7 Land Rat Belcher

[admurk]

Hello all,
I have been a longtime player of mtg (16 years) and love a good brew.
I think I have finally cracked the 7 land belcher list in modern.

This is a rough list and I would love feedback from people.

I have been playing this list on mtgo for the last week and it is bonkers, at least tier 1.5.


1 x overgrown tomb
5 x snow-covered forest
1 x snow-covered swamp

3 x inquisition of kozilek
4 x ancient stirrings
4 x caravan vigil
4 x lay of the land
4 x safewright quest
4 x pack rat
4 x rampant growth
4 x sakura-tribe elder
4 x wall of roots
2 x abrupt decay
4 x search for tomorrow
4 x goblin charbelcher
4 x wurmcoil engine
4 chancellor of the tangle


sideboard
1 x inquisition of kozilek
2 x abrupt decay
3 x nature's claim
3 x grafdigger's cage
3 x guttural response
2 x pithing needle


So the snow lands could be normal basics, but meh, its jank enough anyway.
This list allows you to beat most decks easily, a nice turn 4/5 kill with disruption is normal, or you can grind depending on the match up.
Sideboard hate (aka stony silence) can be beaten with the 7 removal spells, and most other things are irrelevant.
Plus discard and 'response' to deal with control lists.

I like that this list is kind of like twin, in that you have a combo, but can just grind if it is reasonable, after all, you do end up only drawing all non-land cards after you do the searchy searches (in case you were wondering, you discard the extra searching spells to pack rat).


There are a number of lists for this deck on mtgsalvation, but they haven't going anywhere for a while.
I also have a red list with SSG and young pyro, but I think this is better.

Please let me know your thoughts. I honestly think this is something.
No stupid responses please, I will not be changing cards, unless you have data that shows an improvement (I concede that the sideboard definitely could do with some work).
Whilst I am potentially giving away my edge with the list (yeah right!!?!), I have posted this to stop others claiming credit later in the year, as they did when i put scry lands in ad nauseam, even before born of the gods was released (4 x temple of deceit) and played it in GP Prague in Jan 2014,(Michael Bonde was at the tournament, I believe. Big props btw, for turning it into something real, in reflection, my list was very poor) (And well done Jahred, your 9th place at the pro tour with the mega super-dooper improved list (that I have absolutely nothing to do with, but have been ripping off since) was inspirational and led me to search for other off-the-radar lists! Although after watching you on the SCG stream, I am starting to think you could win a tournament with a toilet brush!!!).
Hopefully, we can do the same here and better people than I at this beautiful game can improve on the list.


Also, on a different note, I think fairies is tier 1 in modern, the tron match up is bad, but Chapin's list from his article a couple of weeks ago (with pack rat) is very very good and I rarely lose games with it.


I love this site, long time lurker, first time poster!

Thanks

[Bed Decks Palyer]

Please let me know your thoughts. I honestly think this is something.


When I saw the snow lands, I immediatelly thought of Into the North. It may even find the snow slow land, in case you'll need it for anything. Tresserhorn Sinks casts both Pack Rat and Guttural Response. Other than that: good luck.

[admurk]

Thanks for your response Bed Decks.
I believe the reason that the into the north is not good is that you need the overgrown tomb in the list (both a immediate green source and an extra black for the rat), (which can be found with the safewright quest), and I do not think you can risk playing any further non-basics in the list (especially non-green sources, the swamp is already a tough choice), as even if the one non-basic is destroyed you are generally more reliant on wall of roots to aid you going off.
Also the fact that the overgrown tomb can come into play untapped is very important. In the early game you want to cast as many of your ramp spells as possible in a turn.


Thanks for your input, I will keep the snow non-basics in mind though, as I may find a way to make them usable.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

Thanks for your response Bed Decks.
I believe the reason that the into the north is not good is that you need the overgrown tomb in the list (both a immediate green source and an extra black for the rat), (which can be found with the safewright quest), and I do not think you can risk playing any further non-basics in the list (especially non-green sources, the swamp is already a tough choice), as even if the one non-basic is destroyed you are generally more reliant on wall of roots to aid you going off.
Also the fact that the overgrown tomb can come into play untapped is very important. In the early game you want to cast as many of your ramp spells as possible in a turn.


