URBG PyroLoam

[Lightless]

Hey Guys,

I need some help with a brew i came up with. The more the merrier works with brewing up new stuff as well I think.

The base of the list is a derivate fromthe Korey McDuffie Pyro Loam list:

http://www.starcitygames.com/events/coverage/deck_tech_pyro_loam_with_korey.html

So lets just jump into my list now:

Deck


//Creatures

2 Edric, Spymaster of Trest
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Deathrite Shaman

//Planeswalker

1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Dack Fayden

//Spells

1 Fire // Ice
3 Force of Will
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Brainstorm
2 Ponder
3 Intuition
3 Cabal Therapy
3 Punishing Fire
1 Life from the Loam

//Lands

1 Thespian's Stage
1 Dark Depths
2 Wasteland
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Tropical Island
2 Volcanic Island
2 Underground Sea
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
2 Scalding Tarn


I reduced the black cards by quite a bit so i only use black mana for Cabal Therapy, activation of Deathrite Shaman and potential Sideboard options.

First of all let me explain som of the card choices I made.


Cardchoices

Young Pyromancer: With ten Cantrips and the recursive engine of Punishing Fire and Life from the Loam there should be no shortage of cards to trigger this little board-flooding powerhouse. On the other side he makes the Flashback of Cabal Therapy more easily accessable.

Deathrite Shaman: I dont think i got to explain why he is a nice Creature. Mana ramp, damage on a stick and prolonging the game by gaining life are all more then enough to put him in here.

Edric, Spymaster of Trest: Pretty absurd with Young Pyromancer and a good way to gain card advantage. Pyro + Edric: Tokes -> more card -> more Tokens. Rinse and repeat.

Dack Fayden: Actualy this was the card that made me pick up this deck again after all. I think he needs a graveyard based strategie to make use of his +1 ability and use up his full potential. Loam - Punising Fire - Cabal Therapie... I think I mke good use of him.

Ponder Brainstorm Gitaxian Probe: Cantrips... what would be a blue legacy deck without them.

Intuition: Searching for the cards u need with many recursive parts in the deck nothing is realy gone forever. Thespian's Stage + Dark Depths + Life fromthe Loam as a potential combo-win..

Cabal Therapy: Handdisruption of choice, searchable with Intuition and free flashback with Pyromancer.


Okay since I didn't yet play this deck enough to make statements about its bad matchups, I cannot tell you yet what the main problems are,
even if I have some Ideas about that. (aggro-tempo-based decks might be a problem e.g.: RUG-Delver)
But like I said, the more people are racking their brains about somthing the more usefull ideas might show up, so don't hold back.
Give me your opinion, ideas and suggestions on how to mke this better. I'm also open to sideboard ideas. I allready made up my mind about some of the slots in the 15 but I'm not yet sure.

Thanks for your help.

Kind Regards

Me ;)

[Pdingo]

i will posting my list later;) but you know her:P

and i think burg Pyroloam:P or Punishing Burg seems nicer:P
The evolution of bUrg Tempo into a controll deck with a combo finish made in Switzerland ;))


greets

[Pdingo]

Here is my List

I'm pretty sure this Deck is a new Thing:)
enjoy it.


4 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Tropical Island
3 Volcanic Island
2 Underground Sea
4 Deathrite Shaman
2 Edric, Spymaster of Trest
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Dack Fayden
4 Brainstorm
3 Force of Will
3 Punishing Fire
1 Life from the Loam
3 Polluted Delta
3 Flooded Strand
3 Scalding Tarn
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Dark Depths
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Gitaxian Probe
2 Wasteland
3 Intuition
3 Cabal Therapy
2 Ponder


SB: 1 Krosan Grip
SB: 3 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 2 Notion Thief
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 Thoughtseize
SB: 2 Abrupt Decay
SB: 1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
SB: 1 Life from the Loam
SB: 1 Force of Will

Lands:

I prefer 9 Fetchies and 3 Volcanic Islands because of Punishing Fire. I always want 3 Volcanic islands in the Lategame.

Jace:

I like the Jace to much. I prefer 2 Jace's and i 1 Jace in the SB to side in him and crap them with Intuition. Very good against Controll.


Sideboard:

I really like this Board.

I'm not sure about Notion Thief, but they are very good against a lot blue decks like Shardless BUG or Miracle. Dack Fayden and Notion Thief are very nice together.

I prefer Krosan Grip over Grudge always. Takes Batterskull or a Sensei's Diving top.

Match ups:

testing>>>>..

[theMonster]

Hey, y'all, first post here. I saw this list cross-posted on MTGsalvation. I'm very interested in this archetype.

