Esper Thopter Foundry

[maharis]

Chris Andersen has had some recent success with this deck. He made 13th at an open in January with it:

1 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Sword of the Meek
3 Thopter Foundry

3 Baleful Strix
2 Snapcaster Mage

4 Brainstorm
2 Counterspell
4 Dig Through Time
4 Force of Will
2 Mental Note
2 Spell Snare
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Thought Scour

1 Supreme Verdict
3 Thoughtseize

1 Seat of the Synod
1 Creeping Tar Pit
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
4 Tundra
3 Underground Sea
1 Academy Ruins
1 Karakas

Sideboard:
1 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Tsabo's Web
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Baneslayer Angel
3 Counterbalance
1 Detention Sphere
1 Humility
1 Seal of Cleansing
2 Enlightened Tutor
1 Surgical Extraction

At the invitational, he made top 8, and I believe he had to go at least 6-2 in Legacy to do that. The list was almost exactly the same with these changes:

Maindeck: -1 Mental Note, +1 Ponder
Sideboard: -3 Counterbalance, -2 Sensei's Divining Top, -1 Surgical Extraction, +3 Hymn to Tourach, +2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang, +1 Engineered Plague
Link here if you want to see the whole thing (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=81896)

I wanted to play the Invi list last night at my local but I forgot my Thought Scours and only had 3 digs. So I played the full set of Ponders, a Gifts Ungiven, and a Lingering Souls, and cut the Mental Note for a basic island.

I promptly got obliterated by BUG Veteran Planeswalkers, Infect, and Enchantress. (However, I did get to resolve a Gifts for Sword of the Meek, Baleful Strix, Force of Will, and Academy Ruins against Enchantress, which felt good until they comboed off the next turn.)

Has anyone else tested this deck?

[alphastryk]

I've been keeping an eye on this but I haven't had a chance to try it myself yet. Definitely seems like it has a lot of potential.

[maharis]

Did some more testing. Really want to replace Thoughtseize. In some matchups it takes a while to get thopters online and the life loss can be relevant. Question is what goes in:

-IOK doesn't cost life, and I'm not really sure what is 4 or more that we can't counter or otherwise deal with.
-Cabal Therapy has synergy with the mill cards, tokens, and can hit multiples of cards like Abrupt Decay or Force of Will or LED that can be annoying
-More removal in the form of Innocent Blood, Murderous Cut, or another sweeper could be useful.

Spell Snare is also on watch.... It hits a lot of important cards but whiffs a lot too.

I think this would be a good Myth Realized deck to present a different angle of attack.

I also really feel like this deck needs a planeswalker... Jace is obvious, but one of the 4cc Sorins or Tezzeret could work too.

[FoolofaTook]

19 land and only 4 dig cards seems dangerous. Thoughtscour and Mental Note are as likely to mill you past your second land as to find it for you.

[ZimAshe]

So after watching Chris play this at the invitational i took to for a drive at my LGS. I played 4 rounds and went 1-3. I know most of that was unfamiliarity with the deck and misplays. This deck is super fun to play though and all my matches went three games except round three. My matches were UWR Control, Dredge, Blood Moon dot deck, Junk Nic Fit. I won't go into details about specific matches but i will do a simple run down of some thought I have about the deck.

This is a hyper Dig Through Time deck. What i mean by that is this decks wants to Dig Through Time as quickly as possible. This helps to find the combo or answers. In one match i cast dig four times and still had two left in my deck. Find cards like thoughtseize of counterspies to force through the combo are also good for the deck. The deck has an extreme weakness to wasteland and blood moon because it runs 0 basics. I had the unfortunate privilege of playing against a mono red blood moon stompy deck round three and just had to scoop when a magus hit the board. I was a big fan of the Thoughtscours as they helped to feed delve and have great synergy with sword of the meek if you happen to mill one over. One of the cards I really questioned was Spell Snare. It was basically FoW fodder and cast it once all night to stop a Young Pyromancer from hitting the table. In the future I think that card would be better served as a Spell Pierce. The deck is very very good at grinding out wins and I won all of my game ones in four rounds. I am currently messing around with a transformational sideboard into a more controlling Esper deck.

Potential Sideboard:

2 Flusterstorm
1 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Containment Priest
1 Disenchant
2 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Vendilion Clique
2 Jace, The Mind Sculptor
1 Batterskull
2 Tasigur, the golden fang

[Philipp2293]

Went 3-0-1 at a local event with the unchanged Chris Anderson list yesterday. MUs were Merfolk (2-1), Infect (2-0), UWr Miracles (1-1-1, but was in a commanding position and 1 or 2 turns away from winning when we timed out) and RB Goblins (2-1).

I think 19 Lands is fine, even with the "bad" cantrips. If you go higher you will flood out too often. I'm not a fan of the E-tutor SB, but yesterday both Plague and Humility served my well if you look at my MUs. Tasigur was MVP out of the SB.

Yes, Blood Moon is bad, but if you manage to stick a Thopter Foundry first, you still have a shot at winning.

@ZimAshe: I really like the look of your SB, please keep us updated how your testing goes.

[Chrandersen]

Spell snare is awesome. its blue and pitches to force worst case scenerio, and provides mana value in hard counter form. You dont want to play spell pierce because its a soft counter, and you have no pressure. Its easy for an opponent to just wait your soft counters out if you arent killing them ever. Most decks have good 2 drops to counter and spell snare is a fantastic target for snapcaster mage.

Dont cut the baneslayer for batterskull. The fact that none of the creautres you bring in get killed by abrupt decay is really important. SFM isnt really needed, and you never really want to tutor for your combo pieces via Stoneforge or enlightened tutor. Just grind them out and beat them eventually when theyre out of resources.

Jace is pretty hard to protect in this deck, and you dont need the card advantage he provides. Dig does an excellent job of that already. I havent tried him yet though and he is jace, so it might be okay as a one of in the board.

any other questions let me know. The deck is very very real.

[maharis]

Spell snare is awesome. its blue and pitches to force worst case scenerio, and provides mana value in hard counter form. You dont want to play spell pierce because its a soft counter, and you have no pressure. Its easy for an opponent to just wait your soft counters out if you arent killing them ever. Most decks have good 2 drops to counter and spell snare is a fantastic target for snapcaster mage.

Dont cut the baneslayer for batterskull. The fact that none of the creautres you bring in get killed by abrupt decay is really important. SFM isnt really needed, and you never really want to tutor for your combo pieces via Stoneforge or enlightened tutor. Just grind them out and beat them eventually when theyre out of resources.

Jace is pretty hard to protect in this deck, and you dont need the card advantage he provides. Dig does an excellent job of that already. I havent tried him yet though and he is jace, so it might be okay as a one of in the board.

any other questions let me know. The deck is very very real.

Thanks Chris. I have a lot of questions, sorry for being annoying but I really love the idea of a blue control deck that doesn't play Countertop or SFM.

What was your Legacy record at the invi?

Which of your sideboards did you like better? Tasigur is ridiculous after board, I love it.

What do you think about swapping out Thoughtseize for some other sort of disruption or removal? I think Cabal Therapy might be better, I know it doesn't always hit turn 1 but we usually also know what cards beat us by turn 2 or 3. I just like the idea of being able to nail multiple Decays or Counterbalances, and it's ridiculous against SFM decks (in fact I would say Batterskull is the only compelling reason to play Seize over IoK since we're going to be using our life total aggressively and we can plan around whatever other scary 4+ drops they may have with our suite of countermagic.) I will be testing therapy but I can see an argument for any of them.

Maybe I'm playing Snare wrong. Do we always want to hold it up if we can? I've always played it as a "nice to have," where I will usually err on the side of developing my board (strix/top) or playing a proactive spell (in this deck it's really only ponder or thoughtseize). I have noticed that it's nice to have 5 extra one-mana cantrips in scour/note so that you can hold up snare and still develop your GY at their EOT if you want. I agree that spell pierce is not what we want instead, but what about Flusterstorm or Swan Song, or even Stifle?

I only mentioned Jace or PWs in general because I felt like sometimes I was scrambling to assemble thopter-sword and thought something that could add real pressure would be nice to find off of Dig if we only have one piece. I really think one of the Sorins might be a good add, and Solemn Visitor has the benefit of not just dying to Night of Soul's Betrayal (which someone dropped on me out of Nic Fit). Tezzeret is nice because we have a decent amount of artifacts and he can make a strix huge (and we can win in one turn with a bunch of thopters and his ultimate). Any thoughts?

Also, I've noticed that when I do win, my exile and GY pile is huge compared to my library. That's just an observation to say that DTT is ridiculous.

[Jizz]

Congratulations for this deck ! Very nicely built.

Why play W over R ?
I feel like a deck in legacy needs Reb nowadays :). Bolt + Thopter is approximately the same as Bolt + Thopter (except for Knight of the Reliquary maybe). Whipflare and/or Toxic Deluge is also quite the same as Supreme Verdict. R also opens up to Dack Fayden MD, and Blood moon, Keranos in the sideboard (with a slight change to the manabase).
It also feels weird to play Hymn in a deck with 4 dig, 2 counterspell and 2 snare , and I would prefer Reb in that slot (with snapcastermage). I'd like to have your opinions on that matter.
(Goblin welder ? ^^)

[ZimAshe]

Chris, how often do you side out the combo and what are you bringing in? I'm assuming that's what the Baneslayer and Tasigurs are for to get a better faster clock on your opponent.

