Khans of Tarkir: [Archive] - Page 2

Vicar in a tutu

08-19-2014, 06:07 PM

I feel the same pain that many eternal-fans on this forum feels. Many new mechanics seem interesting (Bestow, Devotion), but everything is overcosted and very little makes it to Eternal. People saying that the card has to be busted to make a dent in legacy, are wrong. I don't think people expect a Deathrite Shaman from every set. Sometimes cards new to legacy take a while to work (example: Thespian's Stage, a wonderful card). These are examples of cards from recents sets that have had an impact on legacy, if ever so small (I include fringe sideboard cards here, like Blind Obedience, and cards that are only played maindeck in fringe decks, like Thragtusk in G/B Nic-Fit).

Commander 2011: Scavenging Ooze, Flusterstorm
Commander 2014: Toxic Deluge, True-Name Nemesis

Planechase 2012: Baleful Strix, Shardless Agent

Magic 2012: Phantasmal Image
Magic 2013: Master of the Pearl Trident, Omniscience, Krenko, Thragtusk,
Magic 2014: Galerider Sliver, Tidebinder Mage, Young Pyromancer, Predatory Silver
Magic 2015: Void Snare, Reclamation Sage, Sliver Hive

Return to Ravnica: Abrupt Decay, Deathrite Shaman, Rest in Peace, Supreme Verdict, Golgari Charm, Detention Sphere, Loxodon Smiter, Rakdos Charm, Slaughter Games, Judge's Familiar, Nivmagus Elemental,
Gatecrash: Blind Obedience, Enter the Infinite, Balustrade Spy, Thespian's Stage, Skullcrack,
Dragon's Maze: Notion Thief, Ruric Thar, Wear/Tear

Theros: Swansong
Born of the Gods: Brimaz, Spirit of the Labyrinth, Searing Blood
Journey Into Nyx: Aegis of the Gods, Eidolon of the Great Revel, Prophetic Flamespeaker, Mana Confluence

Now, many of these cards are very fringe, like Prophetic Flamespeaker which I have seen in a few red dragon stompy lists. But Wizards have printed quite a few cards for legacy the last few years, but they have been unevenly distributed (Return to Ravnica was a huge legacy-hit, Dragon's Maze was quite bad).

Only a few cards have been detrimental to the format. True-Name Nemesis should have borrowed a similar phrase from Silvergill Adept "As an additional cost to cast TNN, reveal a merfolk from your hand or pay X". That would have kept it out of the blue goodstuff-decks and "just" made it a staple in merfolk-decks. As for it being impossible to design cards for legacy that are not horribly broken and not automatically jammed into blue goodstuff-decks, here are some cards I made recently:

Emerald Aurora:1::g:
Enchantment
When Emerald Aurora enters the battlefield, draw a card.
Your lands have Hexproof.

Sisters of the Moongate :1::w:
Legendary Creature - Human Wizard
Flash.
If a creature would enter the battlefield from its owner's hand without being cast, exile it instead.
2/1

Goblin Cursechanter :1::r:
Creature - Goblin Shaman
Blue creatures get -1/-1
2/1

Nature's Path :g:
Instant
Look at the top three cards of your library and put two of them into your graveyard. Then reveal the top card of your library. If it's a creature or land, put it into your hand and gain 2 life.

Goblin Flagbearer :r:
Creature - Goblin Soldier
Goblin spells cost :1: less to cast
1/2

Lord Seth

08-19-2014, 06:14 PM

What? :confused:

Do you have a source before I lose the little rest of hope left in humanity? And even then, Bored of the Gods and Journey into Dicks weren't that great, otherwise revenue wouldn't have plateau'ed the first time in years since Q2/14.I can't find a source that says Theros was definitely bestselling. I found some answers at Mark Rosewater's blog, like this (http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/84061166839/what-is-currently-the-best-selling-block-of-all-time), that say Theros might have surpassed Return to Ravnica, but nothing that says Theros definitely was.

For whatever it’s worth, I did have a lengthy discussion with a store owner I know about what sets were selling, figuring that he would be in a good position to know. He gave me the following ranking of how well the sets Ravnica and after did, from most popular to least popular: (a few sets are put together because he said they sold about the same)
#1. Return to Ravnica
#2. Theros
#3. Magic 2014
#4. Gatecrash/Journey into Nyx
#5. Born of the Gods/Dragon's Maze

He said it was too early to definitively place Magic 2015 anywhere, but said that at the moment it looked like it would be ranked about where Theros is.

You guys need to learn how to draft or something and not expect Legacy cards from every set. Enchantments did matter quite a bit in Standard and Draft actually and it's hard to make good Legacy cards, especially Enchantments, that wouldn't ruin their cash cow.I played Standard, and I don't remember enchantments mattering much at all. Okay, there were cards that were enchantments that mattered, but them being an enchantment was incidental to that, e.g. Courser of Kruphix.

menace13

08-19-2014, 06:21 PM

I can't find a source that says Theros was definitely bestselling.

Theros is currently the best-selling Magic set of all time.

http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mm/state-design-2014
Second paragraph second line.

Barook

08-19-2014, 07:03 PM

#1. Return to Ravnica
#2. Theros
#3. Magic 2014
#4. Gatecrash/Journey into Nyx
#5. Born of the Gods/Dragon's Maze

He said it was too early to definitively place Magic 2015 anywhere, but said that at the moment it looked like it would be ranked about where Theros is.
The worst sets selling worst isn't too suprising. That the big sets sell the most isn't too suprising, either, since they're a core part of the Standard format and are in the format the longest.

But what puzzles me is how Theros could outsell RtR. Probably more players with lower standards? Was the Limited format that much fun? (I doubt it)

Given that trend, Khans of Tarkir is probably going to outsell Theros.

Koby

08-19-2014, 07:05 PM

Barook

08-19-2014, 07:13 PM

WotC-speak: "Theros is the best selling set OF ALL TIME!!!"
Hasbro-speak: "Magic sales YTD 2014 are flat compared to YTD 2013"

Actually means: "Magic is more popular than ever. Excitement for Magic sets is plateauing"

It's like saying cocaine is having its best year of sales ever, oh and don't mind we have seen addicts rise by 30% compared to last year.
Actually, wasn't it just the Q2/14 report where sales stagnated, which wouldn't be too suprising with BNG bombing and JOU being a third set/not being the greatest thing either?

Koby

08-19-2014, 09:12 PM

Actually, wasn't it just the Q2/14 report where sales stagnated, which wouldn't be too suprising with BNG bombing and JOU being a third set/not being the greatest thing either?

As were GTC and DGM. Theros only selling more on volume rather than demand (a la RTR). That's why there is this disparity between perceived best received set (RTR) vs most consumed (THS). You have to credit Organized Play, they make opening boosters a prime directive. Prerelease has been hyping that up part of the machine for a while now.

If they only got rid of seeded packs, I would be a happy camper.

I will probably be playing a lot of KTK sealed all told.

Lord Seth

08-19-2014, 09:15 PM

The worst sets selling worst isn't too suprising. That the big sets sell the most isn't too suprising, either, since they're a core part of the Standard format and are in the format the longest.

But what puzzles me is how Theros could outsell RtR. Probably more players with lower standards? Was the Limited format that much fun? (I doubt it)

Given that trend, Khans of Tarkir is probably going to outsell Theros.I, at least, thought Standard was pretty fun when just Theros was out. It wasn't until Born of the Gods was released that it stagnated into a boring sea of Monoblack decks.

HammafistRoob

08-20-2014, 01:14 AM

What if we do draft but think Theros limited sucked?

It's very simple really. You take all the money you would have spent draftingand buy a metric fuckton of jelly donuts.

You cannibal.

Bed Decks Palyer

08-20-2014, 10:35 AM

I just can't even take this thread seriously for some reason. Must be that whole thing where we have the actual text of 4 new cards in a new set, and every Chicken Little is all piss and vinegar. Already?? Jesus, Lemnear, I'm calling you out - this isn't even hyperbole or flaming, your post history speaks for itself - you don't actually like Magic cards!

In Lemnear's defense: yes, one may be disappointed after four cards spoiled. You know, when someone always tells you "this was my last drink/line/prostitute, I swear, I'll be a good husband, trust me, darling" and then he goes WHOA! a top-down creatures matter gonna beat you if you'll leave me... Bah. So yeah, Lemnear should be annoyed by WotC's continuous cocaine-whores escapades, it gets pretty old.
Look, I'm not against top-down creatures matter and umpteenth remake of kicker, but it doesn't take a genius to realize that this set/block won't be your favourite, if the previous such attempts annoyed the crap out of you; thus the preemptive disappointment.

TsumiBand

08-20-2014, 11:27 AM

In Lemnear's defense: yes, one may be disappointed after four cards spoiled. You know, when someone always tells you "this was my last drink/line/prostitute, I swear, I'll be a good husband, trust me, darling" and then he goes WHOA! a top-down creatures matter gonna beat you if you'll leave me... Bah. So yeah, Lemnear should be annoyed by WotC's continuous cocaine-whores escapades, it gets pretty old.
Look, I'm not against top-down creatures matter and umpteenth remake of kicker, but it doesn't take a genius to realize that this set/block won't be your favourite, if the previous such attempts annoyed the crap out of you; thus the preemptive disappointment.

Well to an extent it's the difference between Chroma and Devotion though, right -- Chroma is a series of bad cards without decks to complement them, and Devotion is a Real Deck in Standard. There's hardly a difference between their execution, save the Devotion cards are typically stronger than any of the Chroma junk, and it's also executed in a number of more (imho) interesting ways. I personally think the idea of proving devotion before the God cards 'manifest' as creatures is great - forget the Legacy playability of said effects, it's essentially the same dish with a better presentation.

You're right to remind that 'everything is basically kicker' because the whole idea of spending more mana to do more things is kind of a repeated theme of the game, from individual mechanics to X spells to a card-by-card basis -- spend :b: on a spell, it has a certain kind of possible effect; spend :2::b::b: on a spell, it should be a 'higher-level' effect. So really the setting and the presentation of the mechanic, whatever variant of 'kicker' or 'if (condition is true) do_cool_things()' we see next, has to be taken within the entire scope of its presentation. I think Chrome vs. Devotion goes a long way towards proving that. Say what you want about the block's Legacy impact; it does showcase that there's a right way and a wrong way to rehash a mechanic.

So even if they manage to break totally from that and create something entirely unseen before, the execution is crucial and needs to be seen in its entirety. If the mechanic is a rebaked relic from prior times in Magic, it may have returned with a vengeance - it needs to be seen in its entirety. In either case, four cards in is still way too early to assess the set in earnest.

HSCK

08-20-2014, 01:05 PM

Aggro_zombies

08-20-2014, 02:57 PM

You're right to remind that 'everything is basically kicker' because the whole idea of spending more mana to do more things is kind of a repeated theme of the game, from individual mechanics to X spells to a card-by-card basis -- spend :b: on a spell, it has a certain kind of possible effect; spend :2::b::b: on a spell, it should be a 'higher-level' effect. So really the setting and the presentation of the mechanic, whatever variant of 'kicker' or 'if (condition is true) do_cool_things()' we see next, has to be taken within the entire scope of its presentation. I think Chrome vs. Devotion goes a long way towards proving that. Say what you want about the block's Legacy impact; it does showcase that there's a right way and a wrong way to rehash a mechanic.
I'd be willing to bet that a plurality of Magic's mechanics are reducible either to a variant of kicker or a variant of channel.

Lemnear

08-20-2014, 03:01 PM

Isn't Khans bottom up though?

I thought it was announced as that. I'm maybe wrong here, but does that mean that this time, they build the world and cards around the mechanics and not create mechanics and cards to fit the worlds theme? I'm seriously wondering if we even notice the difference in the end :/

TsumiBand

08-20-2014, 03:10 PM

I'd be willing to bet that a plurality of Magic's mechanics are reducible either to a variant of kicker or a variant of channel.

Yeah, pretty much.

