Deck ideas - old frame only

[Teluin]

Hey guys,

about a year ago I started a site about a format I call Ancient. Essentially, it only allows cards that were printed in the old frames. Recently, I decided that I want to start adding decks to the site to show people how much variety and open design space there is in the format. The way I see it, Legacy wasn't really its own format before 2004, and there's a lot of potential for deck design in there. It's also nostalgia for me, as the cards back then were more about being unique and creatures were more balanced and interesting.

TL;DR - looking for decks to write about on the site.

Old decks, re-vamped versions of current decks, and even just deck ideas you think would be neat that I can brew and write about. I've written a few already, and have several more in the works or to be written. They're not super in-depth, as I just want to talk a bit about the deck and show an example.

Thanks!

[Teluin]

And if you want to visit the site, it's: http://ancientmtg.blogspot.ca/

Feel free to post ideas, cards and even decks of your own or send me a PM.

Thanks again.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

Are the three Portals allowed?

I love the idea. I seriously dislike the new frame, because it's not a magical scroll anymore. Even back in pre-8thEd times the frame was getting a bit different over time (compare the beta cards with those of say APO), but it still had a fantasy look and once again, it reminded a scroll or a bookpage. Today's frame... Bah, ok, enough on this matter.

4 Birds of Paradise
3 Mother of Runes
3 Weathered Wayfarer
4 Werebear
4 Terravore
3 Mystic Enforcer
3 Exalted Angel
2 Masticore

4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Reprisal
3 Armageddon
2 Sylvan Library
1 Armadillo Cloak
1 Aura Shards

4 Savannah
3 Forest
3 Plains
4 Windswept Heath
2 Brushland
3 Secluded Steppe
3 Tranquil Thicket

This is what I got built for casual. You may add some Wastelands and Thermokarst (even Ice Storm) instead of some more crappy choices like Reprisal or Brushland, though I'd be careful with colored mana requirements. I don't need those cards for my long-dead-but-soon-to-be-revived Kitchen Table Society, and the three Geddons ar already far too much LD for casual setting. But hey, I'm trying to win with Werebears...


I cannot decide what should I build for ICE-5th-WTH Type II Reenactment.

This one is more elegant and reliable:

4 Fyndhorn Elves
4 Quirion Ranger
4 River Boa
3 Wall of Roots
3 Jolrael's Centaur
4 Maro
4 Serrated Biskelion

4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Armageddon
2 Sylvan Library
1 Disenchant

10 Forest
6 Plains
4 Brushland
4 Thawing Glaciers


This one is more flexible and funny:

4 Birds of Paradise
4 Quirion Ranger
2 Granger Guildmage
4 River Boa
3 Karoo Meerkat
3 Whirling Dervish
3 Jolrael's Centaur
1 Man-o'-war
3 Ophidian
3 Maro

2 Swords to Plowshares
1 Disenchant
4 Incinerate
1 Terror
1 Armageddon
3 Winter Orb

10 Forest
3 City of Brass
3 Undiscovered Paradise
2 Gemstone Mine


:cool:

[Higgs]

This makes my day. I would totally play this format (too poor to play proper Old School with black border and love the Urza's block anyways). But let me get this straight, this basically leaves us with Extended circa 2003 right?

Edit: Looking at the banlist, there's too much fun stuff that's banned which roamed free back in the old Extended. I'd say it could use a shake up.

[Teluin]

@ Bed Deck Palyer Yep, the Three Portals are allowed. Nice on the other Thresh deck. The first deck I wrote about was RUG Thresh - I do plan on writing about other variants later on but for now am trying to write about different archetypes to show the diversity of the format.

@ Higgs it's note quite 2002 Extended as that didn't allow certain cards from the sets pre-Tempest. As for the Banned List - it's a work in progress as I haven't gotten enough feedback/playing done yet. As it stands, I just took the Legacy list and removed Survival of the Fittest, which went from good to broken due to WotC's new breed of creatures. I'm sure there are other cards that can be removed, and any feedback/suggestions are welcome.

[Higgs]

Definitely a very interesting format to explore, kudos! I don't think I would be able to give you valuable feedback on the banlist as I don't think I'm a good enough player to be able to evaluate these things wholistically. I just know the stuff that I'd love to play with :) Necro, pay 10 life, go!

