Burning Reanimator

[kingsey]

Has anyone started tweaking this idea and list?

http://www.starcitygames.com/article/28608_Burning-Reanimator-in-Legacy.html

[davelin]

Has anyone started tweaking this idea and list?

http://www.starcitygames.com/article/28608_Burning-Reanimator-in-Legacy.html

Goldfished a few games, immediately put in 4 Faithless Looting since that felt like it would help the game plan immensely. Felt the deck just wasn't consistent enough but could be inexperience or small sample size.

[jcsy]

http://www.starcitygames.com/article/28507_Eternal-Europe-Innovation-Spotlight.html
Creatures (9)

1 Simian Spirit Guide
1 Sire of Insanity
4 Griselbrand
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
2 Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur
Lands (13)

1 Swamp
4 Badlands
1 Bloodstained Mire
2 Marsh Flats
2 Polluted Delta
2 Scrubland
1 Verdant Catacombs
Spells (38)

4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
4 Dark Ritual
4 Entomb
4 Burning Wish
4 Exhume
3 Gamble
4 Thoughtseize
4 Unburial Rites
3 Unmask
Sideboard

1 Ashen Rider
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Cabal Therapy
3 Empty the Warrens
1 Massacre
1 Meltdown
1 Reanimate
1 Stitch Together
3 Stronghold Gambit
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Unmask

Look at the bottom, the 2 decklists by Danielle and have a look at the comments :)

1) The traditonal Entomb into Exhume plan (cast Entomb on 1, Exhume on 2).

2) Put Exhume on the stack and sacrifice LED to discard your hand, including your fattie.

3) Draw a fattie, a land, an LED, and an Unburial Rites (play the land, crack LED for white, and flashback the Rites).

4) Draw a fattie, a LED, two mana sources, and a Burning Wish (cast Burning Wish, sacrifice LED in response, and find either Reanimate or the exceedingly cute Stitch Together).

5) Fatty plus Burning Wish (for Stronghold Gambit; cast it against creatureless decks/opponents who you know don't have creatures in hand thanks to your discard).

6) If you can't find a fatty, cast some mana acceleration and Wish for Empty the Warrens to just beat down with Goblin tokens a la Storm.

7) Grind through countermagic by hardcasting Unburtial Rites (likely with the help of Dark Ritual), then flashing it back.

[Technics]

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?23891-Bargain-Welder/page3

Try here...

If someone wants to make a proper Primer, I will update the OP.

[Rood]

I met the guy who invented this deck and while I play GB Reanimator myself I find this deck pretty filthy. Definitely worth testing

[CabalTherapy]

I met the guy who invented this deck and while I play GB Reanimator myself I find this deck pretty filthy. Definitely worth testing

I am working on this deck. It feels like a gigantic mutation of storm and reanimator.
I have added green to BR in order to play Abrupt Decay in the SB. In addition, I am running a full set of Faithless Looting instead of Gamble and one discard spell.
This is really a sick deck. :cool:

Are there any recent results of the two inventors from Italy?

[DarkJester]

I am working on this deck. It feels like a gigantic mutation of storm and reanimator.
I have added green to BR in order to play Abrupt Decay in the SB. In addition, I am running a full set of Faithless Looting instead of Gamble and one discard spell.
This is really a sick deck. :cool:

Are there any recent results of the two inventors from Italy?

Sorry for the question,
why is there a single SSG in the List? Just another source of red fast mana?

[CabalTherapy]

Sorry for the question,
why is there a single SSG in the List? Just another source of red fast mana?

Well, Anthony Lowry explains it as being another way of playing around Daze. Although he admits that
it could be another land or Chrome Mox. I am currently testing 13 lands and 1 Mox instead of the random SSG which looks not
really impressive.

[DarkJester]

Well, Anthony Lowry explains it as being another way of playing around Daze. Although he admits that
it could be another land or Chrome Mox. I am currently testing 13 lands and 1 Mox instead of the random SSG which looks not
really impressive.

I really like this deck, goldfished it today a few times. Maybe I try it out in Hannover next time. Recognized you RugStar-Guys there last time, if you plan to join the next event we could chit chat a little bit about this brew. Cause I cashed out (remaining duals for edh: Sea,Trop,Bayou), being on the all-in-dredge-trip I will play it with a Rainbow-only-Manabase. Just realized that this disables Massacre and need a substitution.

Cheers

[CabalTherapy]

I really like this deck, goldfished it today a few times. Maybe I try it out in Hannover next time. Recognized you RugStar-Guys there last time, if you plan to join the next event we could chit chat a little bit about this brew. Cause I cashed out (remaining duals for edh: Sea,Trop,Bayou), being on the all-in-dredge-trip I will play it with a Rainbow-only-Manabase. Just realized that this disables Massacre and need a substitution.

Cheers

Sure.
Hannover is all about Delver and Dredge, as far as I can remember.
Maybe we manage to get there in August or September.
I would recommend Gemstone Mine (A. Lowrly mentioned it too) and one Bayou in order to support Decay and Unburial Rites' flashback costs.
Pyroclasm should be also ok, but Massacre being a free spell is certainly a feature difficult to replace. Admittedly, 4 Badlands seems a bit too much but I can't tell more since
my testing is based on looking at the list :rolleyes:, goldfishing and some goldfishing with SB cards. But I guess, I can assemble the cards I lack in reasonable time to smash real life opponents and to test some more.

[DarkJester]

Hannover is all about Delver and Dredge, as far as I can remember.

Delver, yeah. Dredge is not to common. Most of the time I'm the only Dredge-Guy, but on the weekend you where there the meta was surprisingly infested with Dredge.


I would recommend Gemstone Mine (A. Lowrly mentioned it too) and one Bayou in order to support Decay and Unburial Rites' flashback costs.

Between Confluences, Cities, Mines and a one-off Paradise it shouldn't be too hard to support AD.


Pyroclasm should be also ok, but Massacre being a free spell is certainly a feature difficult to replace.

I played ANT and TES a long time and want to kill through a MoR, so the next best out would be Marsh Casualties, unfortunately. And even this 2 Mana card could be hard to resolve between Wastes, Thalia and Ports. The next addition to the SB should be Void Snare, I think.

[CabalTherapy]

I played ANT and TES a long time and want to kill through a MoR, so the next best out would be Marsh Casualties, unfortunately. And even this 2 Mana card could be hard to resolve between Wastes, Thalia and Ports. The next addition to the SB should be Void Snare, I think.

You're right. Void Snare is coming. Should be a good addition to the Wish Board.

[JanoschEausH]

Might be a stupid question, but why are there 2 Scrublands in the original list?

[DarkJester]

Might be a stupid question, but why are there 2 Scrublands in the original list?

You need W to flashback Unburial Rites. You won't always have LED or Petal.

[TheYoungster]

I've been testing this deck for the past week or so and it's been a blast to play. There have only been a few problems, mainly the fact that if you go all in and fail or just get hellbent there isn't really a way to top deck better than say, ub reanimator, since they have brainstorm and ponder to help set up their next few draws. The flexibility of entomb, gamble, and burning wish is very good though and allows for more lines than the ub variant which is pretty sweet, and burning wish is usually really good bait for counterspells.

[CabalTherapy]

I've been testing this deck for the past week or so and it's been a blast to play. There have only been a few problems, mainly the fact that if you go all in and fail or just get hellbent there isn't really a way to top deck better than say, ub reanimator, since they have brainstorm and ponder to help set up their next few draws. The flexibility of entomb, gamble, and burning wish is very good though and allows for more lines than the ub variant which is pretty sweet, and burning wish is usually really good bait for counterspells.

As far as I can state due to goldfishing, tweaking and watching another dude play this deck, it is better than TES. That's for sure.

[P-E]

Cabal > do you have a list to test ?

[CabalTherapy]

Cabal > do you have a list to test ?

Yes.
I've added Gamble again because Looting wasn't that much exciting.

1 Sire of Insanity
4 Griselbrand
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
2 Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur (worst dude in the deck)

4 Lotus Petal
4 Dark Ritual
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
1 Chrome Mox (better than random SSG)
4 Entomb
4 Exhume
4 Unburial Rites
3 Unmask
3 Thoughtseize (not sure about the 4th)
4 Gamble (maybe a 3/1 split with Looting and 1 Gamble in the side)
4 Burning Wish

13 lands consisting of Badlands, Swamp, Fetchlands. Options like Bayou, Gemstone Mine, Mountain, Scrubland are also possible due to sideboard cards (Decay: yes or no?, or Vindicate which was suggested by fellow player). Essentially it is still close to Terra's build with some tweaks here and there.

My sideboard consists of following cards:
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Stitch Together
1 Reanimate
3 Stronghold Gambit
1 Shattering Spree/Meltdown
1 discard spell (Unmask or the 4th Thouthseize)
1 Massacre
1 Pyroclasm
(Decay, Vindicate)
1 random fatty like Elesh Norn


Big D played this deck on Thursday in a small tournament here in Berlin and said that this deck can beat everything and has Belcher-like draws with protection.
Even this core build feels stronger than TES and the notion that fast combo decks only run weak protection or none and slow combo decks are the safest may be proven the opposite by this deck.

[Worldslayer]

Normal reanimator pilot chiming in. First off, Sire is the real deal and I've appropriated him for the UB shell of the deck. Card is nuts.

Secondly, given the large amounts of fast mana and quantity of spells the deck can produce, would a step away from the normal Reanimator strategy of "make and protect a fatty" and towards TinFins' "just kill them" approach be awful? Shallow Grave works with LED just as much as Exhume does, gives you a free seven cards, and modern tin fins lists only ran one Emrakul to entomb for anyway, so your unburial rites plan is still safe more often than not. Just throwing it out there as it seems like this deck splits the difference between the two when I've played against it, but would be stronger at the "all in" combo approach than The Onion Burst if built to that end.


Thoughts? Has anyone tried that variant yet?

[TheyCallMeTim]

I'm sure you guys are tired of the "why not play this instead" response, but have you seen the mono black version? It's more disruptive, more redundant and more powerful. If this isn't the right place for it and there's another thread (I haven't been able to find), please feel free to direct me.

// Lands
15 Swamp

// Creatures
1 Borborygmos Enraged
4 Griselbrand

// Spells
2 Animate Dead
2 Buried Alive
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Chrome Mox
4 Dark Ritual
4 Entomb
4 Goryo's Vengeance
4 Lotus Petal
4 Shallow Grave
3 Soul Spike
1 Tendrils of Agony
2 Thoughtseize
4 Unmask

Sideboards have varied between reactionary disruption and transforming into MBC or Leyline / Helm combo.

[jonnnny]

I'm sure you guys are tired of the "why not play this instead" response, but have you seen the mono black version? It's more disruptive, more redundant and more powerful. If this isn't the right place for it and there's another thread (I haven't been able to find), please feel free to direct me.

I'm not sure I'd call it more redundant. The monoblack list is more akin to Tin Fins. The namesake card of Burning Reanimator is Burning Wish which opens up a lot of options/redundancy in the face of graveyard hate (Stronghold Gambit, or storm with ETW and ToA).

[TheyCallMeTim]

I'm not sure I'd call it more redundant

With 10 each of every spell you'd ever want (discard, reanimation and targets) the Turn 1s with this deck are insanely frequent.


The monoblack list is more akin to Tin Fins.

It certainly is. I understand it's not the same deck as this, but it has the power of Tin Fins with the consistency of Reanimator-like hybrids, which seems to be what this deck is going for (at the expense of some resilience, I suppose).

[CabalTherapy]

I'm sure you guys are tired of the "why not play this instead" response, but have you seen the mono black version? It's more disruptive, more redundant and more powerful. If this isn't the right place for it and there's another thread (I haven't been able to find), please feel free to direct me.

// Lands
15 Swamp

// Creatures
1 Borborygmos Enraged
4 Griselbrand

// Spells
2 Animate Dead
2 Buried Alive
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Chrome Mox
4 Dark Ritual
4 Entomb
4 Goryo's Vengeance
4 Lotus Petal
4 Shallow Grave
3 Soul Spike
1 Tendrils of Agony
2 Thoughtseize
4 Unmask

Sideboards have varied between reactionary disruption and transforming into MBC or Leyline / Helm combo.

Well, this deck lacks Lion's Eye Diamond. I have been playing a similar kind of deck back then long time before anyone at WotC has thought about Griselbrand.
It can certainly win some matches but fails to win through any graveyard hate. Burning Reanimator has the sweet LED sac > Unburial Rites or Rit, Rit, LED, Burning Wish > Stormspell.

[civet five]

Yes.
I've added Gamble again because Looting wasn't that much exciting.

1 Sire of Insanity
4 Griselbrand
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
2 Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur (worst dude in the deck)

4 Lotus Petal
4 Dark Ritual
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
1 Chrome Mox (better than random SSG)
4 Entomb
4 Exhume
4 Unburial Rites
3 Unmask
3 Thoughtseize (not sure about the 4th)
4 Gamble (maybe a 3/1 split with Looting and 1 Gamble in the side)
4 Burning Wish

13 lands consisting of Badlands, Swamp, Fetchlands. Options like Bayou, Gemstone Mine, Mountain, Scrubland are also possible due to sideboard cards (Decay: yes or no?, or Vindicate which was suggested by fellow player). Essentially it is still close to Terra's build with some tweaks here and there.

My sideboard consists of following cards:
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Stitch Together
1 Reanimate
3 Stronghold Gambit
1 Shattering Spree/Meltdown
1 discard spell (Unmask or the 4th Thouthseize)
1 Massacre
1 Pyroclasm
(Decay, Vindicate)
1 random fatty like Elesh Norn


Big D played this deck on Thursday in a small tournament here in Berlin and said that this deck can beat everything and has Belcher-like draws with protection.
Even this core build feels stronger than TES and the notion that fast combo decks only run weak protection or none and slow combo decks are the safest may be proven the opposite by this deck.

As much as I love Jin-Gitaxias, I just don't think he's good enough. If I was going to an SCG with this list, I would really want an Empyrial Archangel in my MD instead of a Jin-Gitaxias, and would probably cut the 2nd J-G for an Ob-Nixilis or Inkwell Leviathan, or even good ole Grave Titan. I think Shroud is very strong right now, and with Edict effects at a low point, only Liliana and Terminus can deal with them. Burn is hot right now and Empryial Archangel just laughs at it.

[jonnnny]

As much as I love Jin-Gitaxias, I just don't think he's good enough. If I was going to an SCG with this list, I would really want an Empyrial Archangel in my MD instead of a Jin-Gitaxias, and would probably cut the 2nd J-G for an Ob-Nixilis or Inkwell Leviathan, or even good ole Grave Titan. I think Shroud is very strong right now, and with Edict effects at a low point, only Liliana and Terminus can deal with them. Burn is hot right now and Empryial Archangel just laughs at it.

Excellent points. I don't run Jin-Gitaxias myself because I think it is a poor substitute for griselbrand #5-6. Shroud is definitely relevant in some games vs a resolved JTMS for example. I was going for the hasty beater plan via Hellkite Overlord (8/8 flying trample haste) and even toying with Reckless Charge in the sideboard (fun fact: can be entombed and paid for with an LED). Empryial Archangel is interesting, but I think getting a quick Griselbrand into play is enough to seal the game vs Burn.

