[fucking dammit] Commander 2014

[TsumiBand]

Am I just old and boring and set in my Magic ways? Or is this sincerely a stupid concept and no one else is looking forward to it?

I refer to the spoiled Teferi in Commander 2014 - a planeswalker with rules text stating it may be used as a Commander.

Forget for a minute that planeswalkers in general are less impressive in EDH for their relative weakness to the larger creatures; fundamentally, it's just a dumb idea because they are noncreature permanents. Uniqueness alone does not make a good commander; if you could play Umezawa's Jitte as your commander, would you really want to?

It also sort of feeds that whole 'commander-as-one-card-combo' thing that was a perceived problem for many people with last year's 'command zone matters' guys. Infinite Prossh/Jeleva/etc are dumb as fuck, you never have to cast Oloro, and so on. These sorts of commanders existed incidentally before but it feels different when they're published on purpose, right? Prossh is like their way of saying, "we know about Food Chain. DGAF. Enjoy your black tutors!"

And also just who wants to watch the slew of people going and building against other walkers. The rules didn't change of course, but the kids'll experiment and they'll wanna just roll with it, and that's kind of a problem with such a social PUG-oriented format. There have to be certain conventions in place, which is why it sucks when the RC makes a bad call and then encourages house rules for people that are upset. So people will show up with planeswalker EDH decks and try to sit down with randoms only to find that the group maybe didn't want any walkers as commanders at their table. So who's the bigger dick; the guy with the Teferi deck, or the guy that made their own rule? Buhhhh.

Grr, I mean yeah, as with all things the cards need the chance to speak for themselves, it's maybe not even a big deal. I don't care for the precedent though, and I really just don't want to see a bunch of "dude just let me TRY it once" JTMS commander decks because that's about as close to making Brainstorm your commander as one can get, and that's just real dumb is all.

[ShiftyKapree]

I love Commander and I'm excited for the new set even if it is mono-colored. As for combo's in commander those are the only decks I play in EDH, I can't see myself playing creatures for fun. Control I wouldn't mind playing but combo is fun because it's the brokenness that makes the game fun to me. Just to see cards that never see play in Legacy or have seen play in years makes it fun. Personally being "fair" in the format is boring and generic to me.

[Megadeus]

I always thought it would make sense to let Walkers be generals. In multiplayer at least, Walkers aren't even that strong.

[Esper3k]

I always thought it would make sense to let Walkers be generals. In multiplayer at least, Walkers aren't even that strong.

Yeah this.

I always felt thematically, if Legendary creatures can be Commanders, then I can't really get more Legendary than a Planeswalker.

[TsumiBand]

I love Commander and I'm excited for the new set even if it is mono-colored. As for combo's in commander those are the only decks I play in EDH, I can't see myself playing creatures for fun. Control I wouldn't mind playing but combo is fun because it's the brokenness that makes the game fun to me. Just to see cards that never see play in Legacy or have seen play in years makes it fun. Personally being "fair" in the format is boring and generic to me.
K but mostly I was talking about planeswalkers as commanders

[kirkusjones]

I feel like planeswalkers as commanders will be treated like any other commander. If they print one that turns out to be super abusable, it'll get treated like any other tricked out commander, the person with the pain in the ass deck will have a target on their head next game.

Edited because I posted when the sky appeared to be falling, turns out it's just overcast with a chance of Serra and friends.

[JPoJohnson]

Honestly - I look at Commander Spoilers as a way for WotC to release eternal cards without the standard interference E.G. True-Name Nemesis.

I'm fine with them doing whatever they want with them. I don't think mono-colored Walkers are going to dominate as a general since they just don't have the power that so many creatures do, but I guess we'll see whatever else is spoiler. I'm fine with them making changes like that. It doesn't really impact EDH at all since they aren't saying all walkers are generals, just some can be.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

So, WotC once again dick with a community-driven format in a way that sucks? Oh, colour me not surprised.
I'd love to elaborate a bit more on this theme, but I'm pretty tired from the weekend, so it must wait for tomorrow... maybe.

[Offler]

I will check the new Teferi at least... but anyways...

Some time ago we were playing funformat roughly based on EDH with one small change - planeswalkers instead of legendary creatures.