[Pastorofmuppets]

Survival of the Fittest, which went from good to broken due to WotC's new breed of creatures.
What creatures other than Bloodghast and Vengevine broke Survival? Has anything else been released since then?

Personally, I'd love to see some Ancient EDH. No Orolorobolorololo, Hexproof/Indestructible Voltron, or autopilot dudes like Nekuzar ruining my Christmas? I'll take twenty.

[KIP_NZ]

My EDH deck meets your requirements http://deckbox.org/sets/681136 It doesn't really have a win con but it's sure fun to play with this old stuff. Note every card that can be is English and from beta or original printing. However duals are FBB and currently the Imperial Seal is T-Chinese till I get an English one.

[Teluin]

What creatures other than Bloodghast and Vengevine broke Survival? Has anything else been released since then?

None that I'm aware of, but they're both new printings. The general power level of creatures, combined with Survival's recursive tutoring, was also what I was refering to though.

[Pastorofmuppets]

None that I'm aware of, but they're both new printings. The general power level of creatures, combined with Survival's recursive tutoring, was also what I was refering to though.

Wizards actually put a hit out on survival because they hate fun. They even waited for RoE sales to die down before doing it. Bloodghast/Survival alone probably wouldn't even make it in the current Legacy metagame. So an entire archetype got banned out of the format because of one degenerate mythic.

[onehitpoint]

Greetings,

I'm interested in this project, as i stopped playing mtg regularly around 2003...
I still have a few unpowered decks for casual fun, built in this reverse Modern style.
Here are a couple of them, to start things off.

EVA GREEN

4x Nantuko Shade
4x Dauthi Slayer
4x Hypnotic Specter
4x Erhnam Djinn

4x Dark Ritual
4x Duress
3x Hymn to Tourach
3x Smother
4x Paralyze
2x Naturalize
3x Phyrexian Arena

9x Swamp
4x Tainted Wood
4x Llanowar Wastes
4x Wasteland

Apart from dual and fetch lands, what would you recommend for this deck?
I am always unsure on what are the optimal numbers for removal, discard, naturalize...

SLIGH

4x Jackal Pup
4x Mogg Fanatic
4x Goblin Patrol
3x Grim Lavamancer
4x Ball Lightning

4x Lightning Bolt
4x Seal of Fire
4x Incinerate
4x Flame Rift
3x Sulfuric Vortex
4x Fireblast

18x Mountain

Fetchlands would help thin the deck during play and fuel the lavamancers.
Seal of Fire could be upgraded to Chain Lightning...
What else can be optimized here?

[onehitpoint]

Here's another one, inspired by the old counter hammer / phoenix decks...

COUNTER PHOENIX

2x Shard Phoenix
2x Squee, Goblin Nabob
1x Masticore

4x Counterspell
3x Mana Leak
3x Forbid
2x Dissipate
2x Dismiss
1x Suffocating Blast
4x Brainstorm
3x Prophetic Bolt
4x Incinerate
2x Hammer of Bogardan
3x Nevinyrral's Disk

10x Island
6x Mountain
4x Shivan Reef
4x Thawing Glaciers

[Teluin]

Greetings,

I'm interested in this project, as i stopped playing mtg regularly around 2003...
I still have a few unpowered decks for casual fun, built in this reverse Modern style.
Here are a couple of them, to start things off.

EVA GREEN

deck

Apart from dual and fetch lands, what would you recommend for this deck?
I am always unsure on what are the optimal numbers for removal, discard, naturalize...

I'd go 4 Hymn. The card's amazing, especially in the early game so you want to try and get it in your opening hand whenever you can. I'd probably 4-of Phyrexian Arena but your number could be the right one. Not sure I'd main deck any Naturalize, as a lot of decks don't use artifacts or enchantments but that's more a meta call for your area. Smother's a decent card, but I'm trying to think of how many relevant creatures it can destroy. I'd consider some other form of creature removal.

SLIGH

deck

Fetchlands would help thin the deck during play and fuel the lavamancers.
Seal of Fire could be upgraded to Chain Lightning...
What else can be optimized here?

Not a huge fan of Goglin Patrol as it eats too much mana and you want to win fast. I'd do 4 Lavamancer if you can get fetchlands. Chain Lightnings are awesome/Bolts 5-8 so I'd use those if you can.

