SCG and its not-as-lousy-as-WotC coverage

[iamajellydonut]

Ok, I think I've seen two mistakes so far with the dredge player. Against U/R he blocked with putrid imp that had threshhild? He also removed ichorid to bring back ichorid? Am I missing something or crazy?

Nice catch on the first one, but the text on Ichorid only refers to itself. You can still exile other Ichorids.

That being said, this is painful and I want to go to bed.

Edit: Oh, thank God. He scooped.

[Richard Cheese]

Just keep it spread out for fuck's sake!

[ahg113]

One for the bad guy.

Cedric and Patrick are easily the best team. The hate they shared for Ohio State warmed my heart. And F Meatchicken too.

[Ziveeman]

Congrats Que for winning SCG Oakland with Dredge!!

[Koby]

I don't care anymore about <Khans Clan> wedge Delver. Tin Fins is still called Tin Fins. All is forgiven.

[lordofthepit]

Just keep it spread out for fuck's sake!

giggity

[The Doctor]

Fwiw storm player had the kill too. Play carpet off trop, use floating black to strip stifle, move to second main, add 3 blue mana, brainstorm putting tendrils on top, git probe and crack led for black in response, draw and cast tendrilsShould be noted that he only had the black floating because BUG player didn't DRS away threshold in response to Cabal Ritual. Two wrongs make a right :D

[CabalTherapy]

Should be noted that he only had the black floating because BUG player didn't DRS away threshold in response to Cabal Ritual. Two wrongs make a right :D

The correct line was simply tap Tropical Island for U > Brainstorm, put Tendrils on top, play LED (still BB floating), play Duress (one B left), play Probe paying 2 life (going down to healthy 4 life) and sac LED in response to add BBB to the pool, draw Tendrils and play for lethal. The carpet shouldn't play a role here.

[Koby]

The correct line was simply tap Tropical Island for U > Brainstorm, put Tendrils on top, play LED (still BB floating), play Duress (one B left), play Probe paying 2 life (going down to healthy 4 life) and sac LED in response to add BBB to the pool, draw Tendrils and play for lethal. The carpet shouldn't play a role here.

There were many valid lines of play, all of which required the opponent think through his actions and understand his cards. He didn't, got distracted by the ensuing judge call, and lost to his own mistakes.

[Tav]

The correct line was simply tap Tropical Island for U > Brainstorm, put Tendrils on top, play LED (still BB floating), play Duress (one B left), play Probe paying 2 life (going down to healthy 4 life) and sac LED in response to add BBB to the pool, draw Tendrils and play for lethal. The carpet shouldn't play a role here.

yeah you're right, duh. It was late last night and I (along with I'm sure a lot of other people) had the carpet on our minds because that was all anyone was focusing on (HOW DOES IT WORK). Obv it still would still work, but that^ is the most straight forward line.

Assuming the bug player had drs'd in response to the second CR and eaten something and taken him off threshhold, i think he still would have needed to keep flipping right? We did know that the next card was petal (because he probed), and I think that would have gotten him there cuz then he could just do the carpet ->bstorm line after duressing off the petal.

[The Doctor]

The correct line was simply tap Tropical Island for U > Brainstorm, put Tendrils on top, play LED (still BB floating), play Duress (one B left), play Probe paying 2 life (going down to healthy 4 life) and sac LED in response to add BBB to the pool, draw Tendrils and play for lethal. The carpet shouldn't play a role here.Did you mean to reply to me? Because all I said was that the BUG player could have cut off Threshold so there wasn't BB floating to begin with.

[Que]

The finals have been pretty painful to watch. We have a "Sultai Delver" player who somehow made it to the finals of a legacy open without ever seeing a dredge deck before vs a dredge player playing with shitty foils that he has to use proxies for because they are so warped and he also repeatedly puts his GY into a little pile so only the top card is visible.

Let me explain the situation. My opponent shuffled my deck and bent one of my cards. I didn't know what card it was so I was pretty upset as you might be able to see from the stream. Luckily "my shitty" foil was only a Stinkweed Imp, however, the judges determined that it would still be noticeable during our match so I was made to use a Plains as a proxy.

Also I think you're pretty rude. I don't actually own many foils as I don't care for them too much (I always thought they were a bit high maintenance), but this is a pet deck of mine and I've been lucky enough to find some of these cards foil from friends and such to put it together. Sorry about your feelings towards my deck.

Regarding why I didn't spread out my graveyard. The reason for this is because thats how I play the deck simply put. I would rather put the onus on my opponent to follow and remember what I have in there, because that is to my benefit (they have to remember Ichorid count, cabal therapy count,etc). I know it doesn't play nice under camera because you only ever get to see the top card, however, I wanted to be consistent with this method throughout the day and this didn't change going into the top 8.

@Wombo Combo. I did in fact take the damage. I was only joking with Glen Jones after I had taken the damage saying "wish I could block that" and shoved the Putrid Imp towards his creature for the cheap laugh. We both knew it couldn't block.

@Ziveeman. Thanks a lot! :D

[Dice_Box]

Was lands on camera at all?

[Megadeus]

Regarding why I didn't spread out my graveyard. The reason for this is because thats how I play the deck simply put. I would rather put the onus on my opponent to follow and remember what I have in there, because that is to my benefit (they have to remember Ichorid count, cabal therapy count,etc). I know it doesn't play nice under camera because you only ever get to see the top card, however, I wanted to be consistent with this method throughout the day and this didn't change going into the top 8.


D
Regarding this, is it possible for me to request that my opponent display their graveyard in a manner in which all cards are visible? For example, if I called a judge and made such a request, would my opponent be obliged to honor such a request? Because this is honestly a somewhat dick move imo. I understand that there is absolutely nothing illegal about it, but when you have a 20+ card GY in a deck with so many GY interactions, it seems important to know these things.

[Darkenslight]

Was lands on camera at all?

We had both Turbo Eldrazi (as 12-Post) and Pox Loam on camera, but IIRC, no Lands.

[Dice_Box]

Bugger, Sparki (Guy on Salvation) made the top 8 with control lands and I was hoping they would show it off. After all we have only really seen combo lands on screen this year.

[Sparkii]

Bugger, Sparki (Guy on Salvation) made the top 8 with control lands and I was hoping they would show it off. After all we have only really seen combo lands on screen this year.

I'm here too, haha. I was the backup feature match for round 8, but Joe playing his miracles match took longer.

@Que grats on the finish!

[Bed Decks Palyer]

Let me explain the situation. My opponent shuffled my deck and bent one of my cards. I didn't know what card it was so I was pretty upset as you might be able to see from the stream. Luckily "my shitty" foil was only a Stinkweed Imp, however, the judges determined that it would still be noticeable during our match so I was made to use a Plains as a proxy.

Also I think you're pretty rude. I don't actually own many foils as I don't care for them too much (I always thought they were a bit high maintenance), but this is a pet deck of mine and I've been lucky enough to find some of these cards foil from friends and such to put it together. Sorry about your feelings towards my deck.

Regarding why I didn't spread out my graveyard. The reason for this is because thats how I play the deck simply put. I would rather put the onus on my opponent to follow and remember what I have in there, because that is to my benefit (they have to remember Ichorid count, cabal therapy count,etc). I know it doesn't play nice under camera because you only ever get to see the top card, however, I wanted to be consistent with this method throughout the day and this didn't change going into the top 8.

Good job, well done!

And I don't understand why not spreading your gy should be considered a "dick move". It's not your duty, you make the situation a bit more harder even for yourself, etc. There are no rules on spread-out gy, in fact gy is simply the pile where you put your cards, so correct me if I'm wrong, but one may do quite anything with it, like putting some cards top-down, or cross them, or w/e. Also, the very idea that I'm obliged to do anything with my gy/library placement simply because some dude across me asked for that... wow, next time I'll play the game, I'll definitely ask the people to keep their creatures behind their line of lands just as it was done back in 1996 when I was learned the game *surelygonnahappenandnobodywillshowmethefinger*

[TheArchitect]

Regarding this, is it possible for me to request that my opponent display their graveyard in a manner in which all cards are visible? For example, if I called a judge and made such a request, would my opponent be obliged to honor such a request? Because this is honestly a somewhat dick move imo. I understand that there is absolutely nothing illegal about it, but when you have a 20+ card GY in a deck with so many GY interactions, it seems important to know these things.

I am actually curious about this too. I ALWAYS ask for my opponent to fan out their graveyard. I don't card what deck they are playing. Especially with Treasure cruise being a thing in every blue deck now it is even more relevant. I have never had anyone not cooperate with me though. I realize you don't have to fan your GY out by default, but especially with a deck like dredge not doing is absolutely a dick move. Its like people who intentionally play the cheater dryad arbor to get an advantage. Yeah its legal but that doesn't make it less of a dick thing to do.

Congrats on your win though. I love dredge, love seeing it win and you did play it really well.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

I ALWAYS ask for my opponent to fan out their creatures behind their lands. I don't mind what deck they are playing. I realize you don't have to fan out your creatures behind your lands by default, but especially with a deck like Mr.Toilet Will Have His Revenge on PT Seattle not doing is absolutely a dick move.

[Lemnear]

I am actually curious about this too. I ALWAYS ask for my opponent to fan out their graveyard. I don't card what deck they are playing. Especially with Treasure cruise being a thing in every blue deck now it is even more relevant. I have never had anyone not cooperate with me though. I realize you don't have to fan your GY out by default, but especially with a deck like dredge not doing is absolutely a dick move. Its like people who intentionally play the cheater dryad arbor to get an advantage. Yeah its legal but that doesn't make it less of a dick thing to do.

