[Primer] R/G Lands

[CovenantElite30]

I just told you my experience and the matchups. Two comments up, i mention 3 in the board. I'm not about feels, pick up 3 copies and play 100 games in your meta.
You are basically correct. Grindy matchups and mirror. I wouldn't bother bringing tracker in against jund. Our game plan shits on it so hard they need a wetnap post board.

My apologies I missed that part of your response.

[Cfetchcaviar]

My apologies I missed that part of your response.

I recently top 8 a gpt with the list I posted. Anyone going to Columbus?

[gigapatrick]

I recently top 8 a gpt with the list I posted. Anyone going to Columbus?

Again, I'm gonna try to make it to the Legacy Classic in Columbus, since it's the closest big tournament to me until SCG decides to come to Cincinnati again.

[Cfetchcaviar]

Again, I'm gonna try to make it to the Legacy Classic in Columbus, since it's the closest big tournament to me until SCG decides to come to Cincinnati again.

Fuck yeah. Also, care package inbound

[gigapatrick]

Fuck yeah. Also, care package inbound

Sweet. I quit smoking cigarettes four years ago, and coffee has been my good, good friend ever since.

[barcode]

Anyone going to Columbus?

I was locked to go as soon as they announced it. :) Same goes for Eternal Weekend.

[UnsungHero]

I'm going to the GP as well. Will be rocking my Source playmat!

[hyp3r1on]

Third. Will be at the GP all weekend.

[Cfetchcaviar]

Looks like others were onto the tireless tracker+decay plan in the mocs :):)

[jarvisyu]

Looks like others were onto the tireless tracker+decay plan in the mocs :):)

Lantto apparently talked to Daryl Ayers (who also played the MOCS last year, and is also a LandsFan).

His list looks pretty solid, and I frankly do agree that Tracker makes a lot of sense going forward.

[Goose]

Looks like others were onto the tireless tracker+decay plan in the mocs :):)

Do you guys happen to have a link to a list? Recently put the deck together and getting to play it for the first time next weekend which I'm super excited about. Not yet completely sure of what configuration I'm going to start with.

[gigapatrick]

Do you guys happen to have a link to a list?

Here's a link (http://magic.wizards.com/en/events/coverage/mtgochamp15/legacy-decklists)to the lists in the tournament. Lantto's is among them.

Similar to Ayer's 5-0 League list, in that it splashes black only for board options. Seems like too few black sources to me, though.

[Chatto]

Here's a link (http://magic.wizards.com/en/events/coverage/mtgochamp15/legacy-decklists)to the lists in the tournament. Lantto's is among them.

Similar to Ayer's 5-0 League list, in that it splashes black only for board options. Seems like too few black sources to me, though.

I would try to add either one extra fetch or, even better, one extra Bayou. Still, he did made the online championship, so I guess it works :smile:

[Jaytron]

Is the list here: http://www.gatheringmagic.com/author/JarvisYu/

still a good stock RG starting point?

My meta is super fair with DnT/Delver/Eldrazi around.. Kinda want to send some 20/20's at people's faces.

[filln]

Is the list here: http://www.gatheringmagic.com/author/JarvisYu/

still a good stock RG starting point?

My meta is super fair with DnT/Delver/Eldrazi around.. Kinda want to send some 20/20's at people's faces.

If you're referring to this list http://www.gatheringmagic.com/jarvisyu-120115-legacy-lands-primer/, it still looks pretty good except for the Horizon Canopy, which I don't think very many people play anymore. Probably would replace with another Tranquil Thicket or maindeck Bojuka Bog, depending on your meta.

[CovenantElite30]

Question for the group, I'm looking to try to play 2 manabond main I went down to 3 exploration to fit the extra manabond in.

Is this optimal or should I try to cut something else and play the 4 exploration and 2 manabond?

[Lord_Mcdonalds]

The 4th exploration is definitely better then the 2nd manabond.

What does the rest of your list look like?

[CovenantElite30]

The 4th exploration is definitely better then the 2nd manabond.

What does the rest of your list look like?


My list is weird as I'm trying to hedge against my local meta. Any suggestions to this list is more then welcome along with sideboard help.
My local meta is lots of D&T, Burn and Miracles.


27 Spells:
4 Crop Rotation
4 Gamble
3 Exploration
2 Manabond
4 Mox Diamond
4 Life from the Loam
2 Punishing Fire
1 Molten Vortex
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Ancient Grudge

34 Lands:
1 Bojuka Bog
4 Dark Depths
1 Forest
1 Glacial Chasm
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
3 Maze of Ith
4 Rishadan Port
1 Bayou
2 Taiga
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
4 Thespian's Stage
1 Tranquil Thicket
4 Wasteland
1 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Misty Rainforest

Sideboard:
2 Chalice of the Void
2 Choke
1 Karakas
2 Krosan Grip
2 Sphere of Resistance
3 Dark Confidant
1 Primeval Titan
1 Courser of Kruphix
1 Zuran Orb

[Lord_Mcdonalds]

Would cut the ancient grudge, it's alright against miracles (sometimes you get them with it) but hardly seems to be enough (and also useless under counterbalance-lock), it's not going to do a whole lot against burn and D&T is already a favorable MU and hardly worth any maindeck tech imo.

[Cfetchcaviar]

My list is weird as I'm trying to hedge against my local meta. Any suggestions to this list is more then welcome along with sideboard help.
My local meta is lots of D&T, Burn and Miracles.

Dude. 4 exploration, no exceptions. Ditch grudge, 4 fire. Bog side, karakas main. Boseiju somewhere in here

Bye Bob, hello tireless tracker.

27 Spells:
4 Crop Rotation
4 Gamble
3 Exploration
2 Manabond
4 Mox Diamond
4 Life from the Loam
2 Punishing Fire
1 Molten Vortex
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Ancient Grudge

34 Lands:
1 Bojuka Bog
4 Dark Depths
1 Forest
1 Glacial Chasm
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
3 Maze of Ith
4 Rishadan Port
1 Bayou
2 Taiga
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
4 Thespian's Stage
1 Tranquil Thicket
4 Wasteland
1 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Misty Rainforest

Sideboard:
2 Chalice of the Void
2 Choke
1 Karakas
2 Krosan Grip
2 Sphere of Resistance
3 Dark Confidant
1 Primeval Titan
1 Courser of Kruphix
1 Zuran Orb

[The_Dingo]

My list is weird as I'm trying to hedge against my local meta. Any suggestions to this list is more then welcome along with sideboard help.
My local meta is lots of D&T, Burn and Miracles.


27 Spells:
4 Crop Rotation
4 Gamble
3 Exploration
2 Manabond
4 Mox Diamond
4 Life from the Loam
2 Punishing Fire
1 Molten Vortex
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Ancient Grudge

34 Lands:
1 Bojuka Bog
4 Dark Depths
1 Forest
1 Glacial Chasm
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
3 Maze of Ith
4 Rishadan Port
1 Bayou
2 Taiga
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
4 Thespian's Stage
1 Tranquil Thicket
4 Wasteland
1 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Misty Rainforest

Sideboard:
2 Chalice of the Void
2 Choke
1 Karakas
2 Krosan Grip
2 Sphere of Resistance
3 Dark Confidant
1 Primeval Titan
1 Courser of Kruphix
1 Zuran Orb

If DnT is a concern then you should max out on punishing fires, since it's easily the best card against that deck. I would say drop grudge in favor of another decay, and I would never leave home without a 4th exploration in general.

to make room I would recommend cutting at least one manabond, the 4th depths (just my opinion), grudge, vortex, and bog (unless you think you need it)

-1 molten vortex
-1 grudge
-1 depths
-1 bog
-1 mana bond

+2 punishing fire
+1 exploration
+1 grove of the burn willows
+1 abrupt decay

this is pretty close to the list I've been playing recently, and it feels quite solid.

[CovenantElite30]

If DnT is a concern then you should max out on punishing fires, since it's easily the best card against that deck. I would say drop grudge in favor of another decay, and I would never leave home without a 4th exploration in general.

to make room I would recommend cutting at least one manabond, the 4th depths (just my opinion), grudge, vortex, and bog (unless you think you need it)

-1 molten vortex
-1 grudge
-1 depths
-1 bog
-1 mana bond

+2 punishing fire
+1 exploration
+1 grove of the burn willows
+1 abrupt decay

this is pretty close to the list I've been playing recently, and it feels quite solid.
I like the changes. How should I hedge against burn? That's why I was playing the 2 manabond and 4 dark depths main to combo faster.

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[CovenantElite30]

Also I'm planning on playing 3 tireless trackers in the side in place of Bob. Would you guys bring in tireless tracker vs D&T?

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[Cfetchcaviar]

Also I'm planning on playing 3 tireless trackers in the side in place of Bob. Would you guys bring in tireless tracker vs D&T?

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tracker seems fine against dnt.

[CovenantElite30]

Got my A$$ kicked yet again round 1 vs burn. Brought in 2 sphere, 2 chalice, 1 zuran, 1 courser. Took out 4 wasteland, 1 karakas, 1 tranquil. Is this correct?

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[Cfetchcaviar]

Got my A$$ kicked yet again round 1 vs burn. Brought in 2 sphere, 2 chalice, 1 zuran, 1 courser. Took out 4 wasteland, 1 karakas, 1 tranquil. Is this correct?

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you want to keep some number of wastelands to waste your own lands :( it feel bad, but it needs to be done. you need an out to price of prog.

stage copying a basic is an all star.

exploration effect+ chasm+stage. p fire, and keep em off 3 mana.

[Jaytron]

If you're referring to this list http://www.gatheringmagic.com/jarvisyu-120115-legacy-lands-primer/, it still looks pretty good except for the Horizon Canopy, which I don't think very many people play anymore. Probably would replace with another Tranquil Thicket or maindeck Bojuka Bog, depending on your meta.
Oops, yeah that's the exact article.

Cool. I'm dumping a bunch of EDH staples and I think I can put most of the deck together (save for the Tabby of course)

My meta is quite a bit of fair decks. Eldrazi, DnT, Grixis Delver. Some Shardless.

[Chatto]

Oops, yeah that's the exact article.

Cool. I'm dumping a bunch of EDH staples and I think I can put most of the deck together (save for the Tabby of course)

My meta is quite a bit of fair decks. Eldrazi, DnT, Grixis Delver. Some Shardless.

Nice! Welcome, just one thing: Tabernacle is a cornerstone of this deck. You'll be needing one. Your deck will function, only not that good.

[Rivfader]

you want to keep some number of wastelands to waste your own lands :( it feel bad, but it needs to be done. you need an out to price of prog.

stage copying a basic is an all star.

exploration effect+ chasm+stage. p fire, and keep em off 3 mana.

And loam, but that's so evident you probably didn't mention it. (And then dredge into the second stage)

@ CovenantELite30: If you run a blacksplash, you could consider Urborg. It's acceleration you can croprotate for, if you also have access to both Stage and Depths, for a T3 token and a T4 kill. It's a cornercase, but adds up to the number of scenario's of an accelerated token, besides exploration and mox.

[CovenantElite30]

So update, I went 0-2 drop for a 5 round fnm last night. Got the bye round 3 so felt like dropping. I get to experience the excellence of Tireless Tracker. I played 3 in my sideboard and brought them in VS D&T. I basically won that game I had TT on board, got crazy big and I basically drew a ton of my deck. I think TT is better then Bob in the long game.y sideboard plan against D&T was to take all the loams out and become and more creature value deck with TT and Primeval which won me the game. Was very good and I plan on keeping them in the sideboard.

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[Cfetchcaviar]

So update, I went 0-2 drop for a 5 round fnm last night. Got the bye round 3 so felt like dropping. I get to experience the excellence of Tireless Tracker. I played 3 in my sideboard and brought them in VS D&T. I basically won that game I had TT on board, got crazy big and I basically drew a ton of my deck. I think TT is better then Bob in the long game.y sideboard plan against D&T was to take all the loams out and become and more creature value deck with TT and Primeval which won me the game. Was very good and I plan on keeping them in the sideboard.

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My Damie. :) :) :)

tracker is v good in those games.

[Jaytron]

Nice! Welcome, just one thing: Tabernacle is a cornerstone of this deck. You'll be needing one. Your deck will function, only not that good.

Yep!

I don't mind buying a beat up one later on down the line. Our weeklies allow proxies though, so I'm not too concerned.

[Qujibo]

just sleeving up for a Face2Face event tomorrow (Toronto, ON). This is my list, tell me what you think.

Main

4 Exploration
2 Manabond
4 Mox Diamond
4 Loam
4 Crop Rotation
4 Gamble
3 Punishing Fire
4 Wasteland
4 Ports
4 Stage
4 Depths
4 Grove
4 Fetches
3 Mazes
2 Taiga
2 Thicket
1 Forest
1 Tabernackle
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Bayou

Sideboard:

4 Grip
4 Spheres
3 Thoughtseize
3 Tireless trackers
1 Bog

am not feeling very confident about the board / a few slots in the main but after testing w/ the black splash the past few weeks I feel this is the best configuration.

Was having trouble w/o a karakas in the 75 but I often feel that the card does not do enough in the matchups you need it.

Let me know what you guys think and any suggestions / constructive crit always welcome.

[Misterjuzam]

@Quijbo

If I were you, I would bring in the main the 4th punishing fire and the bog at least and would cut one thicket and one manabond. I would add in the sdb one more thoughtseize and a karakas.

If you want to give a try to the list I've been running for 5 tournaments (ending at 12 out 64, 1 out 8, 3 out 8, 1 out 14 and 1 out 8) :

Main

4 Exploration
4 Mox Diamond
4 Loam
4 Crop Rotation
4 Gamble
3 Punishing Fire
3 abrupt decay
4 Wasteland
4 Ports
4 Stage
3 Depths
1 bog
1 karakas
3 Grove
4 Fetches
3 Mazes
2 Taiga
1 Thicket
1 Forest
1 Tabernacle
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Bayou

Sideboard:

3 Grip
4 Spheres
1 Dark depths
3 confidant
2 chalice of the void
2 boil

I feel pretty confident with the list. STill have to choose between choke and boil in the sdb.

[CovenantElite30]

So what cards do you guys think from lands will be in ETM? My guess is Port, Karakas, Depths, Gamble.

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[Jaytron]

Is there a general SB guide for the dark lands variants?


So what cards do you guys think from lands will be in ETM? My guess is Port, Karakas, Depths, Gamble.

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Depths was announced in a new FTV, so I doubt they'll print it in EMA too. Everybody is saying Port reprint. I just traded for mine, but I don't mind too much if they get reprinted and drop a bit in price. #oldart I'd like to see a Karakas reprint. Gamble reprint would be nice too. Although I just traded for those too.

[Cfetchcaviar]

Is there a general SB guide for the dark lands variants?



Depths was announced in a new FTV, so I doubt they'll print it in EMA too. Everybody is saying Port reprint. I just traded for mine, but I don't mind too much if they get reprinted and drop a bit in price. #oldart I'd like to see a Karakas reprint. Gamble reprint would be nice too. Although I just traded for those too.


send a link to your depths announcement.

[Jaytron]

send a link to your depths announcement.

Oops I guess it wasn't 'officially confirmed' as Dark Depths, but there aren't many cards that would fit the bill. I must've imagined it was confirmed while talking about it with friends, lol

http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/news/announcing-vault-lore-2016-02-29
"Fifteen premium foil cards and one token, including three with new art."

Unless there are other cards that have a high lore impact, and make a token

Take this as you will: https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/48l5go/ftv_lore_spoilers/

[CovenantElite30]

Is there a general SB guide for the dark lands variants?



Depths was announced in a new FTV, so I doubt they'll print it in EMA too. Everybody is saying Port reprint. I just traded for mine, but I don't mind too much if they get reprinted and drop a bit in price. #oldart I'd like to see a Karakas reprint. Gamble reprint would be nice too. Although I just traded for those too.
Yeah I don't see any announcement on Dark Depths being in the next FTV.

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[Jaytron]

Yeah I don't see any announcement on Dark Depths being in the next FTV.

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See my reply right above yours

[Dice_Box]

Take the fake talks of leaks elsewhere. That list is bogus, this topic belongs elsewhere.

[amjw]

hi guys! i made a similar comment on the imperial painter thread but i just want to see your opinions as well.

my local legacy meta consists of miracles, burn, dredge, dnt and storm plus a couple of others. how well does lands play against them? imperial painter and lands are the only two decks i can see myself playing but i've been told it's a bit of an uphill struggle with imperial painter against those decks so i was thinking about making lands as well to take to that particular weekly local legacy.

money is not really an issue for me but it will still take a while for me to save up for lands (assuming i don't sell my painter deck). it looks like a lot of fun to play with.

[supremePINEAPPLE]

That isn't the friendliest example meta since there aren't any really easy decks but it isn't the worst you could play in either. Storm is generally a bad matchup (although this gets a bit muddy if you see the same people on storm every week since you get to mull to combo hands game 1 and then you have a shot in the post-board games) while miracles and death & taxes are both grindy matchups that are very play-skill dependent and normally close. Dredge is usually pretty easy and we are one of the few decks that has the tools to win game 1 via well-timed crop rotations. People don't seem to agree on burn as much around here. I personally find it to be pretty easy since they have a lot of trouble against a quick token and maybe this is just me but it seems like a huge percentage of burn players don't really understand how to play against glacial chasm leading them to make weird plays. Burn's land count also gets them in trouble post-board where a sphere of resistance or two can do some serious work. Have you looked at 4-color loam ever? It's another option that I think would be better positioned in that meta while still being an obscure non-blue deck which sounds like what you are going for.

On another note, I finally played some games with tireless tracker where I didn't just die or combo immediately and she did fine as a sideboard creature. I still like bob better if you are running black since you can go about your business and don't have to do anything else to start getting advantage but in a normal RG list she was just as advertised. I didn't have any interesting plays but did have a few times where people mulled to sideboard hate and then just got beat down for a few turns with tracker. That aspect of having sideboard creatures has always been my favorite thing about them and she fits in nicely while still giving you the potential for card advantage. So far the worst part about her is being less helpful against combo. I liked being able to drop bob for a clock that draws additional spheres and tracker just doesn't get started quickly enough to really do that.

[amjw]

That isn't the friendliest example meta since there aren't any really easy decks but it isn't the worst you could play in either. Storm is generally a bad matchup (although this gets a bit muddy if you see the same people on storm every week since you get to mull to combo hands game 1 and then you have a shot in the post-board games) while miracles and death & taxes are both grindy matchups that are very play-skill dependent and normally close. Dredge is usually pretty easy and we are one of the few decks that has the tools to win game 1 via well-timed crop rotations. People don't seem to agree on burn as much around here. I personally find it to be pretty easy since they have a lot of trouble against a quick token and maybe this is just me but it seems like a huge percentage of burn players don't really understand how to play against glacial chasm leading them to make weird plays. Burn's land count also gets them in trouble post-board where a sphere of resistance or two can do some serious work. Have you looked at 4-color loam ever? It's another option that I think would be better positioned in that meta while still being an obscure non-blue deck which sounds like what you are going for.

On another note, I finally played some games with tireless tracker where I didn't just die or combo immediately and she did fine as a sideboard creature. I still like bob better if you are running black since you can go about your business and don't have to do anything else to start getting advantage but in a normal RG list she was just as advertised. I didn't have any interesting plays but did have a few times where people mulled to sideboard hate and then just got beat down for a few turns with tracker. That aspect of having sideboard creatures has always been my favorite thing about them and she fits in nicely while still giving you the potential for card advantage. So far the worst part about her is being less helpful against combo. I liked being able to drop bob for a clock that draws additional spheres and tracker just doesn't get started quickly enough to really do that.

thanks for the quick reply! i'll have a look at 4c. since i have the lands from imp painter i'll also look at eldrazi. it's just that lands seems so cool with it's graveyard recursion and interactions.

i used to play blue but you're right, i am after an 'obscure non-blue deck' lol.

