[Deck] Turbo Depths

[Namida]

Well, what are you using Mishra's Factory for? Unless I'm missing something, the uses for Mishra's Factory are to beat Edict effects, to block low power ground creatures, and to attack. I guess it depends on if these things are good enough in your metagame to warrant it. Like I said in my report, I didn't play Factory because there are no Lilianas in my area right now, and I expected the only attackers would be Delver and TNN (unblockable).

[chaosjace]

Got 4th place ina small event, losing to reanimator round 1, beating eldrazi round 2, beating enchantress round three and losing to charbelcher round 4. 14 goblins on turn one sucks. I have never beaten reanimator in even one game before even with graveyard hate sideboarded in.

[fblthp]

Hi all. I've been playing LGS legacy events with Depths since Feb. My local metagame is pretty warped. It's about half RG Lands and half DNT, with a few delver and blade decks sprinkled in. Not much else. Lands I can kinda deal with, but DNT? I've never won a single game with any sideboard iteration, ever. I got close back when I ran Winter orbs with Tabernacle, but it wasn't enough. They'd just vial out wisps. I've tried deluge, mb trackers, dread of night, massacre, golgari charm, steely, NoTW, GQ, ballista...I even tried sulfur elemental once. Deluge is too slow vs port, dread misses a lot of their guys. It's also tough to side in enough hate without tanking the deck's consistency. If I am lucky I scrape by 2-2 courtesy of lands, burn or delver.

I am not the best magic player, but I am decent with the deck. I've read the primer, and I follow this thread closely. Am I missing something? Those of you that 2-0 or 2-1 DNT, how do you do it?

Current list:

Lands (23):
4x Dark Depths
4x Thespian's Stage
4x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4x Verdant Catacombs
2x Bayou
1x Ghost Quarter
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Sejiri Steppe
1x Snow-Covered Forest
1x Snow-Covered Swamp

Creatures (10):
4x Elvish Spirit Guide
4x Vampire Hexmage
2x Deathrite Shaman

Spells (27):
4x Lotus Petal
4x Crop Rotation
4x Sylvan Scrying
3x Into the North
2x Not of this World
2x Inquisition of Kozilek
1x Duress
4x Thoughtseize
3x Pithing Needle

SB:
3x Abrupt Decay
1x Karakas
1x The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
2x Surgical Extraction
2x Extirpate
1x Pithing Needle
2x Toxic Deluge
1x Golgari Charm
2x Steely Resolve

So far the 2 DRS have been great. They offer a little hedge against opposing extraction, eat swords, make mana through Moon, and are 'slow' fast mana no 9-10. Ancient Stirrings is tempting. I've also experimented with steely+wish+death's shadow, stronghold + ballista/fulminator, crucible, and factories, all to less success.

[Nealdrox]

Is Steely Resolve just a worse Not of this World?

[PeterSouth]

Is Steely Resolve just a worse Not of this World?

I just ordered a steely resolve. My first encounter with D&T was as annoying as imagined. Like half the deck stops the combo or gets rid of token, so my theory is one not of this world may not be enough. The steely resolve takes care of all threats in hand and in play at same time and don't need to use extra cards or needles for karakas. Maybe this will side in place of a fast mana or duress. I don't know if opponent would actually bother countering this thing or destroying it.

[caseyc]

Hi all. I've been playing LGS legacy events with Depths since Feb. My local metagame is pretty warped. It's about half RG Lands and half DNT, with a few delver and blade decks sprinkled in. Not much else. Lands I can kinda deal with, but DNT? I've never won a single game with any sideboard iteration, ever. I got close back when I ran Winter orbs with Tabernacle, but it wasn't enough. They'd just vial out wisps. I've tried deluge, mb trackers, dread of night, massacre, golgari charm, steely, NoTW, GQ, ballista...I even tried sulfur elemental once. Deluge is too slow vs port, dread misses a lot of their guys. It's also tough to side in enough hate without tanking the deck's consistency. If I am lucky I scrape by 2-2 courtesy of lands, burn or delver.

I am not the best magic player, but I am decent with the deck. I've read the primer, and I follow this thread closely. Am I missing something? Those of you that 2-0 or 2-1 DNT, how do you do it?

Current list:

Lands (23):
4x Dark Depths
4x Thespian's Stage
4x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4x Verdant Catacombs
2x Bayou
1x Ghost Quarter
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Sejiri Steppe
1x Snow-Covered Forest
1x Snow-Covered Swamp

Creatures (10):
4x Elvish Spirit Guide
4x Vampire Hexmage
2x Deathrite Shaman

Spells (27):
4x Lotus Petal
4x Crop Rotation
4x Sylvan Scrying
3x Into the North
2x Not of this World
2x Inquisition of Kozilek
1x Duress
4x Thoughtseize
3x Pithing Needle

SB:
3x Abrupt Decay
1x Karakas
1x The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
2x Surgical Extraction
2x Extirpate
1x Pithing Needle
2x Toxic Deluge
1x Golgari Charm
2x Steely Resolve

So far the 2 DRS have been great. They offer a little hedge against opposing extraction, eat swords, make mana through Moon, and are 'slow' fast mana no 9-10. Ancient Stirrings is tempting. I've also experimented with steely+wish+death's shadow, stronghold + ballista/fulminator, crucible, and factories, all to less success.

Yeah, honestly I have a similar impression of the DnT matchup. It sucks. One thing that helps is just playing really tight against them. DNSolver gave me some helpful feedback a while ago that I'll try to find and re-post for ya. I am currently on a 4x Rite of Consumption in the SB plan, which has been the most successful for me so far, but still I'm at like 25% against DnT. I have tried Steely Resolve, and it is definitely good. It has application beyond Not of this World's. In a protracted DnT matchup, NotW can feel like a band-aid on a bullet wound. Some people seem to have a lot of success against DnT, based on discussions here--but not me. My main DnT opponent is also a very highly skilled player, so that may have something to do with it. But even in some events I have lost to only average DnT players. Whereas I always felt very confident in the Miracles matchup and others here found it to be a nightmare. But yeah, try out Rite of Consumption if you haven't.

[caseyc]

How are you beating Miracles consistently? What patterns to the games result in you winning? How are you sideboarding?

Edit: I guess I'll actually answer the post :)

Tips and Tricks for Death and Taxes:

1) Wait to play Pithing Needle. Since D+T lacks card selection, they are stuck with what they draw in most cases. Wait to play Needle until you see something you want to Needle, either from them playing it or from a discard spell. In order of priority, these are usually Wasteland > Vial > Karakas > Port / Mom if there's no clear choice.

2) Fast mana can usually come out post-board because games will likely take a while to win unless you catch them with a bad hand that folds to one Needle.

3) Against only Karakas up as they pass to your turn with Thalia, Guardian of Thraben out, Ghost Quarter on Karakas at the end of their second main phase if they have already played a land that turn. This prevents them from floating mana in their endstep to use with their Plains they fetch to Plow your token. This does let them play a 2nd Karakas from hand if they have it, so use this trick only when they have played a land that turn.

4) Allow / entice your opponent to Wasteland your duals / Urborgs instead of your Stages / Depths.

5) Stage can copy your opponent's Wasteland, Port, or Karakas. You can occaisionally use the Wasteland or Port ability to get around Karakas.

6) Bring in Karakas to stop Mangara of Corondor from turning off your entire deck.

7) Flickerwisp is their best card against us if they can get to the necessary mana / vial number. It kills Marit Lage with its ability, blocks, attacks for 3 to clock us, and can exile Pithing Needles for a turn to unlock their cards.

8) Hexmage is a good blocker / attacker in the matchup. You can frequently get in some points of damage that negates 2-4 points of lifegain from Jitte / Batterskull. Hexmage also sacrifices to remove counters from vial. This will prevent your opponent from putting the card they want in from Vial if you remove the counters in response. If your opponent says that Vial remembers how many counters were on it, that only applies if the Vial is killed.

9) Sejiri Steppe can counter Swords, Flickerwisp or Mangara's abilities, etc. However, one of its better modes is to get through blockers.

10) Try to copy Ghost Quarter with a Stage if you get a chance, to make sure you have access to a second Ghost Quarter effect if your first combo attempt does not work.

Some of these plays are pretty obvious, but that should be enough to win at least half your games unless your opponent really knows your deck as well as you do.

For the benefit of others, see above :-)

[jdmdave]

DnT matchup is tough, but not unwinnable. Just requires lots of careful play + pithing needles.

What are everyones thoughts on the deck's 59-60th cards now that NOTW isn't well positioned? I've always preferred a sylvan + 3rd into, but I see other people like to go heavier on IoK/deluge/other crop rotation bullets. I'm starting to think that we want more disruption past just 8x tseize/duress + pithing needle maindeck due to the mass amounts of combo/delver.

[fblthp]

For the benefit of others, see above :-)

Thanks! I'll definitely give the karakas trick and Thespian's Stage games a try, but I have the sneaking suspicion it will wind up like my Winter Orb plan where I get really close but ultimately can't out-control the 'control' deck. Anyone tried Damping Matrix or Torpor Orb recently? I've been considering them. Each switches off a lot of DNT permanents. EDIT: I will also clear room for Rite of Consumption.

As far as the 59-60 NoTW replacement slots, I've been trying deathrite x2. Additional 1x duress and 1x needle wasn't bad. Dark Ritual x2 was a little too clunky. I might actually try Gurmag or Hooting Mandrills. The deck fills its graveyard quickly and could use some cheap backup threats, plus edict and extraction 'protection.'

[solnox]

Rite of Consumption is where its at. Mishra's Factory I played MB due to Miracles. It was a very viable alt win con vs it.

[hovercraft]

Damping Matrix shuts off Hexmage

[jdmdave]

Anyone here been trying a GB build with Git probe? I've been goldfishing the deck and it seems fine.

[filln]

Anyone here been trying a GB build with Git probe? I've been goldfishing the deck and it seems fine.

What do you take out for it? The NoTW/Rite/Sylvan Library slots?

[DNSolver]

Another 5-0 this morning.

2-0 Sneak and Show (discard Blood Moon, Needle Sneak Attack, play Karakas)
2-0 BUG Delver
2-1 Grixis Delver
2-0 UR Delver (Minnifer)
1-0 Opponent conceded and said he didn't want to play against combo. Welcome to Legacy, where Modern-speed combos are better than some decks.

You guys who are replacing Not of This World - what decks are you worried about? The maindeck has been serving me well for...well, ever. I haven't changed a card since I put in Expedition Map about 9-10 months ago. I could see cutting a maximum of 1, and only for a Dryad Arbor or Factory. You don't need or want Library against Delver and you're fine G1 against most combo decks.

My current sideboard:
4 Decay
1 Needle
1 Karakas
4 Sphere of Resistance
3 Sylvan Library
2 Surgical (realized that last time I 5-0'd I had a 13-card sideboard because I had lent these out...)

[hovercraft]

DNS do you play 3 or 4 Urborg lately?

[DNSolver]

3 Urborgs. I like green mana to cast all of my tutors.

[jdmdave]

Idk, I guess I'm afraid that the NOTW are dead in too many matchups g1?

* Storm - Dead
* Delver - Dead
* Eldrazi - Dead

etc...

As for Sylvan, I find it way too slow in the current meta, but it's probably an acceptable sideboard card.

List

* 12 Combo Lands (I view the 4th Urborg as absolutely integral for the typical "oops, 1+1+hexmage = GG" hands
* 3 Utility Lands (Factory in Side, Steppe/Bog/GQ Main)
* 2 Snows
* 2 Bayou
* 2 Verdant
* 2 Blooming
* 4 Gitaxian Probe - Trying this out. I actually like how it lets us form a plan ala Infect. I've also tested 1x Needle, 1x Into, 2x IOK in this slot.
* 2 Into
* 4 Sylvan Scrying
* 4 Crop Rotation
* 4 Hexmage
* 4 Petal
* 4 ESG
* 4 Tseize
* 4 Duress
* 3 Needle

Sideboard

* 1 Needle
* 4 Sphere
* 1 Karakas
* 3 Decay
* 3 Surgical
* 2 NoTW
* 1 Factory (Like it over Ith or non-tutorable silver bullets like charm/deluge/library/crucible)

[Namida]

Put simply, my metagame has almost no white in it, but I am not cleaning up house because of the games I drop to stumbling against decks that are fast enough to actually punish you for that. We're not terrible against combo decks, but you're definitely a bit worse off if you play literal do-nothings in your deck.

I feel like it's a bad idea to be playing dedicated anti-hate in the maindeck since we already play maindeck answers to the spells and abilities Not of this World counters and we usually can afford to take the time to find answers in those matchups.

To me, it's as simple as choosing between having a completely dead card against Show and Tell, or having a weak-to-dead card against Stoneblade.

[chaosjace]

I had an eldrazi player dismember my token to make it non lethal, but they went so low and only had tombs I just had to swing again.

[hovercraft]

I cut down to 1 NOTW main and 1 sideboard for now. Playing 4 Needles instead of 3 with the extra slot(my mindset being that Needle still gets Karakas and other things). I've used NOTW vs Repeal in 12 post, Venser in UWx, Echoing Truth in Storm, so it is a little more than just Swords and Karakas.

[jdmdave]

Congrats on the 5-0 DNsolver

2 Questions

* NOTW in the maindeck - You sure on this?
* Sylvan in the sideboard - What does this come in vs? Confidant a consideration? The Old Emrakul 2.0 + ugin plan?

[MDHackbert]

Congrats on the 5-0 DNsolver

2 Questions

* NOTW in the maindeck - You sure on this?
* Sylvan in the sideboard - What does this come in vs? Confidant a consideration? The Old Emrakul 2.0 + ugin plan?

In addition to this, no Edict protection? Have you not encountered Diabolic Edict much?

[DNSolver]

I have been able to discard Edict or play around topdecked Edict outs by casting Spirit Guide / Hexmage.

Regarding Not of This World, I will repeat this part:

You guys who are replacing Not of This World - what decks are you worried about? The maindeck has been serving me well for...well, ever. I haven't changed a card since I put in Expedition Map about 9-10 months ago. I could see cutting a maximum of 1, and only for a Dryad Arbor or Factory. You don't need or want Library against Delver and you're fine G1 against most combo decks.

Not of This World is great.

Edit: To elaborate a bit more, our deck looks like a joke against Swords to Plowshares or Karakas without Not of This World. Crop Rotation has a real cost and has other uses. I haven't had much trouble against combo decks with my current configuration, and I want to be able to beat Stoneblade and Death and Taxes G1 if possible.

[jdmdave]

I trust you as I too ran the 2 MD Notw to GP level success, so I'll follow your lead on the Notw.

As for the libraries/equivalent, what are they coming in vs? I presume Library is used over tracker/confidant due to being harder to kill?

[caseyc]

I also have gone down to 2x NotW in the main. However, they are really helpful in orchestrating that one turn where you win. I also have been running 1x Collective Brutality, and will be going up to 2x. This helps utilize those occasional dead cards and also is a discard spell that I can keep in when I board in my 4x Chalices.

I also am going to try Ground Seal in the SB. It stops Life from the Loam out of Lands (really the only way they reliably win against us), stops Surgical extraction (the only way BUG and Delver variants steal matches from us--when used in conjunction with Diabolic Edict or maybe Submerge), stops Snapcaster, stops Deathrite Shaman, and stops most reanimation spells (except Exhume). My other anti-edict, anti-graveyard SB tech is Beckon Apparition. I think it was mentioned here as a joke, but it's the real deal :-) Except it nombos with Ground Seal.

[Namida]

I have been able to discard Edict or play around topdecked Edict outs by casting Spirit Guide / Hexmage.

Regarding Not of This World, I will repeat this part:

You guys who are replacing Not of This World - what decks are you worried about? The maindeck has been serving me well for...well, ever. I haven't changed a card since I put in Expedition Map about 9-10 months ago. I could see cutting a maximum of 1, and only for a Dryad Arbor or Factory. You don't need or want Library against Delver and you're fine G1 against most combo decks.

Not of This World is great.

Edit: To elaborate a bit more, our deck looks like a joke against Swords to Plowshares or Karakas without Not of This World. Crop Rotation has a real cost and has other uses. I haven't had much trouble against combo decks with my current configuration, and I want to be able to beat Stoneblade and Death and Taxes G1 if possible.

Crop Rotation has a real cost, but so does playing Not of this World. It feels like I'm a Dredge player with maindeck Nature's Claim in my deck because of one player in my area playing RIP Combo. Sure, the deck looks foolish if your opponent just has the proper hate, but it's not assured and we actually have some answers so I don't feel it's necessary ｔo go as far as playing maindeck dedicated anti-hate to combat it. Basically, the answer to your question is actually "I am not afraid of Death and Taxes and Stoneblade...because they don't show up."

I originally questioned playing Not of this World main because I contend you wouldn't actually play the card if you knew 100% that you were going into a metagame with 0 copies of Death and Taxes, and very few Stoneblade players. That's how my metagame has ended up looking. If you're seeing a lot of white decks then it makes sense to risk the dead cards against combo, but when every tournament you go to effectively has you running a combo gauntlet, Not of this World has no text and makes little sense.

Edit: I don't know what anyone else's metagame looks like so perhaps it was a mistake to advocate for playing no Not of this World as a universal thing, but I do believe it's something players should consider as a metagame choice when they don't expect a ton of Swords and Karakas.

[solnox]

I can see myself going down to 2 NOTW but I havent played the deck for a few weeks now

[jdmdave]

Are we sure that Sylvan Library is where we want to be post board? I guess I just don't see it over Tireless Tracker/Bob/Eye of Ugin + Emrakul/Worldbreaker plan.

[DNSolver]

I could see Tracker / Bob being good replacements for Library. In the mono-red matchups I like Library but I could see Tracker being alright there as a way to win through Blood Moon. I do like that Library synergizes well with all of our tutors as shuffle effects.

I don't think that Eye is necessary in the meta. It would only have text against Stoneblade and I think the matchup is fine.

[jdmdave]

Here is my finalized list for the tournament. Upon review of recent tournament reports, the meta is full of reanimator, S&S, BUG, eldrazi, & delver.

* 12 Combo Lands
* 3 Utility - Steppe/Bog/GQ
* 2 Snows
* 2 Marsh
* 2 Bayou
* 2 Verdant
* 3 Into
* 4 Sylvan
* 4 Crop
* 4 Duress
* 4 Tseize
* 4 Needle
* 4 Petal
* 4 ESG
* 4 Hexmage
* 2 NoTW

Sideboard

* 4 Sphere
* 3 Surgical
* 3 Decay
* 1 Karakas
* 1 Factory
* 3 Open (Are you sure on Library?)

[DNSolver]

Looks like a solid list. I think you'll be glad for the Not of This Worlds.

[jdmdave]

Do you run into issues with multiple library draws? I do like how the card is more resilient than bob/cheaper than tracker, but it seems like a 2 library + 1 random split might be easier?

[fblthp]

I haven't been able to go without NoTW, not quite. Hanging on to them feels awful, but needle is typically already on a 4x threat like wasteland, vial, mom, maybe jace etc and a late game Karakas or Ith can be brutal without NoTW. I spose I can hope to have/topdeck enough tutors to assemble the combo -and- fetch GQ. Maybe. There's just too many paper Lands and DNT decks in my area. I could see a needle replacing 1x. Guess I will know more tomorrow, went from 3 to 2 NoTW, and trying 1x gemstone mine.

[hovercraft]

This is what I am leaning towards for upcoming GPT Vegas. Still very torn on NOTW, I keep going back and forth with it or playing a 4th Needle or something else. I expect at least 2 DnT players, 1-2 Maverick and maybe 1 Lands player. We have a lot of combo, SnS and a couple of Delver decks. I have been considering playing a single Hymn to Tourach in the discard suite to help some combo matchups.

3 Bayou
1 Bojuka Bog
4 Dark Depths
1 snow covered Forest
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Sejiri Steppe
1 snow covered Swamp
4 Thespian's Stage
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Verdant Catacombs

4 Crop Rotation
4 Duress
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
1 Expedition Map
2 Into the North
4 Lotus Petal
2 Not of This World
3 Pithing Needle
1 Sylvan Library
4 Sylvan Scrying
4 Thoughtseize
4 Vampire Hexmage

Sideboard:
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Golgari Charm
1 Karakas
1 Mishra's Factory
1 Not of This World
1 Pithing Needle
2 Rite of Consumption
3 Sphere of Resistance
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Toxic Deluge

[Namida]

2 Death and Taxes, 2-3 Maverick and a Lands player sounds like a ton of people playing Karakas + other cards that are terrible for you. If that many people are on those sorts of decks, Not of this World seems like the right call. Those matchups are going to be hard to dodge in a small tournament, and if it's a bigger event you could probably bet on more people than just them playing White decks.

[ottomanottoman]

For those of you running factory in the board, why factory over arbor? I've been running arbor and it has saved a few marit lages so far against the edict decks thanks to an uncracked fetch. From what I gather the differences sound like they go like this:

Pros for arbor:
Can be fetched
Produces green

Cons for arbor:
Easier to remove
Can't produce mana the turn it comes in

Pros for factory:
Can make mana the turn it comes in
Isn't always a creature
Bigger beats as a 2/2

Cons to factory:
Needs a land search card to be found on time

[hovercraft]

For those of you running factory in the board, why factory over arbor? I've been running arbor and it has saved a few marit lages so far against the edict decks thanks to an uncracked fetch. From what I gather the differences sound like they go like this:

Pros for arbor:
Can be fetched
Produces green

Cons for arbor:
Easier to remove
Can't produce mana the turn it comes in

Pros for factory:
Can make mana the turn it comes in
Isn't always a creature
Bigger beats as a 2/2

Cons to factory:
Needs a land search card to be found on time

Factory can block 3/3 and trade too. I mostly chose factory because I don't have any arbors. I think they are pretty close.

[HAVE HEART]

Do you run into issues with multiple library draws? I do like how the card is more resilient than bob/cheaper than tracker, but it seems like a 2 library + 1 random split might be easier?

You have asked about cutting/shaving Sylvan Library at least three times within ten posts. Just cut/shave them if you want.

[DNSolver]

Made top 8 of the new weekly Legacy challenge today. List here:

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/649083#online

R1: Deathblade 2-1
R2: Shardless BUG 2-1
R3: Death and Taxes 2-1
R4: 5color Cascade 2-1
R5: UR Delver 2-0
R6: Red Stompy 0-2
Quarters: Elves 0-2

The loss to Elves in the quarters was probably just due to me not looking for a fast enough hand. I probably should have mulliganed looking for a faster opener both games.

[Whitefaces]

I saw you tearing it up and was wondering what you were on, congrats!

[PeterSouth]

Went 0-3. Here's a report for anyone thinking about running a similar list:

4x blooming marsh
4x mana confluence
4x llanowar wastes
3x urborg, tomb
1x shizo, death's
3x dark depths
3x thespian's stage
3x vampire hexmage
4x duress
4x inquisition of k
4x thoughtseize
4x sylvan scrying
4x living wish
4x expedition map
3x pithing needle
4x gemstone mine

SB:
1x karakas
1x thespian's
1x dark depths
1x vampire hexmage
1x sylvan safekeeper
1x reclamation sage
1x sejiri steppe
1x ghost quarter
1x toxic deluge
4x abrupt decay
1x phyrexian revoker
1x pithing needle

game 1 played vs. experienced death and taxes player. Pithing needles were great but still messy especially when i didn't draw much mana. karakas was great vs thalia.

game 2 played vs. delver. made big mistake of living wish for hexmage vs. thespian's stage and getting hexmage dazed when i tried to play fast instead of waiting a turn.

game 3 vs. laboratory maniac. he won first game on turn 1 on the play. i won second game by making him discard twice in first two games. third game he cabal therapy two inquistion out of my hand turn one. i draw duress and decided to go for turn two token instead. he said if i duressed instead i would have won.

Alot of my games so far seems like whoever plays first wins and if i have first turn discard spell i do real well. Alot of games I had multiple search cards like one time 3 living wish in hand....maybe should have mulliganed that. I like this version better than my last version because i never felt mana screwed or that i wasn't actively doing something because i was missing cards. There were maybe a couple games I might have won if had fast mana. probably add back in the lotus petals and shave some search. I like the living wish addition because I didn't have openers with two dark depths, have toolbox, and living wish gets removed from game so no deathrite and no goyf +1.

[epicthings]

Congrats on the top 8 finish. I've noticed sphere replacing chalice a lot lately. Curious why you prefer it over chalice. Being able to shut down 1 drops against some decks is amazing, plus sphere makes NoTw cost more. Curious what your input is. Been jamming a ton of legscy leagues lately and everyone seems to have swords in their decks



Made top 8 of the new weekly Legacy challenge today. List here:

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/649083#online

R1: Deathblade 2-1
R2: Shardless BUG 2-1
R3: Death and Taxes 2-1
R4: 5color Cascade 2-1
R5: UR Delver 2-0
R6: Red Stompy 0-2
Quarters: Elves 0-2

The loss to Elves in the quarters was probably just due to me not looking for a fast enough hand. I probably should have mulliganed looking for a faster opener both games.