Congrats on your win though. I love dredge, love seeing it win and you did play it really well.

Honestly, I never saw a reason to highlight a Cabal Therapy in my graveyard after I made a bunch of goblins via EtW. I say "thank you" for every batterskull people fetch with SFM with the intent to counter the ambush with the 4/4 lifelinker *shrug*

[Hopo]

It's perfectly ok by the rules to just keep your grave in one pile, that's what people do usually unless playing dredge.

Of course, it's also highly inconvenient and your opponents can make your matchups last forever if they choose to browse through the graveyard once or twice every turn, but that's the price you have to pay in order to keep your head and try to steal an edge while trying to dodge your own mistakes.

I'm more into promoting manners and gentleman behaviour, but of course I realize those bear no meaning in competitive gaming to most people.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

It's perfectly ok by the rules to just keep your grave in one pile, that's what people do usually unless playing dredge.
As seen above, at least one of them does the same when playing dredge. And I'm not sure why a certain gaming habit of a member of our community should be called "dick move".




Of course, it's also highly inconvenient and your opponents can make your matchups last forever if they choose to browse through the graveyard once or twice every turn, but that's the price you have to pay in order to keep your head and try to steal an edge while trying to dodge your own mistakes.
Yes.



I'm more into promoting manners and gentleman behaviour, but of course I realize those bear no meaning in competitive gaming to most people.
Depends. I, for example, wouldn't want from my opponents to have their cards, libraries and graveyards placed in any other way that the one fits them. I'd find that unsportsmanlike to tell the people how should they place their gaming pieces and at least I'd hesitate to call their gaming habits "dick moves" (unless we're talking about constant kiblering and/or thrashtalk), especially if those habits make it more difficult for them to track their triggers and such.
But maybe it's just me. Time to move on to the next obstacle.

[Megadeus]

I seeI have somehow hit a soft spot. Like someone said, if you don't do it, I will simply ask to look through your graveyard multiple times per turn. If you are okay with intentionally slowing the game down to gain .5% points in a game, I guess that's your prerogative. I do not believe I have ever seen people simply stack their creatures up in a way that people stack their graveyard, so I don't see your ridiculous comparison holding any water.

[Michael Keller]

For what it's worth having played thousands of games with Dredge:

I always used to play out my graveyard in an "L" shape, so not only could I see what's in my graveyard, but my opponents could as well. I've always found it to be a courtesy and I honestly don't see how you could gain an advantage by keeping it piled up next to your library. It will only serve to frustrate opponents who have the right to constantly ask to see what's in there while also being well within their rights to call a judge to have to keep it fanned out for open view.

Doesn't mean it will happen, but you can ask a judge.

That being said, from the Comprehensive Rules:



404. Graveyard
404.1. A player's graveyard is his or her discard pile. Any object that's countered, discarded, destroyed, or sacrificed is put on top of its owner's graveyard, as is any instant or sorcery spell that's finished resolving. Each player's graveyard starts out empty.
404.2. Each graveyard is kept in a single face-up pile. A player can examine the cards in any graveyard at any time but normally can't change their order. Additional rules applying to sanctioned tournaments may allow a player to change the order of cards in his or her graveyard.
404.3. If an effect or rule puts two or more cards into the same graveyard at the same time, the owner of those cards may arrange them in any order.

Any player can call for a judge at any given time if they feel the need for a rules explanation. But as far as playing a game of Magic with a Dredge deck goes, you're well within your rights to keep it single-piled if you want to, even if it's considered taboo by the community. Dredge as a mechanic doesn't mean you as a Dredge player are auto-inclined or forced to fan out a graveyard for public view. But you need to keep it stacked properly so that cards aren't reordering themselves.

[Dice_Box]

Everyone is different. I have a habit of leaning on the table so I have my lands down the left side of my mat in two rows with everything else at the front. It lets me lean and cover no cards. Its a habit I have gotten into and it really bothers some people that my lands are not where your normally look for them. I have had people ask me to change it and I say no. Not because I want to be a dick, but because if I move it I am going to cross my arms over cards that are in play and cause issues. So I think it is fair to do ask you wish as long as you are not breaking the rules.

Want to put your grave in a pile, that's fine. My response will be to set out dice for each card of note and change them as needed. So then I know how many bridges you have and what not. Done it before, I have sometimes had a better idea of the game state that the people playing their decks when I do that.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

I seeI have somehow hit a soft spot. Like someone said, if you don't do it, I will simply ask to look through your graveyard multiple times per turn. If you are okay with intentionally slowing the game down to gain .5% points in a game, I guess that's your prerogative. I do not believe I have ever seen people simply stack their creatures up in a way that people stack their graveyard, so I don't see your ridiculous comparison holding any water.
I wouldn't mind learn the peopl that it's incovenient to place the graveyards like that, becasue it slows the game down. Heck, I guess they don't even gain any .0005% becasue of this habit, as it might lead to a trigger lost or w/e. I'm just hesitant to call someone's gaming habit a dick move. Feel free to do that.

Also, if you have never seen creatures behind/below/underneath the lands, than you clearly weren't playing the game back in 1990's when it was absolutely common to see these battlefields only:

opponent

creature creature creature creature
land land land land land land land land
______________________

land land land land land land land land
creature creature creature creature

me


Creatures were hiding behind the wall of lands, becasue that's how Brett and Keisha played the Magic. Also, they were save there from Fissure and Dessert Twister.
/important things

[Megadeus]

I now understand what you said. when you said "fanning out" creatures it seemed to me that you implied that people put their creatures all in a pile

[iamajellydonut]

I now understand what you said. when you said "fanning out" creatures it seemed to me that you implied that people put their creatures all in a pile

This is how I read it.

[Warr]

Great points by Hollywood. I've played my fair share of dredge and also use the single pile method. I've been asked to spread the graveyard out and politely refused.

My main reason for doing this is keeping graveyard ordering. It drives me absolutely crazy when another dredge player snakes their yard back and forth across the field, and invariably something gets screwed up. And graveyard order CAN matter when dealing with Nether Shadows.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

I now understand what you said. when you said "fanning out" creatures it seemed to me that you implied that people put their creatures all in a pile

:laugh::laugh:
Sorry!

[Sloshthedark]

I wouldn't mind learn the peopl that it's incovenient to place the graveyards like that, becasue it slows the game down. Heck, I guess they don't even gain any .0005% becasue of this habit, as it might lead to a trigger lost or w/e. I'm just hesitant to call someone's gaming habit a dick move. Feel free to do that.

Also, if you have never seen creatures behind/below/underneath the lands, than you clearly weren't playing the game back in 1990's when it was absolutely common to see these battlefields only:

opponent

creature creature creature creature
land land land land land land land land
______________________

land land land land land land land land
creature creature creature creature

me


Creatures were hiding behind the wall of lands, becasue that's how Brett and Keisha played the Magic. Also, they were save there from Fissure and Dessert Twister.
/important things

Actually a nice habit of oldschool players... the FtV Dryad Arbor is kind of shady thou but elves is a mess anyway...

better Dredge players I've met were very precise at what they are doing, triggers and stuff and a GY in a pile is ok as any other, you both have to follow what's there anyway...


Great points by Hollywood. I've played my fair share of dredge and also use the single pile method. I've been asked to spread the graveyard out and politely refused.

My main reason for doing this is keeping graveyard ordering. It drives me absolutely crazy...

when some (newer) players fail to respect it just because they think they're winning, can't hold their hands still or are just idiots.

[Lemnear]

I seeI have somehow hit a soft spot. Like someone said, if you don't do it, I will simply ask to look through your graveyard multiple times per turn. If you are okay with intentionally slowing the game down to gain .5% points in a game, I guess that's your prerogative. I do not believe I have ever seen people simply stack their creatures up in a way that people stack their graveyard, so I don't see your ridiculous comparison holding any water.

Do that. Just don't wonder if your opponent calls for a judge and reminds him of Tomoharu Saito's habits and resulting ban. ;)

[nedleeds]

Any player can call for a judge at any given time if they feel the need for a rules explanation. But as far as playing a game of Magic with a Dredge deck goes, you're well within your rights to keep it single-piled if you want to, even if it's considered taboo by the community. Dredge as a mechanic doesn't mean you as a Dredge player are auto-inclined or forced to fan out a graveyard for public view. But you need to keep it stacked properly so that cards aren't reordering themselves.

Fantastic ... then the non dredge player can "A player can examine the cards in any graveyard at any time" ... constantly. Actually each time cards are put in or a trigger is announced. I'd call a judge and explain that the public zone is being added to, manipulated and raising triggers. Since I can invoke the right to examine at any time I'm going to request to look at it anytime any of these things happen or I'm passed priority. Are we having fun yet?

[Dice_Box]

So in response to the Dredge player playing the game in a manor that is legal but not to your liking, your going to needlessly waste time on a vendetta to make them change their ways even though they are doing nothing wrong?

What are the stalling rules again?

[DTC]

I feel I'm also an anomaly and agree with Que on this one (don't know you but congrats on winning the open)
Dredge is my goldfish pet deck when I'm bored at home or while im
Watching the open coverage on weekends. When I do this keeping the graveyard fanned out can get very messy with my playstyle anyway and graveyard is open information to both players so it's easier to keep it stacked and would rather do that to avoid game state confusions. As the dredge player it means for me to have to remember my own triggers a bit more closely and my opponent needs to consult my graveyard appropriately only when necessary. I'm thinking of taking the deck with me for side events if I scrub the main event at gp New Jersey because It's fun to at out 3 or 4 rounds so this is something I've considered if I do so.

