Hatebear stompy

[pfiremc13]

So I had this idea...

(original list)
3 Baneslayer Angel
3 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Spirit of the Labyrinth

4 Chrome Mox
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Rest in Peace
4 Trinisphere
3 Oblivion Ring
4 Suppression Field

4 City of Traitors
4 Wasteland
3 Karakas
8 Plains
4 Rishadan Port

//Sideboard
4 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Batterskull
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
3 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Cavern of Souls

The point of this deck is to absolutely wreck storm as much as humanly possible. (jk, but it comes close)

This deck is essentially a mana denial deck. Put lots of pressure on the opponent's mana base, and make their spells cost more to make life even harder. There are also some cards here that deal with randomly annoying cards/archetypes that can get through mana denial (I'll get to those later.) This deck has been tested somewhat on cockatrice but not very much so I'm very open to suggestions.

Card choices:

4 Suppression Field

Hoses: Fetches, walkers, stoneforge and equipment, drs

Suppression field is a 1-card engine. It puts pressure on the opponent's manabase by limiting their ability to crack fetches and therefore get more lands in play, and its taxing effect often requires the opponent to have many lands in play to activate the ubiquitous activated abilities in legacy (significant ones listed above). The idea in this deck is that with even more pressure on the manabase, suppression field becomes even harder to escape.

4 Trinisphere
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben

Some of the best taxing cards in legacy, these cards often force opposing decks to pay more mana than they have in order to cast their spells...just really good with mana denial.

4 Chalice of the Void

Obviously ridiculous, this also helps with the mana denial plan since your opponent can only cast more expensive spells with chalice out.

4 Wasteland

Pretty straightforward. Kills lands, opponent can't cast spells, opponent is sad.

4 Rishadan Port

More mana denial

4 Chrome Mox
4 City of Traitors

Accelerate the mana denial plan, especially chalice/3sphere. Help ramp into baneslayer too

4 Spirit of the Labyrinth

Hoses: Brainstorm, griselbrand, jace

Shores up the S&T and miracles matchups, also stops the opponent from cantripping their way out of a bad situation

4 Rest in Peace

Hoses: drs, goyf, pfire, dredge

The above are annoying cards/a matchup that this deck really wants dealt with.

3 Oblivion Ring

Really for anything that gets through the mana denial. Answers any permanent, no questions asked.

3 Karakas

Great vs. show and tell, especially along with spirit of the labyrinth. Also saves thalias and brimazes (?) from removal.

4 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte

My wincons, self-explanatory

Sideboard

4 Phyrexian Revoker

For when you side out suppression field and really need a permanent answer to one thing.

3 Batterskull

Mainly for miracles, but against creature decks when I have too much to side out these come in too.

1 Sword of Fire and Ice
3 Umezawa's Jitte

For the annoying mono-color creature decks. 3-1 split because jitte is legendary.

2 Ratchet Bomb

More for the creature decks, but also kills entreat tokens

2 Cavern of Souls

For my miracles plan. If I run the miracles player out of removal, this can do wonders at putting a wincon into play. In theory, it should be spectacular with brimaz and karakas.

Current list: testing

2 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
3 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
3 Flickerwisp
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Suppression Field
4 Council's Judgment
4 Wasteland
6 Plains
3 Karakas
3 Containment Priest
3 Spirit of the Labyrinth
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
3 Flagstones of Trokair
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Baneslayer Angel
4 Ancient Tomb
2 Crucible of Worlds
2 Flooded Strand
2 City of Traitors
SB: 1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
SB: 4 Phyrexian Revoker
SB: 3 Trinisphere
SB: 2 Aven Mindcensor
SB: 3 Jötun Grunt
SB: 2 Armageddon

apple713's list

3 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
3 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
3 Spirit of the Labyrinth
3 Aven Mindcensor
3 Flickerwisp
3 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Mirran Crusader
4 Stoneforge Mystic

1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Fire and Ice

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Suppression Field
3 Council's Judgment

4 Chrome Mox
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
9 Plains
3 Karakas

//Partial sideboard
SB: 1 Umezawa's Jitte
SB: 1 Sword of War and Peace
SB: 4 Rest in Peace
SB: 1 Council's Judgment
SB: 4 Humility

[(nameless one)]

This deck reminds me of Angel Stompy (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?2635-Deck-Angel-Stompy&highlight=Angel+Stompy)

[Blastoderm]

Consider Oblivion Ring only due to 2W mana cost instead of 1WW

Stoneforge is probably better than baneslayer angel

[pfiremc13]

Consider Oblivion Ring only due to 2W mana cost instead of 1WW

Stoneforge is probably better than baneslayer angel

Good point about oblivion ring. It just leaves me worried that this the deck will then fall flat to a resolved tnn.