[Nealdrox]

I prefer Sphere more just for its more versatility especially against storm which can still go off through a chalice on 1 or 0.

[epicthings]

I'm gonna test them out in the next league I play in, considering spheres are $2.50 for a playset its worth exploring.



I prefer Sphere more just for its more versatility especially against storm which can still go off through a chalice on 1 or 0.

[caseyc]

I also have gone down to 2x NotW in the main. However, they are really helpful in orchestrating that one turn where you win. I also have been running 1x Collective Brutality, and will be going up to 2x. This helps utilize those occasional dead cards and also is a discard spell that I can keep in when I board in my 4x Chalices.

I also am going to try Ground Seal in the SB. It stops Life from the Loam out of Lands (really the only way they reliably win against us), stops Surgical extraction (the only way BUG and Delver variants steal matches from us--when used in conjunction with Diabolic Edict or maybe Submerge), stops Snapcaster, stops Deathrite Shaman, and stops most reanimation spells (except Exhume). My other anti-edict, anti-graveyard SB tech is Beckon Apparition. I think it was mentioned here as a joke, but it's the real deal :-) Except it nombos with Ground Seal.

But for real--what do you all think of Ground Seal as a 1-2x in the SB?

[Nealdrox]

It isn't a bad card. In fact I like it but there is just so many more important cards we need to be running other than that.

[Artemis]

But for real--what do you all think of Ground Seal as a 1-2x in the SB?

Relic of Progenitus does a better job and for colorless mana, also you can just pay 1 and keep it there to save your cards from surgical.

[Nealdrox]

Surgical takes care of protecting our Depths in the yard.

[Negator77']

If anyone is interested, Pat Euglow (from Leaving a Legacy) will be streaming the BUG version of Depths tonight. I will be joining him for his first run through a league with the deck. I think he has three total matches in with it so far, so it should get interesting. Stream should start around 8:30 est.. aka about two and a half hours from this post.+

edit - realized I didn't even leave the link: https://www.twitch.tv/pateuglow

[MDHackbert]

make sure he archives it. If i don't get to it live, i'll watch after.

[Negator77']

make sure he archives it. If i don't get to it live, i'll watch after.

It appears that he does since he has videos there, but I'll ask him later

[pateuglow]

make sure he archives it. If i don't get to it live, i'll watch after.

Videos will be archived fo sho

[ugotpauld]

Has living wish been discussed

[Djehuti]

Has living wish been discussed

Yes. Several times and to the same result: too slow, but feel free to try it for yourself.

[Claymore]

Living Wish goes into more control lists - http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=23229&iddeck=179954

Too slow for this archetype which wants to strip defenses with discard and get a fast Lage, then nullify any responses with countermeasures.

[Emrakul503]

I am not sure this is the right place for this, or really where it goes at all, but I saw this list surface over the weekend and wanted to try it out: http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=15633&d=295510&f=LE

I managed to go 1-2 with it, while a friend on the same list went 2-1. The deck felt powerful in a lot of ways, combining all the best features of Dark Depths, and the toolbox land package of Combo Lands. That said, having played both, it pulls in two different directions sometimes. Being only my first time taking the deck out, I was not sure how to fully utilize the SB. I won against Elves (although he drew most of his deck through a resolved Sphere of Resistance G3, which was incredibly impressive to watch), lost a pretty fast and not particularly close match to Death and Taxes, then had a very interactive and interesting game against Dark Bant. I sided in the full combo from the side, he plays RiP, I have 3 lands that tap for mana and some others, top deck the Helm (he only has a brainstorm in hand), but did not find a 4th land to do him in. Felt bad, but knowing I COULD have won there was nice.

There are some elements to the deck that are clunky, such as the whole Intuition situation in the side. I kind of wish that they were just Entombs, but understand 3 is better than one a lot of the times. I also would like O-stone to be EE, possibly finding room for an EE in the main as well. DnT was incredibly tough, and I was not really sure what axis to fight on.

When sidebaording, I took out usually a cycle land, a Loam, some number of Ports, Sylvan Scrying and some HexMages. I am not sure that was right, but it felt like when siding into the other combo, you want to side out a little less reliance on the main plain. Also, the first game where I did not side out the mages and went for the other combo, I had 2x Voids and 2x Mages in hand with only one black source.

All and all, if you have the cards, this list is funky enough to give a shot. I enjoyed the feel of it, and the overall speed versus RGCL. However, there is clearly some room for refinement (likely based on meta), and necessity of reps with the deck. Would love to hear others thoughts on the list, or where to go with it.

Edit: I never actually saw or cast Scrying to know if it felt good. I do think some tutor is necessary, but I wonder if this could be either Entomb or Intuition. Both of those may be too slow.

[chaosjace]

I am not sure this is the right place for this, or really where it goes at all, but I saw this list surface over the weekend and wanted to try it out: http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=15633&d=295510&f=LE

I managed to go 1-2 with it, while a friend on the same list went 2-1. The deck felt powerful in a lot of ways, combining all the best features of Dark Depths, and the toolbox land package of Combo Lands. That said, having played both, it pulls in two different directions sometimes. Being only my first time taking the deck out, I was not sure how to fully utilize the SB. I won against Elves (although he drew most of his deck through a resolved Sphere of Resistance G3, which was incredibly impressive to watch), lost a pretty fast and not particularly close match to Death and Taxes, then had a very interactive and interesting game against Dark Bant. I sided in the full combo from the side, he plays RiP, I have 3 lands that tap for mana and some others, top deck the Helm (he only has a brainstorm in hand), but did not find a 4th land to do him in. Felt bad, but knowing I COULD have won there was nice.

There are some elements to the deck that are clunky, such as the whole Intuition situation in the side. I kind of wish that they were just Entombs, but understand 3 is better than one a lot of the times. I also would like O-stone to be EE, possibly finding room for an EE in the main as well. DnT was incredibly tough, and I was not really sure what axis to fight on.

When sidebaording, I took out usually a cycle land, a Loam, some number of Ports, Sylvan Scrying and some HexMages. I am not sure that was right, but it felt like when siding into the other combo, you want to side out a little less reliance on the main plain. Also, the first game where I did not side out the mages and went for the other combo, I had 2x Voids and 2x Mages in hand with only one black source.

All and all, if you have the cards, this list is funky enough to give a shot. I enjoyed the feel of it, and the overall speed versus RGCL. However, there is clearly some room for refinement (likely based on meta), and necessity of reps with the deck. Would love to hear others thoughts on the list, or where to go with it.

Edit: I never actually saw or cast Scrying to know if it felt good. I do think some tutor is necessary, but I wonder if this could be either Entomb or Intuition. Both of those may be too slow.

Personally I think Life from the Loam is too slow, and when reanimator took over, the graveyard became a huge liability. I moved over to Dark Depths from RG Combo Lands and haven't missed it. IMO the meta has become too fast to durdle with filling the graveyard and waiting for your opponent to do things while hoping to get your combo in a reasonable time frame.

[Emrakul503]

You might be right. I like the idea of having some more late game stuff going on, but the dead sprint to the finish line can be what you really need to get there. I suppose the appeal of this deck was that it incorporated elements of both, and I definitely do feel it is faster and less reliant on GY than RGCL. I want to give it another go before jumping ship entirely. Also, locally, the GY hate comes in the form of things like RiP usually, which makes the Helm combo just that much more viable.

[ashent]

Negator, I've been interested in your list as a primarily BUG player, but I'm missing Moxes from your list. Are these entirely required? Is there any other way you would build the mana base or should the deck be BG if I'm not running those?

I'm currently playing a pretty stock DNSolver list.

[Negator77']

Negator, I've been interested in your list as a primarily BUG player, but I'm missing Moxes from your list. Are these entirely required? Is there any other way you would build the mana base or should the deck be BG if I'm not running those?

I'm currently playing a pretty stock DNSolver list.

Sadly, yeah. Unless you can find another card that simultaneously fills the requirements of being a turn 1 colored source for U, B, and G that isn't a one shot use while also being an accelerant that is. Some of the most busted draws the deck has involve brainstorm being cast turn 1 off Mox giving you access to the top 10/11 cards (play/draw) to put together a turn 2 combo (many combinations of cards) with disruption that can be played off of your land drop on turn 1 often shuffling away excess in the process. The list would need a pretty big overhaul to accommodate it not being there.

[ashent]

Okay, thanks a lot. I really do like the idea of adding Brainstorm to the deck but the Mox Diamonds have never been on my staples list. I already have a ridiculous amount of cards, I'll probably get them anyway but it seems like I should stop :tongue:

[chaosjace]

With my luck in dice rolling lately I am considering Gemstone Cavern

[solnox]

Just won a GPT with Turbo Depths today. 19 people 5 rounds

List

4x Thespian's Stage
4x Dark Depths
3x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4x Verdant Catacombs
2x Bayou
1x Blooming Marsh
1x Forest
1x Swamp
1x Ghost Quarter
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Sejiri Steppe
1x Maze of Ith
4x Vampire Hexmage
4x Elvish Spirit Guide
4x Lotus Petal
4x Crop Rotation
4x Sylvan Scrying
1x Sylvan Library
4x Thoughtseize
3x Duress
4x Pithing Needle
3x Not of This World
2x Abrupt Decay

SB:
3x Sphere of Resistance
3x Chalice of the Void
3x Surgical Extraction
1x Karakas
1x Mishra's Factory
1x Sylvan Library
2x Golgari Charm
1x Abrupt Decay


R1 vs Unexpected Miracles (1-2)

G1: Plow, snap plow, force are good magic cards vs Depths

G2: I grind to the point where I can manually unlock depths at 1 counter but try to wear him down with discard, mishra's beats. I land a sylvan library. I make lage and he's forced to plow it. I draw a ton of cards and kill his blocker with decay to kill him with 4 Mishra's Factories

G3: I mulligan to 4 and almost draw out of it. He gets there with Clique/Snaps beats before I can draw the round.


R2 vs Chimp and Show (2-0).

G1: I T1 land, T2 scrying, T3 make Lage and He cant find a 5th mana to sneak an emrakul

G2: I play a Turn 1 Depths which makes a T2 Show super risky. I play Urborg hexmage. He t3 shows and I put in needle naming sneak. He puts in Omni and his spell was Sneak attack. Marit Lage takes it.

R3 vs Grixis Delver (2-0)

G1: T2 Scrying meets a Force of Will. I draw a hexmage and play depths and he doesnt have Wasteland.

G2: I T1 Duress, Petal, ESG, Chalice on 1. He tilts off and flips a 2nd surgical off his delver trigger. I rip a lotus petal to play Hexmage and play depths to win it.

R4 vs BG Depths feat MB Surgical, Probe (1-2)

G1: A Thoughtseize shows MB 2 Surgicals!!! Probe, Creatures. I take his hexmage and He proceeds to draw Hexmage into Depths with Urborg. Ouch

G2: I T2 Crop rotation for the win after he taps out for library

G3: We both make Marit Lages and stare at each other. I can't find a Land tutor or sejiri steppe to get past his and I lose to Deathrite drain.

R5 vs Goblins (2-1)

G1: I have Urborg, Bog tapped, Lotus petal at the end of his T2. I use the petal to rotation the bog for depths. float double black. ESG 2nd Rotation the urborg for Stage to win.

G2: I mull to 5 and he swarms me with Goblins. Dead on T3.

G3: I have Urborg Needle Wasteland. T2 Depth Hexmage with NOTW backup for any shenanigans.

I managed to limp into 8th place at 3-2 and am paired vs the number 1 Seed on Black Red Reanimator.

Quarters vs Black Red Reanimator (2-1)

G1: He tries to go for a T2 Griselbrand but I have the rotation for Bog to stop it. I tutor for Stage and T4 Marit Lage after he bricks a few turns.

G2: A T1 Chancellor stops anything I'm doing for a while. He plays needle to stop stage and thoughtseizes my hexmage. I can't find a 2nd hexmage and I die to the angel.

G3: I Throw a chalice for 0 into the Chancellor trigger and thoughtseize him. He has 3x Reanimation spells, land, chancellor, Entomb, Dark Rit. I take the Entomb and he goes on the EOT discard a creature plan. I rip Hexmage and play depths to T2 Marit Lage


Semis vs GB Depths Mirror

G1: He draws 3x Rotation and I draw 1.

G2: I chimp him T2 with Lage and he doesnt have an answer.

G3: I keep a questionable 7 of GQ, Stage, Depths, Needle, Roto, Duress, NOTW. He plays t1 urborg thoughtseizes my Rotation. I draw urborg and play Stage and the needle on Hexmage to prevent the T2 kill. He probes and thoughtseizes taking the duress and plays a wasteland. I draw ESG and play depths to bait the waste. He wastes and I float black off his Urborg with depths, ESGs and copies depths. He cant draw Diabolic Edict and I win.

Finals vs Bant Deathblade

G1: I have the godhand of Hexmage, Depths, Duress, Urborg, NOTW, Rotation, Fetch. He leads with T1 waste. I play urborg and duress him, taking the Batterskull leaving him with 2 dazes, tundra, SFM. I play a 2nd duress and take a Daze. I play some lands and play a needle before I play Hexmage+depths. He has no answer and we go to G2.

G2: He keeps a 1 lander and I have a reasonable hand with needle, NOTW, Discard, lands, tutor. I t1 urborg needle, he Forces it. He brainstorms and locks himself.. I thoughtseize him and play petal+scrying with depths as mana to get Scrying. He Brainstorms again and finds a waste and lets me untap. I play a stage and another petal. A 2nd needle off the top on wasteland forces the activation of wasteland but Stage makes Lage. I have NOTw for any shenanigans and it gets all the way there.


I really liked the deck as always but I think the unexpected miracles lists are going to be problems. Plow snap plow is still absurd. There was no DnT in the room which makes the truly worst matchup miracles with maverick following it. Chalice in the board was pretty great as Chalice on 1 vs combo, delver is insane. being able to throw chalice into a chancellor trigger and letting me thoughtseize was key in winning that matchup.

[chaosjace]

How was maze of ith? Did you miss into the north at all?

[solnox]

I liked Maze as it was pretty great for the mirror or aggressive decks like Delver.

I think I've stated in some of my previous posts but I'm of the opinion that Into the North is absolute trash. Exposing myself to Wasteland +surgical extraction is not worth it at all and forces you to play Snow Covered basics which give off an immediate tell that you are on Turbo Depths. I've won games where my opponents have thought I was on Shardless or BUG Leos etc by going verdant fetch, swamp/bayou thoughtseize.

[ET1]

I liked Maze as it was pretty great for the mirror or aggressive decks like Delver.

I think I've stated in some of my previous posts but I'm of the opinion that Into the North is absolute trash. Exposing myself to Wasteland +surgical extraction is not worth it at all and forces you to play Snow Covered basics which give off an immediate tell that you are on Turbo Depths. I've won games where my opponents have thought I was on Shardless or BUG Leos etc by going verdant fetch, swamp/bayou thoughtseize.

I'm curious as to how you liked the mainboard abrupt decay. I assume these took the spots of expedition map? Also wondering just in general how you liked having less land tutors? I've played depths off and on for the past 7 months or so, but was thinking about giving it a spin soon, definitely looking to run mainboard decay for the heavy number of blood moons in my meta.

[Lio]

Just won a GPT with Turbo Depths today. 19 people 5 rounds

R4 vs BG Depths feat MB Surgical, Probe (1-2)

G1: A Thoughtseize shows MB 2 Surgicals!!! Probe, Creatures. I take his hexmage and He proceeds to draw Hexmage into Depths with Urborg. Ouch

G2: I T2 Crop rotation for the win after he taps out for library

G3: We both make Marit Lages and stare at each other. I can't find a Land tutor or sejiri steppe to get past his and I lose to Deathrite drain.


Hi solnox, nice read. Could you provide me a decklist of your BG Depths opponent? I am thrilled by an idea of playing BG Dark Depths and being able to play fair games of Magic sometimes (Shaman drains, attacking with creatures etc).

[DNSolver]

Played the Legacy Challenge today to a mediocre result, mostly due to excellent draws from opponents and poor draws from my own. Recorded my rounds in real time (not streamed) - check out the link.

Changes going forward: possibly changing the sideboard to be able to interact on turn 0 vs Storm, Mindbreak Traps instead of Spheres.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCosRQS3dxcbroyAJYvGuUeQ

[hovercraft]

Went 3-2, good for 10th (28 people) at my local GPT Vegas today.


2 Bayou
1 Blooming Marsh
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Sejiri Steppe
1 Snow-Forest
1 Snow-Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Dark Depths
4 Thespian's Stage
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth


4 Vampire Hexmage
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Lotus Petal

2 Abrupt Decay
2 Duress
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Thoughtseize
1 Toxic Deluge

4 Crop Rotation
2 Into the North
1 Sylvan Library
4 Sylvan Scrying

3 Pithing Needle


Sideboard:

1 Dryad Arbor
1 Golgari Charm
1 Karakas
1 Krosan Grip
2 Not of This World
1 Pithing Needle
3 Sphere of Resistance
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Tireless Tracker
1 Toxic Deluge



I decided to run 2 Abrupt Decay and a Toxic Deluge main over NOTW and Expedition maps, but otherwise list is pretty stock.

R1: L vs DnT (0-2)
Of course after cutting NOTW I face DnT first round. I hung on in these games but drew horribly. By the time I made a token in G1, he had Mom+Mom + Serra Avenger online to block, and had a Jitte on the angel. In G2 I dismantled a lot of his hand with discard spells, and Ghost Quartered a Karakas, used a Toxic to clear the board once, but never drew a 2nd combo piece or tutor. A single Thalia attacking every turn did about 12 or 14 dmg to me. NOTW would not have saved me either game but Toxic Deluge would have saved me G1 (I did board the NOTW in for G2, along with 2nd Toxic, 4th Needle, and Golgari charm). I should have swapped my Bojuka Bog for Karakas for G2 but I spaced and forgot.

R2: W vs Elves (2-0)
G1 I mull to 6 and get an explosive hand: Into The North, Thespian's stage, Lotus Petal, Lotus Petal, Urborg and a 6th card I cant remember. Played ITN turn one into a turn 2 token, turn 3 win. Elf player tried to combo since he knew he was dead but didn't draw any gas with his Glimpses. G2 I have another very fast hand with Petal, ESG, Hexmage, Dark Depths, Verdant and some tutors. I don't need the tutors as I make a turn 2 token with Hexmage and Depths for a T3 win again.
I sided in 2 Spheres, 2nd Toxic and Golgari charm. I brought in Dryad Arbor over Bojuka bog in case he had Diabolic Edict in his SB.

R3: L vs Infect (0-2)
G1 I played Hexmage turn 2 off a petal and Bayou before making my land drop (depths in hand) and he almost let it go through but he realized he should FoW it. Next turn he comes in with Two Invigorates and a Berserk on Glistener Elf for the win.
G2: Again I can't get through his counter magic and he wins on T3 with 2x Invigorate and Berserk again. He had the nut draw both games, but I guess I should have mulled for some Discard, as I didn't have any T1 disruption either game. First time playing vs Infect with this deck, I kept hands with resiliency but no disruption. Didn't expect to lose T3 each game from 0 infect to lethal. Maybe I should have boarded in Spheres for this matchup?

R4:W vs MUD-Post (2-0)
G1: I am on the play and keep a strong hand with Thoughtseize, Crop Rotate, Thespian's stage, Urborg, Lotus Petal, Verdant. T1 Thoughtseize grabs his Chalice,and his other cards are just Mana-Artifacts and lands. I make the token at the end of his T2 and Attack for the win T3.
G2: He plays a land and passes T1, I have another good hand with Dark Depths, Hexmage, Duress, Lotus Petal, Crop Rotate and B/G lands. I play Duress T1 and take a Sphere of Resistance. Proceed to combo pretty easily after that as he doesn't draw any answers or threats, just mana rocks and Eye of Ugin when it was too late.

R5: W vs UB Reanimator (2-0)
G1: We both slow each other down with T1 Thoughtseizes, but eventually when he tries to combo I have Crop Rotate ----> Bojuka Bog and he didn't have a counter to back himself up.
G2: Again a pretty slow game after some T1 Discard from both sides. He had an Echoing Truth for my first ML token, then he plays a Pithing Needle on Stage before I could assemble my next combo, and lays a 2nd Needle on Hexmage the next turn. He spends a few turns digging for his combo pieces, but doesn't have much luck. By the time he starts to set up I had a Bojuka Bog again and a Surgical Extraction in hand too. I end up winning the game with 2 x Elvish Spirit Guide and a Hexmage attacking (I boarded out my Abrupts after G1, so couldn't destroy the Needles, whoops).


I liked having the Abrupt Decay + Toxic Deluge maindeck but I'd say it remains a meta call.

[adrieng]

Still testing stuff and I think I have found a nice tech in diabolic intent wih blisterpod along khalni garden and cabal therapy ; it allows to find hate against combo or against opponents hate. I do tink it is an improvment of the deck, but I need more testing to see if I confimr my tests.
So here is my latest one :



// 60 Maindeck
// 7 Artifact
4 Expedition Map
3 Pithing Needle

// 8 Creature
4 Vampire Hexmage
4 Blisterpod

// 4 Instant
4 Crop Rotation

// 25 Land
4 Thespian's Stage
4 Dark Depths
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Khalni Garden
1 Maze of Ith
1 Sejiri Steppe
1 Ghost Quarter
4 Blooming Marsh
2 Llanowar Wastes

// 16 Sorcery
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Gitaxian Probe
4 Diabolic Intent
3 Duress
2 Toxic Deluge


// 15 Sideboard
// 3 Artifact
SB: 1 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 2 Sphere of Resistance

// 5 Enchantment
SB: 2 Dread of Night
SB: 3 Seal of Primordium

// 4 Instant
SB: 4 Surgical Extraction

// 3 Land
SB: 1 Bojuka Bog
SB: 1 Maze of Ith
SB: 1 Forest




EDIT : tested a bit the list but it seems that it is better to play stuff good on his own so back to previous list

[downtoonelife]

Went 5-0 last Saturday in a side event in GP Manila.

Round 1 vs Sneak Attack 2-1
Round 2 vs Elves 2-0
Round 3 vs Aggro Loam 2-0
Round 4 vs Moon Stompy 2-0
Round 5 vs Infect 2-1

Decklist:

3 Verdant Catacomb
4 Dark Depths
3 Bayou
4 Thespian Stage
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Sejiri Steppe
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Maze of Ith
1 Forest
1 Swamp

4 Lotus Petal

4 Pithing Needle
3 Duress
4 Thoughtseize

2 Expedition Map
4 Crop Rotation
4 Sylvan Scrying

3 Sylvan Safekeeper
4 Vampire Hexmage
4 Dark Confidant

1 Sylvan Library

Sb:
1 Glacial Chasm
4 Abrupt Decay
2 Golgari Charm
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Toxic Deluge
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Rite of Consumption

[chaosjace]

Went 5-0 last Saturday in a side event in GP Manila.

Round 1 vs Sneak Attack 2-1
Round 2 vs Elves 2-0
Round 3 vs Aggro Loam 2-0
Round 4 vs Moon Stompy 2-0
Round 5 vs Infect 2-1

Decklist:

3 Verdant Catacomb
4 Dark Depths
3 Bayou
4 Thespian Stage
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Sejiri Steppe
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Maze of Ith
1 Forest
1 Swamp

4 Lotus Petal

4 Pithing Needle
3 Duress
4 Thoughtseize

2 Expedition Map
4 Crop Rotation
4 Sylvan Scrying

3 Sylvan Safekeeper
4 Vampire Hexmage
4 Dark Confidant

1 Sylvan Library

Sb:
1 Glacial Chasm
4 Abrupt Decay
2 Golgari Charm
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Toxic Deluge
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Rite of Consumption

Congrats!
This is an interesting list, I considered dark confidant briefly but never tested him. How was Safekeeper? Did it work in place of Not of this world? How was your Sneak match up?

[downtoonelife]

Congrats!
This is an interesting list, I considered dark confidant briefly but never tested him. How was Safekeeper? Did it work in place of Not of this world? How was your Sneak match up?

Thank you. Sylvan Safekeeper was merely a blocker during this tournament. There was no instance were my Avatar token got targeted. It help me during my Infect match up blocking Glistener Elf and wasting my opponents pump spell just so he can let his elf live. I used him before (back in page 84) and he was very helpful that's why I haven't remove him yet in my list. With my Sneak Show match up - Game 1 his cantrips didn't find any creature when he had Sneak Attack already in the battlefield until I had the Vampire Depths combo. During game 2 he had a turn 2 Show and Tell and drop Emrakul - I concede with only 2 permanents in play. Game 3 I top deck a Duress on my turn 2 and discard his Show and Tell which he could have played on his 2nd turn with an Emrakul in hand. I had the combo afterwards and won.

[chaosjace]

I just sleeved up your list for some goldfishing and it feels really powerful, replacing spirit guides with confidant really fixes (or gives you a chance to fix) the all gas draws, also is more fodder for edicts. I believe confidant adds some consistency to this list. Can't wait to test it against real decks.