[civet five]

Excellent points. I don't run Jin-Gitaxias myself because I think it is a poor substitute for griselbrand #5-6. Shroud is definitely relevant in some games vs a resolved JTMS for example. I was going for the hasty beater plan via Hellkite Overlord (8/8 flying trample haste) and even toying with Reckless Charge in the sideboard (fun fact: can be entombed and paid for with an LED). Empryial Archangel is interesting, but I think getting a quick Griselbrand into play is enough to seal the game vs Burn.

I find Burn to be tricky with all variations of Reanimator. Thoughtseize reads "B: prevent 1+ damage" and Daze and Pierce act as Time Walks by slowing down how much fire gets thrown at your face. This deck has a few key deficiencies vs the UB Reanimator lists in the Burn matchup, namely:
1) Daze and Pierce act as Time Walks, while we "only" have Hymn as a Double-walk. So half the cards for double the effect.
2) Brainstorm and Ponder do help to setup Goblin Guide triggers, which helps make land drops and combo out.
3) Burning Reanimator's manabase isn't so strong as to always be able to fetch Swamp+Mountain --> PoP hits for 4+ damage. I'm not even entirely sure the deck can afford a Mountain, as I'm currently on 3 Badland 2 Scrubland 1 Plateau 1 Swamp 6 Fetches to make sure I always have access to the colors I need.

Just some food for thought. I realize I'm overplaying the Burn matchup, but I recently just ran into a bunch of it and I think it poses a nasty enemy to Reanimator decks. Like I said, I wouldn't leave home without Empyrial Archangel, but that doesn't mean its wrong or anything. I just think she's a sexy BOSS

[[SLAYER]chaos]

This deck looks super fun to play with, I'm gonna build it on modo this weekend and try it out.

[kingsey]

Isn't iona better vs burn then archangel?

She is also GG vs elves, high tide and mono black pox/ the gate.

I've won so many games on her shoulders

[CabalTherapy]

Isn't iona better vs burn then archangel?

She is also GG vs elves, high tide and mono black pox/ the gate.

I've won so many games on her shoulders


By the way, I tested this deck against burg Delver and it was horrible. Gamble was very bad all day and essentially I didn't have outs against a Deathrite who is protected with Counterspells
and manadenial. I won one game out of (I guess) 7. I really missed Ponder/Brainstorm to give this deck a bit more flow.

[alderon666]

I played this deck a bit and got some mixed results. But instead of 3x Gamble I used 3x Faithless Looting and a golden manabase for sideboard Abupt Decay (mainly against RIP and CB).

The deck is extremely powerful. But it's just waaaaay too inconsistent. Sometimes I would get a turn 1 kill with double Unmask and sometimes I would play double Faithless and never find a creature.

The bane of this deck is those pesky tempo decks that just draw a single Delver and a bazilion Dazes/Forces/Wastelands/Flusterstorms/Graveyard hate. Other than that I lost only a few time to nonblue decks that drew the odd Surgical against my turn 1 all-in hand.

I really like the deck, but the variance just killed it for me. This deck literally has some hands that your opponent could do nothing for 7 turns and you still wouldn't be able to win. And other times you would just win turn 1 through double Force.

[heathen]

Yes.
I've added Gamble again because Looting wasn't that much exciting.

1 Sire of Insanity
4 Griselbrand
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
2 Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur (worst dude in the deck)


Are any maindeck creatures besides Sire, Griselbrand, and Iona even necessary? I don't think I'd ever tutor for Jin-Gitaxis over those three, and in my limited goldfishing with the deck I haven't had any problems locating a dude to reanimate (either with the tutors or through digging with Looting).

[jonnnny]

Are any maindeck creatures besides Sire, Griselbrand, and Iona even necessary? I don't think I'd ever tutor for Jin-Gitaxis over those three, and in my limited goldfishing with the deck I haven't had any problems locating a dude to reanimate (either with the tutors or through digging with Looting).

Elesh-Norn or inkwell may be worth consideration.
The problem with Jin-Gitaxias is it doesn't win you the game on the spot like Griselbrand or Sire can since they still get a turn with a full grip to answer your threat. And if you're going for a beatdown plan I think inkwell leviathan is just better.

I've also replaced my Gambles with Faithless looting (keeping 1 gamble in the board as a wishable entomb effect).

[heathen]

I played the following list at a small tournament yesterday:

1 Sire of Insanity
4 Griselbrand
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Inkwell Leviathan

4 Dark Ritual
4 Entomb
1 Faithless Looting
2 Gamble
4 Thoughtseize
4 Burning Wish
4 Exhume
3 Cabal Therapy
4 Unburial Rites

1 Chrome Mox
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal

3 Badlands
1 Scrubland
1 Swamp
1 Gemstone Mine
3 Polluted Delta
2 Bloodstained Mire
3 Marsh Flats

Sideboard:

1 Cabal Therapy
3 Pyroblast
1 Reanimate
1 Revoke Existence
2 Stronghold Gambit
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Vindicate
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Massacre
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Ashen Rider

My first thought was that I want to move one Exhume to the sideboard as a Burning Wish target (I'll add another Faithless Looting to the main in its place). Also I don't think I need two Stronghold Gambit in the board. The card is extremely narrow and I only see myself using it as a Wish target. The Chrome Mox will likely be swapped out for another Gemstone Mine. Inkwell Leviathan was actually pretty good, and I'll probably keep it in. At no point did I want Jin-Gitaxias.

Overall I liked the deck. I definitely made some mistakes so I can't blame my poor showing on the deck (I think I went 1-3, though I don't remember for sure...I certainly was no better than 2-2).

[[SLAYER]chaos]

Simian Spirit Guide has been leagues better than Chrome Mox in the testing I've done so far. Losing the card for Mox has been hard pre Griselbrand. And you almost always only have a black card to pitch when when you really just need red mana. CM is certainly better after you start drawing 7, but at that point it's hard to lose anyway.

[jonnnny]

chaos;828167']Simian Spirit Guide has been leagues better than Chrome Mox in the testing I've done so far. Losing the card for Mox has been hard pre Griselbrand. And you almost always only have a black card to pitch when when you really just need red mana. CM is certainly better after you start drawing 7, but at that point it's hard to lose anyway.

I agree with Simian Spirit Guide over Chrome Mox.

The idea behind Stronghold Gambit is to function as a 2 mana show and tell after boarding to play around graveyard hate. I found the problem with this is the lack of consistency in drawing both gambit and a fattie by turn 2. I would either board in 3 gambits or none at all.

A couple cards I've been trying in the sideboard are Reckless Charge and Overmaster.
Reckless Charge is for a post-griselbrand wish target to allow for an attack with Griselbrand to help win on the same turn. Draw 7 + wish for reckless charge + LED to flashback for +6/+0 is pretty good but maybe it's a bit win-more since sticking a Griselbrand itself is usually enough.
Overmaster hasn't been impressive vs miracles since it just gets countered itself with cb/top. Abrupt decay is definitely a better answer and would moreso justify the rainbow landbase over fetches.

[paradigm72]

Does anybody have a good wish target for finding a creature off a Burning Wish, in a slower game? I've looked at Sylvan Tutor (the extra turn might be too slow), Grim Tutor (mana cost might be too much), and Infernal Tutor (really only works if you have LED). Not sure which is the best overall or if there's one I'm missing. Gamble would work, but is risky with Exhume.

Played a 4-round tournament yesterday and I had 2 games come up where a sketchy hand may have been keepable if I had additional ways to get creatures. I'd love to have the redundancy of both Entomb and Burning Wish finding both halves of the combo.

[ntropy]

Does anybody have a good wish target for finding a creature off a Burning Wish, in a slower game? I've looked at Sylvan Tutor (the extra turn might be too slow), Grim Tutor (mana cost might be too much), and Infernal Tutor (really only works if you have LED). Not sure which is the best overall or if there's one I'm missing. Gamble would work, but is risky with Exhume.

Played a 4-round tournament yesterday and I had 2 games come up where a sketchy hand may have been keepable if I had additional ways to get creatures. I'd love to have the redundancy of both Entomb and Burning Wish finding both halves of the combo.

What about spells that dig, like Faithless Looting or Goblin Lore or Burning Inquiry? Just a thought. I realize the random discard could/will be awful.

[jonnnny]

Does anybody have a good wish target for finding a creature off a Burning Wish, in a slower game? I've looked at Sylvan Tutor (the extra turn might be too slow), Grim Tutor (mana cost might be too much), and Infernal Tutor (really only works if you have LED). Not sure which is the best overall or if there's one I'm missing. Gamble would work, but is risky with Exhume.

Played a 4-round tournament yesterday and I had 2 games come up where a sketchy hand may have been keepable if I had additional ways to get creatures. I'd love to have the redundancy of both Entomb and Burning Wish finding both halves of the combo.

Living Wish perhaps? It'll mean you have to dedicate a couple sideboard slots to creatures though.
Also, Time of Need, Buried Alive, Jarad's Orders

[Final Fortune]

I don't know if this is or isn't better than TES due to its weakness to Deathrite Shaman and graveyard removal, Surgical Extraction and Faerie Macabre are no laughing matter, but it has been one of the most fun decks I have played in awhile. A couple of observations I've made while play testing, the disruption is unreliable between Unmask and Cabal Therapy, you really don't want to lose card advantage by RFGing a card of your own or naming the wrong card of theirs, and I think just playing Thoughtseize or adding Gitaxian Probe for Cabal Therapy makes the deck significantly more reliable if not as fast for when you can't discard your own cards - but that's practically gold fishing.

You need 5, maybe 6 creatures to Reanimate at most, the only creature you ever want to have in your hand is Griselbrand anway.

[[SLAYER]chaos]

Do you feel that dropping down below 8 or so creatures makes you to reliant on entomb? I'm almost never unhappy to see one of my creatures in my opening hand and can usually lead to easy turn 1 reanimation with LED

[Final Fortune]

chaos;829010']Do you feel that dropping down below 8 or so creatures makes you to reliant on entomb? I'm almost never unhappy to see one of my creatures in my opening hand and can usually lead to easy turn 1 reanimation with LED

I really dislike drawing creatures in this deck because there's no efficient way to discard creature barring LED, I think you need cards like Careful Study and Faithless Looting to really get value out of anything you'd open hand or top deck into. The deck really feels like Tin Fins, except instead of 2 Griselbrand the LED synergy makes you run more for the open hand win off of LED + Burial Rites. Right now I'm only playing 5 creatures, and that's only to get value after a resolved Griselbrand where you can Entomb and Reanimate for something else once you've drawn 7 to 14 cards and even that's only when I can't Storm out for the win.

Edit: I run the full set of Gamble, so that may have something to do with it.

This deck wants Gitaxian Probe so bad, I think it should be the 1st four cards in the deck with the number of other cards re-taken into consideration because of the cantrip effect.

[paradigm72]

Living Wish perhaps? It'll mean you have to dedicate a couple sideboard slots to creatures though.
Also, Time of Need, Buried Alive, Jarad's Orders

Buried Alive is the ticket I think, thanks! The multiple targets made it fall through my Oracle searching. Maybe Time of Need as an alternative to test also.



This deck wants Gitaxian Probe so bad, I think it should be the 1st four cards in the deck with the number of other cards re-taken into consideration because of the cantrip effect.

Definitely agree on Gitaxian Probe being crucial, I'm not sure why it wasn't in the initial builds. It's so important to know whether or not to play around Daze/Pierce since you will often only have one good shot at the combo turn 1 on the draw. Right now I'm running 3 Gitaxian Probe, 3 Cabal Therapy, 3 Unmask for interaction.

[Final Fortune]

Are you guys not finding Unmask way too resource intensive and overly commital?

[TheYoungster]

Are you guys not finding Unmask way too resource intensive and overly commital?

I think unmask is necessary just so you can push through something like turn 1 reanimation through LED without just being cold to a FOW, and if you resolve a jin gitaxias or griselbrand the cost isn't a huge issue and if you drop a turn 1 Sire on the play it probably won't matter.

[paradigm72]

I think unmask is necessary just so you can push through something like turn 1 reanimation through LED without just being cold to a FOW, and if you resolve a jin gitaxias or griselbrand the cost isn't a huge issue and if you drop a turn 1 Sire on the play it probably won't matter.

Yeah, the ability to enable turn 1 or 2 reanimation by taking Force or Pierce is so key that I find the card disadvantage to be worth it. I played two games yesterday where the extra mana wasn't there to Thoughtseize, but Unmask was enough to resolve the combo (still lost one of those games unfortunately). Since so many of the early combos use LED anyway, it's not like you can hold onto redundant extra black cards for value on later turns. I think this needs more testing to say for sure.

Brief tournament report and deck notes from 4-round weekly:
RUG Delver (2-1)
Patiently playing around Daze with Lotus Petal was enough to get there in 3 games. Unmask was fantastic, but Thoughtseize/Therapy would be fine too as we're not pressured to combo on turn 1 in this match. Griselbrand is hard enough for them to deal with just as a 7/7 lifelinker that you are in pretty good shape once you get it, even though I found activating it for 7 cards too risky in this matchup.

Miracles (0-2)
Powerful turn 1 hands got my Iona in play before Counter-Top both games 1 and 2, but it wasn't enough either game. Lost to Jace bounce in game 1 (just fast enough to beat Iona when we're on the draw), and Karakas in game 2. I'm not sure the right mix of Pithing Needle and Abrupt Decay to bring in here - it's tough to take anything out of the combo because it's so important to be as fast as possible. Maybe -3 Therapy +3 Needle? Then if I'm not bringing in Abrupt Decay against Miracles, it might as well be cut for more sideboard space.

Death and Taxes (2-0)
Unmask/Therapy to take relevant interaction, Exhume Iona and the game is mostly over. Not much else to say about it other than it feels unfair. Might be worth going for Sire of Insanity instead if you see Karakas since we have little ability to interact with that. I've considered an Inkwell Leviathan too for any of the Karakas/Swords matchups, just not sure if it's too narrow because it doesn't stop Terminus.

Deathblade (0-2)
Turn 1 Deathrite Shaman is a huge problem for us, to no one's surprise. This (and probably any Deathrite + blue deck) is a matchup where the die roll feels absolutely crucial since it's the difference between one turn and two turns to combo before he's active. In both games, it seems like the only real option is to jam what you have before the opponent untaps with Deathrite, and hope that one Unmask/Therapy is enough to get past the counterspells. I brought in Pithing Needle for game 2 and got one down naming Deathrite, but couldn't combo fast enough to get through multiple counters.

[heathen]

I played this deck in a small local tournament this weekend and ended up doing well, though I think that was mostly due to drawing very hot and not playing against a lot of Force of Wills. Here's the list I played:

3 Badlands
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Gemstone Mine
3 Marsh Flats
3 Polluted Delta
1 Scrubland
1 Swamp

4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal

4 Dark Ritual
3 Duress
4 Entomb
2 Faithless Looting
2 Gamble
4 Thoughtseize
4 Burning Wish
3 Exhume
4 Unburial Rites

1 Sire of Insanity
4 Griselbrand
1 Inkwell Leviathan
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria

Sideboard:
1 Cabal Therapy
3 Pyroblast
1 Reanimate
1 Exhume
1 Revoke Existence
1 Stronghold Gambit
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Vindicate
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Massacre
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Ashen Rider

We played four rounds then cut to top four. I went 3-0 then ID'd the last round so my 2-1 opponent could be guaranteed to make it into top four. When it came time for the top four we just did an equal split.

