trinisphere and omniscience

[KobeBryan]

What is the rule on this. Which one supersedes

[nestle_19]

Tri(well,except convoke and delve) always win. So , you still have to pay three even though Omniscience makes everything free.

[HugSeal]

What is the rule on this. Which one supersedes

Omniscience is an alternate cost. The Trinisphere adds to that cost since it's <3.

Looking at the card on the gatherer page is a good start which in this case answers your question fully.

http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=43545

"Even with a cost reducer on the battlefield, spells can't cost less than three mana to cast."

[death]

Follow this golden rule:
Cost/alternate cost + additional costs - cost reductions + Trinishpere's effect = final cost

You will have to pay at least 3, color of mana doesn't matter, for every spell you cast from your hand with Omniscience while Trinisphere is in play and untapped. As a reminder, with Omniscience you cannot play cards with flasback costs and cards that can be played from the graveyard for free without paying their respective costs since Omniscience applies only to cards played from your hand.

Convoke and Delve do not alter the cost of the spell and Trinisphere's effect is applied before you use the delve ability to exile cards instead of paying for generic mana. So Treasure Cruise and Dig Through Time can be payed with U and UU using their delve ability under Trinisphere.

Trinisphere also has no effect on the Transmute ability of a card since you do not actually cast the spell.

[cdr]

Follow this golden rule:
Cost/alternate cost + additional costs - cost reductions + Trinishpere's effect = final cost


"Final cost" (technical term is total cost) is what Trinisphere affects, and why it affects anything that isn't mana abilities (or things that are used at the same time as mana abilities - delve, convoke). It checks whether the total cost is at least 3 mana, and if it isn't, makes it 3 mana.

[cdr]

You seem to be implying that delve and convoke happens before trinisphere's effect, which is not the case since the changes to delve/convoke

I said the opposite, actually.

[Tammit67]

I said the opposite, actually.

My apologies, I've parsed your sentence incorrectly :frown:

[cdr]

My apologies, I've parsed your sentence incorrectly :frown:

NP, I tried to clarify the sentence a little.

[shawntown]

Ok, so I cast S&T and put Omniscience into play; my opponent puts Trinisphere in play. Now, I want to cast Dig Through Time. If I'm reading all this right, Omni reduces the cost to zero, then Trinisphere says no, it costs 3. THEN, I delve 3 cards from my graveyard to pay for Dig, and so it goes on the stack. Is that correct?

[iamajellydonut]

Ok, so I cast S&T and put Omniscience into play; my opponent puts Trinisphere in play. Now, I want to cast Dig Through Time. If I'm reading all this right, Omni reduces the cost to zero, then Trinisphere says no, it costs 3. THEN, I delve 3 cards from my graveyard to pay for Dig, and so it goes on the stack. Is that correct?

That is correct as Delve was changed to be a method of payment for the spell.

[cdr]

THEN, pay 3 generic mana. OR, delve (6)+UU.

Delve ability or exiling a card from the grave pays for 1 generic mana at the time you pay the spell's cost. You do this after Trinisphere's effect on alternate cost/cost reductions are applied. Delving at this point means you are committing to pay the spell's cost, in this case 6UU. The option to pay 3 generic mana under Trinisphere is available following the golden rule:

As has been noted in this thread, delve (and convoke) are now payments rather than cost reducers. Payments happen after total cost is determined, which is where Trinisphere sets total cost. Even if delve/convoke worked like they used to, you would still be incorrect. Alternate cost is chosen way up front, and Trinisphere is at the very end of cost determination - you never pay anything but what Trinisphere tells you to pay. And delve/convoke were not even alternate costs, they were cost reducers.