[Magic 2015] Spoiler Thread

[Lemnear]

Sorry, no trample.

One more shot: Craterhoof - one mana more but no delay for Ultimate ;)

[Darkenslight]

One more shot: Craterhoof - one mana more but no delay for Ultimate ;)

...You have to choose?:eek:

[sco0ter]

Grave Scrabbler will like Necromancer's Stockpile.

[nevilshute]

Grave Scrabbler will like Necromancer's Stockpile.

Neat. That's still :2::b::b: you need to invest to get two 2/2 zombies and draw a card. It needs another creature already in the yard to be truly exploited. Might be cool, still :smile:

[Megadeus]

Someone in the Zombardment thread had a great idea of Shambling Shell. Basically a 2 mana make a tapped 2/2 combo. I guess it works with grave troll as well. I could see some insane engine here.

[YamiJoey]

Is Aggressive Mining a possibility in Fastbond decks in Vintage? This + Crucible + Fastbond generates way too much card advantage for your opponents to deal with, and you could actually go 'infinite' with Fastbond, life Lands, and Crucible, drawing yourself four cards a turn for zero cost. I mean it's probably not as good as just a Yawgmoth's Bargain, but it's more sustainable, and if you just keep throwing disruption at your opponent's face whilst you tick up your Jace, that could be ace. (I am not sorry.)

[Vicar in a tutu]

Someone in the Zombardment thread had a great idea of Shambling Shell. Basically a 2 mana make a tapped 2/2 combo. I guess it works with grave troll as well. I could see some insane engine here.
How about Vengeful Pharaoh? It's a Zombie and has some cool synergies with being in the graveyard and returning to your hand. Obviously useless against combo, but quite cool against many fair decks.
EDIT: My bad, Pharaoh is returned to the top of the library, not to your hand. This obviously makes it much weaker.
EDIT II (Revenge of the Edit): Lotleth Troll seems quite good.

[TsumiBand]

I love Necromancer's Stockpile. The flavour text. The artwork. The value. There must be some cool tier 2 deck that can use this with Gravecrawler. Zombardment? Why, oh why isn't Bloodghast a zombie spirit?

Gravecrawler is a close second. :1::b::b: for 4 power - ehh not too shabby, considering the resilience of the guys involved.

There's also Undead Gladiator to keep your hand full. True you can only activate the ability at upkeep but it does keep you more or less 'online' and digging for cards.

If the format were so lousy with fast things that don't care about countermagic I would want to play a Goblin Trenches-style control deck with these cards; counter all the things, make Zombies, whittle whittle Wrath, make more Zombies, etc. A resolved Emmy pooches the whole deal, but w/e, Blue is broken and I whine about rrrything.

[Megadeus]

Don't think lotleth troll does anything worthwhile other than being another discard outlet. You don't want to discard him to the enchantment.

[Megadeus]

Maybe between this and lotleth troll, there are enough reasonable discard outlets to make vengevine playable.

[Tyrio]

Is Aggressive Mining a possibility in Fastbond decks in Vintage? This + Crucible + Fastbond generates way too much card advantage for your opponents to deal with, and you could actually go 'infinite' with Fastbond, life Lands, and Crucible, drawing yourself four cards a turn for zero cost. I mean it's probably not as good as just a Yawgmoth's Bargain, but it's more sustainable, and if you just keep throwing disruption at your opponent's face whilst you tick up your Jace, that could be ace. (I am not sorry.)

Being able to play any amount of lands a turn isn't a useful ability when you can't play any lands unfortunately. I think the card you were thinking about is Manabond, which bypasses Aggressive Mining's drawback. Obviously the best card to go with Manabond is Life from the Loam, and if you have a deck build around Loam and Manabond there's a good chance you're already consistent enough that you don't need to jump through the hoops of a 4 mana enchantment to function.

Maybe you could put it into some WRG Lands/Marit Lage/Seismic Assault shell for Legacy? Loam, Manabond, Punishing Fire, Flagstones of Trokair, Restore, Enlightened Tutor etc.

[Bobmans]

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/60/94/635397219911844312.jpeg

+ Eldrazi Conscription. Maybe in a (rector) Junk POD shell?

[Barook]

7 mana is unplayabe in Legacy. Sure, you could cheat it into play with Sneak and Show, but then you have a worse Emrakul that dies to StP (but being Karakas-immune). I don't think it's worth wasting slots in that kind of deck.

Reanimator might be a different kind of beast, but I doubt it would be better than existing options.

[Shawon]

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/60/94/635397219911844312.jpeg

+ Eldrazi Conscription. Maybe in a (rector) Junk POD shell?

This + Eldrazi Conscription + Dragon Breath = nut lolz

It's way too high CMC to better than anything that's probably more efficient in Pod. As one Pod player in Modern told me, you should end the game after you Pod into a five-drop or higher. You probably have better stuff at 4-5 CMC in Legacy.

[atopebenidorm]

http://media.wizards.com/images/magic/tcg/products/m15/sf0JdVsk2/EN_sc088ng6un.png


Eureka.deck incoming... this guy + nicol bolas + karn with a Omnishow pack. Very nice :tongue:

GARBAGE CARD.

[thecrav]

This was posted on the mtgfinance reddit (http://i.imgur.com/YoTqpUD.jpg)

The holo on M15 cards appears to be cut from a holo sheet at random. As a result, copies of the same card may have a different holo. Two and a half things:

1. If you want to inspect carefully, this can undo the strategic advantage that same art/printing gives you
2. I'll be curious to see if people want to pimp this way eg JtMS with a blue symbol being more prized than another JtMS
2.5 Given the above, I wonder if stores or ebay sellers will be noting what symbol appears on the holo

edit: oh jesus, that image was huge. changed to a link.

