UWR Monastery Mentor

[Phoenix Ignition]

Two decklists have emerged as contenders:

Choice 1: Monastery Swiftspear faster version


4x Delver of Secrets
4x Monastery Swiftspear
2x Young Pyromancer
2x Snapcaster Mage
4x Monastery Mentor

4x Gitaxian Probe
4x Lightning Bolt
3x Path to Exile
4x Serum Visions
4x Sleight of Hand
1x Vapor Snag
1x Repeal
4x Lightning Helix
1x Electrolyze

4x Scalding Tarn
4x Flooded Strand
3x Steam Vents
2x Hallowed fountain
1x Sacred Foundry
2x Island
1x Plains
1x Mountain

Sideboard:
3x Pithing Needle
3x Relic of Progenitus
2x Dispel
2x Negate
2x Counterflux
2x Stony Silence
1x Wear / Tear

Version 2: Young Pyromancer + more control

4x Delver of Secrets
4x Young Pyromancer
2x Snapcaster Mage
4x Monastery Mentor

4x Gitaxian Probe
4x Lightning Bolt
3x Path to Exile
4x Serum Visions
4x Sleight of Hand
1x Vapor Snag
1x Repeal
3x Lightning Helix
2x Electrolyze
2x Dispel

4x Scalding Tarn
4x Flooded Strand
3x Steam Vents
2x Hallowed fountain
1x Sacred Foundry
2x Island
1x Plains
1x Mountain

Sideboard (not refined):
1x Rest for the Weary
1x Lightning Helix
3x Relic of Progenitus
2x Negate
2x Counterflux
3x Stony Silence
2x Wear / Tear
1x Dispel

[Quizzlemanizzle]

Here's the list I've been playing with. It's flowing smoothly but no real results other than that. Extremely fun and can easily overrun people.


4x Delver of Secrets
4x Monastery Swiftspear
4x Young Pyromancer
4x Monastery Mentor

4x Gitaxian Probe
4x Lightning Bolt
3x Path to Exile
4x Serum Visions
4x Sleight of Hand
1x Vapor Snag
2x Repeal
2x Spell Snare

20 lands
4x Scalding Tarn
4x Flooded Strand
3x Steam Vents
2x Hallowed fountain
1x Sacred Foundry
4x Island
1x Plains
1x Mountain

Sideboard (not refined):
3x Pithing Needle
3x Grafdigger's Cage
4x Negate
2x Counterflux
3x Blood Moon

Easily lives through pyroclasms by just hanging on to a token generator in preparation for it. Seems extremely well positioned against Abzan's 1 for 1s if you don't play token generators without a spell ready. Cavern of Souls would work for all the humans here, but I don't know if that's something worth trying what with all the spells we want to be slamming.

YP and Mentor are control creatures imo.

Swiftsprear and Delver are aggro.

I don't think it is great to put them all in the same deck. Overall the deck seems to be more aggro, and hardly any control elements so Mentor seems slow and not worth it.

[Phoenix Ignition]

YP and Mentor are control creatures imo.

Swiftsprear and Delver are aggro.

I don't think it is great to put them all in the same deck. Overall the deck seems to be more aggro, and hardly any control elements so Mentor seems slow and not worth it.

Thanks for the advice, it looks like you spent a long time thinking about it before posting. In all my years of playing magic I never knew which creatures should go in which deck, but if Young Pyromancer and Monastery Mentor have the label of "Control creatures" then it's super easy and I really shouldn't have put them in a deck that has the ability to be aggressive.

And people wonder why no one comes to this site for Modern.

[Davran]

I like the list and admittedly don't keep up with modern all that much, but why no Remand and/or Mana Leak? It seems like either would be more flexible than Spell Snare in the main deck, especially only as a 2-of. If it's a CMC thing, maybe Spell Pierce is the way to go? I just feel like if you're going to run only 2 counters they should be as flexible as possible since drawing them "on time" is going to be fairly rare.

[Phoenix Ignition]

I like the list and admittedly don't keep up with modern all that much, but why no Remand and/or Mana Leak? It seems like either would be more flexible than Spell Snare in the main deck, especially only as a 2-of. If it's a CMC thing, maybe Spell Pierce is the way to go? I just feel like if you're going to run only 2 counters they should be as flexible as possible since drawing them "on time" is going to be fairly rare.

I've tried both but with Prowess you don't want to leave up 2 mana since you're attacking and pumping every turn that you can, usually leaving up 1 mana for Bolt/Path. Spell Pierce is definitely one I'll be trying out more, but having all-out aggro as a plan game 1 and side into counterspells against matchups that it would help has been great so far. I don't think 4x Negate, 2x Counterflux is the way to go on that front, Spell Pierce may fit in there nicely.

You're exactly right that 2 counterspells seems strange, and I'll only draw them sparingly, but that's where Snares get the nod over anything else since a Pierce late game does arguably nothing, whereas Snare will always kill what it intends to. I like Snare over pierce additionally because of Repeal + Vapor Snag being able to "chain" into a (crappy) 2 card kill spell for a Tarmogoyf or out of control Scooze. I like that it helps when I lose the die roll as well.