I disagree that stoneforge > BSA, especially because of all the mana this deck has and all the things it wants to be doing on turns 2-3. I think by the time you're done casting mana denial you can probably cast BSA in a turn or so. Also, suppression field screws with stoneforge and equipment as I mentioned earlier. Obviously, this will need more testing.

[pfiremc13]

I'm finding this deck needs more actual mana denial, instead of just wasteland and the conditional suppression field. I'm putting in rishadan ports and swapping cj for o-ring.

[apple713]

port wasteland and karakas have negative interactions with suppression field, not to mention a majority of your sideboard does as well... maybe just run 4x helm of obedience and take out your creatures since you are already running 4x RIP

[pfiremc13]

Good point about suppression field, I'll probably cut it. That allows me to put in stoneforges...I'll have 4 of those and 2 BSA to have a variety between midgame and lategame wincons.

Helm is good but inconsistent since I'm not blue.

[pfiremc13]

Testing cutting baneslayers entirely and adding leonin arbiters as a fetch-hoser

[apple713]

i guess i should have made my point more clear. I encourage the use of suppression field however you deck should be adapted accordingly. if you want to start using SFM and equips, your concept is already lost. the deck has already been made efficient and is called stone blade. Your strategy and only hope for branching out would be to focus on taxing effects similar to suppression field, and leonine, as well as aven minds censor possibly and adapting a strategy that takes full advantage of your opponents loss of tempo. suppression field is amazing, it hoses something in almost all decks.

[pfiremc13]

Suppression field interacts negatively with the mana denial, which is essential to the deck. I could play them together, but that makes it so much more awkward. Maybe it is correct to put them in anyway. For now I'l try out the arbiters.

Just because there is a best stoneforge mystic deck doesn't mean that there can't be others. Running that package significantly improves my otherwise difficult creature matchups and is just a great wincon in general.

[ESG]

Suppression Field is a powerful card without a good home. In terms of building around, avoiding activated abilities is the hardest feat to pull off. It's not like Chalice of the Void, where you can scoot the curve up and down between zero and two, in order to play around the symmetry. You can't really build a deck around Suppression Field because there aren't enough interchangeable pieces, leaving you with a problem if you don't draw it or it comes down too late or gets countered. In addition, the costs of building around Suppression Field are forsaking many of the format's powerful cards. That said, the Field can still be a complementary lock piece in a deck with many other locks. Suppression Field clashes with Stoneforge Mystic and equipment, as you've noticed. You might take a look at the Soldier Stompy thread (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?23958-Soldier-Stompy-%28Tribal-Tomb-Based-Aggro%29) for another perspective on a deck going for a similar game plan. It would also be worthwhile to examine the advantages and disadvantages of this deck over Death & Taxes. In what matchups or situations would this deck be better than Death & Taxes?

[pfiremc13]

Good points. If I were to compare this deck to the other two, I'd say this deck is more focused, specifically on mana denial. The other decks play creatures that do other stuff but this deck's purpose is little but mana denial.

[apple713]

it works well with pithing needle to lock down activates and so does the phyrexian revoker.

think, D&T meets Stax

[ahg113]

As ESG mentioned, Suppression Field is good in a bubble, and not necessarily with other readily played cards.

What are the strong played trigger abilities or replacement abilities? A pet card, but could be strong is something like Descendants' Path instead of Aether Vial. Replacement effects that come to mind are dredging.

I think Suppression Field is going to shine when there's a strong game plan that doesn't involve activated abilities- ie. some versions of burn, or a fetch-less type Zoo deck.

There's a janky white enchantment prison deck in Modern. If there were bang for the buck type things in Legacy, that might be a plan of thought.

