the history of game and all of its formats, it's impossible to sort them all.

[Lemnear]

It'll be an interesting history lesson to make some list of successful decks of past and split them into linear and non-linear.
Decks like NQG, Burn, Affinity, were definitely linear. How about Goblins? Not exactly. Landstill was surely a non-linear deck, am I right? So was pre-Vengevine, toolbox-based SotF. Well, but there were hundreds of successful decks through the history of game and all of its formats, it's impossible to sort them all.

Well, old landstill had to decide between drawing cards with FoF, tapping out for Wrath, dropping Standstill, deploy lands for Decree of Justice or attack with manlands. If you compare this to miracles, which only drops lands while endlessly spinning the Top for Counterbalance or Terminus, I would def. say that landstill was less linear in it's gameplan.

The same is true for a lot of old Vintage decks like Slaver, TPS or Legacy's finest like Survival Advantage or Goblins, all decks which were able to switch their gameplan an adapt to different situations, which nowadays isn't relevant anymore because of supreme all-in-one win-conditions like Griselbrand (creature, lifegain and carddraw), Emrakul (creature, timewalk, protects itself, permanent removal), Jace (wincon, carddraw and creature removal), and others

[gregtron]

Well, old landstill had to decide between drawing cards with FoF, tapping out for Wrath, dropping Standstill, deploy lands for Decree of Justice or attack with manlands. If you compare this to miracles, which only drops lands while endlessly spinning the Top for Counterbalance or Terminus, I would def. say that landstill was less linear in it's gameplan.

The number of triggers a Miracles player needs to juggle and and resolve while racing the clock makes the deck more difficult to pilot than some people give it credit for. Both decks have to juggle proactive vs. reactive control elements, but Miracles exists in a format that is arguably much faster and more punishing than the one in which Landstill existed. Neither deck is a breeze to play, but you can't blame someone for choosing Entreat and Terminus over Landstill and Faerie Conclave.

But, even then, who cares? A player should play a deck that leverages their skill and knowledge in the most effective way possible.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

Ok, back to bashing the Burn Hero.

So, except for the times when Camidge made the camera jokes - speaking of that, we each have our own ways how to relieve the stress, so it's not like he should be frowned upon becasue he sent a message to his mom -, did everyone miss that for the most part of the match, we see only their hands? So the infamous Dancing Burn Spell maybe wasn't that bad: are you sure that both guys didn't have a good laugh? I've seen (and played) matches where both parties had a lot of fun, while for the spectators it might have looked completely silly. But neither I nor Cabidge are playing for the masses, we go to tourneys for ourselves. Should he be more dignified when on cameras? Maybe yes, maybe no. He came to play and have fun, so unless he annoyed the opponent and table judge, there's nothing wrong in what he has done. There are tons of wannabe pros that act and pretend like the fate of the world depends on their Brainstorm, so why not some change for once; dude definitely wasn't neither an SCG's employee, nor mourner at dark funeral, so let him smile.

[Michael Keller]

There are tons of wannabe pros that act and pretend like the fate of the world depends on their Brainstorm, so why not some change for once; dude definitely wasn't neither an SCG's employee, nor mourner at dark funeral, so let him smile.

There are no such thing as "pros" in Magic: the Gathering.

[aahz]

There is a reason I only play Vintage/Eternal: I end up mostly sitting across from reasonable, intelligent humans with diverse interests and decent manners, including lawyers, scientists, engineers, teachers, and various other responsible adults. But I suppose things may be different over there in your alternate reality with whatever magic pixie dust you're smoking.
I stand by that. Notice that I didn't specifically mention Legacy. I was implying Old School there with "Eternal" opposite Vintage.
For evidence see here (http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=46493.0) (also here (pics) (http://www.eternalcentral.com/nyse2coverage/) and here (decklists) (http://www.eternalcentral.com/nyse2decklistsmetagamereport/)).

[Lemnear]

The number of triggers a Miracles player needs to juggle and and resolve while racing the clock makes the deck more difficult to pilot than some people give it credit for. Both decks have to juggle proactive vs. reactive control elements, but Miracles exists in a format that is arguably much faster and more punishing than the one in which Landstill existed. Neither deck is a breeze to play, but you can't blame someone for choosing Entreat and Terminus over Landstill and Faerie Conclave.

But, even then, who cares? A player should play a deck that leverages their skill and knowledge in the most effective way possible.

The point is that Miracles is a deck that relies on a single card: SDT. Without that card the whole deck and concept struggles. While you have decisions to make thoughout a game, the simple and linear core-strategy is to cast SDT and making your landdrops while your manipulated topdeck controls the stack and board via Counterbalance and Terminus. SDT is (like Delver and others) a card that is so strong that even linear strategies can be successful without the need for Plan B's

[Julian23]

SDT is (like Delver and others) a card that is so strong that even linear strategies can be successful without the need for Plan B's

Which is the one reason I consider Miracles a rather dull deck with a significant lack of depth in gameplay. That doesn't of course mean that it's a weak deck; in my eyes it's still the most dominant strategy there currently is in Legacy whether you like it or not.

