Battle of Wits-Hypergenesis

[screwluse]

"Poddle of Wits (http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/poddle-of-wits-copy/)"
(links to the list on Tapped Out which is a little easier to visualize imo)

edit: Current list (09/22/16)
232 cards.


°
3 Academy Rector
1 Agent of Erebos
1 Archangel Avacyn
4 Blazing Archon
4 Bloodbraid Elf
1 Body Double
1 Consecrated Sphinx
1 Deadeye Navigator
1 Dragonlord Dromoka
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Elvish Piper
3 Empyrial Archangel
4 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Eternal Dragon
2 Glen Elendra Archmage
4 Griselbrand
4 Inferno Titan
4 Iona, Shield of Emeria
4 Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur
1 Karmic Guide
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
3 Krosan Tusker
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
1 Maelstrom Wanderer
4 Mulldrifter
1 Notion Thief
1 Oracle of Mul Daya
1 Palisade Giant
1 Perplexing Chimera
3 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Platinum Angel
1 Platinum Emperion
2 Primeval Titan
1 Resolute Archangel
4 Restoration Angel
1 Rune-Scarred Demon
1 Sagu Mauler
4 Shardless Agent
3 Shriekmaw
1 Sidisi, Undead Vizier
4 Siege Rhino
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Simic Sky Swallower
3 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Sower of Temptation
1 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
1 Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
1 Terastodon
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Zealous Conscripts

°

4 Ancient Tomb
4 Arid Mesa
1 Badlands
1 Bayou
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Bojuka Bog
2 Calciform Pools
4 City of Traitors
4 Crystal Vein
4 Evolving Wilds
4 Flooded Strand
5 Forest
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Horizon Canopy
6 Island
1 Karakas
1 Kher Keep
4 Marsh Flats
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Mountain
1 Phyrexian Tower
5 Plains
1 Plateau
4 Polluted Delta
1 Savannah
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Scrubland
1 Swamp
1 Taiga
4 Terramorphic Expanse
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Tropical Island
1 Tundra
1 Underground Sea
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Volcanic Island
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
°
4 Captured Sunlight
4 Hypergenesis
4 Show and Tell
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4 Violent Outburst
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4 Ardent Plea
1 Battle of Wits
4 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Omniscience
4 Sneak Attack
1 Zendikar Resurgent
°


==
Sideboard:


2x Back to Basics
1x Bane of Progress
2x Diabolic Servitude
1x Invincible Hymn
1x Leyline of the Void
1x Omen Machine
3x Stormcaller's Boon
1x Tangle Wire
3x Vendilion Clique




I am interested in input from anyone who'd like to develop this deck's potential. I test it pretty regularly. Some of the card choices in this list are still conjecture at this point. But please, throw out some suggestions. I'm all ears. I will provide a brief synopsis of some card choices below.



Just a friendly reminder, this is a deck that is much easier to playtest in a digital setting than it is to be shuffling and presenting in paper magic. On Magic Online or Cockatrice, the laborious act of rifling through 220 cards is done at the push of a button.

Battle of Wits is a card that has stuck out to me for sometime. Battle of Wits is a strategy where you are incentivized to play a 220 card deck. The allure is similar to EDH, where you have a plethora of slots to really customize your approach. But just like in EDH, the card slots fill up rather quickly, and what starts off feeling infinite in scope, quickly becomes a pragmatic review of the logical reasons for each of the cards included. For someone who really likes analyzing the merits of a fourth Mulldrifter over a case Shriekmaw in a main deck that is 200+ there is a lot of fun to be had in the process of brewing and transforming the shell to match your recent results or to fit in appropriately with a meta.

The appeal of Battle of Wits for me is multiple. I own this deck in real life, and for me, the value in it is both the fun as well as the insanity it incites. Legacy Battle of Wits is inherently humorous, but also extremely thought-provoking. Legacy has such a wide, card pool, and Battle of Wits necessarily incorporates the largest swath of that pool into a single, focused engine. When one sees such a deck, I think it's only natural to peak the curiosity of surrounding players. Battle of Wits regularly manages to present both complex and unique board states that require assimilation of new tactical strategies, not unlike the complex board states of multi-player EDH games.

My particular slant on Battle of Wits is to go with the Hypergenesis console. I do not consider this to be the best Hypergenesis deck in the format, but I honestly believe it is the best Battle of Wits deck in the format. It all starts with redundancy. There are 4 spells with converted mana cost of 3 that cascade. They are, Shardless Agent, Violent Outburst, Ardent Plea and Demonic Dread. Out of these, Violent Outburst is by far the best, and Demonic Dread is by far the worst. Violent Outburst can be cast at instant speed, and Demonic Dread needs a creature on board to be put on the stack.

There are 4 spells in magic that have a converted mana cost of 4 and also cascade. They are, Bloodbraid Elf, Kathari Remnant, Stormcaller's Boon and Captured Sunlight. Here, Bloodbraid Elf and Captured Sunlight are the two best for you, followed by the Remnant and then the Boon.

This main deck list runs no copies of any spell that cost 3 or less. This makes every three drop cascade spell essentially a tutor for Eureka. There are 3 drops in the deck, so Hypergenesis is not guaranteed to hit off of a Bloodbraid Elf, but it is a high possibility. One of the benefits of your early drops having the mechanic "Fuse" with Eureka for 0 mana is that counter magic is going to be directed at the Hypergenesis, so invariably, your cascade spells all tend to resolve, since the big fight is over the Hypergenesis each brings along with it. Almost under no circumstances will there ever be a tussle over your Shardless Agent, your Bloodbraid Elf or your Captured Sunlight. This may seem non-consequential, but it can be very advantageous to provide blockers, bodies or life gain in a pinch. Because you tend to win off any resolved Hypergenesis, the secondary win conditions are often difficult to fight over. When you're getting no contesting on your three mana Grizzly Bear, Birthing Pod seems like a natural secondary route. The Birthing Pod chain is actually an extremely important component of being able to sculpt the game to your liking. The Pod chain naturally goes from 3 to 10 (or 11, if you like Ulamog) and there is random utility sprinkled entirely throughout.