Are there strong triggered abilities in complimentary models, ideally that don't require an activated ability to begin? Bob trigger, epic triggers, Form of the Dragon, Oaths of non-Druids(if they were good), etc. ...???

If it weren't for Chalice, this deck seems like it also wants Gaddock Teeg

[apple713]

with that in mind, suppression field lends its self to an enchantment based deck with that new eidoloin that draws cards when you play enchantments. you could use descendants path and instead of SDT u have access to mirri's guile and sylvan library.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?27789-Haters-Gonna-Hate-dec&p=830901&viewfull=1#post830901

This is what I'm trying in T1. Not brilliant, but it's funny.
I think that for a non-DnT, non-Mav hatebears deck, attacking fetchlands (and search at all) should be mandatory.

4 Savannah
3 Horizon Canopy
4 Wasteland
4 Ghost Quarter
3 Razorverge Thicket
3 Temple Garden
1 [Strip Mine]
//\\
// Creatures
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Leonin Arbiter
4 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Scavenging Ooze
3 Gaddock Teeg
3 Aven Mindcensor
3 Qasali Pridemage
2 [Kataki, War's Wage]

//\\
// Spells
4 Suppression Field
4 Path to Exile
//\\
// Sideboard
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Qasali Pridemage
2 [Kataki, War's Wage]
4 Grafdigger's Cage
4 Rest in Peace
2 Swords to Plowshares

Bracketed are the Vintage-specific cards that need to be changed for something more likely for Legacy. And no, this isn't Chalice.dec, although it's also a possibility, there's Soldier Stompy and we're not talking about that. But yeah, maybe one may cut the Swords and add Sol lands and then find place for CotV and OblRing. Butthen it's definitely something else, moreovaer it cannot support two colours.
If in GW I'd start with this. Sadly, there's one problem, creature removal, becasue Legacy is full of it and full of big beaters ,so the mere 2/x and x/2 dudes will havehard time winning, even before the sb-ed Massacres, Clasms, etc.

[pfiremc13]

If in GW I'd start with this. Sadly, there's one problem, creature removal, becasue Legacy is full of it and full of big beaters ,so the mere 2/x and x/2 dudes will havehard time winning, even before the sb-ed Massacres, Clasms, etc.

Chalice of the Void/thalia/3sphere do a pretty good job at protecting your dudes. Stoneforge helps with creatures, and RIP helps vs. goyf. O-ring deals with other random stuff. The thing is that this deck isn't just hatebears, and the rest of the deck supports the hatebear plan.

[pfiremc13]

I feel like just going "fuck it" and swapping the rest in peaces with the suppression fields in the board.

[apple713]

put a little bit f work into this list and i like it so far

basically a modified version of death and taxes. its basically just a more explosive version because of the sol lands. even though suppression field conflicts with SFM and karakas its more detrimental against opposing players relying on fetch lands, planes walkers, ports, wastelands, and other abilities.

strategy is to land a threat and then tax opponent to make difficult decisions.

Linvala is huge - shuts down elves, DRS, SFM, Griselbrand, grim lavamancer, probably more I'm not thinking of


creatures -23

3 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
3 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
3 Spirit of the Labyrinth
3 Aven Mindcensor
3 Flickerwisp
3 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Mirran Crusader
4 Stoneforge Mystic


equipment - 2

1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Fire and Ice


control - 11

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Suppression Field
3 Council's Judgment


Mana - 24

4 Chrome Mox
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
9 Plains
3 Karakas


partial sideboard

SB: 1 Umezawa's Jitte
SB: 1 Sword of War and Peace
SB: 4 Rest in Peace
SB: 1 Council's Judgment
SB: 4 Humility

[MGB]

I've been playing variants of this deck for the past 4+ years (Soldier Tribal based, and sans Soldiers with the Mystics, Arbiters, etc). I've tested with and without Suppression Field and have generated better results without it.

Suppression Field is such an odd card.

The problem with Suppression Field is that:

You have to view it purely as a tempo card. For the 1W you are spending, you need to extract payment of at least 4 mana or more from your opponent just to gain any kind of tempo advantage at all. And that's only tempo advantage. By casting Suppression Field you start out at -1 card advantage because the Field itself does nothing else (unlike if Field was printed as a creature like Thorn->Thalia).