There's definitely some room for tweaking on the non-cantrip spells. I'd like to fit in some Lightning Helix since the burn matchup isn't great (Manabase damage issues there).

I've been doing some MTGO testing but not a daily yet. It was pretty awesome beating a boggles deck due to Repeal on Runed Halo during a critical attack, and being able to block down a 9/7 first strike trampler with double totem armor with only mentor tokens three turns in a row. If you play against a deck that doesn't have board sweepers they just can't handle the amount of chump blocking and token generating we can do.

Seriously guys, Monastery Mentor is broken as any creature printed in the last 10 years, if you don't trust me then just try him out. Getting Prowess triggers off of sideboard Stony Silence and Grafdigger's Cages is the best feeling in Magic.

[Valtrix]

I like the concept, but I don't care for swiftspear much in this list. Given that all of your creatures want you to play spells, the more of them you run the weaker each of your creatures becomes. Of the four creatures you run, I feel like its the weakest.

I would definitely play path #4. It's just the most efficient creature answer, so it plays well with your token generators, but also I think splinter twin is going to be picked up more. Having more ways to stop twin is never a bad thing.

You might be well served for a cryptic command or two. They are expensive for sure, but on the token generation plan being able to get an alpha-strike in seems very worthwhile.

I'm not sure about the inclusion of repeal, can you elaborate on that choice more? I feel like Remand is overall a much more useful card, even if it's not triggering prowess on your turn. Even playing your own 1 cmc -> remand -> replay is a viable line if you need to just kill them.

I think you really want a 5th burn spell, probably lightning helix to improve the burn MU.

[Phoenix Ignition]

I like the concept, but I don't care for swiftspear much in this list. Given that all of your creatures want you to play spells, the more of them you run the weaker each of your creatures becomes. Of the four creatures you run, I feel like its the weakest.
Swiftspear is definitely the worst creature in the deck, but 12 threats just wasn't enough to put pressure on an opponent who can deal with one of them. I like how she's much better than a delver mid-late game while being pretty awesome turn 1 as well. Having 16 threats means that the opponent usually can't save removal for Monastery Mentor and the token he'll always generate if you play him with 4 mana. The bonus with Swiftspear is that she'll almost always do 3 damage, which is good for a card, but in doubles they are actually formidable clocks.


I would definitely play path #4. It's just the most efficient creature answer, so it plays well with your token generators, but also I think splinter twin is going to be picked up more. Having more ways to stop twin is never a bad thing.
This might be right in the end. I don't have 4 because it's the worst removal tempo-wise (this deck can easily kill on turn 4, and that's not a pulled-out-of-the-air number), allows the opponent to not be punished as hard by a fetch/dual manabase, and some decks don't interact well with Path (boggles, storm, and Scapeshift). Bounce spells are in here to protect my threats from removal, and provide additional "free" prowess on the kill turn, but I'll get into that below.


You might be well served for a cryptic command or two. They are expensive for sure, but on the token generation plan being able to get an alpha-strike in seems very worthwhile.
Also possible, but a little less likely in my opinion. The reason I don't like it initially is that it makes Sleight of Hand + Serum Visions scry abilities a little less useful, since normally I just keep cantrips and ditch the lands, whereas this one will force me to take lands, watering out the prowess a bit.

The other reason is that, and I mean this, no deck has been able to keep up with the creatures produced. Alpha striking happens through opponents creatures, because in modern the number of removal spells is inversely proportional to the number of creatures a deck runs. YP + MM generate so many creatures that unchecked, you can overrun an opponent who doesn't have enough removal for them. If the opponent has a lot of removal, enough that you only get 1 token out of each YP/MM before it dies, it is also extremely likely they won't have that many creatures. Decks that play a lot of creatures don't play board wipes. It's kind of funny how that balance makes this deck so much better.

I out-creatured an elves deck yesterday. They only had Beast Within to kill 1 Monastery Mentor, so I was able to kill them on turn 5 through 6 creatures(!).


I'm not sure about the inclusion of repeal, can you elaborate on that choice more?
It's in there for a few reasons, having a critical mass of draw spells really helps the deck not run out of steam. On the kill turn it pumps your prowess guys for :U: if you have a token generator and draws a card, but more importantly it interacts with all the decks that Path doesn't. Bouncing a Boggles enchantment at an opportune moment, bouncing Amulet of Vigor in response to Summer Bloom, or even in the late game protecting one of your guys from a removal. It costs a little more to do a little extra, but if you have Monastery Mentor it can win you the game by bouncing one of your non-haste tokens to prowess + draw. I've commonly used it as a way to bounce creatures as well, since drawing a card is so good in this deck I like it more than Vapor Snag.