There is the occasional Threshold that comes along and depends on a zone, but that's still IMHO an if/else: if (graveyard has 7 or more cards in it) { Mystic Enforcer is a motherfucker; }. And really, even Channel is tantamount to like a split card or whatever; the subtleties of abilities vs. spells aside, what are you doing exactly? You're paying a cost, putting a card in the graveyard, and seeing an effect. It's just an Instant. That it 'lives' on a Creature card is what makes it more like a split card than anything else; you are either casting the creature or using the ability as an Instant-speed effect, and just reversing the order of resolution and graveyarding the card doesn't make it so different from what we've always done with Instant spells.

The presence of "ability words" is at once helpful and harmful in tracking this stuff, because quite often the word itself does nothing, it's just a placeholder. Again looking at Threshold; what difference is there between a card that says

"This gets +3/+3 as long as seven or more cards are in your graveyard."

vs

"Threshold - This gets +3/+3 as long as seven or more cards are in your graveyard."

The word itself doesn't really *do* anything, at least not anymore; originally Threshold implied the "7 cards in the grave" bit, but no longer is that the case (thanks Oracle). Instead the word just reminds us that "hey, this card happens to have thematically fitting words that change its state in a particular way". The impetus to make the word cohesive and meaningful falls on creative at that point, right? To present that ability word in such a context that the execution of getting those 7 cards in the bin and the resultant effect have a unique and/or cohesive theme to them, and that helps power the block and define it as separate from the other blocks in the game. When they do it well, I don't think anyone cares that a given keyword/ability word is just another kicker. When they fuck it up though, everyone will quickly point out the emperor has no bloody clothes on.

rufus

08-20-2014, 04:01 PM

Yeah, pretty much.

There is the occasional Threshold that comes along and depends on a zone, but that's still IMHO an if/else: if (graveyard has 7 or more cards in it) { Mystic Enforcer is a motherfucker; }...

Chroma - er devotion - is a version of that, right? Seems like plenty of those are on a sliding scale.

It seems like conditional, alternative, and modified casting costs are another big category.

There's a pile of combat related mechanics like evasion and flanking.

Bed Decks Palyer

08-23-2014, 03:50 AM

Isn't Khans bottom up though?
Hard to tell, I don't really read WotC's infotainment articles, moreover I don't even know what does the "bottock-up design" phrase mean.

I'd be willing to bet that a plurality of Magic's mechanics are reducible either to a variant of kicker or a variant of channel.
Yep. Tsumi got it right.

So, do we already know the GBW clan leader?

Sylphnir

08-23-2014, 04:25 AM

So, do we already know the GBW clan leader?
Anafenza? Only her Artwork. Human chick with a sword riding a goat-powered chariot. (Pic1 (http://i.imgur.com/jg1vPdJ.png), Pic2 (http://i.imgur.com/h7mg7ys.png))

Humphrey

08-23-2014, 10:45 AM

Hard to tell, I don't really read WotC's infotainment articles, moreover I don't even know what does the "bottock-up design" phrase mean.

Kahns is bottom up set, Large/small/Large

While Khans of Tarkir is a wedge set, the other sets of the block aren't.
When the second set is released, it will be drafted Set2-KTK-KTK
When the third set is released, it will be drafted Set3-Set3-Set2

Lt. Quattro

08-23-2014, 11:37 AM

Kahns is bottom up set, Large/small/Large

While Khans of Tarkir is a wedge set, the other sets of the block aren't.
When the second set is released, it will be drafted Set2-KTK-KTK
When the third set is released, it will be drafted Set3-Set3-Set2

I thought the bottock-up design meant that they design the world first, then make game mechanics that would fit in it.

Humphrey

08-23-2014, 11:51 AM

I thought the bottock-up design meant that they design the world first, then make game mechanics that would fit in it.

I dont know, thats what Ive found. But well, typical WotC information policy.

Elsewhere I found:

Top down means they come up with the creative, flavour aspects of the set first, then design mechanics to resonate with the creative stuff. Bottom up means they come up with mechanics and then the flavour to explain the mechanics.

Top-down blocks:
Kamigawa (Japanese mythology)
Innistrad (Gothic horror)
Theros (Greek mythology)

Bottom-up blocks:
Lorwyn (Tribal)
Ravnica (Two-colour combinations)
Zendikar (Land set)

TsumiBand

08-25-2014, 06:11 PM

Chroma - er devotion - is a version of that, right? Seems like plenty of those are on a sliding scale.

It seems like conditional, alternative, and modified casting costs are another big category.

There's a pile of combat related mechanics like evasion and flanking.

Yeah combat mechanics sort of have their own niche, don't they. Maybe I overstated the "kicker vs condition" thing, it takes a little too much abstraction to turn, like, first strike into an if/else, and it certainly isn't kicker, so.

To that end, it's a small wonder they'd focus more on battlefield presence than dorking around with spells and the stack. There's a whole host of silly creature abilities that haven't even been dreamed up yet! Slow strike, where your creature gets a bonus but deals its combat damage later than 'regular strike'. Or or or Flarnking, wherein the creature gives counters to dudes that block it, because they're just so silly! Maybe even Digging, as opposed to Flying; cuz they's under the ground and what not. And you have to have a creature that can also Dig to block it, and it's totally not a Shadow redux because if your opponent uses Earthquake it will deal 2x damage to your creatures that are using Dig. :( I HATE THAT

Bed Decks Palyer

08-25-2014, 10:50 PM

Maybe even Digging, as opposed to Flying; cuz they's under the ground and what not.

Tunneling. What you meant is called tunneling.

Dwarven Tunneler :1::r::r:
Creature - Dwarf

~ can't be blocked by creatures
with flying.

Other Dwarf creatures you control get
+1/+1 and can't be blocked by creatures
with flying.
_______________________________ 2/2

Lord Seth

08-26-2014, 12:50 AM

To that end, it's a small wonder they'd focus more on battlefield presence than dorking around with spells and the stack. There's a whole host of silly creature abilities that haven't even been dreamed up yet! Slow strike, where your creature gets a bonus but deals its combat damage later than 'regular strike'.You know, you're suggesting that in jest, but I actually think that's a pretty cool idea, to have a creature with the drawback of dealing damage second. Though you could probably just avoid "slow strike" by making it so that the creatures it blocks/is blocked by get first strike.

TsumiBand

08-26-2014, 09:24 AM

You know, you're suggesting that in jest, but I actually think that's a pretty cool idea, to have a creature with the drawback of dealing damage second. Though you could probably just avoid "slow strike" by making it so that the creatures it blocks/is blocked by get first strike.

The only reason it's in jest is because they've apparently gone on record saying that slow strike won't ever happen. Largely because the rules that implement first strike and double strike are actually fairly more complex than they seem like they'd need to be -- mostly because the rules want to avoid 'fogging' a creature by toggling it through various damage steps. You can't, for example, cause a creature to gain first strike with the proper timing to avoid it dealing combat damage during either the first strike combat damage step or the regular damage step. So introducing slow strike/last strike just puts another layer of 'no you cannot do that' into the comp rules for each potential interaction with gaining or losing first strike/double strike/slow strike with various timing. (actually i feel like it's easier to just lock in the number of 'strike steps' at the head of the combat step and just make one rules to ignore individual 'changes to 'strike' abilities' at that point, but wtf do I know I'm not a rules guy)

Though I do think your particular implementation is something that's been done before. I think also this lets them pre-emptively avoid the off-chance of printing something with legitimate 'triple strike' :P there's your power creep right there. Sure I'll take three triggers of Jitte this combat, seems fair.

Tylert

08-26-2014, 09:55 AM

Just to clarify the notion of Top-Down and Bottom-up:

Top down: You have the flavor and design a cool card out of it (It's a stromg vampire: Let's make a 4/4 lifelink creature, that can change into a 2/2 flying bat!!)
Bottom-up: You have the mechanisms and the design and you come out with a cool flavor (We need a 2/2 first strike creature... ok, let's say this clan has some archers...)

btm10

08-26-2014, 11:14 AM

You guys need to learn how to draft or something and not expect Legacy cards from every set. Enchantments did matter quite a bit in Standard and Draft actually and it's hard to make good Legacy cards, especially Enchantments, that wouldn't ruin their cash cow.

There's a lot they could have done with Enchantments to attract attention in Legacy, though - we have a whole (fringe, at this point) deck built around them, and it would be pretty good if it had any sort of stack interaction. Making Banishing Light's ability an "As" rather than "when" ability would've solved one of Enchantress's biggest problems.

A Lifeforce/Deathgrip variant at GW, WW, or GG that cared about something other the color of the spells would've been snapped up immediately. Stony Silence is widely run in sideboards and never caused a problem in Standard. Rest in Peace is pretty good in Legacy.

Darkenslight

08-29-2014, 07:07 AM

The Buy-A-Box promo is actually moderately relevant:

Mystic Songclaw :1: :g:
Creature - Human Shaman
Tap: add :g: , :u: or :r: to your mana pool.
Morph :2:
When ~ is turned face-up, add :g: :u: :r: to your mana pool.
2/1

Barook

08-29-2014, 07:13 AM

Damn shame Wizards shifts mana accelerants towards the 2 mana slot.

Best case scenario would be:

T1 Land, Mana dork (aka DRS)
T2 Land, Play this as Morph
T3 Land, unmorph this, tap this (4 mana) + another potential mana from a third land and the other mana dork each, resulting in 6 mana on T3.

The body seems alright since he can beat, but nothing too stellar.

rufus

08-29-2014, 09:37 AM

Damn shame Wizards shifts mana accelerants towards the 2 mana slot.
...

He's 2 mana to play face up, and net 2 mana to play face down and flip. I'm not sure acceleration is an appropriate description.

TsumiBand

08-29-2014, 09:56 AM

There's probably some kind of infinite combo with Weaver of Lies and Master of the Veil, but I don't want to know about it.

It's okay. vOv It's kind of neat to be able to decide whether your 'acceleration' is an Elves or a Ritual, I guess.

Darkenslight

08-29-2014, 10:49 AM

TsumiBand

08-29-2014, 01:57 PM

Not an Elf, but a Human.

I was referring to the execution.

You either tap it for 1 mana (like a Llanowar Elves/Hierarch/Birds/whatever) or you pay 2 for 3 mana - like Cabal Ritual/Desparate Ritual/etc. I suppose it's a bit different because after the fact you can tap it again so really it's 4 mana, but again -- whateeeeeeever.

Mostly I was thinking about the opening hand. You're evaluating your 7 and going "how does this card do the most work - play it early and get the 1 mana per turn, or play it later and then get 3 mana + 1 for tapping and hope my opponent doesn't skunk it first".

Darkenslight

08-29-2014, 05:03 PM

I was referring to the execution.

You either tap it for 1 mana (like a Llanowar Elves/Hierarch/Birds/whatever) or you pay 2 for 3 mana - like Cabal Ritual/Desparate Ritual/etc. I suppose it's a bit different because after the fact you can tap it again so really it's 4 mana, but again -- whateeeeeeever.

Mostly I was thinking about the opening hand. You're evaluating your 7 and going "how does this card do the most work - play it early and get the 1 mana per turn, or play it later and then get 3 mana + 1 for tapping and hope my opponent doesn't skunk it first".

OH yeah, it's an interesting dynamic, but then most of the morph cards were.

iamajellydonut

08-29-2014, 05:12 PM

How to make every single morph card absolutely terrible:
Cost Morph at 3cc.

Design flaw of the century.

TsumiBand

08-30-2014, 12:20 PM

How to make every single morph card absolutely terrible:
Cost Morph at 3cc.

Design flaw of the century.

Exalted Angel would like a word with you.

Though really, I suspect that if Morph were coming around for the first time in this block instead of in the Onslaught days - where they actually didn't want to give every color a 2/2 for :2: - it might have been so.

Personally I don't see any issue with a 2/2 for 3 that carries the potential to be a game-changer. The *real* mistake, IMHO, was insisting on doing a lot of things where the morph cost was too close to the actual casting cost. Grinning Demon should have cost :b::b: to flip, for example - it's a 6/6 with a 2 life upkeep, I think I *ought* to be able to be sneaky and play it like a legit combat trick instead of blowing :2::b::b: on it.

