[Primer] R/G Lands

[Chatto]

(...) In general though from the Lands perspective I feel a lot of the time you just have to do things aggressively and hope the Miracles player doesn't have the immediate answer. Sometimes they do and you lose which is discouraging but when they don't you feel good about your decisions because you put yourself in that position to win.

And go for their uncracked Fetchland, at least that's what I hear from friends and read on this forum. It messes up their their gameplan. It gives you information when they fetch or don't fetch.

[Kuma]

Oooh! I'm so glad you posted! I was thoroughly destroyed in our match. :( I drew pretty poorly towards the end and got punished for not having Tranquil Thicket. Have you posted a tournament report? I imagine folks here would love to read it - I know I would.

I haven't posted a report, and it has probably been to long for me to remember most of my matches in detail. I can maybe dig up my notes, talk about what I played and add what little commentary I remember.


About Sylvan Scrying: I feel similarly about the third Maze, but I've found myself wanting it back (I went down to two to test the black and white splash) in a few of the hyper aggressive matchups (like Infect, Delver and Death & Taxes). I might push the Sylvan Scrying test back to the forefront now... ;)

Maze of Ith can be risky versus Infect due to Vines of Vastwood. Using the Scrying to get Glacial Chasm is safer. Of course, Infect runs a billion counterspells so YMMV. Maze is definitely better vs, D&T, and probably Delver too (although I'd probably rather have Scrying vs. Pyromancer to act as a second Tabernacle). Everywhere else, I'd rather have Sylvan Scrying. Infect + D&T + Delver is what, 25% of the metagame?


Not sure what I think of sylvan scrying, more so being a sorcery. Can't say that I'd cut a Maze for it. Are people having issues finding their lands with 4 copies of most, and 4 crop rotation, and 4 gamble, along with 4 loam?

The question isn't "Are people having trouble finding their lands?" it's "Would I rather draw a Maze of Ith or a Sylvan Scrying?" Most of the time I'd rather have the Sylvan Scrying. Why is sorcery speed such a terrible thing? We're funning Gamble after all. Yeah, it'd be better as an instant, but I can't run a 5th Crop Rotation.

[Sengir]

The question isn't "Are people having trouble finding their lands?" it's "Would I rather draw a Maze of Ith or a Sylvan Scrying?" Most of the time I'd rather have the Sylvan Scrying. Why is sorcery speed such a terrible thing? We're funning Gamble after all. Yeah, it'd be better as an instant, but I can't run a 5th Crop Rotation.

Well to each their own but I don't see the need for a 9th tutor, though there's definitely 2 maybe 3 floating spots in a lands deck. Don't feel that maze of one of them, getting maze into play is often essential to fending off quick aggro while we stabilize and prison them out.

Anyone here messed with the white splash at all? Horizon Canopy, Karakas, Savannah Main. Opens up containment priest, aura fracture, thalia, and ethersworn... All of which would address bad matchups?

[barcode]

Anyone here messed with the white splash at all? Horizon Canopy, Karakas, Savannah Main. Opens up containment priest, aura fracture, thalia, and ethersworn... All of which would address bad matchups?

It's not worth it.

Grafdigger's Cage is better than Containment Priest. The only winner is Aura Facture, which I didn't test. Gaddock Teeg is arguably better than Canonist and it's just not good enough against the field. Plus, Horizon Canopy is worse than Tranquil Thicket. You should be playing Karakas maindeck anyways!!

[jhport12]

Nonland permanent sideboard cards can be tricky. One thing I like about Sphere and Chalice is that not only do they slow down an opponent's primary strategy, but they also can slow down/shut off an opponent's ability to remove them. And ever since Dark Depths/Thespian's Stage became our game plan I have had a hard time justifying a 3rd color, personally.

I've had Storm decks bounce my Choke end-of-turn and then just go off. Gaddock and Ethersworn can get hit the same way. And with Miracles playing Wear//Tear a lot these days, I want to avoid losing a Mox and a Choke from one fused spell. This is part of why I really like the Boil approach against blue-based decks.

I just added Tireless Tracker to my SB, but I haven't had a chance to use it yet to learn how effective it is. At least that permanent, if it resolves, can create card advantage somewhat quickly before it might die.

[Chatto]

Thalia 2.0 looks like a big pain in the ass... Thank God it is 3cmc, so that buys us a bit of time.

[Crimhead]

Hi all!

I've been loving my RUG build recently, and I'm going be be a bit rusty on R/G. However, a friend gave me a couple Nissa, Worldwakers for my birthday, so this is the perfect excuse to take RGCL for another spin!

What do people think of the walker? Two copies in this list that took first out of seventy, so it can't be terrible.
http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=12637&d=273136&f=LE

Looks to slow for combo or Burn, and not really what we need vs most creature decks. Is this just coming in again St D&T and Miracles? In D&T they make great blockers mostly, which is pretty good I think. Vs Miracles it should put up real pressure and draw out their Swords and Termini.

Are there other good uses for Nissa? Please discuss!

[barcode]

Hi all!

I've been loving my RUG build recently, and I'm going be be a bit rusty on R/G. However, a friend gave me a couple Nissa, Worldwakers for my birthday, so this is the perfect excuse to take RGCL for another spin!

What do people think of the walker? Two copies in this list that took first out of seventy, so it can't be terrible.
http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=12637&d=273136&f=LE

Looks to slow for combo or Burn, and not really what we need vs most creature decks. Is this just coming in again St D&T and Miracles? In D&T they make great blockers mostly, which is pretty good I think. Vs Miracles it should put up real pressure and draw out their Swords and Termini.

Are there other good uses for Nissa? Please discuss!

I can't imagine how that Nissa helps. Is it just a bad Koth?

[Claymore]

If you want a walker exclusively for Miracles and/or DnT, play Chandra Flamecaller.

[Crimhead]

If you want a walker exclusively for Miracles and/or DnT, play Chandra Flamecaller.
You're not getting it.

I don't have a need that I'm looking for Nissa to fill. Rather the other way around - I have Nissas and I'm looking for the need!

Takisaka Toru had two in the board when he took first out of seventy players. I'm sure he a reason for them, but I'm not entirely sure what that reason is!

[barcode]

You're not getting it.

I don't have a need that I'm looking for Nissa to fill. Rather the other way around - I have Nissas and I'm looking for the need!

Takisaka Toru had two in the board when he took first out of seventy players. I'm sure he a reason for them, but I'm not entirely sure what that reason is!

It is possible to win in spite of having cards in your deck and sideboard.

[Crimhead]

It is possible to win in spite of having cards in your deck and sideboard.
Yeah, I do get that - just look at that 70+ card elf deck. And if I thought it was an obviously great card for us I wouldn't be posting!

Just thought I might give him the benefit of a doubt because I don't personally see every angle sometimes (and like I said, I'm out of practise with the R/G build).

[redstripe509]

Have played lands for a while, but took a break for a bit. Now that I'm coming back to it I was curious if anyone had a write up of a sideboard guide they use? One with tireless trackers etc...

I'd like a starting point to then adapt my own.

Thanks!

[snorlaxcom]

Yeah, I do get that - just look at that 70+ card elf deck. And if I thought it was an obviously great card for us I wouldn't be posting!

Just thought I might give him the benefit of a doubt because I don't personally see every angle sometimes (and like I said, I'm out of practise with the R/G build).

Looks to be the same slot as sb Primeval Titan. Petty cool considering this change addresses situations where snapcaster --> removal on a Primetime that bypassed CB is gg. The utility vs show and tell is lost, but I guess this dude wanted to address Miracles more.

[Dice_Box]

Just run Tracker or Bob. Those are the two most effective creatures for the deck that don't have "Titan" in the name.

[Ciubulu]

Had great success with tireless lately. I use it in all grindy mu but it's helpful in all the situations where you have to apply pressure. IE I started to side it in vs ant to lower their possibilities to win through ad nauseam and to increasing mine to draw more hate/the combo.


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[barcode]

Looks like Constructed Resources (Marshall Sutcliffe and Eric Froehlich) did a podcast on Lands. I'm giving it a listen now. http://www.channelfireball.com/videos/legacy-lands/

Edit: This segment on Lands runs from about 15:00 until 35:00. It is a very cursory glance at some cards in the main deck. This is entirely missable, except for people who have never seen or played Lands and want a very quick primer.

[Crimhead]

Just run Tracker or Bob. Those are the two most effective creatures for the deck that don't have "Titan" in the name.
So...

Why run Tracker or Bob over Prime Time?

[Dice_Box]

Because right now SnT is not a deck I expect to face.

[barcode]

So...

Why run Tracker or Bob over Prime Time?


Because right now SnT is not a deck I expect to face.

Tireless Tracker is much better than Bob (and makes the mana better). How is Primeval Titan worse? Titan is much harder to cast. I agree with Dice_Box, though, Sneak & Show and other Show & Tell decks are on a very steep decline. I am saddened and ashamed to admit that there might be a time where I attend a GP without Primeval Titan in my 75. :(

[CovenantElite30]

Does anyone know who "yekcat" from MTGO?

Looks like he's tearing it up in the new competitive leagues. His list is a bit different then your standard RG builds.

What do you guys think? Can't just be a good run to go 10-0 right?

4 Gamble
4 Life from the Loam
4 Crop Rotation
3 Punishing Fire
4 Mox Diamond
4 Exploration
1 Manabond
2 Molten Vortex
1 Sylvan Library
1 Bojuka Bog
3 Dark Depths
1 Forest
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Glacial Chasm
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
3 Maze of Ith
4 Rishadan Port
2 Taiga
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
4 Thespian's Stage
1 Tranquil Thicket
4 Wasteland
1 Windswept Heath
2 Wooded Foothills

SB:
1 Chalice of the Void
2 Choke
1 Karakas
4 Krosan Grip
2 Nissa, Worldwaker
2 Pithing Needle
3 Sphere of Resistance

[filln]

Looks like the exact same list as Toru Takisaka's (http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=12637&d=273136&f=LE) that we were discussing earlier for its inclusion of Nissa, Worldwaker. Only difference between the 75 is a second Wooded Foothills vs. a Misty Rainforest. Perhaps it's him?

[Sengir]

Tracker is a beat stick that protects your loams by letting you dredge off clue tokens if needs be, and he can get pretty big pretty fast. For land's he's better than bob.

Nissa does seem an odd inclusion, but less vulnerable to removal than perhaps titania, but still odd. The sylvan library looks intriguing, could be swapped for a tranquil thicket...

[CovenantElite30]

http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=104497

RG lands in top 8 of SCG Sunday classic. Interesting list running a one of World Breaker main. Seems slow but worth the test I guess. Sideboard seems a bit weird, 4 Leyline other void. Not sure what he was hedging against storm?

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[lichking61601]

world breaker maybe a good tech but very slow


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[Chatto]

http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=104497

RG lands in top 8 of SCG Sunday classic. Interesting list running a one of World Breaker main. Seems slow but worth the test I guess. Sideboard seems a bit weird, 4 Leyline other void. Not sure what he was hedging against storm?

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I would guess all BGx decks or in general all graveyard-depending decks, so yeah Storm (as a semi-GY depending deck) to name one. If you checked the whole T16, you would have drawn the same conclusion: I see two Reanimator, Dredge, some Goyf-decks etc. LotV seems a bit of a meta-call, but a good one.

I like the simplicity of the SB: very straightforward. Worldbreaker seems like a (slow, but) decent recurring beatstick. The Waste in the main looks like an obvious inclusion. Not sure I like his decision to drop a Exploration, instead of the 2nd Manabond. Would like to read a report, so Russell, if you are Reading this: please write a report. I especially like to read your thoughts on your maindeck-choices.

[The_Dingo]

The Waste in the main looks like an obvious inclusion. Not sure I like his decision to drop a Exploration, instead of the 2nd Manabond. Would like to read a report, so Russell, if you are Reading this: please write a report. I especially like to read your thoughts on your maindeck-choices.

How does waste seem like a good card in this deck? We already play at least 16 colorless lands that do something besides produce mana. While I'm not down with wastes I'm all about the 62 card maindeck, and world breaker is a kickass card which definitely merits further testing.

[Chatto]

How does waste seem like a good card in this deck? We already play at least 16 colorless lands that do something besides produce mana. While I'm not down with wastes I'm all about the 62 card maindeck, and world breaker is a kickass card which definitely merits further testing.

Because of the beatstick, which can only be cast with colorless mana. I never said it's good, but if you want to cast, EDIT: return to hand, World Breaker under a Blood Moon (our biggest nemesis) you will need a Waste. That's why it is an obvious inclusion in the 75, but perhaps not the 60.

EDIT: then again, World Breaker seems very very slow.

[filln]

Extra background from the Lands player on a Reddit thread:


Nah you don't have to start with 4 exploration, really you just want to make sure that you have 8-9 acceleration effects, which are usually 4 mox diamond 4 exploration 1 manabond. I recently swapped over to two manabond because I found that when I drop a manabond that game is usually over really quickly.

As far as world breaker goes, we have too many miracles and main deck blood moon decks in my local meta, I needed an uncounterable solution that I could loam through, going to 62 with worldbreaker and wastes seemed like the plan.

[supremePINEAPPLE]

I'd personally rather play riftstone portal + worm harvest if that's what they were going for but good on the pilot for making it work well enough to top 8 a classic! It's always good to see new tech and get the wheels turning in everyone's mind.

[Dice_Box]

I think the decks core is strong enough that if your a good player you will make it work. That gives space for weird shit to go in, because the deck will let you do things like this.

I dislike 2 Bond over 4 Exploration though. When you side in non lands your somewhat forced to side out the Bonds. That to me makes the Exploration more useful if not as strong game one.

[lichking61601]

anyone tried gigapede as alternate wincon?


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[snorlaxcom]

anyone tried gigapede as alternate wincon?


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yea, but worm harvest is just more versatile.

[Croprot]

I may be crazy but how do people feel about nissa vast wood seer?

[barcode]

I may be crazy but how do people feel about nissa vast wood seer?

This card is pretty busted in Standard. However it's a different environment:

Nissa can get Karakased
It doesnt always get your basic Forest (you may have fetched it)


But...

If you flip it you basically have built your own Exploration.

The token it makes from -2 is legendary and that's not real solid.

[lichking61601]

yea, but worm harvest is just more versatile.

But worm harvest i think would not be good if theres a tabernacle in play.


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[Chatto]

But worm harvest i think would not be good if theres a tabernacle in play.


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So don't put your Tabernacle in play, or play Worm Harvest when your Tabernacle is out. Besides, Worm Harvest is mostly good in those mu's when Tabernacle isn't shining.

[lichking61601]

So don't put your Tabernacle in play, or play Worm Harvest when your Tabernacle is out. Besides, Worm Harvest is mostly good in those mu's when Tabernacle isn't shining.

so what if your mu is miracles and theres a lot of angels via entreat. you dont play tabernacle at all? what im saying is that we should choose cards that are synergistic with the deck


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[Chatto]

so what if your mu is miracles and theres a lot of angels via entreat. you dont play tabernacle at all? what im saying is that we should choose cards that are synergistic with the deck


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Tabernacle won't work as good as you might think against Miracles (unless we're talking about Mental Mentor Miracles, but then again Tabernacle will keep them in check -not really deal with the prowess which can kill you with ease)

Why is Worm Harvest not in sync with RGCL? Plenty of people have had succes with it, so I'm curious what you mean with 'choose cards that are synergistic'. Just because it doesn't really works well with Tabernacle doesn't mean it isn't a solid choice for RGCL.

[snorlaxcom]

so what if your mu is miracles and theres a lot of angels via entreat. you dont play tabernacle at all? what im saying is that we should choose cards that are synergistic with the deck


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Harvest is more versatile g1 to fight CB and more "synergistic" than pede. Terminus on pede sucks, so try it out if you want but Harvest sticks around for all of g1 and has much less instances to be Clique'd, too. Tab vs angels is a last ditch effort if you don't have Marit out already or pfire loop behind a chasm lock.

[barfly]

so what if your mu is miracles and theres a lot of angels via entreat. you dont play tabernacle at all? what im saying is that we should choose cards that are synergistic with the deck


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Worm Harvest has better synergy than a 6/1 without trample. It's notable that it won't help when staring down 4 angels either, and tabernacle probably won't, either.

Tabernacle is better against mentor but so is worm Harvest.

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[jhport12]

Miracles has been putting more effort into punishing nonbasic lands with Back to Basics and Blood Moon. I guess it's possible to have Riftstone Portal in the graveyard, but that only helps against Blood Moon, so I don't feel particularly enthused about Worm Harvest.

I've recently put Tireless Tracker in my sideboard, but I have not gotten to put it into play yet (I sure do dredge it a lot, though). Gigapede and Nissa both seem awful, to be honest. Nissa is a highly conditional "Exploration". Tracker can more easily and more quickly create card advantage, while making itself larger.

Over the past few weeks of attending small (8-16 person) tournaments, I'm finding that Miracles is just one of many decks out there. It may be a tougher matchup, but I don't face it nearly as much as I thought I would given how much people talk about it.

[Djehuti]

so what if your mu is miracles and theres a lot of angels via entreat. you dont play tabernacle at all? what im saying is that we should choose cards that are synergistic with the deck


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If miracles is casting entreat, you've most likely already lost. Tabernacle will make no difference there. Anecdotally, ive never had an issue. When both worm harvest and tabernacle are live, i wasteland/rotate my tabernacle. It might not be graceful but it works.

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[The_Dingo]

Miracles has been putting more effort into punishing nonbasic lands with Back to Basics and Blood Moon. I guess it's possible to have Riftstone Portal in the graveyard, but that only helps against Blood Moon, so I don't feel particularly enthused about Worm Harvest.

I've recently put Tireless Tracker in my sideboard, but I have not gotten to put it into play yet (I sure do dredge it a lot, though). Gigapede and Nissa both seem awful, to be honest. Nissa is a highly conditional "Exploration". Tracker can more easily and more quickly create card advantage, while making itself larger.

