Commander 2014 thread

[Cire]

You'd need Ghostly Flicker for that wouldn't you?

I don't think so - but Ghostly Flicker can make infinite mana with this card. I thin cloudshift works like this. 1) Cast cloudshift targeting another creature you control - lets say Soul's Attendant 2) Cast Dualcaster copying the cloudshift. The copy targets Dualcaster 3) repeat over and over again. Ghostflicker would allow you to keep on flickering a land as well for infinite mana.

[Zombie]

I don't think so - but Ghostly Flicker can make infinite mana with this card. I thin cloudshift works like this. 1) Cast cloudshift targeting another creature you control - lets say Soul's Attendant 2) Cast Dualcaster copying the cloudshift. The copy targets Dualcaster 3) repeat over and over again. Ghostflicker would allow you to keep on flickering a land as well for infinite mana.

Ah yeah with an Attendant or the like, yeah you'd get infinite triggers. Much cheaper too.

[Cire]

I mean its still a 5 mana 3 card combo that only gives infinite life - and I can't remember when infinite life combo's were good in legacy?

[rufus]

Just wondering . . . can Dualcaster combo with flicker effects?

Cloudshift - target another creature - Dualcaster - copy target Dualcaster - profit off infinite ETB effects? Best I can come up with is an Infinite Life combo with Soul's Attendant and Essence Warden - that's a 5 mana 3 card combo. . . that will buy you time to get the twinflame combo? Genesis Chamber for infnite tokens?

Bramblesnap, Extractor Demon, or Forgeborn Oreads could work too. Still bad.

[Tylert]

Bramblesnap, Extractor Demon, or Forgeborn Oreads could work too. Still bad.

Not bramblesnap... because you'll have to resolve the very first cloudshift copy and it would flicker bramblesnap.
You need another creature in play to do that.

[apple713]

Hmm... is there something better than Protean Hulk with Wake the Dead?

footsteps of the goryo

[rufus]

footsteps of the goryo

I was thinking in terms of the reanimation target. Something like 2xFlayer of The Hatebound.

[zulander]

I mean its still a 5 mana 3 card combo that only gives infinite life - and I can't remember when infinite life combo's were good in legacy?


well if you gained 13203213092183012983092183 life and your opponent has less cards in their deck don't they just deck themselves and you win?

[rufus]

well if you gained 13203213092183012983092183 life and your opponent has less cards in their deck don't they just deck themselves and you win?

For a while there, lots of decks were playing Emrakul, The Aeons Torn, which made that unlikely.

[bruizar]

A draw against all emrakul decks and a win against all others that cannot win with infinite damage or grindstone sounds good enough.

[alphastryk]

A draw against all emrakul decks and a win against all others that cannot win with infinite damage or grindstone sounds good enough.

Jace.

[TsumiBand]

Emrakul and Jace are still subject to FUKM though - if you can win before 50 minutes and 5 turns without stalling, go ahead and do it in the face of the opponent's 2^57 life total.

I don't understand what makes drawing your n+1 card any different than having your life total go below 1 - quit scooping to these decks and make them actually freaking kill you. I know Jace exiles your library, but as long as we're already in Candyland with Dualcaster Combo, it isn't entirely unlikely that there will be a threat onboard to keep Jace off his ultimate (either Dualcaster, or whatever threat it helped resolve through your counter when it Forks your counter back at you). What are you going to do, -1 it with Jace? Seems good :(

[Cire]

Another awful decklist coming up

4 Essence Warden
4 Soul's attendant
4 Dualcaster
4 Simian Spirit Guide

4 Twinflame
4 Worldly tutor
4 Cloudshift

4 Lotus Petal
4 Chrome Mox
4 Rite of Flame

16 Lands

I'm sure someone can make a much better deck list. The Goal is to combo to infinite life on turn 2, and then eventually twinflame combo. Or just twinflame if you get lucky. Either way - this deck has NO protection - but it could be the start of a new combo deck although I very much doubt it.

[rufus]

Another awful decklist coming up...

How about something like:

High Tide
Brainstorm
Ponder
Cloud of Faeries
Snapcaster Mage
Doublecaster
Snap
Twinflame
Intuition
Force of Will
Blue Sun's Zenith

[Scott]

Shitty tribal deck alert

Flamekin Village
Land
As Flamekin Village enters the battlefield, you may reveal an Elemental card from your hand. If you don't, Flamekin Village enters the battlefield tapped.
Tap: Add :r: to your mana pool.
:r:, tap: Target creature gains haste until end of turn.

[Sylphnir]

New planeswalker:
http://i.imgur.com/tHH777m.jpg
Seems like red will be the commander deck to go. (if the wurmcoil is indeed in red)

[Tylert]

What are the good artifacts you can cheat into play on T2?? :)

T1: Mountain: cast faithless looting discard a big artifact.
T2: Chrome mox / mox diamond + ancient tomb / city of traitors: cast darretti, sac the mox, return the artifact to play.

[Quizzlemanizzle]

What are the good artifacts you can cheat into play on T2?? :)

T1: Mountain: cast faithless looting discard a big artifact.
T2: Chrome mox / mox diamond + ancient tomb / city of traitors: cast darretti, sac the mox, return the artifact to play.

Goblin Welder is better.

[Lemnear]

New planeswalker:
http://i.imgur.com/tHH777m.jpg

WTF? In Vintage, this is a Planeswalker with a Thirst 4 Knowledge and a Goblin Welder attached! Drop this guy, discard your Sundering Titan and other robots to draw cards and reanimate them the next turn with the -2 ability.

See also: Mindslaver

Let this dood join sides with Dack Fayden and Memnarch and wreck havoc

[TheDarkshineKnight]

Goblin Welder is better.

Yes...and no.

Welder's obviously got the time advantage on his side, being one mana and all, but Daretti has functional haste, is a looting engine, and isn't vulnerable to creature removal. Both are powerful cards, regardless.

[ivanpei]

I play legacy MUD and this guy is pretty good. Welder has issues with Chalice of the Void. Ditto faithless looting.

I think it might be playable in MUD since it solves both card quality and gas problems. It might not solve MUD inconsistencies but it's a step in the right direction.

[Zombie]

Still. wtf. red walker does interesting things, fixes hand, has potential for brokenness. This isn't WotC R&D's work, someone there has been replaced with an alien impostor.

[Bobmans]

New planeswalker:
http://i.imgur.com/tHH777m.jpg

Awesome, Andretti MUD here we come!!

[Barook]

I assume the Wurmcoil Engine is also part of the red deck. Overall, the red commander decks looks better and better.

They also printed a red Living Death for artifacts:

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/63/652/635501538785285510.jpeg

As far as Daretti is concerned, he seems pretty cool. Even if you don't have artifacts to reanimate immediately, it can filter through your cards, which is pretty awesome. He seems like a pretty good fit in Imperial Painter - filters dead cards and reanimates key cards.

By far the most interesting red PW Wizards has printed so far.

[Quizzlemanizzle]

Commander again making me buy cards for my collection. Thank god for commander products and potentially legacy playable new cards.

Going to have to get a set of Daretti, Dualcaster Mage, Malicious Affliction, Bitter Feud and a few 1ofs for Commander.

[H]

Even if we concede that Welder is better than this guy (highly debatable), you can run both in a deck, so, even if this is Welder 5-8 or whatever, that's still pretty good.

The fact that this guy only costs 1 Red is massive. A CMC of 4 is in that rarefied air for Planeswalkers and unfortunately, like Dack, this guy doesn't have an ability to really protect himself. I think this makes it a close but not quite for Legacy, but I think he will be playable in Vintage.

[Quizzlemanizzle]

The question is how many slots can a deck afford to give to Goblin Welder, Dack Fayden and Daretti while also running the usual suspects Brainstorm, Ponder, Treasure Cruise and Force of Will plus the artifacts to fuel Welder and Daretti.

Daretti can defend himself in a sense when you reanimate a Wurmcoil Engine.

[dave8]

The question is how many slots can a deck afford to give to Goblin Welder, Dack Fayden and Daretti while also running the usual suspects Brainstorm, Ponder, Treasure Cruise and Force of Will plus the artifacts to fuel Welder and Daretti.

Daretti can defend himself in a sense when you reanimate a Wurmcoil Engine.

or Ensnaring Bridge.

[Gheizen64]

Some really nice cards, but costing 3R really killed that walker, if he were 2R he'd be so amazing in legacy. The Living ARtifact death is for vintage, and can work as a sort of second sunrise engine too.

[Bobmans]

I assume the Wurmcoil Engine is also part of the red deck. Overall, the red commander decks looks better and better.

They also printed a red Living Death for artifacts:

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/63/652/635501538785285510.jpeg

As far as Daretti is concerned, he seems pretty cool. Even if you don't have artifacts to reanimate immediately, it can filter through your cards, which is pretty awesome. He seems like a pretty good fit in Imperial Painter - filters dead cards and reanimates key cards.

By far the most interesting red PW Wizards has printed so far.

It looks as the most awesome printed set for red (and artifact interaction) since Wildfire.dec in the Urza Block.
Just preordered a Commander 2014 red deck right away :-)

[bruizar]

Preordered 4

[Barook]

Some really nice cards, but costing 3R really killed that walker, if he were 2R he'd be so amazing in legacy. The Living ARtifact death is for vintage, and can work as a sort of second sunrise engine too.
He seems borderline playable in the right deck. If Imperial Painter can run Koth or Chandra, I fail to see why it can't run Daretti, especially since he's easier to cast due only requiring :r: instead of :r::r:.

An U/R deck, as Quizzlemanizzle mentioned, sounds interesting, especially since you can gain retarded amounts of card quality and advantage with lots of loot effects + Treasure Cruise.

[rufus]

...
An U/R deck, as Quizzlemanizzle mentioned, sounds interesting, especially since you can gain retarded amounts of card quality and advantage with lots of loot effects + Treasure Cruise.

If he stays on the table, he's going to be a beating. The concern is that his self-defense ability is pretty limited.

