[MODO BUG] Order of Succession

[Julian23]

Emergency Thread Opening:

Everyone please be aware that the Commander 2013 Rare Order of Succession is currently bugged. If it resolves and your opponent controls no creatures, you will either timeout or be forced to concede to continue the match. There's a user called lulleke_45 currently abusing this card; it is strongly recommended to report him via the WotC Customer Service website or - and I strongly urge you to - tweet at @mtgworth and complain about it.

The best way to get the scum playing that "combo" is to try to get them by Abrupt Decaying your only creature in response to Order of Succession to actually make THEM time out, as they would have to choose first. Be aware of Forbidden Orchard though.

For me though, it's Claws of Gix all over again.

Again: please tweet at @mtgworth to end this bug ASAP! -Thank you!

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BpzG4hmCQAAuSe7.png:large

[Barook]

Joe Lossett also played against one of those (duparcqG) (http://www.twitch.tv/oarsman79/c/4438153)

[Amon Amarth]

I'm going to rather unhappy when they decide to not ban, temporarily, people exploiting this bug.

[Megadeus]

What was the Claws of Gix bug?

[nedleeds]

LOL @ timing out. LOL @ database rows.

[Barook]

LOL @ timing out. LOL @ database rows.
While this bug isn't pretty, the amount of cheaters is very low on MODO.

There's a bug here and there, but that doesn't compare to the amount of cheating that can occure in Paper.

[Dice_Box]

A product of design, not desire.

Also, the fact that a player can no be DQed from an event after taking to devs about this is shameful. In paper, he would be gone.

[Adryan]

Finally a good way to balance those nasty creature decks in legacy ^^

Glad that i play Miracles.

[Julian23]

A product of design, not desire.

Also, the fact that a player can no be DQed from an event after taking to devs about this is shameful. In paper, he would be gone.

Actually, you would not have to face any consequences in a real life tournament by abusing a rules interaction that somehow went undiscovered in testing. The HJ however could however, kind of like as an "emergency measure" try to fix things as he's always the final authority on how cards work - not Oracle. In the history of Magic, I don't think this was ever neccessary though. There was something with regards to cascading into Bond of Agony where people said it was ambigious how the card worked but I'm not sure if that was actually true.

[Parcher]

Actually, you would not have to face any consequences in a real life tournament by abusing a rules interaction that somehow went undiscovered in testing. The HJ however could however, kind of like as an "emergency measure" try to fix things as he's always the final authority on how cards work - not Oracle. In the history of Magic, I don't think this was ever neccessary though. There was something with regards to cascading into Bond of Agony where people said it was ambigious how the card worked but I'm not sure if that was actually true.

Yes, this has happened. With the Wall of Roots/Magma Mine combo. It was MirVlight Block PTQ, and a judge upheld a player's arguement that Wall could be activated "infinite" times, "in between turns". By next week's PTQ, the judges all announced that they would not honor this ruling, and the combo was nixed. All without any DCI intervention.

[Dice_Box]

Julian, what he is doing is akin to sitting down, going though your deck and slamming down Platinum Angel. Then saying, "It says I can't lose, therefore you can't DQ me for cheating it in." Go try that in a paper event and see what happens.

[Julian23]

Julian, what he is doing is akin to sitting down, going though your deck and slamming down Platinum Angel. Then saying, "It says I can't lose, therefore you can't DQ me for cheating it in." Go try that in a paper event and see what happens.

You might be laughing now but this has actually happened (http://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/24lrp1/standoff_in_honolulu/) in the past.

"He then looked at his opponent’s face-down morphs, referred to outside notes, and substituted cards from his sideboard. "




Original credit for the story goes to Magic Lampoon.

[Finn]

Yes, this has happened. With the Wall of Roots/Magma Mine combo. It was MirVlight Block PTQ, and a judge upheld a player's arguement that Wall could be activated "infinite" times, "in between turns". By next week's PTQ, the judges all announced that they would not honor this ruling, and the combo was nixed. All without any DCI intervention.

I have always wondered wtf that judge was thinking. It was a nonsensical argument that there was this moment "between turns". I have never seen any defensible argument made on behalf of the rules of the day. This was pre-6th, mind you. I think the player was a doofus and the judge was high.

[Parcher]

I have always wondered wtf that judge was thinking. It was a nonsensical argument that there was this moment "between turns". I have never seen any defensible argument made on behalf of the rules of the day. This was pre-6th, mind you. I think the player was a doofus and the judge was high.

Not my quote:

The Wall of Boom combo used to work because there was a moment between turns (because of weird rules made for Time Vault). A judge ruled that players could use Wall of Roots between turns because nothing could stop you from using a mana source, and that you could use Wall of Roots an unlimited number of times because it wasn’t a turn, and that Wall of Roots wouldn’t immediately die from the minus counters because mana sources are too fast. (You can use the mana source over and over before the rules check to see if the wall dies.)

The original ruling was incorrect though, since unless you were David Mills, you still coudn't activate Mine during your untap step. Which was why it only lasted a week. However, it did port to Standard, where players used Stasis to get around the untap step. Though that did make it a three-card combo. This was fixed a few weeks later.