[TonyTaormina]

Tested out safekeeper last week and as much as the card seems like a bad choice it actually won me a match protecting ML. The thing I like about it over cards like steely resolve etc is that it only costs one mana, its edict bait, it protects itself and both marit lage and hexmage, also I feel you can drop it early game and your opponents are pressured into dealing with it or late game as added protection. The match I won my opponent tried to swords ML twice and flickerwisp once all in one turn -- I sacked 3 lands and then killed him.

Has anyone tested tajuru preserver for edict spells/abilities? I was also thinking there have been times against sneak/show where i made a token and then my opponent just attacked with annihilator and then had to sac everything and lose...

Also has anyone tested against the new miracles builds? I feel like there's just enough time before GP Vegas that ppl are gonna test out and be on it for Vegas just wondering any thoughts on the matchup / sideboarding...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Nealdrox]

I e played against the new Miracles build a good bit. It isn't nearly as bad as it used to be. I always made sure to have my fetch available in case I ever got stuck under a Jace Fateseal. Not of this world is still great in the matchup.

[DNSolver]

I played against the new Miracles deck in the Legacy Challenge on May 28th. It's on my Youtube channel. Be aware that the video starts out very slow because my opponent is double-queued - jump about ten minutes ahead.

The tl;dr of the matchup is G1 is still sad times, hard to win because they have so many answers. Needle can only go on Jace, their maybe 1-of Karakas, and fetchlands, so I ended up boarding one out instead of going to 4 in the deck. I forget how I boarded and I'm starting work now, so I can't go back and watch it for awhile. But G2 and G3 were decided pretty much immediately by Sylvan Library resolving on turn 2.

[Darkgobs]

I played against the new Miracles deck in the Legacy Challenge on May 28th. It's on my Youtube channel. Be aware that the video starts out very slow because my opponent is double-queued - jump about ten minutes ahead.
The tl;dr of the matchup is G1 is still sad times, hard to win because they have so many answers. Needle can only go on Jace, their maybe 1-of Karakas, and fetchlands, so I ended up boarding one out instead of going to 4 in the deck. I forget how I boarded and I'm starting work now, so I can't go back and watch it for awhile. But G2 and G3 were decided pretty much immediately by Sylvan Library resolving on turn 2.

Speaking of Sylvan Library, in which other match-ups are you siding those in? Because it seems to me that the "control" decks (Shardless and Unexpected Miracle) are really less present now. So my question is: are thoses 3 slots for Library still worth it in the more control-low meta we seems to have at the moment?

And also, would you guys who are running 1 Sylvan MD not think that that one-of could be replaced by other cards, like, for example, an Abrupt Decay?

[Nealdrox]

I bring in Library against BUG also. Between the wastelands and hymns. You really need the extra juice to get going again after they smack you.

[DNSolver]

@Darkgobs, but Re: Sylvan Library for everyone

Sylvan Library comes in against Blood Moon decks to dig while under the lock.

Sylvan Library comes in against Storm and Sneak and Show, to find additional discard while threatening your own combo.

Sylvan Library is excellent against Stoneblade and Death and Taxes.

Sylvan Library is excellent against the new Miracles deck, which is climbing the ranks of popularity once again.

Sylvan Library is fine against the Hymn BUG decks (Shardless, True-Name, and Delver) because it's a great topdeck, and they're trying to put you into topdeck mode.

[Darkgobs]

@Darkgobs, but Re: Sylvan Library for everyone

Sylvan Library comes in against Blood Moon decks to dig while under the lock.

Sylvan Library comes in against Storm and Sneak and Show, to find additional discard while threatening your own combo.

Sylvan Library is excellent against Stoneblade and Death and Taxes.

Sylvan Library is excellent against the new Miracles deck, which is climbing the ranks of popularity once again.

Sylvan Library is fine against the Hymn BUG decks (Shardless, True-Name, and Delver) because it's a great topdeck, and they're trying to put you into topdeck mode.

Well, that was quick, clear and complete. Thanks! :smile:

[Slacker1348]

I've played many variations of Dark Depths over the years, it's one of my favorite cards. I'm trying to decide between Depths and Sneak/Show for GP Vegas. One of the big things, I feel my list has a much better Grixis matchup, than S&S does. Our combo doesn't get discarded, or countered, and I like that a lot with Grixis being, what I believe to be, the most played deck in the room. Anyways, I'm still looking for sideboard cards, here's the list. It's a little more midrangey, and has a plan B of DRS/Tracker Beatdowns, but can still just jam Marit Lage and win.

Depths w/ Tracker
Main Deck (60)
Lands (28)
4 Dark Depths
1 Swamp
3 Bayou
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Sejiri Steppe
1 Forest
1 Maze of Ith
4 Thespian's Stage
3 Wasteland
1 Ghost Quarter
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

Creatures (12)
4 Tireless Tracker
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Vampire Hexmage

Spells (20)
2 Abrupt Decay
4 Crop Rotation
2 Thoughtseize
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Toxic Deluge
4 Sylvan Scrying
3 Duress

Sideboard (13)
SB: 1 Karakas
SB: 1 Maze of Ith
SB: 1 Sylvan Library
SB: 3 Pithing Needle
SB: 1 Abrupt Decay
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 Golgari Charm
SB: 1 Krosan Grip
SB: 1 Maelstrom Pulse
SB: 1 Toxic Deluge
SB: 2 ????

I've thought about a Life from the Loam in the board, for a wasteland lock against certain decks, but those deck are usually playing DRS and can just eat our targets, so maybe not. Still fleshing out the board, I see a lot of lists run Chalice, but I sadly don't own any anymore. And my deck has no way to turn one a chalice, which I think is important out of the board.

Any thoughts or suggestions on the sideboard are much appreciated.

[cavalrywolfpack]

Between all the sideboard discussion and Legacy falling to the wayside for me, I desperately need help updating my list. I'm not going to lie, I have no real idea what I should be doing anymore.
// GB Turbo Depths

// 60 Maindeck
// 10 Artifact
2 Expedition Map
4 Lotus Petal
4 Pithing Needle

// 8 Creature
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Vampire Hexmage

// 7 Instant
4 Crop Rotation
3 Not of This World

// 23 Land
1 Bayou
1 Bojuka Bog
4 Dark Depths
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Sejiri Steppe
4 Thespian's Stage
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Blooming Marsh
1 Forest
1 Swamp

// 12 Sorcery
2 Duress
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Sylvan Scrying
4 Thoughtseize


// 15 Sideboard
// 2 Enchantment
SB: 2 Sylvan Library

// 5 Instant
SB: 3 Abrupt Decay
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction

// 3 Land
SB: 1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
SB: 1 Karakas
SB: 1 Mishra's Factory

// 5 Sorcery
SB: 2 Toxic Deluge
SB: 3 Rite of Consumption

Thank you for your help!

[chaosjace]

Between all the sideboard discussion and Legacy falling to the wayside for me, I desperately need help updating my list. I'm not going to lie, I have no real idea what I should be doing anymore.
// GB Turbo Depths

// 60 Maindeck
// 10 Artifact
2 Expedition Map
4 Lotus Petal
4 Pithing Needle

// 8 Creature
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Vampire Hexmage

// 7 Instant
4 Crop Rotation
3 Not of This World

// 23 Land
1 Bayou
1 Bojuka Bog
4 Dark Depths
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Sejiri Steppe
4 Thespian's Stage
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Blooming Marsh
1 Forest
1 Swamp

// 12 Sorcery
2 Duress
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Sylvan Scrying
4 Thoughtseize


// 15 Sideboard
// 2 Enchantment
SB: 2 Sylvan Library

// 5 Instant
SB: 3 Abrupt Decay
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction

// 3 Land
SB: 1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
SB: 1 Karakas
SB: 1 Mishra's Factory

// 5 Sorcery
SB: 2 Toxic Deluge
SB: 3 Rite of Consumption

Thank you for your help!


What is your meta like? Full of combo or control or both? neither?

I played pretty much your list with a different sideboard, and I played 4 blooming marsh main deck because I didn't want to pick up bayou mainly, and the deck doesn't NEED it necessarily. But my maindeck now looks like

4x Vampire Hexmage
4x Dark Depths
4x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4x Thespian Stage
4x Crop Rotation

4x Sylvan Scrying
4x Dark Confidant
1x Sylvan Library
3x Sylvan Safekeeper
4x Lotus Petal
4x Thoughtseize

3x Duress
4x Pithing Needle
3x Blooming Marsh
1x Forest
1x Swamp
1x Overgrown Tomb (because I specifically play black border cards)
2x Verdant Catacombs
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Maze of Ith
1x Seijiri Steppe
2x Abrupt Decay

[ComplexPants]

Besides storm, what decks do you play sphere against? When ever I play the card I feel like I regret it. I am wondering whether it is just better to play lost legacy.

[DNSolver]

What are you looking to name with Lost Legacy against:

a) Storm - Tutor? They draw a card for every one in their hand, which can find them a natural Ad Naus. Besides, they have Petition too. This matchup is the reason I'm wanting Sphere anyway, so the fact that Lost Legacy isn't great here (and that it can't be played turn 1 very easily) really hurts it for me.
b) Sneak and Show - Postboard, there are 2 creatures, 2 enablers, and Blood Moon. I don't think we need help in this matchup though, and I didn't bring in Sphere before.
c) other decks - Swords to Plowshares vs new Miracles or Stoneblade might be fine?

Something I have noticed is that Sphere of Resistance should probably be Thorn of Amethyst because I have been unable to cast Hexmage on two lands vs Storm before... We don't bring it in vs Elves so making creatures cost more is meh. I guess Tinder Wall out of Belcher or something? But that's not really where you want to consider upsides.

[Negator77']

What are you looking to name with Lost Legacy against:

a) Storm - Tutor? They draw a card for every one in their hand, which can find them a natural Ad Naus. Besides, they have Petition too. This matchup is the reason I'm wanting Sphere anyway, so the fact that Lost Legacy isn't great here (and that it can't be played turn 1 very easily) really hurts it for me.


Not that I'm a fan of Lost Legacy at all, but the name against ANT has to be Tendrils right? Depths can often race Empty if they have it in at all. Most players I've hit with surgical haven't had Empty in the deck post board anyway.

[ComplexPants]

I am just never happy with the card and it feels like one of those cards you have to dedicate 3-4 sideboard slots for. Thorn may be better, but not in love with a tax that slows down a fast combo. I am not sure what would be better. Almost debating leylines.

I had to take a break for a while because of work, looking to get back into things again. Sadly can't make the legacy part of GP Vegas.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[MDHackbert]

Not that I'm a fan of Lost Legacy at all, but the name against ANT has to be Tendrils right? Depths can often race Empty if they have it in at all. Most players I've hit with surgical haven't had Empty in the deck post board anyway.

I would name Tendrils there. When playing LL in Nic Fit, I try to name the payoff, not the enablers. I.e. Craterhoof, Tendrils, etc.

[DNSolver]

Tested Sylvan Safekeeper today in place of Not of This World (in the maindeck) and it felt fine. Archive is on my twitch. I tried it mostly because of the rise of Diabolic Edict and the uselessness of Not of This World when you either a) don't have a 20/20 or b) are playing against any deck without Swords or Karakas. I think Safekeeper is just better against Death and Taxes when you have time to play out your lands, and if you make every land drop you should be able to go off into 3-4 targeted effects even after losing 2 lands to the combo. Revoker does hit it, but I am bringing in Decays so...

Someone in chat suggested something pretty funny - a sideboard full of pro-white creatures. Considering this as a remote possibility, here's what the board might look like:

4 Sphere, 2 Surgical - can't leave home without these, I think...
4 Decay - too good not to play
1 Karakas - fit this into the maindeck over something to make room?

Leaves only 4-5 slots as long as you play Decay and combo hate. If you instead assume the combo matchups are good enough, let's say you can make room for 8 slots. 8 pro-white creatures would be annoying for Miracles and Death and Taxes. Here are the best ones, in order:

Stromgald Crusader
Black Knight
Knight of Infamy
Stillmoon Cavalier (3 mana puts it a bit lower on the list, because of Counterspell)
Order of the Ebon Hand / Knight of Stromgald (same card)

I don't think these are really playable because you won't be able to hit BB on turn 2 half the time, especially after cutting the fast mana vs D+T and Miracles.

Just an interesting idea, not one I'm likely to pursue though, because I think I need the combo hate.

[ComplexPants]

Well I played in a EW Trial today and I think I had my worst showing ever with this deck. 1-4, ugh. I felt super rusty playing and just got stuck against tough match ups and had variance kick me in the teeth.

Match 1: Grixis delver. 2-1

Match 2: D&T. 0-2. I totally spaced on not being able to respond to a revoker naming cards, and had my 2 maps locked down.

Match 3: Nic Fit. 0-2. Again totally spaced and forgot that KoTR could fetch a wasteland, while my brain would only remember karakas

Match 4: Big Red. 0-2. Both games turn 1 blood moon. Second game I managed to Thoughtseize one away and he just topped decked another.

Match 5: ANT. 1-2. Both games I lost was from a lucky top deck of Ad nausem, where I was going to combo kill the next turn.

I have officially seen the highs and lows of this deck lol. Fun bit, the Grixis delver I played against made top 8.

[chaosjace]

Just run dread of night or massacre against DnT

[ComplexPants]

I hadn't seen it at the store I was playing agianst, so I didn't bring it. Bad choice lol.

Also that nic fit player flashed in a mind censor game 1 against me on my turn 2, I was not expecting that at all.

[chaosjace]

Just played a small tournament.
Round 1 vs omnishow 2-1
Sphere of resistance does real work turns out
Round 2 vs RG lands 0-2
I had the tools I needed, but he had more. Lots of fun pithing needle and stage shenanigans
Round 3 Vs aluren 2-0
Needle on cavern harpy is a thing
Round 4 ID
Played for fun against the guy, he was on sylvan plug 2-1
Round 5 vs infect
1-2
long game, couldn't get there

Overall
Dark confidant did so much work, very happy. Safekeeper was way more useful than I imagined. Made one game losing mistake like an idiot, in my ID fun match I chump blocked a kotr with safekeeper because he had karakas out..... never again. I had the combo out also

[DNSolver]

Just got 9th in the Legacy challenge on breakers. Decklist was same as before but -3 Not of This World, +3 Sylvan Safekeeper. I wanted to try Safekeeper because it works against Edict effects as well as Swords/Karakas/Flickerwisp/Jace. It also can randomly block. Can be hit by Revoker but we will see.

R1: ANT 0-2
R2: High Tide 2-1
R3: Mono-black Pox 2-0
R4: Miracles (Truckis) 2-1 opponent misclicked in G1, cost him the game. Sylvan Safekeeper won G3 single-handedly
R5: Burn 2-1
R6: UR Delver 2-0
R7: Eldrazi 0-2 (named Wasteland on t1 Needle but opponent had Ghost Quarter instead, probably budget... still almost got there but my opponent found a Jitte to gain life and kill me on the crackback)

So I feel fine about that. Sylvan Safekeeper instead of Not of This World was relevant against Pox (edict effects), and an all-star against Miracles. I'm excited to play him going forward. Eldrazi matchup should be fine, lost because of unusual card choices rather than deck construction or play error (I think, might have made a mistake somewhere). Against ANT I kept t1 urborg thoughtseize t2 depths hexmage on the play, but my opponent had:

Dark Ritual x2
Cabal Ritual
Brainstorm
Git Probe
Past in Flames
Underground Sea

I took Brainstorm, but my opponent git probed and found Dark Petition for LED.

Still considering moving Spheres out for Mindbreak Traps.

[Slacker1348]

// 60 Maindeck
// 4 Artifact
4 Pithing Needle

// 8 Creature
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Vampire Hexmage

// 6 Instant
2 Abrupt Decay
4 Crop Rotation

// 28 Land
3 Bayou
4 Dark Depths
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Sejiri Steppe
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
4 Thespian's Stage
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Wasteland
1 Maze of Ith
1 Forest
1 Swamp
1 Karakas

// 14 Sorcery
2 Duress
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Sylvan Scrying
2 Thoughtseize
2 Toxic Deluge


// 15 Sideboard
SB: 2 Faerie Macabre
SB: 2 Dread of Night
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 Abrupt Decay
SB: 1 Golgari Charm
SB: 1 Krosan Grip
SB: 1 Maze of Ith
SB: 1 Bojuka Bog
SB: 2 Lost Legacy
SB: 2 Rite of Consumption



I'm considering cutting the DRS for 3xSafekeeper and +1 Duress, just on occasion, there are times I want to Pithing Needle DRS and it hurts me a little. I do like that DRS can act as ramp, and make mana under blood moon, save Depths from Surgical. And all around be the best 1 drop in the format.

Is Lost Legacy not good enough? Should I just pack on the extra discard for Storm? I feel lost legacy should probably just be 2x thoughtseize?

EDIT:
Some of the card choices might seem weird, but I do have a very good Grixis/D&T matchup with Wasteland+Tab(Grixis, more so) and MD Decays/Deluge vs D&T. MD Karakas to hedge against Sneak/Show.

Only SD card I'm iffy on is Lost Legacy. So if you have better suggestions, please send them my way. My current board plan vs ANT is -1 Maze, -1 Karakas, -1 Needle -2 Deluge. +2 Surgical +2 Lost Legacy, +1 Bojuka Bog

[chaosjace]

What are you worried about that you would name with lost legacy? It might be decent if you play a slower game, but IMO the 3 cost makes it too slow. I would just go heavier on surgicals depending on your concern.

I've already slowed down enough with the addition of confidant.
I am considering a single life from the loam now just to buy back my ghost quarter, might make room for a single wasteland. I only lost to Rgcl because i had used my GQ and had no way to destroy a land, also wasn't drawing into my playset of needles in a timely fashion.

[Slacker1348]

What are you worried about that you would name with lost legacy? It might be decent if you play a slower game, but IMO the 3 cost makes it too slow. I would just go heavier on surgicals depending on your concern.

I've already slowed down enough with the addition of confidant.
I am considering a single life from the loam now just to buy back my ghost quarter, might make room for a single wasteland. I only lost to Rgcl because i had used my GQ and had no way to destroy a land, also wasn't drawing into my playset of needles in a timely fashion.

Lost Legacy: Show and Tell, Tendrils (Tabernacle just beats empty the warrens, Tendrils is their only real game against me) High Tide/Time Spiral, Alluren, Craterhoof Behemoth/Natural Order, and last but not least, Blood Moon! I bring it in against dredge cuz I have a lot of dead cards in G1. It's nice not having to wait for something to hit the yard to take it out of the game, and it has t2 potential in my list via DRS. Sometimes it's alright just to name Force. I'm a nicfit player at heart, and love casting slaughter games. I'm not trying to be turbo depths, I'm trying to be a little more resilient. Of course, I can just drop the nuts still.

It's a supplement to my discard package. If I get to surgical and look through their library, I can just outright name their best/scariest sideboard card, without have to discard it, or give them a chance to play it. I think it's alright as a one of, and am contemplating cutting one Lost Legacy for Glacial Chasm. We'll see what my last test run tomorrow tells me!

I've thought about loam too, but with all the DRS floating around, maybe it's not where you should be.

[chaosjace]

You seem to have enough valid targets, I mean definately test it.

Loam for me would be with the intention of one or two uses. I am not trying to fill my graveyard since most of the deck isn't lands. I guess the question becomes do I want to wait to re draw my combo or have a way to recur it. Eternal witness would also work but that might be going too far away from my goals.

I forgot to add highlights from my event also.
Round 1 my opponent cast show and tell, he put in omniscience, I put in sphere of resistance.
My one SB reverent silence took out 2 omniscience and a leyline of sanctity.
I also learned never swing against infect unless it's with lage.

[apple713]

@Darkgobs, but Re: Sylvan Library for everyone

Sylvan Library comes in against Blood Moon decks to dig while under the lock.

Sylvan Library comes in against Storm and Sneak and Show, to find additional discard while threatening your own combo.

Sylvan Library is excellent against Stoneblade and Death and Taxes.

Sylvan Library is excellent against the new Miracles deck, which is climbing the ranks of popularity once again.

Sylvan Library is fine against the Hymn BUG decks (Shardless, True-Name, and Delver) because it's a great topdeck, and they're trying to put you into topdeck mode.

Sylvan Library comes out against ANT / Storm in my experience. Against fast combo decks you need something with an immediate effect on the game when it is played. You don't have time to accumulate advantage with Library in those matches.


Besides storm, what decks do you play sphere against? When ever I play the card I feel like I regret it. I am wondering whether it is just better to play lost legacy.


Not that I'm a fan of Lost Legacy at all, but the name against ANT has to be Tendrils right? Depths can often race Empty if they have it in at all. Most players I've hit with surgical haven't had Empty in the deck post board anyway.

@ Lost Legacy

Rather than Lost legacy, I really like sadistic sacrament. It is slightly harder to cast but can also be better when you want to cast something but are not sure what to name. Against storm/ant it can be better since they have few threats but with various mames. Many times 3 cards is enough to get pesky blood moons or other problematic sb cards. Combined with discard it will often eliminate the 4 copies you would worry about. I personally dont think its necessary for the deck but id play it before lost legacy.

[Claymore]

Lost Legacy also completely eliminates Life from the Loam from Lands and Reanimator targets already in the yard, instead of having to dance around Surgical vs cycle lands. I was always a fan of it.

Certainly overlap when Surgical or other eliminators are involved, so probably a meta choice.

[Negator77']

Lost Legacy also completely eliminates Life from the Loam from Lands and Reanimator targets already in the yard, instead of having to dance around Surgical vs cycle lands. I was always a fan of it.

Certainly overlap when Surgical or other eliminators are involved, so probably a meta choice.

The problem in those match-ups are that it is slow. Could it be good, yeah if you live long enough to reap those benefits. Does it do nothing against their better draws, yup. If a card doesn't interact with being Waste/GQ locked early (or just never get to three mana) from lands or a t1-t2 reanimation spell, it's not the best choice for those mu's imo. Same goes for storm.

[Slacker1348]

Sylvan Library comes out against ANT / Storm in my experience. Against fast combo decks you need something with an immediate effect on the game when it is played. You don't have time to accumulate advantage with Library in those matches.





@ Lost Legacy

Rather than Lost legacy, I really like sadistic sacrament. It is slightly harder to cast but can also be better when you want to cast something but are not sure what to name. Against storm/ant it can be better since they have few threats but with various mames. Many times 3 cards is enough to get pesky blood moons or other problematic sb cards. Combined with discard it will often eliminate the 4 copies you would worry about. I personally dont think its necessary for the deck but id play it before lost legacy.

The mana cost is very restrictive on Sadistic Sacrament. That's my reason for not playing it. Triple black is hard to hit without Urborg, and lost legacy.

I know what I'm naming when I bring Lost Legacy in, if you don't know what you're naming, you shouldn't be playing the card, I guess. Maybe it could be something better, perhaps just 4 surgical. But I do have my reasons for playing the card.

[chaosjace]

i've had more problems not having green mana sometimes. triple black is easy with 4 urborg

[Lio]

Played with the three copies of Sylvan Safekeeper for the first time as a replacement for Not of this World and I am more than satisfied with the card. It singlehandedly won me match against Czech pile, where my opp. had edicts, liliana and PLENTY of removal. I think I sacrificed about 15 lands to keep my creatures as a fodder for edict effect meanwhile Marit Lage was bashing through his wall of Baleful Strixes recurred by Kolaghans command. Safekeeper was also very useful against Death and Taxes to keep Bobs alive and provide endless source of protection. I am thinking about Marsh Causalities as a -1/-1 or -2/-2 wrath effect instead of Dread of Nights.

[Kanti]

Can someone break down ESG vs DRS for me? DRS gets hit by your own Needle, and stops some faster t1 plays I think, but is the thought process that DRS is going to accelerate you t2 just as much as ESG would, and it's gonna stick around for later turns to do the same thing while offering minor utility?

Also, why don't I ever see a singleton Arbor played for Edict effects? Risk of slowing down a potential t2 win too much?

[ComplexPants]

ESG is secret mana. It can screw with people's timing a lot, allowing you to go off a turn earlier than expected. ESG lets you do turn 2 plays turn 1, which can be crucial to get
down a sphere, sylvan library, etc. It also is a great response to daze.

[filln]

Also, why don't I ever see a singleton Arbor played for Edict effects? Risk of slowing down a potential t2 win too much?

Dryad Arbor has been discussed in the past but Mishra's Factory is likely superior in most cases. Although Arbor can be fetched in response as a surprise, it also carries downsides: 1) easier to remove, 2) summoning sickness, 3) can't provide a clock or block as well.

[solnox]

Went 10-5 at GP Vegas with 2 byes with depths

Lost to BUG Delver, BUG control, Painter on Day 1. Lost to Elves and Food chain in Day 2.

Beat Eldrazi, Miracles, Sneak and Show, Tezzerator on Day 1. Beat Food Chain, Death and Taxes, Food chain, RB Reanimator.

I'll be posting my list a little later after I get some rest from the GP.