[Memories of the Time]

P. Fire, loam, dack+Daretti, b. Wish (or no), cruise, thirst... Draw your deck and put mindslaver in play. With Chalice and D.mox, creatureless (just Vendilion and/or wurmcoil)

[TsumiBand]

Daretti looks super solid and fun, in EDH anyway. In Legacy... it remains to be seen, but that's the best + ability on any mono-Red walker pretty much ever and it can feed the - ability pretty succinctly. Seems a decent trade for not being able to guard itself; if you wanted him safe youda pitched Basking Rootwalla to his + ability, right?! Can we start playing Madness again now? I want to Violent Eruption all the things. So damn bad.

My only sads is that they didn't stick with the 'old walkers' theme - it would have been an entirely different card if it'd been Jaya, but god damn did I want it to be Jaya pretty badly. I was even willing to endure some stupid "well see, Ob-Nix is secretly an old walker because" bilge from the mothership. But nah, we have two olds and two news, makes me far less hopeful about the White one being Serra :/

...but that's kid shit. Bring on the 8-Welder decks!

[bruizar]

If he stays on the table, he's going to be a beating. The concern is that his self-defense ability is pretty limited.

+2 puts him on 5, that's quiet a lot. Often Jace also +2's instead of -1's to protect itself.

[MGB]

Daretti seems custom-designed for Vintage Workshop decks.

Could be quite a house in Legacy too though, in a Painter-Stone or Metalworker list of some kind.

[Quizzlemanizzle]

Nahiri sucks. Double white and 5cmc in a color without ramp, again just 3 starting loyalty and at 5 mana she seems considerably worse than 4cmc Elspeth

http://media.wizards.com/2014/c14/aakdfnppleih2/en_1d2a540q3j.png

[Barook]

Nahiri sucks. Double white and 5cmc in a color without ramp, again just 3 starting loyalty and at 5 mana she seems considerably worse than 4cmc Elspeth

http://media.wizards.com/2014/c14/aakdfnppleih2/en_1d2a540q3j.png
I agree.

Should have costed 4 mana. Recurring countered/destroyed equipment is a nice touch, but she's too expensive for what she does.

[Quizzlemanizzle]

her ultimate is a joke for -10

folds to a simple card like Void Snare or any exile permanent/artifact. Even at -5 it would be meh.

[Barook]

her ultimate is a joke for -10

folds to a simple card like Void Snare or any exile permanent/artifact. Even at -5 it would be meh.
They obviously did cost the ultimates so high to prevent Doubling Season shenanigans.

A retarded design choice, if you ask me.

[apple713]

her ultimate is a joke for -10

folds to a simple card like Void Snare or any exile permanent/artifact. Even at -5 it would be meh.

yeah, they should have added a clause saying " if this equipment leaves the battlefield, instead return it to play"

[MGB]

Titania, Protector of Argoth seems like it will find a home somewhere in this format.

5/3 for 3GG is a bit fragile but that ability to basically turn fetchland activations into 5/3s is just sooo powerful.

[Quizzlemanizzle]

They obviously did cost the ultimates so high to prevent Doubling Season shenanigans.

A retarded design choice, if you ask me.

they already made the ultimates incredibly weak to support the "can be commander clause"..

[Quizzlemanizzle]

Titania, Protector of Argoth seems like it will find a home somewhere in this format.

5/3 for 3GG is a bit fragile but that ability to basically turn fetchland activations into 5/3s is just sooo powerful.

and also really slow, at 5 mana there is no chance for her even in green..

[Barook]

yeah, they should have added a clause saying " if this equipment leaves the battlefield, instead return it to play"
Or give it hexproof.

Her -2 isn't that great, either. Paying :3::w::w: to put an equipment just into play is pretty meh. Should have equipped it to a creature as well.

White has the most bland cards spoiled so far.

[apple713]

It is unreal how inconsistent the power levels of cards are. It's like they have a random card generator and then just assign mana costs....

This is arguably on the same power level of liliana and jtms. I am really happy that for once red is getting good cards, because for years they have been getting the shaft.. like 10 years....

http://i.imgur.com/tHH777m.jpg

[Rizso]

Thats a powerful red planeswalker. Quite cheap as well for its effect and splashable even.

[Gheizen64]

Nahiri sucks. Double white and 5cmc in a color without ramp, again just 3 starting loyalty and at 5 mana she seems considerably worse than 4cmc Elspeth

http://media.wizards.com/2014/c14/aakdfnppleih2/en_1d2a540q3j.png

Again, at 4 this would've been really playable in white decks a bit more heavy with equips. At 2WW, the ability to play a batterskull or recycle it, plus the ability to equip anything with the +2 is quite good but whatever.

[Barook]

It is unreal how inconsistent the power levels of cards are. It's like they have a random card generator and then just assign mana costs....

This is arguably on the same power level of liliana and jtms. I am really happy that for once red is getting good cards, because for years they have been getting the shaft.. like 10 years....
Looks like they took the promise about more consistent power/price level from last year after the TNN disaster and shat on it.

But JMTS/Liliana power level? Daretti is an interesting card, but let's get not ahead of ourselves here until he sees play in a proper shell.

[rufus]

It is unreal how inconsistent the power levels of cards are. It's like they have a random card generator and then just assign mana costs....

... And that's how chase rares are made.

[Bobmans]

Nahiri sucks. Double white and 5cmc in a color without ramp, again just 3 starting loyalty and at 5 mana she seems considerably worse than 4cmc Elspeth

http://media.wizards.com/2014/c14/aakdfnppleih2/en_1d2a540q3j.png
This planeswalker resembles Stoneforge Mystic suspiciously much.

[Barook]

This planeswalker resembles Stoneforge Mystic suspiciously much.
Probably the same profession or a depiction of her as a non-legendary card for whatever reason.

[(nameless one)]

Even if we concede that Welder is better than this guy (highly debatable), you can run both in a deck, so, even if this is Welder 5-8 or whatever, that's still pretty good.

The fact that this guy only costs 1 Red is massive. A CMC of 4 is in that rarefied air for Planeswalkers and unfortunately, like Dack, this guy doesn't have an ability to really protect himself. I think this makes it a close but not quite for Legacy, but I think he will be playable in Vintage.

I beg to differ. He can reanimate artifacts if you have to. There are creature artifacts. Even a timely Tangle Wire can protect this guy. As an old school MUD guy, imagine the interaction with Tangle Wire!

[H]

I've really been trying to figure out how to get Tangle Wire to work in Legacy. Having played a lot of Vintage, I know how effective the card can be versus decks with small board presence and many cantrips. Of course, Pyromancer is a foil to this, but early Wires can be an overwhelming advantage when you can back it up with a threat.

[Ace/Homebrew]

She's pretty clearly a Kor.
So saying she looks suspiciously like SFM is like saying Ashling the Pilgrim looks suspiciously like Flamekin Bladewhirl, Flamekin Brawler, or Flamekin Harbinger.

Or perhaps Kor Sanctifiers, Kor Spiritdancer, and Kor Hookmaster were all based on a card Wizards had no idea would become a Legacy staple...
Or maybe they are all just Kor. :rolleyes:



Nahiri is actually designed quite well despite the unrealistic expectations of many.
She protects herself with +2. She can recover destroyed equipment, which is card advantage. Her ultimate is actually very powerful when viewed in the correct context (meaning she wasn't intended to be a Legacy staple).

She comes out turn 5. She +2's for 4 turns. On turn 10 (which is when the Rules Committee feels it is time to start trying to win a game of EDH) she dumps out an equipment that basically helps you win in a turn or two.

[Gheizen64]

MUD in legacy is unplayable however, the mana is impossible, and with bolts everywhere, metalworker isn't reliable either. You spend half of your games cursing your lands. Legacy MUD need a good sol land for artifact aside from Tomb.

[TsumiBand]

A Blood Moon/Trinisphere + Tangle Wire lockout with Daretti sounds like fun to play, sure

[DLifshitz]

Probably the same profession or a depiction of her as a non-legendary card for whatever reason.

Possibly they had an artwork lying around and decided to use it.

I imagine this is also why the unstoppable and nigh-indestructible True-Name Nemesis is a fish guy with a knife.

[rufus]

A Blood Moon/Trinisphere + Tangle Wire lockout with Daretti sounds like fun to play, sure

So the game plan is primarily just run the +2 to find another threat, and ignore the other two abilities. Seems solid.

[joven]

[...]

My only sads is that they didn't stick with the 'old walkers' theme - it would have been an entirely different card if it'd been Jaya, but god damn did I want it to be Jaya pretty badly. I was even willing to endure some stupid "well see, Ob-Nix is secretly an old walker because" bilge from the mothership. But nah, we have two olds and two news, makes me far less hopeful about the White one being Serra :/

[...]

Serra would have been interesting. Although I'm not sure if Serra is really a person.
A white planeswalker for Angel concerns could be nice. :D



Probably the same profession or a depiction of her as a non-legendary card for whatever reason.

Probably in disguise as an ordinary kor. ;)
I definitely think SFM is the Lithomancer, even the clothes and accessories look almost the same!

Well, the print in Commander 2014 makes it almost sure the Lithomancer won't enter the story of the Tarkir block. Sad.

[Ace/Homebrew]

So the game plan is primarily just run the +2 to find another threat, and ignore the other two abilities. Seems solid.
Are you suggesting that he try to build a deck around Daretti's -10 ability? The internet doesn't provide context. "Seems solid" feels sarcastic...

[apple713]

Looks like they took the promise about more consistent power/price level from last year after the TNN disaster and shat on it.

But JMTS/Liliana power level? Daretti is an interesting card, but let's get not ahead of ourselves here until he sees play in a proper shell.

so far red is the only color that got any usable legacy cards AND it got multiple. maybe malicious affliction will see some play.

Daretti is different that JTMS/Liliana in the sense that he doesn't just go into every red deck, but the level of power he exhibits is defiantly on that level.