So to make Field a worthwhile play in any given game we have to force the opponent to pay *twice* for activations of some kind. It's not enough just to force him to pay 2 mana for a fetchland because if that's all you've accomplished you're dead even on tempo advantage and -1 in card advantage. And even if you force two payments, you are still only marginally ahead on tempo. Ideally you want the opponent to be hindered for at least 3+ activations.

Extracting 3+ payments from an opponent usually only happens when the opposing deck is chock-full of activated abilities (like Death n Taxes or Miracles). Against the popular Delver variants, your targets will mostly be 8 or so fetchlands they play, and DRS/Lili in the UBG versions. Against UR Delver and UGR Delver, Field will often be completely unable to generate more than 1-2 payments unless you play it on Turn 1 on the play, because if you play at any point after that, they will crack their fetches in response to you playing the Field, and/or just draw into non-fetch lands.

And then you are still just establishing tempo. If you go later into the game, that tempo will evaporate when everyone gains access to more mana. If you can't close the game out before the game gets to that point, Suppression Field turns into a dead card once more as opponent will just gladly pay 2 mana to activate his Jace, Liliana, fetches, or his AEther Vial, and have absolutely no problem doing so.

I think for Suppression Field to be really playable the tax has to be heavier (3-4 mana) or it has to be attached to a body (like Thorn of Amethyst is barely playable in Legacy but Thalia is supremely playable).

[pfiremc13]

put a little bit f work into this list and i like it so far

basically a modified version of death and taxes. its basically just a more explosive version because of the sol lands. even though suppression field conflicts with SFM and karakas its more detrimental against opposing players relying on fetch lands, planes walkers, ports, wastelands, and other abilities.

strategy is to land a threat and then tax opponent to make difficult decisions.

Linvala is huge - shuts down elves, DRS, SFM, Griselbrand, grim lavamancer, probably more I'm not thinking of


creatures -23

3 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
3 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
3 Spirit of the Labyrinth
3 Aven Mindcensor
3 Flickerwisp
3 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Mirran Crusader
4 Stoneforge Mystic


equipment - 2

1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Fire and Ice


control - 11

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Suppression Field
3 Council's Judgment

Look
Mana - 24

4 Chrome Mox
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
9 Plains
3 Karakas


partial sideboard

SB: 1 Umezawa's Jitte
SB: 1 Sword of War and Peace
SB: 4 Rest in Peace
SB: 1 Council's Judgment
SB: 4 Humility


Looks sweet! How have the flicker wisps been working?

I'm surprised to see maindeck canonists--how are they?

Do you know if the miracles matchup is as bad as it seems?

I really like how linvala improves the d&t and elves matchups. (Goddamn merfolk and goblins...)

[apple713]

Looks sweet! How have the flicker wisps been working?

I'm surprised to see maindeck canonists--how are they?

Do you know if the miracles matchup is as bad as it seems?

I really like how linvala improves the d&t and elves matchups. (Goddamn merfolk and goblins...)

flickerwisp is ok, it flies so thats nice and has some decent interactions with tokens, planes walkers, aether vial and such

cannonist is nice just because you don't worry too much about combo g1 and you have a sb for more if you need it.

being able to play almost any card on t1 is very nice.

[Admiral_Arzar]

This deck needs Moat and Armageddon.

[pfiremc13]

cannonist is nice just because you don't worry too much about combo g1 and you have a sb for more if you need it.

But you already have chalice of the void, aven mindcensor, AND spirit of the labyrinth against elves/storm/high tide, in addition to linvala and suppression field against elves. They seem like pretty good matcuhps. I guess it hoses cascade too, but still.

[apple713]

But you already have chalice of the void, aven mindcensor, AND spirit of the labyrinth against elves/storm/high tide, in addition to linvala and suppression field against elves. They seem like pretty good matcuhps. I guess it hoses cascade too, but still.

alright, so instead of telling me its bad or doesn't fit, suggest what should replace it? armageddon?

[pfiremc13]

alright, so instead of telling me its bad or doesn't fit, suggest what should replace it? armageddon?

I wasn't thinking of anything in particular, just questioning that choice. Keep in mind that you've probably tested the deck more than I have.