[Barook]

This was posted on the mtgfinance reddit (http://i.imgur.com/YoTqpUD.jpg)

The holo on M15 cards appears to be cut from a holo sheet at random. As a result, copies of the same card may have a different holo. Two and a half things:

1. If you want to inspect carefully, this can undo the strategic advantage that same art/printing gives you
2. I'll be curious to see if people want to pimp this way eg JtMS with a blue symbol being more prized than another JtMS
2.5 Given the above, I wonder if stores or ebay sellers will be noting what symbol appears on the holo

edit: oh jesus, that image was huge. changed to a link.
This is dumb.

1. Question is how good it's going to be recognized under a sleeve.

2. If people pay for this kind of shit, they deserve everything they got.

[JPoJohnson]

This was posted on the mtgfinance reddit (http://i.imgur.com/YoTqpUD.jpg)

The holo on M15 cards appears to be cut from a holo sheet at random. As a result, copies of the same card may have a different holo. Two and a half things:

1. If you want to inspect carefully, this can undo the strategic advantage that same art/printing gives you
2. I'll be curious to see if people want to pimp this way eg JtMS with a blue symbol being more prized than another JtMS
2.5 Given the above, I wonder if stores or ebay sellers will be noting what symbol appears on the holo

edit: oh jesus, that image was huge. changed to a link.

I'm happy to sell the cards to those seeking special things, but there is no way I would go out of my way to get a certain holo on my card.

[big_ticket]

chord of calling will be reprinted yes..

[Jamaican Zombie Legend]

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/60/112/635397668795631292.png

The new Sliver Lord is...unimpressive. And it's not a 7/7 like the other three were. Oh well...at least it actually looks like a Sliver.

[Barook]

The design is kinda uninspired. And why is it only a 5/5? Didn't Wizards learn they shouldn't mess with the Sliver formula?

At least the art seems kinda okay.

[TsumiBand]

If not for Terminus, this guy + Crystalline Sliver = BETCH WHAT

[lyracian]

The design is kinda uninspired. And why is it only a 5/5? Didn't Wizards learn they shouldn't mess with the Sliver formula?
At least the art seems kinda okay.
If you can be bothered to read the Mothership article it says they reduced it from 7/7 during play testing as it was too strong in Standard Control as a finisher...
Overall seems a nice edition to Sliver EDH just too slow for competitive Modern/Legacy decks. It also means we are not getting Hexproof sliver as there is no way they would let it exist in the same format as the Hive Lord. Four Slivers to go; still a slim chance we will get a useful 1-2 CMC addition to the team...

[Bobmans]

How i'd love to get broken with slivers in legacy...
I do not think it's will get better then Sliver queen + basal sliver + heart sliver + gemhide sliver.
To unstable, too many cards required and to many resources to get this going.

[Anen]

How i'd love to get broken with slivers in legacy...
I do not think it's will get better then Sliver queen + basal sliver + heart sliver + gemhide sliver.
To unstable, too many cards required and to many resources to get this going.

Sliver queen + Mana Echoes is close to equivalent.

[Bobmans]

Sliver queen + Mana Echoes is close to equivalent.

True, nice find. However the nice part about having those slivers as combo pieces is that they are all slivers. Besides Basal Sliver being the oddball here the rest have some kind of individual contribution towards a possible plan B.

[Richard Cheese]

If not for Terminus

I find myself saying this a lot lately. Usually after I lose a match.

[nedleeds]

The new Sliver Lord is...unimpressive. And it's not a 7/7 like the other three were. Oh well...at least it actually looks like a Sliver.

Wake me up when we get rescue sliver

1W - 2/2 Flash
ETB, Exile all other Slivers you control, return them EOT.

[nedleeds]

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/60/94/635397219911844312.jpeg

+ Eldrazi Conscription. Maybe in a (rector) Junk POD shell?

Show and Tell?

[firebadmattgood]

The design is kinda uninspired.

"DIS GUY MAKE ALL MY DUDES HAVE INDESTRUCTIBILITY RAAH YEAH!" - the five year old that designed this thing.

[PirateKing]

"DIS GUY MAKE ALL MY DUDES HAVE INDESTRUCTIBILITY RAAH YEAH!" - the five year old that designed this thing.

Remember: here he rules!

[HammafistRoob]

[COLOR="#800080"]If you can be bothered to read the Mothership article it says they reduced it from 7/7 during play testing as it was too strong in Standard Control as a finisher...
I'm gonna have to call bullshit on this. First of all, it's five colors and shocklands are rotating out. Secondly, Ætherling was 1000000 times better as a finisher for control, he was actually just the most annoying card in standard. I would rather have Ætherling as my finisher than a 5 colorless cmc 7/7 indestructible dude. Standard has ways to deal with indestructible dweebs, Ætherling? Not so much.

[Megadeus]

The design is kinda uninspired. And why is it only a 5/5? Didn't Wizards learn they shouldn't mess with the Sliver formula?

At least the art seems kinda okay.

I said the same thing about the design being pretty boring for a 5 color sliver on my local stores face book page and everyone just said I was a Debbie downer...

[Barook]

I'm gonna have to call bullshit on this. First of all, it's five colors and shocklands are rotating out. Secondly, Ætherling was 1000000 times better as a finisher for control, he was actually just the most annoying card in standard. I would rather have Ætherling as my finisher than a 5 colorless cmc 7/7 indestructible dude. Standard has ways to deal with indestructible dweebs, Ætherling? Not so much.
It's pretty depressing when you think about.

R&D Member 1: Look, our new Sliver legend is actually playable.
Everybody else: NERF!

As far as colors are concerned, we don't know how Khans' manabases look like. We could still get a Wedge theme (with an artifact sub-theme if M15 is any hint, see Esper Shard).

[TsumiBand]

So, on an outside chance here, it may be that it was perceived as too strong for Standard because there is some rad synergy between it and some other yet-to-be-spoiled Sliver.