Over the past few weeks of attending small (8-16 person) tournaments, I'm finding that Miracles is just one of many decks out there. It may be a tougher matchup, but I don't face it nearly as much as I thought I would given how much people talk about it.

I think people talk about the miracles MU so much because

1) it's the best deck in the format (according to many).
2) it's miserable to lose to.
3) People are always innovating miracles and there's always new SB or MD tech to consider or be aware of.
4) If you end up doing well at a large event, then it's very likely that miracles will be popular at the top tables and you'll have to play it when the stakes are high.

So I think it makes sense to want to improve this MU as much as possible

Does anyone have any advice for approaching the UR delver MU, including what the best post board plan is? I always think it should be an easy MU and I play it just as I would any other delver MU, but between SB blood moons and maindeck PoPs it ends up being a much harder MU than I think it should be. It feels like they had the best parts of the delver plan and the burn plan smashed together. Getting a wastelock is hard due to a decent number of basics (this is the kind of MU where ghost quarter would be great), and they have the selection to find PoP and SB cards.

[Chatto]

Does anyone have any advice for approaching the UR delver MU, including what the best post board plan is? I always think it should be an easy MU and I play it just as I would any other delver MU, but between SB blood moons and maindeck PoPs it ends up being a much harder MU than I think it should be. It feels like they had the best parts of the delver plan and the burn plan smashed together. Getting a wastelock is hard due to a decent number of basics (this is the kind of MU where ghost quarter would be great), and they have the selection to find PoP and SB cards.

You need your combo online asap. Also very good is CR into Chasm, because most UR Delver-pilots don't play Wasteland (I know I'm not). Good SB-cards are imo TT (almost impossible to burn to death when you have him online), perhaps a K-grip or two-three (I've seen lists with our nemisis Blood Moon), and Chalice (does not stop prowess, mind you). Still, your best chance is Chasm, and just keep dropping your combo.

[The_Dingo]

You need your combo online asap. Also very good is CR into Chasm, because most UR Delver-pilots don't play Wasteland (I know I'm not). Good SB-cards are imo TT (almost impossible to burn to death when you have him online), perhaps a K-grip or two-three (I've seen lists with our nemisis Blood Moon), and Chalice (does not stop prowess, mind you). Still, your best chance is Chasm, and just keep dropping your combo.

Sound advice. So it seems like I should keep my boarding to a minimum, and just try and execute the normal game plan that we would use against burn?

[Claymore]

Good SB-cards are imo TT (almost impossible to burn to death when you have him online)

What is TT? Tireless Tracker?

[Dice_Box]

What is TT? Tireless Tracker?

Yes.

[Chatto]

Sound advice. So it seems like I should keep my boarding to a minimum, and just try and execute the normal game plan that we would use against burn?

Yup, it's basically Burn with U for filtering, counters, and one of, if not the best one-drop in Legacy: Delver of Secrets.

[CovenantElite30]

So I'm trying 1 world breaker main tomorrow at my local fnm. I'm thinking it will help sure up my D&T and Miracles matchup. I originally was playing worm harvest main but didn't help me in the D&T matchup up. How's anyone tested with this card? I know someone top 8ed with it main last week at the classic so I'm sure it has some legs.

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[barcode]

So I'm trying 1 world breaker main tomorrow at my local fnm. I'm thinking it will help sure up my D&T and Miracles matchup. I originally was playing worm harvest main but didn't help me in the D&T matchup up. How's anyone tested with this card? I know someone top 8ed with it main last week at the classic so I'm sure it has some legs.

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Worm Harvest is excellent against Death & Taxes to gum up the ground. So is every other card in our deck. I'm not sure where you need help because Death & Taxes is a very positive matchup.

[jhport12]

Had a very short tourney experience this weekend.

Round 1 - Mono-Red Sneak Attack
Game 1 - He has a Turn 2 Blood Moon (4 main deck) and I have no answer in the main deck.
Game 2 - He has a Blood Moon, but I have a Grip and Depths in hand and Stage and Forest in play. So I have two turns in which I can Grip the Moon and make a 20/20. The next turn (in which I would Grip his Moon), he plays Blood Moon #2. I have two Grips in the graveyard from dredging, so I'm pretty much dead.

Very horrid matchup to face Round 1 (or any Round).

Round 2 - Eldrazi with White hatebears and Stoneforge?!
Game 1 - He has the Eldrazi that flickers creatures, but I wasteland a land and he doesn't have another, giving me the freedom to make a 20/20.
Game 2 - He plays Rest in Peace. I go for an early 20/20 in my turn after I port his Wasteland. He promptly plays Karakas during his main phase. I really should have been more patient.
Game 3 - He plays Batterskull, I Grip it. He plays creatures, I play Mazes. He finds Pithing Needle on Maze, I draw nothing in the 3 turns I have to live.

0-2 drop. I definitely screwed up a lot in my Eldrazi/Stoneforge matchup. Not a deck I'd really seen before. And mono-red Sneak Attack with 4 Blood Moon is a crazy bad matchup. I asked him how he deals with having no library manipulation and searching: he just said "I play a lot of redundant copies of cards." I can't imagine that it's better than U/R Sneak & Show, but who knows.

[non-inflammable]

Round 2 - Eldrazi with White hatebears and Stoneforge?!
Game 1 - He has the Eldrazi that flickers creatures, but I wasteland a land and he doesn't have another, giving me the freedom to make a 20/20.
Game 2 - He plays Rest in Peace. I go for an early 20/20 in my turn after I port his Wasteland. He promptly plays Karakas during his main phase. I really should have been more patient.
Game 3 - He plays Batterskull, I Grip it. He plays creatures, I play Mazes. He finds Pithing Needle on Maze, I draw nothing in the 3 turns I have to live.



My local shop has a D&T player that runs eldrazi displacer...
Funny thing, I supplied him with the 3x displacers since he had none.

[jhport12]

It was a real integration of the two decks in some form or fashion. He had Reality Smashers, too. I assume he played Though-Knot Seers, but I never saw one. He did play Phyrexian Revokers main deck.

It was like "Eldrazi & Taxes". Oh... AND he had Mox Diamonds!!! This helped him power out a Turn 1 Rest in Peace, I believe. I had played Mox Diamond, land, Loam back the land I had discarded, Go. He went Mox Diamond, land, Rest in Peace.

Unless somebody else knows the meta better, it must have been a home brew. Mono-red Sneak Attack sounds like a Homebrew, too, but maybe it isn't.

[jhport12]

As a sidenote, what are most people's strategies against Sneak & Show (and affiliated) decks?

I just pray to draw Spheres, Ports and Wastes. I'm debating putting Pithing Needles in my deck because they are very versatile (hits Deathrite, Top, Karakas, Relic of Progenitus, etc.).

And just because I can't stop typing, have people seen the new Thalia, Cathar Heretic? It seems custom built to hurt Dredge AND Sneak & Show in Legacy (while also hurting us somewhat, too).

[somethingdotdotdot]

It was a real integration of the two decks in some form or fashion. He had Reality Smashers, too. I assume he played Though-Knot Seers, but I never saw one. He did play Phyrexian Revokers main deck.

It was like "Eldrazi & Taxes". Oh... AND he had Mox Diamonds!!! This helped him power out a Turn 1 Rest in Peace, I believe. I had played Mox Diamond, land, Loam back the land I had discarded, Go. He went Mox Diamond, land, Rest in Peace.

Unless somebody else knows the meta better, it must have been a home brew. Mono-red Sneak Attack sounds like a Homebrew, too, but maybe it isn't.

Check out the Eldrazi Stompy thread in the DTB section here. The white/white-green/white-black versions are all discussed to some extent in there.

[snorlaxcom]

Unless somebody else knows the meta better, it must have been a home brew. Mono-red Sneak Attack sounds like a Homebrew, too, but maybe it isn't.

It's called Big Red (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?24711-Big-Red-(Mono-R-Sneak-Attack)) and has been out for a while. An option for players that don't have blue part of s&t and lack volcs or like prison+combo decks. Pretty rough since they start t1 with chalice or bloodmoon most games.

[Cambriel]

Top 4'd a local legacy monthly event with Lands yesterday. I didn't anticipate doing well, but I had some matches go my way early that I was able to ride into the playoffs.

R1: 2-0 Shardless BUG - Opponent was borrowing the deck and somewhat inexperienced. He had no basic island in the deck, so it wasn't hard to keep him locked out of blue. Game 2, I sided in Spheres and the game ground to a halt. Eventually found Dark Depths and won with about 6 minutes left on the clock.

R2: 2-0 Elves - Game 1 early Tabernacle crushed him and he scooped. Game 2, P Fire kept insects under control and prevented a board presence from accumulating. Crop Rotation found Tabernacle, Wasteland kept him off black, and Sphere locked out his spells. He spent several turns recasting the same Elvish Mystic just trying to keep his head above water but it wasn't enough.

R3: 2-0 Burn - Game 1 I took two hits off a Guide, scooping up two lands that helped push out early Marit Lage from Exploration. Game 2, he had a few Bolts but no pressure, then found Eidolon while I was digging like a madman off Loam + Horizon Canopy. Price of Progress on his turn forced me to combo, fetch for nothing, and end up at 3 life to avoid Barbarian Ring killing me. It was close.

R4/5: Double draw.

QF: 2-1 Shardless BUG - Different (better) player. Game 1 ran long but went to me when he ran out of pressure. Game 2 he killed my Exploration and countered a Sphere, and his two Goyfs 6/7 Goyfs made quick work of me. Game 3 went very long, and we both had several dead draws. He had a turn 0 Leyline, which I managed to K Grip. A second Leyline came later, but by then I had two P Fires in the yard to snag back for Deathrites. We played fair Magic for a while as he tried to beat 3 Mazes without Lillianas still in the deck. Eventually I found Dark Depths and won.

SF: 1-2 Sneak and Show - Game 1 I just flat out stole. The player SnT'd in Griselbrand while I had an active Maze rather than the Emrakul in his hand. He eventually forgot to pay for Tabernacle, giving me an opening. Game 2 he combo'd with Omniscience and I couldn't find a Grip, so in spite of taking 3 turns to go off he won. Game 3 I had a turn 1 Sphere, built a board up, kept him off red mana, and kept Porting his Islands. It was going my way, but he drew a City, paid 4 for SnT, and in came Emrakul. I had 10 live draws in my deck I had yet to see any of: 4 Gamble, 4 Crop Rotation, 1 Karakas, 1 Sylvan Scrying. Didn't find a damn one.

Sneak Attack is a bad matchup in general, but it's especially irritating to feel like a game is well in hand but have it all come crashing down. Still had a nice payout, and spent a little more to go home with a consolation Chaos Orb. Not a bad Saturday, imo.

[CovenantElite30]

Top 4'd a local legacy monthly event with Lands yesterday. I didn't anticipate doing well, but I had some matches go my way early that I was able to ride into the playoffs.

R1: 2-0 Shardless BUG - Opponent was borrowing the deck and somewhat inexperienced. He had no basic island in the deck, so it wasn't hard to keep him locked out of blue. Game 2, I sided in Spheres and the game ground to a halt. Eventually found Dark Depths and won with about 6 minutes left on the clock.

R2: 2-0 Elves - Game 1 early Tabernacle crushed him and he scooped. Game 2, P Fire kept insects under control and prevented a board presence from accumulating. Crop Rotation found Tabernacle, Wasteland kept him off black, and Sphere locked out his spells. He spent several turns recasting the same Elvish Mystic just trying to keep his head above water but it wasn't enough.

R3: 2-0 Burn - Game 1 I took two hits off a Guide, scooping up two lands that helped push out early Marit Lage from Exploration. Game 2, he had a few Bolts but no pressure, then found Eidolon while I was digging like a madman off Loam + Horizon Canopy. Price of Progress on his turn forced me to combo, fetch for nothing, and end up at 3 life to avoid Barbarian Ring killing me. It was close.

R4/5: Double draw.

QF: 2-1 Shardless BUG - Different (better) player. Game 1 ran long but went to me when he ran out of pressure. Game 2 he killed my Exploration and countered a Sphere, and his two Goyfs 6/7 Goyfs made quick work of me. Game 3 went very long, and we both had several dead draws. He had a turn 0 Leyline, which I managed to K Grip. A second Leyline came later, but by then I had two P Fires in the yard to snag back for Deathrites. We played fair Magic for a while as he tried to beat 3 Mazes without Lillianas still in the deck. Eventually I found Dark Depths and won.

SF: 1-2 Sneak and Show - Game 1 I just flat out stole. The player SnT'd in Griselbrand while I had an active Maze rather than the Emrakul in his hand. He eventually forgot to pay for Tabernacle, giving me an opening. Game 2 he combo'd with Omniscience and I couldn't find a Grip, so in spite of taking 3 turns to go off he won. Game 3 I had a turn 1 Sphere, built a board up, kept him off red mana, and kept Porting his Islands. It was going my way, but he drew a City, paid 4 for SnT, and in came Emrakul. I had 10 live draws in my deck I had yet to see any of: 4 Gamble, 4 Crop Rotation, 1 Karakas, 1 Sylvan Scrying. Didn't find a damn one.

Sneak Attack is a bad matchup in general, but it's especially irritating to feel like a game is well in hand but have it all come crashing down. Still had a nice payout, and spent a little more to go home with a consolation Chaos Orb. Not a bad Saturday, imo.
Great job dude, can you post a decklist?

Any tireless tracker in the board? I was considering going up to 3 trackers, the card is just so good.

For sneak and Show I have Primeval in my side and has won me a lot of matches verses that deck.

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[CovenantElite30]

I find myself losing a lot to shardless. Not sure if I just sideboarding incorrect.

I don't bring in Chalice or Spheres and I'm thinking maybe I should be?

I sideboard out all of my loams as they have a ton of graveyard hate.

I generally just sideboard in my tireless trackers, boils, and primeval.

I just find there creatures to be a pain to deal with and they run wasteland so trying to make a token is nearly impossible before they kill you.

Any sideboard advice would be helpful.

Thank you.

[UnsungHero]

I find myself losing a lot to shardless. Not sure if I just sideboarding incorrect.

I don't bring in Chalice or Spheres and I'm thinking maybe I should be?

I sideboard out all of my loams as they have a ton of graveyard hate.

I generally just sideboard in my tireless trackers, boils, and primeval.

I just find there creatures to be a pain to deal with and they run wasteland so trying to make a token is nearly impossible before they kill you.

Any sideboard advice would be helpful.

Thank you.

You certainly dont board out loams in this match. Getting Exploration online with Loam and Wasteland is very good. Bojuka Bog is very good in this match, as it often weakens deathrite, and goyf to some extent. The deck also doesn't run alot of counters, so crop rotation is good. Punishing fire is very good in this match. You just have to determine if you have a hand that you can go the denial route or if you have a hand where you can jam a quick combo.

As far as boarding goes, I don't board in much here, Maybe Tracker, and some number of K Grips to kill a Needle or Strix.

[CovenantElite30]

Anyone on here go to the MTGFirst legacy tournament today https://www.facebook.com/events/105513479864653/?ti=cl ? If so how did you guys do. From what I saw on camera lands got destroyed. I heard Jarvis Yu was at the event. I guess there was 5 lands decks out of 106 players.

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[Drake0525]

Hi all! I recently started assembling the pieces for this deck. I've been able to trade for the vast majority of the pieces. I do not have Tabernacle yet, but if that's the only card I have to pay out of pocket for, it'll put the total of what I spend building RG Lands significantly lower than what I spent to build Canadian Threshold.

In the meantime, I've been doing a lot of homework on the archetype, I've been watching SCG vids of lands against various decks, I've read the primer, and analyze a bunch of deck-lists. Today I came up with a 75 which I think might be viable, but I would love to get feedback on it before taking it to the LGS.

Here's the list:

4x Mox Diamond
4x Exploration
4x Crop Rotation
4x Gamble
4x Life From the Loam
2x Manabond
3x Punishing Fire

1x Bojuka Bog
1x Boseiju Who Shelters All
3x Dark Depths
1x Forest
1x Ghost Quarter
1x Glacial Chasm
4x Grove of the Burnwillows
1x Karakas
3x Maze of Ith
4x Rishadan Port
2x Taiga
1x Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
4x Thespian's Stage
1x Tranquil Thicket
4x Wasteland
2x Windswept Heath
1x Wooded Foothills

Sideboard:

2x Sphere of Resistance
1x Trinisphere
3x Tireless Tracker
2x Boil
2x Krosan Grip
2x Ray of Revelation
1x Buried Ruin
1x Dark Depths

I feel like Riftstone Portal wants to be in the main somewhere as a hedge against Bloodmoon - which sees quite a bit of play in my local meta - not sure what I could cut to include that though. Any feedback or ideas you guys have would be great!

[lichking61601]

has anybody tried putting smokestack to control the board? any inputs on my idea?


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[Chatto]

4x Mox Diamond
4x Exploration
4x Crop Rotation
4x Gamble
4x Life From the Loam
2x Manabond
3x Punishing Fire

1x Bojuka Bog
1x Boseiju Who Shelters All
3x Dark Depths
1x Forest
1x Ghost Quarter
1x Glacial Chasm
4x Grove of the Burnwillows
1x Karakas
3x Maze of Ith
4x Rishadan Port
2x Taiga
1x Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
4x Thespian's Stage
1x Tranquil Thicket
4x Wasteland
2x Windswept Heath
1x Wooded Foothills

Sideboard:

2x Sphere of Resistance
1x Trinisphere
3x Tireless Tracker
2x Boil
2x Krosan Grip
2x Ray of Revelation
1x Buried Ruin
1x Dark Depths

I feel like Riftstone Portal wants to be in the main somewhere as a hedge against Bloodmoon - which sees quite a bit of play in my local meta - not sure what I could cut to include that though. Any feedback or ideas you guys have would be great!

Hi Drake, if you want a Portal in your 60, drop a Manabond.


has anybody tried putting smokestack to control the board? any inputs on my idea?


