Did Burn kill Zoo?

[morgan_coke]

This was something I was just thinking about the other day, how it's kind of sad Zoo isn't really an archetype in Legacy or Modern anymore. And I just had the thought that maybe the reason Zoo died wasn't because of the meta, or certain bannings or unbannings, but because they have finally printed enough good burn spells and good red creatures that Burn now does a better job of filling Zoo's role than zoo does.

Flame Rift, Boros Charm, Tyrant's Choice, Lightning Bolt, Chain Lightning, Rift Bolt, Shard Volley, Fireblast, Price of Progress, Goblin Guide, Hellspark Elemental, Eidolon of the Great Revel, Lava Spike, Bump in the Night, etc. etc.

I mean, there've been enough variations of Lightning Bolt printed that you can basically play an all bolts and mountains deck now. So, in what way is Zoo a better option than Burn if you've got enough in Red or Brown (Red/Black) to not need the green and white creatures?

Anyway, I guess I was just thinking about maybe the real reason Zoo went away is because it got outclassed as the pure aggro deck and didn't offer enough as a disruptive creature deck, which is why we see DnT/Maverick still making it, and Burn still making it, but no Naya at all.

[Barook]

As I see it, there are three main reasons why Zoo is dead:

1. It's too slow to race combo and lacks sufficient disruption tools (at least the aggro variant and not the Maverick-style midrange decks).
2. Delver shits on Nacatl while being ran in a very disruptive shell.
3. Terminus is dumb.

Burn isn't an aggro deck, it's a very linear combo deck. D&T isn't an aggro deck either, it's a creature-based Prison/control deck.

[nedleeds]

Delver and the Miracle Mechanic together with Brainstorm have made Zoo over a 9 round event a pretty bad choice if you wish to win </topic>

[ahg113]

Burn isn't an aggro deck, it's a very linear combo deck.

Agree with your analysis, but disagree that Burn is combo. None of the cards build off of each other in a manner of which, you need X, in order to do Y. Burn is more so a deck built with lands, and Xs. That's like saying every deck is a combo deck because in a combination, the cards result in your opponent dying.

Zoo died because Blue has the best aggro creatures (Delver, TNN, 'Goyf), and zoo doesn't have any meaningful interaction, nor card advantage engine, except for non-evasive creatures on the battlefield with a little burn and removal.

Cheers,
Am I doing it right, do I sound smart'ish?

[ESG]

This is a somewhat misleading thread title, making it sound like Burn pushed out Zoo. In fact, Zoo is quite strong against Burn and routinely races it via Wild Nacatl and Tarmogoyf (and Steppe Lynx back in the day). Zoo was also the only deck playing Lightning Helix, which is obviously a key card in the matchup. Your query about the decline of Zoo has been asked previously, and the answers are the same as they were then.

Creature strategies on the whole have suffered, which some people think is a problem (I have been vocal about this). The biggest reasons for that are:

http://magiccards.info/scans/en/c13/63.jpg

http://magiccards.info/scans/en/us/96.jpg

http://magiccards.info/scans/en/avr/38.jpg

[iamajellydonut]

I mean, there've been enough variations of Lightning Bolt printed that you can basically play an all bolts and mountains deck now.

This has literally been the M.O. of Burn ever since it first distinctly split from the standard RDW. Zoo died out almost three years ago of completely natural causes. The only reason Burn ever was and continues to be prevalent, aside from "fun", is because it's utterly simple to play and is one of the cheapest competitive decks in the format clocking in at about $400-475 cash. About half of that being flexible fetchlands.

[Admiral_Arzar]

The responses so far are good, and are putting pieces of the puzzle together, but there's more to it. I'm going to post an analysis I wrote some time ago on the Mtglegacy subreddit regarding the demise of Zoo. Source: I have played various incarnations of one-drop Zoo at numerous points, finally abandoning the deck for good after the printing of TNN.


Aggro has been dropping off ever since the printing of Batterskull. SFM + Batterskull is an extremely cheap and compact package that allows midrange and control to basically slam Baneslayer Angel on turn 3 (and it doesn't really die to removal, plus vigilance means you must overcome 8 lifegain per turn functionally). Sure, you can kill the mystic, but countermagic and Mother of Runes exist. This printing started the decline.