Actually.. given the steady uptick in creatures for the last several years, it would almost have to be so, right? A 5/5 Indestructible for WUBRG is a tad under the curve for modern R&D, even in Standard.

I mean, look at the other 5-color dudes in Modern.

http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?color=+[W]+[U]+[B]+[R]+[G]&format=[%22Modern%22]&type=+[Creature]&sort=cmc+

Chromanticore isn't above the curve, but Durdle Sliver is? Not unless there's a Sliver hanging out in the wings waiting to break it. It'd be real hard to convince most folks that in a vacuum a 5-color 5/5 is busting too many heads in Standard.

[Aggro_zombies]

If the new Sliver general were seven power he would actually just be ridiculously obnoxious in EDH. You could run Crystalline, Hibernation, and some evasion slivers and then build a Five Color Control deck around that. Since your general is ridiculously difficult to answer you end up with a guy who kills in the magic three swings and whose built-in resiliency means you can save your counters for the Wraths that count (Terminus, Hallowed Burial, BSZ, Mutilate, etc). It would be Yet Another Boring, Overpowered Dude.

With all the exile in Standard I doubt a 7/7 indestructible Sliver would actually be that overpowered. It would be less obnoxious than Soul of New Phyrexia since it would be virtually impossible to cast once Chromatic Lantern and shocks rotated.

[Vicar in a tutu]

http://img.tcgplayer.com/tcg_img/media_tcg/stainthemind.jpg

Sideboard card in Elves against other combo decks?

[nedleeds]

Just GSZ a Birchlore Ranger and Slaughter Games?

[Lemnear]

Magic 2015: Take old cards and add convoke

[TsumiBand]

Magic 2015: Take old cards and add convoke

Honestly m15 is weird in its execution but this is an inaccurate troll. You forgot to randomly drop MaRo into the mix.

You know what would be randomly funny, would be a turn 2/3 Stain the Mind off of a super aggro hand. Turn one -> land, Dark Ritual, some combination of black 2-power 1 drops; turn 2 -> land, tap all your permanents, play Stain the Mind, naming whatever sucks for you.

That's 7 cards, of course (2 land, 1 Stain, 3 creatures, 1 Dark Ritual), and there are stronger Godhands to be sure, but I love Cranial Extraction-style effects because they tend to be somewhat Spanish Inquisition. What do you do with a Miracle deck that has no Miracles? And it wouldn't be *totally* unreasonable to cast this mid-late, though I'd rather be casting something harder to answer like Slaughter Games -- assuming I even wanted to actually be casting any of these spells of course -- but why play it so safe when you could live the dream of Convoking away the good stuff and then beating for 6? It's so bad, it wraps back around to nearly good. Which makes it terrible. Which makes it *awesome*.

[Bobmans]

Honestly m15 is weird in its execution but this is an inaccurate troll. You forgot to randomly drop MaRo into the mix.

You know what would be randomly funny, would be a turn 2/3 Stain the Mind off of a super aggro hand. Turn one -> land, Dark Ritual, some combination of black 2-power 1 drops; turn 2 -> land, tap all your permanents, play Stain the Mind, naming whatever sucks for you.

That's 7 cards, of course (2 land, 1 Stain, 3 creatures, 1 Dark Ritual), and there are stronger Godhands to be sure, but I love Cranial Extraction-style effects because they tend to be somewhat Spanish Inquisition. What do you do with a Miracle deck that has no Miracles? And it wouldn't be *totally* unreasonable to cast this mid-late, though I'd rather be casting something harder to answer like Slaughter Games -- assuming I even wanted to actually be casting any of these spells of course -- but why play it so safe when you could live the dream of Convoking away the good stuff and then beating for 6? It's so bad, it wraps back around to nearly good. Which makes it terrible. Which makes it *awesome*.

Swamp, thoughtseize, surgical extraction. Just three cards, 2 life, 1 mana. Used to play Haunting Echoes, that stuff was hot. M15 is so far just underwhelming.

[Barook]

Magic 2015: Take old cards and add convoke
More like:

Magic 2015: Take old cards, add additional mana costs and maybe Convoke to it.

[TsumiBand]

Swamp, thoughtseize, surgical extraction. Just three cards, 2 life, 1 mana. Used to play Haunting Echoes, that stuff was hot. M15 is so far just underwhelming.
<3 Haunting Echoes.

Anyway, Surgical != Cranial because you name the card with Cranial Extraction, but yes you're right of course, less cards. That's less derpy though :(

[Dice_Box]

Until changes happen at the top of Wizards, I think we have all but seen the end of spell driven sets. The cards now days all feel like they are pushing harder and harder on creature interactions. The issue here being that the increase in hate bears may start having have a major adverse effect on the game. Where Lodestone almost single-handedly did the most damage to Vintage, I feel like we might hit that wall in Legacy. Not to say that cards like TNN and Delver have not already had a strong effect in warping the format, but I feel like the worst may still be yet to come.

I feel that, because now spells have been toned down Wizards feel like Blue needs effective creatures to use in a changing format. While I agree that this makes logical sense, it has created the issue in older formats where the old powerful blue spells have not rotated out, the issues is compounded to give one colour more dominance that it realistically should have. A flaw in game design? No, I think it's a flaw in the changing ideals behind the printing of cards.

I almost miss the days where Goyf was known as the best blue creature in legacy. Wow, how things turn around. Something tells me, it can only really get worse from here.

[Barook]

http://38.media.tumblr.com/f53cb8809fb613f6d12a63d6f035df2f/tumblr_n828y47XdY1qjqvxao1_500.jpg

Ignore the terrible effect for a moment - the card name and the flavor text in combination with the rather phallic dick rock reflected in her googles is pretty hilarious.

[rufus]

...

Sideboard card in Elves against other combo decks?

Or affinity.

[.dk]

Ignore the terrible effect for a moment - the card name and the flavor text in combination with the rather phallic dick rock reflected in her googles is pretty hilarious.