However, I just noticed you aren't running thalia. That's probably a good card to have.

Armageddon is very interesting and definitely worth testing. One on hand, it might be very hard for an opponent to recover from it with all the hatebears. On the other hand, this deck doesn't usually develop too much of a board presence and it is a 4-mana sorcery...

[apple713]

I wasn't thinking of anything in particular, just questioning that choice. Keep in mind that you've probably tested the deck more than I have.

However, I just noticed you aren't running thalia. That's probably a good card to have.

Armageddon is very interesting and definitely worth testing. One on hand, it might be very hard for an opponent to recover from it with all the hatebears. On the other hand, this deck doesn't usually develop too much of a board presence and it is a 4-mana sorcery...

thalia, i didn't like because it has negative interactions with my deck and doesn't actually stop combo decks like elves, high tide, ant.

if a suppression field has hit the table, the opponent is often trying to catch up. This is one reason why i actually find playing armageddon very worth. any kind of advantage gained will put you in a favorable position to cast it. even landing a weak 2/2 threat with suppression field may bar the opponent from recovery because of fetch lands, and having already fetched out a few already.

[Cire]

Apple: what about the new containment priest in this deck?

4 Containment Priest
4 Spirit of the Labyrinth
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Aven Mindcensor
3 Ethersworn Canonist

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Suppression Field
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
4 Rest In Peace
4 Helm of Obedience

4 Chrome Mox
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
9 Plains
3 Karakas

Pretty much has an MD answer to almost anything in the meta?

[Jables237]

Apple: what about the new containment priest in this deck?

4 Containment Priest
4 Spirit of the Labyrinth
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Aven Mindcensor
3 Ethersworn Canonist

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Suppression Field
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
4 Rest In Peace
4 Helm of Obedience

4 Chrome Mox
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
9 Plains
3 Karakas

Pretty much has an MD answer to almost anything in the meta?

I think this does take care of just about every unfair matchup. My biggest worry would be shardless. Also, anything with massacre and/or toxic deluge are pretty bad as well.

[Cire]

I think this does take care of just about every unfair matchup. My biggest worry would be shardless. Also, anything with massacre and/or toxic deluge are pretty bad as well.

That's what an SB is for :laugh:

[MGB]

Apple: what about the new containment priest in this deck?

4 Containment Priest
4 Spirit of the Labyrinth
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Aven Mindcensor
3 Ethersworn Canonist

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Suppression Field
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
4 Rest In Peace
4 Helm of Obedience

4 Chrome Mox
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
9 Plains
3 Karakas

Pretty much has an MD answer to almost anything in the meta?

Except that in any given matchup you have a small subset of cards that apply to that matchup and alot of other dead cards. And no way to a.) find the subset of highly relevant cards or b.) filter away the dead cards. This is why decks like Miracles and other classic UWx control decks can run the "many answers" approach - because they have access to tutors, Top, and most importantly, Brainstorm.

Non-blue decks that try to do the same approach - i.e. control the game with silver bullet answers to each opponent - will never transcend the "inconsistent and mostly mediocre" status because of this lack of blue that leads to lack of consistency. This is the #1 problem Stax has had in this format.

[Cire]

Except that in any given matchup you have a small subset of cards that apply to that matchup and alot of other dead cards. And no way to a.) find the subset of highly relevant cards or b.) filter away the dead cards. This is why decks like Miracles and other classic UWx control decks can run the "many answers" approach - because they have access to tutors, Top, and most importantly, Brainstorm.

Non-blue decks that try to do the same approach - i.e. control the game with silver bullet answers to each opponent - will never transcend the "inconsistent and mostly mediocre" status because of this lack of blue that leads to lack of consistency. This is the #1 problem Stax has had in this format.

I agree - but I guess the Idea of this deck is to drag other decks down to your level. Against current blue - with SOL, COV, Mindcensor, Suppression field, RIP - they have to get through a lot. Their Brainstorms are taken care of, their Treasure Cruises are taken care off, no fetchlands. ETC. Again - the problem is that this deck can't filter - but I guess the plan is to prevent the other guy from filtering as well.

[pfiremc13]

I think this does take care of just about every unfair matchup. My biggest worry would be shardless. Also, anything with massacre and/or toxic deluge are pretty bad as well.