Lost to the 2 BUG decks topdecking Abrupt Decay on needles to save themselves

[DNSolver]

Just won the Legacy Challenge today with Dank Depths with 53 players. Small change to the sideboard:

4 Depths
4 Stage
3 Urborg
3 Bayou
4 Verdant
1 Forest
1 Swamp
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Sejiri Steppe
1 Ghost Quarter
4 Duress
4 Thoughtseize
3 Pithing Needle
4 Lotus Petal
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Sylvan Scrying
3 Expedition Map
4 Crop Rotation
3 Sylvan Safekeeper
4 Vampire Hexmage

SB:
4 Mindbreak Trap (intended for Storm with side use against BR Reanimator, Belcher)
4 Abrupt Decay
1 Pithing Needle
1 Karakas
2 Surgical Extraction
3 Sylvan Library

R1: Grixis Delver (LewisCBR) 2-0
R2: ANT (Surfinbird) 0-2. Didn't find a Mindbreak Trap, kept a double discard plus Library hand on the play in G2. I think I screwed up my discard this game, should have taken his Duress to enable my Library to resolve on turn 2.
R3: Grixis Delver 2-0
R4: ANT 2-0 Probably got lucky here. Didn't see Mindbreak Trap, but discard and holding up Crop Rot -> Bog slowed him down enough.
R5: Elves 2-0. Randomly brought in Mindbreak Trap figuring I could counter a Natural Order with it. I ended up seeing my opponent's hand with a Duress and casting Mindbreak Trap on a GSZ, denying him lethal when he Natural Order'd for Craterhoof on the next turn (I blocked). On the even more plus side, my opponent sent me a nice message that I screenshot for posterity.
R6: BUG Depths (Negator77) 2-0 We prize split, then played it out. I had a fast Hexmage opener in G1 and a turn 2 Library in G2, while he missed on interaction. Negator did sneak into top 8 and got top 4!

Quarterfinals: Eldrazi Ramp 2-0. Not much they can do in this matchup. In both games he gained life to go above 20, but didn't find mana in G1 or All is Dust / Ulamog in G2 to kill the token.

Semifinals: Grixis Delver 2-1. Lost G1 to a Delver flipped on turn 2, accompanied by 2 Wastelands, while I didn't have a Needle. The other two games were close, but I kept decent hands and sideboarded well on the play/draw.

Finals: Miracles 2-0. The ultimate end-boss: ItIsUnfair. G1 was decided by my opponent missing their 2nd land drop for a turn, as well as me having 3 Vampire Hexmages to threaten the combo every turn, starting on turn 3. One Lage got killed through Crop Rotation for Steppe, the 2nd hexmage got force'd, but the third lage got there. G2 was decided by me resolving Sylvan Safekeeper on the combo turn, letting me answer everything, while a Crop Rotation for Bog stopped Snapcaster from flashing back Brainstorm (I assume for Terminus on top, anything else wouldn't have beaten Safekeeper).

The deck still seems sweet, and I wouldn't change anything. Still undecided on Mindbreak Trap. Sylvan Safekeeper only got a chance to shine against Miracles, but it changed the game entirely. It might have stopped an edict in one of the Delver games, but I don't know for sure.

[Nocley]

Grats, a bit interesting on the SB - 3 library seems a bit heavy, does it lead to a bit of overboarding in some cases, with the Decay? Or are there just no matchups really where you'd want both?

[DNSolver]

You don't often want Library and Decay. The best example of a deck where you do want both is Stoneblade, where your plan of squeezing in an attack with a 20/20 ASAP looks kind of embarrassing against Swords to Plowshares as well as Stoneforge -> lifegain equipment -> gaining life above 20. So in that matchup I'm taking out all 8 fast mana anyway, so I can bring in lots of cards.

Against the new Miracles deck, the fast mana is pretty bad and the Needles aren't great either, so I am often able to fit in Decays to deal with Blood Moon / Back to Basics / fast Mentor. Sylvan obviously comes in against them too, it's extremely powerful now that they don't have the best card selection in the format anymore.

[ComplexPants]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DCtUXSvUIAArDYV.png

This seems bonkers good and bad for us. We have another Depths enabler but can be used against us as well.

I am not sure if this is a main deck card or not, but it has so many uses against so many decks. Short list I came up with:

Copy mom and give protection.
Copy show and tell fatties and attack
Copy opposing dark depths/Karakas/Maze
Copy Leovold to stop a ponder/brainstorm
Copy Grindstone to mill out a painter deck

I am sure there are lots more of cute things you can do with this card. The 3 cmc cost is a bit high, but seems to potentially create a lot of very awkward interactions and more complicated lines for decks.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[apple713]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DCtUXSvUIAArDYV.png

This seems bonkers good and bad for us. We have another Depths enabler but can be used against us as well.

I am not sure if this is a main deck card or not, but it has so many uses against so many decks. Short list I came up with:

Copy mom and give protection.
Copy show and tell fatties and attack
Copy opposing dark depths/Karakas/Maze
Copy Leovold to stop a ponder/brainstorm
Copy Grindstone to mill out a painter deck

I am sure there are lots more of cute things you can do with this card. The 3 cmc cost is a bit high, but seems to potentially create a lot of very awkward interactions and more complicated lines for decks.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think it actually hurts us more than helps. It seems like a card u would put into a control deck to counter different things. Its rather slow for legacy. This card makes it harder for us to combo if opposing players are playing it. They could just copy the token and block ours, they wouldnt even have to copy the land. Sure we can sejiri through it but thats just another hoop.

Its slower than hexmage, equally as vulnerable. Probably too slow against D&T. Meh vs painter because they'll just make sure they play grindstone on the turn they use it and it wont help us since we'll draw before they do.

It has a lot of uses but idk that we'll use it.

The One thing i do like about it is that it lets us switch out of black entirely if we like without giving up to much power. The deck could go green + anything. Blue is the most likely option because we'd still need protection against combo. It can be recurred with academy ruins too.

I am slightly more excited about making it work in a green white shell. When I tried making BGW version work, white couldnt work with the mana costs of hexmage and some of the other cards. Being able to cut black opens up some possibilities.

GW suggest some sort of aggro version. You could encompass GSZ, Knight of the reliquary, Gaddock Teeg (against combo).

[Scott]

Its slower than hexmage, equally as vulnerable.

Even more vulnerable; while both turn on counter magic, Hexmage's ability isn't vulnerable to removal, but opponents can respond to Mirage Mirror's ability with removal and stop it. Mirror's less affected by Stifle, but that shouldn't outweigh the other point.

[ComplexPants]

I get that is it slower and more vulnerable, but it is also very versatile.

It may not be a 100% card, but I think a single copy may make its way into the main. I do think it is interesting to use it instead of hexmage for a GW or GU shell.

[apple713]

Now this card, if it works like I think, would be significantly better than that mirror I think. You would have to play the depths after this was in play so depths woudlnt enter with counters on it but then it would be in play with no counters and immediately triggered. You could also cast this then eot crop rotation eot if you wanna do it that way.

It would support the white version obviously and would be reusable in a way that hexmage is not. It can't attack, but its ability is somewhat relevant too.

https://images1.mtggoldfish.com/uploads/6715596e-4f26-4e31-a6bc-a3be77dc5c6c/Solemnity%20%5BHOU%5D.png

[hovercraft]

Now this card, if it works like I think, would be significantly better than that mirror I think. You would have to play the depths after this was in play so depths woudlnt enter with counters on it but then it would be in play with no counters and immediately triggered. You could also cast this then eot crop rotation eot if you wanna do it that way.

It would support the white version obviously and would be reusable in a way that hexmage is not. It can't attack, but its ability is somewhat relevant too.

https://images1.mtggoldfish.com/uploads/6715596e-4f26-4e31-a6bc-a3be77dc5c6c/Solemnity%20%5BHOU%5D.png

I like this more than the Mirror. Anti-infect tech as well.

[ComplexPants]

That looks really good with KoTR. Both are tutorable from enlightened tutor as well.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Deadeye_Mongoose]

would it be worth running Glacial Chasm in the main/side if running Solemnity?

[ComplexPants]

would it be worth running Glacial Chasm in the main/side if running this card?

"This card" meaning mirror? Seems like you would only get the benefit for one turn and 2 mana. You would need a recursion engine to make it work.

[Climax]

"This card" meaning mirror? Seems like you would only get the benefit for one turn and 2 mana. You would need a recursion engine to make it work.



i guess he was speaking about Solemnity. ; )

[RThomas-]

Now this card, if it works like I think, would be significantly better than that mirror I think. You would have to play the depths after this was in play so depths woudlnt enter with counters on it but then it would be in play with no counters and immediately triggered.[/IMG]

By parsing the rules texts, it doesn't seem like it works that way. This might be because the operative word "get" would not affect Depths' enters-the-battlefield-with text. I would think of "get" as adding counters when it is already in play, not as changing its enters play. I had a similar situation with Melira, Sylvok Outcast in casual play once and we came to that conclusion. Any rule kings parse this more better?

[Claymore]

Solemnity works with Dark Depths. Depths has a replacement effect (If it would enter the battlefield, put X counters on it instead).

There's a description in the RG lands thread. Solemnity kills Walking Ballista as well.

Wrong color and slow for this deck, but with Knight and plenty of enchantments/artifacts that can benefit from this ability, I can see a new WG Enchantress Depths deck coming out of the wood works, fueled by Crop Rotation and Enlightened Tutor.


121.6. Some spells and abilities refer to counters being put on an object. This refers to putting counters on that object while it’s on the battlefield and also to an object that’s given counters as it enters the battlefield.

[MDHackbert]

I went 4-0 in an LCQ for Vegas getting me 2 byes for the main event in which I had a record of 11-4. Net result was 13-4 in actually played matches.
List is Negator's most recent list with Hydroblast and Factory in the board. I can add it in if people really want.

LCQ:
W: Grixis Delver
W: MUD Post
W: Food Chain
W: Elves

GP Main Event:
Day 1: 6-3
2 Byes
W: Turbo Depths (Beat our own caseyc, #sorrynotsorry :tongue:)
L: Unexpected Miracles
L: Mono-Red Sneak Attack
W: Bant? Stoneblade
W: RG Lands
W: RG Lands
L: ANT

Day 2: 5-1
W: Mono-Red Sneak Attack
W: Elves
W: Burn (forgot to SB Hydroblast, won anyway)
L: TES
W: Esper Stoneblade
W: ANT

I don't take good notes, but i can try to remember details if someone has questions.
Factory didn't have much opportunity to come in outside of the one delver match in the LCQ, and i never saw edict from him.

[ComplexPants]

I went 4-0 in an LCQ for Vegas getting me 2 byes for the main event in which I had a record of 11-4. Net result was 13-4 in actually played matches.
List is Negator's most recent list with Hydroblast and Factory in the board. I can add it in if people really want.

LCQ:
W: Grixis Delver
W: MUD Post
W: Food Chain
W: Elves

GP Main Event:
Day 1: 6-3
2 Byes
W: Turbo Depths (Beat our own caseyc, #sorrynotsorry :tongue:)
L: Unexpected Miracles
L: Mono-Red Sneak Attack
W: Bant? Stoneblade
W: RG Lands
W: RG Lands
L: ANT

Day 2: 5-1
W: Mono-Red Sneak Attack
W: Elves
W: Burn (forgot to SB Hydroblast, won anyway)
L: TES
W: Esper Stoneblade
W: ANT

I don't take good notes, but i can try to remember details if someone has questions.
Factory didn't have much opportunity to come in outside of the one delver match in the LCQ, and i never saw edict from him.

Congrats, that is a great day 2 showing! I was there for the modern event, but couldn't make legacy. Bob Huang posted the top 64 and 2 GB Depths made it in there. I played a LCQ in legacy (for modern byes) and went 3-1. I actually lost to Bob, which is a bit of payback for EW. I beat him in the finals of the LCQ to get byes for that event. Lol. In the side events I played, I was 7-3 over all. Deck still works well and looks like we might be getting a couple new toys on HoD.

[PeterSouth]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DCtUXSvUIAArDYV.png

This seems bonkers good and bad for us. We have another Depths enabler but can be used against us as well.

I am not sure if this is a main deck card or not, but it has so many uses against so many decks. Short list I came up with:

Copy mom and give protection.
Copy show and tell fatties and attack
Copy opposing dark depths/Karakas/Maze
Copy Leovold to stop a ponder/brainstorm
Copy Grindstone to mill out a painter deck

I am sure there are lots more of cute things you can do with this card. The 3 cmc cost is a bit high, but seems to potentially create a lot of very awkward interactions and more complicated lines for decks.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I currently run 4 ancient stirrings in my deck, so I'm excited about having more potential hits. Maybe mirror could get people rethinking ancient stirrings. Also, how does mirror interact with a pithing needle?

[MDHackbert]

I currently run 4 ancient stirrings in my deck, so I'm excited about having more potential hits. Maybe mirror could get people rethinking ancient stirrings. Also, how does mirror interact with a pithing needle?

A mirror copying a Needle shouldn't stop anything, just like a copy of painful truths put on the stack draws no cards. Needle mirror stops mirror from copying. Needle on mirror's target stops mirror from activating once a copy of whatever mirror is copying.

Questions?

[tarmogoat]

Is Solemnity a good reason to start running Deathrite Shaman in the mainboard? I mean as a mana dork, alt grindy wincon, protection from surgical, and answer to gy shenanigans. Having it MB and splashing white also gives access to Enlightened Tutor and Knight of the Reliquary, which in addition give access to finding Needles, Maps and Solemnities when you need em and having instant speed answers/protection through our lands.

Something like


4x Elvish Spirit Guide
3x Pithing Needle
3x Sylvan Safekeeper
4x Deathrite Shaman
2x Enlightened Tutor
3x Solemnity
4x Thoughtseize
4x Duress
4x Crop Rotation
3x Expedition Map
3x Knight of the Reliquary

4x Dark Depths
3x Thespian's Stage
2x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4x Verdant Catacombs
2x Bayou
1x Scrubland
1x Savannah
1x Forest
1x Swamp
1x Sejiri Steppe
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Ghost Quarter
1x Karakas

1x Pithing Needle
2x Surgical Extraction
1x Grafdigger's Cage
4x Abrupt Decay
3x Sylvan Library
4x Thorn of Amethyst


This might be going a in an altogether different direction from the concept of "Turbo" depths, but it seems like it can be a very rewarding path to take.

I know it's the spoiler season hype, but HOU seems to have some absurd mechanics in regards of not getting counters on permanents.

[ComplexPants]

I currently run 4 ancient stirrings in my deck, so I'm excited about having more potential hits. Maybe mirror could get people rethinking ancient stirrings. Also, how does mirror interact with a pithing needle?

Naming a card occurs when Pithing Needle ETB. Copying it does not cause a new pithing needle to ETB. Just like copying Dark Depths does not trigger it to gain new counters.

[aedrew]

Decompressing from GP Las Vegas and wanted to share my results and say thanks to all the posters here for developing the deck.
I played two double-prize Legacy side events with a decklist I shamelessly copied from this forum a while ago (except for -1 Bayou, +1 Blooming Marsh, I forget who posted this list):

Deck
4 Dark Depths
4 Vampire Hexmage
4 Thespian Stage

4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Lotus Petal

4 Crop Rotation
4 Sylvan Scrying
2 Expedition Map
2 Into the North
1 Sylvan Library

4 Thoughtseize
2 Inquisition of Kozilek

4 Pithing Needle
2 Not of this World

1 Ghost Quarter
1 Sejiri Steppe

2 Bayou
1 Blooming Marsh
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Snow-Covered Forest
1 Snow-Covered Swamp

Sideboard
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Karakas
1 Not of This World
2 Massacre
2 Surgical Extraction
3 Deathrite Shaman
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Tireless Tracker

Friday Legacy Double Up
===============

Round 1 v. Shardless BUG (2-0)
------------------------------

### Game 1

I am on the play. I mull to a descent 5, while he mulls to 6. Early discard
reveals a hand of two Brainstorms, Leovald, and land. I don't mind any of
these cards and let him keep two Brainstorms. He then top decks another
Leovald and plays it turn 3. I have time to sculpt, play out Hexmage.
He untaps and slams Liliana and minuses. Still shaking off rust, I
mechanically put Hexmage into my yard and then immediately realize I could
have sacced to kill Lilli. Oh well, the deck is so forgiving, I top deck
another Hexmage next turn with Depths as my land play and get the concession.

### Game 2

I side out Not of this Worlds for Abrupt Decays. I think I also brought in the
third Decay for Steppe or Needle.

This time we both keep seven. Early discard shows Hymn, Lilli, Strix, and
Force and lands. I take Hymn. I had the cards for a fast combo with crop
Rotation, but with Force plus Blue and no real clock, I just bide my time, never
casting Crop Rotation. I mistakenly play out two Hexmages into a known Lilli
in hand. I realize that I should just have one out, so I can make the -2 bad.
He ends up never playing Lilli anyway. He does slam Jace, which dies to
Hexmage upon Brainstorming. Soon after, the top of my deck yields the needed
combo piece and Abrupt Decay removes his only flying blocker for the win.

Round 2 v. BU Reanimator (2-1)
------------------------------------

### Game 1

We both keep seven, with her on the play. Turn two, she exhumes Griselbrand
but I am still in it if I can get Marit on the board before she can get a
Tidespout. I survive for a couple Griselbrand hits without much action from
her side. Eventaully, she entombs to get an Iona on black and swings for the
win.

### Game 2

I side in three DRS, 2 Surgical, Karakas, and Bojuka Bog, taking out Ghost
Quarter, Not of the World, and some Needles.

We both keep seven. The game comes down to a turn where she casts Show and
Tell. She puts in Griselbrand, I put in nothing. She activates Griselbrand. In
response, I Crop Rotation. She lets it resolve and I get Karakas and bounce
the demon. This yields a concession, but perhaps prematurely. She still had
enough life to draw another seven to find another angle.

### Game 3

I keep seven while she mulls to five. Not much of a game here as I have a full
hand with a couple pieces of hate. Eventually get there with a token.

Round 3 v. Deathblade (2-1)

### Game 1

We both keep seven, with me on the play. I have the lands to make a token in
the field, but am patiently waiting for some protection for Swords with no pressure
from his side. However, he takes his draw, realizes he can't deal with the token with his hand, and
scoops.

### Game 2

I board in a third Not of this World, both Massacres. I forget what I took
out, probably some extra land tutoring cards like an Into the North and
Expedition Maps.

I get a chance to stop SFM for Batterskull, but pass, figuring I need Decay
for potential Needle or something else. I think this was a mistake, as
Batterskull races pretty well and puts him out of one swing range.
I get a slight edge when he tries to Wasteland my untapped Stage while I can
copy Snow-Covered Forest in response, but it is not enough.
At one point, he gets Meddling Mage on Sylvan Scrying. Not one of my better
cards, so not too worried, but happens to be the tutor I draw. I use my saved
Abrupt Decay to get rid of Mage, then cast Sylvan Scrying, but it is too
little too late and Batterskull gets the job done.

### Game 3

Both on seven, a few turns in I use discard and see a hand of 4x Swords to
Plowshares, 2x Surgical Extraction, and Force of Will while he is on two lands in play.
I know I need to get through at least 1, maybe 2 Swords and I better make it count because once I
make the token, I probably won't get another chance. I see my line in keeping
him choked on white, so I search up Ghost Quarter and get his only white
source while he is still stuck on 2 lands. I am happy when he declines to
search for a basic. I had Crop Rotation for Steppe in my toolbox as well. To
hammer it home, I top deck Not of the World and make the token. He can't even
find white to cast a single Swords, and I get the concession.

Round 4 v. BURG Aluren (1-2)
----------------------------

I propose a draw so we can get prize and move on to the next events, but he
declines. I found out later he was 2-0-1, so makes sense.

### Game 1

We both keep seven. Discard shows a hand with Parasitic Strix, DRS, 2x Misty,
Catacombs, and Imperial Recruiter. I take Recruiter then play Pithing Needle.
He let's it resolve with an uncracked Catacombs, but I name DRS. I
restrospect, maybe Misty would have been the name, though he wasn't short for
mana. He Alurens in a Parasitic Strix, going to 21 life. I end step use Aluren
to flash in Hexmage and make token. I untap and swing, eating the Strix. He
untaps, draws, and concedes.

### Game 2

I think I brought in Abrupt Decays for Not of the World and some excess land
tutors.

We both mull to six. This is a matchup I am completely unfamiliar with.
He starts going crazy with 8-life chunks with a resolved
Library. I could Decay it, but figure that he won't have much to dig for
against the token anyway and I can save the Decay for whatever he finds.
I Pithing Needle Cavern Harpy to protect myself and wait to assemble the
combo. Then he goes off. Recruiter chain for Dream Stalker for Reclamation
Sage to get rid of Needle. Then drains me out with weird birds.

### Game 3

We both keep seven. My hand is 2x Stage, 2x Depths, and a Lotus Petal. Not
great, but I can attempt two tokens and think BUG won't have ways to deal with
them, so I keep. I mostly rush out a token, ignoring what he is trying to
do. I make the token, thinking I have it. But he Alurens in a Man'o'war to
kill it. Still, things don't look too bad as I can combo again. At one point,
he gets Aluren out again and I punt by not flashing in my Hexmage. I just
forgot about the symmetrical effect and waited to cast it for BB. At that point it is
too late, as he has enough flying chump blockers and a wide enough board to
beat me even with the token.


Saturday Legacy Double Up
=================

Round 1 v. BG Elves (2-0)
-------------------------

### Game 1

I mull to 6 on the draw. He plays some elves. I play Hexmage.
He attacks and I block, thinking I get an elf for free. Forgot about
Pendelhaven in another bad error. The deck again forgives me as I peel another
Hexmage off the top and make a token for the win.

### Game 2

I board in some Decays for Not of this World and excess tutors.

We both keep seven. He plays turn two GSZ for Birchlore Ranger. I get to work on the combo pieces.
He untaps, draws, fails to find another land, and attacks and passes. I make
the token next turn for the concession. It turns out he had Blood Moon in hand
and just needed any third mana source to slam it.

Round 2 v. BUG Food Chain (1-2)
-------------------------------

### Game 1

We both keep seven, with him on the play. He starts to chip away at me, but I
make token soon for the win.

### Game 2

Another matchup I have no experience with. I bring in Decays for NOTW and
excess tutors.

We again both keep seven. I go for a pretty quick token, but it gets Edicted.
I had green up for Crop Rotation, but don't have any creature-land cards in
the 75 to fetch. Definitely felt bad in this spot. I claw back and get close
to another token, but he gets enough mana to race me with Walking Ballista.

### Game 3

This game my seven has Petal, Petal, Hexmage, Depths---a potential turn 2
kill. However, a risky proposition. After some consideration, I decide to go
for it. He has the Force and I am on the back foot from there on out. A turn
away from making a second token, he goes infinite with a Walking Ballista for
game over.

Round 3 v. RGB Lands (2-1)
--------------------------

### Game 1

I am on 6 on the play while he keeps 7. Early discard shows Depths and Stage
in hand. These are in my hand as well. He is confused when I name Wooded
Foothills with my Pithing Needle, then Ghost Quarter with another. It becomes
clear when I play Depths. He Stages my Depths, then I untap and stage my
Depths. But he has Crop Rotation for Karakas for the win. I probably should
not have played my Depths at all.

### Game 2

I board in a full 12 cards---everything but the two Massacres and Not of this World. I take out my 4
Depths, Not of the Worlds, and a handful of fast mana and tutors. I am going
the beatdown plan.

I mull to 6 while he keeps 7. My hand is heavy on creatures, which is what I
want here. Early DRS does a lot of work with help from Bog to manage his GY.
However, he is on the mana denial plan. His Wastes, Port, and Ghost Quarters have
kept me to one land while he has done a good job of keeping lands out of the
yard with Loam. A key turn comes when I play a land suspecting he will Wasteland it.
With the waste effect on the stack, I use DRS to eat the land for green and
Crop Rotation the Wasteland target for a mana source. He follows up with
another Ghost Quarter attempt, but I have the third basic. At this point, he
sort of gives up on the mana denial plan.

I don't encounter any Punishing Fires and DRS does work.
I have Karakas to manage a potential token. I Needle Stage plus
Forest after he copied a Forest with a second Stage. I have an active Sylvan Library.
Finally, I start playing the Trackers. He has a Maze for one, but not two,
and I get the win.

### Game 3

I decide to board back in one Depths in case I can combo off quickly.

We both keep 7. He has turn 2 Chalice on 1. My hand is light on 1 CMC cards
and heavy on Hexmage. I play Petal, which he tries to Decay. In response, I
sac for mana and Decay his Chalice. Then I untap and play DRS.
I have DRS and Hexmages pressuring his life total while DRS plus Bog manage
his yard. I get Ghost Quarter plus a copy. We go to turns, but with 2 Hexmage and DRS, I feel pretty good about
closing. I get a chump from his Dark Confidant because he forgets about first
strike. I am also holding two Surgicals when I deal lethal on turn 3.

Round 4 ID

Paired against another RG Lands player who just watched most of my last match. We
decide to draw and end it early.