Could the tempo matchups be mitigated with an Engineered Explosives/Academy Ruins package? Intuition-ing for them + Life from the Loam seems powerful. Yet I see the pitfalls with EE at 0 in that it kills Young Pyromancer tokens. And do you find Deathrite Shaman to be adequate acceleration and utility? Mox Diamond, a Lands staple, is notably absent from these lists, so could you guys could speak to the decision to not run it?

Thanks.

[Pdingo]

Hei Monster

Nice that you join the Threath. :)

@ Academy Ruins/EE package. I think it's not needed here. This is a Creature Based deck. Intuition into academy and EE is nice in a Landshell Deck. But it's very slow in PyroLoam. (Land.dec slow them already down at the beginning of the game, with a fast Exploration and Diamond into loam and Maze+ Wasteland )
We try to win with Card Advange (Pyromancer and Edric) and use Controll Elements like Cabal Therapy+ Probe or Intuiton into Punishing Fire and Grove. Grove make a green or red mana. This is very important.
Academy Ruins is very bad without EE, just a colourless Mana. Grove gives us more that we Need to Play Cards out.

Player with Experience against Tempo knows. EE is ok against Tempo but not very good. ( Flipped Delver cc 0, Nimble cc1, Tarmo CC 2 etc.) Tempo is a fast Deck with a Clock. That mean in this Match up, Intuition into EE and Ruins is to slow.
That's just the Wrong Treath to fight them. And the Colourless mana of the Ruins isn't better here. We need Colour Mana.

The Way to Fight them against Tempo:

Important is you Need a lot Experience in this Match up. To know how to play around Stifle and daze is very important.
First you should play your fetchlands out and play your Creatures and make Tokens or Mana with Shaman. Just slow them down with your creatures(Tokens can block nimble and Goyfs etc.) and take the delver/stoneforge Mystics with Punishing Fire. And play FoW and Wasteland well timed. (Need Experience)
Then play Intuition into loam, Stage and Dark Dephts and try to win instead of slow them down with EE. At this Point, maybe you think ,, Well i can search EE too and slow them more down.'' That's just wrong, you Need to win fast, whenever you can do it. Just taking Time in a Match up like this is just wrong.

Sometimes you will lose Game 1. But when you do it like this you will win. The Deck have not much removal Preboard. But the Important Core is to play Removals like Abrupt Decay in the Sideboard.

Main Removal( Decay or a EE Package) is not needed. I mean you have a Sideboard for that.

@ Mox Diamond and CO.

Mox Diamond is not needed here. It's a very bad Topdeck and take Slots(Same for EE and academy Ruins) that we Need. Cantrips like Ponder and Brainstorm are very nice here and better. Same for the Gitaxian Probes.

Mox Diamond is very nice in Lands.dec or in a Junk.dec Shell. If you like a Heavy Controll Shell more you should play Lands.

BUT WHY IS THIS DECK BETTER THAN LANDS???

- It's more constant than Lands.
- It's doesnt lose to GY Hate.
- We have other Cards to controll the Game (Probe + Cabal Therapy and FoW).
- More and Flexible Win Options. We attack the Oppenent with Creatures, PWs, Discard, Counter and a Combo. ;)

This Deck play four...no (5) real Win Options!!!

1. Pyromancer+ shaman + Edric. (Basic Rout)
2. Loam into Stage and Dephts(Plan B)
3. Jace, TMS
4. Punishing Fire
(5. Dack Fayden ultimate + Punishing Fire)

So i hope helped you a Little bit :)

Still sure it's a very nice Deck with a lot Potential.

Greets from Switzerland

Pdingo








.

[theMonster]

Thanks for the quick, thorough response, Pdingo. All those points make sense.

Further questions I have:

- Piggybacking on your "Ruins is bad without EE" argument, can the same be said for Edric, Spymaster of Trest without Young Pyromancer? Do you find yourself consistently drawing enough cards to make the :1::g::u: investment worthwhile? I'm assuming it's worked out well so far - would like to hear how you settled on two copies.
- Are there any flex spots? Could one Ponder be, say, a Spell Pierce, or is the list extremely tight?
- How have you liked Notion Thief? Would you play something like Vendilion Clique in this deck's sideboard, as it is a clock in addition to disruption?
- What do you wish the deck did more efficiently so far?

Look forward to sleeving this list up eventually - need to acquire a few of the lands first. I'm currently a Tezzerator player, hence my fixation with Engineered Explosives. The reason I'm drawn to your list is because I'm looking for something that's not pure control.

[Pdingo]

@ edric

Edric is a creature, EE can just slow down a game.
Edric is a 2/2 creature. Your oppenent have to handle it.
2 is a good choice because it's legendary.
You attack the oppenent with more ways. Pyromancer + and edric.
To the same time with dephts + Stage or a planeswalker.
You need card advange in this deck. This is the way to win.
And edric is a very underrated creatures right now. He's very nice.