[Lemnear]

Which is the one reason I consider Miracles a rather dull deck with a significant lack of depth in gameplay. That doesn't of course mean that it's a weak deck; in my eyes it's still the most dominant strategy there currently is in Legacy whether you like it or not.

It is and as you know, it took me the time to foil out my Miracles, to realize that I don't like that linearity xD

[Darkenslight]

Which is the one reason I consider Miracles a rather dull deck with a significant lack of depth in gameplay. That doesn't of course mean that it's a weak deck; in my eyes it's still the most dominant strategy there currently is in Legacy whether you like it or not.

Indeed - Miracles is arguably the strongest hard-control deck in the format, but you need to put in a lot of hours before you'll even become competent with it, and SDT is the card in it. Terminus is its best sweeper, and Entreat and Jace are amazing wincons, but the lynchpin is the Slow Death Top, which allows you to use CB as a soft-lock, and draws on your opponents' turn to Miracle like it's the Rapture.

[JPoJohnson]

Ok, back to bashing the Burn Hero.

So, except for the times when Camidge made the camera jokes - speaking of that, we each have our own ways how to relieve the stress, so it's not like he should be frowned upon becasue he sent a message to his mom -, did everyone miss that for the most part of the match, we see only their hands? So the infamous Dancing Burn Spell maybe wasn't that bad: are you sure that both guys didn't have a good laugh? I've seen (and played) matches where both parties had a lot of fun, while for the spectators it might have looked completely silly. But neither I nor Cabidge are playing for the masses, we go to tourneys for ourselves. Should he be more dignified when on cameras? Maybe yes, maybe no. He came to play and have fun, so unless he annoyed the opponent and table judge, there's nothing wrong in what he has done. There are tons of wannabe pros that act and pretend like the fate of the world depends on their Brainstorm, so why not some change for once; dude definitely wasn't neither an SCG's employee, nor mourner at dark funeral, so let him smile.

I honestly have no issue with the dancing burn spell alone. I do goofy things during games all the time, sure. It's the combination of everything that made each act overwhelming.

[Scott]

I still have my deck theory training wheels on, and it would be cool if anyone wants to take a stab at ranking the linearity of Legacy decks, to give me a leg up.

[HammerAndSickled]

Lemnear can speak for himself about his opinion on it, but in my opinion linear decks are the ones where you do a very similar thing each round despite the opponent. Delver decks play guys, disrupt the opponent/protect the threat, and draw cards. Sneak and Show puts a fatty into play every game and counters anything remotely threatening. Stax tries to put as many lock pieces into play as possible to stop the opponent from doing much of anything. Miracles, as stated above, always wants to be generating small advantages through Top synergies like fetchlands, miracles, CB, and making land drops.

Meanwhile, a non-linear deck does something markedly different in each matchup based on the opponent's deck and their play. A good example is one like Death and Taxes (prioritizing mana denial vs threats, what threats/disrupting elements to play in what order), Storm (though your operations are the same each game, the decision points involved in playing around various forms of disruption can vary wildly. Playing against hard countermagic is different from soft, discard is different from hate permanents, etc. Especially Burning Wish builds with lots of nuanced engine cards to choose from.) or Lands (choosing when to go for protecting yourself versus denying your opponent resources, when to push the denial hard and when to use your mana proactively, going for the combo early or when it's protected, tutor packages for specific answers, etc.)

[Lemnear]

I still have my deck theory training wheels on, and it would be cool if anyone wants to take a stab at ranking the linearity of Legacy decks, to give me a leg up.

For what purpose? I expect that browsing decklists and concepts from the last 5/10/20 years is a lot of work and ranking stuff like linearity, which isn't clearly defined, results into a subjective lists which maybe ends up as hilarious as the infamous Article about how difficult decks are to play earlier this year.

The point is, that never before in MTG's history, decks basically relying on a single card or two, were more successful than today. This caused a vanishing of alternate wincons or Plan B's in Legacy's decks, which was a common trait to sidestep hate and adapt to opposing strategies till the mid 2000's. After that, something changed and top performing Legacy decks were able to drop situational cards and alternate wincons while streamlining their decks. I'm sure the reason for this development was the powercreep as a result of a new design philosphy started with the Introduction of the new frame in Mirrodin and the effect only got more obvious as you can see on Tarmogoyf which was THE card during it's time and successfully played in any Shell from aggro to control. Today we have a similar menace in Form of SFM which people just Splash in ANY shell and call it a day (I saw Affinity + SFM in this forum popping up ... Wierd), Delver decks in 8 different flavors which claim to be independent deck concepts (which is total nonsense imo) and cards like SDT or S&T which define successful top tier archetypes BY ITSELF.

I guess the Hive Mind can come up with a shitload of non-linear concepts from the past and present and so can you, but I doubt that the info is any helpful


Edit:

Lemnear can speak for himself about his opinion on it, but in my opinion linear decks are the ones where you do a very similar thing each round despite the opponent. Delver decks play guys, disrupt the opponent/protect the threat, and draw cards. Sneak and Show puts a fatty into play every game and counters anything remotely threatening. Stax tries to put as many lock pieces into play as possible to stop the opponent from doing much of anything. Miracles, as stated above, always wants to be generating small advantages through Top synergies like fetchlands, miracles, CB, and making land drops.

Meanwhile, a non-linear deck does something markedly different in each matchup based on the opponent's deck and their play. A good example is one like Death and Taxes (prioritizing mana denial vs threats, what threats/disrupting elements to play in what order), Storm (though your operations are the same each game, the decision points involved in playing around various forms of disruption can vary wildly. Playing against hard countermagic is different from soft, discard is different from hate permanents, etc. Especially Burning Wish builds with lots of nuanced engine cards to choose from.) or Lands (choosing when to go for protecting yourself versus denying your opponent resources, when to push the denial hard and when to use your mana proactively, going for the combo early or when it's protected, tutor packages for specific answers, etc.)

That's actually the bigger picture I was paining. The issue for me is that today the decks which have an ever-same gameplan a) barely have to adapt to opposing strategies anymore, b) can opperate on the back of a single card and c) are more successful than ever before.


Edit 2: Maybe this should move to it's own thread as the discussion went too far away from the basic topic which was SCG/WotC coverage

[Megadeus]

Today we have a similar menace in Form of SFM which people just Splash in ANY shell and call it a day (I saw Affinity + SFM in this forum popping up ... Wierd),

To be fair, Affinity does play Cranial Plating as one of its most powerful cards. SFM being able to tutor it up while also making it uncounterable seems good.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

For what purpose? I expect that browsing decklists and concepts from the last 5/10/20 years is a lot of work and ranking stuff like linearity, which isn't clearly defined, results into a subjective lists which maybe ends up as hilarious as the infamous Article about how difficult decks are to play earlier this year.

The point is, that never before in MTG's history, decks basically relying on a single card or two, were more successful than today. This caused a vanishing of alternate wincons or Plan B's in Legacy's decks, which was a common trait to sidestep hate and adapt to opposing strategies till the mid 2000's. After that, something changed and top performing Legacy decks were able to drop situational cards and alternate wincons while streamlining their decks. I'm sure the reason for this development was the powercreep as a result of a new design philosphy started with the Introduction of the new frame in Mirrodin and the effect only got more obvious as you can see on Tarmogoyf which was THE card during it's time and successfully played in any Shell from aggro to control. Today we have a similar menace in Form of SFM which people just Splash in ANY shell and call it a day (I saw Affinity + SFM in this forum popping up ... Wierd), Delver decks in 8 different flavors which claim to be independent deck concepts (which is total nonsense imo) and cards like SDT or S&T which define successful top tier archetypes BY ITSELF.

I guess the Hive Mind can come up with a shitload of non-linear concepts from the past and present and so can you, but I doubt that the info is any helpful


Edit:


That's actually the bigger picture I was paining. The issue for me is that today the decks which have an ever-same gameplan a) barely have to adapt to opposing strategies anymore, b) can opperate on the back of a single card and c) are more successful than ever before.


Edit 2: Maybe this should move to it's own thread as the discussion went too far away from the basic topic which was SCG/WotC coverage
Lemnear, this post of yours is brilliant and I really like it, you summed several of my thoughts that I'm unable to verbalize. I give you a likey, and I hope that this will lead to some discussion!

[Lemnear]

To be fair, Affinity does play Cranial Plating as one of its most powerful cards. SFM being able to tutor it up while also making it uncounterable seems good.

The nonsense is within splashing white first and then willingly investing 2 turns to fetch and play Cranial Plating in a swarm Aggro deck

Edit :

Lemnear, this post of yours is brilliant and I really like it, you summed several of my thoughts that I'm unable to verbalize. I give you a likey, and I hope that this will lead to some discussion!

Moments of enlightment during a 6am subway ride with a homeless still snoozing in the train :/

[JDK]

UR Delver and e.g. RUG are not different concepts?

[Megadeus]

The nonsense is within splashing white first and then willingly investing 2 turns to fetch and play Cranial Plating in a swarm Aggro deck

Edit :


Moments of enlightment during a 6am subway ride with a homeless still snoozing in the train :/

I've known affinity to play white for dispatch for awhile. I never was a huge fan of stone forge, but it doesn't seem terrible in the deck. I'm just pointing out that it certainly isn't a new idea. Whether or not it is good is a topic for that thread.

[Koby]

UR Delver and e.g. RUG are not different concepts?

As a core concept? No. As an implementation, yes.

Both are aggro-control decks that rely on tempo to win before opponents are fully setup to play "Magic".

[Dragonslayer_90]

As a core concept? No. As an implementation, yes.

Both are aggro-control decks that rely on tempo to win before opponents are fully setup to play "Magic".

