Questions about some cards

[morgan_coke]

Hey, been away from the game for awhile, just started getting back in, looking at new cards etc. Wondered if anyone could answer some questions for me about why certain cards haven't/aren't being played or are exceptionally cheap right now.

Ral Zarek - is it just because he can't +1 and protect himself at the same time? Reminds me a lot of Ajani Vengeant before he got big, or is there something here I'm just missing?

Gifts Ungiven - too slow now? DRS splash damage? Really curious about this one.

Thassa, God of the Sea - three mana is a lot for a top/sylvan library variant, but you can be tricksy with it using spells like Unearth, and the unblockable clause seems really useful for dealing with opposing 'walkers, what am I missing?

Erebos, God of the Dead - Greed isn't really a viable card anymore on its own, but a simple pair of Bloodghasts or something are enough to make this guy a dude. Stopping lifegain isn't huge, but it is randomly useful sometimes. Or is he just not good enough at four mana?

Thanks for any and all knowledge, it's appreciated. Oh, and is TNN is bad to play against as everyone's posts on here seem to indicate?

[YamiJoey]

Ral: Their card untaps next turn, so his ability could just be 'Add 1 mana'.

Gifs: Generally just worse than Intuition.

Thassa: I played her as a 1-of. She's amazing, but right now she's in an awkward place. If she's not shot up after BoM10 then you'll know I've failed and she is just shit.

Erebos: Incredibly expensive CA ability, and he rarely gets active when StP is the prime removal Spell, and he costs 4. If his starts were switched to be more aggressive he might've made some kind of impact in Modern, but he costs 4 and half the time doesn't even attack or block.

Imagine a card that said "Unblockable, Hexproof, Pro-Red". That's TNN. It's just a little bit better than Invisible Stalker. (OMG if Stalker was a 2/1...)

EDIT: Actually, the main difference is that TNN also has 'Moat' attached. That's the killer. In fair match-ups it just wins.

[Phoenix Ignition]

Ral: Why did they decide to make a shitty version of Ajani Vengeant? AV is just better for every decision you'd make.

Gifts: Good in Modern, bad in Legacy. 4 mana.

Thassa: Costs 3, isn't a creature unless you're already ahead, doesn't even draw you an extra card each turn, just filters 1 at best. Unblockable ability isn't something you'd include her in a deck for either.

Erebos: Costs 4, isn't a creature unless you're already ahead, overcosted ability even if it is card advantage. But seriously, 4 mana?

TNN: Worst card ever printed in terms of both design and the nebulous idea of "fun." Hexproof unblockable prevent all damage 3/1 for :1::u::u:? I'm just skipping legacy tournaments until that card is banned. Because even winning money at a tournament isn't worth a full day of playing with/against this card. "Filthy Casual!" comments welcomed.

[twndomn]

Ral: People still try to make a WUR Stasis deck with this guy, you can be the first to make it work.

Gifts: Intuition is better.

Thassa: Its benefit is cumulative and gradual, not suitable in Legacy.

Erebos: Cost too much for little benefit, not suitable in Legacy.

TNN: Either you play combo to ignore it, or you play a deck that has built-in anti-creature like Pox or Loam.

[Grand Superior]

Ral Zarek - Ajani Vengeant is better, albeit harder to cast in Legacy, if you want this type of effect. Even then, Ajani Vengeant isn't exactly widely played in Legacy. Four mana is in "better win you the game" territory and neither of these cards do it.

Gifts Ungiven - If you're trying to do the Modern Unburial Rites+Fatty thing, the entire Reanimator deck is significantly better. If you're trying to use the card properly and use it as a tutor, Intuition is in the format and is way better.

Thassa - I've seen Miracles lists running her as a one-of, but it seems a bit win-more. It is possible to have enough devotion for her (any combination of Counterbalance, Jace, and Vendilion Clique can do it) but it seems like you'd be better off running something else.

Erebos - If you want a black card that draws cards, I can point you to either an undercosted 2/1 Invitational card that draws one card a turn or a 7/7 lifelinking Demon that, while needing to be cheated into play, ends the game when do so. Erebos is too much mana to be worth it.

True-Name Nemesis - IMO this is the worst printing for Legacy in years. It's a very unfun card that takes all the interactivity out of fair deck matches. It's also done terrible things to Legacy's diversity by giving blue decks a near-insurmountable trump in the normally difficult nonblue midrange/control deck matchups.

[Lord Seth]

Oh, and is TNN is bad to play against as everyone's posts on here seem to indicate?
Not if you're playing Blue!


Imagine a card that said "Unblockable, Hexproof, Pro-Red". That's TNN. It's just a little bit better than Invisible Stalker. (OMG if Stalker was a 2/1...)

EDIT: Actually, the main difference is that TNN also has 'Moat' attached. That's the killer. In fair match-ups it just wins.
It's waaaaaay better than Invisible Stalker. Invisible Stalker can be powerful, but you have to attach something to it... an aura, an equipment, something. Otherwise you've just got a Curse of the Pierced Heart that can chump block if you need it to and dies to sweepers. Speaking of chump blocking, unless you've attached something to Invisible Stalker, that's all it can really do in terms of blocking, whereas True-Name Nemesis can block indefinitely.

I'm actually not sure if Invisible Stalker would've been that much more powerful as a 2/1. Well, let me reiterate: It would've been more powerful, but I think it'd still be very weak in Legacy, probably unplayable. It would've been quite a bit better in Standard, though I'm not sure that Bant Auras (the main deck it was played in) would on the whole be that much better from it.

Invisible Stalker needs a lot of supporting cards to be any good. True-Name Nemesis is good on its own, and then becomes insane when combined with support.

Though come to think of it, I wonder if a True-Name Nemesis that cost 1U but was a 1/1 would be more powerful or less powerful in Legacy than its current iteration.

[morgan_coke]

Great answers guys, thanks. And yeah, I do want to take a shot at the blue red white stasis zarek deck, need something now that slide is unplayable. Wish me luck. Or not, stasis was awful to play against back in the day.

[Lemnear]

Why should anyone bother with Ral or Gifts in a Format where Jace is legal in the first place? It's not that Gifts does immediately anything in a world of DRS in terms of setting up combos or such and IF you Wish to setup a graveyard-combo, Intuition does basically the same for less mana

[YamiJoey]

Gifts is 4-mana to pitch 2 cards. You cannot fail to find with Intuition, meaning you can't make the combo. Marginal, but relevant. I have seen people do well with Gifts.

[Lemnear]

Gifts is 4-mana to pitch 2 cards. You cannot fail to find with Intuition, meaning you can't make the combo. Marginal, but relevant. I have seen people do well with Gifts.

A 4 mana double-Entomb. The last time I played the card successful was in vintage as a 4-off