[EDH] Karador, Ghost Chieftain

[Davran]

I've been brewing this deck for a long time now, and finally got around to acquiring the rest of the cards that I needed to put it together for real. To make a long story short, I've been wanting to build a deck to accompany my "casual" Mistform Ultimus list that was much more "competitive". Some of the stuff in this deck is still a little sub-par, but I'll definitely be trying to improve this as time goes on. Any suggestions are definitely welcome.

Commander:
Karador, Ghost Chieftain

Creatures:
Dryad Arbor
Birds of Paradise
Viscera Seer
Blood Artist
Qasali Pridemage
Sakura-Tribe Elder
Scavenging Ooze
Viridian Emissary
Big Game Hunter
Eternal Witness
Farhaven Elf
Fleshbag Marauder
Necrotic Sliver
Nyx Weaver
Reclamation Sage
Dimir House Guard
Disciple of Bolas
Oracle of Mul Daya
Solemn Simulacrum
Acidic Slime
Golgari Grave-Troll
Karmic Guide
Reveillark
Shadowborn Demon
Champion of Stray Souls
Kokusho, the Evening Star
Mikaeus, the Unhallowed
Sun Titan
Triskelion
Avenger of Zendikar
Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
Rune-Scarred Demon
Woodfall Primus

Instants:
Vampiric Tutor
Abrupt Decay
Grisly Salvage
Beast Within
Chord of Calling
Krosan Grip

Sorcery:
Green Sun's Zenith
Demonic Tutor
Farseek
Regrowth
Buried Alive
Cultivate
Kodama's Reach
Maelstrom Pulse
Victimize
Tooth and Nail

Artifacts:
Sensei's Divining Top
Skullclamp
Sol Ring
Ashnod's Altar
Oblivion Stone
Birthing Pod

Enchantments:
Animate Dead
Sylvan Library
Pernicious Deed
Phyrexian Arena
Grave Pact
Greater Good
Dictate of Erebos

Lands:
City of Brass
Command Tower
Evolving Wilds
Fetid Heath
4 Forest
Gavony Township
Godless Shrine
Grasslands
Homeward Path
Isolated Chapel
Llanowar Wastes
Marsh Flats
Murmuring Bosk
Overgrown Tomb
2 Plains
Strip Mine
Sunpetal Grove
4 Swamp
Temple Garden
Temple of Plenty
Temple of Silence
Temple of the False God
Terramorphic Expanse
Twilight Mire
Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
Vault of the Archangel
Verdant Catacombs
Volrath's Stronghold
Woodland Cemetery
Yavimaya Hollow


Playing the deck is relatively obvious. Cast and sacrifice creatures for fun and profit, then cast Karador and take over the game. The deck is designed around Brithing Pod. Most creatures net you some sort of trigger that can be abused again and again with Karador and the other recursion options in the deck.

Mikaeus, the Unhallowed and Triskelion go "infinite" to end the table if you're at that point. If you're unfamiliar with the combo, the idea is to remove counters from Triskelion to do 2 damage to an opponent and 1 damage to the Triskelion itself. When it dies, it will have undying and return to play with an extra counter. From there, you can do 3 damage to an opponent and 1 to the Triskelion until everyone else is dead.

Mikaeus, the Unhallowed also interacts favorably with Woodfall Primus and Kokusho, the Evening Star to end the game provided you also have a sacrifice outlet in play.

Wishlist:
Windswept Heath
Survival of the Fittest
Temple of Malady
Krosan Verge
Diabolic Intent
Vindicate
Living Death

Maybeboard:
Ashen Rider
Gray Merchant of Asphodel
Nim Deathmantle
Lord of Extinction
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Fauna Shaman
Dread Return

[Amon Amarth]

Gonna need 100% more Champion of Stray Souls

[Davran]

Gonna need 100% more Champion of Stray Souls

That guy actually seems like it could be a powerhouse in here. Any thoughts on a weak link?

I'm also relatively excited about this spoiler from Conspiracy:

Deathreap Ritual 2BG

Enchantment

Morbid - At the beginning of each end step, if a creature died this turn, you may draw a card.

[Amon Amarth]

That guy actually seems like it could be a powerhouse in here. Any thoughts on a weak link?

I'm also relatively excited about this spoiler from Conspiracy:

Deathreap Ritual 2BG

Enchantment

Morbid - At the beginning of each end step, if a creature died this turn, you may draw a card.

Hm. Not really. The deck looks pretty dang solid as-is. I've never been huge on the transmute guys so maybe House Guard?

That enchantment seems pretty sweet too.

Looks like High Market would be pretty sweet in here. What about Living Death? Vindicate?

