What is the Best T1 Card in Legacy?

[jrw1985]

What is the card you always want to see in your opening hand? Let's assume you are on the play.

I ask this question because, as a Goblins player, I always want to see a Vial or Lackey in my starting 7. Now those cards are great T1 plays if you're playing Goblins, but they'd be pretty worthless in a lot of other decks (obviously). Thinking about this made me wonder what the best starting play across the format is. Which card(s) are the best at opening the game in the Legacy format?

My initial thoughts:

1. Delver of Secrets - You open the game with a clock and potential Daze backup.
2. Deathrite Shaman - You get a mana elf with a big ass that you can play off of Underground Sea
3. Thoughtseize - You get to see your opponent's game plan, then fuck with it.
4. Gitaxian Probe - You get to see your opponent's game, then either combo off on them or blast them with Cabal Therapy.

What else should be on that list, and why?

[(nameless one)]

Chalice of the Void - shuts down a lot of strategies.

[Lemnear]

T1 Probe just to see your opponents hand is a noob move, just saying.

The best 5 (unranked) cards in your starting grip to work yourself into the match:

- SDT
- Delver of Secrets
- Ponder
- Aether Vial
- DRS

[Dragonslayer_90]

Are we just talking about cards that can be on Turn One by themselves or is it okay if we include stuff that's really powerful when accelerated out? If that's okay I pick Chalice of the Void on one and Blood Moon as particularly powerful plays when played on Turn One. Either one can really screw up your opponent's plans for they don't have Force of Will or some way to deal with them.

[Lemnear]

Are we just talking about cards that can be on Turn One by themselves or is it okay if we include stuff that's really powerful when accelerated out? If that's okay I pick Chalice of the Void on one and Blood Moon as particularly powerful plays when played on Turn One. Either one can really screw up your opponent's plans for they don't have Force of Will or some way to deal with them.

I guess he asks for single cards and not "this card is good if I have xyz too"

[jrw1985]

T1 Probe just to see your opponents hand is a noob move, just saying.

The best 5 (unranked) cards in your starting grip to work yourself into the match:

- SDT
- Delver of Secrets
- Ponder
- Aether Vial
- DRS

I agree with Aether Vial and SDT. Both add a ton of utility as the game progresses.

Ponder seems like a fine T1 play for a control deck, but you could argue that it would just be better to have the card Ponder cantrips into. You would rather cast Nimble Mongoose with Daze in hand than cast Ponder into Daze. Or if you're a combo deck you'd rather just go off instead of stacking your deck to go off next turn.

I thought of a new one that's super lame but legit: Lotus Petal. It's the basis of every Storm deck and has also found a home in Show and Tell and Reanimator and janky combo the world over.

[menace13]

Delver
Top
DRS
Duress- pretty high chance of rain
SnT

[Megadeus]

Mox Diamond. So I can get that turn 1 loam going

[jrw1985]

Are we just talking about cards that can be on Turn One by themselves or is it okay if we include stuff that's really powerful when accelerated out? If that's okay I pick Chalice of the Void on one and Blood Moon as particularly powerful plays when played on Turn One. Either one can really screw up your opponent's plans for they don't have Force of Will or some way to deal with them.

T1 Chalice @ 1 (or Blood Moon) requires the deck to be designed around that card (like Goblin Lackey does). It's a pretty limiting option from a deck design perspective. So I don't think you can call it a Best T1 play any more so than you can call Lackey or Llanowar Elf or Mother of Ruins the best. It doesn't fit into enough decks or strategies. If I'm calling a card a best T1 play it had better be a good T1 play in a bunch of different decks.

[iamajellydonut]

It doesn't fit into enough decks or strategies. If I'm calling a card a best T1 play it had better be a good T1 play in a bunch of different decks.

Like Sensei's Divining Top is?

[mini1337s]

Delver and Deathrite are both scary to have played against you on T1, especially if you are on the draw. Unlike Lackey or Vial, they can win the game without additional cards if it comes down to it.

[jrw1985]

Like Sensei's Divining Top is?

Well, SDT is a huge play for Miracles which happens to be the winningest deck in the format. I've also heard it goes well with a card called Counterbalance. Throw in all the fringe decks and it's clear Top is a strong T1 card across a wide range of deck-types, which I think qualifies it for this list.

[iamajellydonut]

Well, SDT is a huge play for Miracles which happens to be the winningest deck in the format. I've also heard it goes well with a card called Counterbalance. Throw in all the fringe decks and it's clear Top is a strong T1 card across a wide range of deck-types, which I think qualifies it for this list.

Sensei's Divining Top is a powerhouse in Miracles, and Miracles is indeed one of the most played decks right now. Nothing incorrect there. What I am disputing is that Chalice of the Void and Blood Moon are apparently seen in a significantly lesser variety. Which is wrong. They may not be in the most popular of decks, but they do serve as the bread and butter of a great variety.

