Magic Origins

[bruizar]

-Turns into one of the worst Planeswalkers ever. Check


Such an unfortunate misjudgment

[ahg113]

Such an unfortunate misjudgment

You don't think the planeswalker form is the suck?

A 2/1 for W, ok Elite Vanguard, you're in uncommon territory. Oh, 2W makes it indestructible until end of turn, welp, there wasn't much better things to do on turn three anyway besides swinging with this dude, and using the mana to keep him alive this volley.

[maharis]

It's certainly not the worst planeswalker ever. It's not even the worst Gideon ever.

It's not a Legacy card, though, unfortunately. As ever, Liliana and Jace are the only two with a shot in legacy. Though I could see playing Nissa as essentially a GSZ-able planeswalker in Nic Fit.

[bruizar]

I think that the abilities are quiet potent. 4/4 for 1 mana is bigger than delver, and it has the ability to stall creatures of any size with its +1, or even protect you from lethal with the +2. Gideon is a really good walker once flipped. "Once flipped" being the problem.

I think Gideon has a place in Goblins.

[sjmcc13]

Though I could see playing Nissa as essentially a GSZ-able planeswalker in Nic Fit. Lands might be able to run, and flip her.

[Barook]

Lands might be able to run, and flip her.
That sounds like a cool idea, but do they actually want to add her?

[iamajellydonut]

Lands might be able to run, and flip her.

And what happens when she flips? What's gained?

It's one thing to suck in creature form, and another to suck in planeswalker form, but all of these cards invariably suck at both somehow.

[Valtrix]

If you want a one mana guy that turns into a 4/4 with a bunch of hurdles, just play Figure of Destiny. People don't play that card? You don't say...

In more seriousness though, in Legacy you need a really good reason to want to play a card which is mostly only relevant when three or more creatures are attacking. If you have a board state where doing so is reasonable, well, you probably didn't need whatever card you wanted to trigger off that attack anyway. As such I think it's far more reasonable to play stronger stand alone cards.

[Richard Cheese]

And what happens when she flips? What's gained?

It's one thing to suck in creature form, and another to suck in planeswalker form, but all of these cards invariably suck at both somehow.

Nic Fit usually won't have much of a problem flipping her, and she would provide a reusable source of card advantage. Worst case, she's a slightly worse Wood Elves, which is definitely a card Nic Fit has run. Still, 7 lands is mid-late game stuff, and at that point there are probably better things to GSZ for.

[Barook]

http://cdn.themis-media.com/media/global/images/library/deriv/931/931940.png

GSZ-able Delver stopper, but there should be better options than that.

[sjmcc13]

And what happens when she flips? What's gained?
Her +1 is a card advantage engine, her other abilities produce kill conditions.

[supremePINEAPPLE]

There is zero chance of her being played in Lands. The engine will already be online if they make it to seven lands so the +1 isn't something novel and the random conditional 4/4's aren't the threat Lands wants. The creature ability is borderline non-existent when all it does is fetch a single forest without even putting it into play.

She would be fine if she magically appeared on the battlefield without investing any resources or a slot in the deck but that's about it.

[HdH_Cthulhu]

I just realized that nissa only searches for basic forest... Doesnt lands only run taigas? In nic fit i would just run prime time!

[Dice_Box]

I just realized that nissa only searches for basic forest... Doesnt lands only run taigas? In nic fit i would just run prime time!

We run a single basic.

Edit:
Primeval Titan is a far better creature to run in Lands if you want Card Advantage and the cost is something we can afford. Nissa is highly unlikely to see play.

[Quizzlemanizzle]

If you want a one mana guy that turns into a 4/4 with a bunch of hurdles, just play Figure of Destiny. People don't play that card? You don't say...

In more seriousness though, in Legacy you need a really good reason to want to play a card which is mostly only relevant when three or more creatures are attacking. If you have a board state where doing so is reasonable, well, you probably didn't need whatever card you wanted to trigger off that attack anyway. As such I think it's far more reasonable to play stronger stand alone cards.

I always chuckle when people pull these idiotic comparisons out of their ass.

Figure of Destiny needs constant mana committed to it. Gideon is a 2/1 for 1 with payable upside (3 for indestructible) and free upside (flip).

Clearly a very good card.

[bruizar]

If you want a one mana guy that turns into a 4/4 with a bunch of hurdles, just play Figure of Destiny. People don't play that card? You don't say...

In more seriousness though, in Legacy you need a really good reason to want to play a card which is mostly only relevant when three or more creatures are attacking. If you have a board state where doing so is reasonable, well, you probably didn't need whatever card you wanted to trigger off that attack anyway. As such I think it's far more reasonable to play stronger stand alone cards.EDIT:
Just because there currently isn't a sweet deck for Kytheon yet, doesn't mean its not a legacy power level card. I could see a lot of ways Kytheon could be played. Affinity, Lingering Souls, Goblins, some Zoo variant (just because zoo is currently dead doesn't mean it won't be able to make a comeback).

<snip> Rudeness removed.

[MGB]

Needing two creatures in addition to this guy just to trigger his flip may be too much for him to see play in Legacy. If they had only made it a requirement to have, say, only one other creature in addition to him having attacked, then it might have been more appealing. He's obviously going to be a chase rare in Standard for his entire tenure there, though.

[iamajellydonut]

Who are you trying to school, kid. I've been playing this game since fucking unlimited.

Is this a lame attempt at a joke or do you actually have brain problems?

[bruizar]

Is this a lame attempt at a joke or do you actually have brain problems?

Something between a troll and a joke

Although it was only a 26 man tournament, this affinity list won it nonetheless:

http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=9618&d=255265&f=LE


6 LANDS
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Vault of Whispers
4 Ancient Den
25 CREATURES
4 Frogmite
4 Etched Champion
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Vault Skirge
4 Ornithopter
3 Memnite
2 Stoneforge Mystic
4 INSTANTS and SORC.
4 Thoughtcast
15 OTHER SPELLS
4 Mox Opal
4 Springleaf Drum
4 Cranial Plating
3 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas

This list could easily integrate Kytheon as a one drop. The list is already reliant on white sources with the Stoneforge Mystics, and with Mox Opal, Springleaf Drum and Ancient Den it shouldn't be a problem.

I would probably change the Vault Skirge for Signal Pests (depending on how much you need the life) and throw out 1 Thoughtcast and 1 Tezzeret and 1 other card for 3 Kytheon's. This would speed up the clock I think. This deck could flip Kytheon on the second turn. The +1 can untap a creature for blocks or for Springleaf Drum so you can continue to cast spells in your second mainphase.

Will it fit in Miracles or Omniscience? No, but if that's your standard for legacy playable cards I think you're missing both the fun of the format and a sense of reality.

[Cire]

I think if you're going to make a deck with the game plan of attacking with three or more creatures you should focus on Windbrisk Heights. I mean if that isn't legacy playable (which I don't think it is), why would Kytheon, Hero of Akros be?

[iamajellydonut]

you should focus on Windbrisk Heights.

It's not playable, but fuck damn do I love this card.

[rufus]

I think if you're going to make a deck with the game plan of attacking with three or more creatures you should focus on Windbrisk Heights. I mean if that isn't legacy playable (which I don't think it is), why would Kytheon, Hero of Akros be?

The mechanic of the hideaway lands is reasonably strong - effectively spending 3 mana for a free spell. The problem is that the conditions aren't always easy to meet.

A lot of legacy is about synergy between cards. Maybe playing Windbrisk Heights, Signal Pest, Boros Elite, and Kytheon in the same deck will get you something better than trying them individually. (In general, I think that Kytheon and the other cards in that list are too weak for legacy, but time will tell.)

Similarly, I wonder about Gelectrode (or Sensation Gorger) ,Cynder Pyromancer and Chandra, Fire of Kaladesh sharing a deck, but that's not likely to go anywhere either.

[iamajellydonut]

A lot of legacy is about synergy between cards. Maybe playing Windbrisk Heights, Signal Pest, Boros Elite, and Kytheon in the same deck will get you something better than trying them individually.

That sounds like an enormous pile of shit.

[TsumiBand]

I'm trying to figure out what the actual upside of Gideon is in Legacy. I mean I like the card - I like a lot of cards. I like Arrogant Wurm. I like Mystic Enforcer. I like Riding the Dilu Horse. None of these typically make Legacy lists, much to my chagrin. (though I guess Blouses played Dilu Horse, because honestly if there are stronger plays than a 4/4 horsemanship hexproof Angel-creating UW creature I don't fucking want to KNOW OF THEM)

Let's put aside the question of flipping him for a second - he's flipped, boom, great. So what now, random White aggressive deck - are we just spamming the 0 ability and going face? Is there a compelling reason to use either other ability? Like I can see maybe luring a single huge dude away for whatever reason, but the Indestructible ability is kind of assy in a format with StP, PtE, Terminus etc - it may as well just grant pseudo-vigilance, right?

I like the card but I don't think it does anything in Legacy, that's all. Or at least, it doesn't do anything that something else couldn't have done better. A 4/4 indestructible is maybe okay but it begs the question of what you thought you were doing with that aggro deck that made you want to overextend like that.

[Ace/Homebrew]

Gideon is... kind of assy.
New Gideon (flipped) is just a worse version of Gideon Jura.
The first ability only forces 1 creature to attack, not the whole team.
The second ability is basically the inverse of the more powerful "-2: Destroy target tapped creature".
And a 4/4 Indestructible is not as good as a 6/6 Indestructible.

But Jura costs :3::w::w: to cast, which means it isn't a Legacy card.
So what is new Gideon's true cost?

Magical Christmas Land would be Kytheon, Memnite, and Ornithopter on turn 1 with your opponent not playing a creature and not having removal.
More likely you'll be spending between :w::w::w: and :2::w::w::w: over the course of 2 or 3 turns to play creatures, then the next turn (3 or 4 most likely) you can attack with the team in an attempt to flip Kytheon, but you'll probably need removal to kill the creature your opponent puts in front of him.

On top of that, Kytheon dies to all removal. And New Gideon dies to Abrupt Decay. And if New Gideon gets bounced, you have to jump through hoops to flip him again.



All the new walkers will be fun in EDH and Standard. One or two may find a home in Modern. These cards were purposefully nerfed.
By getting them to do what you want, you could have just won the game... You need 7 lands to flip Nissa? Isn't 7 lands what Scape-Fit needs to just win the game? :rolleyes:

[MGB]

The difference with this guy is that he costs a single white mana. He is extremely cheap. He only needs a little bit of upside and at W, he could be very playable.

[PirateKing]

The difference with this guy is that he costs a single white mana. He is extremely cheap. He only needs a little bit of upside and at W, he could be very playable.

