[Podcast] Everyday Eternal 30: Delving into Previous Misgivings

[thecrav]

http://www.eternalcentral.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/EverydayEternalEpisode30.jpg
Link! (http://www.eternalcentral.com/everyday-eternal-podcast-episode-30-delving-into-previous-misgivings/)
iTunes link (https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/everyday-eternal/id661834191)
Feed link for non-Apple devices (http://www.eternalcentral.com/?feed=everydayeternal)


In episode 30 of Everyday Eternal Matt Pavlic (sdematt) talks with Bob Huang (akatsui) about Bob’s recent win at the StarCityGames Legacy Open in New Jersey with a UR Delver deck packed with Kahns of Tarkir cards, and how very wrong the ‘cast was in its initial evaluation of those cards. Sean O’Brien (nedleeds) also briefly joins in towards the end to talk a bit of Vintage. This will be followed up with a preview of Eternal Weekend coming soon!

Timestamps:

0:00:49 Bob Huang: First place at #SCGNJ with UR Delver with Treasure Cruise and Monastery Swiftspear
0:07:42 Combating Treasure Cruise
0:11:08 Treasure Cruise and Dig through Time in non-Delver decks
0:15:55 How does this affect non-blue decks?
0:23:55 A bit more on attacking Treasure Cruise – This is not the next Mental Misstep!
0:30:25 New deck naming conventions
0:36:33 What cards are deprecated by these delve-based cards?
0:42:07 Less played decks that become better
0:48:33 Why Matt loves Gaddock Teeg
0:54:15 Vintage, and what Sean is going to play at Vintage Champs
0:57:35 Matt started playing Power
1:02:40 Terranova vs. other Workshop decks
1:04:25 Short Metagame preview for Vintage Champs
1:07:35 Wrap up
Total runtime: 1:12:26

Links:
The Most Dangerous Cards in Khans of Tarkir, by Carsten Kotter (http://www.starcitygames.com/article/29337_The-Most-Dangerous-Cards-In-Khans-Of-Tarkir.html)
Vintage Super League Round 6 Steve Menendian vs. Luis Scott-Vargas (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6plGRFD2Zfk&t=2m20s)
The Mana Drain Magic Online Open - Oct 19 (http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=46780.0)

UR Delver Cruise, by Bob Huang - 1st Place SCG Legacy Open New Jersey
Business (43)
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Chain Lightning
2 Forked Bolt
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Treasure Cruise
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Young Pyromancer

Mana Sources (17)
4 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Flooded Strand
4 Volcanic Island
2 Island
1 Mountain

Sideboard (15)
2 Grafdigger’s Cage
1 Null Rod
2 Pithing Needle
2 Grim Lavamancer
2 Blood Moon
2 Sulfuric Vortex
3 Pyroblast
1 Smash to Smithereens

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sample Decks:

RUG Mandrills, sample decklist
Business (43)
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
3 Spell Snare
2 Spell Pierce
4 Stifle
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Fire // Ice
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Hooting Mandrills

Mana Sources (18)
4 Wasteland
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Wooded Foothills
3 Tropical Island
3 Volcanic Island

Sideboard (15)
2 Cursed Totem
1 Krosan Grip
2 Submerge
1 Null Rod
2 Rough // Tumble
2 Grafdigger’s Cage
1 Ancient Grudge
3 Red Elemental Blast
1 Sylvan Library

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Legacy Tezzerator, sample decklist
Business (33)
4 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
2 Dack Fayden
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Force of Will
2 Transmute Artifact
1 The Abyss
1 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Baleful Strix
2 Academy Ruins
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Engineered Explosives
3 Thopter Foundry
1 Sword of the Meek
1 Crucible of Worlds

Mana Sources (28)
4 Mox Diamond
2 Dimir Signet
3 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island
4 Polluted Delta
2 Flooded Strand
2 Island
1 Swamp
4 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors
3 Wasteland

Sideboard (15)
1 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Goblin Welder
2 Toxic Deluge
1 Misdirection
2 Lodestone Golem
1 Helm of Obedience
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Engineered Plague