Innistrad brought two printings that warped Legacy - Delver of Secrets and Snapcaster Mage. Delver of Secrets passed Wild Nacatl as the best aggressive one-drop ever printed. It was blue, was not dependent on land types, and even had evasion. This printing made Canadian Threshold much faster, enabling it too kill nearly as quickly as Zoo while maintaining high consistency due to cantrips as well as enormous disruption and stack control. While it was not obvious at first, Delver.dec had largely made pure aggro obsolete. Snapcaster Mage had an entirely different impact. It gave control and mid-rangy blue decks functionally eight Swords to Plowshares while also providing a body to block with. Devastating two-for-ones against aggro decks became the norm, and a draw heavy on Plows and SCMs was almost impossible to play though, especially as these decks usually played SFM + Batterskull as well.

The next big hit came in Avacyn Restored. The Miracle mechanic produced a literal one-mana Wrath of God which requires only Brainstorm, SDT, or Jace to set up - cards that were already played in control decks to begin with. Miracles is an almost unwinnable matchup for aggro, which upsets the old "combo beats aggro, aggro beats control, control beats combo" cliche. In the same set, Griselbrand was printed. This card created a whole new fast combo archetype (TinFins) while returning Sneak and Show from the dead where it rightfully belonged. Sneak and Show in particular dodges most of the hate that aggro decks could pack for Storm and Dredge. Griselbrand makes Sneak much more consistent and powerful while being almost impossible to race.

Return to Ravnica block brought Enter the Infinite, creating the Omnishow deck, which is basically Sneak that doesn't lose to Sneak hate (Karakas, Gilded Drake, Pithing Needle, etc.). Now there was yet another combo deck that was difficult for aggro to hate out or race. You may be getting the impression that I hate combo decks - this is absolutely untrue as I am a combo player by nature. However, the impact of Show and Tell-based combo on the aggro archetype has been devastating, as there just aren't enough sideboard slots to prepare for another combo deck on top of aggro's traditional enemies (Storm, High Tide, Dredge, Reanimator to name a few).

This brings us to Return to Ravnica. Deathrite Shaman has empowered grindy midrange decks to a great extent (Jund is exhibit A). These decks are strong against pure aggro because of high amounts of removal and blockers along with card advantage to win the lategame. Deathrite Shaman provides acceleration, a clock, and the all-important lifegain to survive the early rush. Abrupt Decay isn't particularly important by comparison as it is just another removal spell.

Finally, we reach commander 2013. Delver wasn't enough, WOTC had to go and print a 3/1 Progenitus for 3 mana in heavy blue. Now every blue deck has a wall that aggro can't attack through and that can also carry Jitte or Batterskull for a blowout. This is obviously terrible for aggro decks unless they are also playing blue (Canadian Threshold says hi).

As you can see, WOTC has spent several years printing anti-aggro cards that empower midrange and control strategies to beat those matchups. This has allowed control to lock down the aggro matchup and also perform strongly against traditional combo using recent toys like Flusterstorm and Rest in Peace. They have also printed blue creatures that are stronger and more aggressive than non-blue alternatives, making Canadian Threshold and other tempo strategies like Patriot much more compelling than pure aggro. Finally, they have printed dumb permanents that have enshrined Show and Tell.dec as a third, difficult to hate out, combo pillar. All of these factors have combined to make pure aggro a difficult proposition, as you have very few good matchups and a heck of a lot of bad ones nowadays.

[(nameless one)]

I heard Batterskull is bomb against Zoo

[Rizso]

Pure aggro has been quite dead for a while now. Midrange is punishing them alot. It goes for every format standard, modern and legacy. Low dropps gets outclassed way faster then it used to. Especially in standard its showed easier. Courser / sylvan carytid invalidates pretty much ever 1-2 dropps. Polukranos, Master of Waves and Desecration demon puts the nail in to the coffins.

For modern lightning bolt, goyf, courser, Anger of the Gods and turn 3-4 combos hinders aggro.