Almost every 4-of doesn't need an explanations. Birthing Pod is a legitimate secondary plan with small creatures like Shardless Agent or Solemn Simulacrum to chain into big, relevant monsters. Birthing Pod also isn't a redundant piece if you somehow end up with two on the board. It's just a quicker chain. Chains are obviously situational. Academy Rector is really threatening to a lot of players because they know you can just search for a Battle of Wits. Some legacy decks have an answer for the early Battle of Wits, but there are many who do not, and the Rector can often stave off several turns worth of ground attacks. It also can get utility enchantments later in the game. There are a lot of 4-ofs in the 4 drop slot. This is the first slot where we don't have to worry about a card choice impacting our odds of cascading into another cascader or the Hypergenesis. Sometimes you will suspend the spell, but usually, it will be free from cascade. Both Birthing Pod and Phyrexian Metamorph are virtual three-drops by using Phyrexian mana which is convenient.

This deck also runs as many Sol lands as it can, including Build-a-Sol-Lands like Calciform Pools. Early pressure is important so that blue mages can't just sit back and Daze our Hypergenesis in which we have so much invested. Phyrexian Metamorph can often find an early creature, an Insectile Aberration or a Batterskull to duplicate and buy some time on the defensive. This deck has some really nice inevitability, simply because as long as you can get your spells onto the battlefield whether by cascading them in, podding them up or casting things like Wurmcoils and Primeval Titans, for the most part, all of your permanents outclass an average opponents. You have Draw-7s like Griselbrand and Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur (trying out Damia, Sage of Stone as well because drawing 7 is a key to winning,) and you have free wins like Blazing Archon, Iona, Shield of Emeria, etc. With so many monsters, Sneak Attack is another useful 4 drop, and can often steal games by creating complex combat scenarios with :r: up and cards in hand. The end of turn draw-7 with Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur is especially great with :r: up and Sneak Attack since you are almost certainly refilling on monsters. Another point to keep in mind is that if you manage an early Hypergenesis, you are allowed to put lands into play. If you end up putting three fetch lands into play, and a Draw-7 like Jin or Griseldaddy, you can often times draw into a Violent Outburst and cast it at instant speed in response to a combat step. I have managed to stave of Emrakul more than once this way, by getting a fresh seven off Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur and in response to an Emrakul, the Aeons Torn attack from my opponent, Violent Outburst'ing into Blazing Archon. The utility is really far-reaching and impactful. It could even include Sigarda, Host of Herons as protection against Liliana of the Veil edicts and Eldrazi triggers, in addition to All is Dust out of MUD or even an Innocent Blood effect.

A pod on turn three that is countered, and a Sneak on turn 4 that is countered, may just clear the way for a Shardless into Hypergenesis that can often stabilize any race, with mana to pay for spell pierce on turn 5. I'm not going to pretend that this deck strikes fear in the Tempo-Delver players heart, but if you can manage to store enough mana to pay for soft permission and bait out whatever hard counters exist, the Hypergenesis sends more than the Delvers can effectively manage. Inferno Titan is another recent test. I added him in consideration of the Sneak Attack with Deadeye Navigator route. It's a way to cheat the creature in, plus the occasional utility of a come-into-play effect. Sneak Attacking a Elvish Piper is :r::g:, put a creature from your hand onto the battlefield. Restoration Angels can win in combat with Delvers. Their utility is in presenting the Delver player with a surprise, unexpected block that can potentially eat a looming counterspell that can clear a path to Hypergenesis.

I really like the chances against any non-blue strategy. It's just extremely unlikely that a creature matchup or burn strategy can go toe to toe with an Empyrial Archangel who has shroud and also has "Fog all of your opponents combats until they can present 8 unblocked damage." And even then, you still untap and have your turn to dig for an answer.

I like keeping hands with Violent Outburst obviously, but short of that, I like three mana and a solemn simulacrum, or an Evolving Wilds, an Ancient Tomb and a Krosan Tusker and maybe an Oracle of Mul Daya. Pretty much anything early in the game is great, and I just try to strap in and hold on and get some card advantage. You obviously lose to a good number of nut draws, but I think it's surprising how powerful this strategy can be. The biggest strength it has is its diversity of answers and diversity of threats. You are pretty much just priced into racing this deck. Nothing really blanks it, not even a Chalice of the Void on zero. If you win with a very powerful Hypergenesis in game one, game two, your opponent slams a chalice on zero and cackles, and you present a turn two Ancient Tomb into Birthing Pod holding Solemn or Bloodbraid or Shardless or Restoration Angel in hand. Being on the play is pretty important, but even against the fastest decks there is still a possibility of a turn two or three resolved Hypergenesis. As the list evolves, it gets faster and more resilient at the same time. I'm envisioning a point where it's only about a turn slower than the major decks of the format, which is a lot, but what it sacrifices in speed, it makes up for with grit.

It's also worth noting that 4x Leyline of Sanctity are totally maindeckable because unlike some decks, if they aren't in your opener, you can sometimes just cascade them in anyway or cast them. They do blank a number of decks including discard strategies that tend to be pretty bad since our early game is their midgame.

