Dig Through Tide (Spring Tide 2014)

[Piceli89]

Note to the mods:
I know there are already 2 active threads open for High Tide variants but this differs significantly in card choices and gameplan so I would like it to stay open as soon as no one shits it out with spam. Thanks.

Playing High Tide in Legacy these days has become even more difficult than it was 3-4 months ago due to the advent of the delve cards in KtK, which have prompted the metagame to adjust by maindecking Pyroblast in various URx flavours. For a deck centered pretty heavily around one (blue) card this is very bad news.

On another hand, though, this change may be interesting as Dig Through Time is a very powerful spell netting both CA and a huge range of selection, all at the cost of two mana (even scalable if needed). It screams potential with the cheap suite of cantrips already being the core of Tide decks and may provide further resilience in the face of disruption, as well as increased chances of finding proper answers post-board- think about Wipe Away against Counterbalance for an example.

The price to pay, however, is steep: Time Spiral can't work along with a spell that exiles resources thus it's either one or the other. You wouldn't want to delve away High Tides or untappers.

The other shell where DTT may find a home, in the process of being tested these days, is Solidarity.
However, the deck is known to have major restrictions in being forced to play instants only, resulting in a very limited capability of setting up its combo at a reasonable pace for the format mainly because of the lack of Ponder and Preordain. This is not to detract anything from the beauty of it, but it's difficult to defend Opt and Impulse as legit cards in 2014.


What I am going to propose, therefore, is a different build aimed to maximize the inclusion of DTT, based neither on Reset nor on Spiral.
We have to look back at the (very) old days of Spring Tide (original thread here (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?2594-Deck-Spring-Tide&highlight=spring+tide)), which was the former sorcery-speed variant of choice.
The deck was centered around the Cloud of Faeries+Snap sinergy and it could kill on turn three if undisrupted- which is on average a turn before most Spiral Tide variants- by packing Ideas Unbound alongside 3-4 Meditates with the usual suspects to generate fast sequences of untapping, tapping and drawing a bunch of cards to access the lethal Brain Freeze. It was a good deck but slightly gamble-ish and eventually it was obsoleted by the upside(s) of having a card that both fulfilled the role of untapper and draw-7, which skyrocketed its consistency.

Where should we head towards then and why should we undo the progresses done so far?
I'll start things off with a rough list to show what I mean.

Dig Through Tide 2k14

4 Brainstorm
4 Preordain
4 Ponder
1 Meditate

4 High Tide
4 Cloud of Faeries
3 Snap
2 Turnabout

4 Force of Will
2 Flusterstorm
1 Pact of Negation (or 3 Pacts, still figuring out)

4 Merchant Scroll
4 Dig Through Time
3 Cunning Wish

4 Flooded Strand
4 Scalding Tarn
8 Island

SB: 3 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 2 Wipe Away
SB: 1 Pact of Negation
SB: 1 Echoing Truth
SB: 1 Hydroblast
SB: 1 Snap
SB: 1 Meditate
SB: 1 Turnabout
SB: 1 Rebuild
SB: 1 Brain Freeze
SB: 1 Blue Sun's Zenith
SB: 1 Twincast


These are the reasons I'm advocating this list to be a substantial improvement over what's avaiable now.

1.
Maindeck Snap. This metagame is defined by, amongst the others:
- Delver
- Stoneforge
- Swiftspear
- Germ token
- (Hatebears)

These all get hit bad by Snap, in terms of tempo.
One may argue that it is card disadvantage and it is a bad move, but the point is that the deck's already fit to abuse Snap as a combo engine; it being a (free) bounce spell against some of the most popular creature threats is a huge side bonus which comes handy.
What I always found out when playing the other variants is that they struggle to the known formula of fast clock+ cheap disruption; Snap may put a hamper on this plan without the need to warp the structure of the deck.

Also, Dig helps in making up for the loss of cards and it strenghtens Force of Will the same way Treasure Cruise does- one feeds each other in a loop.

Snap is already being played in Solidarity with Snapcaster Mage but I believe it is better in conjunction with Cloud and, as I specified, the problem of that deck lies somewhere else.

2.
Time Spiral has become too slow. There are people still putting up (few) results with it but a deck that is based on resolving a six mana spell has a difficult life in Legacy, especially considering that the rest features a non-negligible number of 3cc (Wish, at least 1 Meditate, 1 Intuition) and 4cc. Putting all baskets on such high-costed untappers may be a risky proposition in a format laden with ultra-cheap disruption and threats. UR Delver is so fast that it defines the pace of the format and makes non-winning 3cc+ spells often too heavy. I think this is the reason why ritual-based decks and Show and Tell-based ones are overall preferred choices.