+2 faithless looting
-2 goblin welder
-10 really hard to loose...

The one problem with goblin welder is that it dies to everything, This does not.

Additionally, when used in conjunction with goblin welder, it creates consistency welder decks never had before.

when used with blue, you have access to dack fayden and transmute artifact that further support him

with such redundancy, multiple effects doing similar things, you can focus your strategy, and cards like liquimetal coating become ABSURD!

At this point with the above mentioned cards, you are now cycling through your deck, stealing you opponents permanents, reanimating amazing artifacts, and if opponent has an artifact in his grave you can effectively destroy the permanents.

So maybe its not that in a vacuum he's amazing, but he is the key to a new deck that has incredibly high potential to be amazing. examples of when decks become amazing are show and tell and sneak attack. when just 1 of them was used the deck was not consistent enough, but together both of them abusing big creatures, it is.

I call this the rule of 8. when you have 2 cards that both do very powerful things along the same lines, consistency can be established and a deck can then be formed. Without 8 cards in the deck, the odds of getting them are low enough that consistency becomes an issue.


if you are interested in discussing this more, i'll be posting in the forums under "new and developmental" to spur discussion of deck lists and such

[MGB]

MUD in legacy is unplayable however, the mana is impossible, and with bolts everywhere, metalworker isn't reliable either. You spend half of your games cursing your lands. Legacy MUD need a good sol land for artifact aside from Tomb.

Legacy MUD is very playable. The problem with MUD and every Tomb/City deck has always been inconsistency. It can blow you out with an early Chalice or a Trinisphere, or it can struggle to hit relevant cards.

The issue is not mana as much as card filtering and draw. This guy alleviates the problem somewhat by acting as a draw engine himself that also fills the graveyard for future shenanigans.

I'm of the opinion that a Planeswalker like this might just be enough to push MUD over the top if the right build emerges.

[Barook]

She comes out turn 5. She +2's for 4 turns. On turn 10 (which is when the Rules Committee feels it is time to start trying to win a game of EDH) she dumps out an equipment that basically helps you win in a turn or two.
Or they just exile/bounce/let you sac said "awesome" equipment token and you wasted tons of time for nothing.

The Ult would have been much cooler if it vomited out equipment from the library while reducing their equip cost to :0: until EoT.


Although I'm not sure if Serra is really a person.
Really? :eyebrow:

She's depicted on various cards, e.g. Humble or Congregate.

[Ace/Homebrew]

Or they just exile/bounce/let you sac said "awesome" equipment token and you wasted tons of time for nothing.

Shit! You're right... I forgot "dies to removal" means you shouldn't use a card.
Forget everything I said about her, I have no idea what I'm talking about.

[bruizar]

So the game plan is primarily just run the +2 to find another threat, and ignore the other two abilities. Seems solid.

Read the discussion in the mud thread
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?23388-Deck-MUD-(Metalworker)/page104

You can actually ultimate with Tangle Wire and Contagion Engine

[Barook]

Shit! You're right... I forgot "dies to removal" means you shouldn't use a card.
Forget everything I said about her, I have no idea what I'm talking about.
No, it means that your huge time investment has a good chance of doing jackshit, especially when your opponent has several turns to prepare for it.

Point is that it's a rather underwhelming ultimate for its cost.

[rufus]

... The internet doesn't provide context. "Seems solid" feels sarcastic...

Can I take ambiguously ironic? I think that if you can get it on the table, "lock and loot" in dragon stompy shells will probably win games, but that it's a little strange to be (effectively) ignoring both of the 'minus' abilities on the planeswalker.

[Cire]

so far red is the only color that got any usable legacy cards AND it got multiple. maybe malicious affliction will see some play.

Daretti is different that JTMS/Liliana in the sense that he doesn't just go into every red deck, but the level of power he exhibits is defiantly on that level.

+2 faithless looting
-2 goblin welder
-10 really hard to loose...

The one problem with goblin welder is that it dies to everything, This does not.

Additionally, when used in conjunction with goblin welder, it creates consistency welder decks never had before.

when used with blue, you have access to dack fayden and transmute artifact that further support him

with such redundancy, multiple effects doing similar things, you can focus your strategy, and cards like liquimetal coating become ABSURD!

At this point with the above mentioned cards, you are now cycling through your deck, stealing you opponents permanents, reanimating amazing artifacts, and if opponent has an artifact in his grave you can effectively destroy the permanents.

So maybe its not that in a vacuum he's amazing, but he is the key to a new deck that has incredibly high potential to be amazing. examples of when decks become amazing are show and tell and sneak attack. when just 1 of them was used the deck was not consistent enough, but together both of them abusing big creatures, it is.

I call this the rule of 8. when you have 2 cards that both do very powerful things along the same lines, consistency can be established and a deck can then be formed. Without 8 cards in the deck, the odds of getting them are low enough that consistency becomes an issue.


if you are interested in discussing this more, i'll be posting in the forums under "new and developmental" to spur discussion of deck lists and such

Well I love coming up with decklists out of the blue. . . . how would this look like?

4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
8 Fetch Land
4 Volcanic Island
2 Mountain
2 Island

4 Mox Diamond
4 Treasure Cruise

4 Goblin Welder
4 Daretti
4 Dack fayden

2 Wurmcoil Engine
3 Liquid Metal Coating
3 Sundering Titan
4 Trinisphere
4 Chalice of the Void

Would TC even be good in this? Probably not now that I think about it. . . .

[Ace/Homebrew]

Can I take ambiguously ironic?
I'll allow it. :tongue:


No, it means that your huge time investment has a good chance of doing jackshit.
You still have 4 1/1's with whatever equipment you cast attached to them for free.

Indestructible limits the type of removal you can use.
Equipment limits the colors which can meaningfully interact with it.

Sure Blue can bounce it, but why wouldn't they bounce the planeswalker when it reached 9 loyalty instead?
Commander Eesha gets to be a 7/9 Flying, Doublestriker with Protection from Creatures. "Seems solid."

But it doesn't say "-10: You win the game last turn." so yeah... I guess they could have made it better. :rolleyes:


Edit - Ahh Shit! Commander Eesha dies to removal... Forget everything I said!

[Vicar in a tutu]

Well I love coming up with decklists out of the blue. . . . how would this look like?

4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
8 Fetch Land
4 Volcanic Island
2 Mountain
2 Island

4 Mox Diamond
4 Treasure Cruise

4 Goblin Welder
4 Daretti
4 Dack fayden

2 Wurmcoil Engine
3 Liquid Metal Coating
3 Sundering Titan
4 Trinisphere
4 Chalice of the Void

Would TC even be good in this? Probably not now that I think about it. . . .
This deck folds to Rest in Peace.

[AngryTroll]

I'd love to brew a deck with Goblin Welder, Dack Fayden, Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas, and Daretti. Baleful Strix and Thopter Foundry would even be on color.

[The Big Ragu]

I think Freyalise will make an excellent addition to Ezuri decks, even though she isn't nearly as good a general as he is. But I like the idea of periodically switching him out to use her once in awhile. Think I might experiment with an Ezuri/Freyalise tribal deck.

[apple713]

I'd love to brew a deck with Goblin Welder, Dack Fayden, Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas, and Daretti. Baleful Strix and Thopter Foundry would even be on color.


I have started a discussion for the deck and conceptual ideas here (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?28750-Daretti-Goblin-Welder-(Da-Welder))

[TsumiBand]

So the game plan is primarily just run the +2 to find another threat, and ignore the other two abilities. Seems solid.

OBVIOUSLY.

4x Daretti, Handi-capable
4x Trinisphere
4x Tangle Wire

48x Mountain

I mean I didn't want to pollute the thread with more decklists, but this shit is fucking gyroscopic, it writes itself.

[Star|Scream]

OBVIOUSLY.

4x Daretti, Handi-capable
4x Trinisphere
4x Tangle Wire

48x Mountain

I mean I didn't want to pollute the thread with more decklists, but this shit is fucking gyroscopic, it writes itself.

Perhaps 4 brainstorm to make the deck more consistent?

[Barook]

Edit: Why Nahiri looks like SFM explained (http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/101272254928/nahiri-is-fantastic-and-so-is-the-story-much-thanks#notes)


I'll allow it. :tongue:


You still have 4 1/1's with whatever equipment you cast attached to them for free.

Indestructible limits the type of removal you can use.
Equipment limits the colors which can meaningfully interact with it.

Sure Blue can bounce it, but why wouldn't they bounce the planeswalker when it reached 9 loyalty instead?
Commander Eesha gets to be a 7/9 Flying, Doublestriker with Protection from Creatures. "Seems solid."

But it doesn't say "-10: You win the game last turn." so yeah... I guess they could have made it better. :rolleyes:


Edit - Ahh Shit! Commander Eesha dies to removal... Forget everything I said!
I speak from a Legacy perspective because I give two shits about EDH.

[Ace/Homebrew]

Why Nahiri looks like SFM explained (http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/101272254928/nahiri-is-fantastic-and-so-is-the-story-much-thanks#notes)
Thanks for sharing! Interesting how they ret-con'd SFM. :smile:


I speak from a Legacy perspective because I give two shits about EDH.
I was very clearly analyzing her based on the format she was designed for. You probably should have ignored the comments I made about the format you give shits about rather than argue with me and dismiss everything because 'whatever, I don't care'.

[TsumiBand]

I don't know if it's a retcon so much as a "look, *this* stoneforge mystic had a spark"

Like I've typically understood non-legendary permanents to be "un-unique" in that they are just sort of everywhere. It isn't like it's the same Grizzly Bear every time, right -- there's bunches of them across so many planes. So SFMs are roughly like "overworked taxi driver"; most of them don't really matter and are likely highly interchangeable, but once in a while you get a Korben Dallas.