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Against what deck would you board Smokestack? I personally haven't tried it, and don't see against what decks I would use it. Seems unneccesary boardcontrol at the moment.

[Sibelius]

Went to BoM Strasbourg at the weekend.

W - 2-1 Goblins (Game loss for not registering my Punishing Fires...)
W - 2-0 Omni Tell (He mulled G1 and I made a quick Witch, G2 I had spheres and he had some misplays)
W - 2-1 Omni Tell (Won G1 with some ports and waste, G2 he had the turn 1 kill, G3 I had the turn 3 kill. We both laughed.)
W - 2-1 UR Delver (Ghost quarter got his only mountain and I dealt with his creatures, G2 I go for the Lage and die to Price for exact, G3 He stumbles and doesn't find the third land for Blood Moon and I win)
W - 2-1 Dredge (G3 comes down to a Gamble for Bog, 1/3 to hit but he doesnt, it puts the game out of his reach)
At this point I am 5-0. Win the next and I top8 BoM again with 2 IDs as I am Table 1 for Round 6.
L - 0-2 Eldrazi Anton Karlinski (Eventual winner. Games on Twitch. Nothing of note happens. I just don't do anything and he has Chalice on 1 and 2. G2 is a bit closer but a surgical and some quick Eldrazi get him there.)
L - 1-2 GUb Opposition my friend Pierre Canali (PT champion Pierre also got Top8. Games on Twitch. Should have got a draw but I forgot to pay for Chasm in turns. Felt rather ill all day, just a shame to make a mistake at this point)
L - 1-2 UB Tokens. (Won g1 after a couple of loams and he conceded. Didn't know what he was on but boarded for SFM deck after seeing a plains and Marshflats. Lost G2 to a t1 chalice on 1 and a RIP. G3 was back and fourth until he played Humility. I had just used my Kgrip on a RIP. Probably shouldn't have as now I have a 1/1 Marit Lage... urgh. Turns out he had MD Humility. Nice previous Dredge opponent came over and said the Grip on RIP was the correct play but I am not sure. I don't think I needed to get it off the board as I did't have much going. I should have waited till I needed to do it and might have seen the Humility or one of the Ensnaring Bridges I found he had brought in. Pretty tired at this point so I didn't think carefully enough/didn't know about what kind of board his Tokens deck would have. This is the guy who had built Pierre's GUb Opposition deck and lent it him, so he was a bit of a brewer.)

5-3 for 36th place.

Pretty heart breaking....

Winning round 6 would have got me Top8. Winning either of the other games would have put me in Top16 for the points I need to reach the Invitational Finals. A draw would have got me Top32 for some points and prizes to get a lot closer.
36th got me bugger all.

Meta seemed odd from the floor but I will investigate the breakdown more from the BoM site when I have some time.
Tireless Tracker seemed like the real deal. Someone needs to make a deck based around that card.

I can add more detail if people want.

Sib

:frown:

[snorlaxcom]

I feel like Riftstone Portal wants to be in the main somewhere as a hedge against Bloodmoon - which sees quite a bit of play in my local meta - not sure what I could cut to include that though. Any feedback or ideas you guys have would be great!

What is this supposed to accomplish? You can't do anything if moon lands g1.

[Drake0525]

What is this supposed to accomplish? You can't do anything if moon lands g1.Hmm, your right of course. There is no way to remove it without sideboard cards. Maybe I'll just leave manabond where it is.

[Sibelius]

Hmm, your right of course. There is no way to remove it without sideboard cards. Maybe I'll just leave manabond where it is.

If you need to hedge main deck play Riftstone AND Worm Harvest. Then you have a small out to Moon decks and slightly improved miracles MU.

Sib

[CovenantElite30]

If you need to hedge main deck play Riftstone AND Worm Harvest. Then you have a small out to Moon decks and slightly improved miracles MU.

Sib

I've been playing main a one of World Breaker, has helped me out a great deal against Miracles. It's a little slow but it's a uncounterable way of removing a annoying counter balance.

I originally had Worm Harvest main and it didn't really do much for me. In the majority of the matchups I would side it out a bunch.

With World Breaker I find I've been leaving it in a lot after sideboard. It's a house against a lot of the grindy matchups.

[Drake0525]

I've been playing main a one of World Breaker, has helped me out a great deal against Miracles. It's a little slow but it's a uncounterable way of removing a annoying counter balance.

I originally had Worm Harvest main and it didn't really do much for me. In the majority of the matchups I would side it out a bunch.

With World Breaker I find I've been leaving it in a lot after sideboard. It's a house against a lot of the grindy matchups.World breaker seems promising. It can be countered, but it's effect is on cast - nothing Miracles can do about that. I'll have to take a look at my list and figure out what cuts to make. Thanks guys!

[Claymore]

I've been finding World Breaker incredibly slow to hard cast, but it can get there. Essentially only seems viable against Miracles. Should it be sideboard?

Smokestacks was brought up previously as tech against Miracles, as they can't really answer it and the Stax will eventually eat their board. I ran it in Jund Depths and found it was hit or miss, as you really needed Exploration to get anywhere with the Stax. It's probably very bad against Mentor Miracles right now too if they get their Mentor online.

[CovenantElite30]

I've been finding World Breaker incredibly slow to hard cast, but it can get there. Essentially only seems viable against Miracles. Should it be sideboard?

Smokestacks was brought up previously as tech against Miracles, as they can't really answer it and the Stax will eventually eat their board. I ran it in Jund Depths and found it was hit or miss, as you really needed Exploration to get anywhere with the Stax. It's probably very bad against Mentor Miracles right now too if they get their Mentor online.

Have you tested with worm harvest at all? If you have would you say World Breaker is better in the slot over work harvest?

Both cards have there pros and cons and both cards are very slow. Personally game 1 can get very very long against miracles and knowing I have an out is a great feeling.

[Claymore]

Currently running both mainboard. I like the Worms better, they can come down sooner, are hard to Countertop, and force Terminus fairly quickly. I think they're different applications for sure, but Worms seem to be stronger overall.

I haven't gotten to hardcast the World Breaker too often, usually it gets cast once and then is immediately STP'd.

[Drake0525]

Currently running both mainboard. I like the Worms better, they can come down sooner, are hard to Countertop, and force Terminus fairly quickly. I think they're different applications for sure, but Worms seem to be stronger overall.

I haven't gotten to hardcast the World Breaker too often, usually it gets cast once and then is immediately STP'd.How is it that you're able to resolve that through FOW? Do you just retrace it over and over until it resolves?

Edit: The more important question might be, how do you fit both the Worm Harvest and Worldbreaker packages into the main?

[Lord_Mcdonalds]

Hmm, your right of course. There is no way to remove it without sideboard cards. Maybe I'll just leave manabond where it is.

worth noting, Riftstone lets you win the game if you have 2 crop rotations, 2 green sources and a combo piece.

Riftstone is better if you find yourself grinding games out more often then not as your a lot more flexible with your mana/lands.

[Drake0525]

worth noting, Riftstone lets you win the game if you have 2 crop rotations, 2 green sources and a combo piece.

Riftstone is better if you find yourself grinding games out more often then not as your a lot more flexible with your mana/lands.Wow, I didn't even see that line! Thanks for the heads up on that. That could be really amusing!

[Claymore]

How is it that you're able to resolve that through FOW? Do you just retrace it over and over until it resolves?

Edit: The more important question might be, how do you fit both the Worm Harvest and Worldbreaker packages into the main?

They only have 4 FoW in the deck, and that's the only card that can stop Worms (other than RiP). That's also assuming they haven't spent a Force yet. It's not a given to resolve through a FoW in hand or a CounterTop, but it has a much better shot than all of the 1 and 2 cc spells.

I'm running a different deck. I'm gallivanting in here because the Jund Depths thread is dead and we use similar concepts.

[snorlaxcom]

worth noting, Riftstone lets you win the game if you have 2 crop rotations, 2 green sources and a combo piece.

Riftstone is better if you find yourself grinding games out more often then not as your a lot more flexible with your mana/lands.

Riftstone is the green source, so 2 mana (at least 2 lands) + 2 combo pieces (lands/crops) gets Marit out.

[Lord_Mcdonalds]

I should've been more specific, Riftstone being in your deck let's you win from 2 green sources and a combo piece if you have 2 crop rotations.

It's negligible really as it infrequently occurs but it is a cool upside.

[The_Dingo]

I should've been more specific, Riftstone being in your deck let's you win from 2 green sources and a combo piece if you have 2 crop rotations.

It's negligible really as it infrequently occurs but it is a cool upside.

These sort of lines definitely happen, and it's helpful to have these sort of lines against burn and DnT. I probably wouldn't try this plan against a deck with FoW unless I'm pretty desperate.

[jhport12]

If you need to hedge main deck play Riftstone AND Worm Harvest. Then you have a small out to Moon decks and slightly improved miracles MU.

Sib

Blood Moon decks that are grindy, I can see that working. Fast Blood Moon decks, on the other hand...

Specifically, I'm thinking about Sneak Attack decks (mono-red or multicolor) that play Blood Moon main. The truth may be that we have to accept a horrible matchup.

I can see why Miracles is so popular: it generally has few truly terrible match-ups. Meanwhile, Storm and Sneak Attack often just steamroll us.

[Alexeezay]

Running 1 Molten Vortex over the 4th Punishing Fire MD also isn't bad against Moon decks. I once used that and almost won G1 vs Goblin Stompy with 2 Moons out. But he played Chalice on 2 :(
I think having 1 Vortex is fine anyway.

[The_Dingo]

Running 1 Molten Vortex over the 4th Punishing Fire MD also isn't bad against Moon decks. I once used that and almost won G1 vs Goblin Stompy with 2 Moons out. But he played Chalice on 2 :(
I think having 1 Vortex is fine anyway.

I had this exact situation occur last night. I went on to win the match by drawing multiple K grips in both postboard games.

[CovenantElite30]

Question: Is Stunning Regrowth a card we could play in lands?

3G Sorcery

Return all land cards from your graveyard to the battlefield tapped.
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[Dice_Box]

First question you should always ask, what would this take the place of? If you can't see a reason to cut something for it, it's not getting played. In this case it's not something you want in the main and it's weakness to Graveyard hate means your don't want it in the side.

[barcode]

The card is hilarious with Tireless Tracker! But so is Life from the Loam and Exploration. Nope, I don't want it except for my Gitrog Commander deck.

[jhport12]

Question: Is Stunning Regrowth a card we could play in lands?

3G Sorcery

Return all land cards from your graveyard to the battlefield tapped.
AddThis Sharing Buttons

I was definitely excited to see this card exists, but not for Lands.

I mean, they get back all the lands I Wastelanded? No thanks. And coming in tapped means that I can't make a 20/20, Maze a Tarmagoyf, recur a Punishing Fire, or do much else.

[Claymore]

This is one sided. Return all Wastelands and Ghost Quarters.

This does give a 4 cost land recursion spell to navigate around Counterbalance.

[Sparkii]

This is one sided. Return all Wastelands and Ghost Quarters.

This does give a 4 cost land recursion spell to navigate around Counterbalance.

I'd rather leave them in the yard and just start slamming Worm Harvests.

[jhport12]

This is one sided. Return all Wastelands and Ghost Quarters.

This does give a 4 cost land recursion spell to navigate around Counterbalance.

Do you have a link to this specific wording? The only thing I have seen was on mtgsalvation.com which states "Return all lands from the graveyard to the battlefield tapped."

[barcode]

Do you have a link to this specific wording? The only thing I have seen was on mtgsalvation.com which states "Return all lands from the graveyard to the battlefield tapped."

http://mythicspoiler.com/emn/cards/stunninggrowth.html

Return all land cards from your graveyard to the battlefield tapped.

[chaosjace]

http://mythicspoiler.com/emn/cards/stunninggrowth.html

Return all land cards from your graveyard to the battlefield tapped.

This looks like something I would want to play, but is there room for it? amulet of vigor would let them into play untapped... time for some more combo shenanigans

[jhport12]

This looks like something I would want to play, but is there room for it? amulet of vigor would let them into play untapped... time for some more combo shenanigans

So what is the quickest way to get a ton of lands in the graveyard? Because after we cast this spell, we are supposed to win the game.

[Dice_Box]

That sounds like a deck you guys could start in Developing. I don't see it fitting in here.

[supremePINEAPPLE]

Yeah, it's an interesting card but I'm about as skeptical as possible if you just throw it in a normal build. It's a 4cmc card that can't be recurred, requires setup, and just does the same thing we already do as a big splashy effect.

[Chatto]

This looks like something I would want to play, but is there room for it? amulet of vigor would let them into play untapped... time for some more combo shenanigans

We already have good combo, and it goes by the name Marit Lage... No need for more. In comparison: it takes less setup, and is recurring. I like the card, but unless you guys come with a briljant idea I'm not going to try the card in RGCL.


Yeah, it's an interesting card but I'm about as skeptical as possible if you just throw it in a normal build. It's a 4cmc card that can't be recurred, requires setup, and just does the same thing we already do as a big splashy effect.

Agreed, to extend: it would require a completely different deck, with perhaps Marit Lage as a back-up.

[Skyl3lazer]

Go Kevin King! Main board Boesiju doing work against Miracles!

[filln]

Loving Matthew Dilks' 63 card main list (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=105128) that placed 23rd today. FOUR Ghost Quarters in addition to a full set of Wasteland.

[non-inflammable]

Loving Matthew Dilks' 63 card main list (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=105128) that placed 23rd today. FOUR Ghost Quarters in addition to a full set of Wasteland.

and 4 explore!

[filln]

and 4 explore!

Wow didn't even notice that. Looks like he subbed out Gamble for Explore.

[supremePINEAPPLE]

4 ghost quarters is just rude...

Kevin King's list looked great overall. He's cramming a lot of good stuff in to the deck and his miracles matchup looked pretty nice.

[UnsungHero]

Made it all the way to the Top 4 at a Nerd Rage Gaming legacy event with 97 people. Came out with $100 and 12 EMA packs that had some real good stuff in them.

R1: Dredge 2-0
R2: UR Delver 2-1
R3: Shardless Bug 2-0
R4: Miracles 2-1
R5: Dredge 2-1 (Feature Match against a friend)
R6: ID
R7: ID

Quarterfinals: White Eldrazi
Going into this round I actually have a game loss for a deck registration error. But I manage to beat Eldrazi pretty quickly.

Semi-Finals: Belcher 0-2

Thoughts
I'm still running 61 cards with Ghost Quarter as the 61st card and Bog Main. Tireless Tracker has def proved its slot, helping beat Miracles and Eldrazi.

Ive been running this sideboard
3 Chalice of the Void
4 Sphere of Resistance
4 Krosan Grip
2 Tireless Tracker
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 Karakas

If you care to watch you can watch:
https://www.twitch.tv/nerdragegaminglive/v/77306385

4:10 is where I play a pretty fun and interesting Dredge match against I play against often.
8:06 is where I lose against Belcher.

[Deadinthestreet]

Hi, is this the correct thread for the combo lands deck Jarvis Yu runs? I am finishing up building his deck list and am looking for the correct thread to start looking through. Also does he post on here by chance?

Thank you

[Dice_Box]

Yes and sometimes.

[filln]

@UnsungHero Congrats on the finish! Also, that's actually my hometown! Never knew there was a Legacy scene there. Will have to bring back my deck next time I'm back.

[supremePINEAPPLE]

The 4 explore, 4 ghost quarter build is just an error. It was a normal gamble build playing a single ghost quarter according to the pilot on reddit (https://www.reddit.com/r/MTGLegacy/comments/4s81u7/scg_worcester_open_results_top_32_decklists_with/d57ursg).

[jhport12]

If you care to watch you can watch:
https://www.twitch.tv/nerdragegaminglive/v/77306385

4:10 is where I play a pretty fun and interesting Dredge match against I play against often.
8:06 is where I lose against Belcher.

At 4:15 or thereabouts, you play 4 lands in one turn. You play Grove (1) , then Heath (2) and crack it for Taiga, you then play Foothills (3), cast Loam for the Misty and Heath and then play the Heath (4) for the second time that turn.

You start the Turn with two lands in play and end with SIX.

I am going to assume this was a mistake on your part. I definitely make mistakes about how many lands I have played in a turn only to have my opponent correct me. It's cost me a game or two by giving free information about the land that I now have in my hand because I couldn't actually play it.

But man, I am shocked that the announcers, your opponent, and any nearby spectators or judges didn't see you do that!

[supremePINEAPPLE]

After listening for a few minutes I'm not surprised that those commentators were missing things...

I personally had to get into the habit of announcing my land drops to prevent myself from doing that too often after playing in easy-mode on MTGO for too long.

[Dice_Box]

I use beads, moving them on and off my Explorations as I make land drops. Just to stop arguments.

[UnsungHero]

At 4:15 or thereabouts, you play 4 lands in one turn. You play Grove (1) , then Heath (2) and crack it for Taiga, you then play Foothills (3), cast Loam for the Misty and Heath and then play the Heath (4) for the second time that turn.

You start the Turn with two lands in play and end with SIX.

I am going to assume this was a mistake on your part. I definitely make mistakes about how many lands I have played in a turn only to have my opponent correct me. It's cost me a game or two by giving free information about the land that I now have in my hand because I couldn't actually play it.

But man, I am shocked that the announcers, your opponent, and any nearby spectators or judges didn't see you do that!
I watched it again and it was defiantly rough. I have no idea why I did that. I know my opponent pretty well and we were shooting the shit during our match the whole time and thats probably where I lost track of things.


After listening for a few minutes I'm not surprised that those commentators were missing things...

I personally had to get into the habit of announcing my land drops to prevent myself from doing that too often after playing in easy-mode on MTGO for too long.
I certainly need to improve on that.

I'm usually pretty good about it, but I certainly can improve after watching a camera match. I have never been on camera before, so watching from the other side, seeing lines of play and how I can become better is defiantly a motivating factor for me.