Megadeus

08-30-2014, 03:30 PM

Hopefully we get a Bane of the Living reprint. I'd play that instandard

Amon Amarth

08-31-2014, 01:34 AM

Fetch lands in KTK.

No, seriously, like actually-actually getting reprinted.

https://twitter.com/cspranklerun/status/505952061402255362/photo/1

Lemnear

08-31-2014, 01:51 AM

Fetch lands in KTK.

No, seriously, like actually-actually getting reprinted.

https://twitter.com/cspranklerun/status/505952061402255362/photo/1

Yeah, another Expansion with Reprints being the packsellers /:

apple713

08-31-2014, 01:54 AM

Oh god they are so ugly

Lemnear

08-31-2014, 01:59 AM

Oh god they are so ugly

Not ugly enough. They should be whiteboarded at least.

J-Funk

08-31-2014, 02:03 AM

Can't wait to piss people off with my foil new-bordered fetches.

Barook

08-31-2014, 02:13 AM

Just sold off all my ONS fetches and completed my collection of duals online while prices for fetches were still high and duals still low. Feels good, man! :cool:

Out of the spoiled cards, those are interesting imho:

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/attachments/131/266/635450309407821399.jpg

Delve is back! It's the BUG mechanic.

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/attachments/131/264/635450306835084507.jpg

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/attachments/131/267/635450309430085945.jpg
Junk is about counters, appearently.

iamajellydonut

08-31-2014, 02:30 AM

What the fuck is with the bullet point choices? And why not just reprint Tombstalker? Its not much better, but it certainly replaces Tombstalker in any deck that runs him.

Also, I feel like this printing of fetchlands in Modern is a firm attempt to make it "new Legacy".

Lord Seth

08-31-2014, 02:41 AM

Oh god they are so uglyBloodstained Mire and Wooded Foothills look fine. Polluted Delta is too dark to really tell from this angle. Windswept Heath is meh. Flooded Strand is the only one that I think actively looks flat-out bad, though I'll admit it might just be the angle.

Dark Ritual

08-31-2014, 02:45 AM

They reprinted onslaught fetches because modern having access to just half felt wrong to everybody. That and they do complete cycles of dual lands in fall blocks now/they weren't going to reprint just the enemy fetchlands but not allied.

They probably reprinted fetchlands just for delve :tongue:

New fetches look fine. Old fetches don't look good either like flooded strand from onslaught is pitiful. New wooded foothills is very nice. At least wait for high resolution scans to appear before judging art though as right now all the photos of new fetches aren't exactly optimal.

Sloshthedark

08-31-2014, 03:01 AM

Wow, I thought that was reveal your favorite faery shit, so ugly, putting this in play in legacy is embarassing and the holo *blarg*... and ~ -1000$ for getting up an hour too late, what a great start of the day

Tokugawa

08-31-2014, 03:14 AM

ONS fetches art are not outstanding(not like Rob Alexander's awesome RAV shocklands). Glad to see them got new art.

UnsungHero

08-31-2014, 03:16 AM

Even though the new border will never live up to the old border, the fact that these fetches can come in Russian and Korean is pretty awesome.

Sylphnir

08-31-2014, 03:19 AM

MaRo also posted the new Sarkhan - monored this time.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BwVs8J9CQAAxuj-.jpg

Darkenslight

08-31-2014, 03:24 AM

Even though the new border will never live up to the old border, the fact that these fetches can come in Russian and Korean is pretty awesome.

Mmm....Foil Russian Delta. *drools*

Having said that, there's also Crackling Doom:

:r: :w: :b:
Instant
Deals 2 damasge to each creature each opponent controls. Then, each opponent sacrifices a creature with the greatest power amongst those he or she controls.

big_ticket

08-31-2014, 03:24 AM

very nice the fethces are reprinted,regular rare's only

marax

08-31-2014, 03:33 AM

@Darkenslight:
It (Cackling Doom) only deals 2 dmg to all your opponents but not to any creatures. It is basically an edict with a big upside.

joven

08-31-2014, 03:34 AM

I knew they would reprint Onslaught Fetchies. It was about time. The new artwork is awful, probably by design.
Question is what it will do to the prices longterm (after they fall out of Standard again). Can Zendikar Fetchies sink a bit in price now that Modern has more Fetchies of other colors?

Delve comes a little bit unexpected but could fit (flavorwise), we'll see. They probably should reprint all three Delve cards from Future Sight to give them their rightful home. Poor Tombstalker will lose in value even more, especially since they made the mistake to have reprinted it in Modern Masters for no reason.

Aggro_zombies

08-31-2014, 03:37 AM

The new Charm layout looks like a bad Powerpoint slide.

I'm disappointed Delve is back. Cost-reducing mechanics are generally good, but they're also really boring. A lot of the time, they encourage you to print overcosted spells so that it feels like your mechanic is doing something, and then maybe a couple of cards that are basically costed correctly but are bonkers because you can make them cheaper. It also doesn't help that delving the first time makes all your subsequent delves worse, which means you're either on suicide self-mill or only running a few delve cards in your deck.

Outlast is whatever, but it might be notable for being the first mechanic with a tap symbol embedded in the reminder text.

Five bucks says Temur is Naya 2.0, except it cares about 4+ power and has an ability word associated with it so that even the really dim players understand that Temur is about liking 4+ power things.

blackheartz

08-31-2014, 03:41 AM

Wild guess: This set will sell more than Theros. :tongue:

joven

08-31-2014, 03:49 AM

I'm disappointed Delve is back. Cost-reducing mechanics are generally good, but they're also really boring. A lot of the time, they encourage you to print overcosted spells so that it feels like your mechanic is doing something, and then maybe a couple of cards that are basically costed correctly but are bonkers because you can make them cheaper. It also doesn't help that delving the first time makes all your subsequent delves worse, which means you're either on suicide self-mill or only running a few delve cards in your deck.

I think Delve is a bit boring because it only uses cards in graveyards. The Sultai "ambition" could have been much more. I hope they will do other stuff without keyword.
True, Delve is what I would describe as "not synergetic to itself". The new demon eats its own resources when its cast so you have trouble to use its ability. Seems unpractical, especially with further cards with Delve in your deck.

Five bucks says Temur is Naya 2.0, except it cares about 4+ power and has an ability word associated with it so that even the really dim players understand that Temur is about liking 4+ power things.

There is no keyword on "Temur Ascendancy".

Aggro_zombies

08-31-2014, 04:02 AM

There is no keyword on "Temur Ascendancy".
I remember reading MaRo saying somewhere that he wished he had keyworded Naya's 5+ power thing because some players didn't get it and thought Naya didn't have a mechanic. /shrug

theBloody

08-31-2014, 04:47 AM

Reprinted fetchlands can lure more people to legacy tournaments. I like that.

Zombie

08-31-2014, 06:23 AM

I remember reading MaRo saying somewhere that he wished he had keyworded Naya's 5+ power thing because some players didn't get it and thought Naya didn't have a mechanic. /shrug

o_o'

Barook

08-31-2014, 06:39 AM

o_o'
These are the people Wizards caters to nowadays.

easysantiago

08-31-2014, 06:42 AM

Zombie

08-31-2014, 07:22 AM

It's fun when buying game pieces is subject to rampant speculation and skyhigh prices, right?

Kage

08-31-2014, 07:34 AM

I'll take ugly fetches for 10-20$ bucks insted of 40-100$ thank you very much.

Also that charm and edict is quite good (not necessarily in terms of legacy), good to see delve returning.

But yeah let's complain that they made the charm options a bit easier to glance through. There's just no pleasing you guys.

Sloshthedark

08-31-2014, 08:49 AM

This is why I love The Source. How many of us actually enjoy playing MTG?

yes I don't in fact enjoy where MtG is heading... I'm don't care about my deck or "collection" in financial way I like playing it and not selling it anyway, this is about spare non jap fetches I planned on selling on Ovino and the rest to my LGS in a month period... dropping ~20-50% value overnight kind of affects my tournament and in minority also living plans +I don't want to sit on them next 2 years as I want to unload as many cards as possible at reasonable price, unfortunate =/ ... reprints are ugly as hell at least so old keep higher value but get really hard to sell - see Thoughtseize

swoop

08-31-2014, 08:54 AM

Enjoy market speculation games bud. You didn't lose money, you lost speculative value

Dice_Box

08-31-2014, 09:13 AM

This is why I love The Source. How many of us actually enjoy playing MTG?

I do. I just lost about 1500 in value on cards I had zero intent to sell anyway. I saw this news and cheared.

lordofthepit

08-31-2014, 09:30 AM

I was hoping these reprints would come at some point, but I wish I didn't pick up another set of Strands and Deltas right before these got announced. :frown:

Tormod

08-31-2014, 09:41 AM

I have my onslaught fetches and this reprint pleases me greatly.

Ace/Homebrew

08-31-2014, 10:18 AM

With a total of 25 (non-basic land cards) spoiled, I think it is safe to say this will be the worst set ever! I mean, it's just full of boring reprints that everyone has been wanting... C'mon Wizards!!1!!!1!

Humphrey

08-31-2014, 10:27 AM

well, theyll going to reprint all the staples exept reserved listed ones, because of the fakes/holosymbol. maybe theyll even going to obsolet a lot of reserved cards like s-c duals

TsumiBand

08-31-2014, 10:34 AM

Fuck yes, friendly fetches.

Fuck yes, bulleted lists. (Seriously. Makes total sense. Where's my bulleted Cryptic Command now) like really, it's so much more readable on-sight, how could one fret over that? It is strictly better formatting than semicolon delimitation in a block of text. Seriously, I want my bullet point Cryptic Commands now pls. I have a textless one that came in the mail one day and every time I see it I'm like "oh go to hell, you."

Kind of fuck yes, tap symbol in reminder text? I always wished that costs would reflect the way we talk about cards instead of having their own format. Like when you quick-describe Lightning Bolt to someone you say something like "Lightning Bolt, it's an Instant, costs a Red, deal 3 damage to something" or whatever right? Almost always you sum it up as if you were reading the card top-to-bottom, more or less - the timing and cost comes before the effect. I wish they'd do smething like -

Outlast [@Sorcery] - 2W, Tap: put a counter on -this-.

But that's just me being a weirdo, wondering why ability text reinvents the wheel of describing an effect that goes on the stack. They should feel like reading cards, and cards do not put their time-restricting types at the bottom, so why should abilities be different? Meh.

Speaking of Outlast, hmmmm :/ I expected something more I guess, from the wedge of endurance. I had unfounded high hopes for that particular wedge. The Wrath looks kinda fun though, even though that fucker costs :4::w::b::g:. I like WoGs where I get to be like, "oh weird, I still have a creature. Don't you have any creatures? No?!? Hey wha happun??"

I remain fairly little-kid excited for the set. Fetches are prety clutch though. Bitching about borders is a non-starter, it's a legal Magic card. Suck it up buttercups :D

Antonius

08-31-2014, 10:35 AM

New Sarkhan is actually pretty sicc. Honestly, it could rival Koth for best red planeswalker. Makes up for Sarkhan the bads of previous years.

Ace/Homebrew

08-31-2014, 10:41 AM

Not a huge fan of the flavor text on the new fetches...

"Where dragons once blah, their bones now meh"
I guess that makes them relevant to the block, but it feels very forced.

nedleeds

08-31-2014, 10:46 AM

Yet another reason to play German Onslaught ones.

TsumiBand

08-31-2014, 10:48 AM

New Sarkhan is actually pretty sicc. Honestly, it could rival Koth for best red planeswalker. Makes up for Sarkhan the bads of previous years.
Yeah that too, he looks pretty legit. His emblem is wonky, Ensnaring Bridge much? But very Red though, can't get mad.

Antonius

08-31-2014, 10:59 AM

the EV on cracking khans packs is starting to look pretty good. Might have to make an exception to the code and open boosters, something i haven't done since zendikar

Wordslinger

08-31-2014, 11:36 AM

Fetches were the barrier preventing me from getting into legacy. There were budget replacements for everything else. Thanks wizards!