Shardless agent is nerfed by both ethersworn canonist and lab spirit (shutting off ancestral). The sweepers are a problem, but you afford not to overextend with this deck because many of your hatebears just won't do anything against certain decks. That many seem like a downside, but the deck has a reasonable chance of winning even when it draws grizzly bears because the hatebears that actually do work are really good.

Containment priest is really good I think.

[Megadeus]

Shardless agent is nerfed by both ethersworn canonist and lab spirit (shutting off ancestral). The sweepers are a problem, but you afford not to overextend with this deck because many of your hatebears just won't do anything against certain decks. That many seem like a downside, but the deck has a reasonable chance of winning even when it draws grizzly bears because the hatebears that actually do work are really good.

Containment priest is really good I think.

Actually, shardless being an artifact creature gets around canonist

[apple713]

Apple: what about the new containment priest in this deck?



probably wouldn't rely on helm combo because you can't search for it and so you are hoping to get lucky with cards that distract from the main strategy. You are a creature based aggro deck, and a fairly decent one. It approaches the game with a tempo strategy. the benefit here is that your tempo cards serve as threats.

containment priest is good but not sure if main. consider the top lists. It interacts with show and tell, sneak attack, natural order, green suns zenith, aether vial, dredge, and reanimator. maybe its worth 2-3 slots in favor of... definitely 1 murrain crusader and 1-2x something else.

BUG
UW Miracles
Stoneblade
Show and Tell
Elves
Death & Taxes
RUG
Storm
UR Delver
Patriot Aggro
Jund
Burn
Dredge
Merfolk
Reanimator
Painter



Except that in any given matchup you have a small subset of cards that apply to that matchup and alot of other dead cards. And no way to a.) find the subset of highly relevant cards or b.) filter away the dead cards. This is why decks like Miracles and other classic UWx control decks can run the "many answers" approach - because they have access to tutors, Top, and most importantly, Brainstorm.

Non-blue decks that try to do the same approach - i.e. control the game with silver bullet answers to each opponent - will never transcend the "inconsistent and mostly mediocre" status because of this lack of blue that leads to lack of consistency. This is the #1 problem Stax has had in this format.

first of all this deck is not really even close to stax. stax is prison lock, this deck is tempo based. This deck does have silver bullets, but they are also sizable threats, which is something stax does not have. White hate bears have gotten to a point where they are possibly in contention of being a top deck i think. This deck is not all that different from D&T, but i think it functions better. D&T is slow and this at least has potential to be quick. Against D&T, although i have not done significant testing, i would imagine this has a better chance if it can stick a suppression field. D&T is all activated abilities, so if you cut them off on that front they are just playing a very slow aggro deck.


improvements on the deck should be focused towards improving your aggro matches and generating card advantage. flickerwisps are infinitely better with containment priest also, so that may help the aggro matches considerably.

[pfiremc13]

thalia, i didn't like because it has negative interactions with my deck and doesn't actually stop combo decks like elves, high tide, ant.

Meant to respond to this. Thalia actually hurts most legacy decks a lot more than us-- cantrips get much worse because now they have a much harder time casting a cantrip and something else in the same turn. Same thing with force and daze. It's not just for combo, a lot of legacy decks are signifcantly impacted by that card.

[pfiremc13]

After testing a little more, I found stoneforge to be somewhat of a liability. This deck very often has suppression field out and this deck really wants to develop a board presence quickly. Turn 3 batterskull is nice, but other than that stoneforge isn't that great. Here is the list I'm testing.

3 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
4 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
3 Flickerwisp
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Containment Priest
2 Spirit of the Labyrinth

1 Sword of Fire and Ice
3 Council's Judgment

3 Armageddon

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Suppression Field

4 Chrome Mox
2 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Wasteland
9 Plains
3 Karakas

SB: 3 Rest in Peace
SB: 1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
SB: 3 Phyrexian Revoker
SB: 4 Trinisphere
SB: 1 Council's Judgment
SB: 1 Spirit of the Labyrinth
SB: 1 Containment Priest
SB: 1 Flickerwisp

[apple713]

After testing a little more, I found stoneforge to be somewhat of a liability. This deck very often has suppression field out and this deck really wants to develop a board presence quickly. Turn 3 batterskull is nice, but other than that stoneforge isn't that great. Here is the list I'm testing.