---

Overall I was 5-2 in matches played. Deck felt good and quite forgiving of my play errors.
My losses both felt like they could have
easily been wins if I understood the matchups better, played better, or got a little luckier.
The deck does struggle with the infinite flying chump blockers available in
Aluren and Food Chain. Steppe is a solution and I could have leveraged this
better. Using the Blooming Marsh never hurt me and allowed me
to play around Submerge against the BUG decks (though I never saw Submerge).
I'd really like to add a way to stop Edict effects like Mishra's Factory or
Dryad Arbor. Though, just patiently playing out an early creature might be the better
solution.

[apple713]

Is Solemnity a good reason to start running Deathrite Shaman in the mainboard? I mean as a mana dork, alt grindy wincon, protection from surgical, and answer to gy shenanigans. Having it MB and splashing white also gives access to Enlightened Tutor and Knight of the Reliquary, which in addition give access to finding Needles, Maps and Solemnities when you need em and having instant speed answers/protection through our lands.

Something like


4x Elvish Spirit Guide
3x Pithing Needle
3x Sylvan Safekeeper
4x Deathrite Shaman
2x Enlightened Tutor
3x Solemnity
4x Thoughtseize
4x Duress
4x Crop Rotation
3x Expedition Map
3x Knight of the Reliquary

4x Dark Depths
3x Thespian's Stage
2x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4x Verdant Catacombs
2x Bayou
1x Scrubland
1x Savannah
1x Forest
1x Swamp
1x Sejiri Steppe
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Ghost Quarter
1x Karakas

1x Pithing Needle
2x Surgical Extraction
1x Grafdigger's Cage
4x Abrupt Decay
3x Sylvan Library
4x Thorn of Amethyst


This might be going a in an altogether different direction from the concept of "Turbo" depths, but it seems like it can be a very rewarding path to take.

I know it's the spoiler season hype, but HOU seems to have some absurd mechanics in regards of not getting counters on permanents.


I think if you play green white, you also end up playing things like green sun's zenith and cards like the guy below who are silver bullets. With the guy below and solemnity you just get a marit lage token every turn by playing the depths. The only thing is that at this point the deck starts to morph into a maverick esq deck.

http://mythicspoiler.com/hou/cards/ramunapexcavator.jpg

[tarmogoat]

On a completely different note, how high do we value this effect?

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/thumbnails/132/298/200/283/636335551956765662.png

For 2G you can crop rotate into it an pop it. It's not amazing, but turning CRot into a semi-Relic can be backbreaking and game winning.
It IS a poor man's Bog, but it enters untapped and that could be relevant to casting Needle, Map or paying for a Stage activation.

[It Is Unfair]

Finals: Miracles 2-0. The ultimate end-boss: ItIsUnfair. G1 was decided by my opponent missing their 2nd land drop for a turn, as well as me having 3 Vampire Hexmages to threaten the combo every turn, starting on turn 3. One Lage got killed through Crop Rotation for Steppe, the 2nd hexmage got force'd, but the third lage got there. G2 was decided by me resolving Sylvan Safekeeper on the combo turn, letting me answer everything, while a Crop Rotation for Bog stopped Snapcaster from flashing back Brainstorm (I assume for Terminus on top, anything else wouldn't have beaten Safekeeper).Conguratilations of the 1:st place finish. Yeah game 1 I kept 1 plains 2 stp on a mull to 6 I think, knowing I was fine with missing a landdrop for a turn, but my 2:nd land turned out to be another basic plains which was quite awkward. In game 2 I didn't even have the terminus on top for that flashbacked brainstorm, I would have had to blind hit it after a shuffle on my turn right before, I had no other outs, when you cast that Sylvan Safekeeper my hand was : Swords to Plowshares, Unexpectedly Absent, Snapcaster Mage, Surgical Extraction, Brainstorm, and possibly another land or cantrip that I don't remember. But you had enough lands to give shroud again and again through all those targeted removal spells. That hand I had would have been really good against almost anything else, I could beat like 2 or 3 discard spells or even Steely Resolve, but Safekeeper was both unexpected and truly a beating.

[ComplexPants]

I think if you play green white, you also end up playing things like green sun's zenith and cards like the guy below who are silver bullets. With the guy below and solemnity you just get a marit lage token every turn by playing the depths. The only thing is that at this point the deck starts to morph into a maverick esq deck.

http://mythicspoiler.com/hou/cards/ramunapexcavator.jpg

That guy is good, but honestly, why not Crucible? If we are playing Enlightened tutor, seems better than trying to tutor creatures and enchant/artifacts. Also instant speed tutor, but granted, does not go on to the battlefield.

[Negator77']

On a completely different note, how high do we value this effect?

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/thumbnails/132/298/200/283/636335551956765662.png

For 2G you can crop rotate into it an pop it. It's not amazing, but turning CRot into a semi-Relic can be backbreaking and game winning.

I mean, bog almost always does it better since hitting both yards is only niche relevant (like say DRS burning us out using our yard). Plus, you get to keep bog instead of sacrificing the desert. In general, the big turns to hit the yard are the early ones against decks like reanimator anyway. I don't think it's worth turning a free effect into 2 extra to use just to have an extra colorless land that comes into play untapped.


Now this card, if it works like I think, would be significantly better than that mirror I think. You would have to play the depths after this was in play so depths woudlnt enter with counters on it but then it would be in play with no counters and immediately triggered. You could also cast this then eot crop rotation eot if you wanna do it that way.

It would support the white version obviously and would be reusable in a way that hexmage is not. It can't attack, but its ability is somewhat relevant too.

https://images1.mtggoldfish.com/uploads/6715596e-4f26-4e31-a6bc-a3be77dc5c6c/Solemnity%20%5BHOU%5D.png

I mean it's reusable, but that isn't as huge of a deal as it seems in a world where extraction is everywhere. I haven't been running into situations where being able to combo a second time is an issue short of being extracted. This would have the same limitation. The cost of being forced to combo during your main phase (sans crop rotation) is huge and opens us up to everything from Karakas to Jace to Liliana. Three mana vs two is a big deal too if the direct comparison is with Hexmage. It gets tagged with soft counters much easier since Spell Pierce hits it and Daze is better against a 3 drop. This is all before even accounting for either adding white or losing black which would have all sorts of different costs/benefits. This card strikes me as a card that needs an entirely new shell if it's going to be in a dedicated Depths deck. It's prob better in Lands or decks that can abuse another interaction like with say Glacial Chasm.

[apple713]

I mean it's reusable, but that isn't as huge of a deal as it seems in a world where extraction is everywhere. I haven't been running into situations where being able to combo a second time is an issue short of being extracted. This would have the same limitation. The cost of being forced to combo during your main phase (sans crop rotation) is huge and opens us up to everything from Karakas to Jace to Liliana. Three mana vs two is a big deal too if the direct comparison is with Hexmage. It gets tagged with soft counters much easier since Spell Pierce hits it and Daze is better against a 3 drop. This is all before even accounting for either adding white or losing black which would have all sorts of different costs/benefits. This card strikes me as a card that needs an entirely new shell if it's going to be in a dedicated Depths deck. It's prob better in Lands or decks that can abuse another interaction like with say Glacial Chasm.

I agree, I wouldnt put it in this decks current form. I wouldnt play it with black at all. I was merely posing that it opens the real possibility to GW Turbo version.



That guy is good, but honestly, why not Crucible? If we are playing Enlightened tutor, seems better than trying to tutor creatures and enchant/artifacts. Also instant speed tutor, but granted, does not go on to the battlefield.

i wouldnt play enlightened tutor. The green crucible creature is tutorable with green sun zenith, and I would play GSZ way way way before enlightened tutor. GSZ has potential to get Knight of the reliquary, DRS, the crucible creature, Dryad Arbor (for acceleration), sylvan safekeeper, qusali pridemage, teeg, DRS, and many other silver bullets to aid in either main deck or sb. Creatures also give u an alt win con. I wouldnt suggest trying to make it into a control deck but having answers that either prevent us from losing or aid in winning are great.

[lineopen]

Turbo Depths is my second deck of legacy
previously playing Charbelcher but suffer a lot facing FoW
I had played this archetype online for couple months
Just finished MO league 5-0 for the first time, with DNSolver updated list
I faced ANT, UR delver, ANT, ANT, Burn in this League

IMO sylvan safekeeper is definitely better than NOTW
And Mindbreak Trap really help a lot in the match with ANT
It's huge to stop Turn 1 kill and they have to wait for Duress or Cabal therapy before they combo off
Not like sphere of resistance getting hit by Chain of Vapor sometimes is another big upside

Thanks for everyone who discuss here, especially DNSolver
P.S. I had very poor result against Lands, who have multiple ways to stop Marit Lage. Could anyone provide some tips in this specific matchup?
Many thanks!

[Lio]

Games against lands are the ones I enjoy the most. First, it's very strategic and second I think we are slightly favorable.

They can't go off quickly if we keep green mana up. ESG + crop rotation is also real threat they can't never be sure about. They know we play 3-4 surgicals, so they will rather to lock us than kill us quickly. Key cards in matchup are pithing needle@wasteland to save our manabase and let us combo out and surgical their loam or another important card away. Sylvan library is great is as it let's us dig for additional lands and combo protection. Dark confidant is also blowout sometimes. When you want to go off, you need to gather critical mass of NotW and needles and try to push through their defense. I haven't tested it with Sylvan Safekeeper yet, but I believe Safekeeper must be significant improvement over NotW as single card gets through both mazes and Karakas.

Never play dark depths before going off.

Btw if you surgical one of their best cards, it's good to look through their deck and check how many answers to creatures do they pack. It's possible to get there with hexmage, confidant and ESG beats.

I usually board in Sylvan libraries, Abrupt Decay, Karakas and surgicals in exchange for discard and petal.

It's nice to copy another land with stage of. There is a window. Then you can safely needle stage.

[Slacker1348]

Long winded tourney report from a poor sap who went 7-7 (read 5-7), love the deck and would still play in a large field such as this however. Let's get to the story though....



It's been years since I played in a Legacy Grand Prix. The last one being Denver 2012 maybe? I didn't intend on traveling to Vegas for this one, but I took a sweet 4 color scapeshift deck to a GPT for Vegas and took the whole thing down.

So I have two byes, and that's my motivation for attending. The road to Vegas starts with a trip to Kansas City, MO, in route by air from there.

I struggled leading up to the GP as to what legacy deck do I play, as I'm still reeling from the death of top. (Calm down, I'm a nicfit player)

My choices were sneak and show, or b/g "not quite turbo depths." as I don't wanna get steam rolled by combo on nicfit all day.

After extensive testing online and with my play group, I settled on my depths list, as I felt I had a MUCH better grixis/delver/taxes match up with this list. I'm not out to countermagic and discard as my main combo pieces can't be targeted.

Without further ado, the 75 I registered.
"Not quite turbo depths"
4 Dark Depths
1 Swamp
3 Bayou
1 Sejiri Steppe
1 Forest
1 Maze of Ith
4 Thespian's Stage
3 Wasteland
1 Ghost Quarter
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Bojuka Bog
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

3 Sylvan Safekeeper
4 Vampire Hexmage

4 Pithing Needle
2 Abrupt Decay
4 Crop Rotation
3 Thoughtseize
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Toxic Deluge
4 Sylvan Scrying
2 Duress

SB: 1 Karakas
SB: 1 Maze of Ith
SB: 2 Faerie Macabre
SB: 2 Dread of Night
SB: 1 Abrupt Decay
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 Golgari Charm
SB: 1 Krosan Grip
SB: 2 Lost Legacy
SB: 2 Rite of Consumption

Round 1: bye 2-0 // 1-0
Round 2: bye 2-0 // 2-0

Round 3: Chuck // Lands 0-2 // 2-1
Nothing exciting here. Ghost quarter and loam on his end gets there. Bummer.
Game 2 I die to double tireless tracker. Bummer again. Guess I should've played sneak and show and had a 3 round bye lol

Round 4: Ian Thomas // GrixisD // 2-1 / 3-1
He takes game one, I see hymn in his hand off of am inquisition, so I believe he isn't playing stifle. He still wins game one with double delver.
Games 2 and 3 are pretty similar. I keep a wasteland/pithing needle opener. And Marit Lage gets there both games. Confirmed after match he wasn't playing stifle, and he had no edict effects, his game plan was surgical depths after wasteland, no way to actually deal with our beloved 20/20.

Round 5: Travis Boese / Elves / 2-0 / 4-1
Game one, he cracks wooded foothills for forest > DRS, so I put him on elves. I turn 1 a pithing needle naming DRS. He plays another dork. Passes. I drop Sejiri steppe and crop rotate for tabby. (He makes a comment about having to play against ANOTHER tabernacle deck, said it's the 3rd one of the day.) He has 9 dudes + heritage, so it slows him down for several turns. He finds a cradle, I Sylvan scry for wasteland, he gets one attack in, I drop Marit lage and win.

Game 2, another DRS from him. Another needle from me. Inquisition on my end takes GSZ. He gets gets a few pings in, but can't beat Hexmage making token.

Round 6: Dillon / Burn / 1-2 / 4-2
You know what happened. Game 1, goblin guide drew me into urborg, depths hexmage.
He took games 2 and 3.

Round 7: Shane / Sneak and Show / 0-2 / 4-3
Bleh. play Pithing needle with griz on board. He draws 14. Jace answers my token 😞
Game 2 I surgical show and tell. Which he put a blood moon in on. I have basic forest, I crop rotate for my basic swamp. Rip grip off the top, eot blow his moon. I'm desperately wanting a needle to name sneak attack. He gets an emrakul, I sac everything except for my hexmage on board in hopes of ripping depths off top. He kills me and I look at my next draw..... pithing needle.

I now have to win out to make day 2.

Round 8: Blythe / infect / 2-0 / 5-3
Game one needles come down, naming ink moth, pendelhaven, wasteland, which I was to late in naming. (i totally brainfarted that infect plays a single wasteland) She wasted my on board depths. A long game of draw go insues, as she can't get in against maze of ith. It got to the point where I had paid enough mana to take 8 counters off depths. Top deck thespian finally and win.

Game two she opens with trop > glistner. I play maze and pass, in fear of the fabled t2 infect kill. She lays down inkmoth. And I play a needle on my turn naming inkmoth. An abrupt decay kills her only dude, and I have plenty of time to find Marit lage.

Still alive. Let's see if I can pull it out

Round 9: Kevin / 4-color loam / 2-1 / 6-3
Game 1:, I god hand and only see taiga, scrubland, dark confidant. I have no idea how to board.

Game 2: he gets there with all the disruption and a liliana. Really intricate play went on in this game where both of us did exactly what we were supposed to, but he still came out on top. I have hexmage, stage and depths on board. He decays hexmage. I crop rotate something away for a wasteland to force his on my combo, to make token in response to decay. he floats black off his wasteland and lets it die. I make token, and he then cast Liliana off his black mana to make me sac the token.

Game 3: game three we kinda grind for a while. he has two cards in hand, and I have the combo on board. I've killed two lilianas at this point in the game, and i'm looking for a discard spell to rip the STP i know he has in his hand out. I topdeck lost legacy, and name STP. rip it from his hand, and as I'm looking through his library, I see his only other out is the last of 3 lilianas. so I make the token and hope for the best, it gets there.

I did it! I made day 2!

Day 2:

Round 10: D&T /1-2 / 6-4
Game one was super grindy. I've cast both deluges, and both decays. I didn't see red mana at all from him then he casts magus of the moon off cavern. 😞

Game two is grindy, but I get there. Hexmage killed a gideon, and then I got there with thespian/depths with crop rotate for sejiri live at his EOT.

Game 3 he opens with vial so I needle it. He ends up councils judgment my needle. Stoneforge, magus (I fetched basics) and batterskull kill me

Round 11: burn 0-2 / 6-5

Round 12: bug delver / 2-0 / 7-5
Game 1 i crop rotate a sejiri steppe for tabby, he doesn't know what it does and draws his card, with out paying for DRS and Goyf. He has wasteland on board, I play my depths with my Thespian's stage on board. He tries to waste thespian and I make token in response. He says it's his first legacy event which explains his misplays. I congratulate him on making day 2.

Game 2 I toxic Deluge his unflipped delver and Drs away. He thoughtseizes and I reveal a hand full of lands. I play depths and hexmage, he scoops.

Round 13: eldrazi stompy. 0-2 / 7-6
Ugin mimic x2, then thought knot takes my deluge. I die. He turn 1s a chalice, then I die.

Round 14: grixis 1-2 / 7-7 drop
Game three I lose because I couldn't draw lands. I was gonna play out, but just felt really discouraged, losing to such a good match up, and decided to go do Vegas things instead.

Round 15: Digital Craps / good come up 😉
win my registration fee back, and then some. woo vegas.

A very poor day 2 showing, but I feel that's on me, not the deck. Maybe I should have mull'd my G3 hand against taxes, but that's just hindsight.

All in all, I would still play this deck at a large scale event. With a few sideboard changes. Definitely a massacre somewhere in the board to catch those pesky Magus taxes decks. My worst match ups were burn by far, and I'm not sure there's anything we can do about it. (Except play turbo depths, I guess.) Rites definitely come out for a Massacre and something else. Maybe Not of this World? Something to make Lands a little easier, perhaps?





I'm taking Turbo to a local Win-a-mox event this weekend, and hope to do a little better. I'll hopefully have a more successful tournament report for you guys. But I do need some tips on my turbo sideboard, if you wouldn't mind. Thanks for reading a rather unsuccessful report! :D

4 Dark Depths
1 Swamp
3 Bayou
1 Sejiri Steppe
1 Forest
4 Thespian's Stage
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Bojuka Bog
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

3 Sylvan Safekeeper
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Vampire Hexmage

2 Sylvan Library
4 Lotus Petal
4 Pithing Needle
4 Crop Rotation
4 Thoughtseize
4 Sylvan Scrying
4 Duress

SB: 1 Karakas
SB: 1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
SB: 4 Chalice of the Void
SB: 4 Abrupt Decay
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 Krosan Grip
SB: 1 Toxic Deluge
SB: 1 Lost Legacy

The loosest card is probably Tabernacle with no mana denial, I'm probably just forcing it into the deck because it's laying around. Is chalice really the go to for beating storm?

[ComplexPants]

Thorn or Sphere is the default way to beat storm. However, DNSolver had been testing out Mindbreak trap with success. That might be the new way to go.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[solnox]

I went 6-3 on Day 1 with my list and 4-2 on Day 2 finishing at 10-5. Finally have a chance to write a more detailed report.

4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Vampire Hexmage
2 Abrupt Decay
4 Crop Rotation
3 Duress
4 Lotus Petal
3 Not of This World
4 Pithing Needle
1 Sylvan Library
4 Sylvan Scrying
4 Thoughtseize
3 Bayou
1 Bojuka Bog
4 Dark Depths
1 Forest
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Sejiri Steppe
1 Swamp
4 Thespian\'s Stage
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Verdant Catacombs
Sideboard:
3 Chalice of the Void
2 Golgari Charm
1 Karakas
1 Mishra\'s Factory
2 Rite of Consumption
3 Sphere of Resistance
3 Surgical Extraction


R1-2: I won a GPT a few weeks back and spent this time shopping for FBB Bayous.


R3 vs Eldrazi. (2-1)

Game 1: I keep a hand of combo+duresses which are pretty terrible versus the Sphagetti. He curves Chalice into TKS into Smasher and Wasteland and I'm dead.

Game 2: A quick T2 Marit Lage ends the game on the spot.

Game 3: A T3 Urborg, Stage, Depths with discard and needle on wasteland eliminates him.


R4 vs BUG Control/Pile? (1-2)

Game 1: I thoughtseize him and make a Marit Lage with Crop Rotation end of his turn to kill him.

Game 2: He rips an abrupt decay off the top right after I seized one to prevent decay on needle on wasteland. I go for it and get punished. I never climb back.

Game 3: I mull to a sketchy 6 of lands with the combo and he plays a needle on stage. I eventually get to a point where I need him to miss on wasteland after 2 JTMS Brainstorms and he finds one on the last go.

R5 vs BUG Delver (1-2)

Game 1: Delver business of DRS, Daze your play, Daze your 2nd play, Force your shit, play Tarmogoyf.

Game 2: A Chalice on 1 after a thoughtseize completely ends the game with a T3 Marit Lage.

Game 3: I manage to make a Marit lage with edict protection and NOTW for submerge while I'm at 5. He has 2x DRS but I have a needle on them. I swing and he blocks with Delver. He has 1 unknown and it turns out to be a decay he ripped to hit the needle to drain me for lethal.


At this point I'm fairly tilted to losing to abrupt decay and have to win a few more.

R6 vs Miracles? (2-1) (2 Predict, 2 Terminus/2 Verdict, 0 absent???)

Game 1: I exhaust his resources with ESG and Hexmage Beatdown forcing him to plow a few of them. I make the combo with a NOTW protection after hes down to 2 cards in hand to end the game.

Game 2: A quick clock of Clique and Mentor with plow and force backup makes sure I can never get anything going.

Game 3: I thoughtseize him and take his clique leaving him a hand of cantrips and plows. I follow up with a Chalice of the Void which completely invalidates his hand. A T4 Combo with NOTW protection takes it quick.

R7 vs Painter 0-2

Game 1: T1 Bloodstained mire fetch mountain in response to Needle leaves a sinking feeling in me. I needle grindstone and discover that he really was on painter. T2 Bridge into T3 Blood moon is lights out.

Game 2: T2 Painter, T3 pyroblast your needle and activate grindstone GG

R8 vs Skill and Show. 2-1

Game 1: He leads island brainstorm which leads me to think either Storm or Sneak. I seize and see a hand full of fatties but no business. I should have taken an Emrakul to shuffle his deck of Show on top but instead take a Force. He has the show and I lose to emrakul.

Game 2: T1 Seize, T2 2x Seize while playing combo lands has him floundering. He dies to the T3 Combo.

Game 3: Same as G2.


R9 vs my friend on Tezzerator. Unfortunately I'm paired vs my friend on Tezz for the ticket to Day 2 and we're both unwilling to concede. (2-1)

G1: I have a T2 kill but he has a T2 Bridge into t3 Bridge. I cant find decay so I scoop it up..

G2: Thoughtseize completely ruins his day taking away a T2 Blood Moon and I make a Marit lage shortly to win.

G3: Again thoughtseize strips him of a Blood moon and allows me to make marit lage. He finds a bridge/strix/moon to stop any shenanigans. I ESG out a Sylvan Library and dig hard. I find a 2nd lotus petal and the abrupt decay on the bridge to get a swing in. He draws Helm of Obedience while he has a leyline out but only 4 mana so he can't activate it. GG



Day 2:

R10 vs DEMON STOMPY???!!!!???? (2-1)

G1: T1 Swamp leads me to think BR Reanimator but a thoughtseize reveals Abyssal Persector Chalice, Ob Nix of the Black Oath lands... I should have taken the Chalice but Instead i take the Demon as I have scryings to find my combo. He draws edict and blows me out with it. I die to a Desecration Demon of all cards.

G2: I make a T3 Marit lage off Urborg, Dark Depths, Hexmage, other land and cast a Rite of Consumption with ESG to dodge any edicts.

G3: He T1 Hymns me off chrome mox and gets rid of my ESG that was going to be used for Scrying as I kept a 1 lander. I only have a stage and a grip of discard but I realize he led off Urborg, giving me precious black mana. I rip his hand of threats and he floods out. A sylvan library and land helps me find the combo with Rite of consumption to dodge any edict effects.

R11 vs Death and Taxes (2-1)

G1: I'm forced to make a Marit lage in the face of Plows due to his pressure and he can't find a way to get it off the table. I kill him in 2 swings.

G2: I make a super conservative play and am punished for it. Should have tutored up a Dark Depths instead of a swamp to play around wasteland and I can't find depths before the game is out of my reach.

G3: I mulligan to 5 and keep a 5 of 4 lands with combo pieces and scry a rotation to the top. He tutors up a Magus of the moon and taps out his karakas and mana sources to slam it. I rotate in response and make the marit lage. He plays plains and just passes. Fortunately he doesnt have the plow and I win.


R12 vs Food Chain (2-0)

G1: T2 Combo with Stage, depths, 2x ESG with naturally drawn sejirii steppe to fight through the strix.

G2: I try for a T1 2x Lotus Petal, Hexmage, Depths but he has the edict. I manage to rebuild and make a 2nd marit lage and have edict protection this time with Mishras.


R13 vs Elves (1-2)

G1: T3 Combo with lands and discard makes short work of him.

G2: He beats Chalice on 1 where I win with any 2nd mana source. My lands are Stage, Bayou, Depths and I can't find it before I die.

G3: I Power out a T1 Chalice and I again lose to some creative plays by my opponent.


R14 vs Black Red Reanimator (2-0)

G1: I make a marit lage end of his T3 after he does a bunch of looting and seizing. He can't make a fatty and I win.

G2: I rip his hand apart with discard and make a T3 Marit Lage to end his dreams.


R15 vs Food Chain (0-2)

G1: I get destroyed by food chain combo on T4.

G2: I cant beat needle, Edict and flyers while has a clock going.


Overall Record 19-16. Not the most stellar of records where all my wins were nailbiters.