[supremePINEAPPLE]

thanks for the quick reply! i'll have a look at 4c. since i have the lands from imp painter i'll also look at eldrazi. it's just that lands seems so cool with it's graveyard recursion and interactions.

i used to play blue but you're right, i am after an 'obscure non-blue deck' lol.4-color loam to me feels like a perfect mish-mash of maverick, jund, and lands with a little chalice thrown in so it's always a good time. Good luck in your search! I'm sure just about anything you choose will be awesome (except for eldrazi, I'm still pissed about modern :mad:).

[Dice_Box]

Gamble is coming, in Foil.

[filln]

Gamble is coming, in Foil.

I literally just bought a set of Japanese versions last week and thought I was done with that card. Damn it, this never ends.

[Chatto]

Gamble is coming, in Foil.


I literally just bought a set of Japanese versions last week and thought I was done with that card. Damn it, this never ends.

I'm soooo glad I don't do foil :smile:

[Qujibo]

Tireless tracker is nuts, feels way better then bob.

Not 100% on my list yet but getting there, will post the updated list soon.

[barcode]

Tireless tracker is nuts, feels way better then bob.

Not 100% on my list yet but getting there, will post the updated list soon.

I'm looking forward to testing Tracker this week!

[Jaytron]

Are there any articles out on SB plans with dark lands?

I assume you have to be more careful with your dredging, since you can't get back an Abrupt Decay or Molten Vortex if it's in your GY?

Also, how's the Eldrazi MU with RG Lands, and Dark Lands?

[barcode]

Also, how's the Eldrazi MU with RG Lands, and Dark Lands?

With RG lands it can be tough. If they make Endless One as an X/X where X>2 we're going to have trouble. If you've been cutting Maze of Ith you'll have a hard time. The key is to either gain mana advantage with Exploration to deny mana (Tabernacle + Wasteland) or to assemble Marit Lage as quickly as possible.

For RGb lands? I'm not sure. I would expect it to be better since it can Abrupt Decay creatures and Chalice of the Void.

Don't play Molten Vortex. The card is hot trash. Just play Punishing Fire and you'll do fine. P.S., Molten Vortex gets hit by the 4x Chalice of the Void that Eldrazi plays.

[Sibelius]

This is the list I will test tonight

4 Fetch
2 Taiga
1 Bayou
1 Forest
3 Grove
4 DD
4 Stage
4 Waste
4 Port
3 Maze
1 Tabernacle
1 Chasm
1 Bog
1 Ghostquarter
1 Riftstone Portal

3 Pfire
2 Decay
4 Exploration
4 Life from the Loam
4 Crop
4 Gamble
4 Mox Diamond

Side
4 Sphere
3 Chalice
3 Grip
2 Boil
1 Boseiju
1 Worm Harvest
1 Molten Vortex

Sib

[Jaytron]

With RG lands it can be tough. If they make Endless One as an X/X where X>2 we're going to have trouble. If you've been cutting Maze of Ith you'll have a hard time. The key is to either gain mana advantage with Exploration to deny mana (Tabernacle + Wasteland) or to assemble Marit Lage as quickly as possible.

For RGb lands? I'm not sure. I would expect it to be better since it can Abrupt Decay creatures and Chalice of the Void.

Don't play Molten Vortex. The card is hot trash. Just play Punishing Fire and you'll do fine. P.S., Molten Vortex gets hit by the 4x Chalice of the Void that Eldrazi plays.

Yeah, I already have the cards for the punfire package. I really like it better than Molten Vortex.

I'm running 3 Maze main, I think that's pretty standard right?


This is the list I will test tonight

4 Fetch
2 Taiga
1 Bayou
1 Forest
3 Grove
4 DD
4 Stage
4 Waste
4 Port
3 Maze
1 Tabernacle
1 Chasm
1 Bog
1 Ghostquarter
1 Riftstone Portal

3 Pfire
2 Decay
4 Exploration
4 Life from the Loam
4 Crop
4 Gamble
4 Mox Diamond

Side
4 Sphere
3 Chalice
3 Grip
2 Boil
1 Boseiju
1 Worm Harvest
1 Molten Vortex

Sib

Is the black splash even worth it for only 2 decay, and no SB cards?

[Dice_Box]

Three Maze is the norm yes.

[Jaytron]

Three Maze is the norm yes.

Thanks! I assume I probably want to bring in all my grips in the matchup? (Running a stock RG list)

Drop punishing fires?

[Chatto]

Thanks! I assume I probably want to bring in all my grips in the matchup? (Running a stock RG list)

Drop punishing fires?

First question, what do you think they will bring in against us?

(But yeah, probably. What to board out really depends on what you expect they will bring in)

[Jaytron]

First question, what do you think they will bring in against us?

(But yeah, probably. What to board out really depends on what you expect they will bring in)

I'd imagine that they bring in chalice.

I did:

+4 Grip
-1 Gamble -1 Karakas -1 Crop rotation -1 Manabond



Went 1-1-1 today, first time piloting the deck that's fairly stock

1 Forest
1 Glacial Chasm
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
3 Maze of Ith
1 Karakas
4 Rishadan Port
2 Taiga
4 Thespian's Stage
2 Tranquil Thicket
1 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
1 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Misty Rainforest
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
4 Dark Depths
4 Mox Diamond
4 Exploration
1 Manabond
4 Crop Rotation
4 Punishing Fire
4 Gamble
4 Life from the Loam

Sideboard
2 Tireless Tracker
4 Sphere of Resistance
2 Boil
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
4 Krosan Grip
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Chalice of the Void

R1 vs Shardless

G1, just get him with ML pretty early, had a really explosive start

+1 Boseiju +2 Boil (Didn't think I'd need K-grip)
-1 Manabond -1 Karakas -1 Glacial Chasm


G2: I was wrong about needing k-grip. I lose because I was impatient in p-fireing a deathrite, and got my fires surgicaled and having thespian stage needled. In hindsight I should have just waiting till I could recur after casting to protect myself from surgical

+2 K-grip, -1 Thicket -1 Depths?

G3: He gets an early needle again, and I'm sort of stuck. I have an exploration and I apparently missed a second land at some point to K-grip his needle earlier than I could have. I lose to an active Jace and pressure from goyfs. Lots of misplays on my part, heh.

Maybe tracker is ok in this MU?

0-1

R2 vs DnT

G1: Goes a while, but I have loam and expo and jam ML until she runs out of StPs (I end the game at 79 life)

+4 K-Grip +2 Tracker
-1 Manabond -1 Thicket -1 Glacial Chasm -1 WL -1 Port -1 something else
(no idea what I'm doing here)

G2: T2 RiP. Eventually just die to beats I had the T1 gamble, maybe should just gamble for grip instead of loam off the bat? My one chance at a ML gets fiend huntered, because I made it to block a batterskull. Maybe could have taken the hit from batterskull, then made ML end step. But I don't think it would have mattered TOO much, since it would have gotten fiend huntered anyways. She would have just sat at 4 life.

G3: T2 RiP. I eventually get a gamble K-grip (again maybe should have T1 gambled for it). I k-grip and am working to getting some kind of loam engine going. She casts cataclysm on like.. t4 of turns. I keep a Maze, she keeps batterskull, the germ and a land. We were almost to time when I gambled for K-grip. Maybe I should have just gone for a Depths, as I had stage on board already and just shoved the combo.

0-1-1

R1 vs Eldrazi (The reason I can't play miracles at my lgs anymore)

G1: He goes T1 eye Mimic. I T1 Mox diamond, forest, exploration, grove, loam. He T2 wastes my grove, no other plays. I dredge some stuff and WL him out of the game. Eventually find a p-fire for his 2/1. and he scoops with no permanents left on the board.

+4 Grip
-1 Gamble -1 Karakas -1 Crop rotation -1 Manabond

G2: I have another pretty explosive start, I think something along the lines of double diamond loam. I crop rotate for a stage, and he keeps me off the combo for a few turns just drawing WL. Eventually I shove the combo through.

1-1-1

We talked after, and he boards in Leyline of the Void and Helm combo in this MU. Lol.. He thankfully didn't have T0 leyline any of our games.

All in all, it was fun. Lots of lines that I completely forgot about. I was just mindlessly jamming combo. Really unsure about the boarding. It felt nice to smash Eldrazi to pieces after getting rekt by them on Miracles for the past few weeks. I did miss the color blue today :(

Playing 4 fetchlands with only 3 targets felt kind of awkward.

I might try splashing black for decays

[Sibelius]

Is the black splash even worth it for only 2 decay, and no SB cards?

I think the Black sb is actively bad. Discard with no guaranteed clock doesn't work imo. Two decay main doesn't alter the deck drastically but allows us to cut a kgrip in the side. I'm using this for a 3rd chalice to combat storm and painter. Didn't get to boil anyone tho :(
Surgical is on the downswing i believe so the need for thicket is diminshed.

sib

[Claymore]

Being a player of Jund Depths, I don't think black splash for just Abrupt Decay is necessarily worth it here in RG Lands. I played without them recently and didn't miss them...although I didn't play against Miracles at all.

I think a splash would be better for White (Ray Revelation) or something like an ETutor board. Tutor up Helm EOT? Yes please.

Tracker is also showing to be extremely powerful in a variety of decks now; GW Maverick, Loam, and of course Here.

[Sibelius]

I'm just not sure what matchups a 2 of tracker in the sideboard actively make better. Would someone please explain.
Yes the card is obviously powerful but how does it help our terrible matchups? And what are we loosing out of the sideboard for this card?
Or are there decks that become so much better against us post board that we need to diversify in this way?

Sib

[benjiman13]

I really think that the splash to go is white. Of course Decay is worth it. But, in white you have access to Ray of Revelation, enlightened tutor (and a better sb) maybe nahiri too!
I do not know if someone already give a try...

[Sibelius]

I really think that the splash to go is white. Of course Decay is worth it. But, in white you have access to Ray of Revelation, enlightened tutor (and a better sb) maybe nahiri too!
I do not know if someone already give a try...

The reason we play Krosan Grip and Abrupt Decay is that they are 'virtually' uncounterable. Ray of Revelation is easily countered by CB and many other spells ans so is pointless. Also getting white vs a Bloodmoon deck is a joke.
Enlightened tutor board for what exactly? This deck can't actually waste a turn putting a sphere on top vs a storm deck. What enchantments should we be tutoring for exactly?

People consistently suggest a white splash but don't actually think through what it solves/what it actually makes better in this deck.
Its great to suggest things but they actually need some logic behind them.

Sib

[CptHaddock]

The reason we play Krosan Grip and Abrupt Decay is that they are 'virtually' uncounterable. Ray of Revelation is easily countered by CB and many other spells ans so is pointless. Also getting white vs a Bloodmoon deck is a joke.
Enlightened tutor board for what exactly? This deck can't actually waste a turn putting a sphere on top vs a storm deck. What enchantments should we be tutoring for exactly?

People consistently suggest a white splash but don't actually think through what it solves/what it actually makes better in this deck.
Its great to suggest things but they actually need some logic behind them.

Sib

Huh? I hope we are not acting like a white splash is something new to Lands, and that it's not equally hard to get black under a moon. :rolleyes:

White seems to give you e-tutor, knight, thalia, teeg, canonist, revoker (although I guess you can play this regardless) and whatever other goodies you want to run because you have e-tutor now. Seems like having a tutor effect would be nice rather than mulliganing into oblivion trying to find a quick combo/hate piece to slow down storm.

I think barcode was testing out a white splash however I may have missed the post where she gave her thoughts, any chance you could reiterate barcode?

[barcode]

People consistently suggest a white splash but don't actually think through what it solves/what it actually makes better in this deck.
Its great to suggest things but they actually need some logic behind them.

Sib

Gaddock Teeg and Ethersworn Canonist are the big wins from White. There isn't a ton of value in Enlightened Tutor, I think. It's also easier to get white mana while Blood Mooned thanks to Riftstone Portal.

[filln]

Price of Progress reprint in EMA... would have really loved to see less of this card. :rolleyes:

[Claymore]

Gaddock Teeg and Ethersworn Canonist are the big wins from White. There isn't a ton of value in Enlightened Tutor, I think. It's also easier to get white mana while Blood Mooned thanks to Riftstone Portal.

Tutor can grab Canonist, Chalice, and Crucible, fwiw.

[barcode]

Tutor can grab Canonist, Chalice, and Crucible, fwiw.

Correct! Chalice, however, is likely to turn off the Tutor.

[supremePINEAPPLE]

I'd rather play a critical amount of good cards than worry about running enlightened tutor. It's a really shitty feeling to die with one of those in hand when you could have just drawn a Thalia or something and cast it immediately. The card seems like it should play so much better than it actually does in my experience.

I think the white board is always worth keeping in mind though, especially when combo is rampant. I usually run a mix of Thalia, Containment Priest, and Teeg when playing savannah.

[Cfetchcaviar]

I play gamble, its good enough for me. If i really want to keep my gamble card, i can buffer it with a ton of lands in hand. E tutor and white is not where i want to be. go to one of the 4 color loam pages. they have what you are looking for.

with regards to 2 tracker in the sideboard, it offered the same benefits of dark confidant at the cost of speed, but a bigger tempo gain. Stop thinking about it in terms of "helping our terrible matchups." It's good in ~~grindy matchups~~ Games that go long. Ones where running a witch out can often punish us. Test the card. Its really hard to judge the quality and utility of a card by only reading forum posts and downloading decklists like the insipid mass of players who go to the tournaments we are trying to take down. Ray of rev is also bad in the boarded games because the flashback is completely turned off by the graveyard hate. which is the only reason anyone would want to run it. besides it being easily countered.

[Jaytron]

I play gamble, its good enough for me. If i really want to keep my gamble card, i can buffer it with a ton of lands in hand. E tutor and white is not where i want to be. go to one of the 4 color loam pages. they have what you are looking for.

with regards to 2 tracker in the sideboard, it offered the same benefits of dark confidant at the cost of speed, but a bigger tempo gain. Stop thinking about it in terms of "helping our terrible matchups." It's good in ~~grindy matchups~~ Games that go long. Ones where running a witch out can often punish us. Test the card. Its really hard to judge the quality and utility of a card by only reading forum posts and downloading decklists like the insipid mass of players who go to the tournaments we are trying to take down. Ray of rev is also bad in the boarded games because the flashback is completely turned off by the graveyard hate. which is the only reason anyone would want to run it. besides it being easily countered.

So is Tireless Tracker good in MUs like Shardless, DnT, etc? Other 'slow' decks?

I was unsure how to board against these MUs earlier this week. (new to the deck)

[Cfetchcaviar]

So is Tireless Tracker good in MUs like Shardless, DnT, etc? Other 'slow' decks?

I was unsure how to board against these MUs earlier this week. (new to the deck)

Hyperbolic, but yes. Decks that want to grind it really shines. outclasses threats, draws cards and goes long, better.

[StefN]

Hello guys,

I play this specific Lands build for a couple of month. I play the straight R/G list and made 9 place with 5-2 two weeks ago and 1 place today with 5-1.
I have problems with Miracles lately and today I tried a new sb strategy. I added 2 choke. I only played against DelverBUG, no Miracle today, but choke won me one game. Stil im not sure if this is the right card against Miracle. Has anyone experience mit choke against Miracle?

[Cfetchcaviar]

Hello guys,

I play this specific Lands build for a couple of month. I play the straight R/G list and made 9 place with 5-2 two weeks ago and 1 place today with 5-1.
I have problems with Miracles lately and today I tried a new sb strategy. I added 2 choke. I only played against DelverBUG, no Miracle today, but choke won me one game. Stil im not sure if this is the right card against Miracle. Has anyone experience mit choke against Miracle?

choke is a great card if you are not afraid of wear/tear, councils judgment, countermagic, counter balance, venser, or them holding up fetchlands to resolve the spells that kill you.

try boseiju in the SB, or MD if its a problem. Boil has great synergy with boseiju. and it can be cast under a bloodmoon.

[chaosjace]

Just went to a tourney with RG, haven't finished yet, but I am Definately going black splash now.
Game 1
Miracles
0-2

Game 2
Guided passage
1-2

Game 3
Eldrazi
1-2

Noting major to report, didn't make any noticeable misplays. Abrupt decay would have saved me every match, discard would have made all the game 2s awesome, so far comboing off is the only way I have won.

[Cfetchcaviar]

Just went to a tourney with RG, haven't finished yet, but I am Definately going black splash now.
Game 1
Miracles
0-2

Game 2
Guided passage
1-2

Game 3
Eldrazi
1-2

Noting major to report, didn't make any noticeable misplays. Abrupt decay would have saved me every match, discard would have made all the game 2s awesome, so far comboing off is the only way I have won.

The colors you play will not change the skill cap it takes to beat miracles. Playing black is not a buy to beating miracles. What happened in the eldrazi games?

[chaosjace]

The colors you play will not change the skill cap it takes to beat miracles. Playing black is not a buy to beating miracles. What happened in the eldrazi games?


I combo off game one without seeing too much, game two he beats me down within a few turns, game three i get mana bond and double port out, and start waste + port locking, he drops needle on port then chalice on 1 and i find no out and he beats me down quickly after that.

The next two games I played was another miracle opponent, and then some weird auriok salvager + LED combo, which i beat. Only deck I beat was another combo deck.

I know black splash is not an auto win for miracles, but decay would have been nice to have, i conceded to at least one board state of 2 Blood moon, and a RIP and a Jace, not that decay hits that, but damn that was a tough lock.

Riftstone portal made life really fun when i got to it, a couple times i dredged over half my deck and never saw it. I had gone up to two manabond which made an impact in a few games. never consistently combo'd off, it was kind of sad.

[Dice_Box]

I am going to test Tracker, moving back to the two colour build for it.

Main:
Standard 59 with Bog as my flex.

Sideboard:
4 Grip
4 Sphere
3 Chalice (Leant one to a friend going to the legacy GP)
3 Tracker (higher number for testing. I would normally cut one for the extra Chalice)
1 Riftstone (To side in with Tracker.)

Let's see how it goes.

[CovenantElite30]

Is it good to bring in choke against ANT or is that just too slow?

Sent from my STV100-1 using Tapatalk

[Alexeezay]

Choke is better than nothing against ANT, they fetch Island (and Swamp) early. Alongside Ports it works well.
Get A sphere out and they will most likely not get to Abrupt Decay.

I also board Choke vs SNT decks and Reanimator for exactly that reason.

[CovenantElite30]

Choke is better than nothing against ANT, they fetch Island (and Swamp) early. Alongside Ports it works well.
Get A sphere out and they will most likely not get to Abrupt Decay.

I also board Choke vs SNT decks and Reanimator for exactly that reason.

Lost 3 straight matches online to ANT. Apparently 4 spheres, 2 chalice, 1 choke and a Bog isn't enough hate.

Even when I had a Chalice on zero and 1 sphere down I still lost to a Hurkyl's Recall.

Without a way to close out the game fast with the combo they eventually find the answers.

Cards I take out are 3 Maze, Karakas, Tabernacle, Clasm and 3 Punishing fire. Am I missing something?

[barcode]

Lost 3 straight matches online to ANT. Apparently 4 spheres, 2 chalice, 1 choke and a Bog isn't enough hate.

Even when I had a Chalice on zero and 1 sphere down I still lost to a Hurkyl's Recall.

Without a way to close out the game fast with the combo they eventually find the answers.

Cards I take out are 3 Maze, Karakas, Tabernacle, Clasm and 3 Punishing fire. Am I missing something?

You should leave Tabernacle in to hedge for Empty the Warrens.

You can't keep hands that don't have disruption: sphere, chalice, rishadan ports. This is what you're looking for. If you're playing the White version count in Gaddock Teeg as a piece of disruption. Maybe you can turn 3 them with Marit Lage and sometimes that hand will win but often they'll be able to win before then, so you need disruption.

Gamble can count as disruption.

Sometimes it's possible to make every correct play and still lose. Don't forget that.