The Blecher match the constant loaming with thicket was very draining. That depths did not want to show up.


I use beads, moving them on and off my Explorations as I make land drops. Just to stop arguments.

Might have to try this.

[heckler]

you could have played a little tighter. It wouldn't have changed the outcome in this circumstance though.

You had multiple turns with one or two stages in play while chasm was out and you let it drop. In order to replay chasm it takes both land drops. you could have copied with stage intermittently to build your board up while not paying life at all. Loam back 2nd stage and play 2 lands and repeat, building up a land a turn.

But like I said, wouldn't have changed the problem of the hidden dark depths.

[UnsungHero]

you could have played a little tighter. It wouldn't have changed the outcome in this circumstance though.

You had multiple turns with one or two stages in play while chasm was out and you let it drop. In order to replay chasm it takes both land drops. you could have copied with stage intermittently to build your board up while not paying life at all. Loam back 2nd stage and play 2 lands and repeat, building up a land a turn.

But like I said, wouldn't have changed the problem of the hidden dark depths.

I totally agree. My thought process was just finding Dark Depths. Must have loamed like 12 times before I found it.

I think going forward I'm going to flip my Explorations upside down when I use the extra land of Exploration. (Similar to when elves players flip Wirewood Symbiote when they use the bounce effect.)
Also thanks to everyone in the thread for all the tips. Gonna continue to practice to get better and keep doing well!

[Chatto]

I think going forward I'm going to flip my Explorations upside down when I use the extra land of Exploration. (Similar to when elves players flip Wirewood Symbiote when they use the bounce effect.)

That's actually a really good idea, going to copy it!

[barcode]

That's actually a really good idea, going to copy it!

Yup. Stolen.

[Dominic Pain]

took lands to a small local tournament this past weekend, top prize was a dual + store credit, ended up intentional second

2-0 against like a homebrew mono black depths/reanimator deck
2-0 against infect
2-1 against Belcher
drew into top 4 against storm

top 4
2-0 vs infect

finals was me vs storm, he offered all the credit if he could take the dual and head home, snap took that offer

the store is gonna try running it back every weekend so maybe I'll dodge storm a little better next time

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[bfeingersh]

First time out with Lands at SCG Worcester this past weekend. Finished 11-4 after a disappointing day 2.

http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=105125

Matchups:
R1: W G/B Hexmage depths (1-0)
R2: L Sneak/Show with Omni (1-1)
R3: W Maverick (2-1)
R4: W U/R delver (3-1)
R5: W Shardless BUG (4-1)
R6: W Shardless BUG (5-1)
R7: W Miracles with md Back to Basics (6-1)
R8: W Grixis Delver (7-1)
R9: W Jund (8-1)

R10: W Infect (9-1)
R11: L Lossett's Miracles (9-2)
R12: L Infect (9-3)
R13: W Tenjum's shardless-less BUG control (10-3)
R14: L Reanimator (10-4)
R15: W Eldrazi (11-4)

Quick thoughts:
- At the player meeting I made the last minute change of -Fetchland +Karakas, freeing up a sideboard slot for a second Boil. I was immediately punished with a bunch of Combo + Manabond + Karakas hands that I had to mulligan.
- Tireless Tracker was embarrassingly bad all weekend. I made 25-30 clues and cracked none of them, because porting my opponent was always a better use of mana. If I played a similar card in the future, I would splash for Confidant (thinking 4 Fetch/2 Taiga/1 Forest with a Bayou somewhere in the 75, likely boarded)
- Either Portal or 2nd Thicket can probably go in favor of a Ghost Quarter or a Bayou (if I end up splashing Confidant)
- Playing Boseiju main like Kevin did seems kind of crazy, but it looks like a much better plan to beat miracles than having Goblin Roughrider anywhere in your deck.

[CovenantElite30]

First time out with Lands at SCG Worcester this past weekend. Finished 11-4 after a disappointing day 2.

http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=105125

Matchups:
R1: W G/B Hexmage depths (1-0)
R2: L Sneak/Show with Omni (1-1)
R3: W Maverick (2-1)
R4: W U/R delver (3-1)
R5: W Shardless BUG (4-1)
R6: W Shardless BUG (5-1)
R7: W Miracles with md Back to Basics (6-1)
R8: W Grixis Delver (7-1)
R9: W Jund (8-1)

R10: W Infect (9-1)
R11: L Lossett's Miracles (9-2)
R12: L Infect (9-3)
R13: W Tenjum's shardless-less BUG control (10-3)
R14: L Reanimator (10-4)
R15: W Eldrazi (11-4)

Quick thoughts:
- At the player meeting I made the last minute change of -Fetchland +Karakas, freeing up a sideboard slot for a second Boil. I was immediately punished with a bunch of Combo + Manabond + Karakas hands that I had to mulligan.
- Tireless Tracker was embarrassingly bad all weekend. I made 25-30 clues and cracked none of them, because porting my opponent was always a better use of mana. If I played a similar card in the future, I would splash for Confidant (thinking 4 Fetch/2 Taiga/1 Forest with a Bayou somewhere in the 75, likely boarded)
- Either Portal or 2nd Thicket can probably go in favor of a Ghost Quarter or a Bayou (if I end up splashing Confidant)
- Playing Boseiju main like Kevin did seems kind of crazy, but it looks like a much better plan to beat miracles than having Goblin Roughrider anywhere in your deck.
Tracker is generally easier to cast and can take over a game by itself.

I guess Bob is a better card drawer but not so great at winning the game.

What matchups were you bringing tracker in for?

[jhport12]

I, too, am curious to understand how you used Tireless Tracker and under what circumstances it was underwhelming.

I played Lands at SCG Worcester and went 6-3, missing out on Day Two. But I had one game against Miracles where the power of Tireless Tracker was pretty clear.

Sadly I wasn't able to win the game, but it took two Monastery Mentors to protect my opponent from my Tracker after a few hard hits knocked him on his heels. If I had gotten better draws off of sacrificing Clues, I might have made Day Two.

I have found that Tracker is good in match-ups like Miracles, Karakas and/or Reliquary Knight decks, and other grindy decks. I don't bring it in for Shardless right now, because that's already a good matchup. That said, Tracker feels very good for any matchup where Games 2-3 I will be expecting heavy graveyard hate AND they don't plan to win with Tendrils or cheating a big creature into play (Reanimator/Sneak Attack).

[jarvisyu]

I still disagree about Feingersh re: tireless tracker.

Dude, the card is a great backup engine.

'- Tireless Tracker was embarrassingly bad all weekend. I made 25-30 clues and cracked none of them, because porting my opponent was always a better use of mana.'

I can't say for sure that this is the case, but if you have tracker living and loam going, it doesn't even matter if it's in your deck or not, yeah.


Also, Feingersh should just concede that I'm right after losing the finals of the mtgo PTQ with my deck : P

[Fuzzy]

Let me ask you something.

I realized that Geier Reach Sanitarium (The loot Mikokoro) sinergizes with Chains of Mephistopheles.

Anyone toying with the black splash thinks it's playable?

[Claymore]

2, T: Each player draws a card, then discards a card.

How does it combo with Chains? Chains only ever lets someone draw their drawstep card, anything else (even you, on the opponent's turn) don't get anything without discarding first.

And if you dredged Loam with the draw trigger while hellbent, you'd discard Loam anyway.

Just using it to trash their hand? It does make a halfway decent impression of Raven's crime in that case, but seems slow. What would you use it against, Miracles?

The card does seem good to give you an option of taking your natural draw every turn to look for Gambles/Crops instead of desparately Loaming.

[Fuzzy]

How does it combo with Chains?

If you use this ability on your opponent's draw step, they will discard up to two cards. On an empty hand, they will discard the card they drew for their turn, making a "soft lock". Also, Dredging a Loam isn't a draw since it's a replacement effect, so you can do this trick to avoid your own Chains.

[Dice_Box]

Chains is bad. I tried it and can not be bothered looking for my rant. In short, it doesn't work here because your not putting a clock down fast enough to make it effective. A person facing it can just take a few extra turns before they kill you.

We have better options. This new interaction is cute, that's all.

[Croprot]

I also haven't had great use of tireless tracker. I've found that boseiju is usually enough plus a chalice to weaken their lock pieces that miracles has if it's even necessary along with a ghost quarter. I've cut my riftstone portal entirely as I think having a land that does something good in play is better. One thing I have to say is that although tracker comes down on 3 I find that I'm using mana for other means once the clues are produced, and the card advantage potential simply doesn't materialize. Also it's nearly useless in other match ups I've found. I think prime time is still where we want to be if we are siding in a creature as its use is better against more decks and if it ever gets to attack there's almost nothing that will bring an opponent back unless they were going to win to begin with.

[jhport12]

I also haven't had great use of tireless tracker. I've found that boseiju is usually enough plus a chalice to weaken their lock pieces that miracles has if it's even necessary along with a ghost quarter. I've cut my riftstone portal entirely as I think having a land that does something good in play is better. One thing I have to say is that although tracker comes down on 3 I find that I'm using mana for other means once the clues are produced, and the card advantage potential simply doesn't materialize. Also it's nearly useless in other match ups I've found. I think prime time is still where we want to be if we are siding in a creature as its use is better against more decks and if it ever gets to attack there's almost nothing that will bring an opponent back unless they were going to win to begin with.

It's good to get many different perspectives. I suspect there might be a difference in how the people who like Tireless Tracker are using it. Not that people who don't like Tracker are using it wrong, per se.

I have been Blood Moon'd by more than one Miracles deck lately, so Boseiju doesn't help there. Also Boseiju doesn't help you when your Loams have been Extracted or Rest in Peace'd (and you don't always have a Tranquil Thicket in hand to protect it). Overcoming Counterbalance is only Hurdle #1, I have found, when it comes to fighting Miracles.

Tireless Tracker is a different attack vector that can come out much sooner than Primeval Titan while also avoiding graveyard hate. If you have better things to do than sacrifice a Clue, then you are clearly in a good position. I've been in plenty of games, however, where having a Clue to crack would have been a godsend. It's also nice to force Miracles to deal with a 7/6 Tracker with their single Terminus or Swords, freeing us up to drop a Marit Lage.

Trackers can also be useful against Reliquary Knight decks, which is a tough matchup where card advantage matters. Boseiju, not so much.

[jhport12]

I notice a handful of players only put 3 Dark Depths in their main, leaving a 4th in their board. I'm curious to know what match-ups you bring the 4th Dark Depths in for?

[Dice_Box]

Any deck you need to be faster against. You bring it in when your racing.

[jhport12]

Any deck you need to be faster against. You bring it in when your racing.

Thank you for the response. I guess I wasn't very clear with my question. Why someone sideboards in a 4th Dark Depths (i.e., to be faster) was not the question I was asking. I was looking more specifically to learn which specific match-ups. As in, an actual list of archetypes (Storm, Sneak, Miracles, etc.).

Under your rubric of needing to be faster, what then would be the decks you feel you need to be faster against? For example, are you saying that you would bring in a 4th Depths for Storm, Sneak & Show and/or Elves? Any others?

I'm trying to understand the relative value of having one less combo piece main-deck in every game 1 in order to fit a different card (e.g., Karakas, Bojuka Bog, Boseiju) in its place. I've had more than a couple games with too many Dark Depths in hand, so I appreciate that unpleasantness. That said, I've also had more than a couple games spent digging frantically for a Depths despite having 4 main.

[Dice_Box]

Depths on its own does little. So when your trying to make your deck as rounded as possible, to give you the most shots at winning as possible, you want to cut the things that on their own offer minimal impact and put in those few things that can overwhelming help.

After sideboard your looking at being more streamlined. It's post side that cards that slow you down get removed and you push your deck more in a given direction, be it more control, more combo or answering expected sideboard threats. This is where the other Depths comes in.

A card like Bog helps against Tarmogoyf, Reanimator, Snapcaster, opposing Loams, ANT, Infect (Delve) and other such decks.

Karakas helps against SnT, DnT, Reanimator (if they are foolish) the mirror, some builds of Miracles and other such things. Though personally I don't have one in my 75, if going to a large event I would likely have one main.

So the question is what do you want to sure yourself up against for Game one? Personally, I have nothing but praise for Bog main. As for Depths in the side? I would rather something else but it's there for when you become streamlined. The main is "The Jack of all Trades" in it's most optimal build. The sideboard makes it "The Master of some".

[Chatto]

Thank you for the response. I guess I wasn't very clear with my question. Why someone sideboards in a 4th Dark Depths (i.e., to be faster) was not the question I was asking. I was looking more specifically to learn which specific match-ups. As in, an actual list of archetypes (Storm, Sneak, Miracles, etc.).

Under your rubric of needing to be faster, what then would be the decks you feel you need to be faster against? For example, are you saying that you would bring in a 4th Depths for Storm, Sneak & Show and/or Elves? Any others?

I'm trying to understand the relative value of having one less combo piece main-deck in every game 1 in order to fit a different card (e.g., Karakas, Bojuka Bog, Boseiju) in its place. I've had more than a couple games with too many Dark Depths in hand, so I appreciate that unpleasantness. That said, I've also had more than a couple games spent digging frantically for a Depths despite having 4 main.

You got the answer to the question you ask :wink: But in all fairness, the answer is a bit straight-forward. I think there is a reason to that. I would say you know exactly when you would board in the fourth DD (vs fast combo or control), or why some cut the 4th (to fit in that Karakas, Boseiju, or whatnot). I think people make this choice based on playstyle. I personally like to combo as fast as possible, but I know of people who are the more controlling type (4 vs 3 DD)

[CovenantElite30]

You got the answer to the question you ask :wink: But in all fairness, the answer is a bit straight-forward. I think there is a reason to that. I would say you know exactly when you would board in the fourth DD (vs fast combo or control), or why some cut the 4th (to fit in that Karakas, Boseiju, or whatnot). I think people make this choice based on playstyle. I personally like to combo as fast as possible, but I know of people who are the more controlling type (4 vs 3 DD)
I found in my testing that having 4 depths main leads to a much higher game 1 win percentage as you can combo faster. If your going to run 4 depths then I would suggest playing riftstone portal as well to help with the mana.

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[Svyelunite]

[Video/Podcast] Legacy's Allure - Ep. 18, Lands with Jarvis Yu

New episode of Legacy's Allure! Jarvis Yu shares his knowledge and experiences playing the deck that he used to win the 2015 Legacy Grand Prix in Seattle, Lands! Really great information in this episode for newer players and veterans alike.

Webcast: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JsoQdXj-1ok
Podcast: http://shoutengine.com/LegacysAllure/lands-with-jarvis-yu-21698

Also available on iTunes!

[lichking61601]

would someone enlighten me why decklists doesnt include engineered explosives? i think it may help us on some unfavorable matchups. does it deserve a slot?


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[Mammutti]

would someone enlighten me why decklists doesnt include engineered explosives? i think it may help us on some unfavorable matchups. does it deserve a slot?


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EE is a staple in RUG Lands where you can recur it with Academy Ruins and fetch it with Tolaria West. In RG Combo Lands it isn't played for this reason (you dredge it, there's no way to get it back).

[lichking61601]

EE is a staple in RUG Lands where you can recur it with Academy Ruins and fetch it with Tolaria West. In RG Combo Lands it isn't played for this reason (you dredge it, there's no way to get it back).

See Buried Ruins


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[barcode]

See Buried Ruins


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RUG lands is reliably capable of making at least 3 colours of mana without relying on moxes. RG isn't. EE for 2 isn't as good as EE for 3.

No one is stopping you from playing it and Buried Ruins. Let us know how it goes.

[Dice_Box]

DO NOT play ruins. I tried it back when I started this thread, the early pages have my reports on it, why I dislike it and the reasons I will never play it again. The TLDNR? It doesn't solve any issue you need it too in any kind of reasonable time frame.

You have to Loam Ruins, play Ruins, lose the ruins to put the card on the top of your Library and then either wait a turn you can't get Loam back on or have yet another card in hand to make it work. In short, it did some cute things but it's overall effect is damped by the slowness of its effect and how hard it is to recure quickly. You set yourself back to do it and almost never actually get ahead in the exchange.

Edit.

Not put on top, I got it mixed up. The point still stands. It's mana intensive and slow, not solving anything in a fast enough pace that you can capitalise on to make it work. I loved the idea, I just hated it's effect. The times it helped the most were the ones I just drew EE. But even then, it was a card that could have been Grip or something else.

[Crimhead]

EE is an all-star in RUG Lands. I think Buried Ruins recursion is clunkier because of the tempo loss, and slow sweepers are just not as well suited to a deck that leans a little more on speed. Also, RUG runs Intuition, which can grab Academy Ruins, EE, and a Loam all at once. Gamble doesn't do this - it's a faster tutor meant for a faster game-plan.

Unrelated, what do you guys side out against Mentor Miracles? Ill have four Grips, a Chalice, usually Choke or Boil (sometimes with Bosieju), possible Needles or Trackers or Nissas. It's a lot of cards that might be good to bring in. I'll lose the Bog/Karakas (these days Bog), plus the Crop Rotations. Without Mentors I usually board out Tabernacle, Mazes, and most of my Punishing Fires. But I'm not sure this is safe vs Mentors.

Any advice? It's easy cutting cards that are not particularly good in the match. But when Mentor is involved, I have to cut things I that are good but not as good, which is trickier.

For the record, my build runs three PFs and two main deck Vorticies, plus a Worm Harvest & Riftstone Portal. Otherwise it's pretty standard R/G (with 61 cards).

[Dominic Pain]

When I'm siding against miracles, it's usually something like shave some rotations, 2 ish fires, a gamble, manabond, 3 mazes, occasionally tabernacle, karakas, bog if it's in the main, chasm, and side in 4 grips, boseiju, 2 boil, 2 trackers, 2 chalice, and some number of spheres

might have forgotten something, I'm at work without my decklist in front of me but generally 1-drops become impossible to resolve under counter top so you shave those, plus you want your chalice on 1 to prevent swords, mazes generally are dead draws, and they rarely extend enough to where tabernacle does anything

Edit: missed where you said mentor miracles specifically
Against a heavy mentor build you could argue with keeping in a maze or two along with tabernacle, and just cut a mox/gamble/rotation instead

[jhport12]

I haven't found Spheres as useful as I would have hoped against Miracles. I think Spheres really are more for Sneak Attack decks, Storm, Elves and other combo decks.