Non-interactive aggro like zoo have comboproblems as well being easy to hate.

Wild Nacatl hasnt been a force in legacy and modern for years, nothing seem to making it either. Midrange and combo is everywhere.

[Lord Seth]

The responses so far are good, and are putting pieces of the puzzle together, but there's more to it. I'm going to post an analysis I wrote some time ago on the Mtglegacy subreddit regarding the demise of Zoo. Source: I have played various incarnations of one-drop Zoo at numerous points, finally abandoning the deck for good after the printing of TNN.The question is, then, why isn't Zoo great in Modern? Most of the things you listed aren't present in the format. Terminus is really weak in Modern and sees very little play due to the lack of Sensei's Divining Top and Brainstorm. Stoneforge into Batterskull doesn't exist. Show and Tell doesn't exist. Delver of Secrets exists, but it's much weaker because the best thing it has to transform with is Serum Visions. Deathrite Shaman is banned. True-Name Nemesis isn't legal.

I guess it is fair to point out that Zoo isn't as dead in Modern as it is in Legacy, but it's still not particularly impressive.

[Lord Seth]

Pure aggro has been quite dead for a while now. Midrange is punishing them alot. It goes for every format standard, modern and legacy. Low dropps gets outclassed way faster then it used to. Especially in standard its showed easier. Courser / sylvan carytid invalidates pretty much ever 1-2 dropps. Polukranos, Master of Waves and Desecration demon puts the nail in to the coffins.Wait, what? Aggro in Standard is fine right now. Sure, the biggest deck (Black Devotion) is midrange, but there's still plenty of aggro decks. I mean, you cite Master of Waves as an issue for aggro... the problem is that Master of Waves is a card that's played in an aggro deck, Blue Devotion.

I mean, a full half of the Top 8 at the last SCG Standard Open (Worcester) was aggro. There were three Blue Devotion decks, and then a Selesnya Aggro deck.

[Dark Ritual]

Because of terminus first and foremost. Burn is better because the creatures burn has all do something when they enter play except grim lavamancer if they play that card since goblin guide has haste as well as hellspark elemental. It's way easier to interact with creatures in comparison to flame rift and company just burning you out.

Zoo in modern is outclassed by combo decks like twin and storm and pod is really good against it as well with kitchen finks and just the piles of good creatures it runs that are good against zoo. Anger of the gods also hurts zoo a lot and is played because of pod.

In standard aggro is fine. That's what WotC pushes in standard anyways crappy format that standard is where people love to turn dudes sideways or cast sphinx's revelation for 6.

[lordofthepit]

Stoneforge Mystic + Batterskull pretty much killed normal Zoo, which the majority of players played.

Terminus pretty much drove away everyone else who was on Big Zoo.

True-Name Nemesis was the nail in the coffin for me and some of the last devotees on the Zoo thread (I was going to say "many", but that implies there were still many of us left).

It's not the fact that Zoo has a poor combo matchup that drove it out of the metagame: it always was inherently soft to combo, but you could tweak the deck to beat specific combo decks. Rather, it's the fact that even the fair matchups (which were once the reason to play Zoo) can give you issues that require very different strategies and cards to address, combined with the normal problems against combo. While it's probably still possible to make a Zoo deck that's competitive in the current meta, your efforts as a deckbuilder and pilot are probably more efficiently used elsewhere.

[mishima_kazuya]

The question is, then, why isn't Zoo great in Modern? Most of the things you listed aren't present in the format. Terminus is really weak in Modern and sees very little play due to the lack of Sensei's Divining Top and Brainstorm. Stoneforge into Batterskull doesn't exist. Show and Tell doesn't exist. Delver of Secrets exists, but it's much weaker because the best thing it has to transform with is Serum Visions. Deathrite Shaman is banned. True-Name Nemesis isn't legal.

I guess it is fair to point out that Zoo isn't as dead in Modern as it is in Legacy, but it's still not particularly impressive.