Anyways the idea of Teferi as planeswalker is ok when talking about the flavour. The spoiled mechanic seems bit odd.

Edit:
Jesus, it looks like made for my deck :D

[TsumiBand]

I guess the biggest thing for me is that planeswalkers as commanders are essentially like giving a player a way to make their commander a spell instead of a creature. I mentioned JTMS earlier because that's essentially someone saying they'd rather have Brainstorm as a general than a creature - and yes I know the rules have not apparently changed so anyone who did put Jace in the command zone is playing a non-legal deck. It's just, people will want to experiment with PWs in the command zone and then get all :( when those mean old bastards at the LGS tell them to maybe don't join their table.

It isn't about fairness or brokeness, I have my combo decks for when the situation arises, I just think it's a silly thing to dick with. Especially since the spoiled walkermander fails the Empty Board Test, it is so much easier for someone at the table to just beat with any old 5/5 and take it out the turn it hits. Compare to any given creature commander which, on an empty board, only prompts the other players to wonder if they should blow a removal spell on someone's commander.

I dunno. Maybe the moar I think on it, the less I care, but it is not the cleanest implementation in the world. Esp since it is likely that only 5 initial walkers will have this ability, so it will be "any legendary creature, or one of these five planeswalkers with special words on them"

[Offler]

Teferi, Temporal Archmage 4UU
+1 Look at the top two cards of your library put one into your hand and the other on the bottom of your library.
-1 Untap up to 4 target permanents.
-10 You get an emblem that says you can use the activated abilities of planeswalkers you control on any turn at any time you could use an instant.
You may use Teferi as your commander.
5

+1 ability is Sleight of hand. At 6 CMC? Just say NO.

-1 ability is somehow similar to Palinchron. just looking for a way how to break it, but its possible. you just need a way how to bounce him. Here I see why this guy has so high CMC.
Lets say you untap Vedalken mastermind and you already have active High Tide. Three permanents have to produce at least 8 mana and fourth has to be able to bounce... Can works also with Rings of Brighthearth.

-10 Speeds up all planeswalker based decks. Can be used on his own abilities which makes them much more usable but...

The "Static" ability seems weird no matter what.

Basically this planeswalker is something my deck was missing for some time.

[Megadeus]

I feel like planeswalkers as commanders will be treated like any other commander. If somebody shows up with Jace to be a dick, then he's the one with the target on his head next game, just as if someone were playing fully tricked out Zur, or Scion of the Ur-Dragon, or Azami, or in my own case, Norin the Wary if Confusion in the Ranks and Teferi's Puzzlebox stick for a few turns. Also, I know it's not nearly as oppressive as Braids, Cabal Minion as a commdander, but anyone think Lily of the Veil may see a ban as commander eventually?

They didn't make all PW's legal as commanders. Just the ones that will be printed in the new commander decks.

[TsumiBand]

They didn't make all PW's legal as commanders. Just the ones that will be printed in the new commander decks.
Right.

That's going to look really silly if there are never any planeswalkommanders to complement the five they're about to print. It's one thing to have a unique cycle of dudes, but the role of commanders is specific enough that noncreature ones lend themselves poorly to the role. Maybe not 'poorly' but ah... 'strangely'. Like already, Opal Palace is a nonbo with them (unless there's a Gideon I guess) and commander damage doesn't apply (...unless Gideon, hurp).

And besides, they just printed The Chain Veil. Here's hoping the left hand knew what the right was up to on that one, bleh.

[Ace/Homebrew]

Am I just old and boring and set in my Magic ways? Or is this sincerely a stupid concept and no one else is looking forward to it?

http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0337/8029/files/Knee_Jerk_large.png?886

Keep calm and Brainstorm.

[jcsy]

Let's 21 commander damage with my planes walker... Oopssss I can't... I'll just combo infinitely

-----------------------------------------------------
Tapatalked from HTC EVO 3D GSM
CM JB 4.4.2 | 10 July 2014 | NOOP

[TsumiBand]

http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0337/8029/files/Knee_Jerk_large.png?886

Keep calm and Brainstorm.
Heh, right.

Yeah I might be calming down a bit. I dunno. The prospect of noncreature commanders isn't a new idea, people have experimented with variants before. I guess I keep coming back to the apparent fact that for now it'll just be these five.

