[DTK] Dragons of Tarkir spoiler thread

[Barook]

The spoiler season starts tomorrow, so it's time for a thread.

Click for spoiler overview (http://www.mtgsalvation.com/spoilers/148-dragons-of-tarkir)

From the spoiled Maro article, we know that DTK is about allied color combinations.

The first card spoiled is irrelevant for Legacy.

[btm10]

Allied color combinations sure makes it seem like we'll be seeing the Ice Age painlands in DTK or M16 (M16 is the last Core Set, right? Or was M15 the last one?).

[Barook]

M15 was the last "core set". This years' filler set before switching to the two-block model next year is Origins, which is basically a planeswalker circlejerk.

Since DTK and Origins are going to be their own "block", I could see some allied color support happening in those sets land-wise.

[lyracian]

M15 was the last "core set". This years' filler set before switching to the two-block model next year is Origins, which is basically a planeswalker circlejerk.
I guess it depends what marketing you read as to whether Origins is a "core set" or a "stand alone set".


Magic Origins is a new core set that reveals the origin stories of five iconic Planeswalkers: Gideon Jura, Jace Beleren, Liliana Vess, Chandra Nalaar, and Nissa Revane.

[Sylphnir]

The first card spoiled is irrelevant for Legacy.
Basic lands will never be irrelevant! :tongue:

[TsumiBand]

Because God forbid Black get a decent board wipe or something, heh. How weirdly over-conditional.

"When this ETB, **IF** you didn't shenanigans it into play **AND** your opponent overextended, Duneblast."

[Cire]

Because God forbid Black get a decent board wipe or something, heh. How weirdly over-conditional.

"When this ETB, **IF** you didn't shenanigans it into play **AND** your opponent overextended, Duneblast."

Not just overextended . . . Massively overextend. . .

Imagine the feel bad if you have an empty board your opponent is staring you down with 4 creatures and you . . . top deck this. :frown:

[lyracian]

Not just overextended . . . Massively overextend. . .
Imagine the feel bad if you have an empty board your opponent is staring you down with 4 creatures and you . . . top deck this. :frown:

I believe it counts itself when it enters the battlefield so opponent having 4 creatures is what you want. :smile:
This could happen with UB Control vs Mono-Red; of course living to have seven mana to cast the Dragon might be unlikely...

[TsumiBand]

Eh yeah I mean it will count itself and whatever you control too, so it isn't entirely on the opponent to control a bunch of dudes, but like why you gotta Wraff yourself too.

Also I guess probably Kaalia is a thing in EDH* and it's not great if she gets a 'before blockers' Wrath effect, or something. Guess Archfiend of Depravity will have to suffice.

It's weird because players tend to bitch about enablers, right - Emrakul isn't the problem, Show and Tell is the problem - and so the ways in which Wizards plays it safe is weird when the creature is already "enabler-proofed". It's like... big stupid beaters with Annihilator 7 and whatnot are disliked for being too good with cheatyface cards, but like anything that's clearly created to not work with cheatyface cards just end up schlocky like this weird dagron over here. There's no median! Poooooooooop

* - by which I mean, kids hate Kaalia because they have no idea how Magic works and she's just super unfair because she puts big guys into play and meanwhile some mono-green deck is like "...so turn 2 sacrifice Arbor Dryad to Natural Order for Vorinclex" and kids be "oh sweet" because hey it's Forests

[Cire]

opps - didn't see that it counted itself.

Also more cards up!! Rebound is back!

Exploit is pretty dumb as an ability - and Megamorph is even dumber. . . edit: and formidable is dumber still. . . .

[Shawon]

I believe it counts itself when it enters the battlefield so opponent having 4 creatures is what you want. :smile:
This could happen with UB Control vs Mono-Red; of course living to have seven mana to cast the Dragon might be unlikely...

The (unofficial) text on the spoiler says "five or more other creatures..."

Rebound (mechanic from Zendikar/Alara?) is back and in Jeskai.

http://mythicspoiler.com/dtk/cards/sidisiundeadvizier.jpg

A breakthrough in terms of getting ETB Demonic tutor effects. I believe Sidisi 2.0 can exploit itself to get the search trigger.

http://mythicspoiler.com/dtk/cards/dragonlordsilumgar.jpg

Steal your Jace/Liliana/Ugin?

[Ace/Homebrew]

and Megamorph is even dumber...
Megamorph seems fine as far as what it does, it is just an unnecessary stupid name. They could have left it as just 'morph' and added the text granting the counter.

I mean, why not use really ferocious instead of formidable? Doesn't WotC want new players to understand the two are related? How else will they know that? :eyebrow:

[Cire]

Megamorph seems fine as far as what it does, it is just an unnecessary stupid name. They could have left it as just 'morph' and added the text granting the counter.

I mean, why not use really ferocious instead of formidable?

I mean that's why its so dumb . . . its completely unnecessary.

As for formidable . . . it's so ridiculously win more that I don't understand how it works as a whole mechanic.

[Ace/Homebrew]

As for formidable . . . it's so ridiculously win more that I don't understand how it works as a whole mechanic.
They needed a mechanic that encourages over-extending so the set promo is slightly better than worthless! :wink:

[iamajellydonut]

And then, the dumbest fucking thing to ever be printed in a TCG.

http://i.imgur.com/kVIKKpF.png

[H]

And then, the dumbest fucking thing to ever be printed in a TCG.

http://i.imgur.com/kVIKKpF.png

I was digging around and I just found this art, must be for a new card in this set:

http://i.imgur.com/lBo8NRv.jpg

[Cire]

I was digging around and I just found this art, must be for a new card in this set:
....

Wrong art

http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20081030224019/yugioh/images/9/9e/Megamorph-TP4-NA-SR-UE.jpg

[iamajellydonut]

I was digging around and I just found this art, must be for a new card in this set:

...

Well done, men. Pack it. Ship it. Sell it.

[wcm8]

I believe Sidisi 2.0 can exploit itself to get the search trigger.

Correct, as this particular use was described in one of the articles from the Mothership website. So yes, Exploit can be used on the creature itself with the keyword.

My assumption is that this means we will get a whole bunch of Black/maybe Blue/possibly Green creatures with Exploit (since Exploit seems to be coming from the Sultai clan) that essentially have classic Spells attached to their body -- which is 'powered up' if you can exploit a cheaper creature/token you already have, and can be especially powered-up if you have some method of recurring the ability via Flicker effects or similar.

It's not too far removed from Evoke as a mechanic, wherein a classic Spell happened to be linked to the body of a creature; the problem here is that it looks like you can't get the Spell effect at a reduced rate minus the body, as the only choice presented is whether you keep the Exploiting creature or end up tossing an alternative creature already on the battlefield. So for example, there's no way to get Demonic Tutor at a reduced rate here, instead you still have to pay a minimum of 5 mana, 4/6 deathtouch body or no.

As for any potential Legacy applications of this mechanic, I'm not so sure as it seems like more of a Limited (draft/sealed) type of mechanic that will probably be attached to higher costing creatures. However, a card like Bitterblossom is one method of feeding the mechanic without having to lose the attached creature with Exploit, so if there happens to be a particularly powerful effect attached to a powerful-enough body at a reasonable cost, this might be one method getting the best of both worlds without having to chuck your own precious Deathrite Shamans.

edit: Just based on looking at the two creatures spoiled here, perhaps in Limited Blue will have a lot of temporary Steal ("Control Magic-esque") effects, and then Black will have Exploit, wherein you end up sacrificing the opponent's temporarily stolen assets -- while this doesn't quite fuel your graveyard for Delve, it *does* provide a nasty/semi-clever method of removal in the Blue/Black realm. Not so sure if Green will inherit anything from 'Sultai', as it appears that they are limiting this set towards being Ally-colored... so anything 'clan' related will likely be in fractured terms.

[H]

Well done, men. Pack it. Ship it. Sell it.

There's an Easter egg in the rules article that shows you the developer notes for the mechanics. This is what it says:

D1: new morph mechanic, makes creatures BIGGER!!!1!!1

D2: need new name for this morph mechanic.

D1: how about MEGAMORPH!

D2: we need something that doesn't sound like a Pixar movie, any other ideas?

D3: guys, it doesn't matter what the hell we call it, people will just buy this shit.

D4: he's right, plus, think how funny it will be when people have to spend months on end saying megamorph and trying to pretend it doesn't make them sound like an idiot!

[iamajellydonut]

D4: he's right, plus, think how funny it will be when people have to spend months on end saying megamorph and trying to pretend it doesn't make them sound like an idiot!

This is probably my favorite take on the matter, and it's the first one I went to. It reminds me a lot of Trey Parker and Matt Stone commenting on the gratuitous sex scene in Team America and how it gave them immense joy just to have MPAA repeatedly watch a variety of lewd and obscene acts performed by puppets.

Casters are going to have to seriously say "Megamorph" for the better part of the year thanks to some asshole with a brilliant sense of humor.

[joven]

D4: he's right, plus, think how funny it will be when people have to spend months on end saying megamorph and trying to pretend it doesn't make them sound like an idiot!

You cast it as a simple morph, so you say "I cast a morph". When I flip morphs or then megamorphs most of the time I say "I flip this". (Well, maybe I should note that English is not my first language. ;) )

[H]

This is probably my favorite take on the matter, and it's the first one I went to. It reminds me a lot of Trey Parker and Matt Stone commenting on the gratuitous sex scene in Team America and how it gave them immense joy just to have MPAA repeatedly watch a variety of lewd and obscene acts performed by puppets.

Casters are going to have to seriously say "Megamorph" for the better part of the year thanks to some asshole with a brilliant sense of humor.

I'm generally not one to complain about the game, because in the end, it really is a kids game, but man, it seems like lately they have really been phoning in a whole bunch of stuff. From art to mechanics too.

I get that everything can't be a home run, but some of this new stuff is worse than a check-swing dribbler where you pretend to come up with a pulled hamstring a quarter-way down the line...

[Ace/Homebrew]

You cast it as a simple morph, so you say "I cast a morph". When I flip morphs or then megamorphs most of the time I say "I flip this". (Well, maybe I should note that English is not my first language. ;) )
You may be wrong from a rules lawyer perspective... Morph and Megamorph are two different mechanics. If you play a megamorph creature face-down for 3 and say "I play a morph creature", are you technically providing your opponent with false information?

Edit: Also, is 'unmorphing' actually a thing? Or is it always just morph? The only thing better than megamorphing is unmegamorphing!

[Spam]

This gives me hope for a "SuperStorm" or "HipperThreshold" ability in the future)))

[joven]

You may be wrong from a rules lawyer perspective... Morph and Megamorph are two different mechanics. If you play a megamorph creature face-down for 3 and say "I play a morph creature", are you technically providing your opponent with false information?

Edit: Also, is 'unmorphing' actually a thing? Or is it always just morph? The only thing better than megamorphing is unmegamorphing!

Read the cards and/or the rules (e.g. Article 'Mechanics of Dragons of Tarkir' on DailyMTG). Megamorphs are cast as normal morphs and just get a +1/+1 when you turn them face-up by paying their Megamorph cost. You even use the normal Morph marker card.
EDIT: I think they said it is intentional that you can't differentiate between a facedown morph and a facedown megamorph. And I think that makes sense, although morphs and megamorphs won't really meet in Limited.

And I don't think there is a thing called 'unmorphing'.

[joven]

This gives me hope for a "SuperStorm" or "HipperThreshold" ability in the future)))

Funny, but I think you mean "HyperThreshold".

[rufus]

...
A breakthrough in terms of getting ETB Demonic tutor effects. I believe Sidisi 2.0 can exploit itself to get the search trigger.
...

Even chain with Rooftop Storm,...

[TsumiBand]

Megamorph is one of those names that feels like it came out of R&D testing some "morph with a twist" mechanic and were unable to come up with a better name than the test name. Here's hoping for more quality technology such as Kithkincycling, Hyperbuyback, Kickerer, Thrashold, Helldjent, and others!

Having said this, I do like the guy that flips into a 3/2 and counters target instant/sorc. He's not beast mode good, but I'd love to be able to play something like Fish in Standard, just to be That Effin Guy, and he's about on par with what I'd expect a 'nu-Fish' character to be. No I'm not saying he's Legacy-good, just that it appeals to me.

[adrieng]

The black creature demonic tutor seems good in food chain right ?
and in commander maybe

[iamajellydonut]

I mean, it's not like Rune-Scarred Demon doesn't already exist. Slightly different mana costs, sure, but when you're getting into the realm of 5-7 mana I feel like some of the differences blur.

[Barook]

Exploit has potential, but the problem for its Legacy playability is that it most likely costs much more than the original spell, making it essentially unplayable in Legacy. I wouldn't say no a few nice GSZ targets.

That said, one thing that bothers me about the flavor: How can you exploit yourself? :really:

On a different note:

I don't get the bitching about Megamorph.

It's clearly a story tie-in to Return to Zendikar, because after 10000 years, the Eldrazi broke free. And now Wizards tries to broaden their audience by recruiting teenagers with attitude.

How can you not love it when people scream "It's morphin time!" or "We need Megamorph power right now!" all the time in Draft?

Official DTK Theme (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZtzn5GQOng)

PS : This also confirms that Return to Zendikar is going to feature a variant of the level up mechanic since they can't pass up the chance for Standard to make people scream "Make my monster grow!".

[joven]

Exploit has potential, but the problem for its Legacy playability is that it most likely costs much more than the original spell, making it essentially unplayable in Legacy. I wouldn't say no a few nice GSZ targets.

That said, one thing that bothers me about the flavor: How can you exploit yourself? :really:


I'd say your Dragonlord does that for you. ;)

Where is it written that Exploit is always meant that the creature with the Exploit ability is exploiting others. It could also imply exploitability.
Also, you could sacrifice yourself for some cause or do something like overworking yourself, not taking care of yourself and just overly focusing on the task till you die.

