SCG and its not-as-lousy-as-WotC coverage

[Secretly.A.Bee]

SCG Coverage is my football. I watch the coverage every Sunday. I'm starting this thread in part just to bitch, because it is 3:10 pm and coverage won't start for another 20 minutes. This would NEVER happen to the Standard portion of the event.

The other part is to ask why. Why do they consider the legacy end 2nd-rate? They make boatloads of cash off us and manipulate the market of those cards specifically, why won't they at least give us our fair share of face time? It's not like we haven't paid for it fair and square already.

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[mini1337s]

SCG Coverage is my football. I watch the coverage every Sunday. I'm starting this thread in part just to bitch, because it is 3:10 pm and coverage won't start for another 20 minutes. This would NEVER happen to the Standard portion of the event.

The other part is to ask why. Why do they consider the legacy end 2nd-rate? They make boatloads of cash off us and manipulate the market of those cards specifically, why won't they at least give us our fair share of face time? It's not like we haven't paid for it fair and square already.

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The announcers have been on the go since yesterday. Obviously, my preference is quality Legacy coverage, but I can understand if people need to take breaks.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Sure, but they know that it's a hectic schedule. Shouldn't SCG make sure they have an appropriate amount of announcers rather than short-change their viewers? I'm not saying that they shouldn't take breaks, but they should make sure that we get our time as well.

Edit: and now it's "back at 3:35". First it's 3, then 3:30, maybe they should just say "back at our own convenience." Total crap. Happens almost every event, too, just not quite this fucking bad.

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[rxavage]

Not to defend SCG, but, I think it's a throwback to when they had byes. Also, unlike a GP or PT there are fewer known names so the first few rounds are slightly harder to find interesting games to feature in the earlier rounds. I would watch randoms match-ups featuring pet decks and tier 2 decks for the first few rounds piloted by unknowns and noobs, may even be more entertaining than seeing the same people on the same decks week after week.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Back on at round fucking 5. Are you freaking kidding me?!?

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[TheArchitect]

Sure, but they know that it's a hectic schedule. Shouldn't SCG make sure they have an appropriate amount of announcers rather than short-change their viewers? I'm not saying that they shouldn't take breaks, but they should make sure that we get our time as well.

One of the their big changes for 2014 was making coverage more "professional" just just having random good magic players in the booth, but having a small set cast do the coverage with Pat Sullivan and Cedric Philips being the "main" commentators. I think this was a step in the right direction, but after covering 11 rounds of standard (ew) AND a top in the past 24 hours give the guys a break sheesh.

SCG business practices I am not a big fan of, but when it comes to their tournaments and their coverage, no one really does it better. I don't think they mean to short change legacy. Legacy just happens to come the day after standard and the casters need a break at some point.

I am the same way with SCG legacy being my sunday afternoon football though, so I definitely am a bit bummed not to see coverage till 4 in the afternoon.

EDIT: also, they definitely make money off legacy, but their standard prices are just as inflated and there are not only more players spending money on standard, but the amount any competitive player spends on standard is WAY more than your average competitive legacy player spends. Standard costs like 500-1000$ a year. Legacy costs like 500-2500$ once.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

I'm not irritated with the commentators but rather whoever (whomever?) makes the decision to only send 2 of them for a 2-day event. That's just being cheap.

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[twndomn]

SCG Coverage is my football. I watch the coverage every Sunday. I'm starting this thread in part just to bitch, because it is 3:10 pm and coverage won't start for another 20 minutes. This would NEVER happen to the Standard portion of the event.

The other part is to ask why. Why do they consider the legacy end 2nd-rate? They make boatloads of cash off us and manipulate the market of those cards specifically, why won't they at least give us our fair share of face time? It's not like we haven't paid for it fair and square already.

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Instead of looking at the deficiency of Legacy coverage, maybe we should be grateful there IS a legacy circuit in United States.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Instead of looking at the deficiency of Legacy coverage, maybe we should be grateful there IS a legacy circuit in United States.

I don't think I ever purveyed any ungratefulness, maybe I'm a little greedy, but I also feel a little burned by the company for taking away the only SCG event I could ever really make it to without having to drop >$500 just to attend. I now refer you to SCG Denver.

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[mini1337s]

I'm not irritated with the commentators but rather whoever (whomever?) makes the decision to only send 2 of them for a 2-day event. That's just being cheap.

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Normally coverage is staffed a bit heavier, but Mathias Hunt was at the Pro Tour this weekend, taking away one body from the team.

[Megadeus]

I think Im mostly annoyed with the fact that I have had 2 Shardless vs Deathblade MUs in a row. What a snooze fest. to be fair though it did inspire me to go do my laundry

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Same. I'm washing a load of jeans, work clothes in the dryer. What matchups-err loads...never mind. Bored.

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[Megadeus]

Another Shardless vs Deathblade MU? Done. Playing GTAV

[Secretly.A.Bee]

This is kinda like the Super Bowl...

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[Megadeus]

Now an esper deathblade mirror... kill me now please

[Anen]

One more for you, Esper deathblade mirror. Yawn.. Let's play Pokemon X instead.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Crap, they are going to ban true-name, aren't they?

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[GoblinSettler]

They've just announced the top 8:

Joe Bernal, Andrew Tenjum, Joe Bernal, Andrew Tenjum, Joe Bernal, Andrew Tenjum, Joe Bernal, and Andrew Tenjum sneaks in at eigth on breakers.

[Lt. Quattro]

They've just announced the top 8:

Joe Bernal, Andrew Tenjum, Joe Bernal, Andrew Tenjum, Joe Bernal, Andrew Tenjum, Joe Bernal, and Andrew Tenjum sneaks in at eigth on breakers.

But Joe Bernal is playing on camera right now, are you from the future?

[Secretly.A.Bee]

How clever can one man be...?

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[Lt. Quattro]

Are the top tables just filled with various u/w/x/ stoneforge decks? Sooooooooooooooo boring to watch these decks, especially mirrors.

[Megadeus]

Yeah the field seems miserable. Wish the painter deck would have kept winning

[Secretly.A.Bee]

If I could have found 50 lousy more bucks, I'd be there playing Tin Fins right now. It's just so far (10 hours).

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[thecrav]

I haven't seen enough Deathblade games. I sure could use some more.

I guess since the banning, they've got to find some way to push DRS :/

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Lol a couple arguments from earlier lost credence a couple gain it. Let me watch random early match games if this is the crap you are gonna spoon feed me later, SCG.

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[Exuberance]

At least Deathblade isn't in the finals. Instead it's... Imperial Painter.
Blood Moon.
Attack for two.
Attack for two.
Attack for two.
Attack for two.
Attack for two.
Attack for two.
Attack for two.
Attack for two.
Attack for two.
Attack for two.
Attack for two.
Attack for two.
Attack for two.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

It still has a chance. I think I prefer RUG to go to the finals but idk how it's going to go.

Edit: and wtf is the deal with the Sexual Harassment Panda product push? I hate the art for all this junk. The free turtle tokens they sent me last year with my order? I put my cigarette out on them.

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[Anen]

And Imperial Painter kicked Delver/TNN/Uxx asses like a champ :D

[thecrav]

My primary concern is the lack of diversity that they show. In the top 8, I can understand because they've only got 4/2/1 matchup they can cover.

Based on their tweets, matchups from before the top 8:
Esper Deathblade v Shardless BUG
BUG Delver v ANT
Shardless BUG v Esper Deathblade
Imperial Painter v Death and Taxes
Shardless BUG vs Esper Deathblade
Esper Deathblade vs Esper Deathblade

That's 5 different decks across 6 matches covered:
5 Esper Deathblade
3 Shardless BUG
1 ANT
1 Imperial Painter
1 Death and Taxes

There were 13 different decks in the top 16, so it's not like there weren't other decks at the top tables - they just chose not to cover them.

I understand that they're trying to push a certain story line but it seems to me that in the long run, focusing only on one deck will lose more customers to boredom than it will gain or keep.

I'd be curious to see these same stats applied over a year or two of opens to see what, if any, trend exists.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Yeah, they did frame it up. So much deathblade.

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[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

Why would they ban TNN we have clear evidence that just maindeck 8 REBs instead is a viable alternative strategy.

In related news, this fucking metagame...

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Lol.

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[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

Uh, do we have another problem with potential cheating at first? They're listing the RUG Delver (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=63831) as winner and the presumed winning Painter list isn't being displayed.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Jesus. What now?