The lands are 4 of all 12 fetches, including the Terramorphics. Thanks for reprinting that Wizards! Fetch lands help you color fix and also dodge Wasteland which can be a problem for this deck since our gameplan against soft permission is ultimately to be able to pay for Pierces and Dazes. As a result, you are often fetching basics, and this deck runs 20 basics. That means 68 lands out of a potential 94-96 are kind of spoken for. You need one of every dual to fetch in a pinch when a window presents itself to resolve a game changing spell. That means 78 lands are accounted for. I toyed with trying Rishadan Ports to be able to slow down tempo strategy, or Phyrexian Towers to sacrifice the Rector, but I ultimately settled on 4 each of the three Sol lands, (Ancient Tomb, City of Traitors and Crystal Vein) and I have recently been testing and really like the Time Spiral storage lands. You flat out need the sol lands because you have such a high curve, and with the storage lands, yes they do get Wastelanded, but the downside of their vulnerability to wasteland I think is worth the upside when your opponent isn't running Waste or just doesn't see it. They can provide a lot of ramp. With twenty basics, you do have some insurance on your lands sticking. The Calciform Pools is the best for us because we have high-impact, mana-intensive spells largely in white. Iona, Empyrial, Chancellor and Gisela are all fairly castable if you can store some mana on these lands. In blue, we have Omniscience and Jin-Gitaxias. In green, we really only have Terastodon and in Black, Griselbrand, so I think the U/W fixer is the priority for this deck.

One of the fun things in playing this deck is being able to Nerf opposing strategies without trying all that much. Many aggressive decks can't really deal with a Blazing Archon. Against Sneak and Show, they often insist that you put your Archon in for free!!! Omnitell can easily lose to an Iona. It's not as hard as it seems to get these monsters into play. And if you're running short on action, sometimes an opponent has no way of interacting with the Collective Restraint you resolved on turn 4 with 4 basic lands. Delver, Stoneforge, Batterskull? Hmm, I think I'll cast ponder and dig for a 4th land drop... maybe I will be able to attack in two turns. Might be wrong, but I'm also testing the Plumeveils to flash on Delvers.

This deck tries to have a little game against everything, and it can go off as early as turn two at instant speed. The results are like a grab bag of Magic's greatest treasures.

Sometimes you even win with a Battle of Wits.

P.S. Another really nice part about this list is that you don't need to leave Hypergenesis in the deck. If for instance you were playing Manaless Dredge, you could board out the Hypergenesis and board in Grafdigger's Cage or Rest in Peace, and then every cascade is simply a copy of RIP. The problem is if they boarded in a way to answer a troublesome permanent, but it is at least an option to consider.

[MaximumC]

Man, I love the concept of sitting down with a 220 card deck. The opponent will laugh, then the judges will cringe as you start using your tutor effects to spend 90% of the game time shuffling. Still!

I have no idea whether your list is optimized because I have no idea how one optimizes a 220+ card deck. A hypergenesis strategy seems like a good idea for a deck like this, since you can run so many of them. I'm not sure I agree with only having 12, though. Assuming a perfectly random deck, and rounding the odds up to 0.05 with each draw (approximately 12/220, also approximately 12/219, etc) it looks like you only have a 35% chance or so to draw one of your cascade cards in the top 7 cards of your deck. I'd think you would want this number up as high as possible. Running 20 cascaders at least gets you to about 60% chance of seeing one right away, so I'd start a list like that.

(P.S. My math here is very rough. I'm basically finding the chance of drawing a cascade as your first drawn card, x/220 where x is the number of cascade cards. If you don't draw one, then the chances of drawing one next time are x/219 and so on, and you'd sum those probabilities together because your condition is disjunctive. I'm fudging by not using the exact calculations, since they won't chance much as you vary between 220 and 213 for your initial draw.)

4 Shardless Agent
4 Violent Outburst
4 Ardent Plea
4 Demonic Dread
4 Bloodbraid Elf

These are the cheapest of the cascade cards, so it seems smart to start here.

Similarly, you want 20 creatures that win the game on their own so you have better than even odds of being done once you cascade. You want cascade to equal a WIN, not just to put some power out there.

4 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
2 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
2 Kozeliek, Butcher of Truth
4 Iona, Shield of Emeria
3 Malestrom Wanderer (haste = good)
3 Progenitus
1 Terrastadon (Mostly a tutor target to remove problems)
1 Ashen Rider (ditto)

So 40 of your deck is your core win condition. Now we have to be able to FIND it. I agree you want a large number of creatures that are good to hypergenesis into, but also have utility if you are not cascading. The thing your deck needs most is dig, so I'd go with the cycling creatures here. (Bonus points if you make them think you're going the Living End route!)

4 Deadshot Minotaur
4 Street Wraith
4 Krosan Tusker
4 Monstrous Carabid

Now we're at 56 cards. Then you need tutors. Tutors galore. I don't agree with Birthing Pod for two reasons. First, it requires you to have creatures all over the curve, which is bad for your cascade plan. Unless you start the curve at 3, which is far too slow for legacy. Second, it suggests you have many random one-ofs, which similarly seems pretty bad for a deck like this. I think you want more universal tutors. Probably at least 24 of them.

4 Academy Rector (No brainier, since it can get Battle of Wits or Omniscience for the win)
4 Congregation at Dawn (Fetch Bloodbraid Elf AND the creature you want to hit with Genesis once you cascade. Nice)
4 Cruel Tutor (It's Vampiric Tutor for cascade! Could be Grim Tutor if you want to add $1,000.00 to the deck)
4 Defense of the Heart (should auto win if it resolves against creature-based decks. Also gives you an out to permanents with Rector)
4 Intuition (Shouldn't be hard to get either a cascade or a game ending bomb)
4 Insidious Dreams (Again, fetches both a cascader and the card you want to dump)

That puts us at 80 cards. Then there's your win condition cards, probably just 12 of em:

1 Battle of Wits
1 Omniscience
4 Show and Tell
4 Sneak Attack
2 Hypergenesis

We are now at 92 cards. Lastly, your disruption and removal suite. This should protect and enable your combos while also answering threats (i.e. should kill Rector or protect Genesis). Say we use 30 of these, taking us to 122 cards:

4 Toxic Deluge
4 Massacre
4 Flusterstorm
4 Swan Song
4 Grixis Charm
4 Crosis Charm
4 Jund Charm
4 Cabal Therapy

And then, the mana base.

20 rainbow lands...

4 City of Brass
4 Gemstone Mine
4 Rainbow Vale (you're not tapping it until you try to win usually)
4 Undiscovered Paradise
4 Tendo Ice Bridge

8 sol lands...