Can I get a definition of what it means to play "Magic"? I've seen this kind of concept thrown around so much to denigrate x deck and/or y format that it gets really annoying.

[Megadeus]

I think he means in reference to a deck being able to play whatever game they are equipped to play. Delver is winning before a deck can get a set up and execute their game plan, or in Kobys words "play magic"

[Koby]

Can I get a definition of what it means to play "Magic"? I've seen this kind of concept thrown around so much to denigrate x deck and/or y format that it gets really annoying.

Playing "Magic", or how you don't get to play "Magic"

You're piloting D&T. You're dead before your Aether Vial ticks up to 2 counters.

You're piloting Canadian Threshold. Your opponent destroys every single land you've played for the entire game.

You're playing ANT. Your opponent plays Thalia, followed by Gaddock Teeg, and proceeds to Wasteland your lands.

i.e., you were never in the game to execute your deck's objectives.

[JDK]

As a core concept? No. As an implementation, yes.

Both are aggro-control decks that rely on tempo to win before opponents are fully setup to play "Magic".

By this definition we can break down each deck to it's respective (sub-)archetype and call it a day.
"Oh SnT and ANT both try to sculpt their hands and resolve their combo, totally the same concept"

I guess we focus on different parts as of what is a deck's concept. You probably refer to it as it's archetype and I see it as a specific strategy. Anyway, we got way OT already...

[menace13]

By this definition we can break down each deck to it's respective (sub-)archetype and call it a day.
"Oh SnT and ANT both try to sculpt their hands and resolve their combo, totally the same concept"
..
You would be retarded if you believed that.

In your example every blue deck with cantrips and or Top is the same. Delver decks are closer to other Delver decks than the decks that share cantrips.

[Lemnear]

By this definition we can break down each deck to it's respective (sub-)archetype and call it a day.
"Oh SnT and ANT both try to sculpt their hands and resolve their combo, totally the same concept"

I guess we focus on different parts as of what is a deck's concept. You probably refer to it as it's archetype and I see it as a specific strategy. Anyway, we got way OT already...

Come on ... There is quite a conceptional difference between "assemble S&T/SA + creature" and "manage your mana, opponents possible countermeasures and handcards while chaining 10 spells" (see my previous topic in this thread)

What doesn't matter from a conceptional core is if you screw your opponent with Stifle and Wasteland or via Hymn and Wasteland while your Delver Beats your opponent to a bloody pulp. It doesn't matter either if you protect your SFM with Discard or Counters or if you clear the way for it with Liliana or Lightning Bolts (Deathblade vs Patriot topic)

[JDK]

You would be retarded if you believed that.

In your example every blue deck with cantrips and or Top is the same. Delver decks are closer to other Delver decks than the decks that share cantrips.
Apparently you didn't catch the cynical reference.


Come on ... There is quite a conceptional difference between "assemble S&T/SA + creature" and "manage your mana, opponents possible countermeasures and handcards while chaining 10 spells" (see my previous topic in this thread)

What doesn't matter from a conceptional core is if you screw your opponent with Stifle and Wasteland or via Hymn and Wasteland while your Delver Beats your opponent to a bloody pulp. It doesn't matter either if you protect your SFM with Discard or Counters or if you clear the way for it with Liliana or Lightning Bolts (Deathblade vs Patriot topic)
Of course there is a difference in SnT and Storm. This was just an exaggerated analogy (though one can argue you also have to keep countermeasures etc in mind if you play SnT...and the opponent's hand doesn't really matter anymore at a certain point :tongue:).

However, I still think there is some truth in distinguishing Delver.dec by concept. RUG and BUG are very similar, of course. UR, on the other hand, plays differently, as you don't focus on disruption and mana-denial to create tempo. You focus on being the aggressor. Of course there are similarities, but in my opinion they are not enough to call them (conceptually) the same deck. That's my opinion and obviously you have your own. No need circlejerk around any longer. ^^

[Koby]

UR and RUG Delver are much closer in strategy than RUG and BUG Delvers. The core similarity in the former is their use of Lightning Bolt (et al) to shorten the window an opponent has to interact. BUG Delver can still lose with its opponent at 1 life.

[Higgs]

Deathrite gives BUG reach for 2 life.

[Lemnear]

Deathrite gives BUG reach for 2 life.

Lightning Bolt gives RUG reach for 3 life.

No matter how you turn it, Delver decks remain similar.

[Richard Cheese]

Deathrite gives BUG reach for 2 life.

Everything is linear!