Creature power creep has mostly pushed away vanilla creatures from viability from Modern and Legacy. Like Pod and BGx in Modern have access to creatures that act as spells on a body. A few blocks and a few removal spells is usually all it takes for Midrange decks to start burying Zoo in card advantage.

Ditto for Legacy, as people have already said, why play vanilla 3/3s or 2/3s when you can play Knight of the Reliqurary, Stoneforge Mystic, Deathrite Shaman, Snapcaster Mage, Scavenging Ooze, etc,


I will also add to the argument that Burn is indeed a combo deck. It may goldfish slower than a typical combo deck, but in exchange you get to ignore half your opponent's gameplan of interaction, such as ignoring removal spells and Wasteland.

[Rizso]

While monoblue is an aggro deck it tends to play tempo. There is currently 4 t1 decks in standard, monored, monoblue, monoblack and jund-monsters, Sphinx is close to t1, the rest are t2 at best. Mono red the only pure aggro gets hated out easlie by to many mono blue decks in the meta.


Zoo has lots of bad matchups and inconsistant draws, even worse in modern with no sylvan library, gsz etc and Lighting Bolt and Anger of the God is everywhere. It gets hated by the hate that is targeting pod decks.

[Megadeus]

Stoneforge Mystic + Batterskull pretty much killed normal Zoo, which the majority of players played.

Terminus pretty much drove away everyone else who was on Big Zoo.

True-Name Nemesis was the nail in the coffin for me and some of the last devotees on the Zoo thread (I was going to say "many", but that implies there were still many of us left).

It's not the fact that Zoo has a poor combo matchup that drove it out of the metagame: it always was inherently soft to combo, but you could tweak the deck to beat specific combo decks. Rather, it's the fact that even the fair matchups (which were once the reason to play Zoo) can give you issues that require very different strategies and cards to address, combined with the normal problems against combo. While it's probably still possible to make a Zoo deck that's competitive in the current meta, your efforts as a deckbuilder and pilot are probably more efficiently used elsewhere.

Basically this. I tried an even more mid range version of Zoo (with Bobs, Bloodbraids, and Lingering Souls) and still was un-able to overcome SFM + Batterskull and Terminus. The tools that every fair deck has now is just too much. You just can't have a way to beat everything. At the point that you are playing enough cards to be able to beat all of these threats, you are suddenly way too slow for Nacatl to be good.

[Scott]

So, an aggro deck with built-in Batterskull killers: Harmonic Sliver, Terminus dodgers: Hibernation Sliver, TNN fly-overs: Galerider Sliver, and removal blankers: Crystalline Sliver is aggro's savior?

Half kidding.

[ESG]

So, an aggro deck with built-in Batterskull killers: Harmonic Sliver, Terminus dodgers: Hibernation Sliver, TNN fly-overs: Galerider Sliver, and removal blankers: Crystalline Sliver is aggro's savior?

Half kidding.

Don't forget Cavern of Souls, which smooths your mana and allows you to ignore Counterbalance. All told, Slivers have a lot going for them as a tribe. The biggest problem is the mana. But then there's the issue that Merfolk exists, which allows you to play the same game as Slivers but also run a bunch of basic Islands. And TNN is conveniently one of the fish.

[bakofried]

When every land is a rainbow land, is it a problem? That and Aether Vial could lead to some shenanigans.

[menace13]

Misstep and SFM into Batterskull. Along with the rise of Blade decks began the push and eventually steered the meta away from Zoo. Pre Batterskull, before May- New Phyrexia release- of 2011 and going as far back as 2009. Any of the following decks had high placings and would play musical chairs with the top stops. Using TC data. Not including the Survival+Vengevine months, which couldnt have helped Zoo either.

Zoo
Merfolk
Goblins
Dredge
DnT
Rock
Bant

Post Blade, after May 2011, it became 3 decks in the top spot.

Blade
Maverick
RUG order then September Misstep banning replaces it with RUG Delver

This little trio lasted until Avacyn Restored- May 2012- brought in Terminus and Grislebrand. TNN Then to even further rub it in to Zoo and crush any hopes of Nacatl lovers worldwide.

TL:DR Lord of the Pit's post. And ESG has pics!

