[Primer] Nic Feat. 8Post

[cherson]

Some new good tools to test:

Distended Mindbender

Eldritch Evolution

Assembling it to this list:


4 Veteran Explorer
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Matter Reshaper
3 Reality Smasher
4 Thought-Knot Seer
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Tireless Tracker
3 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Primeval Titan
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Swamp
1 Wastes
4 Llanowar Wastes
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Bayou
1 Phyrexian Tower
4 Forest
4 Eldrazi Temple
1 Karakas
1 Wood Elves
1 Thragtusk


Still didnt design which to cut, but I think with Evolution it could change a lot -less overcosted bombs - mostly some one-of and more 3-4 mana value creatures.

you basically play CGb right? you splash black for deed and cabal therapy. don't u miss abrupt decay in the main?
what abt the two drops in general or do u skip them due to vex ?

[benoasan]

I made few tests with Eldritch Evolution, I am not sure we want that card into our deck. A lot of time, like a diabolic intent, it's a really bad top deck. Furthermore, diabolic intent is better for me cause it's only 2 mana (T2 after veteran T1) and you can search for your non-creature sideboard at G2&G3.

If you want to play Eldritch evolution, I think that the best we can do is T2 reshapper (with eldrazi temple) and T3 Eldritch evolution into Sigarda (but we need to splash it without any white manabase...). You will never do Eldritch evolution into TKS for Primeval cause give a free draw is too bad. In addition, we must always be aware against any counterspell. That's why reshapper is probably the best sacrifice.

In your list, you can do Eldritch from reshapper to TKS or Smasher which is not so bad but not enough game breaker probably...

For the distended mindbender, I preordered 2 with Emrakul v2.0 but I really don't know what to think about this card... The problem is it two black manas. It's easier for us to play spell with only one black or two green. If we want to play this card, we probably have to increase the number of reshapper from 3 to 4 cause it's the best card for emerge cost (distended will be 4 mana so just the turn after reshapper). Another question is: do we have a lot of target for a ccm>4 discard in the meta?

Anyway, if you test Eldritch & Distended I would be glad to have return!

[Fatal]

@Benoasan @cherson

List is far from optimal it's my starting point, Decay's are probably must in, I assamble few lists with Evolution and found it's not bad but only as 2-of and build around 1-ofs.

Distended - cut after few games (need diffrent build), it's overcosted vs what it do in normal cost, with not enough body around - could be good with build around it. For example if you have 4 cmc thread on table which gives you value after it dies - for example with Solemns. Ability to discard cmc > 4 is good - you discard Fows, so basically you will have for 3 mana (1BB) double discard with 5/5 body.

After some testing I came to conculsions that Evolution & Distended require diffrent deck, more midrange / aggro (more like Eldrazi, but not stompy), then combo / control (actual shape of this deck).

I tried to jam some proper build for those cards, ended with this:
1 Primeval Titan
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Veteran Explorer
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Bayou
3 Forest
1 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Eye of Ugin
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Wastes
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
1 Wolfir Silverheart
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Llanowar Wastes
3 Matter Reshaper
3 Eldritch Evolution - 1 of could be Fat Discard Eldrazi
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Savannah
1 Tireless Tracker
1 Thragtusk
1 Scavenging Ooze
3 Mox Diamond
1 Sea Gate Wreckage
SB: 1 Glacial Chasm
SB: 1 Bojuka Bog
SB: 4 Crop Rotation
SB: 2 Duress
SB: 1 Thespian's Stage
SB: 1 Warping Wail
SB: 1 Gaddock Teeg
SB: 2 Thorn of Amethyst
SB: 2 Pernicious Deed

Removal is totally absent MD except for Ulamog. Added silverbullet for Evolution in sort of Wolfir Silverheart - a beast with Smasher or any other body. It's more like Eldrazi Stompy but more focused on longer game - better ending and more resilent, but worst start. Since Eldrazi Stompy has problems to beat Shardless BUG with Strix MD, this build should has better chances. More resilent to Moon effects - has answer under GSZ with basics around, but in price of lock elements.

[benoasan]

@Fatal

I cannot go out without removal, pernicious and decay gave me too much game!

I didn't know eldrazi had problem versus Shardless bug (don't have them in my local meta) and it's strange because with my reshapper, versus Tezz control, I have no problem to deal with stryx.

I am agree with your good analyze, distended and eldritch probably recquire different deck constructions and the first one want a deck around him.

