Magic Origins

[PirateKing]

2. If you Donate it, does it reset the choices?

Since Donate doesn't flicker the permanent, it's the same permanent. And since Demonic Pact says "choose one that hasn't been chosen" and not "choose one that you haven't chosen", I'd say it doesn't reset.

[Finn]

It is also not going to kill you on the spot if the opponent disenchants it with its EtB ability on the stack like they can with Illusions.

But if this is your plan, it takes five turns to win starting with the turn you resolve a four mana enchantment. Five turns. And there is nothing you can do to speed it up. The opponent knows exactly when it will kill them and they have a lot of turns to prepare for it. Oh, and if they counter Donate, you die.

Maybe in a Sundial of the Infinite deck though.

[HdH_Cthulhu]

It is also not going to kill you on the spot if the opponent disenchants it with its EtB ability on the stack like they can with Illusions.

But if this is your plan, it takes five turns to win starting with the turn you resolve a four mana enchantment. Five turns. And there is nothing you can do to speed it up. The opponent knows exactly when it will kill them and they have a lot of turns to prepare for it. Oh, and if they counter Donate, you die.

Maybe in a Sundial of the Infinite deck though.

But if everything works along the plan you 5 for 1 your opponent. So chances a good that you win the counterwar over the donate...

[Megadeus]

But if everything works along the plan you 5 for 1 your opponent. So chances a good that you win the counterwar over the donate...
This. It's KIND OF like a cruel ultimatum with suspend.

[glowparty]

But if everything works along the plan you 5 for 1 your opponent. So chances a good that you win the counterwar over the donate...

5 for 1? i'm struggling to surmise your counting...

[Cire]

5 for 1? i'm struggling to surmise your counting...

Discard 2, Draw 2 and kill a creature for 1 card is a 5 for 1. . . but lets assume you're running something else to avoid the kill it's more like a 5 for 2.



That said. . . why not a deck with Oblivion Ring, Flickerwisp and Detention Sphere or what not. . . . really hate on Omnitell while you at it

[Barook]

As a kill condition, it takes several turns after it has been cast to kill if you try Donate shenanigans.

I just don't get the hype around it. As a 4 mana card, it should help you win the game, not lose it after several turn unless you jump through hoops.

If it was cheaper, like :1::b:, I could see a point of experimenting with it, but at 4 mana, it seems too slow, at least for Legacy.

@Lemnear: Nice catch.

[MGB]

I'm a 95% sure this card was among the top 8 in the last You-Make-The-Card Contest

Amazing, I thought I recognized that somewhere.

So is the original designer being compensated for his/her idea in any way? Or is this just another way for Wizards to do "free" R&D by outsourcing it to the fans? How clever.

[glowparty]

Discard 2, Draw 2 and kill a creature for 1 card is a 5 for 1. . . but lets assume you're running something else to avoid the kill it's more like a 5 for 2.



That said. . . why not a deck with Oblivion Ring, Flickerwisp and Detention Sphere or what not. . . . really hate on Omnitell while you at it

so 5 for 2 best case (unless you win without donate).

edit: also results in winning.

would flickerwisp work? does the game or the card keep track of previous choices?

[glowparty]

As a kill condition, it takes several turns after it has been cast to kill if you try Donate shenanigans.

I just don't get the hype around it. As a 4 mana card, it should help you win the game, not lose it after several turn unless you jump through hoops.

If it was cheaper, like :1::b:, I could see a point of experimenting with it, but at 4 mana, it seems too slow, at least for Legacy.

@Lemnear: Nice catch.

it doesn't seem overpowered without the draw back.

[Barook]

would flickerwisp work? does the game or the card keep track of previous choices?
Of course it's working.

Zone change = new permanent

That's how it always works.

[Lemnear]

Amazing, I thought I recognized that somewhere.

So is the original designer being compensated for his/her idea in any way? Or is this just another way for Wizards to do "free" R&D by outsourcing it to the fans? How clever.

Nope. They disqualified the original designer because he was not from the US to avoid legal issues if his idea really would win the contest. Instead they simply stole the idea now.

[glowparty]

Of course it's working.

Zone change = new permanent

That's how it always works.

The card just reads (to me) as if it's more about whether such a choice has been made than during that permanent's incarnation.

[Cire]

Nope. They disqualified the original designer because he was not from the US to avoid legal issues if his idea really would win the contest. Instead they simply stole the idea now.

HOLY SHIT?! Really?!

[Darkenslight]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CIXHuaxUsAA_YZu.jpg

Thoughts? Trix?

This is actually a YMTC design that was, IIRC, submitted by one of our very own Sourcers.

I'll go and see if I can dig out the article.

EDIT: Here we go. (http://archive.wizards.com/Magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/feature/248b) The design was slightly different - instead, it destroyed a creature and had a blank.

Funnily enough, this is the YMTC that led to Waste Not.

[Lemnear]

Fix:

It wasn't the card Eldrich Rites from the disqualified designer from Finland, but the card Consuming Contract

http://archive.wizards.com/Magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/feature/247b

They just stole the idea non the less

[glowparty]

This is actually a YMTC design that was, IIRC, submitted by one of our very own Sourcers.

note: sounds like r & d changed the modes and name a bit.

[HdH_Cthulhu]

Omg at least send this guy a playset!
-- he posted knowing that they wont do it

[Barook]

They could have at least given the guy who came up with the base design a design credit or whatever.

This seems super weak of them.

[Cire]

Here's a random idea. . .

Pact plus astral slide? CA engine and wincon in one?

[Barook]

Here's a random idea. . .

Pact plus astral slide? CA engine and wincon in one?
Astral Slide is creatures only.

[ReAnimator]

I know Wotc can literally do no right on the source, but jeez guys, calm down. Isn't there a statement on YMTC that they may indeed use or adapt your designs? like if you didn't think it would be awesome to have your card or something like it printed, then why the hell would you join the contest? Just for the indignant OMG WOTC STOLE MY DESIGNS!!!!!!11 They totally don't just make 1000 cards a year by themselves but this one thing is a crime against gaming!

Chalice of the Void is Gary Wise's submitted invitational card (with a different casting cost). He was super stoked that they decided to print it any way despite not winning or having his picture on it.

[sheriffharry]

Ancient Tomb+Lotus Petal+Show and Tell+Omniscience+Demonic Pact+Donate+Worst Fear = Turn 1 WIN!!!

[Rishadan]

Ancient Tomb+Lotus Petal+Show and Tell+Omniscience+Demonic Pact+Donate+Worst Fear = Turn 1 WIN!!!

Omnitell with a new kill plan? Seems legit, prepare for the meta-shift. /s

[HdH_Cthulhu]

Here's a random idea. . .

Pact plus astral slide? CA engine and wincon in one?

I dont get it...

[Darkenslight]

Here's a random idea. . .

Pact plus astral slide? CA engine and wincon in one?

Skybind, I think, does the job better, but that's still borderline unplayable.

EDIT: never mind, it has the nonenchantment clause. Still, it's sort of amusing to have a bizarre BW Slide variant with Demonic Pact.

[theillest]

Knight of the White Orchid - WW
Human Knight

First strike

When Knight of the White Orchid enters the battlefield, if an opponent controls more lands than you, you may search your library for a Plains card, put it onto the battlefield, then shuffle your library.

I like that it can fetch non-basic plains.

[Lemnear]

Knight of the White Orchid - WW
Human Knight

First strike

When Knight of the White Orchid enters the battlefield, if an opponent controls more lands than you, you may search your library for a Plains card, put it onto the battlefield, then shuffle your library.

I like that it can fetch non-basic plains.

Reprint?

[MGB]

Reprint?

Now if only they would reprint Tendrils of Agony, Lotus Petal, Lion's Eye Diamond, and Dark Ritual in Standard. Then you would play in Standard-tournament, right? :smile:

[Lemnear]

Now if only they would reprint Tendrils of Agony, Lotus Petal, Lion's Eye Diamond, and Dark Ritual in Standard. Then you would play in Standard-tournament, right? :smile:

No, why would I? Whats the point here?

[theillest]

Reprint?

Ah, yeah. It's a direct reprint. initially I mistook it for a functional reprint. Nothing to see here...

[Cire]

I dont get it...

I haven't read astral slide in so long i forgot what it did :tongue:

[Vicar in a tutu]

http://i.imgur.com/BcYLXD4.png

Glowrider just turned into a flying horse.

[TsumiBand]

In fairness, Astral Slide should work with Opalescence, though I'm not certain that it's worth the 3-card combo to not insta-win. How much fun is it to Slide out a Parallax Wave with five abilities on the stack, though?!

[Lemnear]

http://i.imgur.com/BcYLXD4.png

Glowrider just turned into a flying horse.

Evasive Glowrider! Wooooo! #MoreThalia #DreadOfNight #NotSoWooooo

[iamajellydonut]

4*Thalia
4*Horse

Win the war?

[Lemnear]

4*Thalia
4*Horse

Win the war?

Seriously, horses, pegasi and shit need the keyword "mount" on them, basically attaching to other creature :)

[Barook]

http://i.imgur.com/BcYLXD4.png

Glowrider just turned into a flying horse.
Unlike Glowrider, this is actually playable since it doesn't suck completely in combat thanks to evasion.

It's also notable that you can stack the tax effect because it isn't legendary, unlike Thalia. :3: or higher taxes isn't that impossible now.

Shut up, woman (http://i.tcgplayer.com/57621.jpg), get on my horse:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWFBqiUgspg

[MGB]

Seriously, horses, pegasi and shit need the keyword "mount" on them, basically attaching to other creature :)

Maybe re-keyword "Horsemanship" to more accurately reflect the meaning of the word?

[Gheizen64]

http://i.imgur.com/BcYLXD4.png

Glowrider just turned into a flying horse.

Is this actually playable? Glowrider sucks dicks, but this having flying is really relevant:

- block Delver
- avoid TNN as well as Goyf, Tasigur, every single elf ever printed, Pyromancer tokens and monastery tokens.

The 3 mana is a big deal because it won't always come down before SnT. I think it will see marginal play.

[MGB]

Is this actually playable? Glowrider sucks dicks, but this having flying is really relevant:

- block Delver
- avoid TNN as well as Goyf, Tasigur, every single elf ever printed, Pyromancer tokens and monastery tokens.

