Dynam1c Du0 - UWR Tokens

[klaus]

So yeah, the idea is simple: play top notch spells and overwhelm your opponent with both C/A and scary tokens.
The list below should be quite straight forward, though some fine-tuning might be in place.
Let me know what you think!


The Dynamic Duo:
4 Monastery Mentor
4 Young Pyromancer

Stuff to boost them:
4 BS
4 Ponder
4 Probe
4 TC

Stuff to keep things in check:
4 FoW
4 Spell Pierce (not sure about this choice yet)
2 REB

4 Bolt
4 STP (three of each should do the trick actually)

(42)

Land:
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Flooded Strand
2 Arid Mesa
4 Volcanic Island
2 Tundra
1 Island
1 Plains

Sideboard:
2 Jace (sometimes dudes just won't get you there)
2 Wear/Tear
2 Jitte (I expect MM.dec to make up a relevant amount of the meta soon. Jitte shines here)
2 Forked Bolt (there has to be a better SB card VS Swarm.Aggro.dec)
2 Pyroblast
2 Flusterstorm
3 Faerie Macabre (as the deck can be super explosive, intermediate GY hate should be justifiable)

Stuff that didn't make the cut:
* SFM: looks nice on paper, but also slow - at the end of the day MM tokens make SFM obsolete, as 8 4/4ers don't need to carry weapons to smash face.
* DTT: 4 TC will eat your GY good, plus with the entire strategy boiling down to casting spells and make tokens, it doubly sucks to get spells stranded in your hand.
* Spell Snare: sweet spell, but "see DTT".
* Meddling Mage: Carsten suggested him in a recent SCG article. For me he clearly falls in the "danger of cool things" category. The main reason I opt for spells over this hate bear though: hate bears no maky tokens.
* Misdirection: sending your opponent's Bolt on their own MM means living the dream
* MD Jace: love this guy. If he sticks, Jace will deliver a never ending stream off spells --> tokens. The insane amount of MD REBs running around these really diminishes my love for him though --> SB.
* Sudden Shock: if we witness more TC+Powerful X/2 dudes.dec, I might be happy to give it a shock.. umm.. shot!

[Morte]

I'd seriously consider adding SDT + Counterbalance. The main weakness of mentor is being 3cc and very easy to remove, so T1 Top, T2 Counterbalance, T3 Monastery Mentor would be the ideal play. Also you need 3/4 mana to play smoothly, with only 18 lands you want as much library manipulation as you can. And, obviously, SDT grants you to always have fuel to generate tokens, especially if you have two in play.

Considering your list, I'd try

-4 Spell Pierce
-1 Probe
-1 Lightning Bolt
-1 STP (or maybe better -0 LB, -2 STP)

+4 Sensei's Diving Top
+3 Counterbalance

[Echelon]

How about a number of Flame Jabs and/or Lava Darts?

One of the biggest points being made about at least the Mentor is that your hand might be empty by the time it hits the field. In case of Jab, any surplus land is turned into tokens/removal and Lava Dart can be rather explosive when you have 2/3 tokens and prowess-dudes in play. A single Lava Dart can easily surmount up to 6 points (or 4 and kill off 1 or 2 blockers) of damage with only 2 prowess-dudes on the battlefield.

Think of something along these lines (working off your list):

Creatures:
4 Monastery Mentor
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Monastery Swiftspear

Spells:
4 BS
4 Ponder
4 Probe
3 TC

4 FoW
3 Flame Jab
4 Bolt
4 Lava Dart

Land:
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Flooded Strand
2 Arid Mesa
4 Volcanic Island
1 Tundra
1 Mountain
1 Island
1 Plains

[klaus]

Hi Echelon,

CB Top is an option for sure.

I don't really care about folks removing one of my creatures though, as all you need is one to stick and we have plenty of cantrips to find a guy if you need one.
No one adds CB to protect their guys except maybe Dreadnought.dec though.
Even if a guy gets removed, it's likely they'll have produced tokens in the meantime, leaving you with a bonus. Plus CB Top don't fuel TC, which is a major downside actually, as TC makes the deck tick at its very core.

That being said, I do agree that it deserves testing.

[Echelon]

Morte mentioned CB Top, not me... Lol

I was advocating a much more aggressive approach. Keep your opponents' board clear whilst expanding your own. Either that, or burn your opponents' face whilst expanding your board. A lot of fun either way.

[klaus]

Morte mentioned CB Top, not me... Lol

I was advocating a much more aggressive approach. Keep your opponents' board clear whilst expanding your own. Either that, or burn your opponents' face whilst expanding your board. A lot of fun either way.

Gotcha! :-D

Despite not running any mana disruption your aggressive approach might actually ask for Daze.
7 sac / discard land spells seem overkill though. Consider that you want to also chain spells actually requiring mana.

-3 Flame Jab +3 Daze should do the trick - though returning Volc to hand via Daze then discarding to Jab sounds like fun!