Crop Rotation also helps get your singleton Boseiju into play. Or if Boseiju is already out, it gets you a Port to tap down a white source.

Maze doesn't really help against Mentor Miracles, but Punishing Fire does (along with Tabernacle, of course).

Here's my current thinking for Mentor Miracles:
IN (11) - 4 Grips, 1 Boseiju, 2 Boil, 2 Trackers, 2 Chalice.
OUT (10) - 3 Maze, 1 Chasm, 1 Bog/Karakas, 1 Manabond, 1 Wasteland, 2 P. Fire, 1 Crop Rotation.

[Lord_Mcdonalds]

If I'm not playing Boseiju, after Maze, Chasm and Manabond, I cut crop rotation entirely, and shave on gambles. Then bring in Grips, spheres and basically everything but bog/Karakas.

If I am, I keep 2-3 Crop Rotation and trim some combination of Punishing fires and Wastelands

Agree with the above, Maze isn't that great against them as they go wide against you and ignore it, Chasm is meh imo, if they are at the point where they are playing Mentor and beating you to death, you're probably losing anyways.

I like Spheres against miracles in general as it makes Port much stronger and randomly let's wasteland be useful, and slows Mentor down significantly.

[j2los]

Can I ask why we keep the singleton Manabond? I get it's a powerful card that can help us be faster in g1, but as a holdover from previous builds of the deck where it was more prevalent it seems so out of place. Consider especially the fact that it's a singleton, yet you're never Gambling for it. What does your opening hand look like to want to gamble for it? Well you need Gamble for one. Then you need a Loam, because otherwise, we can't exploit Manabond and we should have preferably gambled for loam if we didn't. Then if we want to play it on t1 we need a Mox and a land to pitch to it. Then if all that came together, we get an engine that is mildly better than Exploration.

Now assuming we don't gamble for it, it only provides an advantage against decks we need to be faster against. So now you're in a targeted pool of matchups, of which we might as well have other silver bullets in our deck for (karakas, bog, Titan). That and you might not even necessarily recognize the matchup t1, so how much of a fire is under our ass at the moment we are making mull/t1 play decisions?

Is it just Exploration #5 or are do we really have nothing better to play there? Because I suspect we do.

[barcode]

Can I ask why we keep the singleton Manabond? I get it's a powerful card that can help us be faster in g1, but as a holdover from previous builds of the deck where it was more prevalent it seems so out of place. Consider especially the fact that it's a singleton, yet you're never Gambling for it. What does your opening hand look like to want to gamble for it? Well you need Gamble for one. Then you need a Loam, because otherwise, we can't exploit Manabond and we should have preferably gambled for loam if we didn't. Then if we want to play it on t1 we need a Mox and a land to pitch to it. Then if all that came together, we get an engine that is mildly better than Exploration.

Now assuming we don't gamble for it, it only provides an advantage against decks we need to be faster against. So now you're in a targeted pool of matchups, of which we might as well have other silver bullets in our deck for (karakas, bog, Titan). That and you might not even necessarily recognize the matchup t1, so how much of a fire is under our ass at the moment we are making mull/t1 play decisions?

Is it just Exploration #5 or are do we really have nothing better to play there? Because I suspect we do.

I've cut Manabond and I don't miss it except in the mirror (or mirror-like matchups like Pox). Play a better land (like Karakas) instead or make it your 4th Crop Rotation.

[hyp3r1on]

I would definitely stick to playing a singleton copy of Manabond in RG Lands. The card alone allows the deck to play out some its most broken draws preboard. It's also frequently Gambled for to break a mid-game board parity wide open when you lack acceleration and have 7+ cards in hand.

[jhport12]

It's nice to have a 9th (or even 10th) accelerator after 4 Mox Diamond and 4 Exploration. It absolutely allows you to win some games quickly, as well.

It's not a holdover at all, to my mind. And I have definitely Gambled for it before.

I suppose, if you want, you can try Burgeoning and see how it goes. I've never seen a list with Burgeoning in place of Manabond. In a world of fetchlands, some might argue it is stronger than Exploration (I personally wouldn't make that argument).

[hyp3r1on]

I've actually played with Burgeoning before in a Lands-based Tiny Leaders deck a year ago and it's actually pretty bad. Definitely a lot worse than it looks on paper. That deck also had a Bazaar of Baghdad in it. Let me tell you - the degeneracy you can exploit with Life from the Loam and company with a Bazaar is something to be witnessed firsthand haha : )

[Chatto]

I've actually played with Burgeoning before in a Lands-based Tiny Leaders deck a year ago and it's actually pretty bad. Definitely a lot worse than it looks on paper. That deck also had a Bazaar of Baghdad in it. Let me tell you - the degeneracy you can exploit with Life from the Loam and company with a Bazaar is something to be witnessed firsthand haha : )

Tiny Leaders, you say? Could you PM a link?

Related: Manabond is such a card you either hate or love. Personally, I have tried builds with, and without: both have their merits. In the end I kept Manabond as a one-of, just because of it's ability to let you combo very very fast. I have done that multiple times now. Nothing beats ramming your combo down T1, while your opponent is slowly realising that he/ she should have used that FoW in hand.

[Ciubulu]

Manabond is a must for me...I'd like to have enough space me for a second.
Against an unknown opponent I always try to start with a piece of acceleration: we have 9 in the deck (including manabond) that look so much but sometime is not enough and if there's a way to lose against a deck we otherwise we are favorite is to be too slow.
The side-out after g1 is not a good argument: i can say the same for tabernacle.


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[Lord_Mcdonalds]

Honesty of the two builds (combo and control) it seems most at home here, we want to power out a dark depths as soon as possible, we want to draw through our deck as quickly as possible, so on and so forth. Also explosive starts + loam gives us our best shot at beating miracles IMO.

[Alexeezay]

I'm not completely sure vs SneakShow. Would you board Boil/Chalice?
Standard list, 3 Depths 1 Karakas 1 Boseiju MD + SB:
4 Sphere
4 K Grip
2 Boil
2 Tracker
1 Primeval Titan
1 Bog
1 Chalice

I'm at:
-4 Punishing Fire, -1 Manabond, -1 Life from the Loam, -1 Tabernacle, -1 Glacial Chasm, -1 Maze of Ith
+4 Sphere, +4 K Grip, +1 Primeval Titan

little fun note: With Sphere and Chalice on 1 out, you can use Boseiju to play Gamble/Crop Rotation through it.

[barcode]

I'm not completely sure vs SneakShow. Would you board Boil/Chalice?
Standard list, 3 Depths 1 Karakas 1 Boseiju MD + SB:
4 Sphere
4 K Grip
2 Boil
2 Tracker
1 Primeval Titan
1 Bog
1 Chalice

I'm at:
-4 Punishing Fire, -1 Manabond, -1 Life from the Loam, -1 Tabernacle, -1 Glacial Chasm, -1 Maze of Ith
+4 Sphere, +4 K Grip, +1 Primeval Titan

little fun note: With Sphere and Chalice on 1 out, you can use Boseiju to play Gamble/Crop Rotation through it.


I want these: 4 sphere, 2 tracker, 4 grip, 1 titan, 1 chalice.

In my list I cut:
tabernacle, 2 maze (leave 1 in), 1 bog, 1 loam, 1 wasteland, 4 punishing fire, 1 worm harvest, 1 chasm

My list is not like yours so ymmv. (I also want the needle and 2 other tracker from my sideboard)

[Deadinthestreet]

I just finished building this deck and am still learning a lot of the ins and outs. Quick question was about the card Glacial Chasm. It does a pretty basic static effect when it's out but I am confused at where this card is at its best, tips and tricks to do with it, and when to side it out? Any help would be awesome as it's the one card I don't know how to use to its max potential yet.

Thank you

[barcode]

I just finished building this deck and am still learning a lot of the ins and outs. Quick question was about the card Glacial Chasm. It does a pretty basic static effect when it's out but I am confused at where this card is at its best, tips and tricks to do with it, and when to side it out? Any help would be awesome as it's the one card I don't know how to use to its max potential yet.

Thank you

When paired with Exploration:

Burn can't beat it. UR Delver can't beat it. Infect can't really beat it.

The card buys a lot of time to set up the win.

[Dominic Pain]

Tips with Chasm: combined with loam, exploration and stages, copy the chasm in response to its upkeep, sac the original and loam it back to prevent destroying your life total. sets up a lovely soft lock keeping the aforementioned decks from killing you

side it out against decks like miracles, storm, mud, shardless, etc.

I did unexpectedly find it's super good vs Belcher tho so like value

Sent from my XT1064 using Tapatalk

[Chatto]

I just finished building this deck and am still learning a lot of the ins and outs. Quick question was about the card Glacial Chasm. It does a pretty basic static effect when it's out but I am confused at where this card is at its best, tips and tricks to do with it, and when to side it out? Any help would be awesome as it's the one card I don't know how to use to its max potential yet.

Thank you

Check this link for an example of Chasm in Action (http://youtu.be/FVTg0Hsl1Iw)

[jhport12]

When paired with Exploration:

Burn can't beat it. UR Delver can't beat it. Infect can't really beat it.

The card buys a lot of time to set up the win.

Infect has Wasteland combined with Crop Rotation, so you have to be careful against them. They also love to cast Vines of Vastwood when you Port them, which also nullifies your Maze of Ith.

[Chatto]

Infect has Wasteland combined with Crop Rotation, so you have to be careful against them. They also love to cast Vines of Vastwood when you Port them, which also nullifies your Maze of Ith.

That's why you need a Exploration, to keep a Chasm-lock in play. It's not easy, either way. Eventually you will out-grind Infect.

EDIT: check the link I posted earlier on, it gives you a perfect example. By the way, Kevin King is a really good player, check his MU's via my link.

[n0ct3m89]

Especially agains decks without reach like infect, feel free to eat a couple chasm triggers if you feel like it will help you stabilize. Just because you can eventually set it up where you dont take damage from chasm anymore means you never should eat a tigger or two

[barcode]

Check this link for an example of Chasm in Action (http://youtu.be/FVTg0Hsl1Iw)

That was extremely wreckless of him. D&T plays 4 Wasteland and 4 Flickerwisp. This is why he got the draw - he tried to be cute. At any point, if his opponent draws a Wasteland or Flickerwisp he auto loses.

[Chatto]

That was extremely wreckless of him. D&T plays 4 Wasteland and 4 Flickerwisp. This is why he got the draw - he tried to be cute. At any point, if his opponent draws a Wasteland or Flickerwisp he auto loses.

I'm not talking about the outcome, I merely illustrate the Chasm in Action. Either way, he did not have the kill, and he would be dead without even trying the Chasm-lock.

[barcode]

I'm not talking about the outcome, I merely illustrate the Chasm in Action. Either way, he did not have the kill, and he would be dead without even trying the Chasm-lock.

Okay. As an example of the Chasm lock it's a good one. But I don't want people to think it's viable in most games against Death & Taxes because I think the majority of the time King gets punished. I could go on a length about King's play in that match. I have no doubt he's a skilled player (He made top 8 of Champs after 11 swiss rounds last year) but his playstyle is pretty dang wreckless for me.

[Chatto]

Okay. As an example of the Chasm lock it's a good one. But I don't want people to think it's viable in most games against Death & Taxes because I think the majority of the time King gets punished. I could go on a length about King's play in that match. I have no doubt he's a skilled player (He made top 8 of Champs after 11 swiss rounds last year) but his playstyle is pretty dang wreckless for me.

You are right, I should have stated earlier on what I was trying to illustrate, my bad. I also agree regarding D&T: you do not want to rely on a Chasm-lock during this MU.

King has a certain playstyle, which can be called wreckless. I still like it (to a certain degree), though, but it requires a lot of games with RGCL.

[Alexeezay]

@ barcode interesting. Does that mean you got 4 Trackers in your sideboard atm? :D

[barcode]

@ barcode interesting. Does that mean you got 4 Trackers in your sideboard atm? :D

Yup. The card is absurd. Have you ever resolved it?

[hyp3r1on]

I've noticed through watching various Lands players play on coverage - some have very strong "Glacial Chasm game" and some not so much. "Glacial Chasm game" is kind of a micro-skill set with the deck. Basically what I mean is that in tight situations some Lands players are very good at managing their life total and playing around multiple things to keep up the Chasm lock and work towards a defined victory condition. Others are a little bit too careless and leave themselves over-exposed while trying to Chasm lock. Others just don't have a game plan and kind of dig themselves into a hole that they can't get out of and can't win the game. Basically, some just get a little bit loose because maintaining a Chasm lock can be very stressful - especially when you have to play around certain elements.

This is a really good video of barcode playing out a Chasm lock against UR Delver - playing around as much as possible and working towards a defined victory condition:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1fL3QPVQ-8 (Starts at about 1:05:00)

[Chatto]

Yup. The card is absurd. Have you ever resolved it?

Yup, in my opinion it's the real deal. You're playing four? You've been converted? :wink: I'm on three right now.

[barcode]

I've noticed through watching various Lands players play on coverage - some have very strong "Glacial Chasm game" and some not so much. "Glacial Chasm game" is kind of a micro-skill set with the deck. Basically what I mean is that in tight situations some Lands players are very good at managing their life total and playing around multiple things to keep up the Chasm lock and work towards a defined victory condition. Others are a little bit too careless and leave themselves over-exposed while trying to Chasm lock. Others just don't have a game plan and kind of dig themselves into a hole that they can't get out of and can't win the game. Basically, some just get a little bit loose because maintaining a Chasm lock can be very stressful - especially when you have to play around certain elements.

This is a really good video of barcode playing out a Chasm lock against UR Delver - playing around as much as possible and working towards a defined victory condition:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1fL3QPVQ-8 (Starts at about 1:05:00)

I even made a mistake in that game, it might be hard to spot if you -- the viewer -- can't see my graveyard and library.

[CovenantElite30]

Yup. The card is absurd. Have you ever resolved it?
What did you cut to fit the 4 in?
What does your sideboard look like?

[barcode]

What did you cut to fit the 4 in?
What does your sideboard look like?


4 Tireless Tracker
4 Krosan Grip
3 Sphere of Resistance
2 Chalice of the Void
1 Pithing Needle
1 Primeval Titan

What did I cut? I cut cards like the 4th Crop Rotation and 4th Dark Depths to fit in Karakas and Bog in my starting 60. Hell, I even have a Ghost Quarter and Worm Harvest in the starting 60.

[CovenantElite30]

4 Tireless Tracker
4 Krosan Grip
3 Sphere of Resistance
2 Chalice of the Void
1 Pithing Needle
1 Primeval Titan

What did I cut? I cut cards like the 4th Crop Rotation and 4th Dark Depths to fit in Karakas and Bog in my starting 60. Hell, I even have a Ghost Quarter and Worm Harvest in the starting 60.
Do you find yourself bringing tireless tracker in almost every matchup now as another win con?

[barcode]

Do you find yourself bringing tireless tracker in almost every matchup now as another win con?

Yup. It just takes over the game. If I have Exploration and find a Loam things just get out of hand.

[myopic]

I even made a mistake in that game, it might be hard to spot if you -- the viewer -- can't see my graveyard and library.

Played 3 lands in one turn at 1:15 I suppose.
You were also open for bolts when both chasms went away previously, but that was mentioned by the commentators. forgot to waste your Stage/Casm before loaming would be my route.

In the final game you were vulnerable to submerge. A Crop Rotate on the forest would be safer.

[Dice_Box]

4 Tireless Tracker
4 Krosan Grip
3 Sphere of Resistance
2 Chalice of the Void
1 Pithing Needle
1 Primeval Titan

What did I cut? I cut cards like the 4th Crop Rotation and 4th Dark Depths to fit in Karakas and Bog in my starting 60. Hell, I even have a Ghost Quarter and Worm Harvest in the starting 60.
I would cut the Prime for a Riftstone if you're running four Tracker. The two are just a wonderful pair.

[Crimhead]

I would cut the Prime for a Riftstone if you're running four Tracker. The two are just a wonderful pair.
I haven't played TT yet, how does it work well with Riftstone? Is it just the extra mana production from Portal complimenting the extra mana costs of sacrificing clues? I guess if we are going for an alternate victory condition, DD gotta do something? Also Tabernacle will tap to pay for TT?

I've been running Riftstone main, but I'm thinking of swapping Nissas from the board in favour of Trackers.

[CovenantElite30]

4 Tireless Tracker
4 Krosan Grip
3 Sphere of Resistance
2 Chalice of the Void
1 Pithing Needle
1 Primeval Titan

What did I cut? I cut cards like the 4th Crop Rotation and 4th Dark Depths to fit in Karakas and Bog in my starting 60. Hell, I even have a Ghost Quarter and Worm Harvest in the starting 60.

Do you miss not having access to boil and boseiju in your sideboard?

[Crimhead]

Do you miss not having access to boil and boseiju in your sideboard?
I'm thinking of a similar board:
-1 PrimeTime
-1 Chalice
-1 Tracker

+1 Bosieju
+2 Boil (thinking of trying Flashfires)

And maybe additionally:
-1 Tracker
+1 Needle

Really excited to try the Trackers though!
I never ran a Thalia or a Bob because hate bears just aren't my style. This guy's a beater I could get behind though.

[kravkenov]

I haven't played TT yet, how does it work well with Riftstone?
Also Tabernacle will tap to pay for TT?

Yes, with a riftstone in your graveyard, Tabernacle will produce mana to pay for Tracker. It is also true with a Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth in play.

[Crimhead]

Yes, with a riftstone in your graveyard, Tabernacle will produce mana to pay for Tracker. It is also true with a Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth in play.Sorry if I was unclear. I'm not questioning how the mechanics work - I'm just wondering what makes Riftstone & Tracker particularly good together.