[TsumiBand]

I mean, it's not like Rune-Scarred Demon doesn't already exist. Slightly different mana costs, sure, but when you're getting into the realm of 5-7 mana I feel like some of the differences blur.

Yeah but Sidisi 2.0 can self-sacrifice, so you've got Johnny combo fest going on with, like, all kinds of shit. Athreos? Phyrexian Reclamation? Err... Nim Deathmantle? :/ Anything that can play with the graveyard and wouldn't mind some way to recur a tutor without also having to assemble a tertiary sacrifice outlet, I suppose. It turns any number of 3-card combos involving creature recursion into 2-card combos, and that is a good thing. (depending on who you ask)

I've seen RSD sparingly in stuff like ICBM Oath but that's Vintage, and for my part I've wanted to shave some off the top of RSD's casting cost in EDH in a lot of my 'less unfair' brews.

[Aggro_zombies]

Exploit has potential, but the problem for its Legacy playability is that it most likely costs much more than the original spell, making it essentially unplayable in Legacy. I wouldn't say no a few nice GSZ targets.
There won't be any GSZ targets. Exploit will only be on blue and black cards because it's the Silumgar mechanic.

Also, there was already an opportunity to scream, "Make my monster grow!": Monstrosity, in Theros block. It's even in the same Standard as megamorph!

As for the mechanics:

Lots of derivative stuff here. Exploit feels like it's just an awkward way to word EtB effects so that other cards can care about it ("When a creature is exploited, do X"), but I don't see there being a ton of room for cards like that in two colors in this set - though there will likely be some at uncommon to act as draft build-arounds. Megamorph is a letdown, but I don't see where they could have taken regular morph that wouldn't have been confusing, wordy, gimmicky, or some combination of the above, and megamorph at least gets points for having a clean execution. Rebound coming back is interesting if for no other reason than the fact that the Jeskai/Ojutai are the only clan to not get a fresh keyword at some point in the block. They said they specifically avoided doing that for the Ravnica guilds in RtR because players would be mad if their guild got shafted with a returning instead of a new keyword, so I wonder what changed their math here. Rebound is still fine; one of my favorite draft decks of all time was a Grixis Control deck from Rise that made great use of rebound removal spells, so I'm looking forward to seeing what they do with it here. Formidable is so whatever I had to look up the card to even remember what the mechanic is named, but in that respect it's a good follow-up to ferocious, so at least they're consistent.

Bolster and dash are known quantities.

None of the cards spoiled today are realistically Legacy-playable, although Dragonlord Silumgar might make a splash in Standard control builds that have ways to protect him from all the removal floating around right now. Also - amusingly - if you zoom in on the art, Silumgar appears to be wearing a now-mummified Tasigur as a necklace.

[Barook]

Also - amusingly - if you zoom in on the art, Silumgar appears to be wearing a now-mummified Tasigur as a necklace.
This is awesome.

http://media.wizards.com/2015/images/daily/cardart_dF4BEx30Wj.jpg

As for the RtR guild things, they probably backed down since their mechanics were extremely subpar compared what the original Ravnica had to offer. Plus, people were pretty pissed that some of the guild mechanics worked poorly with the original mechanic.

I would take good cards with reused mechanics over new crap that's horrible every day.

[tescrin]

I think Stratus Dancer will see play in UWx control (not miracles.) Even if it's a bit slow, card advantage and evasiveness are great, and SFM neutralizes the problems of having the front side of it be just a 2/2. Not to mention that your stapled-counterspell is very difficult to counter. Could this be the first legacy playable morph creature?

I'd note that having what is essentially a mediocre mid-range beater that happens to have legs against late-game combo is pretty sweet. Seems good against Miracles and I'd relate it to blue's Aven Mindcensor (I.E. not the most standout card out there, but an evasive generalist mid-range guy)

I guess the main argument against him is that's probably Clique's spot, and Clique is likely to be better. Anyway, I could see myself trying it out.

[Aggro_zombies]

I think Stratus Dancer will see play in UWx control (not miracles.) Even if it's a bit slow, card advantage and evasiveness are great, and SFM neutralizes the problems of having the front side of it be just a 2/2. Not to mention that your stapled-counterspell is very difficult to counter. Could this be the first legacy playable morph creature?
Exalted Angel was playable once upon a time.

Also, this guy just flips up into an Insectile Aberration, which isn't great when you could run Delver and have that body turns earlier. I don't think a better Spell Pierce is necessarily worth having a three-mana 2/2 body that you probably can't play until turn five.

[Barook]

I agree with Aggro_zombies.

5 mana for a mere Delver isn't that great. As for the CA, we already have enough cards in Legacy that cost 3 mana max to generate one-time card advantage. 5 mana just doesn't cut it.

[Cire]

I'm actually fundamentally disappointed Megmorph wasn't

Ultramorph X - Cost (You may cast this card face down as a 2/2 creature for 3. Turn it face up any time for its ultramorph cost and put X +1/+1 counters on it.)

Still would have been stupid - but would have, at least, much more design space.

[joven]

As for the mechanics:

Lots of derivative stuff here. Exploit feels like it's just an awkward way to word EtB effects so that other cards can care about it ("When a creature is exploited, do X"), but I don't see there being a ton of room for cards like that in two colors in this set - though there will likely be some at uncommon to act as draft build-arounds. Megamorph is a letdown, but I don't see where they could have taken regular morph that wouldn't have been confusing, wordy, gimmicky, or some combination of the above, and megamorph at least gets points for having a clean execution. Rebound coming back is interesting if for no other reason than the fact that the Jeskai/Ojutai are the only clan to not get a fresh keyword at some point in the block. They said they specifically avoided doing that for the Ravnica guilds in RtR because players would be mad if their guild got shafted with a returning instead of a new keyword, so I wonder what changed their math here. Rebound is still fine; one of my favorite draft decks of all time was a Grixis Control deck from Rise that made great use of rebound removal spells, so I'm looking forward to seeing what they do with it here. Formidable is so whatever I had to look up the card to even remember what the mechanic is named, but in that respect it's a good follow-up to ferocious, so at least they're consistent.


- Exploit is indeed just a EtB with feeding the graveyard attached maybe enabling some stronger or unusual effects, at least has nice flavor
- Megamorph is maybe ok considering the "block complexity argument", but the name is just dumb, also I'm sad that they didn't do Spellmorph (what I predicted)
- Rebound is just good synergy with Prowess which isn't that easy to get (they couldn't use Flashback or Buyback)
- Formidable seems stupid, it's like Ferocious but twice as bad. In retrospect I actually liked Ferocious. Some of the spells with it were neat cards at least in Limited (Barrage of Boulders, Roar of Challenge, Stubborn Denial, Temur Battle Rage and of course Savage Punch), but assembling 8 total power is just soo conditional and "winmore" (you need multiple powerful creatures).

[tescrin]

I agree with Aggro_zombies.

5 mana for a mere Delver isn't that great. As for the CA, we already have enough cards in Legacy that cost 3 mana max to generate one-time card advantage. 5 mana just doesn't cut it.

I'm just thinking we already pay 5+ when using SFM for 1-time CA and her body is terrible to boot. I think it's relevant that it's a 2-mana counter to Delver as well. It's less that each of the examples are specifically great, and more that it's a pretty general counter to *a lot* of things in legacy. While it doesn't do all of these roles amazingly, it seems that it does them all competently. Anyway, I think I'll be trying it out. People said Tasigur was garbage when I was beating my chest about him, I think this guy could have a similar (that is, limited) impact on legacy.

[joven]

I'm actually fundamentally disappointed Megmorph wasn't

Ultramorph X - Cost (You may cast this card face down as a 2/2 creature for 3. Turn it face up any time for its ultramorph cost and put X +1/+1 counters on it.)

Still would have been stupid - but would have, at least, much more design space.

So every ultramorph is a hydra!? Strange flavor. And where is that design space? The difference between morphs usually comes from the body and the trigger when turned face-up.

[Cire]

So every ultramorph is a hydra!? Strange flavor. And where is that design space? The difference between morphs usually comes from the body and the trigger when turned face-up.

Not hydra. . . just variable numbers so instead of always getting +1/+1 one, it could say Ultramorph 3 - when you unmorph put 3 counters on this.

Edit: probably should have used the letter N to represent variable number than X

[joven]

Not hydra. . . just variable numbers so instead of always getting +1/+1 one, it could say Ultramorph 3 - when you unmorph put 3 counters on this.

Edit: probably should have used the letter N to represent variable number than X

Ah ok, I think WotC don't always get that it would make more sense to define the abilities in a more abstract manner, maybe because of kiddie complexity reasons. For example I would have wished for "Delve N" to limit the number of cards you can remove to reduce the cost. That would have made it possible to not ridiculously overcost every Delve card. More control and more flexibility for design. On the other hand they could attach the N in the future and keep the Delve without N standing for unlimited number of cards.

[Cire]

A lot of mechanics would have been improved with an N - ******** chief among them I think.

Edit - I don't know why the mechanic on werebear got blocked ??

[Barook]

I'm just thinking we already pay 5+ when using SFM for 1-time CA and her body is terrible to boot. I think it's relevant that it's a 2-mana counter to Delver as well. It's less that each of the examples are specifically great, and more that it's a pretty general counter to *a lot* of things in legacy. While it doesn't do all of these roles amazingly, it seems that it does them all competently. Anyway, I think I'll be trying it out. People said Tasigur was garbage when I was beating my chest about him, I think this guy could have a similar (that is, limited) impact on legacy.
Wrong - you pay :1::w: to get CA with SFM. Everything else is just additional cost cheating while making it uncounterable.

I was in the Tasigur camp, too, since how can a 1-mana Goyf with text be bad?

But I rest my case: This card seems underwhelming for Legacy.

[Spam]

Funny, but I think you mean "HyperThreshold".

Yep, you're right. Sorry for my typo.


Exploit has potential, but the problem for its Legacy playability is that it most likely costs much more than the original spell, making it essentially unplayable in Legacy. I wouldn't say no a few nice GSZ targets.

That said, one thing that bothers me about the flavor: How can you exploit yourself? :really:

On a different note:

I don't get the bitching about Megamorph.

It's clearly a story tie-in to Return to Zendikar, because after 10000 years, the Eldrazi broke free. And now Wizards tries to broaden their audience by recruiting teenagers with attitude.

How can you not love it when people scream "It's morphin time!" or "We need Megamorph power right now!" all the time in Draft?

Official DTK Theme (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZtzn5GQOng)

PS : This also confirms that Return to Zendikar is going to feature a variant of the level up mechanic since they can't pass up the chance for Standard to make people scream "Make my monster grow!".

So I wasn't the only one who thought about the Rangers!
At the moment I don't see anything that would actually be that good in Legacy, and these mechanics looks really like: "meh, stay in Standard".
Oh, well, maybe they are saving the "bombs" for later and I'm an idiot.
However, if this babe hits the ground, I'll play standard!

https://theisaacs22.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/megazord.jpg

[HdH_Cthulhu]

Exploit seems great in all mikaeus, the unhallowed EDH decks.

[Meekrab]

- Formidable seems stupid, it's like Ferocious but twice as bad. In retrospect I actually liked Ferocious. Some of the spells with it were neat cards at least in Limited (Barrage of Boulders, Roar of Challenge, Stubborn Denial, Temur Battle Rage and of course Savage Punch), but assembling 8 total power is just soo conditional and "winmore" (you need multiple powerful creatures).
8 total power (on both sides of the board, even) happens basically every game in Limited and a lot of midrange vs. midrange games in Standard.

[wcm8]

Regarding Stratus Dancer: isn't the only way to 'counter' a Megamorph activation is by playing a card like Stifle, since morphing is what I assume to be a triggered effect?

Since very few combo decks run Stifle, then this card is pretty much like a Counterflux or Last Word against a critical Sorcery/Instant (e.g.: Show and Tell, Exhume, Natural Order, etc.) and it also leaves behind a Delver body to mop up their life total.

It's likely too slow for Legacy outside of fighting Miracles.dec, but I suppose it could be decent in a slightly slower format like Modern. In Legacy, tapping out on turn 3 for a Grey Ogre is pretty much a death sentence against most combo decks unless you are holding a full grip of FoW/Daze. But from there, it's pretty nice insurance against anything problematic.

And as mentioned before, it'd be sort of nice to have as a sideboard threat against Miracles since you can still beat down with the 2/2 gradually, and morph it if they decide to cast anything problematic (and Counterbalance does nothing to stop it countering their Terminus or whatever since the morphing isn't really a spell, and is instead a triggered ability).

Needless to say, but cards like Meddling Mage, Containment Priest, and Vendilion Clique are more immediate in their disruptive element and thus better Legacy cards. But I am open to the possibility of there being a Legacy-playable megamorpher.

[HdH_Cthulhu]

Regarding Stratus Dancer: isn't the only way to 'counter' a Megamorph activation is by playing a card like Stifle, since morphing is what I assume to be a triggered effect?
.

Actually morphing is NOT a triggered ability (goes even around split second) however after they Megamorph you can Stifle the trigger when Stratus...
Just look at "when" "whenever" or "at" eg. you cant do much if someone flips up vesuvan shapeshifter but you can prevent him from turning face down in the upkeep!

[Ziveeman]

http://cdn.magicspoiler.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Thunderbreak-Regent.jpg

Flying
Whenever a dragon you control becomes the target of a spell or ability an opponent controls, Thunderbreak Regent deals 3 damage to that player.

Clearly fits in a Dragon stompy shell. Thoughts?

[Jamaican Zombie Legend]

Another illustrious addition to the "Whenever someone does something, LIGHTNING BOLT THEM IN THE FACE!" school of designing cards for Red.

Thanks Wizards!

[Lemnear]

WotC take on Sultai: Print 1cc blue Ancestral Recalls and 5cc black Demonic Tutors ...