My actual games were against RUG Delver, Stage Depths, and Jund splashing blue for Shardless Agent. Like I said, I was drawing pretty hot, but the matchups also seemed pretty good. Against Depths I was lucky he didn't draw much that was relevant, but even aside from that his only real disruption is Crop Rotation for Bojuka Bog. Against RUG I felt like I was able to just power past his soft counters, and after board he only really had Surgical Extraction for hate.

I like Inkwell in the main. All of its abilities are relevant in pretty much every non-combo matchup. As much as I like Gamble in a vacuum, I'm leaning more and more towards just replacing it with Faithless Looting. I may try that configuration next time.

[MirrorMask]

Can someone please explain to me stronghold gambit? I really don't get it. All of our creatures are 6 at mana at minimum. The only way to play it successfully is to discard the opponent's creatures first and then cast it. Is it really worth it ?

[jonnnny]

Can someone please explain to me stronghold gambit? I really don't get it. All of our creatures are 6 at mana at minimum. The only way to play it successfully is to discard the opponent's creatures first and then cast it. Is it really worth it ?
I never bring it in except against creatureless combo decks like ANT or high tide and sometimes miracles. It allows us to be a faster show and tell deck. You can also bring it in vs sneak and show or reanimator to put in a sire or griselbrand if you're lucky.

Occasionally you can wish for it if you've seen the opponents hand and know that its safe to gambit.

[TheYoungster]

Can someone please explain to me stronghold gambit? I really don't get it. All of our creatures are 6 at mana at minimum. The only way to play it successfully is to discard the opponent's creatures first and then cast it. Is it really worth it ?

There are a lot of times where it is just a better show and tell. It gets wished for a lot, which is probably its main function, and doesn't get boarded in a lot but it does serve an important purpose.

[heathen]

I'm ditching Pyroblasts from my board in favor of Pithing Needle. I have yet to find the Blasts relevant, because discard and simply overwhelming their number of counters is often enough against blue decks. Deathrite Shaman is a MUCH bigger problem, and Needle is a decent answer to Shaman as well as a number of other cards (Jace, Top, Wasteland, etc).

[guillemnicolau]

I don't play this deck anymore, but I used to play 3-4 Izzet Charm, as it's amazingly useful in this deck, being able of:
- Careful study at instant speed
- Spell Pierce
- Kill Deathrites

[hovercraft]

Could this deck incorporate young pyromancer somehow?

[maharis]

Could this deck incorporate young pyromancer somehow?

Check out the bride of young frankenstein thread weaponx just bumped, it's close.

[Weapon X]

As it should be. I built that based on what I thought burning reanimator was missing. I find burning reanimator powerful, but when it fails do do its plan early I found it lacking.

[hovercraft]

I played this deck at a local legacy tourney last night. It's definitely super fun to play (I had mono black reanimator before that). The list I played was pretty similar to this:
http://www.starcitygames.com/article/28608_Burning-Reanimator-in-Legacy.html

But I cut the 2 jin-gitaxis for main board elesh norn and tidespout tyrant. I also played 1 Anger in place of 1 Gamble and I played 1 reanimate main as well. I also played a Slaughter Games in the wishboard

Went 2-2, losing to 4 colour cascade and RUG delver in 3 games each. I beat miracles and Stasis. I made a ton of play errors using the new deck but it was still very fun and I learned a lot already. The 1x Anger is actually really strong in this deck. I had 1 T1 win where I reanimated a Griselbrand, then stormed out 24 goblins and discarded an Anger with a LED I used. Another game I entombed for Anger with 10 goblins out to speed up my clock. With Entomb + LED+Gamble there a few ways to get Anger in the yard.

A card I am thinking about adding to the wish board is Past In Flames

[heathen]

I'm still playing this deck and I have to say the sideboard Pithing Needles are awesome. They're way more versatile than just shutting down Spellbombs and Deathrites. I'm also happy with my only Gamble in the 75 being in the sideboard as a Wish target. Faithless Looting is much better in the main.

I'm going to try out Empyrial Archangel in the 75 this weekend. There seem to be a bunch of UR Delver decks around, and they can legitimately just go on the burn plan. I'm not sure yet what to cut for it.

One "fun" sequence from last night: on his turn one my opponent played Ancient Tomb into SDT and Pithing Needle naming Griselbrand. I untapped and was able to Exhume Ashen Rider to exile his one land and then on the same turn Exhume again on my Sire of Insanity to make him discard his hand, leaving him with a board of just Pithing Needle and Top. I actually felt kinda' bad about that because he's a nice guy.

[TheYoungster]

On something for UR Delver I have found that Griselbrand is usually just good enough but sometimes they can race it so it might be useful. My current reanimation targets are 1 Elesh Norn, 1 Grave Titan, 1 Iona, 1 Sire and 4 Griselbrand. I wanted the Titan for decks like D&T or other Karakas decks and it also is great against a Liliana. It could be worth while to just cut it for an ashen rider as it can beat an on board Liliana, though still can be dealt with by a later one and sidesteps and deals with karakas and other problem cards like ensnaring bridge or something, though I have been very satisfied with titan. I also added a Revoke existence to the board as a wish target for cards like rest in peace, leyline of the void or humility. I don't think revoke is the best option for that slot but I can't find any other sorcery speed enchantment removal without adding another color. I also think with elves being as prevalent and good as it is main deck elesh non is a must, it just makes the match up so much easier for us and completely shuts off UR delvers offense.

[hovercraft]

On something for UR Delver I have found that Griselbrand is usually just good enough but sometimes they can race it so it might be useful. My current reanimation targets are 1 Elesh Norn, 1 Grave Titan, 1 Iona, 1 Sire and 4 Griselbrand. I wanted the Titan for decks like D&T or other Karakas decks and it also is great against a Liliana. It could be worth while to just cut it for an ashen rider as it can beat an on board Liliana, though still can be dealt with by a later one and sidesteps and deals with karakas and other problem cards like ensnaring bridge or something, though I have been very satisfied with titan. I also added a Revoke existence to the board as a wish target for cards like rest in peace, leyline of the void or humility. I don't think revoke is the best option for that slot but I can't find any other sorcery speed enchantment removal without adding another color. I also think with elves being as prevalent and good as it is main deck elesh non is a must, it just makes the match up so much easier for us and completely shuts off UR delvers offense.

Good idea on the enchantment removal. I never remember to consider white cards for the wish board. I agree that maindeck Elesh is a must, as is Iona for me (multiple burn decks around my meta).

What are your lists looking like? Here's mine right now:


4 Badlands
3 Bloodstained Mire
1 Gemstone Mine
2 Polluted Delta
2 Scrubland
1 Swamp
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal

1 Cabal Therapy
4 Dark Ritual
4 Entomb
2 Gamble
1 Reanimate
4 Thoughtseize
4 Burning Wish
4 Exhume
1 Simian Spirit Guide
1 Anger
2 Unmask
3 Unburial Rites
1 Sire of Insanity
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
4 Griselbrand
1 Inkwell Leviathan
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria


2 Pithing Needle
1 Reanimate
1 Rakdos's Return
1 Stitch Together
3 Empty the Warrens
1 Past in Flames
1 Slaughter Games
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Unmask
1 Unburial Rites
1 Ashen Rider

[TheYoungster]

Good idea on the enchantment removal. I never remember to consider white cards for the wish board. I agree that maindeck Elesh is a must, as is Iona for me (multiple burn decks around my meta).

What are your lists looking like? Here's mine right now:




4 Badlands
2 Scrubland
2 Marsh Flats
4 Polluted Delta
1 Swamp

4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal

1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Grave Titan
4 Griselbrand
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Simian Spirit Guide
1 Sire of Insanity

4 Dark Ritual
4 Entomb

4 Burning Wish
3 Gamble
4 Thoughtseize
4 Unburial Rites
3 Unmask

SB
1 Ashen Rider
1 Cabal Therapy
3 Empty the Warrens
1 Massacre
1 Meltdown
1 Reanimate
1 Revoke Existence
1 Stitch Together
3 Stronghold Gambit
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Unmask


I still really like stronghold gambit as a way of sidestepping graveyard hate and it works really well as the last push once they have countered all your reanimation. All in all the list isn't too different from the original, but I've been pretty satisfied with it so far. Of all the fatties Grave Titan is probably the worst and depending on how much Liliana's are in the meta it could easily be inkwell but so far there are more of the planeswalker than Karakas so I'm sticking with it. I've been considering cutting the spirit guide and adding another land but haven't pulled the trigger yet, I barely actually use it though it is sometimes relevant when I'm trying to storm them out and need the red mana for wish but I've found it to be pretty bad, though it may have a critical enough role to warrant inclusion. It might also be reasonable to cut the gambles for faithless looting but I haven't had a lot of trouble getting things into the yard so I'm not sure about that one yet

[ApolloGod]

I've been using 1x Paraselene in my wishboard. I like the card (looks great in foil!) and it's a strong card to fetch with Burning Wish. Sometimes it's a bit of overkill, so you can also use it's meeker cousin Solemn Offering.

[hovercraft]

You should try an Anger sometime, can lead to some very fun plays. I attacked with a Griselbrand and 26 Goblins on turn 1 in one game. When you are storming out and have an entomb, its a great way to speed up the clock.

I have't really had any success with Stronghold. Never really had any games where I wanted it to come in, but maybe I'll try it again

[heathen]

I played a 30ish person tournament on Saturday and lost my last round win-and-in for top 8. Unfortunately the loss was to my own incredibly stupid mistake. Anyway, here's the list I played:

3 Badlands
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Gemstone Mine
2 Marsh Flats
2 Polluted Delta
1 Scrubland
1 Swamp
2 Verdant Catacombs

4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal

4 Dark Ritual
3 Duress
4 Entomb
4 Faithless Looting
4 Thoughtseize
4 Burning Wish
3 Exhume
4 Unburial Rites

1 Sire of Insanity
4 Griselbrand
1 Inkwell Leviathan
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria

Sideboard:
1 Gamble
3 Pithing Needle
1 Reanimate
1 Exhume
1 Pyroclasm
1 Revoke Existence
1 Stronghold Gambit
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Massacre
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Ashen Rider
1 Empyrial Archangel

I used Stronghold Gambit for the first time ever, reinforcing my opinion that it's best as a one-of Wish target. The "exile" part of Revoke Existence was relevant in one of my matches because I was able to exile my opponent's Cage while he had Academy Ruins in play. (That was the same game where I hard cast Iona, got it countered, then hard cast an Unburial Rites on the Iona.)

Going forward I'm going to swap Pyroclasm for Deluge in the board. Pyro is relevant in the Delver matchup, and an extra mana isn't always available against all those Dazes. I'm also going to try Sphinx of the Steel Wind instead of Archangel. Being able to actually gain life, while keeping it back as a blocker, seems much better than having Archangel just soak up 3 Bolts and then die.

Pithing Needle was pretty good. Surgical Extraction is still a problem, but I'm not sure what to do about that. I also want to make room for another land, because there have been too many times that I've drawn my opening 7 card hand and seen zero lands. I might cut an Unburial Rites for the land. I'm not sure yet.

[TheYoungster]

I used Stronghold Gambit for the first time ever, reinforcing my opinion that it's best as a one-of Wish target. The "exile" part of Revoke Existence was relevant in one of my matches because I was able to exile my opponent's Cage while he had Academy Ruins in play. (That was the same game where I hard cast Iona, got it countered, then hard cast an Unburial Rites on the Iona.)

Going forward I'm going to swap Pyroclasm for Deluge in the board. Pyro is relevant in the Delver matchup, and an extra mana isn't always available against all those Dazes. I'm also going to try Sphinx of the Steel Wind instead of Archangel. Being able to actually gain life, while keeping it back as a blocker, seems much better than having Archangel just soak up 3 Bolts and then die.

Pithing Needle was pretty good. Surgical Extraction is still a problem, but I'm not sure what to do about that. I also want to make room for another land, because there have been too many times that I've drawn my opening 7 card hand and seen zero lands. I might cut an Unburial Rites for the land. I'm not sure yet.

I think having the option for stronghold gambit is pretty strong regardless of if you intend to board it in or not, the fact that wish becomes a threat without the graveyard or storm count is pretty awesome at times. I am not entirely sure how good it is as a plan out of the board and there might just be better options but I'm not sure. I know one of the original lists had sneak attacks in the board but that seems pretty expensive in such a land light deck as this but I think it is worth considering. I am definitely considering going up to 15 lands as I find myself losing a lot of games because I mulligan to 4 or 5 without seeing lands and having otherwise ridiculous hands if a land was there. I like having pithing needle a lot because deathrite is brutal as well as karakas and I have also been considering a green splash for abrupt decay and maybe xantid swarm but I'm not positive about that 1. Decay is always strong in a combo deck like this as breaking up counterbalance or killing a hate bear or chalice of the void is never bad but swarm might be too deep.

[heathen]

I think having the option for stronghold gambit is pretty strong regardless of if you intend to board it in or not, the fact that wish becomes a threat without the graveyard or storm count is pretty awesome at times. I am not entirely sure how good it is as a plan out of the board and there might just be better options but I'm not sure. I know one of the original lists had sneak attacks in the board but that seems pretty expensive in such a land light deck as this but I think it is worth considering. I am definitely considering going up to 15 lands as I find myself losing a lot of games because I mulligan to 4 or 5 without seeing lands and having otherwise ridiculous hands if a land was there. I like having pithing needle a lot because deathrite is brutal as well as karakas and I have also been considering a green splash for abrupt decay and maybe xantid swarm but I'm not positive about that 1. Decay is always strong in a combo deck like this as breaking up counterbalance or killing a hate bear or chalice of the void is never bad but swarm might be too deep.

I don't think going into four colors is really necessary. Swarm seems weak, and countermagic really isn't much of a problem usually. The decks you'd want it against (Miracles, UR Delver) are keeping in their Bolts and other creature removal anyway, making Swarm worse. Also I wouldn't dream of going under 15 lands. I'm at 15 now and sometimes it doesn't feel like enough.

[TheYoungster]

I don't think going into four colors is really necessary. Swarm seems weak, and countermagic really isn't much of a problem usually. The decks you'd want it against (Miracles, UR Delver) are keeping in their Bolts and other creature removal anyway, making Swarm worse. Also I wouldn't dream of going under 15 lands. I'm at 15 now and sometimes it doesn't feel like enough.

Ya swarm doesn't seem good enough but it was mainly for bug delver and miracles, which isn't great. I don't think UR delver is a bad match up by any means though, Huangs list, which most people still seem to be using only has 4 daze and 4 force of will as a means of interaction preboard and we can over power that fairly easily, and a lot of them are skimping on graveyard hate. Swarm definitely doesn't do enough after a small amount of testing and I think the splash is a dead end, no matter how much I want abrupt decay.

I also don't know what else to cut for more lands, right now I cut 1 gamble and a spirit guide for 2 lands to put it up to 15 but I can easily see wanting more. Without the cantrips of decks like storm or Tin Fins it hurts us a lot, I don't know if there is a great solution to it as we need a high threat density with enough protection and enough lands to actually go off.