[Davran]

Hm. Not really. The deck looks pretty dang solid as-is. I've never been huge on the transmute guys so maybe House Guard?

That enchantment seems pretty sweet too.

Looks like High Market would be pretty sweet in here. What about Living Death? Vindicate?

House Guard is mostly there as a sacrifice outlet with legs that also happens to find Birthing Pod if need be...but it is probably the weakest link.

I need to pick up a High Market for sure. Living Death is probably a good call too, and Vindicate is in line behind Windswept Heath and Survival of the Fittest for "big money" purchases. I'm hoping to pick up Pernicious Deed at some point too.

The deck has been loads of fun so far. Now I just need to tune it.

[Davran]

I've been playing quite a bit with this list and it's been all kinds of fun. That said, I've been thinking about making a couple changes:

Defense of the Heart is a strong magic card, but the people I typically play with are too good at magic (if that makes any sense) for it to actually do anything. It mostly acts as "each opponent may not control more than 2 creatures" while causing everyone to attack me, or it just rots in my hand while I wait for someone to build up a big enough board presence. I definitely want to live the dream of casting it into a full board and just winning on my next upkeep, but a lot of things need to go right for that to actually happen. I was able to trade some bulk for a Champion of Stray Souls, so I'm going to give that a shot over Defense of the Heart.

The other thing I seem to be struggling with is having access to enough utility out of my graveyard for Karador to mess around with. The obvious solution is to add some number of cards with Dredge to the list, but I'm not sure how open to Rest in Peace and other hosers I really want to be...so I think I'll start small.

Puppeteer Clique is a fine card and I'm happy with it, but I think Golgari Grave-troll will ultimately be better in its place.

Fierce Empath is semi-redundant with all of the other tutor power in the deck, and with the addition of dredgers is somewhat superfluous...so I'll use its slot for Stinkweed Imp

In summary:

Out:
Defense of the Heart
Puppeteer Clique
Fierce Empath

In:
Champion of Stray Souls
Golgari Grave-Troll
Stinkweed Imp

Here's hoping that the reprint of Pernicious Deed in Conspiracy lands some in trade binders...I'd love to fit one in the list (probably over Oblation or Krosan Grip).

[Davran]

Drafted conspiracy last week and was passed back to back Unexpected Potential and Pernicious Deed, which was pretty great for my draft deck. I had grabbed the Potential for an early Brimstone Volley that turned out to not match my colors, but the Deed was easily better. Long story short, I own a Deed now...so:

- Krosan Grip, + Pernicious Deed

This deck continues to perform excellently. I've stumbled on lands, been wrathed right before a critical turn, had my graveyard exiled...you name it, and I still hit that turn where I feel like I can't lose. The addition of the Dredgers has been a bit of a mixed blessing. On one hand, they help to get things going. On the other, I find it can be difficult to get them back into the graveyard when I start to use them. I think the deck needs something like Survival of the Fittest and/or Fauna Shaman to really supercharge the dredge plan, but I'm still not sure I want to go all in on that line. More testing will tell if it's really needed or not I guess.

[Davran]

Now that we have the whole set spoiled I figured I'd do a quick M15 review:

Ob Nixilis, Unshackled is one of those cards that I'm sure someone is super excited about, but I'm really not. I'm mostly hoping that no one in my playgroup decides to play it since this deck searches its library quite a bit. Pass.

Reclamation Sage is strong and will probably substitute in for Harmonic Sliver as it has 2 power instead of 1, is still Skullclampable, and is theoretically easier to cast. There's also those weird situations where you give someone's sliver deck an early Aura Shards...but those are so few and far between that it's hardly a selection criteria. I may also keep the Sliver in and swap out Fiend Hunter for the Sage as Fiend Hunter has been somewhat lack-luster most of the time.

Garruk, Apex Predator is interesting, but the only mode that's really relevant here is his -3 ability as the deck doesn't have much use for beast tokens and there are easier ways to kill planeswalkers.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

Reclamation Sage is strong and will probably substitute in for Harmonic Sliver as it has 2 power instead of 1, is still Skullclampable, and is theoretically easier to cast.

Also, it is a may trigger, which may matter in case you need to chump wihout killing the sole enchantment in play, your own Library/Abundance/w-e.
Definitely an upgrade to sliver, and I like that it's non-white, we may use it in our monogreen piles. :wink:

[Davran]

Also, it is a may trigger, which may matter in case you need to chump wihout killing the sole enchantment in play, your own Library/Abundance/w-e.
Definitely an upgrade to sliver, and I like that it's non-white, we may use it in our monogreen piles. :wink:

Oh man, I totally missed the "may" in there. Yeah, this will be replacing the sliver for sure.

