Spectators

[Einherjer]

Got one question that came up when talking to a friend.

Situation:
Player A passes the turn. Player B draws. Player A, still in the draw step, guesses out loud which cards Player B would need to have in hand in order to win the game. One or two spectators laugh.

Question:
Is there a way that Player B can call the judge on Player A for anything?

Greetings

[Norm]

If player A isn't attempting to run the clock down or repeatedly antagonize player B then, no.

[cdr]

I'm not sure I understand the question. You're saying the spectators can see B's hand? If A was specifically trying to glean information from spectators, then yes, that could be outside assistance. If spectators were giving away information about someone's hand, then that could be outside information on the part of the spectators.

Most likely though, A isn't trying to gain information and the spectators aren't deliberately trying to give away information. If you called a judge, at most the judge can ask the spectators to leave.

[Einherjer]

Yeah, the question wasn't about stalling, more about the fact that most spectators could see the hand of said player.

Greetings

[Bed Decks Palyer]

Yeah, the question wasn't about stalling, more about the fact that most spectators could see the hand of said player.

Greetings

I remember two similar scenarios:

scen. 1:
player A sideboarding: "mmm, mmm... mmm?"
spectator: "Wow, Worship!"
player B: "lolthx, I think I'll find use for these Naturalizes I never intended to sb in."
:rolleyes:


scen. 2:
player A sideboarding: "mmm, mmm... mmm?"
spectator: "Wow, a sunny!"
player B: "Hm... I guess you just saw Trinisphere, right?"
:rolleyes:

[Julian23]

Last round of Day1 at GP Paris. Sneak Show vs some other deck.

Other player is tapped out, Sneak Show has Sneak Attack in play, Emrakul in hand, opponent at 5 life. For some reason the Sneak Show player thinks about his play for ages, prompting a spectator to say "Is it really all that hard?". The spectator received a match loss for that on the following Day2.

[Plague Sliver]

Last round of Day1 at GP Paris. Sneak Show vs some other deck.

Other player is tapped out, Sneak Show has Sneak Attack in play, Emrakul in hand, opponent at 5 life. For some reason the Sneak Show player thinks about his play for ages, prompting a spectator to say "Is it really all that hard?". The spectator received a match loss for that on the following Day2.

Well deserved game loss!

[PirateKing]

Are all the punishments for this kind of thing steeped in the assumption that all spectators are also participants?

[cdr]

3.2. Tournament Error — Outside Assistance

Penalty
Match Loss

Definition
A player, spectator, or other tournament participant does any of the following:
• Seeks play advice or hidden information about his or her match from others once he or she has sat for his or her match.
• Gives play advice or reveals hidden information to players who have sat for their match.
• During a game, refers to notes (other than Oracle™ pages) made before the official beginning of the current match.

These criteria also apply to any deck construction and draft portions of a limited tournament. Additionally, no notes of any kind may be made during a draft. Some team formats have additional communication rules that may modify the definition of this infraction.

Notes made outside the current match may only be referenced between games, and must have been in the player’s possession since the beginning of the match.

Examples
A. During a game, a player references play notes that were created before the tournament.
B. A spectator points out the correct play to a player who had not solicited the information.

Philosophy
Tournaments test the skill of a player, not his or her ability to follow external advice or directions. Any strategy advice, play advice, or construction advice from an external source is considered outside assistance. Visual modifications to cards, including brief text, that provide minor strategic information or hints are acceptable and not considered notes. Detailed instructions or complex strategic advice may not be written on cards. The Head Judge is the final arbiter on what cards and notes are acceptable for a tournament. Spectators who commit this infraction may be asked to leave the venue if they are not enrolled in the tournament.


Are all the punishments for this kind of thing steeped in the assumption that all spectators are also participants?

Even if not enrolled in the tournament, spectators can be entered into the software and given match losses for tracking purposes. They can also be ejected from the venue if the behavior is egregious / malicious.

[Jonathan Alexander]

[font=courier](...)
• During a game, refers to notes (other than Oracle™ pages) made before the official beginning of the current match.


When exactly is that?

[nedleeds]

Last round of Day1 at GP Paris. Sneak Show vs some other deck.

Other player is tapped out, Sneak Show has Sneak Attack in play, Emrakul in hand, opponent at 5 life. For some reason the Sneak Show player thinks about his play for ages, prompting a spectator to say "Is it really all that hard?". The spectator received a match loss for that on the following Day2.

C'mon ... is it really that hard? :) In the Sneak Attack players defense there is always Spirit Guide, Spirit Guide, Manamorphose for WW for kicked Orim's Chant to think about.

[cdr]

When exactly is that?

I'm wondering whether you missed the "during a game" part. But after both players have kept their hands (pregame procedure complete) and the round is started by the head judge.

[Jonathan Alexander]

I'm wondering whether you missed the "during a game" part. But after both players have kept their hands (pregame procedure complete) and the round is started by the head judge.

I was actually thinking about notes that are taken after sitting down. Not that I think it's likely to ever come up, but I thought it'd be good to know, so thank you.