Miracles: Play Top, then play Counterbalance. Sit on that until you find a Jace/Entreat. In case of emergency, break glass on Force/Terminus.
Elves: Cast elves, glimpse into more elves. GSZ/NO for Hoof and swing for a billion.
D&T: Cast Vial, then use it to drop annoying creatures while jacking up their manabase with Port/Waste.
* Delver: Cast Delver, flip that shit. Swing with Delver while countering or killing anything that could stop or race it.
* Post: Play lands, hardcast Primetime, then Eldrazi.
*blade: Stoneforge -> Batterskull. Jace. Bounce/counter anything important.
Reanimator: Bin a fattie, bring it back. Maybe do it again.
Burn: Play burn spells. Target your opponent, unless they have a creature that could gain them life.
*Show: Use show and tell to put something so ridiculously overpowered it should never actually hit play...into play. Counter counters.
Jund: Play guys. Swing while taking anything good with discard and clearing a path with burn.
Storm: Play a bunch of spells, make a bunch of mana, Tendrils for 20+
Imperial Painter: Cast Blood Moon on turn 1. Assemble combo, or just attack with Simian Spirit Guide 10 times.
Nic Fit: Just play all your favorite kitchen table/Standard cards because "lol 8 basics". Shuffle 80 times per game.

[JDK]

BUG Delver can still lose with its opponent at 1 life.
Yup, no other (Delver-)deck can do this.

[Barook]

The Legacy stream is starting now.

First match is Sneak & Show vs Imperial Painter.

[mort-]

The Legacy stream is starting now.

First match is Sneak & Show vs Imperial Painter.

Whelp.. and the first two games thrown away for this evening :D

[bakofried]

Yay, fifteen minutes of standard.

[JDK]

Literally everytime I've opened the stream today (4th time just now), I was presented with a T2 replay. Not sure if bad luck or excess of downtimes and bad choice of replay material. :rolleyes:

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Chapin: Hushwing Gryff is absolutely playable in legacy (just put a couple in D&T) and we should unban Timetwister.

Who gave this guy a microphone?

Edit: How did he search for trop (the infect player)? I can't see a fetch...

[Barook]

Chapin: Hushwing Gryff is absolutely playable in legacy (just put a couple in D&T) and we should unban Timetwister.

Who gave this guy a microphone?
Timetwister is save, but Earthcraft is busted, especially since Enchantress is already a thing in Legacy? :eyebrow:

Hushwing Gryff is also good in D&T since they appearently don't have lots of important CiP effects. *cough* SFM *cough* Flickerwisp *cough*. :rolleyes:

Is Chapin high or just plain inept?

[Secretly.A.Bee]

I put my ballot in on that guy long ago, and I voted 'stupid'.

[Barook]

Are they actually trying to stream Legacy this time or do they just have Chapin babbling and ranting about random shit with little sprinkels of actual Legacy gameplay thrown in?

[J.V.]

To say that the diarrhea that comes out of Pat Chapin's mouth hurts my brain would be a really large understatement. He makes Cedric Phillips' commentary sound reasonable and I'm pretty sure he is working with a 75 IQ.

Also the fact that no one on SCG can ever keep up with a game state is just infuriating...

[thecrav]

Also the fact that no one on SCG can ever keep up with a game state is just infuriating...

In that High Tide / Infect match, it seemed like they would've had a lot better grasp of what was going on if they'd stop talking about Standard decks from 1976.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

God, people actually prefer Chapin to Matthias? What the hell?

[J.V.]

In that High Tide / Infect match, it seemed like they would've had a lot better grasp of what was going on if they'd stop talking about Standard decks from 1976.

Agreed.

[bakofried]

When is Chapin going to realize all his Jace jokes are terrible?

[Megadeus]

Brainstorm is not busted because it was fair in standard. Preordain is disgusting, brainstorm is fair, because of their applications in their respective standard environments.

[HammerAndSickled]

Cedric suggesting that Leyline of Sanctity isn't worth boarding against ANT...

[Secretly.A.Bee]

At least he admitted that he was wrong.

[Megadeus]

Feline getting smashed two games in a row with CB SB. I am pretty sure I have said it in this thread before, but that seems so bad. I think I have seen her win 1 time on cam with counterbalance.

[JDK]

CB is bad in High Tide? Wow, that's news. :wink:

[Michael Keller]

To say that the diarrhea that comes out of Pat Chapin's mouth hurts my brain would be a really large understatement. He makes Cedric Phillips' commentary sound reasonable and I'm pretty sure he is working with a 75 IQ.

Also the fact that no one on SCG can ever keep up with a game state is just infuriating...

Agreed.

[bakofried]

In Cedric's defense, I think the point he was making was fair. Essentially, storm can still kill you if they go off, and there's the pressure to mulligan to it, etc.... but that's a consideration for deck construction, not sideboarding purposes.

[GoblinSettler]

When is Chapin going to realize all his Jace jokes are terrible?

Hmm, I'd say they're better than all.

[Barook]

Watching two TNN-equipment decks duking it out is like watching retarded children beating the crap out of each other.

At least we don't have to listen to Chapin's storytime anymore.

[thecrav]

Watching two TNN-equipment decks duking it out is like watching retarded children beating the crap out of each other.

http://randowant.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/bopper-11.jpg

[thecrav]

Neither commentator paying attention that game...