@ flexible slots

yes i think you can cut a jace sometimes or a ponder. But not for a counter.
1 off pierce doesnt make sence at all.

But im very happy with my List.

@notion Thief

he's just a test slot. he's not bad but you can either play clique, grim and i was thinking about a Dark Confidant.

We have to test it.

Greets Pdingo

[theMonster]

Right on. I'm gonna try a Vendilion Clique in place of one of the Ponders to provide more bodies for Edric, Spymaster of Trest. Plus, I can always target myself if I need to dig for a card. It makes Cabal Therapy slightly better, too, as it's another way to see and interact with the opponent's hand. I guess the downsides are curve considerations and removing a sorcery (read: food for Young Pyromancer).

Let me know how your testing goes. This deck looks real sweet.

[Pdingo]

ok nice men i let you know later;)

clique seems nice too;)
i will play some in the sideboard.

[theMonster]

How's your testing going? Some small things I've been thinking about:

- Instead of Red Elemental Blast, we should be playing Pyroblast, as the "if" clause could be relevant if there are no blue targets available; we could cast Pyroblast on a non-blue permanent in order to generate a Young Pyromancer token or steal a non-blue permanent after a Dack Fayden ultimate.
- With four Gitaxian Probes in the list, should we consider adding one (or even two) more impact cards? Recently I've seen quad G-Probe lists running 61 or 62 cards to some success, notably one BUG Delver deck that top 4-ed an SCG Open this month. He wrote a convincing defense of his successful 77 here (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?27874-DTB-Team-America-(BUG-Delver)/page24). One or two extra cards could allow us to run any number of things, like a fourth Force of Will, a Vendilion Clique, maybe even 2-3 Dazes (if we cut a card), or whatever else you feel the maindeck could use. I honestly don't know if it's correct - would like to hear your thoughts.

[Pdingo]

Hei

yes pyroblast seems better here;)

clique is nice here, i cut the notion thiefs for her.

@62 cards

No we dont want 62 cards in a deck.
i play 4 probes and that's nice maybe you can cut 1 at least fot a clique or a FoW.
I think 3 FoW are ok because of the blue count.
62 cards us just bad.. well 2 cards more is less consistant than 60 cards.
dont know the idea of the delver list player but it seems just bad...and in a tempo deck with delver that needs constant draws.
not that smart...and 1 top 4 is nothing.
Play always 60 cards trust me.

@Daze
No we arent a tempo deck;)
sometimes we play grove first.Daze is just good in a temposhell. And its a bad topdeck;)

greets

[theMonster]

Hey there, any updates? We have a couple Dack threads going right now. People are definitely interested in the archetype.

I've been thinking about this list a lot and had some questions:

- Is the Dark Depths combo a little slow in this list? If we don't have any of the pieces already, we have to Intuition for Depths/Thespian's Stage/Life from the Loam, then Loam back both lands, take two turns playing them, activate Stage and wait till the next attack step to swing. Could we pack a Crop Rotation or two to get the combo out faster? Maybe in the sideboard to combat the speed of opposing combo decks? That could also help us find Grove of the Burnwillows and blows out opposing Wastelands. The metagame seems like it's getting pretty fast pretty quickly, so having a spell that fuels Young Pyromancer that also expedites the combo (or the Punishing Fire lock) might be decent. Maybe we even play sideboard bullet lands like Karakas if we go that route. I dunno, though, haven't tested the deck. Just an idea.
- Notion Thief looks fun with Dack Fayden's +1, targeting the opponent. Are you bringing it in a lot, and have you "lived the dream" with it? And how good has Dack been overall? I guess he generates value by discarding Loams, Fires and Therapies. Do you like two copies?

Thanks.

[Pdingo]

Hei Monster

No updates since then, just testing the SB Slots..Well i take anyway a Summerbreak. So No time for Magic:P

Well i don't see any good Dack Deck right now, just a UR/b Imperial Painter List. Well he's not THAT Planeswalker for every Deck like Jace or Lili. He's more a Engine.
Maybe Cötters List with Reanimate and Welder could be a Thing. But i think this list is still the best way to use different Tools and Dack. It's have somany ways to win.

Carsten should take a look at this ;)

@Crop Rotation
I think it's the wrong Card in this Deck. The Card does nothing. If you want to Play Crop, you should Play Lands or Farmville. Because it's Loam based.
This deck isn't loam based, it's just the SECOND Engine to Win with dephts. We don't Need more Colours in this 4C Shell. And we Need the SB Slots.

