Why does Standstill see no play?

[Erdvermampfa]

I have been wondering why the card has fallen into oblivion, for the current meta actually provides a comparatively welcome enviroment for the card. Standstill had been dismissed when the format was rife with Aether Vials, Mutavaults and low-costed beater such as Wild Nacatl, Kird Ape and Goblin Lackey. However, the circumstances have changed significantly, neither Aether Vial nor Mutavaults are played frequently or even at all. The only popular deck playing Vial is Death and Taxes and even that has been on decline for some time now as far as I know. Mutavaults haven't seen much play since Merfolk was pushed out of the format. And as for the low-costed beaters, one has to note the former ones have basically been replaced by new ones fullfilling their role (e.g. Delver of Secrets and Deathrite Shaman instead of Wild Nacatl and perhaps Vial?), so it seems wrong to think that Standstill got worse due to the alleged rise of low-costed threats in general.

Of course I do have my assumptions about the general absence of Standstill in the current format, some of them are rather superficial while some other possible reasons are kind of subtile. To give some impulses to the debate, I give a few conceivable reasons:

- On itself, Standstill doesn't directly contribute to the execution of a strategy. For a control deck, it is of the utmost importance to have answers to a preferably wide range of strategies and threats. In past few years, the format and its threats have diversified and it has become hard to cover all decks, strategies, threats and combinations that you might have to compete against. It is really hard to address both Stoneforge.decs, Counterbalance, Delver, Shrouded Creatures (TNN/Mongoose) and Storm Combo, Punishing Fire and graveyard strategies. For this reason, control decks have become very tight and almost every card has to serve as an answer. However, because this still doesn't suffice, people have resorted to cards that have very flexible applications, e.g. Counterbalance and Cunning Wish. Standstill isn't an answer to anything and often feels like a win-more card. If you're on a aggro-control deck, it's often better to just draw more creatures than Standstill, which, as I said, doesn't contribute to your strategy on itself.

- If you're playing a control deck (which you are most likely if you consider SS), it obliges you to play a very vulnerable manabase. This has always been the case, but the issue has become more severe, for threats and tempo strategies have become way more efficient, mainly due to the existence of Delver of Secrets. Getting wastelanded prevents you from casting your answers while you're getting into critical range of direct damage (Bolt and Shaman) and threats being more efficient than in the past. The necessity of playing manlands (and probably also some Wasteland and extra duals to compensate the lots of colorless mana) and the suspectibiliy to land desctruction alone is probably another reason why people abstain from using Standstill.


- It doesn't seem too off that people simply neglect Standstill simply because of the reason that their is currently no deck that does well at known tournaments. It is well-known that most Players just play what has been successful in major Events or what has been acknowledged to be taken seriously.




I appreciate every comment and hope that we can have a productive discussion on this subject.

[HammafistRoob]

Standstill definitely has issues in the format these days. You touched on one of the biggest reasons, in my opinion, why it sees practically no play. The fact that it isn't an answer to anything, means it's close to a dead draw if you're behind on board. That has always been the case, but with decks being as streamlined and consistent as they are these days, you can only afford so many situational cards. The building restraints it places on you can also be pretty painful, mainly the manabase thing you mentioned.

It is still a powerful card with some ridiculous potential. For example playing either Sensei's Top, Delver, or Aether Vial turn 1 followed by a resolved Standstill is most likely game over. So I'm not too sure of this question either actually, like I said it is situational but very powerful.

[Megadeus]

Delver is probably a huge reason. I did enjoy playing Dreadstill and going T1 delver into standstill though. That was an almost unbeatable opening, especially if I herp derp blind flip the delver.

T1 Island, Delver
T2 Flip delver, Mishras Factory, Standstill attack for 3. Suddenly you are on a 3 turn clock with a standstill in play. Good luck.

[HammafistRoob]

Dreadstill 4lyfe dawg!

After thinking about it a little more, I think Jace is another big thing going against Standstill. He's a CA engine, stall piece, and wincon all in one. All that without having to play awkward turtle manabases.

[Megadeus]

Also an uncounterable answer in decay gives them a way that you cant interact with to kill the threat. Not amazing, but it is relevant.

[wcm8]

There are various reasons:

1-drop threats: Delver, Deathrite Shaman, Nimble Mongoose, Goblin Lackey, Goblin Guide, Mother of Runes, Aether Vial, etc.
Flash creatures in response to casting Standstill: Snapcaster Mage, Vendilion Clique, Aven Mindcensor, Scryb Ranger, Sulfur Elemental, etc.
Man-Lands: Mishra's Factory (often played by the Standstill player), Creeping Tarpit
Combo decks that don't really care if you draw 3 cards since they can just sit back and play draw-go and sculpt the perfect hand and beat you regardless

Players also seem to know how to 'play around' it -- either waiting to break it at the end of your turn via Brainstorm, or just breaking it immediately if need be.