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[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

"Player was disqualified for pre-boarding against his opponents, even going so far as to mis-register his submitted decklist."

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Damn cheaters. So tired of this specific problem in the competitive circuit. Do you have a link?

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[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

I was kidding in a continuation of the "8 maindeck REBs being a reasonable meta choice" joke.

I am not sure why the decklist results are wonky. A DQ is possible but I am not presuming it.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Oh. You need to do some soul-searching on your sense of humor. I couldn't even tell. Just sounded like more anti-blue rhetoric...

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[GoblinSettler]

The link was broken as soon as the lists went up. The finals hadn't even started yet.

I don't think there's anything shady.

[Darkenslight]

Normally coverage is staffed a bit heavier, but Mathias Hunt was at the Pro Tour this weekend, taking away one body from the team.

Actually, pretty much their entire commentating staff were at PT: BNG; either as Coverage or playing.

[force_of_phil]

The coverage was pretty miserable until the semi-finals. Watching that painter player roll it slow and cover all the angles was really nice, especially when he named red on servant to prevent the RUG player's pyroblast in the finals. Not that it would have mattered, but seeing a fringe deck played at that level is entertaining even if the games weren't.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

The coverage was pretty miserable until the semi-finals. Watching that painter player roll it slow and cover all the angles was really nice, especially when he named red on servant to prevent the RUG player's pyroblast in the finals. Not that it would have mattered, but seeing a fringe deck played at that level is entertaining even if the games weren't.

It was. However, I prefer this metagame to a banhammer-happy one. I would like to see Survival come back as well. I think it's power level is adequate but not overly, at least with this specific meta. Not that I want this thread to derail into metagame semantics.

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[Acclimation]

I got skipped over multiple times on Sunday for feature matches, I was at table 6, and the matches went table 1, table 5, table 7, table 12 (or something similar), and again at table 9 when it was tables 6,7, 8, and 11.


Anti-combo conspiracy, man.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

They make terrible choices. It does feel like a "frame job."

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[Scott]

I hesitate to share emails but because I'm a big fan of SCG and Cedric Phillips (despite my complaints about coverage focusing on well-known players and the same decks), I'll share Cedric's response to a Customer Service message of mine, because it explains their reasoning, even if I disagree with it. The relevant bits:

"Our coverage has shifted towards focusing on great players instead of interesting decks. We have found that it is much more compelling for the viewer at home to watch a skilled player playing a great deck as opposed to a player of varying skill level playing an interesting deck. We will, of course, feature an innovative deck that is making a deep run in a tournament (Kennen Haas in Indianapolis for example), but metrics have shown that the audience cares much more about seeing a recognizable face playing Magic at a high level."

[Megadeus]

I personally would rather see an interesting deck (assuming it is doing well). I understand and am fine with them showing good players, but I really hate to see the same people/deck so often.

[warfordium]

while i buy the argument about wanting to see better players, it really has to be balanced against seeing the same two goddamn decks all the time. Maybe they were hoping to hype DRS now that they won't be selling it to Modern players? plus, legacy is one of the few formats where there even are more than 5-6 decks—and coverage should reflect that.

[Hof]

metrics have shown that the audience cares much more about seeing a recognizable face playing Magic at a high level."
What? No. I don't even need to see a face, just the cards will do.

[nedleeds]

I'd rather just see nice looking decks, beta duals etc. than white bordered STPs and revised islands. When the 'pros' are using City of Traitors as super mana crypt on camera and cheating with brainstorm who cares if it's a random person.

#betafiend

[Megadeus]

while i buy the argument about wanting to see better players, it really has to be balanced against seeing the same two goddamn decks all the time. Maybe they were hoping to hype DRS now that they won't be selling it to Modern players? plus, legacy is one of the few formats where there even are more than 5-6 decks—and coverage should reflect that.

Illuminati yo

http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/17ewmh10rbr71jpg/ku-xlarge.jpg

[Koby]

I'd rather just see nice looking decks, beta duals etc. than white bordered STPs and revised islands. When the 'pros' are using City of Traitors as super mana crypt on camera and cheating with brainstorm who cares if it's a random person.

#betafiend

This is exactly what happened. Your home boy Paul Callis got featured, I instantly recognized my Patriot francophobe travel companion from May, and his sexy ass dual lands. I called it out on Twitter with respect, then fell asleep from the boring mirror match.

As for "interesting decks" vs "recognizable names"; I do my part when SCG shows up to the West Coast. I had a ton of fun with UR/b Painter back in November, and beating @wrapter on camera was a delight as well. :D

[DragoFireheart]

MtG is like Chess: fun to play, boring to watch.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

MtG is like Chess: fun to play, boring to watch.

That's your opinion. I like watching chess and magic.

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[HammafistRoob]

I like how they featured Tom Ross like 3 times playing that gimmicky infect deck. They must really want to sell dem Berserks.

[twndomn]

I like how they featured Tom Ross like 3 times playing that gimmicky infect deck. They must really want to sell dem Berserks.

would you rather see Blade deck vs Blade deck grinding fest? Or Blade deck vs Rug/Bug Delver deck?

[Secretly.A.Bee]

I was impressed with how far he went with the list. He looks like a really strong player.

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[conboy31]

I wish Todd Anderson the best, but in the booth he is a ways below the others. Obviously he needs to cover games in order to improve at it, but he seems significantly below where Ced/Psull/Hunt/Aj/etc. were when they started. Chronically saying 'like', 'you know', and ending virtually every sentence with ..."so". Also, always trying to wrap up games before they are over. Yes, the writing is on the wall, but there are other things to talk about.

[twndomn]

I wish Todd Anderson the best, but in the booth he is a ways below the others. Obviously he needs to cover games in order to improve at it, but he seems significantly below where Ced/Psull/Hunt/Aj/etc. were when they started. Chronically saying 'like', 'you know', and ending virtually every sentence with ..."so". Also, always trying to wrap up games before they are over. Yes, the writing is on the wall, but there are other things to talk about.

For God's sake, he's a substitute. I would hate to be him, out of kindness to fill in for the ill Cedric Philips, then got criticized in a down pour. He's a player and he's supposed to compete, not commentate, he's doing that as a goodwill, cut him some slack.

This is why, you gotta consider a lot of stuff before you decide to do a good deed, people are ungrateful and might not thank you for doing it.

[Arsenal]

I thought Todd's commentary was quite interesting in that he gave many different lines of play that he may have taken, even if they weren't the "best" lines. It's good to hear that from players and what they're thinking in the moment and why they choose to do what they do.

[Koby]

I wish Todd Anderson the best, but in the booth he is a ways below the others. Obviously he needs to cover games in order to improve at it, but he seems significantly below where Ced/Psull/Hunt/Aj/etc. were when they started. Chronically saying 'like', 'you know', and ending virtually every sentence with ..."so". Also, always trying to wrap up games before they are over. Yes, the writing is on the wall, but there are other things to talk about.

Commentary is hard, and especially keeping focus when you could make the obvious John Madden style garbage. Filling in dead space is even harder without veering off and completely losing your audience. I think he could do fine with a little bit of coaching and focus.

[Machahiko]

I think the commentators are getting better and better, Cedric Phillips for example has improved so much that I wish he casted every game of legacy @SCG. The problems in stream are that they have only one game going on so once the game is done they have to stop until the next round begins. I wish there wasn't so much downtime, it's like 1/3 of actual gameplay and 2/3 of already played content and stanretarded. It would be awesome if they had like two matchups going on at once, they start at table 1 but if the game's over fast they switch to match 2. While they are casting the match 2 they could find some people who have just finished their game and move them to table 1 so they'll be the 3rd game we'll possibly see.

It's "nice" to see the stories of players and how they advance in the tournament, but if they only play Esper Deathblade they could really switch it up. That deck has become so familiar lately that I don't want to watch a single game of that deck. Even when RUG Delver was the top dog they STILL showed more Esper Deathblade than RUG. What the hell?

Also, more combo matches please.

[Ziveeman]

I think the commentators are getting better and better, Cedric Phillips for example has improved so much that I wish he casted every game of legacy @SCG. The problems in stream are that they have only one game going on so once the game is done they have to stop until the next round begins. I wish there wasn't so much downtime, it's like 1/3 of actual gameplay and 2/3 of already played content and stanretarded. It would be awesome if they had like two matchups going on at once, they start at table 1 but if the game's over fast they switch to match 2. While they are casting the match 2 they could find some people who have just finished their game and move them to table 1 so they'll be the 3rd game we'll possibly see.