[Anusien]

You might be laughing now but this has actually happened (http://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/24lrp1/standoff_in_honolulu/) in the past.

"He then looked at his opponent’s face-down morphs, referred to outside notes, and substituted cards from his sideboard. "




Original credit for the story goes to Magic Lampoon.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lampoon

[TsumiBand]

While this bug isn't pretty, the amount of cheaters is very low on MODO.

There's a bug here and there, but that doesn't compare to the amount of cheating that can occure in Paper.

I was going to say, bug abuse is in a completely different ballpark from someone who (un)knowingly bends the rules of Magic in a 'real life' setting.

This is unfortunate, especially since it seems like the kind of thing which can be addressed on discovery. I wonder how long this will actually languish in Derpsville before some underpaid code monkey coughs up the if/else that addresses this.

[Finn]

Not my quote:

The Wall of Boom combo used to work because there was a moment between turns (because of weird rules made for Time Vault). A judge ruled that players could use Wall of Roots between turns because nothing could stop you from using a mana source, and that you could use Wall of Roots an unlimited number of times because it wasn’t a turn, and that Wall of Roots wouldn’t immediately die from the minus counters because mana sources are too fast. (You can use the mana source over and over before the rules check to see if the wall dies.)

The original ruling was incorrect though, since unless you were David Mills, you still coudn't activate Mine during your untap step. Which was why it only lasted a week. However, it did port to Standard, where players used Stasis to get around the untap step. Though that did make it a three-card combo. This was fixed a few weeks later.

Ahh, thank you. Figures it was due to one of the many attempts to properly word Time Vault. And now that card has no errata. Cute. I would really love to see a chronology on the history of Time Vault wording.

[thecrav]

Ahh, thank you. Figures it was due to one of the many attempts to properly word Time Vault. And now that card has no errata. Cute. I would really love to see a chronology on the history of Time Vault wording.

I think this is what you're looking for (http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/vintage/16079-So-Many-Insane-Plays-Dear-Mark-Gottlieb-Please-Fix-Time-Vault.html)

[Phelix]

This has been going on for at least 3 days.


I played the same guy 3 times abusing this. He was even playing exotic orchard or wth it's called.

I have screenshots of him confessing abuse.

Reported it obviously.

Will post account name when I get back home tonight.

[Phelix]

Account name bluelarki or something close to that

[ubernostrum]

Wall of Boom was, for a short while, officially left to the interpretation of the Head Judge of each tournament, though BethMo had said she personally would rule it invalid. Then the early-1998 rulings updates closed it off permanently.

Meanwhile, there was a genuine and very high-profile situation of players trying to abuse an oversight. The Sixth Edition Oracle update accidentally mis-worded Yawgmoth's Will to have a trigger remove cards which were put into the graveyard, rather than a replacement effect. At French Nationals 1999, many players showed up prepared to exploit this with Dark Ritual for an infinite-mana combo.

HJ Cyril Grillon overruled Oracle and declared Yawgmoth's Will would play as a replacement effect; players came close to literal rioting, several had to be DQ'd, some threatened to sue, etc.

Cyril's report on the event is here:

http://www.wizards.com/dci/judge/main.asp?x=articles/jc20010717a

DCI response supporting Cyril's authority to overrule Oracle is here:

http://www.wizards.com/sideboard/article.asp?sb19990728a

When training up new judgelings, I occasionally use this to illustrate why a Head Judge is literally empowered to overrule the rules :)

[ESG]

Meanwhile, there was a genuine and very high-profile situation of players trying to abuse an oversight. The Sixth Edition Oracle update accidentally mis-worded Yawgmoth's Will to have a trigger remove cards which were put into the graveyard, rather than a replacement effect. At French Nationals 1999, many players showed up prepared to exploit this with Dark Ritual for an infinite-mana combo.

HJ Cyril Grillon overruled Oracle and declared Yawgmoth's Will would play as a replacement effect; players came close to literal rioting, several had to be DQ'd, some threatened to sue, etc.

Cyril's report on the event is here:

http://www.wizards.com/dci/judge/main.asp?x=articles/jc20010717a

DCI response supporting Cyril's authority to overrule Oracle is here:

http://www.wizards.com/sideboard/article.asp?sb19990728a

When training up new judgelings, I occasionally use this to illustrate why a Head Judge is literally empowered to overrule the rules :)

That's a fascinating story, and I'm surprised I haven't heard it recounted before. Thanks for sharing!

[Arsenal]

That's a fascinating story, and I'm surprised I haven't heard it recounted before. Thanks for sharing!

Same here. Lol at the tired, old "I'm gonna sue!" phrase people use when you know full well that they're not gonna do jack about it. "I'm gonna sue!" is used by people who know they don't have the law on their side, but want to intimidate the other person into submitting to their demands. Gotta love it.

[Julian23]

Someone threatened to "sue" at the most recent Bazaar of Moxen when he wanted to drop after round 2 of the Last Chance Trial and they denied to refund his money.