Vapor Snag is here instead of path #4 since it also protects a MM/YP from removal. I could see bumping Vapor Snag up, but there are a lot of options with non-cantrip spells right now.

I feel like Remand is overall a much more useful card, even if it's not triggering prowess on your turn. Even playing your own 1 cmc -> remand -> replay is a viable line if you need to just kill them.
Remand requires you to leave open a lot of mana that you normally don't want to. I had them in here but with all of the prowess (and YP's pseudo prowess), you really want to be cantripping all turn. It's easy enough to do with Sleight + Serum Visions, and most importantly it grows your team on the attack. Remand just doesn't do enough, and although you can remand your own stuff, it wasn't worth it.


I think you really want a 5th burn spell, probably lightning helix to improve the burn MU.
Maybe, but I have so much removal that it's hard to really need more. 12 Cantrips that dig for what you need usually produces enough to deal with threats you care about, and often you can leave some creatures on the battlefield and not really care about them. A Loxodon Smiter isn't scary at all if you have 5 1/1s from YP. Attack into that elephant all day without really caring, you'll always be able to replace the token.

I'm convinced the Burn matchup could only really be saved by something like 4x Leyline of Sanctity and a few extra life gain cards in the SB. Possibly even some Spellskites. I doubt 1 Helix will improve the win percentage enough to really use it, and Burn is the only deck I'd want to pay an extra mana in for the life. I do want to fit them in, though.

[Davran]

*snip* ...Snare will always kill what it intends to. */snip*

I suppose this begs the question - what are you intending to kill with a mid-game Snare? Pyroclasm? I can't see a lone Goyf being an issue with all of the tokens running around, and a Remand or Leak out of your opponent doesn't seem particularly relevant since you've already got your prowess trigger out of the spell getting countered.


There's definitely some room for tweaking on the non-cantrip spells. I'd like to fit in some Lightning Helix since the burn matchup isn't great (Manabase damage issues there).

I was sort of surprised not to see Helix in here too. Maybe over the Repeals and stick them in the board instead?

Speaking of the board, seems to me like you'd want some number of Wear / Tear or similar for random Ghostly Prison players as that card ruins your day fairly well.


Seriously guys, Monastery Mentor is broken as any creature printed in the last 10 years, if you don't trust me then just try him out. Getting Prowess triggers off of sideboard Stony Silence and Grafdigger's Cages is the best feeling in Magic.

I totally agree with this - I made a Shu Yun deck for Tiny Leaders and Mentor is easily the best card in the deck. Your opponent has to answer it immediately or it gets out of hand really, really fast.

[Phoenix Ignition]

I suppose this begs the question - what are you intending to kill with a mid-game Snare? Pyroclasm? I can't see a lone Goyf being an issue with all of the tokens running around, and a Remand or Leak out of your opponent doesn't seem particularly relevant since you've already got your prowess trigger out of the spell getting countered.

Runed halo, pyromancers ascension, pyroclasm/ sylvan scrying, and cranial plating are the main ones, but every deck also has other things you wouldn't mind countering if the opportunity arises.




I was sort of surprised not to see Helix in here too. Maybe over the Repeals and stick them in the board instead?
The thing is repeal hits so many things and gives us an option to stop things classic removal doesn't, while also costing one on your MM kill turn. No other card fits that slot.

Wear tear is good. I've actually put in stony silence in the sideboard but may switch the entire sideboard around still.

[cherub_daemon]

I'm convinced the Burn matchup could only really be saved by something like 4x Leyline of Sanctity and a few extra life gain cards in the SB. Possibly even some Spellskites. I doubt 1 Helix will improve the win percentage enough to really use it, and Burn is the only deck I'd want to pay an extra mana in for the life. I do want to fit them in, though.

Leyline of course has the advantage of being conditionally free, but I feel like Worship is the way to go; you have enough draw to find it rather than mulligan for it, and it bails you out against more decks.


Wear tear is good. I've actually put in stony silence in the sideboard but may switch the entire sideboard around still.

If you are looking at the sideboard, is there a reason not to play Relic of Progenitus as your graveyard hate over Grafdigger's Cage?

[Phoenix Ignition]

Leyline of course has the advantage of being conditionally free, but I feel like Worship is the way to go; you have enough draw to find it rather than mulligan for it, and it bails you out against more decks.If you are looking at the sideboard, is there a reason not to play Relic of Progenitus as your graveyard hate over Grafdigger's Cage?

I like Leyline better against storm and heavy discard decks, Worship isn't bad but doesn't necessarily win against Burn with their Searing Bond and the like.

Relic sounds good, I'm not sure if I like it better but cantripping is pretty good. I'm just wary of needing 1 mana open at all times to pop it. Grafdiggers is just a big NOPE to graveyard decks.

I'm trying out Helixes now, I like the idea and a lot of burn decks are going around so I'll test out 3. Dropped lands to 19.

[Timber]

I've been thinking about Mentor in a UWR tempo shell since the card was spoiled. This looks really cool. Interesting thoughts on Repeal, especially in the Bloom matchup.