Isn't it sort of bad form from a 'old v new' walker angle, though? I thought Teferi was OG, he should be one of the deckbuilding walkers, not a pawn in some other fool's 100. Meh? Small issue.

[Ace/Homebrew]

I thought Teferi was OG, he should be one of the deckbuilding walkers, not a pawn in some other fool's 100.
I think this is precisely why Teferi was chosen as a Planesmander. He's such an Original Gangsta that he can lead the 99.
Anyways... it's a good time for pilots of Superfriends. :laugh:

By the way, my initial reaction was similar to yours. Although I immediately felt better after reading the Teferi thread on mtgcommander. If the RC was aware of this and thinks it is fine, then it can't be all that bad. They wouldn't be so nonchalant if these cards were going to ruin the format they are in charge of. :wink:

Is it time to start including Pithing Needle/Phyrexian Revoker in EDH?
I'm really looking forward to seeing what they do with Jaya Ballard!

[TsumiBand]

Yeaaaah, see, that's part of it too - getting a proper Jaya is maybe worth the odd mechanic.

I'll have to read the thread you speak of, though I tend to steer clear of those forums. I went a bit overboard due to some differences of opinion, ended up trolling pretty hard :P I suck, lol

[Ace/Homebrew]

http://mtgcommander.net/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=17114

The forum over at MTG Commander is a bit difficult to navigate.
Sheldon's comment on the matter: "And just so no one panics, there are no imminent rules changes to allow other PWs as commanders."

[Davran]

To be perfectly honest, I'm happy to sit down across from the guy with the planeswalker Teferi deck for a few reasons:

1. You're forced to be mono-U. Accordingly, the most busted thing you could do is get to his emblem and what...fateseal each opponent with Jace? Maybe alternate between +4 and -3 Karn? Of course this requires you to be deep into magical christmas land where your opponent lets you get your Teferi to 10 while you simultaneously have drawn, cast, and resolved some other planeswalker without just dying to combat damage. I suppose he works alright with Stasis...but I feel like there's plenty of ways to disrupt that kind of action too if someone in your meta takes that path.

2. As someone mentioned above, his +1 is Sleight of Hand...big deal. Arguably, I'd rather have Thassa, God of the Sea for this purpose...sure, it doesn't actually draw the card, but it is indestructible and 3 mana cheaper.

3. Ok, sure, you untapped 4 things. Again, the most busted thing you could do is float a bunch of mana from your various Monoliths...or maybe cast a High Tide? Palinchron already does mostly this, and Palinchron can actually attack if needed. Otherwise you're what...giving your blue sphinxes and fish vigilance? Have at it, hoss.

4. I still think the Chain Veil is a trap. This guy makes people play that mediocre card and think it's good. Win-win for me. I mean seriously...4 mana to Sleight of Hand twice? How will I ever recover from your awesome plays?

5. He doesn't attack. At all. Ever. In fact, he doesn't even present a way to win a game on his own. It's the epitome of playing a commander for the colors...except you're mono blue.

6. Dreadbore and Hero's Downfall exist, not to mention In Garuuk's Wake, Vindicate, Oblivion Ring, Necrotic Sliver etc. I'm even willing to bet Khans block will contain at least one new plansewalker kill spell, and I'm even willing to bet that the commander product will have some new plansewalker specific removal too. Teferi is OK at 6 mana...but once you're paying 8 or 10 for a Sleight of Hand you've got to be getting pretty far behind, right?


As for planeswalkers as commanders in general, I'm fine with it so long as it's restricted to planeswalkers that were designed that way. I wouldn't want to see some broader change where you could use Ajani Vengeant as your commander or something, but if WotC wants to explore this design space I'm all for it. Without seeing the rest of them (assuming there are more) I don't think this is a big deal. It'll certainly sell decks, but at the end of it all I think people are going to be mostly disappointed with their Teferi decks. Personally, I'd rather play Teferi (the legendary creature) as a commander any day.