Aggro_zombies

08-31-2014, 11:41 AM

Speaking of Outlast, hmmmm :/ I expected something more I guess, from the wedge of endurance. I had unfounded high hopes for that particular wedge.
Well, at least it's not a lifegain mechanic.

My excitement for this set has mostly evaporated for the same reason my excitement for Theros mostly evaporated very early in preview season: all the mechanics are dull. I am about as ambivalent on Outlast as I could possibly be for a mechanic, I don't like Delve, Raid is whatever and will probably be on 90% Limited filler cards anyway, Prowess is lame for how similar it is to the casual happy fun times of Kiln Fiend, and who cares what Temur does since it'll probably be some sort of "four power matters/large creatures matter" thing. The fetches are cool and I like the charm, even if bullet points make me want to gouge my eyes out with a baseball bat. The new commander is better at Voltron than Ruhan, but I was hoping for a good control commander to replace Zedruu and she ain't it.

Hopefully this set has some interesting cards.

EDIT: Oh, the RUG mechanic is Ferocious (http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/feature/mechanics-khans-tarkir#anchor5), which triggers on attacking creatures if you have a guy with four or more power. *yawn*

(nameless one)

08-31-2014, 11:42 AM

I have my onslaught fetches and this reprint pleases me greatly.

It's a step forward towards abolishing the reserve list. I mean if you're willing to reprint $100 worth cards, what else do you think they will reprint? It all depends on how this will be received.

Megadeus

08-31-2014, 11:51 AM

The RL ain't coming down. Reprinting a set of lands that needed to be put into modern anyway =/= abolishing the RL.

GoblinZ

08-31-2014, 11:55 AM

Not a huge fan of the flavor text on the new fetches...

"Where dragons once blah, their bones now meh"
I guess that makes them relevant to the block, but it feels very forced.

I just noticed the flavor text...

I think although the new art is not that bad imo, playing these fetches with new flavor text in legacy seems awkward to me...

btm10

08-31-2014, 12:01 PM

Yeah, I think reprinting Force of Will or Wasteland would be a clearer indication that they're entertaining relaxing the reprint policies. None of these cards (Onslaught Fetches, Force, Wasteland) are on the list, but Force and Waste aren't half of an otherwise Modern-legal cycle, they're clearly Legacy/Vintage staples, and they both high value cards that Wizards considers "too good" for non-Legacy, non-Vintage play. Until I see otherwise, I think these reprints are helpful for Legacy and Vintage, but aimed at Modern.

TsumiBand

08-31-2014, 12:44 PM

I was *almost* right about dat one-off Exalted Angel reprint

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/attachments/thumbnails/131/308/82/115/635450759808840177.png

Okay I'm lying, I wasn't even close because I assumed foolishly that it'd be mono-white and it is not but at least it is common

Oh who am I kidding

Balls

EDIT: What is this, a leeched image for ants

Azban Guide :3::w::b::g:

Creature - Human Warrior

Lifelink

Morph :2::w::b::g:
4/4

lyracian

08-31-2014, 01:48 PM

Sorcery speed for Outlast probably kills it for Legacy; design wise though I like moving away from everything being instant. It means players have to do stuff on there own turn rather than during opponents end step.
Between Delver and Young Pyromancer Prowess is going to have to be on some super aggressive creature to make the cut.
Tombstalker shows that Delver is a playable mechanic so this is clan I think is most likely to produce a card or two for Legacy.
We know the trigger condition and a 4/5 Tarmogofy can activate Raid and Ferocious. None of the example so far look great but since each card is a different effect you can not really write them off until all the cards are know.

As for the Fetch Lands I am sorry for people who have lost out buying them recently but they are much needed cards to get players into Legacy and Modern. I will certainly be getting rid of the played condition cards I already have and picking up cheaper holo-fetch cards to replace them. Fortuanlty my blue ones are all NM so I will keep them. :smile:

Meekrab

08-31-2014, 02:42 PM

EDIT: What is this, a leeched image for ants
You linked the thumbnail version :p

But yeah anyway that card sucks, though its probably decent for draft at common.

MGB

08-31-2014, 02:59 PM

Am I the only one that thinks the bulleted-list modal spells look like someone's resume in MS Word? Kind of kills the fantasy feel for me.

(nameless one)

08-31-2014, 03:08 PM

Am I the only one that thinks the bulleted-list modal spells look like someone's resume in MS Word? Kind of kills the fantasy feel for me.

It actually reminds me of Yugioh card texts. Though I like the template because not everyone I play with is a competent reader. Lorwyn Commands are really good at confusing incompetent readers.

joven

08-31-2014, 04:37 PM

I don't like Morph.

Ferocious and Raid seem pretty lame so far, it will probably depend if there will be cards with strong effects and reasonable cost.
Nice to see where Future Sight got Delve from. But Delve is problematic as said earlier, and it stinks that every Delve card is overcosted.
Outlast seems sweet on first sight but Sorcery speed limits it immensely.
I'm not sure about Prowess so far.

Barook

08-31-2014, 05:20 PM

joven

08-31-2014, 05:59 PM

People really think it's the sorcery speed that kills Outlast? The tap thing is way worse since it limits it to one activation per untap AND you can only use it the turn after you played it.

Well, I took the tap requirement as inherent to Outlast, without tapping it would be something very different (like LevelUp or some kind of permanent pumping). It's actually the combination of tapping and Sorcery speed that kills it. Not only you have to tap your creature, you even can't leave the mana open AND you have to tap your creature _during your turn_. It's extremely limiting!

Meekrab

08-31-2014, 06:14 PM

Well, I took the tap requirement as inherent to Outlast, without tapping it would be something very different (like LevelUp or some kind of permanent pumping). It's actually the combination of tapping and Sorcery speed that kills it. Not only you have to tap your creature, you even can't leave the mana open AND you have to tap your creature _during your turn_. It's extremely limiting!
It's almost like it's a limited mechanic. ;)

Mr. Safety

08-31-2014, 07:29 PM

Anybody else notice that the delve mechanic is back? I sure do love me some Tombstalker.

Onslaught fetch reprint: THANK YOU WOTC! I think this is a clear indication that they are looking past Standard, and even Modern, to support Legacy and Vintage. Vintage masters online and now ally fetchlands? I may be reading too far into this but it seems like they might actually start to care about true eternal formats. Maybe.

TsumiBand

08-31-2014, 07:36 PM

It actually reminds me of Yugioh card texts. Though I like the template because not everyone I play with is a competent reader. Lorwyn Commands are really good at confusing incompetent readers.

See the Commands are pretty much the best pointer to why it is klutzy to cram all the abilities into the same block of text. Competency is a non-issue, those semicolons are ugly and aren't nearly as effective as just separating them between lines.

iamajellydonut

08-31-2014, 07:49 PM

I think this is a clear indication that they are looking past Standard, and even Modern, to support Legacy and Vintage.

I can't tell if you're being serious or not. These are for Modern and to sell product.

Megadeus

08-31-2014, 07:56 PM

Yeah, anything with outlast is going to need a strong ability whenever you activate it if anything wants to be constructed playable.

Megadeus

08-31-2014, 07:58 PM

As for the bullet points, I like it because it makes it simple and quick for someone to read it and figure it out, but it does look kinda weird. I think it's good that they did it though.

Dice_Box

08-31-2014, 08:05 PM

Got to agree. That new layout for the charms, it's good. I like it.

big_ticket

08-31-2014, 10:10 PM

I was hoping these reprints would come at some point, but I wish I didn't pick up another set of Strands and Deltas right before these got announced. :frown:

im also thinking twice gettin some onslaught but my friend warned me,they had some scg articles paid so he was ahead of the rumors and warned my friends to just wait within the next 2 sets.lucky for me

maharis

08-31-2014, 10:21 PM

Outlast is sad, but I think Prowess will be good in Legacy or at least Modern depending on the creatures it's on. It's very much like exalted.

The new Sorin has some really interesting synergy with Bitterblossom, even more so than the first one. Not sure if that affects Legacy though.

Megadeus

08-31-2014, 10:26 PM

Asfar as legacy playability goes, old Sorin is much better.

maharis

08-31-2014, 10:34 PM

I agree, I just love bitterblossom and want it to work

Meekrab

08-31-2014, 10:39 PM

As for the bullet points, I like it because it makes it simple and quick for someone to read it and figure it out, but it does look kinda weird. I think it's good that they did it though.
I think it would've gone over better if they used dashes instead of circles. ¯\(°_o)/¯

Rizso

09-01-2014, 12:28 AM

New Sarkhan is actually pretty sicc. Honestly, it could rival Koth for best red planeswalker. Makes up for Sarkhan the bads of previous years.

He reminds me alot of Flametongue Kavu.

Curving Brimaz into new sorin feels really hard to beat for any aggressive strategi.

Darkenslight

09-01-2014, 02:50 AM

He reminds me alot of Flametongue Kavu.

Curving Brimaz into new sorin feels really hard to beat for any aggressive strategi.

Yup. I loves me some BW Midrange.

Barook

09-01-2014, 04:11 AM

Asfar as legacy playability goes, old Sorin is much better.
Probably, but if I have learned anything from Soul of Theros, then it's that pump + mass life link is pretty damn good. Legacy is a different beast, but I could see him working in a token deck, kinda like Tezzeret does in Affinity. Legacy playable? Maybe, maybe not, but he could have place in Modern.

ubernostrum

09-01-2014, 05:05 AM

Curving Brimaz into new sorin feels really hard to beat for any aggressive strategi.

The problem with this is it doesn't really pass the Terminus test. And with Miracles being played more and more, that's very relevant; Sorin will add a point of damage to your turn-four attack in that case, and some life gain, but that's not really relevant when you're going to be facing Terminus at some point in any sizeable event. Outside of dedicated token decks, Sorin doesn't provide enough extra damage to let you avoid overextending, and doesn't leave you with the threat of a scary ultimate when he's on the board by himself.

So overall, any deck that could play Sorin probably should still be playing Liliana, or Lord of Innistrad, instead.

Dice_Box

09-01-2014, 05:11 AM

Guys, has anyone noticed that Ugin's Nexus kind of hoses Vault/Key? We right now have a card that may see Vintage sideboard play.

Barook

09-01-2014, 06:20 AM

Guys, has anyone noticed that Ugin's Nexus kind of hoses Vault/Key? We right now have a card that may see Vintage sideboard play.
A hoser shouldn't cost 5 fucking mana. It's notable that extra copies become colorless Time Warps for whatever format that could be useful, but as a hoser, it fails. HARD.

Dice_Box

09-01-2014, 06:25 AM

A hoser shouldn't cost 5 fucking mana. It's notable that extra copies become colorless Time Warps for whatever format that could be useful, but as a hoser, it fails. HARD.

Five mana is not a hard ask in Vintage. If Time/Vault is in your Meta, this card should be on your radar. I will grant you, 5 mana is a pain, but your paying in that regard for the Extra turn and that's the effect that makes the card useful in Limited and Standard.

mrjumbo03

09-01-2014, 06:35 AM

^Aside from being able to plop this down via Mishra's Workshop negating the 5 cost, it could also be tutorable via Kuldotha Forgemaster as well. Could be a bullet in the side.

EDIT: Misread the card! :smile:

Barook

09-01-2014, 06:42 AM

Also, it turns your Phyrexian Metamorphs into Time Walks with this in play!
That's a pretty viable argument, though.

but your paying in that regard for the Extra turn and that's the effect that makes the card useful in Limited and Standard.
Unless there are some viable artifact sac effects, I doubt that you'll get two of those mythics to make any use out of it.

Dosferra

09-01-2014, 06:44 AM

^Aside from plopping this down via Mishra's Workshop, it could be tutorable via Kuldotha Forgemaster as well. Could be a bullet in the side, or even 2 if you're feeling adventurous and want to have a Mono-Brown Time Walk. Also, it turns your Phyrexian Metamorphs into Time Walks with this in play!

