Old powerhouse cards that were pushed out by NKOTB?

[Teluin]

Hey guys,

am looking for older cards (in the old frame) that were good before being replaced or pushed out by newer cards.

Thanks.

[AngryTroll]

Tons and tons of cards. Off of the top of my head, cards that saw competitive play in Legacy when I started playing included:
Werebear
Mystic Enforcer
Fledgling Dragon
Psychatog
Troll Ascetic
Flametongue Kavu
Exalted Angel
Wild Mongrel (barely).

I miss those days!

[EviL668-2]

take a Look! Click (http://magiccards.info/al/en/108.html)

[Warr]

http://www.wizards.com/magic/images/cardart/DK/Squire_640.jpg

[Bosque]

So many. Are you just talking about in legacy, or just in general?

Icy Manipulator
Armageddon
Stasis
Opposition
Serra Angel
Mystic Snake
Winter Orb

[ESG]

New Kids on the Block are in Magic now?

What in the world is NKOTB?

[Bed Decks Palyer]

Werebear
Mystic Enforcer
Exalted Angel


I miss those days!
So much memories... *heartsick* :frown:

Do you remember when Thawing Glaciers was USD 20 card? Speaking in context of USD 200 Lotus. I doubt that it's about new prints, but yeah, Glaciers look so bad when compared to the ONS/ZEN fetchlands.

[H]

There were times where the best creatures you could get with Oath of Druids were:

Akroma, Angel of Wrath
Spirit of the Night

[iamajellydonut]

There were times where the best creatures you could get with Oath of Druids were:

Akroma, Angel of Wrath
Spirit of the Night

Which is why Oath was as bad as Goblins (speaking of things that have gone down the drain) is now. This was also the time when Show and Tell was a bulk rare. Thank you mythic rarity. :rolleyes:

[Megadeus]

For Storm it's Ill Gotten Gains with having Ad Nauseam and PiF these days

[AngryTroll]

It wasn't all that long ago that reanimator decks ran a mix of reanimation targets, including
Inkwell Leviathan
Sphinx of the Steel Wind
Iona, Shield of Emeria

Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur and then Griselbrand pushed out all of those neat reanimation targets.

Natural Order was a real card a long time ago, and then briefly in the Mental Misstep NO RUG days.

[iamajellydonut]

Natural Order was a real card a long time ago, and then briefly in the Mental Misstep NO RUG days.

Depending on the definition of "a long time ago", I feel like this isn't the truth. ApathyHouse may generally be a piece of crap, but they do retain information for a long ass time.

http://i.imgur.com/0ZharGS.png

[thecrav]

Natural Order was a real card a long time ago, and then briefly in the Mental Misstep NO RUG days.

Natural Order hasn't stopped being a real card, it's just stopped being played in non-Elves decks.

[AngryTroll]

Depending on the definition of "a long time ago", I feel like this isn't the truth. ApathyHouse may generally be a piece of crap, but they do retain information for a long ass time.

http://i.imgur.com/0ZharGS.png

No, no, I mean a long time ago! I fondly remember Jamie Wakefield reports where he'd Natural Order up a Verdant Force. Here's an article from 1999 that mentions "Secret Force" (http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/fundamentals/7871_The_Wakefield_School.html).


Natural Order hasn't stopped being a real card, it's just stopped being played in non-Elves decks.
This is completely true; I was busy being nostalgic for Verdant Forces and forgot that Natural Order is also a haste-granting super-Overrun. I miss when Natural Order generated an overwhelming advantage but took a few turns to win!

[iamajellydonut]

No, no, I mean a long time ago! I fondly remember Jamie Wakefield reports where he'd Natural Order up a Verdant Force. Here's an article from 1999 that mentions "Secret Force" (http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/fundamentals/7871_The_Wakefield_School.html).

That's Type 2. If we were talking about Type 2, we'd have a list of approximately 10000 cards.

[Teluin]

Thanks guys, keep 'em coming. Just remember - only want cards that can be found in old frame. Oh and Legacy, Extended and Vintage mostly but exceptions can be made.

For some examples, my first thoughts went to:
Werebear
Dr Teeth
Portent

[death]

Ancestor's Chosen (Judgment) and Sadistic Hypnotist as Dread Return targets in Dredge.

[Seraphix]

RIP Terravore (http://magiccards.info/od/en/278.html) :frown:

Love that guy!