It's "nice" to see the stories of players and how they advance in the tournament, but if they only play Esper Deathblade they could really switch it up. That deck has become so familiar lately that I don't want to watch a single game of that deck. Even when RUG Delver was the top dog they STILL showed more Esper Deathblade than RUG. What the hell?

Also, more combo matches please.

They do have a backup match that is right next to the feature match. Problem is, sometimes both matches are done quickly. They also have other fake feature matches that are close to the camera that, if needed, they will pull them to the camera between matches.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Mono-blue Delver vs. Cedric's imp. painter. This aughta be good!

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[nedleeds]

"Value. Value. Grindy grindy tempo?" "Value play. Grindy. Mid Range. Value value? Tempo. Grindy. Actual." "Where you wanna be." "Value. Grip. Value play. Tempo."

I'd start a drinking game around internet jargon bullshit but we'd all die of alcohol poisoning.

Edit: Grindstone does nothing. Why fight over it?

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Lol I'm now doing that. Starting now. Really. Beer me!

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[thecrav]

"Value. Value. Grindy grindy tempo?" "Value play. Grindy. Mid Range. Value value? Tempo. Grindy. Actual." "Where you wanna be." "Value. Grip. Value play. Tempo."

I'd start a drinking game around internet jargon bullshit but we'd all die of alcohol poisoning.

Edit: Grindstone does nothing. Why fight over it?

Perfect brainstorm.

Any time a play is referred to a "correct"

skill intensive.

not knowing what happens when you destroy rest in peace - because it happens almost every weekend.

[Megadeus]

Braincestral Recall

[Purgatory]

Opaque sleeves is the tech, apparently.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Jeeeeeeeeez. That was suck.

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[useL]

Braincestral Recall

What happened?

[Megadeus]

What happened?

Thats just another term that I hate hearing them say

[Secretly.A.Bee]

BUG Delver got a gameloss for not flipping Delver back out for placer card with see-through sleeves.


Opaque sleeves is the tech, apparently.

That's what my comment was about.

Edit: Also, all this aluren-speak is getting me drunk. Thanks for the new game, nedleeds...

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[HammafistRoob]

Cabble Therapy lol

[thecrav]

brainstorm lock

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Really getting tired of the round 3 reruns. They normally at least change it up a little...

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[thecrav]

We're pushing Imperial Recruiters this week, didn't you get the news?

[UnsungHero]

Don't know how many times I heard the term "bottleneck" while watching the stream today. Good Grief!

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Don't know how many times I heard the term "bottleneck" while watching the stream today. Good Grief!

I do bit I'm ti drun km to remember how to count. This game is awesome!

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[Lt. Quattro]

That was some punt by the high tide deck.

[thecrav]

Referring to cards as "having textboxes" seems really weird. Of course D&T's creatures have text boxes, why else would I pay 1W for a Squire in legacy?

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Referring to cards as "having textboxes" seems really weird. Of course D&T's creatures have text boxes, why else would I pay 1W for a Squire in legacy?

I don't like Chapim as a talker thingy. He can be somewhat pretentious.

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[bkemke]

Chapin needs to hire a better joke writer

[thecrav]

I don't like Chapim as a talker thingy. He can be somewhat pretentious.


Chapin seems fine at "color commentary" but his analysis is lacking. This was especially clear when he and Sullivan were sharing stories, a game ended, and they had no idea why.

[rockout]

You guys complain about grindy boring matchups and then you complain when the coverage is combo vs. x or sneak vs x and the opponent loses in 10 minutes and then they have to cut back over to the decks that take longer to win i.e the esper blade match ups.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

You guys complain about grindy boring matchups and then you complain when the coverage is combo vs. x or sneak vs x and the opponent loses in 10 minutes and then they have to cut back over to the decks that take longer to win i.e the esper blade match ups.

When did that thing you just described happen?

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[thecrav]

You guys complain about grindy boring matchups and then you complain when the coverage is combo vs. x or sneak vs x and the opponent loses in 10 minutes and then they have to cut back over to the decks that take longer to win i.e the esper blade match ups.

They could pick any other long matchup as the backup match.

My primary complaint, and it seems to be common, is the lack of variety. Look at how varied the top 16 of this tournament was... then look how many of those decks we didn't see on camera a single time.

[Koby]

"Value. Value. Grindy grindy tempo?" "Value play. Grindy. Mid Range. Value value? Tempo. Grindy. Actual." "Where you wanna be." "Value. Grip. Value play. Tempo."

I'd start a drinking game around internet jargon bullshit but we'd all die of alcohol poisoning.

Edit: Grindstone does nothing. Why fight over it?

@phazonmuant: "BUG, duh. #value, #grindy, #midrange, #AdjudicateOnValue, and because I'm following the teachings of the great O'Brien school of Magic."

So, drink up Sean!

[Nocley]

They could pick any other long matchup as the backup match.

My primary complaint, and it seems to be common, is the lack of variety. Look at how varied the top 16 of this tournament was... then look how many of those decks we didn't see on camera a single time.

I would have loved to see the Sneak and Show vs DnT Quarterfinals on camera...as the Sneak and Show player...except that match was embarassing.

[Purgatory]

The third game of the finals was quite exciting magic.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Meh. I missed it. Apparently I'm going skiing tomorrow with my girlfriend and her dad so after I got fairly drunk, she got off work and made me pack. We just got to Colorado... Well, I guess I can watch the post-swiss games when they are posted on YouTube.

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[Serbitar]

"Vendilion Clique with a miracle on the stack is weird. Must be just to see if the coast is clear?"

[TheArchitect]

"Vendilion Clique with a miracle on the stack is weird. Must be just to see if the coast is clear?"

Don't worry, they pay Chapin to be a witty, condescending dick, not to provide helpful commentary.

[Serbitar]

I guess it would help if the people doing Legacy coverage were people who play Legacy on a somewhat regular basis...

[Higgs]

Yeah, I don't like listening to Chapin and his hall of famer brotherhood, old-times stories about how they crashed in a hotel room with Finkel etc. either. Might be cool for his close friend group. Not interesting at all for us. Also the witty, condescending cricism is spot on.

[nedleeds]

@phazonmuant: "BUG, duh. #value, #grindy, #midrange, #AdjudicateOnValue, and because I'm following the teachings of the great O'Brien school of Magic."

So, drink up Sean!

LOL. I'm an old man ... I fell asleep. I'll be in Seattle in a few weeks for ECCC and I'll buy a few rounds. In all seriousness congrats to Greg, he's had some shit luck at these things and got one to go this time. Giving up on Storm and embracing the magic Blue Insect Horse might have also helped. Time to reinvest winnings into m0@r pimp.

[Purgatory]

I fell asleep somewhere around 1 AM (round 7 or so), awoke my usual time for work and had breakfast while watching games 2 and 3 of the finals. Perfect timing.

The long coverage seemed to have taken its toll on especiall Chapin's voice. :)

[twndomn]

Chapin can definitely be a controversial. His humor is hit or miss. While I like some of his jokes and comments, there's the occasional cringe moment, in which I know someone in the community would take it in the wrong way. If you want to be that controversial sometimes douche figure, you gotta have the knowledge and the track record to support yourself. Not understanding the Clique vs Miracle trigger interaction can definitely tarnish his own credibility.

[Technics]

"Does Phyrexian Revoker shut down the Mana Ability of Deathrite Shaman?" "I mean you can name any card, and it does remove it's reach".


DAFUQ! What mana ability? And even if there WAS a mana ability on Deathrite, yes it still kills it...

[Megadeus]

Yep there were the usual amount of expected facepalm moments

[jandax]

It's interesting, the commentary in this thread on the SCG crew is way better than the SCG commentary on ordinary, every day Legacy.

[Tyrio]

There was a moment when both Patricks were speculating how different game 2 or 3 of the BW vs Thopter Miracles match would be if Thopter Foundry made blue tokens instead of colorless artifact tokens (against BW's SoFaI), despite the fact that there were about 10 official Thopter tokens cluttering the board that were ALL PHYSICALLY BLUE.

[Koby]

Which goes to show that:
1) Commentary is hard stuff. It's physically and mentally draining.
2) Not every commentator has grass roots knowledge of minutiae interactions.
3) The established Legacy crowd (The Source, generally) is not the prime audience for these broadcasts.