It doesn't work like that though? The new one will prevent you from taking a extra turn.

On the other hand, it's possible to sacrifice it to Smokestack and gain the extra turn.

Megadeus

09-01-2014, 06:51 AM

In shops, 5 mana is turn 2, 3 at worst right? I'm not sure how much they want this effect as I'm not a vintage player, but it's an interesting option. Damn the self exile effect though. I needed trading post to become insane

Megadeus

09-01-2014, 06:52 AM

It doesn't work like that though? The new one will prevent you from taking a extra turn.

On the other hand, it's possible to sacrifice it to Smokestack and gain the extra turn.

Sacrifice it to smoke stack do you can take an extra turn and sacrifice more permanents. Oh the synergy!

Barook

09-01-2014, 06:57 AM

It doesn't work like that though? The new one will prevent you from taking a extra turn.
You're right. It's symmetrical. Brainfart on my part.

iamajellydonut

09-01-2014, 07:04 AM

If Time/Vault

The question of "why not just run Pithing Needle" still stands.

Dice_Box

09-01-2014, 07:25 AM

The question of "why not just run Pithing Needle" still stands.

I will give you that one. For whatever reason, I forgot about that.

Quasim0ff

09-01-2014, 08:11 AM

A hoser shouldn't cost 5 fucking mana. It's notable that extra copies become colorless Time Warps for whatever format that could be useful, but as a hoser, it fails. HARD.

uhm, I'm pretty sure that 5 mana isn't too much to play in vintage shops. It's 5 colorless mana, so it's castable off a shops + ancient tomb or shops + mox + waste.

Higgs

09-01-2014, 08:32 AM

I don't think it would be a good silver bullet in vintage because the only deck which heavily relies on Key+Vault is probably Tezz and it not only plays shitloads of counters (Drains, FoW, Steel Sabotage) but it can transform into an Oath deck post board, changing its game plan. I just can't see this being anything more than a cute piece of hate.

Edit: Granted, there could be Forgemaster tricks in response to your activation but I still think it's too narrow to devote any slots to.

rufus

09-01-2014, 10:47 AM

If they ever do Flash-style errata on Transmute Artifact, Ugin's Nexus would be a fun card for that. Otherwise, I don't think it even makes sense as a Goblin Welder card.

Koby

09-01-2014, 01:15 PM

One step closer to fully Korean Tin Fins, or other pet decks that I play once a year at big events. Plus for that.
One step closer to getting more people into Legacy because a format staple is being reprinted. Plus for that.
One more reason for me to actually play Limited for a season, due to the golden ticket lottery. Plus for that.

Even if the rest of the set is Commander clickbait and functional reprints of M15, I will still play this set and go to events. Looks like WotC succeeded with this set, and we only know of about 30 cards.

Koreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaan

iamajellydonut

09-01-2014, 01:18 PM

Looks like WotC succeeded with this set, and we only know of about 30 cards.

And it only took 5. Who would've thought they could print themselves money?

Koby

09-01-2014, 01:30 PM

And it only took 5. Who would've thought they could print themselves money?

Sure, no doubt about how awful the past nearly two years of sets has been. It's hard to release RTR quality in every set. I would likely put the strength of this fall set on par with Theros (re-print driving sales) at this point, as all the hype is from fetchlands. We'll see if MaRo can actually figure out a way to make sets eternally impacting other than token reprints.

BBG|Scott-Spain

09-01-2014, 01:30 PM

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/61/930/635451629690217576.png

Dredge? Don't really need it.

iamajellydonut

09-01-2014, 01:34 PM

No, but my future shitty BUG brew does. Holy god is that thing sexy. I'd do it.

Edit: Did we really just get Naga as a creature type? -_-

Richard Cheese

09-01-2014, 01:36 PM

the EV on cracking khans packs is starting to look pretty good. Might have to make an exception to the code and open boosters, something i haven't done since zendikar

Khans: the set so good it brought Antonius back.

ironclad8690

09-01-2014, 02:23 PM

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/61/930/635451629690217576.png

Dredge? Don't really need it.

Narcomoeba and a 2/2 zombie? Yes please!

iamajellydonut

09-01-2014, 02:25 PM

I just noticed it only gives one Zombie token even if all three cards are creatures. And I don't care. Still da bes.

TsumiBand

09-01-2014, 02:36 PM

Uh yeah that dude is sweet. I don't think Dredge gives a shit, but does it have to? Delve and Dredge.dec aren't exactly besties, right -- Dredge the Deck would prefer a full yard while Delve the Mechanic is not terribly picky about what it leaves behind.

I don't see much future in EDH for the guy just because everything it does is too slow and too small. It's not general material, anyway. I really like it though.

Meekrab

09-01-2014, 03:04 PM

Narcomoeba and a 2/2 zombie? Yes please!
Huh? This guy doesn't do anything when it goes from your library to your graveyard.

iamajellydonut

09-01-2014, 03:17 PM

Huh? This guy doesn't do anything when it goes from your library to your graveyard.

Yes, he does.

joven

09-01-2014, 03:33 PM

I just noticed it only gives one Zombie token even if all three cards are creatures. And I don't care. Still da bes.

Damn that stinks.

TsumiBand

09-01-2014, 04:15 PM

rufus

09-01-2014, 04:22 PM

I just noticed it only gives one Zombie token even if all three cards are creatures. And I don't care. Still da bes.

But the blocks are separate, so he triggers off of other stuff like Altar of Dementia,Mesmeric Orb or Extractor Demon milling stuff into the graveyard.

iamajellydonut

09-01-2014, 04:31 PM

But the blocks are separate, so he triggers off of other stuff like Altar of Dementia,Mesmeric Orb or Extractor Demon milling stuff into the graveyard.

Oooh my God. I remembered the big combo engines, but what about simple stuff like Forbidden Alchemy? Oooh, I love this card more and more.

joven

09-01-2014, 05:02 PM

But the blocks are separate, so he triggers off of other stuff like Altar of Dementia,Mesmeric Orb or Extractor Demon milling stuff into the graveyard.

Hm, Mesmeric Orb could be good with Sidisi, well, in casual Commander I guess. Especially since it puts one card at a time into graveyard, but for each untapping permanent.
Happy self milling!

Barook

09-01-2014, 05:39 PM

Sidisi has some merit with Volrath's Stronghold, although when would want a 2/2 Zombie over an utility creature?

It also sucks that it needs to attack instead of an auto-trigger during upkeep - that would have made it sex with Vengeful Pharaoh.

Sidisi also works with Loam, for what it's worth.

Ocean

09-01-2014, 05:45 PM

Nice to see fetches reprinted, but man the art is beyond horrible. Just bad taste (almost all of the current art in mtg actually).

Barook

09-01-2014, 06:04 PM

Little kid technology, I choose yoooou
---
Howl of the Horde
:2::r:
Sorcery
When you cast your next instant or sorcery spell this turn, copy that spell. You may choose new targets for the copy.

Raid — If you attacked with a creature this turn, when you cast your next instant or sorcery spell this turn, copy that spell an additional time. You may choose new targets for the copy.

---

"So you're at like 11? Attack with my Goblin Guide into your much larger creature, guess it dies -- cast Howl of the Horde, triple Fireblast you? Seems good!"
It could actually work in some kind of Young Pyromancer shell. Both (flashbacked) Cabal Therapy and Gitaxian Probe have alot of synergy with Howl and the tokens produced by Pyromancer are good suicide swingers.

Anything else seems to be too expensive/specific to be any good in Legacy, as tempting as tripple Bolt for :2::r::r: (or tripple Fireblast, as already mentioned) might be.

And good luck to whoever manages to chain those things in Raid mode. :laugh:

iamajellydonut

09-01-2014, 06:04 PM

It also sucks that it needs to attack instead of an auto-trigger during upkeep - that would have made it sex with Vengeful Pharaoh.

Meh, so long as it has a CiP trigger I'm happy.

rufus

09-01-2014, 06:51 PM

It could actually work in some kind of Young Pyromancer shell. Both (flashbacked) Cabal Therapy and Gitaxian Probe have alot of synergy with Howl and the tokens produced by Pyromancer are good suicide swingers.

Anything else seems to be too expensive/specific to be any good in Legacy, as tempting as tripple Bolt for :2::r::r: (or tripple Fireblast, as already mentioned) might be.

And good luck to whoever manages to chain those things in Raid mode. :laugh:

In raid mode it's a pretty strong card, except that you want to load something big on the back end, so mana cost is an issue. That suggests alternative cc spells like Fireblast, Fury of the Horde, Mind Swords, Unmask and Cabal Therapy.

If you can hit metalcraft and raid Molten Psyche has some heavy damage potential since it can do 6x cards in hand damage.

joven

09-01-2014, 07:11 PM

Howl of the Horde + Goblin Grenade = 15 damage for 2RR (well, you need two Goblins for that)
Shrapnel Blast and Tribal Flames are also interesting but cost one mana more (among other things).
(Don't forget you need to have attacked with a creature before.)

TsumiBand

09-01-2014, 08:05 PM

Yeah there are several spells that can dome for 4+ with varying degrees of playability. Flame Rift, Galvanic Blast, Shrapnel Blast, Fireblast, Soul Spike (eeeehhhhhh), that Black voting spell from Conspiracy that should always result in the opponent losing 4 life, etc...

Not necessarily amazing deck here, but it's conceivable to deal 9-15 damage fairly easily with Rakdos Dumbstuff. Plus you got that triple Therapy thing to ruin the hand with, should the need arise. Meh I dunno.

Aggro_zombies

09-01-2014, 08:27 PM

Howl seems best with creature token-making spells. In particular, it seems very good with Lingering Souls since the first casting can trigger raid for the flashback.

On the other hand, you could just kill them with Lingering Souls tokens and not bother with getting cute.

Now that I think about it, actually, RBW Aggro stands the most to gain from Khans. You have Souls to spam creatures, Thoughtseize, Inquisition, Sculler, and Hymn for disruption, and Bolt, Chain Lightning, and Grim Lavamancer to pick off creatures or burn the opponent out. A couple of cheap Raid guys or token-producers could be just what the deck needs.

FTW

09-01-2014, 09:54 PM

Hmm looks like fetchlands will finally be less than $90 thank @%$%$)()($

What I really like about this Raid copy card is

1) Unlike Fork you don't have to cast the instant or sorcery first.

2) More splashable mana cost

3) Can still be used without Raid without suffering card disadvantage, so you don't HAVE to suicide bomb with a creature.

#1 especially means no awkward 2-for-1s AND opponent has much less information when they have to decide whether or not to counter your Copy spell. Most likely they have to counter it, since otherwise you get 3 copies of some other opportunistic spell, but they don't know if you're just bluffing or how dangerous the card will be. Are you just triple Probing them or are you triple Fireblasting?? And you don't have to sacrifice lands to Fireblast until you know you're getting 3 of them, which is pretty nice.

If this card proves any good, there might be a rise in play of Flusterstorm. Which means more Nivmagus brews, which means more good times for me!

In EDH Aurelia, this card is pronounced "law'll". Especially when you cast Relentless Assault after.

Barook

09-01-2014, 10:09 PM

Meekrab

09-01-2014, 10:40 PM

Yes, he does.
What, exactly? His 2/2 zombie ability only works when he's in play.

iamajellydonut

09-01-2014, 10:46 PM

What, exactly? His 2/2 zombie ability only works when he's in play.

I think you misinterpreted something and then I misinterpreted your misled comment.

Meekrab

09-01-2014, 10:56 PM

Yeah, I thought Ironclad was saying that the serpent guy puts himself into play when it's milled a la Narcomoeba.

force_of_phil

09-02-2014, 12:23 AM

I can already see myself flipping out when someone calls junk "abzan". Abzan Stoneblade... gonna go break something.

Darkenslight

09-02-2014, 03:50 AM

I can already see myself flipping out when someone calls junk "abzan". Abzan Stoneblade... gonna go break something.

...Is it really wrong when I want to call it 'Banza Stoneblade'?

