[Brew] Dack Tales - Treasure Cruise

[Quizzlemanizzle]

Ok for the longest time this planeswalker had the looks of being strong enough somehow with a lot of good synergies -> Notion Thief, Treasure Cruise, Snapcaster Mage, Flashback Cards

Grixis colors giving access to Lilliana, TS, Toxic Deluge, Notion Thief
or
Rug giving access to Tarmogoyf, Life from the Loam, Grove+Punishing Fire
or
4 colors giving you Deathrite Shaman and Abrupt Decay

This is a rough initial idea

20 Lands
4 Dack Fayden
4 Liliana of the Veil
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

4 Treasure Cruise
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Thoughtseize
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
1 Misdirection
2 Fire//Ice
2 Toxic Deluge

3 Notion Thief
2 Liquimetal Coating

//sideboard
4 Leyline of Sanctity
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Flusterstorm
4 Pyroblast
1 Toxic Deluge

[Richard Cheese]

Well if nothing else, the name is fantastic.

At first glance though, 20 lands with a deck that's pretty heavy on 3 and 4 drops seems a bit scant. There's also kind of a gap at the 2-cmc slot, and not a ton of win cons. I think it's probably worth it to have DRS here even ignoring Green, just for the ramp and the additional damage output.

Dack + Thief and Coating seems strong, I'm just not sure where you go with the rest of the Deck to make it work in Legacy.

[thefreakaccident]

Needs ramp. lightning bolt and fire/ice are decent removal spells... but they won't ever be used to finish someone off by pointing at the dome, as least not in this list. Liquimetal coating+Dack fayden is a cool combo.

[Quizzlemanizzle]

Well if nothing else, the name is fantastic.

At first glance though, 20 lands with a deck that's pretty heavy on 3 and 4 drops seems a bit scant. There's also kind of a gap at the 2-cmc slot, and not a ton of win cons. I think it's probably worth it to have DRS here even ignoring Green, just for the ramp and the additional damage output.

Dack + Thief and Coating seems strong, I'm just not sure where you go with the rest of the Deck to make it work in Legacy.

Yeah I was kind of thinking the same thing.

DRS probably has to fit in even if you don't use his life gain, simply to ramp into Dack or Liliana on turn 2.

Not sure the deck needs a lot of lands since the first Dack activation will usually be on yourself, he provides some additional filtering himself.

Not sure what to cut for the DRS though 1 Fire//Ice, 1 Liliana, 1 Liquimetal Coating +1 maybe the Thoughtseizes would have to go out of the main and into the board to sub in for lightning bolt against combo.

[Quizzlemanizzle]

Needs ramp. lightning bolt and fire/ice are decent removal spells... but they won't ever be used to finish someone off by pointing at the dome, as least not in this list. Liquimetal coating+Dack fayden is a cool combo.

They are not used to finish someone off.

Jace ultimate, Dack ultimate are the real finishers.

Dack ulimates turns all Lightning Bolts, Fire/Ice, Pyroblast into thief spells.

[Richard Cheese]

They are not used to finish someone off.

Jace ultimate, Dack ultimate are the real finishers.

Dack ulimates turns all Lightning Bolts, Fire/Ice, Pyroblast into thief spells.

I don't think I'd be counting on Dack's ultimate as a wincon. Just seems like it would take forever to set up, then you have a limited number of targeted spells to work with afterwards.

Maindeck Blasts would be interesting though, since we've kinda proven that they're rarely dead in Legacy anymore. Four seems a bit too much though.

I keep thinking how fun it would be to build around Notion Thief with things like Anvil of Bogardan and Burning Inquiry, but then I think about how crazy fragile the guy is for 4 mana and wonder if he's not just going to forever be relegated to the sideboard.

[bruizar]

I love the deck name. As you know, I'm also thinking of running notion thief and dack to get some value out of the coming meta's adoption of cruise and dig.

I dislike going planes walker heavy. I'd cut the lilianas. I think you're banking a little too hard on resolving Dack in your list.

Also, if you are going the Liquimetal coating route, I'd love to run a mox monkey, but that's probably too much of a stretch... If you could pull it off i'd go with singleton ancient grudge/some punishing fires/grove of the burnwillows (removing fire/ice and bolts). But, this is probably too much of a stretch. I think you actually have to drop the liquimetal coating from your deck because it does nothing by itself, which is the golden rule for synergy cards in an eternal format (therefore, as much as I'd love to run mox monkey, that's probably also not gonna happen).