Now that said, it's pretty sad Chapin flubbed it up, considering he's played Thopter/Sword in his 5C Control deck at Pro Tour Austin 2009. Cocaine.

[JDK]

Yeah, I don't like listening to Chapin and his hall of famer brotherhood
LSV is still the best. God, I love that guy. Randy is also decent.

[Higgs]

Well I meant stories about his HoF brotherhood.. When I tuned in he was telling this story about how these guys crashed at a hotel room in Pro Tour X back in 200? and was having 10 times more fun than the listeners with his own story. Otherwise I like Buehler as well.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Wow. Round 3 on-camera is hilarious. You went deep, Gregory!

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

[thecrav]

Indeed, our cries for more variety have been answered, at least for now.

For reference later, if this guy goes long: Martyr of Frost is currently 15cents on scg

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Lol hahahaha foil Korean much? This deck won't be a thing but it's a nice change of pace.

Jesus. 22 infect points over 2 turns and only takes 4.

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[Philipp2293]

Hilarious, need to troll people with this so hard.

[Bertrand Hustle]

Indeed, our cries for more variety have been answered, at least for now.

For reference later, if this guy goes long: Martyr of Frost is currently 15cents on scg

This is probably going to spike overnight due to all of the "Speculators". Runed Halo Round 2...

[thecrav]

This is probably going to spike overnight due to all of the "Speculators". Runed Halo Round 2...

You can buy out TCG player for $22.50 plus shipping.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Here you go, Arsenal. Punishing Maverick vs a non-mainstream combo. Love it!

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[Bertrand Hustle]

You can buy out TCG player for $22.50 plus shipping.
Hey! Don't give them ideas! Although... "Them" isn't so accurate because it implies plural, where one person could easily buy out the inventory. All in jest. Even if you did buy out TCGPlayer my money is on individual resellers saying there are "inventory difficulties" and relisting it for a higher price again. Such is the life of a card hit by trends.

Here you go, Arsenal. Punishing Maverick vs a non-mainstream combo. Love it!

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

Yeah, it's a relief when they aren't just showing cards/decks they are trying to push inventory with. I need to start keeping track of when decks are streamed and how much SCG prices stuff up in response over time. It'd be fun to have empirical evidence for. Streaming is a pretty good way to get randoms/speculators to buy things, even if they aren't necessarily a good/lasting trend.

[nedleeds]

Moron on moron crime. One dude takes 2 from Gaddock Teeg when he has Karakas. Moron passes to moron. Moron GSZs with his own Teeg out.

Edit: at least right guy had Clique.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Jesus. That was foolish.

Hope Koby gets on camera with Tin Fins.

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[thecrav]

Moron on moron crime. One dude takes 2 from Gaddock Teeg when he has Karakas. Moron passes to moron. Moron GSZs with his own Teeg out.

You forgot: Neither Moron notices the GRV

[workingdude]

Moron on moron crime. One dude takes 2 from Gaddock Teeg when he has Karakas. Moron passes to moron. Moron GSZs with his own Teeg out.

Did you turn off the feed after you saw that or something? Because the food chain player need to tap Karakas for mana for the EOT Clique to feed food chain for the next turn win.

[mrjumbo03]

Moron on moron crime. One dude takes 2 from Gaddock Teeg when he has Karakas. Moron passes to moron. Moron GSZs with his own Teeg out.

Job was correct in not bouncing because Clique into Food Chain was his only out.

Delang should've swords'ed in response to the Clique trigger though.

Edit: Ninja'd

[nedleeds]

Did you turn off the feed after you saw that or something? Because the food chain player need to tap Karakas for mana for the EOT Clique to feed food chain for the next turn win.

I started turning the feed off after the retarded commentator suggested that the g/w player not get a land from his fetch after the submerge implying that it would somehow leave his spirit on top of his library.

[thecrav]

3 matches so far and we've seen 6 decks? Yay! Variety!

[Phelix]

at least the players are as horrible as the commentators.


player A tries to resolve a cascaded Liliana, with 0 mana up- past Thalia.

EOT his opponent tries to Karakas a Jitte.


GGs.

[thecrav]

3 matches so far and we've seen 6 decks? Yay! Variety!

4/8 :D

Also, Koby on camera, so that's kinda neat.

[jandax]

@terribad players/commentators:^^For real?

Not even watching the coverage or anything, but I have always wondered, wouldn't the average Sourcer cash an SCG on any given Sunday? It seems that way.

[ThoSha]

Dat Surgicals.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

What is Koby playing?

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

[thecrav]

What is Koby playing?


UR Delver with Surgical to punch people in the face with

[KrzyMoose]

That Misthollow Griffin beatdown...

[Megadeus]

This dumb deck forced my hand. Bought 4 Food Chain, 4 Griffin, and 4 Manipulate fate. I don't feel good about it.

[Phelix]

i own this deck already.

its the swedish concoction.

[bkemke]

Unlike previous weekends, coverage this weekend was awesome. I thought Patrick and Cedric did a great job plus it was awesome to see how Patrick was rooting for Jacob Kory as well.

[Purgatory]

Unlike previous weekends, coverage this weekend was awesome. I thought Patrick and Cedric did a great job plus it was awesome to see how Patrick was rooting for Jacob Kory as well.

+1. I thoroughly enjoyed especially the early rounds of the coverage.

[Koby]

Oh god, that was a game winning Ponder... for my opponent.

[KIP_NZ]

Oh god, that was a game winning Ponder... for my opponent.

I was expecting this post in the Epic Punt's thread :)

[Koby]

I was expecting this post in the Epic Punt's thread :)

I would think that this is just a run of the mill punt. An Epic punt would be relatd to some of my old Doomsday piles on stream...

[Technics]

Not even watching the coverage or anything, but I have always wondered, wouldn't the average Sourcer cash an SCG on any given Sunday? It seems that way.

Yes they would, and most of them do. The one's that don't usually are playing a brew, or are playing something that gets hated out. However remember there are also a lot of good players NOT on the source, who also perform well, which is why you don't see an all source top 8. However usually everyone I know from the source ends with at least a positive record, if not in top 64.

[Michael Keller]

Some of these decks just Plinko their way into Top Eight anyhow. Sometimes you get a gem of a deck finishing well, but when you sit there and watch the same putrid Delver/StoneBlade variants on camera, that bias cheats people climbing the standings with at least somewhat original lists.

And the commentary in general is just half-assed anyhow, especially with Legacy.

[Barook]

Remember that we're getting Coverage today, too, due to the Invitational.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

When do the legacy rounds start? I really like the bug list that won the last event. No goyf was brilliant and really ballsy.

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[Nocley]

4 Rounds of Legacy earlier today already done, then 4 rounds starting at 9:15 am Eastern Time, with a top 8 of Legacy Sunday.

[thecrav]

I liked it when Riki Hiyashi used to comment because we wouldn't have a two minute conversation regarding how trinisphere may or may not work.

[Megadeus]

Ugh... I dont understand how these guys don't know how the cards work when they do this every week.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

"With all the UW Miracles around, MUD may actually be well-positioned in the current meta game."

No kidding? That's only historical fucking fact. Remember Landstill vs. Dragon Stompy circa 2007? Jesus.

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[Megadeus]

Anyone else just see Sam Black steal a win from under the Nic Fit Players nose by attacking with a summoning sick elf?

[Barook]

Anyone else just see Sam Black steal a win from under the Nic Fit Players nose by attacking with a summoning sick elf?
Yes.

But to be fair, it was stupid to blow up the Deed right before Sam started to go off. The Nic Fit player threw the game away at that point.

[Megadeus]

Yes.

But to be fair, it was stupid to blow up the Deed right before Sam started to go off. The Nic Fit player threw the game away at that point.

I'm not saying it was a good play, but to watch a "pro" mise a win like that was fairly disgusting. Watching him do the math. Check the amount of cards in his deck, count his creatures on board and do all of this multiple times then ask his opponent that question when a seasoned player like himself obviously knew he didn;t have a man on board that could attack was fucking disgusting. All respect lost for him imo. Honestly, the table judges also should be held accountable for allowing that. WHat the hell are they even there for?

