Dread Return Griselbrand vs. Karakas???

[Shipp]

I'm competing in my first legacy tourney this weekend and was wondering how to properly navigate an on board Karakas so I can resolve griselbrands ability to dredge my deck? For example, when I dread return griselbrand, can my opponent respond by sending him back to my hand? Or do I still have priority? What about when I go to activate his ability? If I pay the life and try respond by using Karakas, do I still lose the life and not get the cards??

[Megadeus]

Wrong forum, and it goes like this.

Dread Return brings back Griselbrand
You have a Flying Yawgs Bargain. You pay life and activate.
He karakas your bargain.
Griselbrand goes to hand.
You dont care because you now draw 7.
Your opponent probably dies.

[Shipp]

Oh ok, which thread do these kind of questions go under? And wouldn't Karakas ability go on stack? That's where my confusion came from.

[Megadeus]

Card Interactions and Rulings. And yes, the karakas trigger goes on the stack, however griselbrands ability is already on the stack. So Karakas trigger resolves abd sends him to hand, then his draw 7 resolves and you dredge your deck.

Alternatively if you pass priority for some reason, and an opponent Karakas your griselbrand, since it is a trigger that goes on the stack, you can most certainly respond to it and draw

[Esper3k]

Just to nitpick, but Karakas isn't a triggered ability, but an activated ability. Regardless, the result is still the same.

[Megadeus]

Uh, yeah bad wording on my part there.

[MaximumC]

Wrong forum, and it goes like this.

Dread Return brings back Griselbrand
You have a Flying Yawgs Bargain. You pay life and activate.
He karakas your bargain.
Griselbrand goes to hand.
You dont care because you now draw 7.
Your opponent probably dies.

One key point that I didn't understand when I first started playing was that your opponent cannot "respond" to something entering the battlefield on your side of the board. When Grislebrand hits the battlefield in this example, the stack is empty and it is your turn. Therefore, YOU have priority and the opponent cannot do diddly squat. You give him a chance to do something only when you put something on the stack or announce the end of your phase.

So here, a better analysis is this:

1. You cast Dread Return / Animate Dead / Whatever. It goes on the stack. Opponent cannot activate Karakas because there is no legal target in play at this point, so he passes priority and Dread Return resolves.

2. Dread Return's effect puts Grislebrand back onto the battlefield and then Dread Return goes to the graveyard. At this point the stack is empty and it is your turn, so you have priority. Until you relinquish it, your opponent still cannot activate Karakas.

3. You put an activation of Grislebrand's ability on the stack. You can retain priority to do something else if you like, for example, activating Griselbrand a second time, cracking a fetch, casting brainstorm, whatever. Once you are done, you pass priority to your opponent. NOW they can put an activation of Karakas onto the stack if they wish.

4. Once both players are done putting stuff on the stack, it resolves in LIFO order. So, under the simpliest formulation (one GB activation and one K activation), first the Karakas resolves and puts Griselbrand into your hand, then Grislebrand's ability resolves and you draw cards.

[cdr]

Excellent explanation, MaximumC.