Keep brewing man, awesome stuff.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

Although Erhnam is nice, Spiritmonger is much more powerful. Also, play 4 Hymns.

[onehitpoint]

@ Teluin

Concerning Goblin Patrol, I never had any major problem with the card, as the first 2 turns are usually spent casting 1 mana cost creatures.
Are there any alternatives...? I was never confortable with the turncoat Goblin Cadets.

@ Teluin and Bed Decks Palyer

For the black deck, 4x Hymn to Tourach are indeed better for disruption.
I chose Erhnam Djinn over Spiritmonger because they can be played faster, and the mana base is already a bit tight (17 lands, if we consider Wasteland as disruption).
I could try 3x Spiritmonger plus an extra Swamp.


Here is another one for your perusal, that I never got quite right.

GREEN LAND DESTRUCTION

4x Llanowar Elves
4x Fyndhorn Elves
4x Call of the Herd
3x Argothian Wurm
1x Masticore
4x Beast Attack

4x Thermokarst
4x Winter's Grasp
4x Creeping Mold
3x Tangle Wire
1x Icy Manipulator
2x Stunted Growth
2x Sylvan Library

16x Forest
1x Pendelhaven
3x Treetop Village


I started playing this with Stampeding Wildebeests and Wall of Blossoms, but it was a clumsy combo.
4x Argothian Wurm are too much, and they need to be played carefully.
4x Icy Manipulator and Stunted Growth are also overkill. Used to sit in the hand for a long time unused.
I never got to try Tangle Wire... Anyone here has experience with the card...?

We could also cut a few Creeping Mold for Ice Storm, to increase the odds of a second turn land destruction spell.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

@ Teluin and Bed Decks Palyer

For the black deck, 4x Hymn to Tourach are indeed better for disruption.
I chose Erhnam Djinn over Spiritmonger because they can be played faster, and the mana base is already a bit tight (17 lands, if we consider Wasteland as disruption).
I could try 3x Spiritmonger plus an extra Swamp.


Thing is that Erhnam/Spiritmonger is your finisher and as such, it should be as brutal as possible. A "mere" 4/5 can be infi-blocked a bit easier (hello Wall of Roots!) and djinn's drawback is in fact a bit dangerous. But yeah, what good comes from a Spiritmonger that sits in your hand... Also, there's Grinning Demon, too.

On the topic of GB LD:
I'm a great fan of Wildebeests, so you need to play them! :)
Also, I guess you're right about Argo Wurm...

[onehitpoint]

Because Armageddons are always fun...

ENFORCER-GEDDON

4x Birds of Paradise
4x Werebear
4x Jolrael's Centaur
2x Terravore
3x Mystic Enforcer
1x Lhurgoyf
1x Exalted Angel
1x Multani, Maro-Sorcerer

4x Swords to Plowshares
2x Disenchant
2x Eladamri's Call
2x Sylvan Library
3x Armageddon
2x Wrath of God
1x Cataclysm

7x Plains
9x Forest
4x Brushland
4x Elfhame Palace


Potential problems:
Doesn't have a "big" 4 cost creature, until you fire off your first geddon / wrath
Might need some sort of artifact mana rock to help keeeping the mana base intact...?

[Bed Decks Palyer]

Because Armageddons are always fun...

ENFORCER-GEDDON

4x Birds of Paradise
4x Werebear
4x Jolrael's Centaur
2x Terravore
3x Mystic Enforcer
1x Lhurgoyf
1x Exalted Angel
1x Multani, Maro-Sorcerer

4x Swords to Plowshares
2x Disenchant
2x Eladamri's Call
2x Sylvan Library
3x Armageddon
2x Wrath of God
1x Cataclysm

7x Plains
9x Forest
4x Brushland
4x Elfhame Palace


Potential problems:
Doesn't have a "big" 4 cost creature, until you fire off your first geddon / wrath
Might need some sort of artifact mana rock to help keeeping the mana base intact...?