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

GW Death and Taxes, sample decklist
Business (35)
4 Mother of Runes
4 AEther Vial
2 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Sylvan Library
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Serra Avenger
3 Spirit of the Labyrinth
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa’s Jitte
3 Flickerwisp
1 Batterskull

Mana Sources (23)
4 Rishadan Port
4 Wasteland
3 Karakas
4 Windswept Heath
3 Plains
3 Savannah
2 Cavern of Souls

Sideboard (15)
3 Gaddock Teeg
2 Rest in Peace
1 Enlightened Tutor
2 Grafdigger’s Cage
2 Pithing Needle
1 Ratchet Bomb
2 Krosan Grip
2 Open

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Jund, sample decklist
Business (38)
4 Thoughtseize
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Red Elemental Blast
2 Sylvan Library
3 Punishing Fire
3 Lightning Bolt
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Koth of the Hammer
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Dark Confidant
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Bloodbraid Elf

Mana Sources (23)
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
3 Bayou
1 Taiga
2 Badlands
3 Wasteland
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Wooded Foothills
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Forest
1 Swamp

Sideboard (15)
2 Slaughter Games
2 Chains of Mephistopheles
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Krosan Grip
3 Red Elemental Blast
2 Duress
2 Golgari Charm
2 Nihil Spellbomb

[Barook]

It's interesting that you got the same idea of picking up green for D&T. Discussion on that started a few days in the Salvation D&T thread, too, mainly because Miracles is everywhere - he's a house against them - and the D&T's disastrous Elves match-up needs to be addressed somehow.

I do see various issues with the list, though. You don't run a full set of Thalia and Revoker which are core cards for D&T. While 7 green sources are fine for supporting 3 Teegs only, adding even more green cards get hairy. The manabase is also weakened since you open up yourself to non-basic hate too much. Cavern also doesn't fit the build. Library is a strong card, but I think it's greedy to run it here.

I'm going to test the following list, results pending:

TNT - Teeg 'N 'Taxes

5 Plains
4 Flooded Strand
2 Savannah
3 Karakas
1 Horizon Canopy
4 Rishadan Port
4 Wasteland

4 Mother of Runes
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Gaddock Teeg
2 Serra Avenger
4 Flickerwisp
2 Mirran Crusader

4 Swords to Plowshares
4 AEther Vial
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Batterskull


2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Rest in Peace
2 Enlightened Tutor
1 Manriki-Gusari
1 Pithing Needle
1 Ratchet Bomb
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Council's Judgment
1 Circle of Protection: Red
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Spirit of the Labyrinth

The SB might see some changes, though, depending on how the splash works.

[SevenInTheQueue]

Matt (relentlessly) pitching Dega as an archetype is starting feel like late night Knife-Set infomercial re-runs.

"Cuts through Delver, Miracles, Elves, and much more!"

[nedleeds]

Choke.

[sdematt]

Matt (relentlessly) pitching Dega as an archetype is starting feel like late night Knife-Set infomercial re-runs.

"Cuts through Delver, Miracles, Elves, and much more!"

:P

[thecrav]

Matt (relentlessly) pitching Dega as an archetype is starting feel like late night Knife-Set infomercial re-runs.

"Cuts through Delver, Miracles, Elves, and much more!"

But wait, there's more. If you play Dega this weekend, you'll also receive the satisfaction of being able to post anti-brainstorm rants on your favorite forums!

[DLifshitz]

GW Death and Taxes, sample decklist

2 Sylvan Library
3 Spirit of the Labyrinth


Spirit hoses your own Sylvan Library, too.

IMVHO in order to splash green, you would either have to replace some or all of the Ports with fetchlands, Horizon Canopy and/or Savannah, or limit the splash to creatures which can be vial'd in. Just because it's a very light splash doesn't mean that only 7 green sources (I'm not counting Cavern of Souls) will be enough.

[T-101]

Good episode!

I am hot on Teeg's heels as well, I think its in a great spot right now, and that is a good point about running 3 Teegs 2 GSZ vs. 1 Teeg 4 GSZ.

About the Clan names... it WAS pretty ham-fisted how Star City was pushing them down everyone's throats a couple weeks ago. However, I think eventually everyone will just use the Clan names, similar to how most people use Shard names for everything these days. Jund is the most prevalent, being everywhere in Modern, and a known deck in Legacy. Nobody bats an eye when you say Grixis Control, or Esper Delver. When Bant does rear it's head, people know exactly what the color combination is. Naya never really did stick as well, because the deck was already called Zoo, but the word, 'Naya' is still known by most players.

I agree that the names are a bit wonkier this time around, but I imagine that over time, everyone will be using them. It'll take a while for me to break BUG and RUG, but I actually like Jeskai and Mardu. I liked Team Italia, but in my years of using it, only one person at a tournament knew Italia. Yeah, I high-fived that guy. For some reason, Junk is already in the common Magic lingo, and Abzan is pretty horrid, so I think Junk may stay Junk, but in 18 months, I'll bet everyone uses the Clan names.

Shard and Clan names just make talking about colors easier, and so they will stick.

[Barook]

Spirit hoses your own Sylvan Library, too.

IMVHO in order to splash green, you would either have to replace some or all of the Ports with fetchlands, Horizon Canopy and/or Savannah, or limit the splash to creatures which can be vial'd in. Just because it's a very light splash doesn't mean that only 7 green sources (I'm not counting Cavern of Souls) will be enough.
Cutting Ports is one of the deadly sins that gets you lynched by D&T players. DO NOT CUT PORTS.

For the current 3 Teeg configuration I'm currently testing post-board, 7 green sources are the minimum requirement to make the whole thing work. Vial certainly smooths out the whole thing, too. I wouldn't consider going deeper into green since other cards either clash with the rest of the deck or add nothing of value that other white cards can't do.


Good episode!

I am hot on Teeg's heels as well, I think its in a great spot right now, and that is a good point about running 3 Teegs 2 GSZ vs. 1 Teeg 4 GSZ.

About the Clan names... it WAS pretty ham-fisted how Star City was pushing them down everyone's throats a couple weeks ago. However, I think eventually everyone will just use the Clan names, similar to how most people use Shard names for everything these days. Jund is the most prevalent, being everywhere in Modern, and a known deck in Legacy. Nobody bats an eye when you say Grixis Control, or Esper Delver. When Bant does rear it's head, people know exactly what the color combination is. Naya never really did stick as well, because the deck was already called Zoo, but the word, 'Naya' is still known by most players.

I agree that the names are a bit wonkier this time around, but I imagine that over time, everyone will be using them. It'll take a while for me to break BUG and RUG, but I actually like Jeskai and Mardu. I liked Team Italia, but in my years of using it, only one person at a tournament knew Italia. Yeah, I high-fived that guy. For some reason, Junk is already in the common Magic lingo, and Abzan is pretty horrid, so I think Junk may stay Junk, but in 18 months, I'll bet everyone uses the Clan names.

Shard and Clan names just make talking about colors easier, and so they will stick.
I wouldn't be suprised if Jetski becomes a thing because Jeskai is horrible. Abzan is pretty weird to pronounce. Azban simply flows better, but they probably didn't want to make it sound like Assban.

[Undomian]

I agree that Tezzeret (or really any Chalice deck) is probably a strong choice going forward, but that some adjustments are needed to combat the BUG matchup. That was already kind of iffy, and now they have the capacity to draw into more Abrupt Decay more often. For that purpose, I've adopted Blood Moon into the SB over Welder, and that has been testing fairly well. I think I still prefer Tezzeret over something more all-in on Chalice/Moon like Dragon Stompy (or is it Goblin Stompy now?) though because of the option to play the game without those cards and still have a reasonable chance at winning. We also get to play Force of Will, which is nice.

[ESG]

Matt: "So I think this leaves most non-blue decks a little bit behind."

Yep.

[sdematt]

I like to say true things, yes.

You coming up for the Classic, ESG?

