[Article]Eternal Europe: Getting Back Into Vintage

[Mon,Goblin Chief]

Well, it looks like I (finally) get to spread my focus over two formats again in the months to come:

http://www.starcitygames.com/article/29975_Getting-Back-Into-Vintage.html

Enjoy and happy holidays!

[Tammit67]

Here in the PA-NJ-DE section of the east coast of the US, shops are like 30% of any given event. I don't know how people can justify this deck in the field of shops I'm experiencing so until that changes I can't play sweet decks like these.

What's the meta look like over there that a list such as this is more than reasonable?

[Koby]

I read the article and agree with the process. It should be noted that Carsten considers the metagame to be composed of players who want to play Vintage for Vintage's sake, rather than play Vintage to compete. With this in mind, you're basically up against a mono-Big Blue metagame devoid of Workshop or Dredge.

I think realistically, the deck needs a maindeck Ancient Grudge, a second Island, and definitely Ingot Chewers+basic Mountain in the SB to combat Workshop decks. There is a fine line to walk between making the maindeck Mental Missteps good vs expected Blue field and an expected Workshop field.

3 Missteps is usually where I bridge that line, with the expectation that I will play one Workshop deck for every 4-5 rounds, or one event. If that expectation is a higher concentration, the deck needs to be tailored for that.

[Lemnear]

I've toyed quite a lot with Gush after the unrestriction of Regrowth in May 2013 and I don't see a reason to run DTT if you can chain Ancestral Recalls, Discard, Gushes, exhume destroyed Fastbonds, casting Multi-Tendrils instead with 4 Regrowth in the deck, basically acting as a green Merchant Scroll.

[btm10]

Here in the PA-NJ-DE section of the east coast of the US, shops are like 30% of any given event. I don't know how people can justify this deck in the field of shops I'm experiencing so until that changes I can't play sweet decks like these.

What's the meta look like over there that a list such as this is more than reasonable?

The Shops penetration hasn't been as high as I would've expected in Ohio recently, at least with tbe little Vintage I've found time to play. I played the Oath mirror twice in my last event, so something along these lines might work well if it stays that way.

[Lemnear]

The Shops penetration hasn't been as high as I would've expected in Ohio recently, at least with tbe little Vintage I've found time to play. I played the Oath mirror twice in my last event, so something along these lines might work well if it stays that way.

Every time I think that way, I browse for DeMars' vs. Workshop articles to recall why I quitted in the first place.

[Tammit67]

The Shops penetration hasn't been as high as I would've expected in Ohio recently, at least with tbe little Vintage I've found time to play. I played the Oath mirror twice in my last event, so something along these lines might work well if it stays that way.

Meanwhile I top 8'd a 40 man and played shops in rounds 1, 3, 4, 5... and first round of top 8 (same player as round 1 who won the event).


It should be noted that Carsten considers the metagame to be composed of players who want to play Vintage for Vintage's sake, rather than play Vintage to compete. With this in mind, you're basically up against a mono-Big Blue metagame devoid of Workshop or Dredge.

How is that useful then? What metagame can safely ignore the two of the best (if not THE best) lands lands in the format and the decks they spawn?

[Koby]

How is that useful then? What metagame can safely ignore the two of the best (if not THE best) lands lands in the format and the decks they spawn?

Looking at Europe, I see:
Milan, IT - 18 participants (http://morphling.de/top8decks.php?id=1992) - 0 Dredge 0 Workshop decks in T4
Senigallia, IT - 16 participants (http://morphling.de/top8decks.php?id=1991) - 0 Dredge 0 Workshop decks in T4
Zurich, CH - unknown size (http://morphling.de/top8decks.php?id=1990) - 1 Dredge 1 Workshop deck in T8
Prague, CZ - 35 participants (http://morphling.de/top8decks.php?id=1987) - 0 Dredge 1 Workshop decks in T8

And this is just the Europe events on the front page at Morphling.de. I don't think it's a stretch that Carsten took this mentality for his article. It is representative for every meta? No, that would be too easy. I still think his approach is the important aspect and being able to recognize what you need to prepare for is the goal.