I didn't really get any free rolls where I absolutely destroyed my opponent and I struggled to assemble the combo in the face of interaction. It didn't help that I won only 2 of my die rolls out of 13 rounds where a Daze by Bug Delver on the play g1 basically won him the match. I'm going to be taking out Golgari charm and Chalice of the Void as I felt I didnt really need them. Going to be trying Mindbreak traps and Sylvan Safekeepers for a while.

[DNSolver]

Followed up my Legacy Challenge win by splitting the finals of my local $1k. 75 players.

R1: Eldrazi 2-1
R2: Topher Stitson on 4c Control 2-0
R3: BUG Delver 2-1
R4: Mud Post 2-0
R5: Punishing Thieves 2-0
R6: ID
R7: ID

Quarters: split with my friend on 4c Control
Semis: 4c Control
Finals: 4c Control split

Apparently 10-color blue cards are bayud.

[TLK]

Interesting Depths/Reanimator hybrid deck 5-0'd a league:

3 Grave Titan
3 Griselbrand
4 Vampire Hexmage
3 Collective Brutality
4 Exhume
4 Reanimate
4 Thoughtseize
1 Unburial Rites
4 Dark Ritual
4 Entomb
4 Lotus Petal
4 Dark Depths
2 Lake of the Dead
2 Marsh Flats
1 Scrubland
3 Swamp
4 Thespian's Stage
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Verdant Catacombs

1 Coffin Purge
2 Duress
4 Pithing Needle
1 Seal of Cleansing
1 Toxic Deluge
2 Dread of Night
1 Massacre
1 Rite of Consumption
2 Surgical Extraction

[Emrakul503]

Then drains me out with weird birds.

This line made my week, I laughed so hard! Thank you for this. And thank you for the write up! I have BG Depths and BUG Aluren built online, and this inspired me to pick back up on Depths!

[chaosjace]

Interesting Depths/Reanimator hybrid deck 5-0'd a league:

3 Grave Titan
3 Griselbrand
4 Vampire Hexmage
3 Collective Brutality
4 Exhume
4 Reanimate
4 Thoughtseize
1 Unburial Rites
4 Dark Ritual
4 Entomb
4 Lotus Petal
4 Dark Depths
2 Lake of the Dead
2 Marsh Flats
1 Scrubland
3 Swamp
4 Thespian's Stage
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Verdant Catacombs

1 Coffin Purge
2 Duress
4 Pithing Needle
1 Seal of Cleansing
1 Toxic Deluge
2 Dread of Night
1 Massacre
1 Rite of Consumption
2 Surgical Extraction


This looks fun, I think I would rather have a prime time or maybe a tidespout tyrant

[Blastoderm]

Interesting Depths/Reanimator hybrid deck 5-0'd a league:

3 Grave Titan
3 Griselbrand
4 Vampire Hexmage
3 Collective Brutality
4 Exhume
4 Reanimate
4 Thoughtseize
1 Unburial Rites
4 Dark Ritual
4 Entomb
4 Lotus Petal
4 Dark Depths
2 Lake of the Dead
2 Marsh Flats
1 Scrubland
3 Swamp
4 Thespian's Stage
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Verdant Catacombs

1 Coffin Purge
2 Duress
4 Pithing Needle
1 Seal of Cleansing
1 Toxic Deluge
2 Dread of Night
1 Massacre
1 Rite of Consumption
2 Surgical Extraction

This is quite similar if not the exact list from a Japanese tournament a while back...

[Ewlandon]

This is quite similar if not the exact list from a Japanese tournament a while back...


There was some influence from that list but it's more than a little different. That japanese deck ran LED x4 and magus of the will x2, no maindeck lake of the dead different reanimate spells no hexmages no depths no urborgs no stages.

[filln]

There was some influence from that list but it's more than a little different. That japanese deck ran LED x4 and magus of the will x2, no maindeck lake of the dead different reanimate spells no hexmages no depths no urborgs no stages.

You're thinking of a different deck. Here's the Japanese deck that is similar to the above (http://www.hareruyamtg.com/en/k/kD27843S/), though there are definitely some tweaks in the reanimation/discard spells.

[Ewlandon]

You're thinking of a different deck. Here's the Japanese deck that is similar to the above (http://www.hareruyamtg.com/en/k/kD27843S/), though there are definitely some tweaks in the reanimation/discard spells.


Oh interesting I hadn't seen that list when I built this one. I built this one based off a tin fins/depths combo and the magus of the will mono black's sb plan. This one's transformational sb plan doesnt look very good to me.

[solnox]

^ are you the guy who always has Gideon of the Trials in Bant Deathblade?

[Ewlandon]

^ are you the guy who always has Gideon of the Trials in Bant Deathblade?

guilty

[solnox]

I remember b/c we had a pretty insane game of DnT vs blade where you had 4 x tnn with bskull and I had mirran crusader, bskull and sofi

[Lio]

Does anyone play Dark Confidants here as a replacement for Elvish Spirit Guide? I am playing Confidant build for a month with some success. Matchups like Death and Taxes are much better but delvers MUs got worse. What is your experience?

[chaosjace]

Does anyone play Dark Confidants here as a replacement for Elvish Spirit Guide? I am playing Confidant build for a month with some success. Matchups like Death and Taxes are much better but delvers MUs got worse. What is your experience?

I switched to DC, I really like it. Really speeds up the deck/makes questionable hands much better. There were many times where I had half the combo, a tutor, and confidant, and confidant just drew me the other combo piece so I could use my tutors for something else.

Although I am debating on cramming ESG back in with confidant. In the tourney I played at the life loss didn't matter at all, since as a fast combo deck you want to get in there. The only thing that really targets my Lage in my meta is Karakas, so I think I want to bank on my 4 needles for that, and move Safekeeper to the side, for testing at least.

I also was thinking about 4 Sylvan Library instead of Condiant, only because it digs deeper, but the body comes in handy.

[filln]

Does anyone play Dark Confidants here as a replacement for Elvish Spirit Guide? I am playing Confidant build for a month with some success. Matchups like Death and Taxes are much better but delvers MUs got worse. What is your experience?

If you're playing Dark Confidants I hope you're also playing Not of This World for extra thrills. :laugh:

[Lio]

I switched to DC, I really like it. Really speeds up the deck/makes questionable hands much better. There were many times where I had half the combo, a tutor, and confidant, and confidant just drew me the other combo piece so I could use my tutors for something else.

Although I am debating on cramming ESG back in with confidant. In the tourney I played at the life loss didn't matter at all, since as a fast combo deck you want to get in there. The only thing that really targets my Lage in my meta is Karakas, so I think I want to bank on my 4 needles for that, and move Safekeeper to the side, for testing at least.

I also was thinking about 4 Sylvan Library instead of Condiant, only because it digs deeper, but the body comes in handy.

There are very few Storm combo decks in my paper meta thus I can focus on beating GY based decks consistently and don't need to play Sphere/Mindbreak Trap. I like 2 Sylvan Libraries SB even though it might be overkill. I like them especially against DnT, where I can jam two Confidants and Sylvan Library and bury them in card advantage for very little pain.

I do not like Expedition Map here without ESG. Spending 3 mana to get a land is a lot (one tun to play and one turn to activate). Do you play an Expedition Map with DC? On my next tournament, I will replace Maps with Gitaxian Probes. I lost too many games to Diabolic Edict (either playing around it or getting Marit Lage killed by it).

4x Dark Depths
4x Thespian Stage
4x Uborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4x Verdant Catacomb
2x Bayou
1x Llanowar Wastes (budget reasons)
1x Wasteland
1x Sejirri Steppe
1x Swamp
1x Forest

4x Lotus Petal
4x Pithing Needle

4x Dark Confidant
3x Sylvan Safekeeper
4x Vampire Hexmage

4x Thoughtseize
2x Inquisition of Kozilek
2x Duress

4x Sylvan Scrying
4x Crop Rotation
2x Expedition Map

SB:
3x Abrupt Decay
1x Karakas
1x Bojuka Bog
2x Sylvan Library
1x Toxic Deluge
1x Dread of Night
1x Maze of Ith
3x Surgical Extraction
1x Faerie Macabre
1x Sphere of Resistance

[chaosjace]

I do not like Expedition Map here without ESG. Spending 3 mana to get a land is a lot (one tun to play and one turn to activate). Do you play an Expedition Map with DC? On my next tournament, I will replace Maps with Gitaxian Probes. I lost too many games to Diabolic Edict (either playing around it or getting Marit Lage killed by it).


I do not like Expedition map at all actually, mainly because of the 3 mana total, I prefer my turn ones to be needle, discard, or safekeeper (currently) or better yet petal and (when i cram ESG back into the deck) turn one Confidant or scrying. My turn two is (hopefully) a depths and a hexmage, if not then confidant. I have also moved away from into the north and haven't really missed it.

My list is currently
4x Dark Depths
4x Thespian Stage
4x Uborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2x Verdant Catacomb
1x Overgrown tomb
3x Blooming Marsh
1x Ghost Quarter
1x Sejirri Steppe
1x Swamp
1x Forest
1x Maze of Ith
1x Bojuka Bog

4x Lotus Petal
4x Pithing Needle

4x Dark Confidant
3x Sylvan Safekeeper
4x Vampire Hexmage

4x Thoughtseize
4x Duress

4x Sylvan Scrying
4x Crop Rotation

1x Sylvan Library

SB is currently
4x Leyline of the Void (will probably go back to surgical)
1x Reverent Silence (which may become Back to nature due to my low forest count)
1x Sylvan Library
4x Sphere of resistance
2x Golgari Charm
2x Abrupt Decay
1x Karakas

For testing, I am thinking of
MD:
-3 Sylvan Safe Keeper
-1 Sylvan Library

+4 Elvish Spirit Guide

SB to become
3x Surgical Extraction
2x Sylvan Library
2x Abrupt Decay
2x Golgari Charm
1x Karakas
1x Back to Nature
4x Sphere of Resistance

NOTE: I do own Bayou, I know I should put it in the deck, I am trying to convince myself it's okay to play white border cards. it isn't going so well :P

EDIT: I also have this terrible idea to make a transformational sideboard, and seeing re animator depths makes me want to do like:
4x Entomb
4x Reanimate
4x Chancellor of the Annex
3x Exhume/animate dead

alternatively Grindstone combo SB and I could do something like deathmark

[solnox]

I've tried confidant in the past but it really never did anything and turned on lightning bolts and fatal pushes that were usually dead in my opponent's hand.

ESG lets you do the most busted plays the deck is capable of.

[Pomegrant]

Hey DNS, I liked your Sylvan Safekeepers. Thoughts on cutting one for a Steely Resolve?

[DNSolver]

One of the many things I like about Safekeeper is that it sacrifices itself to Edict effects, allowing you to play through anything that isn't Edict + Swords (although those are usually not in the same deck) or double Edict (which is fragile to discard). So I haven't considered switching one to Resolve yet, especially because people are rather high on Edict right now and think we can't beat it.

[Pomegrant]

Build a Dryad Arbor into the sideboard. Fetch+Rotate should be good enough for it.

Try the resolve out. When it's good, it's really good.

[Negator77']

Build a Dryad Arbor into the sideboard. Fetch+Rotate should be good enough for it.

Try the resolve out. When it's good, it's really good.

Having tried Arbor out a few different times, I would suggest also giving Mishra's Factory a try in that slot. It's been more effective in my testing even though it's not fetchable like Arbor is. Tapped or summoning sick lands are brutal beyond the mandatory ones (Bog, Steppe). Factories and Stage copies of Factories perform a lot of secondary work killing walkers and whatnot as well.

[Slacker1348]

So I'm not entirely sure where this list actually belongs, and must state I'm not the creator of this list. It's the 16th place list from GP Vegas, and I believe all of the Dark Depths players might appreciate this deck.

I've played it at my LGS in our past couple events to a 3-1 finish both times. Losing only to Storm in G3 (he hid behind a defense grid while I had stifle in hand,) and Elves Game 3, just did elf-y things. I even somehow beat burn by the skin of my teeth.

Just thought I'd drop the list in this thread for discussion, it's a blast to play, especially if you're looking for a control style build.

1 Dark Depths
2 Tropical Island
1 Bayou
2 Underground Sea
1 Karakas
1 Thespian's Stage
4 Wasteland
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Island
4 Polluted Delta
1 Cabal Pit
1 Swamp
1 Forest
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Cephalid Coliseum

1 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
3 Snapcaster Mage
2 Baleful Strix
4 Deathrite Shaman

2 Liliana of the Veil
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

1 Pernicious Deed

4 Brainstorm
1 Intuition
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Crop Rotation
3 Force of Will
3 Stifle

1 Toxic Deluge
2 Life from the Loam
1 Ponder
1 Maelstrom Pulse

[filln]

So I'm not entirely sure where this list actually belongs, and must state I'm not the creator of this list. It's the 16th place list from GP Vegas, and I believe all of the Dark Depths players might appreciate this deck.

Definitely one of the sweetest decks around. Here is the thread (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?16920-BUG-Depths) you're looking for.

[chaosjace]

Just crammed ESG in the deck with confidant for testing. Only running 2 safekeeper main now, cut a needle and duress. Thinking about going to 61 cards.

[jdmdave]

Going to GP Kyoto, so have time to burn on legacy 8 mans this friday/Japanese legacy championship if I don't day 2 the main event.

Should I jam safekeeper depths or jump on the reanimator depths bandwagon? As for Dnsolvers list, is there a more recent sideboard +/- guide? I've been practicing limited for the GP, so a bit out of the loop.

[solnox]

I don't get the hype for the Reanimator Depths deck.

[Claymore]

Let's you attack from two hard to interact with combos, or straight up hard cast Grave Titan. Unfortunately means your deck can shit on you by giving only half of your two combos.

[solnox]

I get that part, I just really hate drawing the wrong halves together.

[DNSolver]

I don't really get the Dark Depths Reanimator hype either. It seems like it has a harder time against 3-4 decks than this deck. Then again, I don't know why people aren't picking up Dank Depths, so...

[solnox]

I've tried to convince other people to play the deck, most of the time the responses have been I hate losing to wasteland, theres no play to the deck. just make a 20/20 hurr durr ggez. I hate no brainstorm, I hate linear decks

[apple713]

very rarely do I lose to wasteland. Its usually a combination of things including wasteland that is the killer. It's like, he played wasteland, then a second wasteland, then karakas, and then crucible of worlds...

I dont like reanimator depths because i dont think it really helps any of our weak matches and just decreases consistency. The reason that all of these different versions of dark depths are popping up is for the simple fact that dark depths is so amazing that even if you try to fuck it up by adding inferior cards to the deck you'll still win alot of games. Also, the fact that its so easily integrated into almost any deck.

Think about it....Any deck with 8 extra/unused land slots could play it. You can play the combo with less land slots if you have tutors. If your deck is playing black you get hexmage, which increases consistency and is kinda decent by himself. He's got first strike and can kill planeswalkers. If you are playing green, you have access to the best tutor, crop rotation. Every deck has to play some amount of lands, why not win games from playing them?

[Negator77']

I've tried to convince other people to play the deck, most of the time the responses have been I hate losing to wasteland, theres no play to the deck. just make a 20/20 hurr durr ggez. I hate no brainstorm, I hate linear decks

The "no Brainstorm" reason is no excuse. :) Obviously the "loses to Wasteland" and and "no play" reasons sound ridiculous to anyone who has a decent amount of reps in. I literally beat a delver opponent who saw all 4 Wastelands (and got to use them all) without seeing a Needle the other day.

[jdmdave]

How would you tune a sideboard for a Japanese meta? Low on storm, but high on blade/S&S

* 3 Decay
* 2 Surgical
* 1 Karakas
* 1 Needle
* 1 Factory
* 3 Libraries
* Emrakul Plan?
* Spheres?
* Mindbreaks (awful?)

[solnox]

I would suggest giving Collective Brutality a try. card is a fucking house

[PeterSouth]

I don't really get the Dark Depths Reanimator hype either. It seems like it has a harder time against 3-4 decks than this deck. Then again, I don't know why people aren't picking up Dank Depths, so...

If anyone wants to learn more about Depths Reanimator they talk about it in depth here - http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?31813-Deck-Reanimator-Depths/page2 and ewlandon has a bunch of twitch videos.

The deck seems very inconsistent and spends alot of turns doing nothing, but then again like half of the opening hands are the nuts. The grave titans are nice, but I don't see why you'd run this over just regular reanimator, unless you afraid that hate will finish you. Like solnox said there's gonna be alot of hands that are like thespian's stage, hexmage, entomb, lake of the dead, griselbrand, collective brutality, lotus petal.

[chaosjace]

Took a janky looking list to a small event. Lot's of blue in the room.
0-2 overall and dropped.
My list:
60 Cards
4x Pithing Needle
4x Thoughtseize
4x Duress
4x Crop Rotation
4x Sylvan Scrying

4x Dark Depths
4x Thespian Stage
4x Urborg Tomb of Yawgmoth
4x Elvish Spirit Guide
4x Dark Confidant

2x Verdant Catacombs
1x Overgrown tomb
4x Vampire Hexmage
1x Seijiri Steppe
2x Sylvan Safekeeper
3x Blooming Marsh
1x Forest
1x Swamp
4x Lotus Petal
1x ghost quarter

SB wasn't ready for what i faced.

Round 1 vs titan post. 0-2
I screwed up majorly in game one, I have token, safekeeper and confidant, he casts ulamog targeting safekeepr and confidant, i foolishly give confidant protection and lose safekeeper, token eats repeal.
Game 2 the flashback fog saves him giving him time to cast ulamog, emrakul and kozilek the great distortion.

Round 2 vs Food chain 0-2
game one he goes down to 5 keeping my board clear then casts and wins with walking balista
game 2 starts dragging on i get a token but he starts cycling through misthollows with deathrite shaman and i can't do anything. I probably could have won if I had needled shaman in the first place. I did kill a 4.5 billion p/t ballista, i had already lost at that point so that was my little reward. Never drew a tutor or rotation to get steppe.

Drop


Thoughts:
Crop rotation has never done me any good, either gets countered or i never see it, or would rather cast sylvan scrying. and is always the first thing i cut when sideboarding
Seijiri steppe is garbage (in my experience), i either draw into it early or they react to the trigger. Safekeeper is way better as it comes down early.
Ghost quarter has never done me any good, in my meta people play enough basics that it feels like a wasted slot.
I did reveal spirit guide to confidant several times, and it didn't impact the game negatively at all, having it back in the deck was nice to cast as a threat, I think i only pitched it for mana one time.
I don't know what I would fill in the crop rotation land package for but will do some tinkering.

[filln]

Crop rotation has never done me any good, either gets countered or i never see it, or would rather cast sylvan scrying. and is always the first thing i cut when sideboarding
Seijiri steppe is garbage (in my experience), i either draw into it early or they react to the trigger. Safekeeper is way better as it comes down early.
Ghost quarter has never done me any good, in my meta people play enough basics that it feels like a wasted slot.

Your experiences are very different than mine, though I guess if you really do have a lot of blue in your meta Crop Rotation is less sexy. That said, it's easily the best land tutor out there and provides some anti-Wasteland protection. Seijiri Steppe has also saved me several times as a way to push through an opposing Delver, Strix, or Marit Lage. As for the Ghost Quarter, not sure why you're approaching it from a mana denial standpoint. It's pretty much only against Wasteland, Karakas, or Maze of Ith.

[chaosjace]

Your experiences are very different than mine, though I guess if you really do have a lot of blue in your meta Crop Rotation is less sexy. That said, it's easily the best land tutor out there and provides some anti-Wasteland protection. Seijiri Steppe has also saved me several times as a way to push through an opposing Delver, Strix, or Marit Lage. As for the Ghost Quarter, not sure why you're approaching it from a mana denial standpoint. It's pretty much only against Wasteland, Karakas, or Maze of Ith.



Not using GQ properly might be a good reason I don't like it.
Dont get me wrong I definately love crop rotation as a card but it has yet to impress me in this deck. It was definately my favorite tutor when I played RGCL.

[apple713]

Took a janky looking list to a small event. Lot's of blue in the room.


Thoughts:
Crop rotation has never done me any good, either gets countered or i never see it, or would rather cast sylvan scrying. and is always the first thing i cut when sideboarding
Seijiri steppe is garbage (in my experience), i either draw into it early or they react to the trigger. Safekeeper is way better as it comes down early.
Ghost quarter has never done me any good, in my meta people play enough basics that it feels like a wasted slot.
I did reveal spirit guide to confidant several times, and it didn't impact the game negatively at all, having it back in the deck was nice to cast as a threat, I think i only pitched it for mana one time.
I don't know what I would fill in the crop rotation land package for but will do some tinkering.

your statements here provide overwhelming evidence that you are not playing the deck correctly. If you are playing against blue you have to make sure to bait other counterspells or wait till they are tapped out. If crop gets countered by FoW, thats fine its an even trade. Consider crop rotating a urborg when you have an extra urborg in your hand. You will ocassionally draw sejiri which sucks but its benefits far outweigh those rare instances. You react to their removal by crop rotating into sejiri. If they have 2x removal spells then well it happens.

[jdmdave]

Crop Rotation is the worst card in the deck? Crop Rotation is THE REASON this deck is even green in the first place.

In prep for the japanese legacy GP side event championship (if I don't day 2), what are everyone's thoughts on running bob over sylvan library? The deck has an easier time casting it & it diverts removal away from marit lage. Moreover, since we are all cutting not of this world, the worst g2/g3 "hit" is 2 mana.

Also, is there a dedicated +/- guide? Solnox? DNsolver?

Here is my board for the tourney

* 3 Abrupt Decay
* 3 Surgical
* 1 Karakas
* 1 Mishra's
* 1 Needle
* 2 Library/Bob
* 4 Sphere (although not sure if necessary in a stormless meta). I've played over 30 rounds of comp rel legacy in Japan and have NEVER faced storm. Is this the Cbrutality slot?

[chaosjace]

I try to preface everything with the fact that I am testing ideas and sharing thoughts on those tests. I am changing the deck a lot to see what I can get away with. Back when I was running into the north the deck felt a lot faster, when I cut those my opponents had a harder time pinning the deck I was playing down. When I switched to confidants the deck felt more consistent.

I never said crop rotation was the worst card in the deck (unless that comment wasn't for me) I merely stated that it has not served me well in my testing so far. (Which is like 4 small events and a ton of goldfishing) I am currently trying to figure out which direction I want to go with the deck.

[PeterSouth]

I try to preface everything with the fact that I am testing ideas and sharing thoughts on those tests. I am changing the deck a lot to see what I can get away with. Back when I was running into the north the deck felt a lot faster, when I cut those my opponents had a harder time pinning the deck I was playing down. When I switched to confidants the deck felt more consistent.

I never said crop rotation was the worst card in the deck (unless that comment wasn't for me) I merely stated that it has not served me well in my testing so far. (Which is like 4 small events and a ton of goldfishing) I am currently trying to figure out which direction I want to go with the deck.

-I haven't played much with the deck either, but wish I could have 12 copies of roto in the deck. Other than what other people have touched on, I love how the new land is able to be tapped right away. I play more 1cc cards in my version so it helps alot. It's also wasteland and port protection, if don't get a needle or just have fewer copies in your deck.

-I'm still messing around with my build too, if you wanna try here's my last build (hard to get mana screwed with this one):

4x Ancient Stirrings
4x Blooming Marsh
4x Crop Rotation
4x Dark Depths
4x Duress
4x Expedition Map
4x Gemstone Mine
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Llanowar Wastes
4x Mana Confluence
1x Mirri's Guile
2x Pithing Needle
4x Sylvan Scrying
4x Thespian's Stage
4x Thoughtseize
2x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4x Vampire Hexmage

-Has anyone tried Infernal Tutor in the deck?

[Lio]

Crop Rotation is the worst card in the deck? Crop Rotation is THE REASON this deck is even green in the first place.

In prep for the japanese legacy GP side event championship (if I don't day 2), what are everyone's thoughts on running bob over sylvan library? The deck has an easier time casting it & it diverts removal away from marit lage. Moreover, since we are all cutting not of this world, the worst g2/g3 "hit" is 2 mana.

Also, is there a dedicated +/- guide? Solnox? DNsolver?

Here is my board for the tourney

* 3 Abrupt Decay
* 3 Surgical
* 1 Karakas
* 1 Mishra's
* 1 Needle
* 2 Library/Bob
* 4 Sphere (although not sure if necessary in a stormless meta). I've played over 30 rounds of comp rel legacy in Japan and have NEVER faced storm. Is this the Cbrutality slot?

I have playset of Dark Confidants with 3 Sylvan Safekeepers maindeck (+1 Sylvan Library SB) and deck performs well (last four local tournaments - 4:0, 3:1, 4:0, top8 in smaller event). Safekeeper+Confidant can win a game itself sometimes. There are rare moments where I would prefer another land tutor over Confidant, but being able to go T1 discard, T2 Confidant or T1 Confidant is huge. He is especially strong against UWx decks, because they have to get rid of him fast and burn StP on him or die. In your case though, I would go for Sylvan Library as two Confidants seem too random (and random Sylvan Library is more powerful) - its either full set or none. Are you on Safekeepers?