[ZimAshe]

Bringing this list tonight to my LGS for our weekly Legacy event. I have made 0 changes to the main deck and implemented a transformational sideboard. I had a lot of grat success game one against my opponents but couldn't fight the hate game 2 and 3. the idea is to side out the combo and side in Jace, Baneslayer and Tasigur game 2 against the fair decks. opposing combo decks like dredge, storm, etc get more counter magic, GY hate, etc. I should have a handle on this later tonight.


Main Deck (60)


Creatures (5)

2 Snapcaster Mage
3 Baleful Strix

Spells (36)

1 Mental Note
1 Ponder
1 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Spell Snare
3 Thoughtseize
4 Brainstorm
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Thought Scour
2 Counterspell
2 Sword of the Meek
3 Thopter Foundry
1 Supreme Verdict
4 Force of Will
4 Dig Through Time

Lands (19)

1 Academy Ruins
1 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Karakas
1 Seat of the Synod
3 Underground Sea
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
4 Tundra

Sideboard (15)

1 Engineered Explosives
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Pithing Needle
2 Flusterstorm
1 Disenchant
1 Zealous Persecution
2 Containment Priest
1 Vendilion Clique
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Baneslayer Angel
2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang

[Ruckusmh]

Bringing this list tonight to my LGS for our weekly Legacy event. I have made 0 changes to the main deck and implemented a transformational sideboard. I had a lot of grat success game one against my opponents but couldn't fight the hate game 2 and 3. the idea is to side out the combo and side in Jace, Baneslayer and Tasigur game 2 against the fair decks. opposing combo decks like dredge, storm, etc get more counter magic, GY hate, etc. I should have a handle on this later tonight.

Let us know how it goes, I've only done a little bit of testing so far so not much of anything to contribute, but I do check this thread when it gets bumped. Very interesting deck.

[TraxDaMax]

Since I only own 1 Tundra and didn't feel like borrowing some, I played a Sultai version of this last weekend. Green for Life from the Loam, Abrupt Decay and side Krosan Grip. Went a horrible 1win-3loss-1draw but other then a Temur delver deck that went way too fast all games were pretty close. The annoying thing to me is how hard it is sometimes to actually stabilize. And some cards hate us out so much like Engineered Plague or that 4mana enchantment that gives all creatures -1/-1.

[maharis]

Since I only own 1 Tundra and didn't feel like borrowing some, I played a Sultai version of this last weekend. Green for Life from the Loam, Abrupt Decay and side Krosan Grip. Went a horrible 1win-3loss-1draw but other then a Temur delver deck that went way too fast all games were pretty close. The annoying thing to me is how hard it is sometimes to actually stabilize. And some cards hate us out so much like Engineered Plague or that 4mana enchantment that gives all creatures -1/-1.

Can you post the list? I've been working on something similar.

The card you're thinking of is Night of Souls Betrayal. What deck was playing that? What were your matchups?

[maharis]

I'll be testing this tonight at my local:

3 Baleful Strix
2 Snapcaster Mage

4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Swords to Plowshares
3-4 Dig Through Time
3-4 Gitaxian Probe
3-4 Ponder
3 Cabal Therapy
3 Thopter Foundry
2 Sword of the Meek
2 Counterspell
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Sensei's Divining Top
0-1 Spell Snare
0-1 Dimir Charm

4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
3 Underground Sea
3 Tundra
1 Seat of the Synod
1 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Academy Ruins
1 Island
0-1 Karakas
0-1 Plains

I have done testing going with a more traditional cantrip suite of Probe + Ponder, and Cabal Therapy. I started by playing the regular deck, drawing my hand, and saying, how often do I wish that this Thought Scour was just a Probe? The answer was surprisingly often.

At the end of the day, we are paying 5 mana and using two cards to get a single 1/1 (OK, technically a 2/3, but whatever). We have no way of dealing with a card like Abrupt Decay or Counterbalance other than discard or countering. Knowing whether or not those cards are there is crucial information that can help us sculpt our plan for the entire game and prevent us from making a mistake that ends up with us not able to win the game. I know that we see their hand off Thoughtseize/IoK as well, but we do go down a card and use a turn's worth of mana, and if we see DRS-Goyf-Brainstorm-Decay-Wasteland-2x Fetch I think I'd rather dig a card deeper toward my Verdict or know that I should hold up a fetch/get a basic land than have just gone down to 17, have a wasteable land, and be facing down a serious clock.

Also I never plan to fire off a blind Therapy, I would rather wait for a Probe or play a Ponder/Top or hold up a fetch/counter/Brainstorm. You get bonus value from playing against a Stoneforge Mystic. Most decks you can figure out after the first turn or two anyway, and then name the card that kills your plan. Sure, sometimes they're going to go Underground Sea - Ponder - Shuffle and you're going to name Abrupt Decay and they're going to show you LED-Petal-Ritual-Ritual-Volc-Burning Wish, but even then you have outs.

Further, we have a lot of disposable creatures in our deck. Strix and SCM have CIP abilities, so we don't really have to keep them around if we absolutely have to get rid of something. And of course Thopters are free bodies.

And of course while it's not turbo-DTT anymore (hence potentially going down to 3) you still fill the GY up pretty fast without the threat of milling past your fun-ofs like TarPit, Ruins, Top that you might really want later in the game. I will miss the blowout plays of EOT Mental Note, Brainstorm, crack fetch, DTT, untap having just seen 13 cards, but they are so rare anyway. I've found I either chug right along with like 20 cards in exile, GY/hand, and library and ripping through my deck to find the combo, or I am stuck with multiple DTTs and Mental Note effects in my opener and no real selection or action.

I have 11 slots for Probe, Ponder, and DTT. I'm leaning toward 4-3-4, but 4-4-3 might be better. 3-4-4 is possibly right, but I doubt it, as looking at their hand turn 0 is really important for setting up my mana and cantripping.

Further... Spell Snare has been brainstorm-shuffle-fodder more than anything. I think Dimir Charm is a better fit because it nails problematic combo spells (Infernal, Burning Wish, NO, GSZ, Glimpse, S&T, Time Spiral), kills SFM/DRS/Mom/Thalia, and even gives me a (potentially better?) Mental Note-style effect if I am really digging for something (or want to fateseal my opponent). I am a huge sucker for modal spells though so this might be totally wrong. I also still will keep one Snare in because of 1 cmc.

I will probably toss a sideboard together right before the event just after I see who's in the store. My meta is ridiculously high on Enchantress so I might have to (locate and) play Leave No Trace or Tempest of Light. In fact, last time I played, I had Seal of Cleansing out postboard, opponent had a Seal of Removal and he remarked this might have been the first time two Nemesis seals had been in play against each other in the history of the store as he was bouncing and replaying his Cloud of Faeries for ridiculous mana. I also will probably test a Sorin in place of BSA, I just don't think casting BSA is feasible against the decks I want it for, and Sorin is really nice against Miracles and Abrupt Decay decks. Karakas might become basic plains because if I do run into Blood Moon I need to be able to cast Seal of Cleansing or whatever, and I don't see a ton of S&T/Reanimator recently.

[TraxDaMax]

Can you post the list? I've been working on something similar.

The card you're thinking of is Night of Souls Betrayal. What deck was playing that? What were your matchups?

4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Dig Through Time
2 Life from the Loam
2 Spell Pierce
2 Spell Snare
1 Counterspell
3 Mental Note
3 Thought Scour
1 Intuition
3 Baleful Strix
2 Snapcaster Mage
3 Thopter Foundry
2 Sword of the Meek
1 Enginiereed Explosives
1 Damnation

4 Polluted Delta
2 Scalding Tarn
1 Flooded Strand
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Island
1 Swamp
2 Creeping Tarpit
3 Tropical Island
3 Underground Sea

Side

1 Batterskull
1 Vendillion Clique
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Diabolic Edict
1 Pithing Needle
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Intuition
1 Krosan Grip
1 Nihil Spellbomb
3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Counterbalance

Round 1 DnT 1-2
Round 2 UR Delver 0-2
Round 3 ANT 2-1
Round 4 RUG Delver 0-2
Round 5 UW Stoneblade 1-1

Night of Souls Betrayal was in testing against Shardless, they play one side and it is hella annoying. That and Null Rod are just ugh...
Anyways, the main thing I think I will be changing are adding 2 land, being 1 Academy Ruins and probably a Bayou and cutting a Mental Note and a Thought Scour.
In testing before the tournament I never had trouble finding land with 18 lands, 10 cantrips and 2 Loam but in the tournament I lost several games off not drawing enough, getting wastelanded, or tax effects such as Thalia/Rishadan Port.

[maharis]

Thanks for posting. I'm going to continue exploring BUG but I liked how last night went with Esper.

Per my post above, I played 4 Probe, 4 Ponder, 3 Dig Through Time, 1 Spell Snare, 0 Dimir Charm, 1 Plains. My sideboard was:

2 Thoughtseize
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
1 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Dread of Night
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Seal of Cleansing
1 Detention Sphere
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Pithing Needle

Rd 1 D&T: Lose die roll and he opens Flagstones-Vial. OK. I draw, probe him, see Mom x2, Brimaz, and two lands including Wasteland. I debate, but fetch U-Sea and Therapy away both moms. He Wastes my sea and passes. I cantrip to find more land, but he rips Thalia and Port and I can't get going before Brimaz hits the field.

Game 2: I go to 6 on the play and keep Tar Pit, fetch, EE, other stuff. I start on Tar Pit but he wastes. I rip a land though. At some point Probe reveals SFM, Serra Avenger, Spirit of the Labyrinth. Nice EE setup. Avenger comes down first, then Spirit. I am at 6 when I therapy Batterskull and EE away all three two-drops, then drop Dread of Night. But I have no way to win and he assembles vial on 3 and Brimaz which I can't beat. Could not find Pithing Needle off multiple digs to shut off Vial despite the fact I had multiple STP and SCM.

This matchup is near unwinnable with the current configuration. They have Revoker MB, which makes Thopters very difficult, in addition to the obvious pressure on the mana base and counterspells with Waste/Port/Thalia/Vial. After the match I told him I boarded out my Foundries and brought in tasigur (left in Swords for value on Strixes) and he reminded me that he has Karakas. Nearly stepped in it there.

I get a bye, then...

Rd 2 cloudpost: Player I am very familiar/friendly with, so I actually opened on blind therapy naming Expedition Map, hitting one and leaving him with 2 primeval titans and lands. I cast a strix and flash back to kill titans, gutting his hand, but I can't win through having to Swords Ulamog, which blows up my Foundry, before he's able to stick Emrakul. I actually get one block in with Strix, saccing a bunch of thopters and lands, but Emrakul shuffles and he has Eye of Ugin, so...

Game 2: I'm on the play again we both go to six. I probe him and see 3 titans and 3 lands. He explains that there's enough mana in that hand to make it worth keeping, especially since he draws another card. I cantrip looking for therapy, don't find it, ship. He draws Top, plays and passes. I start digging some more to find Therapy. A couple turns of land-go later I am able to strip them, but obviously I haven't been able to slow his mana development. He needles Thopter Foundry. I pick away with SCM and strix and cast Sorin, making an emblem. He shows in Emrakul. I dig through time and find Supreme Verdict and Creeping Tar Pit. What luck! I attack with some beefy Strixes, cast Verdict (Emrakul shuffles), make a guy with Sorin and drop Tar Pit. But he finds Eye and gets Ulamog, killing Sorin, and I can't win through it.

This matchup is also difficult because of mainboard Needle and the fact that we can't really interact with their mana development. My initial thought: Shadow of Doubt might be really good here, especially with SCM, or maybe even Aven Mindcensor. Depends, of course, if those are good elsewhere.

Rd 3 Miracles: Win die roll, we both play land-go for a while with me plinking away with a strix. Eventually he's at 4 lands when I probe and see triple force, STP, Entreat, Jace. I cast Therapy. He responds with STP on Strix. I force STP. He forces Therapy. Counters resolve. I attack, then flash back naming Jace. I eventually win with Sword of the Meek on Strix and a Creeping Tar Pit.

Game 2: This game was insane. I go to 6 with a few lands, Probe, a cantrip, Spell Snare. He plays a land and I open on Probe finding Counterbalance, REB, Rest in Peace, Entreat, lands. I rip Therapy off that draw and get Counterbalance out of there. He plays another land and passes. I cantrip and find a second therapy, probe him seeing he has counterspell now, and pass. He untaps, cantrips, and jams RIP. I snare it. Resolves. I therapy REB. He jams Jace, I force, he counterspells. I kill jace with tar pit. I assemble thopters, he assembles Countertop, there's a Terminus somewhere in there, he needles Foundry, and I resolve Sorin, which eats Council's Judgement. But I'm pressuring with my Sorin token and a Tar Pit. At some point I have top and the top three cards of my library are DTT, Force, Force and I have lots of lands in play and nothing in hand. I draw DTT. He miracles Entreat. I flip top and hardcast force. Resolves. we each play top in our turns. He tries Entreat again, I do the same thing. Keep attacking with Tar Pit. He resolves a Jace, brainstorms, and extends his hand. I slump onto the table with exhaustion.

This matchup isn't terrible, but it is intense. REB is a threat. But thats why Probe and Therapy are so important. In this matchup, you are definitely not riding Strix to the end so you can think of it as a Snapcaster for therapy.

I have to say I definitely think this approach is right. There was no time when I wished I had Thought Scour or Thoughtseize. Had I played against Storm or Painter perhaps Thoughtseize would've been missed, but that's what the sideboard is for.

I don't know if the D&T matchup can be saved, though. They have us on too many angles. BUG might be better there just because of Decay but the mana is arguably worse.

Speaking of which, other than value/style points I can't think of a reason to play Karakas over plains. I feel like we should have ample ways to defeat S&T and Reanimator with all the counters and discard. I love my beat up English Legends Karakas but I'd rather have more outs to Blood Moon.

[TraxDaMax]

I'm thinking in my build Liliana could be pretty decent, I just have no clue what the cut could be.

[maharis]

Kind of a bust tonight as I only got to play two rounds of actual magic, going 1-1. (Round 1 bye, round 4 ID)

I played the same maindeck and a different sideboard, with no Surgicals, 2 E-tutors, 1 tasigur, 1 cloudform and 1 dreadnought. My feeling was that I wanted some sort of e-tutorable wincon that didn't have the same weaknesses as Thopters.

I beat RUG Delver 2-0. Was at 1 life for quite a while in game 2 but he couldn't close it out.

I lost to TES 1-2. Game 1 was funny: My 7 was academy ruins and 6 spells, and my 6 was plains, force x2, probe, dig, brainstorm. So bad. But I kept it because I had double force. He leads on probe, therapy, which I accidentally let resolve (he named force obv). I drew some dreck and probed him to find land, lotus petal, LED, infernal tutor, dark ritual. Well, I'm dead unless I rip another force. Of course I did because blue. I forced his IT after he cracked LED and eventually won somehow.

Game 2 I couldn't find enough disruption.

Game 3 I actually hit him with 5 discard spells, but thoughtseize and probe chewed my life total up so much that it didn't take him many lucky topdecks to hit storm 4 with tendrils.

My friend on cloudpost generously split with me so I wouldn't have to get pounded and drop from the store credit tier to the pack tier. My LGS is upping legacy prices and prizes starting in May, though, so not sure if that will ever happen again.

[solidbass]

I'm super excited that I found this thread. I've been theory crafting a thoptor brew for quite some time and with Chris Anderson having actual success it in gives me hope.
My questions are; what is the core of this deck?
Is Thought Scour/Mental Note really necessary or can these be replaced with Ponder since it's a "better" cantrip?
Can more artifacts be added like Engineered Explosives, maybe even some amount of the swords and Umezawa's Jitte? I heard the elves matchup was bad and EE and Jitte help tremendously.
If the artifact plan is followed, is Tezzeret an option?

Anyways, I'll be testing out some ideas once I'm done with school and hopefully I'll be able to provide some valuable reports.

[maharis]

I'm super excited that I found this thread. I've been theory crafting a thoptor brew for quite some time and with Chris Anderson having actual success it in gives me hope.
My questions are; what is the core of this deck?
Is Thought Scour/Mental Note really necessary or can these be replaced with Ponder since it's a "better" cantrip?
Can more artifacts be added like Engineered Explosives, maybe even some amount of the swords and Umezawa's Jitte? I heard the elves matchup was bad and EE and Jitte help tremendously.
If the artifact plan is followed, is Tezzeret an option?

Anyways, I'll be testing out some ideas once I'm done with school and hopefully I'll be able to provide some valuable reports.

Welcome! I have been playing Ponder, Gitaxian Probe & Cabal Therapy over the self-mill and Thoughtseizes. I also only play 3 Digs. I think this configuration is better. That's really the only difference between what I've been playing and what Chris has played. I've been doing it because Academy Ruins is really important to the deck and milling past it is the worst. Plus as we're trying to be a control deck with a combo finish, the information off of Probe is invaluable, and being able to chew up their hand with Therapy is also very relevant. Pyroblast effects are real.

I haven't played against elves yet with this deck. Sometimes I bring a Perish because of elves, enchantress, and Tarmogoyf decks but I switched that to an EE which is of course a beating with Academy Ruins. I wouldn't bother with other equipment, we don't really have enough creatures to wear it. Against them I would just bring in extra discard, counter their key cards, sweep the board a couple times with Verdict/EE. We also have Ethersworn Canonist and can play Containment Priest if we really need to. Don't forget they have abrupt decay so bring in your backup plan (usually tasigur, but I'm a nutcase trying to cloudform a dreadnought).

I want to like the Tezzeret idea, but I can't help but think that Dig does what we want him to do and out of the board Sorin is better because there are matchups where we want a planeswalker that beats REB.

That gets me to tonight's report. I am out of town so visiting a different store. Played three matches, all Miracles.

Rd. 1: 1-1 draw. He is playing Monastery Mentor. Game one takes forever but I stick it out, game 2 I actually get Dread of Night down but Wear/Tear kills it and I scoop to him in turns when he is about to untap with 7 monks. This was really tough to board against.

Rd. 2: More traditional build. He has some mana flood issues and I win 2-0.

Rd. 3: Another traditional build. In game 1 we both mull to 6. He keeps top, two lands, two entreats and a terminus. I open on probe-therapy on SDT but I can never get it going before he rebuilds and wins. It's a total beating: he finds a a counterbalance and blind flips stuff. Game 2 he gets manascrewed and I take it, game 3 I manage to ultimate Sorin taking his Jace and his Snapcaster Mage, eventually winning with some Thopters.

So a good result but boy, Miracles is everywhere. I hope they don't ban Dig or Top.

[solidbass]

The Cabal Therapy tech sounds awesome. I'm assuming your split is 3/3/3 for ponder, g probe and therapy?

How about the lands? Are you still running 19?
I'm coming from Esper Stoneblade and 21 to 22 lands just seems right, but I could be totally wrong.

You might be totally right with wanting to beat REB, the format is just so blue right now, I'll have to Sorin a shot.
So my idea with equipment is that this deck can just have naked creatures a lot of the time, ie baleful strix, snapcaster mage and lone thopter foundries. With an enlightened tutor you could just get a sword and start wrecking house. Classic Esper Stoneblade runs less than 10 creatures and if you count the foundries, this deck is in a similar boat, especially postboard with Tasigur. It's another axis to work from that may be less consistent but significantly less reliant on the gy.

Based on your results, I'm liking the Miracles matchup, it might even be favorable?!

How is Storm? I feel like being unable to apply pressure quickly hurts the matchup quite a bit, however the amount of disruption this deck can put up is insane so maybe early pressure isn't too necessary.

Which brings me to the question; What is this deck's good and bad matchups?

[maharis]

This is my list:

3 Baleful Strix
2 Snapcaster Mage

4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Cabal Therapy
3 Dig Through Time
3 Thopter Foundry
2 Counterspell
2 Sword of the Meek
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Spell Snare

4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
3 Underground Sea
3 Tundra
1 Plains
1 Island
1 Seat of the Synod
1 Academy Ruins
1 Creeping Tar Pit

2 Enlightened Tutor
2 Thoughtseize
1 Dread of Night
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
1 Seal of Cleansing
1 Detention Sphere
1 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
1 Cloudform
1 Phyrexian Dreadnought
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Pithing Needle
1 Nihil Spellbomb

Keeping in mind I haven't played a ton of matches with the deck...

-Yes to 19 lands. I don't play Karakas because I think we lose more to Blood Moon/Wasteland than we win against Sneak/Reanimator by mising Karakas. But especially in the Probe build mana screw is not that much of a concern. Also, it's more like 18 lands because you really shouldn't run out Academy Ruins unless you really need it. That card has won me a lot of games and just making it wasteland bait is the worst. If I am Pondering to hit a land drop and the only land I see is Ruins, I would rather shuffle it away and get it later.

-I have resolved Sorin in almost every match I've played against Miracles and he is a total house. Maybe it should be Bitterblossom but now that I've actually ultimated him and taken a Jace I don't think that's ever happening. Also Sorin beats Abrupt Decay so he's an option against BUG decks. Tezzeret dying to REB and requiring an artifact on board to become a wincon gives me pause. Remember that every deck that plays REB is bringing it in and it hits Thopter Foundry.

-I actually put in the Cloudform package to create an e-tutorable alternate wincon. I know it's janky but I'm pretty sure there are matches where you can Cloudform a land and get there with a 2/2 flyer, or you just one- or two-shot them with Dreadnought. Equipment is a little awkward because of the mana investment and speed -- usually with the alt wincon you want something that you can just smash in with fast. Tasigur is the best at that, except for the D&T matchup which I will get to later.

-Miracles is slightly favorable. The actual miracle cards aren't that great against us, Terminus is pretty much a non-issue and I have hardcast-Forced several Entreats. Counterbalance is annoying but we don't have to let it resolve (This is a great use of Spell Snare). We can play a more aggressive game early and force them into an uncomfortable position, especially since we have lots of looks at their hand and know what their vulnerabilities are. Postboard the hate comes in hard for Thopter Foundry, but they really have trouble with Sorin, and we can cut off their wincons with EE and Pithing Needle (and they can't do anything about Academy Ruins unless they have Blood Moon, but if they have Blood Moon you are super dead anyway). I don't bring in Tasigur, the Cloudform package, or the tutors

-Storm is... basically what you'd expect. Sometimes you lose, other times you have enough disruption. I board out Thopter/Sword for Taz and Cloudform package. If you think they have Empty the Warrens bring in EE.

-Based on my limited testing, Miracles is a good matchup, if exhausting. My RUG match was pretty smooth. Death & Taxes is pretty much unwinnable: They have mainboard Foundry hate (Revoker), they go after our greedy mana base, and they get around counters with Aether Vial. Oh, and they have Karakas for Tasigur if you try to go that route. You basically need to drop Dread of Night on them early to have a prayer, so bring in your E-tutors and try to set up Dreadnought to close it out fast. Cloudpost decks are also very difficult if not impossible because we have no way to interact with their game plan and they have mainboard Pithing Needle.

[solidbass]

So I built the Cabal Therapy version of the deck and it is just so awesome. I jammed maybe 10 games preboard against storm and it's probably about 50/50, although I will admit I'm not the best storm player. Getting an early Cabal therapy+Creature just thrashes the hand. Postboard, Canonist is an obvious beating as well as Flusterstorm.

I'm a little surprised about Death and Taxes being so horrible. I guess it makes some sense with mana disruption, but the tools are definitely there to take care of all their creatures. I like MD 1 Enlightened Tutor and 1-2 Engineered explosives cutting a ponder and/or probe which could help the fair matches quite a lot and not hurting the Miracles matchup too much either.

After some thought Jace and Tezzeret just seem too slow and 4 mana can be quite hard to get to against an even moderate mana denial strategy. Especially if those things could just get countered by a 1 mana spell.

I'm a little curious about the burn and u/r delver matchup, it seems difficult but doable especially if we hold back lands and go for an early thoptor combo.

[maharis]

I definitely should've beaten Storm the one time I played it. I lost because of Thoughtseize, he was able to Tendrils for a couple less because I had probe/seized so much. Might be worth switching those to Duress, I don't think we're ever bringing them in to hit a creature.

I've considered EE mainboard as well but with Trinket Mage. Mage is awkward because it only gets Seat, EE, and Top, and I am not sure it's better than Baleful Strix (2 power is nice, but no evasion, and +1 cmc to select rather than draw random is... a decision at least). However it's such a sweet card. Tutoring is awesome. E-tutor i don't like in the main because in game 1 we are just trying to react to what they're doing. We don't have a lot of relevant proactive cards that we can find with it. Plus it's card disadvantage and doesn't pitch to Force.

Against burn you clearly want to just jam your combo out there and try not to die too early. Save counters for Fireblast and Price of Progress and you should be OK. Chill/Warmth are potential E-tutor targets in the board. There's also always Hydroblast effects (which don't hurt against Blood Moon either) if you need it.

Blue burn decks shouldn't be that bad. They have more creatures and cantrips than shots to the dome and they aren't just going to win out of nowhere with Fireblast usually. With both decks gotta watch out for REB and Smash to Smithereens postboard.

[solidbass]

I definitely should've beaten Storm the one time I played it. I lost because of Thoughtseize, he was able to Tendrils for a couple less because I had probe/seized so much. Might be worth switching those to Duress, I don't think we're ever bringing them in to hit a creature.

I've considered EE mainboard as well but with Trinket Mage. Mage is awkward because it only gets Seat, EE, and Top, and I am not sure it's better than Baleful Strix (2 power is nice, but no evasion, and +1 cmc to select rather than draw random is... a decision at least). However it's such a sweet card. Tutoring is awesome. E-tutor i don't like in the main because in game 1 we are just trying to react to what they're doing. We don't have a lot of relevant proactive cards that we can find with it. Plus it's card disadvantage and doesn't pitch to Force.

Against burn you clearly want to just jam your combo out there and try not to die too early. Save counters for Fireblast and Price of Progress and you should be OK. Chill/Warmth are potential E-tutor targets in the board. There's also always Hydroblast effects (which don't hurt against Blood Moon either) if you need it.

Blue burn decks shouldn't be that bad. They have more creatures and cantrips than shots to the dome and they aren't just going to win out of nowhere with Fireblast usually. With both decks gotta watch out for REB and Smash to Smithereens postboard.

The more games I jam with storm the better I feel against the matchup, sure sometimes they just win but TS and counterspells do a ton of work. The only issue I have is applying pressure, we need to essentially lock them down with DTT chains until they give up, at least pre board. Post board, I think, is quite self explanatory. I think I need to proxy up some more decks here...lol.
From the looks of it, I'd say we're unfavored against burn preboard but favored post.

Trinket mage can be great but at 3 mana I'm not sure it's worth it. Cutting baleful strix for it is especially not where we want to be. Baleful cantrips AND is a kill spell. It can also trigger the sword if you're running the thought scour build. Speaking of which, thought scour can really get this deck going in a hurry. I'm still unsure about a full playset and some number of mental notes. It has great synergy with DTT but it also clears out brainstorms and ponders too.
Also I'm a bit unsure about Gprobe. This is a very reactive deck while g probe is not a reactive card and doesn't dig all that particularly well like Ponder does. It is a free spell and helps contribute to DTT. However, I think more testing needs to be done on my part to evaluate each particular strategy and find the one that suits me best.


At some point I'll get a gauntlet going and get some solid results in.

[jmonk]

I know there was a similar deck with counterbalance in addition to thopter sword. is there any strategic advantage of just playing thopter sword combo without countertop?

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Hey guys, I've been working on a decklist after reading a Carsten Kotter article (Looking At Legacy At The Invitational on SCG.com), when I saw a Thopters list that was UW. I had been playing a UW Stoneblade deck with a couple Foundry and a SotMeek in the board with an Elspeth, which had been doing wonderful things for my Miracles and MUD matchups, so when I read the article and saw the list (Chris Anderson's build), I knew this was where I was headed. I had posted my deck in the Stoneblade thread, but this seems more appropriate. I'm not a fan of black in my build, it feels like it gets watered down when I add black, although I have played much Esper in my time. Here's what I'm running currently.

2 TNN
2 Snapcaster Mage
4 SFM
1 Batterskull
1 Jitte
2 Sword of the Meek
3 Thopter Foundry
2 Jace
2 DTT
1 Enlightened Tutor
4 Brainstorm
1 Ponder
3 StP
1 Reality Shift
1 Council's Judgement
1 Supreme Verdict
3 Spell Pierce
2 Counterspell
1 Misdirection
4 FoW
5 Island
2 Plains
1 Karakas
3 Tundra
1 Academy Ruins
2 Marsh Flats
4 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta

It's a bit metagamed, but I also enjoy the changes I've made (Specifically the Reality Shift). Being able to pitch a removal spell has been pretty cool. I have MisD in here as a way to combat a Discard list I play against regularly, but otherwise, it's the way it would be if I went to an event tomorrow. I'll post the sideboard soon (it's in the process of getting tweaked), and I understand this isn't the same thing as what you are working on here, but it seems you may be more interested in it than the peeps over in the SFM thread are. I'm glad there's a thread for this, now. It'll be interesting to see if we can get this up into Established.

-ABC

Edit: sideboard as follows:

1 EE
1 Peedle
1 G's Cage
1 Disenchant
1 RIP
2 Containment Priest
1 C's Judgement
2 B2B
3 Clique
1 Elspeth
1 S. Verdict

[solidbass]

Hey guys, I've been working on a decklist after reading a Carsten Kotter article (Looking At Legacy At The Invitational on SCG.com), when I saw a Thopters list that was UW. I had been playing a UW Stoneblade deck with a couple Foundry and a SotMeek in the board with an Elspeth, which had been doing wonderful things for my Miracles and MUD matchups, so when I read the article and saw the list (Chris Anderson's build), I knew this was where I was headed. I had posted my deck in the Stoneblade thread, but this seems more appropriate. I'm not a fan of black in my build, it feels like it gets watered down when I add black, although I have played much Esper in my time. Here's what I'm running currently.

2 TNN
2 Snapcaster Mage
4 SFM
1 Batterskull
1 Jitte
2 Sword of the Meek
3 Thopter Foundry
2 Jace
2 DTT
1 Enlightened Tutor
4 Brainstorm
1 Ponder
3 StP
1 Reality Shift
1 Council's Judgement
1 Supreme Verdict
3 Spell Pierce
2 Counterspell
1 Misdirection
4 FoW
5 Island
2 Plains
1 Karakas
3 Tundra
1 Academy Ruins
2 Marsh Flats
4 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta

It's a bit metagamed, but I also enjoy the changes I've made (Specifically the Reality Shift). Being able to pitch a removal spell has been pretty cool. I have MisD in here as a way to combat a Discard list I play against regularly, but otherwise, it's the way it would be if I went to an event tomorrow. I'll post the sideboard soon (it's in the process of getting tweaked), and I understand this isn't the same thing as what you are working on here, but it seems you may be more interested in it than the peeps over in the SFM thread are. I'm glad there's a thread for this, now. It'll be interesting to see if we can get this up into Established.

-ABC

Edit: sideboard as follows:

1 EE
1 Peedle
1 G's Cage
1 Disenchant
1 RIP
2 Containment Priest
1 C's Judgement
2 B2B
3 Clique
1 Elspeth
1 S. Verdict

How did you do at the event?

I ran a very similar list for a short period of time but I threw away the idea after awhile because Stoneforge felt like a solid enough plan. However, with the addition of DTT, it deserves another look. The stoneforge thopters deck is able to apply pressure in multiple ways eg. Jace, Stoneforge/TNN equipment and now with Thopters.
With these threats the dynamics of the deck changes from control, like spell snare thoughtseize and baleful strix, (from Anderson's build) to spell pierce and stoneforge and Jace. This creates a more tapout/tempo route with the added benefit of thopters to provide a huge amount of inevitability. Also of note is DTT's role in each deck. Esper Thopters is looking for answers while stoneblade is looking for threats. While there are exceptions I think this a good rule of thumb.
Anyways, I think the tempo route for Thopters is viable but could have some clunky draws that could get punished by fast delver draws. However, the benefit is in the miracles matchup.

Black is used for the: Draw a card. Kill a creature for 2 as well as Thoughtseize to act as an answer and to fuel DTT.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

I didn't say that I played at the event. I in fact haven't taken this to any event as I'm still currently working on it and I want to feel content as well as well-prepared with it. I am doing too much changing and testing currently to get there any time soon. I must disagree with your assessment between this deck and stoneforge; I find that they are basically the same deck, just one plays a different set of threats. Also, I'm not sure, but it feels like you are saying that my list is tempo. If you are, I'm not sure where you are coming from. My other deck is bug Delver currently, which is extremely tempo-oriented, and this simply isn't the same in practice or theory. I understand what the black is for, I just don't like it over the options blue and white provide me with.

From my phone. I do my best, dammit!

[solidbass]

Sorry, I had misinterpreted what you meant about the event thing.

At it's heart Stoneforge is tempo and Stoneblade decks are tempo. With the addition of Thopters there is more inevitability but it still has many tempo elements.

Anyways, hopefully by next Tuesday I'll be going to a small (new!) legacy playgroup and get some solid results in. My decklist is basically Chris Anderson's but with more Ponder and less Thoughtscour.

[JosephK]

This deck is a very nice take on the dig through time problem. Thought scour allows to play a complete reactive game without top. The core of the deck seems to be :

4 Dig
4 Force
4 Bs
4 Thought scour
1-2 Mental note
2-3 Counterspell
2 Snapcaster mage

3 Thopter
2 Sword of the meek

which opens to UWR, UWB, UBR.

I think that the main problem while building the deck was "the terminus problem" : I want to play a reactive deck but I don't want to play Terminus (justifiably so - terminus -> top (-> less cantrips for dig) -> cb/entreat -> miracle ; on top on that, terminus + thopter would make us very weak vs combo). So I think that Baleful strix was the answer to this (which is indeed very nice to delay the game until Thopter is up). And Black was played. But Black doesn't bring a lot to a reactive deck : Thoughtseize and Tourach (sb) seem to be there only to have a chance vs Vial/Cavern/Boseiju decks, but don't really fit in the deck. A necessary evil ?
Then, White is maybe not the best choice as we loose reb. Discard + Hatebear is somewhat redundant. Strix + bolt is enough to deal with creatures, Deluge is quite the same as verdict. But UBR can't deal with enchantments (plague, Nosb). Is this the main reason why we play W over R ?

On a side note, I would advise a 1-of Thirst of knowledge in the Maindeck. It is also weird to play a threat which is sensitive to graveyard hate in the sb, even though it is there mainly for combo.

[solidbass]

This deck is a very nice take on the dig through time problem. Thought scour allows to play a complete reactive game without top. The core of the deck seems to be :

4 Dig
4 Force
4 Bs
4 Thought scour
1-2 Mental note
2-3 Counterspell
2 Snapcaster mage

3 Thopter
2 Sword of the meek

which opens to UWR, UWB, UBR.

I think that the main problem while building the deck was "the terminus problem" : I want to play a reactive deck but I don't want to play Terminus (justifiably so - terminus -> top (-> less cantrips for dig) -> cb/entreat -> miracle ; on top on that, terminus + thopter would make us very weak vs combo). So I think that Baleful strix was the answer to this (which is indeed very nice to delay the game until Thopter is up). And Black was played. But Black doesn't bring a lot to a reactive deck : Thoughtseize and Tourach (sb) seem to be there only to have a chance vs Vial/Cavern/Boseiju decks, but don't really fit in the deck. A necessary evil ?
Then, White is maybe not the best choice as we loose reb. Discard + Hatebear is somewhat redundant. Strix + bolt is enough to deal with creatures, Deluge is quite the same as verdict. But UBR can't deal with enchantments (plague, Nosb). Is this the main reason why we play W over R ?

On a side note, I would advise a 1-of Thirst of knowledge in the Maindeck. It is also weird to play a threat which is sensitive to graveyard hate in the sb, even though it is there mainly for combo.

I agree with you mostly on the core, however I still think Ponders for some number of Thought scours is better. Yeah, Though Scour fuels DTT but can lead to awkward draws and just isn't as good a card as Ponder.

Black brings Baleful Strix and Thoughseize. Baleful is incredible and Thoughseize is good for DTT. I'd say white is purely for the creature removal; StP and Supreme Verdict as well as great SB tools. Deluge can be better, but uncounterable is always nice.
Thirst is an interesting idea, not sure if we run enough artifacts though.

[hotlikedimes]

19 LANDS
2 Tundra
4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
2 Underground Sea
1 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Academy Ruins
2 Island
1 Swamp
1 Plains
1 Seat of the Synod

5 CREATURES
3 Baleful Strix
2 Snapcaster Mage

28 INSTANTS and SORC.
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Thought Scour
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Dig Through Time
3 Thoughtseize
2 Counterspell
1 Supreme Verdict
2 Mental Note

8 OTHER SPELLS
3 Thopter Foundry
2 Sword of the Meek
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Narset Transcendent
1 Jace the Mind Sculptor

This is my take on the deck. I'm ditching spell snare for 1 narset, and 1 jace. Also took out a karakas for a basic, and knocked down the number of duals to 4 total, and upped the basic count. I wanted to try Jace and Narset, Jace because I have one and he is the best walker in legacy. Narset I think is just good incremental value between brainstorms and top, and being able to rebound a dtt or note / scour is pretty cool. I haven't played narset in any testing yet, but hopefully I'll be able to get a good idea of how good / bad she is.