@Notion Thief

He is very good against ,,Hard'' Controll like Miracles and BUG Controll/Shardless. But he gets handled so easy.. And the Combo is so rarely and it doesnt win:(
I Take the Thief Out and Play now 2 Vendillion Cliques in the SB. I like them a lot more. They are a good clock and do very well against Combo and Controll.

Thanks and greets Pdingo

[theMonster]

With two Edric, Spymaster of Trest in the list, do you feel that we have a reliable enough creature attack to generate the most consistent value from him? The four-color Delver decks that played an Edric had more bodies for combat, and our offense is reliant on Young Pyromancer resolving, making tokens and swinging profitably. Would you consider a Vendilion Clique or even a Tombstalker in the maindeck to increase Edric's efficacy? The latter is probably too tough to cast because of the :b::b:, but Clique seems to fit the deck's plan so well that I think a maindeck copy would be excellent.

[Pdingo]

yes a clique main seems nice maybe you can test her;)

[Pdingo]

Wins : Loses
Uwr Miracle 2
Rug Delver 1 1
POX 2
Shardless BUG 1 1
ANT 1
Maverick 2 1
Turbo Eldrazi 2


(Now 11:3 seems very nice)
The other Games i can't remember but i do write more down in the next few Weeks.

@The Monster and LIghtless

How's the testing going?

greets

[theMonster]

Thanks for the updates, Pdingo.

Do you find that this deck REALLY needs T1 Deathrite Shaman or Ponder to have the types of starts it wants? Yes, T1 Gitaxian Probe into Cabal Therapy sometimes happens - and it's been solid - but not being able to immediately flash it back diminishes the impact of the card. I've generally waited to cast Young Pyromancer till I could keep priority and play a spell. Perhaps this is a play error or too conservative of a line. Also, the Dark Depths plan feels rather slow and able to be played around, but Intuition has been very good for me, as casting it for value (Punishing Fire lock, Therapies, etc.) has frequently been a better line for me than making Marit Lage. Maybe this is a metagame issue, I dunno.

I'm running only one Dack Fayden because I only own one and replaced it with a Vendilion Clique main. So far, I've liked Clique a lot. Dack often just mills me or bins lands. It's been really situational for me.

How 'bout y'all?

[Pdingo]

Of course T1 Shaman is the best Play you can do. Or Ponder seems ok.
Sometimes i Play fetch and end the turn and play t2 Pyromancer and then i do probe him. I never play Probe on the first turn without therapy, when i'm on the Play. I think a t1 shaman or Ponder is not needed at all.
Alot i Play Fetch, fetch and then a land again. Then on the oppnenents eot i Play a Intuition (or a Clique)

Yes Marit Lage is a Little bit slow but it is against a lot Decks very nice. But it's still just the Second Win Option and i win the most Games with it.
And with Intuition we can do many things. Sometimes yes i search 3 Therapys or Punishing Lock.

Cut a Dack Fayden for a Clique is ok. I'm still playing 2 Cliques in the SB and i'm very happy with them. It's really a meta question.

Greets

[Fatal]

Played a little against Pdingo using his Pyro Loam, there are some thoughts about:

- Dack is very nice - in proper matchups - in other its not that great IMO - maybe split with Liliana ?
- some Abrupt Decay MD should be considered against deck with nasty enchantments - Miracle (Helm varation mostly), Moon effects
- Jace is nice but I think its too overcosted on this deck running cheap creatures and spells to get a value. I would rather put Liliana or an other creature Vendilion was very good - consider Delver.

[Pdingo]

Hei Fatal
Nice that you join the Disscussion.

-So to Dack. Dack is very nice, because they have to handle him. The +1 is very nice i think and we can discard usless Cards. So when he stay we can survive a lot. ;)
I never would cut a Dack Fayden. I like 2.

@ Lili, i was thinking about her, but black is just the Splash. You can test her if you want. But i think Dack and Jace are better in this List.

@Jace, He is too good for me, i was thinking to cut 1 but i realized he's a Jace and very good in this List. But of course it's Meta depended. You can cut him for a Clique or a Decay.

@Decay I think you can Play a Decay Main. But against a UWR Miracle list decay isn' so nice. Well to handle a RIP is the best Play you can do but i dont board them in. I would prefer Decay against Goyfs or Delver.
But i very like it in the Sideboard. And against the Card like Blood Moon we have to Play a Fast Clock with shaman and PYromancer. But it's the Same Problem with BUG List.Of Course we have Counter, Discard and other Hate like Decay but sometimes we have to accept him and Play a G2 or G3. And Blood Moon is not that Common.

