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View Full Version : Questions and ettiquette related to Mindslaver



Valtrix
04-21-2014, 02:36 AM
So, I'm starting to play mono-blue ton in modern, and Mindslaver is a very important part of that deck. However, quite obviously, Mindslaver has a very tricky effect and I just want to get some input about how to use this card as painlessly as possible, for me and my opponents. So, a few specific questions:

1) Can you look at somebody's sideboard while you're controlling their turn? I'm pretty sure you can, and have been told you can, but I just want to be absolutely certain since this I know it's going to be a touchy subject for some opponent's. If I could get a link to a relevant ruling on this, that would be great too.

2) How much do (or should) I instruct vs. actually doing? For example, do I take their hand and manually do things, or just have them play open faced and instruct them all the plays to make?

3) If I miss a trigger while controlling an opponent's turn, do I get a warning? For example, say I cast an opponent's Batterskull and then don't put a token in to play (or my opponent doesn't put one into play?) and then do something else. When a player does this under the normal rules this is considered a missed trigger and they don't get their token and get a warning (I believe). In this case, is this is a missed trigger and a warning for me? If my opponent points the trigger out to me, am I forced to resolve it and I don't get a warning in this case? I certainly don't plan on trying to abuse anything here, but I just am curious how the tournament rules apply here. (And to make sure one couldn't actually abuse this!)

4) Is there anything else I should be aware about when using Mindslaver?

syfilisx
04-21-2014, 04:56 AM
From Mindslaver Gatherer entry:
You can see everything that player can see but you normally could not. This includes that player's hand, face-down creatures, his or her sideboard, and any cards in his or her library that he or she looks at.

Beatusnox
04-21-2014, 09:17 AM
If you have a hard lock established with mindslaver you can request to short cut it and just end the game. Remember it is only a request and afaik, you can be forced to play it out.

cdr
04-21-2014, 10:55 PM
Here's the rules for controlling players: http://www.yawgatog.com/resources/magic-rules/#R712

Sideboards are covered under 712.4, being able to see everything they can.

Just like any time you touch someone else's cards, ask first. Either way is fine rules-wise.

Triggers are still the responsibility of the controller. You are not responsible for triggers you don't control, and if your opponent misses a trigger you have the option of either making the trigger happen or saying nothing.

HammerAndSickled
04-21-2014, 11:25 PM
Your opponent can always concede at any time to deprive you of information, as well.

Arsenal
04-22-2014, 10:49 AM
Triggers are still the responsibility of the controller. You are not responsible for triggers you don't control, and if your opponent misses a trigger you have the option of either making the trigger happen or saying nothing.

Under a Mindslaver, are you considered the "controller" of your opponent's spells/permanents for that turn?

PirateKing
04-22-2014, 10:55 AM
712.3. Only control of the player changes. All objects are controlled by their normal controllers. A player who's being controlled during his or her turn is still the active player.

The controlled player still is the controller of their stuff, so they are responsible for their own triggers. The controlling player is able to choose targets for triggered abilities and stuff, but the controlled player is still obligated to maintain their game state.

Arsenal
04-22-2014, 10:57 AM
Ah. Got it.

TsumiBand
04-22-2014, 11:06 AM
Under a Mindslaver, are you considered the "controller" of your opponent's spells/permanents for that turn?

Basically the relationship between announcing triggers and player interaction does not change during a Mindslaver turn. Player A is being controlled by Player B, and Dark Confidant should trigger; if Player A does not 'demonstrate awareness' of the trigger, Player B is still in a position to remind Player A of the trigger. Responsibility hasn't changed hands, and in fact the spirit of the ruling remains the same regardless of recent changes or effects such as Mindslaver - both players are responsible for tracking the game state.

GnuHouse
04-23-2014, 04:56 PM
This would be the appropriate use and etiquette for Mindslaver

http://24.media.tumblr.com/2ad1ce81d6052347f3673463f4f80a26/tumblr_n44791EUqm1s9rpajo1_r2_500.gif

Valtrix
04-26-2014, 12:13 AM
What things am I legally allowed to shortcut once I have enough mana to cast mindslaver and activate every turn?

1) Can I keep ruins + 13 mana tapped every turn to indicate that I will keep casting slaver? (Without physically having to go through the motion of untapping my lands.)

2) Can I say that in every upkeep I will just tap all my opponent's lands and do nothing with the mana? (And thus leaving them tapped from turn to turn, so being able to not have to physically have to go through the tapping and untapping motions.)

cdr
04-26-2014, 10:16 AM
What things am I legally allowed to shortcut once I have enough mana to cast mindslaver and activate every turn?

1) Can I keep ruins + 13 mana tapped every turn to indicate that I will keep casting slaver? (Without physically having to go through the motion of untapping my lands.)

2) Can I say that in every upkeep I will just tap all my opponent's lands and do nothing with the mana? (And thus leaving them tapped from turn to turn, so being able to not have to physically have to go through the tapping and untapping motions.)

Sure, under the normal rules for establishing shortcuts. Play it out normally the first time, and explain to your opponent that you're establishing a shortcut for every future turn.