Other than that, I think you definitely need DRS. You might also want to consider Ghastly Demise or Innocent Blood over lightning bolt if you're not planning to kill someone with it. By the time you have Dack's ultimate ready you're already winning, because it means he's not being attacked (and no creatures are thus on the table for you to steal).

[bruizar]

This is the list I have if I don't include black.

4x Dack Fayden
2x Jace, the Mind Sculptor

4x Force of Will
1x Commandeer
4x Brainstorm
3x Dig Through Time
2x Spell Pierce
4x Punishing Fires
1x Life from the Loam
4x Tarmogoyf

3x Grim Lavamancer
2x Snapcaster Mage
2x Vendilion Clique
3x Engineered Explosives


Land
4x Grove of the Burnwillows
Fetch, duals, basics

- Punishing Fires with Dack for CA
- Dig Through Time doubling as Counterspell, as a way to find outs (Engineered Explosives) or value (Snapcaster Mage/DTT) or Threats (Tarmogoyfs)
- Miser Commandeer. Want to see how easy it is to get rid of it with Brainstorm / Dack and how often I can use it with Dig Through Time, the deck has great selection which is very nice for finding sideboard bullets.
- Grim Lavamancer with Dack to control the board
- Loam with Dack, and Loam to get back Groves, Loam dredge also fuels DTT
- Vendilion Clique becomes more important in a meta with Treasure Cruise. If you keep track of the graveyard properly, you can prevent a Treasure Cruise from happening by Cliqueing in response to the last card going to the graveyard (e.g. response to fetch crack, clique).
- Engineered Explosives to mop up Delvers, Mongeese or DRS if you can't deal with them via Punishing Fires or Grim Lavamancer

[klaus]

answered inline

20 Lands ---> yep not enough, as already pointed out
4 Dack Fayden
4 Liliana of the Veil ---------> Treasure Cruise and Jace provide C/A, so your opponent will hardly ever be the only one to discard --> dissynergy.
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

4 Treasure Cruise -----> have you tested Dig Through Time?
4 Lightning Bolt ----> seems like a bad STP here. Any x/4+ guys will eat your face, eg.: Lili is the only real out to a resolved tarmogoyf
4 Thoughtseize -----> imo Thoughtseize belongs in decks who can apply early pressure
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
1 Misdirection
2 Fire//Ice -------> not a fan of it in general.
2 Toxic Deluge ---> like it

3 Notion Thief ---> + Dack = living the dream, though this combo won't happen as frequently to build on this shaky two card combo.
2 Liquimetal Coating ---> danger of cool things imo, as long as you've not way to tutor for it.

//sideboard
4 Leyline of Sanctity
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Flusterstorm
4 Pyroblast
1 Toxic Deluge

Here's my take

4 Dack Fayden
4 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

2 Treasure Cruise
2 Dig through Time
2 Spell Snare
2 Pyroblast (just discard it if not needed)
4 Brainstorm
3 Ponder
4 Force of Will
1 Misdirection
2 Terminate
1 Dreadbore
3 Lightning Bolt
3 Toxic Deluge
2 Liquimetal Coating

3 Polluted Delta
3 Bloodstained Mire
3 Scalding Tarn
4 Volcanic Island
4 Underground Sea
1 Badlands
2 Island
1 Mountain
1 Swamp

SB:
2 Notion Thief
2 Pyroblast
2 Fluster Storm
2 Pyroclasm
2 Innocent Blood
2 Shattering Spree
3 This one-sided Relic of P.

[Quizzlemanizzle]

answered inline


Here's my take

3 Dack Fayden
3 Liliana of the Veil
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

2 Treasure Cruise
2 Dig through Time
2 Spell Snare
2 REB (just discard it if not needed)
4 Brainstorm
3 Ponder
4 Force of Will
1 Misdirection
2 Terminate
1 Dreadbore
3 Lightning Bolt
3 Toxic Deluge
1 Liquimetal Coating

3 Polluted Delta
3 Bloodstained Mire
3 Scalding Tarn
4 Volcanic Island
4 Underground Sea
1 Badlands
2 Island
1 Mountain
1 Swamp

SB:
2 Notion Thief
2 Pyroblast
2 Fluster Storm
2 Pyroclasm
2 Innocent Blood
2 Shattering Spree
3 This one-sided Relic of P.

You should run Pyroblast instead of Red Elemental Blast. The ability of Pyroblast to target non-blue permanents is very relevant with Dack's ultimate.

[klaus]

You should run Pyroblast instead of Red Elemental Blast. The ability of Pyroblast to target non-blue permanents is very relevant with Dack's ultimate.
good point. edited.