4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb

30 fetchlands...

3 of each fetchland!

20 duals...

2 of each original dual land for fetchy goodness.

10 basics. You don't want to draw them, but you want them around just in case.

2 of each basic land.

And some acceleration:

4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Elvish Spirit Guide

For a total of 96 mana sources.

That should put us at 120 cards exactly. This is more like what I would play if I was going 220 card plus hypergenesis.

[screwluse]

This deck has a lot of moving parts. Using the Hypergenesis strategy makes you pretty pot-committed to using zero :0:, :1:, or :2: drops, and as few :3: drops as possible. While it may seem like value to run a slew of 3 drop tutors, I feel like it's a net tempo loss. Beginning the primary curve at 4 allows your cascade spells the best shot at finding an immediately impactful spell, either a cheaper cascade, or actual Hypergenesis, or the-sometimes-just-as-good Show and Tell. This means that Cabal Therapy, Swan Song and Flusterstorm are non-bos. I mentioned Ardent Plea is fine. Demonic Dread is cheap, but I consider it a sideboard slot. If you cascaded into Demonic Dread with no creature on board, it would fizzle.

I have logged a lot of games with this deck. Probably 300 overall. I consider the tutor-approach to be too slow. Imagine you're under serious pressure with a Bloodbraid Elf in hand against a hellbent opponent. On a turn where you just need to resolve a Hypergenesis and move into a mid-game, you cascade into an awkward tutor, and you are set back by a turn. The cascade spells function as your tutors. Instead of tutoring for something you have to pay for later, they tutor for something that's free, and instead of setting it up on the next turn, it impacts the board immediately.

I am on the fence about Kozilek and Ulamog. My problem with the lesser Eldrazi is Swords to Plowshares. It is nice that they are big and Annihilate stuff, and they are great to Sneak Attack with. Part of every creature consideration is, "how good are they with Show and Tell?" I go back and forth between whether to play the lesser Eldrazi. Emrakul is fine because he's protected from Swords. In this case, I think it's more important to have a plan and to build around that. Personally, I'd rather have an Empyrial Archangel that can blank attackers, presents a very relevant clock, and if I Show and Tell her, she does not lose to Swords to Plowshares. The flip side is that some games I can actually cast Kozilek, and in situations where I have ten mana at my disposal I feel foolish for leaving him out.

The one area where I feel pretty confident that I have it close to right is the lands. Sleeving up the extra duals isn't worth giving your opponent the Wasteland target, as that is a brutal tempo loss when your curve starts so high. The duals serve the role of fixing just fine as a 1-of for all ten. Fetches are by far the best lands in this deck since every fetch can get any color in a pinch. All 48 are optimal in my opinion. The life lost from ONS/ZEN fetching can be relevant, but the ability to get basics is so important. The only dual I've considered adding a second is Savannah, but a case could be made for Tundra as well. The mana base needs to take into consideration only what I intend on casting. I run 4 Griselbrand, but I'm not going to consider him when building my mana base. Looking only at the spells that cost 6 or less and could therefore be considered castable at some point in a game, :g: is the deepest, followed by :w: and followed again by :u:.... :r: is not far behind :u: and :b: trails by a good margin. So I think of this as a Bant deck with access to :r: for Sneak Attack and cascade spells, and I built the mana base with that in mind.

[screwluse]

I could see an argument for going down to only 3 Hypergenesis, but I wouldn't go lower. Some games you draw Hypergenesis, and your opponent will always save counter magic for it. Plus having a 4th in there is protection against your Bloodbraid Elfs netting you +1 Simian Spirit Guides.

[ESG]

Excellent discussion. I like your choices, and I would be hard-pressed to argue that this isn't the best way to build a Battle of Wits deck. I also like the possibility of being able to drop a Battle of Wits into play against those gutsy Sneak and Show players who decide to go for it, although you're running only one in this list. I'm surprised that it and the Academy Rectors are not automatic four-ofs.

It seems like Grave Titan would be superior to Primeval Titan in this list, since you have no specialty lands to fetch. I also wonder about the Inferno Titan slot. Would more copies of Wurmcoil Engine be better there? It would offer better synergy with Birthing Pod when climbing up the chain. Have you considered Simic Sky Swallower? It's not as good as Empyrial Archangel, but you could Pod into it. Also, is Kiki-Jiki not desirable for some reason? I don't think I would ever play a Pod deck without that card. Just my initial thoughts ... You have a lot of time and a lot of thought put into this, so I'm not sure my cursory examination of the deck carries much weight.

[screwluse]

I have had the Academy Rector in as 4-of from the get-go, but then I realized that many games end up going beyond 200 cards in my library with fetches typically representing 2 cards, the card they get plus itself. In the middle to late game, the wheels come off the Battle of Wits strategy, and my aim is to simply enable it to roll on its own to a victory. It's weird because when the deck is really working, it almost employs an Attrition strategy. This is because the cards themselves are so individually powerful and impactful. A successful deck like RUG delver has made us feel like a 3/3 with shroud is a threat, when in a lot of scenarios, but the creature itself is not individually impactful, so much as it becomes impactful when coupled with the disruption of Stifle and mana denial. Even big vanilla goyf, if you think about it in EDH terms, Goyf is not a very great EDH card. The body is nice, but when a game can develop, the "threats" of the format become almost like the shadows on the wall that were once perceived as real, to borrow a metaphor from Plato.

Academy Rector is really great. Now that I think about it, it seems like 4-of is correct. I tend to think of Battle of Wits as a backdoor win condition. The thing that makes Battle of Wits a mediocre avenue to victory is that you must untap with it in play. Just that single turn is an opportunity for an undoing of the effort put into Battle. It is just a huge blowout if you put multiple resources into putting the Battle of Wits on board, and then they somehow answer it, or kill you on the turn they get to untap. I think it is more a thematic centerpiece than a primary route to victory.