[Cfetchcaviar]

I combo off game one without seeing too much, game two he beats me down within a few turns, game three i get mana bond and double port out, and start waste + port locking, he drops needle on port then chalice on 1 and i find no out and he beats me down quickly after that.

The next two games I played was another miracle opponent, and then some weird auriok salvager + LED combo, which i beat. Only deck I beat was another combo deck.

I know black splash is not an auto win for miracles, but decay would have been nice to have, i conceded to at least one board state of 2 Blood moon, and a RIP and a Jace, not that decay hits that, but damn that was a tough lock.

Riftstone portal made life really fun when i got to it, a couple times i dredged over half my deck and never saw it. I had gone up to two manabond which made an impact in a few games. never consistently combo'd off, it was kind of sad.


I think decay is a great card, but dont give up on RG because of a bad day. i think splashing black weakens our v strong game plan. try out boseiju.


I took down a 22 person GPT today losing only to storm.

my list is

2 fetch
3 depths
2 thicket
4 crop rot
4 fire
bog
karakas
boseiju
raging ravine

SB:

4 grip
4 sphere
2 chalice
2 tracker
zorb
trini
boil

i was able to steal a game from storm by activating zorb 5 times when they miscounted storm. its great! raging ravine was v nice against miracles killing a jace and eating a swords to make room for a witch.
played against eldrazi, delver, and food chain too.

[CovenantElite30]

Lets take a poll what is better in the sideboard Choke or Boil?

I play a 2 of Choke and considering going to 2 of Boil.

Of course though Boil would require me playing 1 "Boseiju, Who Shelters All" as well, or do you think I can get away with not playing that?

[Sibelius]

Lets take a poll what is better in the sideboard Choke or Boil?

I play a 2 of Choke and considering going to 2 of Boil.

Of course though Boil would require me playing 1 "Boseiju, Who Shelters All" as well, or do you think I can get away with not playing that?

I think Boil is better. Choke dies to their Wear//Tear that we know they are bringing in. If they are a good player they will also be leaving CB on 3. Boseiju is a really useful card in the miracles MU.

I am currently trying a very small black splash of 2 Abrupt decays main so I can have this sideboard

4 Sphere
3 Grip
3 Chailice
1 Boseiju
2 Boil
1 Worm Harvest (This, Chalice on 1 and a Riftstone portal is how you beat Painter)
1 Molten Vortex (maybe don't need this with decay main as an answer to MM?)

Sib

[kohai]

I think decay is a great card, but dont give up on RG because of a bad day. i think splashing black weakens our v strong game plan. try out boseiju.


I took down a 22 person GPT today losing only to storm.

my list is

2 fetch
3 depths
2 thicket
4 crop rot
4 fire
bog
karakas
boseiju
raging ravine

SB:

4 grip
4 sphere
2 chalice
2 tracker
zorb
trini
boil

i was able to steal a game from storm by activating zorb 5 times when they miscounted storm. its great! raging ravine was v nice against miracles killing a jace and eating a swords to make room for a witch.
played against eldrazi, delver, and food chain too.

I've also been playing a manland, but it's been Treetop Village. Do you like the Ravine over Treetop, or even Mishra's Factory?

Also, how many Manabond? That's my big question lately.

[Cfetchcaviar]

I've also been playing a manland, but it's been Treetop Village. Do you like the Ravine over Treetop, or even Mishra's Factory?


i liked the clock of ravine over treetop village. v fast.

0 manabond

[SMRiggin]

I'm leaning more on cutting my 1 manabond too, tbh. I feel like a manland is a better utilization of the slot.

I'm on the straight RG Pfire list w/ karakas as my 1 flex slot and 4 fetch. I'm also thinking about going down to 3 fetch for the bojuka bog in the main.

Shawn

[CovenantElite30]

I think Boil is better. Choke dies to their Wear//Tear that we know they are bringing in. If they are a good player they will also be leaving CB on 3. Boseiju is a really useful card in the miracles MU.

I am currently trying a very small black splash of 2 Abrupt decays main so I can have this sideboard

4 Sphere
3 Grip
3 Chailice
1 Boseiju
2 Boil
1 Worm Harvest (This, Chalice on 1 and a Riftstone portal is how you beat Painter)
1 Molten Vortex (maybe don't need this with decay main as an answer to MM?)

Sib


I'm also running a black splash but for 3 abrupt decay main. I've been liking it so far.

My sideboard is a bit different:

4 Sphere
2 Grip
2 Chalice
1 karakas
2 Choke
2 Tireless Tracker
1 Primeval
1 Zuran Orb

I'm going to try dropping the Choke for Boil and not play "Boseiju, Who Shelters All".

Generally when I'm playing against a deck that is going to tax my graveyard I've been taking out 3 loams for 2 Trackers and 1 Prime. So far been working out really well. They generally don't have any great targets this way for surgical.

[gigapatrick]

On the Choke vs. Boil topic:

First, I have no desire to rehash an old row between myself and Cfetch, but I do want to weigh in on this.

Choke, I would say, is overall a better card. It costs one less mana, has a retroactive effect, and is game over versus a wide variety of decks.

Boil, I would say, is a little better against Miracles, since it can't be countered when cast with Boseiju and can't be Wear/Tear'ed or Council's Judgement'ed.

That said, I vote for Choke. You can't just jam Boil against Miracles when they've got two Islands out (I've tried and been punished), and that forces you more toward the style of game Miracles is good at: long and grindy. While casting Boil on a board of four or five Islands will most likely win you the game, I think you'll still tend to lose the majority of games that you try to go long against Miracles (which Boil urges you to do).

Personally, though, I've been unhappy with both Boil and Choke versus Miracles. Boil for the aforementioned reason, and Choke because it is so easily dealt with. I think you're best bet (with RG, which I think is stronger overall than the black splash for consistency reasons) is simply to keep a really fast hand, either an Exploration-Loam hand that can get major advantage quickly or a combo hand that goes off no later than turn three (but turn two is much better). In either case, when you lose against Miracles, it's always going to be a feel bad loss since you're going to get locked out by one enchantment or another. Right now, I'm not bothering with either Choke or Boil against Miracles; I'm just jamming 4 Sphere of Resistance, one Boseiju, and hoping for a quick hand.

That's my input, valuable or not.

[CovenantElite30]

On the Choke vs. Boil topic:

First, I have no desire to rehash an old row between myself and Cfetch, but I do want to weigh in on this.

Choke, I would say, is overall a better card. It costs one less mana, has a retroactive effect, and is game over versus a wide variety of decks.

Boil, I would say, is a little better against Miracles, since it can't be countered when cast with Boseiju and can't be Wear/Tear'ed or Council's Judgement'ed.

That said, I vote for Choke. You can't just jam Boil against Miracles when they've got two Islands out (I've tried and been punished), and that forces you more toward the style of game Miracles is good at: long and grindy. While casting Boil on a board of four or five Islands will most likely win you the game, I think you'll still tend to lose the majority of games that you try to go long against Miracles (which Boil urges you to do).

Personally, though, I've been unhappy with both Boil and Choke versus Miracles. Boil for the aforementioned reason, and Choke because it is so easily dealt with. I think you're best bet (with RG, which I think is stronger overall than the black splash for consistency reasons) is simply to keep a really fast hand, either an Exploration-Loam hand that can get major advantage quickly or a combo hand that goes off no later than turn three (but turn two is much better). In either case, when you lose against Miracles, it's always going to be a feel bad loss since you're going to get locked out by one enchantment or another. Right now, I'm not bothering with either Choke or Boil against Miracles; I'm just jamming 4 Sphere of Resistance, one Boseiju, and hoping for a quick hand.

That's my input, valuable or not.


Great insight dude :-)

BTW I messaged you wanted to know what settings you use for CamStudio because I've been trying to put some videos together. I finally got lands built online and have been grinding out some games with it.

I originally had choke in the sideboard but switched to boil. I play the black splash in my build but only and I mean only for 3 abrupt decays main. I play no black out of the side at all. I know it's probably bad but abrupt decay has been a house for me especially against miracles.

Anyway, I've found boil to be better because you can literally cast it on their upkeep and make them use mana on their turn which chokes them a bit. Honestly I would rather them waste a counter spell on that then a crop rotation or a gamble. Having Boil be a instant is what makes it hands better then choke in my opinion. I don't run Boseiju because I think it's rare you'll have that on bored and have boil in hand.

Again just my two cents. ;-)

[gigapatrick]

Great insight dude :-)

BTW I messaged you wanted to know what settings you use for CamStudio because I've been trying to put some videos together. I finally got lands built online and have been grinding out some games with it.

My bad. I don't really check my messages on this site. At all, in fact. When using CamStudio, I always recorded as an AVI file, and then I used compressor software (any old free one will do) to compress the videos down to a size that would allow me to upload them to Youtube. You do have to fiddle with the CamStudio video settings a bit, but the settings you need differ depending on your computer and on what negatives (in screen resolution, frame size, speed per second, etc.) that you're willing to live with. Best thing to do, I would say, is watch a tutorial for CamStudio on Youtube. I mean, that's what I did. All in all, though, to get CamStudio to work properly, it's probably only a matter of an hour's research.

Good luck. Would love to see some more Lands videos.

[heckler]

went 2-1 yesterday in a small event.

round1: win against a cycling laboratory maniac deck

round2: loss to burn. lost game 1, won game 2 and game 3 i had chalice on 1 but overproduced my board with no hedging against price. turns out price was the only not 1 cmc card in his hand. I punted that one myself.

round3: win against RUG delver. I tried out tireless tracker in this match. He was able to give CA and race a delver after I had Loam surgically extracted. He's better than I suspected he'd be but bob gives effortless card advantage for no mana investment. That being said, I don't splash black to try to stay consistent (and 1 bayou in the deck doesn't seem like a solid plan for casting black spells more than 1 time) and don't really have access to bob. I played 3 in the SB.

about Tireless Tracker: he will help out in games where you are essentially durdling, which happen. He isn't straight gas when you have better things to be doing with mana like bob is (and with nearly zero opportunity cost). Honestly, if courser of kruphix was one green pip in the casting cost, I would just slot him in instead; but the 2 green means he is tough to cast turn 2-3 in some games. In effect, if you expect a 7+ turn game or if you expect to be durlding, tracker is not a bad card to bring in.

[hyp3r1on]

What gigapatrick said about Choke vs Boil pretty much echoes my exact same opinions about those two cards. I would rather use those slots with Tireless Trackers or Bobs with the black splash to eke value out of vs Miracles or other matchups where the game will go long.

[chaosjace]

I wish there was room for more manabond, it does so much work when I draw it, (the only way I won those games in that event)
On the subject of manlands, isn't Ravine a bit of a heavy investment? compared to treetop anyway, 2 vs 4 mana?

[CovenantElite30]

Let's have a GP Columbus conversation. Whose going from the Lands group and what are you hedging your sideboard slots for? Personally I expect to see a whole lot of Eldrazi. I fear having to play against Miracles more then once.

Sent from my STV100-1 using Tapatalk

[UnsungHero]

Let's have a GP Columbus conversation. Whose going from the Lands group and what are you hedging your sideboard slots for? Personally I expect to see a whole lot of Eldrazi. I fear having to play against Miracles more then once.

Still on the R/G 61 Maindeck plan for the GP. Running Bog Main, Riftstone Portal, and Ghost Quarter as the 61st card. I couldn't decide if I wanted to keep Rifstone or Ghost, so I'm just going with both.

Board is:
4 Sphere of Resistance
4 Krosan Grip
3 Chalice of The Void
1 Karakas
2 Boil
1 Boseju, who Shelters All

Boil has been pretty good in testing. Had one game where I fought through double Blood Moon and Boiled him and raced his Jace. I don't even care if the card is super good. There is nothing more satisfying than boiling some Miracles player. Considering how many dead cards we have against storm I would even bring it in against them. Also had a game where he had Countertop, and I had a Sphere and a Boseiju, and had an uncounterable Crop Rotation because I paid the tax effect with Boseiju. Considering dropping a Chalice for a Trinisphere, but I'm not sure yet.

I'll be at the GP on Friday (as well as all weekend) so I'd love to talk Lands, tell lands stories, and discuss which basic forest we think is best.

[kohai]

I'll be at the GP.

My main is
4 Gamble
4 Mox
4 Crop Rot (May go to 3?)
4 Exploration
4 Loam
2 P. Fire
2 Molten Vortex (This is probably the weirdest thing)
1 Tabernacle
1 Glacial Chasm
3 Maze
4 Depths
4 Wasteland
4 Port
4 Stage
1 Treetop Village
4 Groves
3 Green Fetch
2 Thicket
1 Riftstone Portal
1 Bog
2 Taiga
1 Forest

Sideboard
4 Grip
3 Chalice
4 Sphere
1 Karakas
1 Warping Wail
2 Choke

Treetop is the 61st card, but I'm gonna try a Ravine this weekend.

I'm pretty biased against Miracles, where I sideboard in everything except Warping Wail and Karakas.

Last night I went through the gauntlet a few times with 2-3 Tireless Tracker, and wasn't sure if it was needed. I liked playing a Treetop and just getting in with that.

I would also like to talk about the P. Fire/Vortex split. I've played 3/1 and felt like I didn't draw the Vortex enough to make it good. I tested the Dark Lands for a few weeks and just didn't love it. AD main is sweet, but not sure if it was worth it.

Testing every night till Thursday, so fingers crossed. I get in late Thursday night, so I'd be happy to meet up and discuss plans on Friday. Hitting up the distillery!

[barcode]

I'm going.

I'm not testing as much for this GP as I did for GP SeaTac but I'll be taking the white splash with Teeg, Tracker and Canonist. I might play 61 cards in the main deck to squeeze in a Ghost Quarter. Right now there's a Worm Harvest in the main.

[The_Dingo]

I unfortunately will not be attending the GP, but I wanted to share my decklist and thoughts, and hopefully get some thoughts from other players who are also trying to play RGb with abrupt decays and p fires over molten vortex.

27 spells
4 Life from the Loam
4 Gamble
4 Exploration
4 Mox diamond
4 Crop rotation
4 Punishing fire
3 Abrupt decay

33 lands
4 green fetch
2 taiga
1 bayou
1 forest
4 wasteland
4 rishadan port
4 thespians stage
3 grove of the burnwilows
3 dark depths
3 maze of ith
2 tranquil thicket
1 tabernacle
1 bojuka bog

15 sideboard
2 Krosan Grip
1 Ancient grudge
2 Choke
4 sphere of resistance
2 chalice of the void
3 tireless tracker
1 karakas

I think the only big surprise in the maindeck is that I've cut glacial chasm. This card has been an automatic one of in my decklist for as long as I've been playing the deck. But recently, while trying to figure out where to make some room for decays, I gave some serious thought to whether or not the card is essential. My conclusion is that chasm is meta dependant, and in many metas lacking burn, infect, zoo, or UR delver, chasm just isn't necessary, especially with additional removal in the form of decay to manage the board. I haven't missed the card very much in my local meta, but I haven't played many matches against the decks that would make me want chasm.

I've settled on a 4/3 split of P fires to abrupt decays, and I'm currently on 3 grove of the burnwillows. I wanted as many P fires as I could fit in order to have a turn one answer for a turn one deathrite shaman, but there are only 3 groves, so sometimes recurring fire is not as reliable. This makes sense to me because finding a grove is much easier than finding a fire.

I'm definitely not opposed to the idea of playing chasm or the 4th grove as a 61st card, but I'd also consider karakas or riftstone portal.

My sideboard is very much up in the air, but I only have 10 black sources total so I'm staying away from T1 black spells like duress and thoughtseize. I'm playing tracker over bob as an alternate card advantage engine when access to the GY has been denied by RiP or surgical, and I think it's much easier to cast tracker.

One of the things that I dislike about the above list is that I couldn't find room for a singleton manabond. Even if I could find room, would it be worth playing? OR do the maindeck decays just make the manabond too awkward?

One of the things that I really like about this list is that with RGCL I always felt like I needed to bring in some number of K grips postboard to deal with troublesome artifacts and enchantments, but if my opponent doesn't have any cards like that then I've made a very bad hedge. I would often die to dudes with a K grip in hand. The abrupt decays change this dynamic greatly. Having access to an increased number of answers to artifacts and enchantments in general makes me more willing to be a little more liberal decaying for example an aether vial or piece of equipment.

[barcode]

I unfortunately will not be attending the GP, but I wanted to share my decklist and thoughts, and hopefully get some thoughts from other players who are also trying to play RGb with abrupt decays and p fires over molten vortex.

27 spells
33 lands


This ratio seems very out of whack. Your Mox Diamonds must be awful.

[hyp3r1on]

I don't think it's necessarily wrong to drop the Chasm if you're list is really tight. I've played without it here and there. When Chasm is amazing - its unreal good. When Chasm is bad - its one of the worst cards in the maindeck. I personally wouldn't cut it though. Yes, it's power is meta-dependent but it's too much of a saving grace in matchups where it is amazing. The second you play a few matchups in a row where you wished you had access to it - you'll miss it tremendously. I disagree with you saying that the current meta is "bad" for Chasm. There is a lot of UR Delver, Eldrazi and Infect. Not to mention Burn will always be there rearing its ugly head.

One card that I think more RGb lists should explore running is Sylvan Library - especially if you're leaning hard on Molten Vortex.

Also will be at the GP. Will most likely be playing Miracles for the GP, but if I have the opportunity - will be playing side events/grinders with Lands.

[SMRiggin]

I'll be at the GP. I'm looking at things a little differently for my sideboard. I'm going to run RG with the full 4 trackers out of the board. Against Miracles I'm going to board out the loams and Forget about the GY and focus on the beatdown/ca that tracker gives me.

I've also been debating on running thought-not seer out of the board. With 16 lands that produce colorless, it's viable. It's a clock and disruption, and can be cast on t2 w/ exploration. I miss my Thoughtseize out of the board from the black version.

Looking for whatever feedback people may have on the ideas.

Thanks,
Shawn

[CovenantElite30]

I've been playtesting online a lot lately and as you all know Miracles is a miserable matchup.

Given the state of the meta and probably 10% of the GP will be Miracles players, what do you guys think about running "Boseiju, Who Shelters All" main?

I'm going to start testing this out, just wanted to get your guys opinion.

My thought on this was that you can cast loam through a top lock and be able to use it with boil in the side.

Maybe its not worth a lands slot.

[barcode]

I've been playtesting online a lot lately and as you all know Miracles is a miserable matchup.

Given the state of the meta and probably 10% of the GP will be Miracles players, what do you guys think about running "Boseiju, Who Shelters All" main?

I'm going to start testing this out, just wanted to get your guys opinion.

My thought on this was that you can cast loam through a top lock and be able to use it with boil in the side.

Maybe its not worth a lands slot.

I'll be running Worm Harvest main to hedge for Miracles. I'll also be hoping that the other decks prey upon Miracles and we face them and have a good matchup.

[CovenantElite30]

I'll be running Worm Harvest main to hedge for Miracles. I'll also be hoping that the other decks prey upon Miracles and we face them and have a good matchup.
What did you cut to fit Worm Harvest in?

I was thinking of cutting a gamble.

Sent from my STV100-1 using Tapatalk

[Djehuti]

I'll be running Worm Harvest main to hedge for Miracles. I'll also be hoping that the other decks prey upon Miracles and we face them and have a good matchup.

It testing, worm harvest and ghost quarter over performed. I tend to see a lot of lands at larger tournaments and those cards are mirror breakers, as well as bojuka bog. Are you running riftstone portal to support the GGG?

[Skyl3lazer]

I've started running a single Back to Nature in my sideboard over the 4th grip, since I'm also running the Boseiju/Boil plan. It helps against the enchantment overload you can see from Miracles. Honestly against miracles it's worth attempting an early rotation for Boseiju, that card just does so much work.

Worm Harvest is fantastic, as is Tireless tracker, but my flex spot is currently a warping wail over the harvest in straight R/G. That might not be correct for a gp to be honest but it's been good in my local meta recently.