Have you tried Azorius Charm at all? Seems like a good mix of things this deck wants to do.

[Phoenix Ignition]

Repeal was an all star today against Merfolk's Aether Vial. Granted they were land screwed, but that's the kind of hand you keep with a Vial.

Azorius charm is something I haven't thought about much. Utility is nice, though costing 2 may be a problem. I like the lifelink mode, though, it would actually help a lot against burn. I may try a couple out to see how they mesh with the rest of the deck.

[Mr. Safety]

How useful is electrolyze? It seems to match up against lingering souls decently. Three mana seems like a lot but oftentimes repeal will bounce a 2 drop (goyf mostly). Cantrip spells that trigger your yp/mentors and also do some tempo work seem strong.

Would staggershock trigger prowess and token generation twice? Seems ok.

[Phoenix Ignition]

A few changes recently from testing. I've dropped the deck down to 18 lands, which is manageable with 12 cantrips and 8 1-drop creatures, but makes the cantrips more important landwise (but it really streamlines things later game). Lightning helix is definitely worth playing, and I've moved up to 4x. I don't like it on paper with such a low number of lands and high number of cantrips per turn, but you really do want the life gain in here. Also, it's really easy to kill 4/5 goyf + rhino + tasigurs with 1 prowess token and a bolt effect.

I tried Azorius Charm and it almost is good enough, but not quite. It too frequently would only gain 3-4 life where Lightning Helix always does 3 and usually kills something, and 50% of the time I would pay 2 to draw 1. I tried Remands again and once again am unimpressed. We do need to make a few concessions to playing Prowess, one of which is to have things to do on our own turn. Having sideboard counterspells seems to be good enough in that respect.

Electrolyze might be worth it but it does cost a lot for what it does. Lingering souls is big right now but mostly that deck is easy enough to beat. Drawing a card with damage would be great, though. Hard to say right now, but after cutting down the land a bit I think it probably isn't going to make the cut.

Relic of Progenitus > Grafdigger's Cage, drawing a card is great but actually removing a graveyard seems more useful since Tarmogoyf + Tasigur are things now.

Scattershock is worse than other 3 drops I'd use in it's place. Cute cards are only better than good cards when everything is going well for you.

[ScatmanX]

I really like this deck and the way it is being built/changed.
Would you mind keeping the OP updated with the latest version you;re testing, or the one you're mos happy with at the moment?
In my head I'd be trying now the one with:
18 Lands
16 Dudes
7-8 Burn
12 Cantrip
6-7 Repeal - Vapor Snag - Path.
Unfortunately don't have any real testing to help with.
Thanks.

[Phoenix Ignition]

Sure thing, updated.

Still a few things I want to be testing in here. Snapcaster Mage is a big one, since he has amazing utility with all our lands, but costs a lot manawise. Sideboard is also becoming more important as the deck takes form. I'll update the OP with lists whenever I get new ones.

[Phoenix Ignition]

After a lot more testing, I'm cutting 2 Young Pyromancers for 2 Snapcaster Mages, her blue brother.

YP is a great card, and I don't want them out of the deck, but the real star over and over again is Prowess. 1/1's from YP are great at stalling until MM gets out, or at applying pressure against the really grindy attrition decks, but Snapcaster can play both of those roles as well as having additional utility later on for Prowess triggering.

YP is better when you don't have a threat already, but SCM is better when you do, or when you need removal instead of threats. I also can't cut out instants or sorceries as Delver is a big part of this deck's damage output.

The rest of the Maindeck is feeling really awesome, actually, and you really always want to see a 1 drop creature in your hand. The kill turn is frequently 5, which includes removing threats/blockers before then. Goldfish is an easy turn 4, with nuts draws giving you turn 3s. Having access to 14 removal feels wonderful, while only 3 Paths are dead against non-creature decks. Repeal and Vapor Snag more often than not point at my own creatures to save them or give me lethal with Prowess.

4x Lightning Helix is pushing the burn matchup into winnable territory, depending on which setup you're playing against, with better results coming from those that play more creatures in opposed to spells.

I'm actually blown away at how well this deck handles GBW rhino/lingering souls. If they don't have a kill spell up immediately for your MM it's a blowout, and if they do just make sure you never play him without holding priority and a spell ready. My kill count on Rhinos with Monk tokens + burn spell is up to 5, and goyfs rarely get bigger than 4/5 in time.

Splinter Twin is also a breeze, we just have too much removal and too much pressure for their gameplan to work. Both Goyf version and traditional UR I'm undefeated against.

The problem decks are Tokens, which isn't a solidified deck in the metagame but BGW and WB varieties get really tough if they can get pump spells on their stuff (Intangible Virtue makes it hard to trade). A runaway Monastery Mentor can easily runaway with the game, though.