3.
Dig Through Time is a better Ideas Unbound while comboing and/or a double Impulse while setting up. This allows to grab High Tide+untapper, High Tide+ draw spell, double cantrip, double protection, a mix of these. When going off the deck is able to fill its graveyard again at blistering speed with the cc1 cantrips and Dig doesn't give the opponent another shot of stopping you like Spiral does.

I'll go deeper and say that it a better card to have in hand than Time Spiral because Spiral sucks before going off.

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Some tips/synergies:

You can pretend to combo off and Snap a creature of your opponent, so if they Bolt/Plow it in response to stop your chain they get cut off their clock. Useful in desperate scenarios.

Cloud of Faeries is a very flexible card as the cycle can be relevant (even after a Snap) to fuel mana, bin a card for Dig and work in conjunction with cantrips. It can also be used with Brainstorm to sandbag a Force of Will from ANT's discard spells.

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In a nutshell, Dig allows to lower the curve, which in turn enables going off on turn 3 in non-interactive matchups while still keeping the structure consistent and being able to recover well in grindy matchups. Scroll, Dig and Wish give the deck an unparalled capability of filtering cards at the right times.

I'm far from claiming that this is the next big thing and that it is crystal-clear better than the other variants, but my feeling about the format nowadays is that you have to push things a bit further in terms of speed to keep up with it.
Having 2-mana untappers helps mitigating Daze, Flusterstorm and indirectly Pyroblast because you are saving mana to fire another untapper or to pay for it/get around it. Turnabouts are still there for midrange/control decks (Miracle) and to not rely on a creature to get the combo going when creature removal can't be beaten.

Earlier tests seem to confirm that Dig is really, really good. The best thing is that the deck isn't that much reliant on it and doesn't get hurt deadly if "hard" graveyard hate like RIP is brought post-board; conversely soft hate like Relic and Deathrite is doable by powering small bursts of cheap cards in a single turn.

-----

I'll keep on refining this and I hope this may prompt constructive discussion; please test the deck a bit before dismissing it- I think there is still room for improvement.

[feline]

Ok this is awesome, I have actually thought in the back of my mind "What of the best of Dig through Time and High Tide, but without the draw 7 the opponent gets from Spiral, or the opponents turn only with Reset."

Thank you for posting this! Brainstorming/discussion/testing/etc anything with High Tides is always awesome!

[eriktyvollk]

I still like candelabra over creatures. Creatures open you up to creature removal as interaction the deck prefers to play by itself as much as possible.

[Piceli89]

I still like candelabra over creatures. Creatures open you up to creature removal as interaction the deck prefers to play by itself as much as possible.

Candelabra doesn't block, cantrip, pitch to Force. It is also as Stifle-able and doesn't create added value with Snap- if you are losing the Clouds than you might just lose the Snaps as well because those alone aren't justifiable maindeck and at that point you're back to playing Spiral Tide which I already explained my concerns about. Everything is there for a reason as you can see.

You're right though that Cloud+Snap opens the combo to removal. While this is bypassable with tight play when suspecting Bolt/Plow (or with counterspells) it might still get us from time to time. That is the reason why the original incarnation ran Gitaxian Probe replacing Ponder- hand information is crucial for every successful combo decks and even moreso for this particular issue.

In the end I preferred Ponder's power but I don't exclude getting to a halfway configuration or even going back to four Probes, even at the cost of giving up on card selection (already largely provided by the beastly efficiency of everything else, perhaps the only risk is weakening one-land hands).
Lifeloss with fetches and Fows may then become a real thing but it's ridiculously good to know when it's safe to Dig properly, which Merchant Scroll target is exact for the situation without being left guessing, which disruption I have to go through while comboing... Exact information is a real avenue to win games.

@Feline: you're welcome. Hope this can be helpful.

[Spam]

Hello there, I've just joined this forum from Italy, so please forgive my poor grammar.
Anyway, this list looks promising and I'll definitely give it a try. However, wouldn't make sense to include 2 snapcaster mage just to flashback the first hig tide?

[Piceli89]

Hello there, I've just joined this forum from Italy, so please forgive my poor grammar.
Anyway, this list looks promising and I'll definitely give it a try. However, wouldn't make sense to include 2 snapcaster mage just to flashback the first hig tide?

Ciao, I'm Italian as well.
Snapcaster Mage doesn't make the cut in my book because it conflicts with Snap and I'd rather leave things clean and not have two cards fight for the same resources. SCM would also make Delver way more difficult because you wouldn't know which cards to keep in the graveyard in case you drew the Mage afterwards.