Tracker demands mana out of us because of clues and Tabernacle costs.

Also maybe it blocks sometimes making our Mazes less useful and Riftstone offsets that? To put it another way, Riftstone is great for Tabernacle and Chasm, but not as food with Mazes because they have another tap ability and they can't tap for both. If Tracker means using Maze less often defensively, maybe Tracker enhances the Riftstone + Maze dynamic.

This all seems great, I'm just wondering if I am missing some other kind of interaction.

[barfly]

Do you miss not having access to boil and boseiju in your sideboard?
No. Boil and boseiju are just not where I want to be against miracles. Attacking the mana just isn't a good game plan unless somehow they didn't entreat or cast Jace.

I want proactive cards like chalice, sphere and tracker.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

[kravkenov]

Sorry if I was unclear. I'm not questioning how the mechanics work - I'm just wondering what makes Riftstone & Tracker particularly good together.

Riftstone give all your lands "Tap: add G or W". This is really useful when you want crack some clue because with all the non-mana lands in the deck (Mazes, Depths, Tabernacle, Chasm and fetch in a lesser purpose), having a mana-enabler is huge. Usually, you wont tape maze on your main phase, but rather in the end of turn of your opponent. Riftstone just enable more mana-producing -in color- and is maybe be a bit more stronger than Urborg.

[Djehuti]

Sorry if I was unclear. I'm not questioning how the mechanics work - I'm just wondering what makes Riftstone & Tracker particularly good together.

Tracker demands mana out of us because of clues and Tabernacle costs.

Also maybe it blocks sometimes making our Mazes less useful and Riftstone offsets that? To put it another way, Riftstone is great for Tabernacle and Chasm, but not as food with Mazes because they have another tap ability and they can't tap for both. If Tracker means using Maze less often defensively, maybe Tracker enhances the Riftstone + Maze dynamic.

This all seems great, I'm just wondering if I am missing some other kind of interaction.

Makes worm harvest much easier to cast which barcode is running 1 of.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk

[heckler]

for boseiju/boil:

When it works, it does the job very well. The problem I find is that it takes many pieces coming together in the right sequence to make it pay off. It is far more likely I get a fast hand and just roll over the opponent with recurring marit lage.

I've only had one game against miracles where a tracker was answered with a swords that left marit lage to attack a couple turns later, and have never had it close out a miracles game by itself. One has let me draw an extra 3 cards that let me see deeper into my deck but the clock ran out.

But, even if tracker isn't a silver bullet, it's a single card that you can get use out of without having to set up a complicated order of operations. It also has game against other matchups, making it worthy of the sideboard slots. I currently run 3 in the board (would run 4 but it still dies to swords, decay and bolt early enough to make it not stick most of the time).

[Chatto]

for boseiju/boil:

When it works, it does the job very well. The problem I find is that it takes many pieces coming together in the right sequence to make it pay off. It is far more likely I get a fast hand and just roll over the opponent with recurring marit lage. (...)

What do you mean with "it takes many pieces coming together in the right sequence"? Either you cast Boil with or without Boseiju, or do I miss something. I do agree that a fast and recurring Marit Lage will almost always be preferable over casting a Boil.

[barcode]

What do you mean with "it takes many pieces coming together in the right sequence"? Either you cast Boil with or without Boseiju, or do I miss something. I do agree that a fast and recurring Marit Lage will almost always be preferable over casting a Boil.

Boseiju is a one-of. You can try and Crop Rotation for it but if it's forced you probably lose. If they have a counterbalance and you try and rotate for Boseiju you probably lose.

Miracles threat point is two mana, four mana and then N mana.

Casting Boil on turn 4 is probably good enough unless they have access to more lands (Plains, fetches) and a top - hands which they're encouraged to keep.

Then there are the draws where you can cast Boil on turn 4 before Jace has come down or an Entreat was cast and they can just draw out of it because there's no way to capitalize on the double sinkhole.

[CovenantElite30]

I would cut the Prime for a Riftstone if you're running four Tracker. The two are just a wonderful pair.

Dice wanted to give you props on the great legacy podcast you are a part of.
https://thesaltminesite.com/2016/07/26/the-salt-mine-episode-4-br-announcement-discussion-and-building-a-legacy-scene-feat-dice_box-from-the-source/

Anyway we can get you to post your currently pimped lands deck I heard you were putting together?

Could you guys do a full in-depth deck tech of your lands version on a episode?

Thanks man keep up the great work!

[Crimhead]

Just finished listing to the Legacy's Allure podcast (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?30867-Video-Podcast-Legacy-s-Allure-Ep-18-Lands-with-Jarvis-Yu), where Jarvis Yu says he tends to muligan for acceleration (Mox, Exploration, or Manabond). I've always looked for a Loam first and foremost, particularly G1 when I'm not sure what deck I'm facing.

Do you guys look first for a Loam too, or is that a habit I've picked up from running mostly RUG Lands? I usually toss a hand with acceleration unless it has Loam, a Gamble, Punishing Grove or a fast combo (or sometimes I like acceleration plus a Port). What do you guys do?

[barcode]

Just finished listing to the Legacy's Allure podcast (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?30867-Video-Podcast-Legacy-s-Allure-Ep-18-Lands-with-Jarvis-Yu), where Jarvis Yu says he tends to muligan for acceleration (Mox, Exploration, or Manabond). I've always looked for a Loam first and foremost, particularly G1 when I'm not sure what deck I'm facing.

Do you guys look first for a Loam too, or is that a habit I've picked up from running mostly RUG Lands? I usually toss a hand with acceleration unless it has Loam, a Gamble, Punishing Grove or a fast combo (or sometimes I like acceleration plus a Port). What do you guys do?

Not a "guy" :tongue: but...

I want acceleration (Mox or Exploration) and a payoff spell, Gamble or Life from the Loam. I'll settle for acceleration and a quick Marit Lage (turn 3 to be attacking on turn 4). Without the payoff the hand better be ridiculous, like Punishing Fire, Grove, Red source and another source in the Death & Taxes matchup.

[cin]

Hi All,

Just want to share my Tournament result in a Major Legacy tournament in our local shop.

http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=13093&f=LE

I got 3rd from a 36-Man Legacy Tournament. (6 Rounds with Top 8)

35 LANDS
1 Bayou
1 Bojuka Bog
3 Dark Depths
1 Forest
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Glacial Chasm
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Karakas
3 Maze of Ith
1 Misty Rainforest
4 Rishadan Port
2 Taiga
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
4 Thespian's Stage
1 Tranquil Thicket
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Wasteland
1 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills

17 INSTANTS and SORC.
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Crop Rotation
4 Gamble
4 Life from the Loam
3 Punishing Fire

8 OTHER SPELLS
4 Exploration
4 Mox Diamond

SIDEBOARD
1 Chalice of the Void
2 Choke
1 Dark Depths
4 Krosan Grip
3 Sphere of Resistance
4 Thoughtseize


1st Round: JUNK (1-1) DRAW
1st Game: I was able to pull off the martilage combo earlier.
2nd Game: He aggroed the hell out of me
3rd Game: This game took longer than expected (he extirpated my Dark Depths in this game) which took longer execution of win condition that caused a time out.
BOARDING:
OUT: Bojuka Bog, Karakas, Thicket, GQ
IN: 3 Krosan Grip, 1 Dark Depths

2nd Round: JUNK (2-0) WIN
1st Game: Combo out finish with the help of Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale, and Ports that slowed his game phase.
2nd Game: Took longer than expected because I proceed with caution (thinking that black decks always have an sb of Surgical or Extirpate) Again, I won using Depths Stage Combo.
OUT: Bojuka Bog, Karakas, Thicket, GQ
IN: 3 Krosan Grip, 1 Dark Depths

3rd Round: Slivers (2-0) WIN
1st Game: Controlled the game by Loam, Wasteland, Ports, Maze and Tabernacle. with Depths Stage finish
2nd Game: Controlled again the game with the help of Rishadan Port, Wasteland, Loam, and again the Tabernacle. with Depths Stage finish.
OUT: Bojuka Bog, Karakas, Thicket, GQ
IN: 3 Krosan Grip, 1 Dark Depths

4th Round: BGX (2-1) WIN
1st Game: Depths Stage Combo
2nd Game: Goyf with other creatures killed me.
3rd Game: Depths Stage Combo (I Crop Rotationed my land for a Dark Depths in response to his fetch because I know he's going to extirpate my Depths on my GY which he actually did.) then during his end of turn, I activated my Depths Stage combo finish.
OUT: Bojuka Bog, Karakas, Thicket, GQ
IN: 3 Krosan Grip, 1 Dark Depths

5th Round: UB Omnitell (2-1) - WIN
1st Game: I won by the use of Rishadan Ports and a combo finish again.
2nd Game: He won by having a fast combo finish.
3rd Game: I won by controlling his colored lands by the use of my 4 Rishadan Ports (2 T.Stage) Then combo him out when the time was right.
OUT: 3 Maze of Ith, 3 Punishing Fire, 3 Abrupt Decay, Glacial Chasm, Wasteland, GQ, Tabernacle, Bojuka Bog
IN: 3 Krosan Grip, 1 Dark Depths, 3 Sphere of Resistance, 1 Chalice of the Void, 2 Choke, 4 Thoughtseize

6th Round: Aggro Loam (0:2) - LOSE
I intended to let my teammate win the match. (since were on the top 8 both)

Ended the SWISS with a (4-1-1) Standing

AFTER SWISS
TOP 8
Eldrazi Aggro (2-0) - WIN
1st Game: Loam Wasteland took the control on the game, which lead to my Depths Stage Combo Finish.
2nd Game: Started the game with a Leyline of the Void from my opponent, But this did not matter since I have the combo lands on my hand, I did some safe play before executing the combo.
Boarding:
OUT: Bojuka Bog, Karakas, Thicket
IN: 2 Krosan Grip, Dark Depths

TOP 4
Dark Maverick (1-2) - LOSE
1st Game: Depths Stage Combo again
2nd Game: Lost due to safeplay, I didn't ran the combo asap that cause my depths to be copied by his own Stage after he Crop Rotationed his land on my end of turn.
3rd Game: I was overwhelmed with DRS, Confidant and a KOTR which lead to my Loss.
OUT: Thicket, GQ, Karakas, Urborg
IN: Chalice of the Void, Dark Depths, 2 Krosan Grip

[lichking61601]

Hi All,

Just want to share my Tournament result in a Major Legacy tournament in our local shop.

http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=13093&f=LE

I got 3rd from a 36-Man Legacy Tournament. (6 Rounds with Top 8)

35 LANDS
1 Bayou
1 Bojuka Bog
3 Dark Depths
1 Forest
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Glacial Chasm
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Karakas
3 Maze of Ith
1 Misty Rainforest
4 Rishadan Port
2 Taiga
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
4 Thespian's Stage
1 Tranquil Thicket
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Wasteland
1 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills

17 INSTANTS and SORC.
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Crop Rotation
4 Gamble
4 Life from the Loam
3 Punishing Fire

8 OTHER SPELLS
4 Exploration
4 Mox Diamond

SIDEBOARD
1 Chalice of the Void
2 Choke
1 Dark Depths
4 Krosan Grip
3 Sphere of Resistance
4 Thoughtseize


1st Round: JUNK (1-1) DRAW
1st Game: I was able to pull off the martilage combo earlier.
2nd Game: He aggroed the hell out of me
3rd Game: This game took longer than expected (he extirpated my Dark Depths in this game) which took longer execution of win condition that caused a time out.
BOARDING:
OUT: Bojuka Bog, Karakas, Thicket, GQ
IN: 3 Krosan Grip, 1 Dark Depths

2nd Round: JUNK (2-0) WIN
1st Game: Combo out finish with the help of Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale, and Ports that slowed his game phase.
2nd Game: Took longer than expected because I proceed with caution (thinking that black decks always have an sb of Surgical or Extirpate) Again, I won using Depths Stage Combo.
OUT: Bojuka Bog, Karakas, Thicket, GQ
IN: 3 Krosan Grip, 1 Dark Depths

3rd Round: Slivers (2-0) WIN
1st Game: Controlled the game by Loam, Wasteland, Ports, Maze and Tabernacle. with Depths Stage finish
2nd Game: Controlled again the game with the help of Rishadan Port, Wasteland, Loam, and again the Tabernacle. with Depths Stage finish.
OUT: Bojuka Bog, Karakas, Thicket, GQ
IN: 3 Krosan Grip, 1 Dark Depths

4th Round: BGX (2-1) WIN
1st Game: Depths Stage Combo
2nd Game: Goyf with other creatures killed me.
3rd Game: Depths Stage Combo (I Crop Rotationed my land for a Dark Depths in response to his fetch because I know he's going to extirpate my Depths on my GY which he actually did.) then during his end of turn, I activated my Depths Stage combo finish.
OUT: Bojuka Bog, Karakas, Thicket, GQ
IN: 3 Krosan Grip, 1 Dark Depths

5th Round: UB Omnitell (2-1) - WIN
1st Game: I won by the use of Rishadan Ports and a combo finish again.
2nd Game: He won by having a fast combo finish.
3rd Game: I won by controlling his colored lands by the use of my 4 Rishadan Ports (2 T.Stage) Then combo him out when the time was right.
OUT: 3 Maze of Ith, 3 Punishing Fire, 3 Abrupt Decay, Glacial Chasm, Wasteland, GQ, Tabernacle, Bojuka Bog
IN: 3 Krosan Grip, 1 Dark Depths, 3 Sphere of Resistance, 1 Chalice of the Void, 2 Choke, 4 Thoughtseize

6th Round: (0:2) - LOSE
I intended to let my teammate win the match. (since were on the top 8 both)

Ended the SWISS with a (4-1-1) Standing

AFTER SWISS
TOP 8
Eldrazi Aggro
1st Game: Loam Wasteland took the control on the game, which lead to my Depths Stage Combo Finish.
2nd Game: Started the game with a Leyline of the Void from my opponent, But this did not matter since I have the combo lands on my hand, I did some safe play before executing the combo.
Boarding:
OUT: Bojuka Bog, Karakas, Thicket
IN: 2 Krosan Grip, Dark Depths

TOP 4
Dark Maverick
1st Game: Depths Stage Combo again
2nd Game: Lost due to safeplay, I didn't ran the combo asap that cause my depths to be copied by his own Stage after he Crop Rotationed his land on my end of turn.
3rd Game: I was overwhelmed with DRS, Confidant and a KOTR which lead to my Loss.
OUT: Thicket, GQ, Karakas, Urborg
IN: Chalice of the Void, Dark Depths, 2 Krosan Grip

brod, first of all congrats. im joining our local tourney soon [emoji1306]. i thought you lost to ANT. is splashing black for abrupt decays worth it?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Alexeezay]

Check out this interesting Lands article by Magnus Lantto: http://www.mtgmintcard.com/articles/writers/magnus-lantto/playing-lands-at-prague

I like how he explicitly talks about sideboarding and why he chose this configuration. Seems legit!
Still, I would run more than the 1 Tracker :tongue:

[cin]

[QUOTE=lichking61601;962559]brod, first of all congrats. im joining our local tourney soon [emoji1306]. i thought you lost to ANT. is splashing black for abrupt decays worth it?

Hi,

Yes it's really worth it. Having an uncounterable spot removal can really mean a lot specially the most of Legacy decks are Blue.

NOTE: It kills Blood Moon, Counterbalance, etc.

When'll you be joining? =) You're from Philippines too? :laugh:

[lichking61601]

[QUOTE=lichking61601;962559]brod, first of all congrats. im joining our local tourney soon [emoji1306]. i thought you lost to ANT. is splashing black for abrupt decays worth it?

Hi,

Yes it's really worth it. Having an uncounterable spot removal can really mean a lot specially the most of Legacy decks are Blue.

NOTE: It kills Blood Moon, Counterbalance, etc.

When'll you be joining? =) You're from Philippines too? :laugh:

oo pre :) im just 4 cards away from completing my deck. anyway, im still contemplating if im gonna take that route splashing black. thanks for the input and congrats again.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[.Ix]

Congrats, cin! Seems like Lands is doing really well in Manila. I would LOVE to join your tourneys, but I'm in Cebu. :frown:

Probably playing with spheres maindeck tomorrow in my local weekly. I really like Lands, but I just can't play it stock here.

[jarvisyu]

Not a "guy" :tongue: but...

I want acceleration (Mox or Exploration) and a payoff spell, Gamble or Life from the Loam. I'll settle for acceleration and a quick Marit Lage (turn 3 to be attacking on turn 4). Without the payoff the hand better be ridiculous, like Punishing Fire, Grove, Red source and another source in the Death & Taxes matchup.

Agreed. Really you just want to make sure your hand does _something_, and not do it too slowly.

[Chatto]

Agreed. Really you just want to make sure your hand does _something_, and not do it too slowly.

To me, it is this decision (which hand to keep) that makes this deck so interesting. Maybe it is the same with other decks, but I sometimes find it hard to make the right choice, being a unique hybrid of combo and prison.

[chaosjace]

Went to a small $5 event.
Round 1 vs RUG delver: won 2-0
Won both games with quick Marit Lages, nothing too interesting

Round 2 vs my buddy on reanimator again: lost 1-2
Game 3 went long and he beat me with some interesting side tech.

Round 3 vs sylvan plug: won 2-0
He drops library and trinisphere but I have two wastelands and loam and exploration and the best top decks possible, Marit Lage pretty quick in both games.

I dropped after that because I had to be somewhere but it's good to get experience.

I am starting to question chalice in my side as i never bring it in against anything and have it be relevant.

[Crimhead]

Check out this interesting Lands article by Magnus Lantto: http://www.mtgmintcard.com/articles/writers/magnus-lantto/playing-lands-at-prague
That was a good article, thanks for the link!

I found most interesting the ideas of running Tracker main and Warping Wail in the sideboard. Has anyone else tried these?