[MaximumC]

That red Dragon seems very good. 4/4 with flying that does not "die to removal?" (It does something even if they nuke it from orbit before you untap). It's in the right colors and at the right cost to be considered in Dragon Stompy. I'm a huge fan!

Everything else from the set has been pretty "meh" from an Eternal standpoint so far, but fingers crossed.

[H]

http://i.imgur.com/C7MCS5n.png

New Commands are interesting (although, almost certainly not for Legacy).

Obviously the Blue ones will be poo-trash in comparison to the One-True Crypic, but I am interested in how the other 3 come out.

[Barook]

The number of shitty dragons spoiled so far scares me. I hope they don't just rely on their dragon gimmick to sell their set.

I have the feeling that none of those commands are going to be Legacy-playable.

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/thumbnails/67/931/200/283/635609745908236562.png

GSZ-able Biorhythm. Not sure if there's any use for that.

[T-101]

New Commands could be cool. The UW one doesn't set a powerful precedent, but if there's a Delve X command, or CMC 3 or less Command, I'd probably try to use it.

Sadly, nothing quite playable yet, but we still got most of a big set to go.

[iamajellydonut]

GSZ-able Biorhythm. Not sure if there's any use for that.

I feel like when you have 11 available mana and eight power represented on the board, you kind of don't need anything else.

[MaximumC]

The number of shitty dragons spoiled so far scares me. I hope they don't just rely on their dragon gimmick to sell their set.

I have the feeling that none of those commands are going to be Legacy-playable.

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/thumbnails/67/931/200/283/635609745908236562.png

GSZ-able Biorhythm. Not sure if there's any use for that.

The Dragons are actually pretty awesome for non-eternal formats. They're printing a lot of them with air-elemental-like stats plus good abilities. The red one in particular seems very good. Just... not for us.

The Command cycle remains to be seen. Charms are nice. The problem with this first one is that the modes are nowhere near as versatile as the Commands form Lorywn. Narrow countermagic, narrow reanimation, life gain and cantrip. This is a far cry form having a solution to any problem from the battlefield or stack on tap. Now, I will grant that there is no other cantrip re-animator spell that I know of. This suggests that it might do something kind of unique. Other than reanimating your Lorescale Coatl as a 3/3, though, I don't see an immediate use for that.

Shaman is interesting. He seems like he could be a win condition in Mono-green Nyxthos. I guess he potentially wins on the spot, as opposed to creatures that require an attack step. But, only being able to do this once you reach Formidable, the fact that he's a crappy enabler for Nyxthos himself, and that mono green does a crappy job of removing opposing creatures makes me think this card is poop.

[Barook]

New Commands could be cool. The UW one doesn't set a powerful precedent, but if there's a Delve X command, or CMC 3 or less Command, I'd probably try to use it.

Sadly, nothing quite playable yet, but we still got most of a big set to go.
There's no Delve in the set, just saying.

And Profane Command was the only command with a CMC of 3, except it kinda sucks at that level. I doubt they're going for Cryptic powerlevel, and that one isn't Legacy-playable.

[Razorwynd]

Shaman is interesting. He seems like he could be a win condition in Mono-green Nyxthos. I guess he potentially wins on the spot, as opposed to creatures that require an attack step. But, only being able to do this once you reach Formidable, the fact that he's a crappy enabler for Nyxthos himself, and that mono green does a crappy job of removing opposing creatures makes me think this card is poop.

I could imagine a world in which the shaman is really powerful in an elves style deck with concordant cross roads. Even if they do have a creature you can just finish them off with a DRS activation or two... It may not be better than craterhoof but it is definitely scary

[Lemnear]

What the fuck is going on with WotC and this set? Looks like we get 5 mono-colored dragons, 5 two-mana clan combination dragons and 5 legendary Dragons with also clan mana? What is this? Kaalia: The Expansion?

[Phoenix Ignition]

My prediction for a soon to be spoiled card:

Double Dragon Command:
Choose Dragon/Dragon:
Dragon creatures Dragon while Dragoning Dragons.
Dragons all gain "Dragon" (Dragons dragon dragon).
All dragons gain double dragon until end of dragon.
Until the end of the game gain a Dragon Emblem that says "Whenever you Dragon a Dragon, Dragon Creatures you control Dragon an additional Dragon unless target opponent Dragons Dragons"

[Spam]

My prediction for a soon to be spoiled card:

Double Dragon Command:
Choose Dragon/Dragon:
Dragon creatures Dragon while Dragoning Dragons.
Dragons all gain "Dragon" (Dragons dragon dragon).
All dragons gain double dragon until end of dragon.
Until the end of the game gain a Dragon Emblem that says "Whenever you Dragon a Dragon, Dragon Creatures you control Dragon an additional Dragon unless target opponent Dragons Dragons"
Finally a card that makes some sense!

[phonics]

The number of shitty dragons spoiled so far scares me. I hope they don't just rely on their dragon gimmick to sell their set.

I have the feeling that none of those commands are going to be Legacy-playable.

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/thumbnails/67/931/200/283/635609745908236562.png

GSZ-able Biorhythm. Not sure if there's any use for that.

There is a reason those ways were forgotten.

[Echelon]

My prediction for a soon to be spoiled card:

Double Dragon Command:
Choose Dragon/Dragon:
Dragon creatures Dragon while Dragoning Dragons.
Dragons all gain "Dragon" (Dragons dragon dragon).
All dragons gain double dragon until end of dragon.
Until the end of the game gain a Dragon Emblem that says "Whenever you Dragon a Dragon, Dragon Creatures you control Dragon an additional Dragon unless target opponent Dragons Dragons"

The puns just drag on and on! Oh, wait...

[Lemnear]

The puns just drag on and on! Oh, wait...

Well played, sir

Edit: I just count the days until someone suggests playing one or the other Dragon in Elves "because GSZ/NO/much mana"

[Echelon]

Thank you, kind sir :laugh:


Edit: I just count the days until someone suggests playing one or the other Dragon in Elves "because GSZ/NO/much mana"

Fuck, yes!

[Dice_Box]

From what I have seen so far, this is the set from this block I will not be drafting. Just doesn't seem all that exciting.

[MD.Ghost]

Well played, sir

Edit: I just count the days until someone suggests playing one or the other Dragon in Elves "because GSZ/NO/much mana"

Remember the old days: Predator Dragon

[Sylphnir]

If Dromoka or Atarka happen to be better game ender than Craterhoof Behemoth/Progenitus I'd see no reason to NOT play them in elves though.
Not that I expect that to happen.
I'd be happy if Dromoka is around Sigarda, Host of Herons powerlevel and I'm ready to be disappointed considering the spoiled Silumgar and Kolaghan.

[Lemnear]

Remember the old days: Predator Dragon

I don't remember ever seeing that one ... but, lol

P.S. See you in Lille?

[MD.Ghost]

I don't remember ever seeing that one ... but, lol

P.S. See you in Lille?

That's the plan!

EDIT: The Dragon was one of the old ways to kill the enemy, but as most old stuff it is totally outdated now - for Dromoka or Atarka i don't have much hope, because non of them will get a "haste" ability (see BR Dragons) and i don't see other special stuff that help with in a matchup like miracle etc.

[Dice_Box]

Just had a thought, took em a touch shy of 12 years, but we did finally get that "Dragon Set" we were all promised back in Scourge.

[(nameless one)]

What the fuck is going on with WotC and this set? Looks like we get 5 mono-colored dragons, 5 two-mana clan combination dragons and 5 legendary Dragons with also clan mana? What is this? Kaalia: The Expansion?

It is called Dragons of Tarkir

[Lemnear]

It is called Dragons of Tarkir

Nice excuse for wasting all rare slots on 5cc+ lame ass ability creatures. I wonder how drafts would look like...

[Zombie]

That's the plan!

EDIT: The Dragon was one of the old ways to kill the enemy, but as most old stuff it is totally outdated now - for Dromoka or Atarka i don't have much hope, because non of them will get a "haste" ability (see BR Dragons) and i don't see other special stuff that help with in a matchup like miracle etc.

That was before the deck was ported to Legacy, though, right? Ran an Entity+Grapeshot kill with the Extended version for a loong time.

[Sylphnir]

Hi Narset!
http://media.wizards.com/2015/dftyuvbd564776rvf/en_Q21slVTGSa.png

Narset Transcendent :2::w::u:
Planeswalker - Narset (Mythic Rare)
+1: Look at the top card of your library. If it's a noncreature, nonland card, you may reveal it and put it into your hand.
-2: When you cast your next instant or sorcery spell from your hand this turn, it gains rebound.
-9: You get an emblem with "Your opponents can't cast noncreature spells."
{6}

[Ace/Homebrew]

Hi Narset!
I am surprised her starting loyalty is so high, considering her +1 and -2 both generate card advantage.

[Lemnear]

Hi Narset!
http://media.wizards.com/2015/dftyuvbd564776rvf/en_Q21slVTGSa.png

Narset Transcendent :2::w::u:
Planeswalker - Narset (Mythic Rare)
+1: Look at the top card of your library. If it's a noncreature, nonland card, you may reveal it and put it into your hand.
-2: When you cast your next instant or sorcery spell from your hand this turn, it gains rebound.
-9: You get an emblem with "Your opponents can't cast noncreature spells."
{6}

This one is really good and comes with 6 fucking Loyalty! Carddraw and doubling Brainstorms/Plows/Judgements on demand with an Ultimate that locks opponents out of the game while you dominate the Board with Plows and Terminus? Sounds valid.

[TsumiBand]

Holy 6 loyalty, Batman!

Not bad, not bad. 6 starting loyalty is... kiiiind of like self-protecting on an empty board? She's not a pushover, I mean; 7 loyalty with a means to draw an answer to threats feels like 'self-protection' to me.

Ultimate is duuuuumb. Doubling Season/Narset combo!? Bant Lockdown?! Bant Stax??! Play that shit

EDIT: Holy shit, Lemnear likes a new Magic card. This means we can expect a $60 price point, looks like I'm working doubles for a while

[Ace/Homebrew]

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/attachments/137/293/635610590570763417.png

Looks good in Elves! because GSZ/NO/much mana. :tongue:

[Barook]

Narset seems pretty powerful, especially with the amount of dumb library manipulation we have in Legacy (Brainstorm and Top say "Hi!").

While she isn't Jace's powerlevel, could she complement him in certain decks?

[theBloody]

She can't defend herself. But 7 loyalties can do this trick. I guess she will see come play in control as 1 or 2 off.

EDIT: full art (http://media.wizards.com/2015/images/daily/cardart_Hrsrs9fBMI.jpg)

[HSCK]

Barook and Lemnear like a new card, this is a sign of the end times surely.

[GenghisTom]

Narset is going in the cube, that's for sure.
4cmc and 6 loyalty is certainly a base worth considering for Legacy, and even more so considering her non-ultimate abilities are already relevant in Miracles shell.

[Tylert]

Narset seems pretty powerful, especially with the amount of dumb library manipulation we have in Legacy (Brainstorm and Top say "Hi!").

While she isn't Jace's powerlevel, could she complement him in certain decks?

+1 card advantage comparing to +2 no card advantage of Jace to reach the ultimate. Also, the ultimate comes faster for Narset.
I guess she might be played (only in a removal heavy deck i guess so you can keep the board clean while your opponent can't cast non creature spells).

[rufus]

Yeah but Sidisi 2.0 can self-sacrifice, so you've got Johnny combo fest going on with, like, all kinds of shit. Athreos? Phyrexian Reclamation? Err... Nim Deathmantle? :/ Anything that can play with the graveyard and wouldn't mind some way to recur a tutor without also having to assemble a tertiary sacrifice outlet, I suppose. It turns any number of 3-card combos involving creature recursion into 2-card combos, and that is a good thing. (depending on who you ask) ....

If you clone new Sidisi, can the clone exploit the old one before the legend thing happens?

The only thing that really "makes sense" to me is Rooftop Storm + Sidisi jank piles that build into Gravespawn Sovereign and Havengul Lich to build a branching chain of Sidisi effects.

IMO the lack of self-protection makes Narset a 'lose more' card.

[Barook]

Aside from limited, one of the more interesting aspects of Exploit is how it works in Standard with Yasova Dragonclaw in Sultai. But that's limited to Standard since it costs a bazillion mana to pull off.

@rufus: Nope, that doesn't work. The legend rule is state-based, while Exploit is triggered (keyword: "when") and goes on the stack.

[Cire]

Aside from limited, one of the more interesting aspects of Exploit is how it works in Standard with Yasova Dragonclaw in Sultai. But that's limited to Standard since it costs a bazillion mana to pull off.

@rufus: Nope, that doesn't work. The legend rule is state-based, while Exploit is triggered (keyword: "when") and goes on the stack.

I guess if there is a 1-2 CC exploit card then it might go well with Treason effects in standard?

[Barook]

I guess if there is a 1-2 CC exploit card then it might go well with Treason effects in standard?
I can't think of a desirable effect in that cost range since they would probably overcost it to hell and back.

[H]

6 loyalty seems to yell PUSH to me. I mean, her abilities are OK to maybe good, so it looks to me like they just kept upping her Loyalty until the card became playable.

Maybe suitable for Modern, but I'm not even sure if she is too much better than Jace, Architect of Thought.

[rufus]

I guess if there is a 1-2 CC exploit card then it might go well with Treason effects in standard?

Bazaar Trader didn't make treason effects playable. Do we really expect an exploit card to be able to?

[Finn]

Get this one early, mates.

[Bosque]

Narset looks ok. Pretty sure it doesn't beat out Jace for slots in most existing decks, but I could see it being useful in Gold Digger that is heavily spell and removal reliant. Rebound on DTT, sure why not?

Too bad the rebound ability happens during mainphase or it'd be really fun to rebound Entreat the Angels.

Looks better for Modern honestly where Jace isn't an option.

[Meekrab]

Looks good in Elves! because GSZ/NO/much mana. :tongue:
Does "fights" include creature combat? Because if so that thing is just winning limited.

