Defender of the Value

[Dr. No Face]

Based off the article by Drew Levin (www.starcitygames.com/article/28292_Total-Defense-Of-The-Heart.html) , I had an idea of what it did, and had a few ideas for this kind of deck.

I made basically an alpha list last night with some help, basing it partially on sneak and show:


//Lands: 21
4 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors
4 Forbidden Orchard
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Scalding Tarn
2 Tropical Island
2 Island

//Consistency: 12
4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
2 Preordain
2 Sensei's Divining Top

//Counterspells: 13
4 Force of Will
4 Spell Pierce
4 Swan Song
1 Misdirection

//The Combo: 14
4 Defense of the Heart
1 Xenagos, God of Revels
3 Emrakul, The Aeons Torn
1 Griselbrand
4 Show and Tell
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria

//Sideboard

1 Laboratory Maniac
1 Leveler
1 Ashen Rider
2 Yixlid Jailer
2 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Beast Within
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
3 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Abrupt Decay


Any comment? Suggestions? I know that Defense might not be the best card for what I am trying to do, so a suggestion or two would be nice.

**EDIT**
It is a premium article, to explain why I said I had an idea of what it did.

I will make sure to do extensive testing soon, I can get a few things from some friends, then I am heading to my lgs to test against alot of things.

[FTW]

This is pretty cool. Deck makes Swan Song amazing.

Defense really capitalizes on how Krosan Grip is criminally underplayed in favor of Abrupt Decay or counterable stuff. And no one plays GSZ into Pridemage bluff anymore. Should be really hard for opponents to remove Defense through all those counters and cantrips.

I guess you have 2 maindeck "I Win" Defense combos via Emrakul + Xenagos (30/30 annihilate 6 = lose the game) and Kiki+Angel. Griselbees + Xenagos is also ridiculously mad profit. I like that Defense going off means you win THIS TURN, period, that's it. Seems better than passing the turn after Show and Tell or getting a 50% win completion off a Sneak Attack activation.

I do like that you picked Angel (resilient to TNN hate and Bolt and Abrupt Decay) over Pestermite/Exarch. The problem is that Kiki+Angel is much more vulnerable to removal (Xenagos and Emrakul are immune to pretty much every instant removal spell since no one plays Diabolic Edict anymore) and loses to Revoker (which many decks run main) and either Kiki or Angel on their own SUCK off your own or enemy Show and Tell or otherwise. That means you have one combo that is clearly better and a back-up, sub-par combo. It also means your 2 Show and Tells are pretty weak a lot of the time and there are some dead cards/dud interactions. Kiki combo only seems better if opponent somehow has a way to manage a hasty Emrakul but not infinite tokens (noting that Karakas stops both combos anyway). I guess it's for if you have Emrakul/Xenagos stuck in hand. But Brainstorm puts Xenagos back. And you can also just run more Emrakul. If you have Xenagos stuck in hand, you can hardcast it or just search up Emrakul+Griselbees with Defense.

That all brings me back to: why do you need 2 different "I win" combos in singletons?


I think you should play maindeck:
4 Emrakul
1 Griselbrand
4 Show and Tell
0 Kiki
0 Restoration Angel

Maybe put 1 Kiki and 1 Angel SB for whichever cases you would need the Kiki win option.
Maybe a 3/2 or 3/3 split of Emrakul and Griselbrand instead.



//Lands: 21
4 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors
4 Forbidden Orchard
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Scalding Tarn
2 Tropical Island
2 Island

//Consistency: 12
4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
2 Preordain
2 Sensei's Divining Top

//Counterspells: 13
4 Force of Will
4 Spell Pierce
4 Swan Song
1 Misdirection

//The Combo: 14
4 Defense of the Heart
1 Xenagos, God of Revels
4 Emrakul, The Aeons Torn
1 Griselbrand
4 Show and Tell

[IzexD]

I'm going to take credit now cause I was the aforementioned help lol and l love the idea of emerkool, it's just better.

[Dr. No Face]

@FTW

That makes alot of sense, thanks for the suggestion!

[Valtrix]

I can't help but think Iona, Shield of Emeria should be there somewhere.

[Dr. No Face]

I can't help but think Iona, Shield of Emeria should be there somewhere.