[bruizar]

list

Why the particular split between DTT and Treasure Cruise? Why 2/2 instead of some other configuration?

[klaus]

Why the particular split between DTT and Treasure Cruise? Why 2/2 instead of some other configuration?

Good point!
The OP should definitely go with DTT, as he's more reliant on two card combos, which DTT is way better at finding.
For me the power draw 3 is nice, since I don't rely as much on filtering, plus I have Ponder for that too.
But who knows - maybe testing will show that either of those choices kicks out the other and becomes a full play set.
My gut feeling tells me DTT might eventually become the highlander here.
What are your thoughts about this?

[bruizar]

Good point!
The OP should definitely go with DTT, as he's more reliant on two card combos, which DTT is way better at finding.
For me the power draw 3 is nice, since I don't rely as much on filtering, plus I have Ponder for that too.
But who knows - maybe testing will show that either of those choices kicks out the other and becomes a full play set.
My gut feeling tells me DTT might eventually become the highlander here.
What are your thoughts about this?

I personally really like the selection DTT provides, but I don't use ponder (I'm not comfortable running too many cantrips and not enough business). What I like about DTT is that it offsets Force of Will and Commandeer/Misdirection. The ability to respond with DTT (to critical spells you need to counter, or to graveyard hate preventing you from delving, or by paying UU and a card to search for a Commandeer and another blue card to steal a Jace) is nice and provides fantastic versatility.

The raw card draw of Treasure Cruise is nice, but I think that Sorcery speed limits its use due to things like Vendilion Clique.

We really have to see how it goes though.

[klaus]

I personally really like the selection DTT provides, but I don't use ponder (I'm not comfortable running too many cantrips and not enough business). What I like about DTT is that it offsets Force of Will and Commandeer/Misdirection. The ability to respond with DTT (to critical spells you need to counter, or to graveyard hate preventing you from delving, or by paying UU and a card to search for a Commandeer and another blue card to steal a Jace) is nice and provides fantastic versatility.

The raw card draw of Treasure Cruise is nice, but I think that Sorcery speed limits its use due to things like Vendilion Clique.

We really have to see how it goes though.

I can see the point you make about Ponder, but for me it's one of THE enablers of Delve cards. Consider the fact that Miracles runs 2-4 Ponder in addition to Top & BS and easily gets away with it.

PS: after getting rid of Lili & Thoughtseize, including :b: over :w: doesn't really seem justified anymore. :w: just offers way better creature hate after all. At this point my approach would deviate too much from the OP, as I'd actually be getting closer to UWR Miracles with Dack + Coating over EtA & CB-Top.

[bruizar]

I can see the point you make about Ponder, but for me it's one of THE enablers of Delve cards. Consider the fact that Miracles runs 2-4 Ponder in addition to Top & BS and easily gets away with it.

PS: after getting rid of Lili & Thoughtseize, including :b: over :w: doesn't really seem justified anymore. :w: just offers way better creature hate after all. At this point my approach would deviate too much from the OP, as I'd actually be getting closer to UWR Miracles with Dack + Coating over EtA & CB-Top.

Dack + Coating is actually discussed in UB-Tezz variants. You can also look for Liquid Termites (vintage):
http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=41294.0

[Quizzlemanizzle]

Dack + Coating is actually discussed in UB-Tezz variants. You can also look for Liquid Termites (vintage):
http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=41294.0

I still would want to run black

1) Toxic Deluge - this deck needs a cheap sweeper to control the board unless you want to run a lot of creatures which I feel is not the right way since Fayden seems better suit for a controling/grindy deck. Pyroclasm is only good against some decks. When you face Tarmogoyf you better have your own Goyf and removal.
2) Notion Thief combo with Dack Fayden.

Even if you strip the deck of Liliana and Thoughtseize for other cards I'd still want black.

Also if you go white you can't play DRS at all.

DTT is nice but I think Treasure Cruise is better for a control deck. Even though there are combo pieces in this deck I think the game plan has to be to win by control and then grind it out and assemble the combo along the way not with a focus to combo as soon as possible.
The better mana cost and raw card advantage of Treasure Cruise seems more appealing.

[bruizar]

http://imgur.com/qO3PHyX.png

It still needs more spells. Explosives feels kind of slow. Would like to have a few more counters and spot removal. Would love to run pyroblast but I need the blue count high for pitch counters.

[Rome]

What's about Chains of Mephistopheles??
It is one Mana cheaper and makes a Wrench Mind with Dack Fayden :)

[Dia_Bot]

It still needs more spells. Explosives feels kind of slow. Would like to have a few more counters and spot removal. Would love to run pyroblast but I need the blue count high for pitch counters.