[ESG]

That was either the sloppiest Elves game or the sketchiest Elves game. Sam couldn't win that turn via Craterhoof due to having two Green Sun's Zeniths hit with Cabal Therapy earlier; thus, he couldn't recycle the cards lost when he cast a creature and would draw three from Glimpses. That made it so he would have to win that turn, but he couldn't play enough creatures to deal lethal. He thought about it for ages, and then he asked and about a summoning sick creature, and then sent that in with Hoof.

When playing Elves, it's important to indicate which creatures are sick and which aren't, as well as which lands have been used. When you're taking a 10-minute turn and putting 18 permanents on the field and activating and/or triggering a bunch of abilities, there's a high potential for abuse. I would have liked to have seen Sam make things clearer in Game 2, but he continued with the messy/unclear board. We can't hear what was said at the table, but if I had been his opponent, I would have been lobbying him to make things clearer or use markers.

Edit: He may have been able to play differently and use Quirion Ranger or Wirewood Symbiote to untap Deathrite Shaman on his opponent's turn and eat a creature he would have discarded. He had Birchlore Rangers out, so he would have been able to make mana. That way he would have survived the Baneslayer hit and been able to make a lethal Hoof. But maybe he feared another Deed. In any case, I disliked Sam's play that game and found it, at best, unacceptably messy.

[LLCoolDave]

I'm not saying it was a good play, but to watch a "pro" mise a win like that was fairly disgusting. Watching him do the math. Check the amount of cards in his deck, count his creatures on board and do all of this multiple times then ask his opponent that question when a seasoned player like himself obviously knew he didn;t have a man on board that could attack was fucking disgusting. All respect lost for him imo. Honestly, the table judges also should be held accountable for allowing that. WHat the hell are they even there for?

Yeah. It's one thing if he comboed through his deck, finished on Craterhoof and then tried to attack with the Visionary, as there's a chance it could be a honest mistake. The way he counted out his creatures multiple times, and just the way he sequenced his plays at the end strongly suggest to me that he was aware of not having a creature that can attack, otherwise, he had more than lethal with just casting the Craterhoof when he was down to 5 cards in library. That's what feels so sketchy to me. Desperately trying to squeeze more creatures on the board just doesn't make sense when you can already swing for 40.

[Megadeus]

Yeah. It's one thing if he comboed through his deck, finished on Craterhoof and then tried to attack with the Visionary, as there's a chance it could be a honest mistake. The way he counted out his creatures multiple times, and just the way he sequenced his plays at the end strongly suggest to me that he was aware of not having a creature that can attack, otherwise, he had more than lethal with just casting the Craterhoof when he was down to 5 cards in library. That's what feels so sketchy to me. Desperately trying to squeeze more creatures on the board just doesn't make sense when you can already swing for 40.

This essentially. Apparently he tweeted about it: Sam Black @SamuelHBlack

"My opponent and I lost track of the game and remembered the time he deeded all but my visionary. He said it wasn't sick and I trusted him."

[ESG]

His opponent and the table judge and the spotter should have been paying more attention, so that play should not have been permitted to occur, but it happened and we can't go back in time. I expect a pro like Sam to keep the board state clean so that a play like that is less likely to occur. I encourage anyone to go back and watch that game. As I said, Sam's actions were, at best, unacceptably messy.

[Barook]

His opponent and the table judge and the spotter should have been paying more attention, so that play should not have been permitted to occur, but it happened and we can't go back in time. I expect a pro like Sam to keep the board state clean so that a play like that is less likely to occur. I encourage anyone to go back and watch that game. As I said, Sam's actions were, at best, unacceptably messy.
Was there even a table judge? And if so, why the hell didn't he do his job?

[Megadeus]

Was there even a table judge? And if so, why the hell didn't he do his job?

Yes there was. And I have no idea. They seem to miss a lot.

[workingdude]

I'm not saying it was a good play, but to watch a "pro" mise a win like that was fairly disgusting. Watching him do the math. Check the amount of cards in his deck, count his creatures on board and do all of this multiple times then ask his opponent that question when a seasoned player like himself obviously knew he didn;t have a man on board that could attack was fucking disgusting. All respect lost for him imo. Honestly, the table judges also should be held accountable for allowing that. WHat the hell are they even there for?

I completely agree. There is absolutely no way he plays like that, burning 10 extra minutes off the clock, to try to get to 5+23 damage on a craterhoof. He topped off around 16, and then selective memory kicked in on whether he had creatures on board. Had he attacked when he had 5+13 and 1+13 without looking so beaten, then I could believe it was an honest mistake. Taking an extra 10 minutes to try to find a win, when most of the times it would leave him no time to finish game 2, makes it obvious that he knew he had to get to +23 off craterhoof.

Also agree with the losing respect for him. I usually root for him, especially when he ran wacky decks like zombardment, but this was desperate.

How do SCG live commentators, who noticed this immediately, not have a live communication line with the table judges? This has happened so many times that people have to send messages on a computer to the table judge to notify them to stop play.

[Tammit67]

Was there even a table judge? And if so, why the hell didn't he do his job?

Table judges are NOT there to judge the game. They are there to be there should the players need direction. The onus is still on the players to make sure things are handled correctly.

If the opposite were true, then every mistake under camera is the judges fault. That's a terrible precedent to set

[Megadeus]

Table judges are NOT there to judge the game. They are there to be there should the players need direction. The onus is still on the players to make sure things are handled correctly.

If the opposite were true, then every mistake under camera is the judges fault. That's a terrible precedent to set

I see what you are saying, but I have certainly seen judges point things out before, and something like this isn't a missed trigger or anything.

[cdr]

I dunno how SCG runs things now, haven't worked something for them in awhile. But when I did, the judge at the table was pretty much doing coverage (updating life totals and etc) and had very little opportunity to actually pay attention to what was happening in the match. Doing features is usually the worst part of judging, and even more so at SCGs, because you do almost no judging.

Maybe the commentators are better now, but IME commentators are wrong 9/10 times when they think something's wrong at the table. Having a direct line of communication would be a mess. The guy running the video off-camera has a radio to the judge at the table though.

[Megadeus]

Thats fair. I mean I could see missing things at that point. I didnt realize. Still. That doesnt excuse Sam from that play. That was fucked up to do right there.

[Lemnear]

It's not that attacking with summoning sick creatures is new to Elves at all. That is possibly one of the more common mistakes made.

Tip: split creatures able to attack and summoning sick ones left and right on your playmat and Mark creatures which's abilities you have used with a dice or such. Everything else is doomed once you combo with Glimpse.

[Lt. Quattro]

So is this the pro play? You apparently have nothing to losing by going for it.

[Megadeus]

It's not that attacking with summoning sick creatures is new to Elves at all. That is possibly one of the more common mistakes made.

Tip: split creatures able to attack and summoning sick ones left and right on your playmat and Mark creatures which's abilities you have used with a dice or such. Everything else is doomed once you combo with Glimpse.

I'm sure it happens. I know Julian accidentaly did it in BoM.

But actually witnessing how the whole turn went down and everything, it is almost impossible for him to not have known. Especially considering when he started his glimpse chain he literally had 0 creatures on board.

At that point you HAVE to know the only man that can attack that turn is Hoof. There was no, some men are sick, and some aren't. Literally every creature on his board was sick.

[Lord Seth]

I hate to be one for any kind of gossip, but as people are discussing Sam Black... anyone know if something odd was going on with Sam Black at the tournament? I was at the tournament, and (I'm told by other people who were there) he apparently claimed that he would quit if he didn't end up in the money for this tournament. I also know that there was some kind of a dispute between him and a judge several rounds into the tournament, but I don't really know any details of it.

[Lemnear]

I hate to be one for any kind of gossip, but as people are discussing Sam Black... anyone know if something odd was going on with Sam Black at the tournament? I was at the tournament, and (I'm told by other people who were there) he apparently claimed that he would quit if he didn't end up in the money for this tournament. I also know that there was some kind of a dispute between him and a judge several rounds into the tournament, but I don't really know any details of it.

Problems of a Pro Player in a game whichs price payouts are not enough to make a living, getting sponsors is tough and the only reliable wage is by being payed for articles after gaining some initial Fame. If this story is true at all it sounds like a childish overreaction to the beforementioned


I'm sure it happens. I know Julian accidentaly did it in BoM.

But actually witnessing how the whole turn went down and everything, it is almost impossible for him to not have known. Especially considering when he started his glimpse chain he literally had 0 creatures on board.

At that point you HAVE to know the only man that can attack that turn is Hoof. There was no, some men are sick, and some aren't. Literally every creature on his board was sick.