It will definitely wind up in any mono-green pile I build too. I always thought it was weird that Viridian Shaman (and by extension Viridian Corrupter) couldn't hit enchantments...although I do like the idea of Corrupter as a shatter with "wither" stapled on to it (more or less).

[Bed Decks Palyer]

Oh man, I totally missed the "may" in there. Yeah, this will be replacing the sliver for sure.

It will definitely wind up in any mono-green pile I build too. I always thought it was weird that Viridian Shaman (and by extension Viridian Corrupter) couldn't hit enchantments...although I do like the idea of Corrupter as a shatter with "wither" stapled on to it (more or less).

For some reason I guess the Viridian Shatterers seems quite flavourful, you know "lets smash this unnatural weapon, while keeping the aura of our forest intact", etc/we. Also, I kinda like when the creature-spells and spell-creatures got at least some limit, like "we can't hit everything" or "the trigger ain't optional". It makes the cards much more interesting (though less powerful, ofc), because they're much more situational. Compare Maelstorm Pulse with Vindicate. While I'm not even sure which one of them is more powerful - I guess the pricetag says it's Vindicate - I really think there's no question which one is more interesting; Pulse.

Back to topic: I think new Garruk is weak. I costs far too much for his effects.

[Davran]

For some reason I guess the Viridian Shatterers seems quite flavourful, you know "lets smash this unnatural weapon, while keeping the aura of our forest intact", etc/we. Also, I kinda like when the creature-spells and spell-creatures got at least some limit, like "we can't hit everything" or "the trigger ain't optional". It makes the cards much more interesting (though less powerful, ofc), because they're much more situational. Compare Maelstorm Pulse with Vindicate. While I'm not even sure which one of them is more powerful - I guess the pricetag says it's Vindicate - I really think there's no question which one is more interesting; Pulse.

Back to topic: I think new Garruk is weak. I costs far too much for his effects.

Vindicate wins because it hits permanents, not nonland permanents. The "everything with the same name" clause on Pulse does make it more interesting and more useful in EDH (in my opinion anyway), but ultimately I think Vindicate is the better card for constructed assuming you could reasonably run both.

As for Garruk - I think he's fine as a curve-topper if you're playing BG Rock/Stax or something. You're trading 7 mana for 3 reasonable abilities, and his ultimate is a nice way to close out a game if you can get there. He's certainly more interesting than Vraska in that sort of deck. In a "competitive" deck like this one that's looking to wring value out of every card in the list he's definitely not all that great. To be honest, I don't think there are really any planeswalkers I would want to run in this kind of deck - I have plenty of better and more impactful things to be doing.

[Davran]

This deck continues to perform very well, and has become the deck people ask me to play when they want to roll out their own "busted" decks. I've made a couple of quick tweaks to the list:

- Oblation, + Krosan Grip

Oblation is nice for the ability to tuck something, but I'm too afraid of Rest in Peace and it's ilk to only have one "uncounterable" answer. Besides, I don't have a foil Oblation and my Grip is foil...so yeah.

- Stinkweed Imp, + Nyx Weaver

I'm not sure why I overlooked Nyx Weaver at first. Milling two cards a turn with no additional investment is nice, and the ability to randomly get something back if I need it is a nice bonus. Plus, the body isn't terrible.

- Harmonic Sliver, + Reclamation Sage

Nothing to see here. An upgrade in every sense of the word.

- Academy Rector, + Shadowborn Demon

Academy Rector is nice and all...but there's not really all that much to grab in this deck. I'm going to try out the Demon as a self-sacrificing, easily recurrable piece of removal.

- Fiend Hunter, + Grisly Salvage

Fiend Hunter is fine...but it's not great, especially in a format full of Wraths. I don't really have any way to mess around with blinking it to permanently remove something, and with so few sacrifice outlets that rarely comes up either. I'm hoping that Grisly Salvage will help to fill my yard faster with toys for Karador.

[Amon Amarth]

I jam Weaver and Salvage in my graveyard heavy decks and they're awesome. Also agree with the K. Grip change. Typically, I think it's better. Usually. I love the flexibility of Oblation but Grip is unique, probably mandatory in some metas, and I love those kind of effects in my decks. Sometimes 100 cards isn't enough. T_T

[Davran]

I jam Weaver and Salvage in my graveyard heavy decks and they're awesome. Also agree with the K. Grip change. Typically, I think it's better. Usually. I love the flexibility of Oblation but Grip is unique, probably mandatory in some metas, and I love those kind of effects in my decks. Sometimes 100 cards isn't enough. T_T

I'm happy with Weaver so far with the exception of the one game where I couldn't find any creatures to mill off, but that's a variance thing and not a slight against the card in any way. I've even gone as far as tutoring it up early, which worked quite well. Salvage has been good too, though I haven't drawn it as often.