Also, the titans are totally interchangeable and so are all of the monsters really, based on the magnitude and where one falls on the Timmy Johnny Spike-o-meter. I had Warstorm Surges in at one point. I just loved not even having to go to attacks. Just, Warstorm Surge and Gisela, gg. The other thing to mention about the Birthing Pod chain and working up it is you only usually get one or two pod activations. Because either you win with those two, or your opponent neutralizes it. It is such a powerful board piece, the pod, that if you get to use it once or twice, you should probably be significantly ahead.

I have considered Simic Sky Swallower. I think it's perfect fit. It flies and has shroud and is a very nice clock. It's also castable in low percentages of games. I put one Cavern of Souls in the deck now too, so for those top deck wars, when you have 7 lands and need a big monster, it can fit in a pinch. And Kiki-Jiki I think probably belongs in here, in fact in my most updated version, Kiki is in it. Kiki belongs, I think because it just gives you one more kill, by comboing with the Restoration Angel. Also, Kiki is just a pure value creature. One of my only concerns is the triple red casting cost. It is doable, but the deck likes to fetch basics. I think it's more of an ideal Pod target for value at 5, or else as a surprise Sneak attack that can block and generate value in a pinch. I had upped Deadeye Navigator to 2x, because Deadeye is just so good with a Sneak Attack. Kiki is like an Ace in the hole with Sneak because when you have the several red available, you can essentially Sneak in a Rune-Scarred Demon and then tutor for Kiki, sneak in Kiki, make a Rune-Scarred Demon, tutor for Mikaeus, end the turn and Undying a Kiki + Demon with sneak up. It's just really hard to defend the Trickbind avenue with value monster ETB effects.

One last thing that I am currently testing...I took the Plumeveils out and just put Vendilion Cliques in. I don't know why that never occured to me before. Vendilion Clique has both an inconvenient and convenient mana cost. The most inconvenient part is it is UU. The next most is kind of a positive at the same time. It costs 3. That's fine though. Sometimes it will come in off Bloodbraid Elf, but most situations, a Vendilion Clique is a fine addition to any board state. But the effect is truly what the deck lacks. An instant speed defense against attacking Insectile Aberrations, and it also checks for a clear path in the next main phase. I should have thought of this long ago, but I got somewhat fixated on no spells under 4, that I missed out on testing all this time with Clique. I had considered Venser, but Clique is just far superior.

Well.... that's mostly it for right now. Thanks for coming by, and checking out this weird Frankenstein deck. If any of you end up trying it out on Magic Online, let me know. I'd love to watch a video on its performance and what changes you incorporate. The thing with testing it on cockatrice is, you can't cascade automatically. It requires you to reveal each card. So when I play on there and I cast Violent Outburst or Shardless Agent, I simply ask my opponent if I can reveal my deck to them, and search for Hypergenesis to save us both time.

[FTW]

Whoever suggested Swan Song, cards like that are simply not playable in a cascade deck. You will cascade into them and lose epicly.

Disruptive spells should start 4cc and higher so you never cascade into them. Ideal choices are:


4 Force of Will
4 Misdirection
4 Unmask
2 Massacre
2 Submerge
4 Supreme Verdict
4 Damnation
4 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Chancellor of the Annex
4 Leyline of Sanctity


Next, I like the large number of cascade spells. I think those are a must.

But for Hypergenesis to be effective, you need 3+ fatties in hand. So I think the deck should be a lot more fatties than disruption.

In your fatties, I would include some blatant sources of card advantage and some removal for whatever they drop on their side.
With the new Legend rules, there's less reason to worry about getting stuck with multiple legends in hand since the ones with ETB abilities will still trigger. I am especially not worried about ones that draw you 7 since any dead cards in hand are negated by how many freaking cards you draw.


4 Griselbrand
4 Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur
4 Rune-Scarred Demon
4 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
3 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
4 It That Betrays
3 Progenitus
4 Blightsteel Colossus
4 Ashen Rider
4 Angel of Despair
4 Terastodon
4 Woodfall Primus
4 Massacre Wurm
4 Bogardan Hellkite
4 Luminate Primordial
4 Iona, Shield of Emeria
4 Sphinx of the Steel Wind
3 Akroma, Angel of Wrath
4 Hellkite Overlord


and win conditions:


3 Hypergenesis
4 Show and Tell
4 Eureka
4 Sneak Attack
3 Diabolic Servitude

[ESG]

Those are reasonable suggestions, but I don't think the OP wanted the deck to be all-in on Hypergenesis. He seems to be seeking a value-style deck that can also just explode with Hypergenesis with the right draw.

@ screwluse: My thinking on Rector and Battle of Wits was that you can access them via Hypergenesis (running more copies increases the odds of having them in hand when you cascade) and by Podding into Rector into a 5-drop. When you Pod a Rector into the 5-drop, your opponent needs to answer the Battle of Wits first or is outright dead, but your 5-drop is also probably a game-changer. Baneslayer Angel is a must-answer threat that a lot of decks aren't prepared for, and Kiki-Jiki could threaten an instant win. So you'd simply be threatening the opponent from two angles simultaneously instead of one. Anyway, I like the deck, and I wish you luck. Keep us posted on your matchups and progress.

[FTW]

Those are reasonable suggestions, but I don't think the OP wanted the deck to be all-in on Hypergenesis. He seems to be seeking a value-style deck that can also just explode with Hypergenesis with the right draw.

That makes sense but it also seems to have a lot of drawbacks:
1) cascade spells suck if you don't have "the right draw" with some fatties in hand
2) you're forced to play a high curve and no 1cc-2cc just to play around anti-synergy with cascade

Basically, I don't think you can play half-Hypergenesis effectively. You're basically playing anti-value Magic with the multiple deck design constraints (200+ cards, no cheap spells including limited ability to mana accelerate). Playing cascade combo radically warps the composition of your deck away from optimal directions (no 1-2cc, otherwise bad cascade cards). I don't see why you would want to play fair Magic with those drawbacks in a 1-on-1 format without the full upside of the combo.

