Chain of Smog - going Junk

[Paranoid__Android]

I've accidentally saw this card when looking random Onslaught cards, and thought about building a deck around it. In colors that I play of course. White, black and green. :smile:
Some cards that I thought about were Wilt-Leaf Liege, Loxodon Smiter and Obstinate Baloth.

Manabase could be a classic one. Few duals, 6-8 fetchland, few basics. 8-10 discard spells (including Chain of Smog), Decays, PDeeds, Sylvan Library, etc...

What do you think guys?

[iamajellydonut]

What do you think guys?

There isn't a single point in time when your opponent wouldn't just treat it like a crappy Hymn to Tourach and choose to not copy.

[lost_ronin_soul]

You can play Dodecapod. Giving you 4 creatures with that effect. If you splash blue you can run shardless agent/violent outburst to try to find it. Captured Sunlight can cascade but you may hit loxodon smiter (which is not terrible). I think the deck would be fun but casual

[jhhdk]

I think its unlikely that enemy will fall into that trap. I'd look at Vengevine, Filth, Bloodghast, Basking rootwalla

[Paranoid__Android]

There isn't a single point in time when your opponent wouldn't just treat it like a crappy Hymn to Tourach and choose to not copy.

I know that, but when I was testing Chain of Smog in about 10 games on Cockatrice, every opponent did copy it and then the party started. Goblins, Delvers, and few tier 1.5 decks, were all beaten 2:0. I know that it can't beat decks like S&Tell, CBalance, and so, but if the CoS copying doesn't work, deck becomes a tipical Junk. Deathrite Shamans, Thoughtseizes, Abrupt Decays, planeswalkers and so on. But, reason I started testing this deck is because of Wilt-Leaf Liege. Card is so good! :D

[lost_ronin_soul]

I know that, but when I was testing Chain of Smog in about 10 games on Cockatrice, every opponent did copy it and then the party started. Goblins, Delvers, and few tier 1.5 decks, were all beaten 2:0. I know that it can't beat decks like S&Tell, CBalance, and so, but if the CoS copying doesn't work, deck becomes a tipical Junk. Deathrite Shamans, Thoughtseizes, Abrupt Decays, planeswalkers and so on. But, reason I started testing this deck is because of Wilt-Leaf Liege. Card is so good! :D

I think a nic fit shell is its best fit. I made a quick list that looks playable

// Deck: Unnamed (60)

// Lands
3 Bayou
5 Forest
1 Scrubland
6 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath

// Creatures
4 Veteran Explorer
4 Dodecapod
4 Obstinate Baloth
4 Wilt-Leaf Liege
1 Thragtusk

// Instants
4 Abrupt Decay

// Sorceries
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Chain of Smog

// Enchantments
4 Pernicious Deed

// Sideboard
SB: 4 Thoughtseize
SB: 1 Gaddock Teeg
SB: 1 Oblivion Ring
SB: 3 Engineered Plague
SB: 2 Liliana of the Veil
SB: 1 Thragtusk
SB: 1 Grave Titan
SB: 2 Massacre Wurm

[lost_ronin_soul]

my list was a throw together list... including the sideboard. Instead of oblivion ring, the card should be ashen rider to help beat show and tell

[FoolofaTook]

Chain of Smog is a cool casual idea. The problem is that it gives your opponent choices, what to discard and whether to copy. Any time you give your opponent choices you are sorting the opposition into two categories: good players and bad players. The good players will do the right thing with the choices you give them most of the time and so you haven't gained much advantage. The bad players you're going to beat anyway.

[Mystical_Jackass]

Bad card, but cool.

Play with Geth's Grimoire. Troll them into thinking they're negating your CA, then drop your Wilt Leaf or Guerilla Tactics in their face.

[Fatal]

I don't see how you force opponent to copy chain of smog, it will be just poor Nic Fit with poor Hymn of Tourach.

[Mystical_Jackass]

It makes more sense in something like a B/R megrim style, you can turn it from a crappy Mind Rot into something potentially game-breaking with Geth's Grimoire.

B/R

Fetchlands
Badlands
Swamps
Mountain

4 Geth's Grimoire

4 Dark Ritual
2 Burning Inquiry
4 Duress
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Chain of Smog
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Blightning
4 Guerilla Tactics
4 Bloodghast
3 Tombstalker
2 Fireblast

[FoolofaTook]

You could also use Chain of Smog in an offbeat dredge style list where you were ambushing the opponent with dredge on turn 2 or 3. Turn 1 play Sensei's Diving Top and then turn 2 play Chain of Smog targeting yourself. Chain of Smog would have double utility in that type of list because oops, the opponent looks like they're playing Storm so instead of targeting yourself with Chain of Smog you target them.