The problem is he doesn't just cost :w:. In order for him to perform as people here are discussing, there is an additional time and mana investment that must be made. Elite Vanguard costs :w:, but it will never be anything more than an Elite Vanguard. But we're expecting more out of this card, and to do that you need to be honest with the cost evaluation. Saying this new Gideon only cost :w: is like saying Student of Warfare only costs :w: for a 4/4 Double Strike.

[iamajellydonut]

Saying this new Gideon only cost :w: is like saying Student of Warfare only costs :w: for a 4/4 Double Strike.

We already tried this comparison with Figure of Destiny. It elicited a response of...


I always chuckle when people pull these idiotic comparisons out of their ass.

Figure of Destiny needs constant mana committed to it. Gideon is a 2/1 for 1 with payable upside (3 for indestructible) and free upside (flip).

Clearly a very good card.

[Cire]

It's not playable, but fuck damn do I love this card.

My point was that if windbrisk is not playable then no way is New Gideon playable.

----

Just for fun - I came up with this abortion:

4 Windbrisk Heights
4 Mossworth bridge
14 Other lands
4 Emrakul
4 Grizzie
4 Show and Tell
4 Brainstorm
4 Worldly tutor
2 Kytheon, Hero of Akros
4 Bitterblossom
4 Lingering Souls
4 Phyrexian Dreadnaught
4 Stiffle

[PirateKing]

Saying "needs constant mana committed to it" would imply some sort of until end of turn clause to each of Figure of Destiny's abilities. You're only paying for each ability once. Both are a good examples of how these flip walkers "cost" more than just mana.

A good example of a card with cost beyond mana with a good home in Legacy is Delver of Secrets. In Legacy you could reasonable say the parameters are so easily met, that yes, it is a 3/2 Flying for :u:. Now I never played in Standard, but if it's as creature heavy as it would seem to be, people might have had this same argument; what does it REALLY cost? How often are you going to get the card you want versus the card you paid mana for?

[MGB]

The problem is he doesn't just cost :w:. In order for him to perform as people here are discussing, there is an additional time and mana investment that must be made. Elite Vanguard costs :w:, but it will never be anything more than an Elite Vanguard. But we're expecting more out of this card, and to do that you need to be honest with the cost evaluation. Saying this new Gideon only cost :w: is like saying Student of Warfare only costs :w: for a 4/4 Double Strike.

You should liken this investment to the investment required to make Tarmogoyf work, or Young Pyromancer, or Terminus, or Delver. Yes, you need to spend additional mana to make these things function at their peak, but that mana is being spent to do other things and the "flip" benefit is almost incidental.

There is a pretty big difference between Student of Warfare / Figure of Destiny that *require* and *lock you into* spending real mana to transform these creatures, and creatures like this that, if you build a deck that suits their purposes, can reach their peak with zero mana investment specifically used on them. If you're casting tons of dudes and attacking with lots of guys, you are gaining benefit from simply doing that, and any additional benefits you gain from flipping this guy are incidental.

Now, I'm not saying that this creature is as good as Delver / Goyf / Terminus et al. It remains to be seen whether a deck that plays a ton of attackers and is attacking each turn with 3+ creatures is really where you want to be in Legacy. But if that deck is possible and is viable, then there is really no extra cost involved in flipping this guy beyond his initial W mana cost, because your deck is just doing what it needs to be doing anyway - just like you don't view playing Brainstorm / Ponder / tons of other noncreature spells to grow Tarmogoyf and flip Delvers an extra cost, because you want to be playing those spells anyway.

[iamajellydonut]

My point was that if windbrisk is not playable then no way is New Gideon playable.

And I agree. The card is a Savannah Lions. If playing optimally, you should never have enough mana to actually pay his "payable upside". And his "free flip" will never be free so long as you have to build a deck around him to actually make it flip.

[PirateKing]

There is a pretty big difference between Student of Warfare / Figure of Destiny that *require* and *lock you into* spending real mana to transform these creatures, and creatures like this that, if you build a deck that suits their purposes, can reach their peak with zero mana investment specifically used on them. If you're casting tons of dudes and attacking with lots of guys, you are gaining benefit from simply doing that, and any additional benefits you gain from flipping this guy are incidental.

The point being casting tons of dudes and attacking with lots of guys is an investment of time, mana & cards that Legacy decks just don't have; especially in a world of Terminus. Discussing decks built around this flip condition is ridiculous when getting caught overextending is a death sentence.

[iamajellydonut]

especially in a world of Terminus.

And it's not even just Terminus. Every deck in Legacy whose agenda isn't to ignore your plan packs sweepers. From shitty Electrickeries and Forked Bolts to godly Golgari Charms and Toxic Deluges to neat tricks like Snapcaster->Bolt. Every deck has immediate access to a value bomb.

[Barook]

http://cdn.toucharcade.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Touch-Arcade.jpeg

I wish the CC of 4 and double red wouldn't hinder it to go into Imperial Taxes. I might still try it out if it becomes cheap enough as tutor target.

[iamajellydonut]

Is Siege-Gang Commander too good?

[Gheizen64]

As a legend and no way to cheat it into play like SGC, it really should've costed 1RR to be playable/good.

[Ace/Homebrew]

http://cdn.toucharcade.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Touch-Arcade.jpeg
The art is awful! I guess I don't hate that Papa Nalaar has the same goggles as Chandra...

But all I can think of is this:
https://aweirdthing.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/a11.jpg?w=300
Do you think our daughter will be a fiery redhead?



Anyways, I actually don't hate it for Eight-Moon Stompy. Gives a little bit of reach and a use for superfluous moxen or 3balls.

[kirkusjones]

http://cdn.toucharcade.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Touch-Arcade.jpeg


Am I the only one bothered by two people being referred to as one creature? I know it's been done before but I guess I never gave it that much thought.

[Ace/Homebrew]

Am I the only one bothered by two people being referred to as one creature?

Vendilion Clique is 3 creatures on one card.
Had to explain to a friend last week that 'Clique' isn't the last name of Vendilion, but a close-nit group that excludes others. :wink:

[iamajellydonut]

Am I the only one bothered by two people being referred to as one creature? I know it's been done before but I guess I never gave it that much thought.

I don't really care about this particular case. What does bother me is that a dislike of multiple creatures represented as one card was their justification to stick us with Elvish Mystic.

[lyracian]

I don't really care about this particular case. What does bother me is that a dislike of multiple creatures represented as one card was their justification to stick us with Elvish Mystic.
Also Runeclaw Bear! :cry:

The Nalaar's look more playable than their daughter. Fringe card but still 4 power for 4 mana with a built in burn to the face option.

As for the other walkers Nissa is a great card advantage engine for Green the problem is, outside of NicFit who wants that many basic Forests in their deck? Green already has "Titania, Protector of Argoth" and Prime Time neither of which need 7 lands. Nissa's only advantage is that you can play her on turn 3 and she is a cheaper GSZ target.


I could see a lot of ways Kytheon could be played. Affinity, Lingering Souls, Goblins, some Zoo variant (just because zoo is currently dead doesn't mean it won't be able to make a comeback).On a pure power level a 2/1 that flips into a 4/4 Indestructible is better value at 1 mana than Delver; downside is without flying he easily gets stonewalled by Mom, Gofy or TNN. I still like the card I just can not see it it breaking into Legacy.

[bruizar]

Also Runeclaw Bear! :cry:

The Nalaar's look more playable than their daughter. Fringe card but still 4 power for 4 mana with a built in burn to the face option.

As for the other walkers Nissa is a great card advantage engine for Green the problem is, outside of NicFit who wants that many basic Forests in their deck? Green already has "Titania, Protector of Argoth" and Prime Time neither of which need 7 lands. Nissa's only advantage is that you can play her on turn 3 and she is a cheaper GSZ target.

On a pure power level a 2/1 that flips into a 4/4 Indestructible is better value at 1 mana than Delver; downside is without flying he easily gets stonewalled by Mom, Gofy or TNN. I still like the card I just can not see it it breaking into Legacy.

I agree with you here. I think the only planeswalker that has competitive legacy potential is jace. Although that remains to be proven. Summoning sivkness is the hidden cost of these walkers.

[rufus]

Elemental Bond seems like something that could find a home. There's a decent number of legacy critters that have power >=3.

[dunk]

I don't really care about this particular case. What does bother me is that a dislike of multiple creatures represented as one card was their justification to stick us with Elvish Mystic.

It should bother you, as they just shit on their own rules anyway. At first I though that cards like "Ojutai Exemplars" was an exception as it is Mythic, but even on commons like "Sibsig Icebreakers" or "Aerie Bowmasters"... fuck that.

[Kanti]

It should bother you, as they just shit on their own rules anyway. At first I though that cards like "Ojutai Exemplars" was an exception as it is Mythic, but even on commons like "Sibsig Icebreakers" or "Aerie Bowmasters"... fuck that.

Wait, at first you thought the only cards that art multiple characters were some rarities like Ojutai Exemplars? Who even knows what that card does? Llanowar Elves should be the first card to shoot into your head.

Pretty weird thing to get pissed at. And why woudn't you want Elvish Mystic around? Better for commander, and it gives you a new name and art to choose from. Do you like Llanowar Elves, Fyndhorn Elves, or Elvish Mystic? More choices.

[Barook]

Elemental Bond seems like something that could find a home. There's a decent number of legacy critters that have power >=3.
But what deck does run enough of them to make the card worthwhile? By itself, it's just card disadvantage.

[rufus]

But what deck does run enough of them to make the card worthwhile? By itself, it's just card disadvantage.

You're right. Legacy has Glimpse of Nature and Beck // Call which will be better almost all of the time. The cards that Elemental Bond would work well with aren't that bad though:

I'm guessing it wouldn't work with Batterskull because the germ token enters play as a 0/0, and it's kind of silly with Geist of Saint Traft.

Is there a deck that runs Nimble Mongoose, Wild Nacatl, Tarmogoyf, and Knight of the Reliquary?

Or one that runs Shriekmaw,Strangleroot Geist, Geralf's Messenger, and Treacherous Pit Dweller?

[Cire]

But what deck does run enough of them to make the card worthwhile? By itself, it's just card disadvantage.

Standard draw engine with Mardu Scout?

[Amon Amarth]

WotC posted images of some of the spoiled cards from the video so you don't have to squint anymore. Spoilers coming soon too!

http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/arcana/yes-what-you-saw-2015-06-18

[Barook]

http://www.microsoftstudiosblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/0076_MTGORI_EN_HRR-733x1024.png
Without the silly nonland clause, it might have been an interesting option for some kind of blue Painter deck.


Standard draw engine with Mardu Scout?
I was talking about Legacy.