Also his sode-boarding recommendations are light on the K-Grips. I bring four in against almost everything unless I'm fairly certain they aren't packing hate cards in the form of artifacts or enchantments. Am I being overly cautious?


To me, it is this decision (which hand to keep) that makes this deck so interesting. Maybe it is the same with other decks, but I sometimes find it hard to make the right choice, being a unique hybrid of combo and prison.
Indeed! I've been playing this deck off and on for a couple years. My biggest problems are identifying and shaking the bad habits I've developed over years of playing RUG Lands as my primary deck. I keep slower hand with RUG all the time, and I'm having to learn I can't do this when I'm on R/G.


Agreed. Really you just want to make sure your hand does _something_, and not do it too slowly.Thanks for chiming in Jarvis! I'm a big fan and love watching your games. :smile:



I am starting to question chalice in my side as i never bring it in against anything and have it be relevant.If you are not seeing Burn, Storm, Miracles, Elves, Painter, or Reanimator at your LGS, I suppose there's not much sense in keeping it in just for Delver decks and S&T. That's quite the call, but I suppose it could be correct if you know your meta very thoroughly.

[barcode]

That was a good article, thanks for the link!

I found most interesting the ideas of running Tracker main and Warping Wail in the sideboard. Has anyone else tried these?

Also his sode-boarding recommendations are light on the K-Grips. I bring four in against almost everything unless I'm fairly certain they aren't packing hate cards in the form of artifacts or enchantments. Am I being overly cautious?

Shardless BUG doesn't play permanent-based graveyard hate beyond Nihil Spellbomb and Deathrite Shaman. Four grips is overkill because they daren't playing 4 Spellbombs. They have at most 2 Spellbomb and 1 Pithing Needle. You can survive with 3 grips if you know they have 2 Spellbomb. You can survive with 2 grip if it's one Spellbomb and one Needle. You don't care about their Shardless Agents because they die to Punishing Fire. You also don't really care about Null Rod.

[Sengir]

Anyone considering a SB along the lines of?

4xThorn
2xRevoker
3xTracker
1xBoseiju
1xKarakas
4xGrip

[jhport12]

Why would you ever play Thorn over Sphere of Resistance? It almost always hurts our opponent more than us. Yes, occasionally we bring in Trackers against a creatureless deck, but that is very rare and we are giving up too much disruptive power against a Miracles player's Snapcasters, Mentors, etc.

Revoker can't name lands and it is easier to kill than Pithing Needle. I know it can attack, but I don't think that is a good enough reason to play it.

[Deadinthestreet]

Newbie question here...

If I'm running two boils and a boseiju in the side, should I bring those in against EVERY blue matchup or just certain ones? Miracles is a give. But BUG and delver decks it's hard to tell.

Thanks!

[barcode]

Newbie question here...

If I'm running two boils and a boseiju in the side, should I bring those in against EVERY blue matchup or just certain ones? Miracles is a give. But BUG and delver decks it's hard to tell.

Thanks!

BUG decks aren't a problem. You can wreck them with Punishing Fire and Waselands.

Boil is just for Miracles or the unlikely chance you get paired against and live long enough to cast it against High Tide.

[Goose]

What are everyone's thoughts on running a 61 card man deck? I'm playing in a local tournament real soon and it'll be my second one since putting the deck together. Last time I played against rugs lands, death and taxes, 4c loam, the mirror, and my round 5 bug delver dropped when the round started. Not including round 5 I went a grand 1-2-1. Losing to d&t and the mirror, beating 4c loam, and drawing with rug lands. Maybe I should have mulliganed better. Previously I was on 4c loam myself and was expecting to be a lone lands player. Ended up very surprised to know I was 1 of and got to play against the mirror. Based on those decks I'm thinking about running a single ghost quarter in the main as card number 61. Not expecting much miracles, decent miracle players anyway, and I've never played the matchup either so if it happens I already know I'm a dog so I'm not running boil/Boseiju but instead running with chokes. Also does anybody have any thoughts on Library in the board or would another Tracker be better? Currently my board looks as follows. Mostly expecting infect, d&t, delver, various midrange, and some but not a large portion of combo.
1 Chalice of the Void
2 Choke
1 Karakas
4 Krosan Grip
4 Sphere of Resistance
1 Sylvan Library
2 Tireless Tracker

[CovenantElite30]

What are everyone's thoughts on running a 61 card man deck? I'm playing in a local tournament real soon and it'll be my second one since putting the deck together. Last time I played against rugs lands, death and taxes, 4c loam, the mirror, and my round 5 bug delver dropped when the round started. Not including round 5 I went a grand 1-2-1. Losing to d&t and the mirror, beating 4c loam, and drawing with rug lands. Maybe I should have mulliganed better. Previously I was on 4c loam myself and was expecting to be a lone lands player. Ended up very surprised to know I was 1 of and got to play against the mirror. Based on those decks I'm thinking about running a single ghost quarter in the main as card number 61. Not expecting much miracles, decent miracle players anyway, and I've never played the matchup either so if it happens I already know I'm a dog so I'm not running boil/Boseiju but instead running with chokes. Also does anybody have any thoughts on Library in the board or would another Tracker be better? Currently my board looks as follows. Mostly expecting infect, d&t, delver, various midrange, and some but not a large portion of combo.
1 Chalice of the Void
2 Choke
1 Karakas
4 Krosan Grip
4 Sphere of Resistance
1 Sylvan Library
2 Tireless Tracker
If your expecting that kind of meta then playing 4 trackers out of the side is very reasonable.

[Crimhead]

What are everyone's thoughts on running a 61 card man deck?Between this and RUG Lands, I probably run 61 cards in something like 20-40% of my tournaments. I've never done that with any other deck.

[Lord_Mcdonalds]

61 cards is fine, it's not 60, but the difference between the two is small.

[Sibelius]

What are everyone's thoughts on running a 61 card man deck? I'm playing in a local tournament real soon and it'll be my second one since putting the deck together. Last time I played against rugs lands, death and taxes, 4c loam, the mirror, and my round 5 bug delver dropped when the round started. Not including round 5 I went a grand 1-2-1. Losing to d&t and the mirror, beating 4c loam, and drawing with rug lands. Maybe I should have mulliganed better. Previously I was on 4c loam myself and was expecting to be a lone lands player. Ended up very surprised to know I was 1 of and got to play against the mirror. Based on those decks I'm thinking about running a single ghost quarter in the main as card number 61. Not expecting much miracles, decent miracle players anyway, and I've never played the matchup either so if it happens I already know I'm a dog so I'm not running boil/Boseiju but instead running with chokes. Also does anybody have any thoughts on Library in the board or would another Tracker be better? Currently my board looks as follows. Mostly expecting infect, d&t, delver, various midrange, and some but not a large portion of combo.
1 Chalice of the Void
2 Choke
1 Karakas
4 Krosan Grip
4 Sphere of Resistance
1 Sylvan Library
2 Tireless Tracker

In this meta I would run a Molten Vortex in the board. It is good vs Infect, DNT and various niche corners (Meddling Mage.....) If the midrange is Blue then the Chokes are ok but could be Trackers or a Bojuka Bog. With tight play you should be favoured against the Meta you mention so try not to warp your deck too much, often it is best to learn the deck rather than rely on silver bullets, certainly for longevity and if you go to a larger tournament with a different meta.
As to 61 cards I don't see it as much of an issue provided the 61st card is a land. You have 8 tutors for it after all! Ghostquarter is nice as a 5th wasteland and can be a plan vs Miracles provided you know what you are doing. (lock them off white)

Sib

[Sengir]

Why would you ever play Thorn over Sphere of Resistance? It almost always hurts our opponent more than us. Yes, occasionally we bring in Trackers against a creatureless deck, but that is very rare and we are giving up too much disruptive power against a Miracles player's Snapcasters, Mentors, etc.

Revoker can't name lands and it is easier to kill than Pithing Needle. I know it can attack, but I don't think that is a good enough reason to play it.

How often do you bring in sphere for creature decks that tend to run vial? Elves which is already a good matchup? Or Storm, Sneak, Omni, Miracles? Thorn allows you to play tighter hands and drop a clock into play for pressure. Miracles may be able to cast a creature but the spells will still be taxed which is the important part.

So Revoker can't name lands, oh well we have wasteland. He can name LED, Sneak, Top, Etc. If he draws out a swords that's one less that hits Marit.

It's a different approach, but lands is a different deck to begin with.

[Deadinthestreet]

I took Jarvis Yu's build to a local last night with like 8 or 10 of us and went 3-0 and then split with my friend at the end. My rounds were:

R1: Storm 2-0
Game one I didn't even know what he was on at first because he didn't really play anything, I got ports out early and kept his mama down long enough to combo. Game two I had sphere out and he couldn't get past it as I naturally drew into the combo.

R2: Infect 2-0
Game one he thinks he has it early and attacks with elf, double invigorates and I let it happen and then tries to cast become immense, I respond with crop into chasm, take upkeep damage for a few turns before getting more land out, including stage and soft locking him before I draw into combo. Game two I can't remember but it was fast and I won.

R3: elves 2-0
My friend playing elves is super new to legacy, both games were a slaughterfest involving tabernacle and wasteland, game two I had so sphere and tabernacle and there was nothing she could do.

Round four is my homie on storm and we draw to get 40 store credit each. This was my second tournament playing this deck, the other being last Friday where I got two draws and a bye which was awful. I played a lot tighter this week and the deck felt amazing. Even the storm matchup doesn't seem awful after jamming practice games with my friend at the end. I always forget storm doesn't run counterspells for some stupid reason, so chalice and sphere just resolve.

[Dice_Box]

New art on Crop Rotation. I hope they print it as a foil later on. (It's in a Dual Deck now.)

http://media.wizards.com/2016/images/daily/LSpvlirClo.png

[Deadinthestreet]

This is not a deck for new frames if possible

[Dice_Box]

Frames don't bother me any longer. I pick up what I like art wise, can get Foil wise or can afford. But to each their own.

[Deadinthestreet]

I know I was kidding. I like the new artwork itself a lot

[Ciubulu]

without its flavour text crop rotation is not the same ^_^

[Sibelius]

New art on Crop Rotation. I hope they print it as a foil later on. (It's in a Dual Deck now.)

http://media.wizards.com/2016/images/daily/LSpvlirClo.png

It is a terrible pun/art direction mash up.
Lol look they ROTATED THE CROPS! HAHAHAHAHA
:mad:
Crop Rotation is changing which crops you grow each year so as to preserve the health of the soil.
Far too many cards these days are really bad jokes.

Sib

[djxstream]

Ive been having problems lately with Aggro Loam.

Between chalice, knight, loam, deathrite shaman, scooze, leyline of the void. i'm having a hard time beating them. I feel the long game is not where I want to be, but chalice on 1 really hurts any short games plans...Any insight?

My list is fairly stock, I run bog & ghost quarter main.

Board is 4 Spheres, 4 Grips, 2 Trackers, 2 Warping Wails, 1 Chalice, 1 Karakas, 1 Boseju


thanks

[Alexeezay]

djxstream you basically look for a hand that has acceleration (manabond, exploration, mox) and/or Tracker/Loam/Bog. The player with the superior start USUALLY wins. Timing with Bojuka Bog is very important to kill Knights with Punishing Fire.
Denying their mana and having some Mazes can be nice if it works out. Be aware that they can disrupt your combo VERY easy with Knight (tutors Karakas and Wasteland). The games where they don't land a (early) Knight you are almost always winning. Don't be shy to waste their white mana. Knight is a tough one.
Also, FOREST is very important. Keep up your Thespian's Stages or if you already see a Forest ( maybe on their side) and they don't have Wasteland open, copy the Forest right away! Can be useful later on. Of course, you sometimes have to copy Grove for Fire.
Since my board has 4 Trackers and facing Chalice, I actually board out Crop Rotations (and Chasm, Boseiju, Manabond on the draw, 1 PFire. I could see arguments for Gamble instead but it's just so versatile). I usually bring in Bog, 3 Grips, 4 Trackers. The last card can really take over the game. In my experience they board out Liliana/PFire and sometimes even Decay.
More often than not, the matchup is not really about mana denial, but rather about the Combo threat vs Knight.
It's often better to hit your land drops and not waste them, especially when they started with Mox. That said, it's good to keep them off colors in the first turns.
When you don't have Grip and face Leyline/Chalice, your best bet is to make your land drops and use Tracker and the DD Combo to threaten the win. I've had games with 2 Trackers beating him down which is funny, since usually 4c Loam is the creature deck. But 2/2s and 5/5 Knights don't cut it against 8/7 Trackers or something like that.
Of note 1: the new 4cLoam lists board in 3 Swords to Plowshares against you, but it's useless with Chalice on 1. So I wouldn't K'Grip the Chalice most of the time.
Of note 2: they often try to play Chalice on 2 to lock you out completely, which sucks. But again, Trackers and Krosan Grip & they lock their own spells, too.

[Lord_Mcdonalds]

It's a rough MU, you want to try and combo them out quickly (as they don't have many ways to beat MARIT LAIGE). Avoid a grindy game if at all possible.

I wouldn't be too worried about chalice @ 2 honestly, it turns off their loams/Bobs as well and they need to get to 4 mana. At the very least, in most scenarios they're playing chalice @ 2, I imagine you're probably losing to begin with.

[djxstream]

thanks for the notes...one more my recent games i lost because the player went for chalice @ 2. and chalice @ 1 + knight was already on the field. It was the difference maker and the knight had no sac targets and just attacked for like 4 turns to win as I drew PF, PF, Loam, Loam...with a loam in hand mind you. but yeah as long as its not just me and it is a rough matchup. thanks again

[Crimhead]

Running this list:

34 LANDS
1 Bojuka Bog
3 Dark Depths
1 Forest
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Glacial Chasm
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
3 Maze of Ith
1 Riftstone Portal
4 Rishadan Port
2 Taiga
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
4 Thespian's Stage
1 Tranquil Thicket
1 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
1 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills

16 INSTANTS and SORCERIES
4 Crop Rotation
4 Gamble
4 Life from the Loam
3 Punishing Fire
1 Worm Harvest

11 ARTIFACTS and ENCHANTMENTS
4 Exploration
1 Manabond
2 Molten Vortex
4 Mox Diamond

SIDEBOARD
2 Boil
1 Boseiju Who Shelters All
1 Chalice of the Void
1 Karakas
4 Krosan Grip
1 Pithing Needle
3 Sphere of Resistance
2 Tireless Tracker

Considering:
-1 Worm Harvest
+1 Tireless Tracker

I haven't played with the Trackers yet (just putting them in); and while I've been testing with Worm Harvest it hasn't seen much action. Bottom line, I'm not experienced with either card and would like opinions.

My suspicion is that even if Worm Harvest is a little better game one, Tracker is probably a lot better post board. But that's just my guess at this point.

[barcode]

Running this list:

34 LANDS
1 Bojuka Bog
3 Dark Depths
1 Forest
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Glacial Chasm
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
3 Maze of Ith
1 Riftstone Portal
4 Rishadan Port
2 Taiga
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
4 Thespian's Stage
1 Tranquil Thicket
1 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
1 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills

16 INSTANTS and SORCERIES
4 Crop Rotation
4 Gamble
4 Life from the Loam
3 Punishing Fire
1 Worm Harvest

11 ARTIFACTS and ENCHANTMENTS
4 Exploration
1 Manabond
2 Molten Vortex
4 Mox Diamond

SIDEBOARD
2 Boil
1 Boseiju Who Shelters All
1 Chalice of the Void
1 Karakas
4 Krosan Grip
1 Pithing Needle
3 Sphere of Resistance
2 Tireless Tracker

Considering:
-1 Worm Harvest
+1 Tireless Tracker

I haven't played with the Trackers yet (just putting them in); and while I've been testing with Worm Harvest it hasn't seen much action. Bottom line, I'm not experienced with either card and would like opinions.

Tireless Tracker is an absurd Magic card, an easy 4-of in the sideboard.

I'm not sold on Worm Harvest yet. There have been games where it's taken over and there have been games where it would have won, had I drawn it, there are games where it's rotted in my hand. I need more games with it.

I also wouldn't play Molten Vortex (sub for Karakas to free a spot in the board), but there you go. I also like the third Taiga for more green and red sources.

[Crimhead]

I've been really liking the Vorticies - at worst they eat Decay or Wear//Tear or Force, thus protecting my accelerants. Well at worse I dredge them, I guess, but I really like them if I actually draw them.

I'm anxious to see if these little Trackers are everything everybody says they are...

[Dice_Box]

Trackers are good.

I have cut Harvest. Another card that is killed by DRS or other grave interaction never helped me much. Often I would get to use it only one time. It did not help enough to keep it in.

[Drake0525]

Hi all,

I recently made the jump and purchased a Tabernacle, so my deck will likely be assembled by next week. So I've solidified my decklist and started working on sideboard plans. There was quite a bit of info on that in various primers, but a lot of the information is dated - for instance, I couldn't find anything on Eldrazi. I was hoping you folks would be willing to take a look at what I have so far, and make sure my rationale for each match-up is correct.

First, here's the list:
4x Exploration
1x Manabond
4x Mox Diamond
4x Crop Rotation
4x Gamble
4x Life from the Loam
4x Punishing Fire

4x Dark Depths
4x Thespian Stage
4x Grove of the Burnwillows
4x Wasteland
4x Rishodan Port
3x Maze of Ith
1x Windswept Heath
1x Verdant Catecombs
1x Wooded Foothills
2x Tiaga
1x Forest

1x Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1x Glacial Chasm
1x Riftstone Portal
1x Ghost Quarter
1x Karakas
1x Tranquil Thicket

Sideboard:
4x Krosan Grip
2x Sphere of Resistance
2x Trinisphere
2x Boil
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Boseiju, Who Shelters All
3x Tireless Tracker

Boseiju, Who Shelters All was moved to board due to it being arguably better with Sphere of Resistance in play. Is Ghost Quarter a good inclusion in the main, or should that really be a 2nd Tranquil Thicket? I know those Trinisphere want to be Sphere of Resistance, I'll work on that.