Open info like this is the respobsibility of players themselves. Why should I give my opponent information unnecessarily like that? When I play against dredge I would not ask them to fan out their bin, If I need to interact with it or consider triggers I'll request to check it myself which I'm free to do. My experience with the deck intimately means I'm
Usually not worried for the matchup and can handle remembering what they have. If anything dredge is easier of a matchup because of HOW MUCH information you get from it. Their entire deck is laid out and the list is fairly stock for 58-59 main board cards with numbers of some cards being the little variations I see. Any player with legacy experience should be able to manage without a fanned graveyard to remind them. If playing dredge I don't see it as a dick move as I'm there to win and if my opponent forgets about my ichorids that's their fault. I have nothing to worry about understanding the deck and playing correctly and my opponent should be held to a similar standard. If they misplay against
Me that's on them. Likewise if I miss a trigger that can be on me as well and I'll accept my own misplay and move on.

[Michael Keller]

Fantastic ... then the non dredge player can "A player can examine the cards in any graveyard at any time" ... constantly. Actually each time cards are put in or a trigger is announced. I'd call a judge and explain that the public zone is being added to, manipulated and raising triggers. Since I can invoke the right to examine at any time I'm going to request to look at it anytime any of these things happen or I'm passed priority. Are we having fun yet?

That's my point. I'm not defending any position, I'm simply stating at any time you can check out someone's graveyard as it's a public zone. I never pile my graveyard that way (as I indicated), and I don't see any added benefit in doing so. When I played Dredge, I would always keep it fanned out and if anyone needed to look at something I'd happily pause and let them peruse.

But the reality is there are players out there that will make life difficult for you.

[nedleeds]

Yeah. I'm agreeing with you. If your opponent knows the rules I find it hard to think there's a judge who would allow the dredge player to constantly stack and unstack his graveyard like an accordion. But the dredge player is under no pressure to offer it up to begin with, I'd imagine I'd keep it stacked until asked otherwise. I can recall a few legacy dredge opponents who could keep track in their heads without fanning. Vintage is another story as the game is so condensed and an active bazaar might mean 30-40 cards in the yard by turn 2.

[nedleeds]

So in response to the Dredge player playing the game in a manor that is legal but not to your liking, your going to needlessly waste time on a vendetta to make them change their ways even though they are doing nothing wrong?

What are the stalling rules again?

And looking at the yard every time it's contents change is also legal as I quoted the fucking rules. Reading? I didn't say the dredge player is doing anything wrong. I'm saying you aren't going to get a whole lot of magic done because it's the non dredge players right to inspect it every time it changes which in dredge is bound to be pretty often.

[Wombo Combo]

@Que

That makes a lot more sense. I think the commentators were saying you blocked and the life totals didn't move. Probably just a disconnect on their part. I was surprised that guy in the finals didn't get a game loss for slow play. He must have looked at your graveyard 5 times in the same turn without any change.

[Que]

Sup guys. Thanks to those who congratulated me on the win! <33 Just wanted to make some comments on the topics being
discussed.

When I stack my graveyard in a single pile one has to remember that it also forces Me to remember what cards are going in there and makes it so that I'm more liable to make a mistake. Of course that is the drawback of that style. Occasionally as Dice_Box has mentioned I just keep a few dice to tick up or down as some of the key cards come up.

None of my opponents throughout the day asked me to fan out my graveyard either or gave any indication that they were upset with my style of dredging cards. If you see the stream my style is usually dredging a card and subsequently showing my opponent clearly what I have dredged for that turn and once we've both confirmed I put them back into the gy. I'm not going to baby my opponent. The gy is public knowledge and as DTC mentioned if you really play close attention my lines are as clear as day if you know whats going on. My opponents are basically playing the game with a Telepathy on their side of the board. :/ Like Lamnear said if his opponent didn't realize there was a Cabal Therapy in the yard after he/she fetched up a B. Skull with SFM, that is the opponents fault. Lamnear isn't going to just fan out the gy. Any player can check it whenever he/she wants.

I don't think that it slows the game down all that much. Of course this is anecdotal. Again my opponents didn't spend more than a few seconds tumbing through my graveyard and lets be honest I'm a "combo" deck so I shouldn't ever be going to time with it. If my opponent is having trouble understanding any of the cards we proceed with a judge call if needed for oracle text etc.. which lends itself to time extensions. Otherwise the indication I'm getting is that my opponent knows what is going on and is fine with how the game is going.

@Wombo Combo. Yeah a lot of people were wondering the same thing. He didn't get a warning, however, he was asked by judge staff to move at a quicker pace.

[Kathal]

I'm the first one today ^^

Nice Infect-Miracle game, sadly missed the first streamed round of legacy. Does somebody know, what got streamed?

Edit says: About the dredge discussion. I play Assault/Aggro Loam in Modern and I want to give my opinion on this topic. Normally I try to fan out my graveyard, but at some point it become nearly impossible to do it since it requires a huge amount of space. Adding all the lands and the creatures you will have it is really problematic. So after some point I simply have to stack the grave, since I don't have any space left. And with Legacy Dredge it is even worse, because you mill half of your deck. I don't care, how people are doing it as long as they are familiar with it and I don't like people to force something they aren't normally do (like fanning the graveyard out).

Greetings,
Kathal

[Darkenslight]

Elves vs UR Delver. Flip double Delver off of Forked Bolt with three 1/1s in play for Elves, with Swiftspear and another Forked Bolt! #rekt

[Zupponn]

Moggcatcher quickly becoming a Legacy staple. Better get your copies while they're cheap!

[cdr]

Moggcatcher quickly becoming a Legacy staple. Better get your copies while they're cheap!

Already have my japanese. Always knew that box would pay off.

[ESG]

Moggcatcher quickly becoming a Legacy staple. Better get your copies while they're cheap!

Gotta catch 'em all?

[Dice_Box]

Watching the stream, they are announcing the next decks to play (Tragos v Ross) and Sullivan says "Blue Red delver, the new kid on the block". The pure disgust on his face was beautiful.

[Darkenslight]

Back to the Open circuit, and we've seen at least four different decks: Lands, Burn, Infect and Elves!

Seems like the GP shook things up.

[Kathal]

FUUUUUUUUUUUUU missed the Lands game :frown:. Guess I have to look it afterwards.

Greetings,
Kathal

[supremePINEAPPLE]

FUUUUUUUUUUUUU missed the Lands game :frown:. Guess I have to look it afterwards.

Greetings,
Kathalhttp://www.twitch.tv/scglive/b/591581347?t=26h12m30s

[Kathal]

http://www.twitch.tv/scglive/b/591581347?t=26h12m30s

Thank you very much!!!

Greetings,
Kathal

[Kathal]

That Lands player, so much fail :frown:

Greetings,
Kathal

[twndomn]

Schonegger, Lossett, and Rill all in contention gunning for Top 8, this tournament is stacked.

Cedric is on some kind of drugs when he says Storm's favorable against Miracles, not when piloted by the experts I just mentioned.

[Kathal]

It would be awesome to see a Schönegger and Lossett Mirror, since they are one of the best Miracles players in the world atm.

Greetings,
Kathal

PS:And yeah, Cedric is just sooo wrong...

[Meekrab]

Regarding Shardless Agent after Treasure Cruise:

Hunt: "He's just hipster about drawing three cards."

[Barook]

It would be awesome to see a Schönegger and Lossett Mirror, since they are one of the best Miracles players in the world atm.
Now that's a match I want to see.

For those who watch his stream, Bahra is appearently on the #1 place right now. I wonder why they haven't showed him yet, his D&T deck is pimped out.

[Kathal]

Now that's a match I want to see.

For those who watch his stream, Bahra is appearently on the #1 place right now. I wonder why they haven't showed him yet, his D&T deck is pimped out.

:eek: What the heck, if this is true, that Bahra is #1 atm, why didn't they showed him now? His deck is really, really beautiful. I hope we can see some good matches now with nice pimped decks (Schönegger and Bahra).

Greetings,
Kathal

[btm10]

Now that's a match I want to see.

For those who watch his stream, Bahra is appearently on the #1 place right now. I wonder why they haven't showed him yet, his D&T deck is pimped out.

Yeah, Lossett vs. Schoenegger would be great to watch. They frequently don't show table 1 games if there are more recognizable players/novel decks at lower-but-still-alive tables.

[Barook]

Standings got updated, Bahra is indeed #1 being, completely undefeated. I guess the noobluck was strong with him today. :wink:

[Kathal]

Yeah, Lossett vs. Schoenegger would be great to watch. They frequently don't show table 1 games if there are more recognizable players/novel decks at lower-but-still-alive tables.

Sadly Schönegger is 6-2, so he can't get top 8 :frown:. So no Lossett vs. Schönegger.

Greetings,
Kathal

[Barook]

Sadly Schönegger is 6-2, so he can't get top 8 :frown:. So no Lossett vs. Schönegger.
They're both on MODO, they should duke it out there then.

[ESG]

Europeans doing well. Marc Konig and Tomas Vlcek in the Top 8. Philipp Schonegger and Julian Knab just missing Top 8.

[nedleeds]

Americans doing well. Teammate Shawn French finishing higher the the aforementioned Euros and finishing 9th.

[twndomn]

What if Bahra and Oarsman play for a trophy? Does the universe explode?

[Secretly.A.Bee]

No, but I win a bet. This is fun so far.

[mrjumbo03]

Wow the missed trigger for that Sulfuric Vortex though.

Thoughts on how quick Lossett drew and played the top for that turn?