Lastly, UWR control is pretty horrible. Any deck that runs Electrolyze and White against us actually will have enough removal to plow through Monastery Mentor + YP, and Supreme Verdict can really, really hurt. I've beaten them with decent starting pressure and burn to the dome late game, but it's not great. I'm actually considering Mark of Asylum sideboard but don't think this matchup is common enough to warrant it.

[ScatmanX]

Lastly, UWR control is pretty horrible. Any deck that runs Electrolyze and White against us actually will have enough removal to plow through Monastery Mentor + YP, and Supreme Verdict can really, really hurt. I've beaten them with decent starting pressure and burn to the dome late game, but it's not great. I'm actually considering Mark of Asylum sideboard but don't think this matchup is common enough to warrant it.
How about trying a couple of Boros Charm in the board? It saves your dudes from Electrolize and,unlike Mark, from Veredict as well. Also, the 4 dmg option will definitely be useful from time to time.

[Tylert]

what do you think about removing the 4 swiftspear to play 4 snapcaster mages and 4 young pyromancers?
Less pressure, but more tokens and more lategame possibilities?
Perhaps the mana curve would not be great in the end....

I'm gonna try the deck, just because YP is my favourite creature, and i liked UR Delver Pyro style of play before Treasure cruise / monestary swiftspear era.

[Phoenix Ignition]

How about trying a couple of Boros Charm in the board? It saves your dudes from Electrolize and,unlike Mark, from Veredict as well. Also, the 4 dmg option will definitely be useful from time to time.
I might try it out in the main as that's another catch all type of card. 4 damage is good, and indestructible might save the team, but getting to 5 mana will be hard. I don't like it as much as a sideboard since a lot of those slots are necessary (Modern is such a linear-broken format...).


what do you think about removing the 4 swiftspear to play 4 snapcaster mages and 4 young pyromancers?
Less pressure, but more tokens and more lategame possibilities?
Perhaps the mana curve would not be great in the end....

I'm gonna try the deck, just because YP is my favourite creature, and i liked UR Delver Pyro style of play before Treasure cruise / monestary swiftspear era.

Swiftspear is so good. She's probably better than YP since a 1-drop creature in your starting hand makes your win % go up by quite a bit. 4 Snaps is too many, though I haven't tried that yet. The problem with the deck is balancing lands with nonlands since you really want to hit 3-4 lands and then stop entirely, since any more is a detriment to all of your threats. I would take out Delvers before Swiftspears since they're just so variable. Powerful, and flipping early wins you games, but really relies on chance more than you'd like. Try swiftspear out first, she's pretty awesome.

Always play delver before swiftspear turn 1, though.

[ScatmanX]

I might try it out in the main as that's another catch all type of card. 4 damage is good, and indestructible might save the team, but getting to 5 mana will be hard.
Why would you need to reach 5 mana?
And I agree it's more of a MD card than sb.
Would really love this deck to run Harm's Way. That would be awesome.

[Phoenix Ignition]

The main reason to run it is to protect Monastery Mentor who is definitely the star of the deck. So you'd want to protect him the turn you play him, therefore 5.

Harm's Way is way too cute and almost always bad.

[Phoenix Ignition]

I've been testing a lot and am at a crossroads in deck designs. I've updated the OP with the 2 different decks, and they both have strengths and weaknesses, which manifests in winrates vs specific decks.

The faster version that still has Monastery Swiftspear has a faster goldfish kill which is very helpful against the slower decks that don't have many blockers or linear combo decks, Amulet Bloom, Splinter Twin*, Tron, and Infect.

The slower version that cuts Swiftspears for Dispels, electrolyze, and the full set of Young Pyromancers. I'm molding this version after Twin decks since Twin only combos maybe 40% of their matches and YP + MM are more functional creatures and should fill the roll of win condition better. Dispels are pretty awesome, and probably the best 1 cmc in slot since it takes out Lightning Bolt + Path on critical creatures while also making the control matchup and burn matchups much better (thus the -1 Lightning Helix in this version). Double Electrolyze means Affinity and decks with tokens are much easier to handle. The main added bonus is that I was able to move a lot of sideboard slots maindeck when I took out Swiftspears and therefore have even better sideboard options now. This version boasts better win rates against Burn, Junk, UWR control, Affinity, WB tokens, and Podless pod decks.

*Splinter Twin is actually still at 0% in matches vs me in testing. The amount of removal we run is just too much for them to combo out and their alternate strategy of beat down with 2/1 or 1/4s gets run over by the card advantage of generated tokens. But the games are much closer with the non-swiftspear version.

Sideboard is becoming a bit more solidified. The problem matchups are now Eidolon Burn (need to hit Helix or sideboards against them or you'll just lose with 1/4 of the deck being cantrips), GW token + creature + Gavony Township decks (but not the black version, for some reason Siege Rhino and Liliana just don't do enough against us). Decks with maindeck Zealous Persecution can be really rough. Amulet Bloom post sideboard can be tough, Hornet Queen is actually a huge pain.

[Quizzlemanizzle]

The version with Swiftspear makes no sense at all in my opinion.