[hovercraft]

I am planning to play this list tonight at my local legacy night:

I am on 14 lands + 1 Simian Spirit Guide. I will try to write down my matchups as they happen so I can do a decent report

4 Badlands
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Gemstone Mine
2 Polluted Delta
2 Scrubland
1 Swamp
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
1 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Dark Ritual

4 Thoughtseize
1 Cabal Therapy
2 Unmask
4 Burning Wish
2 Gamble
4 Entomb
1 Reanimate
4 Exhume
3 Unburial Rites

1 Anger
1 Sire of Insanity
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
4 Griselbrand
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria



Can't remember the whole SB off hand but here's most of it:
2 Pithing Needle
1 Reanimate
1 Smallpox
1 Gamble
1 Stronghold Gambit
1 Pyroclasm
1 Vindicate
3 Empty the Warrens
1 Past in Flames
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Unmask
1 Unburial Rites
1 Ashen Rider

[jonnnny]

A very very minor suggestion for your list... is to play the full 4 polluted delta just to throw off opponents on T1. A blue source might make opponents scared of force/daze and not try to combo off without protection.

[hovercraft]

A very very minor suggestion for your list... is to play the full 4 polluted delta just to throw off opponents on T1. A blue source might make opponents scared of force/daze and not try to combo off without protection.

Yeah that's true, but this only a small LGS tourny and most of us know each other and what decks are around. If I were playing a big tournament I would likely play 4 Deltas, the other 2 are just in a different deck right now

[hovercraft]

Went 2-2 in the tourny last night.

Round 1:

ANT Storm
0-1. This isn't a good matchup, as ANT is a lot more consistent than us.

G1: I kept a hand with a thoughtseize and a cabal therapy, trying to disrupt him and slow him down, while I waited for my last combo piece. That plan failed, as he still went off on turn 3 or 4.
G2: I sided in 2 Empty. Once again I disrupted him wih a thoughtseize and a unmask, but he sided in tormod's crypt and karakas so I never got anything going. I think vs ANT we need to mulligan for an explosive start rather than trying to disrupt them, as they are pretty resilient to it.

Round 2:

1-1
UW Standstill. Hadn't seen this deck before, but it's a UW control deck with Standstill and Jace and manlands
G1: Got T1 Griselbrand with LED+Unburial Rites(also discarding Anger), then attacked for 7 drew 21 cards and stormed out with Tendrills. Didn't know what I was playing against, so just pushed through without caring about counters.
G2: I sided in 2 empty the warrens. On T1 he lays pithing needle naming Grisel. I thoughtseize his FOW. on T2 he lays Relic of Prog. I disrupt him with another discard spell. I hold onto a few cards before drawing an Empty the warrens and putting out 6 goblins and take him down in 3 turns.

Round 3: 4 colour Cascade

2-1
G1: I TS his FOW and a turn later I reanimate and storm with Grisel.
G2: He lays T1 DRS. I disrupt him a bit while waiting. Eventually I burning wish for a pyroclasm to kill DRS and Shardless agent, but he lays back to back Bloodbraids before I can combo anything.
G3: I reanimate a Grisel on T3, then reanimate Iona and Elesh norn as well, with an anger in the graveyard and attack for lethal(18 flying, when he was at 18)

Round 4: Esper Deathblade

2-2
G1: He lays T1 DRS, I never get anything going and eventually he wins with Batterskull
G2: He lays T2 RiP, once again I never get anything going, I had sided in Empties and hold onto a bunch of mana rocks and dark rits hoping to storm, but I never saw an Empty or Burning wish.


The deck is still very luck dependant, but explosive with the right hands. I found I had poor draws in general and had to mulligan often.

[jonnnny]

Thanks for the report!

I take it that you're liking Anger in the maindeck? I've been toying with Reckless Charge in the wish board (castable with LED-flashback) but anger definitely seems more resource-light.

I see your plan against graveyard hate is Empty the Warrens which seems completely reasonable. I've been siding in 2-3 Stronghold Gambit if I anticipate graveyard hate. It's been a problem clearing the way with thoughtseize/unmask. Empty is weaker against storm hate though, which we're also very likely to see after game 1. What are your thoughts on that?

[hovercraft]

Thanks for the report!

I take it that you're liking Anger in the maindeck? I've been toying with Reckless Charge in the wish board (castable with LED-flashback) but anger definitely seems more resource-light.

I see your plan against graveyard hate is Empty the Warrens which seems completely reasonable. I've been siding in 2-3 Stronghold Gambit if I anticipate graveyard hate. It's been a problem clearing the way with thoughtseize/unmask. Empty is weaker against storm hate though, which we're also very likely to see after game 1. What are your thoughts on that?

Sorry for the slow response!

Yeah I do like the Anger when you have a spare entomb when Emptying or even just to have Grisel with haste so you can draw more cards his first turn. Though I do often side him out when I need pithing needles or whatever to protect.

My meta doesn't have too much storm hate (though I did get Mindbreak trapped by burn once), so I still usually just go for Empty as the backup. though I did go back to 1 stronghold gambit in the wishboard, I just find I never have a good time to cast it. It probably would have helped in the games against deathblade though I find most people , at least at my LGS focus on either gravehate, or pithing needle on grisel to stop storm.


I went 3-0 this week to win the local tourney, but it was a small turnout this week.

Round 1: Elves 2-0

G1: Reanimated Elesh Norn on T2 and he scooped. Though I spent about 5 minutes thinking about whether to go for it or not as he had a tapped DRS and a Quirion Ranger on the board, but I could kind of tell he wasn't really thinking about what I was going to do and didn't see how he could stop it. Luckily he didn't stop it.
1-0
G2: got Elesh out on T3 this time for a scoop again. I had played a pithing needle naming DRS this time.
2-0
Round 2: Shardless Bug 2-0
G1: I keep a T1 hand (IIRC Dark Rit, thoughtseize, Grisel, Grisel, Exhume, land, land), he thoughtseizes an decides to take my TS to take away my GY enabler, but I top-decked another TS and stormed out on T1
1-0
G2: I keep another really good T1 hand , I don't recall this one as well, but he thoughtseized me on T1 again and took a key combo piece, but I got lucky and top decked a replacement on my turn again. I drew a lot of cards on T1 but couldn't storm, but had anger in the graveyard so I got 7 dmg in and discarded Iona, Elesh and some lands at eot. On T2 I reanimated another body and attacked for the win.
2-0
Round 3: Burn 2-1

G1: I put an Iona in my GY early but was very slow getting a reanimation spell, and by the time i Wished for one, I had less than 9 life and couldn't cast reanimate. eventually I got Iona out, but by the I got her out he had resolved a Grim lavamancer which killed me before Iona could kill him.
0-1
G2: I got Iona out by T3 and won
1-1
G3: I got Grisel out T2 and just rode his lifelink to victory
2-1

Small tourny, but it feels nice to win with the deck. The main advice I have based on these games, is that I belive having Elesh Norn and Iona maindeck is required just because they can cripple certain decks so easily

[jonnnny]

Thanks for the write-up and congrats on the 3-0. I agree with Elesh and Iona in the maindeck. What about Sire of Insanity though? I feel like there are other silver bullet animation targets that are just better. Sire is good but I don't know if it's worth a slot over Elesh/Iona/Grisel/Anger. Although it's probably good to have at least 1 non-legendary target for G1.

[hovercraft]

Thanks for the write-up and congrats on the 3-0. I agree with Elesh and Iona in the maindeck. What about Sire of Insanity though? I feel like there are other silver bullet animation targets that are just better. Sire is good but I don't know if it's worth a slot over Elesh/Iona/Grisel/Anger. Although it's probably good to have at least 1 non-legendary target for G1.

If you can get Sire on T1, you will likely win the game. I am still a big fan of him. and yeah like you said non-legendary is nice. so is a castable 6cmc. What other targets have you played with? I have used Inkwell Leviathian, Grave Titan, Jin-Gitaxis, and Ashen Rider. Inkwell is nice vs UW decks with Swords.

[Tee]

Went 5-1 with the following list:

I am on only 11 lands to go all in on turn 1 or 2. Took out burning wishes.

2 Badlands
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 vereran catacombx
1 mashed flats
1 Scrubland
1 Swamp
2 Bayou
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
4 Dark Ritual
4 Faithless looting
4 Thoughtseize
4 Unmask
2 Gamble
4 Entomb
4 Reanimate
3 Exhume
4 Unburial Rites

1 Anger
4 Sire of Insanity
4 Griselbrand

SB:
2 Pithing Needle
3 nature's claim
3 Abrupt decay
2 Pyroclasm
2 Surgical extraction
1 Elesh Nore
1 Iona
1 ashen rider

Match one against astral slide deck:
Opponent had a land screw but i only managed to go off in turn4. Game 2 elesh nore got plowed and i got wasteland locked through recurring eternal witness with astral slide. Game 3 I managed to go off in turn one with griselbrand and iona. My opening hand was Reanimate ,Petal, LED, Grisey,Iona, land and unburial rites.

Match two against painter stone:
Won the die roll and managed to unmask opponent to check clear before ritual entomb and exhume grisey and getting sire in play on the same turn. Game 2 opponent mull to 5 and open with a painter servant but i managed to go off turn one with LED and unburial rites.

Match three against elves.
opponent opened with a deathrite. I managed to get sire turn one and discard his hand. Next turn he top deck a green sun for the insect but he make a mistake by bouncing the deathrite when block my sire as he had to discard at my end step. Did just enough for lethal for the next few turns. Game 2 opponent opened with 2 deathrites and cleared my graveyard before i can do something meaningful. Game 3 i started with a faithless looting, drew a petal and Led and discarded my grisey and iona. Had an unburial rites thus go off with grisey, drew 14 and get iona into play, opponent scoop.

Match 4 against burn.
Very intetesting game one, opponent opened with a goblin guide. I reanimated grisey and pass turn, thinking that i can just race him with grisey. I never expect that he bolted and fireblast the grisey, drew seven and down to one. Lost the game as i only had another reanimate. Game 2 was a fast game as i go off in turn 2 after unmasking his ensnaring bridge and had a hasty grisey due to anger in graveyard. Sided in 3 decays and 3 natures claim in game 3, took out a gravediggers cage and ensnaring bridge before going off.

Match 5 against RUG delver.
Tough matchup but i won the die roll and opened a hand with a land ,3 reanimate, 1 unmask, grisey and lotus petal. The first reanimate met a fow but the second went thru and there is not way RUG can race a grisey. Game 2, he opened a land and pass turn. I opened with a fetch land and was wary of a stifle, thus i decided to cast a LED to test. Opponent in response cast Brainstorm. I crack a land in response but didnt expect a daze on response to my fetch on the LED. He subsequently wasted my badlands. Couldnt do anything for a couple of turns but opponent delver didnt flip for 3 turns. Got a Badlands and had a dark ritual and entomb dazed and pierced. Gamble managed to resolve next to get me a LED and opponent discarded my grisey! Going off with umburial rites but met with a fow. Top decked a reanimator with grisey in play but opponent attacked with a flipped delver and double bolt it! Drew 7 in response and was down to 2 life. Go off next turn with exhuming grisey and unburial rites iona name blue thru dark ritual and LED. Super epic.

Match 6 against jeski delver.
Kept a 4 land hand with a looting, thoughtseize and sire. Thoughtseized and took out fow. Wanted to loot but metup with a top decked spell pierce. Drew mana accelators and unmask for a few turn with no reanimate spells. Faced flipped delver, stoneforge and true name nemsis. Drew a gamble and gotten a exhume with 2 other cards. Opponent got only 33% of discarding the exhume but he was spot on and i lost game 1. Game two opponent opened a crypt but i managed to decay it. We dabbled a bit with counters and discard and i was facing a flipped delver and stoneforge. I managed to go off next turn with griselband and elesh norn. Game 3 opponent opened with a crypt but i had no decays and nature claim. Had to resort to a fizzled reanimate on grisey to take out the crypt. Managed to resolve a exhumed grisey at 9 life facing a flipped delver, true name and stoneforge with a jitte in play. I have to try to draw 7 facing lethal next turn and somehow hope for an anger in graveyard and exhume an elesh nore. Drew 2 dark rituals, 2 thoughtseize, Iona , unmask , a land and a petal...I had to resort to 2 flashback looting but didnt get what i need and extended my hand.

Overall, the deck was a blast to play! Faithless looting was really immense and i dun think i missed burning wish much. Sequencing was very important especially against blue decks. I will only sideboard in a maximum of 8 cards so as not to compromise the explosiveness of this deck. Going forward, i probably take out ashen rider for a empyrical archangel.

[hovercraft]

Went 3-1 for 2nd place yesterday at my LGS. List pretty much the same as last time, if anyone wants to see it ill post it though.


Round 1: Manaless dredge 1-0
G1: I didn't get anything going, if I had known what I was playing against I would have mulled more aggressively. He won on T4 0-1
G2: stormed out a bunch of goblins for a 2 turn clock before he could get going 1-1
G3: got grisel out on T1 and cast Tendrils for 14 and swung with Grisel on T2 for the win 2-1

Round 2: RUG Delver 2-0
G1: I played around his soft permission, but he had a FoW in his hand the whole time and owned me at the end once I went to reanimate. Hooting mandrills beat me down pretty quick after that
G2: Got a Griselbrand out through his permission and drew 7 cards but didnt want to bring my life any lower (turns out he had 2 bolts in hand so if I had gone to 6 life I would have been dead), exhumed an Elesh Norn and used Griselbrand to beat him down and keep my life up. 1-1
G3: He mulled, and I got Grisel out on T1 (no FoW), with Reanimate. I could only draw 7 cards, which took me to 5 life, then I unmasked his bolt from his hand and passed. He pondered looking for burn but didnt find any, I started swinging with Grisel to keep my life up and win the game. 2-1

Round 3: Elves 3-0
G1: Stormed out with Grisel for the win with tendrils on T1. 1-0
G2: Very strange game. took me until T3 to get enough combo pieces (had to BW for exhume). On his T4 he natural orders for Ruric Thar. On my T4 I had to take 12 dmg from Ruric to get Griselbrand out, putting me at 4 life. Luckily Ruric has to attack into Grisel and I killed him and starting gaining life back and flying over the chump blockers. 2-0

Round 4: Imperial Painter 3-1
G1: Took me a couple turns to assemble the combo. I reanimated Grisel through bloodmoon but decided to wait until next turn to draw and try to storm when my basic swamp was untapped again. He had Painter out and drew grindstone and won. I wasnt greedy enough, should have just forced the storm the turn before 0-1
G2: Was greedier this time and kept a 0 land hand (lotus petal, LED, Grisel, exhume, unmask, sire of insanity, and 1 card I forget). By the time I drew a land, he had a RiP out, so I was forced to storm out goblins. Had 14 goblins which attacked and brought him to 1 but he tutored for an ensnaring bridge and used Jaya Ballad to keep his hand empty and deal 3 dmg to me per turn. I should definitely have mulled that hand even though it had most of the combo pieces. 0-2

[perian]

Went 3-1 for 2nd place yesterday at my LGS. List pretty much the same as last time, if anyone wants to see it ill post it though.