[kiblast]

First of all, Zoo was dead before Terminus was printed imho, and was dead far before TNN was printed. Zoo died the second after solid GSZ.midrange decks were possible. Why would you ever play an aggro deck, when you can play an aggrocontrol deck that actually has a possibility G1 vs Graveyard strategies and combo decks?
Zoo died because of the natural evolution of legacy.Because the tools of combo and graveyard combo strategies were becoming stronger and faster and easier to set up, and creature strategies needed something to answer them instead of racing them (because racing combo and graveyard based decks was becoming harder and harder), so they adopted GSZ into Gaddock and Scavenging.
After that, Terminus and TNN have been the last nails in the coffin.

[Sloshthedark]

Delver, Batterskull, Terminus

I see some local guys do well with one-drop Zoo time to time, many deck are simply not prepared - see Burn, but generally, yeah the deck is half dead for years

[Admiral_Arzar]

The question is, then, why isn't Zoo great in Modern? Most of the things you listed aren't present in the format. Terminus is really weak in Modern and sees very little play due to the lack of Sensei's Divining Top and Brainstorm. Stoneforge into Batterskull doesn't exist. Show and Tell doesn't exist. Delver of Secrets exists, but it's much weaker because the best thing it has to transform with is Serum Visions. Deathrite Shaman is banned. True-Name Nemesis isn't legal.

I guess it is fair to point out that Zoo isn't as dead in Modern as it is in Legacy, but it's still not particularly impressive.




Zoo in modern is outclassed by combo decks like twin and storm and pod is really good against it as well with kitchen finks and just the piles of good creatures it runs that are good against zoo. Anger of the gods also hurts zoo a lot and is played because of pod.


Dark Ritual has hit the nail on the head here. Zoo has trouble with the creature-heavy combo decks common in Modern (hard to just race them when they have removal and/or lots of blockers - most Legacy combo decks have neither of these). It doesn't help that Pod has access to a lot of lifegain and value which is difficult to fight through. Paradoxically, because stack-based combo is much worse in Modern, everyone plays a ton of removal (you can stop splinter twin by just killing the Exarch). This makes the environment worse for Zoo, as in old Legacy Zoo preyed upon anti-combo blue decks that skimped on creature interaction. It's rare to see a card like Anger of the Gods in maindecks in Legacy, for example.




True-Name Nemesis was the nail in the coffin for me and some of the last devotees on the Zoo thread (I was going to say "many", but that implies there were still many of us left).

It's not the fact that Zoo has a poor combo matchup that drove it out of the metagame: it always was inherently soft to combo, but you could tweak the deck to beat specific combo decks. Rather, it's the fact that even the fair matchups (which were once the reason to play Zoo) can give you issues that require very different strategies and cards to address, combined with the normal problems against combo.

TNN was the last straw for me, I played one-drop Zoo as recently as last year but with very limited success. You are absolutely right about combo matchups - I have an undefeated record against Storm combo with one-drop Zoo, but generally had issues with Show and Tell and graveyard-based strategies. When you have to sideboard for three different combo pillars (Storm, Graveyard, A+B) that's already too much stress on your sideboard. Add in multiple "answer me or lose" cards out of fair decks - Batterskull, TNN, Terminus, etc. and you would need a 30-card sideboard.

[Megadeus]

To be fair, I think Spirit of the Labyrinth is a pretty solid card for Zoo in the board due to it's ability to fight combo in general (because Storm/Show and Tell are both on the 12-16 cantrip plan). I mean that doesn't make Zoo good, but I think vs combo you could actually have pretty decent game. Honestly it's like has been said. The former good MUs from fair decks have become bad since Batterskull is a beating as is Terminus. And TNN

[Barook]

Batterskull is a powerful card, but doesn't Zoo run 4 Pridemages to combat it somewhat?

And it's not just Zoo that suffered from Terminus. Maverick was basically wiped out in an instant and is now a T1,5-T2 deck, while it was one of the top decks of the format before.

I wonder if Zoo became any better if it could run Aether Vial. It's a key card in the D&T vs Miracles match to keep up the pressure (and assassinate Jace).