[iamajellydonut]

sorting the opposition into two categories: good players and bad players.

Not just "bad" players. Legitimately fucking awful players. Considering the amount of 2cc discard spells there are, there's absolutely no chance of disguising your intent. Even if they don't know specifically that it'll be a Guerrilla Tactics effect, they should at least question the motive and know that no good will come from copying the spell.

It's not like Chain of Vapor where it's a unique effect with a drawback that can be mitigated and therefore justified. It's a shitty Hymn to Tourach and easily the worst of a dozen or so variants. If your opponent doesn't see through your cunning ploy, they shouldn't even qualify as players at that point. They're basically cardboard cut-outs that are posed across the table.

[Mystical_Jackass]

If your opponent doesn't see through your cunning ploy, they shouldn't even qualify as players at that point. They're basically cardboard cut-outs that are posed across the table.

LOL. Okay that is kind of funny.

I just pictured someone playtesting the deck, like:

"All right, turn 2 I'll cast Chain of Smog. They'll most likely copy it back, I'll then go ahead and drop my Baloth & Wilt Leaf and say 'go', ....Turn 5 I'll swing for the win. Another turn 5 kill, not bad at all!" :laugh:

[lost_ronin_soul]

Its a fun casual deck, I can't make it work past a tier 1.5 deck, nic fit is a better deck strait up but this deck does have unique effects. For example a fetchland +veteran + cabal therapy + smog +3 cards allows you to hit at minimum their best card two of their worst cards (worst mode)and the possibility of hitting another 2 cards with potential free creatures on turn 2 with an ending land base of bayou, forest swamp (double green, double black). To be fair, this is what nic fit does. Also note the lands fetched in that specific event wouldn't allow hymn to be cast. This is why I tried making a functional list with this shell. Chain of smog isn't a broken card, but its not entirely unplayable. It's on a similar power level of brow beat. You will NEVER see this card in a top 16 list in star city games, or any time soon depending on card printings. But a deck with chain of smog built like this does have a decent enough potential to beat even tier one decks on a good day. It still is often is card advantage (either 2 for 1, 4 for 3, occasional free creatures, ect).

[Kanti]

LOL. Okay that is kind of funny.

I just pictured someone playtesting the deck, like:

"All right, turn 2 I'll cast Chain of Smog. They'll most likely copy it back, I'll then go ahead and drop my Baloth & Wilt Leaf and say 'go', ....Turn 5 I'll swing for the win. Another turn 5 kill, not bad at all!" :laugh:


Ahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahhahaa. I spit out my soda.

[MaximumC]

Not just "bad" players. Legitimately fucking awful players. Considering the amount of 2cc discard spells there are, there's absolutely no chance of disguising your intent. Even if they don't know specifically that it'll be a Guerrilla Tactics effect, they should at least question the motive and know that no good will come from copying the spell.

It's not like Chain of Vapor where it's a unique effect with a drawback that can be mitigated and therefore justified. It's a shitty Hymn to Tourach and easily the worst of a dozen or so variants. If your opponent doesn't see through your cunning ploy, they shouldn't even qualify as players at that point. They're basically cardboard cut-outs that are posed across the table.

Oh, for Pete's sake. 1B to make the opponent discard two cards is fine. You dont need clever tricks. If you want Hymns 5 - 8, this is a good card.

You can't build around your opponent bouncing it back, because that's stupid. But, you should have some way to discourage your opponent from doing that, that otherwise works with your deck. I'm talking decent cards like Bloodghast and Wilf Leaf, not garbagepiles like Tactics or Dodecapod. And NO MEGRIM EFFECTS WHATS WRONG WITH YOU.

[FoolofaTook]

I think it has to be Dredge mechanics to make it work. If you want a spell that can let you discard 4 cards OR discard 2 and then get cast at the opponent in an emergency where you'd kind of like them to send it back at you afterwards then Chain of Smog is a decent option. It's too slow unless you somehow accelerate, which Dredge is not good at doing, but it does then have real utility because your hand is what you're planning to target with it and everything else is a bonus.

I can't see how you'd accelerate it reasonably in a Dredge style list but "discard the 2 cards I want and then make the opponent discard 2 also" sounds like it might have applications in some of the matchups dredge hates.

Just realized it might have some Storm possibilities also. Is it whatever amount of free storm you want if you keep targeting yourself with LED's out and something nasty on top of the pile with a top out?