[Offler]

I think this is precisely why Teferi was chosen as a Planesmander. He's such an Original Gangsta that he can lead the 99.
Anyways... it's a good time for pilots of Superfriends. :laugh:

By the way, my initial reaction was similar to yours. Although I immediately felt better after reading the Teferi thread on mtgcommander. If the RC was aware of this and thinks it is fine, then it can't be all that bad. They wouldn't be so nonchalant if these cards were going to ruin the format they are in charge of. :wink:

Is it time to start including Pithing Needle/Phyrexian Revoker in EDH?
I'm really looking forward to seeing what they do with Jaya Ballard!

I was playing Pithing needle in my deck for some years now. Very useful :)

Also I have deck specifically against commander centered decks. Some people do the mistake that everything is turning around the commander... so...:
Meddling mage
Declaration of Naught
Hinder
Condemn
Spell crumple
Spin into myth

and much much more cards... Most of them is against creatures, so if this Teferi the Planesmander is not on radar.

Anyways, original Teferi was always know as "combo protector" but having him as a Commander had few issues. Teferi as a planeswalker can be used as a integral part of combo deck. My mono-U Teferi deck is quite good example how to archieve it...

[TsumiBand]

Dreadbore is one of my favorite cards.

However, I often have trouble reconciling spot removal in an EDH deck save unique circumstances. Like, playing Kaalia and clearing the maybe-one-or-two flyers out of the way with StP/PtE before swinging is a good play, IMHO.

I dunno, I'm always the guy to say the cards need a chance to breathe before things are declared totally fuckered up. It's honestly pretty surprising to me just how few people are nerd raged about this change, so it kind of gives me pause and prompts me to evaluate my reaction.

The thing is -- EDH is more or less my primary home now, because that's the format that gets played around here (that and Modern, which is like - bitch please, I just had a baby, I'm not buying those high dollar staples until Nebraska weather figures out how to rain diapers). And it appeals to me because of its unique rules, so messing with them is a bit like changing a fundamental rule of 'regular' Magic - it makes me a bit wary. Like, one would not want to see something like a Mountain with "T: 1 dmg to target creature/player" and then text below it saying "-this- counts as a basic land" - it's *not* basic, it has a bloody ability, how can it be basic? So wait I get to put as many as I want in the deck now and search for them with Evolving Wilds and all kinds of Green spells? Sweeeeeeeet

So yeah, knee jerk reaction is jerky, I guess. vOv

[Ace/Homebrew]

Without seeing the rest of them (assuming there are more) I don't think this is a big deal.
From what I've read, each mono-colored pre-con will have an old school planeswalker that can be used as the Commander. They will also each have a legendary creature from that time period of Magic who never saw print on a card.

The best speculative list I saw was by Aggro_Zombies on MTGSal (although when I try to find it now it shows his most recent post was in February??).

Serra :w:
Teferi :u:
Leshrac or Tevesh :b:
Jaya :r:
Freylise :g:

He had the most likely candidates for the legendary creatures too, but since I never read any of the lore I am lucky to have remembered the 5 I did...

Edit: Found it! It was on MTG Commander (damn, Aggro_Zombies really gets around).


If they're going back and doing old walkers as cards, I don't see why the white one can't be Serra. Urza is almost certainly blue or blue-white, so we're not going to see him this time around.

My bets are: Teferi, Serra, Jaya, Leshrac/Tevesh, and Freyalise.

I like planeswalkers as commanders. They're imminently answerable and tend not to be very broken in this format. At the very least, they're not any more game-wrecking than half the staple bombs that people play these days. It also changes your deckbuilding dynamics since you can't rely on your general to outright win for you, and anything that breaks people out of On_Color_Staples.deck is alright in my book.

Commander players are just complainers. There are far worse things to complain about in this format than planeswalker generals.



Plus, we're getting traditional commander options for named characters who didn't appear in as cards (e.g., Gisa), so that's exciting. There's a lot of room for speculation as to which people they'll choose for the other colors. Toggo, Goblin Weaponsmith would make me happy for the red one.

[Davran]

However, I often have trouble reconciling spot removal in an EDH deck save unique circumstances. Like, playing Kaalia and clearing the maybe-one-or-two flyers out of the way with StP/PtE before swinging is a good play, IMHO.

EH, spot removal definitely has it's place in an EDH deck, but I get where you're coming from. I don't think this change makes it necessary to play RB or whatever to remove the busted planesmander or whatever...combat damage will work just fine.