Funnily Enough, it was in my previous build, I can take down an emrakul and put it in.

Thanks for suggesting!

[Megadeus]

Essentially a legacy version of Oath. Interesting. Defense tutoring rather than just blindly flipping is actually pretty nice and helps not restrict deck building. If you really wanna go deep, you could try that 1 drop black 3/3 that goes to your opponents side. Forget the name. I'm just thinking that getting to use orchard 3 times may be a bit ambitious.

[Darkenslight]

Essentially a legacy version of Oath. Interesting. Defense tutoring rather than just blindly flipping is actually pretty nice and helps not restrict deck building. If you really wanna go deep, you could try that 1 drop black 3/3 that goes to your opponents side. Forget the name. I'm just thinking that getting to use orchard 3 times may be a bit ambitious.

This is the perfect deck for Varchild's War-Riders.

[FTW]

Essentially a legacy version of Oath. Interesting. Defense tutoring rather than just blindly flipping is actually pretty nice and helps not restrict deck building. If you really wanna go deep, you could try that 1 drop black 3/3 that goes to your opponents side. Forget the name. I'm just thinking that getting to use orchard 3 times may be a bit ambitious.

Card is called Sleeper Agent. Varchild's War Riders is a thing too, although it only gets them 3 tokens by turn 4.

Anyway, this isn't Vintage. You don't need to activate Forbidden 3 times, since most Legacy decks play creatures. You just need to activate it/cast Swan Song until they get up to 3. Keep in mind if they don't play creatures they also can't put pressure on you, which gives you more time to activate Forbidden (for any aggro or aggro-control deck i.e. 3/4 the format).

Of the decks that don't cast creatures early, there are:
-those with no clock (Miracles, prison, Enchantress). you can activate Forbidden 3 times.
-those that cantrip and cast Show and Tell. you can get lucky and drop your own Emrakul FTW
-other combo decks that lose to blue decks with 12+ counterspells, or at least have to slow down enough that you can activate Forbidden 3 times
-those that run 0 lands, cast 0 spells and somehow attack you with a bunch of black dorks. yeah... probably can't do much there

EDIT: Slow-Ninja'd.

[Morte]

Beast Within is a catch-all removal in your colors. Like for Swan Song, you turn the disadvantage into another enabler for Defense. Consider it at least as a sideboard cards against permanent hate (Ensnaring Bridge, Humility etc)

[Final Fortune]

Unless you base the deck around Defense of the Heart I think you're just playing a worse version of Sneak Attack, it really takes a lot to get Defense of the Heart to go off.

[Squirrel]

Deck with Cabal therapy seem like really bad matchups.

[Dr. No Face]

Thanks everyone for the suggestions that you provided!

[nudon]

Unless you base the deck around Defense of the Heart I think you're just playing a worse version of Sneak Attack, it really takes a lot to get Defense of the Heart to go off.

I agree with this. I think you should focus on Defense of the Heart and just tutor for Triskelion and Mikaeus, the Unhallowed to win.

[Darkenslight]

I agree with this. I think you should focus on Defense of the Heart and just tutor for Triskelion and Mikaeus, the Unhallowed to win.

How do you beat graveyard hate with that combo? MY suggestions would be Xenagos-Emrakul/Blightsteel Colossus and Kiki-Exarch, with your combo/control choices being Iona and Blazing Archon, depending on the matchup, though undoubtedly others will come up with better cards.

[GoboLord]

This is the perfect deck for Varchild's War-Riders.


Also, the "hunted" creatures from the first Ravnica block. Hunted Phantasm and the like...

[nudon]

How do you beat graveyard hate with that combo? MY suggestions would be Xenagos-Emrakul/Blightsteel Colossus and Kiki-Exarch, with your combo/control choices being Iona and Blazing Archon, depending on the matchup, though undoubtedly others will come up with better cards.

Trisk/Mike may not be the best win-con but the point was to have only 2 dead cards (Xenagos-Emrakul or Kiki-Exarch) as opposed to being a worse sneak and show deck. Xenagos-Emrakul is probably best suggestion so far. I think the best route is to go UGx control combo. Black splash because gives access to DRS's drain ability, while also accelerating the deck and gaining life to stay alive prior to the combo. White is also an option due to enlightened tutor.