Narset already sold out at $40 on SCG, lol.

[Barook]

Narset looks ok. Pretty sure it doesn't beat out Jace for slots in most existing decks, but I could see it being useful in Gold Digger that is heavily spell and removal reliant. Rebound on DTT, sure why not?

Too bad the rebound ability happens during mainphase or it'd be really fun to rebound Entreat the Angels.

Looks better for Modern honestly where Jace isn't an option.
Modern spells are much weaker than Legacy.

It's probably going to be pretty expensive, since it should go straight into Standard Jeskai variants with lots of spells.

[FoolofaTook]

Narset seems pretty powerful, especially with the amount of dumb library manipulation we have in Legacy (Brainstorm and Top say "Hi!").

While she isn't Jace's powerlevel, could she complement him in certain decks?

She doesn't protect herself and her ultimate doesn't outright win the game.

She won't be good enough for Legacy even at 4cc.

[Jamaican Zombie Legend]

Narset's ultimate is incredibly stupid, likely from the same minds that came up with Omniscience and Enter the Infinite. Except for the fact that it's even worse because there are zero ways to interact with Emblems and this one basically reads "Opponents that aren't creature/midrange decks can't do shit."

Anti-fun personified, even more so than Iona. Real shame, because without this ultimate I think the card could have been a great design.

Obviously none of this bitching is in the context of competitive Magic, especially Legacy, where she'll eat Delvers to the face as she desperately draws cards or doubles cantrips, assuming she even sees play, with the ultimate never even a thought.


Nice excuse for wasting all rare slots on 5cc+ lame ass ability creatures. I wonder how drafts would look like...

I honestly wonder if they're trying to stuff the rare/mythic slot with tons of stupid Limited bombs, hoping to reach a critical mass where they all sort of balance out. Unsurprisingly, I'm pessimistic.

[TsumiBand]

She doesn't protect herself and her ultimate doesn't outright win the game.

She won't be good enough for Legacy even at 4cc.

How is 6 loyalty and a business-spell-drawing +1 not implicitly 'protected', though. I mean not to invoke a false comparison but Jace doesn't necessarily protect himself either (of course free Brainstorm is nuts) and he's got half the starting loyalty.

I mean I know that the biggest test a planeswalker needs to pass is the Hellbent Test, but also this one is a fair sight over the usual curve in terms of mana:loyalty. 7 loyalty for :2::w::u: is kind of a lot.


Narset's ultimate is incredibly stupid, likely from the same minds that came up with Omniscience and Enter the Infinite.

Ultimates are like Facebook comments - don't read them. They so rarely matter a damn, it may as well deal 1 damage to the opponent for each cell in their body, and it wouldn't matter because in 95% of games you won't get there.

Besides, the majority of games where a player does ultimate a 'walker, they typically just won. Unless it's a terribad walker like Tibbs or something. Like really, is this strictly more damning than a lot of other ultimates out there? Venser? Tamiyo? Jace? I don't know that the mechanism of the emblem is that crucial. vOv

[Holiday]

Dragonlord Kolaghan
4RB 6/5
Flying, Haste
Other creatures you control have haste.
Whenever an opponent casts a creature or planeswalker spell with the same name as a card in his graveyard, that player loses 10 life.


In other news, "Dragonlord Kolaghan" is an elder dragon that looks like a big stupid otter.
Lord Otter Dragon (http://moxes.genexcomics.com/14-articles/2177-mtgdtk-spoiler-exclusivo-de-dragons-of-tarkir-kolagan-senora-dragon)

[Lemnear]

EDIT: Holy shit, Lemnear likes a new Magic card. This means we can expect a $60 price point, looks like I'm working doubles for a while


Barook and Lemnear like a new card, this is a sign of the end times surely.

Not the end, like when I freaked out about Treasure Cruise the day it was spoilered, but this one is pretty nasty in Vintage for doubling Time Walks, Ancestral Recalls and Gushes. I expect a similar impact Dack had to fight Shops just this time pushing the active player.

It's nasty because, especially in vintage, the ultimate locks out your opponent from the Game as there are no creature based aggro or midrange decks on the top of the metagame (MUD aside) and you can even handle those via rebound Plows like I suggested for Legacy before. Doubt it can replace Jace in miracles because not closing out games and not getting miracles out of your hand. Maybe the home is somewhere else like in blades

I hate the ultimate for it's sheer one sided uninteractive nature completely annhilating anything that is not WotCs favorite cardtype


http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/attachments/137/293/635610590570763417.png

Looks good in Elves! because GSZ/NO/much mana. :tongue:

I love you guys

[FoolofaTook]

How is 6 loyalty and a business-spell-drawing +1 not implicitly 'protected', though. I mean not to invoke a false comparison but Jace doesn't necessarily protect himself either (of course free Brainstorm is nuts) and he's got half the starting loyalty.

I mean I know that the biggest test a planeswalker needs to pass is the Hellbent Test, but also this one is a fair sight over the usual curve in terms of mana:loyalty. 7 loyalty for :2::w::u: is kind of a lot.

Insectile Aberration, Tarmogoyf, germ token, etc.

She's not going to survive more than a turn or two and unlike Jace those turns aren't going to have a huge impact on the game state. She isn't going to save you when you need a creature removed right now or you're going to lose the way Jace does.

You can try her and see what happens and you might even get decent results but you will never get results as good as the ones you would have gotten if she was Jace instead. That's why she's not playable in Legacy.

You can't optionally play a worse card and profit from that endeavor when you have a strictly better option out there.

She wouldn't be better if her -2 was Twincast instead of Rebound.

[TsumiBand]

Insectile Aberration, Tarmogoyf, germ token, etc.

She's not going to survive more than a turn or two and unlike Jace those turns aren't going to have a huge impact on the game state. She isn't going to save you when you need a creature removed right now or you're going to lose the way Jace does.

You can try her and see what happens and you might even get decent results but you will never get results as good as the ones you would have gotten if she was Jace instead. That's why she's not playable in Legacy.

You can't optionally play a worse card and profit from that endeavor when you have a strictly better option out there.

She wouldn't be better if her -2 was Twincast instead of Rebound.

Right, I've heard of creatures.

As with all Blue cards, existing in the realm of deck manipulation is going to mean a higher likelihood of drawing The Thing You Need, so I'm not convinced that a turn's worth of damage doesn't have merit.

As for "just play Jace b/c Jace is JtMS and that's all you want" - I'm not sure what makes playing planeswalkers this either/or thing. It's like playing Chain Lightning and having someone say "Oh but your deck already has Lightning Bolt, why would you want to play Chain Lightning? You've got Lightning Bolt." I don't think there has been quite as strong a contender for a playable planeswalker in a very long time; Dack Fayden is showing in Counterburny/Young Pyro decks, kind of, but it isn't like the most compelling card slot of all time.

[death]

Unplayable but expect an article or two because profit.

[apple713]

Megamorph is retarded.. there is nothing mega about it except the amount it sucks... Coulda called it "puberty"

[MGB]

So Narset + CounterTop... probably in a Miracles shell.

Is she better than Jace or does she supplement Jace?

[FoolofaTook]

Right, I've heard of creatures.

As with all Blue cards, existing in the realm of deck manipulation is going to mean a higher likelihood of drawing The Thing You Need, so I'm not convinced that a turn's worth of damage doesn't have merit.

As for "just play Jace b/c Jace is JtMS and that's all you want" - I'm not sure what makes playing planeswalkers this either/or thing. It's like playing Chain Lightning and having someone say "Oh but your deck already has Lightning Bolt, why would you want to play Chain Lightning? You've got Lightning Bolt." I don't think there has been quite as strong a contender for a playable planeswalker in a very long time; Dack Fayden is showing in Counterburny/Young Pyro decks, kind of, but it isn't like the most compelling card slot of all time.

She only looks playable because she's blue and 4cc. The card advantage is conditional and it requires you to reveal the card. The Rebound is close to useless because Rebound is close to useless in Legacy. It probably has the most value in a red list for the extra damage but then you're talking UWr and even then why aren't you playing Ajani Vengeant alongside Jace if that's the case?

[twndomn]

4 Stasis
4 Ral Zarek
4 Narset Transcendent

You've heard it here First!

[wcm8]

I think Narset is probably more of a Modern card. In Legacy, she just seems to be 'win more', and is competing directly with Jace. There are hardly any decks that even run all 4 copies of Jace anymore, where maxing out would open up the possible consideration of rolling over into more planeswalkers. I could see her maybe taking the slot that Keranos occupies in certain sideboards, except that there are scenarios where Keranos is still better than Narset despite casting cost differences.

[Undomian]

I think Narset is probably more of a Modern card. In Legacy, she just seems to be 'win more', and is competing directly with Jace. There are hardly any decks that even run all 4 copies of Jace anymore, where maxing out would open up the possible consideration of rolling over into more planeswalkers. I could see her maybe taking the slot that Keranos occupies in certain sideboards, except that there are scenarios where Keranos is still better than Narset despite casting cost differences.

I'm not even sure it's ever better than Keranos. The only reason that card gets played is because nothing in the format can kill it, and Narset certainly fails that test. She is very pushed and might be playable in something, but I'm not entirely sure that something exists.

[Cire]

Risen Executioner 2BB
Creature - Zombie Warrior
Risen Executioner can't block.
Other Zombie creatures you control get +1/+1.
You may cast Risen Executioner from your graveyard if you pay 1 more to cast it for each other creature card in your graveyard.
4/3

Not a great card . . . but could work with Delve cards or something . . .

[aCatNamedBootsy]

Risen Executioner 2BB
Creature - Zombie Warrior
Risen Executioner can't block.
Other Zombie creatures you control get +1/+1.
You may cast Risen Executioner from your graveyard if you pay 1 more to cast it for each other creature card in your graveyard.
4/3

Not a great card . . . but could work with Delve cards or something . . .

Hopefully this means that between this set and MTG Origins that we'll get more zombies, preferably aggressively costed ones.

[phonics]

At first Narset looked interesting I think she is going to be a standard card, she has no board impact, her first ability isn't guaranteed CA and her second ability needs another spell to be cast to do anything, which makes it difficult to use the turn she is casted in mana tight formats like legacy, so most of the time she has to survive a turn before it works. By comparison Jace at its worst gets you the best of the top 3 cards or buys a ton of time by bouncing a threat. Even jace AOT usually does more. It seems like with Narset her deal is: let me live a turn and ill do something bonkers if you have something good in hand.

[Amon Amarth]

Holy crap Narset is pussssheeedddd, gives Jace a run for his money. First ability synergizes well with blue cantrips and Top and second ability is also good with cantrips and plow/bolt/etc. 6 loyalty is pretty high to start out with, 7 if you plus her. Like, how brutal of a 5th turn play is Narset into Path/Plow on their only guy and then rebound next turn. Basically, that Orim's Chants them. The -2 makes deck building interesting too, putting more emphasis on instant/sorcery based hate like Disenchant and friends. Plus that art is sweet.

[Dice_Box]

Not the end, like when I freaked out about Treasure Cruise the day it was spoilered, but this one is pretty nasty in Vintage for doubling Time Walks, Ancestral Recalls and Gushes. I expect a similar impact Dack had to fight Shops just this time pushing the active player.

It's nasty because, especially in vintage, the ultimate locks out your opponent from the Game as there are no creature based aggro or midrange decks on the top of the metagame (MUD aside) and you can even handle those via rebound Plows like I suggested for Legacy before. Doubt it can replace Jace in miracles because not closing out games and not getting miracles out of your hand. Maybe the home is somewhere else like in blades

I hate the ultimate for it's sheer one sided uninteractive nature completely annhilating anything that is not WotCs favorite cardtype



I love you guys

I did not think of it in vintage, but I can see the point. With White becoming a thing thanks to Mentor, This does look possibly playable there. Probe, token, Probe, Skull Clamp...

[Valtrix]

Anybody wish Narset's ult was "Opponents can't play creature spells"? I definitely read it that way first, and was like, "Sweet ult!" But then was severely disappointed.

[Barook]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B_RrZSHUoAAll1A.png

Not too sure about this one.

[thecrav]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B_RrZSHUoAAll1A.png

Not too sure about this one.

GREED:

Young Pyromancer / Monastery Mentor + The Red Rituals + this guy (possibly also Niv Magus elemental in case you didn't draw this guy)

[Echelon]

GREED:

Young Pyromancer / Monastery Mentor + The Red Rituals + this guy (possibly also Niv Magus elemental in case you didn't draw this guy)

Except Young Pyromancer doesn't care about *this guy* and none of the tokens have haste. So you want to pump a lot of resources in creating some tokens and having the Berserker run into a chump blocker? You might just as well play a number of rituals, Past in Flames those rituals and go for Empty the Warrens... Or a dude with infect and some pump-spells... Oh, wait...

[Jamaican Zombie Legend]

Ultimates are like Facebook comments - don't read them.

Ha ha! Sage advice!


They so rarely matter a damn, it may as well deal 1 damage to the opponent for each cell in their body, and it wouldn't matter because in 95% of games you won't get there.

Like I said, it's not about competitive Magic, my complaints pertain mostly to the casual sphere, especially in multiplayer.


Besides, the majority of games where a player does ultimate a 'walker, they typically just won.

Lately in my EDH experiences, that hasn't always been the case. With the proliferation of the Planeswalker cardtype (especially with different/new Walker subtypes), they're showing up in a lot more decks, and there are often gamestates in which there are multiple Planeswalkers out in play, sometimes with one player controlling multiple. The "new" Legend Rule also helped to increase the probability of such scenarios as well.

Sometimes there's not enough gas to neutralize any and every walker and an ultimate or two will fire. Most of them are either "deadly" only to one player (Jace, Ajani Vengeant, Bolas), only serve to power up the controlling player somewhat (Elspeth 1.0, Koth), or produce something downright laughable in the context of the format (three 1/1 Phages? a Serra Avatar token? 100 life? 20 P/T worth of Dragons? Yawn). Most of these don't end games...they're not Karn.


Unless it's a terribad walker like Tibbs or something. Like really, is this strictly more damning than a lot of other ultimates out there? Venser? Tamiyo? Jace? I don't know that the mechanism of the emblem is that crucial. vOv

Narset's ultimate basically shuts all opponents off from playing most Magic cards. It's backbreaking for many decks and horribly un-fun while adding nothing interesting to the game. I doubt it will be a huge problem, probably only torpedoing a few games here and there upon release before people adapt and she has a bulls-eye painted on her back, but the design is simply bad. Begs the same question as True Name Nemesis did...what were they thinking?

[Quizzlemanizzle]

http://i.imgur.com/C7MCS5n.png

New Commands are interesting (although, almost certainly not for Legacy).

Obviously the Blue ones will be poo-trash in comparison to the One-True Crypic, but I am interested in how the other 3 come out.

The first ability of this card is the good one.

Returning a Stoneforge Mystic, Tarmogoyf, Young Pyromancer, Dark Confidant, Snapcaster Mage, Delver of Secrets, Grim Lavamancer, Deathrite Shaman and so on is pretty great at instant speed also.

The life gain is niche. And the rest is basically Exclude for 1 more mana.

The power level of the card is still very high in the right deck.


"Counter your Tarmogoyf return my Snapcaster Mage from GY to battlefield and Bolt you." If you had 8 mana the snapcaster mage could actually target the Command that returned it right?

[Echelon]

The first ability of this card is the good one.

---

"Counter your Tarmogoyf return my Snapcaster Mage from GY to battlefield and Bolt you." If you had 8 mana the snapcaster mage could actually target the Command that returned it right?

First part: Unearth much? Sure, it's a sorcery, but it does save you 3 mana.

Second part: Yes, you can. Also, the play you're describing would cost 5 mana. Good luck with that.

[Quizzlemanizzle]

Holy crap Narset is pussssheeedddd, gives Jace a run for his money. First ability synergizes well with blue cantrips and Top and second ability is also good with cantrips and plow/bolt/etc. 6 loyalty is pretty high to start out with, 7 if you plus her. Like, how brutal of a 5th turn play is Narset into Path/Plow on their only guy and then rebound next turn. Basically, that Orim's Chants them. The -2 makes deck building interesting too, putting more emphasis on instant/sorcery based hate like Disenchant and friends. Plus that art is sweet.

She is not even close to as good as JacetMS or LotV.

[Quizzlemanizzle]

First part: Unearth much? Sure, it's a sorcery, but it does save you 3 mana.

Second part: Yes, you can. Also, the play you're describing would cost 5 mana. Good luck with that.

It is too slow for legacy currently since there is no real blue based control deck out there other than Miracles, but the power level of the card is still very good.

UWx Modern control decks should definitely play this card if you line it up with spicy targets like Snapcaster Mage.

[Lemnear]

I did not think of it in vintage, but I can see the point. With White becoming a thing thanks to Mentor, This does look possibly playable there. Probe, token, Probe, Skull Clamp...

I guess you are in good company if I read comments like "can this replace Jace in Miracles?" causing facepalms. This is basically a Dack Fayden. The UR Walker was called crap because stealing artifacts is mediocre in Legacy and now look at his price (especially FOIL) on eBay thanks to his application in Vintage. Narset is interacting well with Plows, Mentor, Gushes, Recall, Tutors, Timewalks and the whole crazy bullshit Vintage has to offer and I can easily see application in a Bant shell build around Lotus Cobra/Fastbond/Gush to not only power out Narset/Mentor fast, but to chain rebounded brokenees. Hell, Narset can copy a resticted bomb three times with that starting loyalty! How many double Recalls, Timewalks and shit do you think to need?

[Echelon]

Hell, Narset can copy a resticted bomb three times with that starting loyalty! How many double Recalls, Timewalks and shit do you think to need?

Meh, Snapcaster and Yawgmoth's Will do similar stuff. Both are cheaper.

[Lemnear]

Meh, Snapcaster and Yawgmoth's Will do similar stuff. Both are cheaper.

Snapcaster is not cheaper. You have to pay the instants/sorceries cost twice and it's not only one-shot but also exiles the card from the graveyard unlike Rebound. Will is black; not sure if you want to splash a color and make a 4-color gush deck.

Edit: have you thought about how many extra turns you get by the combination of Narset/TimeWalk/Regrowth?

[Echelon]

Edit: have you thought about how many extra turns you get by the combination of Narset/TimeWalk/Regrowth?

About as many as Voltaic Key + Time Vault get you :smile:.

Just needs 1 restricted card more to work.

[Lemnear]

About as many as Voltaic Key + Time Vault get you :smile:.

Just needs 1 restricted card more to work.

And one card like Key, which is absolutely useless without the other to form a two card combo which can be disrupted by board removal like Natures Claim, Decay and stuff

[Echelon]

And the other can be stopped by countering either Time Walk or Regrowth or by playing random graveyard hate. What's your point?

Sure, Key by itself is a stupid card, but that's about it. Besides, it plays nice with Sol Ring, Grim Monolith and Thran Dynamo so there's that.

[H]

Snapcaster is not cheaper. You have to pay the instants/sorceries cost twice and it's not only one-shot but also exiles the card from the graveyard unlike Rebound. Will is black; not sure if you want to splash a color and make a 4-color gush deck.

Edit: have you thought about how many extra turns you get by the combination of Narset/TimeWalk/Regrowth?

I feel you, but if your opponent is letting you resolve a 4 mana Planeswalker, plus Time Walk, what are they doing?

If you are just free-resolving a four mana Planeswalker and Recall, I have a feeling you are going to win that game, regardless of if you Rebound Recall or not.

The issue is, what happens if you resolve Narset without some broken action in your hand? Then she isn't nearly as good as Jace.

[Tylert]

I feel you, but if your opponent is letting you resolve a 4 mana Planeswalker, plus Time Walk, what are they doing?

If you are just free-resolving a four mana Planeswalker and Recall, I have a feeling you are going to win that game, regardless of if you Rebound Recall or not.

The issue is, what happens if you resolve Narset without some broken action in your hand? Then she isn't nearly as good as Jace.

You +1 and get broken action for next turn? :)

[H]

You +1 and get broken action for next turn? :)

You hope. Thing about Jace is that on his own, he takes over the game. If you both exhaust your hands and one person top-decks a Jace, the game is about as close to over as possible. Top-deck a Narset? Well, who knows what they may draw. Sure, she might draw you action, but Jace actually looks at 3 cards, where Narset looks at 1 (and telegraphs it to the opponent).

I'm not saying the card is bad. It's actually good. However, Jace-level I really can't see.

[MGB]

That UW Command card will see *heavy* play in Standard and Modern. Obviously it isn't quite a Legacy card, but it just screams "Cryptic Command" or "Birthing Pod" to me in that it's powerful in those formats but just not good enough for Legacy.

[iamajellydonut]

So, I come on here expecting a huge premature ejaculation over that better-than-fireball-and-repeatable-and-on-legs Lightning Berserker. Instead there's a comment of "not too sure about this one" and a bunch of plebs trying to call Narset better than Jace.

What the hell?

[Sylphnir]

I kinda like this one:
http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/attachments/137/318/635611295667930942.png

Atarka’s Command :r::g:
Instant (Rare)
Choose two -
- Your opponents can't gain life this turn.
- Atarka's Command deals 3 damage to each opponent.
- You may put a land card from your hand on to the battlefield.
- Creatures you control get +1/+1 and gain reach until end of turn.

[Finn]

I kinda like this one:
http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/attachments/137/318/635611295667930942.png

Atarka’s Command :r::g:
Instant (Rare)
Choose two -
- Your opponents can't gain life this turn.
- Atarka's Command deals 3 damage to each opponent.
- You may put a land card from your hand on to the battlefield.
- Creatures you control get +1/+1 and gain reach until end of turn.Yeah, I was looking at it. The price is right. But how often do you want to actually do any of those things?

This card needs a combo-ish deck that desperately needs one of those modes for it to be any good. It gets cut in everything else.

[TsumiBand]

How is nobody stoked about Fireball on a stick?

Also let's be clear, nobody actually thinks Narset is better than Jace. You know shit's getting overblown when Tsumi be like "guys, that's too much hyperbole".

Narset is unique in that her starting loyalty is markedly higher than most walkers at her cost, her +1 should be netting you cards in a Blue deck that comes with the standard issue of deck manipulating one mana spells that you were playing anyway. As for the other abilities, Rebound is decent-not-busted and her ultimate is the same as everyone else's; who gives a fuck, but if it happens, well great.

As for Atarka's Command - I really like the idea of a RG deck being able to keep options open regarding whether or not it's going to mana-ramp or burn a thing (or both). In some kind of imaginary "fast but midrange-capable burn deck" the idea of EOTing 3 damage and a land is pretty saucy, especially if you're playing that untapped land to cast more spells.

Having taken the KirdApe.dec angle, there's probably some combo deck that can abuse the poop out of Instant speed untapped land drops, but until the card actually breaks in a good deck I want it in my fucking Zoo deck stat.

[TsumiBand]

Ha ha! Sage advice!



Like I said, it's not about competitive Magic, my complaints pertain mostly to the casual sphere, especially in multiplayer.



Lately in my EDH experiences, that hasn't always been the case. With the proliferation of the Planeswalker cardtype (especially with different/new Walker subtypes), they're showing up in a lot more decks, and there are often gamestates in which there are multiple Planeswalkers out in play, sometimes with one player controlling multiple. The "new" Legend Rule also helped to increase the probability of such scenarios as well.

Sometimes there's not enough gas to neutralize any and every walker and an ultimate or two will fire. Most of them are either "deadly" only to one player (Jace, Ajani Vengeant, Bolas), only serve to power up the controlling player somewhat (Elspeth 1.0, Koth), or produce something downright laughable in the context of the format (three 1/1 Phages? a Serra Avatar token? 100 life? 20 P/T worth of Dragons? Yawn). Most of these don't end games...they're not Karn.



Narset's ultimate basically shuts all opponents off from playing most Magic cards. It's backbreaking for many decks and horribly un-fun while adding nothing interesting to the game. I doubt it will be a huge problem, probably only torpedoing a few games here and there upon release before people adapt and she has a bulls-eye painted on her back, but the design is simply bad. Begs the same question as True Name Nemesis did...what were they thinking?

Wait, people can ultimate their walkers in EDH? O_o

Heh I'm with you on the casual commentary, a lot of people will see this as a horrifying lockdown. But, especially in EDH, I have a hard time swallowing the notion that those walkers will just 'get there'. With everyone swinging haymakers at each other, it's amazing that even a 5-loyalty walker would get more than two turns in play. You might see some Doubling Season + Chain Veil + planeswalkers insanity, but really, even games of EDH have to end eventually, yeah?

[catmint]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B_RrZSHUoAAll1A.png

Not too sure about this one.

Not sure either, but could be pretty strong.

If I am a burn deck I am happy to have a mana sink late and he is also card advantage but the early damage output is lower.

Let’s say you are on the play and ping for 1 in turn 1.
In Turn 2 the opponent has removal open so you play 2 burn spells yourself.
In turn 3 the opponent is outtaped so you hit him for 3 because you have a 3rd land
In turn 4 the opponent is on ~8-12 life and you have 5 cards in hand ... not too bad.

In this scenario you did 4 damage already without spending a card - and berserk becomes an even bigger threat turning your lands into damage. The dynamic might also be that the opponent has to keep mana open for removal costing them tempo.

[Gheizen64]

Well it's similar to a GR skullcrack that can put a land into play or give +1+1 to your creatures in matchups where the anti-gain life clause isn't important. The +1+1 can be good in goyf standstills, to basically make it deal 4-5 damage, or to kill a delver on block. Too bad it doesn't block damage prevention so it doesn't kill TNN, it would've been playable imho in that case.

[FoolofaTook]

Narset's ultimate basically shuts all opponents off from playing most Magic cards. It's backbreaking for many decks and horribly un-fun while adding nothing interesting to the game. I doubt it will be a huge problem, probably only torpedoing a few games here and there upon release before people adapt and she has a bulls-eye painted on her back, but the design is simply bad. Begs the same question as True Name Nemesis did...what were they thinking?

This is so true. Things that don't win the game outright but instead make the opponent miserable, potentially over a significant number of turns, should not be printed at this point. You will probably win 80-90% of the games that Narset goes ultimate in but you will not win them fast, if she's all you have on the board or there's a stalemate otherwise. So the misery index for the opponent is increased for no significant value in terms of the overall play experience for both players.

People will ultimate Narset and then draw crappy for an extended period of time resulting in TWO miserable players staring at each other across the board.

With Jace, you ultimate him and the game is over within a turn, this assuming the opponent doesn't just concede which they usually do.

[Cire]

Well it's similar to a GR skullcrack that can put a land into play or give +1+1 to your creatures in matchups where the anti-gain life clause isn't important. The +1+1 can be good in goyf standstills, to basically make it deal 4-5 damage, or to kill a delver on block. Too bad it doesn't block damage prevention so it doesn't kill TNN, it would've been playable imho in that case.

Another thing is if Burn decks play G . . . this card is essentially an instant lavaspike on turn 2 (since it drops an untapped land). Not saying that it should be played in burn - but just something to be aware of.

[Barook]

How is nobody stoked about Fireball on a stick?
Because it only goes to the face if their board is empty of creatures they are willing to chump it and assuming they don't have creature removal to counter it.

Might be good in actual play since it technically has alot of damage potential, but I don't see a reason to cream myself about it yet.

Edit: http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/thumbnails/68/4/200/283/635611453466389491.png

Potential GSZ target? Although it has to fight with Sigarda for that slot.

[Fatal]

nope too easy to kill this creature missing very important ability - flash. Sigarda > this. That is for legacy. In modern who knows looks quite promising.

[HdH_Cthulhu]

Dragonlord Kolaghan
4RB 6/5
Flying, Haste
Other creatures you control have haste.
Whenever an opponent casts a creature or planeswalker spell with the same name as a card in his graveyard, that player loses 10 life.


In other news, "Dragonlord Kolaghan" is an elder dragon that looks like a big stupid otter.
Lord Otter Dragon (http://moxes.genexcomics.com/14-articles/2177-mtgdtk-spoiler-exclusivo-de-dragons-of-tarkir-kolagan-senora-dragon)

So this is a Rorix Bladewing with 2 upgrades! With Life's Finale or discard you could make the narrow trigger somewhat relevant. This card would scream EDH but nah this trigger is just so weird... How should this ever trigger? If they have a removal they kill him, if they dont they die to the fast clock! Akward!

[btm10]

I guess you are in good company if I read comments like "can this replace Jace in Miracles?" causing facepalms. This is basically a Dack Fayden. The UR Walker was called crap because stealing artifacts is mediocre in Legacy and now look at his price (especially FOIL) on eBay thanks to his application in Vintage. Narset is interacting well with Plows, Mentor, Gushes, Recall, Tutors, Timewalks and the whole crazy bullshit Vintage has to offer and I can easily see application in a Bant shell build around Lotus Cobra/Fastbond/Gush to not only power out Narset/Mentor fast, but to chain rebounded brokenees. Hell, Narset can copy a resticted bomb three times with that starting loyalty! How many double Recalls, Timewalks and shit do you think to need?

I agree that Narset will be testable in Vintage, but I also think she'll be testable in Legacy. Khans block has seen the tools for Ux (aggro)-control pushed as hard as they've been in a long time and I could easily see Narset being run alongside Jace in some decks. The 6 loyalty isn't anything to sneeze at in Legacy as even if she doesn't take over the game like Jace does, she's not far off and is even better in a lot of circumstances - like when you need to contain an opponent's board. Turning Swords into a slow 2-for-1 isn't bad in the face of Delver+Goyf on turn 5, and playing her and immediately casting Ponder/Brainstorm with Rebound is comparable to two Jace Brainstorms, except you still get to plus her on the second turn.

[iamajellydonut]

Might be good in actual play since it technically has alot of damage potential, but I don't see a reason to cream myself about it yet.

It has an incredible amount of damage potential. It's not the end-all or a cornerstone by any means, but your standard model Burn deck gets winded quickly, and consistently has two empty slots.


Potential GSZ target?

Potential GSZ target. (http://magiccards.info/query?q=c%3Ag+t%3A%22creature%22&v=card&s=cname)

This thing costs too much, and if your intent is to GSZ it, then the "can't be countered" is entirely irrelevant.

It is also awful and not at all comparable to Sigarda outside of its shared colors and "flying".

[Quizzlemanizzle]

It has an incredible amount of damage potential. It's not the end-all or a cornerstone by any means, but your standard model Burn deck gets winded quickly, and consistently has two empty slots.



Potential GSZ target. (http://magiccards.info/query?q=c%3Ag+t%3A%22creature%22&v=card&s=cname)

This thing costs too much, and if your intent is to GSZ it, then the "can't be countered" is entirely irrelevant.

It is also awful and not at all comparable to Sigarda outside of its shared colors and "flying".

That green fighting Dragon is pretty nice though as NO or GSZ target. Gives Elves an angle to remove creatures like Peacekeeper.

[Quizzlemanizzle]

Yeah, I was looking at it. The price is right. But how often do you want to actually do any of those things?

This card needs a combo-ish deck that desperately needs one of those modes for it to be any good. It gets cut in everything else.

This card screams burn to me since burn runs Swiftspear, Goblin Guide and Eidolon you can either have a skullcrack or a lava spike plus hymn effect that might be worth another 2-3 damage.

of course it comes at the cost of splashing some green, probably fetches and a basic forest/taiga.

[iamajellydonut]

That green fighting Dragon is pretty nice though as NO or GSZ target. Gives Elves an angle to remove creatures like Peacekeeper.

Except that if Elves ever wanted that exact capability, they've had over two years to make use of Gruul Ragebeast.

[apple713]

Yeah, I was looking at it. The price is right. But how often do you want to actually do any of those things?

This card needs a combo-ish deck that desperately needs one of those modes for it to be any good. It gets cut in everything else.

agree, I am looking forward to the other color's versions because having 4 modes on a card for cheap is perfect for legacy.

[btm10]

This card screams burn to me since burn runs Swiftspear, Goblin Guide and Eidolon you can either have a skullcrack or a lava spike plus hymn effect that might be worth another 2-3 damage.

of course it comes at the cost of splashing some green, probably fetches and a basic forest/taiga.

It's definitely got utility in Burn, and splashing green out of the board for Destructive Revelry isn't unheard of. It's no Smash to Smithereens, but killing CoP: Red, Leyline of Sanctity, Warmth, Sphere of Law, and Absolute Law are all arguably worth a point of damage. In my limited experience with the deck though, the splash has to be exclusively off of Taigas and Command probably can't make the cut in Legacy even if it works really well with EOT Searing Blaze.

[iamajellydonut]

It's definitely got utility in Burn, and splashing green out of the board for Destructive Revelry isn't unheard of. It's no Smash to Smithereens, but killing CoP: Red, Leyline of Sanctity, Warmth, Sphere of Law, and Absolute Law are all arguably worth a point of damage. In my limited experience with the deck though, the splash has to be exclusively off of Taigas and Command probably can't make the cut in Legacy even if it works really well with EOT Searing Blaze.

The difference with Destructive Revelry though is that you only need the single green source exceptionally sparingly in order to support a sideboard card. With the Command, you'd be relying more heavily on green, and you'd fall prey to the same faults as you would trying to splash black or white.

I mean, ignoring the color requirements, the Command is just flat out better than Skullcrack. Same with Boros Charm as compared to Flame Rift in Legacy, but Flame Rift is still the card being played. Burn doesn't have enough justification in any format to run a second color yet. It's got about one card in each possible splash, but not enough to make a significant contribution to the deck.

[H]

Burn doesn't have enough justification in any format to run a second color yet. It's got about one card in each possible splash, but not enough to make a significant contribution to the deck.

Just a nit-pick, but I think this is untrue of Modern. There is a huge incentive to run White, in Boros Charm, Lightning Helix and Wear//Tear in the sideboard.

[Tammit67]

Except that if Elves ever wanted that exact capability, they've had over two years to make use of Gruul Ragebeast.

Or even better Ulvenwald Tracker

[iamajellydonut]

Or even better Ulvenwald Tracker

Tru dat, but I was thinking of things that effectively had "haste" on whatever kill ability. And there's still a slew of them outside of CIP fight effects. From tech like Unyaro Bees to junk like Ulasht, the Hate Seed. Elves players seem to never have had a need for any such tech, and are apparently satisfied to just have access to Abrupt Decay and a quick clock. A crappy new dragon is unlikely to change their stance on the matter.

[iostream]

Just a nit-pick, but I think this is untrue of Modern. There is a huge incentive to run White, in Boros Charm, Lightning Helix and Wear//Tear in the sideboard.
This is true - the white splash is basically mandatory at this point for that reason. Another advantage is that you get to play Kor Firewalker for the mirror in the SB.

I wonder if Lightning Berserker and Lil' Zurgo will make mono-red a real thing in post-DTK standard.

[iamajellydonut]

This is true - the white splash is basically mandatory at this point for that reason. Another advantage is that you get to play Kor Firewalker for the mirror in the SB.

While I don't condemn the trend of running white in Modern, it is by no stretch "basically mandatory", and Boros Charm continues to be the only relevant card on that list. Wear/Tear is directly comparable to Destructive Revelry, Lightning Helix has been proven time and time again to only offset the loss of life, and Kor Firewalker is just a Dragon's Claw on legs that costs WW. Off that list, Boros Charm, again, is the only card that people are running white for. The rest just happen to get played as consequence.

[Happy83]

It's a shame that this doesn't cost just U, it would have been pretty decent...

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/68/16/635611545892627307.png

[Gheizen64]

It's a shame that this doesn't cost just U, it would have been pretty decent...

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/68/16/635611545892627307.png

I think it's still playable in vintage. It's almost a strictly better See Beyond, which is used sparingly so. In legacy you can play 4x ancestrals so it will never see play.

[Zombie]

I think it's still playable in vintage. It's almost a strictly better See Beyond, which is used sparingly so. In legacy you can play 4x ancestrals so it will never see play.

See Beyond is probably played because it can put clunk from your hand back into the library where it can be fetched from again. That can't.


That said, "pretty decent" at one mana? Did someone gloss over the card type? O_o

[Star|Scream]

I think it's still playable in vintage. It's almost a strictly better See Beyond, which is used sparingly so. In legacy you can play 4x ancestrals so it will never see play.

Is this not worse than Impulse or am I missing something?

[Gheizen64]

Is this not worse than Impulse or am I missing something?

No it's actually worse than impulse. For some reasons i was thinking impulse put the card back on top or something. Brainfarted.

[iostream]

While I don't condemn the trend of running white in Modern, it is by no stretch "basically mandatory", and Boros Charm continues to be the only relevant card on that list. Wear/Tear is directly comparable to Destructive Revelry, Lightning Helix has been proven time and time again to only offset the loss of life, and Kor Firewalker is just a Dragon's Claw on legs that costs WW. Off that list, Boros Charm, again, is the only card that people are running white for. The rest just happen to get played as consequence.There are hardly any recent examples of successful lists that don't play the white splash. For example, literally all of the 18+ point burn decks at PT Fate Reforged played the white splash.

[Star|Scream]

There are hardly any recent examples of successful lists that don't play the white splash. For example, literally all of the 18+ point burn decks at PT Fate Reforged played the white splash.

Guys, guys... Can we get back to how that planeswalker is gonna break the format?

[eostby]

I, too, am slightly disappointed that we got weaker Impulse instead of better Impulse.

Howver, I think a lot of people are overlooking a (potential) great home in Legacy for Atarka's Command: Lands (the RG version, anyway). Free land drop + something for 2 mana seems pretty good to me.

[T-101]

Lands could already play Explore, which can draw/Dredge Loam but it doesn't play that card.

[Barook]

Free land drop + something for 2 mana seems pretty good to me.
Card disadvantage is free? :really: Maybe if you use it as a combat trick to kill some creatures, but otherwise, you trade CA for speed.


It's a shame that this doesn't cost just U, it would have been pretty decent...

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/68/16/635611545892627307.png
The last thing Legacy needs is another blue quality cantrip.

It looks like their take on a fixed Brainstorm.

[Kage]

So I'm guessing after the Cruise and DTT fiasco, even Impulse is now considered broken as shit? When was Impulse playable the last time in Constructed? Extended Psychatog 2003?

[Barook]

So I'm guessing after the Cruise and DTT fiasco, even Impulse is now considered broken as shit? When was Impulse playable the last time in Constructed? Extended Psychatog 2003?
I was talking about the wish of it costing only :u:.

This is worse than Impulse, and thus thankfully irrelevant for Legacy.

[Begle1]

Many Solidarity lists rock Impulse. (Not like that's really saying much...) I still like weak Impulse as a limited control card. Anything to made counterspells better.

I like the two big green dragons as Natural Order targets. I don't think the NO toolbox had a "kill target creature and put a clock on the table" target, and the other one is the biggest green lifelinker around.

[Valtrix]

I really wish they would have reprinted Impulse. That would have been sweet! I also hope the commands are cycles, but who knows.

[iamajellydonut]

I don't think the NO toolbox had a "kill target creature and put a clock on the table" target, and the other one is the biggest green lifelinker around.

Both of these assumptions are false.

[Lemnear]

Not sure if the NO/GSZ talk is serious or just a called shoot on my prediction ;P

[Begle1]

As for Narset, sure she can fit into Miracles, but I think her guaranteed role would be as a side-board card AGAINST Miracles?

As for the 1-drop dash firebreathing card, it's very good in a "Sledgehammer" style red deck that tries to not over-extend and try to tap out every turn. Stonewright got me lots of standard wins, and this is better if you can keep the board clean (worse if you can't but have evasive creatures). That said, I don't see it in any place in Legacy... It is also another red "1-drop" (along with Monastery Swiftspear) that doesn't die to your own Pyroclasm.


Both of these assumptions are false.

What's another green creature that can kill a creature when it enters the battlefield?
On second look I guess Phantom Nishoba is a bigger green "lifelink" creature.


Not sure if the NO/GSZ talk is serious or just a called shoot on my prediction ;P

You predicted people talking about them in an Elves build... I've been trying for years to make a Natural Order deck with a tool-box of creatures like Reanimator has, so anytime a big green creature with a unique effect comes along my ears perk up.

[iamajellydonut]

What's another green creature that can kill a creature when it enters the battlefield?
On second look I guess Phantom Nishoba is a bigger green "lifelink" creature.

Correct on the Nishoba. And it's worth noting that there are ways to gain life outside of lifelink.

Anyway, as I noted earlier in the thread, the other CIP "fight" creature is Gruul Ragebeast. It has been around for over two years now and nobody has cared. Nor have they cared about the numerous other green creatures able to kill other creatures that have been printed through the years.

[HdH_Cthulhu]

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/attachments/137/331/635611468591515725.png

I wish this guy would be a 3/3 at 1WW, I really like the design, but at 4cc he is unplayable.

[MD.Ghost]

Correct on the Nishoba. And it's worth noting that there are ways to gain life outside of lifelink.

Anyway, as I noted earlier in the thread, the other CIP "fight" creature is Gruul Ragebeast. It has been around for over two years now and nobody has cared. Nor have they cared about the numerous other green creatures able to kill other creatures that have been printed through the years.

Because Elves don't need the "fight" stuff; if "fight" would be able to kill Grisel & Emrakul, than maybe "ok". It would be nice to see a green (+Splash) "Vindicate" Creature (Ashen Rider), but i think this reserved for WB as a unique effect.

Lets see how the RG Dragonmother is designed, but don't hope for it, i think we get a meaningless big monster for about 7-9 mana.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

Megamorph is even dumber. . .
Megamorph. Ultramorph! MONSTERMORPH! RAMPAGE!!!

[Lemnear]

Because Elves don't need the "fight" stuff; if "fight" would be able to kill Grisel & Emrakul, than maybe "ok". It would be nice to see a green (+Splash) "Vindicate" Creature (Ashen Rider), but i think this reserved for WB as a unique effect.

Lets see how the RG Dragonmother is designed, but don't hope for it, i think we get a meaningless big monster for about 7-9 mana.

I feel this is basically a rehashed discussion about Regal Force lately in the Elves Thread with the unanswered counter-question on why the card has fallen from grace, simply put as "Why run Regal/green random fatty, if you can kill your opponent with Craterhoof instead?"

[Sloshthedark]

Megamorph. Ultramorph! MONSTERMORPH! RAMPAGE!!!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pQYtmb-f0w

[phonics]

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/attachments/137/331/635611468591515725

I wish this guy would be a 3/3 at 1WW, I really like the design, but at 4cc he is unplayable.

He seems really underwhelming, like he should at least have prowess on top of what he has at least.

[Echelon]

I feel this is basically a rehashed discussion about Regal Force lately in the Elves Thread with the unanswered counter-question on why the card has fallen from grace, simply put as "Why run Regal/green random fatty, if you can kill your opponent with Craterhoof instead?"

Well, why not run something if you can GSZ/NO for it? :tongue:

[MD.Ghost]

I feel this is basically a rehashed discussion about Regal Force lately in the Elves Thread with the unanswered counter-question on why the card has fallen from grace, simply put as "Why run Regal/green random fatty, if you can kill your opponent with Craterhoof instead?"

True, between Craterhoof, Progenitus and Ruric it feels that most edges are already covered with a really powerfull solution. If needed Worldspine Wurm also works nice against Show&Tell. I can only see a new fatty, if it combines one of the unique effects from the cards above. A fatty alone (see, what i expect from the RB Dragon-Mom) is not enough, if you can instantly kill with Craterhoof (and the Dragon will not get haste...), or get simply a very resilient and fast enough clock: Progenitus (and some builds even cutted the hydra, because it isn't needed in most cases).

[Finn]

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/attachments/137/331/635611468591515725.png

I wish this guy would be a 3/3 at 1WW, I really like the design, but at 4cc he is unplayable.

I dunno. As it is, this creature is fairly hard to deal with. If I have this guy out and a deck stocked with instants, you might get lucky. But then, your first try to kill it might be your last good chance. It is out of bolt range, and you can't really chump a first-striker. It can tap would-be attackers and has lifelink anyway. I see this fellow keeping a lot of an opponent's resources at bay while getting a Standard control or midrange deck way out ahead in just a few turns. And that is what Standard is all about. Considering Narset wants the same kind of deck, I can see this being a powerful protector for her that also wins the game. It's a megarare too, so I see this guy making waves.

[iamajellydonut]

Bitches don't dodge Liliana.

[T-101]

Because Elves don't need the "fight" stuff; if "fight" would be able to kill Grisel & Emrakul, than maybe "ok". It would be nice to see a green (+Splash) "Vindicate" Creature (Ashen Rider), but i think this reserved for WB as a unique effect.

Lets see how the RG Dragonmother is designed, but don't hope for it, i think we get a meaningless big monster for about 7-9 mana.

That sure would be cool, but I think Wizards has to play it pretty carefully. Because GSZ and NO exist, they just can't print green creatures that have abilities like that.

This is Green we're talking about after all, not Blue.

[FoolofaTook]

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/attachments/137/331/635611468591515725.png

I wish this guy would be a 3/3 at 1WW, I really like the design, but at 4cc he is unplayable.

This is going to go out of control in Standard alongside Monastery Mentor, which will produce another of those $75 cards and pissed off Standards just like the Jace Cawblade fiasco in 2010.

[Humphrey]

Because Elves don't need the "fight" stuff; if "fight" would be able to kill Grisel & Emrakul, than maybe "ok". It would be nice to see a green (+Splash) "Vindicate" Creature (Ashen Rider), but i think this reserved for WB as a unique effect.

Lets see how the RG Dragonmother is designed, but don't hope for it, i think we get a meaningless big monster for about 7-9 mana.

fight + deathtouch sounds reasonable

[Barook]

fight + deathtouch sounds reasonable
Damn shame Mortal Combat is already a card.


That sure would be cool, but I think Wizards has to play it pretty carefully. Because GSZ and NO exist, they just can't print green creatures that have abilities like that.

This is Green we're talking about after all, not Blue.
Like Wizards gives two shits about Eternal-only cards.

[HdH_Cthulhu]

This is going to go out of control in Standard alongside Monastery Mentor, which will produce another of those $75 cards and pissed off Standards just like the Jace Cawblade fiasco in 2010.

But in standard they dont have Brainstorm and Stp... They dont even have Path to Exile, so maybe Modern?

[T-101]

This is going to go out of control in Standard alongside Monastery Mentor, which will produce another of those $75 cards and pissed off Standards just like the Jace Cawblade fiasco in 2010.

Phyrexian Brainstorm in the last core set plz.

[Cire]

Shorecrasher Elemental UUU
Creature - Elemental
U: Exile Shorecrasher Elemental, then return it to the battlefield face down under its owner's control.
1: Shorecrasher Elemental gets +1/-1 or -1/+1 until end of turn.
Megamorph 4U (You may cast this card face down as a 2/2 creature for 3. Turn it face up at any time for its megamorph cost and put a +1/+1 counter on it.)
3/3

Mini Morphling?

[iamajellydonut]

Shorecrasher Elemental UUU
Creature - Elemental
U: Exile Shorecrasher Elemental, then return it to the battlefield face down under its owner's control.
1: Shorecrasher Elemental gets +1/-1 or -1/+1 until end of turn.
Megamorph 4U (You may cast this card face down as a 2/2 creature for 3. Turn it face up at any time for its megamorph cost and put a +1/+1 counter on it.)
3/3

Mini Morphling?

Isn't it basically just an overcosted True-Name Nemesis?

[Sylphnir]

Atarka was spoiled, but is nothing more than a slightly bigger Bogardan Hellkite without flash that can't hit players.

[Picture] (http://8e8460c4912582c4e519-11fcbfd88ed5b90cfb46edba899033c9.r65.cf1.rackcdn.com/sales/cardscans/MTG/DTK/en/nonfoil/1qKnp5C2T8nzEDJ6.jpg)
Dragonlord Atarka :5::r::g:
Legendary Creature - Elder Dragon (Mythic)
Flying, Trample
When Dragonlord Atarka enters the battlefield, it deals 5 damage divided as you choose among any number of target creatures and/or planeswalkers your opponents control.
8/8

This whole cycle is quite forgettable imo. :frown:

[T-101]

I guess Lemnear should throw Atarka into the heap of "new, and possibly sweet GSZ/NO targets."

[Cire]

Isn't it basically just an overcosted True-Name Nemesis?

Yes. Although it sucks that we compare all 3cc creatures to TNN (and MM now, maybe, I guess).

[MD.Ghost]

I guess Lemnear should throw Atarka into the heap of "new, and possibly sweet GSZ/NO targets."

maybe better than regal force^^ :laugh: the big dragon queen got a nice artwork!

[Finn]

Shorecrasher returns to the battlefield FACE DOWN. You have to pay 5 mana to get it back. No thanks, mate.

[Quizzlemanizzle]

I guess Lemnear should throw Atarka into the heap of "new, and possibly sweet GSZ/NO targets."

yes but Atarka is in a different universe in terms of quality compared to the green fight dragon or the gruul beast.

Just sad that the damage can't go to a player if you wish to.

5 damage divided as you choose is pretty good utility and a 8/8 flying trample is a "solid" clock.

[iamajellydonut]

Yes. Although it sucks that we compare all 3cc creatures to TNN (and MM now, maybe, I guess).

Correction: I compare all 3cc blue creatures that are deliberately designed to be resilient to True-Name Nemesis.

The best card will always be the best card. It's been this way for almost twenty-two years. There's no reason True-Name Nemesis should be treated as a vile anomaly.

[T-101]

yes but Atarka is in a different universe in terms of quality compared to the green fight dragon or the gruul beast.

Just sad that the damage can't go to a player if you wish to.

5 damage divided as you choose is pretty good utility and a 8/8 flying trample is a "solid" clock.

I'm not a NO connoisseur, but Arc Lightning for 8 vs creatures + evasive Fatty does seem pretty appealing.

[Finn]

I kinda like Blood Chain Fanatic, actually. That is the 3/3 orc for 1bb with this text:

Sacrifice another Warrior: Target player loses X life and you gain X life, where X is the sacrificed Warrior's power. It is an aggressively costed dude, and you can do some pretty nifty stuff with that ability, which also aggressively costed.

Unnatural Selection is a card.
Phyrexian Dreadnought
Wall of Blood
Moltensteel Dragon


Or whatever. There are a lot of good warriors anyway.

[rufus]

...
Sacrifice another Warrior: Target player loses X life and you gain X life, where X is the sacrificed Warrior's power. It is an aggressively costed dude, and you can do some pretty nifty stuff with that ability, which also aggressively costed.
...

There's a :1::b: in that activation cost which makes it much weaker.

[Tammit67]

I'm not a NO connoisseur, but Arc Lightning for 8 vs creatures + evasive Fatty does seem pretty appealing.

Only in the situation where you don't have creatures on the board, which begs how NO is cast reliably and why it is better then Progenitus. Or if you have creatures on the board and you could just Hoof them for 20+.

What typical boardstate is this card better than current options?

[Barook]

There's a :1::b: in that activation cost which makes it much weaker.
Drain-Fling the rest of your army of free would be a tad bid strong.

The better question is what to color to run to complement it?

Some notable growable warriors in the 1-3cc range are:

Champion of Lambholt
Chief of the Edge
Countryside Crusher
Goblin Piledriver
Hero of Leina Tower
Seeker of the Way
Tymaret, the Murder King
Varolz, the Scar-Striped

Pump spells/equipment can do the rest.

[Cire]

more cards

Sarkhan Unbroken 2GUR
+1: Draw a card, then add 1 mana of any color to your mana pool
-2: put a 4/4 red flying dragon onto the battlefield
-8: Search library for any amount of dragons and put them onto the battlefield

Dragonlord Ojutai 3WU
Flying
Has Hexproof as long as it is untapped
Whenever deals combat damage look at the top 3 cards of your library and put on into your hand and the rest on the bottom of your library
5/4

And I think from Modern Masters:

Lilian Heretical Healer 1BB
Lifelink
Whenever another nontoken creature you control dies, exile ~ and return her to battlefield transformed. If you do put a 2/2 black zombie token onto the battlefield
2/3
Liliana, defiant necromancer
+2 each player discards a card
-X reanimate non-legend with converted mana cost X or less from your graveyard
-8: Emblem with "whenever a creature dies, return it to battlefield under your control at the beggining of next end step
(3)

[apple713]

This card seems ridic....

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/thumbnails/68/63/200/283/635612497030698793.png

this is the card my gsz / no brew has been waiting for!

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/thumbnails/68/53/200/283/635612358529923459.jpeg

[T-101]

Only in the situation where you don't have creatures on the board, which begs how NO is cast reliably and why it is better then Progenitus. Or if you have creatures on the board and you could just Hoof them for 20+.

What typical boardstate is this card better than current options?

Prog and Hoof are awesome game ender targets, no doubt. Hoof wins for Elves, and Progenitus wins for non-Elves as a default mainboard choice.

Also, I misread Atarka; it only shoots for 5, not 8.

Where Atarka would be strong is against specific problem cards, or lots of small things (it can kill Peacekeeper/a bunch of opposing Elves/2 Delvers/2 Deathrites/Jace + a creature sometimes/Liliana + a creature sometimes/other things that I can't think of).

I agree that Prog and Hoof are likely just better most of the time, but being that Ruric Thar can see play sometimes, Atarka doesn't seem out of the realm of possibility.

[Krasman]

And I think from Modern Masters:

Lilian Heretical Healer 1BB
Lifelink
Whenever another nontoken creature you control dies, exile ~ and return her to battlefield transformed. If you do put a 2/2 black zombie token onto the battlefield
2/3
Liliana, defiant necromancer
+2 each player discards a card
-X reanimate non-legend with converted mana cost X or less from your graveyard
-8: Emblem with "whenever a creature dies, return it to battlefield under your control at the beggining of next end step
(3)

That will be from Origins.

[Barook]

It's worth noting that enemy fetches are basically at 0% chance now with "Battle for Zendikar" announced as the next October set.

[TsumiBand]

Sarkhan Unbroken seems good. I hesitate to say the +1 ability is basically the whole card, but kinda yeah, it is a silly good + ability even on a 5cmc permanent. The - is clearly great for creating a blocker - a flying one at that. No Delver whittling at its loyalty (I heard that was a drawback, somewhere).

Really both planeswalkers spoiled so far look pretty intriguing, can't wait to never own any :/

[rufus]

Sarkhan Unbroken seems good. I hesitate to say the +1 ability is basically the whole card, but kinda yeah, it is a silly good + ability even on a 5cmc permanent. The - is clearly great for creating a blocker - a flying one at that. No Delver whittling at its loyalty (I heard that was a drawback, somewhere).

Really both planeswalkers spoiled so far look pretty intriguing, can't wait to never own any :/

He's pretty good, but hard to cheat into play, and, in legacy, at 5cc he's competing with cards that win the game immediately like Ad Nauseam.

[iamajellydonut]

http://mythicspoiler.com/dtk/cards/collectedcompany.jpg

Hrngggggg

[Jamaican Zombie Legend]

I know this card is "bad", but I really like the design of the ability.

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/68/78/635612647332042669.png


Savage Ventmaw 4RG

Flying

Whenever Savage Ventmaw attacks, add RRRGGG to your mana pool. Until end of turn, this mana doesn't empty from your mana pool as steps and phases end.

4/4


I'm almost certain this card will see zero competitive Legacy play, but perhaps this ability (critters that add mana on attack) could eventually show up on a Modern/Legacy worthy card. Great ability for Green/Red and a good way to push mana acceleration in a "fair" way.

[maharis]

Hrngggggg

I know, right?

Does Elves play this card?

[apple713]

I know, right?

Does Elves play this card?

no, 4 mana is too much to not win the game...plus it increases fails on glimpse

[T-101]

I know, right?

Does Elves play this card?

I doubt Elves will want it, but there's gotta be some combo that wins the game either on the spot, or on the next turn. With Worldly Tutor, Brainstorm, Top, hell, even Congregation at Dawn, there could be something here.

The big IF here is if there exists a win that is just two CMC >= 3 creatures.

[Mr.C]

I know, right?

Does Elves play this card?

GW Maverick? Is that still a thing?

[Bed Decks Palyer]

I like the GW edh Dromoka. I like also the old Dromoka. I thing I'll build something. For now I'm considering simply a 300 cards GW tower deck.
Because fuck deck-building.

edit:
Also, seeing all those amazing new cards makes me want to play Standard. While there are people that simply rotate in-and-out the burn spells and thus keep themselves in Type II without spending much money, I'd love to be That GW Guy. It really looks like the nowadays Standard might be funny with GW, as there are amazing lands available*, lots of removal** and quite some nice creatures.
*) temples and fetches? Count me in!
**) It's amazing that it took fifteen years until WotC made a good white removal (PtE), but ever since then they made a few more, and this Standard is quite full of it. Heck, a format where rake (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=3210&type=card) is legal? I must play that...

[wcm8]

http://mythicspoiler.com/dtk/cards/collectedcompany.jpg

Hrngggggg

4+ Mana is **insane** in Legacy. We are talking Jace mana, in a format full of Stifle, Daze, Wasteland and Spell Pierce. Any Green deck that would max out on 4x Green Sun's Zenith (which is simply a better, more flexible version of this card) and *still* want more search would just play Natural Order, since it basically wins upon resolution. I just can't think of any deck that would play a card like this without first maxing out on the other options.

edit: maybe I am confusing Standard-excitement for Legacy considerations, sorry if I rained on anyone's parade

[HdH_Cthulhu]

4+ Mana is **insane** in Legacy. We are talking Jace mana, in a format full of Stifle, Daze, Wasteland and Spell Pierce. Any Green deck that would max out on 4x Green Sun's Zenith (which is simply a better, more flexible version of this card) and *still* want more search would just play Natural Order, since it basically wins upon resolution. I just can't think of any deck that would play a card like this without first maxing out on the other options.

edit: maybe I am confusing Standard-excitement for Legacy considerations, sorry if I rained on anyone's parade

Maybe in gw junk. Finding a goyf and a knight seems good. Prolly just for the SB when you side out teeg for card advantage.

[death]

Collected Company seems good it's banworthy in Modern. If it were sorcery speed it would've been unplayable. Definitely legacy playable, it's splashable too.

[HdH_Cthulhu]

Wow instant. I didnt even read the card type, it was obvious for me that this is a sorcery...

2 surprise blocker to make it a 4 for 1 and you gain tempo xD. Or just the ideal card you want after a mass removal!
But banworthy I dont think so, you still could turn up 6 noncreatures, your opponent will expect something if you leave 4 mana open and it limits your deckbuilding (bad with tasigur too much cantrips ect...).

Im kinda hyped since I know its an instant but I still consider it as a "fair" card.

[Asthereal]

Collected Company seems good it's banworthy in Modern. If it were sorcery speed it would've been unplayable. Definitely legacy playable, it's splashable too.
I quite like this card with Lim Dul's Vault. :cool:
Pretty serious requirements though: UBG and the winner costs 4 mana.
Maybe just Jace or Brainstorm Emry on top and then cast Collected Co.

[Barook]

What can you realistically pull to make it worth it? 4 mana is NO territory, instant or not.

[HdH_Cthulhu]

What can you realistically pull to make it worth it? 4 mana is NO territory, instant or not.

Instant or not changes everything. So much easier to resolve. With an ethersworn canonist out its like 100% sure you resolve it. What can you pull? Thats the fun nobody knows so your opponent cant really prepare for it.
If you get something slightly better then a goyf, like a goyf and mother of runes, or a stoneforge + something its wroth it, isnt it?
Its not like NO its more like a Maverick Ringleader!

[maharis]

I doubt Elves will want it, but there's gotta be some combo that wins the game either on the spot, or on the next turn. With Worldly Tutor, Brainstorm, Top, hell, even Congregation at Dawn, there could be something here. The big IF here is if there exists a win that is just two CMC >= 3 creatures.

It's sort of like Glimpse, except you can do it at their EOT and you don't accidentally draw your Hoof -- in fact you can bury it for that NO you have in hand.


GW Maverick? Is that still a thing?

Its been top-8ing a lot... I could see an even more creature-dense GW hate bear deck using this too. The creatures don't have to be green!


What can you realistically pull to make it worth it? 4 mana is NO territory, instant or not.

EOT SFM-TNN seems good. Even if one of those creatures is the only target in your top 6 it's insane as it's basically a GSZ for them. That's just off the top of my head.


Collected Company seems good it's banworthy in Modern. If it were sorcery speed it would've been unplayable. Definitely legacy playable, it's splashable too.

Well, it's comparable to GSZ, Glimpse, and Pod, which are all banned, so yeah. Hopefully it's the tiniest bit less broken. I guess it doesn't do anything with a Rhino, but who cares when you hit Ewit and x value creature then do it again?

[Barook]

Instant or not changes everything. So much easier to resolve. With an ethersworn canonist out its like 100% sure you resolve it. What can you pull? Thats the fun nobody knows so your opponent cant really prepare for it.
If you get something slightly better then a goyf, like a goyf and mother of runes, or a stoneforge + something its wroth it, isnt it?
Its not like NO its more like a Maverick Ringleader!
Except Ringleader can be cheated into play for free, while you always have to pay for this.

Are there any game-winning combos with two 3cc or less creatures that you can set up with Congregation at Dawn?

There's the Cephalid Breakfast combo, but that is rather meh. Anything else?

[Happy83]

In Bant colors there would be a winning stack, given your opponent has nothing, but since you resolved these spells this should be the case:

EOT get Painter's Servant and Trinket Mage, search for Grindstone, on your turn play and activate Grindstone.

I know this is bad, but it was the only thing I came up with off top of my head...

[iamajellydonut]

I mean, I get that it's 4 mana and that it searches for creatures, but even skipping over that the card is an instant, Collected Company has SUCH different functionally as compared to GSZ or Natural Order.

It is not an all-in. It does not try to go one-for-one. It is not limited to green creatures. It is discounted card advantage at instant speed. Whether it revolutionizes Legacy or not, it is still the strongest card with the most potential that has been spoiled thus far.

Edit: Sent from shit phone.


Except Ringleader can be cheated into play for free, while you always have to pay for this.

TANSTAAFL

And how do you get goblins into play after?

[FoolofaTook]

The best card will always be the best card. It's been this way for almost twenty-two years. There's no reason True-Name Nemesis should be treated as a vile anomaly.

The reason TNN should be treated as a vile anomaly is that it was pushed in a format that would never impact any other formats than Legacy and Vintage. It was designed to be broken and in the process to further break already broken eternal formats.

That's kind of the definition of a vile anomaly.

[FoolofaTook]

I quite like this card with Lim Dul's Vault. :cool:
Pretty serious requirements though: UBG and the winner costs 4 mana.
Maybe just Jace or Brainstorm Emry on top and then cast Collected Co.

Emrakul isn't a target for Collected Company. The best you could probably do is a 2 card combo of some cheap creatures that wins the game the following turn. I can't really think what that would be but I'm sure it's out there somewhere.

[T-101]

So I've been pondering Collected Company after seeing that my shopping carts containing Congregation at Dawns are mysteriously empty upon waking up...

I haven't come up with anything that screams "ZOMG so busted," but there are 3 that seem noteworthy.

1) Quillspike + Devoted Druid combo. If you EOT it, you can untap and make an arbitrarily large dude. Still folds to 1 removal spell, and you have to actually untap with the Druid for this to work, but it IS Modern legal.
2) Happy83's Painter + Trinket Mage for Grindstone. You can EOT it, and on your turn you should have 4 mana to cast + activate Stone. Kills on a different axis than attacking, which can be nice. Can replace Painter with Welder in some situations.
3) Old school Cephalid Illusionist + Kor Damage Redirection Dude. Mill yourself, get Narcomoebas for Dread Return on Lab Man. Note that since you get to find 3 guys with Congregation, you can find Emrakul in addition to Caphalid and Kor Dude. C.C. will put the Emrakul directly on the bottom of your library, and there is probably a reason that is helpful, but I cannot think of it.

[rufus]

What about Collected Company as a supplemental card Aluren or Food Chain combo decks? Fire out a Sea Gate Oracle and a Raven Familiar eot and then combo out on the following turn.

[alphastryk]

So I've been pondering Collected Company after seeing that my shopping carts containing Congregation at Dawns are mysteriously empty upon waking up...

I haven't come up with anything that screams "ZOMG so busted," but there are 3 that seem noteworthy.

1) Quillspike + Devoted Druid combo. If you EOT it, you can untap and make an arbitrarily large dude. Still folds to 1 removal spell, and you have to actually untap with the Druid for this to work, but it IS Modern legal.
2) Happy83's Painter + Trinket Mage for Grindstone. You can EOT it, and on your turn you should have 4 mana to cast + activate Stone. Kills on a different axis than attacking, which can be nice. Can replace Painter with Welder in some situations.
3) Old school Cephalid Illusionist + Kor Damage Redirection Dude. Mill yourself, get Narcomoebas for Dread Return on Lab Man. Note that since you get to find 3 guys with Congregation, you can find Emrakul in addition to Caphalid and Kor Dude. C.C. will put the Emrakul directly on the bottom of your library, and there is probably a reason that is helpful, but I cannot think of it.

Off the top of my head, I can add a few more creature combos:

Laboratory Maniac / Divining Witch (Upkeep activate witch for a card not in your deck)
KotR (or Weathered Wayfarer) / Vampire Hexmage (With a depths in the deck)

[FoolofaTook]

What about Collected Company as a supplemental card Aluren or Food Chain combo decks? Fire out a Sea Gate Oracle and a Raven Familiar eot and then combo out on the following turn.

The problem with Aluren lists is not finding the creatures, the problem is having extreme difficulty winning if you cannot resolve Aluren.

[joven]

There's no reason True-Name Nemesis should be treated as a vile anomaly.

Yes, there is! And even a lot more than for unaccessible Tarmogoyf Super-Casting-Cost-Wonder.
TNN is a rules abomination in one of the most unfunniest ways imaginable. It made the game much more frustrating.
But no argument against comparing to the best card as you said.

[joven]

It's worth noting that enemy fetches are basically at 0% chance now with "Battle for Zendikar" announced as the next October set.

You mean 99,999999999999999% in Battle for Zendikar!
Why would they put the enemy fetches in Dragons of Tarkir when it was almost a sure thing that there is a second Zendikar block around the corner? And now it is confirmed. So drop the hype prices.

[(nameless one)]

7 mana 2 card combo seems too much. Although Congregation at Dawn seems like it has other applications in finding silver bullets. The issue is that Green Sun's Zenith does exist in the format. I'm sure it could work in Modern but there's not a lot of two creature combos that exist in that format.

[iamajellydonut]

It was designed to be broken and in the process to further break already broken eternal formats.

If this is the case, then it failed miserably.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

Collected Company is a perfect card for some creature-based combo in EDH, say Saffi or Cpt. Sisay and things like Mike/Trike, Angel Feeder, Melira+Primus (with one of he many Altars already in play). Seems legit.

[Barook]

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/thumbnails/68/62/200/283/635612494789156528.png

Instead of Narset, they should have made Surrak a planeswalker, running rampant in the multiverse punching shit. Best character ever.

Also, the new Anafenza was spoiled:

Anafenza, Kin-Tree Spirit :w::w:
Legendary Creature - Spirit Soldier
Whenever another nontoken creature enters the battlefield under your control, bolster 1.
2/2

I could see D&T running her at least as a 1-of due Flickerwisp/Karakas shenanigans and basically countering -1/-1 effects.

[Philipp2293]

I think the new Anafenza looks playable, will get at least one to test out in Death and Taxes. Not groundbreaking, but most likely doesn't suck to have around.

[Stan]

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/thumbnails/68/62/200/283/635612494789156528.png

Instead of Narset, they should have made Surrak a planeswalker, running rampant in the multiverse punching shit. Best character ever.

Imagine Surrak the Brawler in the next Zendikar block, on a card called 'Supreme Victory', punching out Emrakul. I'd play that.

[TsumiBand]

I think the new Anafenza looks playable, will get at least one to test out in Death and Taxes. Not groundbreaking, but most likely doesn't suck to have around.

It might be okay in D&T but I feel like it would be tantamount to like, Wizened Cenn at best, right - you bounce some critter and replay it, and some other thing gets the counte, but eventually you get to a point where you're only able to Bolster the guy you were bouncing (Bolster always goes to the creature you control with lowest toughness). So it may as well be a Crusade or something.

I don't think it's bad but like, it kind of warrants comparison to Evolve from RtR Block. Eventually you hit a ceiling on how far the effect will go.