Because Standstill generally needs the deck to be built around it, this often forces you into playing some form of plodding control, often UWx or UBx, occasionally URx. These type of decks aren't always the best choice against the current Legacy metagame. BUG control decks are typically going to opt for Ancestral Vision (with the aid of Shardless Agent) as their card advantage engine.

In Vintage, you can often go Island -> Mox -> Standstill on turn 1. That line of play isn't really available in Legacy, and there are also far more decks with 1-drop threats. Ponder is often just the better card selection spell since it doesn't require any special setup and can be played when you're behind in board presence. Too often Standstill is a "win more" form of card advantage. Legacy is simply too fast right now to make a Standstill deck the best.

[dsck]

BUG standstill (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?9413-Deck-UBGx-Landstill&p=793902&viewfull=1#post793902) is good, problem is if you arent very good you get draws easily (more easily than miracles even). Then theres the budget problem, this deck is one of the most expensive decks in legacy to build.

[btm10]

Also an uncounterable answer in decay gives them a way that you cant interact with to kill the threat. Not amazing, but it is relevant.

If that were the only issue, wouldn't Misdirection or Divert be enough to salvage the deck? Decks with Decay generally run Decay-able cards, and many decks with Standstill run things like Top and Sylvan Library to smooth their draws under Standstill. The Top/MisD interaction seems especially profitable as an answer to "Decay your threat" under Standstill. Also AD doesn't kill True-Name Nemesis.

BUG or UWx Control lists do seem to be the natural home for the card as others have pointed out, especially now that Shardless seems to be past its prime. Maybe it'll make a comeback as non-Shardless BUG control gets optimized.

[AngryTroll]

Deathrite Shaman and Delver are two pretty huge problems. In the old days, you could cast a Standstill against an unthresh-ed Nimble Mongoose or a 1/2 Tarmogoyf, because you had plenty of time to find a Mishra's Factory to stop the threat. That doesn't work against a Delver or Death and Taxes' Aether Vials, and it doesn't work against a Stoneforge Mystic if they were on the play.

I did love playing Dreadstill with Delvers, Dreadnoughts, and Standstills. That deck was awesome. The old UW Standstill lists are still what I picture as a real Legacy Control deck (although they are looooong gone, replaced by Miracles).

[rufus]

Also an uncounterable answer in decay gives them a way that you cant interact with to kill the threat. Not amazing, but it is relevant.

Can you elaborate? (Targeting Standstill with Abrupt Decay just seems silly to me.)

[H]

Can you elaborate? (Targeting Standstill with Abrupt Decay just seems silly to me.)

I am pretty sure he meant if you go Theat + Standstill, they can Decay the Threat unless you draw Misdirection off the Standstill.

I actually played Landstill at SCG Dallas a few weeks ago to a decent record, but Standstill was alternately the best and worst card in the deck.

[lyracian]

Can you elaborate? (Targeting Standstill with Abrupt Decay just seems silly to me.)

While standstill is on the stack they respond with Decay to kill your delver
Then both players just have lands

[Megadeus]

Reading is obviously nota strength. I said decay as a way to kill the threat. Not the standstill.

And divert is a less good answer, because you preferably drop the standstill on T2 when they have no threat (no other legal target). Alternatively if they do have a threat, you could simply make land drops and pay for the divert

[Megadeus]

I guess in older land still decks, the threat is factory, which can't be decayed, I'm just thinking of the delver into standstill scenario

[rufus]

Reading is obviously nota strength. I said decay as a way to kill the threat. Not the standstill. ...

Thanks. Because of context I was thinking "the threat of standstill."

[nedleeds]

I have been wondering why the card has fallen into oblivion

Being on the draw vs.

http://magiccards.info/scans/en/isd/51b.jpg

a 3/2 thing that costs 1, flies over and races your Factories ... also the decks playing the stupid thing have 4 Wastelands also ... sometimes they just win the game with no permanents except the naturally flipped flying landless nacatyl.

http://magiccards.info/scans/en/ds/91.jpg

this is a problem also ...

Stillstand is great when you get it set up but it's become exceedingly difficult to get it setup with daze/delver decks making up half the legacy world ... Even on the play because tapping out to direct a bolt at a turn 1 delver is a risky play.