[rufus]

...
Without the silly nonland clause, it might have been an interesting option for some kind of blue Painter deck.


I was talking about Legacy.

How about a Fluctuator instead? You can probably grind pretty hard with freetrip/cantrip gameplans too. Edit: Possibly high tide?

[HdH_Cthulhu]

How about a Fluctuator instead? You can probably grind pretty hard with freetrip/cantrip gameplans too. Edit: Possibly high tide?

insert obiwan meme>> now that is a card that I haven't heard in a long time!

Nah I think its best in this blue enchantress deck as an alternative wincon if you somehow cant living wish->Emrakrul. Still ug enchantress isnt the best deck and this wont make a difference. I mean you need ~15-20 draws to mill someone...

[dunk]

Wait, at first you thought the only cards that art multiple characters were some rarities like Ojutai Exemplars? Who even knows what that card does? Llanowar Elves should be the first card to shoot into your head.


...

The point was that they got rid of plural groups just to add them again in the last few sets...

[Infinitium]

I wish the CC of 4 and double red wouldn't hinder it to go into Imperial Taxes. I might still try it out if it becomes cheap enough as tutor target.


Is Siege-Gang Commander too good?

Yeah, why would a deck heavily slanted towards 3cc threats and equipment packing Karakas, Aether Vial and potentially Cavern of Souls use a 4cc legendary human creature with evasion that blocks Delver out of the box?

Also, props to wizard for using the one iconic green color identiy schtick as a flipping condition that guarantees the elf-supremacy elf planeswalker who is coincidentally an elf creature is unplayable in every elf deck in every format, ever. Shit like that takes dedication on part of the development team, as does Gideon remaining the sole planeswalker in the game not to pose a credible threat versus control decks. Avaricious Dragon is amusing as a draw engine that doesn't let you hedge versus mass removal. New age retro Liliana might see play over her Veil counterpart in decks playing Aether Vial (Deadguy)? Dwynen is rather conspiciously designed with Delver variants in mind but pretty cool nonetheless, will probably see maindeck play until the verdict is out. Everything else is of no consequence at the time being.

[iamajellydonut]

Dwynen is rather conspiciously designed with Delver variants in mind but pretty cool nonetheless, will probably see maindeck play until the verdict is out. Everything else is of no consequence at the time being.

Where and why would this 4cc hunk of shit ever see play?

[Infinitium]

Perhaps in some sort of combo deck which gameplan against interactive decks commonly involve stalling the board and drawing into additional engine pieces and bombs. Maybe.

[Megadeus]

Where and why would this 4cc hunk of shit ever see play?

This. Card is not great. Doubtful it sees legacy play. MAYBE modern SB for the elves deck as a Chord Target against burn. Even there it can't be gotten off of collected company so it's pretty meh.

[rufus]

...
Nah I think its best in this blue enchantress deck as an alternative wincon if you somehow cant living wish->Emrakrul. Still ug enchantress isnt the best deck and this wont make a difference. I mean you need ~15-20 draws to mill someone...

Yeah, but the stuff that loots through a deck has potential so I'm stuck wondering.

[Gheizen64]

Fiery Impulse R
Instant
Deal 2 damage to target creature
Spell Mastery - deal 3 instead

Here we go boys, finally we got a conditionally worse shock!

EDIT: posted image
http://i.imgur.com/uweQeG3.jpg

EDIT2: nice that we get an article saying how red has a problem that burn as removal is straight worse than black (but has the added versatility of going to the face) so they want to fix this by printing ... a shock that can't go for the face? Wat.

[bruizar]

Fiery Impulse R
Instant
Deal 2 damage to target creature
Spell Mastery - deal 3 instead

Here we go boys, finally we got a conditionally worse shock!

Let the spell mastering begin. If Fiery Impulse is a nerved lightning bolt, I wonder what the other colors will have. Complete the cycle?

(R) Lightning Bolt
(G) Giant Growth
(W) Healing Salve
(B) Dark Ritual
(U) Ancestral Recall

[Gheizen64]

Let the spell mastering begin. If Fiery Impulse is a nerved lightning bolt, I wonder what the other colors will have. Complete the cycle?

(R) Lightning Bolt
(G) Giant Growth
(W) Healing Salve
(B) Dark Ritual
(U) Ancestral Recall

If red get a worse shock that can't target player, blue will probably get:

Opt? U
Instant
Scry 1, draw 1.
Spell mastery : scry 2, draw 1 instead.

[Lemnear]

If red get a worse shock that can't target player, blue will probably get:

Opt? U
Instant
Scry 1, draw 1
Spell mastery : scry 2, draw 2

fixed lol

[Kathal]

Btw guys, they tested Opt in the current standard and they found it to be to good (yeah, I know). So something like this will never come.

Greetings,
Kathal

[Quasim0ff]

Btw guys, they tested Opt in the current standard and they found it to be to good (yeah, I know). So something like this will never come.

Greetings,
Kathal
Source?

[Barook]

If red get a worse shock that can't target player, blue will probably get:

Opt? U
Instant
Scry 1, draw 1.
Spell mastery : scry 2, draw 1 instead.
How about this?

Not-Brainstorm :u:
Instant
Draw a card.
Spell Mastery: Brainstorm instead.


Btw guys, they tested Opt in the current standard and they found it to be to good (yeah, I know). So something like this will never come.
Meanwhile, Modern and the Eternal formats have free Opts.

[ktkenshinx]

Source?
https://twitter.com/samstod/status/602502299726970880

This suggests the card will be considered one day, but that those effects are currently too strong for the Standard environment. Wizards is increasingly wary of cantrips.

[HdH_Cthulhu]

I doubt that they print another good cantrip! Look at modern, they play serums vision and in standard they are fine with anticipate.
So they wont make another hurr durr goes in every blue deck cantrip....

[Tokugawa]

Let the spell mastering begin. If Fiery Impulse is a nerved lightning bolt, I wonder what the other colors will have. Complete the cycle?

(R) Lightning Bolt
(G) Giant Growth
(W) Healing Salve
(B) Dark Ritual
(U) Ancestral Recall

Opt itself is already officially marked as "too powerful in standard" by WOTC staff.

So a weakened Serum vision/Opt is the best you could expect.

And ritual effect has "permanently" moved to Red from Black.

[rufus]

Let the spell mastering begin. If Fiery Impulse is a nerved lightning bolt, I wonder what the other colors will have. Complete the cycle?
...

They could do spell master thoughtseize or counterspell. On the other hand, if Firey Impulse is the target power level, it'll probably be Darkblast and Unsummon.

[Lemnear]

They could do spell master thoughtseize or counterspell. On the other hand, if Firey Impulse is the target power level, it'll probably be Darkblast and Unsummon.

I want a spell mastered Duress with a minor buff like Scry 1 or returning the black mana invested to the manapool. Thanks.


Opt itself is already officially marked as "too powerful in standard" by WOTC staff.

So a weakened Serum vision/Opt is the best you could expect.

And ritual effect has "permanently" moved to Red from Black.

No, 1cc cantrips are bad ideas at this point as they get adopted by Legacy. Stuff like Telling Time, Impulse and Co see no play in Legacy or Vintage and seem bearable for Modern as well. WotC just needs to fill the gap between 1cc cantrips and 3+cc cardadvanatage spells in their arsenal of potential prints.

Don't talk about effects/colorpie. WotC fucked this up back then, never stuck to the changes they promoted and never fixed them either. The last playable mana-acceleration printed in red is from July 2006 and the last time they used the black ability to use lifepoints to balance out low mana costs was with Dismember. Greens supposed to deliver land based acceleration but what it really is about we can see looking at Magic: Origins Nissa. WotC destroyed all color-identity and the result for example is that black is solely about discard, destroy non-black creatures and overcosted 5/5 demons with drawbacks

[Barook]

Relic Hunter* :1::w:
Creature - Human Soldier
Fame 1 (Whenever this creature deals combat damage to a player, if this creature is not famous, put a +1/+1 counter on it becomes famous)
When Relic Hunter* becomes famous, you may search your library for an Equipment card, reveal it, put it into your hand, then shuffle your library.
2/2

Although probably not powerful enough for Legacy, it might have uses as additional equipment fetchers past the 4 copies of SFM. Aether Vial @2 and Mother of Runes should definitely help to get hits in.

[iamajellydonut]

if this creature is not famous

Fucking seriously?

[Barook]

Fucking seriously?
Wording still might change since it's only a translation. But after Megamorph, I wouldn't put it past Wizards. Think Monstrous templating.

It's also a Human Soldier, which might matter for Cavern of Souls and Soldier Stompy.

[Cire]

Relic Hunter* :1::w:
Creature - Human Soldier
Fame 1 (Whenever this creature deals combat damage to a player, if this creature is not famous, put a +1/+1 counter on it becomes famous)
When Relic Hunter* becomes famous, you may search your library for an Equipment card, reveal it, put it into your hand, then shuffle your library.
2/2

Although probably not powerful enough for Legacy, it might have uses as additional equipment fetchers past the 4 copies of SFM. Aether Vial @2 and Mother of Runes should definitely help to get hits in.

I'm sad. . . To get his flavor right, he should have searched their library for an equipment card, exiled it and allowed you to cast it for as long as it remained exiled.

Anyway - not good enough for legacy since it doesn't actually get your equipment into play for 1W and instant speed. This will just be fetching jitte and we already have enlightened tutor.

[Redkid43]

This set is pretty shitty.

[Barook]

I'm sad. . . To get his flavor right, he should have searched their library for an equipment card, exiled it and allowed you to cast it for as long as it remained exiled.

Anyway - not good enough for legacy since it doesn't actually get your equipment into play for 1W and instant speed. This will just be fetching jitte and we already have enlightened tutor.
E-Tutor is card disadvantge while this provides CA if it connects + a 3/3 body.

It still might be too many hoops to through for the effect when SFM already exists.

[Lemnear]

E-Tutor is card disadvantge while this provides CA if it connects + a 3/3 body.

It still might be too many hoops to through for the effect when SFM already exists.

That's imo looking at it from the wrong side. If it's not for cheating Batterskull costs, the 1W ability of SFM isn't THAT relevant. It's a 3/3 beater compared to the 1/2 SFM creating additional redundancy for the equipment plan. I could see this replacing the topend beaters like Mirran Crusader or Serra Avenger in favor of more redundancy and cardadvantage for D&T

[rufus]

E-Tutor is card disadvantge while this provides CA if it connects + a 3/3 body.

It still might be too many hoops to through for the effect when SFM already exists.

If you just want to find equipment, you could play Gift of the Steelshaper.

This guy *might* work OK if you're looking for SFM 5-8 in some kind of Puresteel Paladin/Sunforger deck or something similar.