This is something I thought about when I was deciding what shoul I build for the necromancy party called "bring your old friends to your old kitchen table".
I like how it's a budget build. But I see few problems:

Note that Terravore is pretty unreliable and barring some opposing fetchlands or w/e, you cannot play it pre-Geddon. Cycling lands?
You got only two (only two!) shuffle effect for Sylvan Library. I'd try to squeeze in some (low budget) fetchlands. Even Grasslands or Krosan Verge might be good, just be careful with the numbers of cipt lands.
The other possibility is good old Land Tax, Tithe, Rampant Growth and friends, Weathered Wayfarer, of course.
I'm not sure if you pack enough removal, and namely any BoP.dec might be annoying. With Call already in deck, you might try something like Triskelion.

[onehitpoint]

Good ideas Bed Decks Palyer

How could I forget about the Mirage fetchlands. They are perfect for this...

I feel that Krosan Verge is a bit on the slow side. Enters tapped and requires additional mana to fetch. The Mirage ones are imediately online on the second turn, just like the Elfhame Palaces, but help fuel the Terravores, Enforcers, and Library. :)

edit:
What if we made the following changes, to help defend against early rushes, and improve the Call package...?

-1 Werebear
-4 Jolrael's Centaur

+3 Wall Of Roots
+1 Eladamri's Call
+1 Masticore

Isn't Triskelion slow at 6 cmc..?

[Teluin]

Good call on the 'geddon deck. Going to write about it. Should be posting a couple more on the site in the next couple of days.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

Good ideas Bed Decks Palyer

How could I forget about the Mirage fetchlands. They are perfect for this...

I feel that Krosan Verge is a bit on the slow side. Enters tapped and requires additional mana to fetch. The Mirage ones are imediately online on the second turn, just like the Elfhame Palaces, but help fuel the Terravores, Enforcers, and Library. :)
Yep, Verge is probably too slow. I had one to search it by WWF and ramp post Geddon, but as it needs two more mana (say manadude and a land from hand?) it's too dependant on already fine game state. Its more of an EDH card.
Elfhame Palace gives you both W or G, something that fetch->basic cannot do. Unless you plan to add Savannah (which might be out of ordinary people's budget), you might keep some amount of cheap wannabeduals. Idk, this depends on color requirments of deck.
Also, consider the cycling lands, they're not super-duper ultra-trooper without Loam, yet they still offer some flexibility: they're either manasource, random topdeck or Not Exactly Giant Growth.



Good call on the 'geddon deck. Going to write about it. Should be posting a couple more on the site in the next couple of days.
Lovely!


edit: I just realized your edit... :smile:

edit:
What if we made the following changes, to help defend against early rushes, and improve the Call package...?

-1 Werebear
-4 Jolrael's Centaur

+3 Wall Of Roots
+1 Eladamri's Call
+1 Masticore

Isn't Triskelion slow at 6 cmc..?
I wouldn't cut Werebear, you got no other creature that's both manadude and goyf-like beater: at cmc2 it's both acceleration and also fine pre-Geddon play that may become a huge threat as soon as turn3.
Wall of Roots is fine card to stop the early rushes. If you'd play the three of them, you should be fine with one less Werebear. Thing is that walls are really bad at closing the games, which is why bear might be better. But you got Call to find some finisher.
Masticore is fine, even as a one-of its not that hard to find one with Call. Otoh, it might need some CA tool, even anything as dirty as Land Tax or Weathered Wayfarer. You play none such an engine, so my thoughts were on Triskelion. There's nice interaction between Serrated Biskelion and Quirion Ranger, when you might distribute one (or more, depending on how many QR do you have) -1/-1 counters than otherwise possible, but this is more appropriate for a Mirage-block pile or Stupid Green Deck.
I'm not even trying to sound pompous, but I still think that my version of GW Creaturegeddon is the best, at least speaking of casual setting, where there's little to no need to a) fight combo, b) fight graveyard hate, c) fight blue control and d) play Wastelands. I even went a bit further with cipt lands and play simply the sets of cycling lands. I don't really care of a turn1-2 plays, I may simply wait a turn or so with my BoPs, WWFs and bear, if that means that I lose no life to Brushland and I have bit more cycling lands to feed the gy and Vore. also, there's something about the playsets-only structure that makes me happy, and the fact that there's a minitheme of creature protection makes me bit more calm about my chances for win.
The list for reference once again:

4 Birds of Paradise
3 Mother of Runes
3 Weathered Wayfarer
4 Werebear
4 Terravore
3 Mystic Enforcer
3 Exalted Angel
2 Masticore