[clavio]

So many. Wrath of God, Diabolic Edict, Deed, Vindicate, Sinkhole, Jackal Pup, Portent, Decree of Justice, Accumulated Knowledge, Infest, Abeyance, Mana Leak, Disc, Quirion Dryad, Savannah Lions, Morphling

[(nameless one)]

No, no, I mean a long time ago! I fondly remember Jamie Wakefield reports where he'd Natural Order up a Verdant Force. Here's an article from 1999 that mentions "Secret Force" (http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/fundamentals/7871_The_Wakefield_School.html).

Yes. I remember this deck. You go turn one Llanowar Elves to another cheap elf. Then they go "another crappy attempt to make an Elfball deck". Then you NO, Verdant Force. It was glorious.


So many. Wrath of God, Diabolic Edict, Deed, Vindicate, Sinkhole, Jackal Pup, Portent, Decree of Justice, Accumulated Knowledge, Infest, Abeyance, Mana Leak, Disc, Quirion Dryad, Savannah Lions, Morphling

Intuition to AK was always a sweet sweet play.

I remember EOT Cycle Decree, swing FTW. Good times

Remember the menace that was Smokestacks and Tangle Wire? I also miss Goblin Welder. That card used to be so good.

Also, I wish they would print more utility Rebels.

[apple713]

Hey guys,

am looking for older cards (in the old frame) that were good before being replaced or pushed out by newer cards.

Thanks.

the best place to look is pull of the lists of all the world championship decks here (http://mtgsalvation.gamepedia.com/World_Championship_Decks?cookieSetup=true)

[Teluin]

the best place to look is pull of the lists of all the world championship decks here (http://mtgsalvation.gamepedia.com/World_Championship_Decks?cookieSetup=true)

Thank you. I've been writing these articles for a few months, but hadn't gone through WC decks - been mostly mtgtop8 and old posts on here/in general. Going to check 'em out.

[Meekrab]

So much memories... *heartsick* :frown:

Do you remember when Thawing Glaciers was USD 20 card? Speaking in context of USD 200 Lotus. I doubt that it's about new prints, but yeah, Glaciers look so bad when compared to the ONS/ZEN fetchlands.
From a Legacy worldview, yes TG is a horrible card. But in actual usage, Glaciers was more akin to an unstoppable Land Tax than a fetch land. It was there so you could reliably Browse into Wrath of God to kill your opponent's annoying protection from white Knights in a deck with only 16 mana-producing lands.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

From a Legacy worldview, yes TG is a horrible card. But in actual usage, Glaciers was more akin to an unstoppable Land Tax than a fetch land. It was there so you could reliably Browse into Wrath of God to kill your opponent's annoying protection from white Knights in a deck with only 16 mana-producing lands.

Yeah, that's what I meant: it's so bad card when compared to fetchlands, but that's just because the comparison to fetches is so obvious, not that it's really true.

[Nuke is Good]

Cards that come to mind, not legacy exclusive:

Dr. Teeth
Werebear
Smokestack sorta
Stasis
Winter Orb
Howling Mine
Force of Nature
Avatar of Woe

[B4L4]

Not mentionned yet :
Fact or Fiction
Hypnotic Specter
Spiritmonger
Mogg Fanatic
Sea Drake
Nevinyrral's Disk
Brain Freeze
Opt
Treetop Village
Phyrexian Furnace

[bruizar]

Thunder Spirit, Killer Bees, Juzam Djinn, Ernham Djinn

[Bed Decks Palyer]

Thunder Spirit, Killer Bees, Juzam Djinn, Ernham Djinn
Frenetic Efreet, River Boa, Ophidian, Maro

[Amon Amarth]

Stompy cards i.e. Rogue Elephant, Land Grant and friends. Such a sweet simple deck.

EDIT: Is LG still used in Belcher?

[Lemnear]

Stompy cards i.e. Rogue Elephant, Land Grant and friends. Such a sweet simple deck.

EDIT: Is LG still used in Belcher?

Jep

[ubernostrum]

I won States '97 with a control deck whose win condition was Rainbow Efreet.

Then Morphling was printed.

[Mystical_Jackass]

Rainbow Efreet, nice. Yeah you could block and phase out.

It's amazing how much the M10 damage on the stack affected a lot of things too. Mogg Fanatic is a classic example, used to be so good, and I'm not even talking about Goblins, I remember I had a B/R Grave Pact, Fanatic, Nantuko Husk, Mogg War Marshal, etc. sligh deck that was all about abusing damage on the stack. I remember long, long ago a friend had this Prodigal Sorcerer 'Tim' deck, being able to block and shoot was a big deal.

[Megadeus]

To be fair, you can still block then tap and shoot before combat damage resolves

[iamajellydonut]

To be fair, you can still block then tap and shoot before combat damage resolves

I think he derailed into pure nostalgia and is referring to pre-Sixth.