I just read a bit on Twitter about Owen's and Sam's issues with the deck. Making gross mistakes and punts through the day, fucked up sequencing of spells, attacking with summoning sick creatures, using Q.Ranger/Symbiote several times per turn, etc. all due to not marking used effects or summoning sick creatures with dices, Stones or seperating those on the playmat. I don't know if they were simply unprepared to play that deck or it is for squeezing out some extra value unnoticed. Elves offer the most potential for cheating in Legacy after all :/

[twndomn]

I hate to be one for any kind of gossip, but as people are discussing Sam Black... anyone know if something odd was going on with Sam Black at the tournament? I was at the tournament, and (I'm told by other people who were there) he apparently claimed that he would quit if he didn't end up in the money for this tournament. I also know that there was some kind of a dispute between him and a judge several rounds into the tournament, but I don't really know any details of it.

Sam on Elves, James on Nic-fit
Sam's the active player, he had Visionary in play. James had Pernicious Deed in play.
Sam played first Glimpse.
James activated Deed in response, no creatures on Sam's table.
Sam tried to combo off, 20 minutes later, he would need to produce a 27/27 haste Crater to win the game.
Sam asked James if his new Visionary he casted this turn was the Visionary he had at the beginning of that turn. James agreed.
Sam then played Crater, indicating he had 2 huge creatures he could attack this turn, James just conceded.

Commentators were pointing out that's incorrect, but the players have already scooped up their cards.

[shopshopshop]

I recall when Owen was on camera with Elves that he was putting dice on used Rangers/Symbiotes, but possible it was only the camera match.

[Arsenal]

I played Owen round 1and he flipped his Symbiote upside down to indicate it's ability had been used that turn.

[Phelix]

I played Owen round 1and he flipped his Symbiote upside down to indicate it's ability had been used that turn.


i had an opponent grab my cards to flip them in this way, when i played elves at BoM.... pretty rude imo.

The trick is fine, but if i can get my opponent to completly fail, then ill take that edge. If he asks if its used or not, Ill answer correctly of course. he is also welcome to take written notes or whatever. But dont grab my cards, really.

[Lord Seth]

Sam on Elves, James on Nic-fit
Sam's the active player, he had Visionary in play. James had Pernicious Deed in play.
Sam played first Glimpse.
James activated Deed in response, no creatures on Sam's table.
Sam tried to combo off, 20 minutes later, he would need to produce a 27/27 haste Crater to win the game.
Sam asked James if his new Visionary he casted this turn was the Visionary he had at the beginning of that turn. James agreed.
Sam then played Crater, indicating he had 2 huge creatures he could attack this turn, James just conceded.

Commentators were pointing out that's incorrect, but the players have already scooped up their cards.
That was in round 8, though. I'm pretty certain that the dispute he had with a judge I mentioned was from earlier in the tournament.

[Koby]

i had an opponent grab my cards to flip them in this way, when i played elves at BoM.... pretty rude imo.


That is more or less my experience at BoM in general, minus playing an Elf deck.

[Darkenslight]

I played Owen round 1and he flipped his Symbiote upside down to indicate it's ability had been used that turn.

Which actually makes sense on 'once per turn' abilities - it's a clear indicator that the ability has been used.

Having actually watched the match, SAm should have been hit with a 2.5 GRV and James with a 2.6 GSV (GRV is game-rule violation and GSV is failure to maintain game state).

[Phelix]

If it helps you keep track of your own abilties, by all Means do it, but as a favour to your opponent, I wouldnt. Just like i dont but dice on my goyf to indicate size. If my opponent miscounts/fails/falls asleep, so be it.

[Technics]

It's not that attacking with summoning sick creatures is new to Elves at all. That is possibly one of the more common mistakes made.

Tip: split creatures able to attack and summoning sick ones left and right on your playmat and Mark creatures which's abilities you have used with a dice or such. Everything else is doomed once you combo with Glimpse.

Watched him do this split and then put newly cast dudes in the unsick pile. I'm just going with Black is either a cheater, or a sloppy player. And since he tends to finish well, I'll be watching him close if I ever play against him...

[Barook]

Kinda funny I lost all respect for Sam Black within 7 days. First the hilarious Brainstorm missplay last week, now this.

I kinda dislike how such issues are put aside by some Twitter statement akin "Whoopsie, I totally made a mistake there!".

While that can be true, it can also be easily used to cover for malicious intents.

[Technics]

Kinda funny I lost all respect for Sam Black within 7 days. First the hilarious Brainstorm missplay last week, now this.

I kinda dislike how such issues are put aside by some Twitter statement akin "Whoopsie, I totally made a mistake there!".

While that can be true, it can also be easily used to cover for malicious intents.

Exactly. If he has made 3 misplays ON CAMERA in all of 2 games in the last week... I mean this guy is a professional magic player. This is what he does. The "oh this deck is hard" excuse is bullshit. I play Dredge, and can manage to keep everything in order, not draw (dredge) extra cards, remember who is summon sick, etc. I know people who can play DDFT, or Elves without GPV's no problem. The fact a "pro" makes more GPE's in the last week than I have in 6 months all of them on camera, just makes me wonder what happens when he's not under the lights.

I hate to go out and label someone a cheater, but this just boggles my mind someone who play magic 24/7 can make more errors than my buddy who has never set foot in a game outside the kitchen table.

[Technics]

Isn't this like his second tournament with the deck? Maybe you don't make mistakes because you play the deck all the time. Surely there is a much larger margin for error (and possibly forgivable) when you aren't experienced with the deck.

Sam is likely gonna write about this, I would wait for that...judging actions made on camera from your computer screen and saying you won't ever make that kind of mistake is really presumptuous. How many times have you been on camera?

If this were his first time on camera, sure that could be an excuse. Except he is on camera literally 2-3 times (as a backup match, or a feature) EVERY SINGLE SCG event. At this point it's like saying to the weekly FNM guy. "How many times have you played against a real opponent? I mean it's not like playing online, things are different". The dude plays on camera more than I even play magic.

[lordofthepit]

I think there's a decent chance he cheated (i.e. he knew that the Visionary was sick), and if you put a gun to my head, that's my best guess as to what happened.


@twiz718 I didn't think that. When I thought I couldn't win, I confirmed w/opponent that all my guys were sick. He said not visionary.


When my opponent said something that was different than I'd thought, I should have confirmed further-believed him b/c I wanted it to be :/

However, I think that the explanation he offered on Twitter is a very reasonable account of what happened. The two of them just went through a really long, convoluted turn which began with a single Elvish Visionary. I watched the entire match, and I didn't think Sam was actually "fishing" for a mistake from his opponent with respect to remembering the board state. It does look like he asked a question (presumably "are all my guys sick?") and his opponent responds by pointing at the Visionary, indicating that it wasn't sick. This is in contrast to simply attacking with the Visionary as though it weren't sick.

Even though he initially thought that the Visionary was sick (this is very clear), he either used his opponent's faulty memory to illegally take advantage of the situation (which is scumbag move) or he came to believe that his opponent was correct based on how confidently he pointed at the Visionary to confirm that it was not sick (which is at least defensible), believing what he wanted to be true. If it's the latter case, I don't think it's reprehensible; it's just normal psychology. If you were still in high school, and you thought that you had homework (but weren't sure), you might call a friend up to confirm whether you had any homework. If your friend tells you that you have no homework, you are likely to take his word at face value--perhaps even if he's a bit flaky--because you simply want it to be true.

I have my doubts to whether that was actually what occurred in Sam Black's situation, because I really hope it is the case. I would be very disappointed with the state of a game in which high-profile pros would be willing to cheat on camera for relatively low stakes. I'm going to wait to see a full explanation from Sam's perspective.

On a different note, people shouldn't point to examples of Sam Black punting on camera in the past as evidence to support the accusation that he cheated. The Brainstorm punt was a play mistake that cost him the match. If anything, it supports the notion that pro players aren't infalliable robots who always have a perfect sense of the game and board state and that any mistake is a deliberate misrepresentation intended to illegally benefit them.

[workingdude]

I also have to think that Sam would remember he had no creatures because the Pernicious Deed was such a bad play. It sticks in my mind as a, "wow my opponent doesnt know what he's doing." Did anyone who watched that, who actually knows what is going on, forget that?