[death]

Dynam1c Tri0 - UWR Tokens

Creatures [12]
4 Monastery Mentor
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Young Pyromancer

Instants [18]
2 Pyroblast
2 Spell Pierce
3 Lightning Bolt
3 Swords to Plowshares
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will

Sorceries [12]
4 Ponder
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Treasure Cruise

Lands [18]
1 Island
1 Mountain
2 Arid Mesa
3 Tundra
3 Volcanic Island
4 Flooded Strand
4 Scalding Tarn

Yep MM + YP is too threat-light, you need a one drop. Also, since we are running W no reason not to skimp on removal like Swords to Plowshares.

[Echelon]

Also, since we are running W no reason not to skimp on removal like Swords to Plowshares.

Plows are incredibly counter-productive for an aggro-deck. That's why I suggested to add more burn. That can actually help you advance your gameplan rather then set you back. Plowing a creature with any power is more often then not just turning your opponents' creature into a Timewalk (for your opponent) whilst costing YOU a card as well.

How about this one:

Creatures:
4 Monastery Mentor
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Monastery Swiftspear

Spells:
4 BS
4 Ponder
4 Probe
3 TC

3 Daze
3 FoW
2 Flame Jab
4 Bolt
3 Lava Dart

Land:
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Flooded Strand
2 Arid Mesa
4 Volcanic Island
1 Tundra
1 Mountain
1 Island
1 Plains

Almost similar discard/sac-shenanigans whilst adding a number of extra counters. You could also opt to run the 7 discard/sac-cards and replace the FoWs in the previous list with Dazes, so you don't have to pitch any cards for it. That would leave more of your cantrips available to keep on drawing gas later in the game. Downside is that later in the game Daze sucks the big one. But hey, hopefully, by then you'll have a big enough board presence to get there anyway.

[death]

I agree, but discarding/sacrificing lands is not what you want/can afford to do most of the time against Stifle, Wastelands, Smallpox and Sinkhole. But we can always tune the removal/counter suite:

Instants [18]
2 Lava Darts
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
4 Force of Will

If you wanna stick with Daze also to get full value from Mentor then you can substitute 2 Pyro/2 Pierce from my list with 4 Dazes.

[Echelon]

Stifle and Wasteland are currently at an incredible low and I can't recall the last time I faced anything running Smallpox/Sinkhole.

Flame Jab might indeed be too cute though. Lava Dart has the upside of being able to fire twice for just 1 mana, which can be incredibly important in the late game. On the other hand, you won't be Retracing Flame Jab until the late game either, so there's that.

[death]

The bigger question is: Is Monastery Mentor better than turn 1 Delver of Secrets in the long run? Lol. I don't know, yet. I've only dabbled in control and combo. I find the aggro approach less challenging.

Those with experience piloting URw Delver can chime in. Are we finally seeing the end of Delver, SFM/TNN or Entreat era? Cause those are the slots that Mentor is replacing from what I've gathered.

[klaus]

The bigger question is: Is Monastery Mentor better than turn 1 Delver of Secrets in the long run? Lol. I don't know, yet. I've only dabbled in control and combo. I find the aggro approach less challenging.

Those with experience piloting URw Delver can chime in. Are we finally seeing the end of Delver, SFM/TNN or Entreat era? Cause those are the slots that Mentor is replacing from what I've gathered.

TBH i haven't managed to get sufficient testing in yet. I'm not sure wether comparing Delver and MM is the right way to approach this archetype as there are certain differences.
I would rather see MM replacing TNN.
That being said, Delver might indeed be the better choice for straight up Aggro version of this. MM makes ultimately it midrangy with the potential to seal the deal in a single turn.

[Darkenslight]

Honestly, I'd consider playing Dispel in this deck over the original Pierce, and Daze over that. Most of the major threats to your dudes are instant-based spot removal (Bolt, Plow). Sadly, it doens't do anything about AD though.

[klaus]

Honestly, I'd consider playing Dispel in this deck over the original Pierce, and Daze over that. Most of the major threats to your dudes are instant-based spot removal (Bolt, Plow). Sadly, it doens't do anything about AD though.

AD is at an all-time low ever since its release.
Dispel could be worth looking into, though I like the chance to counter: Treasure Cruise, Terminus, Hymn, tutors, Enchantments etc..
Just recalled: Not even Dreadnought.dec ran it :-)

[death]

Gave the deck a spin, here is my initial reaction. MS + YP are the MVP and MM is just VIP. Swiftspear + Pyromancer are what won most of the games, Mentor is just sauce. I've cut Mentor to 3 since he was clogging my hand mostly. My disruption package: 2 Daze + 2 Pierce. Dispel is just too narrow, it's not even close. You can do a Spell Pierce/Dispel split at least. I tested Forked Bolt, it was awesome.

Conclusion: 1) Delver is faster 2) needs Swords >3 toughness 3) needs Treasure Cruise. Without Treasure Cruise, Mentor will need to find another shell because past turn 4 you run low on gas to get value. Delver + Cruise is scarier.