[Lemnear]

To be fair, I think Spirit of the Labyrinth is a pretty solid card for Zoo in the board due to it's ability to fight combo in general (because Storm/Show and Tell are both on the 12-16 cantrip plan). I mean that doesn't make Zoo good, but I think vs combo you could actually have pretty decent game. Honestly it's like has been said. The former good MUs from fair decks have become bad since Batterskull is a beating as is Terminus. And TNN

My friend, the topic of SotL has been discussed to death in 6 threads on TheSource (ANT, D&T, TES, SneakShow, Single Card Discussion, Spoiler thread) and the "OMG - Cantrips!" topic is still hot despite proven nonsense?

Zoo was outdated with the printing of GSZ which gave GWx decks a toolbox and combo hate in Gaddock Teeg and with Zenith the deck wanted to run Noble Hierarch first and KotR later as a supreme lategame option. Batterskull, which was printed in a later expansion of the same block GSZ was in, sealed the deal.

Delver had no influence at all and S&T was always a problem

[Megadeus]

My friend, the topic of SotL has been discussed to death in 6 threads on TheSource (ANT, D&T, TES, SneakShow, Single Card Discussion, Spoiler thread) and the "OMG - Cantrips!" topic is still hot despite proven nonsense?

Zoo was outdated with the printing of GSZ which gave GWx decks a toolbox and combo hate in Gaddock Teeg and with Zenith the deck wanted to run Noble Hierarch first and KotR later as a supreme lategame option. Batterskull, which was printed in a later expansion of the same block GSZ was in, sealed the deal.

Delver had no influence at all and S&T was always a problem

I'm not sure what you mean. Yes I understand they were discussed, but what? I think it is a fine card. Nothing amazing, but it's a cog in the plan that can help to keep your opponent from going off before you kill them.

And sure Zoo gets Pridemage, who is a good man in fighting BSkull, but they can still counter it/kill it before they put in BSkull or something. It certainly helps though. It's really just an overload of things that you have to be prepared to beat. I'm always surprised by how much people post about Zoo dying. I guess it was a very popular deck.

[iamajellydonut]

And sure Zoo gets Pridemage, who is a good man in fighting BSkull, but they can still counter it/kill it before they put in BSkull or something.

And Zoo can just Bolt the shit out of Stoneforge Mystic.

[Megadeus]

Sure there are definitely ways to beat it. But a single force on your removal spells is pretty bad for Zoo then.

[Lemnear]

I'm not sure what you mean. Yes I understand they were discussed, but what? I think it is a fine card. Nothing amazing, but it's a cog in the plan that can help to keep your opponent from going off before you kill them.

It does nothing against the usual T1/2 "fix all my bad keeps" cantrips, nothing against fast combo, nothing against a 7/7 flying lifelinker, nothing against Ad Nauseam/PIF, nothing against EoT SDT into Terminus, can be responded to with brainstorm to minimize the impact, etc.

All in all one of the worst hatebears possible

If you want to revive Zoo, it has to be on the back of GSZ, Noble hierarch, Pridemage, Nacatl, Guide, bolts and Sylvan Library

[LOLWut]

It does nothing against the usual T1/2 "fix all my bad keeps" cantrips, nothing against fast combo, nothing against a 7/7 flying lifelinker, nothing against Ad Nauseam/PIF, nothing against EoT SDT into Terminus, can be responded to with brainstorm to minimize the impact, etc.

All in all one of the worst hatebears possible

Why haz 22 Top 8 appearances in 6+ round tournaments? Big practical joke?

[Lord Seth]

Batterskull is a powerful card, but doesn't Zoo run 4 Pridemages to combat it somewhat?

And it's not just Zoo that suffered from Terminus. Maverick was basically wiped out in an instant and is now a T1,5-T2 deck, while it was one of the top decks of the format before.

I wonder if Zoo became any better if it could run Aether Vial. It's a key card in the D&T vs Miracles match to keep up the pressure (and assassinate Jace).Was it Terminus that got rid of Maverick? I thought Deathrite Shaman was a huge factor in that.