Young Pyromancer and Monestary Mentor best fit into control decks. Swiftspear is true aggro.

It could be argued that Delver fits into control just as well as into aggro but still if I was making a UWR deck around Mentor I would probably start with 4 Pyromancers and maybe only 2-4 Monastery Mentor.

At that point I think Snapcaster Mage is by far the better choice if you want to run more creatures, unfortunately Modern has no access to Stoneforge Mystic.

Overall I guess I like a Team Italia style deck in modern a lot better than UWR. I played this deck before with just YP and Dark Confidant plus Thoughtseize, Path to Exile, Lightning Bolt, Lingering Souls, Lightning Helix and the secret star of the deck was Gods Willing/Boros Charm to protect the Young Pyromancer. It's a control deck that can grind with Dark Confidant, can transform into burn thanks to Bolt, Charm and Helix or just reactive control with cheap removal. Now throw in Monastery Mentor as YP 5-8 and a few filler spells like Night whisper or Valorous Stance et voila. Was good enough to win FNM without the Mentor.

[Phoenix Ignition]

Right, I keep forgetting how certain creatures are purely aggressive or purely control. You should just make me a quick reference sheet so I don't keep accidentally winning with the wrong version.

[Deckerator]

Have you done some experiences with your deck until now?


I wanna start playing this deck too. Build a similar version to yours.
Playing 4 Delvers, 4 Monastery Mentor, 4 Pyromancer, 2 Snapcaster Mage and thinik about the Monastery Swiftspear.

Then cards like Lightning bolt, Forked Bolt, Path to Exile, Serum Visions, Electrolyze, Gitaxian Probe,
Didnt think of Lightning Helix maybe i can find some some space.

[paeng4983]

I am interested with this one.
Anybody here care to share his recent tourney experiences?
^_^

If none, what are your thoughts/ in sights for the following match ups
Abzan, Twin, Affinity, Rw burn, delver patriot, UW control

Thanks!

[Tylert]

Was going to sleeve the deck for testing. I still find the idea good however after checking your list, I found out that 18 lands seems low. Even burn that plays only 1-2 drops play 20 lands. 18 seems really low especially when you consider that sometimes you'd like to play mentor and a spell in the same turn, or snap and a 2 CMC spell.
What would you remove from your list if you had to go up to 20 lands? 1 sleight of hand? 1 path? (I'm talking about the version with the full 4 young pyromancers).

[Phoenix Ignition]

You have 4 Serum Visions, 4 Sleight of Hand, and 4 Gitaxian Probe. You should not have troubles finding land when you need it if you use them correctly. I've found 18 to be correct after playing many games. You do not want to dead draw lands late game.

[Tylert]

You have 4 Serum Visions, 4 Sleight of Hand, and 4 Gitaxian Probe. You should not have troubles finding land when you need it if you use them correctly. I've found 18 to be correct after playing many games. You do not want to dead draw lands late game.

Fair enough. I forgot about the 4 sleight of hands. I was comparing this deck to my old UR (before treasure cruise era) and I did not play sleight of hand at that time.
I'll try it with 18 lands. we will see. (I fear the 1 lander / 1 cantrip hand on the draw that gets devastated by a thoughtseize thought :) )

[paeng4983]

Defensively speaking, I am not a big fan of counter spells.
I am thinking of using discard spells, Thoughtseize and Kozilek of Inquision and Duress I think would be enough.
I'll try to come up with the deck and will use this in my LGS this weekend.

[Phoenix Ignition]

So 4 color UWRB? Or are you dropping blue and cantrips? Either of those options are going to be difficult on the current manabase and you'll have to bump up the number you play.

[haole]

Glad to see someone else really excited to test out this archetype! I've been playing a list with 4x delver, 4x YP, 4x SCM, and 2x Monastery Mentor. I like the argument that this deck doesn't want to play counter spells due to wanting to achieve as many prowess triggers on your turn while attacking. Another card to consider is valorous stance. It can act as both removal against Goyf and protect a delver from abrupt decay, etc. Hopefully modern will be firing tonight at my LGS and I can comeback with some positive results.

[paeng4983]

I am not going to drop cantrips.
Just the counter spells.
Anyway, i am just speaking theoretically.theoretically.

Also, 4 mentor, is it too much? Two or three is just right, at least as i see it. What do u think guys?

[Phoenix Ignition]

Sure, but if you want to add discard you have to add another color, which really hurts the manabase.

Mentor is so much better than Young Pyromancer. I wouldn't cut any, he provides easy turn 4 kills (if you can save a Git Probe) and multiples are actually just nuts.

For more specific reasons, BGW decks have bigger threats, which you can chump block with a token, but the threat of alpha striking in a single turn is very real if you have 3+ prowess on the table at an untap step. Mentor is the best card in our deck against them. For stuff that tries to creature kill you, you want as many mentors as possible. For stuff that has tons of removal, you want 4 mentors (you can always wait to play them so you have another spell immediately after, but you want as many as possible. Against fast combo decks, you want to get a Mentor out on turn 3, since you can actually race them. Against GR tron, you want as many as possible so you can reload the board after they pyroclasm.