The OP list actually looks fairly centred around getting off Hypergenesis.

[screwluse]

I have definitely evolved my opinion on the correct combination of synergy and efficiency as it pertains to this deck. I used to be extremely all-in on the combo, and I wanted to win right away because I felt like I had a very short window, since it felt like I'd tricked my opponent. And it would only be a matter of a couple of turns before I would again be on the backfoot. I have somewhat changed my mind about that recently, though. I really like where this deck attacks the meta. 200 cards is definitely looked at via a cursory glance as a hinderance. Something this deck needs to overcome in order to win. But I am starting to see it differently. I see the Birthing Pod as a primary enabler of the value that this deck gets by being so loaded with cards. Namely, that there are so many situational slots that would otherwise be cut away from a streamlined deck. I have never really been happy with Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite but I recently realized that she belongs back in the deck, if only as a singleton answer to Empty the Warrens or goblins or Death and Taxes, etc. It's kind of like this deck maindecks a 40 card wishboard.

Also, I do suffer a good bit from a lack of one and two mana spells, but also, there is something nice about starting the curve at three. Obviously Ponder and Brainstorm are good. But sometimes, Ponder reveals a land, a Ponder and a dead draw. It's like a dog that is very quick and fast and will win many short races, but it can also occasionally chase its own tail. Again, not saying they're bad spells :) just that the higher points on the curve provide less efficiency but can really make up for it with added substance, and it's important to evaluate both the mana efficiency as well as the substance together. I also think that is only likely to continue to improve as we've moved from the "age of spells" during Magic's first fifteen years to the "age of creatures," as some people have described the extremely powerful printing of things like Emrakul, Iona, Griselbrand, etc. The sky is the limit for fatties, and cheating these is all about pure value.

Against fair decks, you are really rewarded for being able to stick so many "large" monsters with a single cascade. But important value slots like Restoration Angel and Mulldrifter and Krosan Tusker... spells that don't require Hypergenesis for their value and are just very good magic cards... really give you an advantage against the wide variety of answers that opponents will attempt to employ to defense you. Because there are SO many slots to work with, it really makes sense to me not to use them all to optimize your own strategy, but also as your own answers to the meta.

This also helps when you randomly find that in game 2, your all-in strategy has been successfully defensed by a card like Chalice of the Void on 0 or the appearance of cards like Ethersworn Canonist. The other point about Birthing Pod is that it is also effective copies 4-8 of the situationally best creatures in your deck. Like if for instance, on turn three, you play a third land and cascade into Hypergenesis, and your Elf opponent lets it resolve..... you have two creatures in hand, two lands and a Birthing Pod. The 2 creatures are not situationally important, but Pod makes them live by letting you convert one into the most relevant creature in the deck. If you are facing a Jace with the ability to just return your monster, it means podding up your Shroud creatures, etc. Pod is never really dead even if you have no creatures on board and nothing in the hand late in the game- like say facing a Liliana of the Veil- because Pod can also turn on your Shardless Agents and Bloodbraid Elves and convert them into Baneslayer Angels or Mulldrifters. Also, the Mulldrifter is a nice include because it can be a Divination on turn 3 by evoking it. Plus with Diabolic Servitude, which I slotted (thanks to you for that suggestion,) it is a great follow up to the turn three evoked Mully, not to mention its synergy with Karmic Guide.

I have unfortunately been flexing some of the spots assigned to Restoration Angel, so that's now down to 2, but that too works really well off Hypergenesis with Mulldrifter, as an Opportunity.

I definitely agree that card advantage is the name of the game, especially when your late game is so much deeper than theirs. But I have found that, rather than just wanting to go off and win right away off a resolved Hypergenesis with haste creatures and a hyper-aggressive mindset, I have been happy playing more of the control role. Sometimes a deck simply can't beat a live card on board. Many aggressive decks cannot beat a Blazing Archon. And that's one of the major advantages Battle of Wits brings to the table and is able to exploit. It's actually a reasonably fast deck, all things considered.

edit: Also, one other thing is that cascade spells aren't necessarily bad if the hand is not packed with monsters, like for instance in an opening 7, because they turn on every monster draw after that.

[screwluse]

@ screwluse: My thinking on Rector and Battle of Wits was that you can access them via Hypergenesis (running more copies increases the odds of having them in hand when you cascade) and by Podding into Rector into a 5-drop. When you Pod a Rector into the 5-drop, your opponent needs to answer the Battle of Wits first or is outright dead, but your 5-drop is also probably a game-changer. Baneslayer Angel is a must-answer threat that a lot of decks aren't prepared for, and Kiki-Jiki could threaten an instant win. So you'd simply be threatening the opponent from two angles simultaneously instead of one. Anyway, I like the deck, and I wish you luck. Keep us posted on your matchups and progress.

Those are very good points. I think I should consider it and test it with the numbers on those specific cards readjusted. Part of this process for me has been flexing a lot of spots simply so that I can have the opportunity to try new strategies, but I think you could be right about those. The nice thing about a second Battle of Wits at least is that if I am Thoughtseized and it is discarded (like it usually would be) then it makes my Rectors much worse later in the game. But with at least two in the main, it's very likely one will always be available as a Rector target. The one bad thing about Battle of Wits is it really isn't a very good card in multiples if you randomly happen to draw them.

[ESG]

Any testing or tournament reports? I want to hear the epic stories!

[screwluse]

Any testing or tournament reports? I want to hear the epic stories!