[Meekrab]

What if Bahra and Oarsman play for a trophy? Does the universe explode?
We'll find out.

[workingdude]

Wow the missed trigger for that Sulfuric Vortex though.

Thoughts on how quick Lossett drew and played the top for that turn?

Lossett definately drew quickly on purpose. I dont think there is any doubt about that. But having said that, his opponent seemed to be clueless until it was well after the mainstep. It wasnt where Lossett drew quickly and played before opponent tried to speak.

Tl;dr Lossett drew quick on purpose, but opponent forgot anyways.

[deviant]

Losset demonstrating why the trigger rules are terrible atm.
Who does not hate that they encourage players to strategically push the limits of acceptable douchebaggery?
I personally would not do that, but I'm glad he did.

[twndomn]

doesn't matter how fast Lossett draw his card. Vortex is your card, you are responsible for the trigger, you're entitled to stop Lossett and then put that trigger on the stack. This tattoo guy then proceeded to miss the trigger on his own turn again. Fatigue aside, he should not have Vortex in his 75 if he is mentally incapable of remembering his own trigger. Stick to MTGO please.

[Sloshthedark]

Wow the missed trigger for that Sulfuric Vortex though.

Thoughts on how quick Lossett drew and played the top for that turn?

obv. on purpose, depends if he had said something

[ESG]

What if Bahra and Oarsman play for a trophy? Does the universe explode?


No, but I win a bet. This is fun so far.

Looks like you win your bet.

[Barook]

I wish the commentators would stop talking bullshit about D&T. Many of their comments are downright cringe-worthy, especially when it comes down to match-up dynamics.

[mrjumbo03]

Tries to play a 2nd land for a turn? Also tried to pick up the plains instead of Strand.

Come on Joe, you're better than that.

[ReAnimator]

Joe uncharacteristically super sloppy this top 8.

[ESG]

He got a little flustered after Thalia no-sirred his Terminus.

Edit: Yep, game totally unraveled. Two Flickerwisps.

[deviant]

Tries to play a 2nd land for a turn? Also tried to pick up the plains instead of Strand.

Come on Joe, you're better than that.

Have you seen him stream? He sometime gets a little lost, nothing shady there.
I'm at home and I'm still stunned by the thalia-vial, not one to blame anyone getting a little knocked off by that hook.

[Meekrab]

Have you seen him stream? He sometime gets a little lost, nothing shady there.
I'm at home and I'm still stunned by the thalia-vial, not one to blame anyone getting a little knocked off by that hook.
Can confirm, Joe punts minor value all the time and the armchair quarterbacks are quick to pounce and show how much smarter they are.

[Meekrab]

This board state is a little ridiculous, 5 angels facing down a Brimaz and a Batterskull...

[Megadeus]

Americans doing well. Teammate Shawn French finishing higher the the aforementioned Euros and finishing 9th.

Tusk will live on next weekend

[Dragonslayer_90]

Watched the replay of Bahra vs. Lossett finals today. Was baffled to find Cedric calling Death and Taxes White weenie and felt like this:

http://www.troll.me/images/futurama-fry/not-sure-if-trolling-or-just-stupid.jpg

No disrespect to Cedric, but I guess he doesn't know legacy as well as I thought he did or D&T players still aren't winning enough for people to know how their deck actually operates :P Either way, that sure was a phenomenal finals.

[ReAnimator]

Watched the replay of Bahra vs. Lossett finals today. Was baffled to find Cedric calling Death and Taxes White weenie and felt like this:

No disrespect to Cedric, but I guess he doesn't know legacy as well as I thought he did or D&T players still aren't winning enough for people to know how their deck actually operates :P Either way, that sure was a phenomenal finals.

Him and the other commentators have mentioned that it really isn't fast beat down deck multiple times in multiple broadcasts, but ultimately for a layman or someone completely new, if you look at that decklist, it really is a white weenie deck on paper, and having to explain that it doesnt' play out that way at all every single time is sort of laborious.

If someone not really versed in how the deck plays out just sees a list with 1's and 2's and hard to kill face smashing 3's in Brimaz and Mirren Crusader with some STP's, mana disruption and a way to pump up your little dudes (equipment package), what exactly are they supposed to think the deck is? Cause that's essentially the blueprint for white weenie and has been for 20 years, just with some newer cards.

[Megadeus]

I can't remember the last time I saw a death and taxes deck win within the first 4 or so turns though... The 1's and 2's aren't aggressive at all... Just because a deck has 20+ cheap men doesn't make it aggressive. That classification alone probably gets people to pick it up and play it like an aggro deck and wonder why they can't win a match

[nedleeds]

This 1/1 Cleric for W sure hits hard.

[thecrav]

15 of the 26 creatures have art that is identifiably female*. Calling it white weenie is offensive and wrong (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVdEINfm7H4)

/s

*I'm calling spirit a maybe

[Lemnear]

15 of the 26 creatures have art that is identifiably female*. Calling it white weenie is offensive and wrong (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVdEINfm7H4)

/s

*I'm calling spirit a maybe

Sam, it wasn't called "white weener", so there is no need for a debate on racism or sexism

[JDK]

So we should call it "White Female Empowerment"? Wait, that doesn't sound right...

:wink:

[FoolofaTook]

Him and the other commentators have mentioned that it really isn't fast beat down deck multiple times in multiple broadcasts, but ultimately for a layman or someone completely new, if you look at that decklist, it really is a white weenie deck on paper, and having to explain that it doesnt' play out that way at all every single time is sort of laborious.

If someone not really versed in how the deck plays out just sees a list with 1's and 2's and hard to kill face smashing 3's in Brimaz and Mirren Crusader with some STP's, mana disruption and a way to pump up your little dudes (equipment package), what exactly are they supposed to think the deck is? Cause that's essentially the blueprint for white weenie and has been for 20 years, just with some newer cards.

Death and Taxes is called that because nothing is inevitable in life except for Death and Taxes and facing white weenie lists when you least want to. Well, and for all the taxing that it did with Rishadan Port, Wasteland and Cataclysm. The name has always been great flavor for me.

[ESG]

Team Tusk going for it on camera in Round 8. Where is Nedleeds and his bullhorn? Maybe he's getting cards signed or still battling with a Chalice deck?

[twndomn]

Chi Hoi was in such a hurry under pressure, he messed up big time. He was floating Entreat with CB-T in play, he could have just use CB to counter opponent's TNN, instead he wasted a Counterspell on TNN. That Counterspell should have been spent on protecting Entreat. This is because when he later Entreats, SDT will be on top of library. Hence he could Entreat, if opponent FoW, he'll Counterspell knowing opponent cannot Blast/Pierce his Counterspell.

[Meekrab]

Hour long break before the top 8? 0_o So much for getting out early.

[Shawon]

Congrats to Megadeus (I believe Josh Hand) for making top 8 at SCG Atlanta!

[Humphrey]

im kinda happy, i dont have to see many scg streams next year. those wedge names annoying me so much. also its so inconsistent to have ur delver and not izzet delver m(

[twndomn]

SCG did visit ATL 3 times and St. Louis 2 times on 2014. For the first half of 2015, these cities got None, nothing.

For 2015, Indi and Baltimore got their visits Twice each, in 6 months. GG the South.

[Meekrab]

im kinda happy, i dont have to see many scg streams next year. those wedge names annoying me so much. also its so inconsistent to have ur delver and not izzet delver m(
No Izzet in current standard brah. The whole point of the wedge names is to help standard players figure out what's going on.

Also commence griping about Delver winning again.

[Megadeus]

Congrats to Megadeus (I believe Josh Hand) for making top 8 at SCG Atlanta!

Thanks! Too bad I'm garbage and got mauled by sneakand show. ANT is pretty good though. Deck felt insane

[ESG]

Thanks! Too bad I'm garbage and got mauled by sneakand show. ANT is pretty good though. Deck felt insane

Nice job. I knew you were on Team Tusk, but I wouldn't have guessed it was you. I thought you usually played Deadguy or Junk. How much experience do you have with Storm?

[Humphrey]

No Izzet in current standard brah. The whole point of the wedge names is to help standard players figure out what's going on.

Also commence griping about Delver winning again.

actually the whole point is marketing reasons... no standardplayer is going to figure anything, instead eternal players arent, too
(go figure what the G in RUG Delver vs UR Delver means and what Jeskulaisu means). Besides, after this block nobody will every use them again.

its disgusting, how they are trying to shove those names down our throats and im choking the whole time

[nedleeds]

Team Tusk going for it on camera in Round 8. Where is Nedleeds and his bullhorn? Maybe he's getting cards signed or still battling with a Chalice deck?

I was busy actually trying to win. Got my first loss in round 4, then on the other camera feature match in round 6 (?) I got my second loss.

[Megadeus]

Nice job. I knew you were on Team Tusk, but I wouldn't have guessed it was you. I thought you usually played Deadguy or Junk. How much experience do you have with Storm?

Usually do. I played TES over a year ago for a bit. Never played ANT before. Hence the heinously sloppy play with counting storm and mana on cam that round.

[JDK]

Usually do. I played TES over a year ago for a bit. Never played ANT before. Hence the heinously sloppy play with counting storm and mana on cam that round.

Or the one where you play two lands in one turn to win round 8. ;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3xsVVSYA2I

[Lemnear]

Or the one where you play two lands in one turn to win round 8. ;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3xsVVSYA2I

I just wonder about Josh not using the Infernal to copy the Therapy after the Cabal Rituals to leave John with a Terminus in hand and FoW on top left, he cannot cast :/

Would habe gotten around the risk that John draws into a CB or the like

[useL]

Or the one where you play two lands in one turn to win round 8. ;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3xsVVSYA2I

Annoying that you didnt give a time stamp. Cant bother browsing through it all.