4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Reprisal
3 Armageddon
2 Sylvan Library
1 Armadillo Cloak
1 Aura Shards

4 Savannah
3 Forest
3 Plains
4 Windswept Heath
4 Secluded Steppe
4 Tranquil Thicket

It's definitely visible this one is about consistency. Eladamri's Call fueled deck (or even some Survival based GW) might use some more specific targets (without the need to become unreliable pile of nonsense or some EDH-like monstrosity), maybe even centered around the whle Creatures-and-LD tactic with cards like Benalish Emissary, Cartographer and fetches plus Waste/Strip/Bowl, etc.
But maybe it's too far stretching, and the simple plan of lay down a dude, geddon the lands is enough to win.
Of course, this all depends on what is allowed both B&R-wise and locally... which is in fact the same, as Ancient, Contramodern, Retro Magic, however you call it, is a casual format without any central committee.

[onehitpoint]

I agree, your version seems more robust.

I noticed that the list on the first post lacks the Rock and PT Junk decks. Those were popular back then in Extended.

Concerning white weenie decks for the project...

"WHITE" WEENIE, TAX RACK

3x Mother of Runes
3x Silver Knight
2x White Knight
3x Soltari Priest
2x Soltari Monk
2x Spectral Lynx
3x Phyrexian War Beast

4x Lightning Bolt
3x Fire // Ice
3x Vindicate
2x Firestorm

3x Empyrial Armor
4x Land Tax
3x Scroll Rack
4x Mox Diamond

10x Plains
2x Undiscovered Paradise
4x City of Brass

More versatile that a straight up pure white aggro build. The multicolor theme also allows us to easily implement Duress, Meddling Mage, Gerrard's Verdict, Armadillo Cloak, ...

True Believer might have potential as well.

Phyrexian War Beast or Exalted Angel...?

[Bed Decks Palyer]

Phyrexian War Beast is to dangerous, imho. It's nearly unplayable without MoR and contrary to say Phyrexian Negator - a similarly dangerous creature with cmc3 and high stats -, it's not fast enough to warrant its inclusion even against combo. I'd try the Angels or maybe even True Believer, Glowrider or Paladin en-Vec.
Also: with 4x Land Tax and several red spells, I'd definitely play one Mountain. Arabian Nights, preferably...

[Bed Decks Palyer]

Derp then Win

4 Tropical Island
2 Island
4 Flooded Strand
1 Polluted Delta
3 Yavimaya Coast
3 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors

4 Brainstorm
4 Portent
4 Force of Will
4 Misdirection

4 Show and Tell
4 Eureka

4 Elvish Spirit Guide

2 Akroma, Angel of Wrath
1 Avatar of Woe
1 Deathcoil Wurm
1 Petradon
1 Phantom Nishoba
1 Reya Dawnbringer
2 Spirit of the Night
1 Symbiotic Wurm
1 Verdant Force
1 Zodiac Dragon

some sb

[onehitpoint]

I see you're looking to make friends at the gaming table... :)

Just curious, why Eureka instead of Sneak Attack, which is reusable?

Nonetheless, I like the idea... Since we're going green, you could also try Worldly Tutor in there.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

I see you're looking to make friends at the gaming table... :)

Just curious, why Eureka instead of Sneak Attack, which is reusable?

Nonetheless, I like the idea... Since we're going green, you could also try Worldly Tutor in there.

Eureka lets ou put several things into play and works well with ESG. Instead of 7 dmg with VErdant Force, you'll get VF, Akroma, Nishoba and Petradon. Sounds good. Really good... :-)
Shame that it doesn't work well, there are too few permanents for massive Eureka, and too few cantrips to find Eureka in time... unsolvable issue, right? :laugh:

[Pastorofmuppets]

I wouldn't cut Werebear, you got no other creature that's both manadude and goyf-like beater...

Werebear isn't Goyflike. Before Goyf was Goyf Werebear was Goyf and people didn't even know that Goyf was a thing. Goyf doesn't even have second amendment rights unless you're playing Stoneblade. Back then Werebear was better than Goyf because Goyf cost 4 mana.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

Werebear isn't Goyflike. Before Goyf was Goyf Werebear was Goyf and people didn't even know that Goyf was a thing. Goyf doesn't even have second amendment rights unless you're playing Stoneblade. Back then Werebear was better than Goyf because Goyf cost 4 mana.
Umm... I'm not sure if you're serious or not, but know that I know what Werebear meant in sub2007 Legacy.