I dunno, I'm always the guy to say the cards need a chance to breathe before things are declared totally fuckered up. It's honestly pretty surprising to me just how few people are nerd raged about this change, so it kind of gives me pause and prompts me to evaluate my reaction.

Every spoiler season WotC does something to ruin the game according to the collective minds of the internet. Usually the vitriol is reserved for Type 2 because that's the format for whining 12 year olds, but as commander gets more and more popular WotC is starting to meddle with that too. Bottom line is there are lots of people out there who have been waiting for this exact thing, and if that means more commander players at the LGS on Wednesday nights, I'm all for it.


EDH is more or less my primary home now

I'm right there with you. EDH is really the only constructed format that interests me these days - maybe that means I'm getting old or something, but whatever. As such, I'm much further into the "play what makes you happy" camp than I was a year ago. Maybe the planesmanders are busted in half, and you win games with it. Let's shuffle up for another.

The beauty of multiplayer magic is that it corrects itself. People remember your crazy "-10 my Teferi, resolve Stasis and Karn, pass" turn last week...so you can bet you're not getting there this week. Besides, if this whole thing turns out to be a terrible idea we all know the rules committee isn't afraid to swing the banhammer.

As it is, I don't find Teferi all that inspiring...but it sounds like it's exactly what Offler was looking for, so good on him. Maybe some of the others will be more interesting to me...but until we see them I'm still firmly in the "nice gimick" camp.

[HammerAndSickled]

I've played in groups that allowed Planeswalkers as generals pretty much since EDH got big around Alara/Zendikar, and honestly it's not busted at all. It's not like decks don't play Planeswalkers as it is, and since every EDH deck contains a ton of tutors and draw/deck manipulation it's not unusual to see one every game. None of the ones we tested were busted, not even JtmS, LotV, or Karn, because the fundamental rules of the multiplayer "big deck" games make walkers comparatively weak. Every deck has ways to pressure or kill them outright, they don't generate a big advantage the turn they come out, and the prospect of "waiting" on your Planeswalker to really generate a swing is laughable in the face of combo decks.

fact of the matter is, if you're competitive EDH has basically become Vintage without power. Decks almost always contain a combo as the kill condition, are filled with redundancy and disruption and tutors, and are generally capable of ending the game very early. If you're not competitive, you have a cool format with big plays and swingy mechanics and long, grindy games where everyone's exchanging haymakers. In neither of these situations are Planeswalkers too good, so just let people have their fun and do what they want, and find a group that matches how you want to play.

[Richard Cheese]

I call bullshit because none of his abilities involve phasing.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

As for planeswalkers as commanders in general, I'm fine with it so long as it's restricted to planeswalkers that were designed that way. I wouldn't want to see some broader change where you could use Ajani Vengeant as your commander or something, but if WotC wants to explore this design space I'm all for it. Without seeing the rest of them (assuming there are more) I don't think this is a big deal. It'll certainly sell decks, but at the end of it all I think people are going to be mostly disappointed with their Teferi decks. Personally, I'd rather play Teferi (the legendary creature) as a commander any day.

Pretty much this and all the other points you've made.
Basically they made a useless thing that brings new mess and is really pushed, etc., etc. Why they cannot think about more important things than this kind of needless stuff like Legendary Planeswalker Trap Enchantment Monster Arcane Settlement - Jace on Lili in Shower.

Bah.

[Davran]

just let people have their fun and do what they want, and find a group that matches how you want to play.

This is the best advice I've seen on a commander related forum in a long time. So much of the whining and calls for banning X card for being "too good" would be solved if more people subscribed to this kind of thinking.


I call bullshit because none of his abilities involve phasing.

Jokes aside, something like:

+1: Target permanent an opponent controls gains phasing until your next turn (or something similar) would actually be kind of neat. You could play politics with it by phasing their commander or whatever and pulling the trigger on an Evacuation, or delay some big fatty from swinging at your face for a turn. I don't think that would be too oppressive either since the thing wouldn't phase back in until after you phased something else out, so you're not putting their dude on permanent lockdown or anything. Of course the problem with that is explaining phasing to the rest of the kitchen table crowd...so I can see why they left it off.

