[Article]Eternal Europe: About that GP in New Jersey...

[Mon,Goblin Chief]

Sorry about missing out last week, you should get two articles throughout this week to compensate - I hope that's fine with y'all :) No 1 - my GP NJ impressions:

http://www.starcitygames.com/article/29791_About-That-Grand-Prix-New-Jersey.html

PS: excuse my being so silent concerning the responses lately, irl can be a bitch at times. :/

[Ellomdian]

Thanks for restating what I've been saying in the comments of every single recap article from someone who said UR Delver was the Best Deck - especially in an 'official' SCG article. The amount of reverb in that particular venue is outclassed only by the echos in the actual hall they played Magic in...

Also very excited at the prospect of non-Miracles 'Control' being a thing - that deck is good, but it is awful to watch, and even worse to play against.

[force_of_phil]

20% of the day 2 meta is pretty huge for legacy. Even if UR was 20-25% of the meta at the start of the tournament, that's still quite good considering all the electrickerys, hydroblasts, cop: reds, and kor firewalkers that everyone was packing to hate it out. I thought it would have a much steeper drop off from day 1.

[ivanpei]

Format seems fine now. Plenty of innovation. Hope there won't be any funny ban hammer business for Treasure Cruise. It's really not that oppressive. It's just "good". I sure hope they unban survival instead so legacy can remain the broken stuff format. Keep the ban hammer for modern lol.

[Darkenslight]

Yep. TC is broken, but not Bah-roken. I'd love to see some unbannings now, but thanks for the interesting take.

[Cire]

Would it be correct to think of the TC shell explored by Eli Kassis, Brian Braun-Duin, and the various UR delve shells, as the following

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Treasure Cruise
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Force of Will
4 Lighting Bolt

9-10 Fetchlands
1-2 basiclands
6-7 Dual Lands

4-6 Creatures
5-6 1 mana spells
1-6 Flex spots

I can see how the shell can be used for White (Stoneblade) and Black (Discard), but I am wondering if you can use this shell for a Temur deck?

[Ellomdian]

20% of the day 2 meta is pretty huge for legacy. Even if UR was 20-25% of the meta at the start of the tournament, that's still quite good considering all the electrickerys, hydroblasts, cop: reds, and kor firewalkers that everyone was packing to hate it out. I thought it would have a much steeper drop off from day 1.

Most of the discussion pegs it closer to 30% of D1, in various forms. And your discussion about surviving the hate discounts the natural benefit of trouncing fun/pet decks.

Regardless, Treasure Cruise is TNN is SnT is Counterbalance... Same color, different day :cool:

[Star|Scream]

Would it be correct to think of the TC shell explored by Eli Kassis, Brian Braun-Duin, and the various UR delve shells, as the following

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Treasure Cruise
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Force of Will
4 Lighting Bolt

9-10 Fetchlands
1-2 basiclands
6-7 Dual Lands

4-6 Creatures
5-6 1 mana spells
1-6 Flex spots

I can see how the shell can be used for White (Stoneblade) and Black (Discard), but I am wondering if you can use this shell for a Temur deck?

Yes, but what does green give you besides goyf and grip? How is that better than free tokens via hand disruption (Therapy) or the card advantage/walls of sfm/batterskull/tnn + the absolute removal of stp

[force_of_phil]

Most of the discussion pegs it closer to 30% of D1, in various forms. And your discussion about surviving the hate discounts the natural benefit of trouncing fun/pet decks.

Regardless, Treasure Cruise is TNN is SnT is Counterbalance... Same color, different day :cool:

30% seems really high, but I haven't seen any data so who knows? But yes, it's not the end of the world. The deck is linear enough that the best players can find ways to beat it.

[Richard Cheese]

Yes, but what does green give you besides goyf and grip? How is that better than free tokens via hand disruption (Therapy) or the card advantage/walls of sfm/batterskull/tnn + the absolute removal of stp

Grove + Sideboard options

[Star|Scream]

Grove + Sideboard options

I suppose the dis-synergy with punishing fire and delve isn't terrible, but is it more effective than sfm? Also what sideboard options besides grip and grudge?

EDIT:

Also groves can't cast any of your blue spells.

[Richard Cheese]

I suppose the dis-synergy with punishing fire and delve isn't terrible, but is it more effective than sfm? Also what sideboard options besides grip and grudge?

EDIT:

Also groves can't cast any of your blue spells.

I don't know, but it's real good with Pyromancer and Swiftspear. I just want a deck that runs Groves and Caverns, is that too much to ask?!?!

Edit: and Brainstorm and Treasure Cruise!