Why is the effect bad? LED becomes Black Lotus to cast any of those cards. In fact, LED can be IN those 3 cards and be Black Lotus for the rest. Seems situational, sure, but I don't know about terrible...

[Megadeus]

Is there a way to set up a perfect 3 cards? Top I assume would be here. Top + BS might get there. Plus maybe personal tutor, and now your deck is complete garbage?

[Namida]

Is there a way to set up a perfect 3 cards? Top I assume would be here. Top + BS might get there. Plus maybe personal tutor, and now your deck is complete garbage?

Doomsday is an option for stacking your deck, but I don't really see a reason to play Act of Impulse over Ideas Unbound or Infernal Contract.

[Megadeus]

Actually not terrible. Like has been said, you could set up LED to be one of the three or something and it's a black lotus. Doomsday is the one deck in the format that I think I really have 0 clue on how to play it. So maybe I'm wrong, but it seems like it COULD be a thing. Cast DD. In order:

Act on Impulse
LED
Probe
Lab Maniac
Probe

Probably bad?

[Namida]

Actually not terrible. Like has been said, you could set up LED to be one of the three or something and it's a black lotus. Doomsday is the one deck in the format that I think I really have 0 clue on how to play it. So maybe I'm wrong, but it seems like it COULD be a thing. Cast DD. In order:

Act on Impulse
LED
Probe
Lab Maniac
Probe

Probably bad?

I don't think it's terrible, but it's not better than what's already available. This Act of Impulse pile is less color intensive than using Ideas Unbound instead, but I don't know that one red mana is better than two blue mana here. Also, Act on Impulse outside of your combo turn costs more mana than Ideas Unbound, is in a more awkward color than Ideas Unbound, and exiling cards in your toolbox deck means that you have a chance of just throwing the game away by exiling your Maniac.

This card isn't bad, but I hope that it proves to be safe enough to maybe push this effect a bit more. If this was Exile 4, it might have a shot of being in the Wishboard instead of Infernal Contract.

[Lemnear]

Sorry but for the drawback of having the cards only available for a single turn, the cost is far too High. It has to compete with Ideas Unbound, Meditate, Infernal Contract and the like which all have a better ratio of mana/card access than Act. I can't see this doing anything for Legacy, but in Moderns Pyromancer Ascension decks this thing is maybe a bit more reasonable without Ponder and Preordain available.

[Bobmans]

It's ability may be used in a red splash MUD variant (welder/godo?) where mana is less of an issue.


The cards now days all feel like they are pushing harder and harder on creature interactions.

Well Wizards already admitted this statement. I read an article a while back (when people where questioning the printing of Griselbrand where Wizards explained that they had seen mtg grow go broken and being all about powerfull spells. They said that the basis of the game was designed to have the main focus on creatures and battles between them and players. Back then they where afraid that if they made (too) powerfull creatures that the game would have been unbalanced. Innitial design of big creatures did have major drawbacks like with Lord of the Pit or Force of Nature. Back then when people where building decks it was all about just getting big creatures into play like force of nature. It was later when people starting thinking about efficiency. By the time Urza's Legacy was printed they made the biggest error by printing Memory Jar, which enabled a completly broken deck named Dream Halls. They even tried to get all those printed Memory Jar's back. You could return it to your LGS in exchange for a new booster. The Urza block was (for me) the most exciting period of MTG. Grim Monolith, Yawgmoth's Bargain, Tinker, Voltaic Key, Yawgmoth's Will, Sneak Attack, Tolarian Academyetc. The coolest of cards come from that period. Those cards for me are the reason i play the eternal formats. Wizards is all about balancing the game into streamlined boringness...

[Lemnear]

Rule of MTG design #1: Cards are balanced by their manacost -> mana is ALWAYS an issue. Investing 3 mana to draw into 5+ mana robots is a total nonsense as you would be able to cast a maximum of 0-1 creatures unless you have a shitload of Cloudposts which could also fuel a Kozilek for cardadvantage

Edit: The Chain Veil sucks ass @LilianaUnveiled

Edit 2: pic added

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/attachments/129/830/635398526076392987.png

[joven]

Damn, even the tokens got a new frame and look a lot less beautiful than before. At least the name field is pretty ugly now.
I liked the old tokens a lot, I am not sure why, maybe it was that picture frame which was rounded at the top and at the bottom.
Now it's just rounded at the top and that doesn't harmonize with the full width black bar that is now the name field.

[nedleeds]

Is there a way to set up a perfect 3 cards? Top I assume would be here. Top + BS might get there. Plus maybe personal tutor, and now your deck is complete garbage?

We've had a better bluer, instant version of this since before half or you were alive.

http://magiccards.info/scans/en/vi/45.jpg

[TsumiBand]

We've had a better bluer, instant version of this since before half or you were alive.

http://magiccards.info/scans/en/vi/45.jpg
Right, but not in Red.
Red has been getting a ton of this 'non-draw' stuff lately, which I personally find immensely appealing. I'm fine with Blue having the corner market on card draw, but this and other Red effects are really doing a lot to ensure that Blue isn't the only color that can tear through its deck looking for tools.
...come to think of it, Three Wishes might have been nice in Spring Tide back in the day. Wonder if, like, blue-heavy Affinity could shit more robots with it.

[Zombie]

I wish green got more honest, Harmonize-style raw draw at sorcery speed. The creatures and lands boner WotC has is annoying as hell. Can't draw spells with green, no sir. Have big dumb baloth, yes good little Timmy -_-'

Would be really nice if blue was more focused on filtering and some instant speed draw and green competed in the sorcery speed draw department. Maybe with GG in the cost mandatory.

[Deviruchi]

It is a shame that Act on Impulse doesn't cost 1R or exile 4 cards for 2R. Interesting card in spite of all.