Ryan brainstorms, keeping (and showing us) force, 2 stifle, 1 other card, passes turn
John starts to combo, plays dark ritual, ryan forces keeping stifle
"oh wow, pitching stifle there is ominous.... what other blue card could he have"
John pacts the force
John activates charbelcher
Ryan stifles it
"Now it's going to take a lot of time for John to rebuild his mana to activate again"
John passes turn, Ryan passes back, John loses to his pact

[LDX]

THE CABAL RITUAL FLIP!

+infinite style points for the win

[Undomian]

Chapin on Oops All Spells:


This deck is horrendous!

At least he got something right.

[Bertrand Hustle]

asdfjkioasdf'klasdf

7-1 all spells

[Lemnear]

asdfjkioasdf'klasdf

7-1 all spells

FoW's out of stock? ;P

[JPoJohnson]

asdfjkioasdf'klasdf

7-1 all spells

Law of Averages dictates that at some point someone will get lucky with a pile.

[Bertrand Hustle]

Law of Averages dictates that at some point someone will get lucky with a pile.
When someone does get lucky that doesn't mean there won't be a collective suprise/sigh/cheer/whatever when a glass cannon rogue like this gets far. You can't necessarily dictate when an outlying event such as this will happen. That's why things are called surprise! I'm not sure whether to assess your post at face value or not so I'll go ahead with that.


FoW's out of stock? ;P
Yeah, I was thinking about how interesting it would be to look at his brackets.


Directly on topic: Chapin talking about Kanye rapping a Wasteland song...

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Stop bringing credence to Chapin's foolish ramblings. Ignore his stupid ass-hattery.

He could have just tapped the second Grove in response to the clique.

[thecrav]

Knowing that would require that you pay attention to the match. We're too busy talking about what rappers and basketball players might play magic.

[Bertrand Hustle]

Knowing that would require that you pay attention to the match. We're too busy talking about what rappers and basketball players might play magic.

Yeah, them calling Abrupt Decay "Punishing Fire".

[Michael Keller]

When someone does get lucky that doesn't mean there won't be a collective suprise/sigh/cheer/whatever when a glass cannon rogue like this gets far. You can't necessarily dictate when an outlying event such as this will happen. That's why things are called surprise! I'm not sure whether to assess your post at face value or not so I'll go ahead with that.


Yeah, I was thinking about how interesting it would be to look at his brackets.


Directly on topic: Chapin talking about Kanye rapping a Wasteland song...

Didn't he make a rap CD for SCGs at one point? Some of their products just seem completely awful, like the Brian Kibler play-mat. What a joke.

Would certainly make a good doormat or mat for my dog's food and water, though.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

How do you expect the animal to keep anything down looking at Kibler? Jk.

[bakofried]

Updates on top 8? SCG hasn't posted decklists.

[Darkenslight]

Chapin really needs to be fired. Preferably out of the Goblin Cannon.

[Barook]

Chapin really needs to be fired. Preferably out of the Goblin Cannon.
And then Chapin tells a lame ass story about Goblin Cannon from a time nobody cares about.

I wouldn't mind a story here and there, but not just babbling all the time while not paying attention to the games or even the goddamn format which is his fucking job is too much.

I didn't mind him that much before, but I'll be damned if he isn't infuriating today.

[Will_L]

Chapin really needs to be fired. Preferably out of the Goblin Cannon.

He is so intolerable... and distracted by next to anything. I can only take so many irrelevant and unfunny anecdotes about the time you played Demonfire

The worst part is he goes on AND ON... Like putting a little personality into your broadcasting is fine, but don't tell 5-8 minute bullshit stories when a match is going on

Sometimes you can tell Cedric is getting frustrated trying to keep him focused.

[HammafistRoob]

Are you guys dumb? He obviously does cocaine and or ecstasy everyday. Go ahead and google Patrick Chapin ecstasy.

EDIT- Actually, I'm pretty positive that it's copious amounts of adderall and or ritalin. I know these things guys don't worry, hahaa.

[Darkenslight]

Are you guys dumb? He obviously does cocaine and or ecstasy everyday. Go ahead and google Patrick Chapin ecstasy.

EDIT- Actually, I'm pretty positive that it's copious amounts of adderall and or ritalin. I know these things guys don't worry, hahaa.

So:

Magic Meth :1: :r:
Instant
Make Target Chapin incoherent for the next fifteen minutes.

[Barook]

Are you guys dumb? He obviously does cocaine and or ecstasy everyday. Go ahead and google Patrick Chapin ecstasy.

EDIT- Actually, I'm pretty positive that it's copious amounts of adderall and or ritalin. I know these things guys don't worry, hahaa.
That's interesting for sure. Never heard about that one.

Chapin being high as fuck during the cast would certainly explain some things.

[bakofried]

Maybe we should actually call them out on Twitter instead of griping here? This coverage was really obnoxious.

Not that I mind this griping. I just don't want to have a repeat experience.

[JDK]

Done. (https://twitter.com/OfficialJDK/status/483614699813371904)

[menace13]

Chapin is gangsta. Supplied and Sold thousands of X pills. Served 2 years in jail. He gives no fucks about you magic playing pussies.

0 doubts.