[Megadeus]

I know on the twitch stream video my match begins around 30 hours and 40 minutes. And yes I realized the next day about the land thing. I have apologized to John. He knows I would never cheat him. I've been playing with him locally for 4 years now.

[alphastryk]

I know on the twitch stream video my match begins around 30 hours and 40 minutes. And yes I realized the next day about the land thing. I have apologized to John. He knows I would never cheat him. I've been playing with him locally for 4 years now.

Yeah - you asked the judge that was acting as the spotter and John about it too and nobody seemed to think you had played a land yet. :/

[iamajellydonut]

I just wonder about Josh not using the Infernal to copy the Therapy after the Cabal Rituals to leave John with a Terminus in hand and FoW on top left, he cannot cast :/

Would habe gotten around the risk that John draws into a CB or the like

So, you managed to identify this weird ass play that accomplishes nothing, but failed to spot that Josh could have just kept Past in Flames with the Brainstorm instead of Infernal Tutor and pushed through for a convincing win on that turn.

That being said, hindsight is 20/20 or some crap like that. I'm just happy ANT did well and The Deuce made it on camera.


Annoying that you didnt give a time stamp. Cant bother browsing through it all.

It's in the video's comments. 31 minute mark.

[JDK]

Annoying that you didnt give a time stamp. Cant bother browsing through it all.
Interesting. Then don't.

[Higgs]

I was busy actually trying to win. Got my first loss in round 4, then on the other camera feature match in round 6 (?) I got my second loss.

Do you have a link to the match, SCG don't seem to have it in their playlist?

[nedleeds]

Do you have a link to the match, SCG don't seem to have it in their playlist?

Maybe they never switched over. I wasnt watching i was playing, checking my notes it was against m. majors.

[Megadeus]

I don't think they ever switched over because you guys were in game three when the other match finished.

[nedleeds]

Don't understand why they don't prioritize based on aesthetics. My opponents deck looked respectable mine was sweet, the other decks looked awful.

[FoolofaTook]

actually the whole point is marketing reasons... no standardplayer is going to figure anything, instead eternal players arent, too
(go figure what the G in RUG Delver vs UR Delver means and what Jeskulaisu means). Besides, after this block nobody will every use them again.

its disgusting, how they are trying to shove those names down our throats and im choking the whole time

I see the Khans thing as a local phenomenon. Jeskai, Sultai, Temur, Mardu and Abzan are local names in the Khan's bloc. Lists that wind up using cards from that bloc will wind up using the names to describe them. If you're using Jeskai Ascendancy the odds are pretty good you'll wind up calling the list Jeskai something when you write it up.

If you're UWR Stoneblade but include only Treasure Cruise from Khans bloc the odds are pretty good you'll call your list UWR Stoneblade or maybe Patriot if you're an American or Tricolore if you're French.

You're right that the Khans tags will fade fairly quickly, except in the lists that use cards that specifically recall them.

[Meekrab]

Ugh Matthias you don't get Young Pyromancer tokens off artifact spells.

[Lt. Quattro]

Ugh Matthias you don't get Young Pyromancer tokens off artifact spells.

He then convinced Patrick that he missed an elemental token. :really:

[twndomn]

Please ban Hunt from casting Legacy. He didn't know how Wear//Tear works with counterbalance, he still doesn't know how YP works.

[JDK]

Please ban Hunt from casting Legacy. He didn't know how Wear//Tear works with counterbalance, he still doesn't know how YP works.

And yet he is the only caster who is able to keep up with High Tide action.

[nedleeds]

Unmuted just to hear how awful the guy with the hat is ... he gives a long winded explanation about how Containment Priest shuts down exhume when the priest is the choice from the yard.

[Meekrab]

Matthias just punted the Exhume / Containment Priest interaction.

It works against SnT because it has flash and you cast it, guy.

[iamajellydonut]

Matthias has the IQ of a meatloaf.

[nedleeds]

.... and the follow up through the uprights calling a GSZ for 3 when Thalia is in play ... mute is back on ... and some 6FU to sort my cards to


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5v8sydT8sEU

[nedleeds]

Yes. Massacre will take care of that pesky gaddock teeg.

[nedleeds]

OMG this is humiliating ... they are beating massacre into the ground with Teeg just sitting there ...

[TheAardvark]

Luckily, we will soon be rid of Matthias on commentary forever. He is the absolute worst.

[Meekrab]

What was all that freaking out about Teferi's Response? Did somebody get hit with the ol' 4 for 1?

[iamajellydonut]

I am so happy for the timing on that Fireblast.

Long live Reliquary.

[haganbmj]

I am so happy for the timing on that Fireblast.

Long live Reliquary.

It put a huge smile on my face when he cast that Fireblast with the timing he did. I love Knight math.

[Dice_Box]

Ok, what happened?

[twndomn]

Ok, what happened?

A Burn player went on an incredible run to get himself into semi-final, and on the verge of winning the match to move onto the final, only to premature trigger happy and threw himself into a misplay he will not forget for the rest of his life.

[Megadeus]

A Burn player went on an incredible run to get himself into semi-final, and on the verge of winning the match to move onto the final, only to premature trigger happy and threw himself into a misplay he will not forget for the rest of his life.

that... Didn't tell me what happened lol

[haganbmj]

He threw a Fireblast at a Knight of the Reliquary in response to a Jitte equip. McDarby activated the Knight in response, fetched a Wasteland, then Wasteland-ed his other onboard Wasteland to grow the Knight.

[bakofried]

And Maverick takes an Open. I wonder how differently that last game would have played had his opponent been more aware of the Teegfather.

[sdematt]

Teeg won the tournament? Well, I'm the happiest a father could be.

-Matt

[Allcoin]

Played against McDarby at the new Card Kingdoms event a few weeks ago and we were both 2-0 at that point, he's a very good player and am happy to see him in the winners circle.

[Kathal]

After seeing Maverick win, all I could think of was:

What year is it?

But it is nice to see that Maverick takes an Open.

Greetings,
Kathal

[iamajellydonut]

And Maverick takes an Open.

I had to go to bed last night and couldn't watch the finals. This is a good message to wake up to.

[cab0747]

And Maverick takes an Open. I wonder how differently that last game would have played had his opponent been more aware of the Teegfather.

Correct me if I am wrong, but if the UR Delver player casts Brainstorm Rather than Ponder on his last turn in G2, he wins the game. Correct?

His hand was (at least) Brainstorm, Ponder, Chain Lightning and he has 2 Volcs in play. He cast Ponder (going to 1 open mana) and finds Misty/Chain Lightning/3rd card.

Casting the ponder gave him no outs as he couldn't find and keep a land and a burn spell where as the Brainstorm could (and would have) found him both. He puts back the Ponder and the 3rd card I don;t remember, plays misty, cracks it, and throws 2 chain lightnings at his face.

Am I wrong in thinking that Ponder, no matter what he saw, did not win the game for him?

[Lemnear]

Correct me if I am wrong, but if the UR Delver player casts Brainstorm Rather than Ponder on his last turn in G2, he wins the game. Correct?

His hand was (at least) Brainstorm, Ponder, Chain Lightning and he has 2 Volcs in play. He cast Ponder (going to 1 open mana) and finds Misty/Chain Lightning/3rd card.

Casting the ponder gave him no outs as he couldn't find and keep a land and a burn spell where as the Brainstorm could (and would have) found him both. He puts back the Ponder and the 3rd card I don;t remember, plays misty, cracks it, and throws 2 chain lightnings at his face.

Am I wrong in thinking that Ponder, no matter what he saw, did not win the game for him?

You are correct. He needed a land AND a burn Spell.

[bakofried]

Did he have another brainstorm? He had already brainstormed once that turn, and I know he had brainstormed once before that.

[cab0747]

Did he have another brainstorm? He had already brainstormed once that turn, and I know he had brainstormed once before that.

He cast Ponder first and then a desperation brainstorm.

I am going from memory here, but I believe he had the option to brainstorm or ponder (I think his hand was B.storm, Ponder, Chain Lightning). He needed two things to win: a 3 damage burn spell and a land (if he decided to cast Ponder or B.storm). Since ponder can only get him one thing, he killed himself right there. If he brainstorms, he has a chance to hit both. It turns out he would have hit both if he decides to go with brainstorm.

Whatever.

[bakofried]

I need to go back and watch the coverage. I think he needed to hit burn and land on the first brainstorm (which be cast, and I'm pretty sure he led with Brainstorm, not ponder, that turn. I distinctly remember the shuffle, draw, think, scoop.

[bakofried]

I've been watching the archives and can't find a brainstorm in his hand. I think things get muddled around 26 minutes, what with Teeg/Cruise misplay. But I do not believe he had a brainstorm to cast: the border frame of the other blue card in his hand on his final turn was modern.

[Darkenslight]

I've been watching the archives and can't find a brainstorm in his hand. I think things get muddled around 26 minutes, what with Teeg/Cruise misplay. But I do not believe he had a brainstorm to cast: the border frame of the other blue card in his hand on his final turn was modern.

BS was recently printed in Conspiracy, which means that it's possible the card indeed was the 'Storm.

[Higgs]

http://8e8460c4912582c4e519-11fcbfd88ed5b90cfb46edba899033c9.r65.cf1.rackcdn.com/sales/cardscans/MAGCOL/brainstorm.jpg

[bakofried]

I'm aware, but his other brainstorms were MM. Food for thought.