The 3 mana is a big deal because it won't always come down before SnT. I think it will see marginal play.

Was the presence of fatties like Goyf and co. the main reason Glowrider was never played in Legacy?

[Holiday]

@Barook you had to pick the 10 hour version didn't ya? I didn't even click play it's already stuck in my head...

[Gheizen64]

Was the presence of fatties like Goyf and co. the main reason Glowrider was never played in Legacy?

Glowrider was essentially a Thalia that costed 1 more and couldn't attack nor block. But this can attack and carry equips really fine. It still can't block but it's still leagues better than Glowrider.

[mrjumbo03]

Glowrider was essentially a Thalia that costed 1 more and couldn't attack nor block. But this can attack and carry equips really fine. It still can't block but it's still leagues better than Glowrider.

It can trade with Delver and that's really big.

[Gheizen64]

It can trade with Delver and that's really big.

Yeah sure, i meant more "can block and survive" like thalia can, but it still trade obviously.

[HdH_Cthulhu]

It can trade with Delver and that's really big.

Yup give this horse an equipment and youll be fine! I like the angle stompy manacost!

[Barook]

Is this actually playable? Glowrider sucks dicks, but this having flying is really relevant:

- block Delver
- avoid TNN as well as Goyf, Tasigur, every single elf ever printed, Pyromancer tokens and monastery tokens.

The 3 mana is a big deal because it won't always come down before SnT. I think it will see marginal play.
S&T never was a major problem for D&T (I expect Omnitell to become less viable again once DTT is banned).

It most likely has a spot in D&T (in what numbers is yet to be seen). Maverick with mana dorks would also be a potential candidate, but I'm not sure if it would fit.

[H]

I've actually played Glowrider in Death and Taxes before, out of the sideboard when my meta got heavily combo-centric. The effect of Thalia into Glowrider was great, the 2/1 body was not. This having flying is pretty huge, honestly.

I will probably test 2 main and 1 sideboard when I can get my hands on some. This card is definitely playable, just the numbers need to be worked out.

[Ace/Homebrew]

Goblin Piledriver will be entering the Modern card pool.
That seems fun. :laugh:

[Barook]

A resistor effect - on a horse? That makes alot more sense now...

http://www.lurkmore.com/w/images/9/98/Stallion.jpg

Edit: Piledriver is back. :confused:

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/attachments/140/377/635709079968501158.png

This one should be interesting in Elves, especially with Symbiote bounce:

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/attachments/140/381/635709080787724153.png

[ReAnimator]

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/attachments/140/381/635709080787724153.png

Well this thing certainly looks like a win con for Elves combined with Symbiote. You could potentially not even have to run NO or Hoof at all, just bounce this thing a bit while going off.

[sjmcc13]

Goblin Piledriver will be entering the Modern card pool.
That seems fun. :laugh:
well, now off to working on a modern goblins list...
still needs Lackey's though.

[Barook]

well, now off to working on a modern goblins list...
still needs Lackey's though.
Isn't Warchief more critical? Or is Goblin Chieftain enough?

Since they reprinted Sylvan Messenger, maybe they're going to reprint Goblin Ringleader as well?

[swoop]

Winstigator, man dont need no lackeys

[iamajellydonut]

Isn't Warchief more critical? Or is Goblin Chieftain enough?

An inability to develop an early-game is easily the biggest hole in the Goblins engine. Warchief is good, but he's replaceable.

[QBChaz]

Loads of Elves in Standard:

http://mythicspoiler.com/ori/cards/sylvanmessenger.jpg

[LeoCop 90]

Well, if they reprint sylvan messenger without reprinting goblin ringleader i will punch them in the face. Also, some new goblin would be cool because thay are just spoiling all the elves

[danyul]

http://i.imgur.com/5xgB7vYl.jpg

All the Elves players are having a party in the forest. Come join us!

[lyracian]

Goblin Piledriver will be entering the Modern card pool.
That seems fun. :laugh:
Together with Rabblemaster it will make Goblins fun in Standard for a few months. Hopefully he can have some impact on Modern.

The Life-drain Elf looks like it could work as alternative finisher for Elves if you can not attack (Bridge, Moat, Peacekeeper).

[MGB]

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/attachments/140/381/635709080787724153.png

Well this thing certainly looks like a win con for Elves combined with Symbiote. You could potentially not even have to run NO or Hoof at all, just bounce this thing a bit while going off.

Man, that thing is just outrageous.

Since when did Elves need to get exponentially better? Is Craterderf just not good enough in Wizards' eyes?

[Ace/Homebrew]

Isn't Warchief more critical? Or is Goblin Chieftain enough?
As we're all aware, Modern isn't Legacy. :wink:

Modern Goblins will never get access to Wasteland or Rishadan Port style cards, so the controlling nature of the deck won't really be present.
Goblins in Modern is more strictly an aggro deck. An aggro deck which just got much better by having Piledriver. :cool:

I suspect the deck will strive to curve out in the following manner:
Non-Lackey 1 drop
Goblin Piledriver
Goblin Chieftain
Krenko, Mob Boss
...
Profit!

[H]

Why not play Warren Instigator?

[sjmcc13]

I suspect the deck will strive to curve out in the following manner:
Legion Loyalist
Goblin Piledriver
Goblin Chieftain
Krenko, Mob Boss
...
Profit!

Nothing wrong with giving Piledriver Trample and First Strike...

[Finn]

Shaman of the Pack is a frightening card. Elves typically does not have more than 5 in play when I keel over though. Are there decks using stuff like Ensnaring Bridge to fight them? Or Moat? When would this chick be better than craterhoofing? Are we talking Wirewood Symbiote tricks? Seems slow.

[Di]

These spoilers probably jump the price of Cavern of Souls further for Modern. Great. As if Elves needed any more help in the format anyway though despite the clash with Collected Company.

Piledriver is going to be lots of fun though, and hell you even have a few months in Standard (for those who give a shit) to use it with Rabble. Piledriver into Rabblemaster with Dragon Fodder and Hordeling Outburst backup will just be annoying.

[sjmcc13]

Why not play Warren Instigator?

Because it is no where near as good as lackey.
Lackey comes down on turn 1, so when it swings on turn 2 you normally only need to worry about 1 blocker if any, and goblins does run some removal so it can kill a 1 drop often enough. with instigator it does not swing until turn 3, so there are likely multiple blockers, and you need something to make it unblockable as they will not let it through.

You will still run it in Modern, but it is no where near as good as lackey.

[Admiral_Arzar]

Because it is no where near as good as lackey.
Lackey comes down on turn 1, so when it swings on turn 2 you normally only need to worry about 1 blocker if any, and goblins does run some removal so it can kill a 1 drop often enough. with instigator it does not swing until turn 3, so there are likely multiple blockers, and you need something to make it unblockable as they will not let it through.

You will still run it in Modern, but it is no where near as good as lackey.

That new Goblin that makes a guy unblockable when he ETBs seems strong with Instigator. I would almost play SSG for that turn one Instigator...there's just too much bolt in the format to make it worth it.

[Ace/Homebrew]

Why not play Warren Instigator?
That's the wrong question!
Why would Modern Goblins play Warren Instigator?

Here's some Goblin lists off TCDecks:
http://tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=17009&iddeck=127589
http://tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=16803&iddeck=125890
http://tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=16629&iddeck=124503 <- Actually runs 4 Winstigator
http://tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=16550&iddeck=123887

Those are the only entries for 2015...
Again, don't make the mistake of thinking Modern Goblins is a port of Legacy Goblins.

Regarding Legion Loyalist

Nothing wrong with giving Piledriver Trample and First Strike...
Agreed! But after looking through the lists above, I actually think Goblin Guide is currently the strongest 1 drop...
It is more likely to draw removal, plus your opponent is less likely to know what deck you are playing (could be Burn or U/R Delver).
That isn't to say you shouldn't be running both. :wink:

[Richard Cheese]

That new Goblin that makes a guy unblockable when he ETBs seems strong with Instigator. I would almost play SSG for that turn one Instigator...there's just too much bolt in the format to make it worth it.

If Modern is full of Bolts, is Mountainwalk pretty relevant? Goblin King could be the new Lord of Atlantis!

[rufus]

If Modern is full of Bolts, is Mountainwalk pretty relevant? Goblin King could be the new Lord of Atlantis!

I guess that extra :1: isn't a big deal in modern either.

[Scott]

I only see Vryn Wingmare doing anything in those Stoneforge/Angel/creature-centric Stax lists that occasionally pop up, because they're the only decks that might be excited about evasion tacked onto Glowrider, as those decks are always looking to connect with equipment and block delvers. Not many other decks take a second look at Glowrider, and flying probably won't change that.

[MGB]

These spoilers probably jump the price of Cavern of Souls further for Modern. Great. As if Elves needed any more help in the format anyway though despite the clash with Collected Company.


I still can't believe there were all of those Cavern of Souls lying around in local game stores for $12 a pop just a year ago (Jan-June 2014). Every time I saw one at that price I was like "How can such a good card with so many applications possibly be so cheap". I'm glad I bought as many as I could back then!

[bruizar]

Well, I don't know about you but Jace is extremely underpriced. I just bought out 16 and will probably buy more of them. There is _no_ way that Jace is cheaper than Nissa. Maybe I'm wrong but I'm putting my money on Jace. It's a 2 mana Jace with 4 abilities for christ sake. Did you guys know Punishing Fire is a card?

[Barook]

Well, I don't know about you but Jace is extremely underpriced. I just bought out 16 and will probably buy more of them. There is _no_ way that Jace is cheaper than Nissa. Maybe I'm wrong but I'm putting my money on Jace. It's a 2 mana Jace with 4 abilities for christ sake. Did you guys know Punishing Fire is a card?
Punishing Fire is banned in Modern.

And Flip-Jace in Legacy? Just nope.

[bruizar]

Punishing Fire is banned in Modern.

And Flip-Jace in Legacy? Just nope.

Last time I checked, Treasure Cruise was banned from legacy and that card required a larger graveyard than Jace.

EDIT:
Jace is the only Planeswalker that fulfills his own transform requirement
Jace has near complete control over when he flips. Tap -> flip, or smartly abuse the loot with punishing fire for the engine.