In other news, where is Aether Vial on this list and where is Wasteland?

[PirateKing]

There is actually a good article outlining this.

http://www.starcitygames.com/article/28285_Threat-Value.html

The value of your first turn plays go beyond just what they do, it's what they signal your intentions to be. I thought it a quality read.

[Mr Miagi]

Force of will.. not even close.

[Koby]

Entomb
Dark Ritual
Gitaxian Probe
Lion's Eye Diamond

If we're going for T1 ridiculousness, at least make it win.

[Julian23]

Deathrite Shaman, Brainstorm and Wasteland. Only valid answers.

[jrw1985]

Deathrite Shaman, Brainstorm and Wasteland. Only valid answers.

I don't think many decks want to lead with Wasteland T1 on the play. The only time I want to lead with Wasteland is when I'm casting Vial and I don't want to give away which deck I'm on. And T1 Brainstorm doesn't maximize the card's potential like having a fetchland does. So I don't think either of those are ideal T1 cards. DRS is though.

[Dice_Box]

Tendrils of Agony. /thread.

Ok in a seriousness, it's dependent on your deck choice. I would think though, Bloodmoon, Chalice, Vial, Delver, DRS, Thoughtseize, Quirion Ranger and leaving mana open for Stifle and Brainstorm to me are the best options. I think, in a given situation, any one of these will be a great opening for a deck. The best openings for their respective decks.

Then you have Lotus Petal. Yea.

[rxavage]

Koby kind of beat me to it but I was going to say: Lotus Petal, Entomb, Reanimate or sol land into Lotus Petal, Show & Tell. Cheating in broken creatures is my jam.

[pcalexander]

T1 Island has to be the best.

[Julian23]

I don't think many decks want to lead with Wasteland T1 on the play. The only time I want to lead with Wasteland is when I'm casting Vial and I don't want to give away which deck I'm on. And T1 Brainstorm doesn't maximize the card's potential like having a fetchland does. So I don't think either of those are ideal T1 cards. DRS is though.

Fair. I completly misunderstood what this thread was aiming for.

T1 = Vintage, to me. lol.

[Megadeus]

I don't think many decks want to lead with Wasteland T1 on the play. The only time I want to lead with Wasteland is when I'm casting Vial and I don't want to give away which deck I'm on. And T1 Brainstorm doesn't maximize the card's potential like having a fetchland does. So I don't think either of those are ideal T1 cards. DRS is though.

Depending on my hand, I'm generally fine with Wasteland T1. If my opponent goes dual, pass, and I dont have a 1 drop but enough lands, I'll be fine with Wasteland on his dual. Or a tap land. If they go like, Creeping Tar Pit, go (Possible Shardless BUG opener) I'm wasting the shit out of it. I agree with the BS thing though.

[Megadeus]

Fair. I completly misunderstood what this thread was aiming for.

T1 = Vintage, to me. lol.

That's what I thought at first as well lol

[Pans-Advocate]

It seems pretty clear to me that the 5 best cards to play on turn 1 in Legacy are Deathrite Shaman, Aether Vial, Sensei's Divining Top, Delver of Secrets, and Thoughtseize. These cards carry more weight on their own than basically any other turn 1 plays in the format in my opinion and not very much else comes close. Cards like Chalice of the Void, Veteran Explorer, Dark Ritual, Entomb, Mother of Runes, and basically any cantrip are all strong in certain contexts, but there are basically no situations in the respective decks that these top 5 cards slot into that don't lend themselves to being very far ahead if you resolve these 1-drops.

[Rood]

Best 5 plays

Turn 1: Island- Delver Go
Turn 1: Swamp- Dark Ritual
Turn 1: DRS
Turn 1: Chalice
Turn 1: Top

[Bertrand Hustle]

I think the question for the topic headline should be rephrased to a given archetype/color, because T1 there are tons of relevant plays...

[Finn]

I have a question about the value of a turn 1 Top. Why is it good?

Put another way, turn 1 is the pinnacle of the game state dominated by lack of mana and board presence, but large hand size. I will call this a "tall and thin" state. As the game progresses, your hand typically gets smaller while your resource base of mana and board presence expand, giving you access to more options unless you run out of cards in hand. That is, your state is getting shorter and fatter. A good aggressive or control deck can convert its narrow start into a wider status as quickly as possible. Top seems to be actively working against that by improving the height of your hand quickly at a time in which you do not particularly need it at the expense of width. It lets you see more cards that you can't use.

It's a great card. I just question it's value on turn 1. I definitely prefer Ponder or even Brainstorm to do the job Top is doing on turn 1.

[Julian23]

Turn1 Top is definitely not a very strong play. It's pretty much the epitome of a weak play (in the context of the vacuum we are rating these plays in.)