[thecrav]

Pat just referred to Bomberman as "some crazy brew." A brew which T4'd an SCG in the past.

Now I'm watching "U/R Delver" that showed us an Underground Sea and 3 Cabal Therapies on turn 1.

[Teluin]

Chapin going on about Legacy getting lots of support from community, people tuning in, GP NJ attendance, etc. Wonder if he's hinting at SCG to keep the coverage/support.

[Barook]

Chapin going on about Legacy getting lots of support from community, people tuning in, GP NJ attendance, etc. Wonder if he's hinting at SCG to keep the coverage/support.
They fired Chapin, so he isn't exactly relevant anymore after this year is done.

[phonics]

Chapin going on about Legacy getting lots of support from community, people tuning in, GP NJ attendance, etc. Wonder if he's hinting at SCG to keep the coverage/support.

Really with how much delver and stoneblade they show I dont even care to watch anymore.

[Barook]

Really with how much delver and stoneblade they show I dont even care to watch anymore.
This

Holy crap, the format is in a terrible, boring state. I was looking forward to watch the invitational, but after seeing Jeskai Ascendancy vs S&T and Delver on the screen, I went to bed instead.

[barcode]

Pat just referred to Bomberman as "some crazy brew." A brew which T4'd an SCG in the past.

Now I'm watching "U/R Delver" that showed us an Underground Sea and 3 Cabal Therapies on turn 1.

Bomberman is a crazy brew as far as Legacy is concerned.

[Quasim0ff]

Bomberman is a crazy brew as far as Legacy is concerned.

I assume Bomberman in legacy is something crazy with top, salvagers and LED?

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Spellbombs.

[Darkenslight]

I assume Bomberman in legacy is something crazy with top, salvagers and LED?

Bomberman, if I recall correctly, is a Vintage deck that was ported to Legacy, utilising the Salvager's ability to generate infinite mana and do stuipid things.

[ESG]

Now I'm watching "U/R Delver" that showed us an Underground Sea and 3 Cabal Therapies on turn 1.

That was postboard, though, right?

Let's be fair: Dylan probably labeled his deck as U/R Delver, since that's how he describes his deck here (skip to 1:30):
http://www.starcitygames.com/events/coverage/quick_questions_with_dylan_don.html

I haven't seen his list in full, but it's likely similar to this one, which was also labeled U/R Delver:
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=77166

The deck is U/R Delver with no black cards in the main but a few in the SB. I don't see why this is an inaccurate labeling. If Therapies are/were in the main, I would believe the deck should be called Grixis Delver or something similar that acknowledges a maindeck splash.


Pat just referred to Bomberman as "some crazy brew." A brew which T4'd an SCG in the past.

I didn't see this part. How much info did he have on the deck when he made that comment? Bomberman hasn't been considered a real deck in this format in many years, so I could forgive someone for not recognizing it.

[Sloshthedark]

looks like Mr. Hatch brought "some crazy brew" to the table

[twndomn]

looks like Mr. Hatch brought "some crazy brew" to the table

He must be on some kind of substance. This is after his showing of Mono Blue Martyr. He's mad I'm telling you, Mad moonshiner brewing too long.

[Barook]

Did they show any non-blue decks today? Whenever I tune in, it's a Brainstorm circlejerk.

[testing32]

Did they show any non-blue decks today? Whenever I tune in, it's a Brainstorm circlejerk.

Of course not. If you were playing in the invitational, can you think of a good reason to run a non-brainstorm deck?

[wonderPreaux]

Of course not. If you were playing in the invitational, can you think of a good reason to run a non-brainstorm deck?
I guess we'll just ignore the first feature match being DnT vs Reanimator, or the fact that "brainstorm deck" is an idiotic distinction, given that Delver, Stoneblade, Miracles, Reanimator, Sneak/Show, and Storm are all very different decks.

[LOLWut]

Of course not. If you were playing in the invitational, can you think of a good reason to run a non-brainstorm deck?

Spare me the "When people really want to win in 'This time, It's for Realz' situations, they have to play Brainstorm" line.

These are the Legacy decks that went 7-1 or better in the last five Invitationals:

October 2013 in Indianapolis (http://sales.starcitygames.com/deckdatabase/deckshow.php?t%5BT2%5D=3&event_ID=&feedin=&start_date=2013-10-27&end_date=2013-10-27&city=Indianapolis&state=&country=&start=710&finish=810&exp=&p_first=&p_last=&simple_card_name%5B1%5D=&simple_card_name%5B2%5D=&simple_card_name%5B3%5D=&simple_card_name%5B4%5D=&simple_card_name%5B5%5D=&w_perc=0&g_perc=0&r_perc=0&b_perc=0&u_perc=0&a_perc=0&comparison%5B1%5D=%3E%3D&card_qty%5B1%5D=1&card_name%5B1%5D=&comparison%5B2%5D=%3E%3D&card_qty%5B2%5D=1&card_name%5): EsperBlade, Affinity, Sneak & Show, Sneak & Show, Imperial Painter, ANT, EsperBlade, 12-Post, Miracles, U/R Delver, Sneak & Show, Reanimator, U/W/R Delver
December 2013 in Las Vegas (http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=12413): Death & Taxes, EsperBlade, EsperBlade, MUD, Canadian Threshold, Junk
March 2014 in Charlotte (http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=13347): DeathBlade, Infect, Miracles, BUG Nic Fit, Imperial Painter, MUD, Team America, Elves, DeathBlade, Turbo Depths, Team America, Team America, Team America
June 2014 in Columbus (http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=13958): Team America, ANT, Canadian Threshold, Sneak & Show, BUG Control, RG Combo Lands, DeathBlade, Miracles
August 2014 in New Jersey (http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=14556): Team America, Infect, Sneak & Show, Miracles, bUrg Tempo, DeathBlade, Shardless BUG, Dredge, Sneak & Show, DeathBlade, Miracles, Elves

It wouldn't surprise me if a higher--or equal--percentage of Invitational-goers sported "Brainstorm decks" than placed with "Brainstorm decks".

I noticed that there often seemed to be more Brainstorm decks in the overall placings that incorporate Standard, probably because the super grinder non-Legacy specialists always play the Brainstorm shell, making that echo chamber even louder, which is even more resonating as those grinders with "Brainstorm decks" are usually quite skilled. The opposite factor of nonexpert Legacy players picking up decks with the familiar blue shell and dragging down the performance is a factor, but I don't believe it's the dominant one.

Just look at the combined Legacy/Standard top 8 from Indianapolis: Sneak & Show, Sneak & Show, Shardless BUG, Sneak & Show, Sneak & Show, EsperBlade, Shardless BUG, U/W/R Delver. From above, what actually topped in the Legacy portion: EsperBlade, Affinity, Sneak & Show, Sneak & Show, Imperial Painter, ANT, EsperBlade, 12-Post, Miracles, U/R Delver, Sneak & Show, Reanimator, U/W/R Delver.

LOLOL. Looks like it's more of a brain problem than a Brainstorm problem. Contributing evidence that those grinders and "pros" also gunning for Standard, filling out tournament attendance, and establishing the narrative are usually on Brainstorm, even if Brainstorm isn't actually crushing all comers.

[testing32]

It's the way the format is now man.

http://www.starcitygames.com/events/coverage/3036_legacy_71_or_better_decklists.html

There are the 7-1 for this invi. All BS decks and Di.

[Sloshthedark]

It's the way the format is now man.

http://www.starcitygames.com/events/coverage/3036_legacy_71_or_better_decklists.html

There are the 7-1 for this invi. All BS decks and Di.
It's the way it has always been
All = 5 of 6 decks total, lol

[sdematt]

Gotta love this lack of coverage. No camera coverage, no decklists and they're in the Top 8.

-Matt

[Allcoin]

Finally got our legacy deck lists... Congrats to Shawn and Daniel on top 8ing

[Megadeus]

Between them combining the lists with modern and using the Khans clan names, it's making my brain hurt trying to figure out what deck is what

[Darkenslight]

Gotta love this lack of coverage. No camera coverage, no decklists and they're in the Top 8.

-Matt

To be fair, it's not SCG's fault that Davis went six rounds in the invi Finals with his UW Control list. :tongue:

[iamajellydonut]

They can't even separate Legacy and Modern decklists?

[H]

They can't even separate Legacy and Modern decklists?

:eyebrow:

I don't know I found this pretty easily this morning: Legacy top 16 (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/deckshow.php?t[T2]=3&event_ID=45&feedin=&start_date=12%2F14%2F2014&end_date=12%2F14%2F2014&city=Seattle&state=&country=&start=1&finish=16&exp=&p_first=&p_last=&simple_card_name[1]=&simple_card_name[2]=&simple_card_name[3]=&simple_card_name[4]=&simple_card_name[5]=&w_perc=0&g_perc=0&r_perc=0&b_perc=0&u_perc=0&a_perc=0&comparison[1]=%3E%3D&card_qty[1]=1&card_name[1]=&comparison[2]=%3E%3D&card_qty[2]=1&card_nam)

[iamajellydonut]

:eyebrow:

I don't know I found this pretty easily this morning: Legacy top 16 (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/deckshow.php?t[T2]=3&event_ID=45&feedin=&start_date=12%2F14%2F2014&end_date=12%2F14%2F2014&city=Seattle&state=&country=&start=1&finish=16&exp=&p_first=&p_last=&simple_card_name[1]=&simple_card_name[2]=&simple_card_name[3]=&simple_card_name[4]=&simple_card_name[5]=&w_perc=0&g_perc=0&r_perc=0&b_perc=0&u_perc=0&a_perc=0&comparison[1]=%3E%3D&card_qty[1]=1&card_name[1]=&comparison[2]=%3E%3D&card_qty[2]=1&card_nam)

Using the little "Decklist" tab on the side, you get this. Abzan Midrange is really giving Brainstorm a run for its money.

http://sales.starcitygames.com/deckdatabase/deckshow.php?event_ID=45&start_date=2014-12-14&end_date=2014-12-14&state=WA&city=Seattle&order_1=finish&limit=8&t_num=1&action=Show+Decks

[Megadeus]

Yeahthat's what I found as well. Also congrats to Shawn Yu for the top 8! I wish it were with zoo but we'll take what we can get. Deck still looks like a whole lot of fun

[danyul]

Yeahthat's what I found as well. Also congrats to Shawn Yu for the top 8! I wish it were with zoo but we'll take what we can get. Deck still looks like a whole lot of fun

It's funny. You might be the only person who ever roots for Shawn. The Seattle crew is always giving him shit no matter how well he finishes. I think that's what fuels his inner rage. You shouldn't encourage his delinquent behavior.