[TsumiBand]

Spiritmonger is *still* over the curve and yet just cannot see play because it costs 5 and isn't a good target for S&T.

What I think I miss more than a particular creature though is the old UR Fish lists being "a real thing". That kind of Fish was never super good in Legacy just because there are so many more aggro-control decks - it's easy to outclass the deck in an aggro/aggro-controlly field, but Fish/r was better in Vintage when the only creatures in the format tended towards Morphling/Welder/whatever Oath pooped onto the table.

Death and Taxes is sort of that kind of "Fish deck" nowadays; it's a series of mostly non-broken creatures that make life difficult for the opponent via resource management. For example, one of my favorite iterations of the deck was when it maindecked Spiketail Hatchling, Voidmage Prodigy and Grim Lavamancer. Separately, those cards are not typically very good (okay Lavamancer is good, the other two not-so-much) but in a group you had multiple weird ways of controlling tempo. Spiketail Hatchling was enough to force a fork in the opponent's plays, Lavamancer could burn down any dumb x/2 that you decided was okay to resolve (if you didn't just Force it or Daze it or whatever) and Voidmage Prodigy was great because it was a Counterspell that could beat for 2 -- but it could also sacrifice a Grim Lavamancer if need be to hard-counter something, and it was really easy for people to just forget that you could do that, so either because people are stupid or (in)correctly evaluated the threats to be underwhelming as individual units, in concert they gave you so much reach.

Nowadays you just can't really get away with running middling creatures in spite of their awesome synergy unless it's already tribal or, again, it's D&T and you have the Karakas/Ports/Wastes to drive the whole thing home. Even mana dorks have to be mini-planeswalkers to be worth the include (DRS you jerk).

[Bobmans]

Spiritmonger is *still* over the curve and yet just cannot see play because it costs 5 and isn't a good target for S&T.

Sometimes i wonder why the card isn't played in Nic Fit.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

Sometimes i wonder why the card isn't played in Nic Fit.

Coz it does nothing compared to Titans. Its only plus is the lesser cost, but then you're in Thragtusk's territory.
Genrally speaking, dumb beaters are either goyfs or obsoleted.

[iamajellydonut]

Coz it does nothing compared to Titans.

Or the dozens of other 5cmc 6/6s or 7/7s. Spiritmonger is only "above the curve" if you consider the industry standard to be six mana for a vanilla 6/6.

[TsumiBand]

Or the dozens of other 5cmc 6/6s or 7/7s. Spiritmonger is only "above the curve" if you consider the industry standard to be six mana for a vanilla 6/6.

Uh, a quick-enough Gatherer search pretty much shows that every other 6/6 in the game for less than 6 mana that doesn't have, like, quadruple-color or higher casting requirements has a drawback built-in, so yeah, Spiritmonger is still most assuredly better on its own than damn near every other 6/6 for X > 6 in the game. The next one that doesn't punch itself in the breakfast is Surrak (the RUG one) and Underworld Cerebus at :3::r::b:, both of which would not even trade with Spiritmonger in combat because Monger fucking regenerates.

Also it is like card 30 or so in a list of 155 sorted by CMC, so yeah it is 'over the curve' in that the majority of its similarly costed bretheren have drawbacks or are in 3+colors (or is like :rg::rg::rg::rg::rg:, blah) and vanilla or not has nothing to do with anything.

[iamajellydonut]

because Monger fucking regenerates.

Which sure is relevant when there's not a single non-fringe kill spell in Legacy that allows Spiritmonger's regeneration to be relevant. Exiled, bottomed, sac'd, neg'd, even bounced. But not destroyed. Not unless you really expect someone to use double-bolt on Spiritmonger or if you count the cornercases of Supreme Verdict or spending Tabernacle mana on regeneration.

Also, there is more than just Surrak (though, you have to admit, he does kick the living shit out of Spiritmonger's value). Unless you plan on using a City of Traitors to pay for Spiritmonger, I don't see how :bg::bg::bg::bg::bg: is any more prohibitive than :3::b::g:. Or how :b::g: is inherently more viable than some of the other variants that serve to justify a large body-to-cost. Batterskull, in particular, would like to say "hi" when it comes to being above the curve, and would like to thank Spiritmonger for its service in the evolutionary chain.

[Watcher487]

Here, let me put some fear from the old school days on this list.

Phyrexian Ghoul
Academy Rector
Peace of Mind
Enduring Renewal
Tradewind Rider
Lava Dart

[Amon Amarth]

Spiritmonger is *still* over the curve and yet just cannot see play because it costs 5 and isn't a good target for S&T.