[Barook]

That's imo looking at it from the wrong side. If it's not for cheating Batterskull costs, the 1W ability of SFM isn't THAT relevant. It's a 3/3 beater compared to the 1/2 SFM creating additional redundancy for the equipment plan. I could see this replacing the topend beaters like Mirran Crusader or Serra Avenger in favor of more redundancy and cardadvantage for D&T
It's not a 3/3 before it can connect. Beater slots are also premium and both Avenger and Crusader bring different advantages to the table (evasion + a big butt; double protection and double strike).

Equipment being uncounterable with SFM is still a nice asset, though. T2 SFM into T3 Batterskull aside, D&T can't get any equipment online and ready before T4 anyway. It's hard to estimate how well it fits into the shell since there are various cards that have synergy with it.

[Bobmans]

I looks as if the card is designed as a replacement for SFM in Modern.

[Cire]

Fucking seriously?

Apparently that's a poor translation. In English its "renown" and "becomes renowned"

[iamajellydonut]

Apparently that's a poor translation. In English its "renown" and "becomes renowned"

jelly breathes a sigh of relief.

Edit: I just looked at the spoilers and I have to say that both effect and flavor wise, I'm actually pretty happy with all the cards that were spoiled today except for the demon.

[rufus]

Apparently that's a poor translation. In English its "renown" and "becomes renowned"

Is that really any better?

[Lemnear]

Is that really any better?

No, I hope to not see the german term "renommiert" on a card

[rufus]

No, I hope to not see the german term "renommiert" on a card

Yeah, that's a bit painful. Especially considering the archaic definition as used in "Die Sache mit den Klößen."

Edit: This seems even more apropos. (German language link) http://www.wilhelm-busch-seiten.de/gedichte/schein54.html

[iamajellydonut]

Is that really any better?

It may be yet another boring and uninspired ability that will constantly get confused with Bloodlust and the rest of its cousins and will subsequently be forgotten, but "renowned" is sooo much more respectable than "famous".

[Valtrix]

If you just want to find equipment, you could play Gift of the Steelshaper.

This guy *might* work OK if you're looking for SFM 5-8 in some kind of Puresteel Paladin/Sunforger deck or something similar.

Paying one more colorless for a 2/2 body (that can become a 3/3) is significantly better than Steelshaper's Gift (which I've actually used in Modern). I don't think the two are even comparable. I see this guy maybe going into collected company decks, as equipment becomes a lot more enticing when you can use your company to find equipment. Those decks are generally pretty hard up for space in their lists though. I have a silly little aggro deck (12 mana dorks 18 land) which I want to try this guy out in though.

[MGB]

Fucking seriously?

Another in a long line of recent gems - "famous" is almost as bad as this guy's flavor text:

http://magiccards.info/scans/en/ths/12.jpg

[TsumiBand]

I hate that 4-mana Wraths are virtually never good in Legacy, because Languish is a pretty okay Mutilate variant that can be splashed without going and getting Urborg first and gets rid of any X/4 indestructible or otherwise difficult-to-reach dude.

In Standard, Siege Donkey just happens to live through it... hmmm

[iamajellydonut]

I hate that 4-mana Wraths are virtually never good in Legacy, because Languish is a pretty okay Mutilate variant that can be splashed without going and getting Urborg first and gets rid of any X/4 indestructible or otherwise difficult-to-reach dude.

I mean, there's not actually a single Legacy playable creature that can't be taken care of by Damnation.

Edit: Or Toxic Deluge.

[TsumiBand]

I mean, there's not actually a single Legacy playable creature that can't be taken care of by Damnation.

Edit: Or Toxic Deluge.

I forgot Toxic Deluge was a thing.

Even so, I think I still just want to attempt this with Rhinos in play. Probably just in jank Standard/Modern/over-lunch-at-work.format/meh. It's like a shittier, less mana-intensive, earlier-cast Mutilate + Nantuko Shade + Cabal Coffers. It's probably not good, but it's better than the guys at work tend to be willing to put up with :D

[sjmcc13]

I mean, there's not actually a single Legacy playable creature that can't be taken care of by Damnation.
Emrakul sees play, and I think Darksteel colossus sees play in some MUD lists.

Edit: Or Toxic Deluge. Fine, but that is allot of life.

[TsumiBand]

Well I definitely wasn't planning on seeing Languish as tech vs. Emrakul but you're not wrong, it definitely doesn't die to Damnation.

I mean this is why I prefaced my statement with "too bad about 4 mana Wraths" because there aren't really a ton of board wipes at 4+ that are worth playing unless you can get cheaty with them.

[Bobmans]

Emrakul sees play, and I think Darksteel colossus sees play in some MUD lists.


It is Blightsteel Colossus actually, MUD ran Darksteel Colossus before Blighsteel Colossus got printed and basicly every MUD list running Kuldotha Forgemaster runs it since it can one shot your opponent. But the idea is the same. Both are indestructible.
Also Emrakul dies to Damnation.

[iamajellydonut]

Emrakul sees play

And Emrakul dies to Damnation.

[Finn]

Another in a long line of recent gems - "famous" is almost as bad as this guy's flavor text:

http://magiccards.info/scans/en/ths/12.jpg

I kinda like this guy actually, albeit casually only. There is just something about two-headed giant attack, Vines of Vastwood, Berserk, game that I like. I know other cards do it better. I like them too.

[Crimhead]

Marit Lage sees play, and doesn't die to Damnation. Toxic Deluge for 20 life isn't so hot either.

[Megadeus]

Good thing Terminusexists to take care of any of those things that we mentioned that don't die to wrath/damnation/whatever

[Cire]

Just a rules question. . . . If you attack with Preeminent Captain and place in New Giddeon. . . will New Giddeon count as having attacked for his flip clause?

[MGB]

Just a rules question. . . . If you attack with Preeminent Captain and place in New Giddeon. . . will New Giddeon count as having attacked for his flip clause?

Unfortunately no, because he never "attacked" for the purposes of the trigger. He was placed into play "attacking" and thus his flip trigger won't work if he was placed this way via Captain.

[swoop]

Do you guys think that Preeminent captain got his name due to his sexual performance issues?

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk

[Bosque]

Do you guys think that Preeminent captain got his name due to his sexual performance issues?

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk

That word, I'm not sure it means what you think it means...

pre·em·i·nent
adjective
surpassing all others; very distinguished in some way.

[TsumiBand]

And Emrakul dies to Damnation.

Does it, though?

It would, but... but does it, really?

[Barook]

It would, but... but does it, really?
It goes back to library, dead but dreaming.

[Zombie]

It goes back to library, dead but dreaming.

Library = R'lyeh?

[Barook]

Do you guys think that Preeminent captain got his name due to his sexual performance issues?
Preeminent Captain likes to double team - take that as you will.

Synergy with Relic Hunter certainly is there.

@Zombie: I think we're onto something here.

Edit: I'm thinking about some kind of Soldier Stompy list with Chalice, Trinisphere, Relic Hunter, Captain, a bunch of other Soldiers and 4x SFM for maximum equipment search effects for consistency. Think Sylvan Plug, except for equipment instead of GSZ and Sylvan Library.

[Darkenslight]

jelly breathes a sigh of relief.

Edit: I just looked at the spoilers and I have to say that both effect and flavor wise, I'm actually pretty happy with all the cards that were spoiled today except for the demon.

Each color gets two Legends; the Planeswalker and someone connected to that 'walker. The Demon is the one who Liliana initially made the pact with, when her spark ignited. We've seen how Jace Got His Groove Back (Clash of Wills) and How Chandra Set Up Us The Bomb (Chandra's Ignition). I don't think we've seen any of the others yet, though.

[bruizar]

This set is turning out to be one nerfed piece of shit

[Bobmans]

This set is turning out to be one nerfed piece of shit
Which puts me to the exact reason for me to strictly play eternal formats.

[Barook]

This set is turning out to be one nerfed piece of shit
Who's gonna bet that they'll use it later as justification that abandoning the Core Sets was the right thing to do (it is, but they take it as an excuse to print garbage).

[MGB]

Do you guys think that Preeminent captain got his name due to his sexual performance issues?

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk

The word you're probably thinking of is "premature".

[Bobmans]

Nissa's Pilgrimage
2G
Sorcery
Search your library for up to two basic forests and reveal them. Put one onto the battlefield tapped and the rest into your hand.

Spell Mastery - If you have two or more instant and/or sorcery cards in your graveyard, instead search for up to three basic forests.

Another beauty spoiled. Take it easy guys, it might just end up being useful *sarcasm*.
I guess they never recovered from Memory Jar....

[T-101]

Which puts me to the exact reason for me to strictly play eternal formats.

Word. But they usually have a couple new cards that are at least worth thinking about by this point in spoiler season.

Right now, we have... Liliana? Maybe? She doesn't seem super powerful, but its the closest thing to "good" that we have so far. Beyond that there's... Nothing. I guess the new Stoneforge guy is sorta cool, but I really can't imagine playing him before the 4th Stoneforge, and even as a 5th or 6th it looks pretty trash.

[Zombie]

Nissa's Pilgrimage
2G
Sorcery
Search your library for up to two basic forests and reveal them. Put one onto the battlefield tapped and the rest into your hand.

Spell Mastery - If you have two or more instant and/or sorcery cards in your graveyard, instead search for up to three basic forests.

Another beauty spoiled. Take it easy guys, it might just end up being useful *sarcasm*.
I guess they never recovered from Memory Jar....

wtf can't it be basic lands, or at least Naya lands, or fucking anything but basic forests. Then it would've at least been a buffed Cultivate, which is a good card.

[frogczar]

New World Order + Creature emphasis.

Welcome to Portal: Third Age

Standard has become unbearably awful. The last time I was interested in buying a booster pack was Return to Ravnica.

[iamajellydonut]

Nissa's Pilgrimage
2G
Sorcery
Search your library for up to two basic forests and reveal them. Put one onto the battlefield tapped and the rest into your hand.

Spell Mastery - If you have two or more instant and/or sorcery cards in your graveyard, instead search for up to three basic forests.

Another beauty spoiled. Take it easy guys, it might just end up being useful *sarcasm*.

I mean, it's not actually that terrible of a Standard spell. Hedges you into two colors, but it's still pretty beefy.

Edit: I take that back. I just remembered how tough it would probably be for G/X to dump two instants/sorceries into their grave that early.

[T-101]

It DOES give you +2 CA for 3 mana, which is not common... But they played it pretty cautiously after that. sorcery, basics, bleh. I could see this all over standard if the new Eldrazi are actually worth casting.

[Admiral_Arzar]

Word. But they usually have a couple new cards that are at least worth thinking about by this point in spoiler season.