Current List:


1 Windswept Heath
1 Manabond
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Misty Rainforest
2 Tranquil Thicket
1 Forest
3 Taiga
4 Exploration
4 Crop Rotation
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
3 Punishing Fire
3 Dark Depths
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
4 Thespian's Stage
1 Warping Wail
1 Ghost Quarter
4 Mox Diamond
4 Wasteland
1 Riftstone Portal
3 Maze of Ith
1 Glacial Chasm
4 Rishadan Port
4 Life from the Loam
4 Gamble
SB: 1 Back to Nature
SB: 1 Karakas
SB: 1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
SB: 3 Krosan Grip
SB: 2 Boil
SB: 4 Sphere of Resistance
SB: 1 Chalice of the Void
SB: 2 Tireless Tracker

[CovenantElite30]

How's everyone's testing going for the GP?

I've been testing with Worm Harvest main as one of the guys on here suggested and it's been doing well against Miracles game 1.

I feel like a good strategy with this change is make sure you win game 1 and then go to time game 2.

It sounds horrible and long but I think that's the best way because after sideboard I think the matchup gets worse.

Side note I play 3 abrupt decays main so that definitely helps with game one and their counterbalances.

[barcode]

How's everyone's testing going for the GP?

I've been testing with Worm Harvest main as one of the guys on here suggested and it's been doing well against Miracles game 1.

I feel like a good strategy with this change is make sure you win game 1 and then go to time game 2.

It sounds horrible and long but I think that's the best way because after sideboard I think the matchup gets worse.

Side note I play 3 abrupt decays main so that definitely helps with game one and their counterbalances.

Note: Stalling will get you disqualified. Don't play slowly with the intent of drawing game 2 for the 1-0-1 win.

I'm testing by goldfishing Aluren. :D I've resigned myself to be relatively unprepared for this event. I'll be playing the white splash for sideboard cards (Teeg and possibly Canonist).

[CovenantElite30]

Note: Stalling will get you disqualified. Don't play slowly with the intent of drawing game 2 for the 1-0-1 win.

I'm testing by goldfishing Aluren. :D I've resigned myself to be relatively unprepared for this event. I'll be playing the white splash for sideboard cards (Teeg and possibly Canonist).

Sorry didn't want to suggest stalling, just that the matchup tends to go really long.

Can you post your decklist? Do you play Sejiri Steppe in your deck? Seems like a pretty good land against white decks.

[barcode]

Sorry didn't want to suggest stalling, just that the matchup tends to go really long.

Can you post your decklist? Do you play Sejiri Steppe in your deck? Seems like a pretty good land against white decks.

I'll post it tonight. No Steppe, it's too narrow, I think.

[barcode]

1x Bojuka Bog
3x Crop Rotation
3x Dark Depths
4x Exploration
1x Forest
4x Gamble
1x Glacial Chasm
4x Grove of the Burnwillows
1x Horizon Canopy
1x Karakas
4x Life from the Loam
3x Maze of Ith
1x Misty Rainforest
4x Mox Diamond
4x Punishing Fire
1x Riftstone Portal
4x Rishadan Port
1x Savannah
2x Taiga
1x The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
4x Thespian's Stage
1x Verdant Catacombs
4x Wasteland
1x Windswept Heath
1x Wooded Foothills
1x Worm Harvest

Sideboard
1x Chalice of the Void
2x Gaddock Teeg
1x Grafdigger's Cage
4x Krosan Grip
1x Pithing Needle
1x Primeval Titan
3x Sphere of Resistance
2x Tireless Tracker


Might sneak in a Ghost Quarter to the main deck which would bring it to 61 cards total.

Thoughts:

The sideboard is unpolished. The Grafdigger's Cage is lowest on the totem pole. Considerations for replacement: Ethersworn Canonist, Containment Priest, Sphere of Resistance, Thrun.

[Domri Rade]

Note: Stalling will get you disqualified. Don't play slowly with the intent of drawing game 2 for the 1-0-1 win.


Is playing cards that make the game go long or go slow the same as playing slow? Pretty sure there are a lot of miracles players who do this intentionally all the time. They will make lines of play that will draw out the game and go to time in G2 if they won the first.

[barcode]

Is playing cards that make the game go long or go slow the same as playing slow? Pretty sure there are a lot of miracles players who do this intentionally all the time. They will make lines of play that will draw out the game and go to time in G2 if they won the first.

No one is under the obligation to win a game but they must proceed with the game at a normal pace. "You don't have to win but you have to not win quickly," is one way to put it.

[chaosjace]

I am going to be testing this lands list, which is essentially throwing your sideboard into the deck.
This build combines everything I enjoy about the deck.

2x Chalice of the Void
4x Wasteland
4x Exploration
4x Grove of the Burnwillows
4x Dark Depths
4x Thespian's Stage
1x Maze of Ith
4x Gamble
4x Rishadan Port
4x Life from the Loam
4x Mox Diamond
1x Verdant Catacombs
4x Crop Rotation
1x Bojuka Bog
4x Sphere of Resistance
1x Forest
4x Punishing Fire
1x Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
2x Taiga
1x Windswept Heath
2x Manabond
2x Tranquil Thicket
1x Riftstone Portal
1x Wooded Foothills
1x Ghost Quarter

[Dice_Box]

No one is under the obligation to win a game but they must proceed with the game at a normal pace. "You don't have to win but you have to not win quickly," is one way to put it.

Also if you are going to play like this, you need to do it from the beginning of the game. Don't start announcing your Manabond triggers each turn only after you're trying to run out the clock. That will get you marked.

[barcode]

I am going to be testing this lands list, which is essentially throwing your sideboard into the deck.
This build combines everything I enjoy about the deck.

2x Chalice of the Void
4x Wasteland
4x Exploration
4x Grove of the Burnwillows
4x Dark Depths
4x Thespian's Stage
1x Maze of Ith
4x Gamble
4x Rishadan Port
4x Life from the Loam
4x Mox Diamond
1x Verdant Catacombs
4x Crop Rotation
1x Bojuka Bog
4x Sphere of Resistance
1x Forest
4x Punishing Fire
1x Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
2x Taiga
1x Windswept Heath
2x Manabond
2x Tranquil Thicket
1x Riftstone Portal
1x Wooded Foothills
1x Ghost Quarter

I expect you will enjoy the aggro loam gameplan: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?16436-Deck-Aggro-Loam

[Claymore]

Yeah, I don't see the point of the Chalices. I can see Sphere though.

I ran into a player who ran a maindeck Crucible and 1x Buried Ruin to grab it. Seemed to work well.

[non-inflammable]

The sideboard is unpolished. The Grafdigger's Cage is lowest on the totem pole. Considerations for replacement: Ethersworn Canonist, Containment Priest, Sphere of Resistance, Thrun.

Don't run the grafdigger's cage out of the SB unless you are siding out worm harvest...

[chaosjace]

Not interested in Aggro loam. I want more of the prison aspect game one without playing RUG, since I traded my trops away. I like the aspect of having a combo and a way to stall. I will try to do some testing soon and post results.

[UnsungHero]

Any lands players at the gp hanging out?

[barfly]

In to day two with 6-2-1. Lost to the mirror and painter. Drew with death and taxes :(

Tireless tracker is insane when uncontested. I had a 15/14 tracker vs miracles. But finished with punishing fire! Got him in game 3 just with fire/grove. Chalice on 1 ftw.

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[barfly]

Some more notes:

* I didn't side in Spheres at all. I didn't play against any spell combo decks in 10 rounds. Wasted slot.
* Every person that wrecked by chalice of the void was surprised that lands was playing the card. Clearly I need more than 1.
* Worm Harvest was surprisingly good...against death and taxes. It would have been good (game 1) against miracles to stabilise vs mentor but I couldn't find it. Would play again.
* Never saw Teeg all weekend, brought in one twice. Would not play again (tracker is way better than Teeg)
* 61st card, ghost quarter, wasn't worth it. I never had time to lock people. Although I did strip one miracles player's single plains, so that was nice.
* Horizon canopy is a trap! Don't play it. Thicket is way better. I lost the mirror because I has canopy and he had thicket. If you have white it's still not worth it.

Deck is still good, but I played a sub optimal version for the weekend.

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[CovenantElite30]

Some more notes:

* I didn't side in Spheres at all. I didn't play against any spell combo decks in 10 rounds. Wasted slot.
* Every person that wrecked by chalice of the void was surprised that lands was playing the card. Clearly I need more than 1.
* Worm Harvest was surprisingly good...against death and taxes. It would have been good (game 1) against miracles to stabilise vs mentor but I couldn't find it. Would play again.
* Never saw Teeg all weekend, brought in one twice. Would not play again (tracker is way better than Teeg)
* 61st card, ghost quarter, wasn't worth it. I never had time to lock people. Although I did strip one miracles player's single plains, so that was nice.
* Horizon canopy is a trap! Don't play it. Thicket is way better. I lost the mirror because I has canopy and he had thicket. If you have white it's still not worth it.

Deck is still good, but I played a sub optimal version for the weekend.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
How did you place? What decks did you face (win / lose)? Why wouldn't you side in spheres versus miracles?

Sent from my STV100-1 using Tapatalk

[jhport12]

In the current meta, I have been wondering about playing Chalice of the Void (or Sphere of Resistance) in the main deck.

With Lands always struggling against combo decks and having a tougher matchup against Miracles (which was heavily represented this weekend at GP Columbus), I am beginning to think it makes sense to bulk up against those match-ups (even if without tax effects like Chalice or Sphere, but something else).

I personally don't splash black in my build as I don't like the addition of a third color. That said, if we want to go into the next tournament with a leg up on Miracles, how might each of you go about it? Is Tireless Tracker really that effective (especially against Mentor Miracles)?

[chaosjace]

Thinking about thorn instead of sphere main deck, definately want more than 2 chalices main, want to test an ancient tomb + lodestone golemns, More PRISON ASPECT

[barfly]

In the current meta, I have been wondering about playing Chalice of the Void (or Sphere of Resistance) in the main deck.

With Lands always struggling against combo decks and having a tougher matchup against Miracles (which was heavily represented this weekend at GP Columbus), I am beginning to think it makes sense to bulk up against those match-ups (even if without tax effects like Chalice or Sphere, but something else).

I personally don't splash black in my build as I don't like the addition of a third color. That said, if we want to go into the next tournament with a leg up on Miracles, how might each of you go about it? Is Tireless Tracker really that effective (especially against Mentor Miracles)?
Tireless tracker is way better than Bob. It is an unbeatable disgusting card advantage engine if it isn't answered immediately. Play it when you can play a fetch, or two lands in the same turn and you'll be ahead. Tracker's clues help protect loam too.

I would run chalice for storm and other similar decks. Thorn isn't good in the corner car when you play UR delver on the play.

I dropped at 6-4-1. Made day two at 6-2-1.

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[CovenantElite30]

Tireless tracker is way better than Bob. It is an unbeatable disgusting card advantage engine if it isn't answered immediately. Play it when you can play a fetch, or two lands in the same turn and you'll be ahead. Tracker's clues help protect loam too.

I would run chalice for storm and other similar decks. Thorn isn't good in the corner car when you play UR delver on the play.

I dropped at 6-4-1. Made day two at 6-2-1.

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What did you lose against and what did you beat?

Tireless tracker is great, I play 2 in the side considering going up to a full 4. Just side out my 4 loams against the graveyard hate.

[barfly]

What did you lose against and what did you beat?

Tireless tracker is great, I play 2 in the side considering going up to a full 4. Just side out my 4 loams against the graveyard hate.
I'll post something fuller when I have a real keyboard tonight:)

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[jarvisyu]

quick report, will probably write something more detailed later.
R3 beat abzan veteran explorer (2-1)
R4 lost to reanimator (1-2)
R5 beat slivers (2-0)
R6 beat G/W eldrazi (2-0) (didn't actually see g/w cards until he showed me after the match, similar to _barook_'s build)
R7 beat miracles (2-1)
R8 beat shardless (2-1)
R9 beat Elves (2-1)

R10 beat grixis delver (2-0)
r11 lost to noah walker grixis delver (0-2)
r12 beat D+T (2-1)
R13 beat sam roukas miracles (2-0)
R14 beat miracles (2-1)
r15 beat Gerry Thompson grixis control (2-1)

r1 of t8 lost to infect 1-2

I'm still 1 point short of gold level pro status, unfortunately... #firstworldproblem.

Decklist was pretty good, but there are a few things I'd change going forward (not maindecking Karakas, and playing the 4th fetchland instead)....

[gigapatrick]

It would have been awesome to see you take it down again, but congratulations on an excellent run. Happy to see that straight RG is still as good as ever.

[P-E]

Jarvis> how were tireless during the weekend ?

[jarvisyu]

Jarvis> how were tireless during the weekend ?

good backup engine that doesn't rely on graveyard. i beat miracles senseless twice with it.

[P-E]

great lands is on my deck to test for euro eternal weekend in october so i'll buy some trackers and test them

[Chatto]

quick report, will probably write something more detailed later.
R3 beat abzan veteran explorer (2-1)
R4 lost to reanimator (1-2)
R5 beat slivers (2-0)
R6 beat G/W eldrazi (2-0) (didn't actually see g/w cards until he showed me after the match, similar to _barook_'s build)
R7 beat miracles (2-1)
R8 beat shardless (2-1)
R9 beat Elves (2-1)

R10 beat grixis delver (2-0)
r11 lost to noah walker grixis delver (0-2)
r12 beat D+T (2-1)
R13 beat sam roukas miracles (2-0)
R14 beat miracles (2-1)
r15 beat Gerry Thompson grixis control (2-1)

r1 of t8 lost to infect 1-2

I'm still 1 point short of gold level pro status, unfortunately... #firstworldproblem.

Decklist was pretty good, but there are a few things I'd change going forward (not maindecking Karakas, and playing the 4th fetchland instead)....


Congrats! Quick question: why the 4th fetch?

[jarvisyu]

Congrats! Quick question: why the 4th fetch?

only 13 t1 red-green sources w/o it. i'd prefer to have 14.

[CovenantElite30]

quick report, will probably write something more detailed later.
R3 beat abzan veteran explorer (2-1)
R4 lost to reanimator (1-2)
R5 beat slivers (2-0)
R6 beat G/W eldrazi (2-0) (didn't actually see g/w cards until he showed me after the match, similar to _barook_'s build)
R7 beat miracles (2-1)
R8 beat shardless (2-1)
R9 beat Elves (2-1)

R10 beat grixis delver (2-0)
r11 lost to noah walker grixis delver (0-2)
r12 beat D+T (2-1)
R13 beat sam roukas miracles (2-0)
R14 beat miracles (2-1)
r15 beat Gerry Thompson grixis control (2-1)

r1 of t8 lost to infect 1-2

I'm still 1 point short of gold level pro status, unfortunately... #firstworldproblem.

Decklist was pretty good, but there are a few things I'd change going forward (not maindecking Karakas, and playing the 4th fetchland instead)....


Great job dude! Your the reason I got into lands, you make the deck look easy to play ;-)

BTW you beat my buddy R14, he said you turned 2ed him one of the games.

I always have difficulties in that match. How was tireless tracker for you? Personally I love that card. What decks did you bring it in for?

[barcode]

Notes from the GP. Decklist is a couple pages back.

Round 1: Bye
Round 2: RG Lands. Loss

I lost this because I didn't keep a hand with acceleration and lost because of it. I kept Ghost Quarter and Loam. It wasn't enough.

Game 2 I lost because he had a Tranquil Thicket and I didn't. I did Bog him late to score a HUGE hit but it was too late.

Learn from me: Be sure to play Tranquil Thicket and keep hands with acceleration.

1-1

Round 3: Death & Taxes. Win

Guy greets me as he sits down with "M'lady" - seriously? LOL. Nothing notable. Easy win. Primeval Titan ftw.

2-1

Round 4: Death & Taxes. Draw

I win game 1 with Worm Harvest, no loams. Didn't expect that at all! Just honest to goodness retracing.

Punted the hell out of this round. I make a Tireless Tracker and Crop Rotated for a Tabernacle at the end of his turn to have more open mana on my own turn (don't ask). He decided ("forgot") to not pay for his 5 creatures (with Worship on board to boot) so I start beating him up. Eventually he landed Mangara to go with his Karakas. Resigned to my fate I untap, attack again, fail to find an answer (my hand was 2 Moxes and 2 Exploration). He untaps and exiles my Tracker to ensure the draw.

What I should have done was copy his Karakas with an on-board Thespian's Stage when he cast Mangara so I could bounce the damn thing and beat him up with my Tireless Tracker. Instead, I decided ("forgot") on the draw.

2-1-1

Round 5: RW Painter. Loss

I double crop rotate in game 2 for the combo. I dredge away all my Krosan Grips in game 3 and lose to bridge the turn before I could have killed him.

Consolation prize: I sided in Grafdigger's Cage blind to hedge against Nahiri and Goblin Welder and got rewarded.

This is basically unbeatable.

Round 6: BUG Delver. Win

This match is auto-win. Nothing notable.

Round 7: Grixis Delver. Win

Another auto-win. Nothing notable.

Round 8: Abzan Loam. Win

Tireless Tracker is bonkers, play it. Opponent stumbled in game 3 on mana and I punished him.

Round 9: UW Miracles. Win

This was a weird game. I lost game 1 and then won games 2 and 3 by Punishing Fire. He was able to make a Monastery Mentor in game 2 to stonewall my 15/14 Tireless Tracker (Sense a pattern on how nuts this card is??) but he was low enough and unlucky enough to miss blind flips and scooped to inevitable punshing fire combo. He learned that it's legal with Surgical Extraction to NOT exile the targeted card.

I crushed him so bad in game 2 that I thought I won game 1 retroactivly. Embarrassing.

Game 3 I chalice for 1 on my first turn and he doesn't really cast very many spells. Punishing Fire gets it done after he tries to run spells into the Chalice as a last ditch effort.

I made it to day 2 as 6-2-1. I was going to drop and play Aluren in the Super Series (it's a pet deck). I slept poor as SHIT going into Sunday and so I wasn't expecting much.

Round 10: Grixis Painter/Counterbalance. Loss

Local player. I don't know him super well, but we've seen each other arond.

Turn 1 Island into Top. Ugh. Anyways, he crushes me.

Game 2 I get him with a turn 2 Tracker as he stumbles on mana, unable to deploy Ensnaring Bridge.

Game 3 I keep a slow hand that has a turn 4 Marit Lage. He plays a Welder and then a Baleful Strix. Shit. I'm locked. I need a Grip for the Counterbalance then Punishing Fires to deal with BOTH Welders before I can attack in for value! He locks me out and I lose.

Cool deck.

Round 11: UW Miracles(?). Loss. Drop.

Another local-ish player. We've played before.

He goes out of control with Mentor and controls Marit Lage with two plows. I can't find Worm Harves, Glacial Chasm or Tabernacle and then die to Mentor + 9 Monks. I hate that card.

Then I mulligan to 5 and have no resources. He plows a turn 3 Tracker (mistake: should have played it on turn 4 to ensure the landfall).

I'm not even sure he was playing Miracles! I didn't see Counterbalance or any miracle cards. That's how bad I got wrecked.

I drop here since I can see the future and it doesn't include me at 6-4-1.

To reiterate: Tireless Tracker is really bonkers. Worm Harvest has weird applications that I didn't expect. Gaddock Teeg is awful, don't bother. Play Tranquil Thicket and not Horizon Canopy.

[jhport12]

Not a fancy GP report, but I did go to the weekly Legacy tournament at my LGS tonight playing a list almost identical to Jarvis Yu's Lands (I play Karakas in SB with Riftstone main and I have 3 Choke instead of Boseiju and Boil).