[nedleeds]

Right, but not in Red.
Red has been getting a ton of this 'non-draw' stuff lately, which I personally find immensely appealing. I'm fine with Blue having the corner market on card draw, but this and other Red effects are really doing a lot to ensure that Blue isn't the only color that can tear through its deck looking for tools.
...come to think of it, Three Wishes might have been nice in Spring Tide back in the day. Wonder if, like, blue-heavy Affinity could shit more robots with it.

More directed at the people who want to play U/B Doomsday with it. Making a sorcery speed red Three Wishes, where the shit stays permanently exiled is not exciting.

[.dk]

We've had a better bluer, instant version of this since before half or you were alive.


Yes, and that (being blue) is probably the one reason that Act on Impulse actually has a shot at being a 1-of in Doomsday. Ideas Unbound and Meditate both get hit by REB, so Infernal Contract/Cruel Bargain is your only backup draw spell. While BBB isn't awful in a dark ritual deck, the extra lifeloss post-Doomsday can be pretty bad sometimes. In builds that run Chant effects, REB isn't as big of a deal, since Chant protects from it, but for the 3 color versions running Discard as your only protection, I could see a universe where Act on Impulse gets the nod as the backup draw spell.

[Lemnear]

I wish green got more honest, Harmonize-style raw draw at sorcery speed. The creatures and lands boner WotC has is annoying as hell. Can't draw spells with green, no sir. Have big dumb baloth, yes good little Timmy -_-'

Would be really nice if blue was more focused on filtering and some instant speed draw and green competed in the sorcery speed draw department. Maybe with GG in the cost mandatory.

Tbh, more reasonable costed Collective Unconcious effects might be fine too or a harmonize with convoke. I can imagine other forms of card advantage for green too like they did with Blade Splicer aka creature comes with a token, but the idea to sacrifice a big creature to draw cards as a sorcery (not even instant to react to removal) is a total brainfart done in this set.

[TsumiBand]

More directed at the people who want to play U/B Doomsday with it. Making a sorcery speed red Three Wishes, where the shit stays permanently exiled is not exciting.

I think any spell that is potentially +1 spell this turn at a 1:1 mana-to-spell ratio is worth a look, especially if it is outside of Blue.

I mean shit, Meditate was "draw four, your opponent Time Walks though", and it was played quite a lot in Solidarity and friends. If 4 cards is worth risking giving the opponent an extra turn (and it is -- I'm certainly not the only person who has cast Meditate during opponent's EOT, watched the opponent take their extra turn, and proceeded to win), 3 cards now has got to have value, especially in a color with so few real draw spells to choose from.

[.dk]

Oh yeah, probably obvious but... Act on Impulse being a sorcery means you can Burning Wish for it, actually giving it the potential to be backup draw spell in DDFT.

[nedleeds]

I think any spell that is potentially +1 spell this turn at a 1:1 mana-to-spell ratio is worth a look, especially if it is outside of Blue.

I mean shit, Meditate was "draw four, your opponent Time Walks though", and it was played quite a lot in Solidarity and friends. If 4 cards is worth risking giving the opponent an extra turn (and it is -- I'm certainly not the only person who has cast Meditate during opponent's EOT, watched the opponent take their extra turn, and proceeded to win), 3 cards now has got to have value, especially in a color with so few real draw spells to choose from.

Well you can't make your land drop, cast this and hope to do a whole lot except exile the top 3 cards of your library pee on them and set them on fire. If you are playing some kind of mono red / non blue combo with a bunch of IMSs like petal or opal or LED then you are in fact playing almost blue, you might as well play Tezzeret's Gambit and draw 2 magic cards that don't get burned at EOT. This card is a piece of shit.

[TsumiBand]

Well you can't make your land drop, cast this and hope to do a whole lot except exile the top 3 cards of your library pee on them and set them on fire. If you are playing some kind of mono red / non blue combo with a bunch of IMSs like petal or opal or LED then you are in fact playing almost blue, you might as well play Tezzeret's Gambit and draw 2 magic cards that don't get burned at EOT. This card is a piece of shit.

Meh, the cards speak for themselves on a long enough time line. Personally I would lol the bed if I cast this and like went Chain Lightning + double Fireblast, or pooped a load of Affinity guys/spells out, or some similar durdles

[Rush80]

Kurkesh, Onakke Ancient
2 R R
Legendary Creature - Ogre Spirit
Whenever you activate an ability of an artifact, if it isn't a mana ability, you may pay R.
If you do, copy that ability. You may choose new targets for the copy.


Any good stuff here?

[Richard Cheese]

Meh, the cards speak for themselves on a long enough time line.

No no, this is the Source, and we only deal in hyperbole. This card is garbage, just like Deathrite is mediocre at best, and Temporal Mastery is going to ruin the format. Every new set is the worst set ever.

[nedleeds]

Kurkesh, Onakke Ancient
2 R R
Legendary Creature - Ogre Spirit
Whenever you activate an ability of an artifact, if it isn't a mana ability, you may pay R.
If you do, copy that ability. You may choose new targets for the copy.


Any good stuff here?

You forgot the best part ... for 4 mana you get 3 toughness.

[Rush80]

You forgot the best part ... for 4 mana you get 3 toughness.

But 4 power! :smile:

It is a yet to be broken card!

[Darkenslight]

You forgot the best part ... for 4 mana you get 3 toughness.

Entertaining EDH card, but unlikely to figure in anything outside of a weird three-color Thopter deck, or Making two artifacts with Liquimetal Coating.

[Namida]

Oh yeah, probably obvious but... Act on Impulse being a sorcery means you can Burning Wish for it, actually giving it the potential to be backup draw spell in DDFT.