I guess there is a decent iteration of this deck that doesn't play max mentors, but it's going to be closer to burn than anything else.

[Tylert]

Hello,

don't know if you are still playing the deck.
However, was thinking about one potential card that could be played: Manamorphose. It's a cantrip that fixes and allows to play 2 / 3 spells in the same turn with only 2 mana.

Did you consider it at some point?

[Phoenix Ignition]

I considered it but if you have it early it's a really big strain on your manabase as well as being a card that doesn't really help you do anything. You're making yourself fetch out RR so that you can use a color fixing cantrip, which kind of goes against the whole point of having a color fixing cantrip. I'd probably go with Mishra's Bauble over that if I wanted another pseudo free pseudo cantrip.

[Tylert]

I considered it but if you have it early it's a really big strain on your manabase as well as being a card that doesn't really help you do anything. You're making yourself fetch out RR so that you can use a color fixing cantrip, which kind of goes against the whole point of having a color fixing cantrip. I'd probably go with Mishra's Bauble over that if I wanted another pseudo free pseudo cantrip.

Why RR? cost is 1R. At RR, I wouldn't have mentionned it also :)

[Phoenix Ignition]

Why RR? cost is 1R. At RR, I wouldn't have mentionned it also :)

Woops, was thinking it was G/R G/R. I still don't like that it requires 2 mana to cast because then it isn't actually a free spell in the sense of playing it turn 3 after you land a Monastery Mentor. Having Gitaxian Probes and Mishra's Baubles would be the best just because of that interaction. Those also allow you to play MM on turn 4 and leave a Dispel mana up, whereas you still wouldn't have mana up on turn 5 with manamorphose.

[Tylert]

I went to GP lyon this weekend with friends.
On friday they wanted to do a modern trial. I had my UWR mentor deck with me and thought that I could give it a go :)

The list:

4 delver of secrets
4 young pyromancer
2 snapcaster mage
4 monastery mentor

4 gitaxian probe
4 sleight of hand
4 serum visions
4 lightning bolt
4 path to exile
1 vapor snag
4 remand
2 mana leak
1 electrolyse

4 scalding tarn
4 flooded strand
3 steam vents
2 hallowed fountain
1 sacred foundry
2 island
1 mountain
1 plain

The sideboard was a mess as it was the rest of my old UR delver sideboard in which i put 3 lightning helix for burn.


2 spell pierce
2 dispel
1 spell snare
3 lightning helix
1 hibernation
1 izzet staticaster
2 smash to smithereens
1 blood moon
2 combust

So it was a 32 persons min, 5 round modern trial for 20€ with 700 BoM points (2 BFZ boxes and 10 BFZ boosters roughly) to win and 2 byes for the big bazaar modern tournament of sunday.

To be honest I tought I did not stand a chance. I played some games versus my friends decks: Merfolk and UWR control and it was really hard to win those matchups. Merfolk is faster and UWR control has so many removals... So i was just there for some fun games and to get some experience.

Round 1 vs Splinter Twin
Game 1: I keep a hand with cantrips and threats, but my 2 first threats are killed. A gitaxian probes show me a hand with one exarch, some cantrips but no splinter twins and no counters. I have one removal in hand, but i do not draw a threat, while my opponent draws splinter twin and a hard counter and wins :)
Game 2: we exchange removals and counters, and after some time I have 4 bolts in hand while he is at 12 with 4 cards in hand. At the end of my turn he plays exarch with two lands open and so i decide to give it a go because he might have splinter twins in hand. Bolt, you're at 9, bolt you're at 6, bolt you're at 3... then I see his smile disapear when i play the fourth bolt. he dies.
Game 3: Delver, pyro, mentor probe and my opponent doesn't have the combo i win some turns later with removal and counter back up.

Round 2 vs UW control
Game 1: He paths a delver turn one, but then cannot take care of young pyromancer. A wall of omens gives him some time, but i have counters and a mentor to speed up things. He trys to flicker the wall two timles with an angel, but i have remands ready.
Game 2: he's stuck at 3 lands for a long time and he doesn't kill my mentor. I combo out winning quickly even if he plays a finks, that he bounces with an angel.

round 3 vs infect:
game 1: I stick a threat and kill all his creatures.
Game 2: I draw 14 lands during the game, and izzet staticaster is not enough.
Game 3: I draw my hate izzet staticaster and has enough removal / counters to ride a pyromancer to victory.

Round 4 vs splinter twin
Game 1: my opponent is late... I win
Game 2: perfect hand. Delver / pyro with path remand and gitaxian probe. I have all the answers to its spells and he cannot kill all my threats. When he tries to go for it because i have lethal on board, I have the remand for its exarch he tries to dispel it but i have path in hand to kill it right after.