What I think I miss more than a particular creature though is the old UR Fish lists being "a real thing". That kind of Fish was never super good in Legacy just because there are so many more aggro-control decks - it's easy to outclass the deck in an aggro/aggro-controlly field, but Fish/r was better in Vintage when the only creatures in the format tended towards Morphling/Welder/whatever Oath pooped onto the table.

Death and Taxes is sort of that kind of "Fish deck" nowadays; it's a series of mostly non-broken creatures that make life difficult for the opponent via resource management. For example, one of my favorite iterations of the deck was when it maindecked Spiketail Hatchling, Voidmage Prodigy and Grim Lavamancer. Separately, those cards are not typically very good (okay Lavamancer is good, the other two not-so-much) but in a group you had multiple weird ways of controlling tempo. Spiketail Hatchling was enough to force a fork in the opponent's plays, Lavamancer could burn down any dumb x/2 that you decided was okay to resolve (if you didn't just Force it or Daze it or whatever) and Voidmage Prodigy was great because it was a Counterspell that could beat for 2 -- but it could also sacrifice a Grim Lavamancer if need be to hard-counter something, and it was really easy for people to just forget that you could do that, so either because people are stupid or (in)correctly evaluated the threats to be underwhelming as individual units, in concert they gave you so much reach.

Nowadays you just can't really get away with running middling creatures in spite of their awesome synergy unless it's already tribal or, again, it's D&T and you have the Karakas/Ports/Wastes to drive the whole thing home. Even mana dorks have to be mini-planeswalkers to be worth the include (DRS you jerk).

I think there are a couple reason's why Spiritmonger isn't played whilst still being good.

1. Being able to change colors to avoid Dark Banishing or color hosers just isn't important anymore
2. Removal is so much better now that regeneration isn't as relevant.
3. Creatures are much better now even though Spiritmonger is pretty close to being the best value you can get out of a 5 mana creature. Titans at 6 or Delver at 1, TNN at 3... power creep hurts here.
4. There isn't a format for the guy to really get played in. If he was Modern legal with Pernicious Deed, well, I'd have to go get me some Overgrown Tombs.

I also miss U/r Fish. That deck was super fun and, to me, it's the perennial aggro/control deck.

[ubernostrum]

Here, let me put some fear from the old school days on this list.

Phyrexian Ghoul
Academy Rector
Peace of Mind
Enduring Renewal
Tradewind Rider
Lava Dart

Continuing with the theme of my prior post, I top 8'd States '98 with Suicide Black in a sea of Academy combo decks.

I'm not naturally an aggro player. But I do miss Carnophage into Ritual-Ritual-Hatred.

[phonics]

I think there are a couple reason's why Spiritmonger isn't played whilst still being good.

1. Being able to change colors to avoid Dark Banishing or color hosers just isn't important anymore
2. Removal is so much better now that regeneration isn't as relevant.
3. Creatures are much better now even though Spiritmonger is pretty close to being the best value you can get out of a 5 mana creature. Titans at 6 or Delver at 1, TNN at 3... power creep hurts here.
4. There isn't a format for the guy to really get played in. If he was Modern legal with Pernicious Deed, well, I'd have to go get me some Overgrown Tombs.

I also miss U/r Fish. That deck was super fun and, to me, it's the perennial aggro/control deck.
Powercreep has made it so that outside of standard, casting a 5+ mana card must put you in a game winning position, otherwise there will be a cheaper alternative that does a good enough job.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

Continuing with the theme of my prior post, I top 8'd States '98 with Suicide Black in a sea of Academy combo decks.

I'm not naturally an aggro player. But I do miss Carnophage into Ritual-Ritual-Hatred.
:cool::smile:
Man, I so much hope that you've top8 the '99 States too. And no, I'm not even kidding neither trolling!

[ubernostrum]

:cool::smile:
Man, I so much hope that you've top8 the '99 States too. And no, I'm not even kidding neither trolling!

Urza into Masques kind of turned me off competitive Magic for a while. My PWP history shows I went 3-2 drop at a PTQ in the summer of '99, then split in the finals of a side draft, then no points earned for 11 years.

I did finally notch my first PTQ match win of this millennium back in June. Went 6-2 for 18th place at a Legacy Open a couple years ago. But it appears my career as a competitive player peaked in the late 90s, so I'll have to settle for the +EV of mostly judging and occasionally breaking out the Legacy deck :)

[warfordium]

I remember when two premiere creatures (at least in WBR board control which i used to play) were Wildfire Emissary and Order of the Ebon Hand (Ron Spencer version OBVIOUSLY. #bolt #thunderbolt #stp

People used to sideboard Suleiman's Legacy for pete's sakes!

OH, and ITS RFG DAMNIT!!!