[lordofthepit]

It's funny. You might be the only person who ever roots for Shawn. The Seattle crew is always giving him shit no matter how well he finishes. I think that's what fuels his inner rage. You shouldn't encourage his delinquent behavior.

You're not invited to Sizzlers with us.

[danyul]

:(

I made a misplay.

[H]

You've got to make sure you have the box checked at the top for "Click here to list only Legacy deck names."

If you get to it from Decks->Legacy Deck Database, it defaults to being checked.

[iamajellydonut]

You've got to make sure you have the box checked at the top for "Click here to list only Legacy deck names."

If you get to it from Decks->Legacy Deck Database, it defaults to being checked.

But... then what's the point in this box if it doesn't actually function?

http://i.imgur.com/OQglSJd.png

[H]

But... then what's the point in this box if it doesn't actually function?


I have literally never even seen that before in my life and I have been going to the website for like 6 years, :laugh:

I always go to Decks at the top.

I guess for some reason they broke their own link...

[lyracian]

I guess for some reason they broke their own link...
They missed &t%5BC1%5D=3 off the link. I expect someone was tired when they posted it.

[danyul]

I guess for some reason they broke their own link...

SCG has gotten so successful that they can afford to pull a WOTC once in awhile.

[Allcoin]

:(

I made a misplay.

Those little elves do that sometimes. Congrats on top 8 none the less.

[danyul]

Thanks bub.

[iamajellydonut]

Thanks bub.

!

I didn't even notice the names. Grats, boo.

[danyul]

Thx bby.

I haven't gone back to watch the stream (and to be honest, I likely never will) but did they even acknowledge the Legacy Premier IQ event at all? It's one thing to lose coverage of Legacy on Sundays. But it feels like a completely different level of abandonment for them to never even mention that there's a 200+ person Legacy event happening in a corner of the room.

[iamajellydonut]

Tin Fins is now "Shallow Graves Reanimator".

In other news, do we get a new title for this thread now that SCG's coverage is-as-lousy-as-WotC's coverage?

[TheAardvark]

Tin Fins is now "Shallow Graves Reanimator".

In other news, do we get a new title for this thread now that SCG's coverage is-as-lousy-as-WotC's coverage?

The coverage itself is miles better than WotC's, and probably always will be. I assume you are saying this because they're only doing Legacy X times a year; that doesn't affect the quality of the coverage in any way.

[Megadeus]

I'm glad that million dollar pox got top 16

[thecrav]

I find it interesting that even though they've got Legacy Decklists, that information is not conveyed on the big ad at the top like it used to:

http://i.imgur.com/G0tNGNe.png

[lordofthepit]

I find it interesting that even though they've got Legacy Decklists, that information is not conveyed on the big ad at the top like it used to:

http://i.imgur.com/G0tNGNe.png

Modern lists are also available, but not conveyed either. This is just lazy/slow updating, rather than something nefarious.

[iamajellydonut]

The coverage itself is miles better than WotC's, and probably always will be. I assume you are saying this because they're only doing Legacy X times a year; that doesn't affect the quality of the coverage in any way.

I would consider no coverage to be bad coverage.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Yeah, what, they put on a whole big shindig, but then just can't be bothered to hit "record"?

[iamajellydonut]

Also, "Tribal Zoo" is such a misleading name.

[thecrav]

Modern lists are also available, but not conveyed either. This is just lazy/slow updating, rather than something nefarious.

As far as I know, Modern has never been listed there. I'm not saying they're right or wrong to have excluded decklists not from the main event on their homepage but I do find it interesting that they're de-emphasizing formats that aren't the main event.

[ESG]

SCG has tinkered in the past and rolled back changes when things didn't turn out the way they wanted them to. The decks are listed. You just have to click the main pane (Joe's pic) and then click on the "Legacy" tab below the video screen.

Obviously if the shift to two-day Opens and the prize bump to Standard don't result in a high enough increase to attendance, then SCG will make changes halfway through the year. This is also a reason why they don't announce a full year of events all at once.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Snip

[lyracian]

Obviously if the shift to two-day Opens and the prize bump to Standard don't result in a high enough increase to attendance, then SCG will make changes halfway through the year. This is also a reason why they don't announce a full year of events all at once.
The question is what is "high enough" attendance? 659 players on Saturday and a combined 412 on Sunday is $45,310 in entry fee, less £30k prizes leaves SCG $15,310 gross profit; more than enough cash to cover staff and venue hire. The main change we have no visibility on is card sales. If the new format brings them more card sales (ie profit), even with lower numbers, then the new format is likely to stick.

[Megadeus]

My only thought is that it in theory wouldn't bring more card sales though right? You have the same amount of standard players, but less legacy players and maybe slightly more modern?

[Koby]

Modern lists are also available, but not conveyed either. This is just lazy/slow updating, rather than something nefarious.

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."

[ReAnimator]

The question is what is "high enough" attendance? 659 players on Saturday and a combined 412 on Sunday is $45,310 in entry fee, less £30k prizes leaves SCG $15,310 gross profit; more than enough cash to cover staff and venue hire. The main change we have no visibility on is card sales. If the new format brings them more card sales (ie profit), even with lower numbers, then the new format is likely to stick.

Your understanding of what staff and venue expenses cost is laughably adorable.

[lordofthepit]

The question is what is "high enough" attendance? 659 players on Saturday and a combined 412 on Sunday is $45,310 in entry fee, less £30k prizes leaves SCG $15,310 gross profit; more than enough cash to cover staff and venue hire. The main change we have no visibility on is card sales. If the new format brings them more card sales (ie profit), even with lower numbers, then the new format is likely to stick.


The previous SCG Columbus in November brought in 757 players for the Standard Open, 259 for the Legacy Open, and 181 for the Modern PIQ. At $40 for the Opens and $30 for the PIQ, that's $46070 brought in, minus $25000 paid out in prizes. The most recent one brought in $45310 in entry, minus $30000 paid out in prizes.

The previous SCG Seattle in March brought in 580 players for the Standard Open and 321 for the Legacy Open. There was no Modern PIQ. It brought in $36040 in entry, paid out $20000 in prizes. The most recent one brought in $33430 in entry (449 Standard, 222 Legacy PIQ, 144 Modern PIQ), minus $30000 paid out in prizes. Note that despite the Seattle Open in December falling on an Invitational weekend (which typically boosts attendance considerably) and that the March Open had no Modern PIQ, the March Open still resulted in greater entry fees.

Those are the only two data points we have so far.

[nedleeds]

The other data point you are missing is how much SCG was able to buy on a given weekend. I think that is a huge driver for the caravan style Open Series. The ability to buy from the greater Roanoke area is rather limited.

[H]

The other data point you are missing is how much SCG was able to buy on a given weekend. I think that is a huge driver for the caravan style Open Series. The ability to buy from the greater Roanoke area is rather limited.

Very true, but it's impossible for us to know how much they bought and at what margin at any given location. I think it is reasonable to suppose that the larger the attendance, the more they bought and therefore the more they made through purchasing, but I don't think that is an lead-pipe lock. There certainly can be some variance there, but I think if you use larger attendance meaning larger buy-list activity, you'll be right a lot more often that you are wrong.

[Koby]

Very true, but it's impossible for us to know how much they bought and at what margin at any given location. I think it is reasonable to suppose that the larger the attendance, the more they bought and therefore the more they made through purchasing, but I don't think that is an lead-pipe lock. There certainly can be some variance there, but I think if you use larger attendance meaning larger buy-list activity, you'll be right a lot more often that you are wrong.

There is certainly a direct correlation between the size of the show and the amount bought at the show. However, the two can be thought up as piece-meal for the purpose of looking at SCG's performance / popularity. There are in fact three items to consider:

1) Rake of Entry fees
2) Cost of travel, booking fees, and personnel
2A) Costs for Event team
2B) Costs for Sales team
3) Revenue of goods purchased

#1 is easy to calculate, and is public knowledge. #2 is variable depending on the venue. #3 is wildly variant on the customers who show up. I don't think it is atypical for the SCG Sales team to buy between $20K and $30K at each show, and likely even higher. #3 is clearly tied in with the sales model for SCG, and the access to regionalized markets each week via the traveling road show provides unparalleled access to discount stock.

I think we can safely ignore #3 for the purpose of "popularity" of the show at each stop. We can also safely assume #2 each show costs roughly the same to travel and setup. While these are added costs for SCG, they are more or less fixed compared to the entrants. I think lordofthepit is simply trying to capture whether each stop is profitable for SCG by comparing the new and old systems from the event offerings.