Thanks for Join and Test the Lists;)

Greets Pdingo

[Pdingo]

First Tournament now.. just a very small one with 8 players and 3 rounds..

just 1-1-1

round 1

against MuD

2:1 nothing special but chalice can hurt us really bad preboard.

round 2

against Burn

0:2 this is the hardest match up to play against..if you know someone plays burn put 2 cards for it in the sb. otherwise in bigger tournament's ignore it^^

round 3

1:1 draw against aggro loam..well i have punish and he has punish too..
but he does playing 4 leyline of the void and they are pretty hard to beat..

well i still hoping for a bigger legacy tournament this month or next month.

greets

[hofzge]

To chime into the discussion after having played some 6-7 games against the deck with a midrangy deck (a shardless Natural Order BUG variant) I can see that you have a great game against all creature decks. The games I won were on the back of either multiple Deathrite Shamans or an unchecked Natural Order.

This leads me to believe the true weakness of the deck lie in either big Creatures with some evasion (the only removal is PFire and your elementals only block groundpounders) and fast combo decks, as well as decks with some sort of engine card advantage machine (LftL / Punishing Fire -> essentially decks that do the same thing as this deck ;)

In my opinion this is not addressed enough in the current sideboard. The weaknesses are not tackled (too few anticombo cards, nothing like ensnaring Bridge or meekstone to stop big creatures).

Other that I have to say i love that the deck can use Intuition (It's a criminally underplayed card) and the many ways in which the cards interact.

[Pdingo]

hei hofzge nice that you joining in.;)

well big creatueres like tarmogoyf or ooze are a problem, specially a big ooze ;)
i think sometimes to cut a dack fayden or a jace for one decay is ok.
i mean you have to handle a ooze very fast.. i dont care about a tarmogoyf because a inituition wins here a lot.

against fast combo we have trouble preboard only we kp a nice cabal therpay hand or a fow.
But i'm sure, postboard we have a good match up. Sometimes shaman is a very nice heatbear against fast combo decks.

Can you show us a list? would be nice

thanks
Pdingo

[hofzge]

Preboard against combo (e.g. Storm or even worse Show and Tell) you have:

3 Cabal Therapy
3 Force of Will


and situationally:

3 Intuition / 4 Brainstorm for Force of Will
4 Deathrite Shaman


Postboard you have those cards in addition:

3 Red Elemental Blast
2 Vendilion Clique
2 Thoughtseize
1 Force of Will


and situationally:

2 Surgical Extraction


I don't know if this is enough... What could be done to shore up the combo matchup?

[Pdingo]

well it's alot hate against a combo decks + controll decks. That's the point i'm thinking about.
You can use clique+Reb and thoughtseize against controll deck like miracle or blade decks.
you can use pernament hate like esnaring bridge but i havent bad excperience against SnT..
but we can test it of course

[Pdingo]

Today 22 Player Tournament..

with my list of pyroloam.. a lot of bad luck today..

Round 1 Shardless BUG 1: 2.. it's a good match up with punishing fire.


G1: mulligan to 6..easy win ..a lot tokens block his goyf and edric and pyromancer do it.
G2: mulligan to 6 .. he had to much fast wastelands and i dont find any other lands.. just 3 sinc ethe beginning..
G3. mulligan to 6.. now 3 times no lands in the first 7..but a good hand. i had 2 pyromancer and a lpt tokens then he plays the golgari charm..no problem.. loam 12 cards for a fire that could save me.. but no punishin fire and intuition in 30 cards. GG

Round 2:

mono black reanimator 2:1

G1: i play probe and see a land discard, a imp , a reanimate and ritual. i say go and he draw the entomb on his first turn^^
G2: shaman wins
G3: shaman again.

Round 3
12 post 2:0

well won bouth games easy with wasteland loam...


Round 4

MUD Post 2:1

G1 he play trinisphere and a golem and i concede..
G2 mulligan to 6 Dack fayden wins here;)
G3 mulligan to 6 bouth fast game.. fow his golem and play pyromancer and a thoughtseize and won the game.


Round 5
Belcher 1:2 bad bad luck...

G1: 1 therapy and a fow with blue split in hand.. but just a dephts but i kp it and hope fpr a land..
dont draw any land..12 goblins do the game

G2: a lot therapys + fow wins;)

G3: therapy + fow and then i played a clique
and take his last belcher. he draw..now his field is a chrome mox and a tinder wall.then after 2 turns he have 3 cards in hand
he play riiit..belcher... and LED-.- lol really?
bad luck 3:2...i really like the deck still;)

[movingtonewao]

Hi Pdingo, I chanced upon this thread while looking for a deck to play. What would you say are the best and worst matchups for this deck?

[Pdingo]

It's a Deck to Play;) it's very strong;)

Match ups in coming...