[Mystical_Jackass]

What do you think about Aether Vial. You can use it to get around counters and be able to keep more available mana up, for instance Vial in a YP and have mana open for spells.

[death]

There is not much creatures in the deck to make use of Aether Vial and we can't afford to run more, beyond 11-12 we lose Prowess and MM + YP token-generating triggers. Rite of Flame seems alot better than Vial in that regard.

Deck relies on a steady stream of cantrips: BS > Ponder > Probe > TC. If a red blast cuts this off you lose steam. Dispel + Envelope might actually work, needs more testing.

[goblinsplayer]

As it stands, this deck is incredibly weak to sweepers like pyroclasm and electrickery. To solve that problem at least a little, since you're going for more of a midrange approach, why not run stoneforge mystic? It gives you more staying power and jitte or any sword is good with stray tokens.

[trollking21]

It seems that delver would be good in this deck, whenever I was thinking about brewing this deck I was thinking something like this for a creature base

4x delver
4x swift spear
4x young pyro
3x Monastary mentor
27x spells
18x land

While adding more creatures obviously cuts into instants and sorceries a bit, I think delver would be worth it, because he lowers the cost of your threats a little and is a beast on his own.

[klaus]

Initial testing indeed shows that 3 might be the correct number for MMs.

[Zupponn]

Like mentioned above, I really think that Flame Jab and/or Lava Dart should be included in some number here. I was experimenting with a Boros Prowess list a while back and Lava Dart was fantastic. Instead of counterspells, I had some Orim's Chants, but they both serve the same purpose. Either way, I like a lot of burn in decks like this.

[mgrinshpon]

Du0 is a bad name.

Now that the important stuff is out of the way, Monastery Mentor seems questionable in Legacy where cards like Mana Vault aren't available. Once Sensei's Divining Top hits the board, however, he's a house since the repeated top activations generate so many tokens. I can't imagine any less than 4 being correct as, provided I have a YP or a MM, I'm always happy to have 2.

[klaus]

Du0 is a bad name.

Now that the important stuff is out of the way, Monastery Mentor seems questionable in Legacy where cards like Mana Vault aren't available. Once Sensei's Divining Top hits the board, however, he's a house since the repeated top activations generate so many tokens. I can't imagine any less than 4 being correct as, provided I have a YP or a MM, I'm always happy to have 2.

Wow - that's quite an ambivalent post. "Questionable" + "he's a house" within the same paragraph and stuff..
Anyway - did you do some testing to back up your input?

Cheers.

[Echelon]

I can't imagine any less than 4 being correct as, provided I have a YP or a MM, I'm always happy to have 2.

Young Pyromancer is only triggered by instants and sorceries. He doesn't care about SDT. You should only be happy with your 2 tops when you have a MM on the battlefield (or a Swiftspear, obviously).

[Allcoin]

My current thoughts on a build are

CREATURES
Monastery monk x3
Young pyromancer x4
Delver of secrets x4 (or possibly Stoneforge mystic x3, and 4 monks)

SPELLS
Lightning boltx4
Swords to plowsharesx3(or possibly 4)
Daze x4
Force of willx4
Gitaxian probex3
Dig through time x2
4 brainstorm
4 ponder

EQUIPMENT
Umezawa's Jitte
Sword of fire and ice

LANDS
1 island
4 tundra
4 volcanic island
7x blue fetch
4x wasteland

[Allcoin]

CREATURES

Monastery monk x4

Young pyromancer x4

Stoneforge mystic x3



SPELLS

Lightning boltx4

Swords to plowsharesx3

Daze x3

Force of willx4

Gitaxian probex3

Dig through time x2

brainstorm x4

ponder x4



EQUIPMENT

Umezawa's Jitte x 1

Sword of fire and ice x1



LANDS

1 island

4 tundra

4 volcanic island

7x blue fetch

4x wasteland


This is the list I tested last night against d&t, The deck seemed to not want wasteland though, so I'm thinking that the fetches might matter, and to cut waste lands, make all the fetches on color and play 1 of each basic.

[grimskies]

Eli Kassis has a different approach to UWR tokens: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?29170-40-Duals-Philadelphia-(2-8)-Decklists

Decklist for reference:

// Eli Kassis – 5th
// Main Deck
2 Monastery Mentor
2 Swords to Plowshares
4 Force of Will
2 Lightning Bolt
2 Forked Bolt
4 Daze
4 Stifle
1 Spell Pierce
1 Pyroblast
4 Brainstorm
3 Dig Through Time
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Ponder
4 Young Pyromancer
3 Volcanic Island
3 Tundra
4 Wasteland
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
1 Island
// Sideboard
1 Flusterstorm
2 Pyroblast
2 Hydroblast
1 Grafdigger’s Cage
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Sudden Demise
1 Smash to Smithereens
1 Seal of Cleansing
1 Null Rod
1 Containment Priest
2 Meddling Mage


I played a few games with it, they were grindy but winnable. People do not expect Wasteland/Stifle/Daze from UWR deck.