As much as I love the deck configuration and all it's interactions I don't think you should play as much graveyard dependant cards in the same deck. 3 Grim lavamancer, 2 snapcaster mage, 3 dig through time, 1 life from the loam, 4 punishing fire, 4 tarmogoyf = a total of 17! cards that get hurt bij graveyard removal. I would probably cut the 3 grim lavamancers and the 2 snapcaster mages.

[bruizar]

As much as I love the deck configuration and all it's interactions I don't think you should play as much graveyard dependant cards in the same deck. 3 Grim lavamancer, 2 snapcaster mage, 3 dig through time, 1 life from the loam, 4 punishing fire, 4 tarmogoyf = a total of 17! cards that get hurt bij graveyard removal. I would probably cut the 3 grim lavamancers and the 2 snapcaster mages.

Agreed! Still need to figure out with what to replace it.

[L-Luck]

I built this before Khans, but it's atleast a somewhat tested and working shell (which I mostly stole from the RUG Pyroloam Thread), maybe you can take away some insights from it. I think Abrupt Decay is necessary, because both RiP and Counterbalance are really, really annoying. The deck is surprisingly resilient to attacks on it's hand and manabase ,for a four color deck at the very least, but has a tough time answering huge haymakers like EtA. There are a lot of nice little interactions, e.g.:

Dack/Clique with Nothion Thief
Dack with PFire
Pyromancer with Probe/Cabal Therapy/PFire
Mox/Dack with Loam
Probe with Therapy
Basically everything with Intuition

4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Young Pyromancer
1 Notion Thief
1 Vendilion Clique

2 Dack Fayden
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
3 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Gitaxian Probe
2 Intuition

2 Abrupt Decay
3 Punishing Fire

2 Life from the Loam
2 Cabal Therapy

2 Mox Diamond
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
2 Wasteland
4 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Underground Sea
2 Volcanic Island
1 Tropical Island
1 Island
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Bayou
1 Badlands


SB: 2 Pithing Needle
SB: 1 Force of Will
SB: 2 Cabal Therapy
SB: 1 Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 Engineered Plague
SB: 1 Ancient Grudge
SB: 2 Slaughter Games
SB: 3 Pyroblast
SB: 1 Abrupt Decay

[Quizzlemanizzle]

http://imgur.com/qO3PHyX.png

It still needs more spells. Explosives feels kind of slow. Would like to have a few more counters and spot removal. Would love to run pyroblast but I need the blue count high for pitch counters.

Mox Diamond seems great in your list.

I don't like the Lavamancers at all and would not bother with Snapcaster and Tarmo.

Also if I went RUG Fayden I would play Liquimetal Coating and Ancient Grudge since the Coating combos with Fayden and Grudge and Fayden with Flashback from Grudge is value too.

[Memories of the Time]

I'm having fun with this list:

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Dack Fayden
4 Punishing Fire

2 Treasure Cruise
2 Dig Through Time

4 Force of Will

2 Liquimetal Coating

2 Notion Thief
2 Vendilion Clique

2 Life from the Loam
2 Toxic Deluge
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Engineered Explosives

22 Lands
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
2 Tropical Island
3 Volcanic Island
2 Underground Sea
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Polluted Delta
1 Academy Ruins
2 Wasteland

SB: 2 Submerge
SB: 2 Pithing Needle
SB: 3 Pyroblast
SB: 1 Flusterstorm
SB: 1 Toxic Deluge
SB: 3 Swan Song
SB: 2 Nihil Spellbomb
SB: 1 Misdirection (another thing to find)

Black is wonderful because of Toxic Deluge: keep the first turn, wrath board, menage with P.Fire and do terrific CA. This is a solid list without too much "style" like more LiquidMetal and Ancient grudge (very funny, through)... probably TNN is way better than Notion thief in these slots :tongue:

[apple713]

squee, goblin seems like a 1-2 of that can create huge advantage with dack.

[lambert101]

I have been brewing the following list. It is an attempt at a version I played at GP New Jersey which ultimately was poor against the treasure cruse UR Delver lists. It replaced the Dig through times with Dack Fayden and the main deck pyroclasm's with Punishing Fires.