So if we focus to Eldritch evolution, I think that the best is the jump from 3ccm to 5ccm. In that way, we need a lot of 3 ccm and a 5ccm tool box. I like silverheart (since he can transform a veteran into a 5/5 bullet) but this guy need 2 creatures on the board if you want to play and value him with Eldritch evolution.

From 3 ccm, we must perform some CA from Eldritch so probably good drop will be first 4 reshapper (it's T2 with eldrazi temple) and maybe some wood elves / nissa wastvood / Kitchen Finks (and maybe other 3 ccm CA card). With 3 Eldritch, you probably recquire only one copy of some 5 ccm: smasher/thragcorne/sigarda/silverheart/acidic slime (and probably other...). In addition, maybe we can have one 7 ccm if we increase the eldritch evolution number?

[cherson]

@Fatal

I cannot go out without removal, pernicious and decay gave me too much game!


couldn't agree more. I play sfm nic fit as well and tbh I miss PtE in the fitdrazi deck.
currently I play 3x deed, 3x decay and 1x pulse.
too often I find threats which I have to get rid of before I can even win.

concerning EE, nothing for this deck as u mentioned, agree as well.

[Monglian]

Hey guys ive been following this thread for some time and really find the deck interesting! any news or results lately?
Almost got benoasans list completed, cant wait to test it:)

[Fatal]

Since new set doesn't bring too much also meta has warped quite a lot, I actually abandon this project until meta again became more Miracles centric.

[benoasan]

Hey guys ive been following this thread for some time and really find the deck interesting! any news or results lately?
Almost got benoasans list completed, cant wait to test it:)

Hey!

I am actually playing this:

1 [AVR] Cavern of Souls
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
1 [US] Phyrexian Tower
1 [UNH] Swamp
1 [] Wastes
3 [R] Bayou
4 [ROE] Eldrazi Temple
4 [UNH] Forest
4 [] Llanowar Wastes
4 [ZEN] Verdant Catacombs

1 [] Reality Smasher
1 [] Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 [M14] Scavenging Ooze
1 [M13] Thragtusk
1 [] Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
3 [] Matter Reshaper
3 [M12] Primeval Titan
4 [] Thought-Knot Seer
4 [CMD] Veteran Explorer

3 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
3 [] Pernicious Deed
3 [RTR] Abrupt Decay
4 [JU] Cabal Therapy
4 [MBS] Green Sun's Zenith
1 [] Diabolic Intent

SB: 2 [NPH] Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 [C13] Nihil Spellbomb
SB: 2 [RTR] Pithing Needle
SB: 3 [THS] Thoughtseize
SB: 1 [C13] Toxic Deluge
SB: 1 [CHK] Night of Souls' Betrayal
SB: 2 [M11] Obstinate Baloth
SB: 1 [LRW] Gaddock Teeg
SB: 1 [] Krosan Grip
SB: 1 [] Bane of Progress

The sideboard may look a little bit stange but my meta is also something like... strange!

The deck is still performing well. It's like a control deck with a very powerfull late game.

I still have problem versus combo deck that's why Gaddock appears in SB despite I have no white mana source... I also increase the numbre of TKS from 3 to 4.

Night of Souls' Betrayal is versus D&T & Grixis delver mainly (in my meta).

Bane of Progress is versus Enchanteress, Tezz ctl & Painter.

I really want to play the new Emrakul but I don't know what to remove.

I have tested recently garruk relentless, tireless tracker, meren but they are not enough powerfull.

If you have some advices & returns, I would be gratefull to take it.

[Fatal]

I would cut one Matter Reshaper - it's most time random to fetch a land from it.

[benoasan]

I would cut one Matter Reshaper - it's most time random to fetch a land from it.

And what would you add from?

I have sometimes the same question about reshaper. If I remove them, I have to change the manabase a little. Maybe test kruphyx courser, nissa vastwood and Emrakul 2.0!

But in other way, fetch a land from it is not bad cause our goal is going to prime titan.

[Fatal]

3 Matter Reshaper -instead 1 ramp (Wood Elves/Solemn), 1 Titan, 1 Emrakul 2.0. On the other hand, with Eldrazi Tample it's still a turn 2 drop which can be nice - not sure is it worth. Tests needed here.

[benoasan]

3 Matter Reshaper -instead 1 ramp (Wood Elves/Solemn), 1 Titan, 1 Emrakul 2.0. On the other hand, with Eldrazi Tample it's still a turn 2 drop which can be nice - not sure is it worth. Tests needed here.