Bobmans

09-02-2014, 05:33 AM

...Is it really wrong when I want to call it 'Banza Stoneblade'?

Banza Stoneblade is quite funny actually.

Or just call it Azban Stoneblade. Sounds more like something pilotted by Sacha Baron Cohen.

edit: Banza POD! Nic Fit going Extravaganza!!

Lemnear

09-02-2014, 05:39 AM

http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=2832&type=card

Barook

09-02-2014, 05:46 AM

Anafenza the Foremost :w::b::g:
Legendary Creature - Human Soldier

Whenever Anafenza the Foremost attacks, put a +1/+1 counter on another target tapped creature you control.

If a creature card would be put into an opponent's graveyard from anywhere, exile it instead.
4/4

Thoughts? Her second ability would hose Dredge pretty well (if she wasn't so slow with her 3 mana cost in that regard), but her first ability is pretty meh and a vanilla 4/4 doesn't really seem to cut it for Legacy, either.

Echelon

09-02-2014, 07:16 AM

She's too slow to consistently stop Dredge :). Grafdigger's Cage/Tormod's Crypt etc. FTW.

bruizar

09-02-2014, 07:44 AM

Goaswerfraiejen

09-02-2014, 08:14 AM

Delve!

TsumiBand

09-02-2014, 09:28 AM

Ugin's Nexus +
Howl of the Horde +
Shrapnel Blast =

15 damage, one extra turn

Nice Emrakul, fucko!

pnutbutr

09-02-2014, 09:50 AM

Nice to see fetches reprinted, but man the art is beyond horrible. Just bad taste (almost all of the current art in mtg actually).

I'm just getting into Legacy and I bought a playset of Flooded Strands on Sunday morning, only to get home and see the spoler. Initially I was furious with myself, but after seeing how dreadful the art on the new one is, I felt a lot better about continued demand for the onslaught versions.

Arsenal

09-02-2014, 09:58 AM

Thoughts? Her second ability would hose Dredge pretty well (if she wasn't so slow with her 3 mana cost in that regard), but her first ability is pretty meh and a vanilla 4/4 doesn't really seem to cut it for Legacy, either.

May not make the Legacy cut, but she'll be a house in Modern. Melira Pod, Living End, and even Gifts will have a tough, tough time beating this thing. And that fact that she is a mini-Gavony Township will break Pod mirrors wide open; probably even moreso than Linvala currently does.

Darkenslight

09-02-2014, 11:02 AM

See the Unwritten :4: :g: :g:
Sorcery
Reveal the top eight cards of your library. You may put a creature card among them onto the battlefield. Put the rest into your graveyard.
Ferocious - If you control a creature with power 4 or greater, you may put two creature cards onto the battlefield instead of one.

Could be something weird in Modern, like Tooth and Nail used to be in Extended.

iamajellydonut

09-02-2014, 11:15 AM

Could be something weird in Modern, like Tooth and Nail used to be in Extended.

Not really. I mean, if you have a creature with power four or greater on the board, you're probably already in a great spot and could better use your six mana elsewhere. And if you don't, then it's a slower version of Summoning Trap which has been around for like five years.

cab0747

09-02-2014, 11:27 AM

[QUOTE=pnutbutr;831694]I'm just getting into Legacy and I bought a playset of Flooded Strands on Sunday morning, only to get home and see the spoler. Initially I was furious with myself, but after seeing how dreadful the art on the new one is, I felt a lot better about continued demand for the onslaught versions.[/QU

I know! I am very excited for the reprints, but I dislike the art on all of them except for Wooded Foothills. On MTGO, I do not care. I will buy the new-age strands and everyone can make fun of me for having the garbage ones. In paper... I really want to just buy the Onsl. version.

Only downside of getting the strands before the spoiler is that they dropped about $20 once it was announced. I would guess they go down another $5 before the settle.

Oh well, I am sure you aren't the first (or last) to have this happen to them.

TsumiBand

09-02-2014, 11:58 AM

Finn

09-02-2014, 12:06 PM

Utter End :2::w::b:

Instant

Exile target nonland permanent.

----

It's probably somewhat stronger than Unexpectedly Absent (if that's getting played?) but I wonder how much good it'll do in this format. Still, I like it for being Instant and relatively unlimited in scope - if I wanted to hit a land I'd play Wasteland anyway, meh meh meh

I dunno. Council's Judgement is pretty hot due to all the side benefits of targeting without targeting. Sorcery, yeah. But what are we talking about here? A new deck archetype or sprucing up Rock-Junk-Ale? Those decks tend to tap out on their own turn. I don't want to go spending four on a single permanent unless that permanent is Emrakul or Counterbalance or something that owns the game.

Barook

09-02-2014, 12:16 PM

TsumiBand

09-02-2014, 12:25 PM

I forgot about Council's Judgment. ^__________^;;;;

Darkenslight

09-02-2014, 12:26 PM

Why does it have to be nonland at 4 mana? I also dislike how they recycled Vindicate - the trend of reprinting old, popular cards at a higher mana costs with minimal extra benefits continues.

As far as Legacy in concerned, CJ shits all over it. Instant speed is nice, but can't outweight all the extra benefits CJ has.

Funnily enough,t here's onyl two cards CJ hits that Utter End doesn't. Unfortunately, those two cards are TNN and Emrakul. This is arguably much better in Modern and Standard as hard spot removal.

Ace/Homebrew

09-02-2014, 12:44 PM

Ugin's Nexus +
Howl of the Horde +
Shrapnel Blast =

15 damage, one extra turn

Nice Emrakul, fucko!

I only follow plot details to the extent that it helps speculate what characters may get cards...
So Ugin is like the counter to the Eldrazi, I guess.

Is Ugin's Nexus Wizard's attempt to 'answer' Emrakul? It is terribly narrow and unplayable in Legacy. But it stops extra turns (Emrakul's cast trigger) and it gives you an extra turn when it hits the yard (is annihilated).

Poron

09-02-2014, 12:47 PM

Funnily enough,t here's onyl two cards CJ hits that Utter End doesn't. Unfortunately, those two cards are TNN and Emrakul. This is arguably much better in Modern and Standard as hard spot removal.

Progenitus.. anything with Shroud or Hexproof anything with Protection from white or black..

Council Judgement is just another TNN. The difference between TNN and CJ is that TNN sticks on the battleground

Dice_Box

09-02-2014, 12:54 PM

Funnily enough,t here's onyl two cards CJ hits that Utter End doesn't. Unfortunately, those two cards are TNN and Emrakul. This is arguably much better in Modern and Standard as hard spot removal.

Nimble Mongoose, Enchantresses whole deck once they make shit untargetable... There is more than just two cards.

joven

09-02-2014, 01:02 PM

Is Ugin's Nexus Wizard's attempt to 'answer' Emrakul? It is terribly narrow and unplayable in Legacy. But it stops extra turns (Emrakul's cast trigger) and it gives you an extra turn when it hits the yard (is annihilated).

I guess we will see Ugin in the third set of the block together with a bunch of other Eldrazi-sized dragons.
This nexus thing looks more like the lifeless skeleton of Ugin.

Council Judgement is just another TNN. The difference between TNN and CJ is that TNN sticks on the battleground

Wtf? Council's Judgement can't kill your opponent and doesn't have protection against all your opponent can ever do.
The only similarity is that both cards are an abomination in game mechanic that fuck up all what Magic is or was.

maharis

09-02-2014, 01:09 PM

I dunno. Council's Judgement is pretty hot due to all the side benefits of targeting without targeting. Sorcery, yeah. But what are we talking about here? A new deck archetype or sprucing up Rock-Junk-Ale? Those decks tend to tap out on their own turn. I don't want to go spending four on a single permanent unless that permanent is Emrakul or Counterbalance or something that owns the game.

I have been toying with an idea of using Pack Rat and Restoration Angel in BW to make all my guys on their turn, this card would be hilarious if people already think you're monkeying around with Resto Angel and then you just murder their thing when they don't attack, untap and pass again with 4 up.

Of course, you have to get to 4 mana/doesn't hit TNN. Instant speed is very good in general, though.

TsumiBand

09-02-2014, 01:15 PM

I only follow plot details to the extent that it helps speculate what characters may get cards...
So Ugin is like the counter to the Eldrazi, I guess.

Is Ugin's Nexus Wizard's attempt to 'answer' Emrakul? It is terribly narrow and unplayable in Legacy. But it stops extra turns (Emrakul's cast trigger) and it gives you an extra turn when it hits the yard (is annihilated).

I have no idea, I just thought it was funny that someone could attack with a Pest token and cast a Raided Howl of the Horde with Shrapnel Blast sacrificing Ugin's Nexus to recreate part of Emmy's effect.

What I did just think of - though it may just be superfluous ultimately - was that Howl of the Horde might be randomly funny in some kind of twisted combo deck with Xantid Swarm to trigger Raid. I doubt that the assemblage of Swarm + Howl + business spell is worth the cost, but it did trick me into remembering that Xantid Swarm is a card.

Zombie

09-02-2014, 02:20 PM

Barook

09-02-2014, 03:26 PM

Guys, guys, guys. I'm gonna build a FEROCIOUS DECK! So cool! The mechanic would've fit Naya really well, don't you think? They had a bunch of big monsters, to trigger this thing, would've been so perfect for them.

http://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-suicide.gif

... Would it have killed them to at least name it decently? Ferocious only in the prescence of other big stuff? Did they even use two brain cells while naming that thing. Ferocity would be better already. But considering it's other stuff getting better in big things' presence, maybe, dunno... Awe?
Awe is too close to the blue AWESOME mechanic - we can't have that.

And what the fuck was their thought process with the RUG mechanic?

"Naya's mechanic was so bad, our mouth-breathing costumers didn't even get that the 5-power thing was a theme!"
"Ok, let's do the same shit again, but this time with 4-power and a keyword!"
"Brilliant!"
"Now back to Maro ass-kissing!"

It's basically Naya 2.0 with :w: swapped for :u:.

Koby

09-02-2014, 03:36 PM

Guys, guys, guys. I'm gonna build a FEROCIOUS DECK! So cool! The mechanic would've fit Naya really well, don't you think? They had a bunch of big monsters, to trigger this thing, would've been so perfect for them.

http://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-suicide.gif

... Would it have killed them to at least name it decently? Ferocious only in the prescence of other big stuff? Did they even use two brain cells while naming that thing. Ferocity would be better already. But considering it's other stuff getting better in big things' presence, maybe, dunno... Awe?

You know, after this boondoggle I don't think they want to be reminded of "oh shit we just commissioned rape art"
http://magiccards.info/scans/en/avr/198.jpg

Gheizen64

09-02-2014, 03:37 PM

Awe would've been perfect. But honestly i can see them actually keywording Awesome sooner or later.

iamajellydonut

09-02-2014, 03:41 PM

You know, after this boondoggle I don't think they want to be reminded of "oh shit we just commissioned rape art"

Did Wizards ever acknowledge that or was it just hyped up in ignorance of the flavor text, what the art actually depicted, and the other half?

http://magiccards.info/scans/en/avr/122.jpg

joven

09-02-2014, 03:52 PM

You know, after this boondoggle I don't think they want to be reminded of "oh shit we just commissioned rape art"
http://magiccards.info/scans/en/avr/198.jpg

Woah, now that you said it I'm seeing it, too! :D :D
Well, things happen. Let's just hope the kids don't imitate what they see on these pictures of this adult game. ;)

iamajellydonut

09-02-2014, 03:55 PM

Woah, now that you said it I'm seeing it, too! :D :D
Well, things happen. Let's just hope the kids don't imitate what they see on these pictures of this adult game. ;)

Are we still being serious?

Poron

09-02-2014, 04:02 PM

Wtf? Council's Judgement can't kill your opponent and doesn't have protection against all your opponent can ever do.
The only similarity is that both cards are an abomination in game mechanic that fuck up all what Magic is or was.

Terminus, Golgari Charm, Massacre, Meekstone, Null Rod (making it a good wall). It can be countered by anything that counters a Llanowar Elf.

