Bug In modern

[PhilM]

Why dont we see bug in the format? I feel like it has some of the strongest cards in the format, with the perfect fetch land mana base. Great creatures goyf, dark confidant, good removal abrupt decay, and counters such as mana leak. Does this make a deck strong enough to contest in the format? The fnm that i go to has a very competitive modern group, here is the list that i came up with. Let me know what you guys think of this list.

4x dark confidant
4x tarmogoyf
4x delver of secrets
2x snap caster mage
2x kitchen finks

4x Inquisition of kozilek
4x mana leak
2x spell pierce
3x abrupt decay
1x doom blade
1x slaughter pact
1x shadow of doubt
2x disfigure
1x maelstorm pulse
2x liliana of the veil
1x bile blight

4x verdant catacombs
3x misty rainforest
2x overgrown tombs
1x watery grave
1x breeding pool
2x swamps
2x forest
1x island
4x creeping tar pit
1x hinterland harbor
1x woodland cemetery

[Tormod]

Because doing 5 damage to yourself with a turn 1 fetch, shock, thought seize is really bad in a format where bolt is played in 50% of the decks.

Simply the mana doesnt work, even when Deathrite the deck took on average 6-8 points or self inflicted damage.

And the reason you need thoughtseize is because it hits splinter twin, pod, scapeshift, ad nauseum....

[PhilM]

Turn 1 thought seize in those colors is merely 3 damage at most, no need to hit yourself for 5 damage. plus taking out the splinter twin with thought seize is a bad play especially if your running abrubt decay. Utilizing kozilek for the creatures is a much better play and removal is better than thoughtsieze vs twin. As for scapeshift delver is a good enough clock against that deck and obviously having sideboard duress is very good against combo decks.

[Lord Seth]

Because doing 5 damage to yourself with a turn 1 fetch, shock, thought seize is really bad in a format where bolt is played in 50% of the decks.

Simply the mana doesnt work, even when Deathrite the deck took on average 6-8 points or self inflicted damage.

And the reason you need thoughtseize is because it hits splinter twin, pod, scapeshift, ad nauseum....The problem is that everything you just said applies just as much to Jund, and Jund is a great deck in Modern. In fact, Jund actually has a slightly worse mana base because it lacks the allied fetchlands.

The real reason you don't see much BUG is that in Modern, Red offers a lot more to a BG deck than Blue does, so if you want to go BG you're better off with Jund than BUG.

[PhilM]

I see your point, i run jund and just wanted to see how taking the core bg deck and add counters plays over bolt. Im just looking to see what new innovations can be done in a rapidly changing format. I shall run this see how it plays out.

[Megadeus]

With DRS I was going to try out a BUG delver tempo deck in modern with snapcasters and bolts and such... Not sure it is worth it without DRS though. Looks like you are going more mid range however than tempo.

[Phoenix Ignition]

I think it more comes down to what do you really need in blue? Countermagic means you have to leave open mana instead of playing your threats. You're going to run the BG creature base that pretty much specializes in being mid-early game finishers. The only real benefit I see is in an aggressive Delver, but I really don't like that card in modern. Bolt, abrupt decay, or pyroclasm are found in like 90% of decks being played, and it's a terrible top deck.

Red gives you better removal options in lightning bolt, since it also goes to the face or a planeswalker when you need it to.

[Tormod]

I remember now what I really didn't like about BUG in modern.

The removal was just horrible.

Dismember works, but at such a big cost if you reveal it on a bob and the alt life cost.
Abrupt Decay is "good" but can be embarrassing when the games go late and it's all about the manlands
Disfigure is very narrow
Smother was actually pretty good at doing an imitation of Abrupt Decay with the benefits of hitting manlands.

[YamiJoey]

I play BG Rock and I much prefer it to Jund. Maybe splashing some Snapcaster Mages wouldn't be so bad.

I don't like Mana Leak, though. Liliana is too good to play Counterspells with, and you want to be dropping Creatures and things a very high proportion of the time rather than holding it up. I may be interested in Remand.

[AggroControl]

If you're going to try to play BUG in Modern the U should mostly be cantrips. That's what U brings to the table for the most part, consistency.

So BUG Delver would be:

4 Delver of Secrets
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Dark Confidant
2 Vendilion Clique

4 Serum Visions
4 Sleight of Hand

4 Thoughtseize
2 Inquisition of Kozilek

4 Abrupt Decay
4 Mana Leak
2 Deprive

3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Garruk Wildspeaker

1 Sword of Fire and Ice

4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Watery Grave
2 Breeding Pool
1 Overgrown Tomb
2 Twilight Mire
1 Forest
2 Island
1 Swamp

Light on land and thick on business like a U-based cantrip list should be. Can switch back and forth between aggro and control depending on the circumstances. Has good finishers in the form of Goyf, Liliana, Garruk and the Sword. Mana Leak and Deprive aren't for early game disruption, that's what the discard is for. The counters are for midgame disruption to stop bombs from landing that invalidate the tempo the list has developed by that point.

[Tormod]

Counterspell not modern Legal

[AggroControl]

Counterspell not modern Legal

Ack! Well then 2 Cancel, although that becomes an iffy choice with Remand and Spell Pierce also available. Have to have a hard counter somewhere in the list though.

Edit: Deprive or Dissolve would be better choices. Think I will go with Deprive at the moment.

[Lord Seth]

Drop Sleight of Hand. In anything but combo decks, the card is highly unimpressive, and even some of the combo decks (Splinter Twin most notably) have been dropping it. And unlike Serum Visions, it does nothing to help you transform your Delver.