Round 5 vs AMulet bloom
Game 1: my opponent does turbo nothing with 3 amulets while I play in fear of a green pact that would probable cause my death. He never draws what he needs to combo out.
Game 2: No amulet of vigor this time. So I can play my threats with counter back up and win :)

we split the prize, and as I won i got the byes for the sunday event :)

My opinion about the deck? It's cool, but I think I was pretty lucky :)

[Tylert]

Digging the thread cause i liked the deck very much.

Just trying to figure if anyone is still messing with it.
Since gitaxian probe is banned I don't think it is viable anymore but who knows...

Murmuring mystic made me think about this deck. I suppose this costs way too much to be used (You can't probably cast it and have mana to cast anything else to generate a token).
However, 5 toughness is a lot in the format and i guess it could do some work. The fact that it creates flying tokens is also interresting.

So has anyone played this kind of deck lately?
Is it totaly dead since Gitaxian Probe is gone?

Is there another version running around with different colors? (some 4C monstruosity perhaps?)

[Mr. Safety]

Opt adds a lot to this deck I think, probably better than Sleight of Hand. If you play 4x Serum, 4x Opt, and then some number of Sleight, you should have enough gas to super-power your Peezy/Mentor plan. I've been thinking about Mentor lately in a shell like this, I used to play UWR Delver with Geist of Saint Traft. If I wasn't digging UR Wizards so much I'd be playing something similar to this.

Lightning Helix is another incredible card for a strategy like this, it turns races right on their ear against decks like Burn and Affinity. I think it's definitely worth 4 slots in the maindeck. Abrade and Alpine Moon have given tempo decks like this a big boost as well.

[Tylert]

Opt adds a lot to this deck I think, probably better than Sleight of Hand. If you play 4x Serum, 4x Opt, and then some number of Sleight, you should have enough gas to super-power your Peezy/Mentor plan. I've been thinking about Mentor lately in a shell like this, I used to play UWR Delver with Geist of Saint Traft. If I wasn't digging UR Wizards so much I'd be playing something similar to this.

Lightning Helix is another incredible card for a strategy like this, it turns races right on their ear against decks like Burn and Affinity. I think it's definitely worth 4 slots in the maindeck. Abrade and Alpine Moon have given tempo decks like this a big boost as well.

Right, i forgot that opt had entered the format. I think i would still play 4 visions, 4 opt and 4 sleight. Cantrips are what it takes to go off sometimes. you need as much as possible :)

[Mr. Safety]

If you're going with 12 cantrips (excessive IMHO) I would cut the Sacred Foundry get another blue source in there. I would probably do this:

-1 Steam Vents
-1 Sacred Foundry


+2 Spirebluff Canal


I never had a problem with 2-3 fastlands in my Delver/Geist deck with only 18 lands, although I eventually just followed most netdecks and played 2.

With this many cantrips I would argue that Grim Lavamancer and Monastery Swiftspear should be tested out. This is what I would start with:

4x Delver
2x Grim Lavamancer
4x Young Pyromancer
3x Monastery Mentor

4x Lightning Bolt
3x Lightning Helix
3x Path to Exile
4x Serum Visions
4x Opt
2x Sleight of Hand
4x Remand

4x Scalding Tarn
4x Flooded Strand
2x Steam Vents
1x Hallowed Fountain
2x Spirebluff Canal
1x Seachrome Coast
2x Island
1x Plains
1x Mountain

When I played Geist I only had 6 cantrips (4x Serum, 2x Opt) and I used those slots for additional countermagic. Considering the plan of this deck (go wide with Pyro/Mentor) you are really trying to set up an explosive turn where you can establish lethal on-board. Delver almost doesn't make sense here, maybe additional counterspells/burn/removal to keep the early turns clear and then just go nuts t3-4 with tokens.

[JackaBo]

I 4-0 last night at LGS with this brew. Arcanist and mentor are best buddies. I outgrinded goblins g2 even though he resolved all 4 ringleaders.

Deck: JEDI KNIGHTS

M1 2-0 vs UR delver
M2 2-0 vs Lands
M3: 2-0 vs Goblins
M3: 2-1 vs colorless Stax

Counts : 60 main / 15 sideboard

Creatures:8
4 Dreadhorde Arcanist
4 Monastery Mentor

Spells:32
4 Brainstorm
1 Forked Bolt
2 Lightning Bolt
4 Ponder
4 Preordain
2 Spell Pierce
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Counterbalance
1 Council's Judgment
2 Narset, Parter of Veils
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Force of Will

Lands:20
1 Arid Mesa
4 Flooded Strand
4 Island
1 Mountain
2 Plains
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Tundra
2 Volcanic Island

Sideboard:15
1 Containment Priest
1 Blazing Volley
2 Flusterstorm
2 Pyroblast
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Disenchant
1 Null Rod
2 Back to Basics

I will probably change Narsets for something else.

[Mr. Safety]

Cool story, but this is the modern forum.

[JackaBo]

Lol i didnt realize


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