[Lemnear]

Ha has no clue about Legacy (anymore) and doesn't give a fuck about that while disguising his lack of interrest behind a shitload of nonsense and stories more than half a decade old, rubbing his belly in satisfaction because of the i-fame gathered back in the days

[Lord_Mcdonalds]

Fairly certain he was trolling about the preordained thing, given he was using "banned" quite a bit (although he does make a point, brainstorm in pauper is merely okay whereas preordained is great...god I wish that format was a thing irl).

Pretty much everytime he's on the mic for legacy I get the impression he doesn't play the format and doesn't try to hide it very well, I distinctly remember him going on the mic and saying "you know people are apparently convinced playing mother of runes in legacy is a good thing, that's fine, here's my 15/15 annihilator 6" or something to that effect.

Not to say he should be on the mic for legacy (Sullivan y u no here)

[LOLWut]

Is The Innovator self-titled?

[JDK]

Not to say he should be on the mic for legacy (Sullivan y u no here)
Better add "Patrick" before Adrian and his annoying "best kind of Brainstorm"-BS is live again. :D

[Tormod]

And without fail he tells the Revised Serendib Efreet misprint and blue Hurricane story.

again... *facepalm*

[Richard Cheese]

Didn't he make a rap CD for SCGs at one point? Some of their products just seem completely awful, like the Brian Kibler play-mat. What a joke.

Would certainly make a good doormat or mat for my dog's food and water, though.

Too smooth for a doormat, not enough absorbency for either.

Also...why do you guys even bother listening to the stream?

[JDK]

Generally, I do not exclusively watch the stream. I tab in and out a lot, unless there is a really interesting match going on. So in order to keep up with the game, I am somewhat reliant on the commentating.

[burtonbaron62]

Chapin was quite bad yesterday. I actually want to hear people talking about the match I am watching, or at least the match-up, or at the very least Legacy. I mean I like a joke too, but 10 minutes talking about Jay-Z playing Magic in the Swiss Alps? Is he actually high? Further, I don't give a hill of beans about all the people he was name dropping; as if I know who any of those people are. It also seems that Chapin has fallen off his Legacy game, and doesn't really know the ins-and-outs of the format anymore.

However, I do respect him as a very knowledgeable player, I do enjoy some of his stories about old cards and Magic lore, and some of his observations (when he gets around to talking about the match we are watching) are very good.

Maybe SCG needs to look towards sports, and NFL in particular, commentary. Usually they have a play-by-play guy and a color guy. This pretty well describes Chapin and Cedric, but the color guy needs to know when enough is enough.

Also, yesterday really made me appreciate Patrick. Sometimes his Jersey joke aren't funny, but he knows what he is talking about and keeps it on topic.

[HammafistRoob]

Maybe SCG needs to look towards sports, and NFL in particular, commentary. Usually they have a play-by-play guy and a color guy. This pretty well describes Chapin and Cedric, but the color guy needs to know when enough is enough.
I thought Cedric was the colored one...

[cdr]

Is The Innovator self-titled?

Yep.

[Michael Keller]

Sometimes his Jersey joke aren't funny, but he knows what he is talking about and keeps it on topic.

When it comes to Legacy, no, he doesn't.

[Lord_Mcdonalds]

Better add "Patrick" before Adrian and his annoying "best kind of Brainstorm"-BS is live again. :D

I forgot about him

[burtonbaron62]

When it comes to Legacy, no, he doesn't.

You seriously don't think Patrick Sullivan knows what he is talking about in Legacy? He might not be the Legacy player best ever, and may miss somethings, but he does a way better job than I could.

[thecrav]

I think he was referring to Chapin, who was on yesterday's cast in Sullivan's plance.

Two many Patricks...

[Michael Keller]

You seriously don't think Patrick Sullivan knows what he is talking about in Legacy? He might not be the Legacy player best ever, and may miss somethings, but he does a way better job than I could.

Chapin guy, not P.S.

[Lemnear]

I thought Cedric was the colored one...

Cedric is the man for the color commentary and that was the Problem for the coverage. Cedric tried to do Sullivans job and staying serious/analytical the whole time which isn't really his thing, while Chapin overdid his role as color commenator and derailed the complete coverage to a point where the Match on camera wasn't more than a sidenote and distracted the viewer. I expected Chapin being more an analytical guy as a result of his books and possible cross-format knowledge, but that performance just damaged his reputation

P.S. It was like watching the FIFA World Cup while the commentator talks about Culture and the politician issues in Brasil as a result of the misinvested fortune throughout the match.

[ESG]

Cedric is the man for the color commentary and that was the Problem for the coverage. Cedric tried to do Sullivans job and staying serious/analytical the whole time which isn't really his thing, while Chapin overdid his role as color commenator and derailed the complete coverage to a point where the Match on camera wasn't more than a sidenote and distracted the viewer. I expected Chapin being more an analytical guy as a result of his books and possible cross-format knowledge, but that performance just damaged his reputation

P.S. It was like watching the FIFA World Cup while the commentator talks about Culture and the politician issues in Brasil as a result of the misinvested fortune throughout the match.