[Tammit67]

Looking at Europe, I see:
Milan, IT - 18 participants (http://morphling.de/top8decks.php?id=1992) - 0 Dredge 0 Workshop decks in T4
Senigallia, IT - 16 participants (http://morphling.de/top8decks.php?id=1991) - 0 Dredge 0 Workshop decks in T4
Zurich, CH - unknown size (http://morphling.de/top8decks.php?id=1990) - 1 Dredge 1 Workshop deck in T8
Prague, CZ - 35 participants (http://morphling.de/top8decks.php?id=1987) - 0 Dredge 1 Workshop decks in T8

And this is just the Europe events on the front page at Morphling.de. I don't think it's a stretch that Carsten took this mentality for his article. It is representative for every meta? No, that would be too easy. I still think his approach is the important aspect and being able to recognize what you need to prepare for is the goal.

Meanwhile in NJ, USA... (http://morphling.de/top8decks.php?id=1994) or the live events from the past 6 months (http://www.mtgtop8.com/format?f=VI&meta=83)

Am I just way off base?

[btm10]

Meanwhile I top 8'd a 40 man and played shops in rounds 1, 3, 4, 5... and first round of top 8 (same player as round 1 who won the event).



How is that useful then? What metagame can safely ignore the two of the best (if not THE best) lands lands in the format and the decks they spawn?


Meanwhile in NJ, USA... (http://morphling.de/top8decks.php?id=1994) or the live events from the past 6 months (http://www.mtgtop8.com/format?f=VI&meta=83)

Am I just way off base?

I think you're right in an open meta. If you have a rough idea of the room you're walking into, it's possible (and reasonable) to metagame against the expected room rather than the global Vintage metagame.

[phazonmutant]

Meanwhile in NJ, USA... (http://morphling.de/top8decks.php?id=1994) or the live events from the past 6 months (http://www.mtgtop8.com/format?f=VI&meta=83)

Am I just way off base?

I suspect sanctioned tournaments are quite different from unsanctioned. Most people who have a passing interest in Vintage want to play broken blue stuff (and most enthusiasts too!), but there's a whole group of dedicated acolytes of Mishra. Dredge doesn't seem to get as many people passionate about it, but it's a fairly cheap entry point for sanctioned tournaments.

Definitely regional metas are a thing too. Building on what you said about the midwest/east coast, I saw a ton of Shops at Eternal Weekend (20% maybe?).

[Tammit67]

I suspect sanctioned tournaments are quite different from unsanctioned. Most people who have a passing interest in Vintage want to play broken blue stuff (and most enthusiasts too!), but there's a whole group of dedicated acolytes of Mishra. Dredge doesn't seem to get as many people passionate about it, but it's a fairly cheap entry point for sanctioned tournaments.

Definitely regional metas are a thing too. Building on what you said about the midwest/east coast, I saw a ton of Shops at Eternal Weekend (20% maybe?).

Anything from Haddon NJ is Top Deck Games running a 10 proxy event. I see your regional point though, maybe we just have infinite shops cultists

[amalek0]

Honestly, the decklists I'm seeing coming out of vintage tourneys, if for some reason I were forced to sleeve up for vintage tomorrow without proxies or other cards, I feel like I'd be on the 4x leyline, 4x helm, some enlightened tutors, chalices, and blue countermagic and cantrips, and just hope to lucksack people with obnoxious cards. In theory, playing enough real mana should be able to actually drop stuff through lock pieces and mainboard leylines hate enough on dredge...


Some day I'll graduate with my math degree, end up with a real job, and be able to finally start in on acquiring power for myself. Until then, I'll keep shooting myself in the foot with student loans, hating analysis classes, and looking forward to abstract algebra's. And playing every legacy event I can.