I think black is the way to go with this deck, red is fine, but the only card you really get access to is bolt, and thopters are amazing creature control and with flying you don't need the reach of bolt. Listening to Chris Andersen talk briefly in one of his deck techs on scg (vid is on youtube somewhere) he and gerry decided that thoughtsieze was way better than bolt, and I have to agree.

[hotlikedimes]

I got to play a handful of matches against death and taxes last night and got beaten handily. A lot of the games were close but it was hard to finish them off. We only played g1's so I didn't have any way to deal with his vials or lands from the main aside from countering vial. I think I'd look to play some amount of wastelands in the board.

An update to the list, I took out the creeping tar pit for another basic plains, being able to cast supreme verdict in the face of wastelands is huge. Also ctp doesn't seem to fit with the overall game plan in my opinion. It's a late game finisher and mana sink which is exactly what thopter foundry is.

Narset was awesome. I played her in 3 of the 6 games and she had an impact in all of them. Coming in with 7 loyalty is huge and with brainstorm and top its almost always a free draw, and the ability to rebound stp or dtt is awesome. She drew the ire of plenty of revokers which opened the door for thopter foundry to do its thing.

I'm pretty happy with where the deck is now, just need to build up the sideboard and play more matches to figure out the final pieces. I really want to throw a misdirection in there as its my favorite card in magic and I think it could be good in a number of scenarios.

[solidbass]

I played this deck for several months. My biggest issue was how long it took to assemble the thoptor sword combo. On average it took about 7 mins, goldfishing. Now in comparison to Miracles this is about 2 mins faster than lethal entreat but keep in mind it only takes one swing from the angels.

I've lost a substantial amount of rounds when I had the thopter combo in play because it took so long to stabilize and sometimes only gaining 3 or 4 life per turn is not enough.

Some other consequences of the 8 minute setup is Combo gets to crush you. TS and snap are great but when they're on a 10 turn clock with no soft lock, you're in big trouble.

[hotlikedimes]

I played this deck for several months. My biggest issue was how long it took to assemble the thoptor sword combo. On average it took about 7 mins, goldfishing. Now in comparison to Miracles this is about 2 mins faster than lethal entreat but keep in mind it only takes one swing from the angels.

I've lost a substantial amount of rounds when I had the thopter combo in play because it took so long to stabilize and sometimes only gaining 3 or 4 life per turn is not enough.

Some other consequences of the 8 minute setup is Combo gets to crush you. TS and snap are great but when they're on a 10 turn clock with no soft lock, you're in big trouble.

Yeah it plays super slow, but I think it plays enough removal and efficient value threats like strix that you can hide behind it until you assemble your board. Once top is in play and you can start playing around with your deck, mental note and thought scour are crazy good, and lets you dig to the combo.

I agree though that sometimes you're burdened by the fact that the combo is so slow and it's not game winning, but just decent incremental advantage. It's a lot better against creature decks where you can play out the thopter foundry early and make a couple nerds so you can gain back the life you lost early and have chump blockers, along with getting in some damage. And being able to create thopters at instant speed makes it pretty good against decay and artifact removal.

Playing thoughtseize helps against combo, but it's a pretty rough g1 matchup for sure.

[HSCK]

I have no idea what this talk about "7 minutes in game time" is about since it'll depend on match to match. Not sure why you'd time yourself goldfishing either. Two Esper decks did well last weekend so I have hope this shell will be powerful:

Thopter Sword

2 Baleful Strix
2 Snapcaster Mage
3 Stoneforge Mystic

1 Batterskull
1 Sword of the Meek
3 Thopter Foundry

3 Cabal Therapy/Thoughtseize

4 Force of Will
2 Counterspell

1 Engineered Explosives
1 Supreme Verdict
4 Swords to Plowshares

1 Enlightened Tutor
2 Dig Through Time
4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm

1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

1 Academy Ruins
1 Karakas
1 Swamp
2 Plains
2 Island
3 Tundra
3 Underground Sea
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta

Sideboard: 15
1 Pithing Needle
1 Disenchant
1 Zealous Persecution
1 Council's Judgment
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Flusterstorm
2 Meddling Mage
2 Monastery Mentor

[Finn]

Heya folks. I was just going through the motions of building this casually. I find that I want to use Transmute Artifact to find pieces, but I noticed that none of the lists include this card. I am wondering why. In particular, if you sacrifice Seat of the Synod or a Thopter to fetch Sword of the Meek, you do not have to pay :u::u::2:. You just pay the :u::u: and allow the sword to go to the graveyard.

Can I get one of you fellows to fill me in on this. Is the card disadvantage such a big factor in this deck because it is basically just a control deck?

[hotlikedimes]

Heya folks. I was just going through the motions of building this casually. I find that I want to use Transmute Artifact to find pieces, but I noticed that none of the lists include this card. I am wondering why. In particular, if you sacrifice Seat of the Synod or a Thopter to fetch Sword of the Meek, you do not have to pay :u::u::2:. You just pay the :u::u: and allow the sword to go to the graveyard.

Can I get one of you fellows to fill me in on this. Is the card disadvantage such a big factor in this deck because it is basically just a control deck?

The idea is that through mental note and thought scour you can bin the sword of the meek. This deck goes for a pretty long game, so there are plenty of opportunities to get it into the yard, and then you only need to spend the 1 mana to sac something and get it back into play, or play a baleful strix and get it back fo free! The transmute artifact plan is more on the tezzerator menu.

Also I find that if you can get one of the deck manipulators to stick (Jace / Top / Brainstorm) you can mill through your deck super super quickly and find the pieces you need. If you test the deck out you'll find that once you get the engine running it goes crazy fast.

Also if you do xmute artifact like that you're 3 for 1'ing yourself. It would be better to run enlightened tutor and then mental note / thought scour.


@HSCK do you think that 3 SFM is too many (since you only have 2 targets anyway)? I see in a lot of decks playing 2 where there are only a couple targets for it.

[hotlikedimes]

Going to attend a legacy FNM tonight with this deck list:

Lands:
4x Polluted Delta
4x Flooded Strand
2x Tundra
2x Usea
1x Academy Ruins
1x Seat of the Synod
1x Swamp
2x Island
2x Plains

Creatures:
3x Baleful Strix
2x Snapcaster Mage

Instant/Sorcery:
4x Force of Will
2x Counterspell
4x Swords to Plowshares
4x Brainstorm
4x Thought Scour
2x Mental Note
3x Thoughtseize
1x Supreme Verdict
2x Dig Through Time
2x Misdirection **(Flex Spot)**

Artifacts:
2x Sword of the Meek
3x Thopter Foundry
1x Sensei's Divining Top

Planeswalkers:
1x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1x Narset Transcendent

Sideboard:
1x Mindbreak Trap
1x Vendilion Clique
1x Enlightened Tutor
1x Dread of Night
1x Seal of Cleansing
1x Ethersworn Canonist
1x Tsabo's Web
2x Wasteland
1x Surgical Extraction
2x Pithing Needle
1x Nihil Spellbomb
1x Detention Sphere
1x Flusterstorm

So 2 things. First off, I have a very slight idea what the meta game is going to look like. I know 2 decks, Junk and DnT. I've got some hate in there for DnT, but I'm not really sure about sideboarding legacy yet so we'll see how it goes.

Secondly, I've got 2 flex spots that at the moment are misdirections. I was running a full 4 DTT, but I think that's overkill, and I found that in grindy games I had multiples stuck in my hand and at a late point in the game I'm able to filter through the deck pretty easily, so the card selection of DTT is fine, but not incredible, so I'm going to cut back on them and see what else I can do. Right now it's going to be misdirections as it handles Abrupt Decay from bug/jund/junk, and AV from shardless bug, pump spells from infect, and can be FoW 5 and 6. My other thought was to play 2 monastery mentor. The deck does so much durtling that I'm thinking it might be good to have a mid-game source of pressure. I think there are some good synergies going on with artifacts, being able to draw off top end of turn and replay it for the token + prowess trigger seems pretty good. We'll see, and if anybody cares I'll do a tournament report from tonight if I feel up to it :)

[LDX]

I may not be your target audience, but I would sure welcome a report on that list.

[hotlikedimes]

I may not be your target audience, but I would sure welcome a report on that list.

Games went fairly poorly. Some due to my fault some due to sketchy keep decisions and land screw. I'll do a rough overview on my sad 0-4 night.

Round 1: Jeskai Stoneblade

Game 1 went ok, had the answers to his SFM's, and was about to stabilize at 2 life but missed that he attacked with a young pyromancer to kill me. My mistake, move to G2. Sideboarding, I bring in seal of cleansing and pithing needle for the artifacts. He showed me Sword of fire and ice G1 which I basically scoop to, so need the pithing needle to combat that. Game 2 I keep a 1 land hand and get rekt by a t3 TNN that I don't have an answer to.

TIL: I need to run council's judgement as a 1 of no doubt! Also spell snare is growing on me as a card I should include. Keeping up 2 for counterspell is a bit hard and keeping 1 blue open for spellsnare to deal with jitte, sfm, counterspell, and a handful of other spells is really handy.