Yes, in my game, a T2 Reshaper appears often. In addition, reshapper is a target for cabal & diabolic intent.

Actually, I am thinking about remove one land (from 24 to 23) cause I have sometime the problem of a full land drop. Maybe remove the cavern of souls...

#Fatal: Do you like your new Eldrazi & taxes deck?

[Fatal]

Yea I found it's very versatile - it has good Combo & Creature midrange matchup, which is quite unique. Explosive start connected with steamroll midgame is very strong combination. It's not so sensitive for Moon effects (a lot of basics) which was defect or Eldrazi Stompy. It's compete with D&T slot in metagame, time will show does new Recruiter gives edge over new eldrazi deck.

[benoasan]

New toy for us?

http://www.magic-ville.com/pics/big/kldFR/172.jpg

Otherwise I am working on a new list with one Eldritch evolution and a white splash (for SB because combo is horrible matchup):

1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
1 [US] Phyrexian Tower
1 [R] Scrubland (For white splash ; I remove cavern of souls)
1 [UNH] Swamp
1 [] Wastes
3 [R] Bayou
4 [ROE] Eldrazi Temple
4 [UNH] Forest
4 [] Llanowar Wastes
4 [ZEN] Verdant Catacombs

1 [] Reality Smasher
1 [] Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 [M14] Scavenging Ooze
1 [M13] Thragtusk
1 [] Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
3 [] Matter Reshaper
3 [M12] Primeval Titan (One could be Verdurous Gearhulk)
4 [] Thought-Knot Seer
4 [CMD] Veteran Explorer

3 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
3 [] Pernicious Deed
3 [RTR] Abrupt Decay
1 [] Eldritch Evolution
4 [JU] Cabal Therapy
4 [MBS] Green Sun's Zenith

SB: 2 [NPH] Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 [C13] Nihil Spellbomb
SB: 2 [RTR] Pithing Needle
SB: 3 [THS] Thoughtseize
SB: 1 [BNG] Spirit of the Labyrinth
SB: 1 [C13] Toxic Deluge
SB: 1 [CHK] Night of Souls' Betrayal
SB: 2 [M11] Obstinate Baloth
SB: 1 [LRW] Gaddock Teeg
SB: 1 [] Krosan Grip

Not sure what is the best among Spirit of the labyrinth / Eidolon of rhetoric / Ethersworn Canonist? (thalia...)

I tried Eldritch evolution, it's very good. Can be use to grab white creature sideboard at G2&G3.

At G1, I used it to just trigger Veteran and grab Sakura (3 lands in one turn!), Scavenging ooze (depend of matchup) or Matter reshapper if no other cards are good.

From Matter reshapper, can be use to grab Smasher / Thragtusk (here maybe I have some questions about a verderous gearhulk MD...).

And from TKS, even it's not good to let your opponent draw a card, I use it to grab Prime titan cause this guy end the game!

In addition, cause I have now a white manasource, I am thinking about one Eldrazi displacer MD. This guy is very good and we have a lot of available mana to trigger it (and some nice interactions). But it's hard to find a room for it...

[benoasan]

Bring to hell for this topic, here is my current decklist (will test this sunday for the new french legacy season):

1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
1 [US] Phyrexian Tower
1 [R] Scrubland
1 [UNH] Swamp
1 [] Wastes
1 [] Windswept Heath
2 [R] Bayou
4 [ROE] Eldrazi Temple
4 [UNH] Forest
4 [] Llanowar Wastes
4 [ZEN] Verdant Catacombs

1 [] Reality Smasher
1 [] Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 [M14] Scavenging Ooze
1 [M13] Thragtusk
1 [] Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
3 [] Matter Reshaper
3 [M12] Primeval Titan
4 [] Thought-Knot Seer
4 [CMD] Veteran Explorer

1 [ISD] Garruk Relentless/Garruk, the Veil-Cursed

3 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
3 [] Pernicious Deed
3 [RTR] Abrupt Decay
4 [JU] Cabal Therapy
4 [MBS] Green Sun's Zenith

SB: 2 [THS] Thoughtseize
SB: 2 [ALA] Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 1 [C13] Toxic Deluge
SB: 1 [CHK] Night of Souls' Betrayal
SB: 2 [M11] Obstinate Baloth
SB: 1 [LRW] Gaddock Teeg
SB: 1 [] Krosan Grip
SB: 3 [M11] Leyline of the Void
SB: 1 [ARB] Maelstrom Pulse
SB: 1 [] Warping Wail

Some changes from the SB (3 Leyline) and addition of one Garruk MD for tests.