Higher entry fees and higher prizing doesn't necessarily indicate higher profits for SCG. But we only have two data points to look at, both of which show a mediocre sized $20K Open Series event that's comparable to last year's larger $10K events in the same Ohio/New England areas. My hypothesis is that the allure of the higher prize payout may not be as great of a draw for most regional players as SCG was hoping would be.

[lordofthepit]

The other data point you are missing is how much SCG was able to buy on a given weekend. I think that is a huge driver for the caravan style Open Series. The ability to buy from the greater Roanoke area is rather limited.

Sure, but there's no way to estimate this.

However, we do know that the aggregate attendance numbers are actually down with this new format change. We also know that the new Grand Prix-style format and the two-bye system caters to the grinders who are willing to travel more than it does to regional players (who presumably are less likely to attend given the two-day commitment), meaning that these attendance numbers probably understate the dropoff in the number of unique players on the circuit. Thus, this probably means fewer players coming in to sell and buy cards.

[lyracian]

Your understanding of what staff and venue expenses cost is laughably adorable.
I do not live in America so maybe the cost there are radically different? I know my friends that work as Judges get paid a Box a day and that locally a venue would be about $7-8000 to hire. If you have more information about venue cost in America perhaps you would care to share?

[thecrav]

T#3 is wildly variant on the customers who show up. I don't think it is atypical for the SCG Sales team to buy between $20K and $30K at each show, and likely even higher.

FWIW, based on purely anecdotal data, I'd estimate it's much higher. At the last couple DFW opens, they've completely run out of cash both days. At GP:NJ (obviously a different level of event), I personally witnessed two sales that totalled over 20K between them.

[Megadeus]

FWIW, based on purely anecdotal data, I'd estimate it's much higher. At the last couple DFW opens, they've completely run out of cash both days. At GP:NJ (obviously a different level of event), I personally witnessed two sales that totalled over 20K between them.

I think I've only been to one open that I didn't explicitly hear that they had run out of cash for buying

[ESG]

I think I've only been to one open that I didn't explicitly hear that they had run out of cash for buying

Ditto.

[Barook]

FYI, the coverage of the Legacy main event has started.

[Darkenslight]

FYI, the coverage of the Legacy main event has started.

Yup. I'm surprised by just how potent a 3/4 for three is in Legacy.

[maharis]

What card? I saw "Punishing Temur" on the preview screen but by the time I started the stream it was between rounds.

[Meekrab]

What card? I saw "Punishing Temur" on the preview screen but by the time I started the stream it was between rounds.
Brimaz; but Karakas played co-star.

[mrjumbo03]

What card? I saw "Punishing Temur" on the preview screen but by the time I started the stream it was between rounds.

Brimaz.

Wow, the Elves player totally threw away that game. It wasn't enough that he almost made a misplay by untapping before fetching an Arbor for the win (he quickly backed up to fetch the Arbor) but then he goes on to make the Gaea's Cradle booboo.

[conboy31]

Brimaz.

Wow, the Elves player totally threw away that game. It wasn't enough that he almost made a misplay by untapping before fetching an Arbor for the win (he quickly backed up to fetch the Arbor) but then he goes on to make the Gaea's Cradle booboo.

(IIRC) In addition to all that, didn't he have a cabal therapy in his GY that Cook durres'd away? He knew Cook had Rite of Flame via therapy on X and then fb on brainstorm. Then Cook took the 2nd therapy after probing him, and Elves never flashed it back.

[Anen]

Myles bolted his own Delver to prevent Griseldad lifelink. Can we see more UR being crushed please? :)

[Darkenslight]

...Is the double-open thiong meaning that there's more than two Feature matches each round?

Because that's what it looked like.

[nedleeds]

LOL. Man dies to Ponder and Brainstorm with SCM and Pyroblast in graveyard.

[Meekrab]

What the Emrakul is 'Sultai Control'? Shardless CounterbalanceTop?

[nedleeds]

lol, osyp miracle facing certain doom with a handful of bricks ... brainstorm -> verdict, entreat, top ... HAAHAHAHAHA honestly FU.

[Meekrab]

Fabiano with a little on camera Sensei's Divining Brainstorm action right there, oops.

[Einherjer]

Followed by an example of how not to cast Brainstorm in Miracles. *sighs*

Greetings

[Darkenslight]

Joe Lossett just got wrecked G1 vs Angel Stax.

[haxorz]

How was the angel stax player's play to "forget" his challice trigger legal? In this context, this was a beneficial trigger (especially, iirc, assuming he already had banishing light in hand). Shouldn't the table judge have intervened?

[Barook]

How was the angel stax player's play to "forget" his challice trigger legal? In this context, this was a beneficial trigger (especially, iirc, assuming he already had banishing light in hand). Shouldn't the table judge have intervened?
Maybe I'm missing something, but what would Joe have gotten out of this if the Angel Staxx player had actually remembered his trigger?

[shaggai]

Why the **** am I watching two 4-2 players AND a U/R delver mirror??? I don't care that he's the meddling mage - 4-2 man....

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Cuz itz kewl, Breaux.

[haxorz]

Maybe I'm missing something, but what would Joe have gotten out of this if the Angel Staxx player had actually remembered his trigger?

Nothing. But that doesn't matter. Even if Joe knew that Angel Stax player *would* remember his trigger, it's still illegal for the player to intentionally forget his trigger, even if such a trigger is not beneficial (recall that the judge is supposed to give the other player a choice of putting the missed trigger on the stack or not doing so).

[lyracian]

Maybe I'm missing something, but what would Joe have gotten out of this if the Angel Staxx player had actually remembered his trigger?Joe was dead either way; the point though it about rules of the game and missed trigger policy. You cannot choose to not have Chalice trigger.


Why the **** am I watching two 4-2 players AND a U/R delver mirror??? I don't care that he's the meddling mage - 4-2 man....
Some of us do care about the Meddling Mage and, personally, I enjoyed watching that match.

[Julian23]

Patrick Sullivan didn't know what he was talking about. Had the Angel Stax player intentionally "missed" his trigger, he would be DQ'ed for Cheating.

[haxorz]

Patrick Sullivan didn't know what he was talking about. Had the Angel Stax player intentionally "missed" his trigger, he would be DQ'ed for Cheating.

Right that's my point. So why wasn't the player DQ'ed? The judge didn't even question him.

[Julian23]

I assume because the judge wasn't aware. It's very unintuitive to assume that one player missing his Chalice trigger on an opponent's spell could be intentional in the first place.

[conboy31]

How was the angel stax player's play to "forget" his challice trigger legal? In this context, this was a beneficial trigger (especially, iirc, assuming he already had banishing light in hand). Shouldn't the table judge have intervened?

I didn't think twice about him forgetting the trigger, and wanted Joe to make the play a turn earlier because I assumed he would miss it. It is easy to see how he would miss it: he's the type of guy to play a tier 2.x deck, he looked relatively young, he was so far ahead he was probably on auto pilot, and he had an answer to to a creature so he could have been thinking if Joe brings back X I can banish it. Which quickly shortcutted to, he's taking my own baneslayer? Oh, and I can banish it.

That said, he had 9 points of power on board vs. Joes 6 life before casting reanimate. Sure the judge probably should have given him a quick quiz, but to me it seemed normal.

Edit- just saw his deck tech and my opinion hasn't changed. "I don't play much legacy". Basically took Gerrards list from SCG. And didn't know about Baneslayer v. Grisel until someone pointed it out to him. It makes sense that he's an alright player that was a little out of his element and missed a trigger.

[Hopo]

Is the video coverage from yesterday available already or do they release it after weekend only?

[testing32]

Is the video coverage from yesterday available already or do they release it after weekend only?

http://www.twitch.tv/scglive/b/609382072

[lyracian]

Today's coverage just starting

[Barook]

And back to 6-3 matches, including Delver. :mad:

[GnuHouse]

Is Eli's Volcanic Island a true miscut? It looks like someone took an uncut sheet and intentionally miscut it.

[death]

For those who want to tune in on their smartphones, here's the link:

http://www.twitch.tv/team/scg

[Quasim0ff]

Is Eli's Volcanic Island a true miscut? It looks like someone took an uncut sheet and intentionally miscut it.
That's exactly what happened.

[Dice_Box]

Those lands are some of the most ugly things I have ever seen. Shit man, just play Beta lands. You have them I know it.

[nedleeds]

the ole pre game 3 shake ... awkward

[Darkenslight]

Good gods, Fabiano is playing extremely sloppily.

[ReAnimator]

And back to 6-3 matches, including Delver. :mad:

Isn't X-3 still in contention in a 15 round tournament? Pretty sure it is, so why not show it if it's an interesting matchup or players?

[Barook]

so why not show it if it's an interesting matchup or players?
That's the kicker, it was neither.

[ReAnimator]

That's the kicker, it was neither.

Ah, ok, at least they were in contention though, that's something. :/

[Secretly.A.Bee]

And there goes the sound.

[Darkenslight]

And there goes the sound.

Still better than Delver vs. X.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Ummm it is Delver vs. X.

[Darkenslight]

Ummm it is Delver vs. X.

IT was a Twitch bug on Grixis vs Prison. But yes, there's a lot of Delver at the top tables.

[ReAnimator]

And there goes the sound.

Refresh for sound, it's a twitch bug.

[maharis]

Wtf is Rudy doing

[Meekrab]

And back to 6-3 matches, including Delver. :mad:
Uhhh that's how SCG rolls, they try their hardest to show matches where one player is getting eliminated from top 8.