[Pdingo]

Match Up

Maybe a new real Primer would be nice but no time for that...
Anyway here are some important Match ups.

Esper Stoneblade/Deathblade

60/40 for the Whole Match
Bouth Deck are slow. Just Nemesis can be nut. Cabal Therapy on Equipments, Nemesis and StP is important. Handle a Stoneforge or a Shaman with a fire is very nice.
Side in every Removal like decay and a Krosan Grip. I Play a Null Rod too. Clique and REB is very nice too. If you Play Discard like Thoughtseize you should side in him.
I take out the Probes because we now alot of the Hand. You can take out the FoWs. Card Advange is very important here;) The Intution Plan is very nice against every Controll deck.

Miracle

55/45 in the First Round
60/40 after SB i think
It's a better Match up. Kp in the mind the counterbalance and the EoA. If you on the Play Discard the Top with therapy. if you have one^^. Sometimes i kp second Pyromancer in the Hand. After a Terminus he's very nice.
Punishing and Intuition is the key here. Rarely they have Blood Moon. If you cant handle him... Don't care we can play Game 3;)
Ensnaring Bridges, Null Rod, REB and Clique are damn good. Discard is nice also. I also side in a Grip. I take out 1 FOW,1 Dack Fayden and the Probes.

Match up follows...Right now no time..

[movingtonewao]

Hi again Pdingo, it would be really helpful if you can write a bit on matchups and how to play against them.

Especially against the hot decks now like miracles, RUG and BUG delver, Shardless BUG, D&T...it would be good encouragement for more people to try this deck.

Also, if you would like me to proofread your english for a primer for this deck, I would be willing to do so :) I like your idea and hope it takes off.

[Pdingo]

Hei Moving
Thanks men:)

Well it isn't an Idea of mine. It was an Idea of a Friend. But i'd changed it a Little bit.
Yes i will probably writre a Primer+important Match ups and Sideboardplanings, but give me a Little bit more time..very busy right now.

And sorry i try to write a better english;)

Here a Little List for some bad Match ups and very Hard ones:

The Hardest One...

BURN

bader Match ups (Hand depends)

Combo Decks like Reanimate,Belcher, Oops, TES, ANT. Fast Combo in g1 is hard.

You can hurt Decks like SnT very hard with a good placed Therapy in the first game. But still a 40/60 in the first game.
Blood Moon Decks are just hard if you have no shaman and pyromancer. YOu can still cast some of your Cards. 40/60 first Game. i do rarely lose one.

The Good Thing is with the sideboard combination :you will rarely lose a Game after SB using against a Combo Deck. If i lose a Game i just missplayed it beacause it's not a easy Deck to Play and need alot experience with it. Yes of Course, sometimes you can't win, But try it again;))

@Moving

maybe you can test it a Little bit and post your experience here. A Little bit Experience of other People would be nice for the Match ups and Primer.

[SirTylerGalt]

This deck looks interesting. I brewed a RUG deck with Intuition / Punishing Fire / Pyromancer / Loam a few months ago with some success (made the deck a few hours before the tournament, finished 3rd out of 40+), so I'm interested in seeing how it works with Dack Fayden and Thespian Stage / Dark Depth.

I'm not sure I want to play Edric in a deck with only 10 creatures though. I'd rather play more control spells and use Deathrite Shaman / Young Pyromancer as creatures.

@Pdingo: what's your latest list?

[Pdingo]

Hei SyrTylerGalt

Thanks for joining:)

here is my List:

4 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Tropical Island
3 Volcanic Island
2 Underground Sea
4 Deathrite Shaman
2 Edric, Spymaster of Trest (10 Creatures is ok. i know it seems not much but with Tokens and edric wins alot. They have to handle him. Just test him. He's so good and underrated)
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Brainstorm
3 Force of Will
3 Punishing Fire
1 Life from the Loam
3 Polluted Delta
3 Flooded Strand
3 Scalding Tarn
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Dark Depths
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Gitaxian Probe
2 Wasteland
3 Intuition
3 Cabal Therapy
2 Ponder
2 Dack Fayden

SB: 1 Krosan Grip
SB: 2 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 Thoughtseize
SB: 2 Abrupt Decay
SB: 1 Force of Will
SB: 2 Vendilion Clique
SB: 1 Fire Covenant
SB: 2 Ensnaring Bridge
SB: 1 Null Rod

For more Creature you can cut a Intuition or a PW for a Clique. Would be ok.

Greets Dingo

[movingtonewao]

no problem about the english pdingo, that's why I volunteered to help. You can email me at glimmervoid@gmail.com whenever you're ready and I'll make the english better.

as for edric, I think 1 is the right number. He looks stupid when he's out on the field alone. I feel we rely too much on pyromancer. I feel this deck needs more creatures. If my opponent kills my pyromancer and surgical extraction / extirpates it, it hurts me a lot.