Act of Impulse is also a draw 3, so most piles you'd make with it are basically Ideas Unbound piles that cost one more mana. If that's the case, isn't a second copy of Ideas Unbound just going to be better in this scenario? Of course, no one is playing Ideas Unbound in their sideboard anyway because it isn't a sideboard card (you're never bringing it in). As an actual sideboard card, however, Act of Impulse is weak because it doesn't let you build up cards in your hand like Infernal Contract does against discard and the ilk, and I don't like the idea of casting this and permanently exiling my one-of cards like Ideas Unbound. That being said, if I could think of any Act of Impulse piles that could actually draw my whole deck post-Doomsday without casting a blue spell, I'd definitely give this a shot....but I think you end up giving up the bottom card of your pile if you play a draw 3 and can't cast cantrips, so this card doesn't seem like an effective way to fight Pyroblasts.

[nedleeds]

Entertaining EDH card, but unlikely to figure in anything outside of a weird three-color Thopter deck, or Making two artifacts with Liquimetal Coating.

If I'm coating something I'm promptly smashing the fuck out of it with a Viashino Heretic or a Mox Monkey or if I want it I'm stealing it with Dak. Like ... your Island.

[Barook]

If I'm coating something I'm promptly smashing the fuck out of it with a Viashino Heretic or a Mox Monkey or if I want it I'm stealing it with Dak. Like ... your Island.
That sounds pretty hilarious. There's also stuff like double Wasteland activations etc.

Is there a way to reliably convert coloress mana into red mana for Grim Monolith, Basalt Monolith and friends to go infinite? I guess there's Manaforge Cinder, but it can't go into monored EDH decks due to hybrid mana, right?

[.dk]

Act of Impulse is also a draw 3, so most piles you'd make with it are basically Ideas Unbound piles that cost one more mana. If that's the case, isn't a second copy of Ideas Unbound just going to be better in this scenario? Of course, no one is playing Ideas Unbound in their sideboard anyway because it isn't a sideboard card (you're never bringing it in). As an actual sideboard card, however, Act of Impulse is weak because it doesn't let you build up cards in your hand like Infernal Contract does against discard and the ilk, and I don't like the idea of casting this and permanently exiling my one-of cards like Ideas Unbound. That being said, if I could think of any Act of Impulse piles that could actually draw my whole deck post-Doomsday without casting a blue spell, I'd definitely give this a shot....but I think you end up giving up the bottom card of your pile if you play a draw 3 and can't cast cantrips, so this card doesn't seem like an effective way to fight Pyroblasts.

Very fair points - it's not an ideal card for sure, but like I said, I could see a universe where it is decent enough to earn a Burning Wish slot. I'll end up testing it, but I doubt it will beat out Cruel Bargain.

[Tokugawa]

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/attachments/129/849/635398997346618931.jpg

Good design, but doesn't worth splashing B for it in sliver decks.

[thecrav]

http://mythicspoiler.com/m15/cards/ensoulartifact.jpg

I'm really hoping this is a mistranslation and "base power and toughness" isn't a real thing

[phonics]

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/attachments/129/849/635398997346618931.jpg

Good design, but doesn't worth splashing B for it in sliver decks.

I wonder why they made it that way instead of having something like "all slivers you control have: "whenever this creature attacks, the defending player loses one life" or something like that.

[alphacat]

http://mythicspoiler.com/m15/cards/ensoulartifact.jpg

I'm really hoping this is a mistranslation and "base power and toughness" isn't a real thing

It's a core set, and Wizards decided that they'd use 'easier and more intuitive' language for the sake of new players, see Convoke reminder text. I doubt this is gonna be a thing for non-core sets.

[thecrav]

I wonder why they made it that way instead of having something like "all slivers you control have: "whenever this creature attacks, the defending player loses one life" or something like that.

Probably for the same reason as "base power and toughness" - they're dumbing down card wording

[Bed Decks Palyer]

I don't have a trouble with "base p&t", I'm used to much more obscure wording from 93/94.
Ok, so we got walking scissors? Walking scissors, right?


:confused:

[Dice_Box]

They should just bring back the Sword and Shield from the old starter sets. "Here you are, what have done ALL your thinking for you."

[Darkenslight]

They should just bring back the Sword and Shield from the old starter sets. "Here you are, what have done ALL your thinking for you."

Oh, Portal. Those made it so much easier to parse power and toughness.

[TsumiBand]

Portal also made cards with the type "Sorcery" that you could only cast during combat and decided to change the simple word 'block' to 'intercept'. Not a great pointer to simplicity.

"[this] becomes a creature with base power and toughness 5/5" is really a huge departure from "[this] becomes a 5/5 creature" and is ugly as hell.

That has got to be a poor translation; Nissa's spoiled planeswalker card uses the old "becomes a 4/4 Elemental" wording, and Hornet Nest doesn't mention "base power and toughness" at all. While it's possible that two very different wordings might be employed, I strongly doubt that both would appear in the same set.

[Barook]

Wording aside, what do you think about its playability?

It's UB Tezzeret's -1 ability on a card. A 5/5 beater thrown on a cheap (useless) artifact doesn't sound too bad. And stuff like beating down an opponent with a 5/5 Chalice sounds pretty hilarious when they don't have access to Decay.

[Cire]

1 - Darksteel Citadel
2 - Seat of the Synod + Mox Opal --> Ensoul Citadel. Attack with 5/5 indestructible. You're in blue so hold back your FOW for a STP?

[H]

Portal also made cards with the type "Sorcery" that you could only cast during combat and decided to change the simple word 'block' to 'intercept'. Not a great pointer to simplicity.

"[this] becomes a creature with base power and toughness 5/5" is really a huge departure from "[this] becomes a 5/5 creature" and is ugly as hell.

That has got to be a poor translation; Nissa's spoiled planeswalker card uses the old "becomes a 4/4 Elemental" wording, and Hornet Nest doesn't mention "base power and toughness" at all. While it's possible that two very different wordings might be employed, I strongly doubt that both would appear in the same set.