Thanks for your input, I will keep the snow non-basics in mind though, as I may find a way to make them usable.

Shame that the snow duals were designed before the Wizards changed their policy to always make a full cycles of ten lands. This way you're left without a G/B one, and that sucks. Still, if you're casting Into the North, chances are that you got your green mana, thus a R/B snowland might be useful, because it adds the black mana you need, and it also adds the red mana that might be used for Guttural Response. Bt it's still pretty weak reason to play Into the North, but yeah, why not mention it...
Btw, do you have any trouble with seven lands only? It seems like you must mulligan quite often when you open a no-lander.

Also, Gatecreeper Vine might find a Golgari Guildgate in case you'd desperately need this amazingly bad land. :laugh:
It's a 0/2 only, but it may buy you a turn.

[Phoenix Ignition]

I have been playing this list on mtgo for the last week and it is bonkers, at least tier 1.5.

Also, on a different note, I think fairies is tier 1 in modern, the tron match up is bad, but Chapin's list from his article a couple of weeks ago (with pack rat) is very very good and I rarely lose games with it.



Out of curiosity, are you testing in the practice rooms or for real money? The comments here look like a classic case of practice-room-itis where you run into inexperienced players or unusual, untested decks. It isn't hard to have a winning record, or even almost undefeated record, in the practice rooms but try out a few daily tournaments to get a real idea of the competition level to expect.

If you have played in real tournaments, what were the results and what were the losses to?

[admurk]

Hi Phoenix,
I only play for money. 2-mans at the mo.
I will take the deck through a daily when I have more time, currently away on business in China, so right now long playtesting seasons are few and far between, I may be able to try tomorrow, depending the state of the hangover I am currently cultivating.

I honestly think this deck is real. I can play any modern deck I want online, I have all the jund/gb builds, twin, tron, ad naus, burn, etc, but really enjoy this list. Like I said in the original post, I like Fae as well, but I am kinda just addicted to this list now. I have even been playing it over my vintage and legacy decks as rouge decks are too much fun!

To answer Bed's question, Mulligans are fine. You have a greater than >85% chance of a green land in your opener, and then you also have chancellor.
If you do mulligan, hands without action, but ramp/land spells will often lead to a win, as you draw into rat, wurm, stirrings, or just the belcher itself (I think this is what improves on the previous lists as they do not have enough action, with this list, you can get a real beatdown on and threaten some impressive board states, whilst throwing dead cards to the rat).
Like I said before, I will definitely take the tap lands into consideration. It is just based on your need for an untapped land turn 1, I do not think the list can currently cope with them.

Jund isn't a bad match up either btw, Lili ultimates can devastating depending on the board state, but other than that, all is gravy. Nice goyf, have a look at my turn 4 wurmcoil.

Phoenix, I have read you posts for a longtime and think you always have good points, so thanks for the comment, I can truly recommend testing this list.
Today alone I have beaten, meilra pod, gw hatebears (this seems like should be a bad match but haven't lost to it yet), burn twice, tron and then lost twice to amulet combo (same opp, I think I made a mistake in the first round, but the second it was all PrimeTime all the time).

I cannot stress enough, I think this is real, akin to Tron, Affinity, and Twin, as you can grind or just plough through them.

Thanks both.

[admurk]

Sorry gentlemen, just realized my maths is a little off.
Its around 90% including the chancellor, so as long you have a couple of one mana green spells, things usually work out (this brings the percentage down a little as 2 one mana spells will bring the average down slightly).
If the swamp was another forest the percentage would be quite a lot higher, a fellow on mtgsalvation reckons its around 92% with 7 green sources, but you really need two black for some of the pack rat games, as you can easily have 6 mana, a rat and a bundle of dead cards.
Also, another overgrown tomb wouldn't help, as most of the search will only find basics (you regularly go off with all the tomb still in the deck, this is usually fine, especially on a wall of roots draw as that card allows you to play the belcher and then in their turn activate it, you often get an untap after this if you do not kill them to go again (with the tomb as the last card in the deck))

[admurk]

Went 2-2 in the daily.