[Lemnear]

Why haz 22 Top 8 appearances in 6+ round tournaments? Big practical joke?

1) fix your grammar. I had to read it 3 times until I had an idea of what you trying to say
2) do you count one-/two-off random appearances as well? It looks like that way. Shall we count some 1-off Eiganjo Castles as well to prove how broken the land is? ;)
3) 22 SotL in total or deck what played at least one? See 1)
4) worldwide, european or US metagame?
5) in which timeframe? Since Release?
6) are you talking about D&T as the core while we are talking about Zoo aka no other lock-components?

[LOLWut]

1) fix your grammar. I had to read it 3 times until I had an idea of what you trying to say
2) do you count one-/two-off random appearances as well? It looks like that way. Shall we count some 1-off Eiganjo Castles as well to prove how broken the land is? ;)
3) 22 SotL in total or deck what played at least one? See 1)
4) worldwide, european or US metagame?
5) in which timeframe? Since Release?
6) are you talking about D&T as the core while we are talking about Zoo aka no other lock-components?

1.) I iz asooming you no haz heard of lolcat?
2.) Broken? I thought we were talking about a card being serviceable, and a viable choice. Eiganjo Castle has had 10 appearances, for the record, and is a viable piece.
3.) 22 decks with at least 1 SotL. Most play 2. For reference, in the same timeframe, Canonist has been made 2 main deck apperances, Thalia has made 64, Noble Hierarch has made 40, Rest in Peace has made 6. Plenty of possible discussion regarding number of slots, card's role, and appearances in sideboards, to be sure.
4.) Worldwide. (http://www.tcdecks.net/busqueda.php?token=Decks&tname=&nlow=33&nhigh=9999999&dlow=0&mlow=0&ylow=0&dhigh=0&mhigh=0&yhigh=0&player=&dname=&format=Legacy&aname=&pos1=on&pos2=on&pos34=on&pos58=on&main=spirit+of+the+labyrinth&nomain=&side=&noside=&strict=on)
5.) Since release. A little over 5 months.
6.) 19 are D&T, 3 are Maverick. You seemed to be talking about the card in general. I don't know if Zoo is a good place for it, but those results seem good for "one of the worst hatebears possible". Couldn't be totally useless in Zoo either. If you look at the search results, quite a few feature in lists from Top 8s in huge tournaments, like BoM and SCG. I remember you saying that it wouldn't be good in D&T.

[Megadeus]

I like it in combination with Thoughtseize. Obviously not Zoo, but I have been okay with it in Deadguy over Thalia in a non storm based meta.

[Barook]

Was it Terminus that got rid of Maverick? I thought Deathrite Shaman was a huge factor in that.
The rise of Miracles did.

DRS just sealed the deal since it made KotR into a slow, glorified tutor instead of a prime win condition.

[Freggle]

The rise of Miracles did.

DRS just sealed the deal since it made KotR into a slow, glorified tutor instead of a prime win condition.

Zoo can beat Miracles with a lot of Gaddocks K Grips, and Pridmages. True Name "killed" it.

[menace13]

Zoo can beat Miracles with a lot of Gaddocks K Grips, and Pridmages. True Name "killed" it.
It was dead WAYYY before. TNN simply buried the body.

[Lemnear]

1.) I iz asooming you no haz heard of lolcat? I'm obviously too old for this childish nonsense

2.) Broken? I thought we were talking about a card being serviceable, and a viable choice. Eiganjo Castle has had 10 appearances, for the record, and is a viable piece. The point is that the strategic relevance goes hand in hand with numbers. Obviously StoL or Eigenjo Castle are not that good that you want those in any game, which tells a lot about the Enchantment Creature, if it can't put up numbers in it's Natural Shell and within a format, which is nearly 90% based on Ponder + Brainstorm

3.) 22 decks with at least 1 SotL. Most play 2. For reference, in the same timeframe, Canonist has been made 2 main deck apperances, Thalia has made 64, Noble Hierarch has made 40, Rest in Peace has made 6. Plenty of possible discussion regarding number of slots, card's role, and appearances in sideboards, to be sure. I agree as mentioned in 2). Canonist is however a much stronger hatebear for the purpose of hating out storm, while SotL has very limited impact on combo decks overall (sans High Tide) and therefore one of the worst hatebears against combo.