Since you ask, yes, I've been testing extensively. I've been updating the list as well to reflect recent changes. I just got out of a long match. Game one took somewhere around 40 minutes. I'll recap the highlights. My opponent mulligans to five. He is on the play. I keep my seven. He opens with Mox Diamond and bins Karakas. He plays Rishadan Port. I lead with Windswept Heath. I fully expect my opponent to Port me EOT but he does not, so maybe he's distracted. (I would have fetched a basic forest.) He goes Maze of Ith. I play another fetch. He neglects to port again. He puts a Wasteland into play. Seeing his Wasteland in play spurs him into Port action, and he taps in my upkeep. I proceed to play fetches for three or four turns, and he keeps porting each new fetch until I have one of each basic on the board. He doesn't get much action going early. Only managing to port me while looking for his Life from the Loam. I have a Violent Outburst in my hand, but I don't have anything exceptionally threatening to put into play in my hand. I think my hand was Show and Tell, Hypergenesis, Shardless Agent, Violent Outburst, 2x Restoration Angel, Vendilion Clique and Captured Sunlight. I keep putting off my Hypergenesis while he presents no real board.

Finally he assembles his Punishing Fire with two Groves. I decide I should move in, even if it's not a great clock attacking into his double Maze of Iths. I cascade and put my creatures into play. I put the Shardless Agent into play because I have the Captured Sunlight. I target myself with Vendilion Clique to bottom my own copy of Hypergenesis that is in my hand. I draw an Elesh Norn. He puts in a third Maze of Ith and a copy of Glacial Chasm. We buckle in for a long one here. I untap and Show and Tell Elesh Norn. He tries to respond with a Punishing Fire on my Agent, but I remind him that Elesh Norn is a state-based effect, so he takes it back. He pays for his Chasm, then he top decks Life From the Loam and slams Karakas, bouncing Elesh Norn. He then starts to chisel at me slowly with Punishing Fir, electing to get my Shardless Agent while the Grand Cenobite is on vacation. After a couple turns of draw/go, I am holding Simic Sky Swallower, Inferno Titan and Elesh Norn. I decide to Capture some Sunlight. I am mostly thinking that Simic Sky Swallower dodges Maze of Ith, but he keeps Loaming back the Glacial Chasm. On a bright side, he has no Exploration so he does start to dry up on lands from the sacrifice ability.

After I gain my four life, he bounces the Norn. At least he's dredging spells and not lands. He bins two copies of Gamble and one Crop Rotation. Marit Lage seems like its a ways off. He's also through about half of his deck. He burns an Angel, but the Simic Sky Swallower still represents a threat, so he's dredging like a mad man trying to find his business, but he keeps having to lay his Chasm, so I don't mount a shrouded offense. It's about here that he realizes I'm playing Battle of Wits and says something like, "Isn't there some card that lets you win if you have 200 or 100 cards in your deck?" He only has one half of the combo by now, just the Thespian's Stage.

The turn before I had top decked my Iona, Shield of Emeria, but I have no use for it against Karakas. Then I top deck the engine of the deck, and its namesake. Battle of Wits, you ask? No. Poddle of Wits. I slam Birthing Pod, and I pod my last angel into Sigarda. One of my tactics when Podding into essential chain pieces is to go for Shrouded or Hexproof creatures, so that I can reliably continue the chain on my next turn. I wasn't sure exactly what I'd like Sigarda to become, but I was starting low on the curve so that I had many great options on the upcoming, pivotal turns. I saw a line that included untapping with my 5 basics in play, tapping a green and another land to pod the Sky Swallower into Terastodon. That could take care of Karakas, a Grove of the Burnwillows and his Thespian's Stage so that he wouldn't be able to burn me as consistently. And with my remaining three lands, I would pay a blue and two for Show and Tell, putting Iona into play and naming Green to forever lock him out of the Loam and thus Karakas.

I proceeded with this, and he responded to my Elephant targets by tapping his mana. He sacrificed a Maze of Ith to cast Crop Rotation, and he rotated out his Dark Depths. He spent the last of his mana to copy his snow-land and he put his legendary black flier into play. By this point, after having gained so much life through his groves, I was at 22, but would need to fetch to 21 the next turn. Ostensibly I could survive an attack once, but I also had Sigarda out who was bravely defending the realm with her hexproof boobies.

I Show and Tell'ed my Iona, naming green. He put his Glacial Chasm back in, and I put a Polluted Delta into play. I had been so absorbed in my line to lock out Loam, that I didn't pay much attention to what I drew. Once I had Iona in play, I took a second to look at my draw. It was Vendilion Clique. A perfect draw!! He attacked with his Lage, and I blocked it with my Hexproof titties. He passed the turn, and I fetched a Tropical Island. I drew Shriekmaw and Cliqued it to the bottom. I then podded the Clique into a Phyrexian Metamorph and I had me a Marit Lage as well. He Gambled for something, Manabond, and then he ditched it. He grumbled, and then he tried to cast Life from the Loam, but Mutumbona, Shield of Battle-a-Witsia said, NOO NOO NOO faster than Amy Winehouse in a protestant parade. My opponent and I took a second to register that we had just been through an epic match of Magic and also that he had a slow start, which I conceded, and we both exchanged our gratitude for another chance to play this awesome game that we love.

Thanks for the help in designing it. It's been so much fun to play. Two days ago, I bought brand new Dragonshields for it. I bought 300 black shields, 300 KMC perfect fits, and I bought the Blue Elder Dragon Vault Commander box from Legion to transport it. I only need 12 or 14 more lands to completely finish my paper copy. It's been a labor of love. I've been building it for almost three years now. Really excited to take it to some local events.

XOXO

edit: Also, I got all Unhinged lands for it. Is that my way of pimping my baby? No. It's more because searching this deck is a bitch, and the Unhinged basics are the brightest and easiest to spot. Once I have all my fetches though, I might just want to pick up four Arabian Nights' Mountains for it. Just as the card itself, Battle of Wits, explains: The Wizard who reads a thousand books is powerful. The Wizard who memorizes a thousand books is insane. And this deck is definitely the product of Wizard-insanity, so I figure sleeving it with Arabian Nights' gorgeous Mountains is only fair. But then I'll be done....I swear!!!! :) <3

[screwluse]

Any testing or tournament reports? I want to hear the epic stories!