Match 1 - Storm - Win 2-1
Game 1 - So that went pretty quickly. He plays Gitaxian Probe early, but I don't know for certain that he is on Storm until he goes off. My start (a decent one) is irrelevant.
Game 2 - Turn 2 Sphere, Turn 4 Choke. He Abrupt Decay's the Choke, I topdeck... Choke.
Game 3 - Turn 1 Chalice on 1, Turn 2 Sphere, Turn 3 Choke. I felt almost guilty.

Match 2 - Jund Control? - Win 2-0
Game 1 - I get an early Marit Lage and I don't see much from him other than a Forest, Mountain, Swamp and Deathrite.
Game 2 - He turn 1 Thoughtseizes me: I have Crop Rotation, Exploration, Punishing Fire and Gamble. He takes Crop Rotation because I have Stage in hand (I later tell him I think Exploration is the better target).

Two turns later, he has Wasteland and proxied Bayou, but I thought it was a swamp based on the big skull logo. I have Exploration and play Thespian Stage and Grove, thinking that if he Wastes my Stage, I can make it a Swamp in response. Nope. Stage hits the bin followed by opponent's Surgical Extraction--goodbye Stages. On his Turn 3, he plays Nihil Spellbomb and Deathrite. I have Loam in hand and Punishing Fire in graveyard. I tap Grove to trigger Fire, he Spellbombs in response. Next turn I topdeck... Punishing Fire #2, kill the Deathrite, cast loam and play out two lands. With Loam online I get multiple Groves, Rishadan Ports and one Dark Depths that I slowly tick of 1-2 counters each of his End Steps. He concedes after playing a Wasteland one turn too late.

Match 3 - NicFit? (Veteran Explorer + Cabal Therapy) - Win 2-1

Game 1 - I've never played this match-up before, I don't even really know what it is. He suspects I'm playing Lands and says he's not optimistic. An early Cabal Therapy on a Veteran Explorer whiffs. He has Karakas, but I have Rishadan Port and enough lands to tap Karakas and make Marit Lage on his end of turn.
Game 2 - I don't sideboard well, not knowing what I should bring in. I keep a slow hand (mistake, I should have mulliganed). He gets his land count very high (higher than mine), Surgically Extracts my Loams. I have recurring Punishing fire to kill his threats (including Thragtusk, the 3/3 token, and a 6 cmc Sorin). He plays a Grave Titan which I don't have the mana to deal 6 damage to in one turn. I make a Marit Lage and hope to fly over and kill him in two attacks (I used Grove a ton, so he's at 30). I'm at 10, and I P. Fired the 2/2 zombies. I can survive one attack and hit him a second time to win. As I enter combat to make my 1st attack, he casts Path to Exile. Game over.
Game 3 - I P. Fire his early Deathrite. His Cabal Therapy whiffs. I get a Turn 3-4 Marit Lage and he has nothing.

Match 4 - Delver (Grixis, I believe) - Win 2-1
We agree to split the store credit ($20 each) and play for fun.
Game 1 - I don't remember much from this. I think he Dazes a Gamble, I P. Fire a Delver. I Wasteland lock him and have plenty of time to assemble Marit Lage.
Game 2 - Surgical Extraction gets my Loams, I kill something with P. Fire. I play Chalice of the Void and think maybe I can still assemble the combo, then he plays Gurmag Angler. I don't have Maze, so it goes the distance. I die with a measly P. Fire in my hand.
Game 3 - Mox Diamond, Mox Diamond, Taiga, Loam two lands back into hand, play Manabond (no Force of Will), dump 3-4 more lands onto table. He plays Underground Sea and a Deathrite. I Crop Rotation into Tabernacle, untap, play Wasteland to kill his Underground Sea. He concedes after I cast Loam targeting all three lands in my graveyard (guaranteeing Deathrite won't be able to pay for itself).

I never played Miracles, which is the matchup I want to test (as I expect to see it more than combo decks like Storm, which I did surprisingly well against). I feel that Chalice of the Void is an important card to have against a number of decks. I only have two, but I wonder if a third would be warranted.

I don't have Tireless Trackers yet, but I've got one coming in the mail from Pucatrade. I need 1 Boil in order to switch over to a 1 Boseiju/2 Boil sideboard. Admittedly, Choke was very effective against Storm. Although the fact that I topdecked a second Choke after losing the first one to Abrupt Decay is telling.

[Dice_Box]

Match 3 is known as Nic Fit.

[j2los]

Rules question. Can you activate Stage targeting DD and with that ability on the stack cast Crop Rotation saccing DD? Will Stage still turn into a DD?

[barfly]

Rules question. Can you activate Stage targeting DD and with that ability on the stack cast Crop Rotation saccing DD? Will Stage still turn into a DD?


Yes you can cast rotation. No it won't work the way you want.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

[Mammutti]

Played RG Lands at GP Prague. GQ main, 3 Chalice side. Went 11-4 to a 76th place finish. Missed prizes because of shit breakers.

W Eldrazi 2-0
W Maverick 2-0
W Eldrazi 2-0
L Belcher 1-2
W UR Delver 2-0
W Eldrazi 2-1 (Tomaharu Saito)
W Eldrazi 2-0
W Grixis Delver 2-1
L Miracles 1-0-1
L Lands 1-2
W Grixis Delver 2-0
L Reanimator 1-2
W Burn 2-0
W Jund 2-1
W Grixis Delver 2-1

Had the worst bad beat against Belcher: He went for Blecher and activation, in response I cropped for a Chasm. 5 turns later I had a Chalice on 0, a Sphere and the combo on board to kill him next turn. His 5th draw is.... a 3rd Simian Spirit Guide, and I'm dead. Sure, it is a bad match up anyway.

Overall an amazing weekend. Thanks to all the friends, new and old. Can't wait to go to the next big legacy event. Which will most likely be MKM London in September.

Peace.

[CovenantElite30]

Played RG Lands at GP Prague. GQ main, 3 Chalice side. Went 11-4 to a 76th place finish. Missed prizes because of shit breakers.

W Eldrazi 2-0
W Maverick 2-0
W Eldrazi 2-0
L Belcher 1-2
W UR Delver 2-0
W Eldrazi 2-1 (Tomaharu Saito)
W Eldrazi 2-0
W Grixis Delver 2-1
L Miracles 1-0-1
L Lands 1-2
W Grixis Delver 2-0
L Reanimator 1-2
W Burn 2-0
W Jund 2-1
W Grixis Delver 2-1

Had the worst bad beat against Belcher: He went for Blecher and activation, in response I cropped for a Chasm. 5 turns later I had a Chalice on 0, a Sphere and the combo on board to kill him next turn. His 5th draw is.... a 3rd Simian Spirit Guide, and I'm dead. Sure, it is a bad match up anyway.

Overall an amazing weekend. Thanks to all the friends, new and old. Can't wait to go to the next big legacy event. Which will most likely be MKM London in September.

Peace.


Great finish!

Did you have Tireless Tracker in your board?

[Chatto]

Played RG Lands at GP Prague. GQ main, 3 Chalice side. Went 11-4 to a 76th place finish. Missed prizes because of shit breakers.

Congrats on your great finish! Still impressive stealing a game against Belcher. I saw a mirrormatch on day two: one had Exploration out and a Loam-engine (with Wasteland) going, the other only had a Mox D out. Was this your MU?

[Mammutti]

Congrats on your great finish! Still impressive stealing a game against Belcher. I saw a mirrormatch on day two: one had Exploration out and a Loam-engine (with Wasteland) going, the other only had a Mox D out. Was this your MU?

Yea I played a mirror match as my first match day 2 in the corner of the room. I believe it could have been our second game which I won. And then got crushed g3. I was the guy with a red shirt and blonde hair.


Did you have Tireless Tracker in your board?

I didn't. My board was:

1 Bojuka Bog
1 Karakas
1 Molten Vortex
1 Worm Harvest
4 Krosan Grip
4 Sphere of Resistance
3 Chalice of the Void

I didn't have time to test Tracker properly before the GP, but it seems promising. Will most likely cut a Molten Vortex and Worm Harvest for it. I've heard good things about the guy. I just heard there's a good sized legacy event near my area in two weeks so I will test them there.

[kravkenov]

Rules question. Can you activate Stage targeting DD and with that ability on the stack cast Crop Rotation saccing DD? Will Stage still turn into a DD?

You can do it, but it wont give you a Marit Lage.
The ability of Stage is checked twice (like every target). The first time is when you activate stage (or cast your spell) to know if the target is legale. Then it is checked again on the resolution to know if the target is still legale.
If you Crop Rotation your Depths in response to the ability of Stage, the first check pass (Depth is a legale target), but on the resolution (when the second check is made), there is no more legale target (because you cropped it away), so the spell fizzle.

[Lord_Mcdonalds]

I'm assuming tireless trackers are good against Miracles and any of the Grindy decks (Shardless, Nic Fit, Death and Taxes), anything else I'm not seeing?

[barcode]

I'm assuming tireless trackers are good against Miracles and any of the Grindy decks (Shardless, Nic Fit, Death and Taxes), anything else I'm not seeing?

It's good against any deck that lets you live long enough to cast Tracker and play a land (or two). This includes decks which are actively trying to attack your graveyard.

[Chatto]

It's good against any deck that lets you live long enough to cast Tracker and play a land (or two). This includes decks which are actively trying to attack your graveyard.

At the GP Prague I played in a side-event against 12post. In g2 he was at 30+ life, I took him down to 9 with two Trackers in just two attacks, before he whooped my ass. Ok, I lost the game but TT is the real thing indeed.

[zombie_sky_diver]

For those talking big about Tireless Tracker, do you think he is really any better then Primeval Titan? I have not tried tracker, and can see where he becomes useful, but I feel like Titan has more of an immediate impact... and dodges decay.


Also... 3x Chalice has been a MVP SB slot... would not leave home without it.

[Ciubulu]

Nobody played with the black splash? With this miracle-infested meta seems good to have an out g1 from the CB lock...


Inviato dal mio iPad utilizzando Tapatalk

[barcode]

For those talking big about Tireless Tracker, do you think he is really any better then Primeval Titan? I have not tried tracker, and can see where he becomes useful, but I feel like Titan has more of an immediate impact... and dodges decay.


Also... 3x Chalice has been a MVP SB slot... would not leave home without it.

Titan serves a slightly different purpose. I like Titan when playing against Show & Tell decks and against decks where resolving it just wins the game. It's like putting Angel of Despair into play but better. I admit I went down to one Titan for the GP but he showed up in a Death & Taxes match and won that game immediately.

Titan wins the games right away whereas Tracker is insurmountable card advantage.

[Cfetchcaviar]

Nobody played with the black splash? With this miracle-infested meta seems good to have an out g1 from the CB lock...


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Splashing black does not beat miracles. It just makes the deck less consistent. Play tighter and play boseiju. Played boseiju main and watched two miracles opponents pick up cards after playing it on day one and two. Followed by grumbles of " ugh, you play that main board?"

[CovenantElite30]

Question I would like to ask the group. So I currently play 4 Sphere of resistances in the side along with 2 chalice. I'm debating on going to 3 chalice and cutting one of the spheres. Is this crazy or is 3 chalices just too much?

Sent from my STV100-1 using Tapatalk

[DudeItsCorey]

Titan serves a slightly different purpose. I like Titan when playing against Show & Tell decks and against decks where resolving it just wins the game. It's like putting Angel of Despair into play but better. I admit I went down to one Titan for the GP but he showed up in a Death & Taxes match and won that game immediately.

Titan wins the games right away whereas Tracker is insurmountable card advantage.

For me Tracker seemed like win more? IDK, every time I played him i loaded up on a bunch of clues, but never really had the chance to crack it because I was doing other things with my mana.

[barcode]

For me Tracker seemed like win more? IDK, every time I played him i loaded up on a bunch of clues, but never really had the chance to crack it because I was doing other things with my mana.

Maybe. I find that with Tracker I don't need to cast anything else anymore (maybe the occasional Loam to reset if you draw too many spells). Maybe Port activations? But you should have more mana. Don't use your spells, really, because you can just keep drawing cards to make your Tracker a bigger threat.

[jarvisyu]

Maybe. I find that with Tracker I don't need to cast anything else anymore (maybe the occasional Loam to reset if you draw too many spells). Maybe Port activations? But you should have more mana. Don't use your spells, really, because you can just keep drawing cards to make your Tracker a bigger threat.

This is 100% accurate.

[Claymore]

Awhile back, Smokestack was brought up as a really good answer to Miracles. Tireless Tracker combos well with Smokestack, because Tracker can make a bunch of clues, Stax can sack the clues, and Tracker's +1/+1 ability triggers off of any clue sacrifice - including Stax.

Just a thought, it could be a good combo from the board. Smokestack works well with Loam and Exploration anyway.

[Dice_Box]

Smokestacks is used in the Blue builds.

[jhport12]

I could see an argument about playing Smokestack over Tireless Tracker in the board, but I don't quite see an argument for playing both--even though they have some synergy with each other.

I haven't tried Tireless Tracker yet (should be getting some in the mail soon), but the appeal of a win condition that isn't graveyard dependent is attractive. Against any deck that is slow to kill you and can easily attack your primary game plan (through GY hate, or Revoker/Pithing Needle), the Tracker might be a good solution.

For Miracles, Chalice and Sphere effects seem most important (along with Grips to kill their Counterbalance), but we have so many less-than-great cards against them (4 P. Fire, 3 Maze, 1 Tabernacle, 1 Glacial Chasm, 4 Crop Rotation) that we usually have 9-13 slots available for sideboard cards.

[Chatto]

@ barcode: again you are spot-one regarding PT, and now TT.

@ Cfetchcaviar: playing Boseiju main is actually not a bad idea, with the recent results of Miracles in both Prague and Columbus. I play the straight RG-version, with two Manabond. Cutting one for Boseiju should do the trick.

I have playtested some games against Mentor Miracles. We didn't use the SB, but it was hard. They are so fast, it's insane. I feel like being one step behind all the time. Do you guys feel the same? Any tips or tricks I'm missing? Right now my strategy is stalling with Spheres and burn Mentor to dead, and then deal with the tokens (all the burning should be done in opponents Eot and my turn).

[LegoEgo]

Hey, I rarely Post here since I'm to late mostly to lazy, but whenever that one GP in Europe finishes I write a little bit about it.
My previous scores are 7-4- drop, 6-3, 11-3-1 (top 100) and now this time 8-4 drop.
I wasnt quite satisfied with my performance this year but I changed some things about my list and I think the diffrence between the list from last year to this year might be interesting to some.
I don't have time right now for the list posting but that will come soon. So consider this a teaser ;)

[barcode]

I have playtested some games against Mentor Miracles. We didn't use the SB, but it was hard. They are so fast, it's insane. I feel like being one step behind all the time. Do you guys feel the same? Any tips or tricks I'm missing? Right now my strategy is stalling with Spheres and burn Mentor to dead, and then deal with the tokens (all the burning should be done in opponents Eot and my turn).

Like all miracles builds they are weak to early Rishadan Ports (while we develop our board/mana). Mentor is weak to Tabernacle so that should be the focus. Try for Grove + Punishing Fire + Tabernacle to stem the bleeding, you'll want to go after Mentor end of their turn and then again on your turn if it gets buffed up. If you have access to Worm Harvest in game 1 it will easily overpower the monks.

The matchup sucks because we need to leave a huge number of Punishing Fires in the deck plus the Tabernacle. I like Chalice and Sphere here plus the usual hate cards.

[barcode]

Awhile back, Smokestack was brought up as a really good answer to Miracles. Tireless Tracker combos well with Smokestack, because Tracker can make a bunch of clues, Stax can sack the clues, and Tracker's +1/+1 ability triggers off of any clue sacrifice - including Stax.

Just a thought, it could be a good combo from the board. Smokestack works well with Loam and Exploration anyway.

This is an interesting idea. If this takes off perhaps Buried Ruin is appropriate to go with it. I've liked Smokestack in the blue build of Lands but it seemed out of place in RG...perhaps until now?

[Skyl3lazer]

I've never bothered bringing in spheres against miracles, is it actually worth doing? If so, why?

[Alexeezay]

I tried 3 Thought-Knot Seer in the sideboard at the legacy star event @ GP Prague. To support it, I ran 4 Chalice/2 Thorn to not make Seer cost 5 mana with a Sphere.
It was super strong against Miracles, got forced by SneakShow and took parts of the combo (faced SnT 3 times in a row).
With Exploration you can play it on turn 2 so that's fun...I really like the possibility of a creature plan with Trackers/Thought-Knots/whatever else.

In my experience against Miracle, Chalice is much better than Sphere, not only against Mentor but also to counter Swords for Marit Lage. I might keep the change of 4 Chalice/2 Thorn/Sphere

@Skyl3lazer: I don't like Spheres against Miracles because it slows you down as well and they have so much time unless you got a fast combo...
but against the Mentor version it might be a necessary evil? I would really like insight on this by players like Jarvis Yu or David Long.

[jhport12]

I'm not as enthusiastic about Smokestack against Miracles

Part of why people are using Boil and Boseiju (instead of Choke) is because Miracles players are using Wear//Tear in the board to deal with the Chalices and Spheres that Eldrazi love to play. Smokestack is equally vulnerable to Wear//Tear, and it takes time to set up.

If you can't dredge Loam, having a Smokestack out against Miracles isn't nearly as effective. If we're assuming Smokestack doesn't get countered, I'd rather cast Boil to take out 2+ Islands and get the flexibility of Boil being an instant.

[barcode]

@Skyl3lazer: I don't like Spheres against Miracles because it slows you down as well and they have so much time unless you got a fast combo...
but against the Mentor version it might be a necessary evil? I would really like insight on this by players like Jarvis Yu or David Long.

Completely agree. The first card you want against Mentor Miracles is Chalice of the Void but the next best card is Sphere of Resistance. Don't start bringing in Spheres against all Miracles or you'll hose your own Krosan Grips. Miracles can easily filter land draws with Top and out-mana you!

[jhport12]

I've never bothered bringing in spheres against miracles, is it actually worth doing? If so, why?

It slows them down quite a bit (they have many cheap cantrips along with their other spells) and makes Rishadan Ports even more effective.

We have a lot of dead cards against Miracles, so there's room to bring them in. Some people prefer to keep Punishing Fires in the main against Monastery Mentor, but Jarvis Yu stated last December that he doesn't think that's the best approach and I tend to agree.

[jarvisyu]

It slows them down quite a bit (they have many cheap cantrips along with their other spells) and makes Rishadan Ports even more effective.

We have a lot of dead cards against Miracles, so there's room to bring them in. Some people prefer to keep Punishing Fires in the main against Monastery Mentor, but Jarvis Yu stated last December that he doesn't think that's the best approach and I tend to agree.

fwiw, I've started leaving in 1-2 pfire, but having all four pfires is pretty bad.

I never tried the Tabernacle approach barcode mentioned, and that's probably an oversight on my part not to try.

[Djehuti]

I've never bothered bringing in spheres against miracles, is it actually worth doing? If so, why?

Rudy briksza seems to think so (source: http://articles.mtgcardmarket.com/the-legacy-gauntlet-force-of-will-fair-decks/). I guess instead of reactively dealing with their hate, you pro actively attack their efficiency. I haven't tried it personally so i can't attest.

[barcode]

Rudy briksza seems to think so (source: http://articles.mtgcardmarket.com/the-legacy-gauntlet-force-of-will-fair-decks/). I guess instead of reactively dealing with their hate, you pro actively attack their efficiency. I haven't tried it personally so i can't attest.

In my experience it just doesn't work out against the generic "Miracles Decks"

The best start for Sphere is to play it turn 1 (Mox + Port, even) and if you don't they can (and probably will) play a Sensei top. Once they have a top they can more easily construct a game plan of going late and using top to make land drops. We've got no way to filter our draw so we don't reliably make land drops which means we can fall behind the mana advantage and become unable to cast our reactive spells.