Round 2: Shardless BUG

Game 1 the value was insane. He started off with a shardless agent into AV which I had no answer to, and he was able to cruise to victory on the back of a big goyf and drs activations. Game 2 I kept another sketchy land hand (2 of 'em) and got wasteland -> surgical extraction #nofun. I had the stifle open, but my nerves froze on the wasteland activation and I was infinitely far behind and never recovered

Round 3: Jeskai Stoneblade

Game 1 I wasn't able to get much going on, never found a sword or thopter foundry. Always playing from behind removing SFM's and countering batterskull / sword of fire and ice / jitte. I lost to beats off snapcaster / sfm. But luckily I didn't show him any of my 'tech' aside from thought scour and top which my opponent was a bit confused about, and wasn't sure if it was some crazy miracles tech in the mirror to blow out counterbalance triggers. Game 2 I boarded in the same cards as round 1, and we proceeded to set a new tony hawk pro skater grind record. He was stuck on 2 lands for a while after I got him with a surgical on his flooded strand. I did my thing, basically goldfishing until I assembled the combo, and finally got there after about 30 minutes. Game 3 was the same as G2 of Round 1. Quick SFM (that got removed) was followed up by a TNN that I didn't have an answer to. I had a single out in thopter foundry where I probably could have raced a bit, but a desperation DTT left me with nothing going on.

Round 4: Death and Taxes

This is what I think is my worst matchup. Aether Vial and cavern of souls are super hard to deal with G1, and this game was no exception. Game 1 he had mirran crusader followed up with sword of fire and ice. I dug furiously for the swords to get me out, but no dice, and onto game 2 in a matter of minutes! Game 2 I bring in all my hate, and he starts with wasteland -> vial. I leave up the stifle for the wasteland on his t2, and of course he plays a second wasteland and wastes both of my lands, and woo I get to keep one. I don't really do much, try and dig to find stuff. He plays another wasteland and hits my last land. I make my land drop t4 and pass back. He draws his 4th wasteland and wastes my land. He draws gas the rest of the game, and I draw spells.


I was always playing reactively, which is fine for a control deck, but I need to dig to the combo pieces, or dig to answers, and brainstorm + sdt and thought scour / mental note is great to dig to items, but it takes a lot of mana to dig to the exact answer you need. There's no doubt that counterbalance + top are an infinitely more efficient answer book. I found that to find a swords that I don't have in hand, it was on average of 2 or 3 mana to find the answer you're looking for, and then you have to cast it. This manner has it's upside, as it fuels dig quite efficiently but it can be a very inefficient way to answer your opponents threats.

I think playing something that offers a bit of a midgame threat would be useful, just so your opponent has to fight what I'm doing rather than do their own thing and protect. I'm fully aware that the deck isn't t1 or t1.5, but I think either an early threat or maybe just enlightened tutors in the main would be great.

[LDX]

It seems you struggle with artifacts a lot.

This might sound crazy, but what about Enlightened Tutor in main (as I think I would play anyway) and... Gate to Phyrexia in sideboard? Even without the full combo, as soon as you have a few Thopters (or a Strix), you can get rid of the Swords and Jittes.

[hotlikedimes]

It seems you struggle with artifacts a lot.

This might sound crazy, but what about Enlightened Tutor in main (as I think I would play anyway) and... Gate to Phyrexia in sideboard? Even without the full combo, as soon as you have a few Thopters (or a Strix), you can get rid of the Swords and Jittes.

The deck can deal with the creatures, through StP and Supreme Verdict. But once SoFaI comes into play it's pretty tough to deal with and those are the only 2 answers. Spell snare helps stop SFM from getting any of them, and hopefully by the time the opponent feels like they can hard cast the sword / jitte / batterskull, I'll have answers or it'll be a naked sword. I don't think the way to deal with it is to dilute the mainboard and add meta calls to the 60, but I like the idea of the e-tutor in the main and that way I can speed up the combo a bit, either by putting SotM on top and then binning it, or thopter foundry and drawing it.

My major issue is that this deck is very fair 1 for 1's until thopter sword comes online, and it's a way more resource intensive combo than something like value.dec in stoneblade / shardless, so anything to speed up the process so I can put some pressure on the opponent is super necessary.

[TheArchitect]

Just chiming in because this is a cool archtype:

I think disenchant is way better than seal for you. Tutoring for a seal is a very lose-less type of play since they things your aiming it at often already got their advantage (top, library, bskull, vial, etc) AND now your going to 2 for 1 yourself. Gross! being able to snapcaster disenchant if very nice in a lot of matchups.

Another option, and something I did for a long time in miracles and esper stoneblade, is run 2-3 spell pierce in the 75. For a while when D&T, library, null rod, miracles and stoneblade decks were all very popular spell pierce being able to hit tops, rods, chalices, hardcast equips, sylvan libraries, liliana/jace, counterbalance, etc was very nice and I just ran pierce in the flusterstorm slot with little downside for the combo matchup.

I like your MD quiet a bit. I would not play misdirection and would probably play discard and another snap or DTT in their place. Also, I cringed when I saw narcet. Just place a 2nd Jace, hes pretty much always better.

[hotlikedimes]

Just chiming in because this is a cool archtype:

I think disenchant is way better than seal for you. Tutoring for a seal is a very lose-less type of play since they things your aiming it at often already got their advantage (top, library, bskull, vial, etc) AND now your going to 2 for 1 yourself. Gross! being able to snapcaster disenchant if very nice in a lot of matchups.

Another option, and something I did for a long time in miracles and esper stoneblade, is run 2-3 spell pierce in the 75. For a while when D&T, library, null rod, miracles and stoneblade decks were all very popular spell pierce being able to hit tops, rods, chalices, hardcast equips, sylvan libraries, liliana/jace, counterbalance, etc was very nice and I just ran pierce in the flusterstorm slot with little downside for the combo matchup.

I like your MD quiet a bit. I would not play misdirection and would probably play discard and another snap or DTT in their place. Also, I cringed when I saw narcet. Just place a 2nd Jace, hes pretty much always better.

I'm not quite sure why seal of cleansing was the pick (I copied most of the sideboard off the original christoffer andersen list from SCG Richmond) and I kinda like it, as I don't have to crack it immediately, and play around counterspells a bit easier, but I'm not sure what advantage it has aside from that. I think disenchant is definitely the card to play. Snapcaster disenchant is too good to not play. Spell pierce is an interesting option as well, I like it, and it is a fine catchall, especially when decks are cheating on lands quite a bit.

I'm actually really into narset as a spicy one of. Jace is fine, but is really easy to dispatch, it's usually out for a single brainstorm and eats damage, but with all the library manipulation Narset almost always is draw 1 and has 7 loyalty, which is generally enough to divert all my opponents damage for a turn, or it'll take them 2 turns to deal with her. Also being able to rebound StP on a clogged board, Thoughtseize, Thoughtscour / mental note, brainstorm, or dtt are all fine. Also helps close out the game if thopter foundry is online by ultimating. Everytime I've played her (which has been in 3 or 4 games) she's made an immediate impact, and while her power level isn't on par with jace, she certainly makes an impact to the board that makes people change their game play.

And the misdirection was an option, I ended up playing stifles which were unimpressive, and not really what I want to be doing. I'm going to spend some time thinking a bit about my configuration. I'm thinking about going in for either spell snare, or spell pierce, and up to 3 dtt.

[TheArchitect]

I glossed over the DTT numbers earlier and assumed you ran 3-4. If you are running 6 mental note effects, you can easily run 4 digs. Dig is also super good in your deck since you are almost always looking for specific cards. Dig is a way better card in this deck than it is in grixis control or any delver shell where its just for value basically.

[hotlikedimes]

I glossed over the DTT numbers earlier and assumed you ran 3-4. If you are running 6 mental note effects, you can easily run 4 digs. Dig is also super good in your deck since you are almost always looking for specific cards. Dig is a way better card in this deck than it is in grixis control or any delver shell where its just for value basically.

I was finding that I had some dtt's stuck in my hand, or I was binning them because I had one in hand to note effects. I definitely want 3, I think 4 might be too much. Also might go down to 4 or 5 mental note effects, but we'll see. I'll do some small changes and tweaks rather than making a lot of changes at once haha.

Also as an edit, Narset was a 1 of in the second place PW Control deck at the vintage event over eternal weekend, so I feel pretty good about the one of :)

[hotlikedimes]

With DTT being banned I'm struggling a bit to figure out where I want to take the deck. I could easily sub 4 ponders in for the 4 DTT and call it a day. Alternatively I've been thinking more and more about going for the git probe + cabal therapy route. It changes how I want to play the deck, it forces it to be a bit more aggressive with finding the thopter sword combo to get things going and keep cabal therapy's firing off. But between Thoughtsieze and therapy's I think there's a lot of good disruption going on. If I wanted to go for the probe / therapy combo I'm not sure what I'd cut, probably a thoughtscour effect? Thoughts?

[hotlikedimes]

Latest version of the deck:

Lands:
4x Polluted Delta
4x Flooded Strand
2x Tundra
2x Underground Sea
1x Academy Ruins
1x Seat of the Synod
1x Swamp
2x Island
2x Plains
1x Karakas

Creatures:
4x Baleful Strix
2x Snapcaster Mage
1x Vendillion Clique

Instant/Sorcery:
4x Force of Will
1x Counterspell
4x Swords to Plowshares
4x Brainstorm
3x Thirst for Knowledge
4x Thoughtseize
1x Supreme Verdict
2x Ponder
2x Spell Snare

Artifacts:
2x Sword of the Meek
3x Thopter Foundry
1x Sensei's Divining Top
1x Engineered Explosives

Planeswalkers:
1x Jace, the Mind Sculptor

Sideboard:
1x Notion Thief
1x Misdirection
1x Divert
1x Nihil Spellbomb
1x Disenchant
1x Seal of Cleansing
2x Blue Elemental Blast
1x Dread of Night
1x Engineered Explosives
1x Enlightened Tutor
1x Gurmag Angler
1x Surgical Extraction
1x Pithing Needle
1x Flusterstorm

[Ephemeron]

How's that list treating you? Have you ever wanted another win condition other than Thopter/Sword since Abrupt Decay is everywhere? I've brainstormed lists that are as simple as including Stoneforge Mystic or as crazy as Monastery Mentor + Mental Note/Thought Scour + Unearth for value with Snapcaster and Academy Ruins, but haven't gotten around to playing any actual games.

[hotlikedimes]

How's that list treating you? Have you ever wanted another win condition other than Thopter/Sword since Abrupt Decay is everywhere? I've brainstormed lists that are as simple as including Stoneforge Mystic or as crazy as Monastery Mentor + Mental Note/Thought Scour + Unearth for value with Snapcaster and Academy Ruins, but haven't gotten around to playing any actual games.

I like the list a lot. I played a 20 man event tonight that I'll do a brief write up for in a bit but want to touch on your comment first!

Abrupt decay at the right time is certainly a blow out, but in my meta there aren't a lot of abrupt decays being played in the main. Most come out of the board, and I have divert and misdirection for that exact reason.

For those times that decay is living in the main baleful strix can pick up a sword when it hits the battlefield, which is a pretty under utilized interaction, and snapcaster with a sword is often enough to win the game on the spot. The way I play the deck, I'm not looking to turbo out the combo, it's more control and have light pressure and then slam the combo with counterspells and other removal for whatever they can do while my shields are down. Jace is also super real and usually I have enough board presence to protect him.

For the decks like shardless, nic fit, jund, elves etc.. I just bring in gurmag angler, and rumbling with a 5/5 makes their removal pretty sad. Also edict effects are somewhat useless because there are so many cheap dudes that clog up the board.

I ran the thought scour / mental note package with dtt, and it was great then, but I think now thirst for knowledge is the place to be. It's really solid, usually being a draw 3 discard 1, so you net 1 card which is pretty solid and you often get to bin sword of the meek which is super relevant, and I think having the selection is worth the mana cost.

[hotlikedimes]

Event: Tuesday night legacy at GamingETC in Acton Mass. 18 players (Woo!!!)

Game 1: Storm.

Match 1: Went off with past in flames. Didn’t know what opponent was on until too late and then the game was over.
Match 2: xantid swarm kept me off counter magic while he went off. I boarded out my swords forgetting that was a card to come in. Had e-tutor for nihil spell bomb, but he went for the ad nauseum route and tendrils’d me without touching his gy

0-1 (0-2)

Game 2: bant hate blade:
Match 1: opponent was screwed off green mana. Got a jitte and batter skull into play but I assembled the combo and was able to overvalue him. Went from opponent at 30 and me at 5.
Match 2: lots of back and forth, sfm and some hate bears from him (pridemage), and countermagic + artifact removal on my end. Was able to fight through a batter skull and equipped a snap caster with a sotm for the win.

1-1 (2-2)

Game 3: infect
Match 1: t1 thought seize saved my bacon. Took a pump spell and had swords for blink moths. Won on the back of the combo while disrupting and countering my opponents pump spells
Match 2: swords, thoughtsieze and unlucky draws by my opponent won me this game. I was able to land a jace on t5 and rode the card advantage train to the end, finishing on a thought seize + surgical extraction for the last cards in their hand, ultimate jace, and passed the turn.

2-1 (4-2)

Game 4: Storm
Match 1: pretty much same story as my game 1 match 1. Tried to find some answers to his spells, instead of finding counter magic, found swords. Swords doesn’t stop storm.
Match 2: my limited sideboard hate really bit me in the ass. If I had an ethersworn canonist I think i would have been fine. had the e-tutor but could only fetch for a nihil spell bomb and hope to dig for a fluster storm or fow before my opponent tried to go off. Opponent rudely ignored my spell bomb and went of with ad nauseum and tendrils’d me for a trillion.

Final Result: 2-2 (4-4)
I dropped the last round, finished 9th.


Positives:
I'm really happy with a lot of my matchups, stoneforge decks / decks with batterskull as a wincon are great, I can out value them even if they stick a t3 batterskull. Creature based decks are really good matchups, I have lots of answers in the main and in the board, and against infect I never felt like I was going to die.

Negatives:
Spell based combo decks are a bit harder to deal with, as seen by my play. My sideboard has nihil spellbomb for dredge and past in flames storm, surgical (which is tough cause I think you need to hit the tutor when it hits the yard, and hope they grabbed past in flames or if they got ad nauseum that they brick on a tutor) and flusterstorm. I definitely think that I want more hate, ethersworn cannonist is #1 as it's tutorable so that'll be going in. Not sure if I want more pieces or not, so ideas would be great!

[hotlikedimes]

1/26 Tuesday Night Legacy Report

Updates to decklist:
Sideboard:
+1 Mindbreak Trap
+1 Ethersworn Canonist
out
-1 Notion Thief
-1 Dread of Night

added a mindbreak trap and ethersworn canonist to up my storm matchup as that was my weak spot last round, and expecting the same people, or same amount of storm i came prepared!

Round 1: Grixis Tezzerator

Game 1:
Rough hand to start, keep a swords and some counter magic and a snap caster mage. Not a whole lot of action, as my opponent and i were feeling each other out. Opponent plays a dack fadein and i’m real bummed i took out my notion thief, but that’s ok. He eventually assembles the thopter + sword combo before me and takes the game easily. I was able to conceal most of what i was playing from him outside of colors.

Game 2:
I have a much better start, i have some good counter magic in my hand and play a t4 gurmag angler with enough counter magic backup to get me there. I thougthsieze away his hand. He’s playing ancient tomb and had taken a decent amount of damage from it, so gurmey was a pretty quick kill.

No sb changes g2/g3.
Game 3:
Mulligan my first hand to one with more countermagic. Opponent gets some early sol lands and tries to get a tezzeret to stick, but i have counter spell. I land a gurmag angler with spell snare and blue elemental blast (opponent was playing *make artifact* card) for the deck fayden and other artifact hate in the board. Stick angler and ride him out to victory with my counter magic.

1-0 (2-1)

Round 2: Shardless BUG

Game 1:
Mull to 4. Opponent goes DRS, i have karakas + swords, opponents t2, hymn, i discard fow and ponder, leaving me with an uncastable brainstorm. Cry for the next 4 turns until a massive goyf puts me out of my misery.

Game 2: Mulligan to an acceptable 6, still not really sure what my game plan is but get some decent value cards. Opponent is off to a fast start with t1 drs. follows up with a t2 liliana that I counter, but it’s all down hill from there. big goyf comes down and i can answer it with thopter tokens for a little while and eventually I just die to the value.

1-1 (2-3)

Round 3: Storm!

Game 1: Woo against storm! Hoping that my sideboard improvements can get me there as e-tutor for nihil spell bomb is not going to win me the match. G1 is a disaster, opponent goes off t2 or t3 and i’m not able to get much going. Onto game 2!

Sideboard
In: Mindbreak trap, cannonist, flusterstorm, nihil spellbomb, etutor, disenchant
Out: StP, Top, and something else that's slow and dumb.

Game 2:
See an etutor and thoughtsieze in my opening hand with mana to cast them, snap keep. Start with the thoughtsieze, take a duress (feels weird, but best option), t1 opponent g-probes and ponders, t2 i play land and pass leaving up counter spell or etutor. End of opponents turn i cast tutor, grab canonist, and play it with some backup. I didn’t see a bayou so I didn’t bring in misdirection / divert for any potential abrupt decay shenanigans, but opponent scoops.

Game 3:
Canonist is in my 7, so we are snap keeping! Opponent goes land pass, i play a land and though seize, opponent brainstorms to hide some cards. I take a duress, and pass. Opponent g-probes and then ponders trying to get action. I play canonist and pass with fow backup. opponent cantrips and passes. I top deck a vclique, pass turn. clique after opponents draw and he doesn’t really have much, no hate for canonist so things look good. I top a karakas and am able to pull some karakas vclique shenanigans for a while until i land a jace and fate seal for good measure and then swing for the win!

2-1 (4-4)

Round 4: Shardless … again…
Game 1:
Rough beats, opponent has 3 abrupt decays in his opener and it’s a slow clock to dead town. I’m not able to get anything going and die to the value train.

Game 2: Much like my previous match up against shard less, the value train proves to be too much. I get a sick (hardcasted) misdirection off blowing away his goyf to protect my thopter foundry but a krosan grip, another goyf, and a drs is too much for me to beat.

2-2 (4-6)

Storm matchup is super good, midrange creature matchup is hard. I've found also in my playing that Punishing jund is a really hard matchup. Lands is surprisingly ok, I can deal with the grind and make more thopters than they have punishing fires. But jund, and shardless are real rough beats.

I'm also not very sold on ponder in the main. It's an ok card, but i don't want to spend my turn cantripping to find answers to things I don't know are coming. It's best on t1, but I'd rather play thoughtseize, hold up StP, or wait for an end of turn or in response brainstorm. Ideas on what else to play in that slot would be welcome!

[Diogo37]

no one has been testing anything?