In order to incorporate few copies of ESG, I had to cut Expedition Map altogether. Also I dropped Ghost Quarter for Wasteland and want to try Collective Brutalities in SB.

By the way I think Dryad Arbor is better in today's meta as a reliable protection against Edict. It's rather easy to squeeze in 4-5 fetchlands.

[jdmdave]

This is my full list. The 4x Spheres seem underwhelming in a very BUG/Blade/S&S meta.

Mainboard

* 12 combo lands
* 1 GQ
* 1 Steppe
* 1 Bog
* 2 Snow Basics
* 2 Verdant
* 2 Bayou
* 2 Blooming Marsh
* 4 Hexmage
* 4 ESG
* 3 Safekeeper
* 4 Petal
* 4 Scrying
* 3 Into (I'm a fan)
* 3 Pithing Needle
* 4 Duress
* 4 Tseize
* 4 Crop Rotation

Sideboard

* 3 Surgical
* 3 Abrupt Decay
* 1 Factory
* 1 Pithing Needle
* 2 Library
* 4 Sphere
* 1 Karakas

[solnox]

why not just ditch the blooming marshes for fetches/bayou? Submerge basically only exists in RUG delver and you have safekeeper to help that. You could probably replace some spheres with Mindbreaks to give yourself more T0 /1 play without mana accel

Cards for consideration that I am really enjoying:

Collective Brutality- real good vs blade/delver/mav/dnt as well as being decent vs combo decks as an 8th mediocre duress.

Grafdigger's Cage - I really like a 2/1 Split between Surgical and Cage as Reanimator and Storm can easily rip them out of your hand. Card is also good vs elves.

Rite of Consumption - Big Advocate for this card- Good vs Lands, DnT, the Mirror (surprisingly), Maverick, Plow decks without Countermagic. You just need to deal with wasteland and boom dead 20 to the dome.


I feel decay can be safely regulated to a 3 of as you really only need to see 1 copy per game and multiples sometimes feel bad.

[jdmdave]

why not just ditch the blooming marshes for fetches/bayou? Submerge basically only exists in RUG delver and you have safekeeper to help that. You could probably replace some spheres with Mindbreaks to give yourself more T0 /1 play without mana accel

Cards for consideration that I am really enjoying:

Collective Brutality- real good vs blade/delver/mav/dnt as well as being decent vs combo decks as an 8th mediocre duress.

Grafdigger's Cage - I really like a 2/1 Split between Surgical and Cage as Reanimator and Storm can easily rip them out of your hand. Card is also good vs elves.

Rite of Consumption - Big Advocate for this card- Good vs Lands, DnT, the Mirror (surprisingly), Maverick, Plow decks without Countermagic. You just need to deal with wasteland and boom dead 20 to the dome.


I feel decay can be safely regulated to a 3 of as you really only need to see 1 copy per game and multiples sometimes feel bad.


Fair enough, I can switch to 4x Verdant

How would you retool my sideboard? The Japanese meta is low on storm, big on BUG/Sneak & Show. I've played over 30 matches of comp rel legacy in Japan and have never faced storm.

Cards I have on hand

* 3 Notw
* 4 brutality
* 4 Confidant
* 2 deluge
* 2 Golgari Charm
* 1 Crucible
* 1 Ramunap
* 4 Tireless Tracker
* 1 Maze of Ith
* 4th Decay
* 4 Mindbreak Trap
* 4 Ashen Rider
* 4 Inquisition of Kozilek
* 4 Hymn to Tourach

[solnox]

The only relevant cards BUG has vs us are

Baleful Strix - blocks for a turn to let them Lili us.

Liliana of the Veil/Diabolic Edict/Etc - Edicts obviously crush marit lage

Thoughtseize/Hymn- takes our combo tutors and pieces not named lands.

Wasteland- Pithing needle solves this

Decay- sometimes relevant when we lean heavily on needle.

Force/Flusterstorm- blue cards easily beaten with discard

Vs these type of decks I like Mishra's Factory, 2-3 decay, brutality, but otherwise I wouldnt board very heavily. They need a combination of the above to have any chance and our discard makes it hard for them. Watch out for Abrupt decay on needle to turn on a random wasteland. Sylvan Safekeeper makes their edict effects look silly as its nearly impossible to get it off the board.



I usually board out Sylvan Library, a Bog, and some number of map/scrying


Vs Sneak and Show:

I like lock cards and discard. I usually dont even board in abrupt decay for blood moon.

I'd be on some number of spheres+Chalice 4/1 or 3/2 , 4th needle, karakas. Surgical extraction can be handy if you manage to tag a show and tell and needle the sneak attack. Also randomly good vs intuition.

Golgari charm is ok but I've cut the card as I like brutality better. Good vs Blood moon and Sneak attakc but usually they sneak+red mana to win.


I honestly hate Crucible of Worlds. Decks you want it against are grindy and typically have DRS which makes it look silly. the only decks I like it against are Death and Taxes. Lands have exploration and can waste faster than we can replay lands.

I like Tracker if you're expecting some number of blade but I feel fighting with discard, decay, over plows and the forces are usually good enough.

Safekeeper is probably enough to not play NOTW as you don't want too many of these effects as they get stuck in your hand.

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/699112#online

My list for reference

[solnox]

Fair enough, I can switch to 4x Verdant

How would you retool my sideboard? The Japanese meta is low on storm, big on BUG/Sneak & Show. I've played over 30 matches of comp rel legacy in Japan and have never faced storm.

Cards I have on hand

* 3 Notw
* 4 brutality
* 4 Confidant
* 2 deluge
* 2 Golgari Charm
* 1 Crucible
* 1 Ramunap
* 4 Tireless Tracker
* 1 Maze of Ith
* 4th Decay
* 4 Mindbreak Trap
* 4 Ashen Rider
* 4 Inquisition of Kozilek
* 4 Hymn to Tourach

For this metagame I think I want

1 Karakas
1 Mishra's Factory
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Spheres
1 Chalice of the Void
2 Brutality/Hymn/Discard of choice. I think Brutality for more blade decks while hymn and iok are better vs straight combo.
1 Sylvan Library
2 Surgical Extraction

[jdmdave]

Don't own a chalice, so I'll just -1 chalice, +1 library

Is there a more comprehensive +/- guide, or is the one I used back in november for GP Chiba still basically A-ok?

[solnox]

I think the one you used for Chiba was fine.

I think the addition of Sylvan Safekeeper has definitely improved our matchups vs the plow decks.

[jdmdave]

How do you sideboard the brutalities?

Let's assume I go with this (Sphere is lackluster without combo to prey upon). Or just stick with spheres to beat sneak and show?

* 3 surgical
* 4 Confidant (I prefer it to library if I can fit the playset...is this wrong?)
* 1 Karakas
* 1 Factory
* 3 Decay
* 2 Brutality
* 1 Needle

Also I've noticed everyone has moved to the 3x map over 3x into the north plan in the time I stepped away from the deck. Is this really correct? (I own the cards)

[solnox]

I havent really missed the spheres vs Sneak and Show. They help of course but arent completely back breaking. I don't know about Bob. Every time I played him, he ate a push or something..

[apple713]

Don't own a chalice, so I'll just -1 chalice, +1 library

Is there a more comprehensive +/- guide, or is the one I used back in november for GP Chiba still basically A-ok?

if you find a better guide or make one please let me know so i can post it.

[chaosjace]

Has ancient tomb been tested? It probably doesn't do enough for a slot but it activates stage and can cast spirit guide.

[apple713]

Has ancient tomb been tested? It probably doesn't do enough for a slot but it activates stage and can cast spirit guide.

TLDR: its not worth it just for stage unless you can make use if it by casting other cards



If you wanted to include cards like Crucible of Worlds and other 3-4 mana cards it MIGHT be worth considering. I havent tested it in this version but in some other versions i've played and it is just underwhelming for the purpose. Consider it an added benefit rather then a purpose to include it. You have not purpose to include it in the deck but if it was, it would be an added benefit.


The land base is already pretty tight. Recommended stock mana configuration: 24-28 Lands. For each color you want to include you should have at least 10 lands that produce that color. Fetch lands are included in that count.

Considering the mana base below what would you cut?

Answer: you wouldnt....

Example 1 - 23 Lands *

Mana Producing Lands - 19

1 Bojuka Bog
1 Snow-Covered Forest
1 Snow-Covered Swamp
3 Bayou
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Verdant Catacombs

1 Ghost Quarter
1 Sejiri Steppe
4 Thespian's Stage

Non Mana Producing Lands - 4

4 Dark Depths

Other Mana Sources - 8

4 Lotus Petal
4 Elvish Spirit Guide




The version of depths I played Ancient tomb in was with GSZ, Knight of the reliquary, and natural orders. It also played chalice of the void. The deck was fun and stuff. It had better game against combo decks because it could turn 2 natural order into an answer for the combo such as Ruric Thar, the Unbowed or primeval titan -> glacial chasm, or simply just progenitus and then i had time to disrupt their hand.

I made a thread for it but the deck changed iterations many times and my focus was different back then. The post is very old too. The list you would be interested in is likely the last one in the primer. here is is (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?28838-Deck-Chalice-of-the-Dark-Order&highlight=chalice+no+eldrazi)

The deck wasent bad but my goal was to crush miracles. Adding Natural Order to dark depths dint improve that so i tried depths, NO, and 12 post. Having all three made it too inconsistent. Eventually I dropped the depths to keep 12 post and NO because 12 post and NO worked better than 12 post and Depths. Now that 12 post doesn't really have a purpose the deck might be worth revisiting if you were interested in playing a second combo with dark depths. I would highly recommend Natural order as a second combo instead of reanimator. You get to play more creatures, run knight of the reliquary, and if i recall correctly, casting NO against D&T was usually a win cause of progenitus. T1 land -> gsz -> dryad arbor. T2 ancient tomb -> NO dryad arbor -> progenitus. Didnt always happen turn 2 but it was pretty solid.

[jdmdave]

Here is my guide from Chiba. I'm more interested if my cuts are correct vs cards being sideboarded in and a more concrete plan vs S&S.

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?28813-Deck-Dark-Depths&p=979743&viewfull=1#post979743

Sideboard I used

* 3 Abrupt Decay
* 1 Toxic Deluge
* 1 Crucible
* 1 Needle
* 1 Karakas
* 4 Sphere of Resistance
* 3 Surgical Extraction
* 1 Not of this world

[apple713]

Here is my guide from Chiba. I'm more interested if my cuts are correct vs cards being sideboarded in.

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?28813-Deck-Dark-Depths&p=979743&viewfull=1#post979743

Sideboard I used

* 3 Abrupt Decay
* 1 Toxic Deluge
* 1 Crucible
* 1 Needle
* 1 Karakas
* 4 Sphere of Resistance
* 3 Surgical Extraction
* 1 Not of this world

Thats probably good enough. I'll work on formatting it and add it when i have time.

[jdmdave]

If you guys have a more definitive +/- plan vs (1) Delver, (2) BUG, & (3) S&S, that would be greatly appreciated.

[apple713]

If you guys have a more definitive +/- plan vs (1) Delver, (2) BUG, & (3) S&S, that would be greatly appreciated.

some ppl would probably disagree, but i like abrupt decay against delver. They have a low creature count, so being able to kill an early creature that puts you on a clock is critical if you are struggling to find the combo pieces. You could probably add the abrupt decays and deluge against BUG too. I'd probably take out fast mana if you have it or sylvan library. Taking out sylvan is generally ok because its the only target for their abrupt decays so it never sticks around long. In my version I leave them in because there are many more targets for abrupt decay.

I think bug and delver are more about how you play the match rather than sideboarding. I've never had an issue against BUG but lots of ppl do and have expressed it here.

[jdmdave]

1. Thoughts on map vs into? Is Map really superior?
2. turns out storm is more popular than before, so I'll keep the spheres.

[Negator77']

some ppl would probably disagree, but i like abrupt decay against delver. They have a low creature count, so being able to kill an early creature that puts you on a clock is critical if you are struggling to find the combo pieces. You could probably add the abrupt decays and deluge against BUG too. I'd probably take out fast mana if you have it or sylvan library. Taking out sylvan is generally ok because its the only target for their abrupt decays so it never sticks around long. In my version I leave them in because there are many more targets for abrupt decay.

I think bug and delver are more about how you play the match rather than sideboarding. I've never had an issue against BUG but lots of ppl do and have expressed it here.

Agree on Decay. Some Delver players have even made room recently for a Needle or two. Having Decay around is nice for that purpose on top of the reason you mentioned above. Having a catchall that prevents needless losses and stops their clock cold is nice. I've also run into spots where they have multiple creatures and you don't have access to steppe (or they counter a tutor). Swinging gets Marit Lage blocked and you die on the swing back + burn. Decay mops up those situations or is an additional card to push through a Delver a turn faster.


1. Thoughts on map vs into? Is Map really superior?
2. turns out storm is more popular than before, so I'll keep the spheres.

1 - All a matter of opinion. It's additional speed/redundancy -vs- versatility. I personally don't think speed is an issue and all of the versions seem to have no issue with redundancy in finding Depths. The versatility of being able to grab any land is what makes Map worth it.

2 - DN was trying out Mindbreak Traps not that long ago for Storm and super fast reanimator draws. That is a possible card there too for BG. FWIW, I haven't been running into nearly as much Storm recently.

[jdmdave]

You guys are more familiar with the deck so I'll just take your word for it.

It would be super awesome if we could collaborate on a revised sideboard plan with a stock 3 AD/3 yard hate/1 karakas/1 needle/1 factory/ 4 sphere or mindbreak.

The other thought I had is wouldn't leyline of the void help shave some sideboard slots? The card is incredible vs storm while being redundant with surgical.

[filln]

Question re: Mishra's Factory for those of you using 2-3x Sylvan Safekeeper in the main, are you still keeping a Factory in the board? I've been really happy with the Factory but recently acquired a set of Safekeepers to try out and feel like the redundancy to Edict effects might be unnecessary. Thoughts?

[DNSolver]

Sideboard vs Delver:

+4 Decay +1 Needle
-5 fast mana/Duress (depends on version and play/draw)

Example: Grixis Stifle Delver
Stifle is Time Walk or even GG when our opponent thinks about their cards correctly. So play or draw I would keep Duresses and cut 4 fast mana first, then a Duress.

Example: BUG Hymn Delver
No Stifles, but they have Hymns and Goyfs. ESG has to stay in our hand to do anything relevant and we're getting Hymn'd. So cut 4 ESG and a discard spell.

Exception: UR Delver
In this matchup you could probably win regardless of how you board, but obviously you don't need Needles when your opponent has only Grim Lavamancer as possible names.


Vs. BUG:

I like Sylvan Library against the slower versions, especially on the play, because we have time to get selection and they don't have pressure to punish drawing extra cards off it. If they spend their turn 2 to Decay it, that's fine because Decay on Needle could blow us out later. I always board in Decays to hit Strix, DRS, and Needles.

Kinda depends on the version though. Some of the more aggressive Leovold/TNN builds punish Library openers with a turn 2 3 power guy, which clocks us pretty fast if they can block with a Strix and/or gain life with DRS. So you probably just want to be faster. But that depends: some people sideboard out the 3-drops against this deck. Regardless, the matchup should be pretty favorable like most other matchups.


Vs. Storm:

+4 Mindbreak +2 Surgical +3 Library
-3 Scrying -3 Safekeeper -3 Needle

Scrying is too slow. I like Library to dig into more discard / Traps. On the draw against TES I would probably mulligan pretty aggressively because it's unfavorable without Trap in the hand. On the play I would keep a reasonable hand with Discard->Library or two discard plus a reasonably fast combo. Against ANT you can be more forgiving to opening hands, but I prioritize destroying their hand over combo'ing.

[jdmdave]

Would you have mindbreak traps in a sight unseen meta? (Japanese legacy championship)

I have noticed an uptick in storm finishes in Japan, but I've never faced the deck in person (30+ matches in Japan). Sneak and Show on the otherhand is one of those matches where I've faced it rather frequently and never really feel that solid about the G2/G3 plan (4 sphere, 1 Karakas, 3 decay, 2 Library, sometimes surgicals)

[Claymore]

On the topic of Ancient Tomb, I think it's main use (activating Stage-Depths on 3 lands through a Crop Rotation) is already performed with Urborg. That's the main splash use of it in RG Lands anyway, outside of beating Daze on turn 2 Loams.

In builds that want the extra chance to force out turn 1 sphere/Chalice, I could see Tomb there. Forest-Crop-Tomb-Chalice is a valid play line. 1x Tomb in place of an Urborg or basic land could help as piece #9-13 to get a turn 1 lock piece (4x Guide, 4x Petal, 4x Crop, 1x Tomb).

With Jace's Xlanan Walk About set or whatever, the Spyglass (2, look at opp hand, Pithing Needle) could be an important addition to this deck that would further help with adding a Tomb.

[solnox]

I like abrupt decay vs all the delver decks just to kill needle or to get a delver/strix out of the way. It also randomly tags DRS if you really need to.

I like map a little better than into the north as it can be used to tutor up urborg and other mana producing lands and doesnt expose you to wasteland/surgical.

I've found sylvan library to be mediocre these days vs bug decks as they all run 1-2 leovold.

Interesting to cut ESG vs Delver decks. I really like ESG as it lets you get those free wins vs Daze etc.

[apple713]

@leyline
The issue is that its ONLY good if it starts the game in play. If you have to cast it, then you are screwed by anything already in the graveyard. Leyline does not remove the graveyard when it enters play. Decks that it is good against are gonna be able to drop things into the yard and use them before you can hardcast this.

So assuming normal draw chances tou have 40% chance to get this in your opening 7. If you want to mull repeatedly to get this it seems questionable since the decks that its good against can bounce it, usually with chain of vapor, which gives them enough time to win.

@esg

Seems pointless to keep in vs daze. It's certainly not a free win because it cost you a card. Daze is a free win if you just play around it and it doesnt cost a card. Unless they have a fast clock daze shouldnt be an issue, especially since you have abrupt decays to slow them down.

@sneak and show

Karakas takes care of show and tell and through the breach, pithing needle for sneak attack, abrupt decay for blood moons. Obviously things can go wrong if they counter your answers. The deck is simply a good deck and even in my version which has chalices and liliana of the veil i still lose some games. The deck has nut draw hands where tou simply cannot win against it no matter what you have. The cards i named are generally the best. I used to play S&T before depths and id go back to it if depths got banned for some reason.

[ComplexPants]

I don't really get the Dark Depths Reanimator hype either. It seems like it has a harder time against 3-4 decks than this deck. Then again, I don't know why people aren't picking up Dank Depths, so...

The big advantages are that it can be faster and can attack from multiple angles, all of which make it harder for opponents to deal with. The deck seems much more fragile to me. I have the cards online, but have only play 2 matches with it.

[jdmdave]

Would you guys be interested in me uploading the sideboard +/- guide onto a google drive so we can have a realtime source for tournaments? I'll make it editable so you can guys can make appropriate changes.

[ComplexPants]

I wouldn't hate that.

[apple713]

The big advantages are that it can be faster and can attack from multiple angles, all of which make it harder for opponents to deal with. The deck seems much more fragile to me. I have the cards online, but have only play 2 matches with it.

any advantage is offset by the fact that its weak to the same cards as our current game plan.

[munyee]

Hello,

I am about to finish this beautiful deck in saturday, based on the following deck list: http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=16165&d=299745&f=LE

I assume the singleton of Bayou might be a budget reason in Paper but I do not want to shell out for more at the moment.

Question: How viable this landbase in your opinion? Am I good with it, or the more Bayou is crucial? I can add an extra Overgrown Tomb instead of a Blooming Marsh if that helps, but I have no experience with the deck yet, so I would like to rely on your, more experienced players' opinion.

Cheers

[jdmdave]

blooming marsh is superior to tomb in this deck. I played GP Chiba to an 11-4 finish with only 1 bayou and 3x marsh.

[munyee]

blooming marsh is superior to tomb in this deck. I played GP Chiba to an 11-4 finish with only 1 bayou and 3x marsh.

Can I see your list? I am also interested in SBs and your general land base (and congrats on the nice run :D)

[ashent]

Can someone explain to me why Blooming Marsh isn't horrible because I can't fetch it?

I currently play this list with 3 Bayou. If I really need the Bayou but I don't have one, what does my Verdant Catacombs do? It can only grab 1 of 2 basics, I may not even have an Urborg out to make the Forest a proper land, etc.

So is Blooming Marsh just a great land to have in your opening hand but unsearchable later?

[filln]

Can someone explain to me why Blooming Marsh isn't horrible because I can't fetch it?

I currently play this list with 3 Bayou. If I really need the Bayou but I don't have one, what does my Verdant Catacombs do? It can only grab 1 of 2 basics, I may not even have an Urborg out to make the Forest a proper land, etc.

So is Blooming Marsh just a great land to have in your opening hand but unsearchable later?

The main advantage it has is against Submerge. It's also better against Stifle, I guess. I like running Bayou and Verdant Catacomb better because Wasteland and Blood Moon are greater threats in my mind.

[DNSolver]

The Stifle argument for Blooming Marsh over Verdant doesn't hold water when you consider that Stifle was going to do something anyway. I often *love* it when my opponent stifles a turn 2 fetchland instead of getting a Time Walk later in the game by countering a Hexmage or Stage activation. Time walk on turn 1 or 2 is a lot bettter for us than time walk on turn 5-6 when it results in 5-6 more damage from creatures.

[apple713]

The Stifle argument for Blooming Marsh over Verdant doesn't hold water when you consider that Stifle was going to do something anyway. I often *love* it when my opponent stifles a turn 2 fetchland instead of getting a Time Walk later in the game by countering a Hexmage or Stage activation. Time walk on turn 1 or 2 is a lot bettter for us than time walk on turn 5-6 when it results in 5-6 more damage from creatures.

I agree. Also, good players wont stifle your fetchlands in game 2. IF they do, its generally a mistake and suggests that they have another in hand. Blooming marsh's benefit is really just against submerge which isnt as prevalent as it once was. Its also a mediocre cost effective substitute for bayou. This deck is cheap tho, even compared to a standard deck so forking over some dough / other cards for bayous shouldnt be too bad.

[hymnyou]

Got 4th at legacy classic in Atlanta tonight, 150 players

[myopic]

Got 4th at legacy classic in Atlanta tonight, 150 players

Well Done. How were the Safekeepers ?

[jdmdave]

Good work on 4th, I ended up going 7-2 then 11-4 at the GP, so didn't have time to play legacy.

[Thoughtsauce]

Good work on 4th, I ended up going 7-2 then 11-4 at the GP, so didn't have time to play legacy.

You went 11-4 at another GP?

[Claymore]

Probably day 1, end of day 2 record

[solnox]

Just got home from Channel Fireball's bimonthly legacy 1.5k I think there were 86 people so 7 rounds of swiss with a cut to top 8

I ended up being #1 Seed going 7-0 and dropping only 1 game in the Swiss to ANT


My List

4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Bayou
4 Dark Depths
4 Thespian's Stage
1 Forest
1 Swamp
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Sejiri Steppe
1 Bojuka Bog
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Duress
4 Thoughtseize
4 Vampire Hexmage
4 Crop Rotation
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Sylvan Scrying
3 Sylvan Safekeeper
1 Sylvan Library
2 Expedition Map
4 Lotus Petal
3 Pithing Needle

SB:

3 Abrupt Decay
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Karakas
1 Mishra's Factory
1 Pithing NEedle
2 Rite of Consumption
3 Sphere of Resistance
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Sylvan Library

I played vs RG Lands, 2x Elves, Deathblade, Mirror/Kind of, ANT, Grixis Delver.

Lost in the Top 8 Quarters to Eldrazi Taxes where a combination of Karakas, Wasteland, Displacers and Batterskull got me good.


Grafdigger's Cage overperformed for me, crushing Elves with it T1 in both SB games. I think spheres are better than mindbreak trap as they're much harder to beat than Mindbreak.

Sylvan Safekeeper is the truth. Card overperformed in most matchups I needed it to. Without it, I had 0 chance vs RG lands and it crushed the mirror where my opponents' abrupt decays were super awkward vs my hexmage. Vs Eldrazi and Taxes, it protected me from Karakas and other shenanigans. I'm still not sure on whether or not I want 4 Duress./2 Map vs 3 Duress 3 Map yet.

Deck ran like hotfire and I won games where I shouldn't have without the correct topdeck.

[jdmdave]

Well done. I think I'm going to be on this deck for team trios constructed barring any unforeseen meta shifts.

[williamberry]

I played BG Depths to a 5-2 finish yesterday at Baltimore's Win-A-Mox.