[Phoenix Ignition]

Went 2-2 in the daily.

What were the losses to?

I'll throw this together when I get a chance in a couple days, but I'm always curious about the effectiveness of the number of off-axis strategies decks have and am a bit worried about that here. Belcher is clearly the major build-around card and as long as you find enough swamps, Pack rat seems like a neat way of getting rid of extra lands or land fetching stuff. Wurmcoil engine is great against everything non-path to exile/ infinite combo but is another 4-of that doesn't go to your main strategy. I'd like that if Chancellor of the Tangle wasn't already a big beater who actually fits with the theme, and I want to say fits the same role of *belcher didn't work, lets beat them to death*.

If there weren't enough cards to work toward your main strategy, using bombs of Wurmcoil or growing threats like Pack rat would make more sense, but I've always liked Recross the Paths, and there are always more ways to strip your deck of lands, which may help with consistency or speed, and especially with getting the 2nd swamp (which really seems necessary to make pack rat worth it).

Basically the question comes down to, "would streamlining the deck be worth taking out the off-axis win conditions?" Which is in my mind matchup dependent.

[admurk]

The wins were to Scapeshift and Through the Breach/Scapeshift.
The losses were to Tron and Burn.

The Tron match up was interesting, the first game I IoK and take his Sylvan Scrying, which slowed him down.
I then put 3 wurmcoils in play, he played 2 of his own and started karning, I then played the belcher for the win.
2nd game, he turn 3 karned on the play, ggs. In the last game I was still live with a abrupt decay to kill his spellskite, while he karned away my rats and wurms and eventually some of my mana, but as I didn't draw it, the big jelly momma made an appearance and that was that.

Regarding linear vs. off-axis, the linear version of this list is not consistent enough.
In the breach/scapeshift match I beat my opp. with rats in the final game, even throwing a charbelcher to ensure I had the job done (only had 4 lands in play, this is part of the reason why the linear version is inconsistent as sometimes you just draw a load of rubbish that cannot charbelcher till turn 6+, but could easily get rats on the go quickly).

You need another axis of attack with the deck, as you can never turn 2 your opp for free wins, so you need to be able to block (pack rat is sometimes a nice 2 mana blocker, aka time walk). The wurmcoils are part of the original list from the mtgsalvation page (I have also tried Batterskull, but generally the wurm is better), and I feel they are necessary to deal with burn and jund.
Also, 7 mana (chancellor) is a lot different to 6 in this deck. Although you need 7 to go off with the charbelcher, you can do it with 5 lands and a wall of roots (activate in their upkeep).

1 of the Rampant Growths could be a Recross though, as I used to really enjoy the ability to stack the whole deck off that card and they do very similar jobs whilst land is still in the list. Don't think you can stretch to too many of them though, as 3 mana is a lot for some of the opening hands and when you have lands still in the list it is an overcosted everything else.

Stripping the deck of lands is not the issue, finding ways to make your opp. deal with what you are doing is more important, if you just have belcher they can easily just hold there counters to deal with it, or strip it with a thoughtseize. With extra threats you are not allowing them to dictate the pace of the game, as you can just randomly pressure them. I regularly end up beating down with the tribe-elders as well, especially if I have the mana (4/5/6 lands depending on situation - 4 involves a couple of wall of roots) in play to do what I want and only need to crack them to thin when the belcher lands in play to ensure a kill.
Also, 1 swamp for the rat is usually enough, just like in standard. You rarely pitch lands to the rat, they are far too important.

In some match ups I board out most of the rats or wurmcoils for more answers, this helps to streamline your list against the deck your opp. is playing and makes you slightly more linear again.

Some games you are the rat/wurm/tribe-elder/chanceller beatdown deck with abrupt decays and IoK, this is a fine option, if necessary.

Thanks again