[heckler]

went 2-1 in an 8 man event last night to take 2nd place. won round 1 against burn 2-0; he was a fairly new player and some of his mistakes was the reason I fared so well. Lost round 2 to high tide turns (the overall winner); game 3 i made marit lage 3 turns in a row and he kept up the boomerang effects. I forced him into trying to go off turn 5 or 6 on 5 lands and he made it. Afterwards he told me he was really just going off to find a capsize and try to stall the game further but found the pieces he needed instead. I won round 3 against Deadguy ale 2-1; game 1 I made a token on turn 4. game 2 he had mother, batterskull and a flier along with sword of pro black and enough mana to bounce the equipment. my tireless tracker chumped a 6/6 germ token with pro black and lage was kept in check by the flier. game 3 I had a fast combo into swords. I was able to Pfire his board and crop rotate into the combo again which he drew wasteland. a few turns later I gambled for loam and started over and eventually attacked for lethal.

I brought in tireless trackers against high tide and deadguy matchups. honestly, last night they underperformed for me. I had things i was trying to work with my mana and without acceleration was unable to investigate while putting up a fight.



In my limited experience, boarding in spheres against miracles was a mixed bag. If i could stick them early, I could tax the cantrips and sometimes get openings through force of will. The thing is, they are one part of several you need against miracles; there is no smoking gun card, it's the combination that forms the soft lock. Most of the time I can board out enough cards against miracles where spheres get to make it into the deck.

[jhport12]

In my limited experience, boarding in spheres against miracles was a mixed bag. If i could stick them early, I could tax the cantrips and sometimes get openings through force of will. The thing is, they are one part of several you need against miracles; there is no smoking gun card, it's the combination that forms the soft lock. Most of the time I can board out enough cards against miracles where spheres get to make it into the deck.

I was about to respond to barcode along the same lines: Sphere may not be as good as Chalice, but it is part of a package that is very necessary to compete with Miracles (i.e., the soft lock you are referring to).

Right now, when I play against Miracles I bring in 4 Krosan Grip, 2 Chalice of the Void, 4 Spheres of Resistance and 3 Choke. That is all of my sideboard except for a Karakas and a Bojuka Bog. I take out 4 P. Fire, 3 Maze, 4 Crop Rotation, 1 Manabond and 1 Glacial Chasm. Soon I will begin testing the Boseiju/Boil/Tireless Tracker sideboard.

Whether they play Jace or Mentor main, Sphere slows them down. If they play Snapcaster, it becomes harder to effectively use. Sphere also hinders Mentor token development. It can force them to do things over two turns that they used to do in one turn, giving us more land-drops and more chances to draw stronger hate cards or assemble the combo. Also, Rishadan Ports are important for us in this matchup and Sphere makes Ports better.

[CovenantElite30]

fwiw, I've started leaving in 1-2 pfire, but having all four pfires is pretty bad.

I never tried the Tabernacle approach barcode mentioned, and that's probably an oversight on my part not to try.


When can we expect to see your detailed tournament report?

Are you writing an article for the website your write for?

[Chatto]

Hey, I rarely Post here since I'm to late mostly to lazy, but whenever that one GP in Europe finishes I write a little bit about it.
My previous scores are 7-4- drop, 6-3, 11-3-1 (top 100) and now this time 8-4 drop.
I wasnt quite satisfied with my performance this year but I changed some things about my list and I think the diffrence between the list from last year to this year might be interesting to some.
I don't have time right now for the list posting but that will come soon. So consider this a teaser ;)

Looking forward to your report, and curious about your list :smile:

@ Alexeezay: did a friend of yours played Solidarity?

[.Ix]

Tired of losing to the random fast combo decks that I keep seeing here. Starting 0-1 in most of my matches is tough. I'm playing this 61-card list tonight:

4 Sphere of Resistance
2 Chalice of the Void

4 Crop Rotation
4 Gamble
3 Punishing Fire
4 Exploration
4 Mox Diamond
4 Life from the Loam

1 Bojuka Bog
3 Dark Depths
1 Glacial Chasm
2 Maze of Ith
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Karakas
4 Rishadan Port
2 Taiga
4 Thespian's Stage
1 Tranquil Thicket
1 Forest
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
2 Wooded Foothills
1 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland

I cut 1 Punishing Fire, 1 Maze, 1 Riftstone Portal, 1 Dark Depths, 1 Manabond, 1 Tranquil Thicket from the stock RGCL to get here.

SB:
4 Krosan Grip
2 Choke
2 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 Zuran Orb
2 Tireless Tracker
1 Chalice of the Void
1 Dark Depths
1 Punishing Fire
1 Maze of Ith

Probably terrible, but it seems like it's got a better chance of beating combo than stock.

[barcode]

Tired of losing to the random fast combo decks that I keep seeing here. Starting 0-1 in most of my matches is tough. I'm playing this 61-card list tonight:

4 Sphere of Resistance
2 Chalice of the Void

4 Crop Rotation
4 Gamble
3 Punishing Fire
4 Exploration
4 Mox Diamond
4 Life from the Loam

1 Bojuka Bog
3 Dark Depths
1 Glacial Chasm
2 Maze of Ith
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Karakas
4 Rishadan Port
2 Taiga
4 Thespian's Stage
1 Tranquil Thicket
1 Forest
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
2 Wooded Foothills
1 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland

I cut 1 Punishing Fire, 1 Maze, 1 Riftstone Portal, 1 Dark Depths, 1 Manabond, 1 Tranquil Thicket from the stock RGCL to get here.

SB:
4 Krosan Grip
2 Choke
2 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 Zuran Orb
2 Tireless Tracker
1 Chalice of the Void
1 Dark Depths
1 Punishing Fire
1 Maze of Ith

Probably terrible, but it seems like it's got a better chance of beating combo than stock.

32 lands and 4 moxes? wat

[jhport12]

Can I suggest something that I've been contemplating myself?

Take advantage of the fact that Lands has 4 Gambles. 1 Chalice and 1 Sphere may be enough to improve the Game 1 matchup (maybe one Buried Ruin for recursion?).

Chalice is good against so many decks, so replacing a Maze (or a Punishing Fire) for one might be a net positive.

[Alexeezay]

Chatto: Yes, he did. We had a lot of local players at Prague :) In case you're wondering, my deck is signed/japanese/german fbb duals. Can't wait to test tracker/thought-knot

[.Ix]

32 lands and 4 moxes? wat

35 lands gives us 99.82% chance of having a land in hand. 32 gets 99.69. I'm not sure it's going to matter too much since the chance of having mox is just 39.95%. Even if it does, having slightly worse moxes could be a fine tradeoff for a large gain in combo wins game 1 in a heavy combo meta.


Jhport12, 1 Chalice 1 Sphere should be enough in low combo metas. That's a good idea. Gives the deck a 54% chance of having at least one lock piece assuming Gamble never discards the lock piece.

This build could suck donkey balls for all I know, but I've been boarding in the Spheres in most games anyway. Might as well try it.

[Chatto]

Chatto: Yes, he did. We had a lot of local players at Prague :) In case you're wondering, my deck is signed/japanese/german fbb duals. Can't wait to test tracker/thought-knot

I think we might briefly talked after your friend fizzled, and I was able to make a Witch-token ftw. Tracker is bonkers indeed :smile: : easy to cast, cardadvantage, and a pretty fast wincon.



This build could suck donkey balls for all I know, but I've been boarding in the Spheres in most games anyway. Might as well try it.

Looking forward to your report!

[.Ix]

Pretty easy 4-0.

R1 some sort of goblin aggro deck.
2-0 Depths takes both games.

1-0 in matches

R2 Omnitell
G1 turn 1 sphere turn 3 sphere. We draw go forever and i get absolutely nothing until he has something like 9 mana. I find Depths and pass. He Shows Omniscience, casts Ancestral Knowledge, passes, and scoops.
G2 I chalice T1 and Sphere soon after. I find Marit Lage and win.

4-0 in games
2-0 in matches

R3 MUD (of course I have to play the matchup that my tech does nothing against!)
G1 land, exploration, land, go. He casts a turn 1(!) Lodestone and passes. I play another land and pass. He casts chalice on 1 and I respond with Crop Rotation for Maze. I don't remember what I play here. He has the Wasteland for my Maze swings, casts Metalworker. I find Marit Lage and win at 4 life.
G2 He plays Monolith and Trinisphere. I have Waste and Loam, so I play towards locking him out under his own sphere. It works out. He keeps making land drops and playing nothing until he runs out of land. Tabernacle kills his Golem and that's it.

6-0 games
3-0 matches

R4 UR Delver
G1 t1 Delver. I play Sphere. He misses a land drop and I have port. I play Chalice and Tabernacle. He tries to Ponder off 1mana, realizes he can't, and scoops.
G2 he gets the t1 delver, I get the t1 chalice. His entire hand is dead and he scoops after the Punishing Fire loop appears.

8-0 games
4-0 matches.

It was very smooth. I never ran into a crap Mox. Had to mulligan only 2 times, I think. I remember casting Chalice when I could have Gambled for something. I would probably play this build again locally. Had Tireless Trackers in the board. I brought them in against MUD but I didn't want to cast it.

[jhport12]

Love the report. It confirms some things I've been suspecting.

I mean, there's a reason Eldrazi pack 4 Chalice and 4 Sphere (or Thorns, rather, b/c they have creatures). They are really effective at slowly down many decks. I mean, Eldrazi has little to nothing in terms of card advantage or card selection.

If we have 4 Ports and 4 Wastelands and we want to control the game so we can combo, Chalice and Sphere both advance that cause--along with heavily hurting Combo/Miracles along the way.

I don't think I like going down to 32 land, but I also don't think I need 4 Spheres. The great thing about Game 1 is that people haven't boarded in artifact/enchantment removal. Abrupt Decays and counter-magic are largely their options.

[Alexeezay]

Hey cool, I didn't know that was you :)
See you at Prague Eternal in a few months, Chatto?

[j2los]

Anyone have any advice on sideboarding?

I have the following questions, specifically:

What helps the Eldrazi matchup?
What all decks are Chalice good against?
What all decks are Tireless Tracker good against?
What all decks (other than quick combo decks) are tax spheres good against?
There's all sorts of great Miracles options, but what all do you take out? Or do you just run a more conservative Miracles sb?



Also, if anyone has any interest, I started this collaborative spreadsheet for sideboarding guidelines, if we as a deck community are interested in helping others learn the best practices for Lands sideboarding. It is incomplete and I am probably already wrong on quite a few things, but it's there. It's a basic stock RG list since the goal here is to learn whats are good to board in and out moreso than strict deckbuilding rules.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1dQvvF_hiMvTOuT_-C0twoC1rUIbMVsYVv3WQxRgKCLY/edit?usp=sharing

[Alexeezay]

Anyone have any advice on sideboarding?

I have the following questions, specifically:

What helps the Eldrazi matchup?
What all decks are Chalice good against?
What all decks are Tireless Tracker good against?
What all decks (other than quick combo decks) are tax spheres good against?
There's all sorts of great Miracles options, but what all do you take out? Or do you just run a more conservative Miracles sb?


- Eldrazi is a good matchup, not much help needed.
- Chalice is mainly for Storm, Miracles but also Elves or Delver.
- Tracker is good in grindy matchups/vs. midrange and control decks: Miracles, Shardless, Aggro Loam, Maverick,...
- Sphere is also good vs Show and Tell decks, Elves or Aluren. Some people like it vs Miracles.
- Personally, I take out Crop Rotations, 1-2 Punishing Fire, Manabond, Maze Of Ith, Glacial Chasm.

[j2los]

- Eldrazi is a good matchup, not much help needed.
- Chalice is mainly for Storm, Miracles but also Elves or Delver.
- Tracker is good in grindy matchups/vs. midrange and control decks: Miracles, Shardless, Aggro Loam, Maverick,...
- Sphere is also good vs Show and Tell decks, Elves or Aluren. Some people like it vs Miracles.
- Personally, I take out Crop Rotations, 1-2 Punishing Fire, Manabond, Maze Of Ith, Glacial Chasm.

Thanks, this is good info. Are you saying you don't make any sideboard changes against Eldrazi? Is that common? Typical sideboard does seem weak against them. I could see a Ghost Quarter if you're running it. Maybe Krosan Grips are ok? Do you side out PFires since they only hit a couple of their creatures? Grips seem slightly better than PFires, but I have never played the matchup.

[.Ix]

Love the report. It confirms some things I've been suspecting.

I mean, there's a reason Eldrazi pack 4 Chalice and 4 Sphere (or Thorns, rather, b/c they have creatures). They are really effective at slowly down many decks. I mean, Eldrazi has little to nothing in terms of card advantage or card selection.

If we have 4 Ports and 4 Wastelands and we want to control the game so we can combo, Chalice and Sphere both advance that cause--along with heavily hurting Combo/Miracles along the way.

I don't think I like going down to 32 land, but I also don't think I need 4 Spheres. The great thing about Game 1 is that people haven't boarded in artifact/enchantment removal. Abrupt Decays and counter-magic are largely their options.


The thing about running only 1 Sphere Game 1 is that most combo decks can just draw out of it because many of the games take a long time to close unless a quick Marit Lage shows up. I have Stormed through Thalia so many times. My Round 2 opponent could even Show and Tell through 2 Spheres. It can definitely be enough against Belcher, though.

j2los Sphere is pretty good against Delver.

[Jaytron]

Anyone have any advice on sideboarding?

I have the following questions, specifically:

What helps the Eldrazi matchup?
What all decks are Chalice good against?
What all decks are Tireless Tracker good against?
What all decks (other than quick combo decks) are tax spheres good against?
There's all sorts of great Miracles options, but what all do you take out? Or do you just run a more conservative Miracles sb?



Also, if anyone has any interest, I started this collaborative spreadsheet for sideboarding guidelines, if we as a deck community are interested in helping others learn the best practices for Lands sideboarding. It is incomplete and I am probably already wrong on quite a few things, but it's there. It's a basic stock RG list since the goal here is to learn whats are good to board in and out moreso than strict deckbuilding rules.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1dQvvF_hiMvTOuT_-C0twoC1rUIbMVsYVv3WQxRgKCLY/edit?usp=sharing

That sheet is pretty sweet. I dig it.

[Alexeezay]

Thanks, this is good info. Are you saying you don't make any sideboard changes against Eldrazi? Is that common? Typical sideboard does seem weak against them. I could see a Ghost Quarter if you're running it. Maybe Krosan Grips are ok? Do you side out PFires since they only hit a couple of their creatures? Grips seem slightly better than PFires, but I have never played the matchup.
Fire is still fine to kill Seer with double fire, Matter Reshaper, Eldrazi Mimics, Endless One so that you stop their fast hands - which also works with Tabernacle: t1 Eye into 3 Mimic, your t1: play tabernacle :tongue::tongue:
Personally I only cut 1 Manabond 1 Karakas for 2 Krosan Grips (Karakas is maindeck).

[Chatto]

Hey cool, I didn't know that was you :)
See you at Prague Eternal in a few months, Chatto?

I'm not sure yet, i would like to go to Eternal Weekend Paris as well... Maybe :smile:


Thanks, this is good info. Are you saying you don't make any sideboard changes against Eldrazi? Is that common? Typical sideboard does seem weak against them. I could see a Ghost Quarter if you're running it. Maybe Krosan Grips are ok? Do you side out PFires since they only hit a couple of their creatures? Grips seem slightly better than PFires, but I have never played the matchup.

I only Side in some K-Grip, and one Ancient Grudge. Most of the time I side some K-Grip in, just for the artifact-hate like Needle or CotV. Maindeck is strong as it is. I personally shave some Gamble, Thicket, and Manabond, but that's not set in stone or anything.

[Ciubulu]

Quite new to the deck but I don't think that spheres+chalice will be good md unless you already knows that the opponent is combo. If my opponent is on the play and starts with something like usea + ponder a T1 gamble for a lock piece imho is a mistake unless you already have everything in hand.


Inviato dal mio iPad utilizzando Tapatalk

[jhport12]

I don't think anyone is currently asserting that you main deck Chalice/Sphere exclusively to defeat the combo decks (e.g., Storm, Sneak & Show, Reanimator or Elves). They can also be effective against Miracles and Delver (Miracles being the biggest share of the meta, Delver decks not being too far behind, and both relying on a lot of 1 cc spells to function properly).

Also, I don't think anyone is recommending that we Gamble for it on Turn 1. I believe you are describing a scenario that is a questionable play (in a general sense) because of how little information you have regarding your opponent's deck, regardless of what you might choose to Gamble for.

The overarching question, I think, is whether in the current meta there is a benefit to having a main deck that can perform better against Miracles and combo (and where it is not outweighed by the negatives of replacing other cards).

[.Ix]

I don't think anyone is currently asserting that you main deck Chalice/Sphere exclusively to defeat the combo decks (e.g., Storm, Sneak & Show, Reanimator or Elves). They can also be effective against Miracles and Delver (Miracles being the biggest share of the meta, Delver decks not being too far behind, and both relying on a lot of 1 cc spells to function properly).

Also, I don't think anyone is recommending that we Gamble for it on Turn 1. I believe you are describing a scenario that is a questionable play (in a general sense) because of how little information you have regarding your opponent's deck, regardless of what you might choose to Gamble for.

The overarching question, I think, is whether in the current meta there is a benefit to having a main deck that can perform better against Miracles and combo (and where it is not outweighed by the negatives of replacing other cards).

Agree with this.

My meta is mostly Combo, so I'm pretty sure a build with Spheres and Chalice MD is better here. There are only a few decks that Sphere is bad against locally, and they still seem to be good matchups. MUD and Eldrazi are the two most obvious, then maybe the various Vial decks but those aren't too hard to beat. I'm considering going -1 Chalice +1 Thorn MD though, just because it affects Lands less than Chalice does.

[Ciubulu]

What I meant is that there are very few specific situations when I would be happy to gamble for a lock piece over an engine or the combo but as I said I'm quite new to the deck (got my tabernacle a month ago and I will attend my first tourney with it later today) and I have no experience with it outside testing with friends. At the moment my list is pretty stock, only changes from @jarvisyu (congratulation for your top8) are the 4th fetch and boseiju main (I have 3 punishing fires)


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[jhport12]

In Game 1 Turn 1 on the play, you will not know enough about your opponent's deck to do anything other than Gamble for a key card for your primary strategy. However, if you are on the draw, or it is a turn or two into the game, you may have enough information to know that a Chalice or Sphere would help you more than a combo/engine piece.

For example, if someone casts Gitaxian Probe or Top on Turn 1, that might make me think Storm and Miracles, respectively. For Storm: I want Chalice ASAP. For Miracles: if I have the combo in hand, then I want to stop Swords to Plowshares. If I don't have the combo, I may want to lock them out of Top/Ponder/Brainstorm, which makes Counterbalance far less effective for them. There may also be times where just getting a Loam in the yard or an Exploration into play is so attractive that I risk running straight into countermagic.

The more I talk about Miracles, the more I convince myself to run Boseiju in the main. Game 1 can be really tough if they get Counterbalance online or they Swords your first Marit Lage.

[Sibelius]

Few quick points

Play Worm Harvest main if you need some help vs miracles.

(in the sideboarding link posted above)
Don't take out wasteland against Elves. Gaea's Cradle answers Tabernacle so we need a way to deal with that.
Bring in Molten Vortex vs D and T
Bring in 4 kgrip in the lands mirror
You need to consider taking out Thicket more often. its good vs surgical and Clique and grindy matchups but sb cards are often better than it in many matchups
(in the sideboarding link posted above)

Sib

[Chatto]

(...) The more I talk about Miracles, the more I convince myself to run Boseiju in the main. Game 1 can be really tough if they get Counterbalance online or they Swords your first Marit Lage.

I don't exactly who already played it main, but i've decided to do the same. Haven't got a lot of practise with MD Boseiju yet, but with Miracles still being a big contender, in theory it should be a big play.

[Sibelius]

I don't exactly who already played it main, but i've decided to do the same. Haven't got a lot of practise with MD Boseiju yet, but with Miracles still being a big contender, in theory it should be a big play.