[Pdingo]

Thanks men but it itn's a big Problem so^^

Anyway yesterday Top 8ed in a 22 People Tournament.

First Match

Against a Friend with MUD. 2:1

Game 1: He's to fast and i countered the wrong Card. I countered the Emperion instead of the Lodestonegolem. We have to handle Lodegolem because he take us out of the Game. In this Situation i could just block with my Pyromancer token and bounce emperion with a Jace..anyway Game 1 is 40/60

Game 2: I won now with Pyromancer and Dack Fayden.

Game 3: Mulligan to 5..But i drawet into FOW, BS, Land Shaman,Wasteland. So it seems very nice haha. I get a Little but lucky and he missplayed a Wurmcoil Engine and just played her Main Phase 2 instead of Mainphase 1 with a open greaves,i just played clique and he was on 3 Life;))

Match 2

Punishing Fire Nic-Fit 2:0

Not much to say i won bouth Games with Dephts.

Match 3 Against Elves. 0:2

Game 1 he won clearly. We Need really a punishing Fire here.

Game 2 I punished him a lot away and discarded him a few turns his Hand away. Then i just Need a turn i would win the Game. I played Therapy and discarded the Last two Cards in his Hand. Natural Order and the 15/15 Wurm, he Shuffle him in the library and i shuffles his library. He had now 4 manae field. He had 2 elves and 1 land and a dryad. He draw. Natural Order...so behemoth and i lost-.- well lucky for him but happens.

Match 4 against elves 2:0

This Time i won bouth Games with fire and FoW.


Match 5 against a Friend (POX) we played and i won 2:1 but we drawet because bouth top 8ed anyway^^

Game 1 He won with double Wasteland, sinkhole and POx;)

Game 2 I can resolve a Jace and a Pyromancer. The Tokens are very nice too.

Game 3. He had no clock and wasted my lands. but i still played lands and take them back with loam. I Punishing fired a lili and him away:P

TOP 8

Well not much to say.. Against Miracle.. i think it's a 55/45 Match up but this time i played poorly and drawet not that good.¨
0:2

I kp a Hand with 2 Probes, grove, wasteland, pyromancer, ponder and a fire on the draw. Well i dont draw any land...i think the Hand was not that bad..but we really need early Land Drops against Miracle.

G2: I had a good Hand with jace, therapy, shaman, fetch, BS , waste and intuiton. Now the Same.. i dont draw any land for few turns.

Maybe the first Hand was a little bit greedy but a fire is important in the first Game.

Well Top 8 is ok^^

Greets Dingo

[Pdingo]

Hei Guys

It's a Long Time ago since i write down something.

The Meta changed and here's my new List:

3 Punishing Fire
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Ponder
2 Dack Fayden
4 Brainstorm
2 Intuition
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Deathrite Shaman
2 Edric, Spymaster of Trest
3 Force of Will
3 Cabal Therapy
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Polluted Delta
3 Scalding Tarn
1 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea
3 Volcanic Island
2 Wasteland
1 Dark Depths
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Life from the Loam
4 Gitaxian Probe

SB: 1 Force of Will
SB: 3 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 1 Null Rod
SB: 2 Ensnaring Bridge
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 Vendilion Clique
SB: 1 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 2 Chill
SB: 1 Elecktrickery

I've cutted the Jace's because of the Delver and Burn Decks. Decay on a Playset right now. And i think Chill is not that bad also;) Punishing Fire is very nice still against all those UR/UWR/Burg Delver's

Greets Dingo

[anwei]

This looks fun. May not be viable, space-wise, but lots of cantrips, dack, and loam dredging seem to scream for delve spells, no?

[AfroSmile]

Hi, I'm trying to make a transition from BURG to another deck and this one seems really pretty!
Thanks to talk about this deck! :-)


This looks fun. May not be viable, space-wise, but lots of cantrips, dack, and loam dredging seem to scream for delve spells, no?

Maybe Dig Through Time could be in! It seems really nice in the deck and really combo with Dack and Intuition. I may be wrong but I think it's a card to consider.

[Pdingo]

Hei Guys

sry for the late reply..was busy;)

@anwei
thanks for join the treath:) Yes i Show you my new list. The Thing is we cant play much delve spells.

@Afrosmile

Hei afro, how are you?;)
Thank, yeah we know burg very good and i think now this is really Thing.