Also, some of the cards that I have been the happiest with might look at first glance to be odd choices. Like Palisade Giant came up HUGE in a game earlier today. I was playing against burn. We were in sideboard games, and I had a Baneslayer Angel who was being completely nullified by his Ensnaring Bridges. We were both in top deck mode, and I'd gained a bit of life from a Captured Sunlight, but he was just starting to get ahead. And then I top decked (what else?) my Birthing Pod. The neutered Slayer became a gentle Giant. I sacrificed the angel and asked if it was ok to resolve my 6 drop. Who could expect such a lumbering Giant, so he lets me resolve it, even though he has a Lightning Bolt in hand and a Lavamancer on board. I get out the Palisade Giant and his reaction was priceless. It was basically, ".... wait, what??!?!......"

Palisade Giant is of course no Empyrial Archangel, but it's nice that it is on a different curve slot. The goal then became to Pod my other useless creatures into Avacyn, Angel of Hope, while the Giant bought me those precious turns to do so. Overall, I'm just having a lot of fun playing this kind of complex, deep magic, and I'm also completely thrilled that no matter how good I think I've gotten this deck so far, it has so much more potential to get even better, even more resilient... Like for instance...I really am not thrilled with my sideboard. But at the same time, I just need more experience, more practice, and more suggestions to get it into something that really rounds the deck out, so that it can really transform its matchups into more favorable outcomes.

The cards I am liking in the sideboard are:

SB: 1 Omen Machine - I board this in quite a bit, but I'm not sure how useful it is. I do find some games where I really wish I had it in my hand, so I have to think it's a valuable counter-strategy even just against decks with Ponder/Brainstorm.

SB: 2 Stormcaller's Boon - I board this in frequently too. This gets boarded in anytime I just want to get a Hypergenesis as quickly as possible. Against decks with absolutely no way to interact with Hypergenesis (like mono-red) you can board these two spells in and board two copies of Hypergenesis out since you will usually win if you resolve one, let alone two.

SB: 1 Story Circle - I like having an answer to burning me out. Burn is sometimes hard for me to deal with because I can usually win if it's a battle of board presence, but the reach that red has can present not just a fast clock, but one that doesn't much care about Flying/Shrouded blockers... plus I think Story Circle in my board is style points.

SB: 2 Collective Restraint - This used to be a maindeck card. It has always been a valuable part of my strategy, and being able to summon it with Academy Rector is extremely useful. But there's one thing that this card can't do, and that's Pod it into something else. It's not a creature, so it can't start a chain. For that reason alone it's in the board. Leyline of Sanctity is in the Maindeck, so I could see some argument for why it is and this shouldn't be, etc. The thing is, there are some creatures which are like effective copies of this card. Like Blazing Archon is basically a Collective Restraint for all intents and purposes. But right now, I don't have any Leylines of Sanctity. I could put them in, but they tend to just be bad creatures. Like Spirit of the Hearth? Is that an option? I guess it's not terrible. I guess I need to playtest it. It obviously has a few very important uses, like against ANT or burn, etc. We'll see...

SB: 2 Diabolic Servitude - This is a great card. It's a perfect converted mana cost as well. It's pretty much an option when the game is going to get grindy and lots of value is going to just lurk in the dark of the grave, waiting to be called forth.

And I'm still unsure about,

SB: 2 Eureka - This is honestly just so that this deck has more outs against Chalice of the Void. I almost never board it in otherwise.
SB: 2 Wall of Denial - I keep trying this card because it's a really great spell against almost any aggressive strategy, but so far I haven't really been able to get it into play enough, and there's also the problem that while this does stonewall almost every attacking creature, it definitely doesn't beat two attacking creatures.. so for now, it's just like... a placeholder for something much better and much more relevant...

SB: 1 Acidic Slime - I've been wanting to keep my list at 224 card lately, and I recently boarded this out for something I felt was more maindeckable. The Slime is useful against Merfolk because you tend to need to play an island to get your spells on the board, and then they islandwalk you. The Slime is to nuke your own island so you can start frying up fish.

SB: 1 Bojuka Bog - Do you ever lose to dredge and just think, I should not lose like this again...? Maybe this should be Leyline of the Void, but it's also nice that Primeval Titan gets it. We do have a maindeck defense against dredge with the newly printed Agent of Erebos which is actually pretty good in that it's at the perfect slot on the curve, the ability is relevant against a host of legacy decks from Goyf and Mongeese to Lands and dredge strategies. Plus, the constellation means it can be refreshed, and that's just value!

SB: 1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor - I never want this card. I anticipated that this would get brought in to REALLY long, slow, grindy matchups like maybe Miracles or something. It's an amazing card, but I just hardly ever find myself wanting to bring it in. I considered Ajani Vengeant recently, but part of it is, Planeswalkers don't come in off Hypergenesis, so it's somewhat of a non-bo... either way, I'm sure this belongs as at least a singleton copy in the 239, but I guess I'm just bad at magic and don't know how or when to side it in.


I also considered Tangle Wire recently, but I also don't know how or when to side that in. It just felt like it could be good in controlly matchups.

[ESG]

Wow, that is suitably epic. Congrats on the win! I'm glad Simic Sky Swallower got a chance to shine.

I looked over your revised list. I like the inclusion of Agent of Erebos. Did Grave Titan not pull his weight? I felt that he would be particularly good with Pod, giving you a whole team and then getting upgraded to the best 7 CMC monster for the matchup. I see you have two Inferno Titans. How have those been performing? I'm also curious about Deadeye Navigator and Elvish Piper. If I was running this deck, I can't imagine not maxing out Academy Rector, since it so easily can backdoor you into a win via Battle of Wits, but there are lots of moving parts here.

Edit: Have you ever considered Protean Hulk for the deck? Seems like it could be another way to either backdoor an instant win via Academy Rector or get incredible value out of in a Pod chain. Also has a big body if he happens to need to go into the red zone.