-Matt

[ESG]

Possibly. Can you post the details somewhere? I'm sure it's on Facebook, but it probably should be here and/or on Northwest Magic. If I go, there's a 90 percent chance I will be running Treasure Cruise. I hope you get to actually play this time instead of just watching us have all the fun.

Also, good podcast.

Edit: Just found it on the venue's website. I'm going to repost it on NW Magic so you get additional publicity.

[lyracian]

Yeah, I high-fived that guy. For some reason, Junk is already in the common Magic lingo, and Abzan is pretty horrid, so I think Junk may stay Junk, but in 18 months, I'll bet everyone uses the Clan names.
I hope not. However I wrote a little ditty to help remember the Clan names.
(It might not be quite so good if you do not know British slang)

The Patriot was a Jessie while fighting the Sultan of BUG.
Timmy The Turk was playing on the Rug when
Dega had a mardy as no-one could remember her name.
The Rock got an ASBO for kicking people in the Junk!

[Lemnear]

I'm going to test the following list, results pending:

TNT - Teeg 'N 'Taxes

5 Plains
4 Flooded Strand
2 Savannah
3 Karakas
1 Horizon Canopy
4 Rishadan Port
4 Wasteland

4 Mother of Runes
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Gaddock Teeg
2 Serra Avenger
4 Flickerwisp
2 Mirran Crusader

4 Swords to Plowshares
4 AEther Vial
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Batterskull


2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Rest in Peace
2 Enlightened Tutor
1 Manriki-Gusari
1 Pithing Needle
1 Ratchet Bomb
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Council's Judgment
1 Circle of Protection: Red
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Spirit of the Labyrinth

The SB might see some changes, though, depending on how the splash works.

Now you replace Avenger, Crusader and Flickerwisp with KotR & GSZ and you're back to Maverick which was considered a bad deck due to S&T?!

[Tylert]

Now you replace Avenger, Crusader and Flickerwisp with KotR & GSZ and you're back to Maverick which was considered a bad deck due to S&T?!

Maverick does not play 4 revoker + 3 Karakas + 4 thalia + 4 rishadan ports main.
The denial plan + karakas for SHow and tell and Revoker for sneak attack makes D&T a little better than maverick against S&T. Teeg in this lists is used in the 2 flex spots of D&T (Which can either be mindsencor / more crusader / Mangara / etc...).

To be honest, i'm not sure the green splash is a good idea. What we will gain against treasure cruise, we will loose it probably because of the shaky manabase...
Time will tell.

[Barook]

Now you replace Avenger, Crusader and Flickerwisp with KotR & GSZ and you're back to Maverick which was considered a bad deck due to S&T?!
And why would you do that? Flickerwisp is a core card of D&T. I would never go below 4, considering how many games it wins.

GSZ is bad without targets and clashes with Vial. KotR stopped being a good beather when DRS, AD and RiP started to hose the shit out of it.

Teeg might be very good, depending on how the testing goes. But there's no need to go deeper into green since it doesn't offer anything of value besides Teeg. There's a reason why D&T is a DTB while Maverick is dead.

I don't get why people always want to open the floodgates when somebody suggests a splash.

[lyracian]

Now you replace Avenger, Crusader and Flickerwisp with KotR & GSZ and you're back to Maverick which was considered a bad deck due to S&T?!
That is where Maverick came from; splashing Green into D&T.

Is the last card in the Green n Taxes sideboard intended to be "Open the Vaults"?
I like RUG Mandrills and will give that a spin.
Having not played your Jund Deck I may be wrong but Koth with only 3 Mountains (all which can be wasted) seems weak?

I usually listen to the podcast either at work or while walking their however if you did do a video commentary of playing Legacy I would aim to find the time to watch it. The same goes for if you did commentary over the top of SCG casting.

[Megadeus]

My thought on RUG Mandrils is that replacing goose seems meh. The reason goose was awesome was his ability to not get hit by spot removal. I know mandrils doesn't die to bolt or decay, but STP is still a highly played card.