Edit: what tusk disciple megadeus said

[Greenpoe]

Sylvan Library = Better Standstill ? Herp derp pay 12 life = draw 3 cards (over the course of a few turns though)

[sdematt]

Different, I'd say.

Sylvan allows you to play cards and filter/draw, whereas Standstill leaves you topdecking (unless you've got Top) and prevents you from getting any further ahead by hoping your opponent cracks it and you draw 3. But, there's many times you can't drop it Turn 2, and it turns into a "I'm going to draw 3 when you bolt my Factory," which sometimes can be good enough.

It's slow, it's conditional, and it has been outclassed in recent years. I want to play this, but its only home recently is BUG Landstill.

-Matt

[Esper3k]

The T2 SFM is also problematic for Standstill (on the draw) for the same reason Aether Vial screws things up.

[H]

The T2 SFM is also problematic for Standstill (on the draw) for the same reason Aether Vial screws things up.

Yeah, that is why I (and Nastaboi) have taken to running Disfigure, Thoughtseize, and Spell Snare in our Landstill decks.

My simpleton opinion of Standstill (which is probably largely too simple) is that it can convert your slightly better board position into Card Advantage. Playing it at parity is very dicey and could end up losing you the game, unless you know full well what you are up against or have the man lands in hand.

The problem I have found after a few months of playing with it isn't actually Delver, or Vial, per se. It is the random other decks, like Elves or Burn (or even worse UR Burn).

[twndomn]

Standstill is a card that REQUIRES you to be Even at tempo, or Leading in tempo. It also renders Brainstorm dead if you have it in play.

Decks that can utilize Standstill:
1. Merfolk
2. Dread Still
3. BUG Still
4. Affinity

Notice how these decks are either Aggro or Combo, this is because they can take the tempo lead early, or be even with the opponent.

[Megadeus]

Never heard of it in Affinity, but it seems pretty sick.

[Aesir]

Standstill is a card that REQUIRES you to be Even at tempo, or Leading in tempo. It also renders Brainstorm dead if you have it in play.

Decks that can utilize Standstill:
1. Merfolk
2. Dread Still
3. BUG Still
4. Affinity

Notice how these decks are either Aggro or Combo, this is because they can take the tempo lead early, or be even with the opponent.

Is there any record of Standstill Affinity doing well? Sounds like a fun idea. Now I'm curious...

[Yan]

Tried it about a year a go. Also included Ninja of the Deep Hours (which is sick under Standstill too, Ornithopter into Standstill = sure). Ultimately it fell short of being amazing. It has some potential to be explosive but most of the time you are better of playing real cards in the place of Ornithopters and such. And anyway it was no where near as good as DreadStill :P I got the idea from some Affinity thread in here, might post a link later if I find it.

EDIT, found: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?25580-Blue-Lagoon-an-Affinity-deck-that-isn-t-terrible&highlight=affinity

[Rood]

Standstill is a busted card. The problem these days is there's only a limited number of decks that can abuse this beast to it's full extent...all of which are unpopular decks atm. But the card itself is really strong and can be well positioned in any metagame if you build around it.

[Lemnear]

Standstill is a busted card. The problem these days is there's only a limited number of decks that can abuse this beast to it's full extent...all of which are unpopular decks atm. But the card itself is really strong and can be well positioned in any metagame if you build around it.

Build around Standstill in a metagame defined by Delver, SFM, DRS, SCM and Clique will backfire too often, leaving you wishing the card actually does something for 2 mana. I don't even want to talk about how well-documented it is how to play around Standstill from the start

[Dark Ritual]

Build around Standstill in a metagame defined by Delver, SFM, DRS, SCM and Clique will backfire too often, leaving you wishing the card actually does something for 2 mana. I don't even want to talk about how well-documented it is how to play around Standstill from the start

People haven't played against it in quite a while so they have no clue how to play against it. They don't know whether to crack it immediately, play a waiting game, etc. etc.

Standstill is poorly positioned against tempo decks. Namely delver of secrets as public enemy number 1 against it. Hell deathrite shaman put quite a damper on the card as well.

Agree that it's a busted card though. Anything that draws 3 for 2 or less is pretty insane typically if utilized correctly.

[Lord Seth]

Standstill is a card that REQUIRES you to be Even at tempo, or Leading in tempo. It also renders Brainstorm dead if you have it in play.

Decks that can utilize Standstill:
1. Merfolk
2. Dread Still
3. BUG Still
4. Affinity

Notice how these decks are either Aggro or Combo, this is because they can take the tempo lead early, or be even with the opponent.I wouldn't classify Dreadstill as aggro or combo; it's really more of a tempo deck that happens to have a combo in it.