Monglian, did you test the deck?

[Fatal]

Interesting note - Deck get some success:
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/488937#online

Deck splash much more W for sideboard option, more over it runs 2 Crop Rotation, and instead of Deed use Toxic Deluge.

Can't understand why it uses so much white splash destroying stable mana base - White leyline, RIP (which blocks Vet to trigger :/), Canonist (why not thorn of Ametyst ?) can't understand it. Anyway it gets some success which is the point.

[cherson]

Interesting note - Deck get some success:
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/488937#online

Deck splash much more W for sideboard option, more over it runs 2 Crop Rotation, and instead of Deed use Toxic Deluge.

Can't understand why it uses so much white splash destroying stable mana base - White leyline, RIP (which blocks Vet to trigger :/), Canonist (why not thorn of Ametyst ?) can't understand it. Anyway it gets some success which is the point.

if I am not mistaken the guy is on twitch and the whole tournament is online as well.
I looked into it and seems quite solid. I think one game he had issues because of the rip/vet trigger.
miracles looks like an easy match up but the whole deck struggles against tempo, for example UR delver etc..

[Ehhh]

nice I didn't know this thread existed, yes I stream on Twitch.tv/ehhhhhhh - testing for 2 Legacy GPs next year (early January and June) the deck is great - white sideboard options are way better than most in this format, against storm you need leylines and against graveyard decks like any loam or dredge deck is important (veteran interaction isn't that big of a deal) I bring RIP also against the tarmogoyf decks also not as important vs deathrite since I added Scavenging Ooze MB. The UR tempo decks are a problem but not the worst anymore .. I think Cabal Therapy is the key to the matchup (Naming PoP) at the correct time and playing basics strategically before 6 mana (Titan) anyway I can talk for days about this deck but here is my current list...

http://pastebin.com/haNm38ur

4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Primeval Titan
4 Veteran Explorer
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
2 Oracle of Mul Daya
2 Crop Rotation
3 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Abrupt Decay
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Toxic Deluge
1 Scavenging Ooze

1 Snow-Covered Swamp
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Eye of Ugin
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
1 Vesuva
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Savannah
1 Snow-Covered Plains
4 Snow-Covered Forest
1 Karakas
1 Thespian's Stage
2 Cavern of Souls
2 Bayou

1 Dawnstrider
2 Circle of Protection: Red
3 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Krosan Grip
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Rest in Peace
1 Glacial Chasm
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale

[cherson]

the deck looks great but I miss the early game.
this thread is basically a combination of nicfit, 8-12 post and an eldrazi splash.
In my opinion we have a lot of good ideas and I will test your deck but I would like to add some early game..
tireless tracker or thoghtknot..

I played 12 post before and I always had the feeling that it takes too long to cast the big eldrazi.
I am playing nic fit and I love it but struggles a lot against miracles where I come back to this thread all the time :)

don't u miss early interaction? against the fast combo decks or tempo decks in general?

how are your matchups in general??

[Fatal]

the deck looks great but I miss the early game.
this thread is basically a combination of nicfit, 8-12 post and an eldrazi splash.
In my opinion we have a lot of good ideas and I will test your deck but I would like to add some early game..
tireless tracker or thoghtknot..

I played 12 post before and I always had the feeling that it takes too long to cast the big eldrazi.
I am playing nic fit and I love it but struggles a lot against miracles where I come back to this thread all the time :)

don't u miss early interaction? against the fast combo decks or tempo decks in general?

how are your matchups in general??

Everything is written in this thread:
This deck is more permanent control with 7 removal (which 4 are mass). Tireless tracker can help since it's also a drawing machine TKS can be also not bad. Anyway I already answered why I don't put more threads - since they can't win faster then you do it with Titans, TKS is 5 round clock, more over I wanted to blank removal totally - which works.

Matchups are also described in first post.

[cherson]

I know. I actually was referring to the post/deck from ehhh which is different from yours. Especially toxic over deed, the crop rotation and caverns. He is playing less removal and has no early game that is why I was asking for his match ups and problems.