Right now, we have... Liliana? Maybe? She doesn't seem super powerful, but its the closest thing to "good" that we have so far. Beyond that there's... Nothing. I guess the new Stoneforge guy is sorta cool, but I really can't imagine playing him before the 4th Stoneforge, and even as a 5th or 6th it looks pretty trash.

I like both the Dragon and Chandra's parents for Sol-Land-Based red decks. Other than that I'm not impressed with the set.

[iamajellydonut]

I'm actually pretty pumped for this little bit. I tried using Rain of Gore in Modern, but it turns out that Rain of Gore doesn't work with Grove of the Burnwillows and I got real sad.

http://media.wizards.com/2015/origins_askdf9aj2399v/en_8NKHRZJ4bS.png

[QBChaz]

Dark Petition 3BB
Sorcery
Search for you Library for a card and put that card into your hand

Spell Mastery - Add BBB to your mana pool

[Dice_Box]

Dark Petition 3BB
Sorcery
Search for you Library for a card and put that card into your hand

Spell Mastery - Add BBB to your mana pool
Well, that's interesting.

[Zombie]

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/thumbnails/71/757/200/283/635706495161560132.png


At the beginning of your upkeep, you may return target enchantment card from your graveyard to the battlefield.

As long as you control five or more enchantments, each other non-Aura enchantment you control is a creature in addition to its other types and has base power and base toughness each equal to its converted mana cost.

I like this card. Won't see play, but I like this card.

[Lemnear]

Dark Petition 3BB
Sorcery
Search for you Library for a card and put that card into your hand

Spell Mastery - Add BBB to your mana pool

Oh my.....

[QBChaz]

So, actual Demonic Tutor then ;)

[Darkenslight]

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/thumbnails/71/757/200/283/635706495161560132.png



I like this card. Won't see play, but I like this card.

I think it might be a viable alternative in the niche deck Leylines; Bolt and Decay-proof. It might also see play in Enchantress as a lock with Solitary Confinement, but that means playing 2 Confinements.

The Tutor effect is going to be really fricking good in black-based Storm...as an extra tutor effect. It might even be playable in Modern Storm, though requiring double-black is a little bit of a pain.

[Dice_Box]

Oh my.....

Didn't think it would take long for you to notice.

[QBChaz]

Day's Undoing 2U
Sorcery

Each player shuffles his or her hand and graveyard into his or her Library and draws seven cards. If it is your turn, end the turn.

[Dice_Box]

Day's Undoing 2U
Sorcery

Each player shuffles his or he hand and graveyard into his or her Library and draws seven cards. If it is your turn, end the turn.
Um. The fuck? Ok. Because that's not going to cause issues.

[Redkid43]

The fact that it ends the turn means you can't do degenerate things with this card like you can with actual Time Twister in Vintage.

It's such a trap--these kinds of effects are always so fucking hyped and then they just petter off. Remember when everyone creamed their jeans over Time Reversal? I mean, yes it's pretty cool, but ending the turn? So you reset and your opponent gets to draw into gas and play out first? No thanks.

Nekusar EDH and bulk bin. This set continues to underwhelm.

[Richard Cheese]

[Gigantic fucking picture]

Tappout timetwister, so....

Aaaah! Preview Post! Preview Post!

[MGB]

Any chance you could make that picture a little larger? My eyes aren't what they used to be and I'm just having the hardest time making out what it might be.

[Cire]

So many cool cards!

Starfield of Nix - maybe we can now do the leyline deck due to the redundancy?
Tainted Remedy - The Cure now has 8 card effects that can help it win - is it enough for them to be good?
Day's undoing - even at its worst its a draw 3 for 3 IMO
Dark Petition - Combo players just came.

[rufus]

Flameshadow Conjuring for more splinter twin goodness? Edit: Sorry, misread that.

[HdH_Cthulhu]

So many cool cards!

Starfield of Nix - maybe we can now do the leyline deck due to the redundancy?
Tainted Remedy - The Cure now has 8 card effects that can help it win - is it enough for them to be good?
Day's undoing - even at its worst its a draw 3 for 3 IMO
Dark Petition - Combo players just came.

Too bad Dark Petition has a bad Synergy with ADN! I mean I would love to see this replace grim tutor or something, but without some tinkering you cant just switch them....

EDIT: It would be nice to fork it. All red and black rituals + led...

Fork it search another fork, cast manamorphose, fork again...

[Bosque]

Flameshadow Conjuring looks interesting. I'm not a combo player, but surely there's something mildly degenerate to be had here, though maybe just for Modern.

[rufus]

....
Day's undoing - even at its worst its a draw 3 for 3 IMO
...

Is it good enough to work in a deck with Final Fortune and Sundial of the Infinite?

[Rishadan]

So this is a nerfed version of Noble Hierarch:
------------------------------------------------------------
Honored Hierarch-G

Renown 1

When Honored Hierarch is renowned, it has vigilance and "Tap: make a mana of any color"

1/1

[rufus]

Too bad Dark Petition has a bad Synergy with ADN! I mean I would love to see this replace grim tutor or something, but without some tinkering you cant just switch them....

EDIT: It would be nice to fork it. All red and black rituals + led...

Fork it search another fork, cast manamorphose, fork again...

Dark Petition -> Past In Flames/Ill-Gotten Gains has potential as a line of play.

[Dice_Box]

Dark Petition -> Past In Flames/Ill-Gotten Gains has potential as a line of play.
Iggy Pet... I like the sound of that.

[maharis]

I don't know much about storm but this card seems to create a lot of really easy T2 kills.

T1 Duress

T2 Ritual
Ritual
LED
Petition
Break LED for red
Get PIF
PIF
Ritual
Ritual
Petition for ETW

And if you have Probe on that turn 2 you can also get tendrils. Am I missing something?

Granted, I lost on turn 0 to TES like 15 hours ago, so maybe the deck doesn't need more T2 wins, but I don't think the card is dead. Maybe Petition Storm is a different variant?

[Finn]

Dark Petition is absurd. Its bad synergy with AdN is the only reason I am not in that thread right now. But considering how little ANT now relies on its namesake card, I am fairly sure there will be an attempt at a combo deck featuring Dark Petition and Past in Flames prominently. I wish I had more oomph left in the Magic part of my brain. I would be all over working this out.

If for no other reason than it can possibly have Force of Will where LED storm can not.

[Lemnear]

I don't know much about storm but this card seems to create a lot of really easy T2 kills.

T1 Duress

T2 Ritual
Ritual
LED
Petition
Break LED for red
Get PIF
PIF
Ritual
Ritual
Petition for ETW

And if you have Probe on that turn 2 you can also get tendrils. Am I missing something?

Granted, I lost on turn 0 to TES like 15 hours ago, so maybe the deck doesn't need more T2 wins, but I don't think the card is dead. Maybe Petition Storm is a different variant?

Petition goes straight into ANT. For TES it's a potential Wish-Target

[H]

Well, at least this set got a little interesting with things we can actually discuss.

Is it odd that we haven't seen the Basic Lands from the set yet? Or are they usually last to be spoiled? I feel like they are usually first...

[Darkenslight]

Flameshadow Conjuring looks interesting. I'm not a combo player, but surely there's something mildly degenerate to be had here, though maybe just for Modern.

It's funny in R/G Tron for cloning Wurmcoils.

[Barook]

So, Dark Petition is basically a Demonic Tutor once you start playing a bunch of Rituals? Seems quite powerful.

Day's Undoing seems breakable. Might be good in a deck heavy on instants. The drawback might be less relevant if you plan to play it in your second main phase after you've done your stuff anyway. I could see potential in some kind of "burn through your hand, then reload" kind of deck. We should definitely keep an eye on that.

@Cire: Interesting point to bring up. But how reliably can Leyline.deck generate 5 mana compared to 4? It also needs 4 other enchantments before it activates.

Edit: Honored Hierarch can't produce mana before T3 at best. As an accelerant, this is terrible, but Standard keeps shifting towards 2CC+ mana dorks.

[MountainGo]

I can't wait to at least test Petition in ANT. And I don't know this deck well so maybe I'm off but could Days Undoing see play in Reset Tide?

[Barook]

*pending translation* Hydra :2::g:
Creature - Hydra
Trample
Whenever a player casts a spell, put a +1/+1 counter on ~
1/1

Thoughts on this? It gets fed by your own spells AND their spells.

[iamajellydonut]

Thoughts on this? It gets fed by your own spells AND their spells.

GOLLY, Barook! It's almost like a big dumb overcosted beater!

Maybe Standard. But, since it's (french)vanilla, I wouldn't be surprised to see it do nothing there either. Vinelasher Kudzu, Wakethrasher, Taurean Mauler, Quirion Dryad... At X/X where X equals "relatively huge", none of these matter. This won't matter either.

[rufus]

...
Day's Undoing seems breakable. Might be good in a deck heavy on instants. The drawback might be less relevant if you plan to play it in your second main phase after you've done your stuff anyway. I could see potential in some kind of "burn through your hand, then reload" kind of deck. We should definitely keep an eye on that.

If you EOT Final Fortune on the opponent's turn, then Day's Undoing will skip the game loss trigger with the end phase, and you get to start your next turn right after it resolves. You could also Quicken one of the other extra turn cards, or quicken to cast day's undoing on the opponent's end step.

[Cire]

@Cire: Interesting point to bring up. But how reliably can Leyline.deck generate 5 mana compared to 4? It also needs 4 other enchantments before it activates.


I doubt it would be a good deck. . . but hypothetically how is this line of play"

Turn 1 -
Drop 4 Leylines
Land
(if land is not Serra's Sanctum) --> Crop Rotation for Serra's Sanctum
If you have Opalescence cast it, if not end the turn
Turn 2
Land
Starfield of Nix

Doing the math . . . you need 4/7 of your cards to be leylines for that line of play. So around 34 leylines. Outside leyline of singularity we have 8 leylines, so you can play 38 total if you want.

So:

34 Leylines
10 Lands that can produce G
4 Serra's Sanctum
8 "combo" cards
4 Crop Rotation

That's 60 cards.

is it good. Hell no - but it seems like it can beat down with 20 power by turn 2/3 surprisingly frequently.

[iamajellydonut]

As neato as these tricks are, it seems like a lot more of a pain in the ass than just casting Time Spiral.

[Dice_Box]

Your missing the Serum Powder you also would want to play in such a build.

[Infinitium]

Dark Petition reminds me of miracle timewalk more than anything; being 5cc is quite the opportunity cost and effectively locks it into storm chain and fetching bombs. At which point one wonders why you wouldn't just run more bombs to begin with. Day's Undoing looks cool but I struggle to come up with a situation where you'd want to play it - combo decks can't use it to refuel midcombo and anyone else doesn't want to risk drawing their opponent into answers.

[Cire]

Your missing the Serum Powder you also would want to play in such a build.

I'm assuming you're talking about my list, which I'll be calling Next Level Leyline :tongue:. Serum Powder doesn't fit in the deck . . . not enough room.

(again, in case it was not obvious enough - it is a silly deck :/)

[rufus]

... - combo decks can't use it to refuel midcombo and anyone else doesn't want to risk drawing their opponent into answers.

You're also disrupting the opponent by wiping on the graveyard and messing with their hand. It seems like it would work well as a T2 play from a deck like affinity that empties the hand and then wants to reload.

[Gheizen64]

Day's Undoing would be incredibly good as a red card, a fixed wheel of fortune for actual aggro/midrange decks more than combo ones since it fit in the "dump ur hand , wheel to gain card advantage".
Imagine dragon stompy prison deck with those. Suddendly ur opponents new cards don't matter as much cause you have chalices and shits. Faerie stompy could probably try it.

The new tutor looks insane tbh. It's a slightly more conditional Demonic... the only thing i dislike is that it's a purely combo card. Midrange and grindy decks never want this because the returned mana cost is nowhere as good in those decks. I eagerly await the day of a GB sorcery speed permanent demonic tutor.

The opalescence looks good and better than actual opalescence tbh, but i don't think it goes in enchantress and i don't see other decks wanting it.

The red clone enchantment sucks hard.

[Mr.C]

You know what's good with that new Timetwister? Notion Thief. Also Liliana's Caress if you just want to kill them.

Hrm, might just try it in Modern...

[Barook]

You know what's good with that new Timetwister? Notion Thief. Also Liliana's Caress if you just want to kill them.

Hrm, might just try it in Modern...
It's no Wheel of Fortune. You shuffle your stuff back into library, so no discard and Caress kill.

[Bosque]

Notion Thief sounds like my kind of x-mas land, I will likely troll with that in modern.

[TsumiBand]

Notion Thief sounds like my kind of x-mas land, I will likely troll with that in modern.

That's classy as fuck haha.

[iamajellydonut]

Notion Thief sounds like my kind of x-mas land, I will likely troll with that in modern.

Why not just hardcast a Griselbrand at that point?

[Dice_Box]

Why not just hardcast a Griselbrand at that point?

Can split the cost over two turns, draws 14 cards at the cost of no life, empties the opponents hand and most important of all, treats Modern about as seriously as anyone should.

[swoop]

http://orig03.deviantart.net/6abf/f/2015/151/f/3/tasipurr_the_golden_paw_by_royalknight5-d8vb89z.jpg

need it!

[Holiday]

*pending translation* Hydra :2::g:
Creature - Hydra
Trample
Whenever a player casts a spell, put a +1/+1 counter on ~
1/1

Thoughts on this? It gets fed by your own spells AND their spells.

Although it's French vanilla, as Jellydonut stated, I like this card. He's much better than something like Wake thrasher because the counters are permanent. He's better than Taurean Mauler or Quirion Dryad because it's both players' spells that grow him.

In terms of Legacy I think you're almost always going to rather have TNN in the 3cc slot, simply because of evasion. I might just be a sucker because I enjoyed playing with Forgotten Ancient back in my Auratog + Rancor deck. Do they have use for critters like this in Modern?
Still, if you don't have removal for this Hydra he's going to become a big trampler really quickly. Barook, do you have a link to the picture?

[Richard Cheese]

Day's Undoing is pretty interesting. I could see it in a blue prison build like Tezzerator, but to me it feels like there's almost no downside to it for UR Delver. It's not going to be a 4-of like Cruise, but we've seen how good a "burn, swing, pass, counter" deck can be when it can stay on the gas past turn 4.

I'd like to see it in combo too, but it feels like you want to be sculpting a board state rather than a hand, and I don't know what combo deck does that besides Elves.

[Dice_Box]

Day's Undoing is pretty interesting. I could see it in a blue prison build like Tezzerator, but to me it feels like there's almost no downside to it for UR Delver. It's not going to be a 4-of like Cruise, but we've seen how good a "burn, swing, pass, counter" deck can be when it can stay on the gas past turn 4.

I'd like to see it in combo too, but it feels like you want to be sculpting a board state rather than a hand, and I don't know what combo deck does that besides Elves.

Painter does. Bit outside its wheelhouse though.

I agree on Delver. Really it is from my point of view a fine "Reload" card. If you have done what you need to for the turn and you can interact at instant speed, reload.

[Aggro_zombies]

How often do you really need to fully reload with Delver, though? And against which decks? I really wouldn't want to give a control deck a fresh seven with this thing just because it's very unlikely I'll have enough interaction to get through all the punishment I just gave them...

[Cire]

Painter does. Bit outside its wheelhouse though.

I agree on Delver. Really it is from my point of view a fine "Reload" card. If you have done what you need to for the turn and you can interact at instant speed, reload.

maybe even old fashioned mono-blue control (and a little splash for black for Notion Thief)?

4 Day's Undoing
4 Force of Will
2 Delve Through Time
2 Notion Thief
4 Brainstorm
4 Counter Spell
4 Spell Pierce
4 Snap Caster
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Vendilion Clique
12 Fetch
8 Islands
4 Underground Sea

[iamajellydonut]

He's better than Taurean Mauler or Quirion Dryad because it's both players' spells that grow him.

Bear in mind that Taurean Mauler was legal at a time when creature types were of great importance and still sucked. And bear in mind that Quirion Dryad is cheaper and is therefore by no means "worse". She's just different. And useless in the year 2015.

As awesome as it would be to have our token hydra do some work, he's too overcosted to be effective beats and his being vanilla means that it will never illicit an immediate response. Hell, if Monastery Mentor isn't good enough to see play, how do you honestly believe this lizard could stand a chance?

[Barook]

Barook, do you have a link to the picture?
Unfortunately, we only have the Korean version so far (https://www.facebook.com/MagicTheGathering.kr/photos/a.535740456483745.1073741828.532442256813565/924462214278232/?type=1&permPage=1)

[GenghisTom]

It seems like storm doesn't even need Ad Nauseam anymore.
Isn't 4x Infernal Tutor 4x Dark Petition into Past in Flames enough business?
Not to mention now it can play Force.
I think we're going to see a shift from ANT to TES and more Rite of Flame style ritual lists.

[Bobmans]

maybe even old fashioned mono-blue control (and a little splash for black for Notion Thief)?

4 Day's Undoing
4 Force of Will
2 Delve Through Time
2 Notion Thief
4 Brainstorm
4 Counter Spell
4 Spell Pierce
4 Snap Caster
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Vendilion Clique
12 Fetch
8 Islands
4 Underground Sea
Splash white for mentor, keep cycling that shit.

[Crimhead]

And I don't know this deck well so maybe I'm off but could Days Undoing see play in Reset Tide?Reset Tide plays exclusively instant speed spells.

[Zombie]

And I don't know this deck well so maybe I'm off but could Days Undoing see play in Reset Tide?

Think about it for a second. It's a Sorcery and can't be cast during their turn, which is when Reset Tide more or less needs to go off. On your turn, well. "End the turn" says it all pretty much.

[MountainGo]

Think about it for a second. It's a Sorcery and can't be cast during their turn, which is when Reset Tide more or less needs to go off. On your turn, well. "End the turn" says it all pretty much.

Yea I was thinking use it on your turn, then go off on the opponents. But it seems bad, earliest i would work then is like turn 5 and Tide probably wouldn't be emptying its hand much before then.

[Crimhead]

Yea I was thinking use it on your turn, then go off on the opponents. Go off with a random seven and no graveyard for DTT? Against a fresh hand? I've only ever played Spiral Tide, but this seems downright terrible.

[Adryan]

Day's undoing will push a lot of retarded aggressive decks like Burn with blue splash and some not so retarded aggressive decks like Affinity.

Swiftspear will make a comeback I think.

[MountainGo]

Go off with a random seven and no graveyard for DTT? Against a fresh hand? I've only ever played Spiral Tide, but this seems downright terrible.

Hence the "but it seems bad" I added after. Trust me I'm not advocating players do this it was just a thought that popped into my head.

[ivanpei]

Imo Dark Petition can be straight swapped with Preordain/Cantrip/Ad Nauseum in Ant.

-1 Ad Nauseum, -3 Cantrip, +4 Dark Petition. Done.

This really improves the consistency of ANT. Having 8 Business spells over 5 is really really strong. No more Cantrip into Cantrip into nothing.

Losing Ad Nauseum is not a big deal imo. I've actually swapped Ad Nauseum with Empty the Warrens on some occasions. Its not a big drop of in power level. Ad Nauseum kill is abit of a crap shoot anyway, I've died to it enough to know it's not too reliable.

This may elevate ANT to the premier combo deck in Legacy, making T2/T3 protected kills extremely likely and consistent.

[Lormador]

Day's undoing will push a lot of retarded aggressive decks like Burn with blue splash and some not so retarded aggressive decks like Affinity.

Swiftspear will make a comeback I think.

I don't like using such strong language to describe decks, but that's besides the point. The card art is good enough to make me want to play the card, but I'm skeptical.

Maybe it will work out plausibly well, but it seems to me that there's a lot one needs to do to get Day's Undoing to work. Either I'm building a deck that minimizes the disadvantages by using mostly instants and a very low curve, using Notion Thief, trying to cast Undoing at instant speed, or using Final Fortune.

Dig Through Time is probably going to be better most of the time. Instead of getting the full 7 cards along with all these drawbacks (the building-around of which will hurt my consistency), I can just tap two blue and Delve EOT and get the best 2 in that grip... which would probably take up most of my mana.

Dark Petition looks like the real jewel of this set so far, but I'm still waiting to see the dumb blue thing they're going to print. You know it's in there somewhere.

[wonderPreaux]

Imo Dark Petition can be straight swapped with Preordain/Cantrip/Ad Nauseum in Ant.

-1 Ad Nauseum, -3 Cantrip, +4 Dark Petition. Done.

This really improves the consistency of ANT. Having 8 Business spells over 5 is really really strong. No more Cantrip into Cantrip into nothing.

Losing Ad Nauseum is not a big deal imo. I've actually swapped Ad Nauseum with Empty the Warrens on some occasions. Its not a big drop of in power level. Ad Nauseum kill is abit of a crap shoot anyway, I've died to it enough to know it's not too reliable.

This may elevate ANT to the premier combo deck in Legacy, making T2/T3 protected kills extremely likely and consistent.

I don't think there is a post that more accurately encapsulates the overrated nature of Dark Petition atm.

"-1 Ad Nauseam, - 3 Cantrip, + 4 Dark Petition" is a terrible idea. The reason why EtW is a reasonable but worse alternative to Ad Nauseam is that they both give you an option to take a high-speed and high-variance route to victory. Dark Petitions high cost exposes you to soft counters and forces you to rely on Threshold Cabal Rits more, which retards your speed. Plus, Ad Nauseam lets you bounce back from resources losses and find multiple cards to win when necessary (ex, Chain of Vapor + Tendrils to beat Leyline), Petition does neither such thing.

Moreover, Dark Petition isnt anywhere near as good as Wish or Infernal at preparing you for the combo and is really only good at that combo itself. Don't get me wrong though, the card has potential. As noted, it's an ace in the Wish board for TES or TNT, and maybe there is some odd super Ritual/GY combo deck that might jam it. Personally, I think a 4 Petition lists that is actually good and actually makes the card worth running would probably not be TES or ANT, it might be SI or some sort of odd Doomsday list (in both cases, the ability to go Dark Petition > Cruel Bargain actually does let you use Dark Petition as an awkward set up spell, you could maybe try a tech Night's Whisper in any Petition list for the same reason of using Petition > Discard + Night's Whisper to win grind games that way)

[ivanpei]

Also another thing that makes it different from Infernal is that it can be used to find a silver bullet. You can use it mid combo to find your solitary bounce spell. Ie you are facing a chalice or a thalia. If the game drags long enough, you can use it to search out a bounce. It's worse than Burning Wish but it's better than nothing. Also in long draggy miracle matchups, you can break out of the Counterbalance lock with tutor into abrupt decay. Being 5 casting cost is a plus in this case, hard casting it against miracles without acceleration is very plausible.

[wonderPreaux]

Also another thing that makes it different from Infernal is that it can be used to find a silver bullet. You can use it mid combo to find your solitary bounce spell. Ie you are facing a chalice or a thalia. If the game drags long enough, you can use it to search out a bounce. It's worse than Burning Wish but it's better than nothing. Also in long draggy miracle matchups, you can break out of the Counterbalance lock with tutor into abrupt decay. Being 5 casting cost is a plus in this case, hard casting it against miracles without acceleration is very plausible.

So you plan on sitting against DnT to assemble 6 lands, or giving Miracles enough time to do god knows what so you can pull 5 lands? It's not like "nothing" is the alternative anyway, you have cantrips. Well, you do in the sensible world where you don't drop them for a 5-mana card...

[ActionJunkie]

The fact that it ends the turn means you can't do degenerate things with this card like you can with actual Time Twister in Vintage.

It's such a trap--these kinds of effects are always so fucking hyped and then they just petter off. Remember when everyone creamed their jeans over Time Reversal? I mean, yes it's pretty cool, but ending the turn? So you reset and your opponent gets to draw into gas and play out first? No thanks.

Nekusar EDH and bulk bin. This set continues to underwhelm.

Time Reversal failed because by the time you get to 5mana your opponent has dumped enough cards or has done enough to where you lose the possible card advantage that Wheel of Fortune/Time Twister give you by dumping your hand and playing on turn 2/3/4. Casting this when you are down to 0-2 cards and your opponent has 5+ can be bonkers in any format. Oh and this has the upside of doing nifty things to GY dependent cards like Goyf.

There is no trap. There is only a ton of potential. Those hating on a possible mad CA card like this is just like all the hate Cruise/DtT got before people actually tested them. I can not wait to test this in EVERY format.

[ivanpei]

So you plan on sitting against DnT to assemble 6 lands, or giving Miracles enough time to do god knows what so you can pull 5 lands? It's not like "nothing" is the alternative anyway, you have cantrips. Well, you do in the sensible world where you don't drop them for a 5-mana card...

Sometimes after board clocks slow alot as all the combo hate come in. The games usually drag to a grind in post board situations

Having tutors, no matter how slow they are is good. Especially since the tutor is actually a combo component. I like the card. If you draw extras, you can use it as a mana neutral card with dark ritual or a mana positive card with a threshed cabal ritual. You lose the explosiveness of dark ritual dark ritual ad Nauseum, but gain the consistency of 8 Business spells. I like this change, I think it's a worthwhile trade off.

[Lemnear]

I dunno, why Days Undoing is discussed other than in combination with decks which run a lot of fast, permanent mana like Tezzerator or them using the graveyard (Goblin Welder, Life from the Loam,etc.)

Drawing parallels between this card and Time Reversal/Diminishing Returns is off because of it not only being cheaper overall but also costing a single blue mana which makes an imo obvious Synergy with Sol-Lands and Signets in Tezzerator for example

Edit:
@Dark Petition

I love that ANT can now run up to 8 Tutors basically costing only 2 mana so getting access to a Tutor or seeing Meddling Mage @ Infernal is no longer a backbreaker. however, this card alongside Cabal Ritual and Past in Flames is so soft to yard-hate in a meta which is also filled with DTT that it gives me chills especially as you need to cut the previous yard-hate counterstrategy Ad Nauseam

[siqatzi]

Any interest in this new card which has been spoiled?

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/thumbnails/71/801/200/283/635706982574044449.png

[QBChaz]

Any interest in this new card which has been spoiled?

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/thumbnails/71/801/200/283/635706982574044449.png

No.

[Darkenslight]

Any interest in this new card which has been spoiled?

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/thumbnails/71/801/200/283/635706982574044449.png

For EDH and possibly Standard? Sure.

For anything else, there's Storm.

It's really interesting in the hard control decks, though - because it not only reduces the cost of all the control spells, but it also allows for card selection as well. The problem is the cost.

[QBChaz]

I am no Storm player but there is at least a lot of potential in Dark Petition. It will take some time and work to determine whether the Storm decks need or want to shift their structure to incorporate it but there is power there. We could see a shift in how Storm decks are built and we might finally need a new name for ANT, it has been a bit of a misnomer for a while. Increased GY reliance in the Past in Flames deck is definitely scary though.

[bruizar]

Day's Undoing.

Seriously, TOO BAD that the card reads: if it's your turn, end the turn

I would have LOVED to play Day's Undoing with Teferi and that land that gives your spells flash so that you would timewalk+timetwister your opponent while countering his Wasteland.

[rufus]

Day's Undoing.

Seriously, TOO BAD that the card reads: if it's your turn, end the turn

I would have LOVED to play Day's Undoing with Teferi and that land that gives your spells flash so that you would timewalk+timetwister your opponent while countering his Wasteland.

Teferi only works with creatures, and Leyline of Anticipation is easier to get into play. The land you're thinking of is probably Alchemist's Refuge.

It's worth noting that the end of turn mechanic is what exiles Day's Undoing, so flashing it on the opponent's turn will put it into the graveyard just like a real Time Twister.

[bruizar]

Teferi only works with creatures, and Leyline of Anticipation is easier to get into play. The land you're thinking of is probably Alchemist's Refuge.

It's worth noting that the end of turn mechanic is what exiles Day's Undoing, so flashing it on the opponent's turn will put it into the graveyard just like a real Time Twister.

Yes, I was referring to Alchemist's Refuge!

I'm cringing so hard that they worded it the way they did. Leyline of Anticipation with Day's Undoing would have been a blast to play. The draw sevens would even offset the use of Serum Powders for consistent leylines.

Nice catch on the exile ruling.

[TsumiBand]

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/thumbnails/71/820/200/283/635707379324991347.png

Because go screw, Suntail Hawk!

Also, because "names of things matter" I suppose.

[Barook]

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/thumbnails/71/820/200/283/635707379324991347.png

Because go screw, Suntail Hawk!

Also, because "names of things matter" I suppose.
Actually, it's a strictly better Flying Men with more relevant creature types.

Interesting flavor side note: How are 20 men who are well-trained in the art of combat as dangerous as a Mountain Goat? :really:

[Lemnear]

Actually, it's a strictly better Flying Men with more relevant creature types.

Interesting flavor side note: How are 20 men who are well-trained in the art of combat as dangerous as a Mountain Goat? :really:

Just watch HIMYM to understand how dangerous goats are

[rufus]

Actually, it's a strictly better Flying Men with more relevant creature types. ...

I wonder if they're trying to push UB prowl as a modern deck.

[Finn]

I was pondering how to get the most out of Miscreant. I started considering good cards that could flicker or unsummon it. I abruptly stopped when I remembered that Delver of Secrets is a card.

[bruizar]

I was pondering how to get the most out of Miscreant. I started considering good cards that could flicker or unsummon it. I abruptly stopped when I remembered that Delver of Secrets is a card.

If anything, activate mutavault for the psuedo silvergill adept

[Finn]

Well, it can't just be a fairie. It has to have the same name. It is basically an Elvish Visionary with a considerable flaw to counter the relatively aggressive cost of it. I don't see this card making a splash.

[TsumiBand]

I know about Flying Men, I just made the Suntail Hawk comparison because I dunno, fuck white weenie i guess - 1/1 flyers for 1 mana with a non-drawback ability are about as close to squeezing the absolute most value out of a condition-less one-drop possible, right - don't need a thing on top of your deck to make it good, or 7 cards in your graveyard, or whatever, to give it flying. So it's always a 1/1 with evasion, and oops sometimes you just get an extra card if you're awesome at having cards with the same name in hand.

It's a minor gripe, but it's one of those things where I just have no idea what actually constitutes a solid creature anymore. I feel like cantripping off a 1/1 flyer is a great ability for aggressive creature decks and I'm just an old bastard that dislikes enabling aggro strategies in mono-Island, but whatever whatever who cares. I had a beer with lunch. I'm a little loose and stupid

[rufus]

Well, it can't just be a fairie. It has to have the same name. It is basically an Elvish Visionary with a considerable flaw to counter the relatively aggressive cost of it. I don't see this card making a splash.

It's also capped at one card per, so if you hit it with a kicked Rite of Replication you'll only draw five cards. I'm sure it's nice when you hit it, but that ability is not worth playing for.

[bruizar]

Well, it can't just be a fairie. It has to have the same name. It is basically an Elvish Visionary with a considerable flaw to counter the relatively aggressive cost of it. I don't see this card making a splash.

Crap, nice case of RTFC :) Always happens during spoiler season!

[sjmcc13]

Interesting flavor side note: How are 20 men who are well-trained in the art of combat as dangerous as a Mountain Goat? :really:
It starts avalanches ??? ya this does not make sense, but 20 dudes should be tougher then a 1/1 unless they are cannon fodder wimps.

[Ace/Homebrew]

Interesting flavor side note: How are 20 men who are well-trained in the art of combat as dangerous as a Mountain Goat? :really:
Keep in mind that the card Flying Men depicts 1 of those twenty (and Flying Man sounds like a really lame superhero). Plus look at how much bigger Mountain Goat is than Flying Men! It's like... twice as big. :tongue:

[Finn]

Keep in mind that the card Flying Men depicts 1 of those twenty (and Flying Man sounds like a really lame superhero). Plus look at how much bigger Mountain Goat is than Flying Men! It's like... twice as big. :tongue:

Crap. Yeah. Why isn't Mountain Goat a 2/2 or something? I always thought Flying Men sounded stupid anyway.

Richard Garfield once said that he had just read 1001 Arabian Nights before making the set. He literally just thought of interesting characters, items, and events from the book and made cards for them. I want the card to be like "Flying Carpet Rider in a Turban" or "Carpet Munchers" or something. But I think he took the translations directly from the text.

Damn, memories. Unstable Mutation on these blokes was an amazing opening back in the day.

[Lord Seth]

Strictly better Flying Men have been the norm for a while now.

See: Jace’s Phantasm, Galerider Sliver, Hypnotic Siren, Judge’s Familiar.
(I suppose Hypnotic Siren might not necessarily count as strictly better as it can be taken out by enchantment removal)

[Barook]

https://scontent-lax1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/11050782_915035588537601_6559137190034020221_n.jpg?oh=e50da033bebb43319ae2241dcb34b2c5&oe=563214F4

Nice, but kinda expensive.

Edit: While this removal spell is limited crap at best, it has a nice flavor. It depicts Liliana killing the Archangel of Tithes and stealing her bling:

http://s3.gatheringmagic.com/uploads/2015/06/25/nQpTVpuH9g.jpg

[HdH_Cthulhu]

So this has to be done: Its a mono white creature with flying that taxes pretty good! D&T?

[Barook]

So this has to be done: Its a mono white creature with flying that taxes pretty good! D&T?
Debatable. While it fits the theme, 4 mana is above the normal (Vial) curve and tripple white is a heavy investment to hardcast it.

[lyracian]

https://scontent-lax1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/11050782_915035588537601_6559137190034020221_n.jpg?oh=e50da033bebb43319ae2241dcb34b2c5&oe=563214F4
Nice, but kinda expensive.

It is another Propaganda for Pillow Fort EDH. While not 'strictly' better than Windborn Muse you get +1/+2 an offensive ability and the protection extends to walkers for the same CMC while being reduced to pay 1 not 2. It is probably going to be the better card in most decks since it can dodge bolt. It is the offensive ability that makes it most interesting. I do not think it will make the cut for Legacy but maybe Hate Bears/D&T in modern could use the extra tax effect?



Edit: While this removal spell is limited crap at best, it has a nice flavor. It depicts Liliana killing the Archangel of Tithes and stealing her bling:
That is nice flavor for the set.

[iamajellydonut]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CIVqHuqUYAAMA2F.png:large

"Moo."

[Lemnear]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CIVqHuqUYAAMA2F.png:large

"Moo."

Another spin on Ranger of Eos basically

[iamajellydonut]

Another spin on Ranger of Eos basically

I mean, this is a green 6/5 that puts a Knight of the Reliquary onto the battlefield while Ranger of Eos is a white 3/2 that searches up dorks and puts them into your hand, but sure.

[HdH_Cthulhu]

I mean, this is a green 6/5 that puts a Knight of the Reliquary onto the battlefield while Ranger of Eos is a white 3/2 that searches up dorks and puts them into your hand, but sure.

Too bad it cant bring ranger of eos or a clone, or a blinker or the new nissa, srsly whats with this restrictions...

[bruizar]

I'd compare him to Protean Hulk before Ranger of Eos. For one mana more you have a lot more flexibility.

EDIT:
Before someone else points me to it, yes Protean Hulk needs to die first, but creatures like this will only end up in Nic Fit anyway, which has enough sack outlets (Cabal Therapy, Phyrexian Tower, Recurring Nightmare) to trigger it. Protean Hulk isn't played, and this won't either.

[Ace/Homebrew]

https://scontent-lax1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/11050782_915035588537601_6559137190034020221_n.jpg?oh=e50da033bebb43319ae2241dcb34b2c5&oe=563214F4 http://s3.gatheringmagic.com/uploads/2015/06/25/nQpTVpuH9g.jpg

While this removal spell is limited crap at best, it has a nice flavor. It depicts Liliana killing the Archangel of Tithes and stealing her bling:

I guess Liliana paid :1:. :wink:

[Fatal]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CIVqHuqUYAAMA2F.png:large

"Moo."

I think this card is quite legit - Phantasmal Image for 4GG we have 5 guys 6/5 which 4 have some downsides. Too bad they're not green :/ my bad.

[sjmcc13]

I think this card is quite legit - Phantasmal Image for 4GG we have 5 guys 6/5 which 4 have some downsides. Too bad they're not green :/ my bad. You just need to drop a painter's servant first, and it should work...

[Barook]

I can't see why people can get excited about this. Isn't PrimeTime just more efficient as wincon for decks that can actually cast it?

The only real application I could see is Food Chaining it with Fierce Empath into Daddy Emrakul:

Cast Bellower, fetch Empath --> grab another copy of Bellower, exile both for 7+4 = 11 mana, cast 2nd Belower (5 mana left), fetch another Empath --> grab Emrakul, exile both creatures again to Food Chain (5 + 11 = 16 mana), hardcast Emrakul, tentaclerape opponent.

I'm no Food Chain player, so I don't know how viable this is compared to the normal plan.

[iamajellydonut]

I can't see why people can get excited about this.

Its creature type in German is "Bestie". What's not to get excited about?

All aboard the bff train!

[Barook]

Its creature type in German is "Bestie". What's not to get excited about?

All aboard the bff train!
Meh - call me when Surrak gets a planeswalker spark to punch shit through the multiverse, including New Phyrexians and Eldrazi.

[Barook]

New cards:

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/attachments/140/358/635708222616343223.png

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/attachments/140/359/635708222937711694.png

[Cire]

Combo deck with that and just chaining brainstorms and cantrips? :tongue:

[Finn]

Today's cards are all crap. The Angel of Tithes I got fairly excited about even considering the cost. Then I saw the word "untapped" in the text and realized it was absolute crap.

[MGB]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CIVqHuqUYAAMA2F.png:large


New green fatty with card advantage tacked on, meet Standard chaserareland. Standard chaserareland, meet new green fatty with card advantage tacked on, ready for the midrange smash-fatties-into-each-other fest that Standard is.

[iamajellydonut]

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/attachments/140/359/635708222937711694.png

It's funny that this is a sorcery.

[Lemnear]

New cards:

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/attachments/140/358/635708222616343223.png

Someone call Alex B.! Draw 6 Brainstorms are legal now! Woooooo! #fail

[dte]

I believe it can be the base of a new storm deck. Maybe mono U storm

[rufus]

I believe [Alhammaret's Archive] can be the base of a new storm deck. Maybe mono U storm

That casting cost is a challenge. Maybe some kind of Welder or Metalworker thing?

[bruizar]

I think this card is quite legit - Phantasmal Image for 4GG we have 5 guys 6/5 which 4 have some downsides. Too bad they're not green :/ my bad.

If there is a green clone for 3 and an anger for mana, this card would be an archetype

[bruizar]

New cards:

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/attachments/140/358/635708222616343223.png


Daretti loves the archive

[Lemnear]

I believe it can be the base of a new storm deck. Maybe mono U storm

That one is called High Tide. This card also does not deal with mana issues you might face

[sjmcc13]

That casting cost is a challenge. Maybe some kind of Welder or Metalworker thing?

so a U/R/X (W for enlightened tutor, B for Tezz) artifact deck using Welders and Transmute Artifact?

Not sure how competitive it could be, but sounds like loads of fun...

[Cire]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CIXHuaxUsAA_YZu.jpg

Thoughts? Trix?

[Undomian]

Maybe in that Ophiomancer Stax deck?

[rufus]

so a U/R/X (W for enlightened tutor, B for Tezz) artifact deck using Welders and Transmute Artifact?

Not sure how competitive it could be, but sounds like loads of fun...

Built for speed, it could certainly go off T2/T3.

[bruizar]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/cixhuaxusaa_yzu.jpg

thoughts? Trix?

donate

[rufus]

IMAGE: Demonic Pact

Thoughts? Trix?

It's probably too slow to find a home in legacy. Maybe in modern.

I think you choose when the trigger goes on the stack. That means Stifle will get you past the game loss downside. Obviously Angel's Grace will do that as well.

[Finn]

It seems close to strictly inferior to Illusions of Grandeur with Donate. Great Flavor though.

[Bobmans]

It seems close to strictly inferior to Illusions of Grandeur with Donate. Great Flavor though.
Woooo that brings back some memories.

[MaximumC]

It seems close to strictly inferior to Illusions of Grandeur with Donate. Great Flavor though.

Ya'll are high. Demonic Pact is really powerful and if it fails, it's because it's too slow, not because of the "You Lose the Game if you don't have bounce/removal/donate/stifle/why are you not playing that again?"

This is a 4-mana Black planeswalker. The actual abilities are as powerful as Jace, the Mind Sculptor. The problem is you can't use them immediately, and you can't use them more than once. So, you drop this and wait a whole turn cycle before you can do anything, which stinks for a 4 mana investment. Then you have to reset it before you can repeat the same ability twice.

I'm excited to see what this does, but I fear that it's just too slow to really do what it says it does.

[rufus]

It seems close to strictly inferior to Illusions of Grandeur with Donate. Great Flavor though.

It seems potentially better to me:

* No cumulative upkeep means it's easier to span turns.

* You can affect long-term card and board advantage with an alternative exit like angel's grace.

* Not sensitive to life gain.


It does bring up two rules questions:
1. Do you choose when the ability goes on the stack, or when it resolves?
2. If you Donate it, does it reset the choices?

[MGB]

You guys think this card will be a player in Standard in some combo deck?

[rufus]

You guys think this card will be a player in Standard in some combo deck?

Demonic Pact: No. (Riptide Chimera notwithstanding)
A. Archive: Maybe.

[lyracian]

You guys think this card will be a player in Standard in some combo deck?
It combos with Starfield of Nix as you can use the 4 Damage trigger to kill Demon Pact when it is a Creature and then bring it back next turn. Downside is finding enough other Standard playable Enchantments to activate the Starfield...

[Lemnear]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CIXHuaxUsAA_YZu.jpg

Thoughts? Trix?

I'm a 95% sure this card was among the top 8 in the last You-Make-The-Card Contest

[alphastryk]

I'm a 95% sure this card was among the top 8 in the last You-Make-The-Card Contest

I knew it looked familiar. Definitely what I'm thinking of

[lyracian]

I'm a 95% sure this card was among the top 8 in the last You-Make-The-Card Contest

http://archive.wizards.com/Magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/feature/247b