[Ace/Homebrew]

I don't know if it's a retcon so much as a "look, *this* stoneforge mystic had a spark".
Worldwake is known for 2 cards: Stoneforge Mystic and Jace, the Mind Sculptor.
My understanding was Wizards knew they could be pushing the envelope with Jace, but SFM being a powerhouse was a surprise. I am not quoting anything because I can't. If I'm wrong, I'm happy for someone to show me the light! :smile:

Worldwake came out in February of 2010... About 4 and a half years ago. It is extremely possible that Nahiri had a name and a look at that point and they were slow rolling the whole thing. To me it makes more sense that 'the Lithomancer' was all they had truly decided on because that character hasn't been relevant until they started building the story towards a return to Zendikar.

Once they started building the story for 'the return', they took a look back at what defined Zendikar/Worldwake the first time around. SFM was something they could work with. They designed Nahiri to look like SFM and now they are saying SFM was always an homage to Nahiri. Hence retcon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retroactive_continuity).


Nahiri was part of a tradition of kor stoneforgers — powerful mages who forge weapons from stone — and that tradition still exists on Zendikar today (which we know as the card Stoneforge Mystic). Nahiri’s (awesome) art by Eric Deschamps was definitely modeled on the art of Worldwake’s Stoneforge Mystic.

Now the community can go "ZOMG! They planned that all along!!1!!1"
It's the same thing they did with Ugin and Nicol Bolas. They write the future with the past in mind so it looks like they had planned the future the whole time.


There are various motivations for retconning. The changes may occur to accommodate sequels or derivative works, allowing newer authors or creators to revise the diegetic (in-story) history to include a course of events that would not have been possible in the story's original continuity. Retcons allow for authors to reintroduce popular characters and resolve errors in chronology.

That sounds like what they did here.

[joven]

Worldwake is known for 2 cards: Stoneforge Mystic and Jace, the Mind Sculptor.
My understanding was Wizards knew they could be pushing the envelope with Jace, but SFM being a powerhouse was a surprise. [...]


Well, SFM would be much less of a powerhouse without Batterskull. I still find those living weapons stupid flavorwise.

[LIKEABOSS]

This deck folds to Rest in Peace.

So does dredge and reanimator.
I feel like Nahiri could see play in soldier stompy, but that deck isn't that great anyway.

[Lord Seth]

Worldwake is known for 2 cards: Stoneforge Mystic and Jace, the Mind Sculptor.
My understanding was Wizards knew they could be pushing the envelope with Jace, but SFM being a powerhouse was a surprise. I am not quoting anything because I can't. If I'm wrong, I'm happy for someone to show me the light! :smile:Some information about what went into their development can be found here (http://archive.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/feature/148) in the article explaining the rationale for their bannings in Standard. If you want to just get to the part about their development process, skip down to the "How Did These Cards Get Through Development?" part.

[apple713]

Some information about what went into their development can be found here (http://archive.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/feature/148) in the article explaining the rationale for their bannings in Standard. If you want to just get to the part about their development process, skip down to the "How Did These Cards Get Through Development?" part.

"Game play like that is a far cry from past Standard environments containing ban-worthy cards, wherein you might get decked by a Tolarian Academy–fueled Stroke of Genius on turn three, or die from 20 on turn four to a combination of Arcbound Ravager, Disciple of the Vault, and Cranial Plating, both frequently at the hands of less proficient players. Those games felt more random and less satisfying, and the outcry to do something about it was loud and clear."

so as long as bad players don't win frequently with good cards, the cards shouldn't be banned...

[(nameless one)]

Will this set be legal by GP Brainstorm?

[thecrav]

Will this set be legal by GP Brainstorm?

Yes. It's a good thing most of this stuff doesn't look too good!

[(nameless one)]

Yes. It's a good thing most of this stuff doesn't look too good!

I feel like the Red planeswalker could make a splash.

[Barook]

http://puremtgo.com/sites/default/files/u2206/master.jpg

Hard to say which deck wants to run multiplie copies of the same equip, Batterskull notwithstanding.

[bruizar]

http://puremtgo.com/sites/default/files/u2206/master.jpg

Hard to say which deck wants to run multiplie copies of the same equip, Batterskull notwithstanding.

That one will probably end up in the white commander deck. Too bad it's not legal in the format where equipment storm is played. Also, pretty much a flavor fail imo. Since when is copying regarded as ingenuity? Tim Cook & Jony Ive would be displeased.

[Vicar in a tutu]

So does dredge and reanimator.
I feel like Nahiri could see play in soldier stompy, but that deck isn't that great anyway.
Reanimator has the option of countering Rest in Peace, or just ignore it and use Show and Tell to power out Grizzy. I feel it's important that extremely graveyard-dependant decks have a back-up plan in case of hate. If they don't, I feel that the deck isn't viable.

[lyracian]

That one will probably end up in the white commander deck. Too bad it's not legal in the format where equipment storm is played. Also, pretty much a flavor fail imo. Since when is copying regarded as ingenuity? Tim Cook & Jony Ive would be displeased.
It might be a sideboard answer to Batterskull
BU Tezz could play it....

Main problem is it really being a do nothing card without equipment already in play.

[Quizzlemanizzle]

That one will probably end up in the white commander deck. Too bad it's not legal in the format where equipment storm is played. Also, pretty much a flavor fail imo. Since when is copying regarded as ingenuity? Tim Cook & Jony Ive would be displeased.

Decks that run Trinket Mage (and Stoneforge Mystic) could run this.

[bruizar]

Decks that run Trinket Mage (and Stoneforge Mystic) could run this.

Great catch both. Also brings Artificer's Intuition one step closer to living up to its promise of being an artifact SOTF.

[Bobmans]

UW Stoneforge Trinket Mage Dreadnought Stifle.dec
Basilisk Collar?
I get tons of idea's right now, lol.

[Quizzlemanizzle]

I will buy 4 of the red decks for sure

Daretti
Wurmcoil Engine
Dualcaster Mage
Bitter Feud
Scrap Mastery

I estimate that Daretti, Wurmcoil Engine and Dualcaster Mage are longterm 10$+ cards though Wurmcoil might need a long time to recover from this reprint.

[TsumiBand]

Weird that it's an equipment without an equip cost :/ I mean I get it, but it is useless on its own, even for incidental bonuses (like "this bad Cat Warrior gets +2/+2 for each Equipment attached to it" or whatever lousy thing no one is playing anyway)

I want to like it, but seeing as how it needs to have something to copy and it isn't as variable as something like Sculpting Steel (which I don't think sees any Legacy play? I don't think) I question its usefulness. It'll be a bit win-more-ish, I think - I mean if it were important to have multiple copies of good Equipment cards, wouldn't your average SFM shell already carry multiples? It similarly 'cheats' copies into play (causing them to cost :1::w: instead of :1: as this card does) but most lists are content to have just one instance of each relevant Equipment.

The Trinket Mage thing is maybe a good idea, but then it kind of begs the question as to why you don't just run SFM yourself (imo).

[Quizzlemanizzle]

Weird that it's an equipment without an equip cost :/ I mean I get it, but it is useless on its own, even for incidental bonuses (like "this bad Cat Warrior gets +2/+2 for each Equipment attached to it" or whatever lousy thing no one is playing anyway)

I want to like it, but seeing as how it needs to have something to copy and it isn't as variable as something like Sculpting Steel (which I don't think sees any Legacy play? I don't think) I question its usefulness. It'll be a bit win-more-ish, I think - I mean if it were important to have multiple copies of good Equipment cards, wouldn't your average SFM shell already carry multiples? It similarly 'cheats' copies into play (causing them to cost :1::w: instead of :1: as this card does) but most lists are content to have just one instance of each relevant Equipment.

The Trinket Mage thing is maybe a good idea, but then it kind of begs the question as to why you don't just run SFM yourself (imo).

Because SFM does not find Relic of Progenitus, Crypt, Chalice, Cage and so on..

[Gheizen64]

You want to play this alongside sfm, obviously. Like 4 Sfm, 4 trinket mages, this as a singleton, then maybe a sdt, EE, moxen, artifact land, and the usual suspect equips. Then dunno u lose the game ? Or go for some combo route with locket of tomorrows, bombermans etc...

[Quizzlemanizzle]

just have it in your sideboard when you run Trinket Mage and bullets.

It is pretty decent grab with Trinket Mage when you see the opponent plays xBlade. Copy that Batterskull.

[GenghisTom]

They better be including all the weird tokens with these commander decks. I hate having to use face down cards/dice etc for tokens.

Masterwork of Ingenuity could be a 1-of in some decks, mostly for copying Batterskull or opponents equipment. I don't see the strategy of trying to get out as many equipment as possible winning any games. Fine multiplayer card though.

[TsumiBand]

They better be including all the weird tokens with these commander decks. I hate having to use face down cards/dice etc for tokens.

There are images of Wurmcoil Engine tokens with the C14 expansion symbol, so it's logical to conclude that they'll be creating token cards/emblem cards for the relevant new items.

[TheArchitect]

One of the sets obviously meant for legacy cards was spoiled (in an article also containting the top 32 of Eternal Weekend (http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/pr/lasting-legacy-2014-10-30)):

http://media.wizards.com/2014/c14/aakdfnppleih2/en_oavp4obwx7.png

Its nothing too nuts, but might give D&T a 1-2 of to help fight UR and GBx decks, similar to how mirrian crusader or Brimaz are used now as 1-2 ofs to help certain matchups.


EDIT: Ben, I thought high tide when I saw that card as well, also misreading the card. It does still work with candelabra though, which if you have 2 out, is even better than untapping lands :)

[rufus]

http://media.wizards.com/2014/c14/aakdfnppleih2/en_p8imavql4m.png
High Tide - yay or nay?

Nay -- doesn't untap islands. Maybe in a UG Elf deck...

[rufus]

...
Its nothing too nuts, but might give D&T a 1-2 of to help fight UR and GBx decks, similar to how mirrian crusader or Brimaz are used now as 1-2 ofs to help certain matchups.

In principle, hallowed spiritkeeper is explosive in graveyard filling decks like dredge or oops all spells. Though I expect that those tend to have better options.