Gesendet von meinem ONE E1003 mit Tapatalk

[Ehhh]

I know. I actually was referring to the post/deck from ehhh which is different from yours. Especially toxic over deed, the crop rotation and caverns. He is playing less removal and has no early game that is why I was asking for his match ups and problems.

Gesendet von meinem ONE E1003 mit Tapatalk

ok so GSZ is a key card to this deck right? if you want to add Dryad Arbor it kind of hinders your mana but is alright for early game [in my testing, not important to the overall plan] Crop rotation is king vs fair decks but if you expect to play vs spell pierce / daze / fow or even Counterbalance this card is just not perfect or ideal and you will need to sideboard it out for most games. I like the idea of playing Deed actually.. have never tried it in this build yet - but it would take the toxic deluge slot and i'm not sure I want to yet (i'll keep it in mind). Cavern of souls is amazing vs any counter deck (not sure why you wouldn't play it) with 4 Titans. I like Thought Knot-Seer but it seems like overkill with card disruption, and my sideboard plan against combo is pretty deep - i generally board in 10-12 cards .. and the bear plan is similar and faster than TKS. I like Scavenging Ooze more aswell, even though it dies to Abrupt Decay - it can get value.

[Fatal]

This construction fight with unstable mana base - even with so many ramp key factor is fast access to both mana - G for Vet and B for Therapy, also removal need both mana, that's why I don't run cavern MD. About counterbalance never had problems with decays and deed around, with removal you have much more time to grind opponent with your CA.

Played more then 1000 games with this construction, get thughts like Crop on SB since "fair" decks without permission is much more rare then with permission, same is with Cavern - you much more want to cast removal on that delver then wish to survive to turn 5 to cast titan from Caverns - if you kill delver you can grind them out. Sure vs Miracles it's also nice add on sb to have caverns, since Deeds kill all their problematic permanents - read CB and Mentors) (except Jace which is slow and still can be killed by Karn). Deed is also great vs D&T since you kill also Vial.

[Ehhh]

This construction fight with unstable mana base - even with so many ramp key factor is fast access to both mana - G for Vet and B for Therapy, also removal need both mana, that's why I don't run cavern MD. About counterbalance never had problems with decays and deed around, with removal you have much more time to grind opponent with your CA.

Played more then 1000 games with this construction, get thughts like Crop on SB since "fair" decks without permission is much more rare then with permission, same is with Cavern - you much more want to cast removal on that delver then wish to survive to turn 5 to cast titan from Caverns - if you kill delver you can grind them out. Sure vs Miracles it's also nice add on sb to have caverns, since Deeds kill all their problematic permanents - read CB and Mentors) (except Jace which is slow and still can be killed by Karn). Deed is also great vs D&T since you kill also Vial.

I see what you mean about Crop Rotation is good vs "fair" decks but crop rotation is just a great card in this style of deck, having nearly a toolbox of cards to search for that give you better game 1 against your troublesome decks. Also crop rotation is just a great card against wasteland which is majority of the format. The mana base is seemly sketchy but i've played over 200 games with it and haven't found it to be as harsh as it seems. Yes, it happens where I am unable to cast both cabal therapy + veteran - not enough to make me want to change the mana base. 2x Cavern is a must in this deck I wish I could add a 3rd truthfully. I'm not sure you can replace land with removal - I want a significant # of land in the deck for Oracle to be more impactful. Deed seems too slow but I haven't tested it yet..

[Ehhh]

This construction fight with unstable mana base - even with so many ramp key factor is fast access to both mana - G for Vet and B for Therapy, also removal need both mana, that's why I don't run cavern MD. About counterbalance never had problems with decays and deed around, with removal you have much more time to grind opponent with your CA.

Played more then 1000 games with this construction, get thughts like Crop on SB since "fair" decks without permission is much more rare then with permission, same is with Cavern - you much more want to cast removal on that delver then wish to survive to turn 5 to cast titan from Caverns - if you kill delver you can grind them out. Sure vs Miracles it's also nice add on sb to have caverns, since Deeds kill all their problematic permanents - read CB and Mentors) (except Jace which is slow and still can be killed by Karn). Deed is also great vs D&T since you kill also Vial.

Trying out 3 Deed now (more black sources)

[nimkee]

Trying out 3 Deed now (more black sources)
Is anyone still on this deck? I gave it a swing the other day. It was a lot of fun. I lost to a lands deck 2-1 through waste loam and then 2-1 maverick via kotr wastes and then a quickish merrit lage after he thought seized my answers away.

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