[bruizar]

Love how good swan song is in the mirror :). Also, Terastodon is sort of nice with Xenagos, as you can destroy 3 permanents, double his power and trample through the tokens, or simply drop 9*2+3*3=27 power on the table with xenagos. It also combines well with emrakul in the cases where ensnaring bridge prevents you from getting through, or where Jace can bounce your emrakul.

[Darkenslight]

Love how good swan song is in the mirror :). Also, Terastodon is sort of nice with Xenagos, as you can destroy 3 permanents, double his power and trample through the tokens, or simply drop 9*2+3*3=27 power on the table with xenagos. It also combines well with emrakul in the cases where ensnaring bridge prevents you from getting through, or where Jace can bounce your emrakul.

Which is why it's Xenagos and not another 'one-turn-kill' dude. In addition, Xenagos can't be targeted by Swords unless you are so far ahead you may as well have won, but it can still be searched out by Defense.

[bruizar]

Which is why it's Xenagos and not another 'one-turn-kill' dude. In addition, Xenagos can't be targeted by Swords unless you are so far ahead you may as well have won, but it can still be searched out by Defense.

I didn't explain it but i was referring to a third creature that works optimally both with xenagos and with emrakul, in case you draw into either one of them. Xenagos + emrakul + terastodon. I like that better than running 2 separate two card combos that don't combine well together such as exarch and kiki jiki. Swords is a problem with terastodon though. Im not entirely sold on SNT. Requires way too many creature slots.. You get a lot of room back by cutting 3 emrakul and 4 show and tells. The whole idea behind oath is running such a small combo package..

[NiRVeS]

The idea seems intersting enough, and definitely fun to explore a bit. It'll probably end up being a worse Show & tell/Eureka variant, but what's Legacy if not the prime format to d!ck around with some funky old cards.

Anyway, just a small remark: Kiki-Jiki, Emrakul, Griselbrand, Iona and Mikeas all get bounced by Karakas. I think it would be wise to include at least something which can win vs that card. Just a single Ashen Rider would go a long way. Also pretty devastating when you fetch up a Resto Angel (or Kiki-Jiki) next to it. Terrastodon is also an option I like.

[Dr. No Face]

You get a lot of room back by cutting 3 emrakul and 4 show and tells. The whole idea behind oath is running such a small combo package.

The difference between this deck and Oath is that Oath can only afford to run the creatures it wants to get into play because there is a random chance associated with its effect. Defense, on the other hand, allows you to tutor up two creatures which insta-win for you.

[FTW]

The difference between this deck and Oath is that Oath can only afford to run the creatures it wants to get into play because there is a random chance associated with its effect. Defense, on the other hand, allows you to tutor up two creatures which insta-win for you.

This. Also, Oath costs 1G and is easier to activate while Defense requires significantly many more hoops to jump through. That means that a plan B seems prudent. Doesn't need to be Show and Tell. But some sort of plan that synergizes with the existing combo slots. Maybe Natural Order?

[bruizar]

I've actually had a list very similar to this sleeved up when swan song was just released, although my list wasn't that clean. Defense of the Heart is a worst version of sneak attack if you're going to build a deck with redundant bombs anyway. Sneak Attack doesn't require your opponent to have 3 creatures in play and gives haste. The only way I see DotH have a place in legacy is if you're going to cut your threats down to 4 defense of the heart and 2 creatures, PERHAPS a third in case one of them ends up in your hand. Otherwise, I'd just play sneak n show or omnitell variants.

ps: I also tried Natural Order, including with EOT Fetch for dryad arbor. It wasn't competitive enough, but perhaps you can come up with a better solution

[Darkenslight]

This. Also, Oath costs 1G and is easier to activate while Defense requires significantly many more hoops to jump through. That means that a plan B seems prudent. Doesn't need to be Show and Tell. But some sort of plan that synergizes with the existing combo slots. Maybe Natural Order?

I'd go R/G and run Sneak Attack and/or Through the Breach.

[FTW]

I'd go R/G and run Sneak Attack and/or Through the Breach.

But that involves running a high density of creatures. Others were arguing the whole point of a tutor engine like Defense is to run only 2-3 fatties, saving dead slots. Sneak cards need a higher density of fatties. At that point, why not just play G/U with Show and Tell instead and get better cantrips? Otherwise I think plan B should be something that doesn't drop a fatty from hand. Could just be beatdown.