Yeah. I played in this event, so I'm just catching up with the coverage on Twitch. Big thumbs down on Chapin this time. I don't care for him as a commentator, but this outing was especially rough. I'm a lot less picky than the majority of folks in this thread, but his remarks were way too rambling and distracting. Some people tonight at my LGS had similar complaints. What I would really like is less color commentary and more play-by-play. The glare was really bright this time off people's sleeves, and it was not easy to discern board states.

[Lemnear]

Wow that irks me. Self given nicknames annoy the shit out of me almost as much as religious fanatics and country music.

I'm pretty sure the nicknames came up after his "next level" orgy and was created by or in Association with SCG to promote his articles in regards to SCG premium sellings. At least that's where I noticed it first; can be mistaken here and if so hit me on that

[Megadeus]

Funny. Everyone over at salvation seems to love chapin

[JDK]

For what it's worth: Twitter is split on Chapin. two tweets vs. two. :rolleyes:

If you don't like the coverage, let them know ffs.

[thecrav]

Funny. Everyone over at salvation seems to love chapin

and here's your sign...

[Richard Cheese]

They should get Michael Winslow to do the color commentary. Then it would be like watching a live edition of DotP.

[Lord Seth]

Funny. Everyone over at salvation seems to love chapinI saw some posters there say they liked his commentary, but almost all of them qualified it by saying they only liked it if it was done once in a while and would grate if he was doing it every week.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

They should get Michael Winslow to do the color commentary. Then it would be like watching a live edition of DotP.

Does the shortcut stand for dioctyl terephthalate?

[Megadeus]

Announcers jizzing their pants over Reid Dukes predict screaming about how it was awesome that he even knew his top card thanks to Top

[TheAardvark]

Announcers jizzing their pants over Reid Dukes predict screaming about how it was awesome that he even knew his top card thanks to Top

I assume they are "jizzing their pants" because he is playing fucking Predict after 2006.

[nedleeds]

Regardless, probably not cause to jizz.

[Megadeus]

This GP Orlando promo is cringe worthy

[Meekrab]

This GP Orlando promo is cringe worthy
I appreciated the "Thallid Bar," even though the pun is 20 years old...

[nedleeds]

I'm obviously too old and get off my lawn for any of this SCG 9 year old girl promo crap. Is this really making money? SCG Opens and GPs seem at odds with the filthy casuals these retarded chub squirrel, and chub penguin products are aimed at. Must be doing well -- otherwise they would have clipped it. Then again they have a white rapper magic CD for sale also so I suppose once you've put that out there anything goes really.

[warfordium]

i'm still waiting for something along the lines of http://magiccards.info/scans/en/ia/117.jpg

[Barook]

Best of SCG?

That's a new one. Much better than getting tortured with replaying the Standard Top 8 over and over.

[Nocley]

They did best of one weekend about a month ago. Like first week of June I think. Definitely better than the same matches over and over.

Also if everyone is so angry about their promotions for Orlando, curious as to how you'll react when they start advertising jersey

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

[Undomian]

I'm obviously too old and get off my lawn for any of this SCG 9 year old girl promo crap. Is this really making money? SCG Opens and GPs seem at odds with the filthy casuals these retarded chub squirrel, and chub penguin products are aimed at. Must be doing well -- otherwise they would have clipped it. Then again they have a white rapper magic CD for sale also so I suppose once you've put that out there anything goes really.

These kinds of things are not meant for people who frequent magic forums, obviously. Anyone 'serious' about the game is already going to nearby GPs regardless of TO/promo/shit gimmicks, even if they have to sit through ads clearly aimed at dragging the casual audience out of their kitchens.

[menace13]

The Gatherin Playlist: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKnpIh0SoKc&list=PL6170F5A09FA39E60

Lol. I'll leave this here. You know, in case you wanted to hate yourself after.

[thecrav]

The Gatherin Playlist: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKnpIh0SoKc&list=PL6170F5A09FA39E60

Lol. I'll leave this here. You know, in case you wanted to hate yourself after.

New podcast intro/outro acquired.

[Anen]

Mono-R Moggcatcher (5-1) was on stream and got fucked by TNN. RiP innovation.

[Meekrab]

Mono-R Moggcatcher (5-1) was on stream and got fucked by the die roll. RiP innovation.
It was literally a 50/50, as pointed out by the booth team.

Bad luck that Elves and Affinity got paired in the X-1 bracket, wanted to see them both in Top 8.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Good Elves pilot, Ross Merriam. So far anyway.

[Vicar in a tutu]

Mono-R Moggcatcher (5-1) was on stream and got fucked by TNN. RiP innovation.
This match had nothing to do with Moggcatcher (or TNN), it was all about Moon-effects and Chalice of the Void. And what happens when a deck that is heavily reliant on these "bombs" loses a key piece to discard and is left with a sucky hand.

[Megadeus]

Also how losing the die roll is bad for that deck