[onehitpoint]

Yes, it was heavily played around 2002 in the Extended format.

Miracle Grow / Super Grow used it alongside Meddling Mage, Quirion Dryad and Mystic Enforcer...

Potential 4/4 for 2 mana was quite good, not unlike the modern Tarmogoyf which is usually a 4/5 or 5/6.

[Teluin]

Alright guys, just wrote a bit about the WG land destruction deck you were talking about. I made a couple of minor changes, but overall I think it's pretty cool. Let me know what you think.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

Alright guys, just wrote a bit about the WG land destruction deck you were talking about. I made a couple of minor changes, but overall I think it's pretty cool. Let me know what you think.
Good job!

[Teluin]

Good job!

Thanks. I've got a couple more written already but I figured we had talked about that GW deck so would try it out. Right now am working on a Storm deck but am shying away from the Iggy Pop type gaveyard brews - instead, I'm focusing on card draw and Burning Wish tutor package. I've considered Diminishing Returns, Infernal Contract and even Meditate so far but the latter 2 seems pretty expensive mana-wise for 4 cards. Any recommendations? Grim Tutor could also be mainboarded, but with all the card draw and 4 Wishes it doesn't seem as necessary.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

Thanks. I've got a couple more written already but I figured we had talked about this GW so would try it out. Right now am working on a Storm deck but am shying away from the Iggy Pop type gaveyard brews - instead, I'm focusing on card draw and Burning Wish tutor package. I've considered Diminishing Returns, Infernal Contract and even Meditate so far but the latter 2 seems pretty expensive mana-wise for 4 cards. Any recommendations? Grim Tutor could also be mainboarded, but with all the card draw and 4 Wishes it doesn't seem as necessary.
It all depends on the banned list. Is there any room for Time Spiral? Then again it's quite expensive and not exactly good without High Tide.

[Teluin]

I could probably fit it in but am not a fan of the UU in the casting cost since this is a tri-colour deck with a focus on B. At least with Diminishing Returns you get your GY back which can be great with LED and Petals. I had been considering Necrologia too but the CC is pretty high for a card that doesn't let you go for the win the turn you cast it.

[onehitpoint]

Lim-Dûl's Vault to dig for what you need...?

[Teluin]

Lim-Dûl's Vault to dig for what you need...?

I'd considered that but without drawing a card I'm not a fan. I decided to try out 2 Diminishing Return in the MB with 1 in the SB and it's been amazing. It can win consistently on T3-4. Going to be writing about it next.

[Teluin]

Alright, added the Storm article. I've noticed my entries have been getting longer. Do you guys prefer this or should I try to keep them short and sweet? Also, the deck was super fun to play. If you enjoy playing Storm, try it out.

[onehitpoint]

Love it :)

Longer blog entries provide context and general strategy for the deck. I prefer it like this. Thumbs up...

I noticed you have 5x copies of Cabal Therapy between main and sideboard ;)

Why Opt instead of Sleight of Hand...?

[Teluin]

Love it :)

Longer blog entries provide context and general strategy for the deck. I prefer it like this. Thumbs up...

I noticed you have 5x copies of Cabal Therapy between main and sideboard ;)

Why Opt instead of Sleight of Hand...?

Thanks. I'm trying to add a bit of history to each deck before explaining the general strategy and card choices. Glad you guys enjoy them.

Haha good catch on the Cabal Therapy. I had originally put 1 in the sideboard as a Wish target before moving things around. As for Opt over Sleight of Hand - my focus was on the instant speed. Because Opt can be done at the end of your opponent's turn, it means you can leave U open to either Opt or Brainstorm in response to an opponent's Duress. I've thought about it though and Sleight of Hand is probably the better choice in general, so I'm going to exchange them for the 4 Opt and leave the 1 Cabal Therapy in the sideboard to be tutored. Thanks!

[Teluin]

New deck posted. Any requests?

[onehitpoint]

I would like to see a Elves or Enchantress deck next :)

I will try and post a preliminary Super Grow list tonight.
Not sure how to solve the "Gush is banned in Legacy" issue.
Might need less copies of Foil, to compensate, and additional card filtering...? Sleight of Hand, Portent, etc...