[Vicar in a tutu]

So, is this playable?
http://i.imgur.com/JswFB18.jpg

[Gheizen64]

It fucking sucks. The only thing it's semi decent against is delver where it's often an arc lightning instant for 1 less that can't hit players. You can never kill a goyf with it for example, and most other heavy hitters mean you're dead anyway (Grizzly, Emrakul).

[Sloshthedark]

so terrible I had to read it twice

[iamajellydonut]

so terrible I had to read it twice

The trick is to not read it at all. Then it can be anything you want.

[Zupponn]

If it could target players too, then it would be insane.

[iamajellydonut]

If it could target players too, then it would be insane.

"INSANE" is an overstatement. Useful? Sure. Flame Rift into Impact Resonance would be twelve damage to the dome at 4cc, but I'm pretty sure that's as good as it gets unless there's a Bargain effect that deals damage instead of sucking life.

[apple713]

Weird that it's an equipment without an equip cost :/ I mean I get it, but it is useless on its own, even for incidental bonuses (like "this bad Cat Warrior gets +2/+2 for each Equipment attached to it" or whatever lousy thing no one is playing anyway)

I want to like it, but seeing as how it needs to have something to copy and it isn't as variable as something like Sculpting Steel (which I don't think sees any Legacy play? I don't think) I question its usefulness. It'll be a bit win-more-ish, I think - I mean if it were important to have multiple copies of good Equipment cards, wouldn't your average SFM shell already carry multiples? It similarly 'cheats' copies into play (causing them to cost :1::w: instead of :1: as this card does) but most lists are content to have just one instance of each relevant Equipment.

The Trinket Mage thing is maybe a good idea, but then it kind of begs the question as to why you don't just run SFM yourself (imo).

so the reason Masterwork of Ingenuity is good is because you can't always just drop a bunch of batter skulls into play. But with masterwork you can.

T1 land mox -> SFM
T2 Sol land -> batterskull masterwork masterwork.

opponent is probably conceding after that unless he has a terminus on top.even if he does, bounce masterwork to hand, and replay for 1 mana... SFM is only necessary to get original into play.

[Barook]

so the reason Masterwork of Ingenuity is good is because you can't always just drop a bunch of batter skulls into play. But with masterwork you can.

T1 land mox -> SFM
T2 Sol land -> batterskull masterwork masterwork.

opponent is probably conceding after that unless he has a terminus on top.even if he does, bounce masterwork to hand, and replay for 1 mana... SFM is only necessary to get original into play.
So you're suggesting Batterskull Stompy where you spam Batterskulls? :confused:

[apple713]

So you're suggesting Batterskull Stompy where you spam Batterskulls? :confused:

its actually something being discussed on our thread (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?28750-Daretti-Goblin-Welder-(Da-Welder)&p=843763&viewfull=1#post843763)

[bruizar]

So you're suggesting Batterskull Stompy where you spam Batterskulls? :confused:

Worked for Godo MUD

[Zupponn]

"INSANE" is an overstatement. Useful? Sure. Flame Rift into Impact Resonance would be twelve damage to the dome at 4cc, but I'm pretty sure that's as good as it gets unless there's a Bargain effect that deals damage instead of sucking life.
I was thinking Price of Progress you for 8, then Impact Resonance you for another 8 would be really strong. Plus there would have been some game where someone takes a hit from Emrakul and then domes them for 15.

[iamajellydonut]

Plus there would have been some game where someone takes a hit from Emrakul and then domes them for 15.

Once you sac all your permanents (assuming you have less than eight), you'll have no mana to pay for Impact Resonance as you can't float mana between steps.

[Quizzlemanizzle]

If it could target players too, then it would be insane.

That would make it basically a buffed Berserk althought it does not work in Infect.

But attacking for a bunch with Tarmogoyf and then playing this to shoot a deathrite and 3 more in the face? yay..

[Barook]

http://media.wizards.com/2014/c14/aakdfnppleih2/en_j7p2zy504e.png

It only took them years to print this hatebear.

Sure, sucks with Aether Vial, but does alot of work against anything that wants to put creatures into play. Also makes creatures permanently go away in combination with Flickerwisp.

[Shawon]

Alright, gonna ask the question any rules-idiot is going to ask: what happens if your opponent resolves Show and Tell, with them playing Emrakul, the Aeons Torn and you play Containment Priest?

[Undomian]

Finally, the S&T hatebear we've all been waiting for. I realize that this has flash, but does it also interact favorably with being put in with S&T by exiling itself as well as your opponent's creature?

EDIT: Got ninja'd.

[Philipp2293]

Nice, so what does this hit? (sorry, just finished a hard week @ work and a bit brainfucked) Sneak Attack, Show and Tell, all Reanimaton, GSZ, Natural Order, Aether Vial, anything I'm missing?

[Meekrab]

Alright, gonna ask the question any rules-idiot is going to ask: what happens if your opponent resolves Show and Tell, with them playing Emrakul, the Aeons Torn and you play Containment Priest?
IIRC Show and Tell'd stuff all enters play simultaneously so the Containment Priest ability isn't active when Cthulhu enters the battlefield.

[MGB]

So it hoses Dredge and Show strategies. Not bad for Death n Taxes decks as a sideboard or even maindeck option.

[Shawon]

UHHHHH Hmmm, just thought of this.

If you flash this in response to Natural Order slash Green Sun's Zenith against Elves, since Containment Priest's exile clause is a replacement effect, will Craterhoof Behemoth being searched for not only exile itself, but since the replacement effect prevents it from entering the battlefield, does that mean Choof's ETB never triggers?

[Norm]

http://media.wizards.com/2014/c14/aakdfnppleih2/en_j7p2zy504e.png

It only took them years to print this hatebear.

Sure, sucks with Aether Vial, but does alot of work against anything that wants to put creatures into play. Also makes creatures permanently go away in combination with Flickerwisp.

That card does a whole lot of work. I wouldn't be surprised to see it in boards from UWR/Miracles/DNT(main?) and others at the GP

[Gheizen64]

Full commander list was spoiled, we got an anti-reanimate/SnT/Oath 1W 2/2 creature with flash. SB i guess.
Red list has Welder, Flametongue Kavu, Daretti, Dualcaster, Faithless looting etc... it's total value.

Also volcanic offering is insane. It's 4R for destroy 2 nonbasic lands and 2 creatures you don't control. Sure you choose only 1 target of the two, but still, it's like a one-sided wildfire for 4R.

Then Green got a 2G enchant permanent that transform the enchanted permanent in a forest.

Solemn simulacrum and all medallion got reprinted. Not sure they hold any value. SKullclamp got reprinted. Spine of Ish Sah, Myr Battlesphere, Wurmcoil Engine, Steel Hellkite, Pentavus, Nevinyrral disk, Bosh, Bog, The Karoo cycle of lands all got reprinted too.

Red deck is best value imho.

[Barook]

Also volcanic offering is insane. It's 4R for destroy 2 nonbasic lands and 2 creatures you don't control. Sure you choose only 1 target of the two, but still, it's like a one-sided wildfire for 4R.
As I read it, they can target the same permanent you chose.

[MGB]

So what are the things that Containment Priest hoses in this format, exactly?

Sneak n Show:
- Show and Tell
- Sneak Attack

Dredge:
- Ichorid
- Narcomoeba

Reanimator:
- Reanimate
- Exhume
- Show and Tell
- Animate Dead

Elves:
- Green Sun's Zenith
- Natural Order

Vial Decks (Goblins, Death N Taxes):
- AEther Vial

BUG Shardless:
- Any creature that would be played off a Cascade trigger (Tarmogoyf/Dark Confidant coming into play after Shardless Agent)

Nic Fit:
- Chord of Calling (not played much but still)
- Birthing Pod (again, not seen often but in a handful of Nic Fit decks)

Anything significant I'm missing here?

[danyul]

JUDGE!

How does Containment Priest interact with Dryad Arbor? Both when fetched and when played as a land for the turn?

[Ace/Homebrew]

So what are the things that Containment Priest hoses in this format, exactly?

BUG Shardless:
- Any creature that would be played off a Cascade trigger (Tarmogoyf/Dark Confidant coming into play after Shardless Agent)
Cascade 'casts' the creature, so the hatebear doesn't stop it.

It feels like Wizards actually looked to print cards to help some of the format's problems this time around (instead of adding to them).

[Ziveeman]

JUDGE!

How does Containment Priest interact with Dryad Arbor? Both when fetched and when played as a land for the turn?

It'll exile it both times and also count as your land drop if played as a land (you just play it into exile).

Also, it doesn't stop Shardless Agent cascading into a creature (you are still casting the creature)

It also stops:
Goblin Welder grabbing creatures
Transmute Artifact grabbing creatures
Nether Shadow
Goblin Lackey

[MGB]

It'll exile it both times and also count as your land drop if played as a land (you just play it into exile).

Also, it doesn't stop Shardless Agent cascading into a creature (you are still casting the creature)

It also stops:
Goblin Welder grabbing creatures
Transmute Artifact grabbing creatures
Nether Shadow
Goblin Lackey

Wow, between stopping Lackey and VIal, this is a very effective anti-Goblins card for a mono white deck.

Too bad nobody plays Goblins anymore.

[Ace/Homebrew]

It also stops:
Goblin Lackey

Yeah, but it already stops Lackey by being a 2/2 with flash. :wink:

Not really relevant for Legacy... but it also stops Deadeye Navigator and other blink strategies right?

[ryO!]

So what are the things that Containment Priest hoses in this format, exactly?

BUG Shardless:
- Any creature that would be played off a Cascade trigger (Tarmogoyf/Dark Confidant coming into play after Shardless Agent)

Anything significant I'm missing here?


well cascade actually cast no ? you just don't pay the mana cost. or am i missing something ?

[apple713]

So what are the things that Containment Priest hoses in this format, exactly?