It just one card. BUG (both shardless and not) and Miracle don't even play it often.

joven

09-02-2014, 04:31 PM

Terminus, Golgari Charm, Massacre, Meekstone, Null Rod (making it a good wall). It can be countered by anything that counters a Llanowar Elf.

It just one card. BUG (both shardless and not) and Miracle don't even play it often.

That changes nothing. Nemesis is a card to be hated and it hurts the game.

Lord Seth

09-02-2014, 05:37 PM

Are we still being serious?I know some people actually did raise a stink over the picture at the time.

It's a rather dumb thing to complain about, especially because of Triumph of Cruelty, but some people seem to deliberately be searching for things to get offended by.

Barook

09-02-2014, 06:09 PM

Did Wizards ever acknowledge that or was it just hyped up in ignorance of the flavor text, what the art actually depicted, and the other half?
I think they wrote an official apology after some idiots stirred up shit. Social Justice Warriors (SJW) are some of the worst and most stupid scum the internet brought forth recently. Let's just hope that fad goes over quickly.

Good thing is that Magic is rarely of interest for them. Otherwise, we would soon read some article about how Ferocious is a new rape mechanic by the Patriarchy to further suppress the women in Magic.

Back on topic:

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/61/963/635452505522743028.png

Might be a stretch, but Zombardment maybe? They splash green for DRS and AD anyway.

TsumiBand

09-02-2014, 06:24 PM

I know nothing of any offense over Triumph of Ferocity, but the phrase "rape mechanics" doesn't offer much in the way of a counter-argument. :/

I don't know that any of the Ascendency enchantments so far are really going to affect anything Legacy does. I thought for sure Fervent Charge or a variant thereof would have been the RWB one. Meh.

Richard Cheese

09-02-2014, 06:33 PM

TsumiBand

09-02-2014, 06:35 PM

Don't come all up in Mardu's house talkin' that Dega trash. We're all about speed now. Dragon speed.

I didn't realize Dragon Speed involved putting teeny tokens into play and sacrificing the enchantment to give +butt instead of +fist :/

thecrav

09-02-2014, 06:35 PM

Back on topic:

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/61/963/635452505522743028.png

Might be a stretch, but Zombardment maybe? They splash green for DRS and AD anyway.

I'd really like to find a way to play this in the opposition token deck.

Richard Cheese

09-02-2014, 06:37 PM

I didn't realize Dragon Speed involved putting teeny tokens into play and sacrificing the enchantment to give +butt instead of +fist :/

The tokens show up already attacking...that's like Haste but even faster!

+0/3 because why would you ever want to sacrifice such a sweet-ass enchantment in the first place? It should really do like 80 damage to you instead.

Aggro_zombies

09-02-2014, 08:20 PM

The tokens show up already attacking...that's like Haste but even faster!

+0/3 because why would you ever want to sacrifice such a sweet-ass enchantment in the first place? It should really do like 80 damage to you instead.
All the Ascendancy enchantments are templated as:

First Ability: Faction-related bonus for your creatures
Second Ability: Ability that helps compensate for the faction's weakness

Mardu Ascendancy fits this model since it rewards you for attacking (first ability) and helps you avoid being blown about by good blocks or cheap, damage-based sweepers (second ability). Abzan Ascendancy turns on its faction's +1/+1 counters matter cards (first ability) and lets you weather early aggression without losing all your outlast guys before they can get big (second ability). Temur Ascendancy lets your big guys and aggressive medium-sized guys get into the fray faster (first ability) and helps you find more big guys so that you don't get shut down by removal for your big 4+ power enablers (second ability).

Darkenslight

09-03-2014, 02:56 AM

I think they wrote an official apology after some idiots stirred up shit. Social Justice Warriors (SJW) are some of the worst and most stupid scum the internet brought forth recently. Let's just hope that fad goes over quickly.

Good thing is that Magic is rarely of interest for them. Otherwise, we would soon read some article about how Ferocious is a new rape mechanic by the Patriarchy to further suppress the women in Magic.

Back on topic:

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/61/963/635452505522743028.png

Might be a stretch, but Zombardment maybe? They splash green for DRS and AD anyway.

Hilarious with Spirit Bonds in Standard - it could also make for an interesting Zombardment variant where instead of using Goblin Bombardment, you use something like Viscera Seer which now reads ":w: :b: : Scry 1. Put 2 1/1 white Spirit creature tokens with flying onto the battlefield."

Offler

09-03-2014, 02:58 AM

Current opinion on Khans of Tarkir:
A lot of really bad cards, with few good... And yes, since we have weird color combinations we had to pack old fetchlands, not mentioning the money grab...

Anyway... I have found this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NO9lReN7HzI

Its mongolian folk metal. I will torture with it anyone who will mention this expansion (maybe whole block) to me in a manner that "it was good set". :D

Edit:
As I am primarily playing monocolored decks, I wont find here much for me, anyways, but even monocolor cards look weird to me.

Jo11ygrnreefer

09-03-2014, 03:56 AM

Well, here is the reason why its a good set. Reprint of Polluted Delta, finally able to buy a playset of Onslaught for a reasonable price, LOL.

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk 2

Sloshthedark

09-03-2014, 05:47 AM

Tenger Calavry - didn't know them, I like it

Well, here is the reason why its a good set. Reprint of Polluted Delta, finally able to buy a playset of Onslaught for a reasonable price, LOL.

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk 2

I won't count on that, depends on what is reasonable of course...

Dreg

09-03-2014, 07:06 AM

https://scontent-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/10606246_1486715734920668_5281222360249043627_n.jpg?oh=240b63a6b6ca7d715afd111f5af60c2d&oe=545AE38C

We can all agree that the theme of third set in the block will be "Creatures that cost colored but are not colored because Ugin"

TheArchitect

09-03-2014, 07:09 AM

We can all agree that the theme of third set in the block will be "Creatures that cost colored but are not colored because Ugin"

It's possible, but I think it is more likely just worded that way to interact with morphed cards. Its a really bad card too. Even with morph cards its just a slightly better bonespliter.

lyracian

09-03-2014, 07:41 AM

We can all agree that the theme of third set in the block will be "Creatures that cost colored but are not colored because Ugin"
You could have something there; the quote on ghost fire is "Only those gifted with the eye of Ugin, the spirit dragon, can see his fiery breath.".
Perhaps we will get a kill spell that can kill Emrakul? (not that I would expect it to be Legacy playable)

CorwinB

09-03-2014, 08:46 AM

You could have something there; the quote on ghost fire is "Only those gifted with the eye of Ugin, the spirit dragon, can see his fiery breath.".
Perhaps we will get a kill spell that can kill Emrakul? (not that I would expect it to be Legacy playable)

"Tentacles to Plowshares" would be a good name for such a spell... :tongue:

Dreg

09-03-2014, 08:51 AM

"Tentacles to Plowshares" would be a good name for such a spell... :tongue:

Following the trend, it will probably cost 1 more than it should to be usable

Lemnear

09-03-2014, 08:55 AM

1cc - Instant
Destroy all colorless creatures.

This would also solve Vintage's problem with MUD ;D

TsumiBand

09-03-2014, 09:09 AM

Clearly the chase rare of the new set is going to be this bruiser - ANKLE SHANKER

http://cdn.magicspoiler.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Ankle-Shanker-spoilers.jpg

cab0747

09-03-2014, 09:17 AM

I won't count on that, depends on what is reasonable of course...

SCG has them for pre-order at $25. I'd say that is reasonable for fetches at the moment. Other places will probably have the on pre-order for closer to $20.

Dice_Box

09-03-2014, 09:19 AM

Should have been called "Ankle Biter" so all us Aussie's could have a laugh.

cab0747

09-03-2014, 10:32 AM

I am going to be VERY disappointed if they don't print a "City Wall" card.

Sooooooo sad.

FTW

09-03-2014, 11:13 AM

I'm still waiting for them to print another Kobold.

Something like this

Kobold of Khan Keep - 0
Creature - Kobold
This card is red.
Morph 4
0/1

Power creep!

FTW

09-03-2014, 11:15 AM

Clearly the chase rare of the new set is going to be this bruiser - ANKLE SHANKER

http://cdn.magicspoiler.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Ankle-Shanker-spoilers.jpg

Hmm... Goblin Lackey likes?

First Strike + Deathtouch seems pretty amazing with Mogg War Marshal, Goblin Matron, Piledriver and friends.

TsumiBand

09-03-2014, 11:34 AM

Dreg

09-03-2014, 11:38 AM

But.. But...

You can swing with the Biter and blow stuff up with Siege Gang Commander like it's fucking Christmas.

Now i'll crawl back into my basement.

FTW

09-03-2014, 11:45 AM

I think Ankle Shanker fucking sucks y'all.

I don't know why any Goblin deck would want to gain advantage via first strike and deathtouch in the first place - if you're vying for board position, don't you actually just want removal? If it's the difference between swinging for the win or not, the only thing you're doing is forcing a bunch of blocks.

Plus there are two too many colors on that guy. I know Goblins has had limited success in splashing for colors lately and that Cavern of Souls is a real thing, but going three-color seems nuts to me. There aren't that many Goblin-relevant tricks in those colors, and we all know what happens to Goblins when the synergy between Matron, Lackey, and Ringleader is undermined by putting non-Goblin junk in the deck. So unless there is a huge influx of Goblins that do stuff in this block (which would be weird considering their big hubbub around bringings Orcs back) I would personally want to see more compelling reasons to add :b::w: to Gobs.

Many Goblins players already splash 2 colors (usually WG). Rw for Thalia is a very common splash. Rb for Cabal Therapy, Warren Weirding and Earwig Squad is also pretty common. Rwg is usually for a mix of Thalia and Krosan Grip. Rwb isn't completely inconceivable, though usually overkill in sideboard options and not worth it. Some players splash in the manabase while only running the splash color for SB cards.

Current Goblin removal only really Shocks things, burns bigger things if you already have a big board, or bounces/edicts a fatty. In general, you'd prefer to swing for the win, but you don't always have a single tutorable Goblin that removes ALL their blockers (in fact you never do) or you may be playing a grindier game where you don't have board position to swing for the win in one turn and are happier just killing their 1-3 blockers and killing them over several turns. In particular, giving Piledriver first strike is nice so it doesn't freaking die all the time (although Legion Loyalist can already do that for 1 mana)

But yeah, I didn't say this seemed good in Goblins. I said it seemed good off Goblin Lackey. Every other time it probably sucks the big one, not worth running.

BBG|Scott-Spain

09-03-2014, 12:23 PM

PirateKing

09-03-2014, 12:39 PM

Anyway... I have found this:

Wow last place I'd expect to find people talking about Tengger Cavalry. If they set is as awesome as the music, then we're all set.

rufus

09-03-2014, 01:15 PM

....
Anyway... I have found this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NO9lReN7HzI

Its mongolian folk metal. I will torture with it anyone who will mention this expansion (maybe whole block) to me in a manner that "it was good set". :D
...

So far I'm preferring the mogolian folk metal to the set.

Ellomdian

09-03-2014, 01:26 PM

This excites me way more than it should. Almost makes me want to put together some standard jank. Almost.

Yup. Just saw it this morning, and my MUD senses tingled. It's just... so... cheap...

Bed Decks Palyer

09-03-2014, 01:57 PM

I liked Tengger Cavalry. Reminds me of my ancestors.

Also, why the fuck are all the MtG players so thrilled of fuckugly illustrations and art concepts? What am I missing? Am I the only one who thinks that stuff like Macabre Waltz or Master of Cruelty simply shouldn't exist?

iamajellydonut

09-03-2014, 02:06 PM

So, a full cycle of "free" morph activations was spoiled and they all suck. Faaantastic.

lyracian

09-03-2014, 02:26 PM

So, a full cycle of "free" morph activations was spoiled and they all suck. Faaantastic.
The black one seems nice. Flipping for Deathtouch will make opponent think about blocking any morph creature you attack with.
While none of them are actually good enough for Legacy the mechanic of reveal card to Morph seems strong; I hope we have more creatures like this with stronger abilities.

rufus

09-03-2014, 02:44 PM

Are there any timing restrictions on Lens of Clarity's peak ability: Can you - for example - peak before every flip with Ad Nauseam?