Do you still play the past in flames in the SB? Have you ever had a game-winning play with it? I play a very similar list as yours - and I am not sure about the PiF in the sideboard.

[hovercraft]

Do you still play the past in flames in the SB? Have you ever had a game-winning play with it? I play a very similar list as yours - and I am not sure about the PiF in the sideboard.

Yeah I still have 1 in the wishboard but I have never wished for it. Against RUG Delver in G1 it would have been useful after he FoWed me leaving my hand empty, if I had drawn a burning wish, but I probably didnt even have enough mana for it. It might not actually be that useful.

What is your board like right now?

[perian]

What is your board like right now?

I am still testing. Current SB-configuration:

// wish targets

tendrils of agony
empty the warrens
past in flames
unmask
thoughtseize
massacre
stronghold gambit
pyroclasm
ill-gotten gains
meltdown
stitch together
reanimate

firestorm

2x reanimate targets (ioan; elesh norn; grave titan; inkwell levithan etc.)

I am trying to maximize the value of burning wish. revoke existence is also a possible choice.

[hovercraft]

Vindicate is another one I've been using too as a catch all removal

[jonnnny]

I've been experimenting with a few things recently.

1) Transformative sideboard that isn't graveyard reliant and gets around containment priest.
This was an idea from the Tin Fins that sided into Doomsday deck that did fairly well recently. Although we have a lot of the necessary cards to transform into Doomsday (LED, burning wish, dark ritual), without blue it really doesn't work. It also makes the Burning Wishes quite bad since you don't have much room for a wishboard. Instead, we can transform to something that is more akin to TES, which isn't actually that graveyard reliant -- Infernal Tutors and Rite of Flames coming in from the side to speed up a sizeable Empty the Warrens. Entombs aren't completely dead since they can put a Rite of Flame in the graveyard or entomb an Anger for hasty goblin tokens.

2) Gemstone Caverns
Since Joe Lossett and Kent Ketter showed up with Gemstone Caverns in their reanimator deck to "steal the play", I tinkered with running it here. It helps to power out a T0 entomb into T1 exhume plan, but doesn't really help speed up the LED + Unburial rites route. Also the pitch cost combined with the fact that we don't have much card draw/selection kind of hurts too. Caverns and unmask has us essentially playing on virtual mulligans. I'm unsure about this but will continue testing.

[hovercraft]

Transformative sideboard is interesting, but like you said it can be tough to weaken BW.

one interesting decklist I saw recently was this:
http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=8829&d=250348&f=LE

It's a mono-black reanimator list which also runs dark depths/stage/hexmage combo. not the same as burning reanimator, but still a 2 sided combo deck

[Scott]

I've been testing the deck, and I have a question that will expose me as a combo novice. Obviously the deck plays differently than Tin Fins because of the lack of haste, and other reasons. What would be the advice on when to draw a bunch of cards and go for a Tendrils kill in the main phase in which you reanimated Griselbrand, or when to draw at the end of the opponent's turn, or when to just beat down? I've thought of obvious situations like going for the kill when you know they don't have countermagic, or when you need to win that turn or lose, and things like that, but I still feel like there's more to it, and general strategy, that I don't know. I'm using Daniele Terra's list (http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=14191&iddeck=104498).

[» Arcanis «]

The decision to storm out or not is quite simple in most of the cases.

Do you expect your opponent to die from Griselbrand beatdown?
Then just continue you attacks until you're in need to draw some cards. Don't expose yourself to the risk of fizzeling at low life total - especially if your opponent plays blue and was able to draw unknown cards.

Is the only chance your Griselbrand is going to be killed during the combat combat step (using additional spells like Pump-Spells from Infect or Burn)?
The additional 7 cards should be enough to reset the boardstate :)

Maybe I'm more likely to combo out when goldfishing the deck - but against a real opponent and unknown cards in his/her hand my behaviour is quite conservative - Attack for the win! Many decks aren't able to handle the big guy.

[hovercraft]

For me it usually comes down to mana available after reanimating. If you have 0 floating, you have to draw a lot of mana rocks to be able to combo so in that case its usually better to wait until your next turn when you can swing with Griselbrand and likely draw 21 cards with mana open. (and your required storm count will be lower since Gris got in for 7).

But as Arcanis said, it also depends on what you are playing against. Always requires more caution against blue decks, my meta is pretty combo heavy though so my gameplan is usually to rush to combo before my opponent does. Also don't forget that Iona and Elesh Norn can make certain decks scoop.

Won my local tourney going 3-0 yesterday.

My list is:
4 Badlands
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Gemstone Mine
2 Polluted Delta
2 Scrubland
1 Swamp
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
1 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Dark Ritual

4 Thoughtseize
1 Cabal Therapy
2 Unmask
4 Burning Wish
2 Gamble
4 Entomb
1 Reanimate
3 Exhume
4 Unburial Rites

1 Anger
1 Sire of Insanity
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
4 Griselbrand
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria

Sideboard
2 Pithing Needle
1 Reanimate
1 Exhume
1 Stronghold Gambit
1 Pyroclasm
1 Vindicate
3 Empty the Warrens
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Unmask
1 Ashen Rider
1 Inkwell Leviathan
1 Massacre


Report from memory, feel free to ask me if you have any specific questions.

Round 1 vs Imperial Painter 2-1

G1: Reanimated Sire of Insanity on T2, but my opponent eventually got an Ensnaring Bridge out and assembled his combo and beat me. The bridge can really hose this deck, and helped me realize that Vindicate is too costly for my only artifact removal in the wishboard. I am going to switch it to Shattering Spree or Revoke existence.
G2: I reanimated Griselbrand on T1, and stormed out on T2. Quick game.
G3: I kept a weird hand on the draw: Ashen Rider, LED, Simian Spirit guide, unburial rites, thoughtseize, dark ritual, cabal therapy. Mostly because Ashen Rider is my only way to deal with an ensnaring bridge. Sure enough, my opp put out a T1 bridge. On my turn I drew a scrubland, played Dark Rit---> thoughtseize---->LED---> exile guide, crack LED , reanimate Ashen Rider, exile bridge. Rode the Rider to victory before he could combo.

My sideboarding was to bring in 2 Empty the warrens and 1 Ashen Rider for Anger, Elesh Norn and 1 gamble . Was anticipating Rest In Peace.


Round 2: Elves 2-1
G1: Reanimated Elesh Norn on T1 for Opponent scoop
G2: Mulled and didn't have a very fast hand. Opponent did some heavy sideboarding and had Tormod's crypt out on T1, slowing me down. Allowing him to natural order for Craterhoof before I really did anything at all.
G3: I was on the play, and kept a hand of Scrubland, lotus petal, lotus petal, Sire of Insanity, dark ritual, dark ritual, unburial rites. Opponent mulled to 5 looking for graveyard hate. I hardcasted Sire T1 using the land, rituals, and petal(first time hardcasting him I think). Rode the Sire to victory while opponent drew lands off the top of his deck.

In this matchup I think my sideboarding was: 2 Pithing Needles, 2 Empty the warrens in for Anger, gamble, thoughtseize and griselbrand. Needles were mainly for Deathrite Shaman and most other grave hate he might have (Scooze, Crypt, etc).

Round 3: Burn 2-0
G1: Was on the draw, but got T1 Iona for opponent scoop.
G2: Got Elesh norn out on T1 by entombing for an unburial rites with Elesh, LED and lotus petal in my hand. Opponent had kept a creature heavy hand and Elesh Norn was able to race the burn.

I dont think I sideboarded in this match as my Opp didn't either. If I thought he was brining in graveyard hate, I would have brought in 2 Empty the warrens at least.

[» Arcanis «]

[...]
My list is:
4 Badlands
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Gemstone Mine
2 Polluted Delta
2 Scrubland
1 Swamp
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
1 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Dark Ritual

4 Thoughtseize
1 Cabal Therapy
2 Unmask
4 Burning Wish
2 Gamble
4 Entomb
1 Reanimate
3 Exhume
4 Unburial Rites

1 Anger
1 Sire of Insanity
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
4 Griselbrand
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria

Sideboard
2 Pithing Needle
1 Reanimate
1 Exhume
1 Stronghold Gambit
1 Pyroclasm
1 Vindicate
3 Empty the Warrens
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Unmask
1 Ashen Rider
1 Inkwell Leviathan
1 Massacre


Nice list, I play more or less the same



The bridge can really hose this deck, and helped me realize that Vindicate is too costly for my only artifact removal in the wishboard. I am going to switch it to Shattering Spree or Revoke existence.


Good decision. Maybe you can get rid of two copys of Empty the Warrens in the sideboard to keep a single - you've got Burning Wish :)

My list for reference:
I play less fastmana to be able to cast my Unburial Rites later on (with just one piece of fastmana helping). The additional Gemsone Mines allow me to play something like Void Snare. The worst card in maindeck is the Sire of Insanity I think. It should get replaced by Iona...

Lands (15)

4 Badlands
1 Scrubland
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Marsh Flats
2 Gemstone Mine
Creatures (7)
4 Griselbrand
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Sire of Insanity
1 Children of Korlis
Bury (11)
4 Entomb
4 Exhume
3 Unburial Rites
Fastmana (12)
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
4 Dark Ritual
Discard (7)
3 Unmask
4 Thoughtseize
Tutors (8)
3 Gamble
1 Faithless Looting
4 Burning Wish
Speed (1)
1 Anger

Sideboard (15)
1 Reanimate
1 Unmask
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Gamble
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Stronghold Gambit
1 Shattering Spree
1 Revoke Existence
1 Pyroclasm
1 Massacre
1 Ashen Rider
1 Cabal Therapy
1 Duress
1 Void Snare


What card do I wish for most often? Let's make a list: (based on feeling, not on numbers)

Tendrils of Agony
Reanimate
Stronghold Gambit
Gamble
Empty the Warrens
Duress or Cabal Therapy
Unmask (in most cases just Storm +1)
Void Snare
Revoke Existence or Shattering Spree
Massacre or Pyroclasm

[Scott]

Thanks for the answers!

[hovercraft]

I often side in the 2 Empties when I'm expecting gravehate, but maybe I can cut 1 and go to 2. Void Snare is interesting, I might try it out.

I definitely think Iona should be maindeck, but I guess it's meta dependent. I like Sire in too though. Good to have a non legendary for Karakas, and he is the most hard castable. How has Children of Korlis been working?

[» Arcanis «]

As I saw Void Snare in the M15 Spoiler I snap-bought Burning Wish JR expecting an increase on (Storm)Combo-Decks using it as a target. This was by the way the starting point for my interest in this deck ;)

I like it very much because you can get rid of any (nonland) permanent for a single blue mana (Gemstone Mine, Lotus Petal). I just won a game because I could bounce my opponent's sulfuric vortex to make use of the lifelink vs burn. I could finish him after that and I just had one Lotus Petal left (so Revoke Existance couldn't help).

Most of the time I found Sire very annoying. It's just useful if dropped early enough to make your opponent face a walking Wit's End. But then a Griselbrand is just better in most of the cases (unless there's StoP waiting in his hand you can't get rid of).
I saw myself boarding Sire out in most of the cases - staying there just to be the pitch card for unmask isn't enough...

Especially the lack of evasion is just bad later in the game - except for the "Karakas evasion" you mentioned.
I have no out for Karakas except for overloading (multiple reanimations) or by using Storm as a kill. But I have to say that I didn't face a single Karakas the last weeks (lucky me).

Children of Korlis is my 61th card and a they represent my test slot - I haven't got any results to show here. Most of the time they didn't show up or were just spectators in a game I already won.

I see them useful against Burn and other combo decks (Tendrils of Agony). Without a shuffle effect like Emrakul does in TinFins, you can't go infinite - and the second reanimator target could be another fat guy instead of Children. So it stays like it is - they remain as a test slot there but I don't expect them to be the holy grail for this deck.

[hovercraft]

Went 3-1 for 4th place out of 12 this week. Doing a quick report, but feel free to ask for any elaboration. This deck really is a blast to play, so many interesting lines of play.

Round 1:
Burn (0-2)

I mulled pretty aggressively both games trying to get a fast hand, but drew pretty poorly. Didn't reanimate anything in either game

Round 2: Loam-Pox (2-1)
This deck is actually another one of mine that my friend borrowed.

G1: He got chalice on 1 on T1 and a trinisphere on T2. No hope for me to do anything
G2: I played a pithing needle on Verdant Catacombs T1, keeping him off green mana for the game. Got Iona out using Stronghold Gambit, naming black for Liliana and attacked for the win.
G3: He mulled and had a slow hand, I got a Griselbrand out on T2 and stormed for the win

Sideboarding: I brought in my 2 pithing needles(taking out Anger/Gamble) for Liliana/Scooze and switched Elesh Norn to Ashen Rider.


Round 3: BUG Delver
2-0

G1: Had an explosive T1 Grisel hand and stormed out. Used a thoughtseize to get the FoW out of his hand before getting up to shenanigans.
G2: Had another explosive hand, 2 LED, petal, land, ritual, Grisel and Unburial rites. He tried to stop it with Daze but I still had the 2nd LED to pay for the mana, stormed out with Griselbrand

Sideboarding, brought in 2 needles for DRS/Liliana taking out Anger and a Gamble. Swapped Inkwell Leviathan in for 1 of the Griselbrands.

Round 4: High Tide
2-1
The most interesting round of the day.

G1: I kept a slow hand that had a good bit of discard in it. Pulled a few cards out of his hand to slow him down just enough before reanimating Griselbrand for the win.
G2: Long game, I tried early on to reanimate Inkwell Leviathan but he had a surgical extraction to stop me. Game went on a bit longer but before I could build up much he started high tiding and hardcasted Emakrul for the win.
G3: Another long and grindy game. Early on I used some discard on him, and used 2 burning wishes to get Reanimate and Exhume in my hand, preparing to fight through countermagic. I drew a cabal therapy naming Surgical Extraction, which he had but he also had a noxious revival. I used Reanimate on Griselbrand, and he put Grisel on top of my deck in response. I had an LED in play and still had the exhume in my hand so I was able to finally get Gris out and storm for the win (he was down to like 14 at this point from fetching and phyrexian mana)

I think for sideboarding I only brought in Inkwell leviathan for Elesh Norn


Overall was happy with most of my play. Deck can still be very luck dependant but super explosive as well. My discard suite has been 4 Thoughtseize, 2 Unmask and 1 Cabal Therapy, but I had a couple games with good work by the 1 Cabal Therapy, so I think next time I am going to do 2 Thoughtseize, 3 Cabal and 2 Unmask. The lifeloss from TS can sometimes interfere with Griselbranding and makes the Burn matchup a little harder. Have finally added the revoke existance to my Sideboard.

[heathen]

With the banning of Treasure Cruise and the likely upsurge in Deathrites, I'm maindecking one Firestorm. Yes, an active Deathrite can remove a card you discard to Firestorm, but it shouldn't be hard to catch someone activating Deathrite end of turn with Firestorm in response, especially game one.

Also it lets me quote Earth Crisis way more during Legacy matches, which is undoubtedly a good thing.