4.) Worldwide. (http://www.tcdecks.net/busqueda.php?token=Decks&tname=&nlow=33&nhigh=9999999&dlow=0&mlow=0&ylow=0&dhigh=0&mhigh=0&yhigh=0&player=&dname=&format=Legacy&aname=&pos1=on&pos2=on&pos34=on&pos58=on&main=spirit+of+the+labyrinth&nomain=&side=&noside=&strict=on)

5.) Since release. A little over 5 months. I dunno if 22 showings withing like half a year is in any relation to how D&T performed overall in the same timespan or if SotL had any influence at all for the result of these 22.

6.) 19 are D&T, 3 are Maverick. You seemed to be talking about the card in general. I don't know if Zoo is a good place for it, but those results seem good for "one of the worst hatebears possible". Couldn't be totally useless in Zoo either. If you look at the search results, quite a few feature in lists from Top 8s in huge tournaments, like BoM and SCG. I remember you saying that it wouldn't be good in D&T. again: just because it's thrown in as a one-/two-off in hope to Vial it in as a response to Brainstorm, it appears to be only a tertiary lockpiece. As a standalone hatebear in Zoo (I asume for the body only) I can't see it pulling it's weight. I said SotL is crap back when and I've beat every SotL I faced so far with ease for what it's worth. Maybe because I was either playing decks which don't care for SotL like Miracles/Storm or could sidestep it (not casting Glimpse in Elves). I Stand by my point made 5 months back that SotL is an underwhelming hatebear and disagree with the idea, that SotL is Maindeck material BECAUSE of storm

[Rood]

I can't even remember the last time I saw somebody playing a Zoo deck. There came a point where it was pretty potent during the Merfolk era but those days have long since passed. I think stoneforge put a pretty serious hurting on this deck. Everybody also started playing Threshold after Delver got printed which smashes Zoo.

[Lord Seth]

I can't even remember the last time I saw somebody playing a Zoo deck. There came a point where it was pretty potent during the Merfolk era but those days have long since passed. I think stoneforge put a pretty serious hurting on this deck. Everybody also started playing Threshold after Delver got printed which smashes Zoo.Maybe I'm horribly wrong, but I thought Zoo was actually pretty good against RUG Delver? I mean, obviously RUG Delver is better on the whole when examining its good/bad matchups compared to Zoo's good/bad matchups, but I thought that when matched up together, Zoo had the advantage.

[lordofthepit]

Maybe I'm horribly wrong, but I thought Zoo was actually pretty good against RUG Delver? I mean, obviously RUG Delver is better on the whole when examining its good/bad matchups compared to Zoo's good/bad matchups, but I thought that when matched up together, Zoo had the advantage.

Zoo is favored against RUG Delver, but the latter still has nut draws that can beat any deck in the format.

[LeoCop 90]

I experience the same feeling as a goblins player. Well , weaknesses are a bit different than zoo because the massive card advantage of goblins don't really care about terminus, so terminus is more problematic for zoo. But i believe the main problem is true name nemesis.
Stoneforge into batterskull is good but you know, kill stoneforge or destroy batterskull. Wrath your board at the cost of W is good, but you know you can race miracles with a combination of creatures/burn spells (or be resilient to it like goblins). But what are you gonna do when on turn three progenitus comes down making every non flying creature unable to attack ?

[menace13]

But what are you gonna do when on turn three progenitus comes down making every non flying creature unable to attack ?


http://static.manacraze.com/img_full/ON/goblin+piledriver.jpg


TNN against a bunch of goblins will lose that race. In any other situation where Goblins isn't swarming that TNN could be a Goyf and you still cant attack into it. Same problem you described against TNN. Batterskull, however needs to be addressed as it gains 4 life while making blocks and attacks gaining 4 life. If Batterskull is outnumbered Goblins cant profitably swing in. And it can remove TNN, Goblins can Matron for Edict.