4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
3 Dack Fayden
2 Jace, the Mindsculuptor
1 Slyvan Library
3 Punishing Fire
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Force
1 Spell Snare
2 Spell Pierce
4 Snapcaster Mage
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Batterskull
2 Engineered Explosives

4 Wasteland
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Island
1 Mountain
3 Volcanic Island
1 Tropical Island
2 Flooded Strand
4 Grove of the Burntwillows
1 Academy Ruins

Sideboard

2 Grafdigger’s Cage
1 Liquid Metal Coating
2 Pyroclasm
3 Krosan Grip
3 Pyroblast
2 Vendilion Clique
2 Pithing Needle


vs. Miracles
+ 3 Pyroblast
+ 3 Krosan Grip
+ 2 Pithing Needle
+ 2 Vendilion Clique
+ 1 Liquid Metal Coating
- 4 Lightning Bolt
- 1 Crucible of Worlds
- 4 Wasteland
- 2 Ponder

Vs RUG Delver
+ 3 Pyroblast
+ 1 Liquid Metal Coating
- 4 Force of Will

Vs. BUG Delver
+ 2 Vendilion Clique
+ 2 Pithing Needle
+ 1 Liquid Metal Coating
- 4 Force of Will
- 1 Ponder

Vs. UWR Delver
+ 3 Krosan Grip
+ 3 Pyroblast
- 4 Force of Will
- 2 Ponder

Vs. Shardless BUG
+ 1 Liquid Metal Coating
+ 2 Pyroclasm
+ 2 Vendilion Clique
+ 2 Pithing Needle
- 4 Force of Will
- 1 Spell Snare
- 2 Spell Pierce

Vs. Jund
+ 1 Liquid Metal Coating
+ 2 Pyroclasm
+ 2 Vendilion Clique
+ 2 Pithing Needle
- 4 Force of Will
- 1 Spell Snare
- 2 Spell Pierce

Vs. Esper stone blade
+ 3 Pyroblast
+ 3 Krosan Grip
+ 2 Pithing Needle
+ 2 Vendilion Clique
+ 1 Liquid Metal Coating
- 4 Lightning Bolt
- 4 Force of Will
- 3 Ponder


Vs. Sneak and Show
+ 3 Pyroblast
+ 3 Krosan Grip
+ 2 Pithing Needle
+ 2 Vendilion Clique
+ 1 Liquid Metal Coating
- 4 Lightning Bolt
- 1 Crucible of Worlds
- 4 Wasteland
- 2 Engineered Explosives

Vs. Reanimator/Dredge
+ 3 Pyroblast
+ 2 Vendilion Clique
+ 1 Liquid Metal Coating
+ 2 Grafdigger’s Cage
+ 2 Pyroclasm
- 1 Spell Snare
- 1 Crucible of Worlds
- 4 Wasteland
- 2 Jace the Mindsculptor
- 2 Ponder

Vs. Death and Taxes
+ 1 Liquid Metal Coating
+ 2 Pyroclasm
+ 2 Pithing Needle
+ 3 Krosan Grip
- 4 Force of Will
- 1 Spell Snare
- 2 Spell Pierce
- 1 Ponder

Vs. Maverick
+ 1 Liquid Metal Coating
+ 2 Pyroclasm
+ 2 Pithing Needle
+ 2 Grafdigger’s Cage
- 4 Force of Will
- 1 Spell Snare
- 2 Spell Pierce

Vs. Elves
+ 2 Pyroclasm
+ 2 Pithing Needle
+ 2 Grafdigger’s Cage
- 1 Spell Snare
- 2 Spell Pierce
- 2 Wasteland
- 1 Crucible

vs. Lands
- 4 Lightning Bolt
- 1 Spell Snare
+ 2 Pithing Needle
+ 1 Liquid Metal Coating
+ 2 Krosan Grip

[Fatal]

Interesting List,

Question why Liquid Metal Coating is in SB when you bring it in almost all MU ?

[HNana]

Hey all, just 3-0ed a small tourney here:
https://twitter.com/HBSTnipponbashi/status/669503502134042624

Fun deck, very slow. It's just a combination of a bunch of stuff that's fun. Dack + pfire is always fun. dack + liquimetal coating is great. Dack ultimate + liquimetal coating is "hey im gonna steal a permanent every turn". Dack + crucible is also just amazing value. Wasteland + crucible is great. EE is great for wiping the board. Academy ruins also puts in a lot of work. The deck is really fun. I tossed in TNN just because hey why not, it's TNN, the card is good, and it worked pretty well. I don't have answers to things like opponent's TNN, but i guess EE and pyroblasts hopefully will be enough. I'm still on the fence about the singleton JVP, and wonder if it'd be better as a TNN or something else.

Anyways, dack fayden is super fun, and dack + jace is just great.