Now to my List:

3 Punishing Fire
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
2 Dack Fayden
4 Brainstorm
2 Intuition
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Deathrite Shaman
2 Edric, Spymaster of Trest
3 Force of Will
3 Cabal Therapy
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Polluted Delta
3 Scalding Tarn
1 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea
3 Volcanic Island
2 Wasteland
1 Dark Depths
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Life from the Loam
4 Gitaxian Probe
1 Dig Through Time


Sideboard:

SB: 1 Force of Will
SB: 1 Null Rod
SB: 1 Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 Vendilion Clique
SB: 1 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 1 Electrickery
SB: 3 Pyroblast
SB: 1 Sylvan Library
SB: 3 Hydroblast
SB: 1 Ancient Grudge
SB: 1 Dread of Night

In the MB we have now alot more decay's. Jace's are not that good anymore in a aggressive Meta. Decay can destroy a CB too, And it cant be countered, same to crap a delver, Tarmo or a pyromancer.
4 off is the right number;)

i cut 1 Intuition because i think 2 are enough. i cut the 1off Ponder because it's not that good in the Lategame. Sometimes it's nice with pyro but with the new Delve Cards a la Dig Through time we have better Option for the Lategame.

Dig through time is the new Thing. RIght now 1off. It's very nice :) Give you what you needed and dont hurt your gy to much.

Now to the Sideboard:
I cut the Chills and the Bridges because we have better Options.
The Answer for UR Delver and Burn is Hydroblast. He's very nice. Just slow them down and win with Dephts or Pyromancer.
And he does much in bouth of those Match ups. Chill is just good against Burn.
I take in a Sylvan Library for Miracle. And a Grudge for Mud. ( We have alot MuD in Switzerland)
Elecktrickery is nice against Creatures and Pyrodecks. You can Play 2 or 3 of course.

The Deck and his perfect Synergy is well placed right now.
The Meta right now isn't that fast anymore since the start of the Delve Cards. Alot Players dont Play Wastelands like UR and UWR.
Punishing Fire is very strong right now.

We take a look on the Tier 1 Decks on the Source: (My Experience)

Miracle: I like the Match up. Punishing Fire and Young Pyromancer shines here. Same for Dack. After Boarding we have alot things like Library and Blasts. Null Rod is very strong here. 60/40
Bug Delver: A Good Match up too. Decay and Punishing Fire take the Threat's. 60/40
Ur Delver: We have Removal, they have removal. Punishing Fire shines here too. 50/50 , 55/45
Elves: Well in the first Game, they can be too fast. but after Boarding, elecktrickery, Punishing, Cage and fow should do it most of the time. 40/60 , 60/40
UWR Delver: Hardest Delver Decks, Stp and bolt+ Wastelands too. But decay and fire shines here too.After the Boarding we have alot hate. 40/60 , 60/40

Some other Tier Decks that should be Deck to beat^^

ANT: My Pet deck, well Combo is harder in G1 without a good placed Therapy, but for that we have a Sideboard: 30/70, it depends on the Sb. We dont have alot Stormdecks in Switzerland. So i Play less Storm hate.
With the posted Sb i think it is 50/50.

SnT: Same like AnT. 35/65, With this Sideboard it should be 60/40

Burn: Well G1 is harder. 40/60, G2 is like 55/45 with the Hate.

Death and Taxes: If they start and Play a T 1 Mother and a T2 Thalia it's hard to win. 45/55, but in G2 we have alot Hate. Fire shines here and Decay too. 60'/40.

UWR Stoneblade: 55/45, They dont Play Wasteland and Stifle. Punishing fire is too good here. After Sideboard 65/35.





So guys, i hope for a lot Replys;)) The Deck has alot potential. I hope some People can push it too. It's a blast to Play!

Greeets and feel freee to Post

Dingo:)

[theMonster]

Anyone dusting off this list? Feels like midrange might be coming back with the banning of Dig Through Time, and this can go over the top of lots of those lists 'cuz of the Dark Depths plan.

Thoughts?

[Pdingo]

yep was playing a list from a month without dephts.. but with dig.
but no chances against some Decks with dig like burg delver..
i was very bad (2:3)
i will post the list tomorrow.

[Pdingo]

4 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Force of Will
2 Dig Through Time
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Brainstorm
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Abrupt Decay
2 Punishing Fire
2 Underground Sea
3 Volcanic Island
1 Tropical Island
4 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Wasteland
2 Gurmag Angler

SB: 3 Pyroblast
SB: 2 Hydroblast
SB: 1 Pithing Needle
SB: 1 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 1 Null Rod
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 Vendilion Clique
SB: 1 Fire Covenant
SB: 1 Sylvan Library
SB: 1 Izzet Staticaster
SB: 1 Ancient Grudge


Old List before Bannings

Jace is nice;)

Dingo