[kirkusjones]

Phasing really isn't anymore complicated than something like Detain, instead of your creature being "in jail" until my next turn, it just went out for a pack of cigarettes. It'll be back, don't worry.

[Davran]

Phasing really isn't anymore complicated than something like Detain, instead of your creature being "in jail" until my next turn, it just went out for a pack of cigarettes. It'll be back, don't worry.

Yeah, I totally agree...but trust me, I've had to explain actions and effects that are way simpler than phasing (which ain't even hard).

[Offler]

I play Vanishing.

I have to explain that it works like:
So it triggers enter/leave battlefield? Are the creatures affected by summ sickness?
- Phased out permanent does not leave battlefield. Phased out is state of the object similar to "tapped".
- When phased out, the permanents are treated like they are not on the battlefield.

When the phase-in/out occurs?
- Permanents phase in before untap step

But when you activate Vanishing it goes to graveyard
- Vanishing and all auras or equipments phase out with the permanent they are attached to

Just guess how many times was judge called :)

Something more on topic...

I was more like annoyed by presence of Gods in last standard sets. Most skilled players actually dont need them to turn into creature. It was quite interesting trick how to smuggle enchantment into position of commander.

I agree that line "you may play this planeswalker as your commander" is something different. This is the way how Magic worked for me. They came with something not usual and it may be impressive in the play.

[Aggro_zombies]

I don't really understand all the negativity. I feel like having a planeswalker as a general is just worse than having a legendary creature as a general unless you are the most pillow-forty pillow-fort deck in the history of the game, especially with how much creatures have been power crept these days. If your metagame is Vintage Lite, the planeswalkers will likely be too slow to compete with Tier I generals. If your metagame is a hypothetical midrange casual paradise, there should be enough random creatures lying around to keep you off the ultimate unless you're taking a bunch of extra turns in a row or cheating with Doubling Season.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

I don't really understand all the negativity. I feel like having a planeswalker as a general is just worse than having a legendary creature as a general unless... you're taking a bunch of extra turns in a row or cheating with Doubling Season.

Very few people (if any at all) are arguing that Teferi will be overpowered general. Some people (including me) argue that it's an ugly idea with little to none elegance. What I especially dislike is WotC's continuous twiddling with a format that's kinda "stand alone" thing, and the fact that they exploit it via "Buy us!" products that include hideously designed cards.
Magic definitely needed more Delvers, Oloros and Teferis. /sarcasm

[Ace/Homebrew]

Man, no wonder people call EDH "that cry-babies format"! :wink:

[Bed Decks Palyer]

Man, no wonder people call EDH "that cry-babies format"! :wink:

I don't cry because of EDH, I cry because of shitty design... :wink:

[Davran]

Very few people (if any at all) are arguing that Teferi will be overpowered general. Some people (including me) argue that it's an ugly idea with little to none elegance. What I especially dislike is WotC's continuous twiddling with a format that's kinda "stand alone" thing, and the fact that they exploit it via "Buy us!" products that include hideously designed cards.
Magic definitely needed more Delvers, Oloros and Teferis. /sarcasm

I fully support the mothership dipping their hand into the EDH pool with new cards as it brings new people into the format and helps me to improve my decks and/or make some new brew. That said, I think they let things slide a little more than they might with a standard legal release because this isn't a sanctioned format that the DCI ever has to worry about trying to rein in. By and large though, they haven't printed anything that's been too far over the line yet. Oloro is close, but honestly you can really hose that deck if that's what you want to do.

This whole planesmander thing isn't going to ruin anything, so let the people that have wanted it all along have their fun. Who knows, maybe one of the other ones is more interesting than Teferi...

[TsumiBand]

Yeah, so, I've been slowly talking myself out of my dislike for this idea, because I certainly run my share of commanders-as-spells already.

The biggest offender in my personal arsenal is probably Sedris, the Traitor King. In concert with that degenerate Deadeye Navigator and an assortment of other effects, it also lives in the same colors as the best draw and tutors in the format. This has been my go-to "eff this table" combo deck for a while (though it can also play fair and just reanimate guys/Unearth guys, but ultimately it leans on Mike-Trike or Palinchron+DEN for 10^43 Grixis mana and then durpings of a variety of things), so I can't complain like "urrrr planeswalkers are just their +1 abils lulz your Teferi commander is Sleight of Mind" because those kinds of commanders are all over the place.