Miracles (2-0)
Aggro Loam (0-2)
Elves (2-1)
Sneak and Show (2-1)
Lands (0-2)
Goblins (2-1)
Grixis Delver (2-0)

I thought people might find it interested to see how NOT to play Turbo Depths. I was feature matched against David Long for Game 2 of our match yesterday in Round 5. The coverage begins at 4:23 of this video: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/163293145

A word of warning - I am very aware that I play terribly in this game. I only listened to the audio on the video on my car ride home yesterday (I haven't actually re-watched it yet). Based on the commentary and what I remember from the game, I know I mistapped once or twice, I think I missed Bogging his graveyard at one point that would have mattered, I made the absolute bonehead Steppe play, and worst of all I missed the kill entirely with the porting of his Karakas at the end of the turn.

I also think I made a few less obvious mistakes. I think I should have used my first Surgical Extraction on his Ghost Quarter, rather than the Loam, especially given that he plays Burning Wish. I received some questions about why I Surgicaled his Crop Rotations with my second copy of the card. At that point, I was hoping to make Marit Lage and cast Rite of Consumption all in the same turn (which is my plan post-board if I can't win quickly). I wanted to exile the Crop Rotations to stop a possible Rotation into Glacial Chasm. That said, I probably made a few plays that don't gel with that line...

I have never had a camera match before, I don't get to play nearly as much as I would like, I was extremely nervous, and this was my first actual tournament with the deck (I'm a Nic Fit player mainly). The Steppe misplay probably requires the most explanation...The only real games I have played with the deck since building it about a month ago have been against a friend who plays Death and Taxes. I am so used to Stepping in response to Swords to Plowshares, that somehow that line just got incorrectly burned into my brain. I guarantee I will never do that again...

I felt that I played well the rest of the tournament, but now I'm starting to wonder where else I screwed up if I played this game so poorly.

If you have any other feedback or scolding please let me know. I'd love to become more competent with this deck, as I plan to play it in the upcoming SCG team events.

[Claymore]

http://www.thrabenuniversity.com/?p=1197

Interesting DnT vs Negator's Turbo Depths "What's the Play?"

Obvious line is to tap all out and Crop Rotate the Stage for a Stage, play Depths and combo out, but leaves you open to a sand-bagged Karakas that the article hints about in hand.

Do you Crop Rotate, play depths, GQ the Wasteland and wait to make Marit Lage EOT? I don't see relevance of AD, Mox is too expensive, and can't see any Surgical targets - except maybe just GQ the Wasteland, Surgical it to check the hand, and make Marit Lage after your next draw step.

[apple713]

http://www.thrabenuniversity.com/?p=1197

Interesting DnT vs Negator's Turbo Depths "What's the Play?"

Obvious line is to tap all out and Crop Rotate the Stage for a Stage, play Depths and combo out, but leaves you open to a sand-bagged Karakas that the article hints about in hand.

Do you Crop Rotate, play depths, GQ the Wasteland and wait to make Marit Lage EOT? I don't see relevance of AD, Mox is too expensive, and can't see any Surgical targets - except maybe just GQ the Wasteland, Surgical it to check the hand, and make Marit Lage after your next draw step.


Thats not the obvious line of play. I wouldnt be wasting a crop rotation on the chance that he doesnt have karakas. there are no obvious lines here. Id like to know why negator didnt surgical, make the token, or copy something at the end of last turn.

Negator isnt likely to be able to play the surgical to remove something like stp because he would have to force it out if the hand by creating a token. He wouldnt have time to reassemble the combo a second time given the clock d&t has on him. So it should be used for information.

If you dont cast decay you pretty much lose it. It will cost 3 mana in the future which is a whole turns worth currently. Also a smart d&t player wont tap mom and keep it to protect a flickerwisp, so you wont really be able to do much in the future with an abrupt decay. Its use it or lose it. You want to cast it to at least buy more turns.


There are two plays imo
1) to either do nothing and wait to draw you card and make decisions based on that OR
2) use the extra mana to cast abrupt decay. My target would likely be thalia since it hinders your ability to react and cast spells appropriately. However if you draw a sejiri steppe and cant crop rotate for it later youll lose because tou cant get theough the flickerwisp. If you tatget the flicker wisp tou dont have to worry about crop rotating into steppe to get by the blocker but risk being short on mana or delaying yourself an extra turn to make sure the coast is clear.

Id probaby abrupt decay thalia, and gq wasteland, then surgical the wasteland for information. That way you still have 2 crops, 1 for sejiri, and 1 to kill a karakas. You have reduced board threat and gained valuable information.



Id like to know what negator did do and if he won. Message me if you dont want to spoil it for others.

[Claymore]

The other line I saw on the internet was to AD the Flickerwisp so you don't have to use Sejiri on it, GQ the wasteland, play the Depths, then on the drawstep play Surgical on the Wasteland. Gets info, but you would need to draw a land that turn or next in order to be able to combo and play Crop Rotation on the same turn with Thalia still out - while still dealing with Rishaden Port.

[apple713]

The other line I saw on the internet was to AD the Flickerwisp so you don't have to use Sejiri on it, GQ the wasteland, play the Depths, then on the drawstep play Surgical on the Wasteland. Gets info, but you would need to draw a land that turn or next in order to be able to combo and play Crop Rotation on the same turn with Thalia still out - while still dealing with Rishaden Port.

I guess you gq wasteland, tap stage to surgical wasteland, gain information, draw card, then decide whether to hit wisp or thalia.

If tou draw another land you may want it for mox if thalia isnt in play for the extra green.

[Meyer]

I played BG Depths to a 5-2 finish yesterday at Baltimore's Win-A-Mox.

Miracles (2-0)
Aggro Loam (0-2)
Elves (2-1)
Sneak and Show (2-1)
Lands (0-2)
Goblins (2-1)
Grixis Delver (2-0)

I thought people might find it interested to see how NOT to play Turbo Depths. I was feature matched against David Long for Game 2 of our match yesterday in Round 5. The coverage begins at 4:23 of this video: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/163293145

A word of warning - I am very aware that I play terribly in this game. I only listened to the audio on the video on my car ride home yesterday (I haven't actually re-watched it yet). Based on the commentary and what I remember from the game, I know I mistapped once or twice, I think I missed Bogging his graveyard at one point that would have mattered, I made the absolute bonehead Steppe play, and worst of all I missed the kill entirely with the porting of his Karakas at the end of the turn.

I also think I made a few less obvious mistakes. I think I should have used my first Surgical Extraction on his Ghost Quarter, rather than the Loam, especially given that he plays Burning Wish. I received some questions about why I Surgicaled his Crop Rotations with my second copy of the card. At that point, I was hoping to make Marit Lage and cast Rite of Consumption all in the same turn (which is my plan post-board if I can't win quickly). I wanted to exile the Crop Rotations to stop a possible Rotation into Glacial Chasm. That said, I probably made a few plays that don't gel with that line...

I have never had a camera match before, I don't get to play nearly as much as I would like, I was extremely nervous, and this was my first actual tournament with the deck (I'm a Nic Fit player mainly). The Steppe misplay probably requires the most explanation...The only real games I have played with the deck since building it about a month ago have been against a friend who plays Death and Taxes. I am so used to Stepping in response to Swords to Plowshares, that somehow that line just got incorrectly burned into my brain. I guarantee I will never do that again...

I felt that I played well the rest of the tournament, but now I'm starting to wonder where else I screwed up if I played this game so poorly.

If you have any other feedback or scolding please let me know. I'd love to become more competent with this deck, as I plan to play it in the upcoming SCG team events.
Yeah I just randomly browsed Twitch Sunday afternoon (European time) and saw the first round on camera: Opposition Elves (with Faeries?) beating Sneak&Show. Wow I had to watch that!

I was really excited to see Turbo Depths on camera later on for two reasons: First, it’s always nice to have coverage of your own deck, especially if it’s rare to find (big shoutout to DNSolver at this point, your videos helped me getting a feeling for this deck considering strategy, matchups, mulligans and sideboarding). Second, I have gone through the Lands matchup only in theory, never faced that deck yet. In said theory it looks horrible; not matchup/ win percentage wise, but like a real ‘brain war’ – as your featured match proves I guess. So I’m thankful for the information you provide, even if it was not as successful as it used to be.

Considering your main ‘misplays’: Yes, the Sejiri Steppe vs. Karakas wasn’t well thought, but in fact it didn’t affect the outcome of the game (?). Next time you’ll know! And yes, there was a winning line (I saw that way before the commentators mentioned it, which speaks in my favor?) that you may have missed which cost you the game. But from a third person perspective it’s always much easier than for the player in the competitive tournament environment. If you’re nervous (and I think most of us would be, primarily on camera), your brain is just under stress and it seems impossible to have a complete view over complex situations. Therefore, we play as much as we can and as good as we can to remember those situations if something similarly happens again.

That said, I was in the same situation 3 weeks ago. My first 6 round tournament, was at 3:1. A win would have secured prizes. Game 3 I totally dominated my UB Reanimator opponent with discard, Surgicals, Bojuka Bog and Karakas for Elesh Norn. He had Needle on Stage, so I searched for a Hexmage with the help of Sylvan Library for about 10 turns. Failed to find one, and at some point he used one of his reanimation spells to get one of my already dead Hexmages and beats me to death. After the match he told me that I could have won easily by removing counters from Dark Depths by paying 3 mana. Facepalm. It was that simple. Maybe one of the reasons for this was that I had a token/chip showing ‘10’ to put on my Dark Depths which subconsciously suggests that I have only my ‘static’ combo to win a game, without the ability to grind and spend 3 mana a turn. Now I use a dice. But I learn from my mistakes and get better with the deck the more I play it, or watch it being played. Again, for beginners I recommend DNSolvers videos if they’re still on YouTube. I watched them more than once and learned a lot.

Some sidenotes:

1. I play one Ratchet Bomb maindeck, one in the side. Today it won game 3 vs Goblin Stompy (which I think is even worse matchup than Dragon Stompy/ Big Red/ Red Prison or whatever 8 moon decks are around, because of Mogg Catcher/ Goblin Settler / Kiki Jiki interactions) by blowing up 1 Magus and 2 Blood Moons. Being colorless helps a lot. It has also applications vs DnT, Elves and other decks with permanents in the 1-2 cmc range. Yes it can be slow, but with fast mana it’s a solid turn 1 play, sometimes blowing up their Chalice clearing the coast for discard into Crop Rotation into win.

2. My testing partner on Sneak&Show/ Omni has bought Leylines of Sanctity after being crushed by discard (the matchup was like 60:40 in my favor). He was very lucky having it in his openers recently, but that card can be problematic. What should I do? Boarding out discard in that matchup is dangerous, and I don’t want to have mind games like ‘does he board them or not?’ so that I board it out with no need, therefore weakening my chances even more.

3. On the Sylvan Safekeeper discussion: I have had more success with them in the last two months, so I’ll possibly never look back (at NoTW).

4. Sylvan Library. Just play it. That card is such a beast and does so much for this deck. But how many? I don’t like them in the sideboard, but I also don’t want to clog up my maindeck.

[solnox]

What did you cut for Ratchet Bomb?

On Safekeeper: Card is just so good at making spot removal look awful. The common answers of Karakas, Swords to Plowshares and edict look so much worse in the face of Safekeeper.

I've had a miracles opponent surgical all my safekeepers after Forcing it as it was completely obnoxious and forced him to have terminus which is much harder to float on top these days.

[chaosjace]

I've decided to cut confidant lately, while I love everything he does in the deck, I think it slows me down too much and eats removal as someone mentioned earlier.
-4 confidant

+ pitching needle
+ sylvan safekeeper
+ bojuja bog
+ sylvan library

[ashent]

RE: Sylvan Library

I really like 1 mb 1 sb that I saw recently in here. Previously I have tried the 3 Libraries in the side approach for Swords matchups but it feels pretty silly, is useless in multiples, and sometimes it feels like a full 3 slots wasted when you don't run into any decks playing white. I feel like I'm going to do this 1/1 split for a while and see how it goes.

Game 1 it is on the slower side but can really dig you out of those situations where you are drawing 1 card a turn with no Brainstorm feeling like a dope and never topdecking anything good.

[hovercraft]

Anyone else testing any Junk Depths lists with Solemnity out?

Here is what I have been testing out so far. Solemnity definitely makes the deck pretty resilient when you have cards like Loam, Excavator, Knight and Crop Rotation.


2 Bayou
4 Dark Depths
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Forest
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Karakas
1 Savannah
2 Scrubland
1 Swamp
2 Thespian's Stage
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Wasteland
2 Windswept Heath

4 Mox Diamond


Combo Pieces/diggers:
4 Crop Rotation
2 Life from the Loam
2 Solemnity
1 Sylvan Library
4 Vampire Hexmage

Green Sun's Z package:
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Ramunap Excavator
1 Sylvan Safekeeper

Removal/Discard:
2 Abrupt Decay
4 Thoughtseize
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Vindicate

Sideboard:

1 Bojuka Bog
2 Liliana of the Veil
1 Maze of Ith
2 Pithing Needle
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Sphere of Resistance
2 Swords to Plowshares
1 Toxic Deluge
2 Trinisphere

[filln]

I ran the following at my LGS' weekly:

4 Solemnity
1 Phyrexian Unlife
3 Enlightened Tutor
4 Crop Rotation
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Mox Diamond
3 Thoughtseize
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Life from the Loam
1 Sylvan Library
2 Gideon of the Trials
1 Scattered Groves
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Dark Depths
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Karakas
2 Wasteland
3 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
2 Savannah
1 Bayou
1 Scrubland
2 Plains
2 Forest
1 Swamp

3 Swords to Plowshares
1 Sacred Ground
3 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Leyline of the Void
1 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Containment Priest
1 Seal of Cleansing
1 Pithing Needle

It actually performed a lot better than I expected and I didn't have major mana color issues thanks to both Mox Diamond and Deathrite. The sideboard I threw together that day and I would probably shave an Enlightened Tutor from the main for another Thoughtseize. This build is a pretty far departure from Turbo Depths though, so I'll keep the rest of the analysis for a separate thread.

[Negator77']

Thats not the obvious line of play. I wouldnt be wasting a crop rotation on the chance that he doesnt have karakas. there are no obvious lines here. Id like to know why negator didnt surgical, make the token, or copy something at the end of last turn.

Negator isnt likely to be able to play the surgical to remove something like stp because he would have to force it out if the hand by creating a token. He wouldnt have time to reassemble the combo a second time given the clock d&t has on him. So it should be used for information.

If you dont cast decay you pretty much lose it. It will cost 3 mana in the future which is a whole turns worth currently. Also a smart d&t player wont tap mom and keep it to protect a flickerwisp, so you wont really be able to do much in the future with an abrupt decay. Its use it or lose it. You want to cast it to at least buy more turns.


There are two plays imo
1) to either do nothing and wait to draw you card and make decisions based on that OR
2) use the extra mana to cast abrupt decay. My target would likely be thalia since it hinders your ability to react and cast spells appropriately. However if you draw a sejiri steppe and cant crop rotate for it later youll lose because tou cant get theough the flickerwisp. If you tatget the flicker wisp tou dont have to worry about crop rotating into steppe to get by the blocker but risk being short on mana or delaying yourself an extra turn to make sure the coast is clear.

Id probaby abrupt decay thalia, and gq wasteland, then surgical the wasteland for information. That way you still have 2 crops, 1 for sejiri, and 1 to kill a karakas. You have reduced board threat and gained valuable information.



Id like to know what negator did do and if he won. Message me if you dont want to spoil it for others.

Answer (best line in our opinions) and what I did got posted here:
http://www.thrabenuniversity.com/?p=1208

Since it's not mentioned in either article, I didn't have mana untapped outside of a stage at the end of his turn to decay... My previous turn was cast map, crack map, play land. He had no graveyard and GQ was tapped, so there was nothing to even think about hitting with surgical at that point.

[Darkgobs]

Answer (best line in our opinions) and what I did got posted here:
http://www.thrabenuniversity.com/?p=1208

Since it's not mentioned in either article, I didn't have mana untapped outside of a stage at the end of his turn to decay... My previous turn was cast map, crack map, play land. He had no graveyard and GQ was tapped, so there was nothing to even think about hitting with surgical at that point.Thank you for the answer. It is truely not the same thing trying to solve a problem like this one during a real game or at home while eating breakfast...not to speak about tournaments! If you have other like this, don't hesitate, it is truly instructive (and fun!)

On an other note: how satisfied are you with the list from this problem? Especially, what about the lonely Stifle?

In advance, thanks

Envoyé de mon Blackphone 2 en utilisant Tapatalk

[Barthalamou]

It's been a very long time since I've posted.
I've been playing Turbo Depths for a long time now, the first big tournament I took this deck to was GP Louisville back in January 2016. I went 6-3 day one then scrubbed out day 2.
Recently went to a local legacy tournament with about 20 people and wen 5-1-2, both draws were ID for top 8 then ID for split 1/2 place.
Match One: Punishing Jund 2-0
Game 1 I had a quick token through DD/Stage/Urborg. He thought I was on lands.
Game 2 He had me dead with 2 DRS, 2 Bob, Lili, 2 Punishing Fire for exactly lethal. He should have attacked first then minus Lili to make me sac but he instead ticked her up and then swung, I assumed he had a second Lili but made the token anyways to block. He had nothing in hand and I won on the swing back.

Match Two: UWg stoneblade
I forget what happens exactly in this match. It was mostly natural combo with DD/Stage/urborg with discard backup. I remember him being upset about have natural combo both games and he also boarded for me being lands, such as graffdiggers cage, relic of progenitus.

Match Three: D&T 0-2
Game 1 We go back and forth, He ends up getting there with flickerwisp and Mom shenanigans.
Game 2 The deck just did not want to cooperate. Drew 3 Into the North and 2 Dark depths in a row.... Flipped 3 Urborgs and a NOTW to Bob for lethal.

Match Four: Burn 2-1
Game 1 DD, Hexmage, Urborg, Duress hand. I knew he was on burn so I snap kept. He went first but I took his fireblast and he was way short of lethal.
Game 2 I fetched the wrong part of the combo to delay me one turn. I had a token on the field at 2 life and he had Guide. He needed to topdeck a bolt.... He does.
Game 3 I had DD, Hexmage, Urborg, Petal, Thoughtsieze, Duress, Surgical. Turn one I urborg, petal, duress, thoughtsieze. Take fireblast and price. T2 token pass, He has guide and plays second land into eidolon. I win.

Match Five: ID to top 8

Match Six: D&T same player as before. 2-0
We almost all drew to split prizes but one person didn't want to.
Game 1 He keeps a risky hand with 1 land and vial. I take vial with thoughtseize and he doesn't draw a second land.
Game 2 We each go back and forth making small plays but mostly setting up. I had 2x needle on wasteland, sylvan safekeeper on board, like 6 lands in play. NOTW and crop rotation in hand. I make a token in his combat to block, give it shroud, block and kill his attacker... He plays Councils Judgement to take the token.... I crop rotate for thespian stage EOT and sylvan scrying for DD and wait to make a token his EOT. He doesn't have 1 answer let alone 3.

Match Seven: Lands 2-0, Great player but he has never seen the deck played and assumed it was a loam engine.
Game 1 We go back and forth setting up, we both get DD stage in play. I GQ his karakas EOT. Draw thoughtseize to see he has no crop rotation. Naturally play Steppe to give pro black and swing for the win.
Game 2 We ended up in a similar position. I have NOTW, Crop rotation, Crop rotation, He has not seen NOTW yet so he does not play around it. I forget exactly what happens but we each blow everything we have except I have NOTW in hand and he has crop rotation during my combat. I attack and he casts crop rotation. If he wouldve gotten Glacial Chasm it wouldve been GG because he can loam his karakas back on his turn. He fetches maze of ith and proceeds to read what NOTW does.
Into the finals!
Match Eight vs BR Reanimator ID
We draw because we are the last 2 in the play area. I felt pretty good about this matchup with all of our discard, karakas, bog, and surgicals.

I love the Sylvan safekeepers main but NOTW is way too good in certain matchups to cut it completely, I run 2 safekeepers main 2 NOTW side. I'll post a deck list tomorrow.
Decklist
4x Dark Depths
4x Thespian's Stage
4x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4x Verdant Catacombs
3x Bayou
1x Snow-Covered Forest
1x Snow-Covered Swamp
1x Ghost Quarter
1x Sejiri Steppe
1x Bojuka Bog
-
4x Vampire Hexmage
2x Sylvan Safekeeper
4x Elvish Spirit Guide

4x Thoughtseize
3x Duress
4x Sylvan Scrying
3x Into the North
4x Crop Rotation

3x Pithing Needle
4x Lotus Petal
1x Sylvan Library
---Sideboard
1x Pithing Needle
1x Karakas
2x Abrupt Decay
1x Mishras Factory
2x Not of This World
2x Surigcal Extraction
2x Dark Confidant
4x Mindbreak Trap


Thanks for reading!

[Negator77']

Thank you for the answer. It is truely not the same thing trying to solve a problem like this one during a real game or at home while eating breakfast...not to speak about tournaments! If you have other like this, don't hesitate, it is truly instructive (and fun!)

On an other note: how satisfied are you with the list from this problem? Especially, what about the lonely Stifle?

In advance, thanks

Envoyé de mon Blackphone 2 en utilisant Tapatalk

I love the list, it has been very good to/for me. The Stifle has been so good that I've considered adding a second to the main or sb.

As an aside, a Depths vs DNT match-up guide got posted at Thraben University outlining things from the dnt side.. There is a lot of good info on there:
http://www.thrabenuniversity.com/?page_id=1263

[apple713]

I love the list, it has been very good to/for me. The Stifle has been so good that I've considered adding a second to the main or sb.

As an aside, a Depths vs DNT match-up guide got posted at Thraben University outlining things from the dnt side.. There is a lot of good info on there:
http://www.thrabenuniversity.com/?page_id=1263

addded to the sb guide.

[Fuzzy]

Hi everyone, I'm new to this thread and I'll be playing this deck for the first time in a couple of days.

I had a question, and I'm really sorry if anyone already posted about this in the past: Pithing Needle is a staple in this deck, mainly because Wastelands being so good against it. What do you guys think about Encroach as additional protection?

http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=15175&type=card

[Negator77']

Hi everyone, I'm new to this thread and I'll be playing this deck for the first time in a couple of days.

I had a question, and I'm really sorry if anyone already posted about this in the past: Pithing Needle is a staple in this deck, mainly because Wastelands being so good against it. What do you guys think about Encroach as additional protection?

http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=15175&type=card

I looked long and hard at this card a couple of times. One issue is that in the toughest Wasteland match-ups(where additional help would be welcome), they have diversified answers... Like against Dnt where this hits Waste and Karakas, but misses Flickerwisp, Plow, Path, etc. Against lands, its hits problem lands, but they also have eight tutors and Loam to deal with on top of that. There will be games where you straight up mana or color screw an opponent or snag a wasteland, but that isn't really our game plan or something that will ever happen with consistency. Overall I think the card comes up short because it's a terrible topdeck in most spots and is just really narrow in general.

[Fuzzy]

Played this deck in two tournaments this weekend at GP São Paulo. A small one (10 players), where I went 3-1 losing to Dragon Stompy, and another with 50+ players where I finished 4-2, but in the end I lose to a topdecked Diabolic Edict from Grixis Delver and a hard matchup against Jeskai Stoneblade (A great friend of mine, who ended winning the whole thing).

As a former Lands player, I still don't know how I feel about this deck, maybe because my lack of practice. I'll post my decklist tomorrow since it's some sort different from anything you guys play.

[caseyc]

Hey All-- just won my second bye for EW...so I suppose I should go :-) I played a relatively stock BG Turbo Depths list with a Rite of Consumption + Boseiju SB plan. http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=16546&f=LE 16 man EW trial, 4 rounds cut to top 8.

Round 1: Lands 2-0 Rite is great here.

Round 2: Dredge 2-1 This is the only game I drop--which was kinda a mistake of judgement. Overall, we have what it takes to make this a pretty good matchup. He boarded in 4x Natures claim which was odd but great against my grafdigger's cage I had t1 both games 2 and 3.

Round 3: Grixis Delver 2-0 He made a couple mistakes but I had good, redundant hands.

Round 4: ID with my DnT friend

Top 8: Czech Pile 2-0 Weird build with no Jace, Wasteland, or Edict so he didn't have much interaction.

Top 4: Lands 2-0. I won game 2 with a ESG and Hexmage beat down--final blow was dealt by Rite of Consumption sacking my Hexmage :-) That was a first.

Finals: Mentor-heavy Miracles w/ Daze 2-0. Game 1 I just was lucky he didn't have StP for my fast ML. Game 2 I assembled Boseiju + Rite and got him.

Overall, happy about how the deck performed. The new mentor-focused miracles build is pretty good but has less interaction with us. A better clock, however. I really love playing against Lands--and Rite makes it a pretty decent matchup post board. Looking forward to EW :-)

[solnox]

How do you guys board vs lands?

I typically board out nearly all the discard spells as they're usually bad but thinking about it, Crop Rotation is so huge in the matchup that keeping them in might be important.

[DNSolver]

Discard on the play can be necessary and helpful against Lands, taking Exploration or Gamble on turn 1. Postboard our best interaction against most of their deck is Pithing Needle on the things that make our strategy embarrassing, so being able to take Krosan Grip with discard is ok too. Rarely will it completely miss, and late game it can be saved to check for a Crop Rotation.