Edit: I guess it does since stuff like Field of Dreams will do the same.

iamajellydonut

09-03-2014, 02:50 PM

Are there any timing restrictions on Lens of Clarity's peak ability: Can you - for example - peak before every flip with Ad Nauseam?

You can look any time. The only restriction is that if the top card changes as a result of something being put on the stack, you can't look until it's actually on the stack.

http://magiccards.info/zen/en/68.html
10/1/2009: If the top card of your library changes during the process of casting a spell or activating an ability, you can't look at the new top card until the process of casting the spell or activating the ability ends (all targets are chosen, all costs are paid, and so on).

Offler

09-03-2014, 02:57 PM

Wow last place I'd expect to find people talking about Tengger Cavalry. If they set is as awesome as the music, then we're all set.

Metalheads are everywhere :) However my evil plan has failed as I read the topic further... On Topic:

Dragon's Eye Savants 1U
Creature - Human Wizard
Morph - Reveal a Blue Card in your hand

When Dragon's Eye Savants are turned face up
you may look at target oponnent's hand.

0/6

Emmm. Seriously? But my oponnent already revealed all his cards with Ruthless ripper. And it does not matter that I am 0/6 - that assassin has deathtouch...

iamajellydonut

09-03-2014, 03:03 PM

The whole cycle is just awful.

HSCK

09-03-2014, 03:12 PM

They seem more than usable in limited play, which is probably what they were designed for.

Aggro_zombies

09-03-2014, 03:43 PM

They seem more than usable in limited play, which is probably what they were designed for.
Basically. I'm 99.99% that no card they would print with morph is going to be playable in Legacy. If there is one, it'll be entirely on the strength of its face-up stats and independent of your ability to waste three mana on a Grey Ogre in a format with Lightning Bolt, Punishing Fire, True-Name Nemesis, and Tarmogoyf.

LOLWut

09-03-2014, 04:28 PM

After seeing enough of how the new frame looks, my rankings:

Old frame > Future Sight frame > this frame > the last frame

And, I'd take a frame designed by an Uktabi Orangutan if it was framing nondigital art.

iamajellydonut

09-03-2014, 05:55 PM

As much a fanboy as I am off the classic frames, I've never really been against the 8th Edition frames. They were sleek, neat, and respectable. But try as I might I'm still not used to the new frames. They're got so many things that are purely superfluous and that black bar at the bottom gets in the way of much needed color and texture.

joven

09-03-2014, 06:41 PM

Clearly the chase rare of the new set is going to be this bruiser - ANKLE SHANKER

http://cdn.magicspoiler.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Ankle-Shanker-spoilers.jpg

Its ability seems quite strong (first strike+deathtouch). With haste there is not much the opponent can do about it especially considering the bad removal spells in current sets. In an aggressive Aggro deck with a few creatures out this is game win when this is coming down turn five, I guess.

It's the face rare of the Mardu Intro Pack. And Intro Pack rares are usually not chase rares, are they?

TsumiBand

09-03-2014, 10:59 PM

I don't actually like the card I just like saying it. 'ankle shanker'

it's funny, like 'turd ferguson' or 'butt trumpet'

you have to do the little head-shake like if stuffy whitey Frasier were to say 'baklava'

ankle shanker ankle shanker, oi oi oi

trollking21

09-04-2014, 12:01 AM

It's the face rare of the Mardu Intro Pack. And Intro Pack rares are usually not chase rares, are they?

Sometimes the intro pack rare sees play, but are not chase rares.

datanaga

09-04-2014, 03:23 AM

bruizar

09-04-2014, 05:57 AM

Sidisi, Blood Tyrant as a dread return target, perhaps. Haven't thought it through yet though. Needs better analysis. If you DR this, hit 3 creatures, put 3 zombies into play, you can DR again. Dredging with this in play seems like a good win, but there are probably better DR targets that win immediately all the time. At least a new toy to think about for the Dredge players out there.

Perhaps also Nic Fit variants using gifts ungiven or intuition / unburial rites package.

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/61/930/635451629690217576.png

Zombie

09-04-2014, 06:15 AM

Not three, one brain-muncher only. Read the ability more carefully.

Sloshthedark

09-04-2014, 06:16 AM

SCG has them for pre-order at $25. I'd say that is reasonable for fetches at the moment. Other places will probably have the on pre-order for closer to $20.

It was about Onslaught fetches... theres no reason to sell them cheap unless you have to

I liked Tengger Cavalry. Reminds me of my ancestors.

Also, why the fuck are all the MtG players so thrilled of fuckugly illustrations and art concepts? What am I missing? Am I the only one who thinks that stuff like Macabre Waltz or Master of Cruelty simply shouldn't exist?

the MW is unnecessary over the top, you should be fat 12 year old in Cannibal Corpse shirt to sling that, for me most of the new random "cool" plainswalker centered CG artwork is just plain ugly no matter what (maybe the new "old" border makes it cheap for me, you can find stupid ugly pics in Mirage era too), I agree art should not be extreme, I don't mind the demons/hell/boo themes, are so devaluated in modern culture (and has to depict more cruelty to satisfy now resistant people) but rape/woman abuse/whatever haven't crossed my mind looking at that Liliana/Garruk illustration, I wouldn't ever study the art in the first place (because generic and ugly) and I'm not sensitive for correctness... the names - I'm not native english speaker so the words do not have their proper meaning, might even sound cooler than they are, It'd feel really silly thinking of the cards by their "real" names, both funny and stupid, I understand the preference to convert into language you cannot read no matter what... like Andrew Shrout wrote the do not want to have weird and joke names and switches Canadian Threshold -> Rug delver... Bug vs Ant match in suits discussion is certainly whole new level for the Macabre Waltz slinger...

and to keep ontopic - the set is really unappealing so far from the legacy standpoint, yet more stupid mechanics for mandatory "new" keywords, and more ugly pictures to face and remember thanks to fetches, and burn in a T3 combo deck mode, hooray....

bruizar

09-04-2014, 06:52 AM

Not three, one brain-muncher only. Read the ability more carefully.

Right, goes straight to the $.25 bin. Guess they're reducing the power level of the set to reset standard, and use fetch to still make enough money on an otherwise crappy set.

bruizar

09-04-2014, 06:54 AM

It was about Onslaught fetches... theres no reason to sell them cheap unless you have to

Onslaught fetch is worthless unless its foil. If you don't care about pimping, you can settle for the cheapest version which is Khans of Tarkir. However, foil Tarkir fetch might be worth something as modern players probably want an all-modern layout deck and this is the first (not the last) with the new frame. Same thing with Rav duals.

Lemnear

09-04-2014, 07:13 AM

Onslaught fetch is worthless unless its foil. If you don't care about pimping, you can settle for the cheapest version which is Khans of Tarkir. However, foil Tarkir fetch might be worth something as modern players probably want an all-modern layout deck and this is the first (not the last) with the new frame. Same thing with Rav duals.

Wrong, Judge Fetchlands were also New Frame

TsumiBand

09-04-2014, 08:32 AM

Onslaught fetch is worthless unless its foil.

For realsies? Bloodstained Mire mids at like 33 USD; Polluted Delta lows at 44.

Is that really how fucking stupid the price of Legacy is, that a set of 40 dollar cards is 'worthless'? Some pricey-ass worthless shit ya got there.

joven

09-04-2014, 09:37 AM

I must say that I'm dissapointed with art of the new set, I expected something similar to Portal: Three Kingdoms, traditional art, ink and watercolours or similar art like in Genghis Khan (video game), army and horsemans etc., a lot of potencial went down the drain:/

I don't like Portal:Three Kingdoms at all. In my opinion that set should have never existed. Same for the artwork.
Tarkir art seems fine, a little bit too modern and digital but creative design seems quite good.

For realsies? Bloodstained Mire mids at like 33 USD; Polluted Delta lows at 44.

Is that really how fucking stupid the price of Legacy is, that a set of 40 dollar cards is 'worthless'? Some pricey-ass worthless shit ya got there.

I think they are talking in contrast to foils. Sure, a Judge Foil Polluted Delta is worth a lot. But who cares except the owners?

Tylert

09-04-2014, 09:54 AM

For realsies? Bloodstained Mire mids at like 33 USD; Polluted Delta lows at 44.

Is that really how fucking stupid the price of Legacy is, that a set of 40 dollar cards is 'worthless'? Some pricey-ass worthless shit ya got there.

I'm poor, but i like pimping my decks. I have onslaught fetch lands and will use these as long as i can't buy foil ones. I guess that foil new frame will be way over old non foil ones so i'll probably keep playing with old non foil fetchlands... (Old frame is nice anyways).

TsumiBand

09-04-2014, 10:20 AM

Tylert

09-04-2014, 10:23 AM

Well AFAICT when I traced the quote history the only person talking about 'pimping' was bruizar in his own post; the origin of the quote history goes back to someone saying "well at least it's a good set bc I can get cheaper fetches now"

Pimping is one's own prerogative, I suppose.

WHat i meant was: I agree with you. Onslaught fetches are not useless :)
Some people will want ONS fetches because they are old bordered and way less expensive that Foil ONS fetches. I'm in this wagon :)

TsumiBand

09-04-2014, 10:56 AM

I would play 4th Edition white bordered fetches at this point. I don't even. Hand me my Sharpie, it's the one that says "Broke Motherfucker".

sjmcc13

09-04-2014, 11:39 AM

WHat i meant was: I agree with you. Onslaught fetches are not useless :)
Some people will want ONS fetches because they are old bordered and way less expensive that Foil ONS fetches. I'm in this wagon :)

I want them (for Heaths and foothills) because that is what I have.

I have had sets of Deltas, Strands and Mires since OLS was standard Legal, but the area I was living in back then is rather humid and foils warped BADLY so I prefered non-foil cards as they were flat (and cheaper, I was a poor University student at the time).

joven

09-04-2014, 12:15 PM

Spoiler corrections:
Ankle Shanker is only 2/2 instead of 3/3 making it a bit less frighting.
Avalanche Tusker is 6/4 instead of 4/4 giving it more punch. :)

Barook

09-04-2014, 12:27 PM

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/62/21/635454228619927163.png

More expensive than Metamorph, but it can also copy Planeswalkers and enchantments.

iamajellydonut

09-04-2014, 12:36 PM

Spoiler corrections:
Ankle Shanker is only 2/2 instead of 3/3 making it a bit less frighting.

Jesus. And here we were thinking it was bad as a 3/3. They really don't want that card to be good.

bruizar

09-04-2014, 12:41 PM

Wrong, Judge Fetchlands were also New Frame

I'm not sure yet whether the old art can compensate for that big fat DCI marker on the judge fetch lands. I mean, no true pimp plays FNM foil Brainstorm and all. But then again, they managed to screw up the art on Khans of Tarkir fetch lands quiet royally. Not as bad as the stupid flavor text though.

Adryan

09-04-2014, 12:49 PM

I'm hoping for some good maindeckable Show&tell hate in non blue colors, that is as powerful as Thalia against Storm. I don't think you can hope for anything more from an Eternal players point of view.

Power level is as low as Theros. But maybe we get stuff like Keranos. Too weak for Standard, but good in Eternal formats. I still wonder why he's the best of the cycle. Red cards are supposed to suck.

Lemnear

09-04-2014, 12:52 PM

Aggro_zombies

09-04-2014, 03:48 PM

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/62/21/635454228619927163.png

More expensive than Metamorph, but it can also copy Planeswalkers and enchantments.
This seems like their Commander plant for the set - at least, it's more interesting and more likely to be a staple than any of the legendaries they've previewed so far. In that context, it's about as close as you can get to being a strict upgrade on Metamorph without actually being a strict upgrade to Metamorph.

Quick question for judges out there - if I copy an aura with this, what happens? Is the aura attached to anything? If so, when do I choose what it's going to enchant?