As for existing infrastructure around commanders - think about how even though Lightning Greaves/Swiftfoot Boots gets printed in these sets, mass removal is still arguably the go-to answer for problem creatures and/or commanders. By printing a run of walkers that fit in the commander slot, it puts emphasis on a different kind of removal, and just as well - the creatures in the format will be keeping the walkers in check. At the very least, they'll be commanders that don't happen to also fold to every Wrath variant under the sun. As for obvious nonbos like Opal Palace - well just maybe don't play that, right? I wouldn't play Light of Day in a Vish Kal deck, what makes Opal Palace not subject to the same scrutiny?

So yeah, I'm trending towards neutral on this set's premise. It'll be interesting to be how the mono-colored nature affects the supplemental product, especially the mana production; obviously there will be no Command Tower in this set, it would be senseless. Sol Ring, probably? Medallions, meh... Monoliths? Caged Sun? Extraplanar Lens? Hmm.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

I fully support the mothership dipping their hand into the EDH pool with new cards as it brings new people into the format and helps me to improve my decks and/or make some new brew.

There are what, 1500 cards printed annualy? Isn't that enough space to... make and use some space? I hardly believe there's a need for such ugly design features like planeswalkers, transform cards, transform planeswalkers cards and such.
But then again I'm from that really conservative and old part of MtG subculture that welcomed return to pre-6th rules of combat dmg, I despised the glued-in PWs and I had a very strange feelings about hybrid mana (but strangely: I never felt annoyed by Phyrexian mana) as it removed part of the purity that the there once was, the quantum of Magic that is metered in W, U, B, R, G and nothing in between.
Oh well, shit happens. Seriously I'd love to not look like a fanatic hater of Teferi (and everything new), I mostly don't care about it. Magic design went so far over the years and there's so much balast, mistakes and ugly features that in the world of thousands crap-cards in 27 different frames, one shouldn't worry about anything.

Bye.

[Davran]

There are what, 1500 cards printed annualy? Isn't that enough space to... make and use some space? I hardly believe there's a need for such ugly design features like planeswalkers, transform cards, transform planeswalkers cards and such.
But then again I'm from that really conservative and old part of MtG subculture that welcomed return to pre-6th rules of combat dmg, I despised the glued-in PWs and I had a very strange feelings about hybrid mana (but strangely: I never felt annoyed by Phyrexian mana) as it removed part of the purity that the there once was, the quantum of Magic that is metered in W, U, B, R, G and nothing in between.
Oh well, shit happens. Seriously I'd love to not look like a fanatic hater of Teferi (and everything new), I mostly don't care about it. Magic design went so far over the years and there's so much balast, mistakes and ugly features that in the world of thousands crap-cards in 27 different frames, one shouldn't worry about anything.

Bye.

After 20 years of designing cards they're bound to come up with a few gimicks like flip cards, split spells, and even planeswalkers as commanders. There are only so many variations of Lightning Bolt you can print before people get bored, and stuff like this keeps the product moving out of the store.

Like it or not, all of the changes to the rules and the gimicky cards have made this game we play more popular than ever. I guess that means they must be doing something right.

[TsumiBand]

Like it or not, all of the changes to the rules and the gimicky cards have made this game we play more popular than ever. I guess that means they must be doing something that sells.

Ftfy, though not nearly as snarkily as it might appear. Let us not conflate the terms, however correlated they may appear :)

[Amon Amarth]

They'd probably have to make the new PW commanders broken before I play them. There are far too many weakness PW suffer from to consider making them my commander. Additionally, Pithing Needle is super brutal. Which I find to be pretty funny. I do like the general idea (zing) of making PW's commanders though.

[TsumiBand]

In listening to the MtG Comic Con panel, for some reason it's comforting knowing that the RC did actually give this idea its 'blessing', allegedly.
Mostly I withdraw my gripe.
They could still screw up though. :) There's a lot of colors left.

[Megadeus]

Would any walker even be "OP" as a commander? Maybe 1v1 it would be one thing, but in multiplayer even the Karns/Nicol Bolas's of the world are probably fine.