Opponent clearly forgot it because he thought it was the right play against elves and didnt know what he was doing. When you don't know what you are doing, it's easy to forget you did something. Anyone who was watching the match and had ANY familiarity with elves, was facepalming and I don't think Sam would forget that after mentally fist-pumping during that deed activation.

[Darkenslight]

I also have to think that Sam would remember he had no creatures because the Pernicious Deed was such a bad play. It sticks in my mind as a, "wow my opponent doesnt know what he's doing." Did anyone who watched that, who actually knows what is going on, forget that?

Opponent clearly forgot it because he thought it was the right play against elves and didnt know what he was doing. When you don't know what you are doing, it's easy to forget you did something. Anyone who was watching the match and had ANY familiarity with elves, was facepalming and I don't think Sam would forget that after mentally fist-pumping during that deed activation.

That was definitely a misplay by James. I would have waited until he fetches the Craterhoof, then popped for 3 in response to the trigger. Boom - instant win.

[twndomn]

Kinda funny I lost all respect for Sam Black within 7 days. First the hilarious Brainstorm missplay last week, now this.

I kinda dislike how such issues are put aside by some Twitter statement akin "Whoopsie, I totally made a mistake there!".

While that can be true, it can also be easily used to cover for malicious intents.

And now Sam will write about his atrocity such that SCG and he will profit off his atrocity, surely suckers will increase SCG's traffic because they're dying to know.

[ESG]

Well, let's be real: A handful of curious people isn't going to register a perceptible change in site traffic.

[jbone2016]

That was definitely a misplay by James. I would have waited until he fetches the Craterhoof, then popped for 3 in response to the trigger. Boom - instant win.

Yep. I would agree with you. I regretted about 2 minutes after I did it. Tilted as I was, I totally forgot about the board state. Sully was right, I should have been attacking with my other creatures as well. I had a rector and another deed in my hand at end. I hadn't played with the deck in a while, so I was a little rusty as well.

[Michael Keller]

Well, let's be real: A handful of curious people isn't going to register a perceptible change in site traffic.

Just the thought of it is absolutely ridiculous. We have to pay money to read the kid's side of the story.

I honestly could care less. My perception on the idea of a "professional" Magic player is well-documented, as it sounds ludicrous. So must be his trustworthiness in competitive Legacy.

[Quasim0ff]

What would happen if I decided to C/P Sam's article here, or just what's relevant?

Mods?

[Anen]

What would happen if I decided to C/P Sam's article here, or just what's relevant?

Mods?

Pretty sure premium articles are under some sort of copyright until released as free articles.

[Technics]

Pretty sure premium articles are under some sort of copyright until released as free articles.

Everything is under copyright, even when it's released as free. However you are not allowed to post articles from premium content to other places (aka here). I doubt an exception will be made. You can however summarize in your own words.

[Technics]

Everything is under copyright, even when it's released as free. However you are not allowed to post articles from premium content to other places (aka here). I doubt an exception will be made. You can however summarize in your own words.

Edit:

http://www.starcitygames.com/article/28248_Scandal.html


Summary of the whole thing at the end:

"And that in around 2000 words is what I believe happened. To those of you who lost respect for me over this, I respect that. I think it's important to be vigilant against cheaters in Magic, and I think what I did in that game looked horrible. I apologize for putting you in a position to doubt me. I know that respecting me less as a person makes it harder to trust me even when I'm just giving advice about a format and makes me less valuable to you."

[Bertrand Hustle]

Edit:

http://www.starcitygames.com/article/28248_Scandal.html


Summary of the whole thing at the end:

"And that in around 2000 words is what I believe happened. To those of you who lost respect for me over this, I respect that. I think it's important to be vigilant against cheaters in Magic, and I think what I did in that game looked horrible. I apologize for putting you in a position to doubt me. I know that respecting me less as a person makes it harder to trust me even when I'm just giving advice about a format and makes me less valuable to you."

Very cute reverse psychology and damage control. Interesting how SCG let him handle this given the lack of damage control with Bertoncini (there was a lack of plausible deniability there though). I think I found a new sig.

[shrubs]

Having read the article, it doesn't prove anything. Objectively, there is no evidence that he did not cheat. All he has to stand on is his character, and I'm sure no one has ever tried that in court. It reads as a really desperate plea, although he might have been going for a "genuinely concerned" tone. Anyone could and would say what he did if they thought it could get them out of being caught red-handed.

"I swear I didn't cheat guys! Please believe me! I'm a good guy. You believe me right, guys? Guys?"

Watching the match, his actions, given a player of his level, do seem fishy or typical of (poor) cheaters. He should have known that he couldn't win, asking a question in order to confirm his goals, why did he dick around for so long, shaky hands, etc.

I recommend checking out the comments on the article. If you can get past the Sam Black cock-sucking fest, there are some solid critical arguments hidden in there that sum up what I'm getting at a lot better.

If you cheat and get caught, be a man (or woman) and admit it. It's only a fucking game.

[workingdude]

No one is complaining about the play about this tourney today?

I've been watching the stream and have seen 3 matches (both replays/live matches)
UWR miracles vs melira pod
Dredge vs Esper Deathblade
SneakShow vs Reanimator

And have just been blown away by some of the lines of play/punts people have been taking.

[Arsenal]

SCG Opens are essentially a 300+ player FNM.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Real people have things to do today. Also, it's Easter.

Bobby colegrove could have won that insane turn.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

[Megadeus]

No one is complaining about the play about this tourney today?

I've been watching the stream and have seen 3 matches (both replays/live matches)
UWR miracles vs melira pod
Dredge vs Esper Deathblade
SneakShow vs Reanimator

And have just been blown away by some of the lines of play/punts people have been taking.

SCG Opens are full of mediocre players. No Surprise there.

[thecrav]

"Daddy's home. He's been drinking and he's angry" - Patrick Chapin, regarding a turn 1 Nimble Mongoose.

[Arsenal]

That Maverick and RUG match was great. Good ol' fashioned fair Magic.

[Barook]

Those were two fantastic (and well-played) games of Magic. Dancing on the razor's edge.

[Anen]

Those were two fantastic (and well-played) games of Magic. Dancing on the razor's edge.

I want Maverick to take this Open so bad. The quaterfinal was awesome :)

[Michael Keller]

SCG Opens are essentially a 300+ player FNM.

Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes!

[Barook]

I want Maverick to take this Open so bad. The quaterfinal was awesome :)
Herzog lost in the semifinals, but even then, Maverick has a terrible match-up against Shardless BUG.

[Megadeus]

"Daddy's home. He's been drinking and he's angry" - Patrick Chapin, regarding a turn 1 Nimble Mongoose.

WUT. Is Chapin just like really high?

[bakofried]

Hey, at least now I'll stop having folks who play standard exclusively telling me Maverick is dead. >< Going down in the semis is still a great performance, I really like how he handled the black splash.

[big_ticket]

where can i watch the link of the coverage?

[Tyrio]

where can i watch the link of the coverage?

Probably just the standard twitch.tv/scglive archive.

[rarehunter]

For those interested the coverage is now archived on youtube. Chapin does add a weird dynamic for Legacy. Kinda hit and miss too. Osyp and CeddyP should jsut cover all the opens though.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

I disagree. I prefer Mathias to Osyp.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

[rarehunter]

Mathias provides good commentary but I hate hearing his voice, reminds me too much of Adrian Sullivan.

[Megadeus]

Good match between painter and DnT on right now. Pretty swingy and exciting. Phyrexian Revoker is such an insane card.

[Myelectronicdays]

Good match between painter and DnT on right now. Pretty swingy and exciting. Phyrexian Revoker is such an insane card.

yeah that was a sick match

[Purgatory]

yeah that was a sick match

+1. Third game was kinda unexciting, but the second game was insane.

[Megadeus]

Yeah I dont know how he pulled G2 out... I KNEW he was dead, and then I was wrong. Damn. Actually more exciting than BoM imo.

[Bertrand Hustle]

Good match between painter and DnT on right now. Pretty swingy and exciting. Phyrexian Revoker is such an insane card.

That was an incredible game, 1 life wonder.

[thecrav]

TIL: Death and Taxes is apparently "a derivative of Maverick"

[Secretly.A.Bee]

God, Genzman needs to clean it up. His choices are dick.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Wow. Jessie, my man... Wait for the priority pass. Jesus.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

[Meekrab]

Before this match Sullivan said Black Vise could be safely unbanned because fair decks don't really care about it. 0_o

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Yeah, I heard. I don't know what they are thinking today. Any of them. I feel like Yim should have mulliganed game 2.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

[Darkenslight]

Before this match Sullivan said Black Vise could be safely unbanned because fair decks don't really care about it. 0_o

There must be something in the water, as the Standard top 4 was done in an hour this morning. But yes, the commentary has been affected by the early breakfast.