If you're looking for counterspells to use in the later game, why aren't you running Cryptic Command? I know the UUU in the mana cost is a bit tricky, but the sheer power of that card is tough to deny.

[AggroControl]

Drop Sleight of Hand. In anything but combo decks, the card is highly unimpressive, and even some of the combo decks (Splinter Twin most notably) have been dropping it. And unlike Serum Visions, it does nothing to help you transform your Delver.

If you're looking for counterspells to use in the later game, why aren't you running Cryptic Command? I know the UUU in the mana cost is a bit tricky, but the sheer power of that card is tough to deny.

The list needs 8 cantrips playable on turn 1 that also help on turn 4. Is there a better cantrip that I am missing that accomplishes that aim? Portent seems to be better on turn 1 but worse on turn 4. I'm not sure anything else at 1cc is in the realm.

Cryptic Command costs 4 and it doesn't win you the game. In this list you only want to tapout on something that will win you the game if it sticks, which Garruk will often do.

The point of the list is to be able to aggro quickly or control in the midgame and Cryptic Command is more of a pure control card. That it's still not usuable on the opponent's turn 4 when you were on the draw makes it very iffy in the overall scheme.

Edit: and of course Portent is not Modern legal. So that further limits the cantrips available. Isn't Sleight of Hand #2 in that category?

[YamiJoey]

You don't even know what cards are legal in the format, and you're trying to explain what a deck needs. Seems legit.

I came up with two directions to take this deck:

__________________________

BUG Vial

Permanents: 21
4 Aether Vial
4 Scavengin Ooze
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Eternal Witness
2 Tombstalker (Very cuttable. Might consider Pack Rat here.)

Spells: 15
4 Thought Scour
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Remand
1 Dismember
2 Thirst for Knowledge
2 Cryptic Command

Lands: 24
2 Island
1 Swamp
2 Forest
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Marsh Flats
3 Watery Grave
2 Breeding Pool
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Flooded Grove
2 Creeping Tar Pit

__________________________

On the Rocks

Permanents: 16
4 Dark Confidant
4 Scavenging Ooze
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Tarmogoyf

Spells: 20
3 Slaughter Pact
4 Serum Visions
4 Thoughtseize
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Mana Leak
3 Remand
1 Putrefy

Lands: 24
1 Island
2 Swamp
1 Forest
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Creeping Tar Pit
3 Darkslick Shores
2 Watery Grave
2 Breeding Pool
2 Overgrown Tomb

__________________________

Lands on the second are just mana and Tar Pits, which could be drastically improved. Currently not sure what this deck does that other BG decks don't, but it could be just as strong with the added factor of people not playing around your cards correctly, especially if you show no Blue sources in the first two or three turns and then get them with a Remand or something.

The first is more a variant of the Eternal Command deck that was popularised by Finkle and Kibler when the format was fresh. Vial, Witness, and Command is quite a combo.

[Mr. Safety]

Isn't Gifts Ungiven just a completely more powerful avenue? Jund, junk, and gb rock are all better midrange decks. Playing tempo without super cheap counterspells is really hard. The closest thing we have in modern is ur delver, and that is tier 2.

[Jo11ygrnreefer]

The reason why we don't see BUG in modern is because of the banning of Ponder. This deck lacks speed and consistency.

[MirrorMask]

How about now with treasure cruise and grisly salvage? Is the deck viable with them?

[jroharo]

How about now with treasure cruise and grisly salvage? Is the deck viable with them?

I've been having a decent amount of success with this list:
http://decks.deckedbuilder.com/d/12401

I'm 4-2-1 excluding byes. I'm currently missing 2 goyf's though (using 2 SCM instead), and that has definitely been a negative factor.

[Megadeus]

I'll probably try a similar list out at some point because deaths shadow is an awesome awesome card

[jroharo]

Yeah Death's Shadow is a baller. He can win games on his own out of nowhere. Also isn't countered by Spell Snare which is nice, and can't be killed by slaughter pact or bolt (usually).

Let me know how your testing goes.

[YamiJoey]

If all goes well, you'll be losing ~8 life by Turn 3. That gives you Death's Shadow + Remand mana. Death's Shadow can then grow on the untap. If you go to 10 life, you have a 1-mana 3/3. If you go to less, you lose to every Snap-Bolt deck in the format.

[jroharo]

If all goes well, you'll be losing ~8 life by Turn 3. That gives you Death's Shadow + Remand mana. Death's Shadow can then grow on the untap. If you go to 10 life, you have a 1-mana 3/3. If you go to less, you lose to every Snap-Bolt deck in the format.

You don't suicide against snap/bolt decks. Like I said previously, understanding when & how far to suicide is by far the most difficult part of playing the deck.

[Megadeus]

If all goes well, you'll be losing ~8 life by Turn 3. That gives you Death's Shadow + Remand mana. Death's Shadow can then grow on the untap. If you go to 10 life, you have a 1-mana 3/3. If you go to less, you lose to every Snap-Bolt deck in the format.
That's my problem with the card in modern. The premier removal spell can kill you quickly if you aren't careful since seemingly every other deck is on 4x bolt

[jroharo]

It's honestly a lot easier to play around than you would think. Also bear in mind that Shadow is typically your "late game" dude. Delver/Goyf are your early threats.

[YamiJoey]

So just cast a Tombstalker.

[jroharo]

Vapor Snag is an awful card to see after you cast a Tombstalker. I used to run Tombstalkers but cut them with the release of Treasure Cruise.