You're definitely right about 100 cards not being enough. I currently have no idea what to cut if we get some sweet tech out of Khans...but I guess we'll see.

Anyone have any thoughts on a better sacrifice outlet than Dimir House Guard? I've never used its transmute ability, and I rarely if ever want to see it. What I do find myself lacking is a useful sacrifice outlet to get around Man-o-War type effects and/or exiling removal. I would obviously prefer if it were a creature for the synergy with Pod and Karador...but the right call might just be Altar of Dementia or something.

[Dia_Bot]

Dimir House Guard[/cards]? I've never used its transmute ability, and I rarely if ever want to see it. What I do find myself lacking is a useful sacrifice outlet to get around Man-o-War type effects and/or exiling removal. I would obviously prefer if it were a creature for the synergy with Pod and Karador...but the right call might just be Altar of Dementia or something.
Have you tried Carrion Feeder? I know multiplayer EDH is a different breed from (French) 1 vs 1, but in my french karador EDH he's a total house.
Basicly it's very easy to get him to infinite proporations (f.i. reveillark or Karmic guide + saffi ericsdotter, karmic guide + reveillark or sun titan + saffi ericsdotter) and it only cost one mana.

[Davran]

Have you tried Carrion Feeder? I know multiplayer EDH is a different breed from (French) 1 vs 1, but in my french karador EDH he's a total house.
Basicly it's very easy to get him to infinite proporations (f.i. reveillark or Karmic guide + saffi ericsdotter, karmic guide + reveillark or sun titan + saffi ericsdotter) and it only cost one mana.

Carrion Feeder is a good suggestion actually. I don't know why I always forget about that card. I'm not sure how relevant the interaction with the Reveillark loop will be since I rarely find myself attacking in the early/mid game, but it's nice to have it as an option. I'll definitely give it a shot.

[xterminans]

What about Phyrexian Altar?

I found it to be better than Ashnod's Altar, because it generates colored mana, which - for me- outweighs the fact that it only produces one mana instead of two.
I had a couple of situations where Phyrexian Altar was pretty useful in generating colored mana, where Ashnod's Altar whouldn't have done the job.

[Davran]

What about Phyrexian Altar?

I found it to be better than Ashnod's Altar, because it generates colored mana, which - for me- outweighs the fact that it only produces one mana instead of two.
I had a couple of situations where Phyrexian Altar was pretty useful in generating colored mana, where Ashnod's Altar whouldn't have done the job.

I can think of a couple situations where colored vs. colorless mana was relevant, but Altar is mostly here to prevent tuck and/or exile effects rather than to provide some sort of ramp or mana fixing.

That said, I actually put this deck down a little while ago - my playgroup was getting tired of seeing it, and winning with Mike + Trike all the time was getting more than a little stale for me. Maybe some day I'll resurrect it without the combo or something, as Karador is a pretty solid general.

[TsumiBand]

Is this a 1v1 list? I note a strong lack of world-go-booms; no Wrath no Damnation, just O-Stone and kind of Elesh. In just about any list I've played it in, Merciless Eviction has been really solid.

[Davran]

Is this a 1v1 list? I note a strong lack of world-go-booms; no Wrath no Damnation, just O-Stone and kind of Elesh. In just about any list I've played it in, Merciless Eviction has been really solid.

Nah, it was a multiplayer list. It could probably use a Wrath of some kind. I had debated using Magister of Worth since it's a Wrath that interacts well with Karador, but Merciless Eviction and/or Austere Command are probably the "right" calls? There's also False Prophet I guess...but the exile is kind of rough on what this deck wants to do.

If/when I put the deck back together I'd probably make a few changes to it for sure.

[Dia_Bot]

If you put back the deck you should consider Academy rector + Pattern of rebirth. In my old list this was one of the best combos in the deck with the many sacrifice engines.

[GoldenCid]

Nah, it was a multiplayer list. It could probably use a Wrath of some kind. I had debated using Magister of Worth since it's a Wrath that interacts well with Karador, but Merciless Eviction and/or Austere Command are probably the "right" calls? There's also False Prophet I guess...but the exile is kind of rough on what this deck wants to do.

If/when I put the deck back together I'd probably make a few changes to it for sure.

The thing with prophet is that you exile your stuff too. This is not synergic with karador cause you cant retrieve the creatures anymore. Maybe if you want a "wrath guy" magister or Massacre Wurm. Maybe Sunblast Angel could serve the propose too.