[FoolofaTook]

I don't know, but it's real good with Pyromancer and Swiftspear. I just want a deck that runs Groves and Caverns, is that too much to ask?!?!

Edit: and Brainstorm and Treasure Cruise!

Blue shell Zoo minus the all the counters except Force of Will might be really good.

4x Brainstorm
4x Ponder
4x Gitaxian Probe
4x Treasure Cruise
4x Force of Will

4x Goblin Guide
4x Monastery Swiftspear
4x Young Pyromancer
3x Shardless Agent

4x Lightning Bolt
3x Punishing Fire

4x Scalding Tarn
4x Misty Rainforest
1x Wooded Foothills
4x Volcanic Island
2x Tropical Island
3x Grove of the Burnwillows

[Finn]

Agent looks weak in that.

[FoolofaTook]

Agent looks weak in that.

Probably the weakest card in the list but also probably better than Tarmogoyf or one of the 3cc :u::u: creatures like Vendilion Clique or True-Name Nemesis. Agent does give you the opportunity to cast direct damage off of the top of the pile and he does give you 8 shots at a haste creature. He might be decent in that scenario since I think that list will be doing a lot of early damage and looking to finish things off by the time he arrives.

There are 27 instants/sorceries in the list. Maybe go 4 Delver of Secrets and 3 Goblin Guides?

[btm10]

You're basically just playing clunkier UR Delver at this point.

[Richard Cheese]

You're basically just playing clunkier UR Delver at this point.

Except that if you run Delver over Shardless and find something to replace Guide (maybe 2x Snap, 2x something else?), you can run Cavern and give Miracles all the headaches!

Edit: Other interesting Humans on color:

Lavamancer (probably too much of a nonbo with Cruise, not necessary with PFire)
Rattleclaw Mystic (not sure if necessary)
Veteran Explorer (but why?!)
Surrak Dragonclaw, Puncher of Bears, Wearer of Aforementioned Bears
Noble Hierarch
Varchild's Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar Raiders!
Burning-Tree Emissary

[Cire]

Yes, but what does green give you besides goyf and grip? How is that better than free tokens via hand disruption (Therapy) or the card advantage/walls of sfm/batterskull/tnn + the absolute removal of stp

No clue honestly, It's just that once we have this shell I want to see what we can put into that shell. Absolutely none of my ideas so far are probably good, but I really want to throw in green, a combo, or a tribe, and see what sticks

[FoolofaTook]

Except that if you run Delver over Shardless and find something to replace Guide (maybe 2x Snap, 2x something else?), you can run Cavern and give Miracles all the headaches!

Edit: Other interesting Humans on color:

Lavamancer (probably too much of a nonbo with Cruise, not necessary with PFire)
Rattleclaw Mystic (not sure if necessary)
Veteran Explorer (but why?!)
Surrak Dragonclaw, Puncher of Bears, Wearer of Aforementioned Bears
Noble Hierarch
Varchild's Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar Raiders!
Burning-Tree Emissary

I think you're right, Snapcaster is the way to go. So 4x Monastery Swiftspear, 4x Delver of Secrets, 4 Young Pyromancer and 3x Snapcaster Mage?

Manabase would have to be 4x Scalding Tarn, 3x Misty Rainforest, 2x Wooded Foothills, 4x Volcanic Island, 1x Island, 1x Mountain, 3x Grove of the Burnwillows and 2x Cavern of Souls in the SB for when it would really piss somebody like Miracles, Phamstill or another Delver list off.

[Mon,Goblin Chief]

Happy you guys liked the article :)

@Cire: That seems like the best Treasure Cruise shell so far, I agree.

@20% Delver: Given the hype before the GP and the quality of players behind the deck, 20% seems utterly reasonable (especially given that I expect there to have been more of it on D1 as a result of the hype - meaning the deck would have actually underperformed compared to the field both in d2 conversion and t16 conversion)

@Decklist: PFire is insane right now, definitely a direction to look at moving forward. As to RUG colored lists, there is also the reasonably successful modernized version of RUG to consider (basically RUG minus Mongoose and flex slots plus YP and Cruise). Also I agree that Agent looks terrible in that list.

@Banning: With the format as is, I don't think anything needs to be banned. I still feel like the delve cards might become problematic on power-level alone in the future if we find the ideal shells to abuse them in, but that's for then to worry about.

[Cire]

What do you think of Brian Braun-Duin's list replacing TNN with Monastery Mentor? It seems like TNN is no longer the best 3 drop. Monastery Mentor is just YP on steroids :rolleyes: