[Primer] R/G Lands

[meso94]

Hi there, i just finish to build this deck real and i'm happy to take part of this topic and community playing Lands...I read comments from page 30 til now and i have an idea that want to explain to all of you...this is my decklist playing right now:

4 Grove of the Burnwillows
4 Thespian's Stage
4 Rishadan Port
4 Wasteland
3 Maze of Ith
3 Dark Depths
2 Tranquil Thicket
2 Taiga
1 Karakas
1 Windswept Heath
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Forest
4 Crop Rotation
4 Punishing Fire
4 Gamble
4 Life from the Loam
4 Mox Diamond
4 Exploration
2 Manabond
1 Ghost Quarter
SB: 1 Dark Depths
SB: 4 Sphere of Resistance
SB: 4 Krosan Grip
SB: 2 Trinisphere
SB: 1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
SB: 1 Bojuka Bog
SB: 1 Choke
SB: 1 Molten Vortex

I run the monocopy of Ghost Quarter maindeck instead of the fourth fetchland, I'm in the idea to not having more fetchland then pick for them (2 taiga and the basic forest) and i substitute the misty rainforest for the GQ maindeck, it has lot of targets and i think that could be a great spot in the deck...what do you think about it? It is wrong to cut the fourth fetchland for it?

I hope to give my help to this community and give soon some reports of tournaments

[Layalouhamesh]

I run the monocopy of Ghost Quarter maindeck instead of the fourth fetchland, I'm in the idea to not having more fetchland then pick for them (2 taiga and the basic forest) and i substitute the misty rainforest for the GQ maindeck, it has lot of targets and i think that could be a great spot in the deck...what do you think about it? It is wrong to cut the fourth fetchland for it?

I hope to give my help to this community and give soon some reports of tournaments

Hi!

I'm pretty new to this deck too, but from what I read and tested, the fourth fetch land seems to be a dead card more often that it is useful.
The choice of GQ is quite widespread, but I think it depends on your meta. Bojuka Bog can be a really decent option maindeck too, and I have seen many lists packing a fourth depth to fasten the combo plan.
For my part, I chose to replace it with a Bayou to have access to Dark Confident post-side to help finding my own hate.

So to answer your question, I think it is a good choice, but choosing GQ over another utility card is a matter of meta to me.

[Dice_Box]

I will agree on all accounts. That slot is very useful to "Patch up" the issues your having locally. I have had in it at times Ghost Quarter, Riftstone Portal, Karakas, Bojuka Bog, 4th Depths, Tower of the Magistrate and currently a second Tabernacle.

It's also possible to play with the numbers of other cards and raise and lower until you get what you need in there. Lists running multiple "Flex" Lands in the main have done very well proving that there is room to play with.

[Chatto]

On a sidenote: GQ can also function as the fourth Fetch if needed. That's why to me it's a very strong card with a surprise element. Never changed it since the day I sleeved this deck. I do agree it's place can be debated, but I like GQ a lot.

[meso94]

That is true, I keep some "brown" hands without green sometimes when GQ is in opening hand because it is able to fetch for the basic forest and start recursion with loam...against lot of decks (I have in mind: Mud, bug, basic plains of miracles and more...) it's like a strip mine that can help us fighting basis, where wasteland can't arrive...it also give a plan against Omnitell in G1, by recurring GQ and Loam to hit all his Island (combined with Ports it can be devastating) that he plays in no more than 5/7 copies in main deck, it is really difficult...but sometimes could work well...

I'm working on a sideboard scheme on each MU...every help is appreciated if you want (or let me know if another one just exists)

[Crimhead]

Would there be any consideration into just splashing blue for academy ruins, engineered explosives and any other artifacts that might be worth running because of the splash in that sort of meta? Or does that just make the deck weaker? Seems like EE would solve a lot of problems that we may have with hatebears and other problematic permanents.The nice thing about 4x Gamble and 4x Crop Rotation is the speed they provide. These cards make it fairly easy to assemble Marit Lage by the third turn if the coast is clear. Often we will. Academy Ruins and Engineered Explosives are stellar when we are forced to play a slower, grindier style, but they have less value when we are playing quickly (and can even slow us down).

In my opinion, if we are going to plan for the slower game that EE and AR cater to, we should also be running the slower but less volatile tutors which blue enables (Intuition and Tolaria West). Incidentally, either of these can find us an EE. But at this point we are no longer playing RGCL, but a full on RUG build. RUG Lands is a fun and powerful, and in certain metas might be better choice (I go back and forth between the two). But trying to blend them is not as good. I've tried this from the other angle (running 2x Gamble and 3x Crop Rotation in a RUG build, with only 1x Intuition). I did okay like this, but I think straight R/G or straight RUG are both better than a hybrid.


Honestly, the biggest reason to run Black would be Bob. If you have the splash going, run him.
I've yet to splash black in R/G, but when I do it will be for Nethervoid and/or Chains of Mephistopheles. Maybe I just like prisony control more than mid-rangy beat down.


Goyf, Knight and other horizontally growing creatures can be painful though. I guess if there was a large amount of them in your meta it could be worth a thought.There's always Maze, and a main-deck Bog comes in handy. But I know how we sometimes get overwhelmed. I loath to spend an Abrupt Decay to kill a creature, as I prefer to have it handy when they drop a crippling artifact or enchantment. Sometimes it's the right play, of course, but even in a Maverick heavy meta I'd be hard pressed to run the over 4x Grip.

[Dice_Box]

I've yet to splash black in R/G, but when I do it will be for Nethervoid and/or Chains of Mephistopheles.
If they ever print a Academy for Enchantments, I think these could be useful, but as the deck stands right now I feel you have better options. Almost everything Chains shuts down you can also effect with Choke and Void we could definitely use, but it is too slow to cast for my liking. I want that Academy though, even though it will never be printed.

[Chatto]

Nether Void in RGCL... Nether-Lands!

But seriously, when going the B-route would you don't just try s different build altogether?

[Crimhead]

If they ever print a Academy for Enchantments, I think these could be useful, but as the deck stands right now I feel you have better options. Almost everything Chains shuts down you can also effect with Choke and Void we could definitely use, but it is too slow to cast for my liking. Yeh, probably why I've yet to splashed black in RGCL yet! Also slots are hard to free up.



But seriously, when going the B-route would you don't just try s different build altogether?
I like RUGb lands very much; and one of these days I'm going to sleeve up Jund Lands. The draw for Chains and Netherviod in R/G is that we can Gamble for it. Other builds will have to hope to draw them naturally, or more likely dredge them into oblivion.

Lands is also a deck I love to tweak. I think only once did I ever run a list (at en event) exactly the same as I had at a previous event. So I like to try lots of different things - including possibly a black splash in R/G.


I want that Academy though, even though it will never be printed.A man can dream...

[Qujibo]

New to this thread, made an account just to be part of it.

Been playing this deck at my FNMs for about 4 months now, doing reasonably well (10-25 entrants each week, meta about 60% fair 40% combo decks)

Just want to ask everyone's opinion on the deck's tranquil thicket count. I have been reading everyone's opinion on cutting the 4th fetch for a GQ or a bog, but around 2 months ago I cut mine to put in a third thicket.

I find it helps me keep some of the sketchy hands (I can go into this in detail if needed) and gives me much more game about boarded in gy hate.

Let me know your thoughts, I am playing the standard list w/ 4 depths and karakas & bog in the board.

[Admiral_Arzar]

I've yet to splash black in R/G, but when I do it will be for Nethervoid and/or Chains of Mephistopheles. Maybe I just like prisony control more than mid-rangy beat down.



I wouldn't play Nether Void. Take it from experience - I've played a LOT of Pox and black-based Stax, and the card is bad. Trinisphere is much better in the majority of cases. Chains is ok but often doesn't do enough, especially since it doesn't hit DTT. There are some matchups (Shardless) where it's hilarious though.

[Dice_Box]

New to this thread, made an account just to be part of it.

Been playing this deck at my FNMs for about 4 months now, doing reasonably well (10-25 entrants each week, meta about 60% fair 40% combo decks)

Just want to ask everyone's opinion on the deck's tranquil thicket count. I have been reading everyone's opinion on cutting the 4th fetch for a GQ or a bog, but around 2 months ago I cut mine to put in a third thicket.

I find it helps me keep some of the sketchy hands (I can go into this in detail if needed) and gives me much more game about boarded in gy hate.

Let me know your thoughts, I am playing the standard list w/ 4 depths and karakas & bog in the board.

Welcome and stick around.

gigapatrick runs a three Thicket build and he stands by it, I would suggest getting his views on that. (And looking up his vids listed in the Primer) Personally I run and one and one split of Thicket and Canopy.

I can see the strengths on such a build, the speed that you can dig into your deck with Thicket is nuts and when digging for something you need, having a pair of them in hand with a Loam going is unfair. 3 of them would be nuts. I would not shout you down from such a build and only ask that should you replace these cards with others, balance up what you gain and lose. Perhaps cutting down to 3 Depths and putting in some extra mana there might help. You do not need 4 I feel.

As for the 4th fetch, it's overkill. I mean, we don't need more than 3 in my opinion. 4 is just too many dead Lands to have once they no longer have any targets. I guess you can argue that you can pitch them to Mox but really once you have no targets left your not drawing cards any more. Not a fan. 3 Fetches, 3 Duals and a Basic. That is my view is the best line up.

Edit:
In an unrelated note, if my math serves me right we are looking at a threshold of 85 points this month. We stay in. Just.

[barcode]

I'm also a firm believer in 3 Thickets, but I'm back down to 2 for testing a Ghost Quarter in its place.

I also play 3 fetches and 4 fetchable lands (Bayou, 2 Taiga, Forest). Four fetches is awful since they'll be dead very quickly.

[gigapatrick]

If you want to see an ugly one against another Miracles deck, here it is:

Building a Fortress #6 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irB0beE3I_o)

[barcode]

I played the black splash tonight at FNM and cast bob twice: Once vs Death & Taxes (drew 3 cards and already can't possibly lose this match) and once vs Omni when I just died right after (I was dead no matter what). Last week I cast it vs. Miracles but then it was Terminused right away so there's no meaningful data there.

Right now I'm kind of off it. Depending what the B&R list says on Monday I might go back to red blasts (which conflict with Chalice, I know) to shore up the Omni match. I'm also reconsidering my Omni sideboard strategy: I think I need to leave Crop Rotation in and just accept that Force of Will is just going to set me back so far.

Tonight was good testing vs a competent Omni player (white splash for 1 main Plow & SB Mentor instead of Pyromancer) and I learned that it's just not possible to play a long game with them unless our opening hand contains a large number of hate cards.

After tonight my sideboard might become:

4 Grip
3 Trinisphere
3 Choke
3 REB
2 Chalice of the Void

An alternate plan might be a deeper commitment to Black for the new 4B edict land and discard spells. Lots of testing to do before the GP.

[Alexeezay]

gigapatrick, in G2 you forgot to play a land on turn 2 :D

Also, I think when the opponent established Countertop in Game 1 you underestimated your hand. You could have played Gamble, see if he flips Top & in response then play Crop Rotation. This might give you at least a shot. Similarly, you could also do stuff like Crop on his upkeep, then Pfire or then you get a window on your following turn for Life from the Loam to resolve...it is hard but if the opponent messes up or your spell slips through it can work out.
A Rishadan Port or 2 would have helped a lot :)

Btw, your video made me realize again that I really want to try Boil or Tsunami over Choke because they board in several pieces of Artifact/Enchantment removal...

[gigapatrick]

gigapatrick, in G2 you forgot to play a land on turn 2 :D

Ugh. That's embarrassing.

[gigapatrick]

Here's another video, this time against Grixis Control:

Building a Fortress #7 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCyow50Whu0)

[Dice_Box]

Can you put them in a playlist for me to link? It's better than updating the primer for each Vid.

Thanks.

[door]

to add to the recent conversation. Playing 2 fetches, 2 taigas and 1 forest. No regrets and no problems. Won't raise the numbers unless I need to splash.

[Dice_Box]

So, Omnishow is no longer going to be the issue it was.

[barcode]

Dig Through Time is now banned in Legacy.

This has a major impact to our beloved deck:

* Our nemesis, Omnitell has been cut off at the knees. They may go back to Enter the Infinite and Dream Halls
* Other blue Dig decks now get to run Rest in Peace again
* The re-rise of Sneak & Show
* Miracles has more slots in their main deck since they too lose Dig.

There are ripple effects as well:
* Death and Taxes may make a resurgence if Sneak & Show takes a percentage of Omnitell metagame (this is good for us).
* ???

How do we adapt? I expect Sneak & Show to make a comeback, which means I definitely want Karakas mainboard.

[gigapatrick]

Hello all:

Went 2-1-1 yesterday at my local with the list I've been running online. Beat Merfolk in a one-sided match, lost to ANT after three very interesting games with some good play by my opponent, beat Goblins in three games after keeping a sketchy hand game one with the combo and Tabernacle but no green sources, and then drew with Death and Taxes in the final round. The draw was especially disheartening this time, not because I didn't expect it (since Death and Taxes has a billon ways to stall us out and if they nab a game a draw is almost unavoidable), but because the judge specifically said we could play it out if we wanted to. I was in a very commanding position and said I wanted to play it out, but my opponent declined since I had Grove-Fire and Loam going with an Exploration on board. I can't blame him (I've done something similar in the past), but it was still a bummer.

In any case, here are a couple of new videos and, as requested from Dice_Box, a link to my channel so no more extensive updates to the primer are required. As an upside, you can watch all my old Pox videos if you're interested in that kind of thing. Peace.

All My Videos (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjgwxX3BKIKU2rBCwHlar6A)

Building a Fortress #8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ViS7I8Shi4)

Building a Fortress #9 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHICWXgINh4)

[Dice_Box]

I think for the short term we don't change anything. I will not be shocked if Karakas has to go back in the main, but that's not really an issue. Spheres are not going to be AS necessary, but they still hold use against a good amount of decks. Choke is as good as it ever was and if DnT does make a come back, I would not think much needs to be done. We already run Artifact hate and that's all the additional help we need against them.

Personally, I want to see what happens as the dust settles. Vice will do sweet fuck all, but it's going to be interesting to watch people play with it. If it really takes hold I will laugh when I cast Manabond against someone using it. Dig taking a long walk off a short pier will be good for a lot of people though. Not too many tears over this one.

Edit:
Sweet. I have a link to your channel though your vids, what I was hoping you could do was make a playlist with just your Lands vids. That way as things get added the links are provided to those who go to you from the primer.

[gigapatrick]

My bad. Here it is:

Building a Fortress Playlist (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLnKd4zx_gmR4plZ4cgopTDynggjop5awh)

[Dice_Box]

My bad. Here it is:

Building a Fortress Playlist (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLnKd4zx_gmR4plZ4cgopTDynggjop5awh)

Thanks. I will update that after I get home.

[lavafrogg]

Would a black vise be a viable win condition against decks we can lock down? It is a great prison win condition and we could use a buried ruin to make sure we don't dredge it.

[Dice_Box]

It's on my mind, I feel though that it's more of a RUG thing and less of our thing. The issue with lands like that is you need more than a single target to make them useful. Additional targets take up space and the obvious targets are not as great as they would first apear. I tried to make an artifact splash work for about 2 months will all different kinds of builds. In the end I gave it up in disgust.

So yes, it could be useful, but I am not sure how much more useful it would be then Punishing Fire once they are not casting anything.

[barcode]

Would a black vise be a viable win condition against decks we can lock down? It is a great prison win condition and we could use a buried ruin to make sure we don't dredge it.

We're already winning against decks we can lock down.

[door]

Vise is a very slow wincon, which needs certain conditions to work and extra splash for it's recovery. I don't think the deck needs it.

[gigapatrick]

On Vise: I'm surprised someone mentioned it. For it to be effective, we will need to have locked the opponent out of the game, and if we've locked the opponent out of the game, we already have a faster, recurrable win-con in the form of Stage-Depths. Honestly, I think Black Vise will see zero play in any deck. I don't think Burn can even play it, as a top-decked Vise mid- to late-game sure would feel awful.

On Dig Through Time: I'm much more interested in this discussion. I just read an article on TES by Bryant Cook, who argues (among many other things not related to Lands) that Lands receives a big boost with this banning. While I disagree with him on the assessment of the Lands-Miracles matchup, I agree that seeing Dig Through Time leave is great for us. We should see a rise in discard-based decks, which we usually have good matchups against, and now blue-based decks lose their best way to keep up with our card advantage engine. Other thoughts?

[Djehuti]

Other thoughts?

Agreed that discard decks become better. I will not pretend to be an expert but here's what i'm thinking:

Omni might be replaced by Sneak and Show, which probably improves our win % slightly, although that matchup is still rough.
BUG could see a resurgence; this match up is winnable.
ANT might pick up where Omni left off as the premier combo deck; if this is the case I may favor sphere of resistance over trinisphere.
Should Elves become more popular: sphere is looking even more appealing.
D & T/ Maverick: this matchup doesn't scare me
Out of the gate in an unknown meta, I think many people will play delver decks or miracles. It's not Omni, life is good.

What I'm most worried about is Imperial Painter has the most to gain from this banning since there will be significantly less Emrakul decks floating around. Molten Vortex/seismic Assault might be a serious consideration if painter takes off..

[Darkgobs]

[...]
What I'm most worried about is Imperial Painter has the most to gain from this banning since there will be significantly less Emrakul decks floating around. Molten Vortex/seismic Assault might be a serious consideration if painter takes off..

I don't think we'll see a significant decline of Emrakul.deck. Sneak&Show, as you mentionned it above, will be a thing again, and they will still be some OmniTell players. So they might slightly less Emies, but not enough to make Painter become more popular imho. Some of the decks that gain the most from DTT ban are Shardless and Team America and Storm.deck. Against Storm, just SoR instead of Trinisphere and Bojuka Maindeck. And I think both of the BUG match-ups are quite ok for us.

[gigapatrick]

Another couple videos:

Building a Fortress #10 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvxgXzCcTo0)

Building a Fortress #11 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSZAdEt3H0I)

Both have been included in the playlist.

[Lord_Mcdonalds]

I don't think we'll see a significant decline of Emrakul.deck. Sneak&Show, as you mentionned it above, will be a thing again, and they will still be some OmniTell players. So they might slightly less Emies, but not enough to make Painter become more popular imho. Some of the decks that gain the most from DTT ban are Shardless and Team America and Storm.deck. Against Storm, just SoR instead of Trinisphere and Bojuka Maindeck. And I think both of the BUG match-ups are quite ok for us.

Greedy 3 color decks being more of a thing helps Painter more then a decline in emrakul.dec, the problem in the previous format was turn 2 blood moon wasn't that strong in a format where Mono-U and a deck with 6-7 basics being two of the preeminent decks in the format, now the format will be similar to pre-Khans where blood moon (and by extension Painter) was much stronger.

[Darkgobs]

Greedy 3 color decks being more of a thing helps Painter more then a decline in emrakul.dec, the problem in the previous format was turn 2 blood moon wasn't that strong in a format where Mono-U and a deck with 6-7 basics being two of the preeminent decks in the format, now the format will be similar to pre-Khans where blood moon (and by extension Painter) was much stronger.

Well, sadly for us, you're right. Let's hope that Painter players will decide that there still is too much emi.deck (so they almost cannot mull them).

[Crimhead]

Well, sadly for us, you're right. Let's hope that Painter players will decide that there still is too much emi.deck (so they almost cannot mull them).Painter is rough indeed. Chalice on one is pretty good against them to go with the Molten Vortex and Grips. It's not very good, but better than Belcher or High Tide.

[gigapatrick]

I don't think the situation is that rough. In the Treasure Cruise meta, Painter was represented reasonably well--and we were pretty good then too.

[Crimhead]

I mean the MU is rough! Overall meta is friendly and I'm certain we still have a tier one deck.

[Croprot]

So post dig ban I think we can justify 2 Trinisphere in the SB and go back on 4 sphere of resistance. My list is currently
4 gamble
4 punishing fire
4 crop rotation
4 loam
4 mox
4 exploration
2 mana bond
1 worm harvest
4 port
4 wasteland
1 Ghostquarter
4 grove
3 fetch
2 taiga
1 tabernacle
1 tranquil thicket
1 karakas
1 Glacial chasm
1 Forest
3 Maze of ith
4 thespian stage
3 dark depths

SB
4 sphere
4 krosan grip
2 Trinisphere
1 Bojuka bog
1 Chalice
2 choke
1 boseiju

I am unsure of choke right now but I think it's ridiculous against miracles so I'm gonna keep it in. The worm harvest in the main is something I'm testing right now. I used to have 2 thickets but I'm testing only 1. The other spot to test with the worm harvest is in a punishing fire spot. What do you guys think?

[barcode]

So post dig ban I think we can justify 2 Trinisphere in the SB and go back on 4 sphere of resistance. My list is currently
4 gamble
4 punishing fire
4 crop rotation
4 loam
4 mox
4 exploration
2 mana bond
1 worm harvest
4 port
4 wasteland
1 Ghostquarter
4 grove
3 fetch
2 taiga
1 tabernacle
1 tranquil thicket
1 karakas
1 Glacial chasm
1 Forest
3 Maze of ith
4 thespian stage
3 dark depths

SB
4 sphere
4 krosan grip
2 Trinisphere
1 Bojuka bog
1 Chalice
2 choke
1 boseiju

I am unsure of choke right now but I think it's ridiculous against miracles so I'm gonna keep it in. The worm harvest in the main is something I'm testing right now. I used to have 2 thickets but I'm testing only 1. The other spot to test with the worm harvest is in a punishing fire spot. What do you guys think?

I agree with going back to spheres and 3balls, but I think I'd rather have the second Chalice instead of the 4th sphere.

[Qujibo]

any thoughts of the return 1 of eldrazi to the sb? if painter really comes back strong or was this just a bad idea from the start??

(remember seeing old david long lists w/ it)

[Dice_Box]

As someone who once played Painter as my primary deck, if you can't stop me because I have locked you out, I don't care if you I can't combo you. I have Painter, Welder, Jaya, Spirit Guide and Koth to kill you with while putting down a steady line of Vindicates. Sure you can buy time with it but it won't win you the game when you can't recur Fire and you can't attack past a bridge.

Focus on winning, not delaying. If you fear Painter, play a Vortex or Assault.

[Nikolai004]

Focus on winning, not delaying. If you fear Painter, play a Vortex or Assault.

I'd have to say Assault is just the better option. With thickets and loam, having no activation cost is the best and you can fully utilize all of your mana every turn. If you can get 5 lands plus a thicket in your hand you can end the game much sooner than if you had to essentially waste a mana to activate Vortex. Also if you run Chalice and land it on one you're hurting your back up plan.

[gigapatrick]

Building a Fortress #12 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkBZ-WMi9o0)

This one is against Elves again. A lot of the same players in the two-mans at the same time as me, but between work and school, I can only play at certain times. Do hope to see some more variation, though.

[Chatto]

Guys, Painter is just a fucked-up MU. Focus on winning in a very very fast way. In my humble opinion Blood Moon.decks are Living Nightmares. I'll be testing with a friend (who is an Painter-adept) just to see how I will do.

EDIT: to clarify, Blood Moon.decks are decks packing Blood Moons in their 75.

[RingoDeathStarr]

I'm a longtime painter player, and recently a lands player as well. Emrakul is a bad plan, painter will board in RIP etc. anyway, and like dice said, we don't even care if we can't combo if you can't either under moon. Fetch your basic and keep hands with grip post board or gamble on fast combo hands, and that's pretty much it. Assault or vortex is fine if you want, but as chatto mentioned, it's just a terrible matchup against a fairly uncommon deck, and it's probably not even worth addressing individually.

The real issue is also that painter is so heavily favored in game 1, there's not really a sideboard plan strong enough to reliably take 2 and 3. Just my opinion, but painter has its fair share of decks it's cold to as well, and it's kinda just part of the game that you will be a dog to some match ups. Not worth skewing what's good about your deck to make it less bad in corner cases.

[Djehuti]

I'd have to say Assault is just the better option. With thickets and loam, having no activation cost is the best and you can fully utilize all of your mana every turn. If you can get 5 lands plus a thicket in your hand you can end the game much sooner than if you had to essentially waste a mana to activate Vortex. Also if you run Chalice and land it on one you're hurting your back up plan.

I'm going to politely disagree with you on this point. Theoretically you're right that seismic assault is better once it is on the table and I thought the same thing until I started failing to cast the card game after game and I died with it in my hand. If you ever want to bring in assault as an alternate win condition or extra removal against a non-bloodmoon deck, assembling RRR is sometimes a challenge and the damage may already be done by the time you drop it. Keep in mind that you should fetch your forest first against painter so you need 3 other red sources besides your forest to get this into play anyways. I bring in vortex against delver, D & T, miracles, and the mirror. I can't say I would side seismic assault in those matchups. My point is that vortex is more flexible outside of the context of blood moon matchups, while still providing utility in said matchup.

[Nikolai004]

I'm going to politely disagree with you on this point. Theoretically you're right that seismic assault is better once it is on the table and I thought the same thing until I started failing to cast the card game after game and I died with it in my hand. If you ever want to bring in assault as an alternate win condition or extra removal against a non-bloodmoon deck, assembling RRR is sometimes a challenge and the damage may already be done by the time you drop it. Keep in mind that you should fetch your forest first against painter so you need 3 other red sources besides your forest to get this into play anyways. I bring in vortex against delver, D & T, miracles, and the mirror. I can't say I would side seismic assault in those matchups. My point is that vortex is more flexible outside of the context of blood moon matchups, while still providing utility in said matchup.

Each has their pros and cons, and my very limited experience with both leads me to prefer Assault. Usually delver matchups I would bring in grips and move on and not even consider assault or vortex, since I feel it's a promising matchup. D&T, well, I only brought it in once against them and it helped me kill their batterskull token 4 times and eventually win the game once I stabilized. Miracles, I give vortex the nod because it can land before a counterbalance. As for the mirror, I run maindeck Bog for that and don't think I've ever thought about bringing either in or have seen it brought in against me. Granted, it's a rather small sampling but, that's a bit more of my reasoning.

[Chatto]

But how many would you pack to make either one efficient, to make sure you draw it constistantly WITHOUT use of Gamble? Will you mull for it aggressively? I much rather get my basic Beta Forest asap, assemble the combo under Blood Moon, and K-Grip Blood Moon, knowing even this could be too slow....

I understand them being 'second wincon', and of course, if you land one or the other, and the ball starts rolling, both can be good. I even tried two Assaults, but I dropped them in favor of a more broad SB.

[Dice_Box]

Chalice is likely our best card against Painter. It means they can't play their combo and they can't Vindicate our shit and the card also has a good role against other decks too.

Personally though, I would just not bother with Painter and sure up other matches.

[barcode]

Personally though, I would just not bother with Painter and sure up other matches.

It's almost as if Painter isn't a Deck to Beat... ;)

[Dice_Box]

Its actually funny how our mortal enemy feeds off the same decks we do and does it in mostly the same way. (Mana denial and control) Still does't mean I want to play against it.

[Admiral_Arzar]

Its actually funny how our mortal enemy feeds off the same decks we do and does it in mostly the same way. (Mana denial and control) Still does't mean I want to play against it.

It's even funnier for me, because they are the two decks I generally play when I want to win (and I've been on both sides of the matchup in the past). I was locked in on Lands for GP: Tacoma assuming the meta didn't shift. I'm not sure if Painter might be a better choice now.

[Dice_Box]

Well if I was wondering what the event would look like I would look at this (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?5460-DTBF-Philosophy-amp-Deck-Selection&p=835898&viewfull=1#post835898) and this (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?5460-DTBF-Philosophy-amp-Deck-Selection&p=840503&viewfull=1#post840503) as my starting guesses. I would expect Elves, BUG and RUG Delver, BUG control, Blade Control, Shardless and Miracles to be big hitters. If I was to spike that list I would take Dredge.

Storm will take a hit from the return of Delver, Grixis will fair badly with the bannings, Sneak and Show as well as DnT will make a comeback and I feel that People who play Omnishow will either show up with it anyway or try and switch to Sneak Attack. With that in mind I think I would put Karakas main.

[Layalouhamesh]

Hi all!

Tomorrow, I play Lands in tournament for the first time, and I wanted to try a GRb list to have access to Confident post-board.
Since I'm quite new to this, I'm looking for some advice, especially on the SB (I expect the meta to be mostly Miracles/Shardless).

So here is the list.


Pure mana sources
* 1 Forest
* 1 Bayou
* 2 Taiga
* 3 Fetches
* 4 Mox Diamond

Combo
* 4 Thespian Stage
* 3 Dark Depths

Mana denial
* 4 Wasteland
* 4 Rishadan Port
* 1 Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale

Creatures handling
* 4 Groves of the Burnwillows
* 4 Punishing fire
* 1 Karakas
* 3 Maze of Ith
* 1 Glacial Chasm

Tutors & draw
* 4 Gamble
* 4 Crop Rotation
* 1 Tranquil Thicket
* 1 Horizon Canopy

Lands stuff
* 4 Life from the Loam
* 4 Exploration
* 2 Manabond


SB
* 1 Dark Depths
* 1 Chalice of the Void
* 3 Krosan Grip
* 1 Bojuka Bog
* 2 Choke
* 3 Dark Confident
* 3 Trinisphere
* 1 Molten Vortex


A few remarks:

* I tried to cut Fetch #3 to Ghost Quarter, but I'm not convinced by this choice. With 3 colors and since I expect some Miracles, I will certainly face some Blood Moons and I need to touch my forest really fast.

* I read the whole topic, but I can't remember finding a discussion on Urborg. Since I splash black, it was a possibility. However, I think that the card is in fact quite bad for 2 reasons:
xxx*x1°) We don't need that much mana.
xxx*x2°) It gives the opponent's fetches the possibility to make B mana, which is contrary to the mana denial plan of the deck. Also, it happens sometimes that the opponent is 21 life (Grove), and him fetching is often the key to victory if you can make a Marit Lage in the next turn.
Do you guys feel the same about the card?

* Horizon Canopy should be a second Thicket, but I have only one (a bit ironic when you see the price of the deck)

* I chose Molten Vortex over Seismic Assault due to the 3 color build, although I think Assault would be slightly better in the expected meta.

Thanks for your help!

[Crimhead]

It's on my mind, I feel though that it's more of a RUG thing and less of our thing. The issue with lands like that is you need more than a single target to make them useful. Additional targets take up space and the obvious targets are not as great as they would first apear. I tried to make an artifact splash work for about 2 months will all different kinds of builds. In the end I gave it up in disgust.

So yes, it could be useful, but I am not sure how much more useful it would be then Punishing Fire once they are not casting anything.

RUG Lands can also mill the opponent by recurring Mox/EE with Academy Ruins. If I want more bite with that build I run Creeping Tar Pit - it's far more useful to the standard game-plan than Vise.


Personally though, I would just not bother with Painter and sure up other matches.Probably sound. But SB answers to Moon itself might make sense. Sneak Show could be on the rise, and that's a winnable match. Of course Miracles sometimes runs it too.


If you ever want to bring in assault as an alternate win condition or extra removal against a non-bloodmoon deck, assembling RRR is sometimes a challenge and the damage may already be done by the time you drop it...
...My point is that vortex is more flexible outside of the context of blood moon matchups, while still providing utility in said matchup.
I don't think I'd bring these in outside the context of a Bloodmoon match. It's largely a question of there being enough Moons in your meta to justify a slot for these at all.

[barcode]

So I played FNM last night, of course. My local metagame has seemingly gone back in time to esper stoneblade. I had three real matches (the first opponent, on Tezzerator, was flooded both games) and in each game it came down to True-Name Nemesis and Jace. I had forgotten how fucking miserable TNN is to deal with.

In one game I ran my opponent out of lands by recurring Wasteland and Ghost Quarter with Exploration in play and wrathed him with Tabernacle (I made Marit Lage on turn 3-his turn- of extra time to finish it in just enough time).

In another game I also ran my opponent out of lands by recurring ghost quarter.

In the final match his build was more of 4 colour delver deck with Wastelands of his own. Game 1 I was tilted because some shitlord next to me was singing in the quality of a dying cat and wouldn't stop until I snapped at him. Fuck head. Lost game 1, crushed game 2. Game 3 he had the old double Relic of Progenitus with Deathrite and FoW for Punishing Fire. The game went on for a while and came down to him playing Winter Orb after True-Name Nemesis. I was drawing very slim since I had exiled two of my Dark Depths and couldn't find anything relevant in time.

The lessons learned from matches around me: Death and Taxes is still present, Sneak Attack decks have come back, and the guy who always plays Painter showed up.

From my own matches: Ghost Quarter is as good as ever. I kind of want REBs in the sideboard instead of clunky Spheres, especially if 3/4 of the time I'll be facing TNN and heavy counterspells. I want to be on the Boil plan, too. Choke is great but it can be disenchanted.

After next week I want to test the new black edict land to see if it's good enough. In a world of Sneak Attacks and TNNs I want to edict people.

[non-inflammable]

After next week I want to test the new black edict land to see if it's good enough. In a world of Sneak Attacks and TNNs I want to edict people.

adding that to my main right now, for tonight's legacy...

not so much the true-name but that damn nimble mongoose!

[Dice_Box]

How will you adapt the mana? Single Bayou?

Layalouhamesh, good write up on Urborg. I'm impressed. Welcome too the thread.

[barcode]

How will you adapt the mana? Single Bayou?

Layalouhamesh, good write up on Urborg. I'm impressed. Welcome too the thread.

Swap a Taiga for a Bayou and maybe see if I can squeeze an Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth. I already play main deck Bojuka Bog so I have that as another black source...

[Dice_Box]

How useful will a main Bog be now that Dig is gone? What other targets have you in mind?

[barcode]

How useful will a main Bog be now that Dig is gone? What other targets have you in mind?

It's a good hedge for the mirror (we are a DTB), helps to reset RUG delver's Threshold, great for Reanimator and Dredge. What other cards could occupy that slot? A Blighted Fen, a third Thicket, the fourth Crop Rotation (but with one less bullet), the fourth Depths (not a big fan of too many non-mana lands), a Riftstone Portal, maybe a Mishra's Factory or Raging Ravine even...

I always cut Bog vs the Dig decks since they can just Dig in response to the Bog trigger.

[Croprot]

How useful will a main Bog be now that Dig is gone? What other targets have you in mind?

I'm currently running it in the board in favor of Ghostquarter. If rug Delver gets big again the ghost quarter will be very useful in my opinion. Also if rug Delver gets big then we have less to worry about with reanimator. While the bog does reset goose I don't think that is worth the slot when we can have a 5th wasteland. Also it's insane in the combo MU because of the tendency of people to trot out basics first.

[UnsungHero]

Made Top 8 at the SCG Legacy IQ in Indy. Hoping to have a write up on my matches and list soon!

[Dice_Box]

You guys all make me really jelly I don't live in the states, but it's great to hear you all do so well. Got to love this deck.

Congratulations.

[UnsungHero]

5th at SCG Legacy IQ: Indianapolis

Played at the Legacy IQ in Indy this weekend. This is my first top 8 in an SCG event, and really the only ever big showing I've had in Legacy thus far. Normally at SCG events I play Painter, but I made the swap over to Lands. This is my first time playing R/G lands in a big event. I was always nervous playing the deck in a event like this due to time constraints. But most of my matches didn't even come close to time, which make me really happy that I played the deck well and quickly. My notes aren't the greatest, and I don't remember too much on what I boarded in and out.

My Decklist (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=92449)

Top 32 (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/deckshow.php?&t[C1]=3&start_date=10/03/2015&end_date=10/04/2015&city=indianapolis&limit=100)

Round 1 WIN 2 - 0 Esper Stoneblade
Game 1: I start with some Mox, Land Loam action, and start building up lands. I have Stage + Depths online, but A bunch of lingering Souls tokens are preventing me from going off. I crop rotation for Tabernacle to really slow him down. He also lands a Jace, which will just bounce the token. On my turn, He has 2 islands open and nothing else, I have a Manabond, and I have a suspicion that he has Counterspell, so I port one of his islands, move to combat, and Play the Manabond, and it resolves. I cast Loam, and grab 3 lands. End Turn I drop 5 lands 2 which are Groves and I have Punishing Fire in the grave. I have enough to really start wrecking the tokens. He reveals Counterspell, as his only card in hand and scoops. Some damn good instincts right there.

Game 2: He starts with Sea + Pithing Needle naming Stage. Cool. I play a fetch with exploration and waste his Sea. He fetches a basic and brainstorms, passes turn. I get ghost quarter and start wrecking his manabase with Loam recursion. Eventually he is out of basics (and isn't drawing lands). I draw Grip and get rid of the needle and make our favorite 20/20.

Round 2 LOSS 0 - 2 Miracles
Game 1: I build up a decent amount of lands, into a quick 20/20. Through all this he gets Counterbalance and Top online. He swords the token putting me at 38. He gets an Entreat making 1 angel. I top deck an Maze of Ith. Sweet! He then plays Jace. Not Sweet. He has Counterbalance and Top and an active Jace, and I have no gas, so I scoop hoping for a better Game 2.

Game 2: I build up a solid amount of lands with Manabond. He does the usual miracles durdle, into a Blood Moon. Crap. He also plays a RiP as well. I do have K.Grip in hand, but was a dummy and didn't fetch for the forest. I eventually draw the forest, and K.Grip the Moon. I play Choke and its met by Force. On His turn He plays another Moon. I can't do anything about the multiple hate enchantments (RIP and Moon) and Counterbalance and Top and he drops Jace and I scoop. Stupid Miracles! His deck was foiled out, so at least it was pleasant to look at.

Round 3 WIN 2 - 0 Burn
Game 1: Not much to say here. Turn 1 he plays Goblin Guide. And I get a Forest. Nice! I play Exploration, and play a Grove. He does some burn stuff, passes. I play Depths and Stage and pass. He swings with guide again, I grab a land off the trigger, make the token and block. Then I swing in my turn for the kill.