[cherub_daemon]

How do you beat graveyard hate with that combo? MY suggestions would be Xenagos-Emrakul/Blightsteel Colossus and Kiki-Exarch, with your combo/control choices being Iona and Blazing Archon, depending on the matchup, though undoubtedly others will come up with better cards.

Since Defense of the Heart goes off during the upkeep, what about Laboratory Maniac and Leveler? No attack step, doesn't target, no graveyard required, but kinda vulnerable. You'd need draw ready in case someone goes after Maniac before the draw step, which is definitely going to happen. Might have to tweak the draw package to be all instant + Top, and maybe run Remand as an additional counter.

[Dr. No Face]

Since Defense of the Heart goes off during the upkeep, what about Laboratory Maniac and Leveler? No attack step, doesn't target, no graveyard required, but kinda vulnerable. You'd need draw ready in case someone goes after Maniac before the draw step, which is definitely going to happen. Might have to tweak the draw package to be all instant + Top, and maybe run Remand as an additional counter.

I would, but as you said, the combo is vulnerable, and if I don't have a counterspell in hand to protect the combo, I flat out lose. Thanks for suggesting!

[cherub_daemon]

I would, but as you said, the combo is vulnerable, and if I don't have a counterspell in hand to protect the combo, I flat out lose. Thanks for suggesting!

That isn't entirely true, since instant draw also "protects" the combo--good thing, too, given the existence of Abrupt Decay. I feel like being able to run a lot of draw as protection is a nice feature, rather than having to run bounce. But yes, the fact that it can kill you is an issue, and there are very few matchups where it will be better than Kiki/Exarch (Enchantress, mostly).

[IzexD]

That isn't entirely true, since instant draw also "protects" the combo--good thing, too, given the existence of Abrupt Decay. I feel like being able to run a lot of draw as protection is a nice feature, rather than having to run bounce. But yes, the fact that it can kill you is an issue, and there are very few matchups where it will be better than Kiki/Exarch (Enchantress, mostly).

The lab maniac combo is also good against death and taxes or any deck with karakus, you just need to be sure to have a brainstorm handy in case of removal. Although that and decks like enchantress are the only decks I would board that in.

[kavaki]

So not only is Xenagod in the deck, but it actually is a key to victory. The hell is up with that? Its pretty sweet however when you really look at it.

Im wondering when you bring in Kiki-Angel. What match-ups do you want it in?

[Dr. No Face]

The lab maniac combo is also good against death and taxes or any deck with karakus, you just need to be sure to have a brainstorm handy in case of removal. Although that and decks like enchantress are the only decks I would board that in.

True, guess I didn't think of it like that. Alright, I'll replace kiki-angel out of side for that.

[IzexD]

Update:
The deck is just about undefeated, 12 counters is good against any everything besides dredge and after board the match gets a hell of a lot better.

[kavaki]

Update:
The deck is just about undefeated, 12 counters is good against any everything besides dredge and after board the match gets a hell of a lot better.

I played it vs. ANT yesterday. Guy knew ANT but was out of practice.

G1: Brainstorm into Iona EOT, turns out he had a tutor in hand and would of won had I not done that.

G2: I didnt know how to side, so I cut Defense as it seemed a little too slow and put in Leyline and Nihil Spellbomb (I was playing 14 sb as I couldnt find any others). I drew into a fast hand, without Leyline though. It was force, SnT, Grisel, Pierce, city, fetch and preordain. T1 duress into force, T2 duress into pierce, T3 SnT into Grisel, with him dropping in Swarm. He passed back and I decided to swing. He stormed off next turn, but could only go for 20.

[NeZ]

Nice concept, especially the idea of Xenagos in Legacy. I would laugh my ass off if Emrakul is stopped by a bird token though.

[kavaki]

Nice concept, especially the idea of Xenagos in Legacy. I would laugh my ass off if Emrakul is stopped by a bird token though.

Annihilator would usually take care of that. The decks that play enough permanents to get around that likely would of fufilled our requirements for 3 creatures. I see S.S. more for other combo match-ups as well as control match-ups. Its the same use as in other decks, except the drawback in here isnt really too much of one.