[mini1337s]

Doesn't Rest In Peace hose the delve plan? I feel like Helm combo Miracles is poised to be a real meta game predator should the new delve cards continue to see a lot of play.

[Lord_Mcdonalds]

My thought on RUG Mandrils is that replacing goose seems meh. The reason goose was awesome was his ability to not get hit by spot removal. I know mandrils doesn't die to bolt or decay, but STP is still a highly played card.

He also sometimes kills goyf whereas goose usually never does

[Purgatory]

Thanks so much for the episode! Very interesting content.

[Phelix]

Top level content, thanks

[Higgs]

Looking forward to the eternal weekend preview cast.

As for feedback:
+ Go for the streaming matches.
- Don't do the SCG replay commentary. Without watching the board state at the same time it gets quite boring and I drift away.

[thecrav]

On the subject of streaming, I've put up a survey at http://goo.gl/forms/gHizaivLOf . If anyone here would be potentially interested in watching us stream, please give us your feedback via that survey regarding what you'd like to see!

[sdematt]

On the subject of streaming, I've put up a survey at http://goo.gl/forms/gHizaivLOf . If anyone here would be potentially interested in watching us stream, please give us your feedback via that survey regarding what you'd like to see!

Streaming is going to be awesome. I'll just sitting there shouting good and bad advice for no reason.

-Matt

[BBG|Scott-Spain]

This was probably the best episode I've heard so far. Well-paced, very informative, and entertaining. Good job.

[sdematt]

This was probably the best episode I've heard so far. Well-paced, very informative, and entertaining. Good job.

Thanks! :)

-Matt

[Richard Cheese]

On the subject of streaming, I've put up a survey at http://goo.gl/forms/gHizaivLOf . If anyone here would be potentially interested in watching us stream, please give us your feedback via that survey regarding what you'd like to see!

Not huge on streaming personally...unless you can set up "Twitch Plays MTGO". That I would watch.

[ironclad8690]

Don't really care 1 way or another for the streaming aspect, but a series of "V.S" videos would be awesome, similarly to how SCG does their VS series with BBD and Brad Nelson and so on. That way we can see some evidence supporting the claims made on the cast (not that I don't believe them, but theory and practice turn out quite differently sometimes).

[starfox444]

Just filled out the survey, my answers were a bit skewed due to living in Australia so it is very hard for me to catch live streams. Here's hoping some recorded content comes out.

[ween]

Likewise.
Though, VODs are perfectly acceptable in that regard. I watch all the VSL and Julian's stream via VODs currently.

Only complaint about this podcast was Seans volume compared to everyone else. I had you guys turned up in the car to hear over road noise and then Sean nearly destroyed my eardrums :P

[Zombie]

Don't really care 1 way or another for the streaming aspect, but a series of "V.S" videos would be awesome, similarly to how SCG does their VS series with BBD and Brad Nelson and so on. That way we can see some evidence supporting the claims made on the cast (not that I don't believe them, but theory and practice turn out quite differently sometimes).

OMG yes. VS VODs where players can explain their moves without hearing each other so they don't have to do the "I want to use THIS and then THIS" type of stuff and just talk freely. No worries about the chat (which seems to kill at least Julian's level of play), just the game and outlining your lines of play.

[Zombie]

Speaking of VS. VODs. I want a long set between Julian on a generic Elves build and a competent LED Dredge pilot. He keeps saying the matchup is fine but I don't see how. I want that set to happen so either I can learn and eat crow or he has to admit he's wrong >:) ^__^

[Finn]

I bet you both are correct.

My guess is that it is fine for Julian because he is "The Man!" with Elves. For mere mortals it is probably much less winnable. Eons ago there was a meme here that "Nobody but David Gearhart could play Solidarity" and to some significant extent it was true. At his best he could eke out games that others would have not seen the path for. I faced him online twice and both times sucked for me. Even my own experiences with D+T have made it clear to me that there are some matchups where intimate knowledge pays big dividends. There are some matchups that I can't believe others claim are hard. It would be crazy to think that this is not a significant factor when facing Julian on Elves.