[Teluin]

Awesome - looking forward to reading it. I plan on reviewing the Banned lists at some point to see if anything else can be removed. My friend really wants Gush to be unbanned, but I don't think it should be. I've been reading the old B/R lists to see what was banned, when and why in Type 1.5 and Extended - I know a card like Black Vise could be unbanned by today's standards, but figuring out what is safe to unban in this format can be hard to do without extensive playtesting. For example, I think Flash could be removed since we don't have Protean Hulk, but I can't remember if there's some ridiculous combo with it before then? Any thoughts/input would be appreciated.

[onehitpoint]

At the time I would probably keep the ban list exactly like the current Legacy... Otherwise, it's another entry barrier and source of confusion.
Saying "Legacy format, with only old frame cards" is something everyone quickly grasps.

As for the SuperGrow list, this might be generic enough for casual fun.
(a quick search reveals tons of threads and articles on this deck, even here on The Source)

SUPER GROW

4x Quirion Dryad
4x Werebear
3x Meddling Mage
2x Mystic Enforcer

4x Brainstorm
3x Portent
3x Sleight of Hand

3x Stifle
3x Daze
2x Counterspell
4x Force of Will
1x Misdirection

4x Swords to Plowshares
2x Disenchant

4x Flooded Strand
4x Windswept Heath
3x Tundra
3x Tropical Island
1x Savannah
1x Island
1x Plains
1x Forest


4x Meddling Mages could be too much for casual, as we don't quite know what the "meta" is (if any...).
10x card filtering spells to go through the deck, achieve threshold and grow the dryad.
6x versatile removal cards, and 6x hard counters.
Stifles to protect against Wasteland and disrupt opponent's fetchlands, among other uses later on.
Daze to disrupt and slow down the opponent.
Misdirection can serve as additional removal + creature protection + disruption (redirect a Hymn to Tourach back is amazing)

The original Extended lists had Gush + Foil + Winter Orb, which was a powerful combo, but since we can't use Gush... :P

[Teluin]

It's already different because Survival's not banned. The people I play with are that nice balance of competitive but play for fun. There are a LOT of viable archetypes, so no meta has really developed yet - people have been enjoying brewing. I think one of the strengths of the format is that because creature power levels weren't ridiculously imbalanced as they are now, a lot more of them are playable. The 'stronger' creatures tend to be the build-around type, so that makes a large number of them playable in different decks. I think "Legacy B/R with a couple of differences" is easy enough for people.
As for the deck, it's pretty sweet. Have you been playing much with people yet?

[onehitpoint]

Survival of the Fittest is not banned anymore in Legacy!?

In casual play, sure, no problem... If we're all having fun, while keeping it reasonably balanced, i see no harm :)

As for playing with others, "old frame only" hasn't caught up here... yet... I went to a small Legacy tournament last weekend (3 rounds only) with the Eva Green list i posted earlier... People liked the deck.

Managed to defeat a current Legacy Reanimator 2-0 (duress, wastelands and hymns left him without mana), lost 0-2 to CounterTop Miracles (no chance whatsoever to destroy either Jace or the Top once it's in play), and also lost 0-2 to BW tokens (this one was more evenly played, but he overwhelms the board quickly, and i couldn't find a Pernicious Deed in time).

16 creatures felt too few at times, but 6 games is not enough to check this properly... I tried the spiritmongers, but since i use Wastelands as active disruption, getting to 5 mana takes time. Needs more testing. For the time being, erhnams remain my choice for the main deck.

[Teluin]

Survival of the Fittest is not banned anymore in Legacy!?

No no, I meant Survival's not banned in the Ancient format. That's awesome that you're playing the decks vs Legacy ones! I've been considering doing the same with the Astral Rift deck I posted since one of the three main Legacy places to play here is pretty low on combo. If/when I do, I can post some reports too.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

That's awesome that you're playing the decks vs Legacy ones... I can post some reports too.
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?26577-4th-at-LGS-with-Terrageddon
Oldie but goldie.

[Teluin]

I would like to see a Elves or Enchantress deck next :)

I've already written the Enchantress one, but I'm having so much fun with this Elf deck that I think it's going to be next.