Seriously play MD worm harvest instead. It has game against the other decks in the format as well. I went 3-0-1 vs miracles at Prague with it.

Sib

[barcode]

Bring in Molten Vortex vs D and T


Why enable their Phyrexian Revokers? Just use Punishing Fire.

[Chatto]

Seriously play MD worm harvest instead. It has game against the other decks in the format as well. I went 3-0-1 vs miracles at Prague with it.

Sib

Another card I should and will try.

[Sibelius]

Why enable their Phyrexian Revokers? Just use Punishing Fire.

Because Molten Vortex deals with their entire deck and Revoker is not a 4 of after board?
Because having a way to deal with Thalia against the mana denial deck is great?
Are you actually serious that you wouldn't bring it it against D and T, yet you would on the off chance a Shardless player is on the Meddling Mage plan? (FYI I would bring it in here as well)
Your reasoning to not have the card is narrow and wrong.

[jhport12]

Seriously play MD worm harvest instead. It has game against the other decks in the format as well. I went 3-0-1 vs miracles at Prague with it.

Sib

I have seen Miracles rocking Blood Moons lately, did that ever come up when you were casting Worm Harvest against them? I have never played with Worm Harvest, myself.

What other matchups would you bring it in for?

[Sibelius]

I have seen Miracles rocking Blood Moons lately, did that ever come up when you were casting Worm Harvest against them? I have never played with Worm Harvest, myself.

What other matchups would you bring it in for?

I think most people are playing a Riftstone Portal at the moment so Sideboard Blood Moons should not be a problem.

I am suggesting playing the Worm Harvest Main Deck to give you a slightly better G1. Miracles do not have Blood Moon Game 1.

If you want to play it from the board I would bring it in vs Miracles and Painter decks. In combination with Riftstone Portal it allows you to still loam aggressively so as to find the Worm Harvest. Decks playing Moon don't usually have an answer to a bunch of 1/1s against your deck post board.

Sib

[Chatto]

I think most people are playing a Riftstone Portal at the moment so Sideboard Blood Moons should not be a problem.

I am suggesting playing the Worm Harvest Main Deck to give you a slightly better G1. Miracles do not have Blood Moon Game 1.

If you want to play it from the board I would bring it in vs Miracles and Painter decks. In combination with Riftstone Portal it allows you to still loam aggressively so as to find the Worm Harvest. Decks playing Moon don't usually have an answer to a bunch of 1/1s against your deck post board.

Sib

Nope, no Riftstone Portal. I'm sure it will help, but still: the cmc is pretty high.

[barcode]

Because Molten Vortex deals with their entire deck and Revoker is not a 4 of after board?
Because having a way to deal with Thalia against the mana denial deck is great?
Are you actually serious that you wouldn't bring it it against D and T, yet you would on the off chance a Shardless player is on the Meddling Mage plan? (FYI I would bring it in here as well)
Your reasoning to not have the card is narrow and wrong.

Actually, I wouldn't have it in my 75 at all for reasons I've mentioned multiple times in the thread. If you're having success with it then kudos.

[chaosjace]

Went to another event with RG Lands, had some silly stuff main deck, lost every round.
Round 1 was the mirror
Won the first game on turn 3, game 2 he has crucible and wastelands and he out races me, game 3 we are both in a position to lage, I am not paying attention to his board state I attack, he taps my karakas and makes his own token. (I made the huge mistake of attacking)

Round 2 Bye, (I came here to play magic yo )

Round 3 I played against my buddy playing Reanimator, I went first both games and he turn 1 killed me both games. (no mistakes were made though)

Round 4 I dropped because small event and everyone just cut.

I am going to switch back to stock RG lands, possibly just switch to Miracles, the meta I am going against is just not fit for lands. Almost everyone at this place was playing combo.

[Djehuti]

Went to eternal extravaganza over the weekend. Several miracles players were running MD ruination. I hope this is just a fad :cry:

[Chatto]

Went to eternal extravaganza over the weekend. Several miracles players were running MD ruination. I hope this is just a fad :cry:

That... really... sucks... Suddenly the Miracles-MU became very hard. Really hope it won't become a real thing. Have you played against one of those Miracles-list?

[Sengir]

Went 7-2 at Eternal Extravaganza 4 with RG Lands, missed out on the Top 8 :frown: Did however take home a Tropical Island from winnings, and got to tune my play for SCG Worcester in 3 weeks.

I got the play vs 3 Sneak/Show, 1 Reanimator, 2 Lands (RG and RG-B Splash), 1 Death n Taxes, 1 BUG Delver w Bob, 1 RUG Delver.

If anyone's interested I can go into more detail.

[filln]

Went 7-2 at Eternal Extravaganza 4 with RG Lands, missed out on the Top 8 :frown: Did however take home a Tropical Island from winnings, and got to tune my play for SCG Worcester in 3 weeks.

I got the play vs 3 Sneak/Show, 1 Reanimator, 2 Lands (RG and RG-B Splash), 1 Death n Taxes, 1 BUG Delver w Bob, 1 RUG Delver.

If anyone's interested I can go into more detail.

Congrats! Definitely interested in any detail you can provide on your matchups, as well as your sideboard choices/decklist if you added any spice to it.

[djxstream]

I was also at EE4, but dropped after 3-4, i'll write a small report up later but now i just want to ask a question on what you guys would do.

I was playing RG, no black splash (side note, talked to david long at the event, he is also off the black splash, using tireless tracker and warping wail in the board)

Vs Storm game 3. I keep this hand on the draw: port, port, mox, chalice, depths, wasteland, fetch.
gives me a ton of options, waste a dual land, port lockdown, chalice at 1 or 0. hopefully buy enough time to find the stage or crop rotation.

my opponent goes swamp, pass.

...I went mox (ditching fetch), port, chalice for zero, and ported his lonely swamp. What move would you have made?

end result, this worked for about 5 turns until he found a bayou, emptied his hand with 4 rituals ( i think 2 dark, 2 cabal), a countered LED via chalice (just to pump storm count), and double tendrlis.

[The_Dingo]

I also played RG lands at EE4, finishing 6-3. The tournament venue was super miserably hot, and I was running on 1-2 hours of sleep, so I crashed and burned around round 4 in terms of game play. The deck mostly saved my bacon despite my poor play, and some of my opponents got just plain unlucky for me to beat them.

My opponents were the redeeming factor for the tournament. Everyone I played against was cool, despite the wretched conditions.

My decklist was…

4 gamble
4 life from the loam
4 exploration
4 mox diamond
4 crop rotation
4 punishing fire
2 molten vortex

3 green fetch
2 taiga
1 forest
4 wastelqnd
4 rishadan port
4 grove of the burnwillows
4 thespian stage
3 dark depths
3 maze of ith
2 tranquil thicket
1 tabernacle
1 glacial chasm
1 bojuka bog
1 ghost quarter
1 riftstone portal

4 sphere of resistance
1 chalice of the void
2 tireless tracker
4 krosan grip
1 ancient grudge
1 boseiju who shelters all
2 boil

I should probably explain that the 2 molten vortex replaced the 2 manabond that I usually play because I've been unhappy with manabond in recent days, and I've been seeing tons of DRS in my local meta and wanted more ways to fight that card. Moving it to the main also created a slot in the SB to mess with. My list was 61 cards to fit in the ghost quarter, which was utterly useless. For future events I’ll probably try a 1/1 split of vortex and manabond, and cut the ghost quarter entirely.

R1 2-0 vs Grixis control. The blue was just for cantrips and strix.
R2 2-0 vs mono B reanimator.
R3 2-0 vs MUD.
R4 2-1 vs RGCL mirror.
R5 2-1 vs DnT.
R6 0-2 vs miracles.
R7 0-2 vs SnT
R8 2-0 vs manaless dredge.
R9 1-2 Vs DnT.

[chaosjace]

Ruination is harsh, considering some miracles players are MD back to basics

[Djehuti]

That... really... sucks... Suddenly the Miracles-MU became very hard. Really hope it won't become a real thing. Have you played against one of those Miracles-list?

I played 4 color loam at the event and my round 1 opponent made a point to show off his main board tech. I can only speculate on how effective lands would have been against this person instead of 4c loam. This one was playing a legends shell which is notoriously better against lands than the traditional miracles builds.

[barcode]

I was also at EE4, but dropped after 3-4, i'll write a small report up later but now i just want to ask a question on what you guys would do.

I was playing RG, no black splash (side note, talked to david long at the event, he is also off the black splash, using tireless tracker and warping wail in the board)

Vs Storm game 3. I keep this hand on the draw: port, port, mox, chalice, depths, wasteland, fetch.
gives me a ton of options, waste a dual land, port lockdown, chalice at 1 or 0. hopefully buy enough time to find the stage or crop rotation.

my opponent goes swamp, pass.

...I went mox (ditching fetch), port, chalice for zero, and ported his lonely swamp. What move would you have made?

end result, this worked for about 5 turns until he found a bayou, emptied his hand with 4 rituals ( i think 2 dark, 2 cabal), a countered LED via chalice (just to pump storm count), and double tendrlis.

Here's my ranking for Storm hate in order that I want to do it:


Turn 1 Sphere
Turn 1 Chalice for 1
Turn 1 Chalice for 0


Assuming I had all options available to me I'm playing the sphere first and if I can only do #2 or #3 then I'm going to Chalice for 1. If I had Exploration OR Chalice for 1 I would play the Chalice. The risk of dying is too great to risk it.

Chalice for 0 is extremely important but the 1 CMC spells are more important.

This matchup really rewards having low CMC threats we can deploy like Tireless Tracker or Dark Confidant. Given infinite time Storm will break free and we'll lose. Lock them out and then kill them ASAP.

[filln]

@The_Dingo: Thoughts on using three fetch instead of the standard four? Have seen a few lists trying it out, including Jarvis', though he did mention he would want to move back to four.

[The_Dingo]

@The_Dingo: Thoughts on using three fetch instead of the standard four? Have seen a few lists trying it out, including Jarvis', though he did mention he would want to move back to four.

I've been playing 3 fetches since I started playing with the deck, about a year and a half, so I can't really comment on the difference between 3 and 4, but 3 has worked very well for me.

[Chatto]

@The_Dingo: Thoughts on using three fetch instead of the standard four? Have seen a few lists trying it out, including Jarvis', though he did mention he would want to move back to four.

Since when are four Fetches standard? I only went up to four during my brief period playing RGb, which I dropped because it just wasn't my cup of tea. Moved back to RG and three Fetches without hesitation.

[U_mage]

4 seems slightly better with TT in the board now

[Alexeezay]

3 Fetch 3 Taiga is fine for me.

[filln]

Since when are four Fetches standard? I only went up to four during my brief period playing RGb, which I dropped because it just wasn't my cup of tea. Moved back to RG and three Fetches without hesitation.

My mistake, I swear I've always seen four fetch for most lists but looking back at mtgtop8 I do see a lot of three fetch. Sorry about that. :)

[barcode]

I played 3 fetches (and 3 Taiga) for all of last year culminating in a top 32 finish at Legacy Champs after 11 rounds of swiss. This year I've played 4 fetches (3 Taiga currently and previously 2 Taiga + Bayou or Savannah depending on the tests) so I'm somewhat qualified to give an opinion:

I prefer 3 fetchlands with 3 Taiga and a forest. It's frequent that the 4th fetchland is close to dead draw (saving discarding to a random Mox or Crop Rotating it away). This calculus changes very minorly if you have Riftstone Portal in the deck since that fetch turns into a Savannah. More fetchlands is obviously better for a Tireless Tracker sideboard plan but we all have to ask of ourselves: is it worth it to dilute main deck? Is the 4th fetch better than the first Karakas or Bojuka Bog? I don't believe it is. If you're playing four fetches without a maindeck Karakas or Bojuka bog please cut the 4th fetch and add one of those two cards to your maindeck and free up a sideboard slot. Try it out, you'll like it.

[chaosjace]

I've always run 3 fetches 2 Taiga and 1 Forest, my argument is you got the color fixing when you need it, and if you need a loam target having more fetches doesn't really help, unless you get riftstone portal in your GY, I just feel like having more fetches than fetch able sources doesn't work statistically, ( with no actual math done on my end)

[Sengir]

EE4 was pretty hot, I don't think the AC was running all the time... It was on in the mall though, and I hung out under an AC vent between a few of the matches :rolleyes:

Ran a pretty standard RG list, included Bog and Boseiju maindeck, no riftstone portal.

SB consisted of 4xSphere, 1xChalice, 4Grip, 1xKarakas, 2xTracker, 1xVortex, 2xBoil. Last three may well be changed, and I will be testing vs sneak show MUCH more as I made mistakes.

I can give a summary of the matches.

Match 1: John on RG-B Splash Lands 2:1
G1: He crop rotated a bog into play removing my loam, I drew another loam, and he crop rotated for wasteland targeted his bog, and recurred with loam. I conceeded after a few turns when he also dropped an exploration and essentially locked me out.
G2: In trackers and grips. This time I crop rotated a Bog into his loam on the second turn and then dropped a tracker into play. Beat with tracker and used clue tokens to pull ahead while he never drew anything that mattered.
G3: Got a quick exploration into play with loam and wasteland to begin a lock. When I got dredged out a second wasteland and the depths combo, he conceeded with I think a port and mox in play and no loam.

Match 2 Wes on Omni Sneak/Show 0:2
G1: He went first, dropped 2xlotus petal, fetched an island, cast show and tell, dropped in omni, cast emrakul. Brutal.
G2: In spheres, grip, tracker, karakas, chalice. I was forced to mull to 4. His deck did what i was supposed to do. Dropped a sneak attack, griselbrand entered 14 cards were drawn, and emrakul joined the party.

Match 3 Tommy on Sneak/Show 0:2
G1: His deck did what it does, emrakul/griselbrand crushed me without much resistance.
G2: Same sb for me. Game drew out with a sneak attack on the board for him and a emrakul in hand, with a karakas in play for me and an exploration and loam active. I gripped his sneak attack at the end of one of his turns, and he cast blood moon on his following turn, essentially ending the match with all 4 grips and all tracker in the graveyard. Stupid play on my part, I conceeded the match.

Match 4 Richard on RUG Delver (I think) 2-0
G1: Not much for notes on this one, I quickly got out a marit lage who did her thing.
G2: In trackers, vortex. He dropped a deathrite into play and forced my exploration. Goyf followed up and I pfired his deathrite. I dropped a tracker and which quickly became bigger than the 3/4 goyf with a few fetchland drops. The goyf chump blocked, he cast another, it chump blocked, he did a little digging with brainstorm and then shortly after died.

Match 5 Jonathan on DNT 2-1
G1: I got a quick wasteland/rishadan port/tabernacle/loam lock and he conceeded.
G2: I started to get my engine going while he played thalia and a factory. Sacred ground came into play and I got stuck with 2xloams never drew anything relevant and died to the aforementioned beats.
G3: I got exploration into play and started loaming while he droped vial and then thalia into play and started beating. Found a Maze and rishadan port/wasteland while he dropped into play karakas and mangara. He fired mangara off at Maze of Ith in my endstep and tried to hold priority with a vial on 3? I crop rotated out maze for tabernacle. A judge was called over who ruled that mangara's ability didnt remove her if the target was already removed??? Anyhow he'd tapped vial, I pfired mangara dead in resp. From here on I was able the waste/tabernacle lock him out and find stage/depths combo for a conceed.

Match 6 Steve on Sneak Show (again?) 2:1
G1: This game went long me with exploration and part of the depths combo. He cast a sneak attack and then activated, I cast a crop rotation and got depths. Griselbrand came into play and drew 14 cards and then died to marit who blocked. I attacked with marit who was chump blocked by another griselbrand who gained him another 7 cards. He cast a jace next turn and bounced marit. At this point he had 3-4 lands and a petal, while I had 10+ lands and maze among them. I got another marit into play and attacked into another griselbrand who drew him 7 cards and while I mazed my marit... I began to loam back the combo and bogged his graveyard. He drew with jace and found an emrakul which was mazed and I lost 6 lands. This happened 2 more times and I ran out of permanents. I made a mistake at one point that cost me the match when he used griselbrand I could have returned Pfire and shot him dead, but I missed it :frown
G2:In the same as last sb vs this deck... I dropped a karakas and a mox, cast chalice on 1 which was forced. He dropped a land and a petal. I dropped a thespian's stage. He fetched a land, cast show and tell into sneak attack, I dropped Dark Depths and activated end step.
G3:I got the combo ready for turn 3 with grip in hand, while he had sneak and emrakul in hand, but not enough mana to cast it and drop emrakul. He conceeded. PHEW.

Match 7 Andrew on RG Lands 2:0
G1: I dropped exploration and had Marit ready for a turn 3 kill which he couldn't stop.
G2: In grip, tracker, karakas. He played a land mox and loamed. I dropped a bog, mox, exploration and a land. He played a port and ported during my upkeep. I dropped another land and dropped tracker. Tracker quickly got very big while beating and I wastelocked him. He conceeded.

Match 8 Stephen on Reanimator 2:0
G1: He careful studied griselbrand into grave and I crop rotated into bog when he tried to cast exhume. I had a combination of rishadan port/wasteland on black from here on and he conceeded.
G2: In spheres, chalice, tracker. I was able to again bog his reanimate attempt. From there I was able to lock down/waste his black mana and drop sphere. He did manage to get another creature into his grave, but I wasted my bog end step and then recurred it w loam. He conceeded under lockdown.

Game 9 Dave BUG Delver 2:0
G1. I went down to 11 before locking him out with tabernacle and wasteland.
G2. I went down to 8 with a tabernacle and maze in play, while pfiring 3bobs and 2 deathrite shamans before getting a conceed. Used thespians to copy grove and was able to recur pfire though deathrite. At one point he drew and missed his tabernacle trigger and was pretty amazed when I let him take it back. To be honest though I had him dead already and he knew the top card from a delver trigger anyways...

Resulted in my going x-2 and getting 200 in credit which became a Tropical Island...

[barcode]

Nice report and well done!

Do you have a moment to talk about Primeval Titan and how it may help in the Sneak Attack matchup? ;-)

[CovenantElite30]

Can we get a head count, who is all going to Worcester in a couple of weeks?

I myself will be attending.

[The_Dingo]

Can we get a head count, who is all going to Worcester in a couple of weeks?

I myself will be attending.

I'll be there for sure.

[djxstream]

my EE4 report, i take horrible notes I know.

I was on RG very similar to the GP Columbus list of Jarvis. I played my fun-of Centaur Vinecrasher in the manabond slot, and played bog main over karakas.

Ryan / Miracles

G1) lose die roll, see island/top. let out a groan. I get to loam unchallenged for a bit as he hasnt found counterbalance yet. So i make a quick token, even though he has white up, StP of course. but i loam back both pieces and start again one land at a time. Counterbalance hits the table soon after and I stop trying to loam but i have 2 copies of each combo piece in my hand/board at this point. so i make and lose the combo once more to a terminus. a rishdian port is no where to be found during all this he then asks if i want to concede, i said no as I'm sitting at 40 life and not seeing a threat on his end. he then reveals his hand of 2 snap casters and a 2nd stp..for the sake of time i concede the game to the CB lock

G2) I keep a hand that contains chalice and boseju. I win.

G3) I'm moving along quite well, boseju in play, porting his lands, no rest in peace. half the combo on the board, the other half in my hand...then blood moon, I got nothing, then blood moon #2, i got nothing again, then jace. he fates seals me til death and the 3 cards he put on the bottom were gamble/grip/grip

0-1

Steve / UW Eldrazi

G1) I win with a stupid fast token, didnt even see much of my opponents deck, but enough to see its blue white eldrazi

G2) I was all ready to win fairly quick again, then I stare at a Drowner of Hope, which pretty much ends my ability to win with marit lage as i cant kill the tokens as i sided out PFs. we goto g3

G3) I get beatdown rather quickly down to 5 live, but then bring out marit lage and swing unblocked.