[hovercraft]

yeah not a bad idea. I have been considering maindecking a pithing needle or 2

[bibi]

hello,

I've been loking this thread for a while, and I played Burning Rea.
This week-end I did 3-1 (top4) whith 12 players.

Here is the list I played :

1 Bayou
1 Scrubland
1 Swamp
2 Verdant Catacombs
4 Badlands
4 Polluted Delta
1 Anger
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Grave Titan
3 Griselbrand
1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
2 Firestorm
4 Dark Ritual
4 Entomb
2 Gamble
4 Unmask
3 Burning Wish
4 Exhume
4 Thoughtseize
4 Unburial Rites

SB: 1 Tendrils of Agony
SB: 1 Revoke Existence
SB: 1 Reanimate
SB: 1 Massacre
SB: 1 Pulverize
SB: 1 Stitch Together
SB: 3 Pyroblast
SB: 1 Empty the Warrens
SB : 1 Bayou
SB : 3 Abrupt Decay
SB : 1 Pyroclasm

I won against Burn (thanks iona), Goblin (thanks Sphinx) , Shardless BUG (thanks grisel, and iona) and lost again Miracle.

Blue deck are a pain, specialy Miracle.

I'll try this side for nex time :

1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Reanimate
1 Stitch Together
1 Massacre
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Bayou
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Pithing Needle
2 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 Inkwell Leviathan
1 Slaughter Games

With Burning Wish, I am always looking for :

1) Tendrils of Agony
2) Stitch Together or Reanimate

Never had the opportunity to choose an other card

Against Miracle, I'll side in :

+1 Bayou
+3 Abrupt Decay
+2 Pithing Needle
+2 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
+1 Inkwell Leviathan


-2 Firestorm
-2 Gamble
-4 Unmask
-1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite

Or maybe

-3 Unmask
-1 Anger
-1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
-2 Firestorm
-2 Gamble

I think we have time against miracle to 'lock' him with needle, kill grave hate with Abrupt Decay and protect Exhume/Unburial Rites/Burning Wish with Boseiju.
Slaughter Games might also help (name force of will or maybe terminus if we have inkweel)

Any feedback from you last play ?
I prefer this version than the traditionnal Blue/black one. There is so much to do :)

++

[Laser Brains]

Hi guys! I've been a long time reader of The Source. I'm fairly active on mtgsalvation, themanadrain and back in the day mtgnews. I've been toying with Burning Reanimator for the last several months and really want to kickstart discussion concerning this deck. I'm in love with it's speed, mechanics, win cons, disruption, Burning Wish toolbox and all of the different variants. I'm having great results with my current build.

Before I get started take a look at my list:

LASER's BURNING REANIMATOR: 60 cards

Beatz: 7
3x Griselbrand
1x Iona, Shield of Emeria
1x Sire Of Insanity
1x Tidespout Tyrant
1x Anger

Reanimators: 14
4x Burning Wish
4x Exhume
4x Unburial Rites
2x Reanimate

Utility / Outlets / Disruption: 14
4x Entomb
4x Faithless Looting
4x Thoughtseize
2x Unmask

Ramp: 14
4x Lion's Eye Diamond
4x Lotus Petal
4x Dark Ritual
2x Simian Spirit Guide

Land: 11
4x Badlands
4x Bloodstained Mire
2x Marsh Flats
1x Scrubland

Sideboard: 15
4x Chancellor of the Annex
1x Buried Alive
1x Blackmail
1x Dreadbore
1x Pyroclasm
1x Shattering Spree
1x Stronghold Gambit
1x Reanimate
1x Stitch Together
1x Rite of Consumption
1x Empty the Warrens
1x Tendrils of Agony


Main Deck:

I've taken some of the advice from players here on The Source. Anger is the shizz! It makes the deck considerably easier to combo out. Drawing into a lone Entomb off of Griselbrand gives him haste netting you an additional 7 life and retroactively 7 cards, plus adds to your storm count. This being said Goryo's Vengence and Shallow Grave matter not. It also makes Reanimate more relevant as you can gain back the life you lost. If you happen to draw into it you can Thoughtseize or Faithless Looting it to the yard. I've tested Children of Korlis and it is nice but from my experience Anger has come in handier in a larger amount of situations. Unlike Anger, Children of Korlis helps very little when reanimating Iona and / or Sire. Also, often after drawing 7 off of Griselbrand you have the option to animate another 1-3 creatures and killing that turn with an Anger in the yard. I strongly recommend this card main deck.



I'm running Tidespout Tyrant main deck but I'm not sure this shouldn't be Ashen Rider for dealing with pesky creatures, enchantments, lands and artifacts. As far as removal creatures go I am not running Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite. He's a terrible finisher and only kills creatures. Burning Reanimator wants to win within the first three turns, ENGC is better suited for traditional Reanimator decks that offer protection and longer games. Plus I run Pyroclasm as a wishable target on the side.



People have debated with me but I certainly prefer Faithless Looting over Gamble. Perhaps I can be convinced otherwise but no one as of yet has offered a valid argument in which to make the switch. The deck needs outlets for your fatties plus FL helps dig for lands and ramp. Gamble does offer as an outlet but you don't get to choose which card goes to the yard. Not only does FL let you choose but you get to put 'two' cards in the yard. Typically Unburial Rites and a fatty.



I run two main deck Simian Spirit Guide. These dudes are insane. I actually cut a main deck land to fit the second one in and haven't regretted it. They are killer for surprising an opponent whom thinks they are safe with a Daze in their hand. But really help getting the combo online turn one and / or while going off with Griselbrand. Plus they are very nice ramp for casting Burning Wish. I tested Chrome Mox and didn't like the card disadvantage, especially with the inclusion of main deck Unmasks.




Sideboard:

I have been testing Chancellor of the Annex and actually was running them main. According to MTG Top 8 the most commonly played deck is control. Practically every deck is running a set of FoW. Chancellor is really nice for pushing through counters for a turn one / two kill. I've had great success in testing with him. Plus he's a decent beater and helps back up Griselbrand should you reanimate him instead of being able to go off.



Unlike other Burning Reanimator sb lists I'm running Buried Alive. It acts like Entomb number 5 with Burning Wish and is easily cast off of LED. Not only does it stack your graveyard with fatties but also Anger.



Blackmail is there not only to serve as a back up source of wishable disruption but is really there to offer an outlet for your fatties in the chance you don't have Faithless Looting or Thoughseize.



Everything else in my list appears to have been discussed in previous posts. I'd love some feedback and more discussion on this archetype in general. It's certainly my most recent pet deck.

[NineHDmg]

Hi laser brains. I'm hyped about this deck. I'm quite happy to discuss some topics based on my experience. I've posted some thoughts over on salvation too.

I want to make the point that gamble is functionally entomb, with some particulars that you can often minimise or nullify. I've been playing four and that let me reduce the number of big dudes. Since i reduced the number of dudes I can't play loot effectively but I don't feel like I'm missing out. I also feel gamble allows me to switch to combo storm more effectively.

I'm not sold on anger since I seem to be able to win most of the time regardless.

This deck is really competitive. I'm sure we can make it tier one.

Sent from my HUAWEI P7-L10 using Tapatalk

[Laser Brains]

Hi NineHDmg, yes I agree that the deck can become tier 1. I'm not certain that some builds aren't already. I'd love to work on this deck with you. Really I'd like to run different builds through the gauntlet for match up analysis and possibly even a primer. The deck is really flexible and there are multiple routes to take while building it. Originally I was leaning towards Anothony Lowry's build (which is not bad at all) but after brewing I'm seeing that there are several different directions you can take.


First I'd like to discuss Gamble. I know there are a lot of Gamble cheerleaders out there and also some on the Faithless Looting bandwagon. In my experience I've had Gamble rape me of my Exhume which is not fun. If you don't mind I'd love a more complete breakdown of how it synergizes in all the different situations. Perhaps I need a better understanding of how to play it. Like I said, I could be convinced of it's awesomeness over Faithless Looting. Maybe I'm missing something. My thread on MTGSalvation discusses this to some extent but I'm still on the fence. That thread can be seen here (http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/legacy-type-1-5/developing-legacy/602945-burning-reanimator).


From my testing Faithless Looting has given me more options. Not simply for drawing more cards while pitching Unburial Rites and fatties to the yard in your opening hand but also after drawing your first 14 off of Griselbrand. Sure the deck wants to storm combo out for the win but equally it wants to drop more than one fatty for the alternative win condition. Drawing into it off of your first 14 allows / helps pitch additional fatness in which to animate all the while digging for more ramp and combo pieces. What separates this deck from Tin Fins is that: A). Your creatures get to stick around giving you the option to smash face. B). All of them offer protection. Iona does this with her ability to shut down entire colors (such as white for STP or black for Smallpox) and Sire of Insanity in that he forces your opponent to discard any creature removal.



Although I'm on the fence with Gamble vs. Faithless Looting I am not on the fence with Anger. Not even slightly. After testing it I have zero shadows of a doubt that it is a must. It is just so damn good. Ever since I began testing it I have never looked back.

It allows the deck to do what Tin Fins does by hasting your dudes except that unlike Tin Fin's you actually get to keep your creatures.


It ties up only one slot in the deck.


After drawing your first 14 off of Griselbrand you will likely and I mean 80% of the time draw into either an Entomb to put Anger in the yard or Anger itself in which you can simply Thoughtsieze or Unmask it to the yard. This alone deserves it's own discussion as it dishes out at LEAST 7 damage plus an additional 7 cards turn one.


That being said, more often than not you have the option to animate more than just Griselbrand for your initial hasted attack. Whether it be Griselbrand + Iona or Griselbrand + Sire of Insanity you result in 13 to 14 damage plus an additional 7 cards. In which case you simply Wish for Rite of Consumption or Last Chance to seal the deal. This seems like a lot of steps but really it isn't and it happens more often than one could think. Going this route not only throws off your opponent whom is expecting Tendrils but it also allows more options. A lot of the time it's simply easier than storming off of Tendrils.



I've also come up with a few newer card/deck ideas that can pull the deck in different directions. Testing will tell whether these are good or bad but they at least deserve to be tested and discussed.

I was giving the deck a few play tests the other day and noticed how easy it was to get threshold for Stitch Together and a thought came to my mind. The deck really wants to be "all in" combo, but what if I ran main deck threats that were not combo to supplement this? And then Tombstalker and Gurmag Angler came to mind. If I can pull out Stitch Together's threshold turn one then Tombstalker and/or Angler also shouldn't be a problem. After a bit of thought I decided Tombstalker was the better option for his evasion. He can keep the pressure on without having to combo out, plus he can be animated and/or he can easily be plopped into play after drawing your initial 14. I've done a tiny bit of testing with him and he is nice but I'm not totally sold yet. I'd love some feedback. The question is, what to cut if we went this route.


Another two cards I've been toying with on the sb are Essence Harvest and Last Chance. I was already running Rite of Consumption but I'm not sure that Essence Harvest isn't a better fit. It's easily cast off of LED and you get to keep your creature. Even more interesting is Last Chance. I'm willing to simply dump Rite of Consumption altogether and put this bad boy in it's place. With the limited testing I've done I'm impressed. It gives not only another land drop, draw step and chance to combo out but also and most importantly offers as a finisher via another attack phase. Thoughts??


Also I'm willing to test any ideas and lists that you confident with. So let me have em. ;)

[jrsthethird]

Picked up Laser's list and played a few matches on Cockatrice. Had a blast and won all but one match. I don't play enough graveyard decks to play around grave hate, so I got caught with my pants down. Very powerful deck though.

[Laser Brains]

Yeah this deck is nuts. I've been finely tuning the list I have above with the following changes -1 Tidespout Tyrant -1 Burning Wish +1 Griselbrand +1 Sire of Insanity. The deck is very all in. High risks, high rewards. So I feel focusing on the game plan at hand game one rather than trying to recover mid game is the best strategy. The deck really wants to win turn one or two. Game two I recommend the following sideboarding: -2 Burning Wish -1 Sire of Insanity -1 Anger +4 Chancellor of the Annex as your opponent will likely side in graveyard hate. Chancellor will hiccup your opponent's turn one Grafdigger's Cage, Tormod's Crypt etc.. Allowing your turn one fatty. That being said Chancellor also almost completely destroys other combo decks once in play. This strategy relies less on comboing out but rather animating dudes that all protect each other and stunting your opponent's counters and grave hate while smashing face.

[nonja]

... Chancellor will hiccup your opponent's turn one Grafdigger's Cage, Tormod's Crypt etc..

Crypt cost 0, so you need two Chancellors
Also, Leyline of the Void kills this deck completely - as I see best tactics is not to run into it.

[Rivfader]

First I'd like to discuss Gamble. I know there are a lot of Gamble cheerleaders out there and also some on the Faithless Looting bandwagon. In my experience I've had Gamble rape me of my Exhume which is not fun. If you don't mind I'd love a more complete breakdown of how it synergizes in all the different situations. Perhaps I need a better understanding of how to play it. Like I said, I could be convinced of it's awesomeness over Faithless Looting. Maybe I'm missing something. My thread on MTGSalvation discusses this to some extent but I'm still on the fence. That thread can be seen here (http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/legacy-type-1-5/developing-legacy/602945-burning-reanimator).


I have been interested in this deck for some time now, but only have experience in playing online as I don't have the LED's. About gamble, I really like the card, but I don't think it's a matter of gamble versus faithless looting. As it's essentially entomb 5, 6, 7 (and 8 through Burning Wish), which both get Griselbrand and Unburial Rites, isn't it rather a matter of gamble versus additional fatties/reanimationspells, and play it along faithless looting?

EDIT: You can gamble for Past in Flames to make the storm-line better, as a reference, what im testing:
4 Badlands
1 Scrubland
4 Polluted Delta
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Griselbrand
4 Unburial Rites
4 Entomb
3 Gamble
4 Burning Wish
3 Faithless Looting
1 Past in Flames
2 Duress
4 Thoughtseize
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
2 Chrome Mox
4 Dark Ritual
4 Cabal Ritual

[jrsthethird]

Also, Leyline of the Void kills this deck completely - as I see best tactics is not to run into it.

Well obv.

The Burning Wish for Stronghold Gambit is a way around it. Other than that we can go wide with ETW. We need a sorcery-speed Chaos Warp effect.

[Blastoderm]

Well obv.

The Burning Wish for Stronghold Gambit is a way around it. Other than that we can go wide with ETW. We need a sorcery-speed Chaos Warp effect.

Light green splash for Reverent Silence?

[square_two]

Well obv.

The Burning Wish for Stronghold Gambit is a way around it. Other than that we can go wide with ETW. We need a sorcery-speed Chaos Warp effect.

Vindicate is sorcery speed, although 1WB is a bit of an annoying cost.

[jrsthethird]

Vindicate is sorcery speed, although 1WB is a bit of an annoying cost.

This is doable with the deck's mana though, unlike splashing for Reverent Silence. Gatherer didn't turn up anything cheaper other than Revoke Existence, which may have merit if you expect a lot of Leylines/RIP.

[Laser Brains]

This is doable with the deck's mana though, unlike splashing for Reverent Silence. Gatherer didn't turn up anything cheaper other than Revoke Existence, which may have merit if you expect a lot of Leylines/RIP.

I really like Revoke Existance here. It's what I run on the side. Vindicate is difficult to cast. Also Leylines are easy to get around with Empty the Warrens, especially if you are running Anger main. Just cast a ton of hasted goblins instead of Tendrils and attack for the kill.

@Rivfader: Yes it is true, it should really come down to running more Gambles vs. more creatures but most people make the comparison between Gamble and Faithless Looting, or usually cut one for the other. In the previous pages of posts there were lots of mentions of this. Also, the boys down at Starcity Games have done the same thing in several articles. Gamble is really good however conditional and doesn't always work the way I want. Sometimes it's amazing and others it either does nothing or bites me hard as in losing my Exhume. You certainly can run both of them in the same list though.

[jrsthethird]

I really like Revoke Existance here. It's what I run on the side. Vindicate is difficult to cast. Also Leylines are easy to get around with Empty the Warrens, especially if you are running Anger main. Just cast a ton of hasted goblins instead of Tendrils and attack for the kill.

Except Anger doesn't work from exile.

[Laser Brains]

I see where the confusion is. You were thinking of Leylline of the Void and I thought I saw somewhere that you were talking about Leyline of Sanctity. Leyline of the Void is a bitch for this deck to deal with. I was however the other day looking through MTG Top 8 and fortunately not seeing too many Leyline of the Voids in sideboards. Revoke Existence is probably our best bet in this case. Show and Tell, Stronghold Gambit and/or just going it Belcher style with the right hand wishing for Empty the Warrens (which doesn't happen often, but it does happen).

[Rivfader]

Gamble is really good however conditional and doesn't always work the way I want. Sometimes it's amazing and others it either does nothing or bites me hard as in losing my Exhume.

Just one more thing about gamble (I know the card pretty well from playing lands). It is conditional in comparison to entomb, but on the other hand you have a good shot at keeping in hand what you need, which entomb cannot. Gamble can get the burning wish for massacre against D&T. Or get you the Lion's eye diamond when holding Griselbrand and Unburial Rites, at a moment where you really need to go off. I also think the card buys you boardspace, as it can be both Griselbrand and Unburial Rites (technically 3 gambles gives you 6 cuttable slots in fatties/reanimationspells).

I play gamble when there is actually no risk at all (like with LED on the table and a Griselbrand in hand), or when the gains outweigh the risks (basically when you're locked or in a loosing position), and hold it back in other situations (until one of the previous two situations comes up).

[Laser Brains]

It's one of those cards I initially tested and then cut. Then I tested it again a month later and then cut it again. I've said this before but I've just either had really bad luck with Gamble, I'm not playing it right or it's just not that good. Perhaps I'll test it again.

I do feel that Chancellor of the Annex deserves some discussion. At the very least on the sideboard. I've had really good luck with him in testing. He doesn't quite seal the deal such as does Griselbrand, Sire and/or Iona when reanimated but he fills two roles which I feel shouldn't be overlooked. Drawing him in your opening can hiccup aggro decks but where he really shines is the control and other combo match ups. Especially game two. He stops a turn one FoW, Grafdiggers Cage, Surgical Extraction, DRS etc.. He's not your first choice to animate as is Griselbrand but once in play he single handedly destroys combo.

I actually took notes from Phillip Erhardt whom took 1st place at a fairly large tournament in Ingolstadt with his Black Red Reanimator list. It's not Burning Reanimator but it is similar and he has appeared on several European threads discussing Chancellor's role in reanimator. With his list he doesn't necessarily need to storm combo out but rather draw 7-14 off of Griselbrand and then reanimate 1-2 Chancellor's to protect each other making it difficult if not impossible for your opponent to cast spells until you get your beatdown. A link to his list here (http://www.mtgdecks.net/decks/view/172556).

[NineHDmg]

I do feel that Chancellor of the Annex deserves some discussion.

Cant say Ive tested it enough. What i can say is after a couple of weeks with gamble, i also start to feel its worse than i thought. I still think 2-3 can be played, but since ive been playing with alternative lists, i cant comment enough.

I think ill start rather testing the lists youve posted as my out of the box ideas so far have not been particularly sucessful. I am still not sure about blue for show and tell or cards like breakthrough though... Ill keep playing around :P

Could you post your current list Laser? Ill get it running on mtgo, try some dailys.

[Laser Brains]

What i can say is after a couple of weeks with gamble, i also start to feel its worse than i thought. I still think 2-3 can be played, but since ive been playing with alternative lists, i cant comment enough.
Concerning Gamble, I'm still singing the same tune after testing them again. Like I said, either I have bad luck or they just are not that good in this deck and honestly the deck operates fine if not better without them. Entomb and Faithless Looting fill these roles fine. The main problems we have with the deck are not getting the combo together but rather pushing the combo through counter magic and graveyard hate.

That being said, I think the second worst card in the deck is Burning Wish. Really I feel running 4 main deck is too much, you only need to draw into 1 to go off. Also, you don't really even need to go off with this deck, you can literally draw 14 cards off of Griselbrand and then drop Iona and/or Sire whom all protect each other. I'm currently running 3 and am happy with that number, I might even drop it down to 2.


I think ill start rather testing the lists youve posted as my out of the box ideas so far have not been particularly sucessful. I am still not sure about blue for show and tell or cards like breakthrough though... Ill keep playing around :P
I also have not tested Blue main deck but a wishable Show and Tell on the sideboard does not suck at all. Probably better than Stronghold Gambit and you don't need to add any blue mana sources as Lotus Petal and LED fill this role fine.


Could you post your current list Laser? Ill get it running on mtgo, try some dailys.
Right now I am running two lists, and I back them both. This first list is built around speed, it's very all in but it primarily focuses on turn one turn two kills. The two main deck Sires are to increase these chances. A lot of builds run Elesh Norn etc.. as cards like this can just shut down certain decks. I do not, Griselbrand and Sire are better as they just win the game as soon as they hit the table.

I've heard a few people say that they think Anger is a win more option but I think after testing you will agree that he is not.

He of course speeds the clock if you choose to go the "creature beat down route" but also if you choose the "combo out route" his haste ability not only nets you an additional 7 cards with Griselbrand but also drops your opponent's life total to reasonably attainable Tendrils range.


Anger picks up the slack from Reanimate's drawback. Reanimate is mostly there for getting your turn one Sire however it does not suck so bad with Griselbrand knowing that you have Anger in the deck to gain back the life you lost. Without Anger in the deck you only get to draw 7 from a Reanimated Griselbrand, with Anger you get to draw 14.


Anger also offers another win con and gets around Leyline of Sanctity in that with Anger you can always wish for Empty the Warrens rather than Tendrils and attack with 20+ hasted goblins.

Getting him into the yard after drawing 14 should always be your first goal. After a test run or two I think you will really like this list. It is just stupid good.

SPEED LIST:
Beatz:
4x Griselbrand
1x Iona, Shield of Emeria
2x Sire Of Insanity
1x Anger

Main deck reanimators:
3x Burning Wish
4x Exhume
4x Unburial Rites
2x Reanimate

Utility / Outlets / Disruption:
4x Entomb
4x Faithless Looting
4x Thoughtseize
2x Unmask

Ramp:
4x Lion's Eye Diamond
4x Lotus Petal
4x Dark Ritual
2x Simian Spirit Guide

Land:
4x Badlands
4x Polluted Delta
2x Verdant Catacombs
1x Scrubland

Sideboard:
4x Chancellor of the Annex
1x Buried Alive
1x Last Chance
1x Empty the Warrens
1x Stitch Together
1x Pyroclasm
1x Cabal Therapy
1x Reanimate
1x Dreadbore / Chainer's Edict
1x Revoke Existence
1x Stronghold Gambit
1x Tendrils of Agony


My second list is built around resilience. It's not as fast but will have a better chance against control match ups and grave hate. Note, this list does not run Anger, Burning Wish has been cut down to 2 and the sideboard is more flexible. One addition to the sb is Raze to assist in mana screwing your opponent once Chancellor is online.

RESILIENCE LIST:
Beatz:
4x Griselbrand
4x Chancellor of the Annex
1x Sire Of Insanity
1x Iona, Shield of Emeria

Main deck reanimators:
2x Burning Wish
4x Exhume
4x Unburial Rites
2x Reanimate

Utility / Outlets / Disruption:
4x Entomb
4x Faithless Looting
4x Thoughtseize
1x Unmask

Ramp:
4x Lion's Eye Diamond
4x Lotus Petal
4x Dark Ritual
2x Simian Spirit Guide

Land:
4x Badlands
4x Polluted Delta
2x Verdant Catacombs
1x Scrubland

Sideboard:
2x Pithing Needle
1x Essence Harvest
1x Dreadbore / Chainer's Edict
1x Buried Alive
1x Last Chance
1x Empty the Warrens
1x Stitch Together
1x Pyroclasm
1x Cabal Therapy
1x Reanimate
1x Raze
1x Revoke Existence
1x Stronghold Gambit
1x Tendrils of Agony

[potatodavid]

I am probably going to give Laser Brain's speed list a try on my local Thursday Legacy.

See if I can catch a few people off guard.

[pettdan]

I did last week actually, the fast list. I wrote a little report but the computer crashed before I posted. I had 3 Chancellors in the board and in place of the fourth one a copy of Elesh Norn.

Anyway I got a bye and played 2-1 in the other games.

Round 1 I opened with ten goblins on t1 against an unknown opponent, didn't want to mull that kind of hand, didn't have combo pieces or lands for leaning back and drawing cards for a few turns so I just went for it. He was on elves and glimpsed for enough blockers on his turn two to survive. Surgical g2 bought him enough time to win that one as well, I think I failed to draw a creature after that.

Next round against infect was won conveniently 2-0. The second game I opened with Chancellor, land, petal, ritual, entomb, reanimate and exhume. Since he started he could play a land and keep mana open to FoW my entomb. I was able to win a few turns later. Anyway I think this example shows the disadvantage of Chancellor when on the draw. If expecting Surgical/FoW it may be better to keep discard in. What other cards would you board out for Chancellors, Laser Brains or others? Playing against for example Infect?

Third game was against enchantress, 2-1. Elephant grass gave him one win. He also top decked land + Oblivion Ring after my turn 1(?) Sire of Insanity.

I'm tempted to put a Bayou in the sideboard to be able to wish for a Reverent Silence.

[Laser Brains]

What other cards would you board out for Chancellors, Laser Brains or others? Playing against for example Infect?
I would recommend cutting the following: -1 Unmask -1 Burning Wish -1 Sire of Insanity -1 Anger +4 Chancellor of the Annex
Chancellor isn't perfect, especially if you are on the draw but really he is your best option so far as we know.

Stoked to see your tourney report. I'm collecting data for match up analysis so this will be useful for my mini primer. Let me know of any other useful match up data and I will add this to deck stats.

[Laser Brains]

Also, I would appreciate any other match up data from any one else whom has recently played the deck. In particular, anyone placing Top 8 with a link to the deck list and tournament, plus name and date and I will add it to the unfinished mini primer which I will be submitting here on mtgthesource over the next few months or once I feel I get enough data. Thanks in advance.

[pettdan]

Some more info for you Laser Brains. And thanks fot your posts btw!

I didn't take notes on boarding but in most games I brought out Anger, a Wish and a Looting for three Chancellors. Occasionally a Tidespout/Sire/Iona for Elesh Norn.

R1: infect, 2-0
Winning both games. Second game he goes first and has a turn two win with daze backup and flusterstorm too. Chancellor stops him, I can unmask his flusterstorm, then faithless looting to put chancellor in the bin. Next turn I think I ritualed for thoughtseize + reanimate. Due to chancellor he couldn't play the pump spells quick enough.

R2: leyline helm combo 0-2
Not much to say, in addition I mulligan to 4 game two.

R3: Sneak and Show, 2-0
I'm / we're faster. Tendrils for 20 on t2/t1.

R4: RUG Delver, 2-0
Soft counters and no way to deal with Griselbrand makes this matchup good. A bit troublesome with wastes and stifles though.

[NineHDmg]

Ive been queuing on MTGO with a stock list similar to Lasers.

Quite happy with game 1s.
Unhappy with game 2 and 3s. Unhappy with delver matchups, but i blame this on poor decisions on my part.

The reason for the post, however, is that im mulliganing way too much. I tend to mulligan aggressive, particularly down to 6 because the deck profits from the scry if the 7 cant combo. But im losing too many games to going down to 4 cards (and i do this because the deck can win out of 4 cards).

For this reason, im upping land count to 14 and trying to find a better balance between the number of fatties and disruption.

Im still not sold on faithless looting. Im running 3 loot and 3 Bwish.
I have an alternative version with infernal tutor (until now not particularly amazing).
Im also considering testing Goblin Lore (1R draw 4, discard 3 randoms). Still havent had the time to test blue properly for breakthrough type cards.

I have also added 4 black leylines to the sideboard. Chancellor of the annex is doing less for me than i expected, so ive moved those to the board.

All in all, im still not happy with any 75, but i really like the deck.
Ill keep posting thoughts until i hit a version i really like (a winning one).

[Hasran Ogress]

Nice guy, who helped brewing our list did pilot this led-less list ( http://deck.tk/9ufy0CpK ) to the 4th place @ Eternal Clash Flensburg (54 players).

[jrsthethird]

Nice guy, who helped brewing our list did pilot this led-less list ( http://deck.tk/9ufy0CpK ) to the 4th place @ Eternal Clash Flensburg (54 players).

Also, Wish-less.

[Laser Brains]

Also LEDless. I will add this to the primer match ups. Thanks guys.

[NineHDmg]

I feel a list without Wish / LED / Unburial rites .... should go in a normal reanimator thread? We are on to something different.. sure we can T1 Dark ritual, entomb, exhume.. but we can also Land / LED / Unburial rites. Or Land / Petal / LED / Wish / Empty warrens.

I think that list doesn't fit this thread. Thanks for the info though, always nice to see real life results with relevance to the discussion.

What does this list mean to us? I still don't agree that Chancellor is a must.. Faithless looting doesn't excite me that much either but i agree its a solid addition to the deck.
Im happy he played 14 lands, because I've gone in that direction too. Im on 3 unmask and i really like it but im not sure if i really want to go up to 4.
Im considering testing 3 show and tell to the main deck (1 sb as wish target). This is mainly due to Deathrites everywhere being a real annoyance. Realistically, even if the opponent has a big badass dude, the if i have griselbrand i don't expect them to untap anyway. its a solid turn 2 play with discard backup.

additional notes:
Ive added a swamp and a mountain to my list too, since the deck doesn't suffer too much from going for 1 or 2 basics and this means we are wasteland proof.
Ive upped sire of insanity to 3 and cut Iona to the board. In most match ups i won't entomb for her anyhow.
Considering leaving only 1 unburied rites in the deck as an entomb target opening more slots for other stuff, but im not sure what.

[NineHDmg]

This is my current build.

http://imgur.com/lXW4VtT

Lots of fine tuning and ideas still in progress.

I 3-1`d a Daily on MTGO today and believe that i lost the last round (v Miracles) due to poor decisions (game 1 thoughtseized the wrong player; game 2 shouldve mulliganed).

The deck is shaping up very well :)

Please comment.

[potatodavid]

I am rarely pulling off tendrils for victory with this deck. Anyone else having a similar issue?