It's really worded that way (http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/90638635133/why-does-ensoul-artifact-say-base-power-and).


It’s a new template. It means instead of their written power/toughness (what’s actually printed on the card) it is now a 3/3. All things that change the p/t (auras, equipment and counters) still work as normal.

[Barook]

1 - Darksteel Citadel
2 - Seat of the Synod + Mox Opal --> Ensoul Citadel. Attack with 5/5 indestructible. You're in blue so hold back your FOW for a STP?
I don't think it's just normal artifacts that can be turned into creatures. It can also be used to buff creatures to make them extremely lethal threats. Ornithopter, Vault Skirge and Signal Pest come into mind. Sure, it's a 2-card combo that sucks against removal, but if you can prevent that (e.g. with a FoW or Chalice), stuff like swinging with a 5/5 flying lifelinker on T2 is kinda disgusting.

Maybe it sucks due to the potential card disadvantage, but I would certainly keep an eye on that card.

[theillest]

I don't think it's just normal artifacts that can be turned into creatures. It can also be used to buff creatures to make them extremely lethal threats. Ornithopter, Vault Skirge and Signal Pest come into mind. Sure, it's a 2-card combo that sucks against removal, but if you can prevent that (e.g. with a FoW or Chalice), stuff like swinging with a 5/5 flying lifelinker on T2 is kinda disgusting.

Maybe it sucks due to the potential card disadvantage, but I would certainly keep an eye on that card.

The 2 for 1 potential of auras will always be a problem. In legacy, tezz and plating overshadow ensoul artifact in the areas of making 5/5s and swinging hard. It's cool but I don't think it'll make the cut.

[Infinitium]

Nah, it's plenty possible that can see play in Affinity - 5/5 with what amounts to haste for 1U is plenty above the curve, card disadvantage nonwithstanding (especially as it can make use of any number of surplus 0cc artifacts).

[BBG|Scott-Spain]

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/attachments/129/849/635398997346618931.jpg

Good design, but doesn't worth splashing B for it in sliver decks.

True, but this does justify B for Modern now.

By the way, would it be okay to have a Modern M15 thread, or is it too redundant?

[JPoJohnson]

True, but this does justify B for Modern now.

By the way, would it be okay to have a Modern M15 thread, or is it too redundant?

This is the spoiler thread, I would just discuss it here.

I don't think this card alone makes slivers modern viable.

[TsumiBand]

It isn't that bad. Multiple Leeching Slivers would trigger separately, so attacking with two Leeching Slivers = opponent loses 4 life before blockers.

I could see an argument for Jund Slivers -- there's an interesting suicidal interaction between Leeching Sliver and Acidic Sliver, and one could easily deal quite a bit of damage/life loss while swinging with impunity (or at least, not giving a rip if the opponent decides to block)

4 Muscle Sliver
4 Predatory Sliver
4 Leeching Sliver
2-4 Acidic Sliver
4 Sedge Sliver
2-4 haste-granting Slivers
4 Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Thoughtseize
2-4 Abrupt Decay

Some # of Land Spells


No, you don't get Crystalline Sliver, but something something Terminus, something Shroud not that clutch, something. Play burn spells and dudes and just get 'em. Don't care. Also, am I just a shitty little kid or is a haste granting Sliver + Manaweft/Gemhide Sliver not the finest way to just crap a hand of dudes onto the table.

[HammerAndSickled]

I mean the problem is that most of the time this effect is just worse than another lord, right? And slivers already had 12 lords and phantasmal image.

[Megadeus]

How about aggressive mining in like a storm deck that uses it to restock its hand? Then You still have petals and chrome moxes to give you the mana needed to go off?

[btm10]

Until changes happen at the top of Wizards, I think we have all but seen the end of spell driven sets. The cards now days all feel like they are pushing harder and harder on creature interactions. The issue here being that the increase in hate bears may start having have a major adverse effect on the game. Where Lodestone almost single-handedly did the most damage to Vintage, I feel like we might hit that wall in Legacy. Not to say that cards like TNN and Delver have not already had a strong effect in warping the format, but I feel like the worst may still be yet to come.

I feel that, because now spells have been toned down Wizards feel like Blue needs effective creatures to use in a changing format. While I agree that this makes logical sense, it has created the issue in older formats where the old powerful blue spells have not rotated out, the issues is compounded to give one colour more dominance that it realistically should have. A flaw in game design? No, I think it's a flaw in the changing ideals behind the printing of cards.

I almost miss the days where Goyf was known as the best blue creature in legacy. Wow, how things turn around. Something tells me, it can only really get worse from here.

I agree, but if the trend continues, Legacy will just eventually become very Modern-like, and those of us who play it because it feels more like the MtG we're used to than do Standard or Modern will probably just pick up Vintage like happened in the early 2000's. Most of us already own Forces and blue Duals (and are older and more financially secure than the average Standard/Modern player), so it's not like Power/Bazaars/Shops are out of reach for a significant fraction of the current Legacy playerbase that doesn't own them already. And if new cards continue to infiltrate Vintage and make it not fun too, I have no problem playing either Old School 93/94 or a variant that allows cards up to 5th Edition or even something that ends with Urza's Destiny.

[lyracian]

I agree, but if the trend continues, Legacy will just eventually become very Modern-like, and those of us who play it because it feels more like the MtG we're used to than do Standard or Modern will probably just pick up Vintage like happened in the early 2000's. Most of us already own Forces and blue Duals (and are older and more financially secure than the average Standard/Modern player), so it's not like Power/Bazaars/Shops are out of reach for a significant fraction of the current
For me the fact that main deck Red Elemental Blast is playable in a competitive deck says there is something wrong with the colour balance. Overall though I am surprised at how few broken cards we have ended up with after 20 years. I know personally I have no interest in Vintage; if Legacy stopped being fun I would move off to EDH, Cube or Pauper.