Sneak n Show:
- Show and Tell
- Sneak Attack

Dredge:
- Ichorid
- Narcomoeba

Reanimator:
- Reanimate
- Exhume
- Show and Tell
- Animate Dead

Elves:
- Green Sun's Zenith
- Natural Order

Vial Decks (Goblins, Death N Taxes):
- AEther Vial

BUG Shardless:
- Any creature that would be played off a Cascade trigger (Tarmogoyf/Dark Confidant coming into play after Shardless Agent)

Nic Fit:
- Chord of Calling (not played much but still)
- Birthing Pod (again, not seen often but in a handful of Nic Fit decks)

Anything significant I'm missing here?

OMG this card is amazing....keeps stuff fair and auto include in white stompy.

also hozes

welder
daretti
kuldotha forgemaster


new feldon evades it which is worth noting
also plays nice with batter skull

[Barook]

Somebody should make a deck with Priest and Astral Slide, just to troll people.

[Sylphnir]

Time for elves to play Summoner's Pact again!

also plays nice with batter skull
Wouldn't it vaporize the germ token? (all token for that matter)
Edit: nvm it has a nontoken clause I'm stupid.

[bruizar]

WOW I really dig Volcanic Offering

Volcanic Offering is my second favorite from the red deck

[apple713]

can someone link me to the spoiled lists?

[Sylphnir]

can someone link me to the spoiled lists?
[decklists] (http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/arcana/commander-2014-edition-decklists-2014-10-31)
[card gallery] (http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/en-day-1-2014-10-23)

[MGB]

Somebody should make a deck with Priest and Astral Slide, just to troll people.

WOW.

The return of Slide to the format?

[rufus]

So what are the things that Containment Priest hoses in this format, exactly?
...
Anything significant I'm missing here?

Does anyone still play:

Bloodghast
Dark Depths / Marit Lage
Vengevine
Demigod of Revenge
Flashback cards
Protean Hulk

[Richard Cheese]

Yeah, but it already stops Lackey by being a 2/2 with flash. :wink:

Not really relevant for Legacy... but it also stops Deadeye Navigator and other blink strategies right?

Does that mean it also turns Flickerwisp into permanent removal?

Edit: Also phasing becomes "exile"?

[Ace/Homebrew]

Does that mean it also turns Flickerwisp into permanent removal?
Seems good. :laugh:

It doesn't stop Dark Depths though. Marit Lage is a token.
Or 'Flashback' cause that is only on non-creatures... Did you mean Unearth? If so, yes it stops that.

[rufus]

Does that mean it also turns Flickerwisp into permanent removal?

Edit: Also phasing becomes "exile"?

Nope.


702.25
d The phasing event doesn’t actually cause a permanent to change zones or control, even
though it’s treated as though it’s not on the battlefield and not under its controller’s control
while it’s phased out.
...

[apple713]

Does anyone still play:

Bloodghast
Dark Depths / Marit Lage
Vengevine
Demigod of Revenge
Flashback cards
Protean Hulk

i play depths, maybe not any more... that matchup was hard enough


Does that mean it also turns Flickerwisp into permanent removal?

Edit: Also phasing becomes "exile"?

yes


WOW.

The return of Slide to the format?

very excited for this.


[decklists] (http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/arcana/commander-2014-edition-decklists-2014-10-31)
[card gallery] (http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/en-day-1-2014-10-23)

thanks

[rufus]

i play depths, maybe not any more... that matchup was hard enough
...

I forgot that depths is a token.

[Sylphnir]

*searching for new artwork*
Noticed Tornado Elemental, Wellwisher, Cathodion and the medallion/diamond cycles, what else?

[Richard Cheese]

Nope.

Aww yeah, Rainbow Efreet still the best creature in the format. I should have known that, since I already knew it didn't trigger any ETB effects.

Priest wouldn't exile itself if it came in off Vial or Flickerwisp would it?

[apple713]

I think the red commander deck gives the most value by a long shot, and although i like the containment priest, i don't think she'll be enough to give the white deck enough value to justify a purchase even with masterwork of ingenuity. The rest of the decks were a waste of card board.

red deck

dualcaster mage
welder
daretti
wurmcoil
volcanic offering
chaos warp

white deck

containment priest
masterwork of ingenuity

[GenghisTom]

*searching for new artwork*
Noticed Tornado Elemental, Wellwisher, Cathodion and the medallion/diamond cycles, what else?

Sylvan Safekeeper and Skullclamp look nice.
Sacred Mesa is also new art

[apple713]

*searching for new artwork*
Noticed Tornado Elemental, Wellwisher, Cathodion and the medallion/diamond cycles, what else?

skullclamp is sweet

[maharis]

Comeuppance seems insane if you can resolve it. I'm not sure exactly when you have to cast it to get max value but it wipes the UR player's whole army except for Swiftspear.

http://cdn.magicspoiler.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/Comeuppance-Commander-2014-Spoiler.png

[apple713]

Comeuppance seems insane if you can resolve it. I'm not sure exactly when you have to cast it to get max value but it wipes the UR player's whole army except for Swiftspear.

http://cdn.magicspoiler.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/Comeuppance-Commander-2014-Spoiler.png

so you are really happy with an instant wrath of god, at best...?

[maharis]

A one-sided wrath for the same cost as a normal one? Yes I'm very happy with that.

I don't know what decks are going to be able to resolve a 3W spell but if there is one it's a huge swing. It's great against spammy creature strategies like UR and Elves. Too bad it doesn't kill TNN.

[apple713]

A one-sided wrath for the same cost as a normal one? Yes I'm very happy with that.

I don't know what decks are going to be able to resolve a 3W spell but if there is one it's a huge swing. It's great against spammy creature strategies like UR and Elves. Too bad it doesn't kill TNN.

its only for attacking creatures though, so its unlikely to actually be a 1 sided wrath. failing to kill creatures like mom and DRS hurts.

It doesn't actually fit anywhere either... Counterbalance has terminus, and if D&T gets board jammed the opposing creatures arnt attacking into you.

[iamajellydonut]

I don't know what decks are going to be able to resolve a 3W spell but if there is one it's a huge swing.

There are so many cards that fall under this category.

This card is shitty. It doesn't kill creatures that don't attack, and it only Fogs ass-heavy creatures like Tarmogoyf.

[Sharpened]

But it's not an instant wrath. It only kills creatures that attack you that turn and only if they would deal lethal damage to you. 'Goyf? Nope. Critters used to generate mana? Nope.

4 mana conditional removal spells tend not to matter much.

[(nameless one)]

That card is awesome in EDH!

[iamajellydonut]

That card is awesome in EDH!

Thanks.

[AngryTroll]

Containment Priest is a great card. That is at least three very interesting cards Wizards managed to slip into the set. The red planeswalker, the red Fork Mage, and the white hate bear are all interesting without screaming "broken" or "awfully un-interactive"-I'd call that a win.

Containment Priest stops Vengevines from returning to play...can we please unban Survival of the Fittest now? Cards that currently see real play that hinder Survival include Deathrite Shaman, Abrupt Decay, Spell Pierce, Stifle, and Phyrexian Revoker, and in sideboards there are Containment Priest, Scavenging Ooze, Nihil Spellbombs, Pithing Needle, and Rest in Peace.

[Gheizen64]

Can an opponent choose the same target as you do for Volcanic Offering? In that case it seems a bit stupid. If he can't, the card is a one-sided wildfire pretty much lol, for 1 less mana. Not sure if it's playable, but it's certainly interesting, the closest thing we can get to balance i guess.

[rufus]

Can an opponent choose the same target as you do for Volcanic Offering? In that case it seems a bit stupid. If he can't, the card is a one-sided wildfire pretty much lol, for 1 less mana. Not sure if it's playable, but it's certainly interesting, the closest thing we can get to balance i guess.

I think so. That aspect of things is much more interesting in EDH.

[MaximumC]

Aww yeah, Rainbow Efreet still the best creature in the format. I should have known that, since I already knew it didn't trigger any ETB effects.

Priest wouldn't exile itself if it came in off Vial or Flickerwisp would it?

No, I don't believe so. Cards that modify how other cards enter the battlefield have to be there BEFORE the entering card tries to enter. If it's in exile when it tries to enter, its effect is not doing anything yet. Grafdigger's cage does a similar thing if it enters at the same time as other stuff from the yard.

Contrast such replacement effects with cards that have ETB triggers (Valakut); those triggers only check when it hits the battlefield, so it sees everything else hitting the battlefield with it.

[rufus]

No, I don't believe so. Cards that modify how other cards enter the battlefield have to be there BEFORE the entering card tries to enter. If it's in exile when it tries to enter, its effect is not doing anything yet. Grafdigger's cage does a similar thing if it enters at the same time as other stuff from the yard...

Cards that are phased out are still on the battlefield. "... Set phasing to 10 on the storm scale..."

[bruizar]

Man, tell me Volcanic Offering isn't a bad Smallpox. Red deserves an identity / good cards.

[bruizar]

Containment Priest is a great card. That is at least three very interesting cards Wizards managed to slip into the set. The red planeswalker, the red Fork Mage, and the white hate bear are all interesting without screaming "broken" or "awfully un-interactive"-I'd call that a win.

Containment Priest stops Vengevines from returning to play...can we please unban Survival of the Fittest now? Cards that currently see real play that hinder Survival include Deathrite Shaman, Abrupt Decay, Spell Pierce, Stifle, and Phyrexian Revoker, and in sideboards there are Containment Priest, Scavenging Ooze, Nihil Spellbombs, Pithing Needle, and Rest in Peace.

Best comment in a long time. We miss survival.

edit:
Survival would grab an answer, shoot containment priest, and still go off. Pithing Needle and Phyrexian Revoker are the only cards that effectively answer Survival, but it still needs to come off the list.

[AngryTroll]

Best comment in a long time. We miss survival.

edit:
Survival would grab an answer, shoot containment priest, and still go off. Pithing Needle and Phyrexian Revoker are the only cards that effectively answer Survival, but it still needs to come off the list.