Miracles:
Out: 1x Karakas, 1x Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale, 3x Maze of Ith, 1x Glacial Chasm, 1x Wasteland, 1x Manabond, 4 Crop Rotation, 1x Punishing Fire
In: 4x Krosan Grip, 2x Sphere of Resistance, 2x Trinisphere, 3x Tireless Tracker, 2x Boil

Essentially, this would jetison most of the board control gameplan and double down on resource denial, with Tireless Tracker for extra board pressure. I worry about siding out Wasteland, but it’s not a card that does a lot against Miracles, for the most part, they’ll be on basics.

Sneak-Show:
Out: 4x Punishing FIre, 3x Maze of Ith, 1x Glacial Chasm, 1x Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale, 1x Wasteland
In: 4x Krosan Grip, 2x Trinisphere, 2x Sphere of Resistance, 2x Boil

This is another match-up where Wasteland, arguably, doesn’t do a lot. They run a lot of basics, and most SnS players worth their salt will have Blood Moon in the sideboard if not the maindeck. Is this a match-up where we want Tireless Tracker?

Eldrazi:
Out: 1x Ghost Quarter, 1x Manabond, 1x Punishing Fire, 1x Karakas
In: 4x Krosan Grip

I was told this is a rather favorable match-up for Lands, so overboarding is not a good idea. They will bring in Leyline of the Void, so we have to bring in Krosan Grip.

Death and Taxes:
Out: 1x Tranquil Thicket, 1x Manabond, 1x Rifstone Portal, 1x Ghost Quarter
In: 4x Krosan Grip

This was a hard one to figure out. The Sphere effects will be only semi-effective against an Aether Vial deck. Do I want Tirelss Tracker?

Any feedback or insight would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

[Crimhead]

Welcome to Lands!

Your list is pretty stock. Most decks run three Depths. The fourth is a meta-call if you are expecting a fast meta with lots of combo (although I'm not sure your board reflects that)

Karakas/Bog/GQ - usually run two of these main and the other on the side. I like Bog main myself.

Turn one of your 3Spheres into a Chalice rather than a SoR.

Vs Miracles, you forgot to board in Boseiju!

Vs Eldrazi Trackers might be good. A back-up engine is more often than not valuable post board (unless you have to race). I'd take out more PFs and leave the GQ.

Vs D&T take out some DDs becuase you're playing a long game and early tokens tend to die hard and set you back. Take out a Mox because they're soft to Revokers. Keep Punishing Fire and Karakas, as well as Riftstone because it's good with Trackers (which you want to bring in).

Best of luck, and have a blast!

[barcode]

Welcome to Lands!

Your list is pretty stock. Most decks run three Depths. The fourth is a meta-call if you are expecting a fast meta with lots of combo (although I'm not sure your board reflects that)

Karakas/Bog/GQ - usually run two of these main and the other on the side. I like Bog main myself.

Turn one of your 3Spheres into a Chalice rather than a SoR.

Vs Miracles, you forgot to board in Boseiju!

Vs Eldrazi Trackers might be good. A back-up engine is more often than not valuable post board (unless you have to race). I'd take out more PFs and leave the GQ.

Vs D&T take out some DDs becuase you're playing a long game and early tokens tend to die hard and set you back. Take out a Mox because they're soft to Revokers. Keep Punishing Fire and Karakas, as well as Riftstone because it's good with Trackers (which you want to bring in).

Best of luck, and have a blast!

Tireless Tracker seems like an all-star against Eldrazi. You can save your K-Grips for their Ratchet Bombs and let Tracker hold the ground until you can assemble a 20/20.

[Drake0525]

Welcome to Lands!

Your list is pretty stock. Most decks run three Depths. The fourth is a meta-call if you are expecting a fast meta with lots of combo (although I'm not sure your board reflects that)

Karakas/Bog/GQ - usually run two of these main and the other on the side. I like Bog main myself.

Turn one of your 3Spheres into a Chalice rather than a SoR.

Vs Miracles, you forgot to board in Boseiju!

Vs Eldrazi Trackers might be good. A back-up engine is more often than not valuable post board (unless you have to race). I'd take out more PFs and leave the GQ.

Vs D&T take out some DDs becuase you're playing a long game and early tokens tend to die hard and set you back. Take out a Mox because they're soft to Revokers. Keep Punishing Fire and Karakas, as well as Riftstone because it's good with Trackers (which you want to bring in).

Best of luck, and have a blast!Yes, I don't believe in reinventing the wheel before learning how the wheel works, innovation could be possible down the line. This is not really a combo meta. I'm starting to prepare for these match-ups because I expect to see them. The only archetype of prominence I didn't include was Shardless BUG. As far as combo, Sneakshow is a thing in my metagame, we've got at least 4 players with the Cunning Wish version built (that I am aware of). It is a lot of fair decks though, so I think Lands will be in a pretty decent position. The 4th DD I decided to keep in the main largely for the sake of consistency, and with my inexperience with the deck, I wanted to increase the chances of drawing into combo G1.

I'll tweak the SB to include Chalice, but I don't fully understand it yet. Is it good after the loam engine is online? Because I play-tested against a chalice deck, I was on the draw, he lands Chalice on 1, and I could do nothing. Chalice does disrupt combo. Do you guys ever bring Chalice in to keep Tireless Tracker from being StPed?

Thanks for advice! How many Dark Depths can I afford to side out VS Death and Taxes?

[Chatto]

Yes, I don't believe in reinventing the wheel before learning how the wheel works, innovation could be possible down the line. This is not really a combo meta. I'm starting to prepare for these match-ups because I expect to see them. The only archetype of prominence I didn't include was Shardless BUG. As far as combo, Sneakshow is a thing in my metagame, we've got at least 4 players with the Cunning Wish version built (that I am aware of). It is a lot of fair decks though, so I think Lands will be in a pretty decent position. The 4th DD I decided to keep in the main largely for the sake of consistency, and with my inexperience with the deck, I wanted to increase the chances of drawing into combo G1.

I'll tweak the SB to include Chalice, but I don't fully understand it yet. Is it good after the loam engine is online? Because I play-tested against a chalice deck, I was on the draw, he lands Chalice on 1, and I could do nothing.

Thanks for advice! How many Dark Depths can I afford to side out VS Death and Taxes?

First of all, welcome!

Chalice will harm your opponent more. Vs combo: you could drop it on zero as well, while attacking their mana. Don't go all-in on Chalice though: most decks have ways to remove it. It is there to slow them down, while you combo fast.

Vs D&T: I would side out on, but I hate to go to the Grinding Game against them, so combo fast would be my advice (yeah, the opposite of what Crimhead says). Either they can remove your Witch, or not. Be wary of GY-hate g2 & 3, so it could be you will have to combo while a RiP is out (thus losing combo-pieces), so keeping all four is a choice to consider.

[Drake0525]

First of all, welcome!

Chalice will harm your opponent more. Vs combo: you could drop it on zero as well, while attacking their mana. Don't go all-in on Chalice though: most decks have ways to remove it. It is there to slow them down, while you combo fast.

Vs D&T: I would side out on, but I hate to go to the Grinding Game against them, so combo fast would be my advice (yeah, the opposite of what Crimhead says). Either they can remove your Witch, or not. Be wary of GY-hate g2 & 3, so it could be you will have to combo while a RiP is out (thus losing combo-pieces), so keeping all four is a choice to consider.Thank you! They can Swords to Plowshares and RiP there way to victory, this is true, but if I keep all the Dark Depths in the deck, and bring in Tireless Tracker, that's going to put a lot of strain on their removal. So maybe doing something like this could work:
Out: 1x Tranquil Thicket, 1x Manabond, 1x Mox Diamond, 1x Ghost Quarter, 1x Life from the Loam, 2x Wasteland
In: 4x Krosan Grip, 3x Tireless Tracker

This configuration would give me multiple lines to play out should an early RiP land. Siding out that Loam might be risky, but I'm not sure what else I could side out for that 3rd Tracker.

[Chatto]

Thank you! They can Swords to Plowshares and RiP there way to victory, this is true, but if I keep all the Dark Depths in the deck, and bring in Tireless Tracker, that's going to put a lot of strain on their removal. So maybe doing something like this could work:
Out: 1x Tranquil Thicket, 1x Manabond, 1x Mox Diamond, 1x Ghost Quarter, 1x Life from the Loam, 2x Wasteland
In: 4x Krosan Grip, 3x Tireless Tracker

This configuration would give me multiple lines to play out should an early RiP land. Siding out that Loam might be risky, but I'm not sure what else I could side out for that 3rd Tracker.

Gamble or Crop Rotation.

People hold on to Gamble way too much, but that's just my opinion.

[Crimhead]

Tanked pretty hard at the monthly yesterday, but I'm going to report it anyway because I had some interesting games:

Round 1 -2-0
G1 - Sitting down vs an established Shardless player, win the toss, and draw three mana lands, both combo lands, Manabond, and a Loam. He mulls twice and I drop my hand. He plays a fetch-land and passes, I make the witch, he thinks and then scoops. Then he tells me he had a Plow but gave up because of Loam. Now I realise he's switched back to Miracles so I board in 14 cards instead of just a couple! Apparently I should have noticed his fetch-land was a Tarn, but it was very hot n the back room (yugio in the front, but the store's gotta make money), and I was so sure he was on Shardless I was thinking about G2 from the moment Manabond resolved.
G2 - I open with something like Taiga, Fetch, Exploration, Vortex, Loam, Tracker, Grip. I figure I can draw the counters with Exploration and/orVortex ans get that sexy Tracker on the board. He actually Forced Exploration and Vortex and counter-spelled the Tracker. I drew into land, another Grip, another Vortex, Chalice, and Sphere. The Chalice and Sphere stuck and I Gripped both Counter-Top pieces. It was a very long game where I almost lost to a Snappy and miles most of my graveyard (porting some five lands a turn). Maybe I shouldn't have cut down to a single DD? Got there in the end.

Round 2 (Miracles) 1-2
G1 - I kept a hand with Mox, two CRs, Stage, Forest, and a Maze, and chose not to scry Tabernacle away. Not happy to see the turn one Top! I tries to combo fast because I had little means to rebuild. I rotated a Maze into a DD but got Terminused. I rotated away another Maze, but when I rotated my Tabernacle (I drew a second Maze and third CR) he blind flipped Ponder and then p!aged a Mentor (yeah, just after I pissed away Tabernacle). That was a loss!
I won G2 but lost G3, can't recall the details

Round 3 (U/R Delver) 0-2
G1 - my board was developing nicely except only one Maze vs Delver & Swiftspear, and then another Swiftspear. I finally Dredged a PF (and had Groves), but I was on the red zone by the time I cleared the board and got burnt out (would have won the next turn).
G2 - I was set for an early-ish combo when he drops a Moon. I Gripped the Moon (with red mana from Maze) and activated Stage. He responded with double PoP! That was a loss.

Round 4 (Burn) 2-0/0-2
Both games I build a turn three token for the win, one of which I was at five life and he was sitting on Fireblast. My opponent had been down-paired and (very meekly) asked for a concession. I don't like doing this because I feel its unfair to the player who earns their wins and losses a spot to this guy. However, the kid was not yet a teenager, so I was very happy to give him a boost. He won round 5 and made the cut!

Round 5 (mono:G: prison) 1-2
I though High Tide and Belcher were a beating!
G1 - Main-deck Tsabo's Web through me off, but I'm able to Waste my own tapped Stage so I can replay it and build my token. By then I'm under a Root Maze, Orb of Dreams, and Winter Orb; when he taps Marit Lage with Icy Manipulator (after I just busted her out of an ice-prison)! PF win is gonna be hard installing new land a turn, so I scoop when he drops a big vanilla beater.
G2 - natural turn two combo and thankfully no turn one Root Maze.
G3 - Pretty much I was drowned under prison locks with a Vengance. I finally resolved a Tracker, but he came in tapped and never untapped (Mediations). I did manage to crack a Clue before I lost (cue Sherlock Hemlock theme).
G4 - Played another just for fun. Mox was a big help vs Winter Orb! I managed to get an untapped Stage into play early and kept it that way (and put a Needle on Icy Manipulator). I made the token, but he dropped a Bridge. I was able to grip the Bridge and get there.

Easily my worst showing all year, but it was nice to get out and play (mostly been spending my weekends in the countryside this summer).

[filln]

Thank you! They can Swords to Plowshares and RiP there way to victory, this is true, but if I keep all the Dark Depths in the deck, and bring in Tireless Tracker, that's going to put a lot of strain on their removal. So maybe doing something like this could work:
Out: 1x Tranquil Thicket, 1x Manabond, 1x Mox Diamond, 1x Ghost Quarter, 1x Life from the Loam, 2x Wasteland
In: 4x Krosan Grip, 3x Tireless Tracker

This configuration would give me multiple lines to play out should an early RiP land. Siding out that Loam might be risky, but I'm not sure what else I could side out for that 3rd Tracker.

Re: D&T sideboard plan, what are people's thoughts on leaving in the full suite of Wasteland and GQ? I've typically kept them in to combat their Karakas and Wasteland since they're kind of a pain when trying to combo.

[Dominic Pain]

Re: D&T sideboard plan, what are people's thoughts on leaving in the full suite of Wasteland and GQ? I've typically kept them in to combat their Karakas and Wasteland since they're kind of a pain when trying to combo.
I always keep in all my wastelands against D&T, ports, opposing wastelands, karakas are all things you don't want them to be able to use against you, I'd sooner side out a gamble or A GQ

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[Drake0525]

I always keep in all my wastelands against D&T, ports, opposing wastelands, karakas are all things you don't want them to be able to use against you, I'd sooner side out a gamble or A GQ

Sent from my XT1064 using TapatalkWhy cut Gamble instead of Crop Rotation? Is finding Loam a lower priority post-board?

Should I try a configuration like this? Out: 1x Tranquil Thicket, 1x Manabond, 1x Mox Diamond, 1x Ghost Quarter, 1x Life from the Loam, 2x Gamble. In: 4x Krosan Grip, 3x Tireless Tracker

[Chatto]

Gamble is a gamble.

As I said before, people hold on to Gamble way too much. Let me elaborate om that: against a deck that you know will bring in GY-hate I find Gamble unreliable. Cutting one or two is fine by me, especially now TT is one of our best SB-cards.

[Crimhead]

Vs D&T: I would side out on, but I hate to go to the Grinding Game against them, so combo fast would be my advice (yeah, the opposite of what Crimhead says). Either they can remove your Witch, or not. Be wary of GY-hate g2 & 3, so it could be you will have to combo while a RiP is out (thus losing combo-pieces), so keeping all four is a choice to consider.This certainly makes sense.

I find D&T is so good at killing the token I almost always have to make it multiple times - I'd be very reluctant to even try when RIP is in play. I suppose it would be good to keep two in case they remove your token and then drop a RIP before you can get your Depths back. But comboing into RIP is something I wouldn't do unless I either very desperate or they have very low odds of answering the 20/20 (maybe they have zero or one card or you have a read on them).

[Dominic Pain]

Should I try a configuration like this? Out: 1x Tranquil Thicket, 1x Manabond, 1x Mox Diamond, 1x Ghost Quarter, 1x Life from the Loam, 2x Gamble. In: 4x Krosan Grip, 3x Tireless Tracker

That sounds like a fine board, remember mox diamond is slightly worse in this matchup due to phyrexian revoker, iirc it's the only card in our deck it can name, but I haven't played in awhile and can't remember if they're able to side them all out

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[Crimhead]

iirc it's the only card in our deck it can name, but I haven't played in awhile and can't remember if they're able to side them all out.
I run Molten Vortex, which is quite good against D&T and a likely target for Revoker.

[j2los]

Question: In a vacuum vs. stock ANT, what is the best thing to mull/gamble to? Chalice 0, Sphere or Crop Rotation->Bog? Does this change play or draw?

[barcode]

Question: In a vacuum vs. stock ANT, what is the best thing to mull/gamble to? Chalice 0, Sphere or Crop Rotation->Bog? Does this change play or draw?

These are the best options, in order:

Sphere
Chalice 0
Chalice 1

Crop Rotation into Bog is fine but it's hard to make it work.

If you're on the draw and can't make a Sphere or Chalice for 1, then Chalice for 0 is better than passing.

[Lord_Mcdonalds]

Crop also tends to get duress'd or cabal therapy'd

[Dice_Box]

So um, DnT just became a bitch to face. They can cut Loam and Fire while keeping up Swords.

[CptHaddock]

So um, DnT just became a bitch to face. They can cut Loam and Fire while keeping up Swords.

You guys may have to go back to playing some number of Barbarian Rings

[Whitefaces]

You guys may have to go back to playing some number of Barbarian Rings

That's not a bad idea! Gets around Mother of Runes too.

[Lord_Mcdonalds]

Molten Vortex is also an option although being able to sandbag barbarian rings sounds pretty sweet.

[Whitefaces]

Molten Vortex is also an option although being able to sandbag barbarian rings sounds pretty sweet.

They usually set Revoker on Vortex.

[Dice_Box]

I like Ring. You can Rotate for it. Though, once you hit that point your likely fucked. Tempo loss is amazing.

[Lord_Mcdonalds]

They usually set Revoker on Vortex.

I guess but the way I see it, if I'm a D&T player, I'm probably not going to name a card that isn't always run in the deck and is a 1-2 in the sideboard more often then not

At the very least, I'm naming Mox Diamond, then vortex.


I like Ring. You can Rotate for it. Though, once you hit that point your likely fucked. Tempo loss is amazing.

Not too big of a deal IMO, unless they have a RIP on board as well.

[barcode]

So um, DnT just became a bitch to face. They can cut Loam and Fire while keeping up Swords.

Time to bring back Volcanic Fallout. It has an upside of killing greedy Sneak & Show players, too. :cool: