RG Combo Lands [Archive]

Anen

06-09-2014, 06:25 AM

Discussion for the RG Combo Lands version with Gamble will go here.

First result of the deck was with Kurt Speiss who took 1st at SCG Baltimore.

4 Thespian's Stage
4 Rishadan Port
4 Maze of Ith
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
4 Wasteland
3 Tranquil Thicket
3 Wooded Foothills
2 Taiga
2 Dark Depths
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Windswept Heath
1 Karakas
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Forest

4 Punishing Fire
4 Gamble
4 Life from the Loam
3 Crop Rotation

4 Mox Diamond
4 Exploration
2 Manabond

//SIDEBOARD
1 Crop Rotation
2 Dark Depths
1 Chalice of the Void
4 Sphere of Resistance
2 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Primeval Titan
3 Krosan Grip
1 Bojuka Bog

If someone is interested in writing something more elaborate about the deck, feel free to do so :)

Barsoom

06-09-2014, 06:49 AM

Anen

06-09-2014, 06:54 AM

It's a nonsense imho to split the discussion (and why the new thread in developmental? the RG version got more top8 than the RUG version these days).

We should have one thread for all versions of Lands, expecially now that the RG version is, numbers in hand, the most succefully and played one (according to TCDecks data).

It is in developmental because I don't have the will to make an extensive primer about the RG version. If you have the will, you are more than welcomed to write the primer in the established section :)

RUG with Intuition and RG with Gamble have two distinct game plans, hence the two threads.

Fuzzy

06-15-2014, 09:00 AM

OK, fine, split the thread. But anyone had access to GerryT deck?

Tyrio

06-15-2014, 12:25 PM

His maindeck is probably stock, but iirc the commentators were talking about a bunch of one-ofs in his sideboard. The only one I saw was a Courser of Kruphix he Gamble'd for. Seems like a decent on-color Dark Confidant replacement; blocks well but I imagine if you were going to run her you'd run more than one?

Megadeus

06-15-2014, 12:40 PM

He had courser, Oracle of Mul Data, and a Prime Titan I know.

GerryT

06-17-2014, 12:29 AM

I played this at the Invi:

4 Exploration
4 Gamble
4 Mox Diamond
4 Life from the Loam
3 Punishing Fire
3 Crop Rotation
2 Manabond
4 Wasteland
4 Rishaden Port
4 Maze of Ith
3 Wooded Foothills
1 Forest
2 Taiga
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Tabernacle of Pendrell Vale
1 Glacial Chasm
4 Thespian's Stage
2 Dark Depths
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
3 Tranquil Thicket
1 Karakas
Sideboard
1 Courser of Kruphix
1 Oracle of Mul Daya
1 Primeval Titan
4 Sphere of Resistance
1 Crop Rotation
1 Chalice of the Void
1 Dark Depths
3 Krosan Grip
2 Pithing Needle

I changed the Manabonds to Oracles for the Open and cleaned up the sideboard.

P-E

06-18-2014, 01:26 AM

what was your finish Gerry ?

snurly

06-20-2014, 03:05 PM

Gerry, would love to know how the deck fared against various strategies, and if you found any cards, main or SB, to be under-performers?

I've been on this deck since Kurt won that Open with it near the start of the year, and here are a few cards I've been experimenting with or considering.

Mirri's Guile/Sylvan Library: Mostly to help find answers that can't be dredged (replacement exploration/manabond, KGrip, etc.).
Choke: Just love punishing blue decks.
Courser of Kruphix: Possibly against burn-heavy decks (UR Delver, Burn) and maybe buy some turns against Tendrils.
Primeval Titan: Out of the board when expecting RiP/Leyline.
Ghost Quarter: Strip Mine a lot of the time, or can ensure a Wasteland/Loam lock after only one or two activations. Also good as a fetchland for the 1 basic forest in response to a Blood Moon, Price of Progress or Back to Basics.

Chiptoon

07-18-2014, 06:52 AM

I played in a small local tournament and finished 3-1. It was my first time playing the R/G combo lands off of tappedout, and it was a blast. Gamble is a fun card...yeeeah...it's a really fun card.

1st round
Miracles

I keep two questionable hands and get abosultely pummeled for it. He had a Counterspell and Force the only time I was ever threatening with a Crop Rotation and Stage. Not a great start for me. 0-2

2nd round
U/R Delver Burn w/ SoFi

game 1: I make a quick Marit Lage to close out the game before he can play enough business spells.

game 2: He amasses a sizable army of two flipped delvers and two active lavamancers. I crop rotate for chasm to keep him at bay planning to stage it after one upkeep dropping me to 6 life. I land a courser which allowed me to get ahead on life even with chasm in play thanks to an exploration. Finish it off with Marit. He had five creatures on the board at one point, but punishing fire and grove eventually took out the insects to clear the air. 2-0

3rd round
Deadguy Ale w/ Deathrite

game 1: My opponent accidentally missed a Tabernacle trigger. I felt bad because it's an Italian copy, so it can be harder on my opponents. I make Marit and he doesn't have his lingering souls tokens because of Tabernacle. A punishing fire before his Deathrite could get online also saved my Loam.

game 2: Another quick Depths kill played through a Rest in Peace. I sideboared in Oracle and Helm because they get around a Rest in Peace, while also taking up only two spots for nice miser value. I never drew either card luckily his deck never got to get going in this game either. I really liked discarding Lingering Souls to Liliana for such awesome value. Also, he never landed a Bob in either game which was surprising. 2-0

4th round
Death & Taxes (all foil)

game 1: We grind for a bit with Wasteland and Port battles, but eventually he lands a Stoneforge. He follows it up with Batterskull and SoFi to close out the game fast.

game 2: I bring in Oracle, Helm, Depths, and two Grips. I get a nice start of Mox Diamond into Loam for my opener. My opponent gets a little land screwed and I manage to push a second Marit Lage through after a flickerwhisp.

game 3: My opponent mulls to 5 and starts with Plains, go. I get another Mox Diamond into Loam hand. On my next turn, I gamble for Helm with 6 cards in hand. I discard a land and now we're in business for a Rest in Peace. He keeps dropping threats in Jitte, Mangara, Mindcensor, and Crusader. Fortunately punishing fire with Grove keeps his threats off the board until Oracle + Loam accelerate me into a Depths kill. 2-1

I never got to play Helm, but I had an opportunity where it could have potentially won me the game. Gamble into Helm early in the game is a fun bet. If you land it, Helms stays tucked away until they play RiP. If you hit it...well the jig is up and that's why it's called Gamble, right? Courser pulled out a win for me through his lifegain against U/R Delver. I managed to gain about 6 life before he was eventually burned out. That 4 toughness makes it a tough card for red removal to hate out and hopefully white sideboards out some Swords.

Lt. Quattro

07-22-2014, 07:08 AM

Chiptoon

07-22-2014, 02:01 PM

The main deck was stock as I think that is still the best configuration. The two copies of Manabond may occasionally be one too many, but you need to have land acceleration in this deck early. I have also heard people say there may be one too many fetch however it's really important for this deck to have access to the lone copy of basic forest. It can be too weak to Blood Moon and opposing Wasteland strategies without access to green mana.. My sideboard was 3x Grip, 4x Sphere, 1x Depths, 1x Helm, 1x Rotation, 1x Courser, 1x Oracle, 1x Titan, 1x Bog, and 1x Chalice.

Lt. Quattro

07-22-2014, 02:47 PM

Rampart

07-22-2014, 03:04 PM

When you board in a creature do you only bring in one at most?

Do you gamble for them or just rip them?

You can side both in depending on the match up. When you side in the creatures you usually side out for the manabonds so the 2/2 swap is pretty natural. Courser is better for the lightning bolt decks and the Oracle is better against the abrupt decay decks. You can still side both in though as they are not dead draws. They are also good in a verity of other matches such a miracles, the mirror, etc that they are really good in too.

They are cards that I have gambled for but ripping them off the top is just awesome, it really just depends on the situation. I really only gamble for them is my loams have been extracted or the like.

Lt. Quattro

07-22-2014, 03:39 PM

You can side both in depending on the match up. When you side in the creatures you usually side out for the manabonds so the 2/2 swap is pretty natural. Courser is better for the lightning bolt decks and the Oracle is better against the abrupt decay decks. You can still side both in though as they are not dead draws. They are also good in a verity of other matches such a miracles, the mirror, etc that they are really good in too.

They are cards that I have gambled for but ripping them off the top is just awesome, it really just depends on the situation. I really only gamble for them is my loams have been extracted or the like.

I was wondering why you would ever want to side out manabond since it seemed amazing during my goldfishing. The lands primer says its to avoid graveyard hate. Is that because you can't rely on life from the loam recursion and you can let your creatures git her done?

Rampart

07-22-2014, 04:10 PM

I was wondering why you would ever want to side out manabond since it seemed amazing during my goldfishing. The lands primer says its to avoid graveyard hate. Is that because you can't rely on life from the loam recursion and you can let your creatures git her done?

Manabond is an all in card and you need to be more conservative in game two and three because of graveyard hate. Playing manabond after sideboard isn't awful per say but it does create opportunities to get blown out of a game with let's say a bomb effect or rip or an extraction effect on loam or a key piece leaving you with nothing in hand and no real way to get back into the game with the exception if a lucky top deck

Chiptoon

07-22-2014, 04:21 PM

I was wondering why you would ever want to side out manabond since it seemed amazing during my goldfishing. The lands primer says its to avoid graveyard hate. Is that because you can't rely on life from the loam recursion and you can let your creatures git her done?

While Manabond is an extremely potent weapon for Lands, it is not a very versatile card and relies on your ability to dredge Loam to keep your card advantage engine going. If you are expecting graveyard hate it makes sense to switch to a top of library plan instead as it takes away the pressure of having to Loam. I think the creatures are an excellent way to go as it makes the sideboard more versatile than previous builds. Our combo matchup is always going to be bad, so we might as well sure up some of the fair ones instead.

Rook1e

07-31-2014, 03:21 PM

Hi guys. I've been playing the following list for a couple of weeks:

Land (35)
1x Barbarian Ring
2x Dark Depths
1x Forest
1x Ghost Quarter
1x Glacial Chasm
4x Grove of the Burnwillows
1x Karakas
3x Maze of Ith
4x Rishadan Port
2x Taiga
1x The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
4x Thespian's Stage
3x Tranquil Thicket
1x Verdant Catacombs
4x Wasteland
1x Windswept Heath
1x Wooded Foothills

Instant (7)
3x Crop Rotation
4x Punishing Fire

Sorcery (8)
4x Gamble
4x Life from the Loam

Enchantment (6)
4x Exploration
2x Manabond

Artifact (4)
4x Mox Diamond

Sideboard (15)
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Crop Rotation
2x Dark Depths
1x Grafdigger's Cage
3x Krosan Grip
1x Primeval Titan
4x Sphere of Resistance
2x Thorn of Amethyst

I have been pretty satisfied with the list, but I wanted to hear any suggestions on how to improve the list. I'm not completely sold on Grafdigger's Cage (or Chalice, Helm and Needle) in that 'last' SB spot. Anyone who has some secret tech they want to share? :D

Lt. Quattro

09-02-2014, 11:33 PM

http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=72360

R/G combo lands made another top 8 appearance, I know I'll be copying the -1 Tranquil Thicket and +1 Horizon Canopy.

Think its about time we were let back into the lands thread?

lordofthepit

09-03-2014, 05:52 AM

gigapatrick

09-03-2014, 07:50 AM

Is there a way to reasonably squeeze some Dark Confidants, Thalias, or Phyrexian Revokers in the sideboard, as is common with RUG Lands, or is there another reason the R/G version shies away from the man plan post board?

Well, neither black nor white are dedicated colors in RG Lands, so Dark Confidant and Thalia don't really make sense. As far as Phyrexian Revoker is concerned, I'd think that Pithing Needle is just better since it doesn't die to Swords or Bolt.

On the topic of being let back into the RUG Lands thread: I'd rather have Kurt Spiess or someone else who has done well with the deck write a new primer. The RUG Lands primer has made it very clear they don't want RG Lands discussed there.

Rampart

09-03-2014, 08:13 AM

Is there a way to reasonably squeeze some Dark Confidants, Thalias, or Phyrexian Revokers in the sideboard, as is common with RUG Lands, or is there another reason the R/G version shies away from the man plan post board?

I think the first thing I would ask is why you would put them in the R/G deck?

Historically The Man Plan (TMP) is a sideboard tactic that basically de-emphasizes the graveyard after sideboard by allowing dude's to support non-loam based control strategies. Dark Confidant allows you to generate card advantage, Thalia works with the mana denial package, Revoker is extremely flexible and can stop hate, etc. There are other reasons that TMP is better in the control builds but it basically comes down to how the decks play out differently. The control shell tends to be a little slower but more flexible, wants to play a dude on turn 1 or 2 which in essences lowers there curve, attacks the opponent from a different angle and it allows you to turn the corner faster.

R/G is unique in the ability to side a full suite of the DD/Stage combo by eschewing TMP. I am not sure you can support a properly TMP and full DD/Stage suite and not hurt your other matchups after sideboard, or at least I haven't found a list that did that because the full suite is two cards in the board and TMP is at minimum 4. Also by focusing on the combo the R/G List now has options in how it choices to play out game post sideboard. There is the Loam Game and the Combo Game and the deck is constructed to support both which depending on your opening hand and what you are playing against you can end the game exceptionally quick (no corner to turn). This is in contrast with the control builds which still need to gain incremental advantage (still have a corner to turn) of TMP because they don’t have the full package. This isn’t to say that the control build can’t win quickly because it can but it is usually more manufactured in the assembly of the combo.

Which gets back to the first question, why would you want to run them? The only one I would probably consider currently is Revoker (which I like over the needle because it hits LED and Petal) and plays a lot like combo hate so you don’t need to run full playset or a combo of different dudes. But probably the little dudes are not needed because winning is just better then incremental advantage they provide in this build of lands.

If you want to explore TMP I would cut the 4 fetch or 3 Taiga (depending on your build) to add a bayou for Bob or Savannah for Thalia's or Canonist.

*Edited to articulate my point better

lordofthepit

09-03-2014, 03:32 PM

I think the first thing I would ask is why you would put them in the R/G deck?

I agree that it's probably weaker in this deck than in something like Secret Garden, since your opponents are incentivized to keep in Swords to Plowshares due to the combo-focus of the R/G version.

I find that I personally shave Manabonds to go to a full-set of Dark Depths post-board, in order to dodge gravehate by just becoming a more combo-oriented deck. However, occasionally something like a Pithing Needle (from a deck where you can't justify keeping in Punishing Fire or bringing in Krosan Grip, such as Reanimator) absolutely wrecks you, since it is literally your only kill condition other than Punishing Fire. I know you have the ability to play around Needle with Thespian Stage if you get it out in advance, but I wonder if another angle of attack wouldn't be worthwhile: my guess is no, but has anyone actually tested this?

ESG

09-03-2014, 04:30 PM

The Man Plan (TMP)

Ugh. Totally unnecessary invented acronym. There's also no reason to capitalize this like it's some brand that you're marketing.

People can feel free to bring in creatures if they believe the opponent will be siding out his or her removal, assuming they have the slots open to board in creatures. You're right that the Stage-Depths combo occupies a similar role. My view is that if people are boarding into a combo plan, then all copies of Manabond should stay in the deck. If the opponent has answers to Marit Lage and the graveyard, then it's either an unwinnable matchup or it's winnable through a third angle of attack.

My biggest gripe with the accepted lists of this deck is that the deck runs too few real mana sources, making most hands without a Mox Diamond dicey. I can't fathom cutting fetches for creatures unless you're running more fetches than usual or topdeck like a champion.

Rampart

09-03-2014, 11:55 PM

I agree that it's probably weaker in this deck than in something like Secret Garden, since your opponents are incentivized to keep in Swords to Plowshares due to the combo-focus of the R/G version.

I find that I personally shave Manabonds to go to a full-set of Dark Depths post-board, in order to dodge gravehate by just becoming a more combo-oriented deck. However, occasionally something like a Pithing Needle (from a deck where you can't justify keeping in Punishing Fire or bringing in Krosan Grip, such as Reanimator) absolutely wrecks you, since it is literally your only kill condition other than Punishing Fire. I know you have the ability to play around Needle with Thespian Stage if you get it out in advance, but I wonder if another angle of attack wouldn't be worthwhile: my guess is no, but has anyone actually tested this?

Yeah, people have tested with it. Kurt has placed with bobs, thalia, and canonists in his side before he settled on just R/G. Gerry T was running a Orcale/Courser split in his build of the list. If you don't want the dudes you can always hedge and put a raging ravine in the side which is something I do frequently. You can always manual down the DD too, I have done that a couple times. There is always a way to tweek in a deck to your liking but you can't avoid everything werid situation that pops up.

Ugh. Totally unnecessary invented acronym. There's also no reason to capitalize this like it's some brand that you're marketing.

People can feel free to bring in creatures if they believe the opponent will be siding out his or her removal, assuming they have the slots open to board in creatures. You're right that the Stage-Depths combo occupies a similar role. My view is that if people are boarding into a combo plan, then all copies of Manabond should stay in the deck. If the opponent has answers to Marit Lage and the graveyard, then it's either an unwinnable matchup or it's winnable through a third angle of attack.

My biggest gripe with the accepted lists of this deck is that the deck runs too few real mana sources, making most hands without a Mox Diamond dicey. I can't fathom cutting fetches for creatures unless you're running more fetches than usual or topdeck like a champion.

Thanks,

Manabond is a kind of a tricky card when it come to post board games as it can create some very oppressive wins and loses after board. I personally don't feel I need it in game two or three in most matchups and don't wan't to take the risk of getting blown out of a game as a result. I feel like I can out play or structure a gamestate most of the time to beat an opponent regardless of the hate they bring in. The only time I really feel like I am out of a game is where they stick three or four hate pieces on the board.

What do you define as a real mana source? I rarely have an issue the the two color manabase, sometimes I keep a hand that is missing green but usually I just copy my opponents green sources with stage to fix that. Also one of the biggest strengths of this version of lands is the fact it doesn't lean so hard on Mox Diamond like int he control shell.

Who is cutting fetches for creatures? The lists that I have seen are usually 4/3 split with fetches and lands sometimes you see a 3/4 split. My suggestion was to cut a 4 fetch for an additional splash dual or cut a 3rd taiga for an additional splash dual if the OP was interested in trying out the a man plan out of the board.

Chatto

09-04-2014, 03:58 AM

I originally posted this in the Dark Depths-thread, because I'm more into the speedy Depths/ Stage-combo, but think is more suited here:

http://www.twitch.tv/scglive/b/563278238?t=46h30m10s

Didn't know if you guys already had the link

ESG

09-04-2014, 05:28 AM

What do you define as a real mana source? I rarely have an issue the the two color manabase, sometimes I keep a hand that is missing green but usually I just copy my opponents green sources with stage to fix that. Also one of the biggest strengths of this version of lands is the fact it doesn't lean so hard on Mox Diamond like int he control shell.

Who is cutting fetches for creatures? The lists that I have seen are usually 4/3 split with fetches and lands sometimes you see a 3/4 split. My suggestion was to cut a 4 fetch for an additional splash dual or cut a 3rd taiga for an additional splash dual if the OP was interested in trying out the a man plan out of the board.

You wrote, "I would cut the 4 fetch or 3 Taiga," but now I see you meant the fourth fetch and not four of a card or three of a card. Still, I wouldn't cut any fetches at all, if it was me. I would cut a Bojuka Bog or a Karakas or even a Wasteland before I would cut a fetch.

A real mana source would be one that allows you to cast the spells you need to cast. Rishadan Port isn't a real mana source because it doesn't allow me to cast Exploration on Turn 1. Wasteland isn't a real mana source because it doesn't allow me to cast Punishing Fire. Dark Depths isn't a real mana source because it doesn't even tap for colorless mana. Thespian's Stage isn't a real mana source initially but can become one through its copy ability. Tranquil Thicket comes into play tapped, which makes it terrible if you need green mana right away. All Lands variants run lots of copies of lands that are embarrassing when you need to produce colored mana. The reason we run these lands is that they have powerful abilities, but I find the advice to "treat them like they're spells" to be insightful, because it helps show how greedy and ramshackle Lands manabases can be. Based on this logic, Kurt's list from last month runs 12 real mana sources (http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=14283&iddeck=105309), or 16 if you count Mox Diamonds. On many occasions, I have defeated Lands decks by countering or destroying Mox Diamond and Wastelanding them once, and that would not be possible if the manabase wasn't a weak link. (A similar thing happened to me many years ago in my first SCG Open, when I ran a Lands variant, so I've experienced both sides.) People can play as many or as few mana-producing lands as they want, but if you don't have colored mana, then you can't make a turbo Marit Lage.

My take on the turbo Depths plan comes down to:
1) How fast can you assemble the Stage-Depths combo postboard, on average?
2) Does the opponent have ways to disrupt this?
3) Does the opponent have ways to answer a Marit Lage?
4) Can the opponent race or ignore Marit Lage?
5) If Marit Lage is dispatched, is there time to try again, or are we dead?

Rampart

09-04-2014, 09:42 AM

You wrote, "I would cut the 4 fetch or 3 Taiga," but now I see you meant the fourth fetch and not four of a card or three of a card. Still, I wouldn't cut any fetches at all, if it was me. I would cut a Bojuka Bog or a Karakas or even a Wasteland before I would cut a fetch.

A real mana source would be one that allows you to cast the spells you need to cast. Rishadan Port isn't a real mana source because it doesn't allow me to cast Exploration on Turn 1. Wasteland isn't a real mana source because it doesn't allow me to cast Punishing Fire. Dark Depths isn't a real mana source because it doesn't even tap for colorless mana. Thespian's Stage isn't a real mana source initially but can become one through its copy ability. Tranquil Thicket comes into play tapped, which makes it terrible if you need green mana right away. All Lands variants run lots of copies of lands that are embarrassing when you need to produce colored mana. The reason we run these lands is that they have powerful abilities, but I find the advice to "treat them like they're spells" to be insightful, because it helps show how greedy and ramshackle Lands manabases can be. Based on this logic, Kurt's list from last month runs 12 real mana sources (http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=14283&iddeck=105309), or 16 if you count Mox Diamonds. On many occasions, I have defeated Lands decks by countering or destroying Mox Diamond and Wastelanding them once, and that would not be possible if the manabase wasn't a weak link. (A similar thing happened to me many years ago in my first SCG Open, when I ran a Lands variant, so I've experienced both sides.) People can play as many or as few mana-producing lands as they want, but if you don't have colored mana, then you can't make a turbo Marit Lage.

My take on the turbo Depths plan comes down to:
1) How fast can you assemble the Stage-Depths combo postboard, on average?
2) Does the opponent have ways to disrupt this?
3) Does the opponent have ways to answer a Marit Lage?
4) Can the opponent race or ignore Marit Lage?
5) If Marit Lage is dispatched, is there time to try again, or are we dead?

Sorry I missed that, that makes sense. I would cut the karakas before the bog or the wasteland. I don't like the fourth fetchland. I find that that I want the 3rd Taiga more. I have found in my experience that as the game progresses forward you fetch your lands out very quickly in general and I would rather have that extra land in my deck then a dead land later in the game. The 3rd Taiga also allows reasonable P-Fire wins etc. I don't think its wrong to have 4 fetches, its just not what I am interested in doing.

I can completely agree with most of what you are saying. Wasteland, Port, DD, Maze, Karakas, Bog, Tabby and Chasm are spells that sometimes provide colorless.

Ideal virtual/real manasources to me are:
3-4 fetches
3-4 Dual Lands/Forest
4 Grove of the Burnwillows

Bad real manasources are:
2-3 Tranquil Thicket
0-1 Horizan Canopy

Conditional manasource
4 Thespian Stage

That puts me in the 14 manasource plus Mox so equivalently 18. If your playing against a green deck stage can add another 4 virtual green producing lands to bring you up to 22. Now I understand those numbers are a bit of a stretch and understand that a bad manasource is very different then an ideal mana source.

Most manabases in legacy are awful. I mean lands primary plan is to waste and opponent out, Lands can't realistically do that if the manabases in legacy where better and with that being said I think almost every deck in legacy (there are a couple exceptions) can get blown out by a well timed wasteland. The question is weather your opponent can deduct the correct timing, know what land to hit and is willing to take the risk using a valuable resource to try and "get" the deck with life from the loam in it.

I also think Lage is a very powerful means to an end, you get free wins out of it but if you have had a chance to really watch or play this deck for a long period of time it usually plays out like a control deck with the token preforming clean up, or at least that's how I generate most of my wins. The only time this is not the case is when I straight up need to race game one against storm or Painter or the like. Don't get me wrong it allows for wins that you wouldn't normally get but first and foremost your a lands build. Also everything about going all in with the token it completely contextual based on the matchups, board state and the amount of cards in hand

Lt. Quattro

09-05-2014, 06:19 PM

here is the tournament report of the recent scg open top 8 placing list.

http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/legacy-type-1-5/established-legacy/control/535484-primer-lands?page=27#c675

Hey guys,

Here is my short report from the SCG Legacy Open in NJ where I finished fifth.

I picked up lands about a month ago (and read through this primer several times to help the preparation). I play tested it quite a bit at some local tournaments. Previously I had played a lot of RUG delver and jund so somewhat of a departure for me from my usual decks. I had borrowed lands from a friend for an open trial and quickly 4-0ed it. After that I was hooked.

Ok now moving on the the open:

Round 1 (Won 2-1): R/G lands (yes the mirror). John and I know each other from Xanadu in Baltimore and had played the mirror just the week before. Not exactly the match up I was hoping for round 1. Game 1 was really back and forth with me Bojuka bogging two of his loams and him doing the same to 2 of mine. From there he found gamble before I found gamble or a loam and he quickly got way ahead to win the game. Game 2 I won quickly on the back of a turn 1 chalice of the void on zero that locked out his only colored source in mox diamond. Game 3 I had a near perfect draw with exploration, wasteland and loam and quickly wastelanded him out.

Round 2 (Won 2-1): RUG delver. Pretty standard stuff. Tabernacle plus wasteland took a game and then wasteland/loam took the other. The game I lost I believe was due to 2 nimble mongeese but I don't totally remember.

Round 3 (Lost 0-2): Shardless Bant. Jarvis knew what I was on and has played against the deck extensively so this was tough. Game 1 I mulled to 3 after a series of really unkeepable hands that lacked proper mana. Quickly lost. Game 2 I saw a ton of graveyard hate. It was close but got killed.

Round 4 (Won 2-0): B/W Dead Guy Ale. Game 1 I had a strong hand with manabond and loam. My opponent said that manabond should be banned so clearly it outperformed. Game 2 I grinded him out with ports despite his huge number of basics and punishing fired all of his threats. Afterwards he showed me he had boarded in 4 RIP and 3 Extirpates (and drew none of them during our game!). Wow that is waaaay more than normal hate. Surprised he didn't mulligan to hate.

Round 5 (Won 2-1): Dredge. Game 1 I really punted my tapping out when his graveyard wasn't very threatening. He promptly went nuts with breakthrough and cabal therapied away my crop rotation (so I couldn't get bojuka bog). Really dumb. Games 2 and 3 were a little strange where he dredged incredibly poorly (included a breakthrough where he dredged 4 grave trolls and saw zero narcomebas or ichorids). I didn't draw great in either but was still able to get there. Definitely should have lost this one though.

Round 6 (Won 2-0): UR Delver. Game 1 he drew/fetched a lot of non-basics so I thought he was on UWR. Tabernacle/wasteland took out 3 delvers at once so that was quickly game. Game 2 I stabilized behind glacial chasm long enough to establish chalice on 1 and make a marit lage.

Round 7 (Won 2-0) Shardless BUG. This one was against Harry Corvese who played lands for a quite a while. Loam/wasteland got there in a pretty straightforward way both games.

Round 8 (Won 2-0) Deathblade. This was against a friend so we both knew what we were on. I honestly don't remember too much of this one. I know I wastelanded him out game 1 and made a relatively quick marit lage for the win game 2.

Round 9 (Won 2-1) UWR Delver. Game 1 tabernacle stole it with some nice wasteland action. Game 2 he drew a lot of threats and wastelanded my only colored source in grove. I slowed him down for a while with two maze of iths and glacial chasm. Missed a draw step by forgetting to pay for chasm (this was a lot of rounds) but was probably very dead at this point since I still lacked colored mana. Game 3 I got ahead and nearly wastelanded him out but he was able to stick a RIP that knocked out all 4 of my loams! (even though I had only dredged 3 or so times). At this point it was nearly time so I gambled for thespian's stage (to match the depths in play). He missed on getting the stage (25% chance of hitting) and I was able to take the match.

Round 10 (Won 2-0) Death and Taxes. I thought at 8-1 in such a relatively small 10 round tournament that I would be able to draw. Sadly when I saw the pairings not only could I not draw but I was paired against Shahar Shenhar (aka the World Champion). Not only is he amazingly good but we had played the week before at SCG DC so he even knew what I was on. Game 1 got a little dicey with me falling down to around 6 but I was able to stabilize with punishing fire and maze of ith to eventually take the game. Game 2 was shown on SCG Live as a feature match. I had a really strong hand with loam a few lands and 3 mox diamonds. I got the mana advantage early and established punishing fire to stabilize. Whew. Very stressful.

Top 8 (Lost 2-0) Imperial Painter :( : Game 1 he had turn 2 blood moon. I have no main deck outs. Game 2 I kept a hand that had crop rotation, thesp. stage, forest, grove, exploration, but no fourth land. It could make a turn 2 marit lage if only I had drawn a fourth untapped land. Instead bricked an he played a turn 2 (and turn 3) blood moon. I could gamble for krosan grip for one but not the other and quickly died.

Overall the list is very good. Wouldn't change a thing. Felt really strong all day and until the top eight felt favored in every matchup.

sarahiscute

09-05-2014, 07:13 PM

hi all,

have anyone thought of playing a B/G deck: its very fast. planning to put in abrupt decay, pernicious deed.

//lands (37)
1 Forest
1 Glacial Chasm
4 Maze of Ith
4 Rishadan Port
1 Cabal Pit
2 Bayou
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Thespian's Stage
1 Sejiri Steppe
4 Wasteland
1 Windswept Heath
2 Wooded Foothills
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Karakas
4 Dark Depths
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale

//spells (16)
4 Mox Diamond
4 Exploration
2 Manabond
3 Crop Rotation
2 Life from the Loam
1 Crucible of Worlds

//creature (8)
4 Dark Confidant
4 Vampire Hexmage

tota:61

//Sideboard
SB: 3 Pithing Needle
SB: 3 Defense Grid
SB: 2 Raven's Crime
SB: 1 Crop Rotation
SB: 3 Krosan Grip
SB: 1 Bojuka Bog
SB: 1 Tower of the Magistrate
SB: 1 Cabal Pit

Rivfader

09-09-2014, 02:05 PM

Based on this logic, Kurt's list from last month runs 12 real mana sources (http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=14283&iddeck=105309), or 16 if you count Mox Diamonds.

Thanks for posting the link to this deck. One thing especially caught my eye, being 4x manabond. KInda makes sense, it probably improves game 1 quite a bit. 62 cards though ... What do you guys think about that?

Rampart

09-09-2014, 02:38 PM

Thanks for posting the link to this deck. One thing especially caught my eye, being 4x manabond. KInda makes sense, it probably improves game 1 quite a bit. 62 cards though ... What do you guys think about that?

I think its a typo and that he had two

dafrk3in

09-11-2014, 02:41 PM

Does anyone playing the RG version have any insights on beating Sneak and Show (with Blood Moon in the sideboard) at a decent rate?

Dosferra

09-27-2014, 07:36 AM

So, I’ll be picking this deck as soon as I acquire the last few cards, a natural step as Loam Pox and 4-Color Loam (using Stage+Depths in both) have been my favorite decks so far.

Anyhow, I was wondering, how does the Miracles matchup usually play out? Pre-board and post-board, what’s the game plan?
I understand that the RUGx version of Lands is the controller in this matchup, but the RG version doesn’t have access to EE, Smokestack, Worm Harvest or GQ (maindeck anyway) and Miracles has Karakas, Swords, Terminus w/ top and chump block with Clique+bounce with Jace so that’s a pretty tall order for Marit to get through.
I know, from own experience, that you can grind them out by just loaming back the combo and remake Marit until they have exhausted their relevant answers, but if they have CB+Top or RiP..?

P.S. Have you noticed that Combo Lands is currently 6th placed on MTGO ( http://www.mtggoldfish.com/metagame/legacy ) and it’s only 3 pilots that have repeatedly placed with it, which makes it even more impressive.

Chiptoon

09-30-2014, 08:04 PM

I like that decklist although I think the third Depths is more of a meta call. Bojuka Bog and Ghost Quarter both fit nicely into that slot as well. As for the Miracles matchup, preboard you just have to go for it while doing your best to Port them efficiently. You really have to feel out whether keeping them off white or double blue is the right play for the situation.

Post board gets very interesting as there are many different lines you can take dependent on how you construct your list. I keep a Helm of Obedience in my sideboard as an early Gamble target for the Miracles and D&T matchups. Some number of Krosan Grip, Pithing Needle, and Sphere / Thorn can also be good. Chalice of the Void is very strong on the play as well because shutting down Top is a huge blow to Miracles. I'm still experimenting with Courser of Kruphix, Oracle of Mul Daya, and Primeval Titan in my board as well.

apple713

09-30-2014, 08:30 PM

please do not make another thread about this deck. It has been covered in depth in one of the many other forums.

Rivfader

10-01-2014, 08:23 AM

please do not make another thread about this deck. It has been covered in depth in one of the many other forums.

This thread was separated from the RUGx forum, which was a decision that provoked some discussion. As you are probably unaware of this, you should read the first 2 pages of the RUGx thread and the 2 pages of this thread to understand the context.
This thread is about the RG lands variant, and not Turbo Depths, which I presume you are referring to with 'many other forums'.

apple713

10-01-2014, 02:07 PM

This thread was separated from the RUGx forum, which was a decision that provoked some discussion. As you are probably unaware of this, you should read the first 2 pages of the RUGx thread and the 2 pages of this thread to understand the context.
This thread is about the RG lands variant, and not Turbo Depths, which I presume you are referring to with 'many other forums'.

although it's rg variant, its not so different from the typical lands list that it should be excluded. when 90% of the cards are the same its safe to say they are the same deck. Even widely established decks like show and tell have like 8-12 variable slots....

this deck has even been mentioned in other threads that i've read which were lands threads. this is an old list or variant on an old list from about a year ago.

Rivfader

10-02-2014, 01:42 AM

although it's rg variant, its not so different from the typical lands list that it should be excluded. when 90% of the cards are the same its safe to say they are the same deck. Even widely established decks like show and tell have like 8-12 variable slots....

this deck has even been mentioned in other threads that i've read which were lands threads. this is an old list or variant on an old list from about a year ago.
This separate thread has been the initiative of the RUGxmods and not of an RG player, as you'll read in the first 2-3 pages of RUGx lands. So your statement (which I agree with) should be made there.

gigapatrick

10-13-2014, 06:50 PM

Hello all. I've posted a tournament report. Enjoy.

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?28679-RG-Lands-1-Epic-Loot

Rivfader

10-15-2014, 04:52 PM

Hello all. I've posted a tournament report. Enjoy.

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?28679-RG-Lands-1-Epic-Loot

Hi, just read your post here as well and wanted to add something about manabond. In short, I wouldn't cut it, because most games i've won were on the back of exploration/manabond with loam. And although manabonds are often cut game 2, I think they add a lot in winning game one.
Also later in the game, if you're behind without exploration/manabond and dredging to find solutions (while also cycling thicket), the best card you can draw into (or gamble into) is probably manabond, since it can get you entirely back in the game with all the loamed back lands in hand. In the semifinals of SCG Baltimore that Kurt Spiess won, he was totally losing against a (bug I think) delver deck. At the last possible moment he topdecks a manabond, and from a loosing position he is suddenly in an inadvertible winning position, in a single turn, by putting his entire hand on the table and having access to a new token each turn.

I usually side manabonds out as well, but lately I'm thinking this might be wrong and that at least one should remain in the deck postboard, against certain matchups.

EDIT: thanks for the report, by the way!

Rampart

10-16-2014, 01:26 AM

Hi, just read your post here as well and wanted to add something about manabond. In short, I wouldn't cut it, because most games i've won were on the back of exploration/manabond with loam. And although manabonds are often cut game 2, I think they add a lot in winning game one.
Also later in the game, if you're behind without exploration/manabond and dredging to find solutions (while also cycling thicket), the best card you can draw into (or gamble into) is probably manabond, since it can get you entirely back in the game with all the loamed back lands in hand. In the semifinals of SCG Baltimore that Kurt Spiess won, he was totally losing against a (bug I think) delver deck. At the last possible moment he topdecks a manabond, and from a loosing position he is suddenly in an inadvertible winning position, in a single turn, by putting his entire hand on the table and having access to a new token each turn.

I usually side manabonds out as well, but lately I'm thinking this might be wrong and that at least one should remain in the deck postboard, against certain matchups.

I happen to love manabond as a card personally because it allows for so many free wins and closes games much faster then Exploration which I find to be useful. I think from a historical standpoint it gets sideout against a lot of fair decks because they usually have a way to interact with your graveyard after sideboard. Typically players don't want to get blown out of a game like that after board. This is coupled with the fact that the US meta is saturated with fair decks for the most part which really de-emphasis the usefulness of manabond.

and with all that being said I think you should keep them in. manabond adds some real redundancy with this verision of the lands deck unlike the control shell. Also with the ablility to side up to 4 DD in your maindeck you have a real chance of making a turn one token after board against the unfair decks which is relevant. Some fair decks also can't really interact with manabond very well either which matters

Rivfader

10-16-2014, 04:31 AM

manabond adds some real redundancy with this verision of the lands deck unlike the control shell. Also with the ablility to side up to 4 DD in your maindeck you have a real chance of making a turn one token after board against the unfair decks which is relevant.

Manabond and 4 pieces of both DD and are very strong, but this configuration hardly sees play because manabond goes out and 2x depths goes in. Which makes me wonder, how 4 copies of DD would do in the maindeck, along with manabond. I only see one reason not to to this, having to cut two maindeck cards. Which - on a first glance - could be Bojuka Bog and Karakas. I my meta I rarely face combomatchups where they are really relevant. It probably comes down to a comparison, how much does a full package of 4 maindeck DD, along with manabond, increase your wins? And how much worse would the matchups become in which Karakas and Bog are really relevant (considering that our own wincon becomes a bit faster as well with two extra DD)?

gigapatrick

10-16-2014, 09:56 AM

In the semifinals of SCG Baltimore that Kurt Spiess won, he was totally losing against a (bug I think) delver deck. At the last possible moment he topdecks a manabond, and from a loosing position he is suddenly in an inadvertible winning position, in a single turn, by putting his entire hand on the table and having access to a new token each turn.

I usually side manabonds out as well, but lately I'm thinking this might be wrong and that at least one should remain in the deck postboard, against certain matchups.

EDIT: thanks for the report, by the way!

Yeah, man, I saw that video. It was definitely awesome to see Spiess steal that game with Manabond. I've got mixed feelings about it though, as I'd like for RG to have a maindeck answer to noncreature permanents like Inution Lands does--but maybe the best answer is just making a Marit Lage as soon as possible.

Rivfader

10-18-2014, 10:21 AM

Yeah, man, I saw that video. It was definitely awesome to see Spiess steal that game with Manabond. I've got mixed feelings about it though, as I'd like for RG to have a maindeck answer to noncreature permanents like Inution Lands does--but maybe the best answer is just making a Marit Lage as soon as possible.

The problem will be having access to both of them, without Tolaria West or Intuition (gambling or croprotating for them seems clunky). But perhaps it would be possible to splash some blue, for 1 Academy Ruins, 2 Tropical Island, 2 Tolaria West and 1 Engineered explosives. Minus 2 thickets, 2 depths (and playing Karakas an Bojuka Bog in the sideboard), a punishing fire and a Taiga, it just might work.

Rampart

10-18-2014, 11:05 AM

Rivfader

10-18-2014, 08:06 PM

What's the point. If you want the flexibility that the control shell offers then start with that and slant it to a more combo centric game plan.

The reason that I play RG is because of the two color manabase and how smooth it is in comparison to the control manabase which can be awkward.

With all respect for your reasons, but the suggestions aren't awkward manawise at all. It basically trading (only inclucing green lands) taiga/thicket/thicket for trop/trop/offcolorland. THat's one less greenland, but on the upside it's one more greenland that comes into play untapped.
If there's an issue, it would be trading mainboard Karakas/Bog flex and postboard combocentrism (in 2 extra dark depths) for this package.

Anyway, it's just a suggestion and not worth an unfruitful discussion through several posts, so lets leave it.

Rampart

10-20-2014, 07:23 AM

With all respect for your reasons, but the suggestions aren't awkward manawise at all. It basically trading (only inclucing green lands) taiga/thicket/thicket for trop/trop/offcolorland. THat's one less greenland, but on the upside it's one more greenland that comes into play untapped.
If there's an issue, it would be trading mainboard Karakas/Bog flex and postboard combocentrism (in 2 extra dark depths) for this package.

Anyway, it's just a suggestion and not worth an unfruitful discussion through several posts, so lets leave it.

I don't think your suggestion is bad at all. I wouldn't say that as it is something that I have tried several times to work out myself. I think the problem that I have with it is that there's not enough core blue mana sources to support T.West consistently. So basically you have 4 Moxs and 2 Tropicals, and some number of fetchlands but they don't actually activate transmute or T.Stages which can copy an island I guess, anyway out of those six cards you need two of them turn on t.west which is going to make it hard to consistently transmute early in the game where EE really has the biggest impact. I would also try to run 2 EE's to increase you chances of drawing them.

Thats why I made the suggestion to the blue lands manabase. it is because it is constructed to properly support the mana constraints of a double blue spell like T.west. After that you can really start heavily slanting the deck back towards the more R/G focused build but you don't really have to sacrifice some of the land tutor targets

Rivfader

10-20-2014, 03:38 PM

I don't think your suggestion is bad at all. I wouldn't say that as it is something that I have tried several times to work out myself. I think the problem that I have with it is that there's not enough core blue mana sources to support T.West consistently. So basically you have 4 Moxs and 2 Tropicals, and some number of fetchlands but they don't actually activate transmute or T.Stages which can copy an island I guess, anyway out of those six cards you need two of them turn on t.west which is going to make it hard to consistently transmute early in the game where EE really has the biggest impact. I would also try to run 2 EE's to increase you chances of drawing them.

Thats why I made the suggestion to the blue lands manabase. it is because it is constructed to properly support the mana constraints of a double blue spell like T.west. After that you can really start heavily slanting the deck back towards the more R/G focused build but you don't really have to sacrifice some of the land tutor targets

Ok I thought you were talking about the green manabase. I have little experience with the RUGx version, but are you sure the manabase couldn't support this? When I look at RUGx manabase I usually see 3 trops, 3 fetch and 2 Twest (that's only slightly different from 2 trops, 4 fetch and 2 TWest). But you probably tested this already? If I can borrow two tropical islands, I might this myself.

I played a 28 people tournament this weekend, going 3-1-1 and ending 9th (which is quite a frustrating place to end up). The draw was against Titan Post, which I found a hard match to play against. Won the first one through a quick wastelock, but game 2 he needled my wastelands, and with crop rotation, Karakas and repeal I couldn't get through. He finally saved up enough mana to cast two Eldrazi a turn, beating my Karakas, and killing me after playing almost 45 minutes on game 2. Game three evidently went to time.
Ghost Quarter would have helped here evidently, but are there any other suggestions for this matchup? In retrospect, it doesn't seem favorable.

Rampart

10-20-2014, 04:19 PM

Noooooo, there is a better green mana support in the RG version then the control by miles. The manabase in the blue version always felt stretched to me and i think it barely support Twest properly. To me it was always about hitting that double blue on time for the matchups you need it in and having a low/small chance to get double blue on turn two I think hurts.

About post - the mono green version is worse to play against then the U/G but it is just an awkward matchup. I define this matchup by two factors

1. Wastelock - keep pithing needle off the board using grip and waste or ghost quarter.
2. COTV - is a utter house against them as it keeps them off pretty much everything.

snorlaxcom

10-20-2014, 05:29 PM

here is the tournament report of the recent scg open top 8 placing list.

http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/legacy-type-1-5/established-legacy/control/535484-primer-lands?page=27#c675

Happy for his strong placing! Some events prior to this he came to the scg venue in the middle of Saturday. He forgot to bring a deck for the Legacy trial and he asked to borrow my RUG Lands for the first time. I was okay about lending it to him because I have tested against his many delver, jund, and pox builds. He knew the general idea of the deck and Intuition's power could make up for a less than ideal pile. My only concern was how he could manage the clock. After smashing the field he was hooked, but preferred the RG version because that was more his play style. He did read through through the RUG thread, but much of the information was useless for multiple reasons(managing a third color, intuition pile, when is it safe to cast Intuition, keepable hands, sb, etc.). Since he was on RG I was unable to give him the best advice in later tournaments we played in because I was accustomed to having more utility and stablizing before jamming dd.

The thread was losing focus on the RUG build and asking separate questions of RG scenarios. For example, in certain matchups RUG has ee to handle gy interaction and can more effectively play with a chalice for 1 on the field and has a completely different style vs Miracles. RG lacks these core tools and it was apparent people were asking questions for 2 different decks. It is crucial to realize this for the benefit of both strategies. Having a focused thread only strengthens the strategy when discussing RUG, RG, or Jund Depths that were often thrown around on the RUG thread.

I would like to highlight this splitting of threads similar to ichorid's variations.

I'd rather have Kurt Spiess or someone else who has done well with the deck write a new primer.

Me, too.

When talking to Kurt on multiple occasions this year he didn't have anything to add to the blue Lands strategies that he himself played for years, but I don't hold that against him. He moved on last summer and maybe that is his preferred play style. He has not expressed any interest in maintaining a thread or making a deck primer by himself. I think if some Sources were to construct a primer they could forward it to Kurt for his opinion and that may add credibility to the OP. Seeing the deck play on camera and links could be added to show that the deck is indeed not the same as lists with blue.

gigapatrick

10-20-2014, 09:40 PM

When you say of Kurt Spiess,

He moved on last summer and maybe that is his preferred play style.

do you mean to say that he's dropped Lands entirely, has gone back to RUG Lands, or neither?

In any case, the idea of someone writing a primer and getting his nod of approval sounds like a good one.

snorlaxcom

10-21-2014, 07:33 AM

Meant that he's moved off of the blue. He did shy away from RG in last year's gp and played a different deck entirely (Miracles I think), but aside from that just RG version.

Rivfader

10-22-2014, 04:22 AM

Rampart

10-22-2014, 08:58 AM

Dosferra

10-22-2014, 06:40 PM

I have a hard time beating Miracles, and would like an answer in the sideboard without diluting fast combo matchups. So far, I have come up with Null Rod. It disables Top, and shuts down artifact mana (the drawback however is mox diamond becoming useless). Has anyone ever tested the card?

I'm in exactly the same spot. Been using 2xPithing Needle in that slot, the one for Miracles that is. It has the plus side that it can come in against a wide variety of other decks as well. Except against Storm.. which is why I've also been considering Null Rod. While Phyrexian Revoker could also fill that slot, I don't think it'd really cut it against Miracles, as they usually keep most, if not all, of their Swords and Terminus for G2 and G3 because of Marit.

Another great sideboard card for the Miracle matchup, which I'm even considering moving main deck, is Ghost Quarter.
I'd bet Worm Harvest would be a beating for them, but sadly the graveyard is compromised a great deal post-board.

If just talking about tactics, I feel that games where I have as much mana disruption as possible are the games where I'm favored to win.
In my mind, the ideal hand against them would be something like Exploration, Loam, Port, Ghost Quarter, Wasteland, fetch, x, each slot interchangeable with Gamble and/or Crop Rotation. Probably a Mox, one more Port or a hate card as the seventh card.
It would be interesting to hear if others have reached different conclusions.

Rivfader

10-23-2014, 02:35 AM

My thoughts on null rod are the following: I think that the use of Mox Diamond is more important, if i was looking for an effect like that i would probably use Pithining Needle, and if you feel that the use of shutting down artifact mana is more important i would use Revoker.

I'm in exactly the same spot. Been using 2xPithing Needle in that slot, the one for Miracles that is. It has the plus side that it can come in against a wide variety of other decks as well. Except against Storm.. which is why I've also been considering Null Rod. While Phyrexian Revoker could also fill that slot, I don't think it'd really cut it against Miracles, as they usually keep most, if not all, of their Swords and Terminus for G2 and G3 because of Marit.

Another great sideboard card for the Miracle matchup, which I'm even considering moving main deck, is Ghost Quarter.
I'd bet Worm Harvest would be a beating for them, but sadly the graveyard is compromised a great deal post-board.

If just talking about tactics, I feel that games where I have as much mana disruption as possible are the games where I'm favored to win.
In my mind, the ideal hand against them would be something like Exploration, Loam, Port, Ghost Quarter, Wasteland, fetch, x, each slot interchangeable with Gamble and/or Crop Rotation. Probably a Mox, one more Port or a hate card as the seventh card.
It would be interesting to hear if others have reached different conclusions.

Thanks for the suggestions. Concerning the sideboard, I seem to be hesitating between 3 scenario's. Differences are always in the same 7-8 slots dedicated to combo / Miracles (as the other 7 slots seem set, 4x Krosan Grip, 2 Depths and 1 Bog/Maze/Karakas... depending how the main was configured). I have been constantly shifting between these scenario's, they all have pro's and con's.

1) 1x chalice + 6x spheres
The configuration of Kurt Spiess. A prisonstrategy with lots of synergy with wastelock and port, especially strong against storm, along with a fast comboplan. Less strong against Miracles I think.
2) 4x spheres + 4x chalice
Maximising on the two strongest effects. Unfortunately chalice shuts down some of our own cards, in particular crop rotation, watering down the comboplan and tutoring for silver bullets. But a chalice on one can be solved by dredging and casting loam each turn.
3) Diverse hate
A combination of the above with some other strong hate, but cutting slots on spheres and chalices for these cards.
Pithing needle, Null Rod, Ghostquarter, Choke, ... come to mind. So lots of versatility, but less overall synergy (especially compared to the first scenario).

Which configuration would be the best overall strategy versus combo and Miracles? Which sideboards are you guys playing?

gigapatrick

10-23-2014, 09:40 AM

Which configuration would be the best overall strategy versus combo and Miracles? Which sideboards are you guys playing?

As I mentioned in my tournament report, I'm on the four Sphere, four Chalice sideboard plan, and I have mixed feelings about it. Originally, I wanted to go with four Chalice because it has applications outside of Combo (though it is awesome against Combo), including against Miracles and Delver decks. However, having tested it against Miracles, Chalice can be swingy. It can be awesome if you get it out soon and have Loam online--because then you don't need to cast Gamble (I generally board out Crop Rote). If, however, you have it out but don't have any action going, it's likely to hurt you just as much as them. Now, Chalice is a little bit of a different story against Combo, since if you get it out early you're likely messing with your opponent so much that it doesn't matter if you can't cast Gamble or Crop Rote. And as far as the Delver matchup goes--I'm not even sure you should board in Chalice, since that matchup is pretty good already. So I don't know. I'll continue testing, but I might drop down to three or maybe two Chalices for a second Dark Depths in the board and something else.

Chiptoon

10-23-2014, 11:15 PM

Rivfader

10-24-2014, 05:07 AM

Honestly, I don't think Chalice is nearly as strong in the R/G variant of Lands. Chalice for 1 makes a ton of sense in the RUG build as it only blanks the Crop Rotations from most lists. I find that I only really want Chalice if I can get it first turn on the play against Miracles, on zero against Storm, or maybe on 1 against Burn or this new U/R Delver build. It's a very powerful effect but it can also be very detrimental to us. I could see it as maybe a preemptive strike against extration effects, but even then it will probably eat an Abrupt Decay. I prefer Pithing Needle for the versatility and I'm still experimenting with having more silver bullet style cards in the board.

It is stronger than you think, on the condition you have loam available, as Gigapatrick points out. You can sit behind a chalice on one and loam each turn, porting and wasting and meanwhile assembling combopieces, circumventing drawing into 1cc spells, while your opponent is stuck on a handfull of cantrips.
That being said, I also don't see myself playing chalice versus aggrodecks, only in combomatchups with lots of 0 and 1drops and Miracles.

Loxmatii

10-27-2014, 09:58 AM

gigapatrick

10-27-2014, 07:07 PM

yesterday Nikolas Leaf made third place at ssg. his list: http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=75185 congratulations!

so. i try to play this type of lands too. the most important porblem, that i see- we are very afraid of pithing needle. unfortunately we cant play around it =((( so we have to side in answers on needle against all decks. Thats why we have to side in grips against everybody except storm/ of course we can use ancinet grudge. but it do nothing wit back to basicks, moon and rip

thats why it hought about most flexible removal - abrupt decay. they can help with fast decks. and can destroy needle, rip, moon, counterbalance and so on Yes- this is third color, So i have to change mana base. now i am trying like this:

Lands
4 Stage
2 Depths

3 fetch
1 forest
1 Bayou
1 Taiga
1 Badlands

4 grove

1 Urborg
1 Rifstone portal

2 ticket

3 maze

4 wasteland
4 port

1 taber
1 karakas
1 chasm
1 bojuka

// Spells
3 [UL] Crop Rotation
2 [EX] Manabond
4 [US] Exploration
4 [SH] Mox Diamond
4 [RAV] Life from the Loam
4 [ZEN] Punishing Fire
4 [US] Gamble

// Sideboard
SB: 2 [CS] Dark Depths
SB: 4 [EX] Sphere of Resistance
SB: 2 [MR] Chalice of the Void
SB: 2 [LRW] Thorn of Amethyst
SB: 1 [M12] Primeval Titan
SB: 4 [RTR] Abrupt Decay

i wnat to play 3 ticket, 4 maze, 1 quarter and 4 crop, but cant find places for them

so, what do you think about my list, friends?

I like the experimentation, but I'm not sure that Abrupt Decay is worth the splash for us. Abrupt Decay is actually worse against Blood Moon than Krosan Grip, since it requires two colors, which means you'll cast it far less often. I like the idea of Ancient Grudge alot, since it can be dredged (and Ray of Revelation, as in Leaf's list), but mostly likely, neither has enough versatility to make the cut, since our deck has to be able to hit both artifacts and enchantments, no matter what. I do like the idea of adding Urborg (not Riftstone Portal, though, since it is far far more conditional), and if I were too attempt a non-blue build with Engineered Explosives and Buried Ruin, I'd start by adding a Bayou and an Urborg to the deck. A card that I would like to see the most for our deck would be a disenchant effect that works with the graveyard so we can either Gamble OR dredge for it. Maybe that'll be printed right around the corner.

Loxmatii

10-28-2014, 01:24 PM

Rampart

10-28-2014, 01:45 PM

gigapatrick, I of course agree about moon and decay. But i thinkthat pithing needle- is our main problem. So. We have to side in grips or grudges in every match up. For example
Merfolks. Lets forget about btb. Will you side in grips? only for relicks and maybe crypts? i think no. And if they will side in needles? we cant win =( so. we have to side in grips

second example. Jund. Will you side in grips? i think no. and if they will side in needle?

so. my opinion is that we want to have universal answers. and this answer is only decay

Yeah, i don't think pithing needle is our main problem and why don't you think you can win if they do drop a needle? They would have to have two needles and some other way to stop punishing fire from burning there face off to push you off all your win conditions. Also if you won the first game you don't actually need to win the other games as its pretty easy to set up games states where most opponents can't win reasonably.

Also there is no universal answer to pretty much anything in legacy. Decay is not a universal answer as there are cards that decay cannot beat.

Chiptoon

10-28-2014, 02:58 PM

One thing to keep in mind is the interaction between Thespian Stage and Pithing Needle, which isn't always a hard lock. If you ever have a free opportunity to use Stage to copy another land you should always do so because it's no longer named Thespian Stage. I often copy my Taigas, Ports, and Forest so that they either have to call those lands with Needle or risk me just dropping a Depths. It's especially fun to copy Forest because it becomes Wasteland-proof too.

Rampart

10-28-2014, 03:02 PM

It's especially fun to copy Forest because it becomes Wasteland-proof too.

That doesn't work. It still maintains its non-basic land super type.

lordofthepit

10-28-2014, 04:13 PM

That doesn't work. It still maintains its non-basic land super type.

I believe copying a Forest with Thespian Stage turns it into a Basic Forest with the extra Thespian Stage ability.

gigapatrick

10-28-2014, 04:17 PM

That doesn't work. It still maintains its non-basic land super type.

Just checked a thread on The Source that would seem to disagree with this finding. Check it out yourself if you want to wade through all the legalese.

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?27644-Thespians-Stage-Wasteland-Basic-Land

I also wanted to add to Loxmatii: advice I received on mtgsalvation IS to always board in some number of K Grips, since any deck can have hate. Even if it is just one K Grip, at least you'll have an out other than the slow burn of GroveFire. Additionally, to continue the analysis of Abrupt Decay--what does it hit that we care about that we can't otherwise deal with? Liliana of the Veil is terrible against us, and we can kill her with Punishing Fire. Fire hits most relevant creatures, and Maze stalls out those that Fire can't deal with. Tabernacle and Glacial Chasm come down to deal with the yet other creatures that neither Maze nor Fire can handle. Furthermore, Abrupt Decay can't deal with Jace, which can be a big issue for us. So that mostly leaves artifacts and enchantments that we care about, which Grip deals with admirably. My major concern isn't that Krosan Grip doesn't have enough versatility; it's that we don't have room to maindeck it. I'd like there to be some type of noncreature-nonland permanent hate that we could use main, but I don't think any card qualifies as of now.

Rivfader

10-28-2014, 04:17 PM

That doesn't work. It still maintains its non-basic land super type.

This works fine, you can also copy the forest in response to the wasteland activation to make it fizzle. Thespian's Stage that has become a copy of something else, like a Grove of the Burnwillows, can only be needled by naming Grove of the Burnwillows.

I splash black for two Abrupt Decay's (besides two Krosan Grip). They have handled some troublesome cards like meddling mage, Merfolk lords, ... , but they have also turned up lacking because black is sometimes hard to get. Still, I usually side two of them in against fair decks, to handle any situation as Loxmatii describes. I like the reassuring feeling of having an out to most situations.

EDIT: @ Loxmatii, keep an eye on your green mana sources. I think nothing is worse than mulling a perfect hand with loam and exploration away, because no green manasources. 1 Bayou for abrupt Decay is enough in my opinion, I would be hesitant to cut other green sources for badlands, urborg, ...

Rampart

10-28-2014, 04:40 PM

This works fine, you can also copy the forest in response to the wasteland activation to make it fizzle. Thespian's Stage that has become a copy of something else, like a Grove of the Burnwillows, can only be needled by naming Grove of the Burnwillows.

I splash black for two Abrupt Decay's (besides two Krosan Grip). They have handled some troublesome cards like meddling mage, Merfolk lords, ... , but they have also turned up lacking because black is sometimes hard to get. Still, I usually side two of them in against fair decks, to handle any situation as Loxmatii describes. I like the reassuring feeling of having an out to most situations.

EDIT: @ Loxmatii, keep an eye on your green mana sources. I think nothing is worse than mulling a perfect hand with loam and exploration away, because no green manasources. 1 Bayou for abrupt Decay is enough in my opinion, I would be hesitant to cut other green sources for badlands, urborg, ...

ewwww, that's what I thought and got into a pretty spirited argument with a judge about it during an SCG event. Didn't feel like speaking to the head judge for the third time that day :/

I don't think there is anything wrong with splashing abrupt decay, buts its not some universal answer everything a fair deck can through at you, its not going to stop Jace, TNN, Leyline or Sigarda or any other random thing that can through you through a loop. That was the point that I was trying to make. I think if you where going to splash black I would want some other powerful effects like R.Crime, Bob, etc as well.

Rivfader

10-28-2014, 05:07 PM

ewwww, that's what I thought and got into a pretty spirited argument with a judge about it during an SCG event. Didn't feel like speaking to the head judge for the third time that day :/

I don't think there is anything wrong with splashing abrupt decay, buts its not some universal answer everything a fair deck can through at you, its not going to stop Jace, TNN, Leyline or Sigarda or any other random thing that can through you through a loop. That was the point that I was trying to make. I think if you where going to splash black I would want some other powerful effects like R.Crime, Bob, etc as well.

Well, i'm not 100% sold on abrupt decay, but I always used to hesitate during sideboarding: should I board that Krosan Grip in or not. Often to find out it was useless when boarding in, or missing it very much (or even loosing) when not siding it in. Perhaps this is more about playstyle, but abrupt decay brings me peace of mind during sideboarding. They always go in against fair decks, and when I have black available, they are always usefull, even (often) against something that Punishing fire could handle. Abrupt decay offers me a lot, in my opinion, without taking up extra sideboard slots, since I cut 2 Krosan Grips for them.
Without taking extra slots, ahum, I do splash a single Bayou as an extra 61 card. That's not elegant, and 60 cards are preferable, but I think adding a forest (-> bayou) as a 61 card isn't disturbing, since there are 4 fetches and with bayou 4 fetchable lands (besides 2 yaiga and a forest), and I would only water down my maindeck if it was for an extra green source.

Chiptoon

10-28-2014, 05:33 PM

Rivfader

10-28-2014, 06:05 PM

Wouldn't you want Bayou and Urborg for the black splash? I haven't tested it but I would like to think being able to tap Depths and Maze for mana has a ton of utility. Not to mention how sneaky of a Crop Rotation target it would be to players thinking you need one more land drop to combo off. I personally prefer the Lilianna and Smallpox route for black splash, but I understand the appeal of a less straightforward approach to this deck.

Sure, but what to cut? I used to play pox a lot, and am saving for entombs to play Jund Depths as well. But with double black on Liliana and smallpox, Junddepths is black based, where this is primarily G, also R and just a minor splash for black. But if I could add another land it would be Urborg, for the reasons you mention (tapping utility lands for mana).

Dosferra

10-28-2014, 07:01 PM

Sure, but what to cut? I used to play pox a lot, and am saving for entombs to play Jund Depths as well. But with double black on Liliana and smallpox, Junddepths is black based, where this is primarily G, also R and just a minor splash for black. But if I could add another land it would be Urborg, for the reasons you mention (tapping utility lands for mana).

Having mana from Maze, Depths etc is great, having your opponents being able to tap their fetchlands for mana is not, quid pro quo.

thats why it hought about most flexible removal - abrupt decay. they can help with fast decks. and can destroy needle, rip, moon, counterbalance and so on Yes- this is third color, So i have to change mana base. now i am trying like this:
1 Badlands

I have no qualms with splashing a third color, but what I don't agree with at all is the Badlands
Although I often find myself in the same situation "should I board in Krosan even though I'm not even sure he has anything of note to board in against me", usually ends up with me boarding just 1 in.

Also if you won the first game you don't actually need to win the other games as its pretty easy to set up games states where most opponents can't win reasonably.

Couldn't have written it better myself. For me this even extends into the first game. When you feel you have your opponent fairly locked down, let's say by a couple of Mazes and Grove/Punishing, Loam Wasteland/Port or Chasm/Loam going on, then I'm in no rush to finish him off, I'd shot him for 1 each turn while cycle loaming drawing more cards and sculpting the hand and board.
This because game2 and game3 will almost certainly be more hard because of hate.
A player knowledge about Lands would scoop, but lot's just keep on playing, putting in x/2 creatures and not doing any progress what so ever.
So hopefully by the time game2 starts, your opponent is stressed by the clock and you just have to defend yourself, which this deck very well.
So if bring hate, like Pithing Needle, I just turtle up and disregard the combo and instead focus on locking them down.
I'm starting to think that RUG Lands might fit me better.. :)

Of course if you lose the first game.. it's quite a different game.

Rivfader

10-29-2014, 04:59 PM

Having mana from Maze, Depths etc is great, having your opponents being able to tap their fetchlands for mana is not, quid pro quo.

Keep in mind that your opponent exposes his fetches to wasteland this way, where this tapped land could have been a basic land instead.

supremePINEAPPLE

10-31-2014, 11:13 AM

Rivfader

11-01-2014, 04:59 PM

I have my tabernacle in the mail and I cannot wait to start playing this one in paper. I've been playing it online a bit and it's just so much fun.

Did anyone have success trying to shove confidant/decay into the board? I tried swapping my third taiga for a bayou but did not find space for the urborg and decay in particular was annoying to cast. Bob wasn't so bad to cast though and I've loved him in the intuition version of the deck so I may cut down on the decays and go back to krosan in that spot even though decay is so much better vs the delver decks. Just curious if anyone else had gotten any games in with that kind of board.

I have been experimenting with 2 decay's, but I haven't played it enough to know if i'll stick to the card. There was some discussion some posts above.

It will definitely worsen your play a lot against bloodmoon, and you can't hit troublesome enchantments as Sneakattack, Omniscience or Dream Halls. Also slightly worse against Rest in Peace due to the manacost, and against counterbalance/top I think it's better to kill top, which KG can do but AD cannot
It is more versatile though, as it also hits Deathrite Shaman and Meddling Mage, creatures who can disable our engine, and bigger creatures like Merfolk Lords (shrinking the others to punishable sizes), Tarmogoyf, Knight of the Reliquary ... And in the meanwhile remain an answer against randomness like Pithing Needle or Ensnaring Bridge.
I will definitely keep at least two of them in the board since I haven't encountered a single bloodmoon in the last six months, which is definitely the biggest reason to stay with Krosan Grip. I do run 4 fetchlands (I suppose you replaced one with a taiga), because having the black mana available isn't evident.

I don't think carddrawing like bob is necessary, and that it is better to focus on the loamengine for cardadvantage, by protecting loam (thicket, horizon canopy) of destroying RIP and get the engine going again. Or to combo out and win. You'll have some extra sideboardslots to spend on combomatchups that way.

cuthbertthecat

11-01-2014, 05:25 PM

gigapatrick

11-03-2014, 06:34 PM

I'm wondering if anyone has tested Choke in this deck. Miracles is among our worst matchups largely due to their high number of basics, which choke stops pretty effectively. Also, Choke turns Rishadan Port into a recurrable Strip Mine for Islands which is pretty sick.

I've seen a list on mtgtop8 with 2 Chokes in the board, and I'm running 2 Chokes at the moment. Haven't faced Miracles in a tournament yet, so take the next bit of info with a grain of salt: In testing against Miracles, Choke seems close to unbeatable. I definitely think it is worth running.

cuthbertthecat

11-05-2014, 08:10 PM

I've seen a list on mtgtop8 with 2 Chokes in the board, and I'm running 2 Chokes at the moment. Haven't faced Miracles in a tournament yet, so take the next bit of info with a grain of salt: In testing against Miracles, Choke seems close to unbeatable. I definitely think it is worth running.

Yeah, I'm definitely gonna try it out at a tournament for dual lands this weekend. It's even decent against decks like ANT and Show and Tell, which is a plus. I'm pretty sure its wrong to board it in against any Delver deck but I'm not actually 100% sure, have you tested it at all in those matchups?

gigapatrick

11-06-2014, 04:58 PM

Yeah, I'm definitely gonna try it out at a tournament for dual lands this weekend. It's even decent against decks like ANT and Show and Tell, which is a plus. I'm pretty sure its wrong to board it in against any Delver deck but I'm not actually 100% sure, have you tested it at all in those matchups?

I've boarded it in against Ant and felt like I shouldn't have (it sat in my hand while the opponent comboed out before I could cast it), and I've neglected to board it in against Delver Cruise and felt like I should have (if I'd have seen it, I'd have locked my opponent out of the game instead of allowing him time to cast Blood Moon.) So my inclination IS to board in against Delver and NOT against Ant (though I would definitely board it in against Sneak and Show).

Rivfader

11-07-2014, 04:54 AM

I've boarded it in against Ant and felt like I shouldn't have (it sat in my hand while the opponent comboed out before I could cast it), and I've neglected to board it in against Delver Cruise and felt like I should have (if I'd have seen it, I'd have locked my opponent out of the game instead of allowing him time to cast Blood Moon.) So my inclination IS to board in against Delver and NOT against Ant (though I would definitely board it in against Sneak and Show).

I would like to hear more about your experiences with choke this weekend (also from Cuthbertthecat). I used to have 2 in the sideboard, and it was very good against most fair decks. But as you mention, worse against fast combo. So I cut it to dedicate the sideboard mainly to fast combo (chalice, spheres, also 1 or 2 needles).

But I am thinking of choke again, because both Miracles and UR Delver aren't good matchups, and I think the sideboard should be adjusted to this. Right now I am considering 2 choke again. And also 4 chalice of the void, which can be boarded against Miracles, fast combo, and which I'll probably start siding against UR Delver as well. Although the gameplan against UR Delver might be to combo out as soon as possible, instead of chalice.

gigapatrick

11-07-2014, 12:28 PM

I would like to hear more about your experiences with choke this weekend (also from Cuthbertthecat). I used to have 2 in the sideboard, and it was very good against most fair decks. But as you mention, worse against fast combo. So I cut it to dedicate the sideboard mainly to fast combo (chalice, spheres, also 1 or 2 needles).

But I am thinking of choke again, because both Miracles and UR Delver aren't good matchups, and I think the sideboard should be adjusted to this. Right now I am considering 2 choke again. And also 4 chalice of the void, which can be boarded against Miracles, fast combo, and which I'll probably start siding against UR Delver as well. Although the gameplan against UR Delver might be to combo out as soon as possible, instead of chalice.

The board I plan to take to SCG Columbus this weekend is as follows:

4 Krosan Grip
4 Sphere of Resistance
3 Chalice of the Void
2 Choke
2 Dark Depths

(I'm keeping the same maindeck as the one already published in my tournament report).

I think Choke is pretty important right now, since the prevalence of UR Delver has also encouraged more and more people to play Miracles, and while I think UR Delver should actually be a decent matchup for us, I do think Choke is a great card against them too.

In any case, I'll post another report after the Open.

gigapatrick

11-10-2014, 09:52 PM

I've posted another tournament report if anyone is interested.

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?28805-RG-Lands-2-SCG-Columbus&p=846815#post846815

Rivfader

11-12-2014, 03:16 PM

I've posted another tournament report if anyone is interested.

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?28805-RG-Lands-2-SCG-Columbus&p=846815#post846815

Now that's a well written report.Thanks for sharing.

Nice win against Helm/RIP Miracles! Not a good matchup, and apparently choke and chalice made quite a difference. I did notice that choke was boarded in a lot, but besides this matchup, wasn't mentioned a lot in your report. I suppose it faced lots of counters/destruction?

It was interesting to read how you boarded, as it's slightly different of my boarding habits. Usually I side in both Depths, along with manabond. Manabond I board out when there's many (like 4 KGrip/ADecay) nonland sideboardcards, or when I expect extraction (which I don't see that often anymore, seems to be largely replaced by Grafdiggers Cage). I often side in 2 depths and 2 Decay's. Anyway, that gives me plenty opportunity for creating beloved Marit, and especially against the U/R Delver matchup, I think a fast and explosive combowin is this deck's best chance.

Although I do not board extra Depths against other Depths/Stage strategies, as excessive copies of Dark Depths on the table can be copied by your opponent as well (which I learned through a slightly humiliating experience against a MUDpost deck).

So, looking forward to see what you'll play next time. In december I'll play a bigger tournament, and will try to eloquently write a report as well.

gigapatrick

11-13-2014, 03:27 PM

Now that's a well written report.Thanks for sharing.

Nice win against Helm/RIP Miracles! Not a good matchup, and apparently choke and chalice made quite a difference. I did notice that choke was boarded in a lot, but besides this matchup, wasn't mentioned a lot in your report. I suppose it faced lots of counters/destruction?

It was interesting to read how you boarded, as it's slightly different of my boarding habits. Usually I side in both Depths, along with manabond. Manabond I board out when there's many (like 4 KGrip/ADecay) nonland sideboardcards, or when I expect extraction (which I don't see that often anymore, seems to be largely replaced by Grafdiggers Cage). I often side in 2 depths and 2 Decay's. Anyway, that gives me plenty opportunity for creating beloved Marit, and especially against the U/R Delver matchup, I think a fast and explosive combowin is this deck's best chance.

Although I do not board extra Depths against other Depths/Stage strategies, as excessive copies of Dark Depths on the table can be copied by your opponent as well (which I learned through a slightly humiliating experience against a MUDpost deck).

So, looking forward to see what you'll play next time. In december I'll play a bigger tournament, and will try to eloquently write a report as well.

Glad you enjoyed the report, and thanks for the compliments.

On Choke: I boarded it in against all the decks with Islands in them (Bug Midrange, Miracles x2, Bug Delver, Delver Cruise,) and the time I cast it against RIP Miracles was the only time it hit the board. In the other matches, I either didn't see it or it got countered. At the time, Choke seemed of the utmost utility against RIP Miracles, but when I think on it now, I wonder how much it actually did. Once I had Chalice on one and Chalice on four, Miracles couldn't really do anything of consequence. It did probably keep her off four mana long enough for me to get the Chalice on four (which she said was a good play, since the next turn she planned on playing Helm). So the card is probably worth a slot in the board, though as I said in my report, I'd probably change the Chalice/Choke split to 4/1. At my next local legacy tournament, I might try something else in the board entirely, something from Legacy's deep card pool, not sure what, but I wouldn't mind scouring Gatherer for something crazy and brutal.

On boarding: I think I'm boarding out Manabond too often. I agree that it should probably stay in against Delver Cruise, as comboing out quickly does seem like our best avenue towards winning. I think in the future I'll only board out Manabond if I expect RIP or an Extraction effect, or possibly against Deathrite Shaman decks. As for boarding in Depths: I expected to do it more often than I did, but my expectations for how the deck would play out didn't actually pan out most of the time. That is, I expected to play the control role in game one and then, to board with hate in mind, go for the combo as quickly as possible in games two and three. I found myself more often than not just going for the combo without a hardlock in almost all of my game ones, and then in games two and three trying to play the control game. I'm not sure why it played out like this; maybe that's just what the deck is designed to do more than anything else. I use to think that the deck was a control deck first and then a combo deck second, but after Columbus, my perception on that point may be shifting.

In any case, I look forward to your future report.

Addendum: Wanted to add to that I think that I should have boarded Chalice of the Void in against Delver Cruise as well. Not sure what to cut for it, but I'm leaning towards Chalice as an excellent strategy to turn off half of Counterburn's deck.

Rivfader

11-17-2014, 06:45 AM

It seems there was quite a representation of RG lands on the second day of the GP! Congratulations to the players who were there. And if anyone would like to share a report, I am very interested to read it.

Dice_Box

11-19-2014, 08:54 AM

I am wondering, does this thread meet the requirements for moving it to Established now? I mean, this deck has been doing well for a while now and if Tabernacle cost less than your first born, I reckon it would see more play.

snorlaxcom

11-19-2014, 09:01 AM

Getting that started. Messaged Kurt for a primer earlier in the week and he's writing an op. I'll keep you updated.

Dice_Box

11-19-2014, 09:19 AM

Sweet, thanks.

I got my last two Depths and my Gambles today. The deck is finished and I am thinking it will be my main for a good long while. So while I do not have the experience to help with a primer, if you need help shoot me a message.

jarvisyu

11-19-2014, 09:44 AM

Former Professional Wizard Benjamin Peebles-Mundy went 12-3 with RG Lands as well, despite not having playtested at all.

He said he was disappointed not to win one more match, although he said he expected to go 4-3 drop then cube.

Dice_Box

11-19-2014, 10:28 AM

Got a link to the list? I can not find it.

jarvisyu

11-19-2014, 05:10 PM

Got a link to the list? I can not find it.

I believe it's really close to this:

//36
4 Green Fetchland
3 Taiga
1 Forest
4 Thespian Stage
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
1 Tabernacle at the Pendrell Vale
3 Maze of Ith
4 Dark Depths
2 Tranquil Thicket
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Glacial Chasm

//24
2 Manabond
4 Exploration
4 Mox Diamond
3 Crop Rotation
3 Punishing Fire
4 Gamble
4 Life from the Loam

Sideboard
4 Krosan Grip
4 Sphere of Resistance
1 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Chalice of the Void
2 Pithing Needle
1 Crop Rotation
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Karakas

nothing too exciting here, because Peebles-Mundy hadn't playtested at all before the tournament and just decided to run a 'stock' list (aka what a bunch of people (including myself) could get him).

cuthbertthecat

11-20-2014, 02:00 PM

Hi everyone, about to stream a daily on MTGO with this deck. http://www.twitch.tv/cuthbertthecat

gigapatrick

11-21-2014, 09:48 AM

Enjoyed your video, cuthbert. Rough facing two combo decks. I agree with you about Choke; don't think it is near good enough for those matchups.

Dice_Box

11-22-2014, 05:05 PM

Watching the Past vid, a good amount of it is muted.

cuthbertthecat

11-22-2014, 11:09 PM

Watching the Past vid, a good amount of it is muted.

Yeah, Twitch has started to buckle down on muting copyrighted music playing in the background of streams apparently. I'll probably stream without music next time for better re-watching value.

snorlaxcom

12-03-2014, 09:29 PM

Haven't forgot about you guys. Kurt is almost done.

jereminus

12-08-2014, 06:30 AM

Dice_Box

12-08-2014, 07:23 AM

The thing is, in none of the situations you have outlined does it do something we can not already do. Land destruction is the decks bread and butter. There is no need to add more. Stopping DRS for two mana would be better done with Punishing Fire. The worst card in Thresh is Stifle, why would we add it to this deck?

dafrk3in

12-08-2014, 08:40 AM

Hello,
Could Bind be an intersesting maindeck option for RG lands?
The biggest difficulty would be to make some room in the already very tight decklists, but this card could add more mana disruption (destroy fetchlands), protect our mana & lands (nullify wastelands, destroy opposing ports, get rid of random karakas being activated), protect a loam or specific land vs Deathrite Shamans, etc.
It looks like it's nearly never going to be a dead card.

Any thoughts?

Thanks - Jeremy

1: The card is way too narrow.
2: Generally, non-land cards in the deck need to have a very high impact to be included since one of the main advantages of playing the deck is that you get to "draw" extra cards with loam.

door

12-08-2014, 08:42 AM

Hi guys. Last Saturday I piloted RG lands to the top8 finish at the 95 men Moscow Legacy open. I played Loxmatii's list with an aggregate sideboard:

Lands:
4 Thespian's Stage
2 Dark Depths

2 Green fetchlands
1 Forest
1 Bayou
2 Taiga
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Rifstone Portal
3 Tranquil Thicket

4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
1 Ghost Quarter

3 Maze of Ith
1 Tabernacle
1 Karakas
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Bojuka Bog

Spells:
3 Crop Rotation
2 Manabond
4 Exploration
4 Mox Diamond
4 Life from the Loam
4 Punishing Fire
4 Gamble
//61 cards

Sideboard:
1 Dark Depths
3 Sphere of Resistance
3 Chalice of the Void
1 Primeval Titan
3 Krosan Grip
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Zuran Orb
1 Choke

My games:
Round1 2-0 Affinity, felt like eating a tasty piece of cake

Round2 2-1 UR-burn, G1 it was easy, G2 lost to Price of Progress, G3 found Zuran Orb, but got a Needle on Stage, so had to win with P-fires for a 1000 years

Round3 1-1 Mirror match, playing mirror match is like fighting in a dream. G1 I mull to 5, he had fast combo, but I got crop to waste his attempt in response. Then he destroys my manabase and for 15 minutes we are trying to topdeck any business. Eventually I manage to stabilize on mana and got loam. He gots his loam the next turn and suddenly the game turns into a great whirlwind, where each player is trying to combo off first and at the same time bitch up the opponent. In the end I was more nimble. G2 he puts chalice at 1 and shows fast combo. Additional turns are announced while we are shuffling. The judge asks us not to play g3. I appeal and we are allowed to start. I got a very nice hand but it's a 1 turn slower than I can afford.

Round4 2-1 Miracles, G1 I have stage+depths+exploration+gamble for loam and he can't afford playing Balance because every turn he needs to find an answer for the token. G2 he has double Balance and RIP and I only have 1 decay and 1 Krosan Grip, and my choke is FoWed. I manage to put Titan in play, but find stage+depths instead of stage+chasm and die to entreat. We have 10 minutes more but my opponent decides to give me a win, because he's not confident in his decks while I am.

Round5 2-1 DnT, I have to play against my good friend and a teammate, with whom I made the road to Moscow that day. We playtested a bit in a train and the matchup felt very difficult for me. G1 we both have a goldfish, but I can reassemble the token with loam and he can't StP it every turn. G2 he fixes my manabase with revoker, wasteland and port. G3 he has a mulligan and doesn't find answer for the token in time.

Round6 2-0 Miracles, G1 he assembles top+loam+2cmc on top before I can find combo with loam. I have 4 p.fires but I can fire only in rare moments when he is forced to crack fetches or play Dig through time. After nearly 30 minutes of that suffering I manually find 2 ports, ghost quarter and Dark Depths. I start taking counters off manually. By that time he has 2 plains and 1 tundra, with all other white sources already wastelanded. He desperately brainstorms with Jace in search for Entreat, keeping a 2cmc and a terminus on top. I make a ghost of one of his plains and tap another plains and tundra. Making sure his white mana is burned, I create a token at his end step. That game was a real try out for both players. But I made no mistakes and was rewarded. G2 he FoWs my chalice, I gamble for choke after he's tapped out for a batterskull, but he Forces choke. Nevertheless, I feel safe with a Krosan Grip and loam, even with his top+balance. I make sure he doesn't win this game.

Round7 id

Top8
0-2 DnT, Again I have to play against my friend, but this time he wins the match and the whole tournament. In both games he has an StP PLUS Whisp and wastes my resources. And in G2 I keep a Krosan Grip, but he has double RiP, wastes my only green source and puts revoker on Mox. Anyway, I feel very happy for both of us. In finals he wins against burn, the deadliest match up for me and I heave a sigh of relief.

My feelings after the tournament:
- missed the versatility of RUG lands very much. CB+top would not be a problem at all with a EE or Tolaria West.
- had issues with colored mana, especially while playing against DnT. The 5th Mox Diamond wanted dead or alive.
+ SB felt very solid. I was happy I had 5 uncounterable cards for destroying CB
+ a single Titan is a boomerr against Miracles. However, would like to try Assault as well. But there can be only one.
+ Would not go out from home without Zuran Orb. At least it can be found with Gamble.
- Can't say I needed choke that much. Can be turned into the 4th sphere or 2nd Zuran orb
+ Didn't miss Depths №4 at all, even in G3 against Mirror.

Dosferra

12-11-2014, 01:47 PM

Hi guys. Last Saturday I piloted RG lands to the top8 finish at the 95 men Moscow Legacy open.
Thank you for the report and congratulations on your result, especially considering you faced Miracles twice.

That round 6 game 1 looks both laborious and rewarding, as this particular matchup often is.

And I agree about DnT, it's difficult. I'd usually consider us slightly favored, but if it's a strong DnT pilot AND they have experience against Lands, then I'd actually consider us slightly unfavored over 3 games.

Rivfader

12-12-2014, 05:45 AM

Congrats on the finish Door. I don't think you had easy matchups in facing multiple D&T and Miracles, but you fared quite well against them. RUG lands has a better anwer in EE-lock in these matchups, I see why you missed the versality of RUG.
About lacking colored mana, a suggestion is to cut a Riftstone Portal and a Tranquil Thicket for a fetchland and a Horizon Canopy. Riftstone portal is great if it gets in the yard, but dredging into it is a longshot and otherwise you'd have to play and waste/crop it, so its advantage probably doesn't outweigh that it doesn't produce G. Horizon Canopy provides G, provides a draw and can be rotated for.

Thanks for posting the report by the way, I like reading them and I'd wish more players would do so.

gigapatrick

12-16-2014, 12:11 PM

A short tournament report for interested parties.

http://www.mtgsalvation.com/userblogs/gigapatrick-blog/39769-rg-lands-3-epic-loot

Rivfader

12-18-2014, 04:27 PM

A short tournament report for interested parties.

http://www.mtgsalvation.com/userblogs/gigapatrick-blog/39769-rg-lands-3-epic-loot

Interesting read cause your reports are very detailed. Boarding out crop rotation did surprise me, I mostly go the other way around, maxing out on the combo game two with all copies of crops/depths. You mentioned you missed the fourth crop rotation, why is that so? It seemed to me you mostly boarded for the long, grindy game without crops. Courser of Kruphix makes sense in that context, similar to a confidant in a RUGlist.
Should you cut down on the chalices, I would test a single Zuran Orb. Gambling into one seems like a fine backup plan against burn / delverburn.

Got a a slightly bigger event this weekend, I am torn between running a single Primetime or a Sylvan Library. The first being way more powerful than the latter, also way more expensive to cast. I like Sylvan Library a lot, especially versus white decks where an sworded token fuels extra draws. Im always happy to see that one, where I am often unhappy to see an early Primetime with it's six mana castingcost.

gigapatrick

12-18-2014, 06:39 PM

You mentioned you missed the fourth crop rotation, why is that so?

Glad you enjoyed the read.

I missed the fourth Crop Rote because it's just so damn versatile. Not only does it often secure auto-wins when you have one piece of the combo but not the other, it also finds utility lands when you need to form your fortress. Playing four just seems like the right number to me, even though I've seen lots of lists with just three.

I boarded out the Rotes mostly to make room for the Coursers, which I really wanted to see in action this tournament--which, as you said, makes for a grindier game. However, the accepted version of RG, as it stands, doesn't really have the versatility to meet the demands of the grindier game. It wins by either comboing, or setting up a really quick lock with Loam, Waste, and Ports. Since my inclination, though, is to go for the prison-type game, I'm thinking of trying some alternative card choices for my next event (one of which could be Zuran Orb). We'll see how it goes.

Peace.

Rivfader

12-19-2014, 03:47 AM

Since my inclination, though, is to go for the prison-type game, I'm thinking of trying some alternative card choices for my next event (one of which could be Zuran Orb). We'll see how it goes.

Do you already have some idea's on these alternative choices?

I ran for some time a hybrid list, with 1 EE, 2 Trop Isles, 2 TolariaWest, 1 Academy Ruins (trading out with -1 manabond, -2 tranquil thicket, -1 PFire, -1 ghost Quarter) 61 cards total. I wanted the best of both worlds, cheap tutors and combofocus of RG, and TWest with EE lock from RUG. I did have mana issues with it, between reliably having R and UU (Tolaria West), although it had kind of the same manabase of RUGlands. Also manabond and EE / Tolaria West wasn't ideal. But having the EE lock and some tools to assemble it felt real good.

gigapatrick

12-19-2014, 08:55 AM

Do you already have some idea's on these alternative choices?

I am interested in porting the Ruins/EE lock from Rug to increase maindeck answers while mostly maintaining Rg's oops, I win qualities. Here's what I think I'll try out next time. Take the normal Rg list, then:

-1 Punishing Fire
-2 Tranquil Thicket
-2 Manabond

+2 Engineered Explosives
+1 Buried Ruin
+1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
+1 Horizon, Canopy

Between Mox Diamond, Bojuka Bog, Horizon Canopy, and Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, I should be able to reliably set EE to three (though setting it at lower numbers will be way more frequent) while only losing one green source. Perhaps even the final Tranquil thicket could even become a Bayou so that I can fetch for a third color when I need to and possibly have a couple of Abrupt Decays on the board. Rest of the deck stays Rg Combo Lands, though admittedly slower with the tradeoff (hopefully) of being able to play a more versatile game.

That's the idea. We'll see how it turns out.

Rivfader

12-23-2014, 05:10 AM

I played the Belgian Legacy Cup this weekend, and finished 8th out of 102 players. Cause I like reading reports, I'd like to share one as well:
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/userblogs/rivfeder/39994-rg-lands-in-belgian-legacy-cup-8th-place

Any comments or tips would be appreciated, especially on siding - hope you enjoy the read.

Krion

12-28-2014, 11:45 PM

What matches aside from storm do you board in spheres for?

Dice_Box

12-29-2014, 07:28 PM

Anything you want to slow down. Burn, Blue Cantrip decks like Omnishow and Mana greedy but mana light decks like RUG.

Krion

12-30-2014, 10:35 PM

Anything you want to slow down. Burn, Blue Cantrip decks like Omnishow and Mana greedy but mana light decks like RUG.

I've been testing against a bunch of decks over the past week with 4 sphere and 1 thorn in the sideboard.. The spheres feel unnecessary against RUG. They also don't seem to be particularly great against omnitell or sneak and show from the few matches I tested with them. It seems like they take up a lot of room for just two matchups that aren't incredibly popular. That being storm and elves.

Also has anyone tried playing a containment priest in the sideboard? I'm not sure if it's worth trying or if it's just worth conceding the matchup all together.

Rivfader

01-06-2015, 02:34 PM

I've been testing against a bunch of decks over the past week with 4 sphere and 1 thorn in the sideboard.. The spheres feel unnecessary against RUG. They also don't seem to be particularly great against omnitell or sneak and show from the few matches I tested with them. It seems like they take up a lot of room for just two matchups that aren't incredibly popular. That being storm and elves.

Also has anyone tried playing a containment priest in the sideboard? I'm not sure if it's worth trying or if it's just worth conceding the matchup all together.

Problem with offcolor sideboardcards against combo, is that you need your (white) manasource along your hate. That reduces your odds by quite a bit. And even then these decks are prepared to deal with hatebears. At least the spheres are very synergetic with the manadenial plan, slowing your opponent down while you try to combo first.

I don't think Sneak show is like conceding without specific hate. Karakas with Krosan Grip backup is quite good, and Needle works well on Sneak Attack. Omnitell is a different story though.

Dice_Box

01-07-2015, 08:21 AM

Rivfader

01-07-2015, 04:17 PM

Played against Ascendancy last night, that I feel will be the easiest of all the combo decks to fight when you learn how it works. I would suggest watching some videos, it's quite the glass cannon that fails with pinpoint targeting of the combo cards. Also, due to needing to leave early to go to work last night was the first week playing this deck I have not gone 3-1 or better. I went 2-1 drop leaving for work. (Handing the win to my 3rd round opponent as there was no reason to kick him out of the cash if I was leaving anyway.) I have not has so much fun with a deck since Goblins where a thing.

Haven't played it yet, but it seems very manageable. Lots of nonbasics, punishable creaturewincons, spheres against the cantrips into oblivion. It reminds me of elves or infect, creaturebased combodecks that are vulnerable to manadenial and punishing fire. I certainly prefer this above some other combomatchups.

Lt. Quattro

01-11-2015, 06:24 PM

Haven't forgot about you guys. Kurt is almost done.

Is the primer still being worked on? This version of the deck placed top 4 and another one at 19th place.

Madmankevinx

01-12-2015, 11:14 PM

I'd sure like to hear from someone who did well in Philly with this deck if they see this.

snorlaxcom

01-12-2015, 11:21 PM

hopdevil0

01-12-2015, 11:32 PM

I'd sure like to hear from someone who did well in Philly with this deck if they see this.

This is Dave Long. I top 4ed the event. I'll put together a write up as soon as I can. Hopefully tomorrow. I'd be happy to answer any questions anyone had about the event or the list.

Chatto

01-13-2015, 03:50 AM

I'm still in contact with Kurt at my lgs, but his comp died and he said he's been busy in the meantime these past weeks. He still intends to submit a primer. It was indeed a good meta for Loam strategies in general.

Sure like to read a primer! I'm almost finished putting this deck together, just one Port to go! Did some testing, really would like some pro-tips on decktech and sideboarding :smile:

This is Dave Long. I top 4ed the event. I'll put together a write up as soon as I can. Hopefully tomorrow. I'd be happy to answer any questions anyone had about the event or the list.

Hi David, congrats on your finish! Sure would appreciate a report. Looking forward to it!

gigapatrick

01-14-2015, 11:02 AM

Hi everyone. Little report if you're interested.

Rg Lands #4: Epic Loot (http://www.mtgsalvation.com/userblogs/gigapatrick-blog/40493-rg-lands-4-epic-loot)

baptist

01-16-2015, 03:35 AM

This is Dave Long. I top 4ed the event. I'll put together a write up as soon as I can. Hopefully tomorrow. I'd be happy to answer any questions anyone had about the event or the list.

I'm really interested in a report, since I'm planning to start testing this deck.

hopdevil0

01-16-2015, 08:06 AM

Hey guys,

Here is a short report on my top 4 finish at SCG Philly with RG lands.

My list was pretty similar to my list from SCG Richmond. Overall I wouldn't make any changes to the list except for possibly cutting a Krosan Grip for another anti-combo card.

Here is a round by round description. My notes are poor so some of this may be a little out of order.

Round 1: URb Delver. These games were all pretty tight. My opponent had played lands before so I actually thought this was a mirror when I sat down. In game three I get the combo but he has put enough pressure on me that it will be a turn late. As he goes for the lethal attack I crack a Horizon Canopy looking for Crop Rotation. I hit it and plan to go for Glacial Chasm which would fog for a turn and let me win on the next turn. Sadly, his top deck was a Smash to Smithereens which is exactly lethal since I am at 3. Rough way to start.

0-1.

Round 2: URb Delver. I don't remember a whole lot about this one. My hands were strong and I don't think it was close.

1-1.

Round 3: Maverick. He got out really fast in the first game with a lot of pressure and my hand struggled. I eventually found a Tabernacle which was sufficient to ease the pressure and I was able to assemble the combo. Game 2 was much less close where I overpowered him.

2-1.

Round 4: Don't remember this one. Sorry. Won it 2-0

3-1.

Round 5: BUG control. This was Gerard Fabiano's list I believe. Game 1 he established a fast Counterbalance/Top. This locked out my loam engine. Fortunately he had little pressure so given enough time I was able to draw both combo pieces. He had no answer and I was able to take the game. Game 2 i had a very strong hand that made the Lage on turn two for the win.

4-1.

Round 6: Miracles. Game one went fairly long. I believe he resolved a Jace and was ticking up. I assembled the combo and was able to port his white mana (I think). Game 2 I dropped choke and between that and rishadan port was able to constrict his mana entirely until I found the combo.

5-1.

Round 7: Osyp Lebedowicz on Miracles. Game 1 he established Counterbalance/top. However, I kept casting and resolving my loams because he could not find a 2 casting cost card to put on top. Eventually I made the Lage and he did not have an answer. Game 2 I ported his mana significantly and was able to make the Lage while he had no white mana available.

6-1.

Round 8: Death and Taxes. Game 1 I believe I won pretty easily but I don't remember. Game 2 I got the combo assembled but got blown out by Armageddon. I had played around Cataclysm by holding a colorless land in my hand to pair with a green source I would keep. However, he was playing Armageddon for some reason and it really got me. I never found green again and he had a swords for the Lage. I was beat to death by two mother of runes… Game 3 He didn't have much pressure and I was able to get the win. He brought it Grafdigger's cage (which doesn't do anything). He realized his mistake as soon as he cast the cage.

7-1.

Round 9: RUGb Delver. This matchup is great. Tabernacle took game 1. Game 2 was not very close. This opponent was super nice and seemed like a great guy.

8-1.

End of Day 1.

Day 2:

Round 10: Peter Johnson on Sneak and Show. He went for show and tell on turn 2 I believe. Fortunately I had two copies of crop rotation to go get Karakas for his Emrakul. I took that game. Game 2 was really close. He had a Pithing needle to turn off my Karakas which I had a few sphere effects to limit his mana. I couldn't assemble the combo and got killed once he was finally able to resolve his combo. Game 3 on turn 1 I gambled for Karakas. He then played a pithing needle on Turn one on Karakas. He then was able to play Show and Tell for the win.

8-2.

Round 11: Jim Davis on Storm. I cursed when I saw this pairing. Somehow game 1 I was able to restrict his mana game 1 and land a fast Lage for the win. Game 2 I assembled the combo on turn 2 or 3 but he was able to kill me off a single land he played that turn. Four rituals later and I was dead. Game 3 was super close. I landed a sphere and a chalice on zero. He abrupt decayed the chalice and was then able to cast Ad Nauseum. He flipped down to 4 and had not found an LED to be able to empty his hand. He had two brainstorms he could cast but it wasn't clear if he would find what he needed. He flips one more card: Past in Flames!!! I get the win on a miracle.

9-2.

Round 12: UR Delver. Game 1 I keep a hand that has manabond and six lands. The six lands have the combo so if I resolve the manabond I can make the Lage on turn one. Sadly he has a FoW. He lands a few early threats but I make the Lage on Turn 4. I'm able to get this one by fading a bolt and having his delver not flip on a critical turn. Definitely thought I was going to lose that game. Game 2 I make a Lage on turn 2 and he can't find his one of vapor snag.

10-2.

Round 13: Gerard Fabiano on BUG control. I keep a sketchy hand and get really punished game 1 by a little discard and counter magic. Really wish I could've done that mulligan decision again. The hand was really mana light and I got blown out by an abrupt decay on my mox. Games 2 and 3 I was able to take advantage of his deck's slow clock and get the Lage early something he doesn't have an answer for.

11-2.

Round 14: Rudy Briksza on Shardless BUG. This one was on camera. I kept about the weakest five card hand I would keep. It was wasteland, mox, maze of ith, horizon canopy, and glacial chasm. I kept because it had green mana and I figured it could hold off his minimal pressure for a while and get a lot of draw steps. I got thoughtseized and hymned but then top decked loam and got it from there. Game 2 I had a really strong hand and was able to take it.

12-2.

Round 15: ID into top 8!

12-2-1.

Top 8: After getting paired against Painter and Death and Taxes in my two previous top 8's I was less than thrilled to see Omnitell as my pairing. This one has a write up on the SCG website. I kept a hand game one that made the Lage on turn 3 with me on the play. It seemed fine and was sadly a turn slow. I was hoping he would have to cantrip a little more to assemble things. Game 2 I had a perfect hand with two sphere effects and the combo. Game 3 was very close. I made a major error by getting my second sphere countered by FoW. I should have wastelanded his ancient tomb and then cast the second sphere. I was getting tired… Fortunately, I was still able to take the match.

Top 4: Daryl Ayers on RUG. There is a write up on this one as well. My hands were fine both games. I had the combo in both but my crop rotations into defensive pieces were countered and he was able to hold up a wasteland both game to disrupt my combo. I don't think I should have mulliganed either hand as they had loam and the combo but it is possible I should have gone looking for more acceleration.

I'd be happy to answer any questions about the tourney or the list. The deck felt really strong all day. Highly recommend it.

Chatto

01-17-2015, 05:45 AM

Hi everyone. Little report if you're interested.

Rg Lands #4: Epic Loot (http://www.mtgsalvation.com/userblogs/gigapatrick-blog/40493-rg-lands-4-epic-loot)

Aiaiai, too bad... Still, thank you for your report.

Hey guys,

Here is a short report on my top 4 finish at SCG Philly with RG lands.

(...)

Thanks for your report! A couple of questions:

- How many times did Choke came in and did you mulled or Gambled for it?
- What kind of extra anti-combo card would you choose?
- Do you think Delver-based decks are close or even MU's? Or is this a generalisation on my part? The reason I ask this is because of your last round MU, which (as I read it) could be won with the right cards.
- Do you recollect how you boarded in your MU's?

door

01-19-2015, 05:21 AM

Hey guys,

Here is a short report on my top 4 finish at SCG Philly with RG lands.

Congrats with a strong finish and thank you for the report!

owerbart

01-19-2015, 06:22 AM

Hi. Does this deck differences too much from the Jund Depths Kennen Haas piloted in SCG Indy last year?

Rivfader

01-19-2015, 08:15 AM

Hi. Does this deck differences too much from the Jund Depths Kennen Haas piloted in SCG Indy last year?

Jund Depths is closer to pox. It has black as it's primary color in smallpox and Liliana of the Veil, with a red and green splash for the strongest effects that break the symmetry (Life from the Loam and Punishing Fire). Whereas RG lands is built around the loam-engine (and therefore primarily green), where each card returns from the graveyard (land, loam, Pfire) or is an accelerant or tutor.

owerbart

01-19-2015, 08:42 AM

Jund Depths is closer to pox. It has black as it's primary color in smallpox and Liliana of the Veil, with a red and green splash for the strongest effects that break the symmetry (Life from the Loam and Punishing Fire). Whereas RG lands is built around the loam-engine (and therefore primarily green), where each card returns from the graveyard (land, loam, Pfire) or is an accelerant or tutor.

Thanks. There's any reason why this deck isn't running Into the North? It looks great for speeding up stuff, since it can search for Dark Depths.

Rivfader

01-19-2015, 08:56 AM

Thanks. There's any reason why this deck isn't running Into the North? It looks great for speeding up stuff, since it can search for Dark Depths.
Both these decks are mainly controldecks, and as Into the North only gets Dark Depths, it's pretty limited when your gameplan isn't to combo out as fast as possible. There is a pure comboDarkDepthsdeck (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?28813-Deck-Dark-Depths) though, there it's probably included.

Chatto

01-20-2015, 12:30 AM

Sooo... With the banning of TC, do you guys think the meta will be better/ even for this deck? I mean, I believe discard will be on the rise again.

1337erhosen

01-21-2015, 03:39 PM

Rivfader

01-22-2015, 04:58 AM

I think the meta will get better. No more Treasure Cruise means more Spell Pierce, Thoughtseize, Hymn to tourach ... which should evolve in less (fast) combo.

Chatto

01-23-2015, 03:39 AM

Yeah I think the banning of TC was bad for us, as I expect people to switch back to playing Delver decks with Wasteland, Stifle, and Spell Pierce. If the format reverts to the BUG decks of 2013, I also expect Blood Moon strategies to see more success, which is bad news.

I think you are right, but I'm not too concerned about Wasteland, Stifle or Spell Pierce: you can play around those cards. Blood Moon on the other hand can be a pain in the ass...

I think the meta will get better. No more Treasure Cruise means more Spell Pierce, Thoughtseize, Hymn to tourach ... which should evolve in less (fast) combo.

Agreed, discard will definately slow down some fast combo and the meta in general, giving us a better chance. Overall, I believe this deck can make for a solid choice.

DredgingLoam

01-26-2015, 02:18 AM

So, after playing this deck a few times, I am currently at this current configuration:
4 Crop Rotation
4 Exploration
4 Gamble
4 Life from the Loam
4 Mox Diamond
3 Punishing Fire
2 Manabond

4 Grove of the Burnwillows
4 Rishadan Port
4 Thespian's Stage
4 Wasteland
3 Dark Depths
3 Maze of Ith
2 Taiga
1 Forest
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Tranquil Thicket
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
1 ?

Sideboard
4 Krosan Grip
4 Sphere of Resistance
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Chalice of the Void
1 Choke
1 Dark Depths
1 Pithing Needle
1 Thorn of Amethyst
1 ?

Now, for the mainboard, I want some combination of 3rd Taiga, 2nd Tranquil Thicket and 4th fetch. For the sideboard, I can see a Primeval Titan, a Choke, a Needle, a Chalice or moving the 3rd Dark Depths to the board to move an additional card to the main. Any suggestions for any of these slots? Also, any chance that we want the 4th Punishing Fire anywhere?

Dice_Box

01-26-2015, 02:43 AM

I would always look at adding the extra mana source (coloured) over other toys main. You need to remember that even though you are a "Lands" deck, a good amount are in fact spells. As for the side, I don't use Prime anymore. Unless SnT is around, I just don't see the point. I rather stock up on what I can against the matches I need to win. Here is my list:

Artifacts
4 Mox Diamond

Spells
4 Crop Rotation
4 Gamble
4 Life from the Loam
3 Punishing Fire

Enchantments
4 Exploration
2 Manabond

Mana Lands
1 Forest
3 Taiga
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
4 Grove of the Burnwillows

Mana Denial
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
4 Rishadan Port
4 Wasteland
1 Ghost Quarter

Combo
4 Thespian's Stage
3 Dark Depths

Draw
2 Tranquil Thicket
1 Horizon Canopy

Utility
3 Maze of Ith
1 Glacial Chasm

Sideboard
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Dark Depths
1 Karakas
3 Krosan Grip
1 Ancient Grudge
4 Sphere of Resistance
2 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Choke

Add that extra Dual in, as for what you should be siding, that's far more personal a choice and I would only suggest weighing your options.

Edit.
Just got pointed out this deck took second and third this weekend. If there is not a new primer up by the end of the month, I am going to pen one myself. It's about time we where in the proper forum.

Serbitar

01-26-2015, 03:24 AM

As for the side, I don't use Prime anymore. Unless SnT is around, I just don't see the point. I rather stock up on what I can against the matches I need to win.

I think this is a misconception. At least I have never thought about Titan as a SnT bullet but as a card similar to the Dark Confidants older Lands lists were running: You bring it in to have some graveyard independent 'engine' card for the post board games. I basically always bring in Titan unless facing Combo or very aggressive decks.

Dice_Box

01-26-2015, 03:27 AM

Not a bad point, thanks.

Fuzzy

01-26-2015, 07:02 AM

Isn't time to go to Estabilished? This deck is making Top8s almost every week...

Dice_Box

01-26-2015, 07:10 AM

Well I think the original plan was to ask Kurt Spiess to pen a new primer and with the posting of that we would shift over, but if it doesn't happen, I will pen one myself with the help of those who wish to add information. I know how to play the deck well enough to type up a card selection, tips and tricks, a light history and some light sideboarding, but I am not as skilled as others that have posted here. I think they could do better than I but I am thinking we can not wait forever and if I must, I will get something started.

Plus, no reason I can not get a skeleton laid out and have others help in fleshing it out in the interim.

Anen

01-26-2015, 07:11 AM

Isn't time to go to Estabilished? This deck is making Top8s almost every week...

Forum: Established Decks
For "finished" decks: Decks which are optimized and thoroughly tested. A deck is not required to have proven itself in a competitive tournament environment to be included in the Open Forum, but it is recommended. A thorough writeup including card choices, strategy, and matchup descriptions is required.

The Established section needs a little more than "making top 8 every week". I suggest you contact Kurt or Snorlaxcom if you want to help on that.

Richard Cheese

01-26-2015, 11:58 AM

Just write a decent primer and contact a mod.

gigapatrick

01-26-2015, 06:55 PM

A report for the interested.

Rg Lands #5 (http://www.mtgsalvation.com/userblogs/gigapatrick-blog/40782-rg-lands-5-epic-loot)

HdH_Cthulhu

01-26-2015, 08:13 PM

Reading the reports, manabond never did shine! So is it really wroth it?

Dice_Box

01-27-2015, 02:04 AM

Reading the reports, manabond never did shine! So is it really wroth it?

Yes, yes it is. It is like Exploration 5 and 6 on top of just being more explosive. If your Gambling for the effect later I was the game, that is normally your target.

Chatto

01-27-2015, 10:43 AM

How would you board against Reanimator? Sphere, Needle, Thorn and Chalice?

SB looks like this atm:

1 Bojuka Bog.
1 Crop Rotation.
1 Pithing Needle.
1 Thorn of Amethyst.
1 Chalice of the Void.
2 Seismic Assault.
4 Sphere of Resistance
4 Krosan Grip.

Thinking about Prime, after some comments being made here.

Krion

01-27-2015, 11:30 AM

I've had a lot of luck running a one of ancient tomb in the side. It really helps improve the chances of landing a turn 1 sphere or chalice. It basically turns any crop rotation into a mox.

Chatto

01-28-2015, 06:55 AM

I've had a lot of luck running a one of ancient tomb in the side. It really helps improve the chances of landing a turn 1 sphere or chalice. It basically turns any crop rotation into a mox.

Basically you use Ancient Tomb to power out the disruption t1, alright. I had one Ancient Tomb in my SB, perhaps I should reconsider it again.

DredgingLoam

01-30-2015, 02:45 AM

Rampart

01-30-2015, 07:57 AM

I'm working on my sideboard plan vs OmniShow. Currently, this is my plan:
IN:
1 Dark Depths
1 Choke
4 Krosan Grip
1 Chalice of the Void
4 Sphere of Resistance
1 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Ancient Tomb (if I decide to play it)

OUT:
3 Maze of Ith
1 Tabernacle
1 Glacial Chasm
3 Punishing Fire
2 Manabond
2/3 ?

I was thinking some number of Wastelands against mono U, but leave them in vs Ur(x). I was thinking Crop Rotation as well, but I just want to combo really fast. Loam also doesn't seem too great, since I just want to hold up K Grip forever. What does everyone else do? Also, any advice against Sneak and Show?

So you want to keep Manabond in against Mono U - and cut some number of Loams. I normally cut two Loams. You want to keep Crop Rotation in because Combing is the other part of the equation and Rotation into Ancient Tomb for first turn sphere or Chalice or Thorn is really good. If you run Bojuka Bog I would cut that too. I'm not sure if I like K-Grip and I would bring some in but probably not 4

My Sideboard is structured very differently though

baptist

01-30-2015, 03:24 PM

How would you board against Death and Taxes with the latest list of David Long (see: http://tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=15862&iddeck=118117)?

Based on my limited testing I would board out 1 Punishing Fire, 2 Manabond, 1 wasteland for 4 krosan grip. What do you think is the correct configuration?

I'm testing Courser of Kruphix. Would you board this card in in this matchup?

Rampart

01-30-2015, 03:43 PM

I wouldn't take out the punishing fire against 20+ creature.dec even if it can be blanked. Sometimes it will just win the game on its own.

I would take out two manabond and shave a crop rotation and gamble. I might cut a port for a pithing needle depending on how the first game went.

I like courser in this matchup if you have him. Non-graveyard dependent engines are really good in this matchup. I don't like courser in general though. I prefer Titan if you run creatures in the board.

Rivfader

01-31-2015, 05:08 AM

I would also board in the pithing needle, can be handy for moms, vials, equipment. I'd board out 2 manabond, ghostquarter and glacial chasm for the 4 krosan Grip, and probably Tranquil Thicket for the needle.

What's the opinion on Karakas in this matchup? D&T does have some legendary creatures, but I'm often tempted to board this one out.

baptist

01-31-2015, 02:27 PM

Chatto

02-01-2015, 03:01 PM

Would a Seismic Assault be worth to board in? Most/ all creatures are in range...

Rivfader

02-01-2015, 03:39 PM

Chatto

02-01-2015, 04:06 PM

Yes, definitely, most/all creatures within range, and even without loam, turning each of your 35 lands into creaturekill seems very hard to overcome for D&T. The card wasn't in the latest list of David Long though.

I like to have a alternative wincon as well, Seismic Assault is my choice for the moment. Trying to make room for Prime as well.

Don't know what the reason of it's exclusion for David is. He did make the finals with his last list.

DredgingLoam

02-02-2015, 01:18 AM

Chatto

02-02-2015, 07:21 AM

I wrote a report from SCG Indy and am looking for advice. The link is here if you are interested. http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?29141-Dredging-Loam-for-Fun-and-Profit-(But-no-profit-this-time)

Thanks for the report! Regarding Titania vs Prime:

Titania is GY-depended, whereas Prime can fetch you your lands without use of a GY. Using Titania with Karakas seems really clunky. I will admit you can get a lot of value out of Titania, but I much rather have a second wincon that is the opposite of the main wincon (i.e. Depths/ Stage/ Loam-interaction or Punishing Fire-combo)

DredgingLoam

02-02-2015, 02:24 PM

This is from Jeremiah Rudolph, one of the most accomplished 12-post players.

Mikokoro, Center of the Sea, I came to the simple realization today, beats Infernal tutor, giving you a Crop rotate-able answer to both Past in Flames and hellbent Infernal tutor. The card also can dig you out of a rut when your eye of Ugin has been blasted and you need a post-titan way of winning the game. Since you can cast everything in your deck, them also getting a card is less significant.

Some niche plays with it also:
Candelabra obvious untaps it, so you can go slightly more nutters if needed.
Against Spirit of the Labyrinth, activating it on their turn draws only you a card.
Against Omnishow, you have the ability to either win a lethal clash or draw them out, although this is only realistic with Trinisphere/Sphere effects, a card I am investigating on the main.

While not all of this is relevant to us, the uses against the combo decks and as a way to fight off Surgical/Deathrite, I think that it deserves some testing. Has anyone tried it in Lands before?

Chatto

02-02-2015, 03:03 PM

Why not Horizon Canopy?

Morte

02-02-2015, 04:10 PM

Mikokoro, Center of the Sea can save Life from the Loam and is also an answer to Hellbent Infernal Tutor. But why is it an answer to Past in Flames?

Dice_Box

02-02-2015, 04:21 PM

Personally, I would rather a Thicket. Stopping Tutor is a interesting trick, but the practical application of it is of questionable value and card slots are tight in this deck.

Rivfader

02-02-2015, 04:52 PM

I like the hellbent-trick, but providing green mana is a huge plus from Thicket and Canopy. Also, against storm it's very likely your opponent will attempt to strip your crop rotation from your hand before going hellbent.

Chatto

02-02-2015, 05:56 PM

Mikokoro, Center of the Sea can save Life from the Loam and is also an answer to Hellbent Infernal Tutor. But why is it an answer to Past in Flames?

Aah, the 'each player' and 'hellbend'-interaction. Thanks for pointing out the obvious... :smile:

I don't think it's worth a slot... As Dice_Box said; mana-slots are tight as it is. Well, perhaps as a SB, but I rather would have a Sphere, Thorn or CotV.

DredgingLoam

02-02-2015, 06:07 PM

Mikokoro, Center of the Sea can save Life from the Loam and is also an answer to Hellbent Infernal Tutor. But why is it an answer to Past in Flames?

He says that Crop Rotation answers it, which refers to Bojuka Bog.

Rampart

02-02-2015, 07:11 PM

Personally, I would rather a Thicket. Stopping Tutor is a interesting trick, but the practical application of it is of questionable value and card slots are tight in this deck.

This is the truth. The marginal benefits are questionable at best and it will probably cause more mulligans then blow outs against storm. Historically the best hate cards in Lands deck have been proactive lock spells which work will with the mana denial plan. Those synergy's are the bread and butter of lands.

Using Crop Rotation re-actively against combo just ends up with you losing most of the time and there is no need for two Rotation targets (the other is bog)

Chatto

02-03-2015, 03:36 PM

Will be attending a tournament this weekend and could use some help on my SB. I'm currently playing a pretty stock list, with three Dark Depths, three Crop Rotation and four Punishing Fire main. SB looks like this:

1 Crop Rotation
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Ancient Tomb
1 Chalice of the Void
1 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Seismic Assault
1 Pithing Needle
4 Sphere of Resistance
4 Krosan Grip

Meta is all over the place, so there is no way of knowing what will show up... I expect some SnT, Delver-decks, all kind of Stormbased decks etc etc. Really like to fit in a Primeval Titan, but I'm not sure what to cut. Any suggestions are appreciated :smile:

Rampart

02-03-2015, 03:43 PM

Chatto

02-03-2015, 05:51 PM

You need to pick either Titan or Assault as they fill the same roll in the sideboard (alternative win condition) everything else is pretty stock and should serve you well.

Ok, that makes sense... Thanks!

gwax

02-04-2015, 01:59 AM

Riftstone portal is great if it gets in the yard, but dredging into it is a longshot and otherwise you'd have to play and waste/crop it, so its advantage probably doesn't outweigh that it doesn't produce G.

The real trick is pitching Riftstone Portal to Mox Diamond.

dafrk3in

02-04-2015, 09:16 AM

You need to pick either Titan or Assault as they fill the same roll in the sideboard (alternative win condition) everything else is pretty stock and should serve you well.

That's incorrect. They're both win conditions, but Seismic Assault is primarily good against Blood Moon decks that don't attack your graveyard, and Primeval Titan is good against decks that attack your graveyard and Show and Tell decks.

Rampart

02-04-2015, 09:43 AM

That's incorrect. They're both win conditions, but Seismic Assault is primarily good against Blood Moon decks that don't attack your graveyard, and Primeval Titan is good against decks that attack your graveyard and Show and Tell decks.

No its not, I stated that they are alternative win conditions which they are. I didn't get into the pro/con arguments for both because its pretty much a mute point as the overlap in which you bring those cards in is similar. The rationally for playing titan or assault is different but they do compete for the same space in the sideboard and at that stage it comes down to personal preference. You would still sideboard Titan in against the moon decks and I think you can make a strong argument for bringing in Assault decks that attack your graveyard because of the power of the effect.

Chatto

02-05-2015, 06:50 AM

But in an unknow meta surely there must be a better choice, right? I tend to go with Assault, because it's easier to cast.

To be honest, I really would like to have them both in my SB.

Rivfader

02-05-2015, 07:46 AM

But in an unknow meta surely there must be a better choice, right? I tend to go with Assault, because it's easier to cast.

To be honest, I really would like to have them both in my SB.

Never played with Tomb before, but if you'r looking for a card to shave for Primetime i'd take this one.

Goodluck with the tourny!

dafrk3in

02-05-2015, 08:53 AM

But in an unknow meta surely there must be a better choice, right? I tend to go with Assault, because it's easier to cast.

To be honest, I really would like to have them both in my SB.

For a while now, I've played 3 Primeval Titan (1: possibly switching 1 to a Titania soon to try it out, 2: I know playing 3 Titans is uncommon) and 0 Seismic Assault sideboard. One important thing to keep in mind when playing the deck is that Loaming is far less reliable game two because of anti-graveyard cards. In the many matchups where I expect things like Rest in Peace, I typically side in 2 or 3 Titans. I've never played with Seismic Assault, but I think it's an okay sideboard card which is best against mono-red Blood Moon decks. If you expect a lot of those decks, I would include Seismic Assault. Otherwise, I would lean toward Primeval Titan.

Dice_Box

02-05-2015, 09:18 AM

Rampart

02-05-2015, 09:20 AM

But in an unknow meta surely there must be a better choice, right? I tend to go with Assault, because it's easier to cast.

To be honest, I really would like to have them both in my SB.

Why must there be a better choice? if its an unknown meta then you are assuming your going to be playing a smash up of different archetypes. If that's the case how are you ever going to know what the better choice is, both Titan and Assault are flexible, powerful and a win condition on its own. If you prefer Assault then play that and if you want both cut the Thorn or the Tomb.

Assault is not always easier to cast. Is super easy against a Moon deck, but against things like D&T it can be challenging to support the triple red requirement. I had a pretty long conversation about Assault at GP NJ and your probably are going to need three Taiga's to be able to hit that card on time against some of the more disruptive decks, otherwise it can get stranded in your hand.

I also play with two Titans in my board which I have found to be just extremely powerful against a lot of decks int he format, not just show and tell and Reanimator.

Chatto

02-05-2015, 06:16 PM

I have cut all Assault from my side because I find them harder to cast. 3 Red can be quite the ask at times and when I want to start using it, I often find it stranded in my hand. If the game was to go longer, sure, it would be great but if we are planing for a long game, why not just drop a Titan?

That tri red, it's more painful that it looks.

I am going to start sketching out the skeleton of a primer, if anyone wants to be involved please PM me.

(...)Assault is not always easier to cast. Is super easy against a Moon deck, but against things like D&T it can be challenging to support the triple red requirement. I had a pretty long conversation about Assault at GP NJ and your probably are going to need three Taiga's to be able to hit that card on time against some of the more disruptive decks, otherwise it can get stranded in your hand.

I also play with two Titans in my board which I have found to be just extremely powerful against a lot of decks int he format, not just show and tell and Reanimator.

Well, you guys got me with 'tri red' and 'going to need three Taiga's (...)', because right now I only have two available :smile:

@ dafrk3in: being less vunerabele to GY-hate g2 can be crucial indeed.

@ Rivfader: thanks! Going to need it; decided to take this to GP Lille, and I really have to practise all the ins and outs of this deck :smile:

@ Dice_Box: as much as I would like to help, I'm not that experienced with this deck. Of course I can test-read and be very critical :cool:

dafrk3in

02-06-2015, 08:48 AM

Proposed name for the deck: "No Gamble, No Future." Thoughts?

Dice_Box

02-06-2015, 11:13 AM

Proposed name for the deck: "No Gamble, No Future." Thoughts?

We have enough weird names in Legacy as it is. (Nic Fit...)

Tomorrow night I need to stay up for 18 hours to get my body in check for a string of graveyard shifts. I will start typing in that time as I will be needing something (Other than Coffee) to keep me awake. I would like to make it clear that I do not think myself the greatest pilot of this deck, I just happen to love playing it, have the time free and the inclination to write something. If someone else who is better at writing/better with the deck comes along and wants to take over, I have no issues standing aside. That said, here is what I have in mind now:

Opening:
The history of the deck, the split from RUG lands with the rules change and the improvements made to it over this last year and then moving into the "Why play this over RUG/Jund".

The body:
This is where I would talk about the "Shell" and the common cards that go into it. I think I have this part more or less mapped out fine in my head. This should not be an issue.

The Sideboard:
Due to living in the middle of nowhere where my Meta almost never changes, I tend not to worry about this too much, I will list off common options used and why they are chosen but I am also open to suggestions here.

Matchups:
If I need help anywhere, it is going to be here. I can beat a few strips of Delver with my eyes closed, tackle Elves and hit my head against that wall that is Control without an issue, but I have not seen SnT, 12 Post, the Mirror (Though one of the guys locally plays RUG lands, but that is not the same thing) and other such decks so I have not tested them. I would welcome help in this stage.

Reports:
This is where I want to do something like the TES Primer and grab the reports that people post and put them here.

Videos:
This will likely be the most time consuming part of this. I will only be posting Youtube Vids, I have seen other sites shutdown/stop hosting vids in the past out of the blue and just ending up with dead links. With some small time local events on the site as well as SCG events, I would put them up. I have been lending this deck of late to a young boy who has started coming into the store to play. He loved it so much he built it online so I might ask for him to lend it to me and I will play it online too and Shadowplay the games and post them too if that is needed. He did say it cost him about 200 ish to build and if that is true (Someone online please let me know) I might just get it myself.

Closing:
This is where I would put into place other people's writings if they have something to submit that is wholly their own. (Ie, it is not something that can be quoted and added somewhere else) I would seek to also put a history of updates here as well.

Lastly, I would like anyone that feels like they plan to keep some part of the primer themselves updated to message me too. If you look at the Painter primer, you can see that the first three or four posts are all sub primers from different points of view. Some of them being updated to show different "Schools" of the deck. If this appeals to you you will need to contact me so I can post while you are online so you can have the second or third post in the primer and have this option open to you.

Lastly, thank you to those that have contacted me, I will respond tomorrow. Good night all.

Dice_Box

02-07-2015, 12:53 PM

http://i.imgur.com/706qEWw.png

A history lesson:
Lands in Legacy is an odd deck to look at with a mix of older "Spell lands" and some newer toys, the deck historically has been more heavily banked in a control role, not a Combo one. The early history of Lands is the story of a deck born in the early fires of Ravnica. The deck came to be with the printing of what many now consider to be one of Wizards biggest Mistakes: the Dredge mechanic. But unlike many of the other Dredge cards that went on to spawn an unholy mix of terror and pain that would cause issues for all Eternal formats, one card stood out above the evil, a pure righteous gift that would offer both the fuel and the engine for another new deck. This card was Life from the Loam.

Lands in these early days was very much a control deck with the plan being to lock an opponent out of the game with Land Destruction or recursion of Engineered Explosives. Once control was seized Man lands, Barbarian Ring and even Mindslaver could be used to finish off a game. The issue with this though was that slow and grindy finishes added yet more time to end games that were already slow to start with and should the Lands player find themselves losing the first game and winning the second, there was often little time for a third. But help was on its way.

On the 19th of July 2013 the "Legend Rule" was changed again. This rule saw its most interesting revision to date. Under the old rule, Legendary cards with the same name would destroy one another as a State Based Action. This meant that no chance to respond to one entering the battlefield was ever available and you would lose a permanent should you or your opponent play another that shared a name with the Legend you controlled. But this rule was changed to give you the option to keep one of the cards should another enter play and should an opponent play a card with the same name, it would not affect you at all. This rules change opened up an interaction with two rare lands: Dark Depths and Thespian's Stage.

These two cards together would create a 20/20 Marit Lage for the low cost of only two mana plus these two cards. It turns out that having the option to make a fast 20/20 added some much needed speed to the deck and this combination was quickly added to the lands builds as a finisher. But added change was in the wind. Since now you could quickly and with a limited amount of resources create a gigantic dangerous Black Witch, the Lands deck could drop some of its more controlling elements and focus its resources on efficient resolution of this combo. In doing so it would hone its power down to a single focused point and split away from the RUG Control builds of old. A new deck was born, R/G Combo Lands.

Why should I play this deck over RUG Lands?
That is a personal choice, while Combo lands is putting up better finishes at the moment, I would argue that it is not in fact a strictly better deck than RUG lands and I would ask anyone that was thinking about picking up one of these two decks to test them both and then choose.

Ok Dice, at least tell me the difference between them:
This one I can do. Due to the higher count of Dark Depths and cheaper tutors (gambles and crops compared to intuition and tolaria west) RG lands tend to take the straight combo line much more often (around 50-50% along with the control line, counting both post and pre- sideboard games, while RUG lands plays 80% of the games through control). It means that in general the games will be faster. Also RG Lands is a little more resistant to graveyard hate. The weaknesses being, however, less stability (due to gamble and weaker middle-late games without loam) and less flexibility (the absence of maindeck engineered explosives). It brings some changes in match ups %. I would say, RUG lands are slightly better against control decks (Miracles, DnT) and RG lands are better against faster decks (combo and tempo with delver).

The Deck: (Jointly written with Rivfader (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/member.php?37442-Rivfader).)

The Engine:
These are the gas cards, the cards that fuel the deck and the cards that allow a Lands player to break parity with your opponent. These cards are the ones that either win you the game or let you turn recursive effects into game winning board positions.

Life From the Loam. (4 Copies)
This lovely card is the reason this deck exists, the reason that the deck can keep up with Blue tempo and also restriction on many of the card choices for the deck. On the surface it does not look like much but as a card that lets you recycle lands while also feeding your graveyard and its Dredge ability can often read more like "Draw three cards". It feeds itself while opening to you options at a much more accelerated rate than just drawing a card a turn ever could. The weakness is the cards dependency on the Graveyard and the fact that in a very quick time most of the contents of your hand will be known. But its recursion and the fuel it grants itself makes it one of the most powerful draw spells in the format. Its an easy four of in this deck.

Exploration. (4 Copies)
A must have. Exploration allows you to make an additional land drop each turn (Stacking in kind) thus transforming card advantage of Life from the Loam in board advantage. This is a very powerful effect when you take into consideration the amount of "Spell" lands you have and also the speed advantage extra mana will give you. Play four.

Manabond. (2 Copies)
Just as exploration, this card cheats multiple lands into play. Manabond lets you place all lands in your hand onto the battlefield, while all nonland cards are discarded. Manabond’s effect has the strongest synergy with Life from the Loam, but at the same time it’s drawback can leave you vulnerable if you don't have a Loam, or if your opponent has graveyard hate. This is the reason that manabond often gets sided out game 2.

The Tutors:
The glue that holds a lot of the deck together. While in the modern Legacy format many tutors have found themselves banned, these few are still legal and hold the deck together by letting you fill in the blank spaces you need to in most situations.

Crop Rotation. (3-4 Copies)
"Sac a land, solve target problem". Ok that is slightly hyperbolic, but it is still very close to the truth. With a mix of Spell like effects in many of its targets it can be the Swiss army knife of almost any situation and Life from the Loam can get back whatever card you were forced to sacrifice should you want it back. This card also can help power out the combo since both parts are lands. The card is not without issue though, the sacrifice is a part of it's cost. This means if the card is countered, you lose a land and do not get to fetch. It is a high value target and will often be earmarked for countering. This can be a weakness or a strength as it can also be used to bate out counters if you want another spell to resolve. (Like Gamble.)

Tip: Playing crop rotation at your opponents end of turn for one of the missing combo pieces, and immediately generating the token, will give you a possibly lethal attacker during your following turn.
Tip2: You can use crop rotation to save your life from the loam from grave hate, by getting horizon canopy, activate to draw, replace the draw by dredge. Punishing Fire can be saved in the same way, get Grove and activate Punishing Fire's triggered ability. Crop rotation also saves a single land from being surgical extracted, by getting this copy in the safe zone of the battlefield.
Tip 3: You can use crop rotation defensive versus wasteland. If a land gets wasted, you can sacrifice it in response as part of the casting cost of crop rotation, making the wasteland fizzle while you search for a land to put into play.

Gamble. (4 Copies)
Gamble is an amazing card, since it gets you any card you want, for 1 Red mana. It’s drawback, discarding a card at random is often mitigated by the graveyard recursion the deck is built around. Usually you can consider gamble as life from the loam 5, 6, 7 and 8, but it also gets you Punishing Fire or any land. You can also attempt to gamble for a card that does not recur from the graveyard, such as Exploration, Manabond or a silver bullet sideboard card. You can reduce the risk of losing this card by "Buffering" it against discard by filling your hand with excess lands. While not always successful, it is a trick worthy of trying if you really need an Exploration for example. This is why gamble is an important card versus bad board states or bad matchups postboard.

The Mana:
While this may not seam evident at first, Lands is often a Mana light deck. It does not need much to start and one the ball in rolling it just snowballs. Many of the decks Lands are played for effects that are not Mana related. This means that while the deck may have a land count in the mid to high 30's, less than half of that count is actually useful as a mana source on the opening turns of the game. Luckily, we also have a Mox, as if the deck was not already busted enough as is.

Forest. (1 Copy)
Your one basic in case you find yourself in need of it. Good against Bloodmoon, Wasteland and Back to Basics. Run one always.

Taiga. (2-3 Copies)
The dual land of choice for the deck. While different people have run different amounts of this card, the more accepted amount is normally 2. Some versions run 3 Taiga (instead of a Fetchland), to have a better balance between Fetchlands and fetchable lands. 3 Taiga will also help casting Seismic Assault, a possible sideboard card. I personally run 3 as I also do feel that since you can recur Fetches, having more Targets is beneficial.

Misty Rainforest, Wooded Foothills, Windswept Heath and Verdant Catacombs. (3-4 Copies)
The "Fetchlands" cycle of lands offer a recurrable way to find any Forests or Taiga still left in your library. The deck never runs more than 4 and there are 4 with different names. Split the difference and protect yourself from Pithing Needle and extraction effects.

Grove of The Burnwillows. (4 Copies)
The second half of the Punishing Fire combo and offers both the colours you need. Easy 4 of. The life gain is often of little consequence as you hit in lots of 20 but it is still worth keeping your opponents life total in mind. Every life you give is 3 mana you need to take it away if you end up needing to burn someone out. Also, against faster decks killing them in one hit is important. Something to keep in mind.

Mox Diamond. (4 Copies)
Having 35 maindeck lands makes Mox Diamond an easy inclusion. It’s drawback – discarding a land – really isn't a drawback with Life from the Loam backup. Playing a fetchland and a Mox Diamond as a turn one play is an excellent start if you can follow it up with Life from the Loam. Mox Diamond fixes your mana as the amount of colored mana sources is limited, and provides you with green mana under a Blood Moon. Mox Diamond is also a great tool to play around Daze.

The Control: Burn
Punishing Fire. (3-4 Copies)
Punishing Fire is recurrable burn thanks to it's interaction with Grove of the Burnwillows. It puts an ability on the stack whenever an opponent gains life and you can pay a single Red to return it to your hand. This is useful since Grove supplies you with both these things effectively turning it into "Tap, return Punishing to your hand". Punishing fire is good because it can in all effects be placed into your hand with Loam. Since Loam can get Grove and Grove can get Punishing, this is an effect that sees a lot of play in Lands decks of all stripes and colours.

One life gained will trigger all Punishing Fire's in your Graveyard too meaning that if you tap one Grove but have a Mox open too, you can get back two Punishing not just one. If you think about this as well as the fact that most of legacy’s creatures are within tend to be two toughness or less, having a punishing fire engine going often mean you are in total control. Punishing Fire also deals with Deathrite Shaman which is often the only way a deck can interact with you game one. Lastly it can also be used as a slow way to win the game as you can burn someone out for 1 Life at a cost of 3 mana. This might seem like a steep cost, but it is shockingly affordable once you come to understand how much mana this deck can create.

Tip: You can destroy an active Mother of Runes by burning her during your opponent’s turn (she will tap to protect itself), recur Punishing Fire and burn again during your turn.
Tip 2: You can save Punishing Fire from graveyard hate by tapping a Grove of the Burnwillows for R, when your opponent passes priority. As this is a mana-ability which activates a triggered ability, so you can even do this when you receive priority after your opponent casts extirpate (which prevents spells or effects being played on the stack).

The Control: Mana Denial
Mana Denial is very much at the core of this decks plan, these cards are the ones that execute this strategy and lock down an opponent long enough for you to win.

Wasteland. (4 Copies)
If you do not know what this card does yet, go play a few games of Legacy with an unstable Mana base of Non Basic lands held together by Fetchlands. If you do know what this card does, you are likely playing an unstable Mana base of Non Basic lands held together by Fetchlands. Either way, I am sure you can guess why it is a four of in this deck.

Ghost Quarter. (0-1 Copies)
This card is often a Strip Mine against a non trivial amount of the Legacy meta. Even if a deck runs basics, it is usually 1 basic for each color used to avoid the mana screw that wasteland can offer. Ghost Quarter enables you to destroy these lone basics as well, enabling a total mana control. Against decks with multiple basics, attempting to ghost quarter your opponent out of basics is normally a bad idea. Some decks will bring in Pithing Needle versus wasteland, having a single ghost quarter circumvents this as well.

Rishadan Port. (4 Copies)
Goblins may be a dying deck, but their mana base lives on. Well mostly. Post is the complement to Wasteland in the decks Mana Denial plan. Normally activated in ones upkeep, this card can cut off an opponent from non instant spells with shocking efficiency. With this card, you sometimes beat Storm Decks since they can fetch basics, but never get full use from them. You can also use it to tap down Fetches in response to Brainstorms or Delver triggers forcing a sub optimal play from the opponent.

Tip: Versus a Sensei’s Divining Top, you should use the port-activation during the draw-step. The top-player will use top’s ability in response to the port-activation during upkeep, minimizing the loss of mana while setting up the draw. If you wait for the draw step, your opponent will have to pay anyway for his top, if he wants to set up his draw. After which you additionally port him.
Tip 2: You can get around decks with cards like Swords to Plowshares by tapping down their Plains in their Main phases and then making your Witch at the end of turn.
Tip 3: You can look for opportune moments to tap lands, like after they cast a spell in their first main phase to try and keep them off mana for things like counters, then in the Second Main you can Crop Rotate in a much less dangerous situation.

The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale. (1 Copy)
The final piece in the Mana Denial plan this card gives you a way out to creatures you otherwise can not control. By stripping an opponent of lands this becomes a Wrath effect but often it is just another of the many thumbscrews. It will limit board Development while restricting the amount of spells an opponent can play in a turn. When used with Maze of Ith, this card can become an almost solid roadblock against many decks.
Sadly, this is a very expensive card with no equivalent replacement. If you want to play Lands, you NEED this card regardless of its price. You are just not playing a Lands deck without it.

Tip: Tabernacle will force your opponent to pay for his creatures during upkeep. So wait until he does before porting him. The same goes for playing Punishing Fire, usually it’s a good play to burn creatures during your opponent's upkeep, after he paid the Tabernacle costs for them.
Tip 2: Tabernacle is written in such a way, that the cost of paying 1 for a creature or be destroyed, is the ability of the creature itself. This makes your opponent the owner of the tabernacle triggers, and if he forgets to pay (for example by immediately drawing a card), all his creatures will be destroyed.
Tip 3: Indestructible creatures (as Marit Lage) cannot be destroyed, so you don't have to pay a Tabernacle trigger for them.

The Control: Damage Control
Maze of Ith. (3-4 Copies)
A complement to your already strong anti creature package with Punishing Fire. Maze holds back creatures that you can not burn out due to protection or size. It can also be used to give a kind of Vigilance to your Marit Lage token by untapping the attacking Witch after you dealt damage but while you are still in the attack step.

Glacial Chasm. (1 Copy.)
This card has a unique effect for a land: dodging all damage at the cost of sacrificing a land and a cumulative upkeep of 2 life. Crop rotating into this card dodges lethal alpha strikes or Price of Progress.

Along with Thespian’s Stage and Life From the Loam, you can continuously keep chasm into play. When the upkeep on chasm triggers, you can in response copy the chasm with thespian’s stage, and not pay the upkeep. The original chasm will be sacrificed, while a copied version without counters remains into play. Play a land as well. Next turn you can opt to pay the cumulative upkeep of 2 life, and recur and play the chasm. In this scenario you will lose 2 life every two turns, but remain on 4 lands. If you find an additional Thespians Stage, or an exploration, you will be able to avoid the lifeloss and/or to get more lands into play. Having such a glacial chasm shield into play, can save you from wasteless decks that attack for the win (Elves, dredge) or from decks that win through damage (burn, belcher). A chasm shield prevents you from attacking, in some cases you'll have to resort to Punishing Fire as a win condition.

It is also worthy to note that since the most common removal spell in the format is Swords to Plowshares and your deck creates a Creature with a power of 20, you can often find yourself at a very high lift total. In cases like this, putting a Chasm in play and then just forgetting about it for a few turns can be all the help you need to get ahead in the game. At the very least it should give the the time needed to set up the combo again.

The Combo:
Dark Depths. (2-3 Copies)
A legendary land which comes into play with 10 ice counters the ability to remove a counter for 3 colourless and to generate a Marit Lage when there is no longer any counters on it. Seems easy right? 30 Mana for a 20/20 kitchen sink? Well, add in our next card and things get fun.

Tip: Pithing Needle on Dark Depths prevents you to remove counters by paying for them, but does not prevent the token from being generated, as it’s a triggered ability.
Tip2: Stifle can counter the first triggered ability of Dark Depths, but this ability will immediately check again for counters, and trigger again.
Tip3: Wasteland protects you from wasteland. Your opponent cannot waste one of your combo pieces, because you could in response activate Stage, copy Depths and generate the token. But an opposing wasteland does prevent you from going off. Your opponent might play it in response to the triggered ability of Dark Depths, sacrificing itself and generating the token. This scenario leaves you with no combo pieces. Having your own wasteland breaks this stalemate up, because you can target the opposing wasteland, forcing it to activate it in response or have it destroyed.
Tip4: Evaluate when to make the token. You can create it during your turn, or at your opponent’s end of turn. During your turn, you play around a wasteland your opponent might play (see above). At your opponent’s end of turn, you avoid sorcery speed creature kill, especially in the form of Liliana of the Veil and Jace, the Mind Sculptor.

Thespian’s Stage. (4 Copies)
This land is without a doubt, the most complicated one in the deck to use right. The amount of tricks you can pull off with this card is astounding and it is far more than half of the combo. You can use it to make a copy of any land on the table, regardless of which side it is on. This is useful when you need a Green land and your opponent has a Red or Green fetch on the table. Not only that, Stage can skip upkeep costs on Chasm while never opening yourself to burn, it can make extra copies of Port for additional control, you can clone lands being targeted by Wasteland and keep them around (Like Tabernacle) and it can protect itself from Wasteland by cloning and becoming a Basic land. Without a doubt the most versatile land in the deck.

Tip: You can copy a basic land, to make Thespian’s Stage immune to wasteland. You can even do this in response to the wasteland activation.
Tip 2: You can circumvent pithing needle with a copied stage (a forest for example). If Pithing Needle names Thespian’s Stage, it will not affect the copy since the copy is now a Forest, with a name to match and it retains copy ability. If someone would want to stop the effect, they would need to name Forest and if they did, they could not stop future Stages you play.
Tip 3: You can use Stage on opponent's lands making the Mirror quite a skill testing event since if someone puts a Depths in play, it can become a very tense situation.
Tip 4: You can clone and then use opponents Fetchlands.

The "Spells":
These lands are the ones that hold the rest of the deck together. Each has a unique effect that should be examined and thought over. Some decks run none of these cards, others run large amounts of them. None of them are needed for the core of the deck to run, but all help add something to the deck be it a smoother operation or an effect that your local Meta demands.

Horizon Canopy. (0-1 Copy)
The first of the decks two "Draw" lands. What makes Canopy special is that in the early game it can be used as a pain land offering starting Mana at the cost of a single life. This effect, while only offering one of the two colours we need, is no less useful in a deck that wants to power out green enchantments and spells as early as it can. Canopy also has another effect, that of card drawing. This is extremely useful when playing against decks with Deathrite as their main piece of graveyard interaction. Since you can use Canopy in response to the targeting of Life from the Loam and counter the removal effect of DRS. The drawback this card has over Tranquil Thicket is that it has to be in play to be used, that said, the bonus of having that extra mana source is a very big count in its favour.

Tranquil Thicket. (0-3 Copies)
Another draw engine in this deck. Uncounterable, instant speed and cheap, it is everything you need to save your Life from the Loam should the need arise. Its drawback is that it comes into play tapped. Still, when in the later stages of the game, this card can let you draw and Dredge (If you are looking for something like an Exploration) or Dredge more than one time a turn. While some people cut these for other effects, I personally would always have at least one on hand.

Karakas. (0-1 Copy)
A true "Silver Bullet" in this deck, Karakas offers you an out against Legendary creatures at little cost. Being something you can Crop Rotate into at instant speed helps too. A great inclusion in your 75 and something you should pay great attention to should your Meta call on it for your main.

Bojuka Bog. (0-1 Copy)
No deck in the modern Legacy format is complete without some kind of graveyard hate. Lands is no different. Bog gives you the option of instant speed wiping of a graveyard (When used with Crop Rotation) should someone be trying to do something you disapprove of, this can be anything from Reanimating something you would rather stay dead or wiping your own grave to counter a Surgical Extraction. The card can also be used as a sorcery speed wipe as well should the need arise. While Black is not the most useful colour in this deck, the effect is still strong enough that the card should see play somewhere in your 75.

Riftstone portal and Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth. (0 Copies most of the time)
Two cards that are often suggested or explored. Both offer the ability to make lands that would not otherwise tap do so. These cards like Maze of Ith or Dark Depths can sometimes be of reduced value in some matches or without a companion piece to go with them so the idea to give them another use seems to be valid. Sadly, the system does not work that well most of the time, you do not need Black mana and Portal does not itself tap for Green. Cutting cards for Portal is not that beneficial and starting with it in your opening hand can just be bad. Still, some people do enjoy using these cards and swear by them. I personally would rather use the space for something more proactive.

The Sideboard:
Lands is by no means a perfect deck. It is highly specialised to deal with fair meta's, creature based decks and it has game against some slower control decks. But it has some fairly large weaknesses too. The deck has a reliance on having access to its graveyard, it has little in the way of answers to spells on the stack and it really just does not like combo. Decks like Storm, Omnishow and Reanimator can cause issues while cards like Rest in Peace, Tormod's Crypt and Nihil Spellbomb can cause massive headaches. Grafdigger's Cage might sometimes find its way onto the battlefield, but the card does nothing to the deck.

It is around these weaknesses that the sideboard is built. Placing high priorities on Enchantment and Artifact removal as well as taxing effects that force combo decks to slow down. Other options often consist of alternative ways to deal damage, large creatures or extra lands that did not make the cut in the mainboard. Let's have a look at the most common choices.

Karakas and Bojuka Bog.
If you do not have these cards in the Main, they should be here as they do belong somewhere in the 75.

Dark Depths.
Although this deck is built to control your opponent through lands, having a built-in combo certainly improved the odds of all lands-variants a lot. A postboard commitment to additional combo pieces has 2 upsides. As the combo is independent of the graveyard, an emphasis on the combo counterbalances the grave hate your opponent will board in. So while your opponent undermines the loaming engine, you can reinforce chances of combo winning instead of grinding out.
A second upside is that winning through combo is a lot faster than the long grind. Especially combo decks are difficult matchups because of their speed, and because you do not run Force of Will. So attempting to combo out first is a good game plan versus fast combo decks, as they usually don’t pack hate against your combo (safe from cards like echoing truth)

Ancient Grudge.
Not a bad option against decks that run limited one shot Grave wipe effects. Against a Spellbomb or Crypt you can Gamble for it and then force an activation regardless on if you keep it in hand or not. It will also hit other problem permanents like Pithing Needle, Null Rod and Sword of Fire and Ice. Unfortunately it does not hit Rest in Peace, Counterbalance, Bloodmoon or Leyline of the Void, some of the biggest issues this deck can face. If run, it is good as a one of Silver Bullet but not great in multiples due to its targeting restrictions.

Krosan Grip.
Kills the hate, hard to answer, in our colours and can be cast off a single Basic under Bloodmoon. Really, what's not to like?

Sphere of Resistance and Thorn of Amethyst.
The two cards often used to hate on combo by increasing the costs of the spells. Increasing the cost of Cantrip, Rituals and other gas can cause issues that many decks have a hard time dealing with doubled by the Mana denial plan of the deck. The other bonus of these cards is their colourless nature, allowing ease of casting in the early stages of the game.

Chalice of the Void.
This card is the strongest, and cheapest card available to battle unfavorable matchups and for this reason many lists run at least 1 Chalice of the Void. But unfortunately it’s symmetrical effect will hit you as well when played for 1 shuting down gamble and crop rotation, cards you typically want to use in a combo matchup. Many lists add 1 chalice of this card, gambling for it and playing it for 0 against very fast matchups. Chalice of the Void is also good versus Miracles, where you can afford a slower play, and where chalice for 1 keeps cantrips and Top from being cast.

Choke.
Mana denial for only one colour? Can't be that good. Oh wait, this is Legacy and that colour is Blue, can not think of how useful as to how that can be. Oh and you can tap down those lands with Port? Well sounding better all the time.

Pithing Needle.
Pinpoint targeting of many key cards that can cause issues. From increasing Mana denial by targeting fetches to stopping Vial and Mother, Top, Griselbrand, Sneak Attack, Grindstone, Deathrite Sharman and any Planeswalker. This is a fantastic card and running some number is suggested.

Seismic Assault.
This can be very powerful but also very hard to cast. Three Red mana is a tougher ask than it looks, unless you happen to be under a Blood Moon or you are looking to play longer games. It is also a plan that does not need the Graveyard to kill. This is not the most effective of uses but it should be noted as a possible use but in all honesty, this card is at it's best when you can recur lands, if your meta is full of Grave hate, this is not likely the best option for you.

Primeval Titan.
Primetime is expensive, but when it hits, it’s a bomb. If it hits the table, you'll get to search for two lands that come into play tapped. Depending on the board state these cards could be anything, but chances are high you want it to be combo pieces, because your opponent most likely cannot handle both Primetime and Marit lage. Primeval Titan needs to be answered, or an additional two lands will enter the battlefield during your next turn. This effect is independent of the graveyard, which makes Primeval Titan a very good card when Life from the Loam has been disabled or access to the Graveyard has been removed.

Zuran Orb.
While not a common sight in a build of Lands not running Blue, it is still a very strong card. It gives you the option of sacing Chasm every second turn for a net neutral cost in both life and mana while helping strengthen you against decks with heavy Burn strategies.

The Sideboard: (Black Splash)
Some players enjoy adding a Black splash to their builds, almost always for exclusive access to sideboard options. To do this, one of the "Flex" maindeck slots is changed for a single Bayou. Often these decks will be on the 4 Fetchlands plan too for the increase in access to this extra land. Cards cut for this Bayou are usually Karakas, Thicket, 4th Crop or the 3rd Dark Depths. This opens you to an interesting suite of cards, most of note is Urborg, a card that when it can be used is very powerful. The other options are as follows:

Abrupt Decay.
There is little I can add to the long list of praises heaped upon this card. It is more flexible than Grip and hits most of the same targets. Also, unlike Grip which can get stranded in your hand if there happens to be no target, Decay can be an answer to threats you might otherwise have a hard time dealing with like Goyf and Liliana.

Dark Confidant.
Your maindeck as a total CMC average of just over 0.45. Even if you slightly increase that number by adding in some two cost cards, you still look to average around half a point worth of damage each flip. Not bad odds. After you flip you then have the option to Dredge, useful when you are looking for something you can not Loam back.
Bob shines mostly in Control matches, where after they have likely removed some number of Creature removal you can bring him in and bury them under card advantage. If the opponent is forced to use removal such as Sword to Plowshares to stop your Confidant, that puts you ahead when you later start making Flying Witches.

Raven's Crime.
A very good option mostly seen in Jund Depths, a good card that gives you an added level of control. Spots are tight though and this card often does not make the cut as this deck can be too fast to need it.

Worm Harvest.
Another possible win condition. With it you can flood the board with tokens. These days a relic of the past as once it was quite popular as a faster way to speed up the clock.

Matchups:
Patriot Delver:
No interference pre board with the loam engine (play around Daze and Spell Pierce for resolving exploration). They run only non basics, which makes the mana denial plan very strong. Punishing Fire deals with Delver and maze with batterskull. Avoid having them play an (equipped) TNN with mana denial, at which point you will have to race them, or slow them down with Chasm. They have swords to plowshares to deal with your combo plan, you should only resort to the combo when they're tapped out of white mana, or if you have recursion for the combo pieces and you can afford being set back 2 lands. Swords to plowshares gives you 20 life, which helps you if you need to race them. Look out for a fast Delver deployment with disruptive backup along with burn.
Keycards: accelerated waste lock (wasteland, life from the loam, exploration).
They will side in: Rest in Peace, meddling mage, Submerge
Side in: 4x Krosan Grip, 1x Dark Depths, Choke
Side out: 2x Manabond, Karakas, Bojuka Bog, Tranquil Thicket

Postboard is harder, if they have Meddling Mage, it can be hard to deal with (they will name Punishing Fire or Loam). Go for the mana denial plan with Krosan Grip Backup versus Rest in Peace.

RUG Delver:
No interference pre board with the loam engine (play around Daze and Spell Pierce for resolving exploration). They run only non basics, which makes the mana denial plan very strong. Punishing Fire deals with delver and maze with Tarmogoyf. Nimble Mongoose can race you, Bojuka Bog and Chasm can slow them down. They have no interference with your combo plan, so you can combo when the opportunity presents itself. Look out for a fast delver deployment with disruptive backup (stifle!) along with burn.
Keycards: accelerated waste lock (wasteland, life from the loam, exploration),Combo Pieces
They will side in: possibly Surgical Extraction Submerge, Pithing Needle
Side in: 1x Dark Depths, Choke
Side out: Karakas, possibly Rishadan port

Postboard your mana denial plan is again very strong, watch out for extraction. The Combo Plan is also strong, attempt to avoid having a forest on the battlefield (crop rotation, wasteland) when comboing to dodge Submerge.

Death and Taxes:
No interference pre board with the loam engine. They run many basics, which makes the mana denial plan not so strong. Attempt to delay them with Rishadan Port. Punishing Fire deals with all their threats, and is your strongest gameplan. Destroy an active mom by burning during your opponents turn and again during your turn. Avoid having Sword of Fire and Ice equipped by burning the creature in response to sorcery speed equipping. THey have a strong mana denial plan of their own, with wasteland, Rishadan Port, Thalia, Phyrexian Revoker (Mox), Aven Mindcensor (fetchlands), so keep a hand with multiple mana sources. They have swords to plowshares, Flickerwisp (vial on 3) and up to 3 Karakas to deal with your combo plan, you should only resort to the combo when they're tapped out of white mana, or if you have recursion for the combo pieces and you can afford being set back 2 lands. Besides Stoneforge Mystic, they don't have card advantage. So if you can stabilize with Punishing Fire and Maze of Ith, you will take over. Tabernacle keeps their number of creatures in check, with vial dodging you mana denial plan.
Keycards: Punishing Grove
They will side in: Rest in Peace, Enlightened Tutor, Cataclysm
Side in: 4x Krosan Grip, 1x Dark Depths, Pithing Needle, Primetime, Assault
Side out: Bojuka Bog, Ghost Quarter, Tranquil Thicket, Manabond, possibly Glacial Chasm

Postboard they will go for Rest in Peace, you have Krosan Grip to deal with it. Krosan Grips can handle Vials, Batterskull, Sword of Fire and Ice as well. Needle can deal with vials, mom, equipment

(Dark) Maverick:
They have Scavenging Ooze or Deathrite Shaman through Green sun's Zenith to interfere pre board with the loam engine. They probably run a basic for each color (2-3), which makes the mana denial plan decent if you can handle Deathrite Shaman through Punishing Fire. Destroy an active mom by burning during your opponents turn and again during your turn. If they get a Knight of the Reliquary online, they can interfere with all your gameplans. Knight gets big and can handle maze by fetching wasteland, handles the token by getting Karakas, removes the graveyard with Bog. Crop rotating for Bojuka Bog will reduce Knight to punishable sizes. They have swords to plowshares to deal with your combo plan, you should only resort to the combo when they're tapped out of white mana, or if you have recursion for the combo pieces and you can afford being set back 2 lands.
Keycards: Punishing Grove for DRS, backed up with mana denial

They will side in: Surgical Extraction, Pithing Needle
Side in: 1x Dark Depths, Primetime, Krosan Grip (Assault will probably be decayed or targeted by Pridemage, might be okay)
Side out: Karakas, manabond, Chasm

Postboard watch out for extraction, Primetime has a great impact versus this midrange matchup.

Burn:
Versus burn you only have two gameplans: a fast combo plan or hiding behind an eternal chasm while setting up a Punishing Fire kill (or have your opponent burn himself to death through Sulfuric Vortex). Dodge Price of Progress by crop rotating in chasm or in the combo.
Keycards: Combo Pieces, accelerators, Crop Rotation (chasm or combo pieces), loam for eternal chasm setup.
They will side in: all price of progresses, if they weren't already main decked as well as Ensnaring Bridge or Pithing Needle if they have them.
Side in: 2x Dark Depths, possibly chalices (I personally don't board in chalice)
Side out: Bojuka Bog, Tabernacle, Ghost Quarter, Karakas

Infect:
No interference pre board with the loam engine (play around Daze and Spell Pierce for resolving exploration). They run only 1 forest, which makes the mana denial plan very strong. Tabernacle and Maze of Ith are also very strong. Punishing Fire deals with all their creatures (they will protect them with Invigorate and Vines of Vastwood). They have no interference with your combo plan, so you can combo when the opportunity presents itself. Look out for a possible turn two alpha strike, especially since Vines of Vastwood can protect the creature from targeted effects (maze). Look out for an end of turn crop rotation into Inkmoth Nexus or their single Wasteland should they need it. Sandbagging a Crop Rotation into chasm is a good backup plan.
Keycards: Mana Denial, Punishing Grove, Maze of Ith, Tabernacle, Crop Rotation.
They will side in: Surgical Extraction, Submerge, Pithing Needle, Karakas, Bojuka Bog
Side in: 2x Dark Depths, Krosan Grips for destroying Pithing needles on Stage/Maze and Inkmoth Nexus.
Side out: Karakas, Bojuka Bog and 2 Manabond

Postboard watch out for extraction, submerge, Karakas, Bojuka Bog. All your maindeck strategies are very strong against them, watch out for an alpha strike out of nowhere.

MUD:
No interference pre board with the loam engine. They run only non basics, which makes the mana denial plan very strong, especially since they need this manabase and metalworker to ramp into expensive artifacts. Punishing Fire deals with metalworker. Keep them from obtaining the mana they need to take the game over. They have Trinisphere and Chalice, Chalice on 1 is annoying but only chalice on 2 will really harm you. You can lock up a MUD player behind his own Trinisphere with a recurring wasteland. They have no interference with your combo plan as long as you keep their mana resources low, so you can combo when the opportunity presents itself.
They will side in: Pithing Needle, Tormod's Crypt, perhaps Ensnaring Bridge or Tsabo's web
Side in: 1 Dark Depths, 4 Krosan Grip, Pithing Needle
Side out: Karakas, Bojuka Bog, manabond, Tranquil Thicket
Keycards: (accelerated) Wasteland lock, Punishing Fire for metalworker

Postboard they don't really have that much against you, you have Krosan Grip though.

The Hate:
Combo Lands is quite a specialised deck that leans on a large number of Non Basic lands and a suite of unusual permanentes to execute it's game plan. This does have the effect of opening it up to some very unusual hate that is not often found elsewhere. Cards like Back to Basics, Blood Moon, Price of Progress and Tsabo's Web can be lethal against you. Here we will examine some of these cards in detail and what is the best plan against them.

Graveyard Hate:
Grave hate can be narrowed down to three categories, Single shot, Continuous and Pin Point. Each offers its own unique challenge and some are easier to deal with than others.

Single shot describes the one shot, Grave wipe cards that are most commonly found in Artifacts. These are also likely the most common form of Grave hate you will see leveled against you. The most common options tend to be: Tormod's Crypt, Relic of Progenitus and Nihil Spellbomb. Defeating these cards comes down to either having removal or making your graveyard look too dangerous to handle and forcing their hand. These can also be played around by simply not using your Graveyard, something you can do with this deck.

Continuous describes a group of cards that, once played, have a contentious effect on the Grave. The two most common are Rest in Peace and Leyline of the Void. There are also some other unusual choices like Yixlid Jailer and Dryad Militant. Unfortunately, removal is the only option other than just accepting that your Grave has been cut off. If you expect one of the two Enchantments, bring in hate. You will need it.

Pin Point in my view the most obnoxious class of hate. These cards are normally Instant speed spells or Abilities that are cast from hand or Creatures that have activated effects that utilise the Grave as a fuel source for their own effects. The more common cards in this list include Surgical Extraction, Extirpate, Deathrite Shaman, Scavenging Ooze and to a limited point, Relic of Progenitus. A rare option that sometimes comes up is Faerie Macabre. Seen in older Burn lists, this card sees little play these days, but due to the possibility that someone with an older Burn lise might walk into your store I will list it for complication.

Playing around these cards is really the only option, meaning that head of time you need to recognise the decks that are likely to use them and plan ahead. Saving a Loam can be done by holding a Tranquil Thicket to cycle in response and Punishing Fire can be saved by tapping Grove and paying for the trigger it creates. Note that Extirpate's Split Second effect does not stop you from getting back Punishing fire since Grove is a mana ability, it can be activated without use of the stack but it will just hose Loam. Sometimes they just have an out and you will have to deal with that.

Land Hate:
Land hate is a part of Legacy, a check that keeps the format balanced and rotating, it is also a major part of this decks own plan. It is only fitting then that what we use on others would also be the sword that is often brought to bear against us. From single targeted effects to a range of wide and painful effects that can outright hose this deck, land hate offers a look into a mixed bag on one of the more interesting if now not often printed parts of this games history. The cards most commonly thought of when someone thinks about land hate in legacy is (Well if you have been around awhile) Sinkhole, Stone Rain and Wasteland. Two of these cards no longer seeing much if any play and the other a cornerstone of the Format. There are others though, mostly Artifacts and Enchantments that can make your life hard and it is these cards I wish to explore here.

Back to Basics to me have some of the most spot on flavour text in the game, some people own all the Duals others hose them for it. What this card means for us often is that we will only ever untap once until we find hate. A smart player will wait for you to tap out and then drop it, forcing you to make several land drops before you can remove the card. As a good rule of thumb, Basics are better than Duals unless you need that extra colour now. This card will slow you down, but it does not kill you. I have been under no pressure, had this card land and then just drawn into the combo and killed the player with this card. This is a rare event though and this card spells bad news and needs to be dealt with as soon as you can.

Blood Moon is just evil. If you think someone is running this, fetch your basic as soon as you can and dig for hate. I would prioritise this over the combo because often decks with Blood Moon can can drop it on their first turn. You can gamble and go for the kill, just do not expect it will pay off that often against a Painter or Stompy deck.

Price of Progress is painful as it comes and Burn decks will almost always be running it. It is also found in the sideboards of U/R Delver lists, making them a touch on the unfun side too. Your outs to this card come down to three options, first you can Crop rotate into a Chasm to prevent the damage, the second option is that of Zuran Orb and the last choice is to Wasteland your own lands. Really not a great amount of fun. Burn is a hard match, sometimes you just have to grin and bear it.

Tsabo's Web is a colourless Back to Basics that really only hits you. Sounds great does it not? Luckily, it misses many of your mana sources and lets you stay in the game but it locks out many of your utility lands. It is seeing an uptick in play of late thanks to Lands strong placing in the format and I would say you should expect to see this card at larger events.

Decklists:

Artifacts
4 Mox Diamond

Spells
4 Life from the Loam
4 Gamble
3-4 Crop Rotation
3-4 Punishing Fire

Enchantments
4 Exploration
2 Manabond

Mana Lands
1 Forest
2-3 Taiga
0-1 Misty Rainforest
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
4 Grove of the Burnwillows

Mana Denial
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
4 Rishadan Port
4 Wasteland
1 Ghost Quarter

Combo
4 Thespian's Stage
3 Dark Depths

Draw
1-2 Tranquil Thicket
1 Horizon Canopy

Utility
3-4 Maze of Ith
1 Glacial Chasm
0-1 Bojuka Bog
0-1 Karakas

Sideboard
0-1 Bojuka Bog
0-1 Dark Depths
0-1 Karakas
0-2 Primeval Titan
4 Krosan Grip
4 Sphere of Resistance
2 Chalice of the Void
2 Choke
0-1 Seismic Assault

1 Forest
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Glacial Chasm
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Horizon Canopy
3 Maze of Ith
1 Misty Rainforest
4 Rishadan Port
2 Taiga
4 Thespian's Stage
2 Tranquil Thicket
1 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
1 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Karakas
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
2 Dark Depths

4 Mox Diamond
4 Exploration
2 Manabond
4 Crop Rotation
3 Punishing Fire
4 Gamble
4 Life from the Loam

Sideboard
1 Chalice of the Void
1 Pithing Needle
4 Sphere of Resistance
1 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Choke
4 Krosan Grip
1 Bojuka Bog
2 Dark Depths

Other Resources:
Podcasts:
If you want to know the basics, but you are more of an auditory learner, try Legacy Breakfast's two part podcast (https://legacybreakfast.wordpress.com/2015/02/08/episode-49-deck-tech-pt1-rg-combo-lands/) on this build of lands.

Videos:
Starcitygames Open Series: Baltimore
25th - 26th January 2014

SCGBALT - Legacy - Round 9 - Kurt Spiess vs Jesse Hatfield
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwdWj_RAUew

SCGBALT - Legacy - Semifinals - Jeremy Hsu vs Kurt Spiess
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rv9B3vs7Sag

SCGBALT - Legacy - Finals - Kurt Spiess vs Daryl Ayers
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdeQIuF-49M

Starcitygames Invitational: Charlotte
28th - 30th March 2014

SCGINVI - Invitational - Round 11 - Kurt Spiess vs Chris Yarbough
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ciC7HlXX7SA

Starcitygames Invitational: Columbus
13th - 15th June 2014

SCGINVI - Invitational - Round 7 - Gerry Thompson vs Ben Friedman
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GG1ICUvCMvY

Starcitygames Open Series: Minneapolis
25th - 26th October 2014

SCGMINN - Legacy - Round 5 - Blake Patraw vs Nick Leaf
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cz3qkkEDuIQ

SCGMINN - Legacy - Quarterfinals - Nick Leaf vs Craig Spitzer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNFwOdU3KgY

Starcitygames Open Series: Richmond
22nd - 23rd November 2014

SCGRICH - Legacy - Round 5 - Julian Knab vs David Long
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKwMWZwr9v4

SCGRICH - Legacy - Round 9 - Joe Lossett vs Daniel Lawver
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SW84Z_qBmHk

SCGRICH - Legacy - Quarterfinals - Marc Konig vs David Long
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anuSJ9Jzzbs

Starcitygames Open Series: Atlanta
29th - 30th November 2014

SCGATL - Legacy - Round 9 - Chris Andersen vs Jack Fogle
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7ucy5mPVbY

Starcitygames Open Series: Philadelphia
10th - 11th January 2015

SCGPHILLY - Legacy - Round 14 - Rudy Briksza vs David Long
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2581FQVnOs

Sample Hands:
Hand one:
Maze of Ith, Gamble, Misty Rainforest, Crop Rotation, Horizon Canopy, Taiga, Grove of the Burnwillows.

Lets analyze what we have here. Two tutors, some Creature control, a Draw land and lots of fuel. Seams to have it all yes? Well no. What this hand has is a plan, what it lacks is the speed to pull it off. While it is tempting, this is not a hand I would keep. For example, would you keep this hand if the Gamble was a Loam and the Rotation was gone? At that point all you have is mana and no plan and that is a very real risk when you Gamble for Loam. Granted, you can Rotate for a combo piece and then gamble for the other, but it too is a risk. You can do better on 6.

Down to Six:
Punishing Fire, Horizon Canopy, Grove of the Burnwillows, Life from the Loam, Wasteland, Maze of Ith.

So no tutors but a much better hand. While the last hand had a plan that was a long shot on the chance of a quick combo, this one is playing the long game. You can hold off most creature decks, abid slowly, with this hand. Let's say we are playing against someone who does not know what we are on and with that, form a plan. First, what Land do we want to play first? Due to the two mana cost spells, Maze is not an option. That leaves us with Grove, Canopy and Wasteland. Wasteland I think is the worst of these options, you want to bait someone into the card, not advertise you have it. You are hoping to be able to slow them down with a well timed hit to the mana base. That leaves Grove and Canopy.

Now we have to ask the question "What does each land tell our opponent?" Canopy makes us look like Death and Taxes on a slow hand, Grove means we will likely be put on Jund or Lands but is also transmits that our deck is playing Punishing Fire, this can edit their own moves. Also, of these two cards, I would personally rather lose Canopy to a Wasteland. Since they both make green, I think that is the best choice for an opening land drop.

Play Horizon canopy, Pass.

Our opponent plays a Misty, cracks Misty into Underground Sea and then plays Deathrite. We can shorten the list of decks we are playing against to BUG and Deathblade. This means that Punishing Fire is by far the greatest card in our hand right now and Wasteland is not too bad if we can remove that Deathrite from the table. The plan in my mind would be to drop the Grove, take a point off the Canopy, give them a point off the Grove and burn the DRS.

Turn two, card drawn: Tranquil Thicket.
Our draw step does nothing to change our plan, lay the Grove and go for the DRS with your burn.

Grove, Punishing Fire on the DRS, pass.

Our opponent plays a Bayou, casts a Goyf and passes back. So now we really have to options, you can Maze them or you can play Wasteland. There is no pressing need to Dredge right now and in my view drawing is more useful than Dredging right now.

Turn three, card drawn: Crop Rotation.
Not a bad pull that one, time to examine our choices. What does Rotation get us right now? I would argue not a lot, but it is a good option for later. So lay down the Mase or the Wasteland? With Maze we stop a hit from the Gofy, with Waste we put them back a turn. One could argue that we can afford to take the hit right now, the chance of causing issues with their mana overweighs stopping a 3 power Goyf this turn. So the question becomes; what do we Waste? Your options are Underground Sea and Bayou, meaning they are likely on BUG. I think the most important thing to do in this situation would be to stop them from fixing their mana. If they can not make another drop from their hand they will want to use cantrips to solve the issue. My target would be Underground Sea for this reason.

Wasteland, waste the Underground.

So now we still have two mana open and we have three choices, we can Loam and get back the Wasteland or we can return the Punishing Fire to our hand and Cycle the Thicket. The last option is sac the Canopy, a choice I feel is weakest. As it was last turn, I feel the play is not to Loam. Again we have more options off the draw and if we Cycle the Thicket, we give ourselves another target for the Loam.

Pass the turn.

Our opponent attacks, we take the damage and then he casts Thoughtseize. Change of plans then. Right now the only two targets he has are Loam and Rotation. It is best to cast Rotation and leave him only the Loam as a target, but what do we sacrifice? Right now, in my opinion the best land to sacrifice is the Canopy. It is only giving us one of our colours and it hurts us. The question is what do we go for? I think these are the best options: The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale, Wasteland, Bojuka Bog or the Basic Forest.

Bog in interesting, but right now of no use, this is in my mind the least useful of the options. Tabernacle will turn the thumbscrews, but it does not produce mana and next turn we would like to cast Loam. That said we have two chances to do so with the Thicket in hand, so it is an option. Wasteland lets us take them to zero or one land dependent on if they can play one in their second main and Forest leaves us Wasteland prof. What would you do? I leave that to you.

Hand two:

Credits:
This primer was a joint effort with help from a team of helpful people, I would like to thank the following for their help:

door: Proofreading, Matchup analysis and useful suggestions.
Lt. Quattro: Compiling and formatting the Video section.
Rivfader: Jointly writing the Card analysis, Matchup analysis, the Banner at the top of the Primer and no small amount of useful suggestions.

Chatto

02-07-2015, 03:03 PM

Wauw! Nice going Dice_Box!

Dice_Box

02-07-2015, 03:15 PM

I need to make this clear and will make it more pronounced in a future update, this is not all my writing, a non insignificant amount is shared by Rivfader who also deserves a large amount of credit.

Rivfader

02-07-2015, 04:22 PM

I like how you used the texts i've sent! And the fact that the primer is at last progressing.

EDIT: Just one thing - I think this threads name 'RG Combo Lands' wasn't properly chosen from the very start. Ofcourse there's the combo-aspect, but mentioning combo in this decks name reminds me of Turbo Depths / Maritocracy. Might be subjective, but I prefer 'RG Lands'.

supremePINEAPPLE

02-07-2015, 06:00 PM

Great job so far guys!

DredgingLoam

02-07-2015, 08:07 PM

Looking awesome. I also agree with the name being RG Lands. It is the only name that has stuck and is used in most sites when explaining the deck. If we want to rename the deck, we potentially could, but there would need to be a reason and a name that most could agree on. I called it Green-Red Control at my last SCG event

Chatto

02-08-2015, 04:37 AM

Yesterday, I was called 'that Lands-guy', after which they would analyse a RUG Lands- decklist. I had to explain I played RG Lands. I would also like to bring in/ opt for RG Lands, or 'RGL' for short.

Dice_Box

02-08-2015, 05:51 AM

... I guess I am not aloud to call it combo lands then... Oh well.

Chatto

02-08-2015, 06:56 AM

(...)
Matchups:
If I need help anywhere, it is going to be here. I can beat a few strips of Delver with my eyes closed, tackle Elves and hit my head against that wall that is Control without an issue, but I have not seen SnT, 12 Post, the Mirror (Though one of the guys locally plays RUG lands, but that is not the same thing) and other such decks so I have not tested them. I would welcome help in this stage.

(...)

Played against SnT yesterday, it was horrible... Game one I won pretty easy. Game two and three were a nightmare: I assembled the combo, but drew none of my SB-cards (i.e. K-Grip, and Spheres) against Blood Moon, and died by the hand of Emrakul and Griselbrand.

Against Elves I was very unfortunate to never draw Crop Rotation or Tabernacle...

Guess it would be easy, but my deck failed on me during the main-event and the first side event.

During the second side-event I won against Miracles and DnT, splitting in the finals. That guy was also on DnT and we played just for fun, but after almost nine hours of Magic I was tired and lost 1-2.

Dice_Box

02-08-2015, 11:36 AM

OK, slight change of plans. I am going to finish the write up and post it without Decklists and without Vids. The reason for that is I can only work on this right now though a tethered laptop and I do not have the data ballance left to go digging for these things. I have Friday off and will have access to my home PC at that point. Since I will no longer have to worry about data limits since I will be on my home connection I will then find the external information I am looking for and then add it to the Primer.

I am looking for any cards I may have missed from the Maindeck writeup, but I think I have covered them all. I am going to start on the Sideboard in a bit and then he matchups. I have had some good matchup analysis sent to me and I may be just wholesale posting it since I am unsure I really have anything better to add.

I would like to ask something else. I can find no small amount of lists and placements online with ease using SGC, TCdecks and the like. If any of you from the EU have a site you think demonstrates the EU meta better than The Council, TC or SCG please let me know.

Chiptoon

02-08-2015, 01:38 PM

Nice work on the primer guys. If we're talking about names I'm going to throw in the one I've been using lately, Dirty Harry, because I do feel lucky...most of the time. Gamble is a swingy card but when it's good it almost feels like I'm cheating.

Dice_Box

02-08-2015, 06:54 PM

OK, it is well past bed time for me. I thank Lt. Quattro for the Vid list, without his help I would not have stayed up to finish this now. He made my life a ton easier. Anyway, I submit this to you all as a possible primer. Please let me know if you see anything you disagree with. Be that errors in my spelling to errors in my judgment. Anyway, morning all, it's near on 10 am, Tony Abbott may have helped keep me up but now it is time for me to call it a day.

Hope to see your suggestions this afternoon.

gigapatrick

02-08-2015, 07:43 PM

First off, thank you so much, Dice Box and Rivfader and whoever else wrote stuff for the primer. What you guys have put together is fantastic. For a long time, I thought about offering to write a primer since I like to write--but I'm not a pro player and my results with the deck are only just above .500. So thanks a bunch.

As for grammatical errors: in one instance, you wrote the word "parody" (which is a noun that denotes, usually, a work of literature, art, or film designed to make fun of, and thereby reveal the faults of, another work), instead of the word "parity" (which means balance). In another instance, you wrote "ombo" instead of "combo." Sorry. I know everyone hates the dick who points stuff like this out, but you did ask for proofreading help. I'll read the primer again and let you know if I see any other mishaps or typos.

Again, thanks for the awesome primer.

dragonwisdom

02-08-2015, 09:07 PM

I think you would see this deck more often, but Tabernacle is a barrier. Could you play this deck without it and what would you put in its place.

Chatto

02-09-2015, 02:05 AM

Without a Tavernacle this deck would be suboptimal: to my knowledge, there is no real substitute for Tabernacle.

door

02-09-2015, 09:19 AM

Dice_Box, a very nice primer, thank you! I pm'ed you some comments, that might help.

Raystar

02-09-2015, 09:51 AM

Dice_Box, a very nice primer, thank you! I pm'ed you some comments, that might help.

Very good job guys!! Well done!

Dice_Box

02-09-2015, 04:17 PM

Dice_Box, a very nice primer, thank you! I pm'ed you some comments, that might help.

Added the tips from the first message, I will get onto the second one when I get home.

Dice_Box

02-10-2015, 05:14 AM

I would like to say, off topic a little, the Stu's from LB podcast (Found here: https://legacybreakfast.wordpress.com/ ) have done part one of their planed two part epp on Lands. Feel free to shoot them a message with scenarios you have to run them through their paces next episode.

They have also given me permission to add the cast to the primer. I would give them a listen because while they might not say anything about the deck you did not already know, at least they will keep you entertained.

https://legacybreakfast.files.wordpress.com/2015/02/podcast-49.mp3

supremePINEAPPLE

02-10-2015, 10:41 AM

I'll recommend the podcast as well. Listening to it at the moment and it's great. I have to think about the upkeep/draw step priority passing they were talking about since I always do that sloppily in paper.

Polishguy00

02-10-2015, 12:11 PM

That podcast is fantastic and am glad it got mentioned here or I might have missed out. Now following them on Twitter.

There are some great tips and reminders throughout the audio that will help newer players of the deck (me) as well others picking it up again along with people looking to beat it. Just well done, gents.

Dice_Box

02-10-2015, 04:26 PM

Trying to update the sample hand section. Hit a roadblock due to an Image limit per post. Sample hands will have to be in text form.

Anen

02-10-2015, 05:58 PM

Good job on the primer!

You might want to creare a new thread so that it is not lost at a random page number. Or I could update first post for you if you want to keep the first 10 pages in the same thread. But I am not going to update OP every couple weeks. Your choice !

Dice_Box

02-10-2015, 06:07 PM

Oh right now I am just editing it and using the post as a way for people to advise me on changes they think need to be made. When it is ready I will start a new thread with it and post it in the Established section where it belongs.

Chatto

02-11-2015, 12:54 AM

Two suggestions for the SB:

- Ray of Revelation; flashback to kill a enchantment. If I'm not mistaken also useable in reaction on a RiP being cast.
- Ancient Tomb; acceleration for combo and lockpieces.

Dice_Box

02-11-2015, 02:37 AM

Ray can not be flashed in response to a RIP being cast, you can use it in response to the grave wipe trigger. I will add it tomorrow.

Chatto

02-11-2015, 02:51 AM

Ray can not be flashed in response to a RIP being cast, you can use it in response to the grave wipe trigger. I will add it tomorrow.

Aah ok sorry, that is what I meant, but wasn't to sure how to write it down.

Griselpuff

02-11-2015, 09:51 AM

Out of curiosity, what do people think the bad match-ups are?

High Tide, OmniTell, Reanimator (if they go for Tidespout), Miracles?

Rampart

02-11-2015, 10:18 AM

Out of curiosity, what do people think the bad match-ups are?

High Tide, OmniTell, Reanimator (if they go for Tidespout), Miracles?

its High Tide/Reset, OmniTell. Storm, Belcher, and Sneak and Show

Reanimator is pretty good and Miracles/Death and Taxes are ok

DredgingLoam

02-11-2015, 11:39 AM

its High Tide/Reset, OmniTell. Storm, Belcher, and Sneak and Show

Reanimator is pretty good and Miracles/Death and Taxes are ok

I was doing some testing vs Storm and my configuration was doing pretty well post board. I boarded in 1x Ancient Tomb, 2x Thorn of Amethyst, 4x Sphere of Resistance, 1x Dark Depths, 1x Bojuka Bog. I lost g1 twice, but post-board I think I went 4-1 or something like that.

Rampart

02-11-2015, 03:06 PM

I was doing some testing vs Storm and my configuration was doing pretty well post board. I boarded in 1x Ancient Tomb, 2x Thorn of Amethyst, 4x Sphere of Resistance, 1x Dark Depths, 1x Bojuka Bog. I lost g1 twice, but post-board I think I went 4-1 or something like that.

I think its a better match up then the Mono-Blue Combo Decks and Sneak and Show but I still don't think its a good one. You pretty much just lose game one and then they have two games to still another game win to take the match. I'm personally 8-3 (19-11) against Storm decks in tournament matches which shows that its not bad, but there a lot a variables for this matchup which just make it poor.

Dice_Box

02-13-2015, 02:56 PM

http://i.imgur.com/706qEWw.png

A history lesson:
Lands in Legacy is an odd deck to look at with a mix of older "Spell lands" and some newer toys, the deck historically has been more heavily banked in a control role, not a Combo one. The early history of Lands is the story of a deck born in the early fires of Ravnica. The deck came to be with the printing of what many now consider to be one of Wizards biggest Mistakes: the Dredge mechanic. But unlike many of the other Dredge cards that went on to spawn an unholy mix of terror and pain that would cause issues for all Eternal formats, one card stood out above the evil, a pure righteous gift that would offer both the fuel and the engine for another new deck. This card was Life from the Loam.

Lands in these early days was very much a control deck with the plan being to lock an opponent out of the game with Land Destruction or recursion of Engineered Explosives. Once control was seized Man lands, Barbarian Ring and even Mindslaver could be used to finish off a game. The issue with this though was that slow and grindy finishes added yet more time to end games that were already slow to start with and should the Lands player find themselves losing the first game and winning the second, there was often little time for a third. But help was on its way.

On the 19th of July 2013 the "Legend Rule" was changed again. This rule saw its most interesting revision to date. Under the old rule, Legendary cards with the same name would destroy one another as a State Based Action. This meant that no chance to respond to one entering the battlefield was ever available and you would lose a permanent should you or your opponent play another that shared a name with the Legend you controlled. But this rule was changed to give you the option to keep one of the cards should another enter play and should an opponent play a card with the same name, it would not affect you at all. This rules change opened up an interaction with two rare lands: Dark Depths and Thespian's Stage.

These two cards together would create a 20/20 Marit Lage for the low cost of only two mana plus these two cards. It turns out that having the option to make a fast 20/20 added some much needed speed to the deck and this combination was quickly added to the lands builds as a finisher. But added change was in the wind. Since now you could quickly and with a limited amount of resources create a gigantic dangerous Black Witch, the Lands deck could drop some of its more controlling elements and focus its resources on efficient resolution of this combo. In doing so it would hone its power down to a single focused point and split away from the RUG Control builds of old. A new deck was born, R/G Combo Lands.

Why should I play this deck over RUG Lands?
That is a personal choice, while Combo lands is putting up better finishes at the moment, I would argue that it is not in fact a strictly better deck than RUG lands and I would ask anyone that was thinking about picking up one of these two decks to test them both and then choose.

Ok Dice, at least tell me the difference between them:
This one I can do. Due to the higher count of Dark Depths and cheaper tutors (gambles and crops compared to intuition and tolaria west) RG lands tend to take the straight combo line much more often (around 50-50% along with the control line, counting both post and pre- sideboard games, while RUG lands plays 80% of the games through control). It means that in general the games will be faster. Also RG Lands is a little more resistant to graveyard hate. The weaknesses being, however, less stability (due to gamble and weaker middle-late games without loam) and less flexibility (the absence of maindeck engineered explosives). It brings some changes in match ups %. I would say, RUG lands are slightly better against control decks (Miracles, DnT) and RG lands are better against faster decks (combo and tempo with delver).

The Deck: (Jointly written with Rivfader (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/member.php?37442-Rivfader).)

The Engine:
These are the gas cards, the cards that fuel the deck and the cards that allow a Lands player to break parity with your opponent. These cards are the ones that either win you the game or let you turn recursive effects into game winning board positions.

Life From the Loam. (4 Copies)
This lovely card is the reason this deck exists, the reason that the deck can keep up with Blue tempo and also restriction on many of the card choices for the deck. On the surface it does not look like much but as a card that lets you recycle lands while also feeding your graveyard and its Dredge ability can often read more like "Draw three cards". It feeds itself while opening to you options at a much more accelerated rate than just drawing a card a turn ever could. The weakness is the cards dependency on the Graveyard and the fact that in a very quick time most of the contents of your hand will be known. But its recursion and the fuel it grants itself makes it one of the most powerful draw spells in the format. Its an easy four of in this deck.

Exploration. (4 Copies)
A must have. Exploration allows you to make an additional land drop each turn (Stacking in kind) thus transforming card advantage of Life from the Loam in board advantage. This is a very powerful effect when you take into consideration the amount of "Spell" lands you have and also the speed advantage extra mana will give you. Play four.

Manabond. (2 Copies)
Just as exploration, this card cheats multiple lands into play. Manabond lets you place all lands in your hand onto the battlefield, while all nonland cards are discarded. Manabond’s effect has the strongest synergy with Life from the Loam, but at the same time it’s drawback can leave you vulnerable if you don't have a Loam, or if your opponent has graveyard hate. This is the reason that manabond often gets sided out game 2.

The Tutors:
The glue that holds a lot of the deck together. While in the modern Legacy format many tutors have found themselves banned, these few are still legal and hold the deck together by letting you fill in the blank spaces you need to in most situations.

Crop Rotation. (3-4 Copies)
"Sac a land, solve target problem". Ok that is slightly hyperbolic, but it is still very close to the truth. With a mix of Spell like effects in many of its targets it can be the Swiss army knife of almost any situation and Life from the Loam can get back whatever card you were forced to sacrifice should you want it back. This card also can help power out the combo since both parts are lands. The card is not without issue though, the sacrifice is a part of it's cost. This means if the card is countered, you lose a land and do not get to fetch. It is a high value target and will often be earmarked for countering. This can be a weakness or a strength as it can also be used to bate out counters if you want another spell to resolve. (Like Gamble.)

Tip: Playing crop rotation at your opponents end of turn for one of the missing combo pieces, and immediately generating the token, will give you a possibly lethal attacker during your following turn.
Tip2: You can use crop rotation to save your life from the loam from grave hate, by getting horizon canopy, activate to draw, replace the draw by dredge. Punishing Fire can be saved in the same way, get Grove and activate Punishing Fire's triggered ability. Crop rotation also saves a single land from being surgical extracted, by getting this copy in the safe zone of the battlefield.
Tip 3: You can use crop rotation defensive versus wasteland. If a land gets wasted, you can sacrifice it in response as part of the casting cost of crop rotation, making the wasteland fizzle while you search for a land to put into play.

Gamble. (4 Copies)
Gamble is an amazing card, since it gets you any card you want, for 1 Red mana. It’s drawback, discarding a card at random is often mitigated by the graveyard recursion the deck is built around. Usually you can consider gamble as life from the loam 5, 6, 7 and 8, but it also gets you Punishing Fire or any land. You can also attempt to gamble for a card that does not recur from the graveyard, such as Exploration, Manabond or a silver bullet sideboard card. You can reduce the risk of losing this card by "Buffering" it against discard by filling your hand with excess lands. While not always successful, it is a trick worthy of trying if you really need an Exploration for example. This is why gamble is an important card versus bad board states or bad matchups postboard.

The Mana:
While this may not seam evident at first, Lands is often a Mana light deck. It does not need much to start and one the ball in rolling it just snowballs. Many of the decks Lands are played for effects that are not Mana related. This means that while the deck may have a land count in the mid to high 30's, less than half of that count is actually useful as a mana source on the opening turns of the game. Luckily, we also have a Mox, as if the deck was not already busted enough as is.

Forest. (1 Copy)
Your one basic in case you find yourself in need of it. Good against Bloodmoon, Wasteland and Back to Basics. Run one always.

Taiga. (2-3 Copies)
The dual land of choice for the deck. While different people have run different amounts of this card, the more accepted amount is normally 2. Some versions run 3 Taiga (instead of a Fetchland), to have a better balance between Fetchlands and fetchable lands. 3 Taiga will also help casting Seismic Assault, a possible sideboard card. I personally run 3 as I also do feel that since you can recur Fetches, having more Targets is beneficial.

Misty Rainforest, Wooded Foothills, Windswept Heath and Verdant Catacombs. (3-4 Copies)
The "Fetchlands" cycle of lands offer a recurrable way to find any Forests or Taiga still left in your library. The deck never runs more than 4 and there are 4 with different names. Split the difference and protect yourself from Pithing Needle and extraction effects.

Grove of The Burnwillows. (4 Copies)
The second half of the Punishing Fire combo and offers both the colours you need. Easy 4 of. The life gain is often of little consequence as you hit in lots of 20 but it is still worth keeping your opponents life total in mind. Every life you give is 3 mana you need to take it away if you end up needing to burn someone out. Also, against faster decks killing them in one hit is important. Something to keep in mind.

Mox Diamond. (4 Copies)
Having 35 maindeck lands makes Mox Diamond an easy inclusion. It’s drawback – discarding a land – really isn't a drawback with Life from the Loam backup. Playing a fetchland and a Mox Diamond as a turn one play is an excellent start if you can follow it up with Life from the Loam. Mox Diamond fixes your mana as the amount of colored mana sources is limited, and provides you with green mana under a Blood Moon. Mox Diamond is also a great tool to play around Daze.

The Control: Burn
Punishing Fire. (3-4 Copies)
Punishing Fire is recurrable burn thanks to it's interaction with Grove of the Burnwillows. It puts an ability on the stack whenever an opponent gains life and you can pay a single Red to return it to your hand. This is useful since Grove supplies you with both these things effectively turning it into "Tap, return Punishing to your hand". Punishing fire is good because it can in all effects be placed into your hand with Loam. Since Loam can get Grove and Grove can get Punishing, this is an effect that sees a lot of play in Lands decks of all stripes and colours.

One life gained will trigger all Punishing Fire's in your Graveyard too meaning that if you tap one Grove but have a Mox open too, you can get back two Punishing not just one. If you think about this as well as the fact that most of legacy’s creatures are within tend to be two toughness or less, having a punishing fire engine going often mean you are in total control. Punishing Fire also deals with Deathrite Shaman which is often the only way a deck can interact with you game one. Lastly it can also be used as a slow way to win the game as you can burn someone out for 1 Life at a cost of 3 mana. This might seem like a steep cost, but it is shockingly affordable once you come to understand how much mana this deck can create.

Tip: You can destroy an active Mother of Runes by burning her during your opponent’s turn (she will tap to protect itself), recur Punishing Fire and burn again during your turn.
Tip 2: You can save Punishing Fire from graveyard hate by tapping a Grove of the Burnwillows for R, when your opponent passes priority. As this is a mana-ability which activates a triggered ability, so you can even do this when you receive priority after your opponent casts extirpate (which prevents spells or effects being played on the stack).

The Control: Mana Denial
Mana Denial is very much at the core of this decks plan, these cards are the ones that execute this strategy and lock down an opponent long enough for you to win.

Wasteland. (4 Copies)
If you do not know what this card does yet, go play a few games of Legacy with an unstable Mana base of Non Basic lands held together by Fetchlands. If you do know what this card does, you are likely playing an unstable Mana base of Non Basic lands held together by Fetchlands. Either way, I am sure you can guess why it is a four of in this deck.

Ghost Quarter. (0-1 Copies)
This card is often a Strip Mine against a non trivial amount of the Legacy meta. Even if a deck runs basics, it is usually 1 basic for each color used to avoid the mana screw that wasteland can offer. Ghost Quarter enables you to destroy these lone basics as well, enabling a total mana control. Against decks with multiple basics, attempting to ghost quarter your opponent out of basics is normally a bad idea. Some decks will bring in Pithing Needle versus wasteland, having a single ghost quarter circumvents this as well.

Rishadan Port. (4 Copies)
Goblins may be a dying deck, but their mana base lives on. Well mostly. Post is the complement to Wasteland in the decks Mana Denial plan. Normally activated in ones upkeep, this card can cut off an opponent from non instant spells with shocking efficiency. With this card, you sometimes beat Storm Decks since they can fetch basics, but never get full use from them. You can also use it to tap down Fetches in response to Brainstorms or Delver triggers forcing a sub optimal play from the opponent.

Tip: Versus a Sensei’s Divining Top, you should use the port-activation during the draw-step. The top-player will use top’s ability in response to the port-activation during upkeep, minimizing the loss of mana while setting up the draw. If you wait for the draw step, your opponent will have to pay anyway for his top, if he wants to set up his draw. After which you additionally port him.
Tip 2: You can get around decks with cards like Swords to Plowshares by tapping down their Plains in their Main phases and then making your Witch at the end of turn.
Tip 3: You can look for opportune moments to tap lands, like after they cast a spell in their first main phase to try and keep them off mana for things like counters, then in the Second Main you can Crop Rotate in a much less dangerous situation.

The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale. (1 Copy)
The final piece in the Mana Denial plan this card gives you a way out to creatures you otherwise can not control. By stripping an opponent of lands this becomes a Wrath effect but often it is just another of the many thumbscrews. It will limit board Development while restricting the amount of spells an opponent can play in a turn. When used with Maze of Ith, this card can become an almost solid roadblock against many decks.
Sadly, this is a very expensive card with no equivalent replacement. If you want to play Lands, you NEED this card regardless of its price. You are just not playing a Lands deck without it.

Tip: Tabernacle will force your opponent to pay for his creatures during upkeep. So wait until he does before porting him. The same goes for playing Punishing Fire, usually it’s a good play to burn creatures during your opponent's upkeep, after he paid the Tabernacle costs for them.
Tip 2: Tabernacle is written in such a way, that the cost of paying 1 for a creature or be destroyed, is the ability of the creature itself. This makes your opponent the owner of the tabernacle triggers, and if he forgets to pay (for example by immediately drawing a card), all his creatures will be destroyed.
Tip 3: Indestructible creatures (as Marit Lage) cannot be destroyed, so you don't have to pay a Tabernacle trigger for them.

The Control: Damage Control
Maze of Ith. (3-4 Copies)
A complement to your already strong anti creature package with Punishing Fire. Maze holds back creatures that you can not burn out due to protection or size. It can also be used to give a kind of Vigilance to your Marit Lage token by untapping the attacking Witch after you dealt damage but while you are still in the attack step.

Glacial Chasm. (1 Copy.)
This card has a unique effect for a land: dodging all damage at the cost of sacrificing a land and a cumulative upkeep of 2 life. Crop rotating into this card dodges lethal alpha strikes or Price of Progress.

Along with Thespian’s Stage and Life From the Loam, you can continuously keep chasm into play. When the upkeep on chasm triggers, you can in response copy the chasm with thespian’s stage, and not pay the upkeep. The original chasm will be sacrificed, while a copied version without counters remains into play. Play a land as well. Next turn you can opt to pay the cumulative upkeep of 2 life, and recur and play the chasm. In this scenario you will lose 2 life every two turns, but remain on 4 lands. If you find an additional Thespians Stage, or an exploration, you will be able to avoid the lifeloss and/or to get more lands into play. Having such a glacial chasm shield into play, can save you from wasteless decks that attack for the win (Elves, dredge) or from decks that win through damage (burn, belcher). A chasm shield prevents you from attacking, in some cases you'll have to resort to Punishing Fire as a win condition.

It is also worthy to note that since the most common removal spell in the format is Swords to Plowshares and your deck creates a Creature with a power of 20, you can often find yourself at a very high lift total. In cases like this, putting a Chasm in play and then just forgetting about it for a few turns can be all the help you need to get ahead in the game. At the very least it should give the the time needed to set up the combo again.

The Combo:
Dark Depths. (2-3 Copies)
A legendary land which comes into play with 10 ice counters the ability to remove a counter for 3 colourless and to generate a Marit Lage when there is no longer any counters on it. Seems easy right? 30 Mana for a 20/20 kitchen sink? Well, add in our next card and things get fun.

Tip: Pithing Needle on Dark Depths prevents you to remove counters by paying for them, but does not prevent the token from being generated, as it’s a triggered ability.
Tip2: Stifle can counter the first triggered ability of Dark Depths, but this ability will immediately check again for counters, and trigger again.
Tip3: Wasteland protects you from wasteland. Your opponent cannot waste one of your combo pieces, because you could in response activate Stage, copy Depths and generate the token. But an opposing wasteland does prevent you from going off. Your opponent might play it in response to the triggered ability of Dark Depths, sacrificing itself and generating the token. This scenario leaves you with no combo pieces. Having your own wasteland breaks this stalemate up, because you can target the opposing wasteland, forcing it to activate it in response or have it destroyed.
Tip4: Evaluate when to make the token. You can create it during your turn, or at your opponent’s end of turn. During your turn, you play around a wasteland your opponent might play (see above). At your opponent’s end of turn, you avoid sorcery speed creature kill, especially in the form of Liliana of the Veil and Jace, the Mind Sculptor.

Thespian’s Stage. (4 Copies)
This land is without a doubt, the most complicated one in the deck to use right. The amount of tricks you can pull off with this card is astounding and it is far more than half of the combo. You can use it to make a copy of any land on the table, regardless of which side it is on. This is useful when you need a Green land and your opponent has a Red or Green fetch on the table. Not only that, Stage can skip upkeep costs on Chasm while never opening yourself to burn, it can make extra copies of Port for additional control, you can clone lands being targeted by Wasteland and keep them around (Like Tabernacle) and it can protect itself from Wasteland by cloning and becoming a Basic land. Without a doubt the most versatile land in the deck.

Tip: You can copy a basic land, to make Thespian’s Stage immune to wasteland. You can even do this in response to the wasteland activation.
Tip 2: You can circumvent pithing needle with a copied stage (a forest for example). If Pithing Needle names Thespian’s Stage, it will not affect the copy since the copy is now a Forest, with a name to match and it retains copy ability. If someone would want to stop the effect, they would need to name Forest and if they did, they could not stop future Stages you play.
Tip 3: You can use Stage on opponent's lands making the Mirror quite a skill testing event since if someone puts a Depths in play, it can become a very tense situation.
Tip 4: You can clone and then use opponents Fetchlands.

The "Spells":
These lands are the ones that hold the rest of the deck together. Each has a unique effect that should be examined and thought over. Some decks run none of these cards, others run large amounts of them. None of them are needed for the core of the deck to run, but all help add something to the deck be it a smoother operation or an effect that your local Meta demands.

Horizon Canopy. (0-1 Copy)
The first of the decks two "Draw" lands. What makes Canopy special is that in the early game it can be used as a pain land offering starting Mana at the cost of a single life. This effect, while only offering one of the two colours we need, is no less useful in a deck that wants to power out green enchantments and spells as early as it can. Canopy also has another effect, that of card drawing. This is extremely useful when playing against decks with Deathrite as their main piece of graveyard interaction. Since you can use Canopy in response to the targeting of Life from the Loam and counter the removal effect of DRS. The drawback this card has over Tranquil Thicket is that it has to be in play to be used, that said, the bonus of having that extra mana source is a very big count in its favour.

Tranquil Thicket. (0-3 Copies)
Another draw engine in this deck. Uncounterable, instant speed and cheap, it is everything you need to save your Life from the Loam should the need arise. Its drawback is that it comes into play tapped. Still, when in the later stages of the game, this card can let you draw and Dredge (If you are looking for something like an Exploration) or Dredge more than one time a turn. While some people cut these for other effects, I personally would always have at least one on hand.

Karakas. (0-1 Copy)
A true "Silver Bullet" in this deck, Karakas offers you an out against Legendary creatures at little cost. Being something you can Crop Rotate into at instant speed helps too. A great inclusion in your 75 and something you should pay great attention to should your Meta call on it for your main.

Bojuka Bog. (0-1 Copy)
No deck in the modern Legacy format is complete without some kind of graveyard hate. Lands is no different. Bog gives you the option of instant speed wiping of a graveyard (When used with Crop Rotation) should someone be trying to do something you disapprove of, this can be anything from Reanimating something you would rather stay dead or wiping your own grave to counter a Surgical Extraction. The card can also be used as a sorcery speed wipe as well should the need arise. While Black is not the most useful colour in this deck, the effect is still strong enough that the card should see play somewhere in your 75.

Riftstone portal and Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth. (0 Copies most of the time)
Two cards that are often suggested or explored. Both offer the ability to make lands that would not otherwise tap do so. These cards like Maze of Ith or Dark Depths can sometimes be of reduced value in some matches or without a companion piece to go with them so the idea to give them another use seems to be valid. Sadly, the system does not work that well most of the time, you do not need Black mana and Portal does not itself tap for Green. Cutting cards for Portal is not that beneficial and starting with it in your opening hand can just be bad. Still, some people do enjoy using these cards and swear by them. I personally would rather use the space for something more proactive.

The Sideboard:
Lands is by no means a perfect deck. It is highly specialised to deal with fair meta's, creature based decks and it has game against some slower control decks. But it has some fairly large weaknesses too. The deck has a reliance on having access to its graveyard, it has little in the way of answers to spells on the stack and it really just does not like combo. Decks like Storm, Omnishow and Reanimator can cause issues while cards like Rest in Peace, Tormod's Crypt and Nihil Spellbomb can cause massive headaches. Grafdigger's Cage might sometimes find its way onto the battlefield, but the card does nothing to the deck.

It is around these weaknesses that the sideboard is built. Placing high priorities on Enchantment and Artifact removal as well as taxing effects that force combo decks to slow down. Other options often consist of alternative ways to deal damage, large creatures or extra lands that did not make the cut in the mainboard. Let's have a look at the most common choices.

Ancient Tomb.
A card sometimes used as an accelerant for our own hate, a way to force a card though own own hate or to push a faster combo. Rarely play though some people swear by it, the main trick is that you can Crop Rotate into it on your first turn to drop a Sphere.

Karakas and Bojuka Bog.
If you do not have these cards in the Main, they should be here as they do belong somewhere in the 75.

Dark Depths.
Although this deck is built to control your opponent through lands, having a built-in combo certainly improved the odds of all lands-variants a lot. A postboard commitment to additional combo pieces has 2 upsides. As the combo is independent of the graveyard, an emphasis on the combo counterbalances the grave hate your opponent will board in. So while your opponent undermines the loaming engine, you can reinforce chances of combo winning instead of grinding out.
A second upside is that winning through combo is a lot faster than the long grind. Especially combo decks are difficult matchups because of their speed, and because you do not run Force of Will. So attempting to combo out first is a good game plan versus fast combo decks, as they usually don’t pack hate against your combo (safe from cards like echoing truth)

Ancient Grudge.
Not a bad option against decks that run limited one shot Grave wipe effects. Against a Spellbomb or Crypt you can Gamble for it and then force an activation regardless on if you keep it in hand or not. It will also hit other problem permanents like Pithing Needle, Null Rod and Sword of Fire and Ice. Unfortunately it does not hit Rest in Peace, Counterbalance, Bloodmoon or Leyline of the Void, some of the biggest issues this deck can face. If run, it is good as a one of Silver Bullet but not great in multiples due to its targeting restrictions.

Krosan Grip.
Kills the hate, hard to answer, in our colours and can be cast off a single Basic under Bloodmoon. Really, what's not to like?

Ray of Revelation.
Another card you can use from your grave to hose hate. Targets Moon, Back to Basics and most importantly, Rest in Peace. To destroy Rest in Peace you need to flashback Ray in response to RIP's grave wipe tigger. (Yes, it is a trigger) While you will still lose your Graveyard, they will not get to keep the enchantment turning the card into a one shot effect not a continuous one.

Sphere of Resistance and Thorn of Amethyst.
The two cards often used to hate on combo by increasing the costs of the spells. Increasing the cost of Cantrip, Rituals and other gas can cause issues that many decks have a hard time dealing with doubled by the Mana denial plan of the deck. The other bonus of these cards is their colourless nature, allowing ease of casting in the early stages of the game.

Chalice of the Void.
This card is the strongest, and cheapest card available to battle unfavorable matchups and for this reason many lists run at least 1 Chalice of the Void. But unfortunately it’s symmetrical effect will hit you as well when played for 1 shuting down gamble and crop rotation, cards you typically want to use in a combo matchup. Many lists add 1 chalice of this card, gambling for it and playing it for 0 against very fast matchups. Chalice of the Void is also good versus Miracles, where you can afford a slower play, and where chalice for 1 keeps cantrips and Top from being cast.

Choke.
Mana denial for only one colour? Can't be that good. Oh wait, this is Legacy and that colour is Blue, can not think of how useful as to how that can be. Oh and you can tap down those lands with Port? Well sounding better all the time.

Pithing Needle.
Pinpoint targeting of many key cards that can cause issues. From increasing Mana denial by targeting fetches to stopping Vial and Mother, Top, Griselbrand, Sneak Attack, Grindstone, Deathrite Sharman and any Planeswalker. This is a fantastic card and running some number is suggested.

Seismic Assault.
This can be very powerful but also very hard to cast. Three Red mana is a tougher ask than it looks, unless you happen to be under a Blood Moon or you are looking to play longer games. It is also a plan that does not need the Graveyard to kill. This is not the most effective of uses but it should be noted as a possible use but in all honesty, this card is at it's best when you can recur lands, if your meta is full of Grave hate, this is not likely the best option for you.

Primeval Titan.
Primetime is expensive, but when it hits, it’s a bomb. If it hits the table, you'll get to search for two lands that come into play tapped. Depending on the board state these cards could be anything, but chances are high you want it to be combo pieces, because your opponent most likely cannot handle both Primetime and Marit lage. Primeval Titan needs to be answered, or an additional two lands will enter the battlefield during your next turn. This effect is independent of the graveyard, which makes Primeval Titan a very good card when Life from the Loam has been disabled or access to the Graveyard has been removed.

Zuran Orb.
While not a common sight in a build of Lands not running Blue, it is still a very strong card. It gives you the option of sacing Chasm every second turn for a net neutral cost in both life and mana while helping strengthen you against decks with heavy Burn strategies.

The Sideboard: (Black Splash)
Some players enjoy adding a Black splash to their builds, almost always for exclusive access to sideboard options. To do this, one of the "Flex" maindeck slots is changed for a single Bayou. Often these decks will be on the 4 Fetchlands plan too for the increase in access to this extra land. Cards cut for this Bayou are usually Karakas, Thicket, 4th Crop or the 3rd Dark Depths. This opens you to an interesting suite of cards, most of note is Urborg, a card that when it can be used is very powerful. The other options are as follows:

Abrupt Decay.
There is little I can add to the long list of praises heaped upon this card. It is more flexible than Grip and hits most of the same targets. Also, unlike Grip which can get stranded in your hand if there happens to be no target, Decay can be an answer to threats you might otherwise have a hard time dealing with like Goyf and Liliana.

Dark Confidant.
Your maindeck as a total CMC average of just over 0.45. Even if you slightly increase that number by adding in some two cost cards, you still look to average around half a point worth of damage each flip. Not bad odds. After you flip you then have the option to Dredge, useful when you are looking for something you can not Loam back.
Bob shines mostly in Control matches, where after they have likely removed some number of Creature removal you can bring him in and bury them under card advantage. If the opponent is forced to use removal such as Sword to Plowshares to stop your Confidant, that puts you ahead when you later start making Flying Witches.

Raven's Crime.
A very good option mostly seen in Jund Depths, a good card that gives you an added level of control. Spots are tight though and this card often does not make the cut as this deck can be too fast to need it.

Worm Harvest.
Another possible win condition. With it you can flood the board with tokens. These days a relic of the past as once it was quite popular as a faster way to speed up the clock.

Matchups:
Patriot Delver: (favorable game one, harder after sideboarding)
No interference pre board with the loam engine (play around Daze and Spell Pierce for resolving exploration). They run only non basics, which makes the mana denial plan very strong. Punishing Fire deals with Delver and maze with batterskull. Avoid having them play an (equipped) TNN with mana denial, at which point you will have to race them, or slow them down with Chasm. They have swords to plowshares to deal with your combo plan, you should only resort to the combo when they're tapped out of white mana, or if you have recursion for the combo pieces and you can afford being set back 2 lands. Swords to plowshares gives you 20 life, which helps you if you need to race them. Look out for a fast Delver deployment with disruptive backup along with burn.
Keycards: accelerated waste lock (wasteland, life from the loam, exploration).
They will side in: Rest in Peace, meddling mage, Submerge
Side in: 4x Krosan Grip, 1x Dark Depths, Choke
Side out: 2x Manabond, Karakas, Bojuka Bog, Tranquil Thicket

Postboard is harder, if they have Meddling Mage, it can be hard to deal with (they will name Punishing Fire or Loam). Go for the mana denial plan with Krosan Grip Backup versus Rest in Peace.

RUG Delver: (favorable to even dependent on their draw)
No interference pre board with the loam engine (play around Daze and Spell Pierce for resolving exploration). They run only non basics, which makes the mana denial plan very strong. Punishing Fire deals with delver and maze with Tarmogoyf. Nimble Mongoose can race you, Bojuka Bog and Chasm can slow them down. They have no interference with your combo plan, so you can combo when the opportunity presents itself. Look out for a fast delver deployment with disruptive backup (stifle!) along with burn.
Keycards: accelerated waste lock (wasteland, life from the loam, exploration),Combo Pieces
They will side in: possibly Surgical Extraction Submerge, Pithing Needle
Side in: 1x Dark Depths, Choke
Side out: Karakas, possibly Rishadan port

Postboard your mana denial plan is again very strong, watch out for extraction. The Combo Plan is also strong, attempt to avoid having a forest on the battlefield (crop rotation, wasteland) when comboing to dodge Submerge.

Death and Taxes: (even to unfavorable)
No interference pre board with the loam engine. They run many basics, which makes the mana denial plan not so strong. Attempt to delay them with Rishadan Port. Punishing Fire deals with all their threats, and is your strongest gameplan. Destroy an active mom by burning during your opponents turn and again during your turn. Avoid having Sword of Fire and Ice equipped by burning the creature in response to sorcery speed equipping. THey have a strong mana denial plan of their own, with wasteland, Rishadan Port, Thalia, Phyrexian Revoker (Mox), Aven Mindcensor (fetchlands), so keep a hand with multiple mana sources. They have swords to plowshares, Flickerwisp (vial on 3) and up to 3 Karakas to deal with your combo plan, you should only resort to the combo when they're tapped out of white mana, or if you have recursion for the combo pieces and you can afford being set back 2 lands. Besides Stoneforge Mystic, they don't have card advantage. So if you can stabilize with Punishing Fire and Maze of Ith, you will take over. Tabernacle keeps their number of creatures in check, with vial dodging you mana denial plan.
Keycards: Punishing Grove
They will side in: Rest in Peace, Enlightened Tutor, Cataclysm
Side in: 4x Krosan Grip, 1x Dark Depths, Pithing Needle, Primetime, Assault
Side out: Bojuka Bog, Ghost Quarter, Tranquil Thicket, Manabond, possibly Glacial Chasm

Postboard they will go for Rest in Peace, you have Krosan Grip to deal with it. Krosan Grips can handle Vials, Batterskull, Sword of Fire and Ice as well. Needle can deal with vials, mom, equipment

(Dark) Maverick: (unfavorable)
They have Scavenging Ooze or Deathrite Shaman through Green sun's Zenith to interfere pre board with the loam engine. They probably run a basic for each color (2-3), which makes the mana denial plan decent if you can handle Deathrite Shaman through Punishing Fire. Destroy an active mom by burning during your opponents turn and again during your turn. If they get a Knight of the Reliquary online, they can interfere with all your gameplans. Knight gets big and can handle maze by fetching wasteland, handles the token by getting Karakas, removes the graveyard with Bog. Crop rotating for Bojuka Bog will reduce Knight to punishable sizes. They have swords to plowshares to deal with your combo plan, you should only resort to the combo when they're tapped out of white mana, or if you have recursion for the combo pieces and you can afford being set back 2 lands.
Keycards: Punishing Grove for DRS, backed up with mana denial

They will side in: Surgical Extraction, Pithing Needle
Side in: 1x Dark Depths, Primetime, Krosan Grip (Assault will probably be decayed or targeted by Pridemage, might be okay)
Side out: Karakas, manabond, Chasm

Postboard watch out for extraction, Primetime has a great impact versus this midrange matchup.

Burn: (unfavorable)
Versus burn you only have two gameplans: a fast combo plan or hiding behind an eternal chasm while setting up a Punishing Fire kill (or have your opponent burn himself to death through Sulfuric Vortex). Dodge Price of Progress by crop rotating in chasm or in the combo.
Keycards: Combo Pieces, accelerators, Crop Rotation (chasm or combo pieces), loam for eternal chasm setup.
They will side in: all price of progresses, if they weren't already main decked as well as Ensnaring Bridge or Pithing Needle if they have them.
Side in: 2x Dark Depths, possibly chalices (I personally don't board in chalice), Zuran Orb and consider side in Krosan Grip for possible Ensnaring Bridge, Pithing Needle, Sulphuric Vortex and Eidolon
Side out: Bojuka Bog, Tabernacle, Ghost Quarter, Karakas and some amount of Wa

Infect: (favorable but they can be faster than you)
No interference pre board with the loam engine (play around Daze and Spell Pierce for resolving exploration). They run only 1 forest, which makes the mana denial plan very strong. Tabernacle and Maze of Ith are also very strong. Punishing Fire deals with all their creatures (they will protect them with Invigorate and Vines of Vastwood). They only have one Wasteland to interact with your combo plan, so you can combo when the opportunity presents itself. Look out for a possible turn two alpha strike, especially since Vines of Vastwood can protect the creature from targeted effects (maze). Look out for an end of turn crop rotation into Inkmoth Nexus or their single Wasteland should they need it. Sandbagging a Crop Rotation into chasm is a good backup plan.
Keycards: Mana Denial, Punishing Grove, Maze of Ith, Tabernacle, Crop Rotation.
They will side in: Surgical Extraction, Submerge, Pithing Needle, Karakas, Bojuka Bog
Side in: 2x Dark Depths, Krosan Grips for destroying Pithing needles on Stage/Maze and Inkmoth Nexus.
Side out: Karakas, Bojuka Bog and 2 Manabond

Postboard watch out for extraction, submerge, Karakas, Bojuka Bog. All your maindeck strategies are very strong against them, watch out for an alpha strike out of nowhere.

MUD: (favorable to even)
No interference pre board with the loam engine. They run only non basics, which makes the mana denial plan very strong, especially since they need this manabase and metalworker to ramp into expensive artifacts. Punishing Fire deals with metalworker. Keep them from obtaining the mana they need to take the game over. They have Trinisphere and Chalice, Chalice on 1 is annoying but only chalice on 2 will really harm you. You can lock up a MUD player behind his own Trinisphere with a recurring wasteland. They have no interference with your combo plan as long as you keep their mana resources low, so you can combo when the opportunity presents itself.
They will side in: Pithing Needle, Tormod's Crypt, perhaps Ensnaring Bridge or Tsabo's web
Side in: 1 Dark Depths, 4 Krosan Grip, Pithing Needle
Side out: Karakas, Bojuka Bog, manabond, Tranquil Thicket
Keycards: (accelerated) Wasteland lock, Punishing Fire for metalworker

Postboard they don't really have that much against you, you have Krosan Grip though.

Miracles: (unfavorable to even game one, slightly easier after sideboarding)
One of the hardest matchups in terms of playing, however not difficult to win if you know how. It's even in general, slightly unfavored in G1, and favored after SB. Their only viable option to stop us using Sensei's Divining Top + Counterbalance with a 2 cmc card on top of the library. It successfully turns off both of our engines: Punishing Fire and Life from the Loam. We don't have instruments to destroy Counterbalance in Game 1, however it does not mean that the game is unwinnable. We still have 8 Rishadan Ports to keep them in check. Also the card you need to keep in mind is Entreat the Angels, which can win on the spot.
If they don't have Top+Balance, try attacking their mana base aggressively. Tap their blue mana with Port. Perfectly, they should not have more than 1 blue mana available in their main phase. If Ghost Quarter is available, first destroy Plains, only after that continue with Islands. They have only 2 Plains. Ripping off all of their white Mana with Quarter and Wasteland will turn off their removal for Marite Lage and Entreat the Angels. After that they will be able to win only with Jace, which is a nice target for Punishing Fire.
If they manage to assemble Top+Balance and have a 2cmc card on top, our best bet is to manually find Dark Depths + Stage, waste or tap their white mana with port and make Marite Lage at the end of their turn. It's important to pay attention at how they rearrange cards with Top. You can use Punishing Fire after they put the 2 cmc card second from the top before their draw step to force them spend 2 more mana for putting it back on top and hiding it again. Don't play Loam mindlessly. Once they found a 2 cmc card, they will keep it on the top with all effort. You can try using Port or Wasteland on their fetchlands to force them shuffle and lose a 2 cmc card on the top or lose a land.
Also in response to their fetching you can try to Crop Rotate and force them to put Sensei's on top and shuffle it away.
Consider conceding the first game if their position is strong. Postboard games are a little easier and you will need that extra time to win.
After G1 expect Rest in Peace, Wear/Tear or Disenchant, rarely Blood Moon, Surgical Extraction or Relic of Progenitus, Pithing Needle.
Krosan Grips and Chalice of the Void will serve well for you, as well as Choke and Titan if you have them. Use Krosan Grip on RIP or Top. Top is offten more of a danger than Counterbalance since top lets them filter their draws while Counterbalance will only rarely hit anything you can not get back should you need it. Keep Choke until they tap out and you can safely play it. It will win you the game. Chalice on 1 is also painful for them, because it turns off all their cantrips, StP and tricks with the Top, which works on all stages of the game. However, play your 1-mana spells before turning them off with Chalice. In G2 and G3 we have too many dangerous cards for them, but still the game will likely go to extra turns, so try playing as fast as possible against Miracles. Note that tapping their lands with Rishadan Port is sometimes better on their draw step if they control Sensei's Divining Top.
Side in: Krosan Grips, Primeval Titan, Chalice of the Void, Choke, Dark Depths (some players prefer Sphere of Resistance instead of Chalice)
Side out: Karakas, 1-2 Punishing Fire, Bojuka Bog, 2 Manabond, 4 Crop Rotation, 3 Maze of Ith, The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale, Glacial Chasm, also you can side out 1 Life from the Loam if you expect a lot of Rest in Peace.

Storm (ANT/TES): (very unfavorable)
One of the worst matchups. The only way to win G1 is a fast combo or total land control, so mulligan properly if you know you are playing versus Storm. If you kept an average hand but still alive after t2, attack their manabase with all effort and keep Crop Rotation for Bojuka Bog to fizzle their Past in Flames or for Tabernacle if they play Empty the Warrens.
After SB mulligan hands without hate. If they discard your hate card you can still find another one with gamble. To keep the chances of gambling high do not make needless land drops.
Note that if you expect a lot of Storm combo in your meta, the optimal amount of hate cards in SB is 8 or more.
Side in: Dark Depths, all Sphere of Resistance, Thorn of Amethyst and Chalice of the Void, Bojuka Bog if not in main deck, Zuran Orb, Ancient Tomb (to speed up t1 Chalice or Sphere)
Side out: Karakas, 1-3 Punishing Fire, Glacial Chasm, 4 Maze of Ith, the Tabernacle (against ANT)

Painter: (very unfavorable)
I can not think of a matchup that is as twisted as this. It is not as hard to win as Storm is, but it can be shockingly unforgivable if you make a single mistake. G1 you are likely going to get hosed by a Blood Moon without knowing it is coming. If you see a Mountain leading into a Top, this is the deck. Your only out is a fast combo, something they have an answer for. Main Deck, they run Ensnaring Bridge and also happen to be able to fetch it. They also run Magus of the Moon, like Blood Moon was not already a pain. If a Blood Moon is dropped, just go to game too, if Magus is dropped, Gamble or dig for Punishing Fire as fast as you can. After you side you're in for a chance. Keep hands with Grip, Fetches and speed. They will have brought in more Moon effects, Artifact hate, more Bridges and Rest in Peace. You need to try for your combo as fast as you can while holding up removal for a Bridge, a combo piece or a Moon. The one thing you need not fear is Damage, they do not often attack for the win and while sometimes it becomes the plan, they normally will just hit you with their Grindstone combo for the win.
Side in: Grips, Ancient Grudge, Dark Depths and either Seismic Assault or Primeval Titan if you have them.
Side out: Glacial Chasm, 2-3 Maze of Ith, Karakas, Bojuka Bog, 2 Manabond, Ghost Quarter

Mirror match (RG lands): (even)
In G1 the player who recognizes the mirror match first is highly favored. The unexpected Crop Rotation can be devastating be it for Thespian's Stage into opponent's Dark Depths, or Bojuka Bog or a critical early Wasteland. Other than that the game is about who combos off first or loams first. Thespian's Stage is the most powerful land here, because it copies Rishadan Port, basic Forest and Dark Depths. Because of that do not play Dark Depths for no reason!!! Try to keep Tranquil Thicket on your hand all the time to save Life from the Loam from opponent's Bojuka Bog. Do not hurry because the field for making a mistake is vast, however use time efficiently, the game will likely go to extra turns. To save your combo from Wasteland or Karakas you will need to waste or tap it first before activating Thespian's Stage.
There are two lines of play after SB: the control line and the aggressive line. To be more control you can use Chalice of the Void on 1 to turn off opponent's Exploration, Manabond, Gamble and Crop Rotation. Krosan Grip will help you destroying their Moxes and enchantments. However, you can keep Chalice for a better moment, if you have 1cmc cards on hand. Also Chalice on 2 can equalize the board position if you don't have loam and your opponent does. Overall the control line is very tricky and I would recommend it only to experienced players. The aggressive line supposes comboing off as fast as possible. It's good to be aggressive if you are on the draw and loosing g1 with little time left, and the control line is better on the play.
Side in (control): Chalice of the Void (1-3), Dark Depths, 2 Krosan Grip, Ray of Revelation and Pithing Needle (if available), Bojuka Bog and Karakas (if not already in Main deck)
Side in (aggro): Dark Depths, Ray of Revelation and Pithing Needle (if available), Bojuka Bog and Karakas (if not already in Main deck)
Side out: the Tabernacle, 1-2 Maze of Ith, Glacial Chasm, 2-3 Punishing Fire

Merfolk: (favorable)
Merfolk has no pre board graveyard interaction (they might have Daze for Exploration). Basic Islands and Aether Vial make the mana denial plan poor, Tabernacle can keep their amount of creatures in check. Prioritise on targeting their lords with Punishing Fire to avoid lords from reinforcing each other. If they don't have lords, wait for their turn to see what you should burn (watch out for a vialed in lord, buffering a merfolk beyond punishable range). They will start to race you with True Name Nemesis, but as they don't run wasteland and have hardly any means to deal with Marit Lage (some versions run Vapor Snag main), the combo will probably end the game. They can vial in Phantasmal Image to copy the token, as a surprise blocker after which they can attack for the kill. You can deal with Phantasmal Image by targetting it with a spell or ability (Punishing Fire). Because they're wasteless, Chasm works very well too.
They will side in: Pithing Needle, Relic of Progenitus, Surgical extraction, perhaps Submerge or Threads of disloyalty
Side in: 2 Dark Depths, Choke, Pithing Needle (Aether Vial, Mutavault)
Side out: Bojuka Bog, Ghost Quarter, Manabond
Keycards: Combo Pieces, Punishing Grove

Postboard, they will have a better game against you with graveyard hate and token control. Resolving Choke is huge.

Reanimator: (even)
This is a deck that tries to win through combat damage with a limited amount of creatures, of which most are Legendary. They also need multiple turns to win (at least four) and have limited ways of dealing with the token. This is why you have a reasonable shot at winning. If you can combo fast, you should. Bojuka Bog through crop rotation can cut them of at the very start, Karakas bounces their efforts, mazes or chasm will slow their play down. They use their life as a resource for reanimate and Griseldraw, which is limited if you can avoid them from connecting with Griselbrand (if they play reanimate on Griselbrand, they can only draw 7 once). Depending on the build, they might have Ashen Rider or Tidespout Tyrant to deal with Marit Lage or your defenses game 1. Besides non basics they usually have only one basic swamp and island, but as they are very mana-efficient, it's hard to mana lock them.
They will side in: Pithing Needle (Wasteland, Maze, Karakas, Stage), Inkwell Leviathan
Side in: 2 Dark Depths, Bojuka Bog, Karakas, Pithing Needle, depending on the remaining cards sided out, Sphere of Resistance, Chalice of the void
Side out: Tabernacle, Tranquil Thicket, Punishing Fire (I personally keep Manabonds in, might be additional spheres/chalices)

Postboard they probably have Needle on Karakas or Maze of Ith, which hurts. You have Glacial Chasm as backup, and have your own Needle(s) for Griselbrand. Your mainplan is like game 1, to combo first or control their game with Bog/Karakas/Maze/Chasm. Spheres can help you to slow them down or perhaps manalock them . If you're on the play a firstturn chalice for one is gamebreaking, as it shuts down almost any card they play. Be careful later in the game with Chalice for one, as it shuts down crop rotation and gamble as well. Inkwell Leviathan bypasses Maze of Ith, Chasm is the only card that can hold him.
Keycards: Bojuka Bog, Karakas, Maze of Ith (Stage copying Maze), Glacial Chasm, Crop Rotation, combo pieces

Dice_Box

02-13-2015, 02:57 PM

The Hate:
Combo Lands is quite a specialised deck that leans on a large number of Non Basic lands and a suite of unusual permanentes to execute it's game plan. This does have the effect of opening it up to some very unusual hate that is not often found elsewhere. Cards like Back to Basics, Blood Moon, Price of Progress and Tsabo's Web can be lethal against you. Here we will examine some of these cards in detail and what is the best plan against them.

Graveyard Hate:
Grave hate can be narrowed down to three categories, Single shot, Continuous and Pin Point. Each offers its own unique challenge and some are easier to deal with than others.

Single shot describes the one shot, Grave wipe cards that are most commonly found in Artifacts. These are also likely the most common form of Grave hate you will see leveled against you. The most common options tend to be: Tormod's Crypt, Relic of Progenitus, Nihil Spellbomb and sometimes Bojuka Bog. Defeating these cards comes down to either having removal or making your graveyard look too dangerous to handle and forcing their hand. These can also be played around by simply not using your Graveyard, something you can do with this deck.

Continuous describes a group of cards that, once played, have a contentious effect on the Grave. The two most common are Rest in Peace and Leyline of the Void. There are also some other unusual choices like Yixlid Jailer and Dryad Militant. Unfortunately, removal is the only option other than just accepting that your Grave has been cut off. If you expect one of the two Enchantments, bring in hate. You will need it.

Pin Point in my view the most obnoxious class of hate. These cards are normally Instant speed spells or Abilities that are cast from hand or Creatures that have activated effects that utilise the Grave as a fuel source for their own effects. The more common cards in this list include Surgical Extraction, Extirpate, Deathrite Shaman, Scavenging Ooze and to a limited point, Relic of Progenitus. A rare option that sometimes comes up is Faerie Macabre. Seen in older Burn lists, this card sees little play these days, but due to the possibility that someone with an older Burn lise might walk into your store I will list it for complication.

Playing around these cards is really the only option, meaning that head of time you need to recognise the decks that are likely to use them and plan ahead. Saving a Loam can be done by holding a Tranquil Thicket to cycle in response and Punishing Fire can be saved by tapping Grove and paying for the trigger it creates. Note that Extirpate's Split Second effect does not stop you from getting back Punishing fire since Grove is a mana ability, it can be activated without use of the stack but it will just hose Loam. Sometimes they just have an out and you will have to deal with that.

Land Hate:
Land hate is a part of Legacy, a check that keeps the format balanced and rotating, it is also a major part of this decks own plan. It is only fitting then that what we use on others would also be the sword that is often brought to bear against us. From single targeted effects to a range of wide and painful effects that can outright hose this deck, land hate offers a look into a mixed bag on one of the more interesting if now not often printed parts of this games history. The cards most commonly thought of when someone thinks about land hate in legacy is (Well if you have been around awhile) Sinkhole, Stone Rain and Wasteland. Two of these cards no longer seeing much if any play and the other a cornerstone of the Format. There are others though, mostly Artifacts and Enchantments that can make your life hard and it is these cards I wish to explore here.

Back to Basics to me have some of the most spot on flavour text in the game, some people own all the Duals others hose them for it. What this card means for us often is that we will only ever untap once until we find hate. A smart player will wait for you to tap out and then drop it, forcing you to make several land drops before you can remove the card. As a good rule of thumb, Basics are better than Duals unless you need that extra colour now. This card will slow you down, but it does not kill you. I have been under no pressure, had this card land and then just drawn into the combo and killed the player with this card. This is a rare event though and this card spells bad news and needs to be dealt with as soon as you can.

Blood Moon is just evil. If you think someone is running this, fetch your basic as soon as you can and dig for hate. I would prioritise this over the combo because often decks with Blood Moon can drop it on their first turn. You can gamble and go for the kill, just do not expect it will pay off that often against a Painter or Stompy deck.

Pithing Needle seems mundane at first, but it causes headaches like you would never believe. Used mostly to shut down the Combo, it can also target Fetches, Canopy, Wasteland, Maze and Karakas. While it can never hit all these things at the same time, it rarely needs too and will play havoc with whatever will either answer their board state or what you need at the moment to advance your own.

Price of Progress is painful as it comes and Burn decks will almost always be running it. It is also found in the sideboards of U/R Delver lists, making them a touch on the unfun side too. Your outs to this card come down to three options, first you can Crop rotate into a Chasm to prevent the damage, the second option is that of Zuran Orb and the last choice is to Wasteland your own lands. Really not a great amount of fun. Burn is a hard match, sometimes you just have to grin and bear it.

Tsabo's Web is a colourless Back to Basics that really only hits you. Sounds great does it not? Luckily, it misses many of your mana sources and lets you stay in the game but it locks out many of your utility lands. It is seeing an uptick in play of late thanks to Lands strong placing in the format and I would say you should expect to see this card at larger events.

Winter Orb is a rare one. Normally seen as a colourless hoser for large mana decks like 12 Post, or Miracles in the sideboard of some Delver builds. A very rare card these days, it was once a lot more popular in control builds. I would not expect to see a lot of it but keep it in mind.

Decklists:

Artifacts
4 Mox Diamond

Spells
4 Life from the Loam
4 Gamble
3-4 Crop Rotation
3-4 Punishing Fire

Enchantments
4 Exploration
2 Manabond

Mana Lands
1 Forest
2-3 Taiga
0-1 Misty Rainforest
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
4 Grove of the Burnwillows

Mana Denial
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
4 Rishadan Port
4 Wasteland
1 Ghost Quarter

Combo
4 Thespian's Stage
3 Dark Depths

Draw
1-2 Tranquil Thicket
1 Horizon Canopy

Utility
3-4 Maze of Ith
1 Glacial Chasm
0-1 Bojuka Bog
0-1 Karakas

Sideboard
0-1 Bojuka Bog
0-1 Dark Depths
0-1 Karakas
0-2 Primeval Titan
4 Krosan Grip
4 Sphere of Resistance
2 Chalice of the Void
2 Choke
0-1 Seismic Assault

1 Forest
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Glacial Chasm
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Horizon Canopy
3 Maze of Ith
1 Misty Rainforest
4 Rishadan Port
2 Taiga
4 Thespian's Stage
2 Tranquil Thicket
1 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
1 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Karakas
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
2 Dark Depths

4 Mox Diamond
4 Exploration
2 Manabond
4 Crop Rotation
3 Punishing Fire
4 Gamble
4 Life from the Loam

Sideboard
1 Chalice of the Void
1 Pithing Needle
4 Sphere of Resistance
1 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Choke
4 Krosan Grip
1 Bojuka Bog
2 Dark Depths

Other Resources:
Podcasts:
If you want to know the basics, but you are more of an auditory learner, try Legacy Breakfast's two part podcast (https://legacybreakfast.wordpress.com/2015/02/08/episode-49-deck-tech-pt1-rg-combo-lands/) on this build of lands.

Videos:
Starcitygames Open Series: Baltimore
25th - 26th January 2014

SCGBALT - Legacy - Round 9 - Kurt Spiess vs Jesse Hatfield
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwdWj_RAUew

SCGBALT - Legacy - Semifinals - Jeremy Hsu vs Kurt Spiess
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rv9B3vs7Sag

SCGBALT - Legacy - Finals - Kurt Spiess vs Daryl Ayers
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdeQIuF-49M

Starcitygames Invitational: Charlotte
28th - 30th March 2014

SCGINVI - Invitational - Round 11 - Kurt Spiess vs Chris Yarbough
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ciC7HlXX7SA

Starcitygames Invitational: Columbus
13th - 15th June 2014

SCGINVI - Invitational - Round 7 - Gerry Thompson vs Ben Friedman
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GG1ICUvCMvY

Starcitygames Open Series: Minneapolis
25th - 26th October 2014

SCGMINN - Legacy - Round 5 - Blake Patraw vs Nick Leaf
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cz3qkkEDuIQ

SCGMINN - Legacy - Quarterfinals - Nick Leaf vs Craig Spitzer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNFwOdU3KgY

Starcitygames Open Series: Richmond
22nd - 23rd November 2014

SCGRICH - Legacy - Round 5 - Julian Knab vs David Long
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKwMWZwr9v4

SCGRICH - Legacy - Round 9 - Joe Lossett vs Daniel Lawver
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SW84Z_qBmHk

SCGRICH - Legacy - Quarterfinals - Marc Konig vs David Long
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anuSJ9Jzzbs

Starcitygames Open Series: Atlanta
29th - 30th November 2014

SCGATL - Legacy - Round 9 - Chris Andersen vs Jack Fogle
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7ucy5mPVbY

Starcitygames Open Series: Philadelphia
10th - 11th January 2015

SCGPHILLY - Legacy - Round 14 - Rudy Briksza vs David Long
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2581FQVnOs

Sample Hands:
Hand one:
Maze of Ith, Gamble, Misty Rainforest, Crop Rotation, Horizon Canopy, Taiga, Grove of the Burnwillows.

Lets analyze what we have here. Two tutors, some Creature control, a Draw land and lots of fuel. Seams to have it all yes? Well no. What this hand has is a plan, what it lacks is the speed to pull it off. While it is tempting, this is not a hand I would keep. For example, would you keep this hand if the Gamble was a Loam and the Rotation was gone? At that point all you have is mana and no plan and that is a very real risk when you Gamble for Loam. Granted, you can Rotate for a combo piece and then gamble for the other, but it too is a risk. You can do better on 6.

Down to Six:
Punishing Fire, Horizon Canopy, Grove of the Burnwillows, Life from the Loam, Wasteland, Maze of Ith.

So no tutors but a much better hand. While the last hand had a plan that was a long shot on the chance of a quick combo, this one is playing the long game. You can hold off most creature decks, abid slowly, with this hand. Let's say we are playing against someone who does not know what we are on and with that, form a plan. First, what Land do we want to play first? Due to the two mana cost spells, Maze is not an option. That leaves us with Grove, Canopy and Wasteland. Wasteland I think is the worst of these options, you want to bait someone into the card, not advertise you have it. You are hoping to be able to slow them down with a well timed hit to the mana base. That leaves Grove and Canopy.

Now we have to ask the question "What does each land tell our opponent?" Canopy makes us look like Death and Taxes on a slow hand, Grove means we will likely be put on Jund or Lands but is also transmits that our deck is playing Punishing Fire, this can edit their own moves. Also, of these two cards, I would personally rather lose Canopy to a Wasteland. Since they both make green, I think that is the best choice for an opening land drop.

Play Horizon canopy, Pass.

Our opponent plays a Misty, cracks Misty into Underground Sea and then plays Deathrite. We can shorten the list of decks we are playing against to BUG and Deathblade. This means that Punishing Fire is by far the greatest card in our hand right now and Wasteland is not too bad if we can remove that Deathrite from the table. The plan in my mind would be to drop the Grove, take a point off the Canopy, give them a point off the Grove and burn the DRS.

Turn two, card drawn: Tranquil Thicket.
Our draw step does nothing to change our plan, lay the Grove and go for the DRS with your burn.

Grove, Punishing Fire on the DRS, pass.

Our opponent plays a Bayou, casts a Goyf and passes back. So now we really have to options, you can Maze them or you can play Wasteland. There is no pressing need to Dredge right now and in my view drawing is more useful than Dredging right now.

Turn three, card drawn: Crop Rotation.
Not a bad pull that one, time to examine our choices. What does Rotation get us right now? I would argue not a lot, but it is a good option for later. So lay down the Mase or the Wasteland? With Maze we stop a hit from the Gofy, with Waste we put them back a turn. One could argue that we can afford to take the hit right now, the chance of causing issues with their mana overweighs stopping a 3 power Goyf this turn. So the question becomes; what do we Waste? Your options are Underground Sea and Bayou, meaning they are likely on BUG. I think the most important thing to do in this situation would be to stop them from fixing their mana. If they can not make another drop from their hand they will want to use cantrips to solve the issue. My target would be Underground Sea for this reason.

Wasteland, waste the Underground.

So now we still have two mana open and we have three choices, we can Loam and get back the Wasteland or we can return the Punishing Fire to our hand and Cycle the Thicket. The last option is sac the Canopy, a choice I feel is weakest. As it was last turn, I feel the play is not to Loam. Again we have more options off the draw and if we Cycle the Thicket, we give ourselves another target for the Loam.

Pass the turn.

Our opponent attacks, we take the damage and then he casts Thoughtseize. Change of plans then. Right now the only two targets he has are Loam and Rotation. It is best to cast Rotation and leave him only the Loam as a target, but what do we sacrifice? Right now, in my opinion the best land to sacrifice is the Canopy. It is only giving us one of our colours and it hurts us. The question is what do we go for? I think these are the best options: The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale, Wasteland, Bojuka Bog or the Basic Forest.

Bog in interesting, but right now of no use, this is in my mind the least useful of the options. Tabernacle will turn the thumbscrews, but it does not produce mana and next turn we would like to cast Loam. That said we have two chances to do so with the Thicket in hand, so it is an option. Wasteland lets us take them to zero or one land dependent on if they can play one in their second main and Forest leaves us Wasteland prof. What would you do? I leave that to you.

Hand two:
Life from the Loam, Thespian's Stage, Ghost Quarter, Grove of the Burnwillows, Dark Depths, Manabond, Exploration.

This is the kind of hand I wish I always opened with and did not just draw for an experiment. What we have is almost the perfect hand. With one more mana in place of the Exploration, you would be making a Witch on your first turn and attacking with it on your second. Instead, you are looking at a turn 3 punch with a Loam in hand just in case you need it. The opening land will have to be Grove then leaving you to pause on what to cast with it, Manabond or Exploration. In this case, since we are not looking at a turn two win there is no reason to push Manabond here. You will want to keep it in hand should you need it. We would roll out Exploration and then follow with the Quater. The plan being that you would not wish to show your hand and spook an opponent into opening with land destruction.

Disruption against this hand is limited to Counters and Land control. Someone who understands how to play against this deck is likely to counter the Exploration since the speed it offers is a threat that once landed, is difficult to answer. The issue is, with the combo in hand, speed or land disruption are the only real outs an opponent has to stopping the creation of the token. To make matters worse, if the token can be dealt with by something like Swords to Plowshares, the Loam gives redundancy. This is very close to the perfect hand.

Credits:
This primer was a joint effort with help from a team of helpful people, I would like to thank the following for their help:

door: Proofreading, Matchup analysis and useful suggestions.
Lt. Quattro: Compiling and formatting the Video section.
Rivfader: Jointly writing the Card analysis, Matchup analysis, the Banner at the top of the Primer and no small amount of useful suggestions.

Dice_Box

02-13-2015, 02:57 PM

I hit the character limit...

Anen

02-13-2015, 04:34 PM

Needle isnt very efficient against Moxen.

Dice_Box

02-13-2015, 04:48 PM

Needle isnt very efficient against Moxen.

Good catch, thanks.

Dice_Box

02-14-2015, 09:17 AM

All right. I think we are close enough now we can move it to its own thread. I will be adding more hands and some more matchups, but unless anyone can think of anything that must be added I have missed, I will be moving it over to a new thread before I go to bed this morning.

Dice_Box

02-14-2015, 03:46 PM

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?29193-R-G-Combo-Lands

Goodnight sweet prince.