Him virtually costing 3 or more is another reason. I'm trying to keep individual costs as low as possible to ensure the possibility of fast-comboing as I underlined how Spiral Tide's lack of success lately comes from having too many expensive spells in a format that is lowering its curve more and more these days (just as an example of this, everyone but Miracle is eschewing Jace because Cruise is functionally the same but way cheaper). I'm trying to fit High Tide into the trend.

[Fatal]

I'm almost sure from experience that you will need more Meditates to refill hand, DTT is nice but you will cast it 1-2 not more.

[Piceli89]

I'm almost sure from experience that you will need more Meditates to refill hand, DTT is nice but you will cast it 1-2 not more.

I'm almost sure that once this deck starts going off chaining 4 Dig Through Times becomes a formality, especially with Merchant Scroll as Digs #5-8.

I thought about adding the second Meditate but eventually opted to fill that slot with something else because Meditate is a risky angle of chaining draws (chances of fizzling are always non-zero) and I'd prefer to keep that to a minimum.

The deck digs (lol) enough to be fine with a singleton Meditate. Brainstorm, Ponder and Preordain with Cloud of Faeries and Merchant ensure that every piece you're looking for is easily accessable by paying one to two mana while comboing, instead of three. This becomes evident while piloting the deck.

Also, Meditate's secondary use of giving up a turn for a +3 has become a rarity these days because the average clock has increased (Deathrite Shaman, Swiftspear), with the only exception being Miracle (keep in mind you are giving them another drawstep to draw/Top into Counterbalance and post-b Flusterstorm/Pyroblast though).

I'd say that Dig is better even in the grinds; Dig paid four mana to select two cards is still often better than drawing four blind cards, especially when you are looking for a specific piece to go off. Other times quantity may matter (mainly to convert those with Brainstorm into new gas) but these scenarios are usually a minority in a deck focused on finding some cards.

I'm not denying the possibility of going back to two anytime in the future but as for now its weight is being pulled fine by the rest.

[claudio.r]

I've been toying with Spring Tide since I saw Felines deck tech on Sunday. Good old times!

I know that we're trying to reduce costs as much as we can in this deck, but one card that as been shining on recent tests has been Palinchron (new old tech), since I'm playing 4 Digs it's pretty easy to find, and will end the game on the spot.

The problem... it's a creature and turns removal on, so it's that effective when the opponent is already expecting it.

What do you guys think?

[Charon]

Time spiral is too slow?

Really though, how often are you resolving dig through time before turn 4? (combo turn for spiral tide)

[Piceli89]

Time spiral is too slow?

Really though, how often are you resolving dig through time before turn 4? (combo turn for spiral tide)

As I already explained in detail, Time Spiral costing six makes Spiral Tide a turn four combo deck on average, except for those hands with Candelabra.
To provide another argument, the dominant tempo-esque deck of the format is currently UR Delver whereas it used to be Canadian Threshold at the time of ST's peak (2010-2012). If we compare the two in terms of clock and disruption we'll find out that:

- UR Delver has a faster race than Threshold mainly because Swiftspear deals a lot more damage than Mongoose in the first four turns. Also, the former is going heavier on burn spells which is often worse than those being blue disruption depending on how fast is ST capable of assembling a hand with enough permission (High Tide, Spiral, a couple between FoW and Fstorm/PoN with four lands or three with Turnabout, which is more risky).

- UR Delver has less permission pieces but is often maindecking Pyroblasts which are a hard-counter. I know some are moving away from Dazes and that's good news but we have to see which configuration will settle in the end to do proper evaluation.

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The point about Dig Through Time is that it is both an enabler and a proper combo piece.

It's not a matter of "how reliably can you cast it before turn four"- which by the way is perfectly doable with a couple of cantrips and two fetchlands.
It's the fact that you can cast it at every point of the game and it provides the reach for the right cards in almost any scenario (or more cantrips to dig into those if any) whereas Time Spiral is a total brick until you have assembled High Tide and are ready to go.

Once you are going off, chaining multiple Digs becomes very easy because each of your cards finds another or generates an amount of mana superior of the one paid for it. Cantrips are one-mana-per-card ratio, Snap and Cloud only cost two (although Cloud doesn't reach the bin). Turnabout is an exception in that it requires more mana but it is a necessity and offers alternative uses. If you grasp this you will understand how filling the graveyard with multiples of six doesn't sound difficult.

Trying the deck is dearly recommended.
Even if it was to not show itself as consistently better than Spiral Tide after, perhaps the thread would be still useful in underlining some of High Tide's flaws in today's metagake and hopefully trigger some tweaks (Cloud of Faeries is always dismissed yet a crucial piece in enabling faster kills, for example).