[NineHDmg]

i do it all the time..

[potatodavid]

i do it all the time..

I could be just very bad at it.

[Laser Brains]

I go off with Tendrils all the time too. Like about 65% of the time.


I feel a list without Wish / LED / Unburial rites .... should go in a normal reanimator thread? We are on to something different.. sure we can T1 Dark ritual, entomb, exhume.. but we can also Land / LED / Unburial rites. Or Land / Petal / LED / Wish / Empty warrens.

I think that list doesn't fit this thread. Thanks for the info though, always nice to see real life results with relevance to the discussion.
I agree, those lists I believe are called Faithless Reanimator. A great rogue archetype but probably deserves it's own thread/primer.


What does this list mean to us? I still don't agree that Chancellor is a must.. Faithless looting doesn't excite me that much either but i agree its a solid addition to the deck.
I feel Chancellor is the best option for battling other combo and control. It also stops turn one Grafdiggers etc.. However, I also feel this is a preference. I do like Faithless Looting. Mostly because there really isn't anything else.


Im happy he played 14 lands, because I've gone in that direction too.
My take on this is to run the same amount of mana sources. Not necessarily in the form of land drops but rather ramp. I really never want to see three land as I generally want to have won before I reach my third turn. This is why I run an additional Simian Spirit Guide compared to other builds.




Im on 3 unmask and i really like it but im not sure if i really want to go up to 4.
2-3 Unmask sounds about right. 4 I feel is a bit too much.


Im considering testing 3 show and tell to the main deck (1 sb as wish target). This is mainly due to Deathrites everywhere being a real annoyance. Realistically, even if the opponent has a big badass dude, the if i have griselbrand i don't expect them to untap anyway. its a solid turn 2 play with discard backup.
As much as I've resisted trying to include a fourth color to the deck you just might be right. Sadly, this makes me want to rebuild the deck with a set of Brainstorm etc... That being said Sneak Attack seem not too shitty but I haven't tested it at all.


Ive upped sire of insanity to 3 and cut Iona to the board. In most match ups i won't entomb for her anyhow.
I am at this point as well. Especially in speed lists. I think she needs the axe to the board. I'm really wanting to go with 3 main deck Sire's as well.


Considering leaving only 1 unburied rites in the deck as an entomb target opening more slots for other stuff, but im not sure what.
I'm not sure that is a good route. Drawing LED with a fatty and Unburial Rites is an insanely explosive turn one play. I do like running 3 main Wish rather than 4 which does open an extra slot. Perhaps 3 Unburial Rites rather than 4 to open an additional slot??

Also, I have toyed with a few other ideas myself. One is running 2 or so main deck Tombstalker as a back up plan and/or to simply add pressure. This sounds weird I know but after playing Stitch Together from the sideboard I've noticed how easy it is to get threshold. That being said, a thought came to my mind. If it is that easy to get threshold with this deck then it must also be equally easy to meet the Delve requirement of Tombstalker. This is obviously super easy to do after you've drawn your first 7-14 but also super easy to do before hand as well. Plus, he can also be easily reanimated from the yard as well. I've lightly tested this and it is not bad at all. I really haven't had a problem getting the delve requirement turn 1-2. Whether it is good enough to warrant it's inclusion I do not know.

Another idea I've toyed with is Twisted Abomination and/or Scion of Darkness. This isn't groundbreaking at all but these dudes put themselves into the graveyard while digging through your deck. It's not totally amazing and I don't think this will make the cut but it was a thought that crossed my mind.

So far Tombstalker seems not shitty but not ground breaking. He's a good back up plan as often he hits the table if your combo fails / gets countered etc.. Plus he just adds pressure pre-combo or when you just draw a shitty hand, plus he's a decent reanimation target as well. Something to think about and test.

[NineHDmg]

Hey Laser,

Have a look at the screenshot I left from my current MTGO version. (top of the page: http://imgur.com/lXW4VtT)

I dont have Show and Tell online (yet). I agree the temptation to play brainstorm is huge. However, brainstorm doesnt enable the grave. Personally i view this deck as a turn 1 deck in the sense that i want to win with my opening 7. I am losing a lot of games where i think i just need to draw "this" or whatever. I dont think the deck can afford cards like brainstorm because they will enable us to keep hands that are less explosive and each turn we wait makes the deck worse (a deathrite gets active, another counter is up, etc etc). Right now im considering just adding blue for show and tell and thats it.

I have few slots in the main which im doubtful about. Im very unsure about my sideboard, but i can say that having wish #4 and 2-3 copies of empty the warrens seems totally worth it until now.

A quick aside.. i really hate it that we have to reveal our hand when we unmask or thoughtseize ourselves... this is pretty bad versus blue mages :(

Regarding the lands, you will rarely draw into 3 lands in the opener. If you do, its a mulligan (most of the time).
However, just quick maths off the top of my head, with 14 lands you will average 1.6 lands in your first 7, which is in my opinion a good value. Please contradict me if you disagree. Regarding other slots, I build the deck around the premise that i want about 9 dudes, 9 reanimate spells on average to have one on the initial 7. Im mulliganing less than what i did with your version. And i still feel Anger is a "win-more" card.. if i reanimate, i have to win the game, otherwise the deck is useless.

I got a few compliments on the deck during the MTGO daily i played yesterday. Rounds last 5 minutes and the deck is a blast to play. People reacted really positively (i suppose none of them heard of the deck before).

Regarding delve dudes, do you mean that as a sideboard plan? It could work. I have other ideas i`d like to experiment before i test that out. Let me know how it goes in your testing.

[alaska]

This is my current build.

http://imgur.com/lXW4VtT

Lots of fine tuning and ideas still in progress.

I 3-1`d a Daily on MTGO today and believe that i lost the last round (v Miracles) due to poor decisions (game 1 thoughtseized the wrong player; game 2 shouldve mulliganed).

The deck is shaping up very well :)

Please comment.

What are the volc and the underground sea for? Hardcasting Jin? Just run 3-4 Badlands, a Scrubland, a Swamp and a Mountain.

[NineHDmg]

What are the volc and the underground sea for? Hardcasting Jin? Just run 3-4 Badlands, a Scrubland, a Swamp and a Mountain.
The underground sea and volcanic are because I was playing around with show and tell and forgot them in. However, when I don't have turn one combo and want to eot entomb, I always fetch the sea or island since the opponent will assume I'm on a delver variant and not on combo.

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[potatodavid]

Speed list came up milhouse for me last night. It honestly felt like I was completely behind if I didn't have a turn 1 play. I will be tweaking it and going forward, probably to the resilience list. I did make one minor tweak which was hilariously useful last night if a few matchups. Ruric thar is pretty awesome against a lot of decks.

[NineHDmg]

In my experience you either want sire of insanity or griselbrand. Iona is situational and therefore in my sideboard. Gin is sire number five for me. Anything else I would expect either not to die to swords or win the game immediately

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[NineHDmg]

Our deck was just given some spotlight over on SCG, by Anthony Lowry.

http://www.starcitygames.com/article/31953_Choose-My-SCGNJ-Deck.html


He provides two versions of the deck and makes a couple of "new" suggestions.

v1.0 This is the version he had already shown in 2014.

Burning Reanimator
A Legacy Magic deck, by Anthony Lowry
142nd place at a tournament in Providence, Rhode Island on 2014-06-08

Maindeck:

Artifacts
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal

Creatures
1 Simian Spirit Guide
1 Sire of Insanity

Instants
4 Dark Ritual
4 Entomb

Legendary Creatures
4 Griselbrand
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
2 Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur

Sorceries
4 Burning Wish
4 Exhume
3 Gamble
4 Thoughtseize
4 Unburial Rites
3 Unmask

Basic Lands
1 Swamp

Lands
4 Badlands
2 Marsh Flats
2 Scrubland
4 Verdant Catacombs

Sideboard:
1 Ashen Rider
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Cabal Therapy
1 Drown in Sorrow
2 Empty the Warrens
1 Massacre
1 Meltdown
1 Reanimate
1 Stitch Together
3 Stronghold Gambit
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Unmask


v2.0

He suggests Dark Petition and Death Wish should have a spot in the deck. Dark Petition as a sideboard wish target and then Death wish as a maindeck inclusion to tutor with the dark petition.

Maindeck:

Artifacts
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal

Creatures
1 Simian Spirit Guide
1 Sire of Insanity

Instants
4 Dark Ritual
4 Entomb

Legendary Creatures
4 Griselbrand
2 Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur
1 Ruric Thar, the Unbowed

Sorceries
4 Burning Wish
1 Death Wish
4 Exhume
2 Gamble
4 Thoughtseize
4 Unburial Rites
3 Unmask

Basic Lands
1 Swamp

Lands
4 Badlands
2 Marsh Flats
2 Scrubland
4 Verdant Catacombs

Sideboard:
1 Ashen Rider
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Dark Petition
2 Empty the Warrens
1 Massacre
1 Meltdown
1 Pyroclasm
1 Reanimate
1 Stitch Together
3 Stronghold Gambit
1 Tendrils of Agony

Im not completely sold on either his list or the arguments he provides for it.
But it adds to the exposure of the deck and the discussion around it.

[NineHDmg]

Is all interest in this deck dead?

I feel it has a place in the meta...

[potatodavid]

Depends on what your meta is. I've been running big red in mine for the past couple months with better results than ever running this. This deck is fun as hell but I don't think it can compete week after week. Once people see the joke, it's done. Everyone knows to bring chalice.deck/FOW to the party. It's up there with decks like Belcher. It's super fun for a small group once in a while but as a whole the deck is pretty bad. You're not going to win a GP with it. Blue reanimator has the ability to play the long game. This thing is trying to falcon punch its way into the game and if you miss, you're just fucked.

[pettdan]

I'm still interested, FWIW.

And I don't agree with David, although you're not totally wrong I think it is an exaggeration. I regularly draw into the "combo" after a while, when not managing to go off at once. You only need two cards to start comboing off, and you have multiple copies and many ways to find both, some of them with flashback giving some extra resilience. Being mostly graveyard based is a major disadvantage but that is true for other popular combo decks too. Problems arise whem you need to deal with permanent based obstacles, similar to the case for other combo decks.
You have alternate routes to victory, allowing you to manoeuvre around whatever hate is presented/expected. FoW is not a great problem in my experience. Depending of course on your build you can: reanimate a bunch of guys ftw, combo off tinfins style, use show and tell/stronghold gambit to put anything into play, combo off with natural storm. Tombstalker/angler have been mentioned as well.
I'm trying to stay with the deck for a little while to see if I can make improvements. Burning wish makes the deck rather flexible. Most of my changes have been to the sideboard.

Edit: on the other hand I guess I should try the red deck for comparison; I tend to become attached to underdogs.

[potatodavid]

The deck is a glass cannon with disruption. It's a fun deck don't get me wrong but it has some serious issues.

[Rivfader]

The deck is a glass cannon with disruption. It's a fun deck don't get me wrong but it has some serious issues.

Kinda depends on what your definition of a glass canondeck is. TES runs LED and 7 discard as well, I wouldn't put that on the level of Belcher or all Spells. This deck lacks cantrips but has Gamble / Burning Wish to compensate to a certain degree (like a wishboard to deal with DRS) in comparison with UB Reanimator.

I think the reason why this deck isn't played more, is because players who own LED's will probably play Storm instead (as it's not vulnerable to creatureremoval or gravehate).

[THElogic]

I run a list without Lion's Eye Diamond mainly for budget reasons but I just added 2 Avatar of Discord and it seems like a perfect fit. Getting a 5/3 on turn 1 off of a Dark Ritual and dumping 2 fatties into the yard seems like a cool play. What do you guys think?

I also think a back up plan with Stronghold Gambit really helps the deck out. Even if it is just post board.

[hellhound]

Hi guys! Last weekend i've played a 40 people tournament with burning reanimator and went 3-3. All the lost felt like a lack of constancy. Most of the times fizzled after draw7 due to lack of 0cc mana. Also postboard miracles felt pretty hard, preside it's like 70-30 for us, but postboard it changes drammatically. Not sold on sire too (still think he' s really cool) but why use it when i can just grisel and combo out?
Since i'm a fan of tin fins, i've started testing a different build:
Took out LEDs, wishes, exhumes, Urites, gambles and throw in White chancellors, animate dead, more reanimates, shallow the graves, lootings, 1 tendrils 1children of korlis 1 skirge familiar.
So current list is:
4 grissy
4 chancellor W
1 children
1 skirge
1 tendrils
4 seize
3 unmask
4 looting
4 entomb
3 animateD
4 renimate
4 shallow
4 petals
4 Dritual
3 SSG
4 badlands
1 swamp
1 scrubland
6 Bx fetch

SB:
3 reb
3 gambit
3 massacre
3 wear/tear
1 tidespout t.
1 elesh norn
1 iona

So guys, chat do u think?

[Laser Brains]

Somebody just took first place at a tournament with Burning Reanimator running Gamble and Children of Korlis. Not sure how big the tournament was but here is the link at MTG Top 8.
http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=11481&d=265223&f=LE

[Islandswamp]

I've been thinking about this deck recently. I'm going to be making a Legacy deck again soon online and this seemed legit. I have most of the cards for UB Reanimator though, so I'd have to do a bunch of trading to get this list.

I've been playing Vintage and out of the loop for what's good in Legacy these days, so I'm trying to read up and get a feel for what I should try to build and play.

[tarmogoat]

Would you say that this list is outright bad?

Ramp:
4x Lotus Petal
4x Dark Ritual
4x Deathrite Shaman

Discard:
3x Thoughtseize
3x Duress
2x Unmask

Tutor/Enabler:
4x Faithless Looting
4x Entomb
4x Burning Wish

Reanimation:
3x Reanimate
3x Exhume
2x Animate Dead

Targets:
3x Griselbrand
1x Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1x Sire of Insanity
1x Grave Titan

Lands:
3x Badlands
2x Bayou
1x Swamp
4x Bloodstained Mire
4x Polluted Delta

Sideboard:
1x Stitch Together
1x Exhume
1x Reanimate
1x Unmask
2x Massacre
1x Reverent Silence
1x Cave-In
3x Stronghold Gambit
2x Pithing Needle
2x Tormod's Crypt

Trading Chancellors for Shamans to ramp, disable opposing GY shenanigans, chump 1/Xs, counter surgicals, slowly drain over time while threatening to 'go off' and occasionally gaining life. Is it worth the slots?

[aiescream]

Hi there,
I piloted this deck during the brisbane legacy championship and managed a top8 (63 players), it was unexpected since i didn’t updated my list since 2017, I kind of played this deck as a joke but it prouved to be quite a solid deck so I would definitely try it again with some change in the 75 for my next event.

https://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=23954&d=366929&f=LE

Cheers

[Laser Brains]

Nice work Aiescream! This has been my pet deck for some time now. I piloted it to a first place finish in 2017 but haven't been actively playing tournaments (very often) since then. Your list looks a lot like mine. I see you run Children of Korlis and Anger. I just run Anger, also I run a full set of Unburial Rites to help maximize my chances of going off. I love how the deck has multiple game plans such as just storm comboing out a bunch of Goblins rather than trying to go the reanimate route. Especially game two when your opponent sides in all their grave hate. I absolutely love this deck!