[Teluin]

Elves posted. The deck contains 4 Gaea's Cradle, but they're not mandatory. Other than those, this is a great budget deck that's strong and very fun to play.

[onehitpoint]

I never played Elves. It looks interesting...

Why no Pendelhaven? We have a lot of 1/1's that could benefit from it. Protection from pyroclasm effects, supports blocking opposing attackers...

4 Gaea’s Cradle seems a lot. Try to cut a single copy and increase the Living Wishes instead.

Kaysa in the sideboard could be another wish target as an alternative to the Lords and Overrun.

Is it possible / viable to have an alternate rout of damage? Since the deck generates a lot of mana quickly, fireball effects might help seal the deal. Instead of deep shadows, messengers and weird harvest, skyshroud elves and Urza's Rage...? :)

***

As for the Burn deck, my only recommendation is to revise the Grim Lavamancer + Barbarian Ring package.
I tryed this back in 2002 extended sligh and it doesn't synergise well...

[Teluin]

Oh man, Elves are fun! Definitely recommend it. Adding a Pendelhaven's a good idea - I was focused on fetchable lands to thin the deck for Messenger, but I think 1-of's correct. As for cutting a Cradle - I'd considered your suggestion of the Wish as well but the only card I'd want to remove would be the 1-of Harvest, so 2 Wish's doesn't seem worth it to me to base more of the sideboard around them. The other thing is, you want to keep most of your cards non-spells because of Messenger, which you definitely don't cut. It's so good with Symbiote. There's lots of room for improvement though, try tinkering and let me know what you find out. And as for a different path for damage - I'd sooner look at a black source than going into a third colour. You want black for combo.

As for the Burn deck, I just put the Rings there are as pseudo uncounterable sources of 2 damage. I'm sure you're right about them though - it was a busy week and that was an old article, so I hadn't tested/revised the deck to the extent of others. On the bright side, the next deck I'm going to post shall have some more testing. It's a sweet Lands deck :)

[onehitpoint]

Sorry, I forgot about the symbiote + messenger combo. Lots of value there... :D

[Teluin]

Hey, I know I mentioned posting the Lands deck I've been working on but I'm actually going to wait for a couple of cards to arrive and then bring it to a tournament so hoping to do a report. In the meantime, I posted WG Enchantress. Let me know what you guys think!

[Teluin]

Hey guys,

I know it's been some time since my last post but been busy with holidays and what not. Posted a new deck today - Pox! Always been a fan of the deck, and the original card was just so cool. Let me know whatcha think.

Cheers.

[Teluin]

Hey guys,

I know it's been a while since I posted in here, but I haven't stopped brewing decks and posting them on the site. I see people from all over have been checking in, and if anyone has any requests just send me a PM.

Cheers.

[onehitpoint]

Greetings Teluin,

I keep checking your blog from time to time, though i haven't played Ancient in a while (currently playing WB Warriors in Standard FNM's).

I would like to see your take on PT Junk and/or Finkula decks.

Best regards,

[Teluin]

Heya onehitpoint,

I just finished a WBG Nic Fit deck that I'm going to post in a week (I tend to post a deck every 2 weeks now since I've been busy). I can do a Junk deck at some point, but I try to add variety in the colours of the decks each week. Finkula could be neat though, and I can look into writing about one for sure.

Cheers.

[Teluin]

just posted Maze of Webs (among many other things since last post)

[Teluin]

Sorry guys, dunno why the new post is in 2 different colours. Anyway, hope you all keep enjoying the content - have definitely seen an increase in traffic on the site.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

Teluin, you should sig a link to your site so that we don't need to search for it but have it handy.
Is there any chance to build CAL without LftL? I think that with proper amount of basic lands and Land Taxes, this might be doable. The other posibility how to feed Confinement is Squee, but it cannot be thrown into Sassault...

[Teluin]

Done. As a matter of fact, a S. Assault deck happens to be on my short (long) list already. I can do some research and look into CAL-style decks to see what options might be available to us. Thanks for the request :)

Edit: or at least I thought I did.. do sigs needs to be approved by mods?

[Teluin]

Hey guys,

sorry my articles haven't been every 2 weeks lately. Life and all that jazz. I have been working on them though and have written several already just waiting to be posted. As always, requests are welcome, just send me a message.

Cheers