I mean the problem is that most of the time this effect is just worse than another lord, right? And slivers already had 12 lords and phantasmal image.
I do not think it is necessarily worse; each sliver still deals one more damage you are just trading durability in combat with the ability to inflict damage whether or not they are blocked. It also gets around occasionally played cards like Energy Field. It certainly helps Modern Slivers but I think they are still going to be struggling to be anything more than a bad Zoo deck.

[Norm]

Full set spoiled, anything you guys like?

[iamajellydonut]

Full set spoiled, anything you guys like?

Reclamation Sage (http://www.mythicspoiler.com/m15/cards/reclamationsage.html) has shitty art for no apparent reason.

Voidsnare (http://www.mythicspoiler.com/m15/cards/voidsnare.html) and Profane Memento (http://www.mythicspoiler.com/m15/cards/profanememento.html) will both get played as shitty (or not so shitty) sideboard tech to one degree or another.

People will try to force shitty things with Spirit Bonds (http://www.mythicspoiler.com/m15/cards/spiritbonds.html), Life's Legacy (http://www.mythicspoiler.com/m15/cards/lifeslegacy.html), and Chief Engineer (http://www.mythicspoiler.com/m15/cards/chiefengineer.html).

I will be happy if Act on Impulse (http://www.mythicspoiler.com/m15/cards/actonimpulse.html), Polymorphist's Jest (http://www.mythicspoiler.com/m15/cards/polymorphistsjest.html), Quickling (http://www.mythicspoiler.com/m15/cards/quickling.html), or Necromancer's Stockpile (http://www.mythicspoiler.com/m15/cards/necromancersstockpile.html) get used.

I continue to be confused by Lightning Strike's existence.

[thecrav]

That was very thorough, berliner. I don't think we need to record an M15 episode now!

[iamajellydonut]

Thanks.

In other news, I think I might actually give a go at using Quickling.

[Darkenslight]

Full set spoiled, anything you guys like?

Amused by the artifact-based hate in the set, but otherwise not very much. The Convoke indestructible might see play in Modern, but only reprints for Legacy.

[Norm]

Thanks.

In other news, I think I might actually give a go at using Quickling.

I actually like this card quite a bit.

[Bobmans]

Reclamation Sage (http://www.mythicspoiler.com/m15/cards/reclamationsage.html) has shitty art for no apparent reason.

There will be a game day version of this card.

[iamajellydonut]

There will be a game day version of this card.

Indeed. The promo's not that bad, but I'm still holding both up to the standard set by Viridian Shaman.

[Dice_Box]

Indeed. The promo's not that bad, but I'm still holding both up to the standard set by Viridian Shaman.

No matter how bad the art, I can promise you that some artist locally will fix it for me. I love people with more talent than myself sometimes.

[Bobmans]

I love people with more talent than myself sometimes.

:laugh:

Will Quickling enable a real UB Faerie Stompy list? (offcourse there is faerie impostor without the flash and 1 mana less).

[Norm]

:laugh:

Will Quickling enable a real UB Faerie Stompy list? (offcourse there is faerie impostor without the flash and 1 mana less).

Having 1 toughness makes impostor much worse as well. Consider the situations where your opponent attacks with his grim lavamancer or deathrite shaman in the early turns and you snipe a kill with your flash homeboy.

[Megadeus]

Really hoping no one plays the quick silver faerie. The first time someone saves their delver with it from an STP I'm going to punch myself in the dick

[Bobmans]

Really hoping no one plays the quick silver faerie. The first time someone saves their delver with it from an STP I'm going to punch myself in the dick

Bouncing Vendilion Clique and Spellstutter sprite was more the line of play i was thinking about. Along with some kind of combination with bitterblossom, Glen Elendra Archmage, sower of temptation and perhaps some other useful faeries.

[Lemnear]

Really hoping no one plays the quick silver faerie. The first time someone saves their delver with it from an STP I'm going to punch myself in the dick

At least that would be a tempo swing in your favor. I would care more for SFM and SCM

[Megadeus]

At least that would be a tempo swing in your favor. I would care more for SFM and SCM

Kinda. They stop my removal spell and trade their 3/2 for a 2/2. Turns STP into gain 1 life discard a card.

[landwalker000]

Is this possibly the first core set to not have a merfolk of some kind printed. I know it doesn't matter much to the greater legacy community, but it did seem kind of odd.

[bakofried]

They just got TNN, master of the pearl Trident, and tidebinder mage. I think they're fine.

[FTW]

Lol @ watered down Jace

+1: pseudo-fateseal self only
+0, U, discard a card from your hand named "Brainstorm": Brainstorm
-3: Jace's -1 most of the time
-8: draw a lot of cards and shuffle opponent's hand into library, except don't exile whole library

[Darkenslight]

Lol @ watered down Jace

+1: pseudo-fateseal self only
+0, U, discard a card from your hand named "Brainstorm": Brainstorm
-3: Jace's -1 most of the time
-8: draw a lot of cards and shuffle opponent's hand into library, except don't exile whole library

I think it might be playable for the Ultimate, but not in Legacy. Because a Timetwister that makes your opponent mulligan to zero seems a little good. Admittedly, it's not Jace, the Wallet-Fucker, but then, nothing is, really.

[Megadeus]

Since when did we start judging walkers based on their ultimate?

[Zombie]

Since when did we start judging walkers based on their ultimate?

Well it's relevant for Garruk 1.0 and Tezz 2.0, no?

[Megadeus]

Yeah they ultimate the turn after they come down. Not like 4 turns of activating a bad plus one ability

[thecrav]

Is this possibly the first core set to not have a merfolk of some kind printed. I know it doesn't matter much to the greater legacy community, but it did seem kind of odd.

Eight and ninth also did not have any Merfolk.

While finding that, I also learned that a total of 18 different Merfolk have been printed in core sets.