The Priest can always be flashed in in response to the Vengevine triggers. That would be a beating. "Wow, that's quite the 1GGGGGGG investment...1W, nice Rootwalla and Memnite?"

I've always looked at Survival as a source of card advantage instead of as a combo engine. It's an awesome incremental card advantage engine, much better than Sylvan Library or Divining Top. As a combo engine, it's extremely expensive. As a source of long-term card advantage, grinding out a game by Survivaling up an Eternal Witness in response to Abrupt Decay seems reasonable. Having to break the Vengevine chain to get a Witness seems pretty bad.

[bruizar]

The Priest can always be flashed in in response to the Vengevine triggers. That would be a beating. "Wow, that's quite the 1GGGGGGG investment...1W, nice Rootwalla and Memnite?"

I've always looked at Survival as a source of card advantage instead of as a combo engine. It's an awesome incremental card advantage engine, much better than Sylvan Library or Divining Top. As a combo engine, it's extremely expensive. As a source of long-term card advantage, grinding out a game by Survivaling up an Eternal Witness in response to Abrupt Decay seems reasonable. Having to break the Vengevine chain to get a Witness seems pretty bad.


the loyal retainers emrakul anger build of patrick chapin was always betterr, but less popular. That deck used aether vial which is also nerfed by containment priest.

[Gheizen64]

I see survival as a sort of green treasure cruise, both needs a bit of initial investment, both can be attacked from several angles (grave removal, needle effects, ench removal, grafdigger effects for Surv, grave removal, spell copying, tax effects, anti-draw cards for TC), but both give the respective color a lot of inevitability if unanswered.

[Lord Seth]

Man, I like Containment Priest, but I wish it had been printed in a Standard set. That card would be really interesting in Modern...

[Dia_Bot]

Man, I like Containment Priest, but I wish it had been printed in a Standard set. That card would be really interesting in Modern...

Why? It doesn't do anything against twin..

[Lord Seth]

Why? It doesn't do anything against twin..Okay, I misread it initially (for some reason I thought it said token rather than nontoken...). However, the card does shut off Birthing Pod and Chord of Calling completely, as well as having some interesting interactions with Flickerwisp and Oblivion Ring.

[ahg113]

Heart containment priest. It feels like a much needed bone to help fair decks level the playing field. That said, who thinks it's really a $15 card. SCG charges a premium, especially since they're hosting the GP and if you buy the cards from them, you'll def have them for the tourney, but seriously? Just seems silly for a SB card.

The red dude, yeah maybe $15, but still seems over priced. Prolly just a straight scarcity issue.

[Koby]

I officially name Containment Priest to be known as Tupperware Mage, because he keeps shit locked up tight.

[Megadeus]

I think it isn't unreasonable to main deck containment priest. It hits a lot of stuff, and as a 2/2 with flash, he is alright in battle

[iamajellydonut]

I think it isn't unreasonable to main deck containment priest. It hits a lot of stuff, and as a 2/2 with flash, he is alright in battle

If White Sun's Zenith didn't suck, Containment Priest maindeck wouldn't be unreasonable. But a very large portion of the meta, pretty much every single deck in the DTB section other than Elves, gives not a single shit about Containment Priest.

I'm considering tossing a copy into the sideboard, but Ashcoat Bears doesn't make it mainboard.

[Dia_Bot]

Okay, I misread it initially (for some reason I thought it said token rather than nontoken...). However, the card does shut off Birthing Pod and Chord of Calling completely, as well as having some interesting interactions with Flickerwisp and Oblivion Ring.

You're right there. I guess it would have made a nice addition to GW hatebears if it would have been printed in a normal set.

[ahg113]

If White Sun's Zenith didn't suck, Containment Priest maindeck wouldn't be unreasonable. But a very large portion of the meta, pretty much every single deck in the DTB section other than Elves, gives not a single shit about Containment Priest.

I'm considering tossing a copy into the sideboard, but Ashcoat Bears doesn't make it mainboard.

Basically. Living the dream, you cast it off a Cavern of Souls, and already have a mom in play to protect it. Aside from that, it's still a 2/2 creature, not a beacon of durability. It's FANTASTIC, that it's a 2/2 instead of something with a 1 toughness butt. I'd be happy if it were 1/2, not like I'm looking to swing this fella on a crowded battlefield to get points of damage in.

I mean, it wrecks Manaless Dredge, one of the decks noted by wotc. As a Manaless Dredge player, big whoop. Sooo many things wreck Manaless Dredge, one more thing that's not as good as RIP, Cage, LotVoid, a million other options, earth not shattered.

Containment Priest $15 < Thalia, Gaurdian of Thraben $5

M'eh, there's a non-blue toy, guess everything else is elementary.

[CorwinB]

The red dude, yeah maybe $15, but still seems over priced. Prolly just a straight scarcity issue.

Just noticed that "scarcity" really looks like "Star City"... Funny, that. :tongue:

[Tokugawa]

Does that mean it also turns Flickerwisp into permanent removal?

Edit: Also phasing becomes "exile"?

DnT decks already have Mangara as "permanent removal" for years, but they play fewer and fewer copies of him now.

[Barook]

DnT decks already have Mangara as "permanent removal" for years, but they play fewer and fewer copies of him now.
Yeah, but Mangara is incredible slow and having 1 toughness isn't exactly an advantage in the current metagame, hence players cutting it.

[joven]

The Priest can always be flashed in in response to the Vengevine triggers. That would be a beating. "Wow, that's quite the 1GGGGGGG investment...1W, nice Rootwalla and Memnite?"

I've always looked at Survival as a source of card advantage instead of as a combo engine. It's an awesome incremental card advantage engine, much better than Sylvan Library or Divining Top. As a combo engine, it's extremely expensive. As a source of long-term card advantage, grinding out a game by Survivaling up an Eternal Witness in response to Abrupt Decay seems reasonable. Having to break the Vengevine chain to get a Witness seems pretty bad.

Well, I'd say the fact that Survival is both is probably part of why it is banned.

[Bobmans]

It pains me to see that people are so limited to just place Survival of the Fittest and freaking Vengevine as inseperable. Fuck Vengevine really. Ban that card and unban Survival of the Fittest. Bring back some of the old fun.

[Tylert]

If White Sun's Zenith didn't suck, Containment Priest maindeck wouldn't be unreasonable. But a very large portion of the meta, pretty much every single deck in the DTB section other than Elves, gives not a single shit about Containment Priest.

I'm considering tossing a copy into the sideboard, but Ashcoat Bears doesn't make it mainboard.

D&T is impacted by the card. Vial will send guys into exile instead of putting them into play :).

[Higgs]

I love the card for the fact that it hoses the unfair decks and the annoying fair weenie decks equally. I wouldn't mind popping two of these in my Miracles sideboard against the increasing number of Griselbrand decks and the ever present Vial decks (Goblins and D&T) which I find hard to play against.

[honz]

I imagine MUD vs death and taxes is the only time this will ever come up, but torpor orb shuts down contamination priest right?

[Shawon]

I imagine MUD vs death and taxes is the only time this will ever come up, but torpor orb shuts down contamination priest right?

That interaction will never come up because CP's ability is a replacement effect and static ability, not triggered ability. Triggered abilities typically start with "When(ever)..."

[apple713]

anyone seriously contemplating UW containment priest / astral slide ? seems like a decent possibility. deck can also run parallax wave too.

[Cire]

can someone explain how containment priest works with phasing? Thanks!

[Barook]

can someone explain how containment priest works with phasing? Thanks!
Short version: Cards with phasing never leave the battlefield, so they ignore the Priest.

[Rizso]

Kinda like Dualcaster Mage against cruises and digs.

[Richard Cheese]

can someone explain how containment priest works with phasing? Thanks!

702.25d The phasing event doesn’t actually cause a permanent to change zones or control, even
though it’s treated as though it’s not on the battlefield and not under its controller’s control
while it’s phased out. Zone-change triggers don’t trigger when a permanent phases in or out.
Counters remain on a permanent while it’s phased out. Effects that check a phased-in
permanent’s history won’t treat the phasing event as having caused the permanent to leave or
enter the battlefield or its controller’s control.

[TsumiBand]

can someone explain how containment priest works with phasing? Thanks!

Containment Priest will take care of the creature cards, Phasing will take care of the token creatures. Answers to everything!

[iamajellydonut]

It's pretty sad when the decks are selling for less than MSRP.

[apple713]

It's pretty sad when the decks are selling for less than MSRP.

what do you mean? SCG is selling the individual cards for less than MSRP?

[thecrav]

SCG has the Red and White ones for $45. The other three they're selling for MSRP.

[Jamaican Zombie Legend]

I'm surprised at all the people suckered into the hype around Dualcaster Mage (sold out @ $15 pre-sale price on SCG)...the card is nothing special.

It's Legacy applications are extremely limited. Fork-effects have never been particularly good, and paying :1: extra to get a 2/2 body simply isn't worth it outside of Magical Christmasland scenarios. Even in EDH it seems weak. I play mono-red and I don't see this card usurping Wild Richochet, Reiterate, or even Reverberate.

The card could have easily been a 2/1 for RR and been "fair"....but colors that aren't Awesome can't have good cards, so w/e.

[Darkenslight]

I'm surprised at all the people suckered into the hype around Dualcaster Mage (sold out @ $15 pre-sale price on SCG)...the card is nothing special.

It's Legacy applications are extremely limited. Fork-effects have never been particularly good, and paying :1: extra to get a 2/2 body simply isn't worth it outside of Magical Christmasland scenarios. Even in EDH it seems weak. I play mono-red and I don't see this card usurping Wild Richochet, Reiterate, or even Reverberate.

The card could have easily been a 2/1 for RR and been "fair"....but colors that aren't Awesome can't have good cards, so w/e.

In a Delver-heavy meta, I think you may be underestimating its power, especially with Treasure Cruise in the meta. And still, it has utility (although definitely less than Snapcaster).

[(nameless one)]

SCG has the Red and White ones for $45. The other three they're selling for MSRP.