Game 2: Another quick game. He opens with guide, and I get a land off of it. I play Taiga, and Mox Diamond and Exploration. I play stage as my extra land and Pass. He does some burn stuff. I play 2 ports on my land and during his combat I crop rotation and get depths and make the 20/20 and swing on my turn. Since there is like 35min left in the round I go and get some grub. Sweet.

Round 4 WIN 2 - 0 Mono Black Pox (Legends Enchantments.dec)
Game 1: Super fast hand of Land, Exploration, Mox, Stage. He does Mishras Factory+ Cursed Scroll Go. I play waste and Grove. He plays another factory and swings, I crop rotation into depths, make the token and block his Factory. And swing on my turn for the kill.

Game 2: Game to is very rough for him, as he has to mulligan to 5. I also have a similar hand as last game with an explosive combo. This really wasn't really a game as I had an explosive start with exploration and just made a quick 20/20 with crop rotation. with only seeing a cursed scroll from him. He shows me his deck and he has all sorts of cool Legends enchantments and winter factories. Dope stuff, wish he could have wrecked miracles.

Round 5 WIN 2 - 1 Shardless BUG
Game 1: I build up a nice amount of lands eventually having stage and depths while surviving some Goyf beats (haven't seen ol' goofy for awhile!) He lands a strix, but I rip a punishing fire to shoot the Strix. I take another hit from Goyf. One my turn I put a grove down so if I need to kill a strix with Punishing fire recursion, but I am able to just make the token, block the Goyf and smash smash smash….

Game 2: I have an explosive exploration hand, but has a needle on stage. I also get the depths, but can never find a K Grip. I die to Goyf and double Deathrite. He even kills his own needle to get an artifact in the yard for exact damage.

Game 3: I Keep him off of lands early with exploration double waste. But starts grabbing basics with fetches. I have a stage and am trying to draw into a depths. He wastes my stage, however I'm able to loam into a depths and grab stage and depths with loam. He is beating me down with goyf but I make the token to block the Goyf. If I didn't have loam, this would be risky because he could make me sacrifice the token to Lilana and without loam he would just Deathrite me to death.

Round 6 WIN 2 - 1 Grixis Delver
This actually sucks, because I am playing one of my friends that I rode with to the event. But we must do battle!

Game 1: I have a great opening hand. Fetch for taiga, play Diamond play exploration play port I also have crop rotation in my hand. Pass. He plays U.Sea into brainstorm and pass. I draw stage and end of his turn crop rotation into depths and make a 20/20.

Game 2: I don't remember much of this game, as he had a double waste and he was able to counter and early exploration. I die to Pyromancer and the tokens. No good draws and he had some good answers.

Game 3: Pretty good game, he gets going really fast out of the gate with delver and Deathrite, but I have punishing fire and grave and wreck is dudes and eventually draw into Depths and Stage.

Round 7 WIN 2 - 1 Burn
Fun Fact: I have a ton of experience against burn with lands. 2 of my good friends play it so I have a ton of practice.

Game 1: Goblin guide gets me a land, I play exploration online drop a stage. Next turn a stage an another land. He doesn't have enough burn to kill me so the 20/20 gets there.

Game 2: He blows me up with a ton of burn. I have depths and stage, but no exploration to get it out super fast. He swings on his turn and I am able to make the 20/20 to block his Goblin guide, but he has an ediolon that connects and 2 chain lightnings and a fire blast gets there. Gross.

Game 3: Not much of a game here, he plays some burn and on the end of his turn I tap a mox, grove and port for 3mana use 1 from the mox to crop rotation the port out grabbing stage to make the 20/20.

Round 8 ID (Eureka Tell)
Good thing we drew. This deck looked silly.

Top 8 0-2 LOSS Sneak N Show
Game 1: I actually don't know what he is on, but I keep a solid 3 land hand with grove being one of the lands and 2 P.Fires. Sadly he is on sneak n show, and my fires don't do much.
Game 2: Now that i know he's on sneak and show, I use a gamble for a Karakas, out of 6 cards he nabs the Karakas. I guess thats why the card is called gamble. I end up getting wrecked by Spaghetti man and my top 8 is cut short. This guy eventually ended up in the finals. and had I known what he was on I wouldn't have kept the hand I did game 1.

I get $200 in cash, a cool playmat, a top 8 pin and some excellent time with friends.
MVP of the day was Crop Rotation: So many times this card just sealed the deal and was very relevant for finding what I needed in crunch situations.

Random Notes
• My board is probably going to change a bit, as I want to add a 4th depths to the side for faster Combo kills. Going for a fast kill is really important against Miracles.
• I will probably cut the 2 Sphere of Resistance for 1 Trinisphere and the 4th Depths. I probably hate the 2 Sphere of Resistance because I never really board it in ever and I just wanna play Trinisphere.
• I tried Boil in the side, but never really wanted it in any matchup other than miracles. Even choke wasn't great against miracles. I would rather just play Flashfires and keep them off white but even that seems bad. I really just want to cast one of those cards from a Boseiju, straight from magical Christmas land. Miracles is just a tough matchup in general.
• I think with the return of Sneak n Show having a 2nd (Or even a 3rd) Karakas in the board doesn't seem like a bad idea. I think this seems like a better option to fight Sneak n Show than a black splash with Blighted Fen (The new BFZ Edict Land)
• Ghost Quarter was good for me. Was very relevant in the Esper game.
• I didn't miss Bog maindeck at all. It was good in the side and brought it against Shardless to shrink goyfs and remove deathrite stuff (even though most of the time they hit you with it, but limiting their options is important.) But I feel its fine in the side.
• Miracles is still super annoying.

I do plan to play this at the Open in St.Louis, so I will tweak the sideboard as I test a bit more. I love this deck and am very happy with the way it performed. Thanks for reading!

[Rivfader]

5th at SCG Legacy IQ: Indianapolis

Played at the Legacy IQ in Indy this weekend. This is my first top 8 in an SCG event, and really the only ever big showing I've had in Legacy thus far. Normally at SCG events I play Painter, but I made the swap over to Lands.

Congrats on the result Unsunghero!
As Omnitell's gone now, Pithing Needle seems a good option for the side again, especially versus Sneakshow and Miracles (more than trinisphere?).

[gigapatrick]

Congratulations, unsung hero. Just out of curiosity, was your pox opponent a guy with long dark hair by the name of kurtis?

Also, i encourage you to keep trying choke. I can't overstate how good i think the card is.

[UnsungHero]

Congratulations, unsung hero. Just out of curiosity, was your pox opponent a guy with long dark hair by the name of kurtis?

Also, i encourage you to keep trying choke. I can't overstate how good i think the card is.

Yup His name was Kurtis. The deck he had was super sweet. Ill probably keep choke in, however I never feel that I ever needed it against decks like delver and shardless though because of how good our mana denial is. Pithing Needle seems like a soild choice for SnT and is good in a variety of match ups.

[Croprot]

Yup His name was Kurtis. The deck he had was super sweet. Ill probably keep choke in, however I never feel that I ever needed it against decks like delver and shardless though because of how good our mana denial is. Pithing Needle seems like a soild choice for SnT and is good in a variety of match ups.

I agree with the other people supporting choke. There are a lot of match ups where this spell isn't obviously a good card. However, when you examine it in any blue match up, it can decide the game if it resolves. I bring it in against Delver and if it stops a counter from hitting a relevant card like Trinisphere or gamble it has done it's job because the permission they take out their bad permission post board. It isn't super consequential when you compare it to the mana denial we already have but in practice it means any blue creature deck can't pay for tabernacle. It means brainstorming now has to be done very conservatively. It means that miracles will almost never resolve a Jace if we have any rishadan ports on field and their entreats don't survive the tabernacle.
My current board is
3 sphere
3 Trinisphere
4 k grip
2 choke
1 boseiju
1 bog
1 Chalice of the void
My karakas I'd main board because mana denial plus some luck means we can destroy sneak and show. It also helps with DnT which may come back strong.

[gigapatrick]

Yup His name was Kurtis. The deck he had was super sweet. Ill probably keep choke in, however I never feel that I ever needed it against decks like delver and shardless though because of how good our mana denial is. Pithing Needle seems like a soild choice for SnT and is good in a variety of match ups.

Kurtis has been a buddy of mine for years and years and years. His deck is pretty fantastic to look at, though obviously Pox has a horrible matchup against us. I think he got me one time out of like thirty tests matches with a fast Liliana game one and an unanswered Leyline game two. Agreed about Choke against Delver. I've boarded it in against a Deathrite-Delver deck to good effect, and I've crushed Shardless Bug with Choke as well, but against Rug or Napoleonic Delver I probably wouldn't board in Choke. Choke works against Miracles and blue Midrange decks, and I guess using the card depends upon how big of a player Miracles becomes in this new (old) meta without Dig Through Time.

[Layalouhamesh]

How will you adapt the mana? Single Bayou?

Layalouhamesh, good write up on Urborg. I'm impressed. Welcome too the thread.

Thanks :D

I ended the tournament with a correct 3-2. As far as I remembered, things went this way:

1°) First match against a very good Shardless player, that ended up winning the tournament. I made a few mistakes tue to my discovery of the deck, and he got me with well-played strix/liliana. I think I could have made a better game with more experience of the pack. On game 2, Thespian stage gets needled, and meddling mage on punishing fire lock me long enough. 0-2

2°) Second match was against a UR Delver. Absolutely no problem on game 1, I combo on turn 5 after destroying/tapping his lands. On game 2, I expect him to play Blood Moon, so I side in Confident *3, Dark Depths *1, Choke *2 and Krosan Grip *3. I need to mulligan up to 5, and I keep a hand with only a Wasteland (plus Loam, Mox Diamond, Gamble and Grip). I cannot draw a land, and my opponent finally plays the Moon. It gives me the needed red mana to go search for my Forest with Gamble and start playing. In fact he locked himself. I finally put my mox into play, and draw 3 Confidents that kill him. My opponent was a bit too desesperate, and ended up playing quite bad after he locked himself (he stifled my mox!). 2-0

3°) Third match against a friend, that plays aggro Loam, with reliquary knight. This card is quite a pain, and he gets his Karakas when he needs it. Shaman and Ooze are really difficult too. I get game 2, but on game 3 he gets Leyline of the void in his opening hand, and plays a turn 1 chalice. I kill one reliquary with punishing fire followed by bojuka bog, but it is not enough 1-2

4°) Fourth match against Miracles. Not really a problem. The opponent assembles countertop on turn 2 on both games, but cannot find a 2-mana spell, so I play the combo twice (sworded Marit Lage) and end the game. On game 2, I put choke into play, and I have 3 rishadan in play. 2-0

5°) Shardless again, but this time I put my whole hand into play on turn 1 with manabond, and win on the next turn, while he has only discard in hand. Game 2 is a bit slower, but punishing fire killed all the beasts before I put the combo together. 2-0

The missing card was clearly Ghost Quarter to me. Against Miracles and Aggro Loam, I really needed a card to take out the plains.
Also, reliquary knight is a real pain since it gives Aggro Loam a lot of reactivity to find solutions.

I'm pretty satisfied of the confidents, since my opponents sided out nearly all creature removal spells as expected, allowing me to touch my hate really fast.
However, I was sometimes out of colored mana, so I won't cut the 3rd fecth for the quarter. Maybe the 4th Punishing fire?
Also, I'm more and more thinking of putting 1-2 Decays (Liliana, Counterbalance...) and a Needle (reliquary, Karakas, Ooze, Top...) in the SB

[gigapatrick]

Building a Fortress #13
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmktlaN7i3A)
Enjoy.

I talk a little about Choke after the match, which might be relevant to the mini-discussion we've been having on the card.

[gigapatrick]

Building a Fortress #14 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKeF0i4_m4g)

Good news, everyone! This installment showcases a matchup never before seen on Building a Fortress.

[djxstream]

Thoughts on sideboarding for a Griselbrand.

Do you keep in your punishing fires for those moments when they draw down to 2 or 1 life?

Yesterday i took out my PFs and opponent was down to 1 life and i lost. a clutch PF could of been the difference..but is it worth the slots for those slim opportunities?

[barcode]

Thoughts on sideboarding for a Griselbrand.

Do you keep in your punishing fires for those moments when they draw down to 2 or 1 life?

Yesterday i took out my PFs and opponent was down to 1 life and i lost. a clutch PF could of been the difference..but is it worth the slots for those slim opportunities?

The matchup is more informative than simply one threat in it. What matchup are you having problems with?

[Dice_Box]

You have to balance it out. In that match what has more impact, a Punishing Fire or a Pithing Needle? In the end, that's the choice your making. The deck is already tuned to a knife edge, there is not really that many places to make cuts.

Went 3-1 tonight losing to Imperial Taxes with Magus of the Moon as a Recruiter target. Mother made killing it hard. Ouch if that becomes a thing.

[djxstream]

The matchup is more informative than simply one threat in it. What matchup are you having problems with?

Last night was vs Sneak and Show but I've had this also happen vs reanimator.



You have to balance it out. In that match what has more impact, a Punishing Fire or a Pithing Needle? In the end, that's the choice your making. The deck is already tuned to a knife edge, there is not really that many places to make cuts.

I actually just today decided to take out my remaining sphere effects and make it 2 chokes 2 needles. so yeah the needles will be coming in for that matchup.

[barcode]

Went 3-1 tonight losing to Imperial Taxes with Magus of the Moon as a Recruiter target. Mother made killing it hard. Ouch if that becomes a thing.

Sadly this is becoming a thing. :( Woe is us if we have to play a f'kn Volcanic Fallout.

[gigapatrick]

Sadly this is becoming a thing. :( Woe is us if we have to play a f'kn Volcanic Fallout.

If Imperial Taxes (which should, to my mind, be called Bloody Taxes) does become a thing (as far is it ever can in a format defined by the consistency of Brainstorm), then don't we simply start putting Seismic Assault effects in our board? Even if they have two Mother of Runes out, a hand of three lands and an Assault on board means we can shock to death any creature we want. Or maybe I'm being too optimistic?

[barcode]

If Imperial Taxes (which should, to my mind, be called Bloody Taxes) does become a thing (as far is it ever can in a format defined by the consistency of Brainstorm), then don't we simply start putting Seismic Assault effects in our board? Even if they have two Mother of Runes out, a hand of three lands and an Assault on board means we can shock to death any creature we want. Or maybe I'm being too optimistic?

Maybe Seismic Assault is good enough but they'll probably Revoke it. Still, we'll see how it goes.

[UnsungHero]

Looking at some of the earlier lists of R/G lands, some players were using Primeval Titan in the sideboard. Primeval Titan seems interesting against Show and Tell. Reveal it off of Show and Tell and Grab Karakas + Another land or Depths and Stage. What other matchups were people using Primeval in?

[Crimhead]

Maybe Seismic Assault is good enough but they'll probably Revoke it. Still, we'll see how it goes.This is the best argument I've heard for a 1-1 Vortex/Assault split.

[barcode]

Looking at some of the earlier lists of R/G lands, some players were using Primeval Titan in the sideboard. Primeval Titan seems interesting against Show and Tell. Reveal it off of Show and Tell and Grab Karakas + Another land or Depths and Stage. What other matchups were people using Primeval in?

I was using Titan in matches where I expected graveyard hate. Having a win condition outside of relying on the graveyard for an engine is useful. Titan is also good against midrange decks since fetching up your win condition is very powerful and they have no good way to answer it. If fewer people are playing Omniscience then Titan is a good card to put in with Show and tell, otherwise you really need to put Trinisphere into play to not lose immediately.

[Admiral Nobeard]

This is the best argument I've heard for a 1-1 Vortex/Assault split.

I've usually found that working with one main and one side works. I just started playing Lands, but I've noticed that one is always good to have, and it can be cheeky fun to use one main deck and the other side, then switch them out G2 if you know or think they have Revoker or Needle. If not and it's an aggro matchup, I just jam both for funsies.


I was using Titan in matches where I expected graveyard hate. Having a win condition outside of relying on the graveyard for an engine is useful. Titan is also good against midrange decks since fetching up your win condition is very powerful and they have no good way to answer it.

Would that be a good reason to consider playing Inferno Titan as well? I've thought about adding him over Prime Time simply for the extra burn per swing, but also because a large part of my meta runs Blood Moon.

[barcode]

Would that be a good reason to consider playing Inferno Titan as well? I've thought about adding him over Prime Time simply for the extra burn per swing, but also because a large part of my meta runs Blood Moon.

I have thought about this as well and it may be a very powerful sideboard card is Blood Moon effects really take off. Inferno Titan isn't as objectively powerful as Primeval Titan (getting utility lands is better than a random lightning bolt). However after board we'll only be getting mountains under Blood Moon so maybe Inferno Titan is better (especially if it kills a Mother of Runes and Magus of the Moon). But there's also real value in getting 2 dead cards out of the library (draw to K-Grip?) and smashing for 6 every turn, too with Primeval Titan.

Primeval is more powerful than Inferno but Inferno is easier to cast under a Blood Moon. Both are relatively quick clocks, but Inferno can be chump blocked effectively.

[Admiral_Arzar]

I have thought about this as well and it may be a very powerful sideboard card is Blood Moon effects really take off. Inferno Titan isn't as objectively powerful as Primeval Titan (getting utility lands is better than a random lightning bolt). However after board we'll only be getting mountains under Blood Moon so maybe Inferno Titan is better (especially if it kills a Mother of Runes and Magus of the Moon). But there's also real value in getting 2 dead cards out of the library (draw to K-Grip?) and smashing for 6 every turn, too with Primeval Titan.

Primeval is more powerful than Inferno but Inferno is easier to cast under a Blood Moon. Both are relatively quick clocks, but Inferno can be chump blocked effectively.

I've played Inferno Titan in mono-red Sneak before. He is an extremely fast clock (especially under a moon). Note that he is actually absurdly difficult to chump block, as you can just arc lightning all the chumps when he declares attacks. I mean, they can chump him with Goyf or Angler but if they're doing that you're winning anyway.

[Admiral Nobeard]

I've played Inferno Titan in mono-red Sneak before. He is an extremely fast clock (especially under a moon). Note that he is actually absurdly difficult to chump block, as you can just arc lightning all the chumps when he declares attacks. I mean, they can chump him with Goyf or Angler but if they're doing that you're winning anyway.

The only problem is if you face down a double Mom or the more recent Imperial RW Taxes where Inferno Titan can't kill the chumps with protection and then gets blocked completely with a pro-red dood. But still, sending a bolt upstairs every swing is pretty good if you need to.

[snorlaxcom]

I've played Inferno Titan in mono-red Sneak before. He is an extremely fast clock (especially under a moon). Note that he is actually absurdly difficult to chump block, as you can just arc lightning all the chumps when he declares attacks. I mean, they can chump him with Goyf or Angler but if they're doing that you're winning anyway.

Not applicable to decks with Goyf or Angler because they have shit manabases, so Titan isn't needed here like the wincon in Big Red (these decks don't run moon effects so I don't see the comparison trying to be made). If moon decks are the issue just side in grips and add sudden shock for magus. Helps if spellskite is onboard.


The only problem is if you face down a double Mom or the more recent Imperial RW Taxes where Inferno Titan can't kill the chumps with protection and then gets blocked completely with a pro-red dood. But still, sending a bolt upstairs every swing is pretty good if you need to.

Why would Inferno Titan be in your deck vs D&t?

[Dice_Box]

Talking about Imperial Taxes, the version that runs Magus of the Moon. Anyway, there must be better choices then that.

[snorlaxcom]

Talking about Imperial Taxes, the version that runs Magus of the Moon. Anyway, there must be better choices then that.

I know what is, but Titan sounds like a horrible way to play into their strategy. You could run flamejab/sudden shock for magus and friends because they get around revokers and ratchet bombs. Pfire on their eot to run them out of mom activations goes a long way, too.

[Croprot]

Talking about Imperial Taxes, the version that runs Magus of the Moon. Anyway, there must be better choices then that.

So I didn't do a tournament report for it but I played at the Somerset IQ and I saw this deck several times throughout the day and then I actually had a privilege to play against it. I beat the guy 2-0 with minimal issues. The deck seems to me at least to be just strictly worse than DnT. They run fetch lands which takes away from the fact that DnT will never eat it's own life. They run so many more non basics for the sake of being able to use cavern of souls and plateaus which make them super susceptible to wasteland while still running Thalia effects. Being susceptible to mana denial while playing Thalia was so damning for my opponent in our first game. Game one I turn 2 made a 20/20 after he put Thalia on the table and I was able to wasteland his white source as he used a plateau to cast her with a cavern. Game 2 he died to recurring punishing fire lock with a Trinisphere out. In game two he scooped to an unresolved crop rotation (I didn't even get far enough to choose a land to sacrifice). Punishing fire is adequate at killing their creatures in my opinion but at the time I was running 4 of them so I saw them quite frequently so if there are not 4 in the 75 I can understand a worry. They seem to have problems with the matchups that traditional DnT is strong against because they want to run 4 recruiters and need to augment their deck to accommodate that change. The Magus of the Moon that does the most damage to us also turns on gamble and punishing fire and makes our non mana producing lands help pay for Thalia effects. I honestly don't see this deck being relevant as Delver moves back to heavy resource management and permission and the rest of the format shifts along with it. Now that Dig is gone we are going to see way fewer fringe decks that just happened to have a good Omni tell match up. I'm actually looking forward to just beating the snot out of Delver and miracles and the occasional infect player.

[Dice_Box]

I am running 4 Fire, that's not my issue. The problem I found was when Mother becomes active you end up in a bad place. If your on a grindy game they can pull ahead thanks to Moon. Yes you can Punishing Fire them to next year, but if you don't get that Fire (or they cut Groves off) your floundering in the dark.

If you get the cards you need, sure your going to be fine. But if your slow on your start, they can really knock you for six. This build, while having a weakness to Wasteland that is unique among DnT builds, is still stronger than DnT if the game is not ended quickly.

[lordofthepit]

Why are people still running Trinisphere after Dig got restricted? More Sphere of Resistance and possibly Thorn of Amethysts are faster and more disruptive against pretty much every combo deck in the format now that Omni is dead.

[Croprot]

Why are people still running Trinisphere after Dig got restricted? More Sphere of Resistance and possibly Thorn of Amethysts are faster and more disruptive against pretty much every combo deck in the format now that Omni is dead.

I have an irrational fear of echoing truth lol. Also Trinisphere does a lot of work against miracles when they can't afford to spend too much mana on cantrips. I run 3 and 3. It also doesn't increase the cost on our krosan grips which I see as huge in some match ups.

[barcode]

Why are people still running Trinisphere after Dig got restricted? More Sphere of Resistance and possibly Thorn of Amethysts are faster and more disruptive against pretty much every combo deck in the format now that Omni is dead.

Trinisphere is the best sphere unless you're playing against exactly storm. Making our answers cost more can cost the match.

[Djehuti]

I know what is, but Titan sounds like a horrible way to play into their strategy. You could run flamejab/sudden shock for magus and friends because they get around revokers and ratchet bombs. Pfire on their eot to run them out of mom activations goes a long way, too.

I wish flamejab was instant, but I still like your idea. Especially if meddling mage starts popping up :)

[Croprot]

Trinisphere is the best sphere unless you're playing against exactly storm. Making our answers cost more can cost the match.

Why do you say It not good against storm? It completely nullifies dark rit and their petals and led. The only answer I really see being relevant is crop rotation which would cost 2 as opposed to 3 with SoR out.

[Chatto]

I like SoR over 3Ball, because of the cmc: three cmc can, and will be too much. Yes, it will be will be good when you get the chance to cast it.

3Ball is good, but four 3Ball is probably not what I want in this new meta.

[barcode]

Why do you say It not good against storm? It completely nullifies dark rit and their petals and led. The only answer I really see being relevant is crop rotation which would cost 2 as opposed to 3 with SoR out.

Read it again, friend. :)

If I'm playing against Storm (or burn, I guess) I would rather have Sphere of Resistance so I can play it on turn 1. It's not likely to resolve Trinisphere early enough for it to matter.

Against decks which deploy threats early (like Delver) Trinisphere is awful because it makes our two-mana answers cost three. I would rather have Chalice of the Void for the "cheap threat" decks - for that matter, I'd rather have Chalice of the Void for Storm than Trinisphere.

[gigapatrick]

I talk a little bit about why to play Trinisphere over Thorn of Amethyst here.

Building a Fortress #15 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMAaUsGe2To)

That said, I'm not convinced, if Storm becomes ubiquitous, that Trinisphere should be in the board over Thorn (and I'm not sure more than one Chalice should be in the board at all).

[Croprot]

Read it again, friend. :)

If I'm playing against Storm (or burn, I guess) I would rather have Sphere of Resistance so I can play it on turn 1. It's not likely to resolve Trinisphere early enough for it to matter.

Against decks which deploy threats early (like Delver) Trinisphere is awful because it makes our two-mana answers cost three. I would rather have Chalice of the Void for the "cheap threat" decks - for that matter, I'd rather have Chalice of the Void for Storm than Trinisphere.

Burn and storm have a huge problem with Trinisphere because their "free" (fireblast, rift bolt, Lotus petal, LED) spells cost 3 and not 1. I've been stormed out through Chalice and sphere of resistance but never through a Trinisphere. No matter what sphere we play our 2 mana answered are going to cost 3 or more if we start stacking the spheres. Also Trinisphere is amazing against Delver as they will almost never be able to cast any of their cheap spells efficiently and they will almost never have the 3 mana up to actually cast force of will which is the only good counter they have post board. I don't like Chalice because it negates our ability to answer with crop rotation and if we drop it too early we are unable to play moxen. I'm on a 3-3 split of spheres and Trinisphere right now and I think those numbers are fine. Trinisphere makes the cheap decks so inefficient and clunky. The only match ups that I don't absolutely love Trinisphere in is a deathrite deck but that's because I can't wasteland a deathrite shaman and the Belcher/oops all spells decks because they are turn one decks.

[Admiral Nobeard]

I talk a little bit about why to play Trinisphere over Thorn of Amethyst here.

Building a Fortress #15 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMAaUsGe2To)

That said, I'm not convinced, if Storm becomes ubiquitous, that Trinisphere should be in the board over Thorn (and I'm not sure more than one Chalice should be in the board at all).

That said, would Thorn be better than SoR, and would 3Sphere be the better option to play over both? Right now I'm running a full set of Thorn in my side, but I'm thinking of going to Sphere because I and most other legacy decks usually run mainly non-creatures with the exception being Goblins and D&T. In my main, I currently have two 3Sphere, but I've been using Crucible more often than not games 2 and 3 over 3Sphere. Usually, playing out of my graveyard has been better once I empty my hand, but this also allows for a bigger blowout with GY hate.


Burn and storm have a huge problem with Trinisphere because their "free" (fireblast, rift bolt, Lotus petal, LED) spells cost 3 and not 1. I've been stormed out through Chalice and sphere of resistance but never through a Trinisphere. No matter what sphere we play our 2 mana answered are going to cost 3 or more if we start stacking the spheres. Also Trinisphere is amazing against Delver as they will almost never be able to cast any of their cheap spells efficiently and they will almost never have the 3 mana up to actually cast force of will which is the only good counter they have post board.

So would it be worth it to play 3Sphere over Thorn or SoR even though it may come down later? I'd think you'd have to have it turn two or three to be effective or not be dead against TES or No Land Scoop.

[barcode]

Burn and storm have a huge problem with Trinisphere because their "free" (fireblast, rift bolt, Lotus petal, LED) spells cost 3 and not 1. I've been stormed out through Chalice and sphere of resistance but never through a Trinisphere. No matter what sphere we play our 2 mana answered are going to cost 3 or more if we start stacking the spheres. Also Trinisphere is amazing against Delver as they will almost never be able to cast any of their cheap spells efficiently and they will almost never have the 3 mana up to actually cast force of will which is the only good counter they have post board. I don't like Chalice because it negates our ability to answer with crop rotation and if we drop it too early we are unable to play moxen. I'm on a 3-3 split of spheres and Trinisphere right now and I think those numbers are fine. Trinisphere makes the cheap decks so inefficient and clunky. The only match ups that I don't absolutely love Trinisphere in is a deathrite deck but that's because I can't wasteland a deathrite shaman and the Belcher/oops all spells decks because they are turn one decks.

I play Chalice on 0, not 1. Storm must play a LED or really contort their gameplay for Infernal Tutor to resolve. I agree, however, that Trinisphere is hard for storm to beat but I don't think it's reasonable to cast it before you're dead. Burn can't beat a single Sphere of Resistance (to say nothing of Trinisphere). That is a match where I would rather have cheaper spells since port is effective with a sphere.

[Nikolai004]

That said, would Thorn be better than SoR, and would 3Sphere be the better option to play over both? Right now I'm running a full set of Thorn in my side, but I'm thinking of going to Sphere because I and most other legacy decks usually run mainly non-creatures with the exception being Goblins and D&T. In my main, I currently have two 3Sphere, but I've been using Crucible more often than not games 2 and 3 over 3Sphere. Usually, playing out of my graveyard has been better once I empty my hand, but this also allows for a bigger blowout with GY hate.


So would it be worth it to play 3Sphere over Thorn or SoR even though it may come down later? I'd think you'd have to have it turn two or three to be effective or not be dead against TES or No Land Scoop.

For our deck, Thorn is strictly worse than Sphere. Both affect us the same but Thorn doesn't affect their creatures at all. Why hamper us more? Even if most of their deck is non-creature I'd rather them pay that extra 1 for their young pyromancers, delvers, etc.

The question between 3sphere and sphere comes down to the meta. If we see an uptick of combo decks like storm then sphere is better because it comes down sooner and that's important. Previously Revokers would show up in the side to turn off the artifact mana and that could see play again.

[Admiral Nobeard]

The question between 3sphere and sphere comes down to the meta. If we see an uptick of combo decks like storm then sphere is better because it comes down sooner and that's important. Previously Revokers would show up in the side to turn off the artifact mana and that could see play again.

So do you think that storm will see a comback?

[Dice_Box]

It never really went away.

[barcode]

Is it true that the Pacific Northwest part of the US is combo heavy? I've heard that said but I don't know if it's true. The Northeast is pretty control heavy.

[Dice_Box]

BTW. Someone stuck this in front of me this week. I have started now, I think I want to finish it. How many of you have really nice decks?

https://photos-2.dropbox.com/t/2/AADjI7faXt0R1S55Jy45xLT72v0cWGiOWgceSNoLhMxJNg/12/157687413/jpeg/1024x768/3/1444413600/0/2/20151010_021107.jpg/CPW8mEsgASACIAMgBiAHKAE/r1Tl_9g9L5vQW7LLe-GRkxuzhWUDsMZ4jXnD60GchuY

[Croprot]

BTW. Someone stuck this in front of me this week. I have started now, I think I want to finish it. How many of you have really nice decks?

https://photos-2.dropbox.com/t/2/AADjI7faXt0R1S55Jy45xLT72v0cWGiOWgceSNoLhMxJNg/12/157687413/jpeg/1024x768/3/1444413600/0/2/20151010_021107.jpg/CPW8mEsgASACIAMgBiAHKAE/r1Tl_9g9L5vQW7LLe-GRkxuzhWUDsMZ4jXnD60GchuY
No picture but I have 4 Japanese ports, an English tabernacle, judge karakas, Japanese verdant catacombs, 3 German foil Trinisphere, foil unhinged Forest, 3 ftv Maze of ith, 2 Japanese and 2 Russian pfire and ftv boseiju. I'm working on getting German wastelands but right now I have a Japanese wasteland. Other than that my deck is pretty normal. I'm not looking to foil out but I am looking to foreign out with the exception of when the cards are more valuable in English. My vintage dredge deck is almost all Japanese or Russian.

[UnsungHero]

BTW. Someone stuck this in front of me this week. I have started now, I think I want to finish it. How many of you have really nice decks?

The majority of my deck is all non-foil japanese + Guru Forest as my basic. Just need Depths, Wastes, Groves, Diamonds to be Japanese. Its been a fun project that has been acquired through alot of searches and trading.

[Admiral_Arzar]

My Lands list is basically all Japanese non-foil. Tabernacle of course is English, and there's a couple random German/Russian cards scattered about (Glacial Chasm isn't available in Japanese, so German it is).

EDIT: My last RUGx Lands list was posted here: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?4607-DO-NOT-TRY-TO-SELL-IN-HERE-Pimp-Legacy-Decks&p=833629&viewfull=1#post833629

That was before I found any Japanese Dark Depths though. AFAIK I've never taken a picture of my R/G list.

[Layalouhamesh]

BTW. Someone stuck this in front of me this week. I have started now, I think I want to finish it. How many of you have really nice decks?

https://photos-2.dropbox.com/t/2/AADjI7faXt0R1S55Jy45xLT72v0cWGiOWgceSNoLhMxJNg/12/157687413/jpeg/1024x768/3/1444413600/0/2/20151010_021107.jpg/CPW8mEsgASACIAMgBiAHKAE/r1Tl_9g9L5vQW7LLe-GRkxuzhWUDsMZ4jXnD60GchuY

Pretty proud of mine. I wanted every card to be in non-foil US 1st edition out, and nearly managed to to it (needle and chalice still in French) :)
I made an exception for the basic forest though. Here are some pics (deck (http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/140427IMAG1780.jpg), sb (http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/902715IMAG1781.jpg), details (http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/183632IMAG1779.jpg)), sorry for the quality

[barcode]

BTW. Someone stuck this in front of me this week. I have started now, I think I want to finish it. How many of you have really nice decks?

https://photos-2.dropbox.com/t/2/AADjI7faXt0R1S55Jy45xLT72v0cWGiOWgceSNoLhMxJNg/12/157687413/jpeg/1024x768/3/1444413600/0/2/20151010_021107.jpg/CPW8mEsgASACIAMgBiAHKAE/r1Tl_9g9L5vQW7LLe-GRkxuzhWUDsMZ4jXnD60GchuY

Also no image here. I don't pimp my Legacy decks -- Vintage gets the pimp. However, my Lands deck has 4 Japanese ports (purchased as a set for ~$100 many years ago), English Tabernacle and Karakas. Korean 4th edition Forest (of course). One Korean Thespian's Stage.

I've thought about going nuts with the deck but I want to finish foiling Vintage Dredge first (current build missing foils of 1 JU Cabal Therapy, 4 Petrified Field, 1 FUT Dakmor Salvage, 1 Elesh Norn, 2 M11 Leyline of the Void, and from SB 4 TSP Sudden Shock). It would be nice to pimp out Lands but foil Dark Depths are very expensive. :(

[rlesko]

RUG Lands: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?4607-DO-NOT-TRY-TO-SELL-IN-HERE-Pimp-Legacy-Decks&p=836051&viewfull=1#post836051

Note- its not mine.

[Bikapa]

277278279280


In answer to dice_box question, this is my first time posting here although I have been playing with lands ever since the legend ruling changed last year. Currently on a project of japanese foiling up my deck (some stuff which are on the way in the post are 4 rishadan ports jpn foil, 2 verdant catacombs jpn foil). Sadly, I couldnt find any decently priced darksteel foil trinispheres or english/japanese foil chokes so ftv trinisphere and german choke foils have to suffice for the moment, I also only own 3 dark depths, was looking for the 4th but debating whether it should go into the sideboard as I draw it pretty frequently >.< I usually pimp out my legacy decks as I have sold off my vintage decks due to them sitting at home rotting because there is no vintage in the area that I live in. If anyone have any japanese foils for lands do let me know though :p

[Brendelton]

What is wrong with people? Go talk about your foil pokemon cards somewhere appropriate (format: standard). I come to read and discuss a fun mtg deck called lands. I am not the greatest player but I learn a lot from people on this forum and love advise and reading others strategy. I do have an ice age mountain goat, no big deal.

[gigapatrick]

On the subject of pimping out one's deck:

The only way to do so is in this order:

Old frame
Black border
Original printing
Native language over foreign
Foils suck

So basically this order means:

Play judge foil promo crucible of worlds over fifth dawn crucible because it is the old frame even though foils suck. Play foreign black border Taigas over revised because black border is more important. Obviously play alpha if you can but that costs a billion dollars. If you're French or German or Italian then you're in luck because the fbb duals are in your native tongue. Otherwise play original printing and don't act like your kanji or idiogram cards, or your judge foil New frame Ports, are cooler than good old fashioned original printing mercadian masques.

[djxstream]

Been playing some elves brewers who have a new NO target when the hoof can't go lethal that I can't seem to deal with...any input?

Elderscale Wurm (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=249703)

[barcode]

Been playing some elves brewers who have a new NO target when the hoof can't go lethal that I can't seem to deal with...any input?

Elderscale Wurm (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=249703)

Maze of Ith and try to kill the Wurm with Punishing Fire? Force them to destroy it with Tabernacle by destroying their lands?

[Dice_Box]

Elves is a deck you can lock out with Chasm. Get the lock going and you can kill it once you have the Mana going for fire. Also if you have the lock going do not kill anything on their board as to not feed Ooze. Hit the Wurm and then hit them.

[Nikolai004]

BTW. Someone stuck this in front of me this week. I have started now, I think I want to finish it. How many of you have really nice decks?

https://photos-2.dropbox.com/t/2/AADjI7faXt0R1S55Jy45xLT72v0cWGiOWgceSNoLhMxJNg/12/157687413/jpeg/1024x768/3/1444413600/0/2/20151010_021107.jpg/CPW8mEsgASACIAMgBiAHKAE/r1Tl_9g9L5vQW7LLe-GRkxuzhWUDsMZ4jXnD60GchuY

All of the deck and SB are foil with originals where possible. Foil judge Promo Wasteland(Original art), 1 Foil german port, 2 signed Foil Dark depths, 2 foil german punishing fires, foil snow-covered german forest, 2 german manabonds. Working on getting 3 of the green expedition fetchlands to replace the foil khans windswept and wooded, eventually I need to get the promo Mazes to replace the Vault version.

[Chatto]

On the subject of pimping out one's deck:

The only way to do so is in this order:

Old frame
Black border
Original printing
Native language over foreign
Foils suck

So basically this order means:

Play judge foil promo crucible of worlds over fifth dawn crucible because it is the old frame even though foils suck. Play foreign black border Taigas over revised because black border is more important. Obviously play alpha if you can but that costs a billion dollars. If you're French or German or Italian then you're in luck because the fbb duals are in your native tongue. Otherwise play original printing and don't act like your kanji or idiogram cards, or your judge foil New frame Ports, are cooler than good old fashioned original printing mercadian masques.

+ 1

I really don't like foil. Currently only searching for fbb Duals, because right now Beta is just to expensive. Just need to save up the cash or sell some stuff I'm not using. Only thing is I really don't like selling my cards...

EDIT: I do find it pretty sweet to see foil-out pimped decks, but it's just not for me :-)

[Brendelton]

I have a foil ice age mountain goat. I play it main board because of blood moon. No one can stop the goat.
Also they have a Pimp (format: standard) thread on this site, why are people trying to compare the sizes of their male appendage on this forum?

[djxstream]

Maze of Ith and try to kill the Wurm with Punishing Fire? Force them to destroy it with Tabernacle by destroying their lands?


Elves is a deck you can lock out with Chasm. Get the lock going and you can kill it once you have the Mana going for fire. Also if you have the lock going do not kill anything on their board as to not feed Ooze. Hit the Wurm and then hit them.

you both realize the changes elderscale does to the players life total? i'm not being attacked by it...its just sitting there keeping their life @ 7. and with a bunch of forests, and mana producing creatuers, the recycling ghost quarter / tabernalce is a hard plan to pull off.

Puninshing firing down a 7/7 is tough work too

[Chatto]

@ Djxstream: looks like a Tabernacle/ Waste-lock is one of the better choices. An early Tabernacle can really do some serious work, between mana-denial and creature-kill. Still, it's looks like a beating. I have the pleasure to have never encounter that Worm.

@ Brendelton: we like to show off, and where better showing your pimped RGCL-deck than here where all the RGCL-adepts are? I really don't mind. If I'm not mistaken Gigapatrick has Beta Duals, and Dice and Barcode have some sweet stuff as well. I like when people show their pimp-progress from time to time: it shows the amount of dedication of RGCL-players, and Legacy-players in general.

[barcode]

I have a foil ice age mountain goat. I play it main board because of blood moon. No one can stop the goat.
Also they have a Pimp (format: standard) thread on this site, why are people trying to compare the sizes of their male appendage on this forum?

I don't think you're going to have a good time on this website. Whatever you do please avoid the 800+ page pimp thread! It might push you over the edge!!

[gigapatrick]

If I'm not mistaken Gigapatrick has Beta Duals.

I wish! My two Taigas are FBB German, which is pretty cool but not as cool as Beta.

Also, totally forgot to post a link to

Building a Fortress #16 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNOOhZHve_0)

The meta online has changed dramatically since the Dig ban. I've played off-camera against Infect, Goblin Stompy, Esper Stoneblade, Death and Taxes, Imperial Painter, and a couple of brews. I still haven't beaten Infect in a tournament match . . .

[Dice_Box]

you both realize the changes elderscale does to the players life total? i'm not being attacked by it...its just sitting there keeping their life @ 7. and with a bunch of forests, and mana producing creatuers, the recycling ghost quarter / tabernalce is a hard plan to pull off.

Puninshing firing down a 7/7 is tough work too

I understand, the point I was making is that you can buy time and build up what you need to kill it. If you delay too long they will kill you with a swarm or with the Wurm and a pair of large Ooze. Delay and then kill the Wurm is what I was suggesting. I also understand it's hard to kill, but I am at a loss for better ideas.

[snorlaxcom]

I don't think you're going to have a good time on this website. Whatever you do please avoid the 800+ page pimp thread! It might push you over the edge!!

+1 and don't click my sig.

[Brendelton]

I am wrong, my bad, maybe I am a bit jealous, it is nice to brag every once in a while. I do enjoy most every comment and learn a ton about this deck on this thread. So again sorry, and keep up R/G Lands on Decks to Beat!

[Dice_Box]

Building a Fortress #16 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNOOhZHve_0)

The meta online has changed dramatically since the Dig ban. I've played off-camera against Infect, Goblin Stompy, Esper Stoneblade, Death and Taxes, Imperial Painter, and a couple of brews. I still haven't beaten Infect in a tournament match . . .

That's fine news. Infect is fast, but very weak to Wasteland. They need to be attacking early but have a limited number of Creatures. Keeping them off Blue can stop them digging for what they need and sometimes, they don't have a fetch or basic in hand. Then you can wipe them. It's such a greedy deck.

I have been slowly picking though your videos because there is little like it online, do you ever go back to watch them and critique yourself? You have a very different play style to me and you use your Crop Rotates in a very different way. (You are far more proactive than I am.) I have also noticed sometimes you get into a mindset and can't break yourself out of it. Like the time against Delver when you crop rotated away the Stage when it was targeted by Wasteland and then grabbed a Depths with your second Rotation instead of just Rotating for a Depths with Wasteland on the stack.

Also, against decks with Surgical, it's ok to Waste your own Tranquil Thicket.

I am enjoying them though. Do keep them coming.

[gigapatrick]

I have been slowly picking though your videos because there is little like it online, do you ever go back to watch them and critique yourself? You have a very different play style to me and you use your Crop Rotates in a very different way. (You are far more proactive than I am.) I have also noticed sometimes you get into a mindset and can't break yourself out of it. Like the time against Delver when you crop rotated away the Stage when it was targeted by Wasteland and then grabbed a Depths with your second Rotation instead of just Rotating for a Depths with Wasteland on the stack.

Also, against decks with Surgical, it's ok to Waste your own Tranquil Thicket.

I am enjoying them though. Do keep them coming.


I do go back and watch them to look for mistakes, and I'm in complete agreement with you. I come up with a plan and have trouble adapting when scenarios change. That's just my personality i guess. Still i like making the videos and am glad you guys enjoy them.

[redstripe509]

"Imperial Taxes" is proving to be very problematic for me, the best option I've seen so far has been Molten Vortex, but of course they "always" have the Revoker for it. Anyone having success here?

[Nikolai004]

I do go back and watch them to look for mistakes, and I'm in complete agreement with you. I come up with a plan and have trouble adapting when scenarios change. That's just my personality i guess. Still i like making the videos and am glad you guys enjoy them.

I have a question about the #15 video, against grixis control. It was game 2, he scooped game 1 and you weren't sure what he was on and you had a wasteland in hand to put him on no lands turn two and I'm just wondering the thought process behind it. You didn't say you were even considering doing it at that point. It could be play style differences, my knowledge your opponent was on grixis, or something else entirely. My general thought is, if I can go the mana denial plan, the earlier the better, particularly against an unknown opponent and even more so if I think they're on a combo list.

[barcode]

"Imperial Taxes" is proving to be very problematic for me, the best option I've seen so far has been Molten Vortex, but of course they "always" have the Revoker for it. Anyone having success here?

Volcanic Fallout

[gigapatrick]

I have a question about the #15 video, against grixis control. It was game 2, he scooped game 1 and you weren't sure what he was on and you had a wasteland in hand to put him on no lands turn two and I'm just wondering the thought process behind it. You didn't say you were even considering doing it at that point. It could be play style differences, my knowledge your opponent was on grixis, or something else entirely. My general thought is, if I can go the mana denial plan, the earlier the better, particularly against an unknown opponent and even more so if I think they're on a combo list.

I think clearly I should have aggressively gone after his land with Wasteland, but at that point I was still thinking he was on Storm and decided it would be better to keep Crop Rote for the combo. By the time he missed his second land drop, I absolutely should have Wasted him.

[barcode]

Top 8'd a small 34 player 1k in town. It was a weird meta with two pox decks, two or three lands variants, 12 post...

I went 4-0 and then had an unintentional/intentional draw with the BG loam pox deck in round 5 then took an ID to clinch 1st seed. Top 8 I'm paired against the 12 post guy. sigh. He has Needle both games and the damn glimmerpost to gain life. Having Ghost Quarter gave me an out for game 1 to GQ a Glacial Chasm so I could smack him for 20.

BG pox is not a good time. Between multiple Leylines in the board and main deck Chalice of the Voids is real bad. edit: I forgot to mention the 3 Ensnaring Bridges.

[door]

I play wb taigas and wb forest. They are much easier to find in full bb deck and helps a lot to save time while fetching. Very important in some long grindy matches. Also my forest is Summer :tongue:

[Dice_Box]

I am thinking I am going to get any card I can't Foil altered. I like the idea of full art Taigas.

Summer is cool, but sadly so often overlooked. They don't get quite the same reaction as Guru lands.

Think I will get the Judge Foil as a basic. I like it.

[Admiral Nobeard]

This last weekend, one of my LGS' decided to run a for-fun legacy tournament to see what the demand is for local legacy. Five dollars to enter, and winner got store credit for however many people entered (it ended up being around 8 people only). Also, each deck was allowed 10 starting proxies, and each proxy after that added $0.50 to your entry fee. Because of the proxy rule, I decided to try out Lands since it's not finished yet, but here's the list I ran with:

4 Rishadan Port
4 Wasteland
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Windswept Heath
1 Tranquil Thicket
3 Taiga
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Snow-Covered Forest
3 Maze of Ith
4 Thespian Stage
2 Dark Depths
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Bojuka Bog
4 Mox Diamond
4 Life From the Loam
4 Crop Rotation
4 Exploration
2 Crucible of Worlds
4 Punishing Fire
4 Gamble

Sideboard:
4 Sphere of Resistance
2 Trinisphere
3 Krosan Grip
2 Dark Depths
2 Manabond
2 Ensnaring Bridge

R1,G1: I'm paired against regular Dredge on the play with a good start of Taiga, Exploration, Wasteland. He goes Gemstone, Faithless, discard two Grave-Trolls, drop LED, and drops a quarter of his deck in the yard. I land Grove and Maze, then pass. He drops six more in the yard and attempts to Dread Return the new Ulamog, but I Crop Rotation my Maze into Bog. He tries to later recover, but die to Marit Lage
G2: He Goes first and drops land, LED, Breakthrough for 0, Flashes back Faithless Looting, dredges for 12, flips over 2 Narcs. I land Taiga and Mox Diamond, then play Loam to get my land back. He unearths two Ichorids, dredges 6 beats me for 8, tries to Cabal Therapy my hand and sees lands, and gets 3 zombie tokens from Bridge. I later die before I can save myself.
G3: I land Grove and Mox, play Sphere of Resistance. He lands Mine and passes. I drop Wasteland, kill the Mine and play Exploration, playing Port as well. He plays nothing and discards Stinkweed. I Gamble for Loam, discard it and pass. I eventually grind him out with Wasteland lock so he can't play anything through the Sphere and smack with Marit Lage.

R2,G1: I face against Mr. Toad's Wild Ride (Fluctuator combo; I didn't know this deck was real). I go first and fetch Taiga, Exploration, Wasteland. He lands Crystal Vein, drops Fluctuator, and cycles through his entire deck, drops Laboratory Maniac, and wins.
G2: I mull and hope to open a turn one Sphere of Resistance. I don't open with one or draw one and he goes off turn 2. At this point I don't know whether to be frightened or amused.

R3,G1: Facing Punishing Jund this round. He Leads with a Dark Rit into Thoughtseize into Bob, taking my Mox Diamond. I draw into Maze and land it immediately. He Hymns me and tries to swing in, but gets Maze'd. I drop a Grove and pass back. He lands Tarmogoyf and Bob gets Maze'd again. I Gamble and find Loam, discarding Mox. He beats me down with Bob, me Mazing Goyf for a few turns while I loam to nuke his lands with Wasteland. I land Tabernacle and he eventually keeps a Goyf alive with a basic land while I Maze it. But, I'm at a low life, so he eventually draws a bolt and kills me.
G2: I open with Taiga, Exploration, Wasteland and pass. He Thoughtseizes me, takes my Crop Rotation and I Waste his Bayou eot. I drop Grove and play Loam. He can't keep up with the Wasteland Lock and loses.
G3: He lands and passes, I land Taiga, Mox, and Manabond, dropping in Ghost Quarter and Port, discarding 2 Punishing Fire. I port his land on upkeep and Ghost Quarter the Badlands he plays at eot. We sit there and stare at each other for a few turns while I draw into nothing while I keep one of two of his lands Ported. I eventually draw into Crucible and proceed to Ghost Quarter lock him out while Punishing Fire/Grove pings him to concession.

I ended up going 2-1 overall, so not bad for a small tournament with only 3 rounds. I still wish I could have had more chances to play and more decks to play against.

[gigapatrick]

Building a Fortress #17 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SPvE6gXr9s&index=16&list=PLnKd4zx_gmR4plZ4cgopTDynggjop5awh)

Again, a matchup we haven't seen before.

[Admiral_Arzar]

I won an IQ over the weekend with this deck. Event was 5 rounds, cut to top 4. List was as follows:

Maindeck
4 Mox Diamond
3 Crop Rotation
4 Exploration
4 Gamble
2 Manabond
4 Life from the Loam
4 Punishing Fire

1 Forest
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Karakas
1 Misty Rainforest
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Tranquil Thicket
1 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
4 Dark Depths
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
3 Maze of Ith
4 Rishadan Port
3 Taiga
4 Thespian's Stage
4 Wasteland

Sideboard
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 Chalice of the Void
4 Sphere of Resistance
2 Choke
4 Krosan Grip
2 Trinisphere

Round 1: Grixis Delver. These games go pretty much how you'd expect. Wastelands, Punishing Fires, Maze on angler, and then a big flying tentacle monster. 2-0

Round 2: MUD. Game one I have immediate Wastelock and my opponent concedes. Game two I mull to five and don't have the answer to Metalworker. Ugin resolves and I get spaffed on by his ult a few turns later. Game 3 I once again have mana denial en masse, followed by a Marit Lage. 2-1

Round 3: Shardless BUG. Game one I have a fast Marit Lage and get there. Game two my opponent is land light and I resolve a Choke. Ports are followed by a Marit Lage. 2-0

Round 4: Shardless BUG. ID with a buddy of mine.

Round 5: 4-color Miracles. This monstrosity was assembled the day before the tournament by another friend of mine. It turns out that Miracles with the addition of Deathrite Shaman is actually horrendous for Lands. I get locked out by Counter-top + Deathrite both games (and Marit Lage gets STP'd off of Deathrite mana after I deal with all his other white sources), no Krosan Grips in sight game 2. 0-2

I go into top 4 as first seed. Quarterfinals I play against my Shardless opponent from round 3. I lose game one after a Grindfest in which I am unable to resolve acceleration and Wasteland stops my first attempt at Marit Lage. After a Lili ult I am unable to attempt another one. I win games two and three with mana denial and Marit Lage as usual. I may have had a Choke in one of these games as well. 2-1

My buddy on Shardless defeated MUD in the other Quarterfinals match, so I play against Shardless for the 4th time today. We split prizes and then play for the invitation. Game one he Forces my Crop Rotation for Stage, but I end up getting there eventually. Game two I have Krosan Grip for his Pithing Needle on Stage, and that's all she wrote. In case anyone was wondering, our Shardless matchup is amazing.

[Admiral Nobeard]

Building a Fortress #17 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SPvE6gXr9s&index=16&list=PLnKd4zx_gmR4plZ4cgopTDynggjop5awh)

Again, a matchup we haven't seen before.

This seems more like just a typical stoneblade list, but with more counters than normal. I'm not sure you got a fair experience of the deck though, what with him giving up both times.

[gigapatrick]

This seems more like just a typical stoneblade list, but with more counters than normal. I'm not sure you got a fair experience of the deck though, what with him giving up both times.

Agreed. I think he definitely conceded way too early game one (though it looked very good for me game two). The huge amount of counterspells he had made me think he was on Landstill.

In any case,

Building a Fortress #18. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOFA_rc08Yw&list=PLnKd4zx_gmR4plZ4cgopTDynggjop5awh&index=18)

A matchup we've seen lots of times.

[Croprot]

Agreed. I think he definitely conceded way too early game one (though it looked very good for me game two). The huge amount of counterspells he had made me think he was on Landstill.

In any case,

Building a Fortress #18. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOFA_rc08Yw&list=PLnKd4zx_gmR4plZ4cgopTDynggjop5awh&index=18)

A matchup we've seen lots of times.

I'm curious as to why you place the value of mana production of Bojuka bog over Maze of ith utility. Maze seems to be still an exceedingly valuable card in the match up against everything but progenitus. I've never sided it out in the match up and I'd like to know your experience with that strategy.

[Cfetchcaviar]

First time poster, long time lurker. I got into magic a year ago and immediately fell in love with lands. I think it celebrates some of the best strategies in magic with some really great flair. I 4-0'd my last LGS event the other day and thought i would share my results. we fired with nine people, i was expecting thirteen+ :cry: My meta is pretty diverse with a slightly larger population of miracles.

Round One (UWR Blade): I'm on the draw and he leads with fetch->ponder I play a verdant catacombs into the basic Forest->exploration, it resolves, i follow up with a mox + stage and loam. The game becomes grindy but i am able to overwhelm the board with worm tokens and he concedes.
Game Two: See game one 2-0

Round Two (Miracles): I'm playing a dear friend this time and i know what he's on. I'm on the play and land T1 exporation, with Boseiju following up the first land. I have a lot of trouble with legends miracles but was able to get there with a witch and no swords.
Game Two: I Bring in the hate and was able to land an early exploration with ports. I kept his mana off balance for a few turns and landed a Boseiju->Boil on turn 5. 2-0

Round Three (Aluren): Unhinged the bronze gates of hell with qhostquarter lock on turn one. He kept all 3 of his basics in his opener.
Game Two: I gamble early for a sphere of resistance, then establish wastelock. I don't think it was a good match up for him. 2-0

Round Four (Sneak and hack): Another dear friend is playing. I had a hunch he was on sneak and show since he was previously playing omnishit. I have the nuts hand and try to stick manabond, he forces it pitching ponder. He draws and plays lotus petal, lotus petal, land show and tell->Emrakul i put in karakas bouncing it back before combat next turn. i don't draw any steam and he ends up landing sneak attack and annihilates me.
Game Two: I keep a greedy hand with the combo, some hate, and a rotation. I play a thicket and a chalice on 0 and pass. I assemble the combo a turn later and get there.
Game 3: He passes the turn back after cantriping, I cast exploration and it sticks, he casts another cantrip and passes, i assemble the combo and pass, on his turn he casts show and tell, I respond by making a witch in fear of him showing Bloodmoon. He doesn't, and plops down an exposed Emrakul which i bounce with the Karakas i showed into play. I will improve my posts the more i play. will try and get another one this weekend.

[gigapatrick]

I'm curious as to why you place the value of mana production of Bojuka bog over Maze of ith utility. Maze seems to be still an exceedingly valuable card in the match up against everything but progenitus. I've never sided it out in the match up and I'd like to know your experience with that strategy.

The mana production isn't that important either; it's just that mana production seems better than Maze of Ith, which doesn't stop Elves from going wide with a bunch of little dudes, nor does it hose Deathrite Shaman, nor does it have a whole lot of utility against a Craterhoof alpha strike. I suppose in this last scenario it could make the math a little harder for the Elves player, since they'll get to attack with one less giant dude, but the Maze still seems like it has little to no value in the matchup. However, this has only been my experience. What's been yours?

[Dice_Box]

I would stick with Maze. While your views on when it's bad hold true, it's good if you are Punishing Fire locking them and they Natural Order for a big answer. Ruric Thar, Wurm, even a lone Hoof. In this case it's good to have an answer. The other use is you can delay a chipping of your life. Another way Elves wins sometimes.

Elves, so easy to stop yet sometimes, very unstoppable.

[Sibelius]

Current deck 60 cards
26 spells
Lands
3 fetch
3 depths
1 Ghost quater
1 Karakas

Sideboard
4 Grip
4 Sphere of resistance
2 Chalice
1 Bog
1 Boseiju
1 Tomb
2 Choke

Thoughts on this board? Only real thing I'm concerned about is getting meddling mage locked vs shardless.
My board is slightly optimised towards Storm

Sib

[barcode]

First time poster, long time lurker. I got into magic a year ago and immediately fell in love with lands. I think it celebrates some of the best strategies in magic with some really great flair. I 4-0'd my last LGS event the other day and thought i would share my results. we fired with nine people, i was expecting thirteen+ :cry: My meta is pretty diverse with a slightly larger population of miracles.

Round One (UWR Blade): I'm on the draw and he leads with fetch->ponder I play a verdant catacombs into the basic Forest->exploration, it resolves, i follow up with a mox + stage and loam. The game becomes grindy but i am able to overwhelm the board with worm tokens and he concedes.
Game Two: See game one 2-0

Round Two (Miracles): I'm playing a dear friend this time and i know what he's on. I'm on the play and land T1 exporation, with Boseiju following up the first land. I have a lot of trouble with legends miracles but was able to get there with a witch and no swords.
Game Two: I Bring in the hate and was able to land an early exploration with ports. I kept his mana off balance for a few turns and landed a Boseiju->Boil on turn 5. 2-0

Round Three (Aluren): Unhinged the bronze gates of hell with qhostquarter lock on turn one. He kept all 3 of his basics in his opener.
Game Two: I gamble early for a sphere of resistance, then establish wastelock. I don't think it was a good match up for him. 2-0

Round Four (Sneak and hack): Another dear friend is playing. I had a hunch he was on sneak and show since he was previously playing omnishit. I have the nuts hand and try to stick manabond, he forces it pitching ponder. He draws and plays lotus petal, lotus petal, land show and tell->Emrakul i put in karakas bouncing it back before combat next turn. i don't draw any steam and he ends up landing sneak attack and annihilates me.
Game Two: I keep a greedy hand with the combo, some hate, and a rotation. I play a thicket and a chalice on 0 and pass. I assemble the combo a turn later and get there.
Game 3: He passes the turn back after cantriping, I cast exploration and it sticks, he casts another cantrip and passes, i assemble the combo and pass, on his turn he casts show and tell, I respond by making a witch in fear of him showing Bloodmoon. He doesn't, and plops down an exposed Emrakul which i bounce with the Karakas i showed into play. I will improve my posts the more i play. will try and get another one this weekend.

Main deck Boseiju? How's that been working for you?

[Croprot]

The mana production isn't that important either; it's just that mana production seems better than Maze of Ith, which doesn't stop Elves from going wide with a bunch of little dudes, nor does it hose Deathrite Shaman, nor does it have a whole lot of utility against a Craterhoof alpha strike. I suppose in this last scenario it could make the math a little harder for the Elves player, since they'll get to attack with one less giant dude, but the Maze still seems like it has little to no value in the matchup. However, this has only been my experience. What's been yours?

I've kept it in and maze plus tabernacle provides for a really strong lock that some people will scoop to just to get to the next game. Your logic on trinisphere vs sphere is something I have experienced as well. The only thing that I like sphere for is pushing up their natural order cost. Also maze is a land that pitches really smoothly to mox.

[Cfetchcaviar]

Main deck Boseiju? How's that been working for you?

Really great, I'm only ever bummed to see it in the DnT/elves match up which I feel very comfortable in. We devour that kind of deck.

[Croprot]

Main deck Boseiju? How's that been working for you?

I used to test a main deck boseiju against miracles and stone blade specific to see how it went. The problem I had was that I never was able to resolve the gambles and crop rotations. In the post board game when I have cost modifiers available is when I can cast anything against them and the game gets very one sided.

[Cfetchcaviar]

I used to test a main deck boseiju against miracles and stone blade specific to see how it went. The problem I had was that I never was able to resolve the gambles and crop rotations. In the post board game when I have cost modifiers available is when I can cast anything against them and the game gets very one sided.

I empathize a lot. Getting a rotation countered can suck. It's sweet when it happens, but I try not to lean on it. Lands players are inherentley possesed by superstition. Everytime we cast gamble it elicits a subtle pleasure, and resolution requisites small success. We are already favored in that match up. Chalice on one+sphere+boseiju is wishful as fuck. I just keep them off double blue and punish them and their weenies.

[gigapatrick]

On Maze vs. Elves: What Dice_Box and Croprot have said seems reasonable, so I'll probably keep one or two in for games two and three.

On another note:

Building a Fortress #19 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrRpmUxymNs&list=PLnKd4zx_gmR4plZ4cgopTDynggjop5awh&index=19)

We've seen a similar matchup very recently, but not the exact same thing. A much more interesting match this time too.

[Dice_Box]

Watching it, game one you should make a copy of his Wasteland. You have the Stage to spare and it means that should you have drawn Depths, you had an an option to use it that turn. Also there was a turn where you ended with a Stage and 2 Mana open and he was tapped down. That was a prime place to copy the Wasteland and then Waste it when you untapped.

[gigapatrick]

Watching it, game one you should make a copy of his Wasteland. You have the Stage to spare and it means that should you have drawn Depths, you had an an option to use it that turn. Also there was a turn where you ended with a Stage and 2 Mana open and he was tapped down. That was a prime place to copy the Wasteland and then Waste it when you untapped.

Yeah. Saw that when i rewatched the video. Also was pretty inefficient with my ports and my wasteland game two.

[gigapatrick]

Building a Fortress #20 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k61XlFCoRzo&index=20&list=PLnKd4zx_gmR4plZ4cgopTDynggjop5awh)

Building a Fortress #21
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtZ-OKLB-aw)
Both of these matches are pretty ugly, one match for me and the other for my opponent.

[hyp3r1on]

So what's the overall sentiment with the Shardless matchup? Obviously, they are pretty soft to Dark Depths but lately I've been having decent difficulty in these games. It always seems you need a combination of all of your resources - Loam, Pfire, Exploration/Moxen, Mazes to overwhelm them.

[Dice_Box]

It's one of those games where you have to read the early game and pick a line. Sometimes it's right to Gamble for Punishing Fire and not Loam, this can be that kind of match. Outside of that, I really like Wasteland against them with the 3ball on the table. They are trying to be mana efficient and pull out small advantages with their tricks. Interfere with it.

Cascade sucks when they have to eat your balls.

[Admiral Nobeard]

So what's the overall sentiment with the Shardless matchup? Obviously, they are pretty soft to Dark Depths but lately I've been having decent difficulty in these games. It always seems you need a combination of all of your resources - Loam, Pfire, Exploration/Moxen, Mazes to overwhelm them.

From what I've played, you have to get an early Exploration or Manabond online as quickly as possible, then worry about getting Loam grinding. From there, it's all up to how well your dredges. I've considered running more than one Thicket to try and get an extra draw/dredge as quickly as possible to get the lands I need and the Fires in the yard, just squeezing out incremental advantage without dying.

[barcode]

So what's the overall sentiment with the Shardless matchup? Obviously, they are pretty soft to Dark Depths but lately I've been having decent difficulty in these games. It always seems you need a combination of all of your resources - Loam, Pfire, Exploration/Moxen, Mazes to overwhelm them.

Kill Deathrite Shaman and you win. They play one or two basic lands which you can port (or Ghost Quarter if that's your thing). Wasteland them off dual lands and man-lands. Be mindful of Surgical Extraction since they can tag important combo pieces.

[Morte]

Building a Fortress #21 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtZ-OKLB-aw)

Patrick, one question about RUG Delver: in both matches you comboed at his EoT, exposing to a possible Wasteland. Wasn't better to directly combo in your turn? Generally speaking, waiting to combo EoT isn't preferable only in case of possible sorcery speed removal, against Wasteland decks? In your experience can RUG Delver play other removals for the witch aside Submerge? Thanks!

[Wotkenmendo]

I used to test a main deck boseiju against miracles and stone blade specific to see how it went. The problem I had was that I never was able to resolve the gambles and crop rotations. In the post board game when I have cost modifiers available is when I can cast anything against them and the game gets very one sided.

The main deck Boseiju is super annoying! While it's best to get it out ASAP and you may not always have the read to make that decision quickly game 1, it seems like a great tool to have in the main at a fairly low risk. I am no Lands player though, just a victim of Boseiju.

[gigapatrick]

Patrick, one question about RUG Delver: in both matches you comboed at his EoT, exposing to a possible Wasteland. Wasn't better to directly combo in your turn? Generally speaking, waiting to combo EoT isn't preferable only in case of possible sorcery speed removal, against Wasteland decks? In your experience can RUG Delver play other removals for the witch aside Submerge? Thanks!

I should have gone for the combo main phase. My head was not in either of those games. Rug delver shouldn't really have
access to anything that would necessitate going off eot.

[gigapatrick]

Building a Fortress #22 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERu01Z_Uc9o)

[The_Dingo]

Building a Fortress #22 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERu01Z_Uc9o)

At 9:55 you should have copied his forest to fizzle his wasteland activation.

[Cfetchcaviar]

Went 2-1 at my weekly event. Lost to a four color control deck. the other match ups were shardless and merfolk and they went exactly how you think.

The four color deck had double DRS game one and was able to keep me off everything, never saw punishing fire.
Game two they had DRS, and meddling mage on pfire. I was able to waste them off white, bog their graveyard and make a witch with no swords.
Game Three they were able to land double DRS and meddling mage on pfire. During one of the sideboard games they extracted my wastelands. This match up felt awful, even though their entire manabase was non basics. ugh :(

[barcode]

Went 2-1 at my weekly event. Lost to a four color control deck. the other match ups were shardless and merfolk and they went exactly how you think.

The four color deck had double DRS game one and was able to keep me off everything, never saw punishing fire.
Game two they had DRS, and meddling mage on pfire. I was able to waste them off white, bog their graveyard and make a witch with no swords.
Game Three they were able to land double DRS and meddling mage on pfire. During one of the sideboard games they extracted my wastelands. This match up felt awful, even though their entire manabase was non basics. ugh :(

This is what makes me want to play Red Elemental Blast or Volcanic Fallout.

We can beat DRS+DRS. I had my Punishing Fires and Stages extracted at Champs and still won (due to a few unsafe decisions by my opponent, but still) but mixing Meddling Mage into the mix can cause severe problems. :( Makes me want to play "Can't be Countered" or "Can't be Prevented" answers to Meddling Mage.

We need to be on the watch for an increase in Meddling Mage. Pay attention to the Miracles and Stoneblade threads.

[Dice_Box]

I think the easiest way to sum up what has happened of late is to say we have become a known entity. I mean this time last year sure people knew about the deck but who really wanted to play test against something that was rare, not really fun to play against and who no one you knew really understood how to pilot correctly anyway for a gauntlet?

Skip to now and we are popular, known, growning and people are starting to understand that the cost of Lands as a deck is in fact lower then some other decks in the format. If you own DnT or Goblins the cost to cross over is lower still. This means we are seeing more hare, more people taking up the challenge of testing against us and trying to work out what works and what does not. We are known now. It might mean that now, it's our turn to adapt.

[gigapatrick]

I've also seen an increase in Meddling Mage online. My initial thought for sideboarding was to try something like Barbarian Ring, but its impact seems too low. Other options include Molten Vortex, Seismic Assault, or PrimeTime (not a direct answer, but a Meddling Mage seems like less of a problem when you've got a huge guy and a witch token). But maybe Pyroblast is the way to go, since it can also be boarded in against a slew of matchups.

[barcode]

I've also seen an increase in Meddling Mage online. My initial thought for sideboarding was to try something like Barbarian Ring, but its impact seems too low. Other options include Molten Vortex, Seismic Assault, or PrimeTime (not a direct answer, but a Meddling Mage seems like less of a problem when you've got a huge guy and a witch token). But maybe Pyroblast is the way to go, since it can also be boarded in against a slew of matchups.

Not to nitpick but I actually think we want Red Elemental Blast since it's much harder to Misdirect when we're targeting the Mage in play.

[Chatto]

So what to drop? 3ball? And how many, 2-3? Interesting, I'm keeping my eyes open and test REB.

[gigapatrick]

So what to drop? 3ball? And how many, 2-3? Interesting, I'm keeping my eyes open and test REB.

Well, since we want to run 6 to 7 Sphere effects in the board for combo matchups, maybe you drop some number for two REB since REB also has utility in those matchups as well. Something like:

3 Sphere of Resistance
2 Trinisphere
2 REB

or some such configuration depending on your main deck. Not sure, but I might try it for a video.

[Cfetchcaviar]

In my flex slot, i play a one of wildfire. Its a little slower that a turn three volcanic fallout, but the effect is more dramatic. It puts me at a great advantage over my opponents since I can recover lands faster. Plus, it kills angels, and blows up basics we can't waste. Can cast under a blood moon. Ill be more keen in the future for meddling mage sideboard shenanigans.

SB:
4 Grip
3 Sphere of Resi
2 Trini
2 Chalice of the void
2 Boil
1 Pithing Needle
1 Wildfire

[barcode]

In my flex slot, i play a one of wildfire. Its a little slower that a turn three volcanic fallout, but the effect is more dramatic. It puts me at a great advantage over my opponents since I can recover lands faster. Plus, it kills angels, and blows up basics we can't waste. Can cast under a blood moon. Ill be more keen in the future for meddling mage sideboard shenanigans.

SB:
4 Grip
3 Sphere of Resi
2 Trini
2 Chalice of the void
2 Boil
1 Pithing Needle
1 Wildfire

When are you bringing Chalices and Needle in? I want both for Miracles but I found that I get jammed up with Chalice on 1 blocking my needle. I definitely want Chalice for Storm.

[Whitefaces]

Now that DTT has gone and Omni with it (for the most part) Trinisphere has lost most of its appeal I reckon. The one-two punch of 3Sphere and Choke don't do the same thing vs Sneak and Show, and vs storm etc stacking up multiple Spheres and Chalices should be more effective due to the lower CMC.

[Chatto]

@ patrick: I'm no big fan of Trinisphere vs combo. It's a beast when it goes unanswered, but being 3cmc it's rather slow. SoR along REB/ PB will do just fine, and also makes your SB better against more decks (I think)

@ Dissection: I agree with your reasoning. That's why I would think that Choke and Trinisphere are the very first to cut for REB and/ or Pyroblast. Our deck has become a real contender, people will pack hate against us.

[gigapatrick]

@ patrick: I'm no big fan of Trinisphere vs combo. It's a beast when it goes unanswered, but being 3cmc it's rather slow. SoR along REB/ PB will do just fine, AMD aldo makes your SB better against more decks (I think)

Seems reasonable. I've been thinking of dropping the Trinispheres for REBs and doing a video, though right now I'm trying something with a little bit more spice. Will probably do a video with REBs when what I'm trying now fails.

[Alexeezay]

Hello! So I played RG Lands in the MKM Series Prague main event.

I started 4-1 (won vs Elves, Miracles, Stoneblade, Team America. Lost to a Miracles pilot I know, didn't see Thespian's Stage in at least 30 cards)
Shardless BUG put me out of contention in Game 3: T1 Needle on Stage, T2 MeddlingMage on Punishing Fire, T3 MeddlingMage on Life from the Loam. I K'gripped the Needle (had 2 Grips in hand and drew a 3rd) but eventually lost to Mage beatdown joined by a Tarmogoyf because I had only 1 Maze & didn't draw Stage.

My hand was too slow & I should have mulliganed. I'm conservative when it comes to Mulligans but it was definitely a mistake!
Speed & Wasteland/PFire T1-2 is super important I think. I will definitely try the 2 REBs you talk about & Molten Vortex again as I had some bad matches versus good DnT players in the past. Next tourney in 2 weeks.

Speaking of Mulligans: Mulling with non-U (non-Brainstorm) decks is much harder, especially with Lands! I still have to practice this.

[gigapatrick]

Building a Fortress #23 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IjiRNOAjw4s)

Building a Fortress #24 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmD6ZueL4MU)

Building a Fortress #25 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXtzNMNzuNE)

The first two feature some of my worst play, ever. I clearly am awful.

The third features the best of accidental-type Lands wins.

Enjoy.

[Cfetchcaviar]

When are you bringing Chalices and Needle in? I want both for Miracles but I found that I get jammed up with Chalice on 1 blocking my needle. I definitely want Chalice for Storm.

I bring in chalice for: miracles, show and tell varients, storm varients, and rug delver. I bring the needle in the miracles match up as well. I find more often than not, my turn one chalice is countered. Having needle is an extra, more diverse tool if chalice gets countered, or wear teared. Hits fetchlands, karakas etc. I don't mind having it be a dead card if I have chalice on 1. It means I can combo without worrying about swords. Unless they have terminus.

[Morte]

Building a Fortress #23 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IjiRNOAjw4s) (Lands vs. Aggro Loam)

Various slips as you say, a suggestion maybe not trivial: when the opponent has the capability to kill your Prime Titan with blockers, it's a good thing to fetch a maze, so you can attack with the titan and maze it to protect it from blockers. You'll do no damage, but you'll keep on fetching two new lands every turn.

Edit -
Building a Fortress #24 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmD6ZueL4MU) (Lands vs. The Walking Dead)

G1 you could combo right after your first Manabon activation, right? Anyway result aside, very funny match!

[gigapatrick]

Various slips as you say, a suggestion maybe not trivial: when the opponent has the capability to kill your Prime Titan with blockers, it's a good thing to fetch a maze, so you can attack with the titan and maze it to protect it from blockers. You'll do no damage, but you'll keep on fetching two new lands every turn

Hey, thanks for the advice. I totally didn't think of that (otherwise I would have done it). Not real happy with my play in that video, not happy at all. At several points, I could have turned the game in my favor had I made better decisions. My play against The Walking Dead in the next video is even worse, so bad I'm a little ashamed to show the both of them.

[Morte]

LOL I see, but I really appreciated both of them. Sometimes suboptimal plays let you think and learn more than a perfect game. Keep on with your good work gigapatrick!

[Brendelton]

Hey, thanks for the advice. I totally didn't think of that (otherwise I would have done it). Not real happy with my play in that video, not happy at all. At several points, I could have turned the game in my favor had I made better decisions. My play against The Walking Dead in the next video is even worse, so bad I'm a little ashamed to show the both of them.

Keep up the videos they are super informative. I love them.

[hyp3r1on]

If you're worried about Meddling Mages I would much sooner consider running Sudden Shocks and/or Volcanic Fallouts in the sideboard over REBs. Sudden Shock has great additional utility, dealing with Deathrite and Monastery Mentor. With REBs its really hard to hold it up as a removal spell when your opponent is casting Brainstorm which Fetches open/Ancestral Visions etc etc - especially against BUG decks. Against Miracles there are a lot more high impact cards than REB you can be running in SB.

As for Trinisphere - imo it's not really something you want to be running anymore since Omni has left the format. 3Sphere is too slow against Storm/Reanimator and really weak against Show and Tell decks. I think Sphere of Resistances/Chalices and possibly a 1 of Thorn for certain metas is where you want to be at. Sphere has historically put in the good fight against all 3 of those decks :)

[barcode]

If you're worried about Meddling Mages I would much sooner consider running Sudden Shocks and/or Volcanic Fallouts in the sideboard over REBs. Sudden Shock has great additional utility, dealing with Deathrite and Monastery Mentor. With REBs its really hard to hold it up as a removal spell when your opponent is casting Brainstorm which Fetches open/Ancestral Visions etc etc - especially against BUG decks. Against Miracles there are a lot more high impact cards than REB you can be running in SB.

I was just thinking about Sudden Shock this morning while planning to take Dredge to GP SEATAC for Vintage sides. It packs Sudden Shocks to deal with these hatebear creatures. Sudden Shock also has the benefit of being 2 CMC so we won't lock ourselves out of REB with Chalice of the Void on 1.

[gigapatrick]

Thanks to those who find the videos informative, regardless of my play. Will keep on playing and posting. That's my plan, though I've been in a losing slump the past couple of days.

Still fiddling with the sideboard. I like the idea of additional removal spells in the board over REBs. Pyroclasm seems like a decent card, as does the aforementioned Sudden Shock. Don't know where to fit these spells though. Guess it depends on whether or not you want to be totally dead to Storm if you play it. Since we're losing to Storm most of the time anyway, maybe the best option is to say screw it and only play four or five Thorn effects. Not sure that's optimal, but it's a thought.

[barcode]

Thanks to those who find the videos informative, regardless of my play. Will keep on playing and posting. That's my plan, though I've been in a losing slump the past couple of days.

Still fiddling with the sideboard. I like the idea of additional removal spells in the board over REBs. Pyroclasm seems like a decent card, as does the aforementioned Sudden Shock. Don't know where to fit these spells though. Guess it depends on whether or not you want to be totally dead to Storm if you play it. Since we're losing to Storm most of the time anyway, maybe the best option is to say screw it and only play four or five Thorn effects. Not sure that's optimal, but it's a thought.

Oddly in my last 5 matches vs Storm (going back to GP Vegas Thursday side event and including a Belcher deck) I'm 100% match win percentage on the back of 4 Sphere of Resistance, Bojuka Bog and Chalice of the Void (for 0). I KNOW it's a horrible matchup but I'm riding high on the variance. I feel like these cards give us good range vs medium-good players. I'd like to play against great players to gauge the Spheres and Chalices.

[gigapatrick]

Oddly in my last 5 matches vs Storm (going back to GP Vegas Thursday side event and including a Belcher deck) I'm 100% match win percentage on the back of 4 Sphere of Resistance, Bojuka Bog and Chalice of the Void (for 0). I KNOW it's a horrible matchup but I'm riding high on the variance. I feel like these cards give us good range vs medium-good players. I'd like to play against great players to gauge the Spheres and Chalices.

How many Chalice are you running?

Agreed on the medium-good players part. Spheres and Thorns and Chalices can help us beat medium-good players, but good-realgood players should probably still win. Awesome that you're winning that much against Storm. Having faced it a combined five times in tournaments, I think my record is 2-3.

[Chatto]

@ patrick: just watched #24 against TWD... G1: Why didn't you just combo and attack the following turn?

[Cfetchcaviar]

This video is a little old, I'd still love some feedback. http://youtu.be/6E7mwj0XoPU My robotic gameplay has evolved to a more relaxed state. I neglected my primeval titan triggers because I was afraid of decking myself. I had dredged most of my library. I regret tapping mana for port activations the way I did. Could have used karakas or bog.

[barcode]

How many Chalice are you running?

Agreed on the medium-good players part. Spheres and Thorns and Chalices can help us beat medium-good players, but good-realgood players should probably still win. Awesome that you're winning that much against Storm. Having faced it a combined five times in tournaments, I think my record is 2-3.

2 Chalice of the Void in the board for now. I've been happy with the number and they come in against a variety of matches (Storm, Miracles, Sneak & Show, RUG Delver..)

[gigapatrick]

@ patrick: just watched #24 against TWD... G1: Why didn't you just combo and attack the following turn?

Because I was stoned . . .

Not really, but my mind was not working. For some reason, I thought I didn't have the mana to combo. Clearly I did, and I lost because I thought otherwise.
@barcode: I've had mixed results with Chalice. I like it a lot, but it hoses us as well. I'm not sure where I stand on it. On zero versus Storm seems good since it still hits them reasonably hard while allowing us to still play our Crops and Gambles, though you probably have to put it on one against other decks. Maybe it's better than Trinisphere now since Omnitell's gone. Again, not sure how I feel about it.

Additionally, here are some more videos, only one of which is a complete embarrassment.

Building a Fortress #26 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUq0lka0z8k&index=26&list=PLnKd4zx_gmR4plZ4cgopTDynggjop5awh)

Building a Fortress #27 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZ1M_eWK1Mw&list=PLnKd4zx_gmR4plZ4cgopTDynggjop5awh&index=27)

Building a Fortress #28 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YX7iX0Pipzc&list=PLnKd4zx_gmR4plZ4cgopTDynggjop5awh&index=28)

Building a Fortress #29 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2KfMkC2SEg&list=PLnKd4zx_gmR4plZ4cgopTDynggjop5awh&index=29)

Building a Fortress #30 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3_kLNrLT_A&list=PLnKd4zx_gmR4plZ4cgopTDynggjop5awh&index=30)

[Alexeezay]

Hi Patrick,
#26 Miracles G1: the turn he played Counterbalance you could have Dredged and tried Loam because he shuffled with Polluted Delta :) but a cool video!

Also: Isn't it possible that when you tap his lands with port on upkeep, then use Punishing Fire still on upkeep? Because obviously he will not want to draw the 2 on top and put it 2nd.
Because almost always he will not float the Mana after he used Top & he can't rearrange. That's when he is tapped out then but it also works VERY well when he has only 1 mana left since he has to draw his 2 now.

Regards to Sideboarding (Miracles): I like keeping in Tabernacle vs Mentor & putting in Bojuka Bog...it stops Snapcaster a little bit & at least produces mana.
Spheres have been frustrating here, only matchup where I board them is Storm, Burn, High Tide or sometimes RUG/BUG

[Fatal]

Try Boil :-) much better then Choke.

[gigapatrick]

Try Boil :-) much better then Choke.

I actually don't think Boil is even close to being as good as Choke. Boil costs four and has a one-time effect. Choke costs three and is both retroactive and proactive.

@Alexeezay: I think you're right. There were definitely windows to cast Loam and Punishing Fire that I did not see, and if I'd have resolved a Punishing Fire, I'd had have more turns to try to draw Depths. Counterbalance is so disheartening to play against that I give up on casting spells way too quickly.

[Dice_Box]

I actually don't think Boil is even close to being as good as Choke. Boil costs four and has a one-time effect. Choke costs three and is both retroactive and proactive.
I have found it is deck dependent. Against Shardless I have had my opponent hold Fetchs and then Decay the Choke leaving them open to interact later on. Boil here if they had of been fetching would have been a blowout. At the same time I have gone against Fish, killed their opening Lord and then dropped a Choke. Night night since I can waste everything else. Its dependent.

[Cfetchcaviar]

I have found it is deck dependent. Against Shardless I have had my opponent hold Fetchs and then Decay the Choke leaving them open to interact later on. Boil here if they had of been fetching would have been a blowout. At the same time I have gone against Fish, killed their opening Lord and then dropped a Choke. Night night since I can waste everything else. Its dependent.

The interaction between boil+boseiju is worth mentioning. Very hard to counter it vs a vulnerable enchantment which can be wear teared, bounced, decayed, or straight up countered.

[Cfetchcaviar]

Because I was stoned . . .

Not really, but my mind was not working. For some reason, I thought I didn't have the mana to combo. Clearly I did, and I lost because I thought otherwise.
@barcode: I've had mixed results with Chalice. I like it a lot, but it hoses us as well. I'm not sure where I stand on it. On zero versus Storm seems good since it still hits them reasonably hard while allowing us to still play our Crops and Gambles, though you probably have to put it on one against other decks. Maybe it's better than Trinisphere now since Omnitell's gone. Again, not sure how I feel about it.

Additionally, here are some more videos, only one of which is a complete embarrassment.

Building a Fortress #26 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUq0lka0z8k&index=26&list=PLnKd4zx_gmR4plZ4cgopTDynggjop5awh)

Building a Fortress #27 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZ1M_eWK1Mw&list=PLnKd4zx_gmR4plZ4cgopTDynggjop5awh&index=27)

Building a Fortress #28 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YX7iX0Pipzc&list=PLnKd4zx_gmR4plZ4cgopTDynggjop5awh&index=28)

Building a Fortress #29 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2KfMkC2SEg&list=PLnKd4zx_gmR4plZ4cgopTDynggjop5awh&index=29)

Building a Fortress #30 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3_kLNrLT_A&list=PLnKd4zx_gmR4plZ4cgopTDynggjop5awh&index=30)

In video 28 RU I think, you should have wasted your own tranquil thicket. You could have dredged 2 additional times and set up a huge manabond trigger. It would close the game out faster and give you more time to think in game 2 when you probably crush them again.

[gigapatrick]

Building a Fortress #31 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1fY-2QB6rU&list=PLnKd4zx_gmR4plZ4cgopTDynggjop5awh&index=31)

Building a Fortress #32 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtHVfCp6xkg&index=32&list=PLnKd4zx_gmR4plZ4cgopTDynggjop5awh)

Enjoy.

[Cfetchcaviar]

Building a Fortress #31 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1fY-2QB6rU&list=PLnKd4zx_gmR4plZ4cgopTDynggjop5awh&index=31)

Building a Fortress #32 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtHVfCp6xkg&index=32&list=PLnKd4zx_gmR4plZ4cgopTDynggjop5awh)

Enjoy.

Why didn't you rotate for bajouka bog in the shardless matchup? Plenty of chances to grab it for blowout.

Nvm, I see now that you boarded it out.

[UnsungHero]

Made Day 2 with R/G Lands at SCG St.Louis this weekend. Made day 2 and made top 64 (41st). Overall record was 10-5 (6-3 Day 1) (4-2 Day 2) anyways, here is what I played against. I don't have any good notes sadly. There was 3 Lands decks in day 2.

Match 1: Rug Delver L (Real close game, game 3 he had double force hitting both crop rotations when I was trying to get a stage.)
Match 2: OmniShow W
Match 3: Storm L
Match 4: Elves W
Match 5: Aggro Loam (4 Color) L
Match 6: Infect W
Match 7: Burn W
Match 8: Sneak&Show W
Match 9: Junk Loam (Junk) W
Match 10: Reanimator W
Match 11: Merfolk W
Match 12: Shardless L (Felt awful losing this, double deathrite both games was rough)
Match 13: Shortcake (R/W Painter) L
Match 14: Burn W
Match 15: Elves W

The weekend went well. Ran into some bad matches, and lost some winnable ones, but overall was happy on how I played and learned some new tricks along the way. The last 2 events I've played with this deck I have made money, so I have been super happy with the deck. Also happy that I didn't have to play Miracles at any point in the weekend.

Chris Andersen, who took 10th was only running 1 Manabond instead of 2. He was running a Riftstone Portal too. Despite Deathrite being a problem, Portal is a card I've been thinking about running in the 75. Manabond is certainly the card to cut for this card. And it can be boarded out in specific matchups that have Deathrite. Interesting to hear what everyone thinks of bringing back this old Lands favorite.

[barcode]

Made Day 2 with R/G Lands at SCG St.Louis this weekend. Made day 2 and made top 64 (41st). Overall record was 10-5 (6-3 Day 1) (4-2 Day 2) anyways, here is what I played against. I don't have any good notes sadly. There was 3 Lands decks in day 2.

Match 1: Rug Delver L (Real close game, game 3 he had double force hitting both crop rotations when I was trying to get a stage.)
Match 2: OmniShow W
Match 3: Storm L
Match 4: Elves W
Match 5: Aggro Loam (4 Color) L
Match 6: Infect W
Match 7: Burn W
Match 8: Sneak&Show W
Match 9: Junk Loam (Junk) W
Match 10: Reanimator W
Match 11: Merfolk W
Match 12: Shardless L (Felt awful losing this, double deathrite both games was rough)
Match 13: Shortcake (R/W Painter) L
Match 14: Burn W
Match 15: Elves W

The weekend went well. Ran into some bad matches, and lost some winnable ones, but overall was happy on how I played and learned some new tricks along the way. The last 2 events I've played with this deck I have made money, so I have been super happy with the deck. Also happy that I didn't have to play Miracles at any point in the weekend.

Chris Andersen, who took 10th was only running 1 Manabond instead of 2. He was running a Riftstone Portal too. Despite Deathrite being a problem, Portal is a card I've been thinking about running in the 75. Manabond is certainly the card to cut for this card. And it can be boarded out in specific matchups that have Deathrite. Interesting to hear what everyone thinks of bringing back this old Lands favorite.

I've played Riftstone and it's a good card in a meta full of Blood Moon. We still get Green mana. Prior to blood moon resurgence it just wasn't high enough impact (pre-DTT ban), I found, and so I cut it. I've also been very happy with 1 Manabond (basically only want the 2nd vs lands mirror) for a long time now.

[gigapatrick]

@Unsung Hero:

Congrats on the top 64. That's no joke at a big Open.

@Cfetchcaviar:

I didn't board Bog out; I never boarded it in. However, I should have, because you're absolutely right. I could have Crop Roted for Bog and fended off that second Gurmag Angler. In any case, I'm pretty sure that I shouldn't be playing Karakas main deck in the two-man queues. It should probably be Bog instead since it has more utility and since Sneak and Show is really rare. Don't think that would be the right choice for a paper Open or a MTGO daily, but in the two-mans I think it is.

Additionally, had a pretty awful turn at my local yesterday. Went 1-3, beating Miracles and losing to Dreadstill, Bug Delver (my own fault, sacked the wrong land to a Glacial Chasm which gave my opponent the window he needed to win the game), and a sweet port from Modern: Legacy Lanterns. Don't think Lanterns will ever become a thing in Legacy, but it doesn't seem like a good matchup. Main deck Ensnaring Bridge means our plan has to be Punishing Fire, and it turns out that isn't too good when your opponent is milling you for two or three a turn while you also have to dredge.

[barcode]

I played in a GPT on Saturday with a miserable 1-2 drop record to catch a ride home early.

My matchups were Deadguy Ale (a la Wilkin). Lingering Souls is a big game. He also waste my Tabernacle and then extracted my Loams on turn 2 or 3 in game 2 or 3 so I couldn't get a huge mana advantage.

Then I got to crush Miracles. I mulliganed to 5 in game 1 and he had no action going (even with 2 Counterbalances; no top). Resolved Manabond and Loams for days got it done. Game 2 I got to verify how absurd Boil is if it resolves. He had been fetching basic lands and I Boiled 3 of them away (I wanted to keep him off Jace mana). Again in this game he had nothing going on either so it wasn't a real good test.

Round 3 I get paired against Infect and punt game 3 by using a Sudden Shock on my turn when I could have stolen a pump spell too. Lesson learned.

And then when I got home the food poisoning set in. So that's my defence for playing poorly, or something.

In the end I think it's important to have access to Chalice of the Void or Crucible of Worlds vs Extraction decks. Or go back to Primeval Titan.

[Qujibo]

What is everyone's opinion on trinisphere now that DTT is gone? For this weeks FNM I decided to cut the two I had for 2 thorns and it went very well for me.

[UnsungHero]

What is everyone's opinion on trinisphere now that DTT is gone? For this weeks FNM I decided to cut the two I had for 2 thorns and it went very well for me.

I still think Trinisphere is really good. If not for Trinisphere I wouldn't have a fighting chance against storm decks. Its also really relevant against Burn and to some extent Shardless. I've never ran thorn, mainly because Sphere of Resistance hits creatures too, while Thorn only hits non creature spells and since we don't play creatures, Sphere of Resistance is just better in this deck.

Also I was able to talk to Chris Andersen about Riftstone Portal in his list and he said he really liked it, said it did alot more than he thought it would do. May have to Finally cut a Manabond and try one myself.

[gigapatrick]

I still think Trinisphere is really good. If not for Trinisphere I wouldn't have a fighting chance against storm decks. Its also really relevant against Burn and to some extent Shardless. I've never ran thorn, mainly because Sphere of Resistance hits creatures too, while Thorn only hits non creature spells and since we don't play creatures, Sphere of Resistance is just better in this deck.

Also I was able to talk to Chris Andersen about Riftstone Portal in his list and he said he really liked it, said it did alot more than he thought it would do. May have to Finally cut a Manabond and try one myself.

On Trinisphere: I also like it a lot versus Miracles. I'm not sure how everyone else feels about it, but I think it's a fifty-fifty match and those are the matchups I want to shore up: the ones we can win. With or without Thorn effects we're a dog to combo usually, so I'd rather go with Trinisphere which has utility in other matchups than with Thorn of Amethyst (obviously we're playing some number of Sphere of Resistance).

On Riftstone Portal and Chrandersen's list: The singleton Manabond intrigues me, enough that I've made some videos, that I will post shortly, running just one. I didn't try out Riftstone, not because I don't think it's useful but because I just wanted to free up a slot in the sideboard by adding Bog to the main. I'd like to know what Andersen thinks is the benefit of Riftstone because it still seems like you're losing to Blood Moon decks. I mean, sure, you can Loam all you want with Rifstone in the yard, but you can't do much when you're putting a bunch of Mountains into play.

[gigapatrick]

Building a Fortress #33: Part One of 8-Man Queue (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhFc9DUXics)

Building a Fortress #34: Part Two of 8-Man Queue (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXmrbhWzEpM)

Building a Fortress #35: Finals of 8-Man Queue (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jlwoBGvFViE)

Edit: Sound is working fine on these videos.

[redstripe509]

How is everyone fairing against Reanimator? I'm having a lot of trouble with the match-up, tidespout is particularly troubling.

[Dice_Box]

How is everyone fairing against Reanimator? I'm having a lot of trouble with the match-up, tidespout is particularly troubling.

It's a deck I have issues with locally. My sideboard is tuned to take down Reanimator in place of other combos. But that is a local call and one I would only make if it was likely to work for you.

[barcode]

How is everyone fairing against Reanimator? I'm having a lot of trouble with the match-up, tidespout is particularly troubling.

We can't really beat Tidespout Tyrant. Tidespout is even more potent out of the Food Chain deck.

I think we just need to accept that if a Tidespout Tyrant is on the battlefield we just lose. Now we can focus on how to defend against them getting one in play. What are our tools?

1. Kill them before they get it
2. Deny their mana
3. Nuke their graveyard in response

Options 2 and 3 are the most realistic. Rishadan Port, Wastelands and Spheres of Resistance/Trinisphere are the best tools here. Crop Rotation for Bojuka Bog and/or Karakas (as needed) and/or Maze of Ith.

How do we really lose the matchup? If we can't active Maze of Ith (Needle or Tidespout) or if Maze of Ith doesn't do enough (Grave Titan).

[meso94]

What do think about Amdersen's sideboard? Is a good option to take out one grip for the Second choke or needle? What about boseiju, does it lose his potential and it is replaced with Second tabernacle?

[UnsungHero]

What do think about Amdersen's sideboard? Is a good option to take out one grip for the Second choke or needle? What about boseiju, does it lose his potential and it is replaced with Second tabernacle?

I think his board is purely based on the anticipated meta. I'm not sure what he was expecting but from what I saw at alot of the tables, most of his board seemed like a good call. With the rise of Shardless ______(whatever you want to call it), I think needle is pretty important. As for the 2nd tabernacle, Elves and Infect were huge at the Atlanta IQ, so being having a 2nd one in the 75 makes those matches even more of a breeze than they already are. I still think Boseiju is good against miracles, but other than that deck I really don't want to bring it in against anything else. Unless your meta is full of Miraderp decks I probably wouldn't run Boseiju.

[barcode]

We've been relegated to Established Decks again. :cry: Maybe people will stop packing hate.

[t000]

Hi.

Love playing RG land <3 I used to play BG depths, but there is a card called Gamble that recently changed my mind from Black to Red! This card is just amazing, and really fun to play. Anyway, I do miss a 2nd and 3rd alternative kill. I see you guys mention Primeval Titan and Seismic Assault, both of which are good cards. But what about:

Bloodghast
Akoum Firebird



Synergy with:

* Loam, getting dredged to graveyard.
* If you discard to Manabond.
* ´Immune´to removal. Bloodghast doesn't care about Decay, and Firebird are not a legal target.

Any thoughts?

[Croprot]

We've been relegated to Established Decks again. :cry: Maybe people will stop packing hate.

Which is interesting also because omni tell is still somehow up there.

[iamajellydonut]

We've been relegated to Established Decks again. :cry:

You all should have tried harder.

[barcode]

You all should have tried harder.

There are only so many Legacy GPs! :cry: We don't get SCG Opens in Canada!


Hi.

Love playing RG land <3 I used to play BG depths, but there is a card called Gamble that recently changed my mind from Black to Red! This card is just amazing, and really fun to play. Anyway, I do miss a 2nd and 3rd alternative kill. I see you guys mention Primeval Titan and Seismic Assault, both of which are good cards. But what about:

Bloodghast
Akoum Firebird



Synergy with:

* Loam, getting dredged to graveyard.
* If you discard to Manabond.
* ´Immune´to removal. Bloodghast doesn't care about Decay, and Firebird are not a legal target.

Any thoughts?

We can't cast Bloodghast except for with Mox Diamonds. And Akoum Firebird is expensive to use its Landfall ability. I'm not saying it's bad or unplayable because of it, just that 6 mana is a lot.

Some in depths things is that both of these have a high dependence on the graveyard and in games 2 and 3 we are very likely to face extreme graveyard hate either in the form of Surgical Extraction or Leyline of the Void/Rest in Peace. Primeval Titan (which I've been championing) is my preferred alternate win condition because it has an extremely powerful effect ("Tutor your combo each turn"), is a very fast clock on its own, and is very difficult to deal with from other decks. Titan doesn't rely on the graveyard at all to do its thing; it is just a big dummy that is a giant ramp spell every turn to boot.

The benefits to Seismic Assault are similar but MUCH lower key: a shock every time you draw a land. But it is more difficult to answer in some ways.

[Dice_Box]

Which is interesting also because omni tell is still somehow up there.

I did the update this month, so let me explain. That is the last month that Dig was legal so Omni is up there for likely the last time. We dropped out on the first of the missed updates and by the numbers should not have been up there as long as we where. The numbers as they stand for next month have Omin gone with a line up of Miracles, ANT, Shardless, DnT, Elves, BUG Delver and Grixis. As it stands the only other deck that might make the cut is Infect. If that is how the format looks, I will take it. Aside from ANT there is nothing there that scares me.

[Cfetchcaviar]

Hi.

Love playing RG land <3 I used to play BG depths, but there is a card called Gamble that recently changed my mind from Black to Red! This card is just amazing, and really fun to play. Anyway, I do miss a 2nd and 3rd alternative kill. I see you guys mention Primeval Titan and Seismic Assault, both of which are good cards. But what about:

Bloodghast
Akoum Firebird



Synergy with:

* Loam, getting dredged to graveyard.
* If you discard to Manabond.
* ´Immune´to removal. Bloodghast doesn't care about Decay, and Firebird are not a legal target.

Any thoughts?

I would play [icefall] before I play cards that say "bird" anywhere on the cardboard.

[Chatto]

(...) The numbers as they stand for next month have Omin gone with a line up of Miracles, ANT, Shardless, DnT, Elves, BUG Delver and Grixis. As it stands the only other deck that might make the cut is Infect. If that is how the format looks, I will take it. Aside from ANT there is nothing there that scares me.

+ 1. I think RGCL not being in the spotlight is a good thing. But with BGx-decks making a comeback it also means more mainboard GY-hate, which is a bad thing.

[djxstream]

Hi.

Love playing RG land <3 I used to play BG depths, but there is a card called Gamble that recently changed my mind from Black to Red! This card is just amazing, and really fun to play. Anyway, I do miss a 2nd and 3rd alternative kill. I see you guys mention Primeval Titan and Seismic Assault, both of which are good cards. But what about:

Bloodghast
Akoum Firebird



Synergy with:

* Loam, getting dredged to graveyard.
* If you discard to Manabond.
* ´Immune´to removal. Bloodghast doesn't care about Decay, and Firebird are not a legal target.

Any thoughts?

i have a single firebird in my sideboard that i bring in for blood moon (in addition to seismic assault and 4 grips) for about 3 weeks now. I have yet to cast it.

[Dice_Box]

Picked up my Judge 2010 Wastelands this week. They are really really nice.

[gigapatrick]

Building a Fortress #36 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFvf8MDi5pM)

Enjoy.

[Dice_Box]

I love that your Porting his lands and he is not using them to activate his Vaults even though he plans to use them. Not the most on the ball player ever.

Game 2, well played. A pleasure to watch.

[barcode]

I love that your Porting his lands and he is not using them to activate his Vaults even though he plans to use them. Not the most on the ball player ever.

Game 2, well played. A pleasure to watch.

I was paired against a burn player one FNM and was porting his single mountain in his upkeep. Then he made a second land drop. I didn't have my combo online but I was digging hard. Continued to port both of his lands. I make Marit Lage and he dies and flops his hand on the table in disgust: Price of Progress, Price of Progress and sorceries.

I reminded him how instants work after the match.

[hyp3r1on]

I was paired against a burn player one FNM and was porting his single mountain in his upkeep. Then he made a second land drop. I didn't have my combo online but I was digging hard. Continued to port both of his lands. I make Marit Lage and he dies and flops his hand on the table in disgust: Price of Progress, Price of Progress and sorceries.

I reminded him how instants work after the match.

I once was using a German Glacial Chasm against a burn player. Had no way to infinitely loop it at the moment. He asked me what it did. I say "cumulative upkeep 2 life, I can't attack. Prevent all damage". He snap concedes and says "well I guess I have no way to win".

Also, I'm a strong advocate of never playing more than 3 copies of Dark Depths. It's such a terrible draw without a stage and has no added utility unlike thespian's stage. Then again I have way more experience playing with RUG Lands.

[gigapatrick]

I love that your Porting his lands and he is not using them to activate his Vaults even though he plans to use them. Not the most on the ball player ever.

Game 2, well played. A pleasure to watch.

Yeah, game two felt tough to me. I think I could have taken a safer line once or twice, but I opted for the high-risk high-reward play at end by Gambling for K-Grip. Maybe I should have tried to set up a more stable lock, but I didn't want to give him any more time to find a way out.

[barcode]

Also, I'm a strong advocate of never playing more than 3 copies of Dark Depths. It's such a terrible draw without a stage and has no added utility unlike thespian's stage

Completely agree. I've only played 3. Tried the fourth in the board once but never wanted to bring it in.

[Cfetchcaviar]

Picked up my Judge 2010 Wastelands this week. They are really really nice.

Cmon dice, don't leave us hanging. Show the goods:tongue:

[Admiral Nobeard]

Also, I'm a strong advocate of never playing more than 3 copies of Dark Depths. It's such a terrible draw without a stage and has no added utility unlike thespian's stage. Then again I have way more experience playing with RUG Lands.

I've cut my list down to only running two, just in case, and slotting in Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth and Riftstone Portal for access to mana at all times. Usually I find that having only two works just as well because Crop Rot is there, so it's as though I have six copies anyway. Urborg may come out though. I've been using it to test Smallpox, but testing is inconsistent right now.

[Cfetchcaviar]

Has anyone experimented with a crucible+buried ruin package lately? If no one has tried it, I'm gonna give it a go this weekend and make a report. I'm aware that rug lists run academy+crucible. I have a lot of island hate and don't want the disynergy.

[t000]

Anyone tried any these cards? Thoughts?

Sacred Ground
Prismatic Omen
Burgeoning
Into the Wilds


As a side note, Riftstone Portal has been great to me, discarding it to mox or dredge'ing to Loam is just a great feeling. The face of an opponent when I tapp Dark Depths or The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale for mana, PRICELESS!

[Djehuti]

Has anyone experimented with a crucible+buried ruin package lately? If no one has tried it, I'm gonna give it a go this weekend and make a report. I'm aware that rug lists run academy+crucible. I have a lot of island hate and don't want the disynergy.

I tried running crucible main deck at the 40 duals tournament in pennsylvania last weekend to hedge against miracles. Deathrite and KotR + BBog kept me from recurring any relevant lands the whole day. I didn't play against miracles once so I can't attest to its effectiveness in that matchup. I also found that it warped my decisions to keep/mulligan and my playstyle for the worse. If I had it in my openning hand, instead of using wasteland agressively, crucible makes you hold back your wastelands/Gquarters until you can cast it which is super awkward (the better play may be to waste aggressively and draw into the three mana sources you need to cast the crucible but as I mentioned before, deathrite never allowed me to make that option). Lategame, it never seemed to be relevant and was a feel bad topdeck, especially if I had no exploration/graveyard. Feel free to try it for yourself but I found it to be disappointing.

[Djehuti]

Anyone tried any these cards? Thoughts?

Sacred Ground
Prismatic Omen
Burgeoning
Into the Wilds


As a side note, Riftstone Portal has been great to me, discarding it to mox or dredge'ing to Loam is just a great feeling. The face of an opponent when I tapp Dark Depths or The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale for mana, PRICELESS!

To answer your question, tried burgeoning. Not good. Worse than exploration because you don't have immediate access to your accelerated land. Worse than manabond because its not as explosive and can have :0: impact if you draw it late game when somebody is brainstorming all of their lands away to find the gas to beat your face in. The upside of not discarding like manabond comes up less than you'd think.

I haven't tried the other cards you mentioned but I am curious, what cards would you be trying to cut for sacred ground, prismatic omen, and into the wilds?

[Admiral_Arzar]

Also, I'm a strong advocate of never playing more than 3 copies of Dark Depths. It's such a terrible draw without a stage and has no added utility unlike thespian's stage. Then again I have way more experience playing with RUG Lands.


Completely agree. I've only played 3. Tried the fourth in the board once but never wanted to bring it in.

I strongly disagree with this. The deck becomes so much more explosive and powerful with the 4th Dark Depths. R/G lands is first and foremost a combo deck, not a glacially slow prison deck like the older lands builds. I mean sure it doesn't really do anything - EXCEPT WIN YOU THE GAME. Don't forget that.

[Rivfader]

I strongly disagree with this. The deck becomes so much more explosive and powerful with the 4th Dark Depths. R/G lands is first and foremost a combo deck, not a glacially slow prison deck like the older lands builds. I mean sure it doesn't really do anything - EXCEPT WIN YOU THE GAME. Don't forget that.

I started playing 2, ticked up to 3 and am always playing 4 maindecked Depths these days. Main reason for me is that a quick combokill through 4 Depths/Stage seems to give more free game1-wins versus unfavorable matchups, than being a handicap in useless Depths-copies versus fair opponents. I also play Urborg main now, to have the combo enabled in three lands.

[Admiral_Arzar]

I started playing 2, ticked up to 3 and am always playing 4 maindecked Depths these days. Main reason for me is that a quick combokill through 4 Depths/Stage seems to give more free game1-wins versus unfavorable matchups, than being a handicap in useless Depths-copies versus fair opponents. I also play Urborg main now, to have the combo enabled in three lands.

Yeah I have beaten Storm and Omnitell before - having the speed to take advantage of them stumbling is a major reason why. Against fair decks without STP having that 4th Depths just makes it more likely that you kill them as soon as you hit the requisite mana (sometimes even heavy Deathrite draws out of Shardless don't matter because you just make a quick Marit Lage and get there).

[Dice_Box]

Cmon dice, don't leave us hanging. Show the goods:tongue:

This is what I have right now with another Maze, two more Loam, two Stage and a Karakas coming. I kind of want to keep the old Karakas in the deck though. Feels nicer to have it and Tabernacle side by side on the table both from the same set.

Also this is mostly the cheaper end of the deck to foil. The worst is yet to come, but I am finishing this. I love this fucking deck and it's the first one I have decided to devote this level of attention too. When I finally travel overseas and play at a larger than 6 round event (biggest I have been in) I want people to know this is a deck I love and I am skilled at piloting.

Also getting set foil Groves, because Vault foil is shit even if the card boarder looks nicer.

http://i.imgur.com/PLHqR2z.jpg

On the topic of Depths, I run 3 and feel like I would be better off with a Bog, Ghost Quarter or some other utility land in the place of the 4th Depths. I see us as a control deck with a combo finish. Yes you can combo fast and if that's an option I will take it, but if your having a slow game there really is no benefit to another Depths.

[hyp3r1on]

: ) Sweet Wastelands. This is my current project/version of RUG Lands. The fun of the journey and the love of the deck is what keeps you going.

http://s17.postimg.org/43cp3cd1r/20151030_130258.jpg

http://s12.postimg.org/vztrso9d9/20151030_130945.jpg

http://s8.postimg.org/5h0slvwdx/20151030_131249.jpg

Also, I've tested a lot with Buried Ruin in an RG Lands shell and it's just not very good and not what RG wants to be doing. It's just way too slow. You have to be pumping your mana into Buried Ruin, losing it as your land drop and having to Loam it back for another usage.

[UnsungHero]

Love the posts guys! I'm actually sending out a bunch of cards to be signed for my deck (non foil japanese) so I will have to show them when I get them! Deciding if I want to get my Guru Forest signed is tough... I've really enjoyed this deck and within the last month have had some excellent tourney results (Top8 an IQ and 42nd at an Open) so I'm def happy to be playing this deck. This thread is very helpful and I probably wouldn't have had those good placings if I didn't study up on it!

I've been play testing some different stuff like Portal, Numbers of Manabond. Removal of Ghost Quarter in place of some other random things. Ill probably configure the main/sideboard more once GP Seattle passes and get some more testing.

[hyp3r1on]

I strongly disagree with this. The deck becomes so much more explosive and powerful with the 4th Dark Depths. R/G lands is first and foremost a combo deck, not a glacially slow prison deck like the older lands builds. I mean sure it doesn't really do anything - EXCEPT WIN YOU THE GAME. Don't forget that.

With access to a lot of tutor effects and dredging 3 with Loam, the added utility/explosiveness you get out of 4 Depths is extremely minimal. If you're playing Lands as a Combo deck you're playing Lands as a bad combo deck and probably not playing the deck optimally. Regardless of the version, Lands is first and foremost a control deck. Your lines of play should always be dictated by "How do I lock up/control this matchup?" If you know you're at a board state where you know you can't gain control/playing against a deck that you can't gain control of like Storm/playing against a deck like iPainter where you can't afford to sit on your hand - the focus then should shift to the combo 100%. Obviously, sometimes you have to keep a lot super fast combo hands and hope its good, but the combo should never be Priority 1 unless you know you're playing against a deck that you can't afford to wait.

I see way too many inexperienced Lands pilots full throttle gun towards the Combo in matchups where it's ill-advised, get blown out - lose their land drops and put themselves in really ugly spots like under a Thalia/Revoker with only 2 lands in play.

[barcode]

With access to a lot of tutor effects and dredging 3 with Loam, the added utility/explosiveness you get out of 4 Depths is extremely minimal. If you're playing Lands as a Combo deck you're playing Lands as a bad combo deck and probably not playing the deck optimally. Regardless of the version, Lands is first and foremost a control deck. Your lines of play should always be dictated by "How do I lock up/control this matchup?" If you know you're at a board state where you know you can't gain control/playing against a deck that you can't gain control of like Storm/playing against a deck like iPainter where you can't afford to sit on your hand - the focus then should shift to the combo 100%. Obviously, sometimes you have to keep a lot super fast combo hands and hope its good, but the combo should never be Priority 1 unless you know you're playing against a deck that you can't afford to wait.

I see way too many inexperienced Lands pilots full throttle gun towards the Combo in matchups where it's ill-advised, get blown out - lose their land drops and put themselves in really ugly spots like under a Thalia/Revoker with only 2 lands in play.

Completely agree. Dark Depths is a legendary land that produces no mana. How many copies do I play, in reality? Well:

3 Dark Depths
4 Gamble
3 Crop Rotation
= 10 copies

For me and the way I play the deck I don't want the fourth copy since it just gets in the way; I've had to mulligan hands with two Dark Depths because I couldn't make more than one mana. I can't imagine how much worse it would be with four Depths.

But if OP gets better results for him- or herself going "balls to the wall" with the combo aspect then more power to them. That just isn't how I play the deck (or think the deck should be played in most circumstances).

[Chatto]

@ hyp3r1on: I can relate to what you say, but do think RGCL compares to classic Lands in a different way: because of the insanely good combo. The control part is put a bit to the background, because (imho) by playing your combo you become pro-active. Yes, it is still vital to control the board, but instead of being reactive you can now put the pressure on your opponent. So, I can relate with Rivfader and Admiral_Arzar when they play a fourth DD: drawing into your combo naturally (I think that should be your only reason running four DD) gives more room in controlling the board. I have just started fidfljng with a fourth DD in my SB, but am very satisfied with only running three MB. Still, I agree with what you say in general, but just see it a bit different.

[hyp3r1on]

@Chatto - That's fair. I'll be the first one to admit that sometimes I'm too much of an old school control player for my own good. As few win conditions as possible : p