My prediction is, and I may be wrong, that Jace will be a 30 to 50 euro card and I wouldn't be surprised if it's going to be more.

The card has 3 card advantage abilities:

1) Loot digs and enables CA with graveyard cards like Punishing Fire-like cards
2) The recurring flashback is pure CA
3) Requires 5 damage for Jace to suffer, which likely means overextending creatures which exposes the player for boardsweepers -> CA

Oh, and the card costs 1U. That is Tibalt cost.

[kusumoto]

Last time I checked, Treasure Cruise was banned from legacy and that card required a larger graveyard than Jace.

EDIT:
Jace is the only Planeswalker that fulfills his own transform requirement
Jace has near complete control over when he flips. Tap -> flip, or smartly abuse the loot with punishing fire for the engine.


Isn't his only ability that is any good really just the flashback though? He seems like a slower, smaller, and more situational Snapcaster Mage with some other abilities that aren't very useful.

[bruizar]

Isn't his only ability that is any good really just the flashback though? He seems like a slower, smaller, and more situational Snapcaster Mage with some other abilities that aren't very useful.

I think you really underestimate the +2 and the loot. Those are two very fine abilities. Also, the flashback is not at all like Snapcaster Mage. Snapcaster Mage has flash and is a one-off effect. Jace has recurring sorcery speed flashbacks. I see why its tempting to make this mistake given that they are both 1U creatures that flashback, but giving flashback is not enough reason to make such an oversimplification. We don't compare Yawgmoth's Will to Snapcaster Mage either.

[Humphrey]

looting is slow and irrelevant
body is irrelevant
if you ever manage to flip it, its only useful ability is flashback every 3 turns. (its +1 only)

have you played competitive legacy lately?

[kusumoto]

I think you really underestimate the +2 and the loot. Those are two very fine abilities. Also, the flashback is not at all like Snapcaster Mage. Snapcaster Mage has flash and is a one-off effect. Jace has recurring sorcery speed flashbacks. I see why its tempting to make this mistake given that they are both 1U creatures that flashback, but giving flashback is not enough reason to make such an oversimplification. We don't compare Yawgmoth's Will to Snapcaster Mage either.

It's a +1 and it gives a creature -2/-0 for a turn. I think the question with the flashback ability on this guy is what you are flashing back and how often it is actually something that you wouldn't use a snapcaster for. Also, the flashback is -3 with a 5 starting loyalty and not so great +1 ability. You probably will only use it once. Snapcaster seems like the only thing that this guy would compete with in Legacy and Snapcaster seems better at it. That's why I draw the comparison.

I don't know about modern though.

[bruizar]

looting is slow and irrelevant
body is irrelevant
if you ever manage to flip it, its only useful ability is flashback every 3 turns. (its +1 only)

have you played competitive legacy lately?

I disagree. Sylvan Library and Dark Confidant are equally slow. Those are being played, but they don't flashback cards nor shrink creatures.

I admit that I may be completely off on this one but I'm willing to gamble €200 on 16 Jaces. I doubt Jace will get any lower than that EVEN if Cashcaster Mage may be better. The price discrepancy between Jace and Snapcaster Mage is larger than the powerlevel discrepancy. It may bite me in the long run but I'm going on record here to say Jace has a home in eternal magic. In many situations the +1 is better than Jace the Mindsculptor -1 (Obviously not against unfair decks -> MUD/Emrakul) since the loyalty gain ramps into flashback which means CA/sweepers so that you can continue to ramp into even more flashbacks.

EDIT:
I'm very close to saying that Jace is better than Snapcaster Mage, but for the sake of realism that would need to be tested first. My strong opinion is that Jace is the sleeper card this set.

[iamajellydonut]

I disagree. Sylvan Library and Dark Confidant are equally slow. Those are being played, but they don't flashback cards nor shrink creatures.

Sylvan Library provides exceptional card filter and can produce overwhelming card advantage completely on command.

Dark Confidant has a relevant set of legs and produces a continuous stream card advantage for every turn that he's allowed to live.

Jace is a Merfolk Looter that flips into a dumpy planeswalker that can be completely ignored.

[MGB]

Sylvan Library provides exceptional card filter and can produce overwhelming card advantage completely on command.

Dark Confidant has a relevant set of legs and produces a continuous stream card advantage for every turn that he's allowed to live.

Jace is a Merfolk Looter that flips into a dumpy planeswalker that can be completely ignored.

Careful, Jellydonut.

Remember how *down* you were on Treasure Cruise and Dig through Time when they were spoiled? And how skeptical you were of Jace, the Mind Sculptor during Worldwake spoiler season?

[bruizar]

Well, for what its worth, my speculation so far paid 4 years of university tuition and many vacations thus far :-)

[danyul]

Well, for what its worth, my speculation so far paid 4 years of university tuition and many vacations thus far :-)

Baller. You could scrub of every tournament from here until forever and you'd still be winning at this game. Well done.

[iamajellydonut]

Careful, Jellydonut.

Remember how *down* you were on Treasure Cruise and Dig through Time when they were spoiled? And how skeptical you were of Jace, the Mind Sculptor during Worldwake spoiler season?

Taurean Mauler 4 lyfe, man.

[bruizar]

Baller. You could scrub of every tournament from here until forever and you'd still be winning at this game. Well done.

Thanks :D This game has been rather generous to me.

[Gheizen64]

Yeah i think Jace will prove to be the best planeswalker of the bunch, again. Consider it a 2 mana planeswalker that has to use a +3 (draw/discard) as its first ability, then get 5 loyalty and can flashback for -3, give -2/-0 for +1 , and has an ultimate that sucks but w/e. Tbh if his +1 ability was only slightly better, i'd say he WILL get played in legacy. As it is, the -2-0 ability seems a bit too irrilevant, but maybe i'm underestimating him. Ironically, i think jace will prove better in older formats because the lower mana cost is much more crucial there, and getting 5 cards in the grave is much easier.

EDIT: forgot the flashback is basically sorcery speed... that make it significantly worse.

[HdH_Cthulhu]

what you said

Agreed!

If you have to compare a card to snapcastermage, you talk about a tier 1 card!

How is looting irrelevant? It feels like a mini cantrip, synergies with Top and helps to fill your gy.
How can you not flip him?
+1 is weak, the ulti is useless.
The starting loyalty 5 is great!
-3 has his pros and cons (prolly more cons). Now that you flipped him its 0 mana instead of 1U. But you cant counter anything so you basically have to stick with removals and cantrips...

He is really hard to evaluate (at least for me) ill just play some scenarios:

Who's better in the early game? If you dont have anything to do on turn 2, Jace is a legit drop and Snappy not. Thats a + for Jace but you really should have something to do, like play your counterbalance/decay something or whatever just do what your deck does...

Midgame? Snapcaster rocks the midgame! He is just faster, more flexible, less predictable etc... Snappy is a trick that helps you turn the game into your direction.

Whats the better topdeck? Snappy "does something" now. Jaces does nothing immediately . If you are under pressure you really want the snapy to do "something". On an even /slightly unfavourable board (lets say both players are in topdeck mode but a tarmo beats you) jace might be better. You let tarmo hit you for another turn, fix your next draw with the loot - flip - flashback your removal. A PW on an empty board should be better than a 2/1 vanilla.

tl;dr He might be ok!

[Humphrey]

lategame i play the real jace, thanks.

[ScottW]

Speculation on Legacy playables seems bad. Modern seems to drive the price of new cards. Liliana would be rather affordable if it was banned like JTMS. I think that's good news for us (Legacy players) since it helps keep prices reasonable with the exception of our file cabinet of $100+ staples (duals, FOW, LED, etc.).

[Dice_Box]

It's Modern Pro Tour season so the prices are higher than normal right now. Everything will calm down soon.

Legacy doesn't have this because it is not a Tour played format. God help us if it was. I don't actually know a single local Legacy player trying to get on the Pro Tour anyway so it's likely best this way.

[Jamaican Zombie Legend]

Not really too sure about Jace 6.0.

His planeswalker side looks nice, especially the high starting loyalty and the minus three ability. It's especially nice how the Recoup effect doesn't cost mana, so to speak, unlike Snappy who essentially "adds two" to the cost of every spell flashed back. Instants/Sorceries with CMCs of 2-4 can actually be recurred on a regular basis with this.

That said, his creature side blows. He's a 0/2, Legendary looter for 1U. He doesn't have haste, he dies to everything, he can't be a threat, and he can't block for crap. If he was a 0/3, a 1/2, or even a 2/1 (this is probably a little too OP) his critter side would be a lot better. As it stands now, you have to untap with him after having a fortuitous first two turns to get him online early. As a topdeck, he's seems pretty awful, given that he barely impacts the board and isn't ready for business until a turn later.

I predict next to zero, non-budget play in Modern, though Legacy may be a bit kinder to him because less decks are stuffed full of critter extermination spells like many (non-combo) Modern decks are. He might actually stand a chance of surviving instead of eating an Electrolyze or Kolaghan's Command. Zero idea of his Standard playability.

So I'm not entirely certain if he's a solid speculation target.

Now this guy...

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/attachments/140/392/635709578506900425.jpg


Harbinger of the Tides UU

Creature - Merfolk Wizard R

You may cast Harbinger if the Tides as though it had flash if you pay 2 more to cast it

When Harbinger of the Tides enters the battlefield, you may return target tapped creature an opponent controls to its owner's hand.

2/2

...looks like guaranteed fun, even if he's destined to be mostly a 1-of miser or sideboard material.

Also, screw Kytheon's Irregulars, a card that stands no chance of seeing serious constructed play (outside of hypercasual decks), yet will utterly ruin tons of Limited games in a totally unfun way. Why do these cards exist again?

[bruizar]

Modern does affect prices greatly, but remember cards like liliana were already expensive before modern took off. Legacy has a big influence on prices still. The best speculation targets are post rotation foil multiformat staples, like abrupt decay.

As mentioned before, the -3 will be useful for bigger spells than snapcaster because the mana is already paid. I think that jace plays a control role whereas snapcaster mage plays more of a surprise/value trick, like vendillion clique and bloodbraid elf.

http://i.tcgplayer.com/82431.jpg


Higher CC
Double loot
More irrelevant abilities (for legacy)
Doesn't protect itself
Less abilities
not legal in modern
Yet more expensive than jace
Foil price is due to Vintage (Dead format, yet still has impact)




Product Availability
Available items: 297
From (EX+): 23,85 €
Price Trend: 29,73 €
Available foils: 20
Foils from: 244,90 €

My standard knowledge is limited, but I think that Jace, Vryn's Prodigy + Ojutai's Command might be a thing. In those colors you can also play Narset Transcendent essentially doubling the output of your spells between flashback and rebound. Both start with extremely high loyalty too, but again I'm not a limited player.

Can someone check if Moonmist works?

[jrsthethird]

Seriously, horses, pegasi and shit need the keyword "mount" on them, basically attaching to other creature :)

They tried that. Didn't go over so well.

http://crystal-cdn3.crystalcommerce.com/photos/16360/medium/DavyDuwqN82hxVf4.jpg

[phonics]

To me, Jace is like a cantrip. He doesn't do anything amazing, but accrues small advantages, and he only costs 2 mana. I don't think his +1 is as bad as people think it is, it can buy a ton of time against things like delver, clique and other non aggro beats. For 2 mana he seems like a pretty good tool that helps control stabilize, he isn't super threatening like confidant, he 'nickles and dimes' advantages, which just might be good enough in a format like modern, where games are longer, and casting costs are higher.

I would say he is more like confidant than snapcaster, but the thing is confidant gives you an extra card a turn, I don't think Jace gives you that much value a turn.

But then again, note how bad Tibalt is for 2 mana, and how Jace is blue, is more splashable, and R&D can't help but print strong blue cards.

[jrsthethird]

Higher CC
Double loot
More irrelevant abilities (for legacy)
Doesn't protect itself
Less abilities
not legal in modern
Yet more expensive than jace
Foil price is due to Vintage (Dead format, yet still has impact)


Dack's 1st and 3rd abilities are better than Jace's respective ones in a vacuum, and his 2nd ability has a lot of incidental uses. It can even force 2CC+ spells through CounterTop. I really like this guy. Jace is not bad but I think this comparison isn't fair.


Can someone check if Moonmist works?

It works, if you want to kill your opponent's Jace.

Planeswalkers enter the battlefield with loyalty counters equal to the starting loyalty. If he's transformed without leaving the battlefield, he'll be a planeswalker with zero loyalty counters, and be placed in the graveyard due to state-based effects.


But then again, note how bad Tibalt is for 2 mana, and how Jace is blue, is more splashable, and R&D can't help but print strong blue cards.

T: Draw a card, and discard a card. If you have 5 or more cards in your graveyard, sacrifice this. If you do, destroy target Jace, the Mind Sculptor.

[bruizar]

I agree that the comparison to Dack Fayden isn't fair. I pointed out Dack Fayden because he has a vaguely similar ability and isn't driven by modern / standard prices. Phonics explained rather well the reasons why I'm bullish about Jace. Jace sticks incremental CA and card quality, Snapcaster doesn't stick.

[evanmartyr]

Shaman of the Pack is a frightening card. Elves typically does not have more than 5 in play when I keel over though. Are there decks using stuff like Ensnaring Bridge to fight them? Or Moat? When would this chick be better than craterhoofing? Are we talking Wirewood Symbiote tricks? Seems slow.

Like you said: Ensnaring Bridge, etc.

Also, and I'm way out of the loop with current Legacy decklists, but it can be Collected Company'd, so that may be relevant.

I think it's more relevant for Modern, where the option to do unfair things is really curtailed. No Cradle, no Glimpse, and no GSZ means Elves has to play a MUCH less exponential game.

I'm actually kind of curious about the 2/2 for 2 that poops out an elf token. Getting a +2 count on your elves for 2 mana, and can be re-used with Wirewood Symbiote, Cloudstone Curio, etc can do some fun and silly things with Heritage Druid. For example, the Nettle Sentinel + Heritage Druid + Glimpse of Nature is pretty key to elves in Legacy, yes? Well, now we can replace that with Cloudstone Curio and have a combo option similar to Splinter Twin.

[evanmartyr]

I agree that the comparison to Dack Fayden isn't fair. I pointed out Dack Fayden because he has a vaguely similar ability and isn't driven by modern / standard prices. Phonics explained rather well the reasons why I'm bullish about Jace. Jace sticks incremental CA and card quality, Snapcaster doesn't stick.

The flip walkers being non-optional flips really kills most of them for me. If you could choose to, or not, Jace would be way better. As it is, there are times you really want to dig but you're gonna flip him immediately and then he's gonna sit there and do not much before dying.

[bruizar]

The flip walkers being non-optional flips really kills most of them for me. If you could choose to, or not, Jace would be way better. As it is, there are times you really want to dig but you're gonna flip him immediately and then he's gonna sit there and do not much before dying.

Well, how fast will he actually die? If you flip him and +1, you send him to 6 loyalty. That means your opponent needs to hit Jace Telepath Unbound for 8. If your opponent can deal 8 damage he's not going for Jace Telepath Unbound, he's going for your face and you'll be happy that you can stop the bleeding with the +1 until you can flashback something like Firespout. I mention Firespout because it goes well with Punishing Fire and Jace, Vryn's Prodigy, but it could be any sweeper given that the mana cost is so perfectly splashable. Even flashbacking a Terminus is not that far-fetched because you already paid for Jace.

Retribution of the Meek, Perish/Nature's Ruin/Virtue's Ruin/Damnation, Supreme Verdict are all fine targets. But other cards like like Hymn to Tourach, Abrupt Decay, Swords to Plowshares or Dig Through Time should not be forgotten. Some of those are cards that become prohibitively expensive with Snapcaster Mage but not with Jace.

[Barook]

Retribution of the Meek, Perish/Nature's Ruin/Virtue's Ruin/Damnation, Supreme Verdict are all fine targets. But other cards like like Hymn to Tourach, Abrupt Decay, Swords to Plowshares or Dig Through Time should not be forgotten. Some of those are cards that become prohibitively expensive with Snapcaster Mage but not with Jace.
Or your opponent plays GY hate and you're just gimped with a -2/-0 bot. Snapcaster only became really cancerous in Modern after DRS was banned. And this is much slower, hence worse, since it's telegraphed in what happens.

It might be an arguably great card for Modern, but for Legacy, I fail to see the appeal over Snapcaster Mage, especially in control decks where it competes with JMS for board presence. If it had another PW type, then it might be debatable, but as it stands, there are just better cards that compete with it for slots.

[bruizar]

Well, the graveyard hate argument goes for Snapcaster Mage as well. Sure he's a 2/1 dude, but that's not going to make the big difference. You don't play Snapcaster Mage because you need a 2/1 body, you play snapcaster mage for the flashback, and instant speed flashback does make a difference. I also agree with you that it kind of sucks that Jace, Telepath Unbound is a Jace when you're planning to play with Jace the Mindsculptor. Legitimate arguments, Barook. I do think the pros outway the cons. Regardless of whether or not this card will see play, the power level and mana cost are high enough for it not to be a €12/€13 card so I'm feeling safe speculating on this.. As an aside, I don't even speculate for the money, I speculate because it's nice to say 'I told you so' in a world where too many opinions (including my own) drown signal with noise. Money is an objective measure of being 'right' in the world of card of evaluation :-).

Jace Telegraph is a nice nickname lol

[LeoCop 90]

i agree with bruizar on jace, i think he's quite powerful and his price could double or more.
The best comparison to me is with dark confidant. they are both creature that do nothing the turn they are cast, and then start giving you free card advantage.
Jace has a worse body and is vulnerable to graveyard hate, but confidant makes you pay life and doesn't have a defensive ability. Also jace gives you two effects the turn after you cast him (loot+ ability). I think he powerlevel of the two cards is close.

[Tokugawa]

http://www.iplaymtg.com/data/attachment/forum/201506/27/165810bswi4y5z008sditj.jpg.thumb.jpg

Since some Legacy Merfolks decks still have 1 Waterfront bouncer in it...this guy may worth a try.

[Darkenslight]

http://www.iplaymtg.com/data/attachment/forum/201506/27/165810bswi4y5z008sditj.jpg.thumb.jpg

Since some Legacy Merfolks decks still have 1 Waterfront bouncer in it...this guy may worth a try.

Relevant type, nice synergy with certain Merfolk lords, possible Flash for mid-combat shenanigans.

Probably a 1-of main in Merfolk, Stupid-good in Modern, has potential in standard.

[(nameless one)]

He's kinda 2 for 1. He can block via flash and remove an attacker out of combat. Sounds great in Limited too.

[thecrav]

If you're not playing Vial, I really like Harbinger as an Ambush Viper on steroids. I'll probably be trying at least 2.

[rufus]

If you're not playing Vial, I really like Harbinger as an Ambush Viper on steroids. I'll probably be trying at least 2.

He seems like he's got really good synergy with vial too.... and also Merfolk Reejery.

[sjmcc13]

He seems like he's got really good synergy with vial too.... and also Merfolk Reejery.
Glad I was not the only one to think this.

Will be getting 4 ASAP, just hope the pre-order price is not to high when I get paid Friday.

[Humphrey]

http://www.iplaymtg.com/data/attachment/forum/201506/27/165810bswi4y5z008sditj.jpg.thumb.jpg

Since some Legacy Merfolks decks still have 1 Waterfront bouncer in it...this guy may worth a try.

how to shuffle those cards?

[Barook]

how to shuffle those cards?
You don't - you use them as a playmat - or a table.

[evanmartyr]

Well, how fast will he actually die? If you flip him and +1, you send him to 6 loyalty. That means your opponent needs to hit Jace Telepath Unbound for 8...

I meant that if you could just use him as a looter, and leave him as a looter until you gave a shit about casting stuff from the graveyard, then he'd be better. Precisely the same with all the other flip walkers.

I foresee a number of games where you loot once or twice, he flips, then you lose because what you really wanted wasn't the -3, it was the filtering. I should have said "does nothing before YOU dying".

[bruizar]

I meant that if you could just use him as a looter, and leave him as a looter until you gave a shit about casting stuff from the graveyard, then he'd be better. Precisely the same with all the other flip walkers.

I foresee a number of games where you loot once or twice, he flips, then you lose because what you really wanted wasn't the -3, it was the filtering. I should have said "does nothing before YOU dying".

You are implicitly stating that merfolk looter is better than snapcaster mage. Would he be better with an optional flip? Yes. Are graveyards full of action in legacy? Also yes. Do understand that Brainstorm is usually best played as a sorcery spell, so the sorcery-speed planeswalker activation drawback comes up mostly when you're looking for counterspells. However, chances are if you're playing Ponders and Brainstorms from your graveyard, you can keep the ones you CAN play as an instant in your hand.

[evanmartyr]

Yeah, I'm not sure where all this extrapolation comes from. I flat out said that I think the flips should be optional. That's all.

Although he won't do nothing (5 cards in your graveyard you're likely to get use out of him at least once), he is a 2 mana investment that gives you a delayed snapcaster, with no surprise value, drops your creature count (so no extra advantage through combat is possible), and takes what...at least 4 turns to flashback two things at which point he dies. This assumes he takes no damage.

He's a very, very slow engine that isn't realistically, like JTMS, a win condition. Just kind of disappointing for Legacy, but what else is new.

[Humphrey]

why even argue? that card sucks in legacy. jace might be useful in standard though.

[TsumiBand]

I liked it more when people thought Kytheon was going into a deck. All this Jace talk is making me sleepy

[Dice_Box]

Just a quick news flash. Not every card printed in Blue ink is playable in Legacy.

[Rishadan]

Just a quick news flash. Not every card printed in Blue ink is playable in Legacy.

Pitches to force of will. 'Nuff said.

[Dice_Box]

*Eats humble pie and cry's by himself in the corner.*

[TsumiBand]

I suspect it was meant in jest, but honestly the phrase "pitches to Force" means about as much as "dies to removal". At this point, neither is a compelling reason to include or exclude a card from your list...

[Rishadan]

I suspect it was meant in jest, but honestly the phrase "pitches to Force" means about as much as "dies to removal". At this point, neither is a compelling reason to include or exclude a card from your list...

It was indeed a jest, you caught me. I know that pitching to force is almost if not already a meme to the legacy community, but you are right that there is more to it than simply inserting said blue card just because of force.

[rufus]

*Eats humble pie and cry's by himself in the corner.*

Is that misplaced apostrophe part of the meme?

[bruizar]

there needs to be some sort of combo with the new demonic tutor.. Perhaps a black fork in the future or something? Or a good way to flush black mana to red mana?
IF fork was a black card (imp's mischief, dash hopes, im looking at you):
At 7 mana (very steep i know)
Tutor+fork->fork->fork->fork->tutor->cabal ritual
Resolve first tutor ->tendrils

If you can flush mana, nivix guildmage allows you to cast a whole lot of tutors for cheap.
Pyromancer ascension works too but requires so much setup

Any other fork-type cards that cost 3 or less?

[sjmcc13]

Or a good way to flush black mana to red mana?

Skyshroud Elf
Blood Celebrant (costs 1 life per mana though)
Celestial Dawn
False Dawn
Sunglasses of Urza (+ something to flush it to white mana like Farrelite Priest)
Gemstone Array (though you need a way to reduce the cost as well)

Ya, nothing much there.

[rufus]

there needs to be some sort of combo with the new demonic tutor...

...


Have you considered an Iggy Pop shell with Intuition and Ill-Gotten Gains instead?

[Darkenslight]

New card spoiled:

Graveblade Predator :2: :b:
Creature - Human Warrior (r)
Deathtouch
When ~ deals combat damage to a player, that player loses life equal to the number of creature cards in your graveyard.
1/4

Interesting, but I think it's not quite there.

[bruizar]

Just in

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/71/945/635711393703261599.png

Slightly cheaper Cranial Extraction, but limited in its applications. I don't see it going anywhere in legacy given that Show and Tell will just drop Omniscience on you. Slaughter Games looks better. If you could target yourself you'd be able to play it in food chain, but alas. Due to the cost it's still somewhat attractive as it situationally almost reaches parity with Hymn to Tourach. I'm not sure if the can power creep these effects more before it becomes degenerate with Gitaxian Probe.



Skyshroud Elf
Blood Celebrant (costs 1 life per mana though)
Celestial Dawn
False Dawn
Sunglasses of Urza (+ something to flush it to white mana like Farrelite Priest)
Gemstone Array (though you need a way to reduce the cost as well)

Ya, nothing much there.

Skyshroud Elf works. Unfortunately, way too many hoops to jump through.


Have you considered an Iggy Pop shell with Intuition and Ill-Gotten Gains instead?

No, I haven't. What do you propose? My combo knowledge is sort of limited.

[ubernostrum]

Hallowed Moonlight: http://blogs.magicjudges.org/rulestips/2015/06/magic-origins-spoiler-hallowed-moonlight/

1W, instant, Containment Priest effect for a turn, cantrip.

(except unlike Priest, this one stops tokens, so it's also an anti-Twin card for Modern)

[Jamaican Zombie Legend]

Hallowed Moonlight might not be Legacy competitive, but damn...it's good design, giving non-Blue colors more ways to interact at Instant-speed with broken shit. More stuff in this vein would go a long way towards making non-Blue archetypes, that don't have broken pillars like Cradle, much more viable in Legacy.

[Echelon]

Hallowed Moonlight might not be Legacy competitive, but damn...it's good design, giving non-Blue colors more ways to interact at Instant-speed with broken shit. More stuff in this vein would go a long way towards making non-Blue archetypes, that don't have broken pillars like Cradle, much more viable in Legacy.

Or it just gets assimilated into anyDelver.dec. Stuff like this should be more aggressively costed, for instance at WW, BW or GW rather then 1W and so on. That would make it harder to run in the greedy anyDelver manabases and easier in the more land heavy (and maybe even 2-colour) decks.

[bruizar]

Haymaker time

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/71/948/635711449337328559.png

[Dice_Box]

Haymaker time

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/71/948/635711449337328559.png

I want to cast this so much, we do not need it... but I wanna....

[bruizar]

I want to cast this so much, we do not need it... but I wanna....

Ok I'm gonna be that guy.

Can be tutored with Grozoth

[Lightless]

http://blogs.magicjudges.org/rulestips/files/2015/06/0016_MTGORI_EN_HRR-215x300.png

Don't know if strictly better than priest, but it countered empty the warrens and Marit Lage as well.

[H]

Yeah, it is interesting that Hallowed Moonlight doesn't specify "nontoken creatures." I don't know that it makes it playable, but certainly more interesting to sat the least.

[Gheizen64]

Yeah, it is interesting that Hallowed Moonlight doesn't specify "nontoken creatures." I don't know that it makes it playable, but certainly more interesting to sat the least.

It's a modern hate card for twin i think as it's esssentially a timewalk against it (and CoCo). In legacy, it is nowhere as good because token producers are not combos, but steady producers (pyromancer, mentor). Had it said permanent, it would've been a pretty good tech card against omnitell, fetches and the like, maybe too good even (even though i don't think a 1W cantripping stifle would make white imba, it'd make tempo splashing W more of an option and anything that hose fetches is good in my book. Also don't forget that shadow of doubt still exist and counter fetches while cantripping and see 0 play at 2 mana).

Otoh, this could open for earthcraft unban?!?! It counter squirrel craft!

[Lightless]

because token producers are not combos

So thespian-depths and empty the warrens are not Combo? Please enlighten me ;)

[Barook]

The design is okay, but I prefer Containment Priest.

I don't think it's good vs Twin. You essentially need to keep 3 mana (1 tapped land EoT + :1::w: to cast it) open all the time to prevent them from going off one lousy turn. Even AD is better than that at stopping Twin. You aren't going to win the game like this.

[iamajellydonut]

Graveblade Predator :2: :b:
Creature - Human Warrior (r)
Deathtouch
When ~ deals combat damage to a player, that player loses life equal to the number of creature cards in your graveyard.
1/4

Interesting, but I think it's not quite there.

It's a terrible beater with no flavor and bad art. What's "interesting" about it?

[Tylert]

It's a terrible beater with no flavor and bad art. What's "interesting" about it?

You can buikld around this card... that's probably what he meant.
But I agree with you that it's not gonna be a card for legacy.

[Julian23]

I like how the new white Instant is a huge tempo loss for someone looking to put BS into play. Considering that SFM into Batterskull eats up two entire turns, I'd love to cast this AND draw a card. Only problem is that it's just too narrow to make it's way into sideboards. There are better heavy-hitters.

[rufus]

[ Stuff about dark petition in an Iggy Pop shell ]

No, I haven't. What do you propose? My combo knowledge is sort of limited.

Iggy Pop is an older combo deck that ran Ill-Gotten Gains as a combo engine. It's a precursor to ANT/Fetchland Tendrils decks.

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?3500-Deck-Iggy-Pop

With the right mana sources you should be able to loop Dark Petition -> Ill-Gotten Gains for storm count, and then finish with Tendrils of Agony. There's no mana washing required.

[iamajellydonut]

I like how the new white Instant is a huge tempo loss for someone looking to put BS into play. Considering that SFM into Batterskull eats up two entire turns, I'd love to cast this AND draw a card. Only problem is that it's just too narrow to make it's way into sideboards. There are better heavy-hitters.

Agreed. Value-wise it's phenomenal. I'd maybe even like it over Containment Priest against your darling Elves. But the truth is that the general applications are just too limited for it to actually see play. Akin to trying to use Teferi's Response in a deck that doesn't run manlands.

[Dice_Box]

... My Witch. My beautiful, cold, demonic pet. What has become of you?

[rufus]

Agreed. Value-wise it's phenomenal. I'd maybe even like it over Containment Priest against your darling Elves. But the truth is that the general applications are just too limited for it to actually see play. Akin to trying to use Teferi's Response in a deck that doesn't run manlands.

It messes with a lot of stuff: Entreat the Angels, Empty the Warrens, Batterskull, reanimator, sneak & show, Natural Order, Green Sun's Zenith, Birthing Pod, undying and persist, Aether Vial, Goblin Lackey, Dark Depths and Hunted Horror.

[T-101]

Sure, rufus, but how much of that stuff would we actually bring this in against?

Certainly against reanimator, and Show and Tell, but I don't think I'd like to keep up 2 mana against all that other stuff most of the time. Containment priest does the job just fine. You trade drawing a card for a 2/2 body that you can cast preemptively.

I think this is supposed to be a Modern legal spin on Containment Priest, and that's pretty much it.

[iamajellydonut]

It messes with a lot of stuff: Entreat the Angels, Empty the Warrens, Batterskull, reanimator, sneak & show, Natural Order, Green Sun's Zenith, Birthing Pod, undying and persist, Aether Vial, Goblin Lackey, Dark Depths and Hunted Horror.

It does, but it does so at a high personal cost. As Barook pointed out, having this thing in hand means that you need to more or less permanently leave two mana open in order to "counter" one of these infrequent effects. And, unfortunately, what you posted a was comprehensive list that still failed to be impressive even after it was embellished with filler. Listing off Birthing Pod and Goblin Lackey like they're relevant cards. Undying and Hunted Horror as though they have even been considered for a list. And why would anyone use this against Aether Vial and related effects? It's not like their Thalia gets exiled. They just choose not to put anything into play when the ability resolves.

This card's application narrow. So is Containment Priest, but at least with the Priest you can free up your mana by sticking it EOT for a decent clock and stall.

[Lemnear]

It messes with a lot of stuff: Entreat the Angels, Empty the Warrens, Batterskull, reanimator, sneak & show, Natural Order, Green Sun's Zenith, Birthing Pod, undying and persist, Aether Vial, Goblin Lackey, Dark Depths and Hunted Horror.

It's cute that you list effects like Lackey and Vial where your opponent can choose to not put things into play after the spell resolved and you think a 2cc reactive card can catch EtW

[ReAnimator]

NEW MULLIGAN RULE;

103.4. Each player draws a number of cards equal to his or her starting hand size, which is normally seven. (Some effects can modify a player’s starting hand size.) A player who is dissatisfied with his or her initial hand may take a mulligan. First, the starting player declares whether or not he or she will take a mulligan. Then each other player in turn order does the same. Once each player has made a declaration, all players who decided to take mulligans do so at the same time. To take a mulligan, a player shuffles his or her hand back into his or her library, then draws a new hand of one fewer cards than he or she had before. If a player kept his or her hand of cards, those cards become the player’s opening hand, and that player may not take any further mulligans. This process is then repeated until no player takes a mulligan. (Note that if a player’s hand size reaches zero cards, that player must keep that hand.) Then, beginning with the starting player and proceeding in turn order, any player whose opening hand has fewer cards than his or her starting hand size may scry 1.


!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[iamajellydonut]

NEW MULLIGAN RULE;

103.4. Each player draws a number of cards equal to his or her starting hand size, which is normally seven. (Some effects can modify a player’s starting hand size.) A player who is dissatisfied with his or her initial hand may take a mulligan. First, the starting player declares whether or not he or she will take a mulligan. Then each other player in turn order does the same. Once each player has made a declaration, all players who decided to take mulligans do so at the same time. To take a mulligan, a player shuffles his or her hand back into his or her library, then draws a new hand of one fewer cards than he or she had before. If a player kept his or her hand of cards, those cards become the player’s opening hand, and that player may not take any further mulligans. This process is then repeated until no player takes a mulligan. (Note that if a player’s hand size reaches zero cards, that player must keep that hand.) Then, beginning with the starting player and proceeding in turn order, any player whose opening hand has fewer cards than his or her starting hand size may scry 1.


!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wait, is this for fucking real?

[ReAnimator]

http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/news/changes-starting-pro-tour-magic-origins-2015-06-29

It's only going to be implemented for the PT but will then be judged for everyone else.

[QBChaz]

It's a terrible beater with no flavor and bad art. What's "interesting" about it?

It is interesting because it is a strong early blocker and then when you turn the corner and beat face with it it will hit hard. Not for Legacy though.

[Cire]

1) New Mulligan Rule - :eek:

Edit: Rule isn't official YET. This rule change will be tested at PT: Origins. After that, it will be decided if they continue with it...

2)

http://i.imgur.com/I0R0sgi.png

With LFTL?

[QBChaz]

You trade the difficult upfront cost of Seismic Assault for having a mana on the activation cost. Not strictly better but worth considering perhaps.

[QBChaz]

And WTF on the mulligan rule!

[iamajellydonut]

God damn. I just read the article. While I do generally support the notion of reduced variance, altering the mulligan rule is not the way to go. Not only is it a crude solution, but a mulligan is supposed to be punishment.


http://i.imgur.com/I0R0sgi.png

With LFTL?

Playable as fuck.

[Dice_Box]

1) New Mulligan Rule - :eek:

Edit: Rule isn't official YET. This rule change will be tested at PT: Origins. After that, it will be decided if they continue with it...

2)

http://i.imgur.com/I0R0sgi.png

With LFTL?

Yes. Oh god yes.

New rule? FUCKING REALLY? I MEAN REALLY? THE HELL IS THIS? "And our last bit of news, players of a card game know as "Magic" can now trade in cards to have judges of the game whip their asses for them. We will have more in the next bulletin in an hour"

[theillest]

http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/news/changes-starting-pro-tour-magic-origins-2015-06-29

It's only going to be implemented for the PT but will then be judged for everyone else.
Of much less consequence, they also announced field formatting. Players need to put their non land permanents in front of lands and nothing can be behind lands. Players who put their lands in front of their field were always highly suspect imo.

[iamajellydonut]

Players need to put their non land permanents in front of lands and nothing can be behind lands. Players who put their lands in front of their field were always highly suspect imo.

Them shady grandpas.

[swoop]

the new hoser works like a charm for aluren. no hose for you hoser!

[presquepartout]

It should be noted that layout changes are only in effect on camera at a Professional Level event (GP, PT, WMC, WC), though I would imagine that SCG will follow. I don't know exactly how they're going to enforce the graveyard must be adjacent to the library clause if Dredge is on camera at GP Lille...

[ReAnimator]

Of much less consequence, they also announced field formatting. Players need to put their non land permanents in front of lands and nothing can be behind lands. Players who put their lands in front of their field were always highly suspect imo.

Highly suspect? Try old school, look at the old rule books, they told you to put your lands that way in the A,B,U and possibly revised, rule book. When i was playing in the 90's literally everyone played that way for years and years.

[iamajellydonut]

the new hoser works like a charm for aluren. no hose for you hoser!

The creatures are still considered "cast".

[Dice_Box]

The creatures are still considered "cast".
... Reread his post man.

[iamajellydonut]

... Reread his post man.

Reread it. I apparently have no idea what he's talking about.

[swoop]

the best deck in the world will continue with its domination

squee goes up

squee goes down

[rufus]

Does Molten Vortex + Land Tax work or is it too slow? Seems like an obvious thing to consider for aggro-loam decks too.

[Gheizen64]

The vortex suffer from costing :r: ironically, because you can't play it in conjunction with Chalice. Had it costed :r::r: with a :1: activation it would've been much more playable in this format. But it's still a good card that help reduce variance for red significantly for a relatively low cost in non-eternal formats.

A new interesting artifact that fork red instant and sorceries was also spoiled, and it cost 5 and tap for :r:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CIrUgSoUAAAL0I5.jpg

Fork Wildfires boys! It could be playable in vintage with shops (copying ... what?), not sure about other formats.

[H]

The effect: :smile:
The CMC: :cry:

I just want to hilariously cast Fork with that thing...

[Varal]

I wonder if players will still be allowed to flip their Quirion Ranger to indicate they've used it.

[Lemnear]

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/attachments/140/487/635711676597425047.png

Oh, I really like that one

[Dice_Box]

Oh, I really like that one

Yea, that's going to do something fun. Sword, Foundry... Me thinks this could be interesting.

[Barook]

Unlike Coastal Piracy and friends, it can only draw one card total per attack phase, though. I only noticed it after reading twice.

[H]

If that Spy Network had a CMC 3, I think it would see play in Vintage. At 4? I just don't think so, unfortunately.

[rufus]

The effect: :smile:
The CMC: :cry:

I just want to hilariously cast Fork with that thing...

I think it would be better to use it for Epic Experiment in a deck full of forks. (In modern you could have Increasing Vengeance, Howl of the Horde,Reiterate,Reverberate and Twincast.)

[rufus]

Unlike Coastal Piracy and friends, it can only draw one card total per attack phase, though. I only noticed it after reading twice.

Two with first strike or double strike, right?

[Richard Cheese]

Highly suspect? Try old school, look at the old rule books, they told you to put your lands that way in the A,B,U and possibly revised, rule book. When i was playing in the 90's literally everyone played that way for years and years.

Pretty sure it's in Revised too. That's when I started playing and it took me forever to start playing with lands in the rear when I came back to the game. I believe it was done that way to kind of symbolize the difference between the two planeswalkers and give their minions somewhere to fight. A battlefield, if you will.

[sjmcc13]

http://i.imgur.com/I0R0sgi.png

With LFTL?
I prefer Land's Edge, fine this can come down turn 1, but not needing the mana to activate it means you can just pitch at wil, with no need to keep red open.

Kind of want to play a Lands Tax/Lands edge deck with LftL and this now though.

[Barook]

Two with first strike or double strike, right?
How many artifact creatures are you running that have first/double strike?

[iamajellydonut]

Unlike Coastal Piracy and friends

Speaking of which, of all the terrible cards that EDH has hiked up in value, and I know this is a completely off-topic gripe, how are my stockpiled Coastal Piracies still only worth $0.29?

[H]

How many artifact creatures are you running that have first/double strike?

Obviously only the best one:
http://i.imgur.com/EglMVJx.jpg

[iamajellydonut]

1/1 triplestrike for days.

[ReAnimator]

I prefer Land's Edge, fine this can come down turn 1, but not needing the mana to activate it means you can just pitch at wil, with no need to keep red open.

Kind of want to play a Lands Tax/Lands edge deck with LftL and this now though.

Land's Edge can hit creatures now? how did we all miss that?

[Richard Cheese]

I prefer Land's Edge, fine this can come down turn 1, but not needing the mana to activate it means you can just pitch at wil, with no need to keep red open.

Kind of want to play a Lands Tax/Lands edge deck with LftL and this now though.

Please tell me you meant Seismic Assault...

[sjmcc13]

Please tell me you meant Seismic Assault... Yes, that is the card I was thinking of, my mind just went to an old Land Tax/lands edge deck a friend use to play back in the day for the name.

[lyracian]

Molten Vortex seems like a card somewhere between Flame Jab and Seismic Assault. Its activation cost makes it slower to use a hand full of lands but it does come down earlier possibly letting you control the board from the second turn. Casting cost also lets you have less red mana in the deck as you do not need triple red. If you are playing a Goyf deck being an Enchantment rather than Sorcery like Flame Jab gives you another card type for the yard.

Seismic Assault sees occasional play; I think this has potential it is weaker but easier to cast.

[Bobmans]

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/attachments/140/487/635711676597425047.png

Oh, I really like that one
It fits UB Tezzeret.

[TsumiBand]

Clearly the best change to the rules is the one about separating graveyard from exile. It's stupid as shit when people just 'tap' a pile of graveyard cards and go "oh derp it's exiled".

Lands-in-front is an old habit of mine that I've been meaning to break, and now I'm going to have another reason to do so. I don't even think about it, and I don't remember why I started doing it. Fneeeeh. I suppose the greater implication here is to reduce the propensity of onboard tricks getting people because their layout is unfamiliar? Or to make game states easier to assess for outsiders; I'm not a judge but it would probably bug me to have to figure out every game's unique little build-a-bear layouts just to figure out what's what.

[swoop]

You don't need to change it. It's only premier tournaments, and only video games.

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk

[Quizzlemanizzle]

NEW MULLIGAN RULE;

103.4. Each player draws a number of cards equal to his or her starting hand size, which is normally seven. (Some effects can modify a player’s starting hand size.) A player who is dissatisfied with his or her initial hand may take a mulligan. First, the starting player declares whether or not he or she will take a mulligan. Then each other player in turn order does the same. Once each player has made a declaration, all players who decided to take mulligans do so at the same time. To take a mulligan, a player shuffles his or her hand back into his or her library, then draws a new hand of one fewer cards than he or she had before. If a player kept his or her hand of cards, those cards become the player’s opening hand, and that player may not take any further mulligans. This process is then repeated until no player takes a mulligan. (Note that if a player’s hand size reaches zero cards, that player must keep that hand.) Then, beginning with the starting player and proceeding in turn order, any player whose opening hand has fewer cards than his or her starting hand size may scry 1.


!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sounds like a good change. Wonder if it would be better if it was Scry X so when you mulliganed to 4 you would Scry 3. Maybe that would make mulliganing too good if you are just looking for a specific hoser card that is not a Leyline.

[evanmartyr]

Molten Vortex seems like a card somewhere between Flame Jab and Seismic Assault. Its activation cost makes it slower to use a hand full of lands but it does come down earlier possibly letting you control the board from the second turn. Casting cost also lets you have less red mana in the deck as you do not need triple red. If you are playing a Goyf deck being an Enchantment rather than Sorcery like Flame Jab gives you another card type for the yard.

Seismic Assault sees occasional play; I think this has potential it is weaker but easier to cast.

Seems like a straight upgrade in 99% of situations from Flame Jab. Problem with comparing it to seismic assault is the red mana cost to activate...most turns that you're really dumping lands at your opponent's face, the easier cc isn't going to be truly easier, since you're locked into spending large amounts of red mana to do it anyway, and you're spending mana to cast Life from the Loam already. So, cheaper initially, but WAY more mana intensive and quite limiting in most situations. I suppose it is able to start plinking away 1-2 activations a turn earlier, and easier, though.

Like most new cards, seems much more relevant for Modern than Legacy/Vintage, although I am curious to see if it sees any play in Burn. It gives some hella reach, turning those shitty mountains into reasonable damage, and unlike Seismic Assault it's something you can "weave" into your earlier turns without missing out on too much, and it is likely a t1 must-counter, of which there are very, very few in Burn.

[QBChaz]

Seems like a straight upgrade in 99% of situations from Flame Jab.

On the draw it doesn't kill a T1 Delver. Or Llanowar Elves, Dryad Arbor, Mother of Runes or Goblin Welder. I think your 99% makes a good point but is a significant over-estimate.

[Vicar in a tutu]

http://i.imgur.com/owLm13m.png

Interesting! Set-bashing aside, I've been pleasently surprised by the number of cool cards in Origins.

[Darkenslight]

http://i.imgur.com/owLm13m.png

Interesting! Set-bashing aside, I've been pleasently surprised by the number of cool cards in Origins.

Does this go in Burn? It feels like it might have a spot or two.

[Humphrey]

Clearly the best change to the rules is the one about separating graveyard from exile. It's stupid as shit when people just 'tap' a pile of graveyard cards and go "oh derp it's exiled".

Lands-in-front is an old habit of mine that I've been meaning to break, and now I'm going to have another reason to do so. I don't even think about it, and I don't remember why I started doing it. Fneeeeh. I suppose the greater implication here is to reduce the propensity of onboard tricks getting people because their layout is unfamiliar? Or to make game states easier to assess for outsiders; I'm not a judge but it would probably bug me to have to figure out every game's unique little build-a-bear layouts just to figure out what's what.

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/attachments/75/821/635032490975821761.jpg

[Barook]

Scab-Clan Berserker :1::r::r:
Creature - Human Berserker
Haste, renown 1
Whenever an opponent casts a noncreature spell, if Scab-Clan Berserker is renowned, it deals 2 damage to that player.
2/2

3 mana is pushing it, but haste kinda compensates for that. Maybe not Legacy-playable, but an interesting card nonetheless.

Could also go well together with Eidolon.

[MrGlantz]

Does this go in Burn? It feels like it might have a spot or two.

If it had haste then sure. It doesn't so it kinda sucks.

It's a cool card, but its not strong.

[theillest]

Highly suspect? Try old school, look at the old rule books, they told you to put your lands that way in the A,B,U and possibly revised, rule book. When i was playing in the 90's literally everyone played that way for years and years.

If you want to drop trow to your ankles to take a leak at the urinal, be my guest.

[Darkenslight]

If it had haste then sure. It doesn't so it kinda sucks.

It's a cool card, but its not strong.

Yeah, it's not quite as insane as Swiftspear, but IMO, it's a possible play, because of the Prowess, as well as seeing more cards.

[Gheizen64]

http://i.imgur.com/owLm13m.png

Interesting! Set-bashing aside, I've been pleasently surprised by the number of cool cards in Origins.

Prowess on a non-haste, non evasion creature feel just useless. Sure you drop this, then ur opponent has a Goyf or a Tasigur, or a TNN in play and u basically just cantripped for :1::r:

Had it Menace instead of prowess, i think it would've been significantly better.

Sad because it's a pretty good card imho, 2 mana 2/1 that cantrip would've been insane 4-5 years ago. Nowadays... could see some play in Legacy, will probably see some in Modern. Merfolk can play a 2 mana 2/1 cantrip cause it has lords that give him evasion and stats.

Also, this is still worse than Snapcaster, a card that should've been red (thx WotC).

[Lemnear]

Scab-Clan Berserker :1::r::r:
Creature - Human Berserker
Haste, renown 1
Whenever an opponent casts a noncreature spell, if Scab-Clan Berserker is renowned, it deals 2 damage to that player.
2/2

3 mana is pushing it, but haste kinda compensates for that. Maybe not Legacy-playable, but an interesting card nonetheless.

Could also go well together with Eidolon.

a 3/3 Pyrostatic Pillar. Totally worth it #NoSarcasm #Like

[Bobmans]

Scab-Clan Berserker :1::r::r:
Creature - Human Berserker
Haste, renown 1
Whenever an opponent casts a noncreature spell, if Scab-Clan Berserker is renowned, it deals 2 damage to that player.
2/2

3 mana is pushing it, but haste kinda compensates for that. Maybe not Legacy-playable, but an interesting card nonetheless.

Could also go well together with Eidolon.
The first thing that comes to mind are 8moon decks.

[QBChaz]

Can anyone translate this for us?

http://mythicspoiler.com/ori/cards/discipleofthering.jpg

[colo]

1, exile instant/sorcery from your gy: choose -
- counter noncreature spell unless controller pays 2
- ~ gets +1/+1 until EOT
- tap target creature
- untap target creature

[QBChaz]

Thank you.

[Barook]

The first thing that comes to mind are 8moon decks.
Why 8-Moon decks? The first thing that comes into mind is running it alongside Eidolon for maximum fun police.


a 3/3 Pyrostatic Pillar. Totally worth it #NoSarcasm #Like
It does need to connect first to be useful, though. Good against creatureless/light-decks, pretty meh against creature-heavy decks.

[iamajellydonut]

Can anyone translate this for us?

Pretty sure the last word in her name is "Rings".

Could be wrong.

[rufus]

Pretty sure the last word in her name is "Rings".

Could be wrong.

"Ring" singular. I want to translate the name as "Student of the Ring", though someone who's more familiar with WotCs translation history will do better.

[Finn]

Molten Vortex might be the real deal. W/r Land Tax decks have issues getting to :r::r::r: for Seismic Assault because the Tax engine demands lots of basics, lots of white, and lots of red mana all at at once, which is why most of you have not faced one. This card effectively removes the Lots of Red part. The deck had a habit of winning big or losing to itself. It looks like Vortex allows it to set up faster and play proper card advantage control.

[frogczar]

Molten Vortex might be the real deal. W/r Land Tax decks have issues getting to :r::r::r: for Seismic Assault because the Tax engine demands lots of basics, lots of white, and lots of red mana all at at once, which is why most of you have not faced one. This card effectively removes the Lots of Red part. The deck had a habit of winning big or losing to itself. It looks like Vortex allows it to set up faster and play proper card advantage control.

Except for the whole :r: to activate each time. Seems pretty red intensive to me. Sadly. I'd love some parfait.

[QBChaz]

Molten Vortex might be the real deal. W/r Land Tax decks have issues getting to :r::r::r: for Seismic Assault because the Tax engine demands lots of basics, lots of white, and lots of red mana all at at once, which is why most of you have not faced one. This card effectively removes the Lots of Red part. The deck had a habit of winning big or losing to itself. It looks like Vortex allows it to set up faster and play proper card advantage control.

All that sounds like my kind of deck.

[Finn]

Except for the whole :r: to activate each time. Seems pretty red intensive to me. Sadly. I'd love some parfait.

Yeah, that is an issue. I agree. I still think it is much better though. You just can't call this a wincon. You had to play Lightning Bolts because the engine took so long to set up, and I bet you no longer have to. That's a big deal. I bet you could make the deck run at a high percentage of capacity with two red sources - just enough for Devastating Dreams. You could probably splash a third color in also since you can keep the mana so much easier now. With Land Tax, you can fairly well have just one basic and call the color supported. The parfait guys will probably be talking about this more, but Parfait looks nothing like this atm.

[Gheizen64]

Scab-Clan Berserker :1::r::r:
Creature - Human Berserker
Haste, renown 1
Whenever an opponent casts a noncreature spell, if Scab-Clan Berserker is renowned, it deals 2 damage to that player.
2/2

3 mana is pushing it, but haste kinda compensates for that. Maybe not Legacy-playable, but an interesting card nonetheless.

Could also go well together with Eidolon.

The haste singlehandely make this card worth trying, cause you can actually swing on a tapped board and then it's a 3/3 pillar which is pretty decent.

[rufus]

The haste singlehandely make this card worth trying, cause you can actually swing on a tapped board and then it's a 3/3 pillar which is pretty decent.

It's one-sided, which makes it much better than a pillar.

[Vicar in a tutu]

http://mythicspoiler.com/ori/cards/animistsawakening.jpg

Ramptastic!

[iamajellydonut]

Ramptastic!

This is a pretty ok set so far. It's missing anything even remotely related to a "staple", but at least it hasn't churned out "Big Dumb Mythic #37" yet.

[Finn]

That is an interesting card. The Spell Mastery part should be very easy to manage in a cantrip shell, but those decks run fewer lands. Perhaps it's a Loam card.

[Lemnear]

http://mythicspoiler.com/ori/cards/animistsawakening.jpg

Ramptastic!

This is totally filthy with the Cloudpost manabase. Edit: 12-post to be exact.

[Ace/Homebrew]

They 'fixed' Survival. :rolleyes:

Evolutionary Leap :1::g:

Enchantment
:g:, Sacrifice a creature: Reveal
cards from the top of your library
until you reveal a creature card.
Put that card into your hand and
each other card revealed this way
on the bottom of your library in a
random order.

[maharis]

This is totally filthy with the Cloudpost manabase. Edit: 12-post to be exact.

I thought so too, but by the time you can cast this card for a reasonable amount, couldn't you just Crop Rotate for Eye or GSZ for Titan?

If it was an instant, I think it would make a G splash in High Tide tempting... There is a Heartbeat of Spring/Early Harvest combo deck in Modern that could do an imitation of that.

Does Lands ever want to tap out at sorcery speed for this?

[iamajellydonut]

They 'fixed' Survival. :rolleyes:

Evolutionary Leap :1::g:

Enchantment
:g:, Sacrifice a creature: Reveal
cards from the top of your library
until you reveal a creature card.
Put that card into your hand and
each other card revealed this way
on the bottom of your library in a
random order.

buybuybuybuy

Edit: Heyooo! It got ok art!

[Dice_Box]

Does Lands ever want to tap out at sorcery speed for this?
I don't think so. It doesn't have me that excited but it is interesting.

[Gheizen64]

Feel more like Fixed Oath tbh since it sift ur deck. Should still be a decent card in modern, tad too slow for Legacy. Not even the original survival would be broken nowadays tbh...and this is like ten times worse.

[iamajellydonut]

Feel more like Fixed Oath tbh since it sift ur deck.

It has entirely unrelated functionality to either. It's just sheer fucking value out of sacrificing chaff.

[Lemnear]

I thought so too, but by the time you can cast this card for a reasonable amount, couldn't you just Crop Rotate for Eye or GSZ for Titan?

The card works alongside those and would not necessarily replace one or the other, but maybe replaces some of the fillers the deck usually runs. There is no conflict between Awakening, Titan and GSZ as they fuel each other and hitting Eye of Ugin or Emrakul is inevitable sooner or later and the deck struggles if key plays get countered just like MUD, so increasing redundancy is always a solution to that problem

[Lemnear]

They 'fixed' Survival. :rolleyes:

Evolutionary Leap :1::g:

Enchantment
:g:, Sacrifice a creature: Reveal
cards from the top of your library
until you reveal a creature card.
Put that card into your hand and
each other card revealed this way
on the bottom of your library in a
random order.

Urgh! It's the second motherfucking coming of Birthing Pod in Modern

[Ace/Homebrew]

Heyooo! It got ok art!

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/attachments/140/569/635712555573362772.png


It has entirely unrelated functionality to either. It's just sheer fucking value out of sacrificing chaff.
Or blocking creatures who were going to die anyway. :smile:

[Raystar]

They 'fixed' Survival. :rolleyes:

Evolutionary Leap :1::g:

Enchantment
:g:, Sacrifice a creature: Reveal
cards from the top of your library
until you reveal a creature card.
Put that card into your hand and
each other card revealed this way
on the bottom of your library in a
random order.

It's not Survival...it's Hermit Druid...insane card...

[MGB]

It's not Survival...it's Hermit Druid...insane card...

Except you need to play creatures to activate it, unlike Druid, which could be the only creature in your entire combo deck.

Although, Dryad Arbor + 10+ fetchlands + green sun's zenith? And then 4 of this card in a combo-ish build?

[Raystar]

Except you need to play creatures to activate it, unlike Druid, which could be the only creature in your entire combo deck.

Although, Dryad Arbor + 10+ fetchlands + green sun's zenith? And then 4 of this card in a combo-ish build?

exactly what I was thinking...

[Ace/Homebrew]

exactly what I was thinking...
So it finds the creature you wanted... but then what? The creatures that will win you the game still need to be cheated into play.

[Cire]

It's not Survival...it's Hermit Druid...insane card...

How? It puts the cards back to the library, not your graveyard?

Also:

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/attachments/140/567/635712542458856263.png

This is pretty cool - in legacy its 4 mana, and you play the best two spells your opponent has in the top 7 cards of his/her library. That's decent value.

[Ace/Homebrew]

This is pretty cool - in legacy its 4 mana, and you play the best two spells your opponent has in the top 7 cards of his/her library. That's decent value.
Four mana to Ponder and then Brainstorm? :confused:

[Raystar]

So it finds the creature you wanted... but then what? The creatures that will win you the game still need to be cheated into play.

nope....it doesn't find anything but it stacks your deck....

[Cire]

nope....it doesn't find anything but it stacks your deck....

It's all put back randomly


Four mana to Ponder and then Brainstorm? :confused:

Dream bigger - 4 mana for a Delve Through Time and Cunning Wish :tongue:

[Raystar]

nope....it doesn't find anything but it stacks your deck....

I'm an idiot and should read the card...

[Ace/Homebrew]

Evolutionary Leap :1::g:

Enchantment
:g:, Sacrifice a creature: Reveal
cards from the top of your library
until you reveal a creature card.
Put that card into your hand and
each other card revealed this way
on the bottom of your library in a
random order.

[Gheizen64]

Except you need to play creatures to activate it, unlike Druid, which could be the only creature in your entire combo deck.

Although, Dryad Arbor + 10+ fetchlands + green sun's zenith? And then 4 of this card in a combo-ish build?

It's useless it just shuffle ur library dude.

Also i think Pod is better than this new survival. Ability to tutor + cheat mana costs. This is like... just a cycler for ur creatures basically.

[Cire]

Hmmm. . . . what if their are any good token producing creatures . . . that's one way to get CA out of this card? The trick is though to play token producers that are still somewhat decent.

Lingering Souls? One card can get you up to 4 random creatures from your deck?

Or you can play bad cards like Doomed Traveler? Probably not - you need to stick to quality creatures, or token producers like Lingering souls. . .

[HdH_Cthulhu]

Does Lands ever want to tap out at sorcery speed for this?

I doubt it... Ironically you don't have a lot of mana.

______________


You could sac pyro tokens or pyro if they kill pyro to search pyro.

[maharis]

Evolutionary Leap is interesting vs. Terminus, which gives it some points, but is so narrow elsewhere and so toothless vs. any combo deck that I can't think of a reason to play even one in 75. If it did one of these things:

-self-milled
-let you stack your deck
-let you tutor

Maybe. too bad though, there was an opportunity to do something cool here.

[phonics]

Its clear that they were so afraid that Evolutionary Leap might be good that they tried their best to make it bad. Requires creatures in play instead of in hand like sotf, off the top instead of tutor, put on the bottom of library instead of exile/ graveyard.

[rufus]

I thought so too, but by the time you can cast this card for a reasonable amount, couldn't you just Crop Rotate for Eye or GSZ for Titan?
...

Animists' Awakening circumvents CIPT, and works with Amulet of Vigor since the lands come into play tapped, and are then untapped. That creates some silly possibilities with the Ravnica lands and maybe the hideaway lands.

[iamajellydonut]

Its clear that they were so afraid that Evolutionary Leap might be good that they tried their best to make it bad. Requires creatures in play instead of in hand like sotf

It's worth noting that the above isn't necessarily a terrible thing.

[Cire]

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/attachments/140/571/635712560921077621.png

Not great - but another black two drop that can return itself. Does Pox care about this?

[iamajellydonut]

Does Pox care about this?

Considering Pox is unlikely to have >1 creatures in their graveyard, probably not. That being said, the struggles of Pox go far beyond the quality of their undying zombie bear.

[joven]

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/attachments/140/571/635712560921077621.png

Not great - but another black two drop that can return itself. Does Pox care about this?

It technically doesn't return itself, it needs two helpers for that, IMO a high cost. Looks a bit like Skaab Ruinator to me.

[PirateKing]

Despoiler of Souls

Eh, :b::b: and two creatures? Considering we already have Ichorid , Bloodghast & Nether Spirit , not really a contender.

[Blastoderm]

Animists' Awakening circumvents CIPT, and works with Amulet of Vigor since the lands come into play tapped, and are then untapped. That creates some silly possibilities with the Ravnica lands and maybe the hideaway lands.

Also notable is that it finds Tolaria West and is then bounced if you also happen to find a Rav land.

[Megadeus]

Iactually am really liking this set. It has a lot of cards that idon't necessarily think are good,but are at least interesting to try out in modern/legacy