EDH ideas, help me to decide.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

Ok, so I'm bored with Legacy, and a friend of mine who plays an awful highlander deck (it did cost im less than 100 USD) reminded me of that cry-babies format called EDH/Commander. Needless to say, I'm completely ashamed that I even think about building the 100-cards deck, not to mention I already guess I won't play it too often. However, it's still better than nothing and I may always dismantle the deck.
I already thought about some build, I definitely don't want to spend more than fifty bucks on this affair, maybe double the amount, but only in some very special case. I tinkered with some ideas for so long that I simply can't decide (oh, the joy of deck building; seriously, I hate this aspect of the game, I'd rather play chess draughts)

I'd like to read your opinions on the few choices I'm considering right now. Look, I even made a poll! Who wouldn't love to make an important vote? Who wouldn't love to make life decisions for other people? Enjoy...


Deck ideas:

1) 5Color Ramp Control aka 50 Bucks Solution

general:
Cromat or Atogatog (and maybe I may steal Progenitus from someone's binder, too)

lands:
5 Ice Age painlands
5 Tempest painlands
5 Apocalypse painlands
5 Invasion cipt duals
5 Coldsnap cipt duals
5 Zendikar cipt duals
5 Shards of Alara triplelands
5 utility lands

artifact mana:
10 signets
10 other rocks

titans:
1 Primeval
1 Sundering

others:
48 cheap ass brutal cards*
1 card for that other format that uses 101 cards instead of 100


*) like any kind of WoG, any kind of targeted removal, lots of creatures with etb triggers, some interesting equipment (Skullclamp and the two seven-league boots), Erratic Portal and the EP no.2, some draw, etc., you know the stuff.

pros: 5 colors, nice lands
cons: boring idea, slow deck



2) Esper Blackblade aka One Hundred Brilliant Questions

general:
Dakkon Blackblade

lands:
35 WUB lands
some utility lands

artifact mana:
10 Esper rocks

flying nacatls:
about 20 sphinxes*

ultimata:
Brilliant Ultimatum

Thopter combo:
yes

others:
count to 100; mostly removal, blinks, counters and such

*) alternatively all 31, but some of them suck hard.
pros: funny tribe, three colors only
cons: three colors only, funny tribe



3) Haters Gonna Hate

general:
whoever, lets say Mayael the Anima if I wish to play red, but Rhys the Redeemed is also good, as is Tolsimir Wolfblood

lands:
35 Naya lands
5 strip mines
some utility lands?

rock and ramp:
10

mass (land) destruction:
30 mass destruction spells*

creatures:
yes

*) Primitive Justice and Builder's Bane and Decimate and Hull Breach and Calming Verse and Rout and Armageddon and Wildfire and Cataclysm and Ruination and Global Ruin and Shattering Spree and w/e.

pros: very brutal deck
cons: might get punched into teeth

Alternatively I may keep the color combination but switch the idea to my (never finished) Rheingold.dec you may find here. (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?26834-EDH-Das-Rheingold-%28work-in-process%29)



Discuss.

[Offler]

a) 5 color deck
Those are usually most expensive decks, since you can choose any card. People usually play old duals. Cromat is fine, but I would reccomend also Child of Alara with a lot of sac effects (on lands).

b) Dakkon Backblade
Interesting card. Only few players around try such old cards, but his effect is good even nowadays. Actually most games are quite long to have more than 20 lands. WUB is also nice combination for strong control, with fast card drawing. If you plan sphinxes you can find really interesting mix of creatures (such as Magister Sphinx).

I really like the idea...

c) The idea seems bit incomplete... Mass destroy you say...
Try Zur the enchanter and cards like Humility, Solitary confinement, Contamination, Necropotence. People will love it :D

[Bed Decks Palyer]

a) 5 color deck
Those are usually most expensive decks, since you can choose any card. People usually play old duals. Cromat is fine, but I would reccomend also Child of Alara with a lot of sac effects (on lands).

b) Dakkon Backblade
Interesting card. Only few players around try such old cards, but his effect is good even nowadays. Actually most games are quite long to have more than 20 lands. WUB is also nice combination for strong control, with fast card drawing. If you plan sphinxes you can find really interesting mix of creatures (such as Magister Sphinx).

I really like the idea...

c) The idea seems bit incomplete... Mass destroy you say...
Try Zur the enchanter and cards like Humility, Solitary confinement, Contamination, Necropotence. People will love it :D

The third choice seems th most silly and bad. After all, nobody is interested in mass destruction games, where there nothing happens, just people stare at empty board.

I've chosen Dakkon Blackblade mostly because he's pretty cool and I didn't want to use too obvious general for an UWB Sphinx deck, read: Sharuum. I cannot decide on the number of sphinxes, because there are 31 of them which is too many to use all of them, but not that many to not use all of them. Yes, some of them are weak, but this should be a pubdeck, so there's no reason to be extremely cautious aboutthe card choices.
I also thought about a compromise, to use the best five to ten sphinxes and then feed the deck with control elements. I think it's the best approach, as the funny factor of thirty-one sphinxes won't outweight the fact that I'll be losing game after game with them. There are lots of counterspells, removal and discard/exile in this color combination, so it could definitely end as a quite strong deck, at least speaking of a crap pile with no real power in it.
Another possible compromise is to use say five best sphinxes, five best dragons, etc., basically something in each color with a powerful effect, be it p/t, etb trigger or w/e. I mean even sidegrade this to the 5 Color deck but less predictable (less usual control choices, more beats).

Maybe I'm just too serious about the whole thing. It's not like the decks would cost that much, so why shold I not build the two of them, a Sphinx one and the five colours insanity? I like the idea of fully non-basic, fully multi-colored manabase with lots of artifact ramp into bombs (and I'm serious about the bombiness, no wannabe stuff, but Identity Crisis, Plague Winds, Sundering Titan, Pathrazer of Ulamog, Conflux, Cruel Ultimatum, Decimate, etc.) that either end the game on their own or at least move me really further, but I similarly like the elegance of a Tribal Wars Classic: Sphinxes with Dakkon as the lion tamer. :smile:

I'll think about these two ideas a bit more. After all it's not like Magic is finished today, and there will be more and more weak sphinxes that will dilute the power of their tribe, so some of them will stay in reserve no matter what. As such, I shouldn't mourn that I'll use only the best of them.

The 5C_EDH should be more like a funny project. For now I may simply throw into it the most powerful cards I own, and improve the list over the time.

[Davran]

FWIW, both Sundering and Primeval Titan are banned per the "official" ban list...so you'll need some other fat if you end up taking the 5C route.

[Ace/Homebrew]

cry-babies format called EDH/Commander.
I'm completely ashamed that I even think about building the 100-cards deck, not to mention I already guess I won't play it too often.
I definitely don't want to spend more than fifty bucks on this affair.
Dude, spend $30 bucks on a pre-con...

[Bed Decks Palyer]

FWIW, both Sundering and Primeval Titan are banned per the "official" ban list...so you'll need some other fat if you end up taking the 5C route.

Strange. I don't see them here:
http://duelcommander.com/banlist/
But thanks for reminding me what I dislike about the format - the fragmentation of EDH/singleton/Commander community. I definitely expect they're banned elsewhere. :frown:
Ok, I'll try to find some other fatties, maybe I'll stick to the Sphinxes-only idea.



Dude, spend $30 bucks on a pre-con...
What a helpful post and what a splendid idea! Thanks, I completely forgot that those pre-constructed decks exist. Do they still put foils into them? I love foils.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

Ok, for now I'll stick to the Sphinxes. I don't have any idea how to build a five-color deck, moreover it'll be too similar to the one that my friend plays. Sphinxes look cool and I will need far less strange lands, so there will be much more place for a real stuff, be it sphinxes themselves, or the control stuff. I'll use Dakkon, although he sucks, but I don't want to use Sharuum, (s)he's too powerful.

So, lets say something like this:

lands:
35 Esper lands (some utility)

mana artifacts:
10 should be enough

creatures:
20 best sphinxes

control:
10 counterspells
15 removal
10 discard

the rest:
Equipments, tricks (like blinks, Er. Portals, etc.), some kind of draw (maybe not, most of the sphinxes do this)


Seems good. Shame that the best sphinx (Consecrated one) became so expensive. :mad:
Also, I'm not sure about counterspells. They don't answer resolved things and maybe I need just few of them to have them at ready when WoG is about to resolve. Same is true for discard, I'll use only the best available, I don't think it'll be ten cards at all.

[Ace/Homebrew]

I suggested buying a precon because of how much you hate deck-building and the self-admitted likelihood of you giving up on this format after a few games. I still think it is a good idea for you to buy Oloro, Ageless Ascetic and jam sphinxes into it.

Something that wasn't explicitly stated, but should be clarified, is if you will primarily be playing 1v1 or in pods of up to 4.
Discard isn't great in this format. It is better in 1v1, but still not great. If you want discard, I suggest cards that also build your board (Tidehollow Sculler, Bloodhusk Ritualist).
Same thing with counterspells... Drawing cards is usually going to be better (in a pod).
Scaling board wipes (like Black Sun's Zenith, Toxic Deluge, and Mutilate will be good because your sphinxes will survive a majority of the time.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

I suggested buying a precon because of how much you hate deck-building and the self-admitted likelihood of you giving up on this format after a few games. I still think it is a good idea for you to buy Oloro, Ageless Ascetic and jam sphinxes into it.

Something that wasn't explicitly stated, but should be clarified, is if you will primarily be playing 1v1 or in pods of up to 4.
Discard isn't great in this format. It is better in 1v1, but still not great. If you want discard, I suggest cards that also build your board (Tidehollow Sculler, Bloodhusk Ritualist).
Same thing with counterspells... Drawing cards is usually going to be better (in a pod).
Scaling board wipes (like Black Sun's Zenith, Toxic Deluge, and Mutilate will be good because your sphinxes will survive a majority of the time.

Once I got past the decision of WHAT to build, I'm quite fine with the deckbuilding. My trouble was that I was unable to decide what to brew. There are far too many possibilities, when there are 20k cards in MtG. Both 5colors deck and the Esper Blackblade have their positives. Also, why purchasing precon when I'll either got some of the cards or will lots of them throw away...

I don't like Oloro, Dakkon is definitely more cool. Otoh, Oloro is more powerful. Thanks for an advice.

By discard I meant things like Identity Crisis and such, cards that really make difference, definitely not Duress, of course. Esp. IC has the added bonus of stopping any gy based shenan... that word.
Speaking of counterspells, I still think that a few Dismiss-like spells that cantrip or w/e could be good. I definitely don't wanna lose my creatures to WoG.
Good idea on scaling mass removal that my dudes will survive thx to their high toughness. I'll also use the already mentioned Plague Wind and similar stuff. Austere Command looks good, too. Of all the sphinxes it would kill just Jelenn Sphinx and I'm definitely sure this one won't survive the initial phases of deck building... unless I'll go really crazy with the "all sphinxes available" idea, which I doubt, as half of them is not good enough even for the pubdeck.

Other than that, I don't see anything necessary. Sphinxes already draw cards, some kind of ramp is needed. There's lots of removal in WUB and some kind of tricks. Of all the equipment I'm considering the two haste shroud/hexproof boots, then of course Sword of the Meek (if it's legal) and Skullclamp (if Thopter Sword is legal). Erratic Portal, Crystal Shard, Equilibrium. Is it reasonable?

edit: What's the solid number of lands in tri-color deck with average cmc of... uhm... five? Lets say 35 lands and some 10 rocks?

[Davran]

Strange. I don't see them here:
http://duelcommander.com/banlist/
But thanks for reminding me what I dislike about the format - the fragmentation of EDH/singleton/Commander community. I definitely expect they're banned elsewhere. :frown:
Ok, I'll try to find some other fatties, maybe I'll stick to the Sphinxes-only idea.

Sorry, I didn't realize you were using the 1v1 (or "french") banlist. I'm not all that familiar with that format - so the titans may well be legal. If you're playing under the "official" multiplayer list over at mtgcommander.net and the mothership they're banned as hell though.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

Sorry, I didn't realize you were using the 1v1 (or "french") banlist. I'm not all that familiar with that format - so the titans may well be legal. If you're playing under the "official" multiplayer list over at mtgcommander.net and the mothership they're banned as hell though.

That's the trouble. Some of our lgs uses one list, the other one uses another. I think I'll simply shy away from any card that's on any of the banlists and I should be fine. Speaking of it, it looks like both Sword of the Meek and Skullclamp will stay in the binder.

I'm still undecided on the whole thing. I'd like to play the 10 painlads (or even 15 if I find the strength to bother with TMP ones), I like the many cipt lands and ALA triples, I like the signets. Also, 5 colors are funnier than three colors; moreover sphinxes-only deck would suck as - even if I stay true to Esper - I couldn't use the many really powerful etb creatures like Shriekmaw/Nekrataal, Mulldrifter, Draining Whelk, Ashen Rider, etc.
Otoh, the Sphinxes are cool and it could be a bit different EDH than my usual "throw as many etb dudes in that pile". Also, there's hardly any fun in a 100% 100-cards-to-100-cards remake of my friend's 5 Colors ETB.dec. :rolleyes:

Oh, the choices... :laugh:

Btw, is there anything similar to Lavalanche that would hit lands? I guess it isn't, as I would definitely know about such a powerful mass LD.

[Davran]

That's the trouble. Some of our lgs uses one list, the other one uses another. I think I'll simply shy away from any card that's on any of the banlists and I should be fine. Speaking of it, it looks like both Sword of the Meek and Skullclamp will stay in the binder.

I'm still undecided on the whole thing. I'd like to play the 10 painlads (or even 15 if I find the strength to bother with TMP ones), I like the many cipt lands and ALA triples, I like the signets. Also, 5 colors are funnier than three colors; moreover sphinxes-only deck would suck as - even if I stay true to Esper - I couldn't use the many really powerful etb creatures like Shriekmaw/Nekrataal, Mulldrifter, Draining Whelk, Ashen Rider, etc.
Otoh, the Sphinxes are cool and it could be a bit different EDH than my usual "throw as many etb dudes in that pile". Also, there's hardly any fun in a 100% 100-cards-to-100-cards remake of my friend's 5 Colors ETB.dec. :rolleyes:

Oh, the choices... :laugh:

Btw, is there anything similar to Lavalanche that would hit lands? I guess it isn't, as I would definitely know about such a powerful mass LD.

To be honest, if you're going to play both 1v1 and regular 4 man pod EDH, you might want two separate decks if you really expect to do well. To think of it differently, it's a lot like showing up to legacy night with your best standard brew. Sure, the cards are all legal...but you're not going to get very far when you're slinging Infiltration Lens vs. the other 3 guys and their Skullclamps.

You could always do something with Burning Sands and Lavalanche...or I guess just stick to good old Devastation and friends.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

To be honest, if you're going to play both 1v1 and regular 4 man pod EDH, you might want two separate decks if you really expect to do well. To think of it differently, it's a lot like showing up to legacy night with your best standard brew. Sure, the cards are all legal...but you're not going to get very far when you're slinging Infiltration Lens vs. the other 3 guys and their Skullclamps.

You could always do something with Burning Sands and Lavalanche...or I guess just stick to good old Devastation and friends.

Yes, this is what I understand. I n fact I plan to play the deck(s) only in a pub with few friends, so it's not like I need to win it all. I'd much rather have some interesting or unusual deck, even if it would be crappy. Moreover, I don't want to spend too much money on it, simply for the fun of having a cheap pile. It's like I'm missing any idea, and those I got are all quite weak. :frown:

[Offler]

Maybe I'm just too serious about the whole thing. It's not like the decks would cost that much, so why shold I not build the two of them, a Sphinx one and the five colours insanity? I like the idea of fully non-basic, fully multi-colored manabase with lots of artifact ramp into bombs (and I'm serious about the bombiness, no wannabe stuff, but Identity Crisis, Plague Winds, Sundering Titan, Pathrazer of Ulamog, Conflux, Cruel Ultimatum, Decimate, etc.) that either end the game on their own or at least move me really further, but I similarly like the elegance of a Tribal Wars Classic: Sphinxes with Dakkon as the lion tamer. :smile:


When I first attempted to play MTG I started with "German Highlander" and when people stated with EDH I was reluctant to play it, but later was clear that EDH is much more popular around.

My first deck:
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?20570-EDH-HL-Teferi-Mage-of-Zhalfir

Most people around were skilled in Type 2, and mostly were unable to understand why are some cards good regardless "obvious power level". The deck above is able to win in 1 turn on combo and causes headache. Teferi is quite popular commander.

My second deck:
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?20395-EDH-Anowon-The-ruin-sage

Anowon, the Ruin Sage isnt popular commander at all. Most people were recommending Olivia Voldaren or almost anything else, just not Anowon. This deck is the first non-combo I ever played and at some point it started to be very very effective. Especially when I added Sorin Markov, Temporal Extortion, Blood tribute, Quietus spike. I expected it will call some hate since people in "Type 2 playgroup" use to change game rules in a manner that Sorin change life to 20, while same group of people were convinced that they can win with early aggro gameplan...

Both these decks were quite cheap (with exception of one card in each of these).

After building the second one I realized that all you need is battleplan - to have an idea how to win. First deck provide multiple and creative ways how to archieve it, second provides mainly one way based on life.


Dakkon is interesting in similar way as my monoblack Anowon, but it allows more choices.

a) White and blue control
Counterspells, WoG, Planar Cleansings, Damnation and similar

b) Sphinxes
- Big creatures with flying
- Mostly at CMC 5+
This is similar to monoblack vampires I used. The main question what you will play in early game. In case of Anowon there are few smaller vampires, but mostly I have chosen some skeletons... But yes... Cats could be interesting in order to keep some flavor of the deck.

c) Major life loss
All black cards I used in anowon, + Magister Sphinx.

d) Evasion such as Rogue's Passage
Almost unusable in type 2, but I really appreciate this card in EDH.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

snip

Wow, this was one of a post! Lots of helpful information and quite some ideas! :eek:

I think I'll build both decks. It's not like I cannot spend a few more bucks here and there. I'll try to stay below 100 crowns per card, just because I like self-imposed limits.

For the 5 Color ETB Control pile I got an idea of a deck built around lots of creatures with etb triggers and several ways how to blnk them, be it Crystal Shards, Astral Slide and w/e. Not really original, but I like it, and it may be pleasure to play all those stinky big dudes with laughable mana cost and insane abilities.

The Sphinxes deck... this one I'll try to build first. I'll use whatever the control elements I already got with few reasonable additions, mostly removal. And, I finally solved my dilemma "should I play all sphinxes available?". I came unto a conclusion when I was taking a shower in my job and I nearly ran out naked screaming "Hypergenesis!". I will simply use only the best Sphinxes. Just because there are mere thirty of them isn't a reason for my confusion - I definitely wouldn't play all Elves as I clearly see that not all of them are good enough for any deck. Why should be the Sphinxes any different then? I may keep the deck for decades, so it's not like there will be no more flying additions.
And, I don't even think that the deck really needs some early pressure. (Although cats would be funny.) After all it'll be a control deck. :smile:


Díky za nápady a rady!

[Davran]

Wow, this was one of a post! Lots of helpful information and quite some ideas! :eek:

I think I'll build both decks. It's not like I cannot spend a few more bucks here and there. I'll try to stay below 100 crowns per card, just because I like self-imposed limits.

For the 5 Color ETB Control pile I got an idea of a deck built around lots of creatures with etb triggers and several ways how to blnk them, be it Crystal Shards, Astral Slide and w/e. Not really original, but I like it, and it may be pleasure to play all those stinky big dudes with laughable mana cost and insane abilities.

The Sphinxes deck... this one I'll try to build first. I'll use whatever the control elements I already got with few reasonable additions, mostly removal. And, I finally solved my dilemma "should I play all sphinxes available?". I came unto a conclusion when I was taking a shower in my job and I nearly ran out naked screaming "Hypergenesis!". I will simply use only the best Sphinxes. Just because there are mere thirty of them isn't a reason for my confusion - I definitely wouldn't play all Elves as I clearly see that not all of them are good enough for any deck. Why should be the Sphinxes any different then? I may keep the deck for decades, so it's not like there will be no more flying additions.
And, I don't even think that the deck really needs some early pressure. (Although cats would be funny.) After all it'll be a control deck. :smile:


Díky za nápady a rady!

At the risk of insulting your intelligence, Hypergenesis is green for color identity purposes. So, it's not legal for play in a Dakkon Blackblade Sphinx Tribal deck since his color identity is esper. I'm sure you knew that already...but if you didn't, maybe Karona, False God is a way to make both decks at once? I played against a 5C sphinx tribal Karona deck on MODO once, and it was pretty sweet.

[Offler]

Wow, this was one of a post! Lots of helpful information and quite some ideas! :eek:

I think I'll build both decks. It's not like I cannot spend a few more bucks here and there. I'll try to stay below 100 crowns per card, just because I like self-imposed limits.


Not sure if you are serious, but you're welcome :)

When i use self-imposed limits its usually monocolored tribal :) Anowon was at first planned as "troll deck" of some sort. Main goal was to force oponnents to start play blue counterspells rather than playing cards like Vindicate. Nobody did so, and the deck became more sucessful I planned.

Most cards I used there rarely see play in Modern or other 60 card formats, but I was surprised that are also not used in format like EDH. Following this philosophy usually leads to cheap cards (money-wise) such as Night dealings - 7 Kč on Černý rytíř, or Sickening dreams - 5 Kč. Most sphinxes are in same category.

[Ace/Homebrew]

Hypergenesis is green for color identity purposes.
What card is Hypergenesis without suspend?

Eureka!

[Bed Decks Palyer]

At the risk of insulting your intelligence, Hypergenesis is green for color identity purposes. So, it's not legal for play in a Dakkon Blackblade Sphinx Tribal deck since his color identity is esper. I'm sure you knew that already...but if you didn't, maybe Karona, False God is a way to make both decks at once? I played against a 5C sphinx tribal Karona deck on MODO once, and it was pretty sweet.
Nono, I wasn't thinking of Hypergenesis in Esper, it was an allusion to one ancient philosopher that ran naked on streets screaming "Hypergenesis!" after he discovered he may play only the good sphinxes, not all the printed ones. :wink:



Not sure if you are serious, but you're welcome :)

When i use self-imposed limits its usually monocolored tribal :) Anowon was at first planned as "troll deck" of some sort. Main goal was to force oponnents to start play blue counterspells rather than playing cards like Vindicate. Nobody did so, and the deck became more sucessful I planned.

Most cards I used there rarely see play in Modern or other 60 card formats, but I was surprised that are also not used in format like EDH. Following this philosophy usually leads to cheap cards (money-wise) such as Night dealings - 7 Kč on Černý rytíř, or Sickening dreams - 5 Kč. Most sphinxes are in same category.
I am serious, those were interesting ideas.
And, I'm also surprised that some cards see no play in 100-cards format. Like really, what's wrong about Sphinx of Fact or Fiction? Ok, it's quite expensive mana-wise, but it still shouldn't cost 4 crowns... :smile:



What card is Hypergenesis without suspend?

Eureka!:wink:


Ok, I'm going to spend the weekend with some tinkering and with MKM search. I guess I won't be alble to build the deck with a 314 CZK credit on Černý rytíř (some 15 dollars), but I guess I'll design some sweet pile with my MKM savings.
I like the 5 color idea more and more. I guess I may look for some secondary funny tribe. I imagine something like...

Sphinxes vs. Dragons

...might be solid fun. But then again dragons are sooo ordinary. (Ok, Kavus are better, but...)

[Ace/Homebrew]

I like the 5 color idea more and more. I guess I may look for some secondary funny tribe.

How about Elementals? Gatherer says there are 326, so there's a decent pool. There's even some old school classics like Air Elemental and Fire Elemental.
Horde of Notions would be the most fitting 5C general and allows for good/fun/silly interactions with the evoke elementals (like Shriekmaw, Ingot Chewer, Mulldrifter). Plus you don't have to sell a kidney to afford them.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

How about Elementals? Gatherer says there are 326, so there's a decent pool.
Horde of Notions would be the most fitting 5C general and allows for good/fun/silly interactions with the evoke elementals (like Shriekmaw, Ingot Chewer, Mulldrifter. Plus you don't have to sell a kidney to afford them.

Ha! That's a good suggestion. I guess that Grave Pact would be fine with the evoke dudes!

[Bed Decks Palyer]

So, I'm still undecided about what to build, but I bought a horrid amount of bulk Signets, Guildgates and Refugees, so I'm ready to start brewing, once I'll have some spare time. :cool:

[Bed Decks Palyer]

I fiddled with some random piles and I seriously hate the 5-Color manabase. It's really nice when listed in MWS (and even better IRL), and I love the look of the old painlands, the beauty of new guildgates and the contrast of the both; refugees and shardlands are amazing (ok, maybe just the shardlands), and it's all nice and fun, until the push comes to shove and one must navigate through the horrid heaps of pain/shard/gatelands and the corresponding signets. Getting the correct amount of correct colors of mana was so painful I can't even tell, and I'm even speaking about preliminary tests. So no, I won't build 5-Color Deck. It's unreliable, painful to pilot, slow as a snail, exhausting and not exactly thrilling.

The sphinxes are strange. Or better said: there something strange about the deck; although the sphinxes are powerful, I simply can't fall in love with the color combination, with Esper. Maybe I'll find some time and will later and try to invent something about them, it's definitely quite strong tribe for a casual EDH, see Enigma Sphinx, Magister Sphinx or Sphinx of Magosi to name a few. It looks like the deck just needs some early control (mostly removal) and then it should be fine... for the pub desk metagame.

I'm considering Numot. In fact I'm thinking of each and every of the three-colors dragons - ok, just the better ones, not Chromium -, but Numot seems funny. Intet has nice illustration and really interesting ability, otoh, I'm completely lost when it comes to the color combination. What's there in UGR?

At the end it looks like I'll rebuild my old GW pile. I like the purity of the deck and of the color combo, otoh, I'm afraid it would lack a control power. Maybe I may add the black once again for all the creature removal (but not for the tutors, I dislike them, esp. in a pub), but then there's the whole trouble with the manabase. While two-colors deck may work on signets and guildgates, three colors need some better fixation and that's not what I want to start all over again. Needless to say, without black I'll lack some of the better choices like Mortify, Putrefy, Chainer's Edict, Worm Harvest or Identity Crisis. (And Teneb, of course.)
I'd play WGR, but there are no appropriate generals, Mayael is not suited for what I'd like to build and Uril... well, Uril... no. Also, RGW as a deck is quite obvious, all the Swords, dudes and Shattering Sprees...

The question is: straight GW or splash?

[Offler]

Can you provide early list of the sphinx deck?

[Bed Decks Palyer]

Can you provide early list of the sphinx deck?

Well, I just hope you won't laugh. It's a low-budget, pub-friendly deck. :smile:

about 35 Esper lands:
Refugees
Arcane Sanctum
painlands
guildgates
basics
cheap fetches
several utility lands like Bojuka

about ten manarocks:
WUB signets and cluestones
Worn Powerstone
Thran Dynamo
Gilded Lotus

some removal:
StP
PtE
Condemn
Reprisal
Mortify
few edicts
Living Death
Rout
WoG

other control stuff:
Dism. Blow
Dismiss
TfK
Return to Dust
some draw
and some more destruction
Thopter Foundry
all three Capsules
Nihil Spellbomb
Control Magic
P. Bidding

equips:
two haste Boots
Jitte (because I sitill have one)
Sword of the meek

Sphinxes:
Arbiter of the Ideal
Chancellor of the Spires
Consecrated Sphinx
Enigma Sphinx
Horizon Scholar
Isperia the Inscrutable
Magister Sphinx
Medomai the Ageless
Sharding Sphinx
Sharuum the Hegemon
Sphinx Ambassador
Sphinx of Lost Truths
Sphinx of Magosi
Sphinx of the Steel Wind
Sphinx of Uthuun
Sphinx Sovereign
Sphinx Summoner
Windreader Sphinx

It wasn't bad for the pub, but too slow. Maybe it simpl needs more early control?

[Offler]

Most EDH players around me choose mana acceleration. That is why they are whinning that combo decks are un-fair.

I usually try combination, where my own acceleration is based only on card drawing. Control...

Magus of the Moat

Rest seems pretty decent to me, but yes, you need something that will cripple agro decks.
Trinisphere is legal?

[Bed Decks Palyer]

Most EDH players around me choose mana acceleration. That is why they are whinning that combo decks are un-fair.

I usually try combination, where my own acceleration is based only on card drawing. Control...

Magus of the Moat

Rest seems pretty decent to me, but yes, you need something that will cripple agro decks.
Trinisphere is legal?

I think Trini is legal. In fact the whole "tournament" scene started a few weeks ago, and if not for the fact that I won't be having a time for Legacy anymore, I wouldn't dib into EDH, as I extremely suck at it. At least it's 1v1, so it's more about actually playing than chitchat.

Speaking of cripplig other decks, I think that for 1v1 games discard is pretty solid against combo and control (Hymn, Gerrard's Verdict, Identity Crisis, etc.), while a good mix of spot and mass removal (plus some lock pieces like Island Sanctuary and such) may work wonders against aggro. IDK. I'm quite unwilling to add non-sphinx creatures, not because it's a Tribal EDH or something like that, but simply coz I like the purity of deck design. :)

However this is all really academic, as I definitely decided to let the sphinxes sleep for a while and concentrate on something more simple (at least speaking of mana managment). So, straight GW it'll be.


GW.EDH

First of all, I realized that the multicolored decks make me nervous. I dislike the many tasks linked to three-or-more colored decks, like dependance on fetches, need for the fixation, etc. Honestly, if I'd wanted to twiddle with that, then I'd go for the "real" competitive EDH, not a pub deck.
Also, I really liek the purity that GW offers, both in a design terms and in the... lets say atmosphere or flavour.
I'm not exactly set on an idea, but for the start I'll gowith the usual etb theme. From the several possible generals there's none that would really strike me (read: they are both amazing, how they not be, when they're all GW?), and none of them exactly supports the 187-based deck, so I may just as well go with a random one. (So far I like Sigarda the most, but Tolsimir is also nice as is Cpt. Sisay, yet she brings far too many shuffles.)

list to follow...

[datanaga]

I fiddled with some random piles and I seriously hate the 5-Color manabase. It's really nice when listed in MWS (and even better IRL), and I love the look of the old painlands, the beauty of new guildgates and the contrast of the both; refugees and shardlands are amazing (ok, maybe just the shardlands), and it's all nice and fun, until the push comes to shove and one must navigate through the horrid heaps of pain/shard/gatelands and the corresponding signets. Getting the correct amount of correct colors of mana was so painful I can't even tell, and I'm even speaking about preliminary tests. So no, I won't build 5-Color Deck. It's unreliable, painful to pilot, slow as a snail, exhausting and not exactly thrilling.

I must disagree:) My Horde of Notions decks manabase is stable like statue and smooth like nutella!
You are doing it wrong, You should not play crap 2 color cip taplands like refuges and guildgates, but vivids from lorwyn block, my cheap 5c manabase is like this:
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/horde-of-budget-cards/

command tower and new mana artifacts like chromatic lantern also help.

Pavel D.

[Davran]

What about Saffi Eriksdotter for your general? I've had a Saffi deck for forever (my longest lived deck to date), and she definitely supports the 187-style thing.

The nice thing about Saffi is you can go full on combo with Karmic Guide, Reveillark, and/or Adarkar Valkyrie ...or you can just play a bunch of value dudes and let Saffi be a kind-of Reanimate in the face of a board wipe.

One thing I'll definitely recommend for GW-187.dek is Juniper Order Ranger. The card gets out of hand real quick, especially if you're getting in there with Hero of Bladehold or something similar.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

I must disagree:) My Horde of Notions decks manabase is stable like statue and smooth like nutella!
You are doing it wrong, You should not play crap 2 color cip taplands like refuges and guildgates, but vivids from lorwyn block, my cheap 5c manabase is like this:
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/horde-of-budget-cards/

command tower and new mana artifacts like chromatic lantern also help.

Pavel D.

But your cheap-ass Vivid manabase works only because you use the newly patched vivds that etb with seven counters. :cool:
Also, five colors suck. It's a terrible nightmare to dick around with the signets, trying to get the mana right. I noticed that whenever you cast your general, you simply tap some lands without looking at them and say something like "yep, all colors are there". :tongue:
Btw, you should definitely purchase the last painland, unless you want me to emabrass you in front of all of your friends and buy it for you as a Christmas present... :laugh:

But honestly, I think I'll build some similar pile, just that it's so hurtful to fidle with the 5C budget manabase. And, I'm a GW player in heart, so why I shouldn't play my most beloved color combination at leat in EDH!

Speaking of the tournaments: how many ppl came last Wednesday, what do they play, have you won, etc., etc.

And don't be mistaken, I won't be playing some weak deck. I plan to surprise you with what I'll bring! I swear that if you'll win one out of ten games... ok, rahter just one out of five games... I'll buy you your choice of Adarkar Wastes!


Saffi ain't a bad idea. I'll think about it, but I really like big creatures with stupid manacosts, so maybe I'll try Krond.

[datanaga]

But your cheap-ass Vivid manabase works only because you use the newly patched vivds that etb with seven counters. :cool:
Also, five colors suck. It's a terrible nightmare to dick around with the signets, trying to get the mana right. I noticed that whenever you cast your general, you simply tap some lands without looking at them and say something like "yep, all colors are there". :tongue:
Btw, you should definitely purchase the last painland, unless you want me to emabrass you in front of all of your friends and buy it for you as a Christmas present... :laugh:

But honestly, I think I'll build some similar pile, just that it's so hurtful to fidle with the 5C budget manabase. And, I'm a GW player in heart, so why I shouldn't play my most beloved color combination at leat in EDH!

Speaking of the tournaments: how many ppl came last Wednesday, what do they play, have you won, etc., etc.

And don't be mistaken, I won't be playing some weak deck. I plan to surprise you with what I'll bring! I swear that if you'll win one out of ten games... ok, rahter just one out of five games... I'll buy you your choice of Adarkar Wastes!


Saffi ain't a bad idea. I'll think about it, but I really like big creatures with stupid manacosts, so maybe I'll try Krond.

:laugh: you are right, after fifth beer Im bit lazy to control colored mana, but playing this manabase for such a long time improved my signet skill a lot, Im able to recognize what color is missing very fast :laugh:

Yes, I sold my german Adarkar Wastes because rest painlands are english (Ice Age), still trying to purchase NM english one, but binders are full of new shit or bad conditions.

You should play what you like, I like my deck a lot, see new update in form of equipments, but I dont want to play OP boots which everyone and his grandmother is playing, but Unscythe, Killer of Kings!:)

OK, looks like we have got a deal, one out of five games can not be problem:)

Last time I was on bigger EDH tournament on saturday, 33 people, Night before I changed my deck a lot for this tournament, finally I was playing 5c control with combo finish (Helm/Rip), but lack of practise with deck and lack of blue duals (only tropical) and other key cards like FOW cost me some games, finished 3:3. Field was really competetive, some kills on turn three etc.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

:laugh: you are right, after fifth beer Im bit lazy to control colored mana, but playing this manabase for such a long time improve my signet skill a lot
:laugh: Pavel, I'm glad we've finally met on the Source, you made my day... twice per day!



Im able to recognize what color is missing very fast :laugh:

Yes, I sold my german Adarkar Wastes because rest painlands are english (Ice Age), still trying to purchase NM english one, but binders are full of new shit or bad conditions.
Ask and receive. I'll take a look on MKM, it's not like the web suffers of scarcity when speaking of 0,99 Euro painlands.



You should play what you like...
So true!



...I like my deck a lot, see new update in form of equipments, but I dont want to play OP boots which everyone and his grandmother is playing, but Unscythe, Killer of Kings!:
I saw that. Speaking of it, there should be some saw equipment. Orcish Lumberjack would love it.



OK, looks like we have got a deal, one out of five games can not be problem:)
I'll ride by a car, because I'll need to take you to your family. After I'll be done with you, you won't see through the tears.



Last time I was on bigger EDH tournament on saturday, 33 people, Night before I changed my deck a lot for this tournament, finally I was playing 5c control with combo finish (Helm/Rip), but lack of practise with deck and lack of blue duals (only tropical) and other key cards like FOW cost me some games, finished 3:3. Field was really competetive, some kills on turn three etc.
Crap. Pretty competitive field, quite annoying. Otoh, last time I was at an EDH tourney, Lenny borrowed my old 5C pile (the one with Phelddagrif, Mystic Enforcer, Primitive Justice, Terror, Sol Grail and other such beauties) and easily defeated Vojta Sobek while he was trying to assemble some USD 2500 combo in a deck full of freshly opened rares from freshly purchased Legends display.


Also, GW is boring, Teneb rules. Afte all, it's not like I cannot throw away the black if I'd find it annoying. Frankly, if only black magic in MtG would be more akin to green magic in Heroes of M&M 3, I'd much more loved to play it. No Diabolic Tutors and fugly demons, but smiling skeletons and earth spells.

[Ace/Homebrew]

Your idea to use Sigarda, Host of Herons sounds like the best option for GW. Plus you can swap her out for Gaddock Teeg if the tournaments you attend are filled with turn 3 combos. :cool:

Omlouvám se za svou roli v naší dřívější neshody. :wink:

[Bed Decks Palyer]

Your idea to use Sigarda, Host of Herons sounds like the best option for GW. Plus you can swap her out for Gaddock Teeg if the tournaments you attend are filled with turn 3 combos. :cool:
es! I already thought about Gaddock... but I'm bit afraid that the combo players will have they're removal ready. But it's still better to force them to have it, then to simply stare while they're assembling the kill. It's either him or Sigarda, with Krond following them. All other GW dudes are a bit worse, except for Sisay, but she definitely needs a different deck.



Omlouvám se za svou roli v naší dřívější neshody. :wink:
:cool:

That's fine, nothing happened. I shouldn't have been that "witty" it didn't occure to me that not everybody is interested in jokes about his favourite format.
Thing is that there are several problems/annnoynaces linked with EDH and its crowd, otoh, it's not that any other format doesn't suffer of something similar. While EDH is sometimes pestered with whimperers, Eternal crowd is pretty arrogant... and Standard players quite often do not even know how the game works. :frown:


Guys, looks like I need to flip a coin. I like the elegance of GW, otoh, I like the power of GWb. I'll go with the latter, at least until I accumulate enough cards for the straight GW.

[Megadeus]

I'd say in a more casual setting that GWB would probably be better because you get more powerful tools from black In a 1v1, I'd rather have the GW more straight forward deck

[Bed Decks Palyer]

I'd say in a more casual setting that GWB would probably be better because you get more powerful tools from black In a 1v1, I'd rather have the GW more straight forward deck

That's strange: while I understand the power of GWB (edicts, Nekrataals, etc.), I'm surprised that you value clean GW as a more powerful choice for 1v1! How would you build it? I'm tempted to build something like creaturegeddon, except that there are not enough cheap gedgons in the color combination; I know about the namesake sorcery, then few other bad LDs like Global Ruin or Catastrophe.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

Ok, so I tinkered with the GBW and honestly: it was a disaster.
The color combination is nice and powerful, indeed it is, the generals (Teneb or Karador) are amazing, control elements are strong, the many combos and engines are interesting, and the cheap dual (Murmuring Bosk) is funny. But I disliked the direction that the deck inevitably took. You know... graveyard recursion and Greater Good and Kokusho and Yosei and Grave Pact and this and that and all that stuff.
Bah, boring, boring! Powerful? Yes! Original? Not really. Herpderp? Of course...
I'll try something different, and I even finally settled for the color combo, RGW. I got some preliminary list and idea, and I swear it will be unusual. At least I hope so.

[reserved for list]

[datanaga]

I hope you finally deicided what you want to play and will finish deck soon, can't wait to beat it :smile:

[Bed Decks Palyer]

I hope you finally deicided what you want to play and will finish deck soon, can't wait to beat it :smile:

No way, IM still undecided. Part of me wants to just throw my favourite GW creatures in one pile and be doen with it. The other part of me wants to build a bit more real deck with some idea, preferably bi- or tri-color so that I don't suffer much. And the last part of me wants to build your exact 100 except with better manabase (seriously, I'd love to buy the old batch of Reflecting Vivid Pools). So I'm torn between the three ideas; oh, the agony of choices, the agony of choices, the agony of choices!

But whatever I'll build, prepare to cry a lot. I won't even metagame against you (although I know that ten to fifteen Shatter effects combined with some Wrath here and there could save my Adarkar Wastes), but I'll go with something real.

Right now I'm tinkering with straight GW, either:
- Kalamita ramp,
- Sigarda creaturegedon,
- or Krond voltron

or RGW, either:
- Mayael cheatings,
- or Rith/Urin beatdown

[Megadeus]

When I edh, if I am just doing it for fun, I like to make a theme and build around it. Otherwise it simply becomes a good stuff deck (especially in GWB) and its the same as everyone elses except a different general

[Davran]

When I edh, if I am just doing it for fun, I like to make a theme and build around it. Otherwise it simply becomes a good stuff deck (especially in GWB) and its the same as everyone elses except a different general

I just built a Karador deck that I love to play, and I totally agree with this. If you look at my list and some sort of "average" Karador list I'm willing to bet they're nearly identical. I think that's part of the problem with such polarized and powerful commanders. The simple fact is that your handicapping yourself if you play something powerful and "known" by being different - everyone assumes you're playing the fully-powered version anyway, so you might as well just go for it. If you're looking to be unique you need a unique general. I promise that no two Barktooth Warbeard lists are identical.

If you really want green/white, and you really want to be different, grab yourself a Gabriel Angelfire or some shit, and watch your enemies quake in the face of that Rampage 3.

[Megadeus]

I'm not saying that you NEED to be different or anything. Just that I like to play things that are more unexpected. I always wanted to build Saffi in GW. I guess it would essentially just be GW weenie, but you could also build it as like a GW deck that abuses ETB effects. When your dude dies to a wrath/chump block, you can Saffi it back for another ETB Trigger. Idk. Just my brainstormed ideas.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

When I edh, if I am just doing it for fun, I like to make a theme and build around it. Otherwise it simply becomes a good stuff deck (especially in GWB) and its the same as everyone elses except a different general

Yep, you're 100% right, that's why I kinda like Pavel's crap deck. It's really funny to watch the people struggle against his pile of bad cards, esp. when they try to assemble some insane beta foil two-card-I-win combo and... ooops, "eot Piper-out Thraximundar, swing with Unscythe, tap Legacy Weapon, nice board you had there..." :laugh:

[nedleeds]

I'm not saying that you NEED to be different or anything. Just that I like to play things that are more unexpected. I always wanted to build Saffi in GW. I guess it would essentially just be GW weenie, but you could also build it as like a GW deck that abuses ETB effects. When your dude dies to a wrath/chump block, you can Saffi it back for another ETB Trigger. Idk. Just my brainstormed ideas.

http://magiccards.info/scans/en/ia/297.jpg

[Bed Decks Palyer]

Ok, the choice was done and is set in stone, it'll be a plain GW with emphasis on etb and ltb creatures.

From the available generals (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?action=advanced&color=+@%28+[G]+[W]%29&type=+[%22Legendary%22]) I've chosen Saffi, as she goes well with the theme. If I'll realize she's too good - or too bad -, I may always switch her for anyone else.
I think that Karametra would be pretty good general, too. She will give a completely different feel to the deck, and it's a very reasonable choice, as ramping is quite a powerful strategy I heard. Moreover the etb guys use the very same engine (be it Erratic Portal or w/e) but with really different outcome depending on the general used.
Sigarda or Krond are always a good choice, too, if only I'd decide to straighten the deck into some creature rush. Chorus' bonus seems to be unimportant when casting 8/8 dudes, so she's out of question; but I consider her to be an interesting choice, just like Trostani.
From the tier2 generals, there's no one that really shines and the even lower tier choices, the Legends dudes with their amazing art and flavor are exactly that: dudes with amazing art and flavor, but not that amazing abilities.

List ot follow once I'll settle on some. :)

Pavel, what's your budget? Is the 100 crowns per card limit still in use? Not that I'll stay true to your rules, but I may follow them at least a bit.

[datanaga]

Pavel, what's your budget? Is the 100 crowns per card limit still in use? Not that I'll stay true to your rules, but I may follow them at least a bit.

It is bit more complicated:)
When I started with deck, the idea was to play 5color, I like possibility to play every printed card in the future, 101 Highlander deck full of powerfull but cheap cards, because I didnt want to destroy expensive cards I had (mana crypt, duals, fetchlands, tutors etc.) in the pub and I also hated to tutor something almost every turn, its slowing down the game and is boring to me, I just wanted to play easy piloted deck full of monsters and value cards:)

I used price limit 100 crowns (5$) per card according to http://www.cernyrytir.cz/
then changed this rule to not to spend more then 100 crowns (5$) per card, because I was tired to check often changed prices on the web.
In fact the most expensive card I bought for this deck was reflecting pool for 70,- (3,5$).
During the time some cards prices went over this limit a lot and I deicided to get rid of them from money purposes (emrakul, maelstrom archangel, lord of extinction etc.) It is funny, because both maelstrom archangel and lord of extinction were awful cards in this deck, I replaced them with cheap foils (Sphinx of Uthuun and Rune-Scarred Demon) and deck is way more powerfull than before.

Sometimes people cryed a lot about other cards because of power and non fun factor so I also deicided to get rid of them (identity crisis, cataclysm).
I remember games against Marting Siling, where I played identity crisis on turn 4 three times in a row, I laught a lot but he didnt:)

Nowadays the most expensive cards are foil thraximundar (I purchased for 30,- (1,5$) when nobody wanted him), foil draining whelk and some cards went over 100 crowns limit on http://www.cernyrytir.cz/ during the time (reflecting pool, stroke of genius, worldly tutor, mind´s eye, hellkite overlord, phyrexian arena, elvish piper)

When EDH started to be more and more popular and everyone asked me for my general I simply purchased Horde of Notions (5 crowns) without touching the rest of the deck, that is why I dont play more elementals and still dont have command tower...

[Bed Decks Palyer]

It is bit more complicated:)
I used price limit 100 crowns (5$) per card according to http://www.cernyrytir.cz/
then changed this rule to not to spend more then 100 crowns (5$) per card, because I was tired to check often changed prices on the web.
This is reasonable, I'll do something similar. does my 15 years old Sylvan Library straight from the booster count as a 45-crowns card?




When EDH started to be more and more popular and everyone asked me for my general I simply purchased Horde of Notions (5 crowns) without touching the rest of the deck, that is why I dont play more elementals and still dont have command tower...
You should purchase the Tower, it doesn't cost anything. You'll leave more money on a desk for a beer or soup.

[datanaga]

You should purchase the Tower, it doesn't cost anything. You'll leave more money on a desk for a beer or soup.

It is not question of money, I still have some points against that OP Command Tower:

1. I hate design of this card, like everyone should play it because is strictly superior to other lands.
If your commander is multicolored this simply reduce your deckbuilding to 99 cards. Which is really stupid in format where you need exactly 100 cards in deck.

2. Sometimes I play this deck like highlander without commander/general and this land is doing nothing.

3. I like my full cycles (15 fourth edition basics with different pictures, 5 vivids, 5 shards triple lands, 10 painlands (very soon:smile:), reflecting pool and opposite exotic orchard, I dont want to cut any of these lands in favor of Tower.

4. I dont think I desperately need it, even though it would be superb in my deck of course.

I dont want to say I will never play it, but hope my points make sense:)

[Bed Decks Palyer]

I dont want to say I will never play it, but hope my points make sense:)
Yes, most of these points really make sense, except for the one with the painlands which I don't really understand. Do you plan to acquire the Adarkars through trades or what? :tongue:

[Bed Decks Palyer]

So this is what I tinker with for past week or so. I'm just goldfishing the pile - as much as "goldfishing" an EDH is possible and meaningful -, to get some idea of how the deck flows, etc. The list:

General: Karametra, Goddess of Harvests

Lieutnants:
Saffi Eriksdotter
Sigarda, Host of Herons

Qty Name
1 Krosan Verge
1 Temple Garden
15 Forest
15 Plains
1 Terramorphic Expanse
1 Evolving Wilds
1 Grasslands
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Sapseep Forest
1 Mistveil Plains
//\\
// Creatures
1 Saffi Eriksdotter
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Pelakka Wurm
1 Loxodon Hierarch
1 Dauntless Escort
1 Fleetfoot Panther
1 Dust Elemental
1 Stonecloaker
1 Thragtusk
1 Ravenous Baloth
1 Obstinate Baloth
1 Acidic Slime
1 Rampaging Baloths
1 Fiend Hunter
1 Karmic Guide
1 Angel of Finality
1 Eternal Dragon
1 Yosei, the Morning Star
1 Yavimaya Dryad
1 Yavimaya Elder
1 Farhaven Elf
1 Eternal Witness
1 Admonition Angel
1 Indrik Stomphowler
1 Harmonic Sliver
1 Panglacial Wurm
1 Blazing Archon
1 Uktabi Orangutan
1 Wall of Roots
1 Whitemane Lion
1 Roaring Primadox
1 Wall of Blossoms
1 Monk Idealist
1 Heliod, God of the Sun
1 Nylea, God of the Hunt
1 Spirit of the Hearth
1 Archetype of Endurance
1 Aegis of the Gods
1 Terastodon
1 Yavimaya Granger
1 Woodfall Primus
1 Sun Titan
1 Luminate Primordial
1 Sylvan Caryatid
1 Stampeding Wildebeests
1 Eiganjo Free-Riders
//\\
// Spells
1 Path to Exile
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Aura Shards
1 Beast Within
1 Sterling Grove
1 Plea for Guidance
1 Sylvan Library
1 Abundance
1 Greater Good
1 Wild Pair
1 Greater Auramancy
1 Privileged Position
1 Genesis Wave
1 Condemn
1 Return to Dust


I've noticed that while Kara as a conditional 6/7 is not exactly powerful, her ability is, surprise, surprise.

Most of the creatures are chosen for their etb effect, some of them plainly ramp or have some interesting ability (see the dragon commando or life gain dudes). The gating creatures are my equivalent of Erratic Portal. Most of the critters work fine with Wild Pair, except for the sole 3/3 rhino. (I consider adding Emeria Angel and Courser of Kruphix.) Sterling Grove cards are meant as way to protect at least Kara alone, but also the other Ench-Cret beings.
The manabase is as straightforward as possible. I need just one of each color to play Kara which should fix my colors with any creature drawn. I used very little utility lands and there are some crap fetches to shuffle the Library.
I'd love to squeeze in some Eldrazi (preferbly Pathrazer and Artisan), but I can live without them. Salami Simulant would be useful too, but w/e.
There are not enough removal in non-creature slots, and some of the other card choice are quite clunky/funky e.g. Wild Pair.

I like the elegance of GW build and on a paper it looks solid against a similarly underpowered deck. It uses no broken cards and it uses no fugly cards. I like the deck and I'm halfway thru collecting it via MKM.

[datanaga]

Your deck looks solid and should be fun to play it, it is not overpowered but on the other hand full or nice and really powerfull cards, Im glad that you are not including any instant win combo like rip-helm.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

Your deck looks solid and should be fun to play it, it is not overpowered but on the other hand full or nice and really powerfull cards, Im glad that you are not including any instant win combo like rip-helm.

Yeah, the insta-win comobs are annoying and I won't be using them in a pub settings.
There are some quite solid interactions, though, like the obvious Saffi+Yosei+GG or some tricks with stack and gating creatures. But it's mostly harmless pile of non-brokeness.
Also, I'm not sure it's 100% final version, as there are few cards that might get changed. But mostly it's fixed now.
I think it'll be ready in two weeks.

[Davran]

Yeah, the insta-win comobs are annoying and I won't be using them in a pub settings.
There are some quite solid interactions, though, like the obvious Saffi+Yosei+GG or some tricks with stack and gating creatures. But it's mostly harmless pile of non-brokeness.
Also, I'm not sure it's 100% final version, as there are few cards that might get changed. But mostly it's fixed now.
I think it'll be ready in two weeks.

I used to be against the whole "oops, I win" combo finish as a thing...and then I played a 2 hour game with no end in sight. Sometimes you just need/want the game to be over. I look at it this way: there's no one holding a gun to your head forcing you to go off, so it doesn't hurt to have access to the combo kill. To give an example, my "main" deck is Karador, and I have the whole Mike + Trike thing in there, plus Tooth and Nail and a whole bunch of other tutors I could use to find it. More often than not, I find myself trying to get there without the combo as that's much more fun...but every once in a while it's nice to just be able to pull the trigger and end a stalled out game.

I like your list. What about something like Yeva, Nature's Herald and/or Vedalken Orrery to interact with the Wildebeasts and Roaring Primadox? Seedborn Muse is also on-theme with that plan, but it might be a little higher in power level than what you're looking for here.

I'm also a really big fan of Stingerfling Spider in my green 187-type decks. No one ever sees it coming, and there's usually something with flying to kill (or more than one something).

[Bed Decks Palyer]

I used to be against the whole "oops, I win" combo finish as a thing...and then I played a 2 hour game with no end in sight. Sometimes you just need/want the game to be over. I look at it this way: there's no one holding a gun to your head forcing you to go off, so it doesn't hurt to have access to the combo kill. To give an example, my "main" deck is Karador, and I have the whole Mike + Trike thing in there, plus Tooth and Nail and a whole bunch of other tutors I could use to find it. More often than not, I find myself trying to get there without the combo as that's much more fun...but every once in a while it's nice to just be able to pull the trigger and end a stalled out game.

I like your list. What about something like Yeva, Nature's Herald and/or Vedalken Orrery to interact with the Wildebeasts and Roaring Primadox? Seedborn Muse is also on-theme with that plan, but it might be a little higher in power level than what you're looking for here.

I'm also a really big fan of Stingerfling Spider in my green 187-type decks. No one ever sees it coming, and there's usually something with flying to kill (or more than one something).

I agree with your reasoning on the combo kills. I remeber a pentagram game we've had few years ago when we literally relieved after a dude finally comboed us out with WGD. It was a game that seemed to never end, and we never really expected the combo, even though he played several Vamp. Tutors thanks to Eternal Witness and stuff. Then it camne out of nowhere after a well timed Entomb for the named Dragon... :-D
Btw, that guy has a fully old-frame RGB Highlander with the only exception from the frame rule being the Eternal Witness and three new fetchlands. Really amazing work!
Back to topic: what I dislike about having the access to the combo and not using it is that it brings unnecessary tension. What I dislike about EDH is the so-called "spirit of format" that many people swear to, and so they actively seek to not win in a most efficient way possible and/or mock the ppl who try to win. I dislike this attitude, as MtG is a competitive, not cooperative game, and I play it for the win. (If I'd want to look at cards, I may do it in Gatherer, there's no need for the dicking around with dices, sleeves and beers.) That's why I much more hate when people who have a chance to Strip Mine me out of game DON'T do it. But that's for another discussion.

However, yes, ok. I do concede to your point that there should be some kind of "oops, game is over", but I still don't want to use it. First of all, there's no reason, I guess most of my games will be against Pavel alone. Second, I don't want to cut any single creature (in fact IDK how to force Angel of Serenity somewhere), it doesn't look reasonable to cut any non-creature spell (the list is already stretched and I esp. dislike the very few removal spells) and of course I won't touch my manabase, as the deck is pretty mana-hungry.
Speaking of your ideas:
I'm not exactly thrilled with Vedalken Orrery. Look, it's definitely a powerful card, but it could be a strange topdeck and doesn't really work well with the whole idea of my deck.
Otoh, Yeva, Nature's Herald, is very interesting and pretty much no-brainer... if only I know what to cut. (So far the Sylvan Caryatid seems the less necessary, except that it ramps and Wild Pairs with EW). Yeva would give the deck an interesting angle, it Pairs with gorillion of my creatures and being a 4/4 dude, it's never a dead card.
I like Seedborn Muse. In fact, I like it a lot. It's pretty powerful, esp. in 3+ players, so I'll keep her in mind in case I'll find another weak link.
That spider is solid, and together with Acid Web Spider, they both were on my preliminary list. Thing is that they are quite situational, otoh, with Stampeding Wildebeests in play, this one turns to repeatable removal of all those Akromas, Tenebs, etc. Note that with Yeva in play, this may even stop the WGD combo. :)

Ok, so here's the maybeboard:
Angel of Serenity - definitely needed, with any gating creature this is a permanent exile, moreover it supplements Angel of Finality as a gy hoser.
Yeva, Nature's Herald - seems really powerful. Note that I don't play ONLY green creatures, but it still isn't completely bad
Seedborn Muse - also strong card. Nigh autoinclude.
the pair of spiders - a bit lower in food chain, but still quite reasonable include. The Acid Web Dude is maybe not exactly needed, now when I play Harmonic Sliver, Uktabi Orngutan and Indrik Stomphowler, but the Stingerfling Spider should be considered.

Maybecuts:
Greater Auramancy - there may be far too many of these effects already: Sterling Grove, Privileged Position and Archetype of Endurance. (Btw, someone sent me the boar as a filler card, I was pretty happy about it!) Otoh, with all the important enchantments I play, this one might be solid way to protect them.
Return to Dust - like... seriously? Isn't there enough removal already?
Sylvan Caryatid - it can't block anything greater than Witness, Solemn, Uktabi, or Trinket (of the usualy played 2/x ground poundrs) and as such, it's quite unimportant to have a wall, I may play BoP instead. But the whole idea of "tap to add" creatures is senseless, as I plan to ramp through creatures->lands, not through birds/stones->mana. Every sweeper will kill the wall and I'd rather decrease my chance for turn4 Kara, then decrease my chance for a solid topdeck later in game.
Eiganjo Free-Riders - ok, there is Primadox and Wildebeests, but Riders serve an important role, they return white creatures what Wildebeests cannot. Maybe I can cut the whole package down to Primadox, but I noticed that I need this kind of effect asap. Moreover it's not sure Primadox will survive, and there's that Wild Pair thing (Fleetfoot Panther is useful with any of the three, yet it can findonly the Free-Riders). In short: the more the better. For now I'll keep them.

[Davran]

I'm always in the same spot you are with a new deck...you've got your pile and an argument for why every card that's in it is the best choice possible. Then you play a few games and some card just rots in your hand every time, or there's some creature you always pass over with Wild Pair or some other tutor effect. My advice is to keep the maybeboard handy somewhere, and just get out there and play. After a few games, the strengths/weaknesses of your list will become clear, and you can tweak things accordingly.

As for the whole "casual" vs. "competitive" thing and the "spirit of the format": For me, the "spirit" of EDH is whatever the hell you want it to be. If you want to run a combo, run a combo. If not, then don't. Personally, I find it useful to have access to one, but that's just, like, my opinion man. I try not to worry about what's in my opponent's decks and just play the game in front of me, but again, that's just my style. I do agree that sometimes people have it out for you simply because you chose the general you did, or they played some guy last month who did something "broken" with that card you just cast, or whatever. The point I'm trying to make is that you'll never assemble a pile of 100 cards that pleases everyone you see or play against, so you might as well build the deck YOU want to play. If your opponents have a problem with that, it's not your fault. There are literally thousands of cards to choose from, so why should anyone have to select from the few hundred that the masses have deemed "acceptable"?

[Bed Decks Palyer]

I'm always in the same spot you are with a new deck...you've got your pile and an argument for why every card that's in it is the best choice possible. Then you play a few games and some card just rots in your hand every time, or there's some creature you always pass over with Wild Pair or some other tutor effect. My advice is to keep the maybeboard handy somewhere, and just get out there and play. After a few games, the strengths/weaknesses of your list will become clear, and you can tweak things accordingly.
Yep, this is reasonable. :)
The penultimate time I built a highlander was in 1999 or so, and it was pretty easier than today, with a cardpool much much lesser. Maybe I'll even find out the old list. Fast forward ten years and I'm back to EDH with a BGW Teneb pile. I was overwhelmed by the possibilities, even though I decided to play old frame only.
I hope it won't be that hurtful process this time. :)



As for the whole "casual" vs. "competitive" thing and the "spirit of the format": For me, the "spirit" of EDH is whatever the hell you want it to be. If you want to run a combo, run a combo. If not, then don't. Personally, I find it useful to have access to one, but that's just, like, my opinion man. I try not to worry about what's in my opponent's decks and just play the game in front of me, but again, that's just my style. I do agree that sometimes people have it out for you simply because you chose the general you did, or they played some guy last month who did something "broken" with that card you just cast, or whatever. The point I'm trying to make is that you'll never assemble a pile of 100 cards that pleases everyone you see or play against, so you might as well build the deck YOU want to play. If your opponents have a problem with that, it's not your fault. There are literally thousands of cards to choose from, so why should anyone have to select from the few hundred that the masses have deemed "acceptable"?
You're right!

Btw, could you share a link to your monogreen EDH? I'm pretty interested in it. Green is my favourite color.

edit:
Oh, and Muse must be in. The interaction between Kara, Muse and any gating creature is funny. I'll pull most of my lands out of the deck before the turn returns to me.

[Davran]

I don't really have a mono-green deck together right now as my limited collection of staples is sleeved up for Karador, but here's the list I've been tinkering with for a while:

Commander:
Yeva, Nature's Herald

Creatures:
Sakura-Tribe Elder
Scavenging Ooze
Courser of Kruphix
Eternal Witness
Hua Tuo, Honored Physician
Viridian Corrupter
Wood Elves
Yavimaya Elder
Eidolon of Blossoms
Oracle of Mul Daya
Roaring Primadox
Stampeding Wildebeests
Wolfbriar Elemental
Acidic Slime
Indrik Stomphowler
Seedborn Muse
Stingerfling Spider
Bane of Progress
Deadwood Treefolk
Duplicant
Kamahl, Fist of Krosa
Soul of the Harvest
Avenger of Zendikar
Hornet Queen
Pelakka Wurm
Woodfall Primus
Worldspine Wurm

Instant:
Crop Rotation
Nature's Claim
Worldly Tutor
Deglamer
Beast Within
Chord of Calling
Momentous Fall

Sorcery:
Green Sun's Zenith
Nature's Lore
Sylvan Scrying
Harmonize
Skyshroud Claim
Primal Command

Artifact:
Skullclamp
Sol Ring
Lightning Greaves
Strionic Resonator
Swiftfoot Boots
Bow of Nylea
Cloudstone Curio
Oblivion Stone
Staff of Domination
Birthing Pod

Enchantment:
Exploration
Wild Growth
Sylvan Library
Beastmaster Ascension
Abundance
Arboria
Nature's Will
Asceticism
Primeval Bounty

Planeswalker:
Garruk, Primal Hunter
Karn Liberated

Lands:
Buried Ruin
Dryad Arbor
High Market
Homeward Path
Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
Okina, Temple to the Grandfathers
Oran-Rief, the Vastwood
Strip Mine
Thespian's Stage
Tranquil Thicket
Yavimaya Hollow
27 Forest

Ideally, there'd be a Gaea's Cradle in here...but that's too rich for my blood. If I ever actually build the deck, I'll probably use Snow Forests and Mouth of Ronom...because why not.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

Good job. I like the deck, although the missing Cradle is quite obvious. Otoh, it's not like you must play every staple printed. :smile:
I'm quite disappointed that Sylvan Primordial is banned, but I guess that it was far too powerful creature. Also, I'm a bit surprised with the lack of Greater Good in your list, but I guess there are not enough really big bad boys to use GG effectively.
I'd expect to see both Stampeding Wildebeests and Serow in your deck, but it looks like you don't have enough space for them. Back in my pre-competitive days, I loved the antelopes and had a really nice deck built around them... and quite strong for a kitchen table metagame.

[Davran]

Good job. I like the deck, although the missing Cradle is quite obvious. Otoh, it's not like you must play every staple printed. :smile:
I'm quite disappointed that Sylvan Primordial is banned, but I guess that it was far too powerful creature. Also, I'm a bit surprised with the lack of Greater Good in your list, but I guess there are not enough really big bad boys to use GG effectively.
I'd expect to see both Stampeding Wildebeests and Serow in your deck, but it looks like you don't have enough space for them. Back in my pre-competitive days, I loved the antelopes and had a really nice deck built around them... and quite strong for a kitchen table metagame.

Yeah, true...but I really do think mono green needs Sylvan Library and such. Besides, I'm having way too much fun with Karador right now. It's getting to the point where I'm the archenemy in some games, and I'm really liking the challenge. One of these days I'll take a step back from all of that and actually sleeve this up...

Greater Good could be ok, but as you say most of the creatures are small.

I honestly didn't know there was a more or less functional reprint of the Wildebeests...I took a break right around kamigawa block. There's probably room in there somewhere if you really want it.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

Yeah, true...but I really do think mono green needs Sylvan Library and such. Besides, I'm having way too much fun with Karador right now. It's getting to the point where I'm the archenemy in some games, and I'm really liking the challenge. One of these days I'll take a step back from all of that and actually sleeve this up...
I switched from Teneb to Karador after some time, but I didn't changed the deck completely, so it wasn't built around the new general. but it was still pretty brutal.
I think that speaking of Karador, one may quote a post few days back, the post about polarizing generals and their effect and deck building and gameplay. I think that Kara isn't hat polarizing, but I may be wrong. At least from how the deck goldfishes, I'm under impression that she doesn't force me anywhere...



Greater Good could be ok, but as you say most of the creatures are small.

I honestly didn't know there was a more or less functional reprint of the Wildebeests...I took a break right around kamigawa block. There's probably room in there somewhere if you really want it.
Yep, GG seems bad here. You play quite some sacrifice outlets, so hopefully StP and such shouldn't be trouble.
I was pretty excited when Serow came out, but then again it was during atime when I returned to MtG via tournament play and there's hardly any reason to twiddle with Serow in a competitive setting... while for a kitchen table company (moreover non-existant anymore), it had a perfectly bad frame.

[Davran]

I think that speaking of Karador, one may quote a post few days back, the post about polarizing generals and their effect and deck building and gameplay. I think that Kara isn't hat polarizing, but I may be wrong. At least from how the deck goldfishes, I'm under impression that she doesn't force me anywhere...

Not to derail your thread too far, but I disagree. When I set out to build my Karador deck, I essentially grabbed Birthing Pod and a reasonable curve of creatures with nice 187 abilities. As it happens, the list I ended up with is more or less the "average" Karador list if you look at all of the decks posted online, and it was completely unintentional. There's a reason for that beyond "good cards are good", and in my mind it's Karador's ability. The deck functions fine without him, but with him it can really be not fair. I've stumbled on lands, had my graveyard exiled, board wipes, you name it...but there's always that turn during the game where I start to feel like I can't lose, and more often than not it turns out to be true. You could of course deviate from that plan and make centaur tribal or something, but by and large I think Karador suggests a certain deck and the majority of people playing him are playing that deck.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

Not to derail your thread too far, but I disagree. When I set out to build my Karador deck, I essentially grabbed Birthing Pod and a reasonable curve of creatures with nice 187 abilities. As it happens, the list I ended up with is more or less the "average" Karador list if you look at all of the decks posted online, and it was completely unintentional. There's a reason for that beyond "good cards are good", and in my mind it's Karador's ability. The deck functions fine without him, but with him it can really be not fair. I've stumbled on lands, had my graveyard exiled, board wipes, you name it...but there's always that turn during the game where I start to feel like I can't lose, and more often than not it turns out to be true. You could of course deviate from that plan and make centaur tribal or something, but by and large I think Karador suggests a certain deck and the majority of people playing him are playing that deck.

Yes, I completely agree. That's also part of the reason why I want to try GW, as lots of EDH piles I played against "recently", were quite obvious. Sheoldred? Sharuum? Karador? Cromat/Prog? One may easily guess 1/2 of the deck just from the general, otoh, there's a reason for that beyond "good cards are good"... and in fact it's not bad in any way, let people play with the cards they like.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

this is were my goldfish "testing", purchase order, MKM availability and fascination by big bad monsters led me to; this is where I'm at:


1 Karametra, God of Harvests

1 Krosan Verge
15 Forest
15 Plains
1 Temple Garden
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Sapseep Forest
1 Mistveil Plains

1 Saffi Eriksdotter
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Pelakka Wurm
1 Loxodon Hierarch
1 Dauntless Escort
1 Fleetfoot Panther
1 Dust Elemental
1 Stonecloaker
1 Thragtusk
1 Ravenous Baloth
1 Obstinate Baloth
1 Acidic Slime
1 Rampaging Baloths
1 Fiend Hunter
1 Karmic Guide
1 Angel of Finality
1 Eternal Dragon
1 Yosei, the Morning Star
1 Yavimaya Dryad
1 Farhaven Elf
1 Eternal Witness
1 Admonition Angel
1 Indrik Stomphowler
1 Harmonic Sliver
1 Panglacial Wurm
1 Blazing Archon
1 Uktabi Orangutan
1 Wall of Roots
1 Whitemane Lion
1 Roaring Primadox
1 Wall of Blossoms
1 Monk Idealist
1 Heliod, God of the Sun
1 Nylea, God of the Hunt
1 Spirit of the Hearth
1 Archetype of Endurance
1 Terastodon
1 Woodfall Primus
1 Sun Titan
1 Luminate Primordial
1 Stampeding Wildebeests
1 Eiganjo Free-Riders
1 Angel of Serenity
1 Seedborn Muse
1 Wood Elves
1 Worldspine Wurm
1 Emeria Angel
1 Stampeding Serow
1 Garruk's Packleader
1 Garruk's Horde
1 Soul of the Harvest

1 Path to Exile
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Aura Shards
1 Sterling Grove
1 Plea for Guidance
1 Sylvan Library
1 Abundance
1 Greater Good
1 Wild Pair
1 Privileged Position
1 Genesis Wave
1 Condemn
1 Green Sun's Zenith


Card choices, explanation, such stuff: to follow...

General:
Karametra, God of Harvests
I'll return to Kara later, in fact there's so much to write about her that I'll start with the rest of the deck. If at least few words should be wrtten, than... yeah, she sems to be pretty solid.


Lands:
Krosan Verge The only fetch that survived the purge. I like the card, it's an "iconic" GW card, it ramps. Enough reasons to use it.
I cut all other fetches. The only reason for their use was to shuffle Sylvan Library, but with Kara it's unnecessary, and I don't need color fixation, not in 2-color deck with Rampant Growth general.

15 Forest A cheap reliable source of green mana.
15 Plains A cheap reliable source of white mana.
I like the number of basics. And I like the Invasion basics; this Forest (http://www.johnavon.com/fantasy-art/109/forests-and-trees.invasion-forest.jpg)and this Plains (http://www.johnavon.com/fantasy-art/109/plains-and-environments.invasion-plains.jpg).

Temple Garden A dual land. Self-explanatory.
I may add a Savannah, but as it would cost more than the whole deck, and I'd need to get an UNL one andget it bb-ed by my local alterer... no, not now. Maybe if I'll fell in love with deck. Or, I may ask Remi to make me some hawt proxy, esp. considering I already got a set of Savannahs that only collect dust.

Dryad Arbor
A feed for gating or stampeding creatures. With Kara and Aura Shards in play, this is easy-peesy accessible Naturalize on legs. Attacks for 1. Turns early GSZ into ramp spell. FUT frame.

Sapseep Forest
Mistveil Plains
Utility lands that Kara may find, and the only ones I use. Their effect is far from devastating (esp. Forest does very little), but they're nice, and at least the Soldevi Digger-esque ability may become helpful.

As counter-intuitive as it may look, 35 lands seem like a correct number for a ramp deck. The only cards I need are initial lands, as Kara alone ramps... and she's pretty reliable at it, now when 2/3 of spells are creatures. It's beautifully designed card, and I esp. like they didn't make it some kind of activated ability (thus suspectible to Pithing Needle/Robot), but made it a triggered one.


Creatures:

Saffi Eriksdotter
Combat trick, cheap ramp spell, makes wonders with Greater Good out, esp. if backed by Sun Titan and/or Karmic Guide.

Sigarda, Host of Herons
An answer to Thraximundar that flies over stalls. Would be better with any equip or aura, but w/e.

Whitemane Lion
Fleetfoot Panther
Stonecloaker
Dust Elemental
An obvious anti-Terror measure but more than it. First of all, with commander in play all my gating creatures ramp pretty fast, and esp. Lion is plain insane even without Seedborn Muse. Returns back utility men for further reuse, and if played in response to some etb triggers, these creatures make some interesting stuff to happen, check Fiend Hunter for example. Teir ability does't target (for those very few who mised the wording) and they may/must return themselves. As such Dust Elemental is solid against Wrath-like cards. Btw, don't ask what they do with Wild Pair in play. Esp. the elemental is once again sick. A small plus: Stonecloaker may eat LftL, Animate Dead target, w/e.

Farhaven Elf
Wood Elves
Yavimaya Dryad
I'd love to squeeze Yavimaya Granger in, but the space is limited. I don't ramp through druid creatures, manarocks and/or Cultivate spells, I use etb->land dudes which is pretty powerful tactic in conjuction with gating, roaring and stampeding creatures. Need be, Yavimaya Dryad may find Temple Garden in (unlikely) case that I miss white, she may also look for Dryad Arbor if I need another dude for Aura Shards or for a second antelope beast.

Wall of Blossoms
Wall of Roots
Cheap support cards for gating and stampeding creatures. Cheap blockers with useful effects. The only walls worth a playing. Someone should learn the MWS crowd that Wall of Roots may be used even if summsick.

Stampeding Wildebeests
Stampeding Serrow
Roaring Primadox
Eiganjo Free-Riders
Once again beautifully designed cards, flashbacks of times long lost, when big beaters (or strong creatures per se) actually had drawbacks to offset their power, instead of additional boni. Stampeding Wildebeests is one of my most favourite cards in the whole game, and every time I hold them in my hand, I shed a tear, overwhelemd by all the memories dating back to the times when Marogeddon was That Deck of Mine.
Ok, so I don't think one needs to be a genius to note how they work with creatures like Eternal Witness, Wall of Roots or Luminate Primordial. They may return themselves in case you need them for Wild Pair. Returning a gating creature is also quite often a reasonable choice, as those are my only tricks so it is necessary to have at least some them at ready, not bound in play.

Dauntless Escort
A singleton anti-WoG card, unfortunately there's no way how to Wild Pair him in response to a sweeper, not even with Nylea, God of the Hunt out. But it's still a good rhino to guard around.

Yosei, the Morning Star
Eternal Dragon
Dragon commando. This subtheme... this isn't a subtheme at all. Both are evasive beaters and both have their applications with Greater Good, one being an annoying (soft)lock piece, the other one a (bit slow and expensive) draw engine or GG fodder. Note that Eternal Dragon/Greater Good combo is quite solid with Wild Pair in play. But by the time this combo starts to be noteworthy, one should be winning. But I mention it no matter what, as it's one another way how to break the ground stalls, a bit more durdly then simply joining Sigarda in the air, but definitely more powerful. Just sac the dragon, on your upkeep return it back to your hand, then replay it asap (hopefully ramping yourself via Kara) and find another 5/5 dude (or 7/7, 9/9, 15/15... it all depends on how many activations of Nylea, God of the Hunt you may play in response to the trigger) by Wild Pair; voilà, for the mere price of four cards, two turns, twenty five mana and a two minutes of search, you just summoned a dragon and a wurm to support your cause!

Obstinate Baloth
Loxodon Hierarch
Thragtusk
Pelakka Wurm
Life is good. Many more lives are even better.
Each of those creatures has some unique ability of its own. Thragtusk triggers on leave play, so it works with gating/stampeding creatures. Wurm's trigger will be above Greater Good, so you you'll got one more card to chose from. Obstinate Baloth is a beast in case you need to sac it to its Ravenous mate, and it is good aganst untargeted discard, obviously. Loxodon Hierarch stops Wraths (though not exactly the namesake card) and as the only one of the four it is exploitable by Eiganjo Free-Riders.

Ravenous Baloth
Its only purpose is to emergency eat tokens made by...

...Rampaging Baloth
This one may go really dumb. The deck ramps with such a rate, that if left unchecked, these baloths may swarm my part of table with several beasts per turn. Imagine what they do with Karametra + a self-returning gating creature. Add Seedborn Muse to the mix...
Emeria Angel has the same utility, except that I got far less use for the birds, unless I'm going to use Skullclapm, which I won't be. But yeah, birds are funny, and the angel herself is important for Wild Pair, as there are not enough other WP:6 cards.

Eternal Witness
Karmic Guide
Monk Idealist
Angel of Serenity
Sun Titan
This is the recursion package. EW is hardly a surprise. Monk Idealist is good because he may return a previously used Sterling Grove or any other enchantment that ended in grave. Sun Titan shouldn't need an explanation (he's good even if he brings just a mere Whitemane Lion or Krosan Verge) and Angel of Serenity works as either a recursion of creature cards... or removal. Which brings us to next pair of cards.

Luminate Primordial
Fiend Hunter
While the hunter needs a gating creature to be really effective, Luminate Primordial is much more efficient. Thing is tht he works better in late game, while the Fiend Hunter is pretty good in the opening stages, esp. combined with Lion. Permanent removement of opposing creature with two more lands in play (ok, but this needs active Kara) that leaves a 2/2 dude, this ain't bad.
I'd love to find a slot for Stingerfling Spider.

Acidic Slime
Indrik Stomphowler
Harmonic Sliver
Uktabi Orangutan
Terastodon
Woodfall Primus
Admonition Angel
Hopefully I hadn't missed anyone else. This septet should be enough to get rid of any bothersome permanent. I won't use the new Uktabmonic Elf (whatever his real name is), as the card has not really pleasant illustration. But it's definitely solid choice instead of either ape or sliver (or in addition to them). Btw, note that the sliver is the only one reusable with Eiganjo Free-Riders. Angel is pretty busted with a gating creature and if you're into Magic quizes, lets solve this one: what's the perfect way to stack the triggers with Karametra, God of Harvests plus Wild Pair on battlefield, Dust Elemental in hand and Admonition Angel still in library?

Angel of Finality
This is my (nearly sole) anti-gy measure. It's not that many, sure. But I may find it by Wild Pair. Maybe I should add at least Loaming Shaman, maybe.

Panglacial Wurm
A way how to sink mana during fetches. I don't use it on first occasion, though. It's much better with Wild Pair.
Other than that, it's a big bad beater. A perfect card for big bed palyer, I dare to say.

Blazing Archon
This one should give me some time to breathe even in a multiplayers game. As a 5/6, this ain't really innocent guy, too. Oh, and loo, iIt's a gold flying lion!

Spirit of the Hearth
Another flying lion! Hexproof should be good against any kind of shennanigans, be it discard, edicts, Lavalanche, Crypt-like targeted graveyard hosers, etc. Solid ability on a solid body, thanks, I'll take one.

Heliod, God of the Sun
Nylea, God of the Hunt
any reason why WotC didn't use feminine titles for goddesses? Nvm, it's still pretty. This pair of creature is tutorable and defendable by Sterling Grove, they don't die easily, give boni to my creatures, block like champions (if only they can) and Nylea may do sometricks with Wild Pair trigger on stack.

Archetype of Endurance
This one gives hexproof to my dudes. As it's searchable by abut one gorillion of my cards, I'll never cut it. Once again, Sterling Grove kinda protects it and they form a lock that prevents my opponent from dealing with my creatures via targeted removal without dealing with Grove first; I hope the sentence makes sense.

Garruk's Packleader
Soul of the Harvest
Conditional card advantage. Packleader may be wildly paired with just about anything in the deck, so it shouldn't be hard to draw one card right after it etb.

Garruk's Horde
Some more card advantage, though even more conditional. As a 7/7 for seven, this is pretty solid beater, too.

Seedborn Muse
Well, this is obvious, isn't it? There are not exactly dozens of spells or abilities I may play on other players' turns, but the sole reason that it opens my mana for the gating creatures would be enough, esp. after I realized what she does with Karametra in play and Lion in hand: in four players game, this one should clear my library of all the lands since my end step until my next upkeep.


Spells:
Condemn
Path to Exile
Swords to Plowshares
Three pieces of targeted removal. I know this isn't enough, but there's no room for any other, becasue Kara and Wild Pair needs as many creatures as possible. Condemn is pretty situational, but it's necessary evil against attacking generals. I'm using the Venser vs. Koth version of PtE, as the wurm goes well with my deck. I'd love to play the one with Guay's illustration, but I don't like foils, so...
There are lots of other removal choices, and I'd like to use at least some of them (Reprisal, Exile, Angelic Edict), but they are conditional and unnecessary.

Aura Shards
I love this card ever since I overtook our local kitchen table with it. A repeatable disenchant effect, do I need to explain it?

Sterling Grove
Privileged Position
A protection package; these two cards form a lock that can be broken only by Tranquility and Disc-like effects or spells. Sterling Grove may be used as a tutor, of course, and it's quite good at it when paired with Sun Titan or Monk Idealist.

Plea for Guidance
An overcosted Idyllic Tutor. A perfect card for EDH.

Sylvan Library
Abundance
Greater Good
Some card selection and advantage. The combo of Sylvan Library and Abundance is fairly known, I guess. There are not enough shuffle effects for Library, but once Kara enters play, most of the cards drawn immediatelly turn into a fetchland, so this one is fine. Abundance may be used even on itself, as Kara should bring me enough lands to simply choose non-land whenever I'm about to draw something. GG protects me from StP and similar stuff, it creates really annoying lock with Yosei, the Morning Star and some kind of a dragon's recursion, and of course, it draws and filters my cards.

Wild Pair
I could write a study on Wild Pair. This card alone is exremely complex (or maybe the possible interactions with the rest of my deck), and I'm not going into details, as it would lead me to further and further explanations, ideas and commentaries. In short - it does what Karametra does and as such, I'm on the brink of cutting it, as several tutors per turn are quite cumbersome and too powerful. Otoh, it seems to be an extremely funny card, moreover one that helps me to win, so for now (and ever) I'm sure to use it.

Green Sun's Zenith
Genesis Wave
Acceleration, tutor and/or a way how to sink the excess mana. I hope that nobody will want to continue the game after I resolve a Genesis Wave for X=12+, as most of my non-land permanents have some kind of etb trigger. :)

[datanaga]

I like your decklist and card choices a lot, absolutely no dead cards and solid lategame plan, it seems you will get a lot more value from your cards (not in term of "financial value") than me, so it will be pretty challenging to win one game out of five:) otoh no raw card advantage, slower ramping, i still have a chance...

[Bed Decks Palyer]

I like your decklist and card choices a lot, absolutely no dead cards and solid lategame plan, it seems you will get a lot more value from your cards (not in term of "financial value") than me, so it will be pretty challenging to win one game out of five:) otoh no raw card advantage, slower ramping, i still have a chance...

I'm waiting for the last three or four packages and they should arive in few days. The rest will be bought from Rytíř and/or Sváča. I hope we'll learn who's the boss pretty soon. Unfortunately, the next week will be a long-shift one, and I got daily shift on weekend, so you definitely have to wait for another week. Speaking of the matchup: yeah, my lack of early pressure and the somehow low number of creatures removal might be a liability. Otoh, I played against your deck a few times and thus I know what you dislike, plus I will be riding a car with a 99% certainty, resulting in a dry regime for me and thus much much better pilotage. :tongue:

[datanaga]

These snooty EDH newcomers. It seems you need a lesson how format works, do you already purchase adarkar wastes? because I dont see it in your your decklist:)

yes, aura shards is sick against me, hope you will never draw it:)

[Bed Decks Palyer]

These snooty EDH newcomers. It seems you need a lesson how format works, do you already purchase adarkar wastes? because I dont see it in your your decklist:)

yes, aura shards is sick against me, hope you will never draw it:)

I already bought them from MKM for one euro, so just got me some beer after the fifth game will be over, and I'm fine with the trade. :tongue:
Btw, I didn't build the pile with your deck in mind, it simply ended like this. A lots of cards I like and some that I cosider generally good. If I'd metagamed against you, then Bane of Progress and Creeping Corrosion would be where I'd start, followed by twenty Wraths and as many Discs as possible. :laugh:

The "card explanation" post is finished now.

[datanaga]

I already bought them from MKM for one euro, so just got me some beer after the fifth game will be over, and I'm fine with the trade. :tongue:
Btw, I didn't build the pile with your deck in mind, it simply ended like this. A lots of cards I like and some that I cosider generally good. If I'd metagamed against you, then Bane of Progress and Creeping Corrosion would be where I'd start, followed by twenty Wraths and as many Discs as possible. :laugh:

The "card explanation" post is finished now.

Sweet:)
I could have problem with those sleeping gods, I suppose, because only legacy weapon can deal with undestructible enchantments.
Also my artefact hate is doing nothing against your deck. BTW my last update with decklist was long time planned, I switched putrefy (didnt fit value plan) for foil crib swap (reccuring elemental).
Im still thinking to cut 5 basics - one of every type for 5 nonbasic: command tower, adarkar, 3 others slots...
Than switch my lovely 15x 4th edition whiteboarded basics for 10x 4th portuguese blackbordered basics (I dont have all 15 pictures now, but have 2 same picture of every type).

[datanaga]

BTW it is not wurm but insect (Plated Geopede) on the Path to Exile (DD: Venser vs. Koth). But wurm is also some kind of insect so it is OK:)

[Bed Decks Palyer]

Yep, the sleeping gods seem to be pretty annoying, as there are few ways how to get rid of them before Sterling Grove hits play. Otoh, this is EDH, a format wehre sitting on a :3::w: do-nothing won't lead to a victory. As such, I'm afraid they'll become creatures too fast. But yeah, since you don't play StP/PtE, this shouldn't matter at all, so it's more about protecting them from Legacy Weapon than anything else.
Speaking of artifacts: I trimmed down the numbers (becasue of several reasons, like inclusion of Uktabi ape and frineds, need for slots, etc.) until I ended with a lone Skullclamp (that survived the purge simply becasue it's pretty powerful) and some other random artifact or two I don't even remember. That was the moment when I decided to cut all the artifacts. :laugh:
I wouldn't play the Command Tower for the very reasons you wrote. Otoh, it'll be a mageturbodual with your general. Also, I would definitely play black-bordered lands, but that's up to you.
Thanks for PtE info, I did miss he fact that it's a geopede. I still like it much more than the cat in original printings, however the Guay's illustration is the best. It fits the name, fits the theme, fits the StP counterpart... oh well, but WotC are dumb and they didn't reprint it althugh there are several prints of the card. And foil... no thanks.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

A disaster! A disaster happened to my deck!

So, I received most of the cards and promptly thrown the deck together. I missed some of the cards, but fortunately this was solved without much hurt. Then I rode to our lgs for the premiere. There was a Commander tourney today, and I hoped to either meet datanaga, or play at the tourney, or both.
I bought several missing cards and several missing sleeves, then I got myself one white and one green deckbox and combined them to make one green-white out of them. Yay! (I got one more white-green now, too.)

The tournament went like this:

R1, Lukáš, Teneb
g1 I have done very little. No, I'm kidding, I did nothing. :)
g2 It wasn't that bad, until he drawn SotF and Sylvan Library. The latter didn't even matter.

R2, Tom, Sygg Cutthroat
g1 Ok, so I mulled incorrectly and was punished for it I should have runned over Tom as he was stuck on three lands.
g2 Bah, my curve shouldn't start at 2,85.

R3, Honza, Oloro
g1 I had really crappy start and countering my general set me back even more as I needed mana to get things rolling.
g2 GW is not the best color to fight High Tide/ToA combo.

Overal, I'm not exactly satisfied. I guess fighting the high-power decks with my pile of random could not have ended differently, but there are obvious holes in the design like too many high-cmc cards, nearly none acceleration (and once they stop Kara, I'm in the world of trouble) and lots of cards that do nothing.

I played a few games with tom (against cheap GB oldschool and also against strong Karn.dec) and I was able to steal a game from Karn. Frankly, some cards are plain sick (Admonition Angel, Aura Shards), but then again I really need more high-impact cards.
I still think that the general idea of my deck ain't bad, just the resolution sucks. Needs less 6mana+ cards...

But to not be overly negative: it was a funny aftrnoon and I met Pavel, so I'm satisfied as one can be with a 0:3 result...

[datanaga]

I was previously at this kind of tournament and went similar like you with mi "broken" pile, dont be sad about it, you shouldnt compare your relatively cheap and slow deck with tier 1 decks full of duals and high effective spells, average cc in competent meta is much lower - similar to legacy, as I already said to you, if you would like to play at tournaments your deck needs more llanowar clones and paradise birds then will run much more smoothly, playing kara on turn 5 is way too late, best combo decks in the format are able to kill you on turn 2, that was the reason why I changed my deck do 5C control with combo finish for a while but after the tournament I went back to original pub version list.

You should mentioned, that in Round2 G1 Tom played (maindeck) Dystopia which totally wrecked your deck, this really is not common play just bad luck.
Btw Oloro will be banned as general in duel commander tournaments from tomorrow.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

I was previously at this kind of tournament and went similar like you with mi "broken" pile, dont be sad about it, you shouldnt compare your relatively cheap and slow deck with tier 1 decks full of duals and high effective spells, average cc in competent meta is much lower - similar to legacy, as I already said to you, if you would like to play at tournaments your deck needs more llanowar clones and paradise birds then will run much more smoothly, playing kara on turn 5 is way too late, best combo decks in the format are able to kill you on turn 2, that was the reason why I changed my deck do 5C control with combo finish for a while but after the tournament I went back to original pub version list.

You should mentioned, that in Round2 G1 Tom played (maindeck) Dystopia which totally wrecked your deck, this really is not common play just bad luck.
Btw Oloro will be banned as general in duel commander tournaments from tomorrow.

True, true, yeah, you're right! Btw, that Dystopia was pretty sick. And did you notice that Torpor Orb stops Aura Shards? Crazy...
I still think that several cards simply stink, the 6cmc doubletutor is crazy but expensive and it looks like there should be some way how to play Kara sooner and to have some dudes for gating and stampeding creatures; read: moar BoPs. Otoh, lets wait for the games against your real deck... :)

[Davran]

I still think that the general idea of my deck ain't bad, just the resolution sucks. Needs less 6mana+ cards...

But to not be overly negative: it was a funny aftrnoon and I met Pavel, so I'm satisfied as one can be with a 0:3 result...

The thing about commander 'tournaments' is that there are typically prizes, and when there are prizes people will break out their most 'competitive' lists. The kind of stuff I've seen people do for 2 packs of current set prize support per player eliminated really makes me question the motivation of some people. I mean really? You need to combo out turn 4 for 2 packs of core set or whatever? Why can't we all just have a fun game and forget about booster packs?

Keeping that in mind, I have to assume that there's nothing wrong with your deck. In a more 'normal' game around the kitchen table with your buddies you'll be glad your curve is a little higher.

[Ryu092]

I will give you one idea:) in can be riddiculous and it's cheap.
Summoner's Egg

[Bed Decks Palyer]

The thing about commander 'tournaments' is that there are typically prizes, and when there are prizes people will break out their most 'competitive' lists. The kind of stuff I've seen people do for 2 packs of current set prize support per player eliminated really makes me question the motivation of some people. I mean really? You need to combo out turn 4 for 2 packs of core set or whatever? Why can't we all just have a fun game and forget about booster packs?

Keeping that in mind, I have to assume that there's nothing wrong with your deck. In a more 'normal' game around the kitchen table with your buddies you'll be glad your curve is a little higher.

Well, on the other hand, it can be nice when people play whatever they want to. A "normal" pub EDH with its limits is no place for many of the otherwise beautiful and strong cards like Geddon, etc., so the "competitive" EDH is where you may play them without anyone saying a word - after all, we play for the prizes. :)
Not that I want to be That Ugly Guy, but otoh, in world of TnN->2xEldrazi, it shouldn't be forbidden to play LD or w/e. But this is me ranting about the spirit of EDH once more...
And yeah, I think the deck is quite fine, I just gonna tune it a bit and see how it will fare.



I will give you one idea:) in can be riddiculous and it's cheap.
Summoner's Egg
:laugh:
That's too much even for me.

[Ryu092]

The egg is really painfull if you know what to do with it, and in deck like this i will suppose what he wants some of the fatties in game ASAP, and egg is cheat for that. Also Privileged Position for protection is worthy, Yavimaya Elder but he fetchs only into your hand, Triumph of the Hordes bit unfair but will do the job as finisher, also preators will be painfull if you can afford them, gods are great, and to reanimator combo use altars to get maximum profit.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

I made several changes.
Added Quirion Trailblazer as it's one of the few Wild Pair:3 cards that ramps and searches for Witness. But it's not set in stone, in fact it seems to be weak.
On the other hand, I feel like Sunblast Angel is a no-brainer.
Condemn was cut and so was Yosei and Worldspine Wurm. Condemn is unnecessary even in 1v1 and the pair of creatures simply suck without Greater Good. Playing the creatures that have application only with a card that I got exactly one way to search for... bah. Esp. WSW with its manacost was nothing more than a hindrance and when in the opening 7, it was a de facto mulligan.

I'm considering to build a mono-G pile, too. It'll be funny.

edit: Also, I really really want one card for my deck. But I'll wait until it drops below 5 €.

http://media.wizards.com/images/magic/daily/wallpapers/da1468_thumb.jpg

[Davran]

I'm considering to build a mono-G pile, too. It'll be funny.

Have you seen this guy? Yisan, the Wanderer Bard

It's pretty janky and slow as hell...but this is EDH so whatever. I've been thinking about trying to build around him with Birthing Pod as a "backup". I figure it's an excuse to mess around with other janky stuff like Brown Ouphe since there aren't many playable green one drops that aren't Llanowar Elves or whatever.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

Have you seen this guy? Yisan, the Wanderer Bard

It's pretty janky and slow as hell...but this is EDH so whatever. I've been thinking about trying to build around him with Birthing Pod as a "backup". I figure it's an excuse to mess around with other janky stuff like Brown Ouphe since there aren't many playable green one drops that aren't Llanowar Elves or whatever.

I don't know. I'm much more thrilled with Yeva, but then again Yisan would lead to pretty unusual deck. Otoh, once he'll get hit a few times, it isn't that brilliant to find Brown Ouphe for :12::g::g: split over two turns. :smile:

edit: I think you may easily build a multi-purpoe pile and simply swithc Yeva and Yisan to get a completely different experience each time.

[Davran]

I don't know. I'm much more thrilled with Yeva, but then again Yisan would lead to pretty unusual deck. Otoh, once he'll get hit a few times, it isn't that brilliant to find Brown Ouphe for :12::g::g: split over two turns. :smile:

edit: I think you may easily build a multi-purpoe pile and simply swithc Yeva and Yisan to get a completely different experience each time.

I agree that Yeva is just better at the helm with Yisan as a worse, slower Pod in the deck. Part of me wants to go all in with like Contagion Clasp...but then you're paying 9 mana for your 2 drops, so bleh. I think the pile of cards you would need to make him "good" is too big to end up with any sort of reasonably functional deck, which is why I haven't really done anything with it yet.

I dunno, I guess I'm at that stage in my magical career where unique effects get me excited to try things out even though my competitive player lizard brain is screaming that it's a trap. I mean hell, I just sleeved up a Zedruu list for some games tonight because I want to kill someone with a Jinxed Choker. It ain't going to happen, but it's going to be fun trying to get there.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

This is a green deckbox:
http://im9.cz/iR/importprodukt-orig/c91/c918a462645df96bd73c62366e82bb45--mmf250x250.jpg
There's a white one available, too. Together they form a nice green-white deckbox for my nice green-white EDH deck.

Unfortunately, I'm stuck with a green bottom and white cover. (Alternatively: a green cover and white bottom.) Something must be done about this.

I'm considering a pair of monogreen and monowhite deck.

Monogreen.
While searching for some ideas, I found this antithesis of green deck (http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/commander-edh/multiplayer-commander-decklists/214087-sasaya-mono-green-non-mono-green-edh). (Note the number of creatures.) Otoh, I'd love to play Yeva and speaking of mono-green - and Yeva -, one cannot justify not running 60_Creatures.dec, right?
Ok, so monogreen should be a creature-heavy pile. I'm even considering some kind of theme, lets say Beasts, or maybe "all 4/4s" for much fun with Wild Pair, w/e.

Monowhite:
Well, it isn't that funny to play the exact same deck only in another color, amirite? So while "Whitemares" would be a nice deck, I think I'm going for something different. I guess that white could offer some removal. Targeted removal, mass creature removal, you name it. So some kind of mono-W control comes to mind. 50_Wraths.dec sounds fresh, doesn't?

[Davran]

Monogreen.
While searching for some ideas, I found this antithesis of green deck (http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/commander-edh/multiplayer-commander-decklists/214087-sasaya-mono-green-non-mono-green-edh). (Note the number of creatures.) Otoh, I'd love to play Yeva and speaking of mono-green - and Yeva -, one cannot justify not running 60_Creatures.dec, right?
Ok, so monogreen should be a creature-heavy pile. I'm even considering some kind of theme, lets say Beasts, or maybe "all 4/4s" for much fun with Wild Pair, w/e.

I kind of want to build mono-green control...with like Thrun, the Last Troll as the commander. The win condition would be something like Thrun carrying a Batterskull into your brain pan. Maybe with like Rancor or whatever. I don't know. Point is, it would only play the bare minimum of creatures with a healthy dose of Desert Twister effects and Plow Under. Of course that kind of thing is totally atypical for a green deck, so it makes it kind of hard to fill out a list, you know?


Monowhite:
Well, it isn't that funny to play the exact same deck only in another color, amirite? So while "Whitemares" would be a nice deck, I think I'm going for something different. I guess that white could offer some removal. Targeted removal, mass creature removal, you name it. So some kind of mono-W control comes to mind. 50_Wraths.dec sounds fresh, doesn't?

May I suggest Avacyn, Angel of Hope at the helm? Seems perfect.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

I kind of want to build mono-green control...with like Thrun, the Last Troll as the commander. The win condition would be something like Thrun carrying a Batterskull into your brain pan. Maybe with like Rancor or whatever. I don't know. Point is, it would only play the bare minimum of creatures with a healthy dose of Desert Twister effects and Plow Under. Of course that kind of thing is totally atypical for a green deck, so it makes it kind of hard to fill out a list, you know?
Well, I had a similar idea, I wanted to go Voltron style with Autumn Willow using only the cards from the first twenty editions (you need to do some creative math) from ABU to Exodus. But yeah... Rancor. And all other cute things since Urza block.
So maybe Thrun it is. At least I really like him, he doesn't have such beautiful art as AW, but otoh it's still very nice. And he's troll. He'll remind me of times when I played Troll Ascetics in Extended.
(But I still love to do something with Yeva. Maybe next time.)



May I suggest Avacyn, Angel of Hope at the helm? Seems perfect.
It's pretty expensive. Also, I seriously dislike the illustration. Domina-like archangel? Uhm... no, please.
Otoh, Mageta the Lion...

[kirkusjones]

Eight-And-A-Half-Tails could be fun. Although Mageta is awesome. I forgot all about him...I used to play a blue/white control deck with him, four ghostly prison, four propaganda and a bunch of counters. It was deservedly hated.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

We've organized a rendez-vous with my friend Pavel (datanaga on Source) and we've played a few games:

Duel for painland!

I made some minor changes to the deck structure, as I noticed that starting cmc of roughly 2,75 isn't the best. So I cut some stinky cards and added several BoP clones, including freshly bought Fyndhorn Elves that surprised me with their price.

Game 1 I lost quite easily, as I mulled down to five and Elvish Piper thrown at me some 8/8 flying trample inflatable dragon.
Game 2 I once again lost, but this time it was a bit closer.
Game 3 wasn't even close as I opened with two BoPs and Indrik Stomphowler. Though I was hit by LD, lucky topdeck got me back into game and it was all quiet on western front pretty soon.
Game 4 was a brutal example of what Whitemane Lion does in conjunction with my general. But then Pavel wrathed away the board of Ramp. Baloths and quite some tokens, fortunately I drawn into more gas and then Genesis Wave for 14 which we didn't even finished resolving.
Game 5 I lost after a pretty strange and long fight where I presented only a handful of Indrik Stomphowlers triggers, while Pavel continuously pressed me. This game saw the highlight of the day, when Pavel played Praetor's Grasp and took Dust Elemental to return (amongst others) Nekrataal and then fly over my defense with my very own 6/6 flying fear dude. Strange game, but nice one, indeed!

So Pavel won those Adarkar Wastes. :)

Lovely evening, I'm looking forward to play some more EDH again!

Ideas and thoughts:
The deck is quite slow for the duel, and I fear it's not strong enoguh for 4-men seats. Otoh, it's fun and nice. I guess I should focus more on the ramp and big spells, as right now there are some stinky cards in medium cmc range that do not do enough all the while not being strong enough to make any difference in mid-game. Also, the general is on bring of awfulness, as she does very little until she starts to do quite a lot. I mean ramping out of nowhere into Wild Pair and cmc7 guys and GW:14 is a thrilling experience, but playing Kara on turn 5, an equivalent to do literally nothing, is not the best play ever.

But so far so good, but I consider tweaking the deck to a duels' nature by including some more ramp and some more Sundering and Primeval and Sylvan dudes with high p/t stats.

Edit: Also, there's a trouble with initial colored mana. Once the engine gets moving, everything's fine, but opening with three Plains sucks. Idk what should be done, I don't wanna play painlands and taplands and fastlands and whateverlands, as I like the elegance of the all-basics manabase. Otoh, I was lazy to sort it out like I do it in MWS and in fact it's quite clumsy and futile to do so on a table, so once I'll succumb to the fact that my manabse will be spread all over the place, there's no need to stay away from a Brushland or two.

[Ace/Homebrew]

Also, there's a trouble with initial colored mana. Once the engine gets moving, everything's fine, but opening with three Plains sucks.

Colorless fixing options!

Armillary Sphere
Horizon Spellbomb
Selesnya Signet

[Davran]

Colorless fixing options!

Armillary Sphere
Horizon Spellbomb
Selesnya Signet

Also Wayfarer's Bauble, Burnished Hart, Solemn Simulacrum, and Pilgrim's Eye.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

Colorless fixing options!

Armillary Sphere
Horizon Spellbomb
Selesnya Signet

Unfortunately, these cards lack the small p/t column in their bottom left corner. :tongue: (Yes, left. Heraldics, ya know... :wink:)
There was some card featuring a bear on a flying bicycle that searched for basics. Not that it's that better, I'm just curious what it could be.

I was bit unsatisfied with one deck's feature, the token generators. While they are powerful (esp. Rampaging Baloths and... uhm, Terastodon), I dislike how they force me to have another set of cards (tokens) and another deckbox. It's inelegant once again. Any idea how to solve this? Is there any EDH-friendly deckbox that could engulf the plastic deckbox and have some compartment for tokens, dice, counters, etc.? But that's a different question, though.

I'm uncertain about the gating and stampeding creatures. They're fine when they're working, but being stuck on Roraring Primadox and Indrik Stomphowler was pretty strange, and even though that was really powerful against Pavel, it was sooo slow.

Btw, I still cannot build a non-durdly EDH. While Pavle simply slams one bomb after another, I have a strong urge to twiddle with strange techs and obscure mechanics. At the end, they don't exactly satisfy me (because it's hard to make them work), and I always feel like throwing one beast after another would be more reasonable approach, esp. when under the influence. Sadly, Pavel's got easier times, as it's easier to find bombs for 5c deck, while two-colors pile must work on synergy, unless we're speaking of RW with it's lots and lots of insane dragons, angels, fireballs, removal, mass LD, etc. Also, GW combination is quite... uhm... peaceful (if you got the idea), as lots of "bombs" just gain life, draw cards, etc. But well, thats the color pie. One cannot have say Identity Crisis or Starstorm in each color.

Also, my deck is pretty vulnerable to flying creatures. Hurricane? Rather Cloudthresher, yes?

I know it's too soon to make any conclusions after some fifteen games (including ones against powerful competitive decks), but I feel like some insane dudes would be better than lots of shitty techs. One thing though... I should decide if I'll keep it as a dual deck for both 1v1 and multiplayer games. Because those titans... man... those titans! :laugh:

[Bed Decks Palyer]

I know it's too soon to make any conclusions after some fifteen games (including ones against powerful competitive decks), but I feel like some insane dudes would be better than lots of shitty techs. One thing though... I should decide if I'll keep it as a dual deck for both 1v1 and multiplayer games. Because those titans... man... those titans! :laugh:
Incoming Text Message!

So, after a Legacy portion of today's evening was over, we went to a restaurant with Martin (Sloshthedark here) and Pavel (datanaga on the same source). As Slosh doesn't even EDH, it was up to Pavel to defeat my pile of brokeness. And he done well!

I won't go into much detail, but a 1:6 results speaks for itself. Basically it was all about his bombs being more bomby than mine, his ramp being more rampy and his general being generally more general than my sleeping beauty aka Karametra "Who On Earth Earthquaked My Llanowar Elves?", Goddess on Uselessness.
Frankly, all the tricks and treats are funny, but at the end it boild down to whoever results bigger monster and who's genral deals more dmg. Kara it ain't. you know that when you got some 25 lands out and are still cold to a 5/5 arplane, something about your deck sucks; I'd guess the design.
But the one I won was pretty epic.

So far I'm done with Karametra. Even though I may redesign the deck, it's too weak, needs too much support and her ability is more cute than really good. She's got nice art, but well, so does Sigarda.
Also, the gating and stampeding creatures suck. Again, they do wonders in conjunction, but that wonder results in what, a 3/3 beast token here and there, some crappy minicombo, a land or two ramped out of deck. Bah. Needz moar powah! Slam one monster after another, etc.

It still strikes me how inefficient this color combination is speaking of some aspects, e.g. fight on stack, etc. I lost a locked game, one that I'd won after I had all my lands out, ready for insane Genesis Waves, etc. But then just: boom! some sweeper flushed away my board and hurr, hurr, 5 haste vigilnce trample general dmg. Trying to resolve a bomb? Ok, nice try, not will you deal with a 5/5 Draining Whelk. Also, DEN is plain silly. Idk why it isn't banned.

Nevermind. I still like the elegance of straight GW, but I got some ideas:

1) Sigarda Voltron. Quite obv deck, but w-e. I may be less of a kid and go with Krond.
2) Creatures horde, preferably with Gaddock or Saffi. (Or Krond. I got a soft spot for flying lions.)
3) the "iconical" GW general: Rhys, the Redeemed. One cannot be more GW, amirite?

Than there's always the option of some splash. There's even an option of a real tri-color deck. I really love Murmuring Bosk. And if only there'd be a GBW Elven legend, I'd go for a Tribal EDH that world has never seen before. :smile:
Otoh, what else is that 0/5 stump than Doran, the City-Tree?

[Bed Decks Palyer]

I got it.


You know how I bought the green deckbox and the white deckbox to form a bi-color green-white deckbox? Guess what happened with the spare parts. And no, don't even start thinking I got my tokens in it, that'll be silly...

I'll make one GW Sigarda Voltron.
and I'll make one WG Creaturegeddon. It won't be using Geddons, of course... maybe. Simply a creature horde with something added,. I'm not sure what. BLast. To. Play.

Wow. I'm pure genius. I'll get to play my beloved GW combination with two completely different decks and strategies! Lovely!

[cab0747]

Be careful with Voltron in EDH. It can become a real snooze-fest!

[Bed Decks Palyer]

Be careful with Voltron in EDH. It can become a real snooze-fest!
Man, I just solitaried the thing in MWS and you speak truth. :cry:
But then again what else should one build around Sigarda?

I like some of these ideas:
- Sigarda vs. Krond Voltron that needs not much explanation.
- Tolsimir Wolfblood Hybrid Selesnya Aggro with busted dudes like Wilt-Leaf Liege, Oversoul of Dusk, Loxodon Smiter, Fleecemane Lion, Juniper Order Druid and such.
- Trostani's Chorus with heaps of ramp and etb triggers.
- Oldschool GW "build around" one of the original GW Legends; silly idea, isn't?

[cab0747]

I have never been a fan of Green and White in EDH: Either it is straight forward with Aura Voltron, or it involves tokens (and since games go forever, counters/tokens get hard to keep track of). I played a Ghave, Guru of Spores deck one time before I grew tired of keeping track of all of the tokens and counters.

If you want to add another color, GWB opens you up to some fun possibilities: Karador can do some really fun stuff with ditching creatures into your yeard and brining them back out. It has a GW aggro feel while still being able to use (and sometimes abuse) the graveyard. Doran is HILARIOUS and is a nice twist on aggro. You can really open yourself up to some new cards when you use him. Also, having a 5/5 for 3 is never bad :)

[Davran]

What about something silly and completely uncharted like Sigarda lands.dek? Run stuff like Exploration, Horn of Greed, Burgeoning and Asuza to find ye olde Thespian's Stage + Dark Depths "combo" with like...Knight of the Reliquary back-up. Plan B could be a couple of Sword of X and Y or whatever in case someone eats one of the lands somehow. Then you stuff the rest of the deck full of jank like Tempt with Discovery, Realms Uncharted and so on plus about 50 lands of varying utility and/or basic-ness and go to town. You get access to white removal like swords, utility dorks like Hushwing Gryff (which doesn't affect you at all save maybe an Eternal Witness or something) and maybe a couple of fatties (e.g. Terravore) as Plan C.

Then you're either on the lands matter game, the voltron game, or the smash face game depending what your draw looks like.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

I have never been a fan of Green and White in EDH: Either it is straight forward with Aura Voltron, or it involves tokens (and since games go forever, counters/tokens get hard to keep track of). I played a Ghave, Guru of Spores deck one time before I grew tired of keeping track of all of the tokens and counters.

If you want to add another color, GWB opens you up to some fun possibilities: Karador can do some really fun stuff with ditching creatures into your yeard and brining them back out. It has a GW aggro feel while still being able to use (and sometimes abuse) the graveyard. Doran is HILARIOUS and is a nice twist on aggro. You can really open yourself up to some new cards when you use him. Also, having a 5/5 for 3 is never bad :)

Well, I twiddle with this is because I want to stay true to GW, mostly for a petty reasons like that it was my first beloved colour combination, I like the elegance of bi-color (and for that matter: GW) build, moreover Karador or Teneb are a bit predictable. Doran isn't, I guess; shame that are so few black elves, I'd build a GWB Elves with Doran as their city-tree.

I definitely won't build anything with counters and tokens, it's annoying. I even realized I hate my sole three token generators, Thragtusk, Terastodon and especially Rampaging Baloths, who are pretty powerful in Karametra deck, yet also pretty bothersome. I'm inclined to simply ditch the whole tokens (maybe even Terastodon, it's pretty humiliating to lose to my own tokens) and simply build a straightforward GW aggro with Tolsimir Wolfblood at helm. Otoh, it's begging for troubles, as removing Tolsimir halfway through combat step might be tragic. Still, it's either him or Sigarda.

Pity the price of everything, I'd love to brew, but I got nearly nothing left on my MKM account, and I don't feel like wasting cash on this. I think I'll try some builds in MWS to see how they goldfish to get grip of mana problems, overall flow and feel of the deck and lets see what will come out of it.

[cab0747]

Where are you looking to play this deck? Kitchen table with friends? LGS with semi-serious EDH players?

If you are looking for some kitchen table fun, you can pretty much do anything. Tolsimir aggro could work. Green with ramp and big fatties to play always has a chance in EDH.

I have played both casual and semi-competitive games. I MUCH prefer the casual games. You can experiment with pet decks that may not be cut-throat, but are very fun to play. I hope you find what you are looking for! It is a very fun format. :)

[Bed Decks Palyer]

Where are you looking to play this deck? Kitchen table with friends? LGS with semi-serious EDH players?

If you are looking for some kitchen table fun, you can pretty much do anything. Tolsimir aggro could work. Green with ramp and big fatties to play always has a chance in EDH.

I have played both casual and semi-competitive games. I MUCH prefer the casual games. You can experiment with pet decks that may not be cut-throat, but are very fun to play. I hope you find what you are looking for! It is a very fun format. :)

Well, it's easier than that: I'm going to play mostly 1v1 with a friend of mine who's got his savage Horde of Budget Cards. (http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/horde-of-budget-cards/) I'm not completely against 2v2 (or any othe multiplayer), but those games tend to become really long, tedious, unending and all about politics, which I dislike; I wanna play the game of Magic, not manipulate people, take care of million triggers, wait for my turn like it's HoM&M3 Month4, Week4, Day7.

There are weekly 1v1 Commander tournaments in our lgs, I may practise from time to time. But mostly it's meant for the pub.
I think I'll acquire some amount of useful cards and start there brewing...

PS: Doran, hm? I like the RGW dual. And I like how black improves the removal suite. I must keep this possibility in mind!

[Bed Decks Palyer]

Ok, I know I'm a pussy and intolerable, and that I change my mind more often than a small girl, but w/e.
BGW it'll be. GW's inability to make some of the more important things, and my inability to choose one of the more important EDH aspect (you know: who will be the general) was a bit bothersome. I just don't know if I should use:
- Doran; offers interesting ability, is easy to play, starts beating as soon as turn2, and gets insane with cheap +0/+X enhancements
- Teneb; flies over stalls, isn't a completely bad general, doesn't depend on my own grave
- Karador; most efficient gy-based general, but pretty much predictable like Venezuelan telenovelle, makes nothing in face of gy hosers

The reasons why to go Abzan:
- Murmuring Bosk
- Krosan Verge and Murmuring Bosk
- heavy removal suite
- lots of interesting etb dudes
- access to more bombs than in straight GW
- more CA
- potential for Reanimate and LftL subtheme.
- discard suite may matter (Identity Crisis, Mind Twist substitutions)
- several other tricks
- surprisingly, it has better fixation possibilites with all the "tap: add black" elves...
- ...and signets
- more colourful manabase

The reasons why to not go Abzan:
- I won't be playing tutors (except maybe for GSZ), they distract
- I'll try to stay away from fugly cards
- I hope I won't get mad of my manabase
- I may bother my friends with Identity Twists (but I won't)
- more expensive than Selesnya
- more colourful manabase (I'm a great fan of uniformity)

So far I'm undecided on the general, but I guess it doesn't matter that much, Ghave is bothersome and of the remaining three, Doran needs different approach. I'll settle with Teneb for now. I dislike the durdly nature of Karador deck, but maybe, maybe...
I'll try to stay away from Cool Things. A simple deck with simple plan. Also: absolutely no tokens and counters. I'm even considering to drop Terastoslon, but maybe I'll keep this one.

[cab0747]

Awesome! I'm happy you landed on one.

Just to stir the pot: If you are looking for an aggro strategy, Doran can really be a champ. Between Indomitable Ancients, Guiltfeeder and Tangle Angler, you get some AMAZING value when playing Doran :laugh:

[Bed Decks Palyer]

Awesome! I'm happy you landed on one.
Yeah, I'm too, it was a hard decision! http://i1196.photobucket.com/albums/aa416/Goldduzt1/SMFETFRK/06.gif /1stworldtroubles



Just to stir the pot: If you are looking for an aggro strategy, Doran can really be a champ. Between Indomitable Ancients, Guiltfeeder and Tangle Angler, you get some AMAZING value when playing Doran :laugh:
Yep, I remembered all the cmc2-4 treefolk with "1/11 first strike" and "2/28 regenerate" stats and thought they'll be hilarious with Doran, but then I settled on something more serious! :laugh:

[Ace/Homebrew]

You know, I heard a rumor that a whole block focusing on wedge colors will be spoiled soon! :tongue:

Wait 2 weeks or whatever to see what :w::b::g: generals they make before spending significant time/effort/money on a dude you feel luke-warm about.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

You know, I heard a rumor that a whole block focusing on wedge colors will be spoiled soon! :tongue:

Wait 2 weeks or whatever to see what :w::b::g: generals they make before spending significant time/effort/money on a dude you feel luke-warm about.

YEah, you'Re right. I'm so much happy of the wedge taplands, that I completely missed the obvious fact that there should be some wedge dudes... :laugh:

[Davran]

YEah, you'Re right. I'm so much happy of the wedge taplands, that I completely missed the obvious fact that there should be some wedge dudes... :laugh:

Yeah, me too. I'm really hoping for wedge Panoramas too (i.e. Jund Panorama).

[Bed Decks Palyer]

Yeah, me too. I'm really hoping for wedge Panoramas too (i.e. Jund Panorama).

Yep, those wil be lovely!