[IDEA] Demon Tempo

[jamis]

The Core
4 Phyrexian Obliterator
4 Desecration Demon
4 Master of the Feast
4 Dark Ritual
4 Lotus Petal

The idea being to play an evasive 5/5 as soon as possible, then ride it to victory. Obliterator is the threat of choice. Master of the Feast's 3 CMC is a blessing and a curse -- 3 CMC is much easier to get out on turn 1, but it now opens you to Abrupt Decay. Still, against anything not BGx, a quick Master could be a real issue for them, and you'll at least force the BGx decks to have the Abrupt Decay.

With the core out of the way, and considering the deck will likely be playing about 16 swamp, that leaves about 24 slots to work with.

Idea 1: Griselbrand
1 Griselbrand
4 Entomb
0-4 Reanimate
0-4 Exhume

The ability to do something broken may improve match-ups where the demon plan is less impressive. The Reanimation effects aren't completely dead outside of this plan, either, as you're usually happy to pay 4 life to get back a demon that has been answered.

Idea 2: disruption
0-4 Snuff Out
0-4 Sinkhole
0-4 Wasteland
0-4 Thoughtseize
0-4 Hymn to Tourach
0-4 Cabal Therapy
0-4 Liliana of the Veil

I'm much more a fan of Sinkhole here than Hymn. Hymn + Master of the Feast seems like backpedaling, but if the idea is to play an early demon and win while its still more impressive than anything the opponent can do, then Sinkhole seems awesome at keeping them in the first few turns of the game. Even with Master of the Feast, I still like Thoughtseize as it can take their early turn plays or a StP. Cabal Therapy could be nice if playing Entomb, but I'd probably leave it out otherwise. Snuff Out should be the removal of choice for this deck, I think. Some number of Liliana will probably make the cut.

Idea 3: More threats
Tarmogoyf
Plague Sliver
Juzam Djinn
Tombstalker
Dark Confidant

Plague Sliver/Juzam Djinn can increase the number of 5/5s for 4, but the lack of evasion I'd feel would really be an issue. Tombstalker, I'm a bit worried won't come down fast enough to mesh well with this deck. Splashing Green for Goyf is always an idea, and may possibly be the next best threat if more threats are needed. I'd be cautious of playing Tombstalker or Goyf if also going the Griselbrand route since now their sideboard grave hate answers 2 of the decks attack routes. With all the card disadvantage built into this deck, Bob also has merit as a way to bring yourself back into the game should it go longer than expected.

With all that said, I think the initial list I'd play is

4 Phyrexian Obliterator
4 Desecration Demon
4 Master of the Feast
4 Dark Confidant

4 Liliana of the Veil

4 Snuff Out
4 Sinkhole
4 Thoughtseize

4 Dark Ritual
4 Lotus Petal

4 Wasteland
16 Swamp

[theillest]

The 4 Dark Confidant seem like they'd hurt with:
4 Phyrexian Obliterator
4 Desecration Demon
4 Master of the Feast
4 Liliana of the Veil
4 Snuff Out

[Ziveeman]

Is a Stompy like shell worth it? Chalice of the Void/Trinisphere would invalidate a large amount of cards drawn by Master of the Feast. Obviously, Ancient Tomb/City doesn't help with the BB or BBBB casting costs, but playing with Urborg would mitigate that.

Could be something like

Creatures - 16
4 Demonic Taskmaster
4 Desecration Demon
4 Master of the Feast
4 Phyrexian Obliterator

Spells - 22
4 Chrome Mox
4 Dark Ritual
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere
4 Snuff Out
3 Sinkhole

Lands - 22
10 Swamp
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
1 Tomb of Urami

[Koby]

Sooo... Pack Rat anyone?

[Mystical_Jackass]

Let me just give you my 2-cents, 'cause I played two different versions of Demon Stompy a while back with mixed results, but it was against a strong meta:

Trial #1: Any attempt to creature agro, I'm sorry but you're just dead in the water. Why? When I tried going Desecration Demon, Persecutor, Shriekmaw, etc. stompy shell route, they will ALWAYS have easy ways of dealing with any threat, it's so easy and then you're screwed when it dies. ie. They drop in a Jace, Liliana of the Veil, drop a Baleful Strix and just sit idle, or they just straight up counter it--top decks these days have so many ways of getting around 1 fatty, and it's basically a 2-for-1, sometimes even 3-for-1 for them, you'll be stuck with one card in your hand to their 5 many games.


Trial #2: My second time through, I went for "strictly business" cards that create CA by themselves, ie. Sorin, Lord of Innistrad, Bitterblossom, and Liliana of the Veil. I did dramatically better (3-1) that tourney, TRUST ME on this one this is the route you want to take, not the "Juzam Djinn and swing" route. You basically want to drop a Chalice/3sphere, then follow up with one of the wincon's above asap, and many times you can just ride that to victory. One card that I ran that's surprisingly good is Unmask, like I said you're all-in, there's really no going back but most of the time if you land an opening like I mentioned above you can ride that to victory.

[jamis]

theillest, I think you're right about Bob. Maybe if the deck needs that effect, Phyrexian Arena might be a plan, but I'm going to try to forgoe that for now.

I also tried Demon Stompy a long time back, and my poor experiences probably led to me shying away from going that route. This was before Desecration demon was printed, though, I think. I know I was playing stuff like Fleshbag Marauder, so now maybe now that there's much better demons, it's time to play around with that idea again. I'll have to give Ziveeman's list a try. I'd also like to try phylactery lich.

Either way, if going the stompy route or the other route, Pack Rat does seem sweet. There's a lot of dead draws in both lists, and that seems like the perfect way to convert that back into something useful. I'm going to play around with all this, and see what I come up with.

[Olaf Forkbeard]

Is Lake of the Dead too weak to Wasteland to run? Or is it possibly too slow? I feel like it could give this deck much needed consistency. To be clear I am theorizing based off of a casual deck (http://www.essentialmagic.com/decks/View.asp?ID=1002216) I once put together, but maybe it has some application here.

Thoughts on that list (http://www.essentialmagic.com/decks/View.asp?ID=1002216)? Am I way off base?

[Mystical_Jackass]

theillest, I think you're right about Bob. Maybe if the deck needs that effect, Phyrexian Arena might be a plan, but I'm going to try to forgoe that for now.

The deck can't afford card draw like Phyrexian Arena, unless it's built into the wincons (Graveborn Muse, etc.). This deck loses a lot of life, usually from Ancient Tombs and/or Bitterblossom, its a necessary evil, but you really can't afford to grind it out with them in the long run, your first 3-4 turns you usually know if you're gonna win or lose many times.

And Lake of the Dead is just way too slow for a tempo deck.. maybe some sort of Control/Trainwreck build where you're powering out something on turn 5-6 to win, it just doesn't fit I dont know what else to say.

[BKclassic]

Chains of Mephistopheles and Master of Feast seems like a rightous combo.

[Mystical_Jackass]

Chains of Mephistopheles and Master of Feast seems like a rightous combo.

I don't think you want a 2-card synergy where they're situationally bad on their own. Lets say best case scenario, you ritual out a Master of Feasts then follow up with Chains, the opponent gonna have 9 cards to your 3, basically one StP or dismember or pretty much anything 'cause its 3cmc, and you lose the game. That's pretty bad.

[BKclassic]

I don't think you want a 2-card synergy where they're situationally bad on their own. Lets say best case scenario, you ritual out a Master of Feasts then follow up with Chains, the opponent gonna have 9 cards to your 3, basically one StP or dismember or pretty much anything 'cause its 3cmc, and you lose the game. That's pretty bad.


Unless I am missing something, the lists above are running Master of Feast with nothing to mitigate it's drawbacks. So Master of Feast is as good as it's going to be on its own. Chains can be good but I agree jamming 4 Chains of Mephistopheles in the MD probably isn't the way you want to go. But as long as the deck is running the Master, a few between the MD and SB seems it like would be good. Dark Confidant would also haves some synergy with chains.

[Mystical_Jackass]

Again, I don't mean to be a hater of Sui Black, but Sui Black will absolutely get destroyed in this meta DTB. The deck has no removal, and Master of Feast just seems horrible, even if you get him out turn 1 and get one free swing, second turn he'll have 9 cards and all it takes is a StP/Baleful Strix/Abrupt Decap/Dismember/edict/Smother/bounce/etc and its pretty much gg. The better decks these days all can easily deal with one creature at a time, that was one of the main points I was trying to stress, 'cause they're all also running Abrupt Decays, edicts, and dropping Liliana's as well. Only way you're have a chance is powerint out a 3sphere or something like that, then follow up with a Bitterblossom, Braids, Planeswalker or something that they simply have a hard time dealing with on an idividual basis.. something that generates CA by itself, sorta. Anyways, That's all I gotta say for this thread.

[Wilkin]

Sooo... Pack Rat anyone?

I think that's a card that would be considered.



4 Pack Rat
4 Fleshbag Marauder
4 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Shriekmaw
3 Bloodgift Demon
1 Bane of the Living

4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
2 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Chrome Mox
3 Bitterblossom
3 Diabolic Edict

4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
3 Wasteland
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
12 Swamp


Not sure if it would work. LOL, Shriekmaw is a pet card of mine I currently use. Most of the time, it's a 2 mana terror on Delver of Secrets but I have lived the dream and killed an Emrakul off of a Show and tell. Bloodgift Demon is probably way too ambitious.