3 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
4 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
3 Flickerwisp
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Containment Priest
2 Spirit of the Labyrinth

1 Sword of Fire and Ice
3 Council's Judgment

3 Armageddon

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Suppression Field

4 Chrome Mox
2 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Wasteland
9 Plains
3 Karakas

SB: 3 Rest in Peace
SB: 1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
SB: 3 Phyrexian Revoker
SB: 4 Trinisphere
SB: 1 Council's Judgment
SB: 1 Spirit of the Labyrinth
SB: 1 Containment Priest
SB: 1 Flickerwisp

you have to run at least 3 spirit of the labyrinth. if you've seen how much draw is in the meta you would even consider running 4. Also i foresee removal being an issue.

-1 brimaz
-1 thalia
+1 SoL
+1 batterskull (or Sword of light and shadow)
-2 City of traitors
+2 ancient tomb
-3 plains
+3 flagstones of trokair

[pfiremc13]

Flagstones is a great idea, didn't think of that. I like city of traitors better than tomb because you don't usually want to activate tomb more than twice so it's usually just a city that costs 4 life. I'm trying a list without thalia now since it has hurt me significantly in testing.

[pfiremc13]

Jotun grunt

One of the main problems this deck has is board control. Once it's ahead, it does a good job of staying ahead with armageddon, chalice, etc. Since it runs chalice, it can't run cheap removal and has to rely on the unreliable containment priest + flickerwisp or simply playing more creatures. Jotun grunt helps with that a lot, not only by being a big cheap creature but by downsizing opposing tarmogoyfs. The main downside is against decks like d&t and merfolk it runs out of fuel quickly. However, if you are able to play a quick armageddon afterwards (hopefully there's no vial out) it will get fuel back and proceed to dominate the game.

Speaking of aether vial, I think we should test it ourselves. It cuts into our creature count and doesn't help when we run out of gas, but it develops or board quickly and straight up wins with armageddon.

[pfiremc13]

This deck cannot run chrome mox, the card disadvantage is atrocious. I found myself many times hoping that my turn 1 play would win me the game because I had almost no gas left after playing chrome mox. In addition, it's a worse topdeck than even a land lategame. In short, chrome mox hurts this deck's lategame potential way too much.

I'm putting back in the thalias, they just seem way too good to cut. We should be running enough lands to cast cj for 4 and armageddon for 5 when we really need to.

Also, there has got to be at least 1 baneslayer angel in the main.

Here's what I'm looking at now.

3 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
3 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
3 Flickerwisp
2 Armageddon
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Suppression Field
4 Council's Judgment
4 City of Traitors
4 Wasteland
9 Plains
3 Karakas
3 Containment Priest
3 Spirit of the Labyrinth
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
4 Flagstones of Trokair
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Baneslayer Angel
SB: 1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
SB: 4 Phyrexian Revoker
SB: 4 Trinisphere
SB: 3 Aven Mindcensor
SB: 3 Jötun Grunt

[pfiremc13]

It's possible armageddons should be in the side; I've had difficulty casting them against many decks due to the opponent having a stronger board presence. The dissynergy with thalias could then be mitigated by cutting thalias in some matchups.

[pfiremc13]

Some changes.

2 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
3 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
3 Flickerwisp
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Suppression Field
4 Council's Judgment
4 Wasteland
6 Plains
3 Karakas
3 Containment Priest
3 Spirit of the Labyrinth
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
3 Flagstones of Trokair
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Baneslayer Angel
4 Ancient Tomb
2 Crucible of Worlds
2 Flooded Strand
2 City of Traitors
SB: 1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
SB: 4 Phyrexian Revoker
SB: 3 Trinisphere
SB: 2 Aven Mindcensor
SB: 3 Jötun Grunt
SB: 2 Armageddon

Crucible gives this deck some much-needed land recursion (city of traitors sucks sometimes) and some inevitability with the wastelock. City's drawback was too harsh so I put in some tombs instead. Armageddons continued to suck so I boarded them.

Due to making its land drops more consistently, the deck has felt much better.

Not sure I need the flickerwisp-priest synergy at this point.