[nedleeds]

Cedric: blah blah where you want to be blah value value. Ha Belcher! blah value.

Players: Brainstorm. Delver. Delver. Brainstorm. Delver. Bolt a Goblin guide while you have a Brainstorm and lands to draw in hand.

Sullivan: Value value value. Blah. Value. Where you want to be. Mountain. Blah. Fireblast. I PLAY BURN! DO YOU GUYS GET IT YET I LIKE TO LAVA SPIKE PEOPLE. AFTER PROBING THEM! GET IT? MOUNTAIN MOUNTAIN MOUNTAIN. I BOLT PEOPLE. GET IT?

[JPoJohnson]

Cedric: blah blah where you want to be blah value value. Ha Belcher! blah value.

Players: Brainstorm. Delver. Delver. Brainstorm. Delver. Bolt a Goblin guide while you have a Brainstorm and lands to draw in hand.

Sullivan: Value value value. Blah. Value. Where you want to be. Mountain. Blah. Fireblast. I PLAY BURN! DO YOU GUYS GET IT YET I LIKE TO LAVA SPIKE PEOPLE. AFTER PROBING THEM! GET IT? MOUNTAIN MOUNTAIN MOUNTAIN. I BOLT PEOPLE. GET IT?

Sounds like I'm missing high quality entertainment

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Nothing doing. Maybe round 5 will show a tad more skill-intensive decision trees.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

[nedleeds]

This guy running DnT into the ground, who thinks his Port is Blasted Landscape is the one who tried to Wasteland my Forest a few months back at the Atlanta Open.

[H]

This guy running DnT into the ground, who thinks his Port is Blasted Landscape is the one who tried to Wasteland my Forest a few months back at the Atlanta Open.

Pretty sure they said this guy only has 1 Flickerwisp in his deck too, so, you know I'm not really surprised.

[mrjumbo03]

Really beautiful DnT deck, but terrible list. Who maindecks 2 Aegis of Gods in DNT?

DnT pilots everywhere have got to be collectively shaking their heads with his play.

[thecrav]

Sullivan: Value value value. Blah. Value. Where you want to be. Mountain. Blah. Fireblast. I PLAY BURN! DO YOU GUYS GET IT YET I LIKE TO LAVA SPIKE PEOPLE. AFTER PROBING THEM! GET IT? MOUNTAIN MOUNTAIN MOUNTAIN. I BOLT PEOPLE. GET IT?

I read this and tune in to immediately see a U/R Delver player resolving Gitaxian Probe

[Darkenslight]

Merfolk with Chalice?

Made me chuckle.

[nedleeds]

Bet those fucking Smelts in your board are looking pretty shitty right now. #ChaliceOfFuckYourDelver

[nedleeds]

Really beautiful DnT deck, but terrible list. Who maindecks 2 Aegis of Gods in DNT?

DnT pilots everywhere have got to be collectively shaking their heads with his play.

It's pretty much all uphill from "Wasteland your Forest" ...

[Darkenslight]

...Did Aiken intentionally miss his Chalice trigger? The sequencing was Chalice at 1, Dismember, Cosi's.

[Lt. Quattro]

...Did Aiken intentionally miss his Chalice trigger? The sequencing was Chalice at 1, Dismember, Cosi's.

Dismember has a converted mana cost of 3 and the trickster is uncounterable if using cavern of souls.

[Bertrand Hustle]

Can someone make an SCGLive bingo?

Should include:
TNN on stream (bonus strike for each multiple)
"Grip"
Delver flips
DnT featured at least twice
Quarterfinals features a deck that is being pushed instead of a rogue deck on the other side of the brackets
Someone misses an Elves trigger
Mirror match between a DtB
Someone Brainstorms right off the bat
Chapin talking about sometime before 2001
Combination of players and judges not knowing what a card does
Someone cheats

[Barook]

Can someone make an SCGLive bingo?

Should include:
TNN on stream (bonus strike for each multiple)
"Grip"
Delver flips
DnT featured at least twice
Quarterfinals features a deck that is being pushed instead of a rogue deck on the other side of the brackets
Someone misses an Elves trigger
Mirror match between a DtB
Someone Brainstorms right off the bat
Chapin talking about sometime before 2001
Combination of players and judges not knowing what a card does
Someone cheats

Add "value" as the free spot.

[Bertrand Hustle]

Add "value" as the free spot.

Either that or "grip", unsure. They actually shouldn't be on the same axis to make things fair. Free space should be "commercial plays in first 10 mins"

[Barook]

Either that or "grip", unsure. They actually shouldn't be on the same axis to make things fair. Free space should be "commercial plays in first 10 mins"
I've never noticed "grip" so far. Grip, as in, hand?

Also:
- commentators guessing the contents of a hand, despite it having been clearly visible multiple times on stream

[JPoJohnson]

I've never noticed "grip" so far. Grip, as in, hand?

Also:
- commentators guessing the contents of a hand, despite it having been clearly visible multiple times on stream

And guessing wrong.

Or thinking a card is a different one after seeing the picture.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

God, please make Patrick Sullivan shut the hell up about Lava Spike.

Love,

Secretly.A.Bee

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

[mini1337s]

http://i.imgur.com/KQ54qvU.png
Interesting take on Miracles.

[thecrav]

http://i.imgur.com/KQ54qvU.png
Interesting take on Miracles.

Miracles OP

[Bertrand Hustle]

The next level of deck thinning is here.

[Barook]

Koby is currently on the Stream playing Maverick - sadly, against Elves.

[nedleeds]

Lol. Bragging on elves mans guru forest and foil drs .... elf guy fetches a revised bayou ....

[sdematt]

Koby Top 16's SCG with a list that he and I brewed over Scotch last Monday. Seems good, bro. Because why NOT Maverick? #screwdahaters

Congrats, Koby.

-Matt

[Bertrand Hustle]

Lol. Bragging on elves mans guru forest and foil drs .... elf guy fetches a revised bayou ....
THIS in the Natural Order deck on the other hand is an impressive white bordered card!

http://i.imgur.com/Mfx1g95.png

[nedleeds]

That is a spicy bayou.

[big_ticket]

THIS in the Natural Order deck on the other hand is an impressive white bordered card!

http://i.imgur.com/Mfx1g95.png

sick bayou :g:

[sdematt]

sick bayou :g:

#Handcut

-Matt

[nedleeds]

Derp delver.

[ESG]

Top 8 profile from Alex Bertoncini:

Do you think any cards from Conspiracy will have Legacy implications?
I'm the best conspiracy.

Nothing like a villain who loves to play the villain.

[mort-]

Top 8 profile from Alex Bertoncini:

Do you think any cards from Conspiracy will have Legacy implications?
I'm the best conspiracy.

Nothing like a villain who loves to play the villain.

Not knowing him personaly, he seems like a real idiot instead of a villain.

[Julian23]

Not knowing him personaly, he seems like a real idiot instead of a villain.

This is all I could think of when I read his answer:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/27/The_Offspring-Conspiracy_of_One.jpg/220px-The_Offspring-Conspiracy_of_One.jpg

[mort-]

This is all I could think of when I read his answer:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/27/The_Offspring-Conspiracy_of_One.jpg/220px-The_Offspring-Conspiracy_of_One.jpg

I don't get it.
Good album though :D

[Kayradis]

I don't know why we keep enduring such a pain in the ass.

[Tormod]

This is all I could think of when I read his answer:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/27/The_Offspring-Conspiracy_of_One.jpg/220px-The_Offspring-Conspiracy_of_One.jpg

Looks like the mana symbol for the alt "Badlands"

[Julian23]

He said he was the best conspiracy. A 1-person conspiracy? One would say...

[Bertrand Hustle]

Top 8 profile from Alex Bertoncini:

Do you think any cards from Conspiracy will have Legacy implications?
I'm the best conspiracy.

Nothing like a villain who loves to play the villain.

Well his Twitch account name is "2Explores" afterall. As if admitting that and making a self aware joke minimizes what he did. It's cute damage control, but whenever he sits across the table from me I will watch his every move.