[TsumiBand]

Yeah its almost like your commander trades in weakness to Wrath for giving your opponents creatures Provoke. I wonder how good they can actually be. If this is the Blue one... hmm

[menace13]

Would any walker even be "OP" as a commander? Maybe 1v1 it would be one thing, but in multiplayer even the Karns/Nicol Bolas's of the world are probably fine.
Most likely only in 1v1. French rules variant is a better format. online 1v1 is broken as fuck all

[Dice_Box]

I don't play the format, but I play Modern with a fair few people that do. So far, what I am hearing is that they dislike the need to build a control shell around this guy. That's the complaint I get the most. He will create another control deck as that's what's needed to play him effectively.

[TsumiBand]

I don't play the format, but I play Modern with a fair few people that do. So far, what I am hearing is that they dislike the need to build a control shell around this guy. That's the complaint I get the most. He will create another control deck as that's what's needed to play him effectively.
Maybe? I mean mostly it will have to work at keeping him on the battlefield, which is a mixed bag for the stated reasons.

I hope that Teferi isn't the one they 'pushed' because if planeswalker-based EDH decks are even gonna work they have to be awesome engines, right - else they offer very little over a creature. The one-shot-a-turn thing is gonna punch these guys in the breakfast, and everyone trying to Voltron together a Chain Veil/Strionic Resonator/whatever-else-copies-abilities deck is going to be suuuper predictable. They can't even 21 damage a guy out of the game, so if they don't embiggen the deck they're on on the merit of being a walker, they just don't do anything.

[Davran]

Would any walker even be "OP" as a commander? Maybe 1v1 it would be one thing, but in multiplayer even the Karns/Nicol Bolas's of the world are probably fine.

The "best" for multiplayer is probably Garuuk 1.0 at the helm of a tokens deck I guess? Make a bunch of wolves and beasts or whatever, jam the Garuuk and Overrun for the win? Personally, I'd rather have Kahmal, Fist of Krosa for such a thing, but I could see Garuuk filling that role fairly well. He would let you play your ramp spells and token makers while holding up mana for Tangle and Constant Mists or whatever to keep him alive long enough to "go off"...but I dunno how powerful that would be compared to a typical Asuza or Omnath list.

[TsumiBand]

Yeah it's hard to think of any that would be really OP, though many make for 'interesting' decks. I could see someone trying to get there with Gideon; play his +1 to get a bunch of loyalty on him, then play one of White's 49 spells that say "destroy all" on it, and then start 2-hitting people out of the game with his 0? It's gimmicky, but funny.

Now that I think about it, I want nothing more than to do precisely that. Get to 8 mana, be like "+1 Gids, he's got... 17 loyalty apparently? Wrath; Armageddon. Cool? Seems good. I'll pass."

I play the shit out of Geddons in EDH, I don't give a

[Ace/Homebrew]

French rules variant is a better format.
Do you even lift, bro? :tongue:

What makes the French variant better? Net-decking? Hyper-competitiveness? Ubiquity?
You sure you wouldn't rather be playing Legacy?

EDH was designed as a casual multiplayer format. 'French rules' is neither.

[menace13]

Do you even lift, bro? :tongue:

What makes the French variant better? Net-decking? Hyper-competitiveness? Ubiquity?
You sure you wouldn't rather be playing Legacy?

EDH was designed as a casual multiplayer format. 'French rules' is neither.
For 1v1 games only. I feel it is the best balanced version of EDH. Not for multiplayer. And yes, I'd always rather be playing Legacy :P

[TsumiBand]

I've played very little 1v1 with the intention of playing a deck aimed at 1v1, though I did just recently throw together a Skullbriar list with the intent of playing against "less than 3 opponents", so we'll see how that goes. vOv

I think I agree that a 1v1 setting makes the planeswalkermanders much more attractive. Especially if you're playing the French rules; IIRC 30 life and several fewer broken cards (though still plenty) make it a little less crucial to be playing giant Destructicon-sized creatures. They still kind of have the half-an-engine problem of being stuck on one activation per turn whereas a creature commander of a similar ability wouldn't necessarily have that problem (or it would be more easily mitigated, generally speaking - the ways in which one can replay planeswalker abilities are fairly limited in scope at present).