1-1

Ryan / Storm. I know Ryan from previous EE4 satellite events

G1) Last time i played Ryan, he played 4C delver, so I pegged him on that after a turn 1 trop/ponder. So a few turns go by and nothing really happens as he can trips and I build 4 mana up and I drop my spice Centaur Vinecrasher for a 6/6. Next turn he does what storm does.

G2) Stupid fast token again. Exploration + crop rotation + stage in my opener.

G3) I posted about my start to this game earlier in the thread. T1 swamp, pass. I decide to port the swamp and play chalice @ 0. a few turns later of me not getting stage or crop rotation leads to a land drop, many rituals and 2 copies of tendrils.

1-2

Ryan / Burn. yes 3 Ryans out of 4 rounds.

G1) lose die roll, mountain golbin guide. shows crop rotation. fantastic. play mox, forest, exploration, stage. next turn another guide. trigger 1: depths, trigger 2: another depths. He scoops, I show him the 3rd depths already in my hand.

G2) another stupid quick token. 2 Mox diamonds, stage. Next turn knowing a crop rotation cant be countered is the greatest thing.

2-2

Joe / Grixis. A friend of mine from my LGS.

G1) Joe usually plays silly decks (charbelcher or some DRS/SFM deck i forget whats it called), but does well with them, we've split plenty of round 4s at our LGS weekly. And he jokingly wants me to concede to him cause of the bad matchup so i think its one of them...nope hes on grixis. gets an early delver, gets it flipped and i cant find the answer fast enough.

G2) He doesnt show a threat as a slowly mana deny him and draw into the combo.

G3) If island/top is my least favorite opener to see, fetch -> underground sea/DRS might be number 2. So thats what happens, he goes Sea/DRS. I stupidly run a gamble into a daze, then the following turn he plays 2 more DRS...yes 3 deathrites. his next turn he wastes my taiga and surgicals it...a little unorthodox but his train of thought was see my hand and take me off red mana. 2 other interactions of note is while his board is volcanic and sea, I try to waste the sea to stop the DRS black mana attack...he then casts bolt, dazes it via the underground sea. and he did it the right way to pay for the daze effect so i took 3 and lose a wasteland. And after seeing 2 dazes I draw a tireless tracker and think, dont play around daze, play around bolt, I can atleast get 1 card i figure. so with 3 lands in play and a fetch in hand (and forst in deck) i tap out to play tracker...it gets dazed. I lose to DRS black mana ability and attacks.

2-3

Jason / BUG Delver

G1) I have a punishing fire train going keeping his board clear and start pinging him until marit lage shows up

G2) I take a few attacks but then eventually drop Centaur Vinecrasher as 5/5 and win on his back.

3-3

James / Colorless Eldrazi. Another guy I know from satellite events, thats right in a tournament of over 300 people, I may know about 10 people in the room. In 7 rounds of magic, I pair with 3 of those 10.

G1) James knows I'm on lands, I know he's on Eldrazi. He wins the die roll, goes city / chalice for 1 and chalice for zero....my hand is a mox, gamble, and lands. I waste the city and pass. He plays Eye and passes. I play a fetch or port or something and pass, he plays a tomb and thought knot...i lose 5 turns later after drawing 3 spells i cant cast, and 2 useless lands.

G2) He shows off some fancy new tech that got from the GP Prague player, his deck is now more Eldrazi stacks than aggro. Hangarback Walker was his mvp. He plays 2 of them in his first 2 turns, then also a needle on stage. Which really hurt me, I had a super fast hand w/ loam. Then also a curcible comes into play and he replays his wasteland, and then i draw the grip...I have to take out of the crucible because a repeating wasteland while I have no exploration is game over. So i do that, then get his WL off the table, and play depths...and start thawing it out the way it was intended. I take some beat down to 5 life then hide behind a glacial chasm...which you know without stage or exploration, is a lost cause, but i think I can buy enough time to thaw my depths out....and I almost do, get it down to 1 counter left. but then a turn before I can, he plays Phyrexian Tower. which lets him sac his Hangarback Walker and get chump blockers for days. Oh and even before that hit...a smokestack hit the table. It was an interesting game to say the least.

3-4 drop.

I dropped because a) the room the hot as balls b) i'm out of prize bubble c) the venue this was held at was awesome. It had some great nik-nak stores and upstairs was a wrestling museum. Overall I enjoyed it. Changes I would make would be taking the portal out of the main board, replacing it with Ghost quarter or 4th fetch. and then taking out boils for warping wails. DRS and sorcerys were hurting more than islands.

[jrsthethird]

Joe / Grixis. A friend of mine from my LGS.

G1) Joe usually plays silly decks (charbelcher or some DRS/SFM deck i forget whats it called), but does well with them, we've split plenty of round 4s at our LGS weekly. And he jokingly wants me to concede to him cause of the bad matchup so i think its one of them...nope hes on grixis. gets an early delver, gets it flipped and i cant find the answer fast enough.

G2) He doesnt show a threat as a slowly mana deny him and draw into the combo.

G3) If island/top is my least favorite opener to see, fetch -> underground sea/DRS might be number 2. So thats what happens, he goes Sea/DRS. I stupidly run a gamble into a daze, then the following turn he plays 2 more DRS...yes 3 deathrites. his next turn he wastes my taiga and surgicals it...a little unorthodox but his train of thought was see my hand and take me off red mana. 2 other interactions of note is while his board is volcanic and sea, I try to waste the sea to stop the DRS black mana attack...he then casts bolt, dazes it via the underground sea. and he did it the right way to pay for the daze effect so i took 3 and lose a wasteland. And after seeing 2 dazes I draw a tireless tracker and think, dont play around daze, play around bolt, I can atleast get 1 card i figure. so with 3 lands in play and a fetch in hand (and forst in deck) i tap out to play tracker...it gets dazed. I lose to DRS black mana ability and attacks.

Sometimes I play magic good. Sucks we ran into each other, in the rounds anyway.

I still find it funny that I inadvertently stopped your Vinecrasher by delving away my graveyard to cast Angler the turn before.

[djxstream]

Sometimes I play magic good. Sucks we ran into each other, in the rounds anyway.

I still find it funny that I inadvertently stopped your Vinecrasher by delving away my graveyard to cast Angler the turn before.

oh yeah forgot about that game 1 interaction. I'm gearing up to cast a vinecrasher that'll be like a 8/8 or 9/9 on my next turn. On his turn he casts angler and exiles all his lands. when it came back around to me, my centaur would of been a 4/4 and gotten destroyed by the zombie fish...oh well. Still enjoyed the games.

[jhport12]

Can we get a head count, who is all going to Worcester in a couple of weeks?

I myself will be attending.

I live in Boston, but sadly don't have a car. I haven't been to a large tournament in awhile. For those who want to test their Legacy skills in advance of the Open, JP Comics is having a Legacy tournament for Duals on July 2nd: https://www.facebook.com/events/1620233071626722/

[jhport12]

Monday there was the weekly Legacy tournament at my LGS. The previous week I went undefeated, which was a nice re-entry to playing Legacy again. I run a pretty standard RG Lands, but with Boseiju in the main deck and just 3 fetches (which really makes sense to me, personally).

Round one was against NicFit, win 2-1

Game 1 - I have the nut draw. Turn 1 Manabond, combo in hand, attack on Turn 2. Literally the fastest win we can muster.
Game 2 - He had Path to Exile, Deathrite Shaman, Scavenging Ooze, and Surgical Extraction. It wasn't pretty. I knew about the instants in advance because his Sorin revealed them, but it was just too much to deal with.
Game 3 - I have a quick combo and he doesn't have Path to Exile.

Round two was against Miracles, lose 2-1

Game 1 - He gets counter lock and has a Swords for the one Marit Lage I make.
Game 2 - I Grip a Top, get the combo and he doesn’t have removal (felt a little bit lucky here).
Game 3 - Takes a long while, I Grip an Ensnaring Bridge (wrong play) instead of a Rest in Peace. I think that because I have two Depths and Stages between board and hand, that I’ll be ok. It doesn’t work at all. I DID get to Boil away 4 lands, but he drew 3 lands off the top. If he doesn't draw 3 lands, it might have ended differently. I die to many angels.

Round three was against Mana Dredge, lose 2-1

Game 1 - He mulls to 4, not much of a fight.
Game 2 - We both mull, me to five. I get a Sphere, but he has 3 lands (of course). I had a Crop Rotation, but I wasted it early on when instead I should have saved it for an instant speed Bojuka Bog.
Game 3, - I get an early Sphere which really slows him down, BUT it prevents me from casting Loam which stops me from getting the land I need to activate the Stage and Depths I have in play. I spend 5 turns drawing non-land cards in a 30+ land deck. One of which is Gamble (a glimmer of hope), which I cast for Bojuka Bog, AND he gets me to discard with a random dice roll. 20% chance he hits it, and he did. Them's the breaks.

I definitely had some bad luck here and there, but the reality is that I made some bad side-boarding decisions against Dredge along with misplays in both the Miracles and Dredge matchup. I know my deck pretty well, but this is my 2nd tournament after a year+ break from playing Legacy. My skills are rusty and I should bring side-boarding notes along with me.

[Chatto]

I live in Boston, but sadly don't have a car. I haven't been to a large tournament in awhile. For those who want to test their Legacy skills in advance of the Open, JP Comics is having a Legacy tournament for Duals on July 2nd: https://www.facebook.com/events/1620233071626722/


@ jhport12: tough luck, next time will go better!

While I live in the Netherlands, I know for a fact there is a train going there. It's still a long haul, but worth it :smile: (of course it depends on where you live in Boston)

[barcode]

I live in Boston, but sadly don't have a car. I haven't been to a large tournament in awhile. For those who want to test their Legacy skills in advance of the Open, JP Comics is having a Legacy tournament for Duals on July 2nd: https://www.facebook.com/events/1620233071626722/

For the last GP Boston-Worcester I flew into Boston and took the train to Worcester. It was pretty straightforward and may be an option for you.

Sadly I will be missing this SCG event. I'm doing a lot of travelling this year and it just isn't in the budget.

[Claymore]

G2: Same sb for me. Game drew out with a sneak attack on the board for him and a emrakul in hand, with a karakas in play for me and an exploration and loam active. I gripped his sneak attack at the end of one of his turns, and he cast blood moon on his following turn, essentially ending the match with all 4 grips and all tracker in the graveyard. Stupid play on my part, I conceeded the match.


Why was that a stupid play? Otherwise you're leaving up a kill condition and he can likely double activate Sneak to force through Emrakul. I can see saving it for the Blood Moon in hindsight...

[barcode]

I want to talk about Sylvan Scrying.

At GP Columbus my round two opponent had this spicy number in his RG lands deck and I kind of like it, in theory. It's not as flexible as Tolaria West, of course, but then again we do not need to play Blue for Sylvan Scrying. I like the synergy with Boseiju and I like that we don't need to sac a land for it like with Crop Rotation. Of course this is a Sorcery and that has real drawbacks.

I'm not sure if I'll get around to testing it (too much on my place) but I'm curious if anyone on the board has been using it.

[Kuma]

I want to talk about Sylvan Scrying.

At GP Columbus my round two opponent had this spicy number in his RG lands deck and I kind of like it, in theory. It's not as flexible as Tolaria West, of course, but then again we do not need to play Blue for Sylvan Scrying. I like the synergy with Boseiju and I like that we don't need to sac a land for it like with Crop Rotation. Of course this is a Sorcery and that has real drawbacks.

I'm not sure if I'll get around to testing it (too much on my place) but I'm curious if anyone on the board has been using it.

That's-a me!

I've been running a Sylvan Scrying over the third Maze of Ith in Dark Lands for awhile now and I've been very happy with it. At the GP, (I finished 12-3 in 35th place) it won me three games the third Maze of Ith wouldn't have, including game two of our matchup where I topdecked it the turn after you made a 20/20 and got my Karakas. It would have won me a fourth if my Infect opponent didn't topdeck one of his two Wastelands at the last possible moment to destroy the Glacial Chasm I searched for before I could leave Thespian's Stage up to copy it. To be fair, I did have to mulligan twice because of it on account of not having enough lands to pitch to Mox Diamond. I went 1-1 in those games.

Most of the time, Maze of Ith feels like a holdover from the days before we made 20/20s. Given the speed at which we kill, we often don't need to hold back opposing creatures. It's even more rare that I've needed two Mazes to win the game, and I've never needed the third. If you're in a board situation where you need that many Maze of Iths, you're probably not winning anyway. Since we need the third Maze of Ith so rarely, the Sylvan Scrying provides a ton of flexibility--it can even be a pseudo third Maze if needed.

At least over the third Maze, I think Sylvan Scrying is a superior option.

[barcode]

That's-a me!

I've been running a Sylvan Scrying over the third Maze of Ith in Dark Lands for awhile now and I've been very happy with it. At the GP, (I finished 12-3 in 35th place) it won me three games the third Maze of Ith wouldn't have, including game two of our matchup where I topdecked it the turn after you made a 20/20 and got my Karakas. It would have won me a fourth if my Infect opponent didn't topdeck one of his two Wastelands at the last possible moment to destroy the Glacial Chasm I searched for before I could leave Thespian's Stage up to copy it. To be fair, I did have to mulligan twice because of it on account of not having enough lands to pitch to Mox Diamond. I went 1-1 in those games.

Most of the time, Maze of Ith feels like a holdover from the days before we made 20/20s. Given the speed at which we kill, we often don't need to hold back opposing creatures. It's even more rare that I've needed two Mazes to win the game, and I've never needed the third. If you're in a board situation where you need that many Maze of Iths, you're probably not winning anyway. Since we need the third Maze of Ith so rarely, the Sylvan Scrying provides a ton of flexibility--it can even be a pseudo third Maze if needed.

At least over the third Maze, I think Sylvan Scrying is a superior option.

Oooh! I'm so glad you posted! I was thoroughly destroyed in our match. :( I drew pretty poorly towards the end and got punished for not having Tranquil Thicket. Have you posted a tournament report? I imagine folks here would love to read it - I know I would.

About Sylvan Scrying: I feel similarly about the third Maze, but I've found myself wanting it back (I went down to two to test the black and white splash) in a few of the hyper aggressive matchups (like Infect, Delver and Death & Taxes). I might push the Sylvan Scrying test back to the forefront now... ;)

[jhport12]

This is a disturbing sidenote. The Miracles player I played against on Monday had this card in his sideboard (but he never drew it against me):

http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=376346

It's worse than Ruination because he can use it to get basic lands for himself.

[Sengir]

Not sure what I think of sylvan scrying, more so being a sorcery. Can't say that I'd cut a Maze for it. Are people having issues finding their lands with 4 copies of most, and 4 crop rotation, and 4 gamble, along with 4 loam?


Nice report and well done!

Do you have a moment to talk about Primeval Titan and how it may help in the Sneak Attack matchup? ;-)

Thanks. I like the idea of Primeval Titan, I just can't see myself actually casting him, and gambling for him in the hopes for a show and tell seems iffy. If he were to hit the table I'm sure he would do a world of good, but getting him there...?


Why was that a stupid play? Otherwise you're leaving up a kill condition and he can likely double activate Sneak to force through Emrakul. I can see saving it for the Blood Moon in hindsight...

I was loaming away each turn, and had rishadan ports and wasteland available along with karakas, and was nearing making depths combo. Could have survived a rogue emrakul attack, blood moon however was a death knell.

[supremePINEAPPLE]

Yeah, From the Ashes has been something to be aware of for a while now. It's bad news but there also isn't that much you can do to prevent getting blown out by it. Thankfully it's not very common since it's a bit narrow.

[jhport12]

Yeah, From the Ashes has been something to be aware of for a while now. It's bad news but there also isn't that much you can do to prevent getting blown out by it. Thankfully it's not very common since it's a bit narrow.

In the current meta, it is pretty good against Eldrazi and BUG/RUG decks. And it can be better than Back to Basics because it can't be Abrupt Decayed.

[barcode]

Thanks. I like the idea of Primeval Titan, I just can't see myself actually casting him, and gambling for him in the hopes for a show and tell seems iffy. If he were to hit the table I'm sure he would do a world of good, but getting him there...?

The benefit to Titan is that just having it in your hand almost blanks Show & Tell. If you play a Pithing Needle in your deck (and you should) you can force the opponent to go on the Show & Tell plan, which you win. Gambling for the Titan is no different than Gambling for a basic Forest or Krosan Grip. In other matchups, especially the mirror, Titan ends the game when it resolves.


Yeah, From the Ashes has been something to be aware of for a while now. It's bad news but there also isn't that much you can do to prevent getting blown out by it. Thankfully it's not very common since it's a bit narrow.

You can keep porting their red sources. If they catch on, however, they'll keep a fetch open... but more often than not you'll be able to keep the red sources under control. It's not a good way to win the game, mind you, but it's a way to not immediately lose and that's step one in winning.

[hyp3r1on]

In the current meta, it is pretty good against Eldrazi and BUG/RUG decks. And it can be better than Back to Basics because it can't be Abrupt Decayed.

As a longtime miracles player, From the Ashes is pretty bad. Only time I would consider playing it is if the room was literally all Lands and Cloudpost. Eldrazi decks can't really answer back to basics anyways and is 1 mana cheaper. It's also not really playable vs delver because of its mana cost and because From the Ashes can't answer the board vs BUG - I'd much rather be casting Jace.

Anyone running that card is either a) trolling, b) targeting lands players in a local meta or c) both : )

[jhport12]

I see a great deal of logic in your response in terms of why, as a Miracles player, From the Ashes wouldn't necessarily solve enough problems for you in match-ups. Thanks for sharing.

The guy playing Miracles is a good Miracles player, though. He might just be testing it, but otherwise it isn't a matter of trolling or the meta. There are never many Lands players generyally, and I myself haven't bumped into another one in the Boston area (although I'm sure they're around).

As a Miracles player, what cards are you most afraid of seeing? I play RG Lands (no Abrupt Decays), and I can bring in 13 cards post-sideboard against Miracles (2 Chalice, 4 Sphere, 2 Tireless Tracker, 1 Boil, 4 Grip)--but it doesn't necessarily seem like it gives me enough of an edge.

[hyp3r1on]

I see a great deal of logic in your response in terms of why, as a Miracles player, From the Ashes wouldn't necessarily solve enough problems for you in match-ups. Thanks for sharing.

The guy playing Miracles is a good Miracles player, though. He might just be testing it, but otherwise it isn't a matter of trolling or the meta. There are never many Lands players generyally, and I myself haven't bumped into another one in the Boston area (although I'm sure they're around).

As a Miracles player, what cards are you most afraid of seeing? I play RG Lands (no Abrupt Decays), and I can bring in 13 cards post-sideboard against Miracles (2 Chalice, 4 Sphere, 2 Tireless Tracker, 1 Boil, 4 Grip)--but it doesn't necessarily seem like it gives me enough of an edge.

It's always unnerving to play against Miracles from the Lands perspective no matter what. It's hard to measure what hate cards the Miracles player will be bringing in for the Lands matchup. Are they bringing permanent hate like back to basics or blood moon or RIPs or do you have to play around surgicals or extreme cards like Ruination/FTA? Also a lot of hate the Lands player is bringing in is situationaly good. Sometimes a Pithing needle, a chalice or choke can be an absolute blowout and sometimes they can be basically irrelevant. Value creatures like Tireless Tracker or Bob can be very unnerving for Miracles if they don't have a stp for them immediately.

For me personally, the things that scare me the most postboard in the Lands matchup from the Miracles side are probably: 1) Boseiju 2) Boil 3) A lot of Rishadan ports and stages 4) Tracker/Bob where I don't have an immediate answer for. Whenever I see Boseiju hit play I try to close out the game as fast as possible with either cliques or an entreat.

In general though from the Lands perspective I feel a lot of the time you just have to do things aggressively and hope the Miracles player doesn't have the immediate answer. Sometimes they do and you lose which is discouraging but when they don't you feel good about your decisions because you put yourself in that position to win.