Can't you buy these at Walmart and Target?

[UnsungHero]

Can't you buy these at Walmart and Target?

You certainly can, assuming they actually stay in stock. When the Commander 2013 ones were out, I never ever saw the deck with True Name Nemesis. Hopefully that isn't the case this time around.

[iamajellydonut]

Hopefully that isn't the case this time around.

I can guarantee you it won't be the case. These decks are awful.

[bruizar]

You're better off buying the singletons for legacy unless you really need stuff like wurmcoil engines. I canceled my preorder.

[(nameless one)]

You're better off buying the singletons for legacy unless you really need stuff like wurmcoil engines. I canceled my preorder.


I want at least one. I don't mind the Wurm tokens too

[Jamaican Zombie Legend]

In a Delver-heavy meta, I think you may be underestimating its power, especially with Treasure Cruise in the meta. And still, it has utility (although definitely less than Snapcaster).

I don't think I'm overestimating it.

First, let's assume Fork-effects are a good call in the meta. Is Dualcaster Mage necessarily a good choice versus Reverberate or Fork? Is a Grey Ogre, with Flash, really worth an extra colorless mana? The extra mana makes it harder to play around Daze and makes it even harder to "double-up" on spells you control/play. Considering that most decks that run Mountains in Legacy don't always hit four land drops, this is pretty significant. One could easily find Dualcaster a dead card where Reverberate/Fork are live.

Secondly, let's challenge the previous assumption that Fork-effects are good in the meta. The burning question is why Fork a Treasure Cruise when you can just Pyroblast or REB it? Both situations result in the players maintaining card parity, the difference being that the REB/Pyroblast player maintains tempo (R to counter a spell that cost U) while the Dualcaster pays 1R in excess for a Grey Ogre. That doesn't sound like a good deal to me. Both REB and Pyroblast can answer a whole bunch of spells/threats extremely efficiently, in play and on the stack. Dualcaster can't boast the same. And while REB/Pyroblast are dead against certain decks, the same can be said about Dualcaster...what's he gonna do against Elves, Storm, Enchantress, Dredge, etc?

He's only getting a ton of hype because of the blatant reference to Snapcaster...except that Snapcaster was far more competitively costed and more versatile. A 2/1 Flash for 1U is decent, Recoup cost 1R, and Snappy weighed in at...1U. It's zero surprise he was competitive when he was pushed so hard.

After the hype dies down, all the people who pre-ordered him for $15+ will be throwing him in the same junk-rare piles as Notion Thief, another card based on Magical Christmasland scenarios of drawing tons of cards off opponents.

[bruizar]

only place for dualcaster mage is when you use aether vial to get him out. So MAYBE Red & Taxes. If not there, I don't expect it to be played at all

[Bobmans]

It might also be a flex slot in red painter.

But i have been thinking about something like "red&taxes", but it overall seems weaker then DnT.
Grim lavamancer
Magus of the scroll
Eidolon of the great revel
Phrophetic flamespeaker
Revoker
Mindsparker
Dualcaster mage
Rabblemaster
Magus of the moon
Purphoros, god of the forge
Koth of the hammer
Chansra, pyromaster
Aethervial
Lightning bolt
REB/pyroblast
Blood moon

Something in these lines.

[Finn]

Bobman, I am fascinated with this angle. I have tried it in so many ways. So.many.ways.

The potential seems so great. But I can't seem to get it right, and I have shelved the idea. If you can figure it out, I will applaud you.

Oh, and Dualcaster Mage is crappy.

[phonics]

The thing is red doesnt have a versatile clock like stoneforge or an orb effect dork like thalia, and running r/w makes it hard to fit in wastes and ports.

[BBG|Scott-Spain]

It might also be a flex slot in red painter.

But i have been thinking about something like "red&taxes", but it overall seems weaker then DnT.
Grim lavamancer
Magus of the scroll
Eidolon of the great revel
Phrophetic flamespeaker
Revoker
Mindsparker
Dualcaster mage
Rabblemaster
Magus of the moon
Purphoros, god of the forge
Koth of the hammer
Chansra, pyromaster
Aethervial
Lightning bolt
REB/pyroblast
Blood moon

Something in these lines.

Is this really all this type of deck would have? There's got to be more options somewhere...

[TsumiBand]

Is this really all this type of deck would have? There's got to be more options somewhere...

Well, there are, but they're all White cards.

Really Red is a victim of Red in this circumstance; it relies too heavily on punisher stuff like Ash Zealot or Pyrostatic Pillar to try and get more burns in, but none of it actually stop the opponent from doing anything until their life total would be reduced to 0 or less. Meanwhile, White can actually limit players' mobility with guys like Aven Mindcensor or Thalia while still advancing with efficient creatures.

I think that if there were any merit to a Red and Taxes approach it would ultimately have to concede some deckspace to White; the problem then is, are there actually cards that are bad enough in D&T that warrant a splash, and if there are, does the deck does go "oops I'm Maverick again" or is it actually a legit splash like adding Red to the old Fish decks.

[Captain Hammer]

If you want to go for a disruptive red strategy, a Stompy/Stax/Sol Land shell that combines artifacts like Trinisphere,Tangle Wire and/or Lodestone Golem, Daretti, Blood Moon, Magus with the many LD options red has access to might be the route to go...

Wasteland
Volcanic Offering - taking out both an opponent's land and creature with just one card makes it worth considering.
Fulminator Mage
Stone Rain
Goblin Settler
Avalanche Riders

[Ace/Homebrew]

Hey, does anybody remember when Dualcaster Mage was going to see all sorts of Legacy play?
Reminds me of when Temporal Mastery destroyed the format...

[rufus]

Hey, does anybody remember when Dualcaster Mage was going to see all sorts of Legacy play?
Reminds me of when Temporal Mastery destroyed the format...

When Lion's Eye Diamond came out, people knew it was broken, but couldn't figure out how. Both of those will probably find their way into decks eventually.

[apple713]

When Lion's Eye Diamond came out, people knew it was broken, but couldn't figure out how. Both of those will probably find their way into decks eventually.

temporal mastery probably will not ever because it's exiled on use, so unless you plan do isochron scepter it or something to that effect its just bad. 1 extra turn doesn't help much in legacy if you have to fill ur deck with cards like that.

maybe dual caster but the best thing is twin flame right now and its too expensive to breach the legacy format

[Vicar in a tutu]

Hey, does anybody remember when Dualcaster Mage was going to see all sorts of Legacy play?
Reminds me of when Temporal Mastery destroyed the format...
Not sure how many insisted it was going to be a staple. But note how long before Thespian's Stage made an impact, despite being awesome with Dark Depths. People didn't really play it. Dualcaster is strong, I'm sure there will be a home for it sometime in the future.

[TsumiBand]

I don't think that its failure to breach in the six weeks since EDH14 came out is telling of anything, except maybe that Carsten Kotter is righter than I originally thought and more people just play Delver because more people just play it and don't have the balls to dick with the list unless they just can't afford different cards.

I'm still fairly certain that there are enough 0- and 1-cmc spells worth copying and getting a dude out of the deal to look into mono-Red brewing. It could be that the 3 cast is scaring people off but it needs to be taken into account against the rest of the putative spells in the deck; like, even something as shitty as Fireblast -> Dualcaster copies Fireblast, untap and swing is fairly sexy. Hell, let's see someone break Blazing Shoal; Fireblasts, Blazing Shoals, Flame Javelin because 4 damage for :r::r::r: is almost as cool as +6/+0 for free, right? Why aren't we all playing like 6x Reckless Abandon, can I ask because it's really been bugging me. There are enough efficient Red dudes that are non-Goblin that the old gold Goblin Grenade just may not cut it anymore. Shrapnel Blast and Galvanic Blast are fairly cheap, let's copy and paste those assholes onto the stack. Mono-brick Affinity Sligh; Oxidda Golem, I choose yoooooooooou

It's a romantic strategy, but that's offset by the fact that I just don't give a fuck.

God, I wish people around here actually still played Legacy just so I could umadbro my way to a Top 8. I may need to venture to Kansas City just for shits and googles.

[MaximumC]

I'm still a big believer in Dualcaster Mage. It's a very powerful effect and a very good card. The problem -- and I think everyone and their brother pointed this out at the time -- is that it's overcosted by 1 red mana. Now, perhaps the best way to look at it is that Snapcaster Mage is undercosted by 1 blue mana (see: Eternal Witness), but whatever. The point is that Mage got that extra mana, making it no longer a no-brainer easy include into lists.

Make no mistake, however, Dualcaster's time will come. I make no predictions about the size of the wave it will create, but it will create waves somewhere. A printing into Modern, for example, would do that. Another possibility would be a card, like Twinflame, that combos with Dualcaster but has more general utility.

[rufus]

...
I'm still fairly certain that there are enough 0- and 1-cmc spells worth copying and getting a dude out of the deal to look into mono-Red brewing. It could be that the 3 cast is scaring people off but it needs to be taken into account against the rest of the putative spells in the deck; like, even something as shitty as Fireblast -> Dualcaster copies Fireblast, untap and swing is fairly sexy. ...

In a deck where Dualcaster is good, Fork will be better unless that deck uses the fact that 'caster is a creature in a significant way, and fork effects just aren't seeing a lot of play these days. ...

Maybe there's a spot for him in some kind of UR draw-go control deck. Using his ability to copy an opponent's Treasure Cruise or even Brainstorm should be pretty strong.

[TsumiBand]

In a deck where Dualcaster is good, Fork will be better unless that deck uses the fact that 'caster is a creature in a significant way, and fork effects just aren't seeing a lot of play these days.

I can't help but disagree, on the basis that Fork isn't a creature. Fork cannot affect the board state on its own, whereas Dualcaster requires no target to be cast. Even if it serves the role of a 'functional Fog' to disallow the opponent to get in for lethal, it allows the Red player to be more discerning about where to throw the copy of the spell. There's too many differences between card types to say one is strictly better under all circumstances.